Cashman: There is no trade market
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- June
- 16
Just spoke to Brian Cashman. If you’re expecting C.C. Sabathia in the Bronx any time soon, don’t hold your breath.
“There is no trade market at the moment,” he said. “I’m not optimistic that something can get done on that front. We have to try and plug this gap internally and that’s not going to be easy.”
Cashman said “there is a window” for Wang to pitch again this season but that it would not be until September.
“Based on what we knew yesterday, we were bracing ourselves for something bad and it’s bad,” he said. “He’s not going to be able to do anything for six weeks.”
You can expect Dan Giese to start against the Reds on Saturday. The Yankees have no plans to rush Dan McCutchen to the majors and they want Ian Kennedy to get at least two starts in the minors before he is activated off the disabled list.
“We lost A-Rod and Posada at the same time and we moved forward,” Cashman said. “A few years ago it was Sheffield and Matsui on the corners. We had Erick Almonte playing shortstop when Derek Jeter hurt his shoulder.”
But replacing a starting pitcher, Cashman admitted, is a more difficult problem.
“The higher up you go in the rotation, the more difficult it becomes,” he said. “You can’t just replace a pitcher like Chien-Ming Wang.”
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on Monday, June 16th, 2008 at 4:54 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Man, this sucks. IPK, let’s see what you’re made of.
I really hope Giese pitches well enough to keep Igawa in Scranton…
There you go, this is exactly what I was saying earlier in the day. Shapiro isn’t trading Sabathia this early in the season. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a move mid to late july though.
Thank God Joba moved to the rotation. Where would this team be without that option?? So who’s gonna be the 08 version of Aaron Small??
I really hoped that Igawa had thrown his last pitch as a Yankee.
Daaaaaaaaaaaan Geise? C’MOOOOOOON DOWN!
Throw Geise in there until Kennedy comes back and hope to god that he can get his crap together on the mound. If not, it will be closer to the trade deadline, and more teams will be selling.
Also, I bet Cashman talked about the trade market being empty in order to put the emphasis on filling needs from within. That way, it lowers the Yankees’ “panic factor” if he does indeed look towards possible trades.
If he had said “WE REALLY NEED A TRADE RIGHT NOW..I JUST HOPE SOME TEAM WILL HELP US OUT”, you can bet that we would have lost the farm.
Smart words from cashman.
It’s going to be a bumpy ride, but you never know what might happen. The Yankees lost Cone for months in ‘96, and you know how that ended.
Anything’s possible.
if ipk still can’t figure it out, i would give horne a shot if he can regain his form from last year
Exactly what I would expect Cashman to say.
Meanwhile he’s only the phone with a dozen GM’s right now trying to make a trade.
Aaron Cook anyone?
he’s on the phone
They’ll make Giese the long guy.
Cashman will shove Igawa down our throats for a month at least. He has to. He signed him to that awful contract. Probably the worst free agent contract in baseball history. How can it not be? 46 million for a AAA pitcher? Even Pavano’s deal is better than that.
For him to come out and say there is no trade market just further reinforces in me the feeling that he is a piss poor GM.
You don’t come out and say that. Keep it to yourself, idiot. Work the phones. See what you can shake up.
Don’t less than 24 hours after losing your ace come out and make that kind of proclamation.
I really don’t like him and I don’t care if he leaves. As long as Oppenheimer is there to run good drafts, we need a GM who is less a scared little brat than Cashman.
Here’s what he should have said today, “We’ll look internally for the short term and see what pops up on the trade market over the coming weeks.”
That’s a lot easier to stomach as a fan that “there is no trade market”.
Really? You think if Theo needed a piece right now he couldn’t go out and get it?
Only our boy wonder publicly quits before really trying.
Jerk.
When Igawa gets booed out of town again and Karstens averages 2.1 innings per start, I hope Cashman gets reamed.
I hope to GOD that it is NOT Igawa pitching on Saturday as it will be my first ever trip to Yankee Stadium
I was anxious to see Wang pitch but o well…I never want to see Igawa pitch in a Yankee uniform again
Hopefully Kennedy can put himself together as he rehabs and have a fresher start than he has shown so far this year when he returns. Hughes is due back in August, right?
In the meantime, good luck to Giese!
G. Love: What Cashman says and what he does are not necessarily the same thing.
...yet. (you forgot the last word)
Have faith in the team.
-Joba
-Mussina
-Pettitte
-Rasner
-et al.
No worry, beef curry.
No panic, mechanic.
Something will get done. We don’t know the machinations of the front office. They’re always working on something.
this is the same cashman that said that crosby will play center. he is playing the market
i love how all those who 100% supported cashman’s plan to go into this year with two rookies in the rotation are now scrambling to come up with more brilliant ideas. as if the first idea wasn’t bad enough.
this isn’t bad luck. this is having a weak back up plan from the get go.
this is falling in love with a belief system about younger and cheaper that has no basis in reality. the time to have made the rotation deeper was in the winter when there were moves to be made.
cashman will do what he’s always done. he’s likely going to spend george’s money to try to save his butt. that’s always the real back up plan.
what he ought to do is resign or play out his plan and live or die by it.
SHOT # 3 !
Seriously, why not just pick up Ponson? What do the Yankees have to lose? They’d only have to pay him the league minimum, right?
G. Love
Any chance Cash could be SAYING there’s no market so as to not sound quite as desperate as he surely is? Maybe?
Rebecca,
I know. I’m just upset. I don’t like the public face he and Girardi show to us these days.
It’s a lot like the Patriots and the way they handle information.
I’d rather the team be straight up and honest instead of trying to misdirect constantly.
We’re not stupid and I don’t like them treating the fans and the media for that matter like we are. I think all it does is ask for trouble.
I’m sure we’ll see Dan Giese for a few starts at least until they can get something done
This isn’t the end of the world. They should fill with internal options or maybe someone on the free agent market. It’s not like they lost a postseason ace. I’m sure they can find someone to put up CMW’s postseason numbers (1-3 7.58 19IP 28H 16ER). No need to sell the farm for a sabathia.
I have a suggestion.
Why dont the Yankees ask Joba to round up the Winnebagos and have them do a rain dance on days Wang would pitch.
Problem solved.
“It’s going to be a bumpy ride, but you never know what might happen. The Yankees lost Cone for months in ‘96, and you know how that ended.
Anything’s possible.”
Right on. “We play today, we win today, dat’s it!”
Any chance Cash could be SAYING there’s no market so as to not sound quite as desperate as he surely is? Maybe?
Did you really just say this ? If there is one thing we know about Cashman is he doesn’t make panic moves during the season.
G.Love: Not sure what your rant was about, but I’m pretty sure that Brian Cashman is widely recognized as being a really good GM. Despite some bad signings (Pavano and Igawa), there are plenty of good things he’s done (i.e. Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon that one year, trading for Bobby Abreu for 30 cents on the dollar, etc). So while you may hate having Cashman as the Yankees GM, your claims that he’s one of the worst GM’s in the league is not really correct because there are tons of teams that would jump at the opportunity to sign him if Hank doesn’t sign him to a contract extension.
RayMag, I brought up Aaron Cook in the last thread. He’d cost considerably less than the sabathia, Bedard, or Harden types. Of course, the first thing you’ll hear is the NL West pitcher thing, but, he’s doing quite well pitching in Colorado.
raymagnetic:
Aaron Cook was my first idea when this injury happened yesterday, unfortunately it appears (per Cot’s) Colo. gave him an extension and he is signed through 2011, I think. In light of that I think I might prefer Kevin Millwood. We’d also be stuck with him for another year or 2, but not through 2011.
Cashman is not going to make a trade until after the all-star break. Its pretty obvious he is already doing damage control. The rest of the league knows the Yankees will make a trade for a starting pitcher. Cashman is going to do everything in his power to make other teams believe that the Yanks don’t need to make a trade. He is doing this so that when he does make a trade he won’t be negotiating from as weak a position.
We will see some combination of Giese, McCutchen, Karstens, Igawa and Kennedy until after the all-star break. Hopefully one of those guys steps up because if they all bomb Cashman will have no leverage in trade talks. I guarantee the Yankees will trade for a starter by the trade deadline.
G. Love: I know, and at the same time, they have to do it like this, because the fans are already on them for evey single move. They’d be so bombarded that they’d never be able to get anything done.
Cashman is just posturing. CC and Tex will be in the Bronx by the end of the month….
This is from a jason stark column from june 13th on AAron Cook.
Cook-off dept.: While O’Dowd declined to comment about Holliday or any other of the Rockies’ specific, prospective trade plans, he did shoot down last week’s Rumblings note that Aaron Cook could be available. “We’re not doing anything with Cookie,” the GM said flatly.
There isn’t a trade market but there will be soon.Come July the Padres will be worse and the Mariners are basically done.Cashman will trade for a pitchers thats certain because Wang is out for bascially the whole season.
If you think you believe what Cashman is saying then he must be insane.He thinks Fransworth can be a set-up man and he said Today Kei Igawa is a choice to come up because he’s pitching like the other overrated pitchers in Scranton pretty good.
Sure.That will make the rumors go away.He needs to make a trade.
Cashman is just posturing. CC and Tex will be in the Bronx by the end of the month….
Highly doubt it. This ain’t the old regime anymore.
pretty harsh on cashman… i think he’s done a decent job as gm
what else was the team supposed to do coming into the seaason? hughes and kennedy were ready to start in the majors, chamerlain was ready to start in july, and there were good pitchers waiting in aaa.
other teams have to put up with awful #5 starters, and maybe awful #4’s. the whole world knows about our bad starts because we’re the yankees.
season isn’t over yet.
With Kennedy coming back soon, Joba now in the rotation, Pettitte doing well enough, Mussina re-invented and Hughes coming back next month, I think it would be hasty to pull the trigger on a deal this far before the trade deadline. That could be a good starting five if the kids live up to reasonable expectations.
Sure, Hughes & Kennedy didn’t do their part in April but we’ll be able to get a read on where each guy is soon enough.
Basically I’m all for sitting tight for a few weeks to see how Joba & Kennedy hold up. After only a few times through the rotation we should know more.
Just for sake of argument, let’s say for 4 turns through the rotation. Wang would probably have won 3 of his 4 turns. If his ‘replacement’ wins 2 of the 4 turns, we’ve only lost 1 game over the season. I’d sacrifice that 1 game difference (even if it as 2) not to make a stupid long-term move in desperation. And the trade deadline would still be ahead of us.
In the meantime of course it’s a good idea to do the research & groundwork for a good CC deal. But make only a GOOD deal, not a desperate one, and only if needed. Mr CC can be acquired for money and prospects this year, but he can probably be acquired for only money next year.
Further, sitting tight for a few turns would allow us to see if making a move for a slightly lesser pitcher such as Wolf (for lesser prospects) might be the safer/wiser move than unloading the farm for CC considering he’ll be a free agent this winter.
“i love how all those who 100% supported cashman’s plan to go into this year with two rookies in the rotation are now scrambling to come up with more brilliant ideas. as if the first idea wasn’t bad enough.”
Let’s see what Cashman has managed to do this season.
Rookie Pitcher A gets injured – Rookie pitcher A is replaced by Darrell Rasner from the minor league system who pitches great for peanuts.
Rookie Pitcher B gets injured, takes a while but Rookie pitcher B is replaced by Rookie Pitcher C who looks like the real deal.
So let’s see we have two injuries and two back up plans that have seemingly worked thus far.
Now we have Veteran Pitcher A who is injured, Cashman is again saying he will look internally for a solution.
G. Love and Randy continue to berate Cashman for being an idiot and yet they don’t see how 2 back up plans that Cashman had up his sleeve.
Let’s see other moves made by Brian Dunceman.
Relief pitcher A is injured. Relief pitcher A (Brian Bruney) is replaced in the rotation by Minor League relief pitcher A (Edwar Ramirez) who pitches excellently by the way.
Relief pitcher B is injured (Albaladejo), Relief Pitcher B is replaced by Rookie Relief Pitcher A (Jose Veras) who also pitches excellently.
So let’s see that’s 4 injuries to pitcher’s and the Yankees have not had to trade for a pitcher yet. Amazingly the replacement have pitched better than the incumbents.
I don’t think Cashman is perfect, but G. Love and Randy you two really need to respect his gangster with some of the moves he made this year. His backup plans have been great thus far.
Here’s hoping Hughes can get back by August 1st and pitch WELL. If IPK can keep his pitch count down and help the team through July, I think things will work out just fine. The problem is the rest of the month of June. At least Joba is on his own now.
“According to ESPN’s Peter Gammons, the Los Angeles Dodgers had internal discussions about trying to deal Brad Penny for Yankees’ second baseman Robinson Cano, but recent shoulder problems have likely rendered Penny untradeable.”
Cashman wouldn’t consider this deal, I hope.
GreenBeret/BBB,
Sorry to piggyback on you guys’ ideal. I agree with you though and think it might be worth a look.
“i love how all those who 100% supported cashman’s plan to go into this year with two rookies in the rotation are now scrambling to come up with more brilliant ideas. as if the first idea wasn’t bad enough.”
No, a “brilliant idea” is having a broken down old nag like Kevin Brown pitch Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS.
Want a few more “brilliant ideas” that support acquiring “veteran” pitchers? How about Randy against the Angels in 2005 ALDS? Or perhaps you preferred Wright AND Randy against the 2006 Tigers and their ROOKIE pitcher Verlander?
Clueless.
The front office (Cashman, et al) are under no obligation to tell us all the details of how they’re dealing with a situation, positive or negative. Especially if telling all the minutia and all the thinking processes weakens their position.
Cashman NEVER tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I never expect him to. Frankly, why should he?
He did not rule out a trade; he said the trade market “has not revealed itself yet” because it’s too early in the season. That’s the known market. One never knows what they are willing to wheel and deal; but you can’t sell the future to treat a temporary condition in the present.
Let’s see how things go before we decide the season is done or that Brian Cashman has no brains. He sounded pretty reasoned to me; he’s a rational guy and whether you like every move he makes, none of the moves he makes, or a little of each, no one can say that man doesn’t think everything through and try to make the best decisions at a given moment with the given set of circumstances.
G. Love,
Soon after calling Cano for being a lazy imbecile who’s too stupid to understand that he has to play well to have a career and doesn’t care about winning, you call Cashman an “idiot” and “jerk” because he said there’s no trade market. This is great stuff from the poor man’s SJ44.
You apparently believe that Cashman’s comment means he will sit on his hands for the rest of the season, even if a great opportunity becomes available. Since you must have only started following the Yankees this year, you should be aware that in the past several seasons, Cashman has pulled off blockbuster trades and acquisitions that came as a complete surprise to the fans and media alike. Some of these players, whom you may have heard of, include ARod, Abreu, and Clemens.
You are also possessed of a bizarre confidence that Cashman will take Wang’s injury as an opportunity to force Igawa into the rotation. You seem to ignore the fact that Cashman has had numerous opportunities to bring up Igawa but has never done so. Most recently he has gone with Rasner and Giese rather than Igawa. He has also moved Joba into the rotation rather than leave him in the pen and bring up Igawa.
Just like your theories on Cano, your portrayal of Cashman as a GM obsessed with getting starts from one of his big FA acquisitions is not supported by any evidence at all.
I’m not even going to touch your laughable comment about Igawa being the worst FA deal in history except to say you should look up Barry Zito’s deal. And that’s just for recently-signed pitchers.
Sidney Ponson is available again…lol
“This is from a jason stark column from june 13th on AAron Cook.
Cook-off dept.: While O’Dowd declined to comment about Holliday or any other of the Rockies’ specific, prospective trade plans, he did shoot down last week’s Rumblings note that Aaron Cook could be available. “We’re not doing anything with Cookie,†the GM said flatly.”
Doh! Although I believe anybody can be had at the right price.
penny?
5.9 era, 1.6 whip, .304 baa, 57k/36bb
lol
I would love to see Geise get it done. It makes me sick that Cashman just told Mike and the Mad Dog that Igawa is the 2nd option. Calling Freddy Garcia?
Okay, here’s the deal, it sounds like our farm is loaded with right handed arms, and we need left handed arms. Sabathia would have been the ideal candidate, but I suppose he’s off the table – maybe? Anyway, I like the ideas floated around: Harang, Cook, Lowe (my favorite for the above reasons), Peavey, etc.
Giving up a few of our surplus arms shouldn’t hurt our future, but I hesitate on our quality position players, i.e. Ajax, Gardner, Tabata, and others. Sabathia, or any other top of the order starter will mean having to give up one or more of those guys, and I’m not for that. We all know getting a front line starter is no guarantee of anything.
Wang is gone for the season, as SJ44 rightly said, ok, then let’s get one of these less expensive guys for the rest of the season and see if we can compete for a title. If we fail, at least we didn’t give up all our good young players for a hope and a prayer.
Cashman owes us for not getting Santana, he has to get Sabathia he has no choice I hate how he acts like there is nothing he can do the farm is bursting with talent and the Yanks are losing 80 million in payroll after this season I hate how the Yanks like to play the little orphan annie roll they are not the Twins or A’s they can afford anyone. I cant wait to see the quotes from Hank on the 4th of July when the Yanks are 15 games out with Giese and Rasner rounding out the rotation.
“His backup plans have been great thus far.”
And don’t forget that one of his higher-end backup plans missed a bunch of time. Horne may have gotten to the bigs already if he hadn’t been hurt. And another of his probably-league-average backup plans (Karstens) got hurt too.
I mean, he started the season with
Wang
Pettitte
Moose
Hughes
Kennedy
Horne
Rasner
Karstens
Igawa
with the plan that, if any one guy went down, the depth could hold us over until Joba moved into the rotation. And that’s just the AAA depth. But THREE of the original starting five are on the DL right now. That has nothing to do with rookie status. People are lambasting Cash for maybe not having enough depth to make up for losing THREE of his original starting five? Seriously?
Drew he can’t be serious about Igawa-san I’ll hurt him, I’m very serious about that I can run just as fast a Igawa too so catching him a swinging a bat at his leg will not be too difficult
I’m calling smoke screen I think Cutch, Horne, Aceves or Marquez will be the next call up.
gardner is not indispensable
let’s wait until the trade deadline to see what we have and what’s out there
The Yanks have 27 pitchers on the 40-man roster, and right now 10 of them are on the DL(I’m including Chase Wright). The fact that they still have options left for replacing Wang internally is really quite amazing.
If my sentence didn’t make sense it was because of the Bronson Arroyo drinking game.
I wonder if Cashman want’s to trade the current Yankees team – besides Hughes, Chamberlain, Melky, and Kennedy – and just call up the entire Triple A team. He seems to have man crushes on all of these prospects that he won’t trade.
I wonder if Cashman want’s to trade the current Yankees team – besides Hughes, Chamberlain, Melky, and Kennedy – and just call up the entire Triple A team. He seems to have man crushes on all of these prospects that he won’t trade.
Al from BK,
You might just embody the kind of fan that makes so many people hate the Yankees. Little Orphan Annie? We just gave ARod a $300 million contract.
Oy Vey! Who has smelling salts, I am about to pass out!
G.Love: I hear ya.. I am feeling the same way right now.. even if I am dating Cashman’s nanny.
Raymagnetic thansk for your comments..
Veras and Edwar look like they have a chance.
sounds like they have more good pen arms coming.. still hope they get rid of Kyle and Latroy..
Igawa will not be shoved down out throats he may get a start and if he gets bobed that will be it..
I personally would like to see horne at least he has chance of succeeding.. Karstens stinks I already know that….
“It makes me sick that Cashman just told Mike and the Mad Dog that Igawa is the 2nd option.”
I was driving when I heard that and almost crashed my car.
If it’s Igawa..I say we start the “Hell no Igawa” protest in Times Square and march our way to Yankees Stadium. My offer to providing the pitchforks still stands. Maybe Peter/lohud can provide the torches?
Friday a good date for everyone?
Cashman owes us something for not getting Santana? What kind of thinking is that? Cashman doesn’t owe us anything.
Al from BK
Cashman doest ‘owe’ any of us dick.
Especially the people who see it like you do.
Oh, and the owner of the Twins? Yeah, he’s a billionaire. He can afford to spend more on his team, he just chooses not to.
A lot could change between now and the trade deadline. The trade market will heat up. The Yankees may do nothing, but Cashman’s statements today mean little.
“Raymagnetic thansk for your comments..”
No problem. Just trying to keep a level head over here.
“man crushes on all of these prospects” ?
complaints about us keeping our prospects ?
there aren’t that many gm’s, if any, out there that would have traded phil hughes… i still wouldn’t want him to be traded
if indians ask for hughes + 2 aaa players for cc, i would have to say no thanks, even if we’re able to sign him long term – i still believe in him
Cashman on WFAN:
Giese, Igawa, Karstens are all options.
Oy vey.
“G. Love and Randy continue to berate Cashman for being an idiot and yet they don’t see how 2 back up plans that Cashman had up his sleeve.”
the only thing cashman has up his sleeve is a really short arm.
from previous thread
Solution to the Wang injury.
Treat every start that Wang was going to do like an all-star game. Bring up Meloncon,Robertson,Patterson,Cox and whoever else i missed. Have them go 1 or 2 innings in that game till we get it to MO.
PROBLEM SOLVED.
Use our strengths to cover our weakness.
SA –
Maybe Cashman is just having fun with M&M by saying Iggy’s any one of the options.
If I was him and I was talking to them, I’d tell them whatever BS gets them most revved up.
So Cano gets a couple of hits this weekend and he’s back?
Let’s see about that.
I’d still trade him for CC in a heartbeat.
As for Cashman, the only trades he makes are one’s where we get an all star making or looking for big money and we send cash to the other team and a couple of warm bodies.
And please, his plan B’s this year are completely shift on the fly. If Rasner implodes, he’s not the genius some of us are giving him credit for.
His off season plan was HORRIBLE this year. All of us in the pre-season were counting on either Wang or Pettitte to hit the DL at some point this year.
Obviously what happened is a worst case scenario with Wang, but he could have constructed this team in the off season to whether this kind of stuff.
We’re talking about Igawa again people. That’s his backup plan right now?
You feel all warm and fuzzy about that?
If you do, please slap yourself in the face really hard and then slam your face into the wall a few times.
I’ve been a fan of this team my whole life. My family has had the same seats since the 80’s. Maybe because I spend hard earned money on the team, I have a different set of priorities compared to some of you who like to look at stats and projections on paper vs. watching the big league team win at the major league level.
Either way, Cashman could have delivered his message a lot of different ways today and instead it came off in a way to piss people off who think his job is to go out and find solutions.
That’s what I think his job is. To me, it seems, he’s gunshy because of his own bad decisions in the past few years when it comes to other teams players.
I’d rather my GM be fearless and realize you win some trades and you lose some, than try to control the process the way it seems he’s trying to.
If every top contender in the league goes after CC, we won’t get him because our GM isn’t fearless. He’s terrified some of these kids are going to be good for someone else.
Meanwhile we have 20 RH pitching prospects who all have similar stuff in the system.
They all can’t make the major league club, can they?
Cox is on the DL.
What about Alan Horne? He seems to be the forgotten man. He’s made a few starts in Scranton since the injury, and if Giese doesn’t pan out after a start or two, why not look to him. If the Yankees are contending seriously around the end of July then they can go after Sabathia or … whoever ends up being available in a few months. It’s not like the Yankees don’t have options with Giese/Horne/Karstens/McCutchen/Kennedy and then Hughes in August. Some people need a reality check here. This isn’t 1996-2003, and the Yankees are not even the best team in their division (possibly not even second best). Just making the playoffs this year would be an accomplishment. No need to mortgage the future for a guy who still won’t be enough to get you out of the first round in the playoffs, unless the yankees go on a lucky hot streak such as the Rockies did last year.
Cashman has a man crush on every one of the guys in the minors its ridiculous. All of these guys will not be All-stars I cant stand this logic if you can get C.C. even if its pricey you gotta do it or come forward publicly call all the guys on the active roster into the clubhouse and say “Guys we have given up on 08 and we have given up on you. This team is no longer about this year its about next year, its not even about you guys its about Austin Jackson, Dellin Betances, Andy Brackman, Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Jesus Montero, Jose Tabata, Brett Gardner” Thats essentially what they are saying and if they wanna do it they should step up and say it to the players faces.
I hope so ANSKY..maybe Cashman was trying to punk em.
But just in case..Igawa protest…Friday..9am
Be there..or be square..
I wonder if we need a permit…
This is all wrong, we are going about this backwards. I thought trades are for making your team better.. and not trading is because you have a better team without the trade..
well cash blew the santana deal, and now he is about to blow the cc deal too!
Last year I remember vividly a strong 75 % out of 100 % wanted Joba traded for Eric Gagne and Mark Teixiera, Don’t say no I was reading comments board to board. So people bi….n about keeping the prospects. Tough.
well cash blew the santana deal, and now he is about to blow the cc deal too!
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !
“Cashman owes us for not getting Santana,”
Don’t speak for me. “Us” didn’t want Santana.
You don’t represent “us.”
Some might see Wang being out as a horribly bad thing, but I see it as a chance to see what our kids can do. These moments are what farm systems are for. You can’t just trade every time someone gets injured. Take it easy!
G.Love: Keep it coming man good stuff!
Wake these sleepy fans up and more importantly let it out.. don’t worry, everyone here crucifies you if you don’t agree with the masses.. even if they are all stupid and blind.
“Meanwhile we have 20 RH pitching prospects who all have similar stuff in the system. ”
HAHA, and why is that? It’s like holding on to old lottery tickets even though the drawing was over a month ago!
Oh and at least Barry Zito can pitch actual innings in the major leagues.
46 million for a minor leaguer is the worst all time deal in history. End of story.
Bullpen arms were the hot commodity on the free agent market in the offseason. Mayve Roberston would have value? He has been lights out and hasn’t had TJS so nothing besides LaTroy is holding him back. I guess Spring Training did mean sh*t and was a sign of things to coume.
who was counting on wang or pettitte to land on the DL ?
wang pitched 30+ games the 2 previous years and the year before was his 1st year
pettitte has pitched 30+ games his entire career since 1995, except for ‘02 and ‘04 – that’s 12 of 14 years
pretty bold claim there
NOBODY in the minors is even close to Joba please dont even talk like that. It is dangerously arrogant to think that every prospect in your system is Jay Bruce or Joba Chamberlain.
Okay, listen, Calling Peter Abraham!!! Hey, Peter, are you out there…knock…knock…knock…I really would like to know what the Dodgers would take for Derrick Lowe. You are in touch with what goes on around baseball, is he a good fit, and what would it take to get the deal done?
The Yankees have weathered worse than this.
It sucks, to be sure, but unlike A-Rod and Posada, Wang doesn’t play every day.
As bad as things are, they could be a lot worse. Joba could still be a reliever with Giese in the minonrs. Mussina could be pitching like he did last August. Pettitte could have opted not to come back.
Look, we’re not the only ones dealing with decimating injuries. The Red Sox lost Ortiz, and there’s no saying if JD Drew can keep up his production the entire season. The tigers are only just about to get Rodney back, and the Indians just lost their best hitter in Victor Martinez.
That the Yankees have the ability to solve the problem from within even with Pavano, Igawa, etc… speaks a lot about the resources of this team.
“He seems to have man crushes on all of these prospects that he won’t trade.”
People who think like this…what is it that you want him to be saying? “I will give up ANYTHING for a pitcher who can help us in the bigs right now!”
Seriously? Look at Santana…the guy has already lost 3-4 MPH off his fastball. And you wish Cash had traded the farm for him and given him a 7 year deal? What is wrong with you people? CC is a different case, that should be taken on its own merits. We’ll have to see what the market is for him before we can make any rational conclusions. You want Cash to trade for him right now? HOW? The Indians ARE NOT READY TO MAKE A TRADE! So, what should he do? Offer Cano, Hughes, Horne, Jackson and Montero to anyone who will do a deal right now?
” G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm”
Great post. You’re right about Cashman in so many ways. He had no backup plan for Hughes and Kennedy this year. We didn’t even investigate someone like Colon if one or both of them failed.
Cashman is the master of the salary dump trade because of the financial power of the Yankees. The ARod and Abreu trades were both salary dumps. No other team besides the Yankees could have taken on 30M for Abreu and Lidle. The ARod trade as good as it was to get rid of Soriano and get something better in return, was still a huge salary dump by the Rangers.
the two players who I think could compete and I would approve of seriously no joke
David Wells
Derek Lowe
For some reason the following keeps getting thrown off, I will try again:
Calling Peter Abraham!!! Hey, Peter, are you out there…knock…knock…knock…I really would like to know what the Dodgers would take for Derrick Lowe. You are in touch with what goes on around baseball, is he a good fit, and what would it take to get the deal done?
I really would like to know, seriously.
Standing pat and not making a move=Damon Oppenheimer GM in 09.
Cashman didn’t say Igawa was the second choice, only that right now he was the #2 healthy minor league pitcher. Giese will get the Friday start, which should give the Yanks an additional 10 days or so to evaluate the recovery and or effectiveness of pitchers like McCutchen, Karstens, Horne and a couple of others. Don’t be surprised if Jason Jones or Stephen White get starts before Igawa.
Who was counting on Pettitte and Wang to make every single start this year?
jason jones never pitched a game above double a in his life. he’s a friend of a co-worker of mine. jason is pretty sure where he stands in the organization.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
eat it fools.. have fun getting to the playoffs now..
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
While he is not perfect, I think the Cashman bashing is out of line. He and Yankee management have undertaken a very difficult 2 pronged business strategy. 1. remain competitive and have a shot at a world series title and 2. get younger, cut payroll and therefore luxury tax. This is the most difficult (crazy perhaps) strategy you can undertake as a GM. Takes Balls, but he has ownership behind him.
I think they are sick of financing the other teams with the luxury tax. You can’t just blame Cash for going with the youth movement as the whole organization is focused on these goals and every decision they make is balanced in this way, like it or not. They are looking a few years down the road as well as for today.
We will just have to be patient and see how the arms from the minors do and also hope that the right trade opportunity presents itself. Cash has made some prudent mid-season moves, and I think we owe him the benefit of the doubt.
I think he has learned from past mistakes, and that is all you can ask.
I would appreciate it if someone would tell me what it would take to get Derrick Lowe? Pete, do you know? If not fine, I would just like to know.
If we would have traded for Johan, then the Wang injury isnt that huge
Derek Lowe sounds good I wonder if the Dodgers will do that.
Steven White? They better stretch him out:) He has been banished to the pen.
raymagnetic-
the simple smart thing to have done in the past off season was to add a veteran #3 starter instead of going with two rookies with very little track record in the rotation. then there would have been some depth to the pitching staff.
cashman chose not to do that. well he was wrong.
i would now very much like to see cashman now carry out his younger and cheaper plan and see if it either works or it doesn’t.
the catch is he leaves or is bumped aside if it doesn’t work.
this is a revenue sharing league now. changes in the season don’t come easy. there is no easy way for cashman to buy his way out of this one.
I think the biggest mistake this orginization made was trying to field an all star at every position in the 2000’s. I think some of us have gotten spoiled with it and expect to always counter and injury with an all star. From the looks of things. It looks like Cash and company are turning the page from that direction. We dont need to make a trade for C.C. We have enough offense on this team to have a pitcher that is around the 4 era mark and succeed. When we got Chacon and Small in 06 i believe. We were hit hard with injuries. They werent Peavy or Santana. But they won us games. I expect the same this time around. At the very least we have a deeper system to not panic this time around. This team has shown its resiliancy these last couple years. It wont be any different this year.
“If we would have traded for Johan, then the Wang injury isnt that huge”
Yea, we wouldn’t have Wang then to care about him getting injured
“He had no backup plan for Hughes and Kennedy this year. ”
What do you call Horne, Rasner and Karstens? This is exactly what they were…backup plans for Hughes and Kennedy. Giese as well.
No one wanted to give Colon a chance. The Sox just happened to not have any arms in AAA that really needed to start, so they had a spot for him. It’s worked out great, but he was throwing in the high 80s this winter. This outcome for Colon was not particularly likely.
Everyone needs to calm down. What did you expect Cashman to do? Come out crying and begging someone to trade them a pitcher?
“And please, his plan B’s this year are completely shift on the fly. If Rasner implodes, he’s not the genius some of us are giving him credit for.
His off season plan was HORRIBLE this year. All of us in the pre-season were counting on either Wang or Pettitte to hit the DL at some point this year.”
“Either way, Cashman could have delivered his message a lot of different ways today and instead it came off in a way to piss people off who think his job is to go out and find solutions. ”
I love this. His plan B’s are all shift on the fly even though he started the season with all of those pitchers already in the organization and has made moves accordingly.
Rasner is pitching well now, I guess that doesn’t matter to you. All that matters is what “might” happen with Rasner.
Then you say you believe a GM’s job is to go out and find solutions. Isn’t that “shifting on the fly”? He’s found internal solutions who have done well and that’s somehow not good enough for you.
Incredible, simply incredible!
And I’m sorry but your family’s 20 year season tickets don’t make you somehow a better fan than one who watches games on TV. That’s really pompous for you to even suggest such a thing.
“the two players who I think could compete and I would approve of seriously no joke
David Wells
Derek Lowe”
No on Wells. Yes on Lowe. He would be my first choice of the NON ACE/lose the entire farm list.
“the simple smart thing to have done in the past off season was to add a veteran #3 starter ”
And which #3 starters were available, pray tell? How would you have gotten this person without trading a guy like Hughes?
Again…are you intimating that their rookie-hood somehow contributed to their getting injured? Because if they weren’t injured, it’s pretty likely that, given Horne, Rasner, and Joba’s move to the rotation we’d be fine. Hughes, especially, is far too talented to keep being so hideously bad.
from the last post.
“Wang’s injury is the nail in the coffin for the “keep Joba in the pen†argument.â€
Yeah. But the “we wouldnt have this problem if Santana was a Yank†is probably going to flare up.
Sooner than i thought.
“the simple smart thing to have done in the past off season was to add a veteran #3 starter instead of going with two rookies with very little track record in the rotation. then there would have been some depth to the pitching staff.
cashman chose not to do that. well he was wrong.”
No, the simple thing would have been to have Rasner in the organization to contribute and have Chamberlain in the organization to contribute down the road.
Why throw away 8mil on a Livan Hernandez type when Rasner can do similarly or better for peanuts.
i think is harder to watch games on t.v anybody can pay and go to the games it takes dedication to watch day in and day out….trust me
Anyway, Sabathia’s case is where if you can trade a few lesser prospects for him and sign him to a ‘reasonable’ extension, it’s something to look into. Nothing I’d sell the farm for, though. In the mean time, go for internal solutions and observe if the offense can keep things up. If the offense goes back to the grave, then this is all moot anyway.
I guess some of these people would have felt it was better if Cashman had said, “Hey Yankee fans! Guess what? I’m going to trade for C.C. Sabathia ASAP! Yup, the Indians don’t even know it. Don’t worry though. I’ll get rid of absolutely everything that they want if it means we get him…even if it’s just a 2-month rental.”
I’d rather that the Yanks try to solve it internally before they seek a trade.
Unfortunately, I really think that this injury is going to show just how valuable and how good Wang really is. Some how, he never gets the credit he deserves. Sad that its going to take an injury like this to show Yankee fans his worth.
Despite this, I’m still optimistic about the playoffs. First, our offense is finally clicking and is now as good or better than anyone else’s in MLB. Second, we have what I would say equals 3 above average starters. Not to many teams even have 2 good starters. Pettitte (always a gamer in the second half), Moose (having a reemergence this year) and Joba (training wheels are now off and he has looked like the real deal). Third, the bullpen (fingers crossed) might finally be coming around. I’m sure that the offense will do its part. The two critical questions going forward I think are whether or not Moose can have a comparable second half and whether or not our 4th and 5th starters can do enough to give the offense a chance to win the game. I think we have enough to get to October though.
Well I just think wells would be a fun guy, but can he get off the couch?
For Derek Lowe, I don’t think the price would be high, but I would think that like Marquez and Betances would get the deal done, that might be a little cheap though, could be more.
“But THREE of the original starting five are on the DL right now. That has nothing to do with rookie status”
rookie pitchers are fragile . they break easy. that’s why there are innings limits.
building a staff around rookies is a risky proposition.
that was the achilles heel of cashman’s plan right from the beginning.
Why can’t some of you think a little bit before you post.
How can Cashman “blow” the CC deal if its not even known CC is available?
Also, what do you want him to say 3 hours after he finds out Wang is done for most, if not all of the season?
“We have to do ANYTHING to get a starter”?
He also said Bubba Crosby was going to be the starting CF in 2006. How did that work out?
He’s going to say the party line. Which is, find solutions from within right now. Its all he can do at the present time.
He’s not going to tell Mike and the Mad Dog or anybody else publicly what he will do.
He’s right, there is no trade market right now. There will be in July and when it forms, he will be aggressive.
If you really believe he’s going to stay from within the rest of the season, you are very naive about the workings of baseball.
“I think the biggest mistake this orginization made was trying to field an all star at every position in the 2000’s.”
Damn straight! What is really depressing is the fact they could not see (maybe I should say George could not see) that the teams that won 4 World Series championships in 5 years were loaded with guys who were not all-stars. Guys who filled a role, guys who hit in the clutch (Chad Curtis, Jimmy Leyritz, Joe Girardi), and guys who would run through a wall to win (Paul O’Neill, Andy Pettit, Tino, Jetes, Bernie, Mo, El DUKE, the list goes on and on). The same crap happened in the 80’s when George decided to bring in all those “All-Stars” and ended up having the longest drought for a pennant or playoff in Yankee history!
Cashman is on the right track, let him do his job.
(for the record, I can’t see Shapiro shopping Sabathia until next month)
the sad thing is, The Indians will keep CC until close to the trade deadline (July 31st) and STILL get just as much in a trade.
The Yankees need CC now, to make apx. 18 starts. Once the bidding for him starts in a month, he’ll only be making maybe 13 starts for whoever trades for him, but that team will still be giving up just as much as if they were to trade for him today and his 18 starts (due to a likely larger trade market).
g.love,take it easy.by cashman saying that it doesn’t hurt their chances with a trade.gm’s aren’t going to say i won’t make a deal because cashman said their was no trade market plus he is right.their is no ace to replace wang unless we give up the farm and that is not an option.you win with a lot of pitchers and get what you can as far as great pitchers when you can get them.i am scared that igawa will get another shot but because they have a good farm system someone will step up.i would trade melky,kennedy and a prospect for sabathia or harden but not montero or brackman.kennedy can be replaced easilly and next year sabathia or harden can be that replacement and gardner for now can replace melky so they would stay the same as a team or get better and next year it would be sabathia,wang,joba,hughes and the yankees will bring back both pettitte and moose for 1 year for less money. cashman is on the right track,this is the time when suprises happen.
Sooner than i thought.
Too true.
Still, guys, if you think the Yankees are done, perhaps you should be watching the Mets. They have Santana and thus all their problems went away, right?
“i think is harder to watch games on t.v anybody can pay and go to the games it takes dedication to watch day in and day out….trust me”
Agreed. It even takes more dedication to watch the game and blog at the same time. Or is that a sickness?
Seriously, who is this vaunted #3 starter that the Yankees should have signed? We could have signed Carlos Silva for $48M over 4 years or Kyle Lohse to a similar deal. Pouring money into those two funds would be well wasted.
We need a big arm, we really do.
If Ian can step up when he returns from the DL (which I doubt) then I will be happy. Trust me, I don’t think Sabathia is the right pitcher for us… but he’s better than Igawa/Karstens/Kennedy have been for us thus far.
It’s pretty clear, from reading the comments on here, why Brian Cashman gets paid to do what he does, and why the folks who think they can do a better job are stuck on Pete’s blog’s comments section.
Of course Sabathia’s a ridiculous idea. It’s yet another example of thinking we’re “one guy away” from righting the ship. You’re never really one guy away and, every time you think you are, something else is bound to happen.
All I can say that there could be much worse positions than having to rely on two excellent veterans like Mike Mussina and Andy Pettitte to rise to the occassion when needed. Our #3 right now ain’t too shabby either…
...besides, isn’t Wang not a REEEEEEAAAL ace, and no better than a #3? if you believe that, then you should have no reason to be freaking out right now, right?
We all just have to be patient and see what happens.
I also know that is gonna be easier said than done..
Padres coming to town..let’s kick their butts
I’m going to reflect back a few seasons when they made the playoffs with a rotation that included:
Aaron Small
Shawn Chacon
Cory Lidle (RIP)
Jaret Wright
We can sit here and cry and whine about Cashman not signing Johan or immediately trading the farm for Sabathia.
Or we can stay optimistic, remember that our offense is pretty good, and they can still pull this out… as unlikely as it may seem. Or, judging by their 2006 rotation, not as unlikely as some are making it.
“rookie pitchers are fragile . they break easy. that’s why there are innings limits.
building a staff around rookies is a risky proposition.
that was the achilles heel of cashman’s plan right from the beginning.”
All pitchers get hurt, rookie or not. It’s a part of the game.
How many backup plans is Cashman supposed to have?
He essentially replaced 4 injured pitchers in the major leagues and all of the replacements have pitched well thus far.
What more do you want from the man? Man alive!
I guess Cashman should also have 2 shortstops, 2 third baseman, 3 left fielders, and 4 catchers available in the minor leagues who are good enough to replace Jeter, Arod, Posada, and Damon.
how about a quantity for quality type deal w/ KC for Greinke?
Gardner (kinda like joey gathright, except better), Robertson (toughest for me to part with, but the royals would love to have a setup/closer combination like robertson-soria and we have 409838203038 bullpen arms), Cutch/Horne (decent upside, near mlb ready, good enough to replace greinke in the royals rotation)
Carmen Angelini (pretty high upside at a premium position for a team clearly looking to build)
Dellin Betances (gotta give to get, and this may be the getter – he could be a future ace)
No team wants to give up a starter like Greinke, but that may be the haul necessary to do so, and it would leave Cano, Hughes, Jackson, Tabata (if they’d rather him than gardner or soemthing, ok), Montero, Brackman, Cole as our remaining high-ceiling guys, and with or without that type of trade, they’d still have been considered our top prospects by most sources.
I heard Cashman’s interview on the fan, when he mentioned the name Kei Igawa as an option, the hair on the back of neck stood up.
*when i say good enough to replace greinke in the rotation, i merely mean good enough to fill out a rotation spot on a weak royals team
G. Love,
I share your perspective on this one and agree with you. Like you, I spend a lot of hard earned cash on the Yankees. Those of us who shell out the dough don’t feel like we’re entitled to anything more or anything less than the Yankees to put out the best team possible. Incuded in that expectation is a plan in case of injuries or failure of young prospects to produce. We’re not “entitled” to win pennants, but we fully expect to compete for them.
No one can anticipate injuries. But when the backup plan includes Kei Igawa, or even Ian Kennedy and his limited AAA experience, it’s hard to say the Yankees were well prepared.
Yes, Jay destro, I’m aware that Jason Jones hasn’t pitched above AA, but, NYY got 10-12 wins out of AA pitchers last year considering Hughes and Kennedy only had 5 starts each in AAA. NYY can mix and match these kids with some of the weaker hitting teams, instead of putting them in against teams like Boston or the Angels and a couple of other big offense teams. Girardi can juggle the rotation a little. If NYY has any more injuries in the rotation, they’ll be pretty well finished, anyway. Having Cano and Jeter step up will cover a lot of pitching sins. Cabrera can do a bit better, also.
“No, the simple thing would have been to have Rasner in the organization to contribute and have Chamberlain in the organization to contribute down the road.”
rasner and joba are great. but the yankees still needed more pitching depth.
cashman didn’t address that in the winter when he could have.
he went too young and too cheap.
and now the yankees are paying for it.
... but they still can get to the wild card because there are no good teams. why are those who support cashman so afraid to play out the hand that cashman asked for? cashman may still come out ok just because he’s created a weak team when everyone else is weak too.
maybe that was his real back up plan to have the best bad team in baseball.
I actually keep checking in on the blog at the game on my iPhone so I do both.
And I never implied I was a better fan than anyone because I have seats. Show me where I said that?
Some idiot on here slammed me claiming I must have just become a fan of the team which is insulting.
As for Rasner, Cashman DFA’d the guy and no other team in baseball took a shot at him. He wasn’t plan B. He was plan Z.
Cashman is lucky Rasner stepped up and contributed because if the real plan B&C Igawa and Karstens, were to be relied on, we’d be 10 games below .500.
You want to say Cashman is great? Go ahead. I have issues with his moves, non moves and the way he built the club this year.
All I wanted to hear out of him today was “we’ll try to plug the hole from within while we try to see what shakes on the trade market”.
Was that unreasonable to ask?
Instead we get, “no market, Igawa and Karstens”.
And I’m crazy for being upset?
Please.
GreenBeret,
Well put. Add that Arod is due for one of those 20 homer months and we could even win games Igawa pitches. O.k maybe not Igawa. But you get what i mean.
patrick that is because the yankees have 30 pitchers in the minors that are as good as colon and cost a lot less.you don’t win by panicking and trading 5 players for a great pitcher and have him break down after 2 years and get stuck paying 18-20 million a year for that pitcher for 3-5 years like zito.how are the mets doing with santanna and no farm system,how about bedard that cost the mariners sherrill,jones and 3 great pitching prospects and now they wan’t to trade bedard.you win with the lincecum’s,joba’s,lesters.hughes,buchholz and the other kids.pitching first mixed with a few stars and hard nose players at the other positions,the farm system,debth like the yankees in the 90’s.
“cashman didn’t address that in the winter when he could have.
he went too young and too cheap.”
Aside from Johan Santana, who should Cashman have signed as a free agent starter this past offseason? As far as Santana, we just don’t know exactly what the offer was except for the rumored Wang, Kennedy, plus a couple good prospects, which I do not blame Cashman for passing on.
Please provide some evidence with your arguments – keeping in mind that hindsight is 20/20… they should have been moves that were fairly obvious at the time but Cashman still passed on them.
We’ve also lost the playoffs with pitchers like Kevin Brown and Jaret Wright starting in pivotal games in the playoffs.
Mike has brought up Arryro again.
The hell is his love with Bronson
“And I’m crazy for being upset?”
Uh, yes.
“I actually keep checking in on the blog at the game on my iPhone so I do both.”
Ill try to get you the number to “Yankeeholic Annonymous” once i check in to it.
G love,
He’s not going to tip his hand publicly. Geez, come on, you are smarter than that.
He’s going to do exactly what you want. He has always done it that way.
There isn’t a trade market in Mid-June for anybody decent. There is if you want to trade Jesus Montero but, I think we can all agree that’s not the way it goes.
Forget about what he says. It means nothing. You have to see what happens in the next few weeks.
They will plug in Giese in the rotation and see if they can steal a couple of performances and go from there.
Its all he can do right now.
Well, I will say this, it will tell us a lot about where this organization is heading in the next month.
Will Cash sacrifice our young players for the “win now” crowd? And, by the way, “win now” is a nice phrase, but it means nothing. All the talent in the world still must go on the field and perform. Let’s be honest, much of the time the team with the most talent is sitting at home in October. It takes more than talent to win.
Will Cash stick with the farm system and look for help from within. I favor this approach, however, I am not opposed to striking a good deal if the right deal comes along.
I didn’t think Damon, or Giambi, or Moose would last past April. What a fool I was! That’s what makes this game great, you never know who will step up (see Aaron Small) and provide the impetus you need to make a run.
I remember in 1965, the Dodgers were fighting for the pennant, and their starting third baseman (I think it was Johnny Werhaus) got injured. They had no one to replace him, so they asked their third base coach, Jim Gilliam, to come out of retirement for just one more season. The Dodgers went on to win the Pennant, and the World Series, with Gilliam hitting a home run in the deciding game 7. You just never know.
S.O.S.,
My wife has told me I’m not allowed to post while I’m at the games anymore. I send her for a pretzel and I pound in a quick post most nights.
Igawa is a ridiculous idea… he had one good “start” when he came on in the first inning and pitched 7 strong… He walks way to many of the other teams players, he goes for strike outs without the capable arsenal to do so, all in all letting him start is asking us to score 10+ runs a game. Giese unless proven otherwise would be a reasonable 5th or 4th starter. He seems to have a plus change and capable of pitching 6+ innings. I have no problem with using him as a stop- gap option… I know this may sound wild but if we can get to late julyish… what about Aceves?
G. Love,
It’s hilarious that you play up your (alleged) decades-long devotion to the team, and yet launch into a passionate argument that ignores much of everything Cashman has done since he got the job and reveals a crazy view of baseball in general. Such as a world where Cashman’s comments about the trade marking have any bearing on what the team will or what do.
“Either way, Cashman could have delivered his message a lot of different ways today and instead it came off in a way to piss people off who think his job is to go out and find solutions.”
Right. He pissed off you and the handful of other people who believe that his comments on the radio are anything more than entertainment.
Apparently, here’s what should have happened.
Cashman: I am a proactive problem-solver who is not overly infatuated with our prospects. I’m ready to make the right deal for a top pitcher.
Later that night …
Shapiro: Hey Brian. I was not going to trade C.C., especially not to the Yankees (after all, you could frequently face us in the playoffs in the years to come), but you sounded so strong in your radio appearance today, I can’t help but offer him to you for a collection of middling prospects and Hughes, even though he’s injured. I am just that much in awe of you.
“That’s what I think his job is. To me, it seems, he’s gunshy because of his own bad decisions in the past few years when it comes to other teams players.”
When has Cashman made a bad decision when it comes to other teams’ players. Cashman has a remarkable track record when it comes to trades.
“I’d rather my GM be fearless and realize you win some trades and you lose some, than try to control the process the way it seems he’s trying to.”
The only trade (or non-trade) I can imagine you are referring to is Santana. We could debate the pros and cons of a Santana trade forever. That non-move alone cannot possibly serve as proof that Cashman is afraid to make trades.
“If every top contender in the league goes after CC, we won’t get him because our GM isn’t fearless. He’s terrified some of these kids are going to be good for someone else.”
No. We won’t get him because Shapiro would prefer to trade his best pitcher to the NL, or failing that, an AL team that is not a perennial playoff contender. Or because another team can offer players that are a better fit for Cleveland. Not because you think Cashman is a big old sissy.
it takes talent to make the play offs. it’s going to be a sad end to yankee stadium. NO PLAYOFFS! thanks all to cashman, lover of prospects.
“What more do you want from the man? Man alive!”
raynagnetic-
this is the yankees we’re talking about.
maybe because i’m in the middle of red sox nation , but watching the red sox win two world series in the last 4 years kind of made me think the yankees would do anything to make sure a third didn’t happen this year.
i’m not happy the cashman didn’t take this year more seriously. it’s like another red sox world championship didn’t happen.
ironically, i’m saying now throw your best younger and cheaper at the other teams , play your butt off, and hope for the best.
“We’ve also lost the playoffs with pitchers like Kevin Brown and Jaret Wright starting in pivotal games in the playoffs.”
Yes. We’ve also lost games that Clemens,Wang and Johnson pitched. Lets get to the playoffs first and then worry about who pitches in those games.
“There is no trade market at the moment,†he said. “I’m not optimistic that something can get done on that front. We have to try and plug this gap internally and that’s not going to be easy.â€
Big surprise there. Congrats to the posters who had this one already figured.
“Will Cash sacrifice our young players for the “win now†crowd?”
As SJ44 eluded to before, especially with Sabathia, why does “win now” exclude them from winning later?
C.C. is only 27 and is almost certainly the only pitcher they’re going to give a significant package for AND are likely to sign long term if they do make a deal.
“Some idiot on here slammed me claiming I must have just become a fan of the team which is insulting.”
That was me. I wrote that because (a) you have no idea what you’re talking about, and (b) I find your comments particularly obnoxious.
SJ,
I know you’re right. I’m just concerned that this “new Cashman” is the real Cashman.
This Cashman who seems wedded to prospects at the risk of the big club.
If he’s posturing, which I hope he is, fine. If he’s serious, I’m nervous.
I just think I’m at a point with Cashman where I don’t know who he is as a GM since he’s changed course. He doesn’t seem to live in the grey anymore—everything seems black and white with him.
Hopefully, my perception is off.
“Anyway, Sabathia’s case is where if you can trade a few lesser prospects for him and sign him to a ‘reasonable’ extension, it’s something to look into.”
My sentiments exactly.
Think of the Pavano deal. 4 years/40 million with just a draft pick surrendered. Relatively speaking, we gave up pocket change to get him. Yet this city rues the day that we did and is eagerly anticipating the day (it’s close folks, just a few more months!) that he’s tossed out the window head first.
I recognize that Sabathia’s a better pitcher than Pavano. To a degree. He’s not Santana, not by a long stretch. But he is a better pitcher and that needs to be factored in. But there’s also the extra risk involved. This guy used to be overweight and lazy. Reportedly, he’s improved his work ethic in the last few years, he’s clearly kept himself in better shape, and his improved performance is a byproduct. But for a player like that, long-term job security could be just the thing that reverts him to old habits. If he has nothing to work hard for, does he go back to being the old CC? That’s to say nothing of how much all the innings he’s logged (admittedly, a lot of them, every season) will impact that heftier bulk of his when he’s getting into his 30’s. Those of you who obsess over Santana’s home run counts and velocity drops … do none of these things concern you?
So what’s a reasonable cost given the risk? Given that there’s a decent chance that this guy could end up being our next Pavano? 4-5 years due to the health concerns with 75-90 million to acknowledge his greater potential? Kennedy, Horne & Tabata? That’s about as far as I’d be willing to go. And that’s not even in the ballpark of what the Indians and CC’s agent will be asking.
To me it’s all about the risk, and there’s too much to justify the costs that will be required. People point out that the high-end prospects aren’t sure things; they could become all-stars, or they could become total failures. In this case, I don’t think the guy we’re looking to acquire is that much more of a certainty. And in his case, failure would cost us a lot more. In five years, we could be looking forward to the day when we can toss
himout the window head first.“S.O.S.,
My wife has told me I’m not allowed to post while I’m at the games anymore. I send her for a pretzel and I pound in a quick post most nights.”
Glove
My wife is the same. I just tell her im hungry and wait till she starts cookin. Youd think we were on one of those porn sites cheating on them or something. Very sad. If you get the number before i do. Please do me the same consideration.
Mike Francesa “Arroyo has been good in 5 of his last 6 starts”
Lets take a look Mike
May 19th 5ip 9 hits 3er 3 walks 3 k’s
May 24th 6 and 1/3rd 7 hits 2 er 1 walk 9k’s
May 28th 6ip 3 hits 1 er 4 walks 6k’s
June 2nd 4 and 1/3rd 10 hits 5 er 2 walks 4k’s
June 7th 4 and 2/3rd 7 hits 4er 2 walks 6k’s
June 12th 6ip 2 hits 0 er 1 walk 4k’s
“This Cashman who seems wedded to prospects at the risk of the big club.”
When the Yanks traded all their prospects for vets, people whined.
Now people are whining that the Yanks are trying to develop from within instead of trading for vets.
I think Cashman knows a little more about building a successful club, a mix of both young guys and vets, than any of us.
So whine on, or suck it up and hope for the best.
SoS27, this year will be like much of last year was, two main starters and three hopes and prayers, and, a lot of offense. Basically, they need to run a patchwork rotation and if anything else happens, it won’t make a difference. This year a third spot is a lot better, although still somewhat still unpredictable at this time.
It’s amazing that some of the posters here aren’t already ML GMs.
Or physicians.
I didn’t whine we traded for David Cone.
I didn’t whine we traded for Justice.
I didn’t whine when we traded for Knoblacuch.
I didn’t whine we traded for Weaver or Randy Johnson.
I did whine when we traded for Kevin Brown though.
I’m just saying, I haven’t whined about us trading one prospect in many years.
I did whine about us passing up Ted Lilly for Kei Igawa however.
“I recognize that Sabathia’s a better pitcher than Pavano. To a degree. He’s not Santana, not by a long stretch.”
To a degree??? He’s light years closer to Santana than he is Pavano. Sabathia would be the Yankees’ best starting pitcher including a healthy Wang.
I think it will be hard to make a deal for any frontline pitcher for at least a few weeks. Teams will want to see if they are indeed in the race, and if not they will want max value, which means close to the deadline frenzy. If the internal options bomb out, maybe they can lean on their major league scouts, whose job it is to find guys undervalued by their current organization. It seems to me this has been a strength of Cashman’s reign etc., Chacon, Small, Cairo.
This is my list of possible guys to target. I am sure many would fail, but most would could cheap and you may catch lightning in a bottle. These are guys struggling with their current MLB team, and again, you could get most for guys like Nacchi and Hilligoss who are likely blocked at the ML level. Here are the names:
Dave Bush
Chris Capuano
Rich Hill
Paul Maholm
Anthony Reyes
Boof Bonser
Jon Lieber
Also, if the price for CC or another top starter is too high, which is likely, how about Ian Snell. He has great stuff and is on the cusp of being a household name.
Caesar
“I think Cashman knows a little more about bui