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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Cashman: There is no trade market

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 16, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Just spoke to Brian Cashman. If you’re expecting C.C. Sabathia in the Bronx any time soon, don’t hold your breath.

“There is no trade market at the moment,” he said. “I’m not optimistic that something can get done on that front. We have to try and plug this gap internally and that’s not going to be easy.”

Cashman said “there is a window” for Wang to pitch again this season but that it would not be until September.

“Based on what we knew yesterday, we were bracing ourselves for something bad and it’s bad,” he said. “He’s not going to be able to do anything for six weeks.”

You can expect Dan Giese to start against the Reds on Saturday. The Yankees have no plans to rush Dan McCutchen to the majors and they want Ian Kennedy to get at least two starts in the minors before he is activated off the disabled list.

“We lost A-Rod and Posada at the same time and we moved forward,” Cashman said. “A few years ago it was Sheffield and Matsui on the corners. We had Erick Almonte playing shortstop when Derek Jeter hurt his shoulder.”

But replacing a starting pitcher, Cashman admitted, is a more difficult problem.

“The higher up you go in the rotation, the more difficult it becomes,” he said. “You can’t just replace a pitcher like Chien-Ming Wang.”

 
 

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325 Responses to “Cashman: There is no trade market”

  1. BoogieDown June 16th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    Man, this sucks. IPK, let’s see what you’re made of.

  2. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 16th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    I really hope Giese pitches well enough to keep Igawa in Scranton…

  3. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    There you go, this is exactly what I was saying earlier in the day. Shapiro isn’t trading Sabathia this early in the season. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a move mid to late july though.

  4. Terry in NH June 16th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    Thank God Joba moved to the rotation. Where would this team be without that option?? So who’s gonna be the 08 version of Aaron Small??

  5. kd June 16th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    I really hoped that Igawa had thrown his last pitch as a Yankee.

  6. Brent (This Damon Guy's For Real, Huh?) June 16th, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    Daaaaaaaaaaaan Geise? C’MOOOOOOON DOWN!

    Throw Geise in there until Kennedy comes back and hope to god that he can get his crap together on the mound. If not, it will be closer to the trade deadline, and more teams will be selling.

    Also, I bet Cashman talked about the trade market being empty in order to put the emphasis on filling needs from within. That way, it lowers the Yankees’ “panic factor” if he does indeed look towards possible trades.

    If he had said “WE REALLY NEED A TRADE RIGHT NOW..I JUST HOPE SOME TEAM WILL HELP US OUT”, you can bet that we would have lost the farm.

    Smart words from cashman.

  7. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 16th, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    It’s going to be a bumpy ride, but you never know what might happen. The Yankees lost Cone for months in ’96, and you know how that ended.

    Anything’s possible.

  8. frankiedue June 16th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    if ipk still can’t figure it out, i would give horne a shot if he can regain his form from last year

  9. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    Exactly what I would expect Cashman to say.

    Meanwhile he’s only the phone with a dozen GM’s right now trying to make a trade.

    Aaron Cook anyone?

  10. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    he’s on the phone

  11. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    They’ll make Giese the long guy.

    Cashman will shove Igawa down our throats for a month at least. He has to. He signed him to that awful contract. Probably the worst free agent contract in baseball history. How can it not be? 46 million for a AAA pitcher? Even Pavano’s deal is better than that.

    For him to come out and say there is no trade market just further reinforces in me the feeling that he is a piss poor GM.

    You don’t come out and say that. Keep it to yourself, idiot. Work the phones. See what you can shake up.

    Don’t less than 24 hours after losing your ace come out and make that kind of proclamation.

    I really don’t like him and I don’t care if he leaves. As long as Oppenheimer is there to run good drafts, we need a GM who is less a scared little brat than Cashman.

    Here’s what he should have said today, “We’ll look internally for the short term and see what pops up on the trade market over the coming weeks.”

    That’s a lot easier to stomach as a fan that “there is no trade market”.

    Really? You think if Theo needed a piece right now he couldn’t go out and get it?

    Only our boy wonder publicly quits before really trying.

    Jerk.

    When Igawa gets booed out of town again and Karstens averages 2.1 innings per start, I hope Cashman gets reamed.

  12. Adam June 16th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    I hope to GOD that it is NOT Igawa pitching on Saturday as it will be my first ever trip to Yankee Stadium :)

    I was anxious to see Wang pitch but o well…I never want to see Igawa pitch in a Yankee uniform again

  13. Steph June 16th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    Hopefully Kennedy can put himself together as he rehabs and have a fresher start than he has shown so far this year when he returns. Hughes is due back in August, right?

    In the meantime, good luck to Giese!

  14. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 16th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    G. Love: What Cashman says and what he does are not necessarily the same thing.

  15. mel June 16th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    …yet. (you forgot the last word)

    Have faith in the team.

    -Joba
    -Mussina
    -Pettitte
    -Rasner
    -et al.

    No worry, beef curry.

    No panic, mechanic.

    Something will get done. We don’t know the machinations of the front office. They’re always working on something.

  16. al arodien June 16th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    this is the same cashman that said that crosby will play center. he is playing the market

  17. randy l June 16th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    i love how all those who 100% supported cashman’s plan to go into this year with two rookies in the rotation are now scrambling to come up with more brilliant ideas. as if the first idea wasn’t bad enough.

    this isn’t bad luck. this is having a weak back up plan from the get go.

    this is falling in love with a belief system about younger and cheaper that has no basis in reality. the time to have made the rotation deeper was in the winter when there were moves to be made.

    cashman will do what he’s always done. he’s likely going to spend george’s money to try to save his butt. that’s always the real back up plan.

    what he ought to do is resign or play out his plan and live or die by it.

  18. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (Jose Tabata Supporter 4 Life !!!!) June 16th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    SHOT # 3 !

  19. csano June 16th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    Seriously, why not just pick up Ponson? What do the Yankees have to lose? They’d only have to pay him the league minimum, right?

  20. Mike June 16th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    G. Love

    Any chance Cash could be SAYING there’s no market so as to not sound quite as desperate as he surely is? Maybe?

  21. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    Rebecca,

    I know. I’m just upset. I don’t like the public face he and Girardi show to us these days.

    It’s a lot like the Patriots and the way they handle information.

    I’d rather the team be straight up and honest instead of trying to misdirect constantly.

    We’re not stupid and I don’t like them treating the fans and the media for that matter like we are. I think all it does is ask for trouble.

  22. Jeter's Future Wife June 16th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    I’m sure we’ll see Dan Giese for a few starts at least until they can get something done

  23. Nigel June 16th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    This isn’t the end of the world. They should fill with internal options or maybe someone on the free agent market. It’s not like they lost a postseason ace. I’m sure they can find someone to put up CMW’s postseason numbers (1-3 7.58 19IP 28H 16ER). No need to sell the farm for a sabathia.

  24. Francis The Praying Mantis June 16th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    I have a suggestion.

    Why dont the Yankees ask Joba to round up the Winnebagos and have them do a rain dance on days Wang would pitch.

    Problem solved.

  25. BBB June 16th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    “It’s going to be a bumpy ride, but you never know what might happen. The Yankees lost Cone for months in ‘96, and you know how that ended.

    Anything’s possible.”

    Right on. “We play today, we win today, dat’s it!”

  26. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (Jose Tabata Supporter 4 Life !!!!) June 16th, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    Any chance Cash could be SAYING there’s no market so as to not sound quite as desperate as he surely is? Maybe?

    Did you really just say this ? If there is one thing we know about Cashman is he doesn’t make panic moves during the season.

  27. #24FTW June 16th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    G.Love: Not sure what your rant was about, but I’m pretty sure that Brian Cashman is widely recognized as being a really good GM. Despite some bad signings (Pavano and Igawa), there are plenty of good things he’s done (i.e. Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon that one year, trading for Bobby Abreu for 30 cents on the dollar, etc). So while you may hate having Cashman as the Yankees GM, your claims that he’s one of the worst GM’s in the league is not really correct because there are tons of teams that would jump at the opportunity to sign him if Hank doesn’t sign him to a contract extension.

  28. GreenBeret7 June 16th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    RayMag, I brought up Aaron Cook in the last thread. He’d cost considerably less than the sabathia, Bedard, or Harden types. Of course, the first thing you’ll hear is the NL West pitcher thing, but, he’s doing quite well pitching in Colorado.

  29. BBB June 16th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    raymagnetic:

    Aaron Cook was my first idea when this injury happened yesterday, unfortunately it appears (per Cot’s) Colo. gave him an extension and he is signed through 2011, I think. In light of that I think I might prefer Kevin Millwood. We’d also be stuck with him for another year or 2, but not through 2011.

  30. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    Cashman is not going to make a trade until after the all-star break. Its pretty obvious he is already doing damage control. The rest of the league knows the Yankees will make a trade for a starting pitcher. Cashman is going to do everything in his power to make other teams believe that the Yanks don’t need to make a trade. He is doing this so that when he does make a trade he won’t be negotiating from as weak a position.

    We will see some combination of Giese, McCutchen, Karstens, Igawa and Kennedy until after the all-star break. Hopefully one of those guys steps up because if they all bomb Cashman will have no leverage in trade talks. I guarantee the Yankees will trade for a starter by the trade deadline.

  31. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 16th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    G. Love: I know, and at the same time, they have to do it like this, because the fans are already on them for evey single move. They’d be so bombarded that they’d never be able to get anything done.

  32. Don Vito A. Bellamo June 16th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Cashman is just posturing. CC and Tex will be in the Bronx by the end of the month….

  33. Mark (Free Brett Campaign) June 16th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    This is from a jason stark column from june 13th on AAron Cook.

    Cook-off dept.: While O’Dowd declined to comment about Holliday or any other of the Rockies’ specific, prospective trade plans, he did shoot down last week’s Rumblings note that Aaron Cook could be available. “We’re not doing anything with Cookie,” the GM said flatly.

  34. MoBoy June 16th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    There isn’t a trade market but there will be soon.Come July the Padres will be worse and the Mariners are basically done.Cashman will trade for a pitchers thats certain because Wang is out for bascially the whole season.

    If you think you believe what Cashman is saying then he must be insane.He thinks Fransworth can be a set-up man and he said Today Kei Igawa is a choice to come up because he’s pitching like the other overrated pitchers in Scranton pretty good.

    Sure.That will make the rumors go away.He needs to make a trade.

  35. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (Jose Tabata Supporter 4 Life !!!!) June 16th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    Cashman is just posturing. CC and Tex will be in the Bronx by the end of the month….

    Highly doubt it. This ain’t the old regime anymore.

  36. Jeter2007 June 16th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    pretty harsh on cashman… i think he’s done a decent job as gm

    what else was the team supposed to do coming into the seaason? hughes and kennedy were ready to start in the majors, chamerlain was ready to start in july, and there were good pitchers waiting in aaa.

    other teams have to put up with awful #5 starters, and maybe awful #4′s. the whole world knows about our bad starts because we’re the yankees.

    season isn’t over yet.

  37. ANSKY June 16th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    With Kennedy coming back soon, Joba now in the rotation, Pettitte doing well enough, Mussina re-invented and Hughes coming back next month, I think it would be hasty to pull the trigger on a deal this far before the trade deadline. That could be a good starting five if the kids live up to reasonable expectations.

    Sure, Hughes & Kennedy didn’t do their part in April but we’ll be able to get a read on where each guy is soon enough.

    Basically I’m all for sitting tight for a few weeks to see how Joba & Kennedy hold up. After only a few times through the rotation we should know more.

    Just for sake of argument, let’s say for 4 turns through the rotation. Wang would probably have won 3 of his 4 turns. If his ‘replacement’ wins 2 of the 4 turns, we’ve only lost 1 game over the season. I’d sacrifice that 1 game difference (even if it as 2) not to make a stupid long-term move in desperation. And the trade deadline would still be ahead of us.

    In the meantime of course it’s a good idea to do the research & groundwork for a good CC deal. But make only a GOOD deal, not a desperate one, and only if needed. Mr CC can be acquired for money and prospects this year, but he can probably be acquired for only money next year.

    Further, sitting tight for a few turns would allow us to see if making a move for a slightly lesser pitcher such as Wolf (for lesser prospects) might be the safer/wiser move than unloading the farm for CC considering he’ll be a free agent this winter.

  38. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    “i love how all those who 100% supported cashman’s plan to go into this year with two rookies in the rotation are now scrambling to come up with more brilliant ideas. as if the first idea wasn’t bad enough.”

    Let’s see what Cashman has managed to do this season.

    Rookie Pitcher A gets injured – Rookie pitcher A is replaced by Darrell Rasner from the minor league system who pitches great for peanuts.

    Rookie Pitcher B gets injured, takes a while but Rookie pitcher B is replaced by Rookie Pitcher C who looks like the real deal.

    So let’s see we have two injuries and two back up plans that have seemingly worked thus far.

    Now we have Veteran Pitcher A who is injured, Cashman is again saying he will look internally for a solution.

    G. Love and Randy continue to berate Cashman for being an idiot and yet they don’t see how 2 back up plans that Cashman had up his sleeve.

    Let’s see other moves made by Brian Dunceman.

    Relief pitcher A is injured. Relief pitcher A (Brian Bruney) is replaced in the rotation by Minor League relief pitcher A (Edwar Ramirez) who pitches excellently by the way.

    Relief pitcher B is injured (Albaladejo), Relief Pitcher B is replaced by Rookie Relief Pitcher A (Jose Veras) who also pitches excellently.

    So let’s see that’s 4 injuries to pitcher’s and the Yankees have not had to trade for a pitcher yet. Amazingly the replacement have pitched better than the incumbents.

    I don’t think Cashman is perfect, but G. Love and Randy you two really need to respect his gangster with some of the moves he made this year. His backup plans have been great thus far.

  39. 2008 Yankees June 16th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    Here’s hoping Hughes can get back by August 1st and pitch WELL. If IPK can keep his pitch count down and help the team through July, I think things will work out just fine. The problem is the rest of the month of June. At least Joba is on his own now.

  40. Joe Monte June 16th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    “According to ESPN’s Peter Gammons, the Los Angeles Dodgers had internal discussions about trying to deal Brad Penny for Yankees’ second baseman Robinson Cano, but recent shoulder problems have likely rendered Penny untradeable.”

    Cashman wouldn’t consider this deal, I hope.

  41. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    GreenBeret/BBB,

    Sorry to piggyback on you guys’ ideal. I agree with you though and think it might be worth a look.

  42. bodhisattva June 16th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    “i love how all those who 100% supported cashman’s plan to go into this year with two rookies in the rotation are now scrambling to come up with more brilliant ideas. as if the first idea wasn’t bad enough.”

    No, a “brilliant idea” is having a broken down old nag like Kevin Brown pitch Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS.

    Want a few more “brilliant ideas” that support acquiring “veteran” pitchers? How about Randy against the Angels in 2005 ALDS? Or perhaps you preferred Wright AND Randy against the 2006 Tigers and their ROOKIE pitcher Verlander?

    Clueless.

  43. Doreen June 16th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    The front office (Cashman, et al) are under no obligation to tell us all the details of how they’re dealing with a situation, positive or negative. Especially if telling all the minutia and all the thinking processes weakens their position.

    Cashman NEVER tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I never expect him to. Frankly, why should he?

    He did not rule out a trade; he said the trade market “has not revealed itself yet” because it’s too early in the season. That’s the known market. One never knows what they are willing to wheel and deal; but you can’t sell the future to treat a temporary condition in the present.

    Let’s see how things go before we decide the season is done or that Brian Cashman has no brains. He sounded pretty reasoned to me; he’s a rational guy and whether you like every move he makes, none of the moves he makes, or a little of each, no one can say that man doesn’t think everything through and try to make the best decisions at a given moment with the given set of circumstances.

  44. Jeremy June 16th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    G. Love,

    Soon after calling Cano for being a lazy imbecile who’s too stupid to understand that he has to play well to have a career and doesn’t care about winning, you call Cashman an “idiot” and “jerk” because he said there’s no trade market. This is great stuff from the poor man’s SJ44.

    You apparently believe that Cashman’s comment means he will sit on his hands for the rest of the season, even if a great opportunity becomes available. Since you must have only started following the Yankees this year, you should be aware that in the past several seasons, Cashman has pulled off blockbuster trades and acquisitions that came as a complete surprise to the fans and media alike. Some of these players, whom you may have heard of, include ARod, Abreu, and Clemens.

    You are also possessed of a bizarre confidence that Cashman will take Wang’s injury as an opportunity to force Igawa into the rotation. You seem to ignore the fact that Cashman has had numerous opportunities to bring up Igawa but has never done so. Most recently he has gone with Rasner and Giese rather than Igawa. He has also moved Joba into the rotation rather than leave him in the pen and bring up Igawa.

    Just like your theories on Cano, your portrayal of Cashman as a GM obsessed with getting starts from one of his big FA acquisitions is not supported by any evidence at all.

    I’m not even going to touch your laughable comment about Igawa being the worst FA deal in history except to say you should look up Barry Zito’s deal. And that’s just for recently-signed pitchers.

  45. 2008 Yankees June 16th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    Sidney Ponson is available again…lol

  46. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    “This is from a jason stark column from june 13th on AAron Cook.

    Cook-off dept.: While O’Dowd declined to comment about Holliday or any other of the Rockies’ specific, prospective trade plans, he did shoot down last week’s Rumblings note that Aaron Cook could be available. “We’re not doing anything with Cookie,” the GM said flatly.”

    Doh! Although I believe anybody can be had at the right price.

  47. Jeter2007 June 16th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    penny?

    5.9 era, 1.6 whip, .304 baa, 57k/36bb

    lol

  48. Drew June 16th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    I would love to see Geise get it done. It makes me sick that Cashman just told Mike and the Mad Dog that Igawa is the 2nd option. Calling Freddy Garcia?

  49. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Okay, here’s the deal, it sounds like our farm is loaded with right handed arms, and we need left handed arms. Sabathia would have been the ideal candidate, but I suppose he’s off the table – maybe? Anyway, I like the ideas floated around: Harang, Cook, Lowe (my favorite for the above reasons), Peavey, etc.
    Giving up a few of our surplus arms shouldn’t hurt our future, but I hesitate on our quality position players, i.e. Ajax, Gardner, Tabata, and others. Sabathia, or any other top of the order starter will mean having to give up one or more of those guys, and I’m not for that. We all know getting a front line starter is no guarantee of anything.
    Wang is gone for the season, as SJ44 rightly said, ok, then let’s get one of these less expensive guys for the rest of the season and see if we can compete for a title. If we fail, at least we didn’t give up all our good young players for a hope and a prayer.

  50. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    Cashman owes us for not getting Santana, he has to get Sabathia he has no choice I hate how he acts like there is nothing he can do the farm is bursting with talent and the Yanks are losing 80 million in payroll after this season I hate how the Yanks like to play the little orphan annie roll they are not the Twins or A’s they can afford anyone. I cant wait to see the quotes from Hank on the 4th of July when the Yanks are 15 games out with Giese and Rasner rounding out the rotation.

  51. whozat June 16th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    “His backup plans have been great thus far.”

    And don’t forget that one of his higher-end backup plans missed a bunch of time. Horne may have gotten to the bigs already if he hadn’t been hurt. And another of his probably-league-average backup plans (Karstens) got hurt too.

    I mean, he started the season with

    Wang
    Pettitte
    Moose
    Hughes
    Kennedy
    Horne
    Rasner
    Karstens
    Igawa

    with the plan that, if any _one_ guy went down, the depth could hold us over until Joba moved into the rotation. And that’s just the AAA depth. But THREE of the original starting five are on the DL right now. That has nothing to do with rookie status. People are lambasting Cash for maybe not having enough depth to make up for losing THREE of his original starting five? Seriously?

  52. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (Jose Tabata Supporter 4 Life !!!!) June 16th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    Drew he can’t be serious about Igawa-san I’ll hurt him, I’m very serious about that I can run just as fast a Igawa too so catching him a swinging a bat at his leg will not be too difficult :)

    I’m calling smoke screen I think Cutch, Horne, Aceves or Marquez will be the next call up.

  53. Jeter2007 June 16th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    gardner is not indispensable

    let’s wait until the trade deadline to see what we have and what’s out there

  54. Bob June 16th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    The Yanks have 27 pitchers on the 40-man roster, and right now 10 of them are on the DL(I’m including Chase Wright). The fact that they still have options left for replacing Wang internally is really quite amazing.

  55. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (Jose Tabata Supporter 4 Life !!!!) June 16th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    If my sentence didn’t make sense it was because of the Bronson Arroyo drinking game.

  56. Anthony Murillo June 16th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    I wonder if Cashman want’s to trade the current Yankees team – besides Hughes, Chamberlain, Melky, and Kennedy – and just call up the entire Triple A team. He seems to have man crushes on all of these prospects that he won’t trade.

  57. Anthony Murillo June 16th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    I wonder if Cashman want’s to trade the current Yankees team – besides Hughes, Chamberlain, Melky, and Kennedy – and just call up the entire Triple A team. He seems to have man crushes on all of these prospects that he won’t trade.

  58. Jeremy June 16th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Al from BK,

    You might just embody the kind of fan that makes so many people hate the Yankees. Little Orphan Annie? We just gave ARod a $300 million contract.

  59. fleas (santana syndrome) June 16th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    Oy Vey! Who has smelling salts, I am about to pass out!

    G.Love: I hear ya.. I am feeling the same way right now.. even if I am dating Cashman’s nanny.

  60. stuart June 16th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    Raymagnetic thansk for your comments..

    Veras and Edwar look like they have a chance.

    sounds like they have more good pen arms coming.. still hope they get rid of Kyle and Latroy..

    Igawa will not be shoved down out throats he may get a start and if he gets bobed that will be it..

    I personally would like to see horne at least he has chance of succeeding.. Karstens stinks I already know that….

  61. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    “It makes me sick that Cashman just told Mike and the Mad Dog that Igawa is the 2nd option.”

    I was driving when I heard that and almost crashed my car.

    If it’s Igawa..I say we start the “Hell no Igawa” protest in Times Square and march our way to Yankees Stadium. My offer to providing the pitchforks still stands. Maybe Peter/lohud can provide the torches?

    Friday a good date for everyone?

    ;)

  62. Steph June 16th, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Cashman owes us something for not getting Santana? What kind of thinking is that? Cashman doesn’t owe us anything.

  63. ANSKY June 16th, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Al from BK

    Cashman doest ‘owe’ any of us dick.
    Especially the people who see it like you do.

  64. Steph June 16th, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    Oh, and the owner of the Twins? Yeah, he’s a billionaire. He can afford to spend more on his team, he just chooses not to.

  65. rconn23 June 16th, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    A lot could change between now and the trade deadline. The trade market will heat up. The Yankees may do nothing, but Cashman’s statements today mean little.

  66. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    “Raymagnetic thansk for your comments..”

    No problem. Just trying to keep a level head over here.

  67. Jeter2007 June 16th, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    “man crushes on all of these prospects” ?

    complaints about us keeping our prospects ?

    there aren’t that many gm’s, if any, out there that would have traded phil hughes… i still wouldn’t want him to be traded

    if indians ask for hughes + 2 aaa players for cc, i would have to say no thanks, even if we’re able to sign him long term – i still believe in him

  68. Patrick Bateman June 16th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    Cashman on WFAN:

    Giese, Igawa, Karstens are all options.

    Oy vey.

  69. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    “G. Love and Randy continue to berate Cashman for being an idiot and yet they don’t see how 2 back up plans that Cashman had up his sleeve.”

    the only thing cashman has up his sleeve is a really short arm.

  70. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    from previous thread
    Solution to the Wang injury.
    Treat every start that Wang was going to do like an all-star game. Bring up Meloncon,Robertson,Patterson,Cox and whoever else i missed. Have them go 1 or 2 innings in that game till we get it to MO.

    PROBLEM SOLVED.

    Use our strengths to cover our weakness.

  71. ANSKY June 16th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    SA –

    Maybe Cashman is just having fun with M&M by saying Iggy’s any one of the options.

    If I was him and I was talking to them, I’d tell them whatever BS gets them most revved up.

  72. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    So Cano gets a couple of hits this weekend and he’s back?

    Let’s see about that.

    I’d still trade him for CC in a heartbeat.

    As for Cashman, the only trades he makes are one’s where we get an all star making or looking for big money and we send cash to the other team and a couple of warm bodies.

    And please, his plan B’s this year are completely shift on the fly. If Rasner implodes, he’s not the genius some of us are giving him credit for.

    His off season plan was HORRIBLE this year. All of us in the pre-season were counting on either Wang or Pettitte to hit the DL at some point this year.

    Obviously what happened is a worst case scenario with Wang, but he could have constructed this team in the off season to whether this kind of stuff.

    We’re talking about Igawa again people. That’s his backup plan right now?

    You feel all warm and fuzzy about that?

    If you do, please slap yourself in the face really hard and then slam your face into the wall a few times.

    I’ve been a fan of this team my whole life. My family has had the same seats since the 80′s. Maybe because I spend hard earned money on the team, I have a different set of priorities compared to some of you who like to look at stats and projections on paper vs. watching the big league team win at the major league level.

    Either way, Cashman could have delivered his message a lot of different ways today and instead it came off in a way to piss people off who think his job is to go out and find solutions.

    That’s what I think his job is. To me, it seems, he’s gunshy because of his own bad decisions in the past few years when it comes to other teams players.

    I’d rather my GM be fearless and realize you win some trades and you lose some, than try to control the process the way it seems he’s trying to.

    If every top contender in the league goes after CC, we won’t get him because our GM isn’t fearless. He’s terrified some of these kids are going to be good for someone else.

    Meanwhile we have 20 RH pitching prospects who all have similar stuff in the system.

    They all can’t make the major league club, can they?

  73. Steph June 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    Cox is on the DL.

  74. Instant Classic June 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    What about Alan Horne? He seems to be the forgotten man. He’s made a few starts in Scranton since the injury, and if Giese doesn’t pan out after a start or two, why not look to him. If the Yankees are contending seriously around the end of July then they can go after Sabathia or … whoever ends up being available in a few months. It’s not like the Yankees don’t have options with Giese/Horne/Karstens/McCutchen/Kennedy and then Hughes in August. Some people need a reality check here. This isn’t 1996-2003, and the Yankees are not even the best team in their division (possibly not even second best). Just making the playoffs this year would be an accomplishment. No need to mortgage the future for a guy who still won’t be enough to get you out of the first round in the playoffs, unless the yankees go on a lucky hot streak such as the Rockies did last year.

  75. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    Cashman has a man crush on every one of the guys in the minors its ridiculous. All of these guys will not be All-stars I cant stand this logic if you can get C.C. even if its pricey you gotta do it or come forward publicly call all the guys on the active roster into the clubhouse and say “Guys we have given up on 08 and we have given up on you. This team is no longer about this year its about next year, its not even about you guys its about Austin Jackson, Dellin Betances, Andy Brackman, Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Jesus Montero, Jose Tabata, Brett Gardner” Thats essentially what they are saying and if they wanna do it they should step up and say it to the players faces.

  76. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    I hope so ANSKY..maybe Cashman was trying to punk em.

    But just in case..Igawa protest…Friday..9am
    Be there..or be square.. ;)

    I wonder if we need a permit…

  77. fleas (santana syndrome) June 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    This is all wrong, we are going about this backwards. I thought trades are for making your team better.. and not trading is because you have a better team without the trade..

    well cash blew the santana deal, and now he is about to blow the cc deal too!

  78. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (Jose Tabata Supporter 4 Life !!!!) June 16th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    Last year I remember vividly a strong 75 % out of 100 % wanted Joba traded for Eric Gagne and Mark Teixiera, Don’t say no I was reading comments board to board. So people bi….n about keeping the prospects. Tough.

  79. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (Jose Tabata Supporter 4 Life !!!!) June 16th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    well cash blew the santana deal, and now he is about to blow the cc deal too!

    waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !

  80. bodhisattva June 16th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    “Cashman owes us for not getting Santana,”

    Don’t speak for me. “Us” didn’t want Santana.

    You don’t represent “us.”

  81. Peter Rabbit June 16th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Some might see Wang being out as a horribly bad thing, but I see it as a chance to see what our kids can do. These moments are what farm systems are for. You can’t just trade every time someone gets injured. Take it easy!

  82. fleas (santana syndrome) June 16th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    G.Love: Keep it coming man good stuff!

    Wake these sleepy fans up and more importantly let it out.. don’t worry, everyone here crucifies you if you don’t agree with the masses.. even if they are all stupid and blind.

    “Meanwhile we have 20 RH pitching prospects who all have similar stuff in the system. ”

    HAHA, and why is that? It’s like holding on to old lottery tickets even though the drawing was over a month ago!

  83. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Oh and at least Barry Zito can pitch actual innings in the major leagues.

    46 million for a minor leaguer is the worst all time deal in history. End of story.

  84. billy June 16th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Bullpen arms were the hot commodity on the free agent market in the offseason. Mayve Roberston would have value? He has been lights out and hasn’t had TJS so nothing besides LaTroy is holding him back. I guess Spring Training did mean sh*t and was a sign of things to coume.

  85. Jeter2007 June 16th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    who was counting on wang or pettitte to land on the DL ?

    wang pitched 30+ games the 2 previous years and the year before was his 1st year

    pettitte has pitched 30+ games his entire career since 1995, except for ’02 and ’04 – that’s 12 of 14 years

    pretty bold claim there

  86. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    NOBODY in the minors is even close to Joba please dont even talk like that. It is dangerously arrogant to think that every prospect in your system is Jay Bruce or Joba Chamberlain.

  87. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    Okay, listen, Calling Peter Abraham!!! Hey, Peter, are you out there…knock…knock…knock…I really would like to know what the Dodgers would take for Derrick Lowe. You are in touch with what goes on around baseball, is he a good fit, and what would it take to get the deal done?

  88. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 16th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    The Yankees have weathered worse than this.

    It sucks, to be sure, but unlike A-Rod and Posada, Wang doesn’t play every day.

    As bad as things are, they could be a lot worse. Joba could still be a reliever with Giese in the minonrs. Mussina could be pitching like he did last August. Pettitte could have opted not to come back.

    Look, we’re not the only ones dealing with decimating injuries. The Red Sox lost Ortiz, and there’s no saying if JD Drew can keep up his production the entire season. The tigers are only just about to get Rodney back, and the Indians just lost their best hitter in Victor Martinez.

    That the Yankees have the ability to solve the problem from within even with Pavano, Igawa, etc… speaks a lot about the resources of this team.

  89. whozat June 16th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    “He seems to have man crushes on all of these prospects that he won’t trade.”

    People who think like this…what is it that you want him to be saying? “I will give up ANYTHING for a pitcher who can help us in the bigs right now!”

    Seriously? Look at Santana…the guy has already lost 3-4 MPH off his fastball. And you wish Cash had traded the farm for him and given him a 7 year deal? What is wrong with you people? CC is a different case, that should be taken on its own merits. We’ll have to see what the market is for him before we can make any rational conclusions. You want Cash to trade for him right now? HOW? The Indians ARE NOT READY TO MAKE A TRADE! So, what should he do? Offer Cano, Hughes, Horne, Jackson and Montero to anyone who will do a deal right now?

  90. Patrick Bateman June 16th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    ” G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm”

    Great post. You’re right about Cashman in so many ways. He had no backup plan for Hughes and Kennedy this year. We didn’t even investigate someone like Colon if one or both of them failed.

    Cashman is the master of the salary dump trade because of the financial power of the Yankees. The ARod and Abreu trades were both salary dumps. No other team besides the Yankees could have taken on 30M for Abreu and Lidle. The ARod trade as good as it was to get rid of Soriano and get something better in return, was still a huge salary dump by the Rangers.

  91. bphill June 16th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    the two players who I think could compete and I would approve of seriously no joke

    David Wells
    Derek Lowe

  92. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    For some reason the following keeps getting thrown off, I will try again:

    Calling Peter Abraham!!! Hey, Peter, are you out there…knock…knock…knock…I really would like to know what the Dodgers would take for Derrick Lowe. You are in touch with what goes on around baseball, is he a good fit, and what would it take to get the deal done?

    I really would like to know, seriously.

  93. billy June 16th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

    Standing pat and not making a move=Damon Oppenheimer GM in 09.

  94. GreenBeret7 June 16th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

    Cashman didn’t say Igawa was the second choice, only that right now he was the #2 healthy minor league pitcher. Giese will get the Friday start, which should give the Yanks an additional 10 days or so to evaluate the recovery and or effectiveness of pitchers like McCutchen, Karstens, Horne and a couple of others. Don’t be surprised if Jason Jones or Stephen White get starts before Igawa.

  95. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    Who was counting on Pettitte and Wang to make every single start this year?

  96. jay destro June 16th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    jason jones never pitched a game above double a in his life. he’s a friend of a co-worker of mine. jason is pretty sure where he stands in the organization.

  97. yanks blow June 16th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

    eat it fools.. have fun getting to the playoffs now..

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

  98. tonyb June 16th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    While he is not perfect, I think the Cashman bashing is out of line. He and Yankee management have undertaken a very difficult 2 pronged business strategy. 1. remain competitive and have a shot at a world series title and 2. get younger, cut payroll and therefore luxury tax. This is the most difficult (crazy perhaps) strategy you can undertake as a GM. Takes Balls, but he has ownership behind him.

    I think they are sick of financing the other teams with the luxury tax. You can’t just blame Cash for going with the youth movement as the whole organization is focused on these goals and every decision they make is balanced in this way, like it or not. They are looking a few years down the road as well as for today.

    We will just have to be patient and see how the arms from the minors do and also hope that the right trade opportunity presents itself. Cash has made some prudent mid-season moves, and I think we owe him the benefit of the doubt.

    I think he has learned from past mistakes, and that is all you can ask.

  99. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    I would appreciate it if someone would tell me what it would take to get Derrick Lowe? Pete, do you know? If not fine, I would just like to know.

  100. Anthony Murillo June 16th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    If we would have traded for Johan, then the Wang injury isnt that huge

  101. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    Derek Lowe sounds good I wonder if the Dodgers will do that.

  102. billy June 16th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    Steven White? They better stretch him out:) He has been banished to the pen.

  103. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    raymagnetic-

    the simple smart thing to have done in the past off season was to add a veteran #3 starter instead of going with two rookies with very little track record in the rotation. then there would have been some depth to the pitching staff.

    cashman chose not to do that. well he was wrong.

    i would now very much like to see cashman now carry out his younger and cheaper plan and see if it either works or it doesn’t.

    the catch is he leaves or is bumped aside if it doesn’t work.

    this is a revenue sharing league now. changes in the season don’t come easy. there is no easy way for cashman to buy his way out of this one.

  104. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    I think the biggest mistake this orginization made was trying to field an all star at every position in the 2000′s. I think some of us have gotten spoiled with it and expect to always counter and injury with an all star. From the looks of things. It looks like Cash and company are turning the page from that direction. We dont need to make a trade for C.C. We have enough offense on this team to have a pitcher that is around the 4 era mark and succeed. When we got Chacon and Small in 06 i believe. We were hit hard with injuries. They werent Peavy or Santana. But they won us games. I expect the same this time around. At the very least we have a deeper system to not panic this time around. This team has shown its resiliancy these last couple years. It wont be any different this year.

  105. Blargh June 16th, 2008 at 5:48 pm

    “If we would have traded for Johan, then the Wang injury isnt that huge”

    Yea, we wouldn’t have Wang then to care about him getting injured

  106. whozat June 16th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    “He had no backup plan for Hughes and Kennedy this year. ”

    What do you call Horne, Rasner and Karstens? This is exactly what they were…backup plans for Hughes and Kennedy. Giese as well.

    No one wanted to give Colon a chance. The Sox just happened to not have any arms in AAA that really needed to start, so they had a spot for him. It’s worked out great, but he was throwing in the high 80s this winter. This outcome for Colon was not particularly likely.

  107. Jason June 16th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    Everyone needs to calm down. What did you expect Cashman to do? Come out crying and begging someone to trade them a pitcher?

  108. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    “And please, his plan B’s this year are completely shift on the fly. If Rasner implodes, he’s not the genius some of us are giving him credit for.

    His off season plan was HORRIBLE this year. All of us in the pre-season were counting on either Wang or Pettitte to hit the DL at some point this year.”

    “Either way, Cashman could have delivered his message a lot of different ways today and instead it came off in a way to piss people off who think his job is to go out and find solutions. ”

    I love this. His plan B’s are all shift on the fly even though he started the season with all of those pitchers already in the organization and has made moves accordingly.

    Rasner is pitching well now, I guess that doesn’t matter to you. All that matters is what “might” happen with Rasner.

    Then you say you believe a GM’s job is to go out and find solutions. Isn’t that “shifting on the fly”? He’s found internal solutions who have done well and that’s somehow not good enough for you.

    Incredible, simply incredible!

    And I’m sorry but your family’s 20 year season tickets don’t make you somehow a better fan than one who watches games on TV. That’s really pompous for you to even suggest such a thing.

  109. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    “the two players who I think could compete and I would approve of seriously no joke

    David Wells
    Derek Lowe”

    No on Wells. Yes on Lowe. He would be my first choice of the NON ACE/lose the entire farm list.

  110. whozat June 16th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    “the simple smart thing to have done in the past off season was to add a veteran #3 starter ”

    And which #3 starters were available, pray tell? How would you have gotten this person without trading a guy like Hughes?

    Again…are you intimating that their rookie-hood somehow contributed to their getting injured? Because if they weren’t injured, it’s pretty likely that, given Horne, Rasner, and Joba’s move to the rotation we’d be fine. Hughes, especially, is far too talented to keep being so hideously bad.

  111. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    from the last post.
    “Wang’s injury is the nail in the coffin for the “keep Joba in the pen” argument.”

    Yeah. But the “we wouldnt have this problem if Santana was a Yank” is probably going to flare up.

    Sooner than i thought.

  112. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    “the simple smart thing to have done in the past off season was to add a veteran #3 starter instead of going with two rookies with very little track record in the rotation. then there would have been some depth to the pitching staff.

    cashman chose not to do that. well he was wrong.”

    No, the simple thing would have been to have Rasner in the organization to contribute and have Chamberlain in the organization to contribute down the road.

    Why throw away 8mil on a Livan Hernandez type when Rasner can do similarly or better for peanuts.

  113. anita bonghit June 16th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    i think is harder to watch games on t.v anybody can pay and go to the games it takes dedication to watch day in and day out….trust me

  114. Blargh June 16th, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    Anyway, Sabathia’s case is where if you can trade a few lesser prospects for him and sign him to a ‘reasonable’ extension, it’s something to look into. Nothing I’d sell the farm for, though. In the mean time, go for internal solutions and observe if the offense can keep things up. If the offense goes back to the grave, then this is all moot anyway.

  115. Steph June 16th, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    I guess some of these people would have felt it was better if Cashman had said, “Hey Yankee fans! Guess what? I’m going to trade for C.C. Sabathia ASAP! Yup, the Indians don’t even know it. Don’t worry though. I’ll get rid of absolutely everything that they want if it means we get him…even if it’s just a 2-month rental.”

    I’d rather that the Yanks try to solve it internally before they seek a trade.

  116. Rock em Sock em Robots June 16th, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    Unfortunately, I really think that this injury is going to show just how valuable and how good Wang really is. Some how, he never gets the credit he deserves. Sad that its going to take an injury like this to show Yankee fans his worth.

    Despite this, I’m still optimistic about the playoffs. First, our offense is finally clicking and is now as good or better than anyone else’s in MLB. Second, we have what I would say equals 3 above average starters. Not to many teams even have 2 good starters. Pettitte (always a gamer in the second half), Moose (having a reemergence this year) and Joba (training wheels are now off and he has looked like the real deal). Third, the bullpen (fingers crossed) might finally be coming around. I’m sure that the offense will do its part. The two critical questions going forward I think are whether or not Moose can have a comparable second half and whether or not our 4th and 5th starters can do enough to give the offense a chance to win the game. I think we have enough to get to October though.

  117. bphill June 16th, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    Well I just think wells would be a fun guy, but can he get off the couch?

    For Derek Lowe, I don’t think the price would be high, but I would think that like Marquez and Betances would get the deal done, that might be a little cheap though, could be more.

  118. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    “But THREE of the original starting five are on the DL right now. That has nothing to do with rookie status”

    rookie pitchers are fragile . they break easy. that’s why there are innings limits.

    building a staff around rookies is a risky proposition.

    that was the achilles heel of cashman’s plan right from the beginning.

  119. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Why can’t some of you think a little bit before you post.

    How can Cashman “blow” the CC deal if its not even known CC is available?

    Also, what do you want him to say 3 hours after he finds out Wang is done for most, if not all of the season?

    “We have to do ANYTHING to get a starter”?

    He also said Bubba Crosby was going to be the starting CF in 2006. How did that work out?

    He’s going to say the party line. Which is, find solutions from within right now. Its all he can do at the present time.

    He’s not going to tell Mike and the Mad Dog or anybody else publicly what he will do.

    He’s right, there is no trade market right now. There will be in July and when it forms, he will be aggressive.

    If you really believe he’s going to stay from within the rest of the season, you are very naive about the workings of baseball.

  120. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    “I think the biggest mistake this orginization made was trying to field an all star at every position in the 2000’s.”

    Damn straight! What is really depressing is the fact they could not see (maybe I should say George could not see) that the teams that won 4 World Series championships in 5 years were loaded with guys who were not all-stars. Guys who filled a role, guys who hit in the clutch (Chad Curtis, Jimmy Leyritz, Joe Girardi), and guys who would run through a wall to win (Paul O’Neill, Andy Pettit, Tino, Jetes, Bernie, Mo, El DUKE, the list goes on and on). The same crap happened in the 80′s when George decided to bring in all those “All-Stars” and ended up having the longest drought for a pennant or playoff in Yankee history!

    Cashman is on the right track, let him do his job.

  121. Blargh June 16th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    (for the record, I can’t see Shapiro shopping Sabathia until next month)

  122. Boston Dave June 16th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    the sad thing is, The Indians will keep CC until close to the trade deadline (July 31st) and STILL get just as much in a trade.

    The Yankees need CC now, to make apx. 18 starts. Once the bidding for him starts in a month, he’ll only be making maybe 13 starts for whoever trades for him, but that team will still be giving up just as much as if they were to trade for him today and his 18 starts (due to a likely larger trade market).

  123. bru June 16th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    g.love,take it easy.by cashman saying that it doesn’t hurt their chances with a trade.gm’s aren’t going to say i won’t make a deal because cashman said their was no trade market plus he is right.their is no ace to replace wang unless we give up the farm and that is not an option.you win with a lot of pitchers and get what you can as far as great pitchers when you can get them.i am scared that igawa will get another shot but because they have a good farm system someone will step up.i would trade melky,kennedy and a prospect for sabathia or harden but not montero or brackman.kennedy can be replaced easilly and next year sabathia or harden can be that replacement and gardner for now can replace melky so they would stay the same as a team or get better and next year it would be sabathia,wang,joba,hughes and the yankees will bring back both pettitte and moose for 1 year for less money. cashman is on the right track,this is the time when suprises happen.

  124. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 16th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    Yeah. But the “we wouldnt have this problem if Santana was a Yank” is probably going to flare up.

    Sooner than i thought.

    Too true.

    Still, guys, if you think the Yankees are done, perhaps you should be watching the Mets. They have Santana and thus all their problems went away, right?

  125. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    “i think is harder to watch games on t.v anybody can pay and go to the games it takes dedication to watch day in and day out….trust me”

    Agreed. It even takes more dedication to watch the game and blog at the same time. Or is that a sickness?

  126. Kyle June 16th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    Seriously, who is this vaunted #3 starter that the Yankees should have signed? We could have signed Carlos Silva for $48M over 4 years or Kyle Lohse to a similar deal. Pouring money into those two funds would be well wasted.

  127. Anthony Murillo June 16th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    We need a big arm, we really do.

    If Ian can step up when he returns from the DL (which I doubt) then I will be happy. Trust me, I don’t think Sabathia is the right pitcher for us… but he’s better than Igawa/Karstens/Kennedy have been for us thus far.

  128. Jorge Steinbrenner (the long lost third brother) June 16th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    It’s pretty clear, from reading the comments on here, why Brian Cashman gets paid to do what he does, and why the folks who think they can do a better job are stuck on Pete’s blog’s comments section.

    Of course Sabathia’s a ridiculous idea. It’s yet another example of thinking we’re “one guy away” from righting the ship. You’re never really one guy away and, every time you think you are, something else is bound to happen.

    All I can say that there could be much worse positions than having to rely on two excellent veterans like Mike Mussina and Andy Pettitte to rise to the occassion when needed. Our #3 right now ain’t too shabby either…

    …besides, isn’t Wang not a REEEEEEAAAL ace, and no better than a #3? if you believe that, then you should have no reason to be freaking out right now, right? ;)

  129. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    We all just have to be patient and see what happens.
    I also know that is gonna be easier said than done..

    Padres coming to town..let’s kick their butts

  130. Boston Dave June 16th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    I’m going to reflect back a few seasons when they made the playoffs with a rotation that included:

    Aaron Small
    Shawn Chacon
    Cory Lidle (RIP)
    Jaret Wright

    We can sit here and cry and whine about Cashman not signing Johan or immediately trading the farm for Sabathia.

    Or we can stay optimistic, remember that our offense is pretty good, and they can still pull this out… as unlikely as it may seem. Or, judging by their 2006 rotation, not as unlikely as some are making it.

  131. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    “rookie pitchers are fragile . they break easy. that’s why there are innings limits.

    building a staff around rookies is a risky proposition.

    that was the achilles heel of cashman’s plan right from the beginning.”

    All pitchers get hurt, rookie or not. It’s a part of the game.

    How many backup plans is Cashman supposed to have?

    He essentially replaced 4 injured pitchers in the major leagues and all of the replacements have pitched well thus far.

    What more do you want from the man? Man alive!

    I guess Cashman should also have 2 shortstops, 2 third baseman, 3 left fielders, and 4 catchers available in the minor leagues who are good enough to replace Jeter, Arod, Posada, and Damon.

  132. pete June 16th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    how about a quantity for quality type deal w/ KC for Greinke?
    Gardner (kinda like joey gathright, except better), Robertson (toughest for me to part with, but the royals would love to have a setup/closer combination like robertson-soria and we have 409838203038 bullpen arms), Cutch/Horne (decent upside, near mlb ready, good enough to replace greinke in the royals rotation)
    Carmen Angelini (pretty high upside at a premium position for a team clearly looking to build)
    Dellin Betances (gotta give to get, and this may be the getter – he could be a future ace)
    No team wants to give up a starter like Greinke, but that may be the haul necessary to do so, and it would leave Cano, Hughes, Jackson, Tabata (if they’d rather him than gardner or soemthing, ok), Montero, Brackman, Cole as our remaining high-ceiling guys, and with or without that type of trade, they’d still have been considered our top prospects by most sources.

  133. RhapsodyInBlue June 16th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    I heard Cashman’s interview on the fan, when he mentioned the name Kei Igawa as an option, the hair on the back of neck stood up.

  134. pete June 16th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    *when i say good enough to replace greinke in the rotation, i merely mean good enough to fill out a rotation spot on a weak royals team

  135. Drive 4-5 June 16th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    G. Love,

    I share your perspective on this one and agree with you. Like you, I spend a lot of hard earned cash on the Yankees. Those of us who shell out the dough don’t feel like we’re entitled to anything more or anything less than the Yankees to put out the best team possible. Incuded in that expectation is a plan in case of injuries or failure of young prospects to produce. We’re not “entitled” to win pennants, but we fully expect to compete for them.

    No one can anticipate injuries. But when the backup plan includes Kei Igawa, or even Ian Kennedy and his limited AAA experience, it’s hard to say the Yankees were well prepared.

  136. GreenBeret7 June 16th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    Yes, Jay destro, I’m aware that Jason Jones hasn’t pitched above AA, but, NYY got 10-12 wins out of AA pitchers last year considering Hughes and Kennedy only had 5 starts each in AAA. NYY can mix and match these kids with some of the weaker hitting teams, instead of putting them in against teams like Boston or the Angels and a couple of other big offense teams. Girardi can juggle the rotation a little. If NYY has any more injuries in the rotation, they’ll be pretty well finished, anyway. Having Cano and Jeter step up will cover a lot of pitching sins. Cabrera can do a bit better, also.

  137. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    “No, the simple thing would have been to have Rasner in the organization to contribute and have Chamberlain in the organization to contribute down the road.”

    rasner and joba are great. but the yankees still needed more pitching depth.

    cashman didn’t address that in the winter when he could have.

    he went too young and too cheap.

    and now the yankees are paying for it.

    … but they still can get to the wild card because there are no good teams. why are those who support cashman so afraid to play out the hand that cashman asked for? cashman may still come out ok just because he’s created a weak team when everyone else is weak too.

    maybe that was his real back up plan to have the best bad team in baseball.

  138. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    I actually keep checking in on the blog at the game on my iPhone so I do both.

    And I never implied I was a better fan than anyone because I have seats. Show me where I said that?

    Some idiot on here slammed me claiming I must have just become a fan of the team which is insulting.

    As for Rasner, Cashman DFA’d the guy and no other team in baseball took a shot at him. He wasn’t plan B. He was plan Z.

    Cashman is lucky Rasner stepped up and contributed because if the real plan B&C Igawa and Karstens, were to be relied on, we’d be 10 games below .500.

    You want to say Cashman is great? Go ahead. I have issues with his moves, non moves and the way he built the club this year.

    All I wanted to hear out of him today was “we’ll try to plug the hole from within while we try to see what shakes on the trade market”.

    Was that unreasonable to ask?

    Instead we get, “no market, Igawa and Karstens”.

    And I’m crazy for being upset?

    Please.

  139. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    GreenBeret,
    Well put. Add that Arod is due for one of those 20 homer months and we could even win games Igawa pitches. O.k maybe not Igawa. But you get what i mean.

  140. bru June 16th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    patrick that is because the yankees have 30 pitchers in the minors that are as good as colon and cost a lot less.you don’t win by panicking and trading 5 players for a great pitcher and have him break down after 2 years and get stuck paying 18-20 million a year for that pitcher for 3-5 years like zito.how are the mets doing with santanna and no farm system,how about bedard that cost the mariners sherrill,jones and 3 great pitching prospects and now they wan’t to trade bedard.you win with the lincecum’s,joba’s,lesters.hughes,buchholz and the other kids.pitching first mixed with a few stars and hard nose players at the other positions,the farm system,debth like the yankees in the 90′s.

  141. Boston Dave June 16th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    “cashman didn’t address that in the winter when he could have.

    he went too young and too cheap.”

    Aside from Johan Santana, who should Cashman have signed as a free agent starter this past offseason? As far as Santana, we just don’t know exactly what the offer was except for the rumored Wang, Kennedy, plus a couple good prospects, which I do not blame Cashman for passing on.

    Please provide some evidence with your arguments – keeping in mind that hindsight is 20/20… they should have been moves that were fairly obvious at the time but Cashman still passed on them.

  142. Anthony Murillo June 16th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    We’ve also lost the playoffs with pitchers like Kevin Brown and Jaret Wright starting in pivotal games in the playoffs.

  143. Anthony Murillo June 16th, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    Mike has brought up Arryro again.

    The hell is his love with Bronson

  144. Boston Dave June 16th, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    “And I’m crazy for being upset?”

    Uh, yes.

  145. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    “I actually keep checking in on the blog at the game on my iPhone so I do both.”

    Ill try to get you the number to “Yankeeholic Annonymous” once i check in to it.

  146. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    G love,

    He’s not going to tip his hand publicly. Geez, come on, you are smarter than that.

    He’s going to do exactly what you want. He has always done it that way.

    There isn’t a trade market in Mid-June for anybody decent. There is if you want to trade Jesus Montero but, I think we can all agree that’s not the way it goes.

    Forget about what he says. It means nothing. You have to see what happens in the next few weeks.

    They will plug in Giese in the rotation and see if they can steal a couple of performances and go from there.

    Its all he can do right now.

  147. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    Well, I will say this, it will tell us a lot about where this organization is heading in the next month.

    Will Cash sacrifice our young players for the “win now” crowd? And, by the way, “win now” is a nice phrase, but it means nothing. All the talent in the world still must go on the field and perform. Let’s be honest, much of the time the team with the most talent is sitting at home in October. It takes more than talent to win.

    Will Cash stick with the farm system and look for help from within. I favor this approach, however, I am not opposed to striking a good deal if the right deal comes along.
    I didn’t think Damon, or Giambi, or Moose would last past April. What a fool I was! That’s what makes this game great, you never know who will step up (see Aaron Small) and provide the impetus you need to make a run.

    I remember in 1965, the Dodgers were fighting for the pennant, and their starting third baseman (I think it was Johnny Werhaus) got injured. They had no one to replace him, so they asked their third base coach, Jim Gilliam, to come out of retirement for just one more season. The Dodgers went on to win the Pennant, and the World Series, with Gilliam hitting a home run in the deciding game 7. You just never know.

  148. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    S.O.S.,

    My wife has told me I’m not allowed to post while I’m at the games anymore. I send her for a pretzel and I pound in a quick post most nights.

  149. Cano is worth keeping June 16th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    Igawa is a ridiculous idea… he had one good “start” when he came on in the first inning and pitched 7 strong… He walks way to many of the other teams players, he goes for strike outs without the capable arsenal to do so, all in all letting him start is asking us to score 10+ runs a game. Giese unless proven otherwise would be a reasonable 5th or 4th starter. He seems to have a plus change and capable of pitching 6+ innings. I have no problem with using him as a stop- gap option… I know this may sound wild but if we can get to late julyish… what about Aceves?

  150. Jeremy June 16th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    G. Love,

    It’s hilarious that you play up your (alleged) decades-long devotion to the team, and yet launch into a passionate argument that ignores much of everything Cashman has done since he got the job and reveals a crazy view of baseball in general. Such as a world where Cashman’s comments about the trade marking have any bearing on what the team will or what do.

    “Either way, Cashman could have delivered his message a lot of different ways today and instead it came off in a way to piss people off who think his job is to go out and find solutions.”

    Right. He pissed off you and the handful of other people who believe that his comments on the radio are anything more than entertainment.

    Apparently, here’s what should have happened.

    Cashman: I am a proactive problem-solver who is not overly infatuated with our prospects. I’m ready to make the right deal for a top pitcher.

    Later that night …

    Shapiro: Hey Brian. I was not going to trade C.C., especially not to the Yankees (after all, you could frequently face us in the playoffs in the years to come), but you sounded so strong in your radio appearance today, I can’t help but offer him to you for a collection of middling prospects and Hughes, even though he’s injured. I am just that much in awe of you.

    “That’s what I think his job is. To me, it seems, he’s gunshy because of his own bad decisions in the past few years when it comes to other teams players.”

    When has Cashman made a bad decision when it comes to other teams’ players. Cashman has a remarkable track record when it comes to trades.

    “I’d rather my GM be fearless and realize you win some trades and you lose some, than try to control the process the way it seems he’s trying to.”

    The only trade (or non-trade) I can imagine you are referring to is Santana. We could debate the pros and cons of a Santana trade forever. That non-move alone cannot possibly serve as proof that Cashman is afraid to make trades.

    “If every top contender in the league goes after CC, we won’t get him because our GM isn’t fearless. He’s terrified some of these kids are going to be good for someone else.”

    No. We won’t get him because Shapiro would prefer to trade his best pitcher to the NL, or failing that, an AL team that is not a perennial playoff contender. Or because another team can offer players that are a better fit for Cleveland. Not because you think Cashman is a big old sissy.

  151. farnsworthy June 16th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    it takes talent to make the play offs. it’s going to be a sad end to yankee stadium. NO PLAYOFFS! thanks all to cashman, lover of prospects.

  152. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    “What more do you want from the man? Man alive!”

    raynagnetic-

    this is the yankees we’re talking about.

    maybe because i’m in the middle of red sox nation , but watching the red sox win two world series in the last 4 years kind of made me think the yankees would do anything to make sure a third didn’t happen this year.

    i’m not happy the cashman didn’t take this year more seriously. it’s like another red sox world championship didn’t happen.

    ironically, i’m saying now throw your best younger and cheaper at the other teams , play your butt off, and hope for the best.

  153. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    “We’ve also lost the playoffs with pitchers like Kevin Brown and Jaret Wright starting in pivotal games in the playoffs.”

    Yes. We’ve also lost games that Clemens,Wang and Johnson pitched. Lets get to the playoffs first and then worry about who pitches in those games.

  154. tcsports (aka kid) June 16th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    “There is no trade market at the moment,” he said. “I’m not optimistic that something can get done on that front. We have to try and plug this gap internally and that’s not going to be easy.”

    Big surprise there. Congrats to the posters who had this one already figured.

  155. Boston Dave June 16th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    “Will Cash sacrifice our young players for the “win now” crowd?”

    As SJ44 eluded to before, especially with Sabathia, why does “win now” exclude them from winning later?

    C.C. is only 27 and is almost certainly the only pitcher they’re going to give a significant package for AND are likely to sign long term if they do make a deal.

  156. Jeremy June 16th, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    “Some idiot on here slammed me claiming I must have just become a fan of the team which is insulting.”

    That was me. I wrote that because (a) you have no idea what you’re talking about, and (b) I find your comments particularly obnoxious.

  157. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    SJ,

    I know you’re right. I’m just concerned that this “new Cashman” is the real Cashman.

    This Cashman who seems wedded to prospects at the risk of the big club.

    If he’s posturing, which I hope he is, fine. If he’s serious, I’m nervous.

    I just think I’m at a point with Cashman where I don’t know who he is as a GM since he’s changed course. He doesn’t seem to live in the grey anymore — everything seems black and white with him.

    Hopefully, my perception is off.

  158. Confucius June 16th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    “Anyway, Sabathia’s case is where if you can trade a few lesser prospects for him and sign him to a ‘reasonable’ extension, it’s something to look into.”

    My sentiments exactly.

    Think of the Pavano deal. 4 years/40 million with just a draft pick surrendered. Relatively speaking, we gave up pocket change to get him. Yet this city rues the day that we did and is eagerly anticipating the day (it’s close folks, just a few more months!) that he’s tossed out the window head first.

    I recognize that Sabathia’s a better pitcher than Pavano. To a degree. He’s not Santana, not by a long stretch. But he is a better pitcher and that needs to be factored in. But there’s also the extra risk involved. This guy used to be overweight and lazy. Reportedly, he’s improved his work ethic in the last few years, he’s clearly kept himself in better shape, and his improved performance is a byproduct. But for a player like that, long-term job security could be just the thing that reverts him to old habits. If he has nothing to work hard for, does he go back to being the old CC? That’s to say nothing of how much all the innings he’s logged (admittedly, a lot of them, every season) will impact that heftier bulk of his when he’s getting into his 30′s. Those of you who obsess over Santana’s home run counts and velocity drops … do none of these things concern you?

    So what’s a reasonable cost given the risk? Given that there’s a decent chance that this guy could end up being our next Pavano? 4-5 years due to the health concerns with 75-90 million to acknowledge his greater potential? Kennedy, Horne & Tabata? That’s about as far as I’d be willing to go. And that’s not even in the ballpark of what the Indians and CC’s agent will be asking.

    To me it’s all about the risk, and there’s too much to justify the costs that will be required. People point out that the high-end prospects aren’t sure things; they could become all-stars, or they could become total failures. In this case, I don’t think the guy we’re looking to acquire is that much more of a certainty. And in his case, failure would cost us a lot more. In five years, we could be looking forward to the day when we can toss -him- out the window head first.

  159. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    “S.O.S.,

    My wife has told me I’m not allowed to post while I’m at the games anymore. I send her for a pretzel and I pound in a quick post most nights.”

    Glove
    My wife is the same. I just tell her im hungry and wait till she starts cookin. Youd think we were on one of those porn sites cheating on them or something. Very sad. If you get the number before i do. Please do me the same consideration.

  160. Mark (Free Brett Campaign) June 16th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    Mike Francesa “Arroyo has been good in 5 of his last 6 starts”

    Lets take a look Mike
    May 19th 5ip 9 hits 3er 3 walks 3 k’s
    May 24th 6 and 1/3rd 7 hits 2 er 1 walk 9k’s
    May 28th 6ip 3 hits 1 er 4 walks 6k’s
    June 2nd 4 and 1/3rd 10 hits 5 er 2 walks 4k’s
    June 7th 4 and 2/3rd 7 hits 4er 2 walks 6k’s
    June 12th 6ip 2 hits 0 er 1 walk 4k’s

  161. Boston Dave June 16th, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    “This Cashman who seems wedded to prospects at the risk of the big club.”

    When the Yanks traded all their prospects for vets, people whined.

    Now people are whining that the Yanks are trying to develop from within instead of trading for vets.

    I think Cashman knows a little more about building a successful club, a mix of both young guys and vets, than any of us.

    So whine on, or suck it up and hope for the best.

  162. GreenBeret7 June 16th, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    SoS27, this year will be like much of last year was, two main starters and three hopes and prayers, and, a lot of offense. Basically, they need to run a patchwork rotation and if anything else happens, it won’t make a difference. This year a third spot is a lot better, although still somewhat still unpredictable at this time.

  163. Boston Dave June 16th, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    It’s amazing that some of the posters here aren’t already ML GMs.

    Or physicians.

  164. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    I didn’t whine we traded for David Cone.

    I didn’t whine we traded for Justice.

    I didn’t whine when we traded for Knoblacuch.

    I didn’t whine we traded for Weaver or Randy Johnson.

    I did whine when we traded for Kevin Brown though.

    I’m just saying, I haven’t whined about us trading one prospect in many years.

    I did whine about us passing up Ted Lilly for Kei Igawa however.

  165. Fredo Corleone June 16th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    “I recognize that Sabathia’s a better pitcher than Pavano. To a degree. He’s not Santana, not by a long stretch.”

    To a degree??? He’s light years closer to Santana than he is Pavano. Sabathia would be the Yankees’ best starting pitcher including a healthy Wang.

  166. Caesar June 16th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    I think it will be hard to make a deal for any frontline pitcher for at least a few weeks. Teams will want to see if they are indeed in the race, and if not they will want max value, which means close to the deadline frenzy. If the internal options bomb out, maybe they can lean on their major league scouts, whose job it is to find guys undervalued by their current organization. It seems to me this has been a strength of Cashman’s reign etc., Chacon, Small, Cairo.

    This is my list of possible guys to target. I am sure many would fail, but most would could cheap and you may catch lightning in a bottle. These are guys struggling with their current MLB team, and again, you could get most for guys like Nacchi and Hilligoss who are likely blocked at the ML level. Here are the names:
    Dave Bush
    Chris Capuano
    Rich Hill
    Paul Maholm
    Anthony Reyes
    Boof Bonser
    Jon Lieber

    Also, if the price for CC or another top starter is too high, which is likely, how about Ian Snell. He has great stuff and is on the cusp of being a household name.

    Caesar

  167. Fredo Corleone June 16th, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    “I think Cashman knows a little more about building a successful club, a mix of both young guys and vets, than any of us.”

    I imagine you’re right Dave, but since Cashman has not yet done what you’ve described above, I’d say the jury is out.

  168. J ro June 16th, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    Bluffing

  169. Fredo Corleone June 16th, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    G Love:

    How about when CJ Henry went for Bobby Abreu? Was that a kick in the nuggets or what???? (:

  170. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    I don’t think Cashman is wedded to all the prospects.

    He’s wedded to certain prospects. As every GM in baseball is. There is nothing wrong with that.

    The key is making smart deals and his record is better than average over his tenure.

    Its impossible to make a smart deal one day after you lose Wang. That’s when the vultures (the other GM’s) start circling.

    You have to play it out for a few weeks and see what happens.

    Every game the Yankees win in Wang’s slot in the rotation makes it easier for Cashman to make a deal at or around the deadline.

    I have no doubt they will acquire a pitcher by the deadline. It just won’t be right now.

    Either way, if this team can hit, they can win 3 of every 5 games. That’s .600 baseball and that’s good enough to make the playoffs.

    Right now, its up to the offense to put together a good run of offense and help out the pitching staff.

  171. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Mission 2708
    June 16th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
    G. Love: What Cashman says and what he does are not necessarily the same thing.

    Yeah. G Love, remember that before 2006 started, Bubba Crosby was set to be the everyday CF.

    Then Damon defected to the Yankees in the middle of the night, like a banana boat full of Cubans defecting the mother country.

    It was well played.

  172. Fran June 16th, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    The Yankees have a number of off days coming up in the next few weeks which means they can skip the 5th starter. Giese, or whoever they plug in) will not be making that many starts. Then hopefully Cashman will be able to come up with another starter via a trade by the end of July.

  173. whozat June 16th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    “the yankees would do anything to make sure a third didn’t happen this year.”

    So…rather than try to build a winning franchise long-term, they should have had a goal of keeping the Red Sox from winning in 2008?

  174. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    “I did whine about us passing up Ted Lilly for Kei Igawa however.”

    Agreed. Terrible move. At the time, you and I had as many MLB wins as Igawa. Lilly was the known commodity. And, he ended up being $6M cheaper than Igawa…

  175. Eugie June 16th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    I told you there would be no major trades this year. This team isn’t run by George anymore. It’s run by the two sons and they’re both learning baseball on the job.

    Hopefully they find someone not named Igawa to fill in. This way we can at least pretend to have a chance this year.

  176. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    For the people who want C.C. I want to just mention to you that Shapiro would probably do the same thing as the Twins GM did and have Boston in the mix. Why wouldnt he? We used to do it to boston and at times take the player away to ride the bench on our team. Just so he wouldnt hurt us. If you thought what Minny was asking for was rediculous. Wait till C.C. sweep stakes come. Not because he’s better. But because Boston is going to make sure as they did this winter, that we over pay for him.

    IMO,no thanks. Maybe as a free agent,5 year deal.

  177. RhapsodyInBlue June 16th, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    If it comes down to Igawa, I can go 2 innings, I just need 24 hours notice.

  178. Joe m June 16th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    Way too many GM’s on the blog who don’t know what they are talking about. It’s time for a few days away. Keep bitching people

  179. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    Please provide some evidence with your arguments – keeping in mind that hindsight is 20/20… they should have been moves that were fairly obvious at the time but Cashman still passed on them.

    there are 30 teams, each with #3 and #4 starters. that’s 60 pitchers out there that could have be traded for or were free agents.

    there were moves that could have been made.

    the flaw was an over reliance on young pitching.

    “over” is the operative word. young pitching is great, but cashman just went too far.young pitching doesn’t provide enough innings. that’s the problem even when they don’t blow out.

    sj is right. they need to play some. see where they’re at . see if they can sneak some wins and then regroup if necessary.

    the offense has to get better. if it does, that alone would be a big improvement for the team.

    sometimes teams come together when something like this happens.

    we’re all heated up because something bad has happened to out team.

    the same thing can happen to the players. if they channel it ,who knows what could happen?

    i’m saying two things:
    #1 don’t count on young pitchers so much
    #2 now that it’s been done, make the most of a bad situation, and don’t get stupid and make things worse.

  180. Mike June 16th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    He’s so stupid. SCREW THE PROSPECTS! TRADE EM’ ALL! Save Rasner, ship away Phil and Ian and enjoy CC or whoever. I can’t stand them. They are bad players. I don’t give two s**** what baseball prospectus says, I don’t care if you say he’s amazing, I don’t care if they pitch a perfect game in AAA, I WANNA WIN AND I WANNA WIN NOW! That is impossible w/ underacheiving prospects.

  181. Drive 4-5 June 16th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    I think folks should cut G. Love some slack. ANY talk of Kei Igawa returning to Yankee Stadium as anything other than a beer vendor is enough to send anyone into a fit. If Kei Igawa steps foot in Yankee Stadium as a player Brian Cashman should be ashamed of himself.

    Also, G Love 100% right about Rasner. The Yanks left him up for grabs and were just lucky nobody picked him up. Rasner was not part of a grand plan.They’re plain lucky.

    For all the talk of depth this winter, the Yanks are looking at zero palpable internal options for CMW’s injury. Our best hope is that Andy Pettitte gets more consistent, Mussina keeps pitching well, Joba continues his steady development and Rasner holds on. The Yanks still should 7 innings out of expect Andy, Moose and Joba. That’s not too bad.

  182. whozat June 16th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    “And, he ended up being $6M cheaper than Igawa…”

    Not after taxes. He’s also got a 4.76 ERA in the NL central this year. Yeah, better than Igawa…but, he’s hitting his decline phase and we’d be stuck for two more years. His walks dropped A LOT going to the NL. They’d probably be right around 4 per 9 back here in the NL East.

    Yes, Igawa has been awful. Perhaps the best move would have been to get neither of them.

  183. GreenBeret7 June 16th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    Cashman has been bringing in pieces to the puzzle since ’97 to help win games. Justice, Curtis, Clemens, Wells for a second time, Olerude, Ventura, Johnson was a major help for two years, bringing Pettitte back, Rodriguez, and that’s a partial list. All of those players had big hands in bringing the Yanks into the post season. He’s had some stinkers, too, make no mistake about that. Even still the Yanks are in the post season. The rest is up to the players to do their jobs. some have and some haven’t.

  184. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    “Its impossible to make a smart deal one day after you lose Wang. That’s when the vultures (the other GM’s) start circling.”

    Excelling point SJ. Just like when Matsui and Sheff went down. We wanted Abreu and they were asking for alot back. But Cashman waited it out and we got him for peanuts. At that time Boston fans were whinning about how they didnt go get him for that price.

  185. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    “maybe because i’m in the middle of red sox nation , but watching the red sox win two world series in the last 4 years kind of made me think the yankees would do anything to make sure a third didn’t happen this year.

    i’m not happy the cashman didn’t take this year more seriously. it’s like another red sox world championship didn’t happen.”

    I wouldn’t be happy with a GM who spent his entire time making moves based on what the the Red Sox have done either though, which (and I may be misreading you) sounds like what you are advocating.

    Thats how they ended up with Igawa. Because they felt they had to make a move because the Red Sox got Dice-K.

    Thats no way to run a team either.

  186. whozat June 16th, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    “The Yanks left him up for grabs and were just lucky nobody picked him up. Rasner was not part of a grand plan.”

    That’s not true. Coming off injury, the felt pretty confident no one’d take him. They wanted to re-sign him as soon as they could, and they told him so. They did about a DAY after they cut him. That was just roster gymnastics to protect another player from the rule 5. They had both him and Karstens in the system…you think they didn’t know as well as we do that they were both decent depth options?

  187. Boston Dave June 16th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    “If Kei Igawa steps foot in Yankee Stadium as a player Brian Cashman should be ashamed of himself.”

    The problem is, people are so easy to criticize, but don’t offer up reasonable alternatives. Or they think rushing young guys to the majors is reasonable. Or that Cleveland will trade CC to the Yanks today for a few mid-level prospects.

    Then people criticize the Yankees depth. Or that Hughes and Kennedy have been busts. Well, 4 months ago some people were saying Hughes would be better than Santana THIS season.

    Like I said, it’s amazing that the know-it-alls in here haven’t found work in the front offices across MLB.

  188. tcsports (aka kid) June 16th, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    There won’t be any trades unless it doesn’t work doing it from within. Nobody knows that until it’s tried out.

  189. Fran June 16th, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    Just saw Jorge on Channel 4 news at his fund raising dinner at the Pierre Hotel. He was asked about Wang and he said, “He’s our best pitcher and it is a big blow. But it is what it is. We have to go on and win games. Someone will have to step up in his spot and we will keep it going.”

  190. tonyb June 16th, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    Regarding Cashman’s lack of “backup” plans, I think his strategy was to stockpile the minors with excellent arms and when the “IT” hits the proverbial fan, you call up the ones that are pitching well. It is adapting on the fly, and that is exactly what you have to do to survive in any business. One of the best things I ever learned in project management was:

    Planning is invaluable, but the plan is useless.

    That has proven true for me many times in my adventures in Information Technology planning. There is no way you can plan for Wang to be gone for the season. A pitcher of his caliber is not replaceable and there can be no backup plan.

    However, because we have young arms to plug in from a strong development system, we are going to sit in a position of relative strength as opposed to being absolutely having to make a deal and getting rolled by some GM licking his chops.

  191. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    “So…rather than try to build a winning franchise long-term, they should have had a goal of keeping the Red Sox from winning in 2008?”

    absolutely.

    take the #$@%#’s down.

    i’m beginning to think i may take this rivalry a little more seriously than others.

  192. whozat June 16th, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    “Thats how they ended up with Igawa. Because they felt they had to make a move because the Red Sox got Dice-K.”

    I still don’t agree with this. If you listened to Cash at the time, he explicitly pointed out that this was a long-term project, and that they did not see him as a front-line starter. Sure, he may have been a plan-b, but I don’t think that, upon getting outbid (by 15+ million) for Matsuzaka that they thought “Crap! How can we respond to this move!” and panicked.

  193. Patrick Bateman June 16th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    “What do you call Horne, Rasner and Karstens? This is exactly what they were…backup plans for Hughes and Kennedy. Giese as well.”

    I don’t call them backup plans. I call them a bunch of inexperienced pitchers. Which is exactly what Hughes and Kennedy were.

  194. whozat June 16th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    “i’m beginning to think i may take this rivalry a little more seriously than others.”

    Given that you’d rather have them NOT win than the Yanks set themselves up for another run of sustained excellence…I’d agree.

  195. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    “Planning is invaluable, but the plan is useless.”

    i agree. it’s that haze of war thing. you have to e ready for all kinds of variables.

  196. Boston Dave June 16th, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    “i’m beginning to think i may take this rivalry a little more seriously than others.”

    randy l,

    nothing pains me more than the sox winning. i have to live through it every day living in boston. so, I’m with you on that one… even if I know that what is best for the Yanks isn’t necessarily best for my stress levels if the Sox win again.

  197. Patrick Bateman June 16th, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    Stop comparing Cashman’s deal with Abreu to this situation with Sabathia.

    Abreu was due 28M and was declining and was said to be a problem in the clubhouse. Nobody wanted him for that money because no team could take on that contract along with Lidle.

    The Bobby Abreu trade was a salary dump. CC Sabathia is a 27 year old pitcher who isn’t making 15M per year.

  198. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 16th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    I hate thunderstorms.

    makes a bad day that much worse.

  199. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    whozat-

    i think that people who always talk mostly about the future know very little about sustained athletic excellence.

    it’s a convenient way to suck in the present and get away with it.

  200. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    “#1 don’t count on young pitchers so much”

    1966 World Champion Baltimore Orioles

    Starting Pitching:

    Dave McNally – 23

    Jim Palmer – 20

    Wally Bunker – 21

    Steve Barber – 28

    1969 World Champion New York Mets

    Starting Pitching:

    Jerry Koosman – 26

    Tom Seaver – 24

    Nolan Ryan – 22

    Gary Gentry – 22

    Think these teams counted on their young pitchers too much? The Orioles swept the Dodgers who had Koufax, Drysdale, Osteen, and Podres. All battle tested veteran pitchers against a bunch of youngsters who limited the Dodgers to 3 RUNS in the entire series. Don’t count out those youngsters.

  201. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    FYI,Igawa career era was only a half era higher than dice k. He also was leading the league in strikeouts. I didnt mind the trade. What i do mind is bringing him back up after we’ve seen what he’s capable of.

  202. vinny-b June 16th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    G. Love: hey. stfu.

  203. kerouac June 16th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    If the 1,000-run offense is finally here, it will be easier for a pitcher to replace Wang because maybe he’ll get some early runs to work with. Hughes and Kennedy rarely had a margin of error in their early starts.

    It’s time for the offense to pick up the pitching staff. Boston certainly has responded to its injuries to Ortiz and Matsuzaka. Let’s see the Yankees do the same.

  204. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    Patrick,
    Abreu ended up being a salary dump. But initially they were not just dumping him. That was my point. Being patient isnt a bad thing when all the gm’s know you are in need of something. He plugged Melky out in right and proceeded to act like he didnt need a replacement. You need a poker face in their business.

  205. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    “You just can’t replace a pitcher like Chein-Ming Wang.”

    Yes you can. His name is C.C. Sabathia.

    Fire Brian Cashman.

  206. Paul V June 16th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    “Bubba Crosby is our starting center-fielder.”

  207. Brad June 16th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    The always stealth Brian Cashman will not tip his hand as to who he has in mind outside of the organization.
    The standings in the next few weeks will influence what is available.
    If the Dodgers are still spinning their wheels by then, a guess would be Derek Lowe as a rental seeing as he’ll be a free agent after 2008 and may not cost quality young arms.

  208. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    skruw you, Vinny-b… Leave G Alone !

    :x :x :x :x

  209. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    “You just can’t replace a pitcher like Chein-Ming Wang.”

    Yes you can. His name is C.C. Sabathia.

    Fire Brian Cashman.”

    C.C. is not in our farm system. Cleveland is 5 and a half games back and would be stupid to unload him now. This is not the lotery pick in the nba we’re talking about. We dont have first dibbs on him. Im sure they would prefer to dump him to an nl team first. Im also sure that we wont be the only a.l. team going after him with offers.

  210. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    pepitone-

    good point about the old days and young pitchers.

    …but in the old days young pitchers had thrown a ton by the time they got to the majors.

    they weren’t fragile the way young pitchers are today.
    without looking, i’ll bet the innings were really high for those pitching young pitchers you mentioned.

    it’s just not the same now.

  211. Global Warming June 16th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    I really hope the Yankees go after Rich Harden.

    Not throw the world for him but something reasonable. Kennedy for Harden straight up would be great.

    Yes I know he has a track record worthy of the title of Pavano but I think the Yankees would be justified on rolling the dice on talent like that.

    The Red Sox rolled the dice to a lesser extent on Becket( never pitched 200 IP b4 Red Sox) and it payed off BIG TIME.

  212. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    A reminder to visitors and patrons of the Bronx Zoo Blog:

    Don’t feed the Trolls !

    (even though I just did ;) )

  213. tonyb June 16th, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    Igawa is a perfect example proving that stats in the minors or in Japan do not tell the whole story. His stuff doesn’t translate to the majors, and I am shocked that our scouts got that so horribly wrong. I’d love to know the behind the scenes story on those internal deliberations.

  214. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    I don’t see why Alan Horne isn’t even being mentioned.

    He’s by far the most talented pitcher in AAA. He’s just coming off a very minor injury. There’s nothing wrong with giving him 2 or 3 more starts in AAA to get his feel back before AT LEAST seeing what he can do.

    He’s got four plus pitches.

    He’s 25 years old.

  215. owlnation June 16th, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Cashman is a failure.

    In any field, not just in baseball, there are ways of getting problems solved and deals done. He is a coward who lacks the manhood to negotiate. He has no more hustle at the table than Cano does at the plate.

    For this statement here alone, his sorry backside should be joining Bavasi’s on the unemployment list.

  216. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Global Warning,
    If they were going to go after an injury risk Ace. I would prefer Sheets instead. Or as iv mentioned before. Get Sheets and Harden and have them split the year. One pitcher while the other on the dl. Those 2 form 1 complete ace.

  217. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    I’m not saying it was that deliberate and that conscious, Whozat. But I really do think that the Dice-K thing did play into it a little bit. Perhaps they didn’t as much due dilligence on him as they might have.

    Everyone had pretty much said Dice-K was going to the Yankees as a foregone conclusion, and for the first time ever the Sox “out-yankeed” the Yankees for a highly sought after free agent. It had to be at least a little shocking to the Yankee FO.

  218. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    Our “scouts” are about as bad as it gets and no one should have any confidence in them whatsoever. It’s never more evident than in our VASTLY OVERRATED farm system.

    The Red Sox make our farm look absolutely retarded.

  219. GreenBeret7 June 16th, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    P. Bateman, the only people that said Aabreu was a problem in Philadelphia were the fans. You know, where 45 homers, .330 average 40 stolen bases and 120 RBI is barely acceptable. Bowa had him as a player there and said he was a great team mate, a team player and all of the young Latin players looked up to him. The Yankee fans aren’t happy unless he does face plants on the outfield walls. That would be a huge help, having him out for 4-6 weeks as a minimum, wouldn’t it. Great, he saves the team 4-5 runs a year, gets hurt and costs the 75-100. Not sure what decline you’re referring to, unless it’s because in two years he hit 30-31 homers and his career average is 21. His numbers are equal or better than the usual numbers that O’Neill put up over 7 years. I’ll take the .300 average, 20-22 homers, 110 RBI,110 Runs scored, 40 doubles and 30 steals every year. Of course, I’m easy to please.

  220. Global Warming June 16th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    I’m just saying it might be one of those medium risk high reward type of deals.

    Of course your not going to give the farm for Harden or Sheets but Kennedy and maybe a filler would be reasonable. Sheets I believe would hold a higher price tag, the guy has actually 200 inning seasons under his belt albeit the last one was 2 or 3 years ago. On the other hand Harden has never gotten to 200 and hasn’t broken 100 in 3 years.

  221. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    “The Red Sox make our farm look absolutely retarded.”

    Nice, Frank.

    You insensitive, heartless, classless jerk.

  222. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Frank,
    JOBA

    Have a good night fellas.

  223. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    S.o.S 27,

    Since when is C.C. Sabathia an injury risk? He’s never been seriously hurt.

    People were so apprehensive about Santana for the same reasons. Fans literally disected his numbers and found any excuse to not trade for him.

    Let’s keep score:

    Hughes: 2 injuries
    Kennedy: 1 injury
    Wang: 1 injury

    Sabathia/Santana: zero injuries

  224. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    “…but in the old days young pitchers had thrown a ton by the time they got to the majors.
    they weren’t fragile the way young pitchers are today.
    without looking, i’ll bet the innings were really high for those pitching young pitchers you mentioned.”

    Well, their innings were not that high. For the Orioles, here is their pitching stats:

    Dave McNally – 23; ERA 3. 16; W-13 L-6; INN: 213

    Jim Palmer – 20; ERA 3. 46; W-15 L-10; INN: 208

    Wally Bunker – 21; ERA 4. 29; W-10 L-6; INN: 142

    Steve Barber – 28; ERA 2. 30; W-10 L-5; INN: 133

    But, you are right, those pitchers were a lot tougher than they are today. It’s just that young pitchers can make a real difference if they are the right pitchers.

  225. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    Oh I said the word “retarded.”

    Get over it.

  226. MoBoy June 16th, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    Have we not learn from Igawa,Edwar Ramirez and Kennedy that AAA numbers are misleading.Giese and Rasner might be the next AAron Small.But Small started only 9 games.WE need someone to start for the next 3+ months.And replace a #2 starter not to be a #5 guy like before.

    Who cares about overrated Kennedy,overated Melky,J.B Cox,Jose Tabatha.

    We got Joba,Jackson,Melchon and Hughes as the future.A lefty starter who throws hard,gives you 200 innings,28 years old is something worth the risk not Igawa.

  227. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    Yanks: Joba

    Red Sox: Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, Papelbon, Carter, Moss, Masterson, Bowden, Lowrie….

  228. Pierce - 2008 Best Actress Academy Award June 16th, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    I think Cashman is sending a message in his comment about there being no trade market right now. I wouldn’t be surprised if he fielded some calls with preposterous trade proposals. In that case, its true then that there is no market. You have to have a buyer and a seller.

    Let the Yankees showcase some talent from the farm to give others a look at their potential.

    As to the pitching depth that the Indians have, I don’t think that would stop any club from getting more pitching. You can spin off pitching to get position players. Pitching depth is a good thing for the Yankees right now, and they had gone after a lot more in the past draft.

    The worst time to make a deal is right after something like this. Wait a bit, see if anyone can step up, see if anyone you bring up can generate interest from other clubs who have a good pitcher who may walk – like CC.

    This is the time for patience, a couple of weeks can make a big difference in how this can be handled, or it might just be enough to effectively end the season for the Yankees enough that they wait till next year. Either way, its the smarter thing to do.

  229. Global Warming June 16th, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    “Have we not learn from Igawa,Edwar Ramirez and Kennedy that AAA numbers are misleading.Giese and Rasner might be the next AAron Small.But Small started only 9 games.WE need someone to start for the next 3+ months.And replace a #2 starter not to be a #5 guy like before.

    Who cares about overrated Kennedy,overated Melky,J.B Cox,Jose Tabatha.

    We got Joba,Jackson,Melchon and Hughes as the future.A lefty starter who throws hard,gives you 200 innings,28 years old is something worth the risk not Igawa.”

    Welcome to the club.

    We’ve only been saying this for a year now. Too bad the Yankees will have to settle for the lesser talent in Sabathia.

  230. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    ” It’s just that young pitchers can make a real difference if they are the right pitchers.”

    well, we all like joba, so i won’t argue with you there.

  231. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    What about overrated Hughes? To me, he’s been the biggest disappointment by far. A can’t miss Ace the a plus 93 mph fastball, a plus devestating curve, plus-plus command, and a potential plus changeup.

    In reality, he sits at 89-90mph with a pedestrian curve and no third pitch.

    Same scouts who called him a can’t miss Ace now have his ceiling as a # 3 starter.

  232. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    Holy crap…

  233. GreenBeret7 June 16th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    For those that were talking about the 1966 Baltimore pitching staff, keep in mind that Palmer and Bunker missed huge portions of the next two seasons, with, you guessed it, arm problems, and Barber also missed a large part of those seasons and had been overworked since the age of 18 while pitching in the majors. Bunker and Barber were never the same again, just to mention three of the kids on that team.

  234. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    I have no class. I have no class.

    I am a troll. I am a troll.

    I have no life. I have no life.

  235. randy l, June 16th, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    frank-

    let me be frank about this.

    pedroia is hitting .250

  236. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    Ugh. Over run with trollery. Out.

  237. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    “Pitching depth is a good thing for the Yankees right now, and they had gone after a lot more in the past draft.”

    Every single pitcher the Yankees have with ANY potential to be an impact starter is either injured or having/has already had T.J. surgery.

    And that’s what you get for drafting high risk/high reward. So far, the risk has outweighed the reward BIG TIME.

    Risk: Humberto Sanchez, Brackman, Melancon, Cox, Horne all have had T.J surgery and haven’t pitched one inning in the Bronx

    Reward: Joba, so far

  238. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    Frank
    June 16th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
    Yanks: Joba

    Red Sox: Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, Papelbon, Carter, Moss, Masterson, Bowden, Lowrie….

    Ummmm….

    Yanks: Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Bern Baby Bern, Cano, Wang, Joba, and so many more.

    ‘night all Lohud regulars !

  239. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 7:18 pm

    let’s go Phillies!
    atta boy Rollins

  240. tcsports (aka kid) June 16th, 2008 at 7:18 pm

    Yanks: Joba

    Red Sox: losing 1-0 behind a Jimmy Rollins homer and Phils still threatening.

  241. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    Was Pedroia ROY or not?

    I can’t remember. What’s Cano batting?

    Nevermind the other dozen Red Sox prospects I mentioned. Their farm and scouting system is light years ahead of the Yankees.

    I didn’t make it that way, that’s just the way it is. Don’t blame me.

  242. Drive 4-5 June 16th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    Boston Dave,

    ““If Kei Igawa steps foot in Yankee Stadium as a player Brian Cashman should be ashamed of himself.”

    The problem is, people are so easy to criticize, but don’t offer up reasonable alternatives.”

    Sorry, but I don’t get paid millions to come up with the alternatives. But Brian Cashman does and it’s his responsibility to do exactly that.

    Igawa is one of the biggest mistakes in Yankee history and he’s taking up a spot on the 40 man roster. Both those facts need to be addressed by Brian Cashman. Suggesting that he may be an alternative to CMW is unacceptable to most reasonable people.

  243. pat June 16th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    1-0 . Go Phillies.

  244. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:21 pm

    Ummmm….

    Yanks: Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Bern Baby Bern, Cano, Wang, Joba, and so many more.

    Like most Yankees fans. Living in the past.

    The Red Sox farm system has trumped yours by drafting solid, high end players who don’t require 3 or 4 surgeries before potentially playing baseball.

  245. pat June 16th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    3-0 Phils

  246. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    3-0 now

  247. pat June 16th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Bartolo looks confused!

  248. tcsports (aka kid) June 16th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Frank:

    Yanks: Joba

    Red Sox: losing 3-0 behind homers by Rollins and Howard.

  249. Pierce - 2008 Best Actress Academy Award June 16th, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    Hmmm. I know Igawa is homesick. I wonder if the Yankees can get him to pitch his mind out for the remaining part of this year by telling him if you pitch really well you can go home. :twisted:

  250. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    “The Red Sox farm system has trumped yours by drafting solid, high end players”

    Ooooooohhhhhh
    Shouldn’t you be watching the game now? Your team is down 3 runs
    ;)

  251. Mark (Free Brett Campaign) June 16th, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    Well looking at the box score it looks like CJ Henry and Francicso Cervelli are both playing their first games of the year tonight.

  252. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    Colon really should think about cutting down on the carbs

  253. jennifer- I got your back Girardi June 16th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    So is everyone watching the Phillies game. The guy that some were crying that we didn’t get is pitching and quite well I might add. Check it out!

  254. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    “Sorry, but I don’t get paid millions to come up with the alternatives. But Brian Cashman does and it’s his responsibility to do exactly that.

    Igawa is one of the biggest mistakes in Yankee history and he’s taking up a spot on the 40 man roster. Both those facts need to be addressed by Brian Cashman. Suggesting that he may be an alternative to CMW is unacceptable to most reasonable people.”

    100 % accurate. Brian Cashman is a bad general manager. That’s all there is to it. Evidenced in the way this team has consistantly gotten worse every season. Not better.

  255. Drive 4-5 June 16th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Frank,

    Ummmmmmm…. where is Clay “Someonestolemylaptop” Bucholz? Where has Craig “$4.5milbonusbaby” Hansen been the last 2 years?

  256. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Don’t feed the Red Sox troll, lol.

    They bite harder when fed.

  257. jennifer- I got your back Girardi June 16th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Never mind scrolled up and see everyone is watching. :)

  258. tcsports (aka kid) June 16th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Frank do you agree that Fartolo stinks?

  259. jennifer- I got your back Girardi June 16th, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    Kei Igawa is the second guy! Please Cash NO!!

    Listen to Mike and Dog Cash was on.

  260. 27 this year June 16th, 2008 at 7:27 pm

    Frank, 26-2

  261. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:27 pm

    The Red Sox are losing?

    Stop the presses. You know, they may acutally lose 60 or more games!

    You can’t be serious….

  262. jennifer- I got your back Girardi June 16th, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    Frank-

    Bostondirtdogs.com

    Maybe someone over there cares what you think.

  263. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    Jennifer, repeat after me:-

    “Bubba Crosby is our starting center fielder”

    :)

  264. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    “Frank do you agree that Fartolo stinks?”

    Absolutely. I don’t think anyone thought he would pitch more than a few starts before he got severely roughed up or injured. He’s just a rental. There’s really no risk. He’s a luxury and won a few games for us so it was a plus.

  265. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    GreenBeret7 -

    Wally Bunker was never the same after the 1964 season, so he was already on the downslope.

    Jim Palmer did have arm problems and sat out 1968. He came back in 1969 and had a Hall of Fame career.

    Dave McNally never really did have an off year. He was solid throughout his career.

    Steve Barber was a veteran and ended up traded after the 1968 season.

    So, it was a sort of mixed bag, but they did win a championship with a lot of young arms. Moreover, as you could see in my previous post, other than McNally, they were really not overused. The arm problems were for other reasons than overwork.

  266. miggs June 16th, 2008 at 7:30 pm

    Wow its nuts in here today.

    Back away from the ledges people. You’d think Shawne Merriman just went end to end in the Yankees dugout breaking everyone’s legs with a lead pipe.

    Wang pitches once every 5 games. In my opinion, A Rod and Posada were bigger losses. Keep in mind, I’m a huge Wang fan. I think he’s our best starter.

    Some of the names tossed about on here are comical. Jake Peavy? Lincecum? Harden?

    Also, a lot of these guys in the minors just aren’t ready. Horne is still building arm strength and coming off an injury. Marquez has been absolutely awful until his last 2-3 starts. McCutcheon was getting lit up at AAA until his last start. None of these are immediate options.

    How about giving Dan Giese a shot? Maybe go get Freddy Garcia in a month.

    The Red Sox have lost Schilling, Dice-K, Buchholz from their staff. Did they sell the farm for Joe Blanton? No, they brought up Masterson, they got Colon. Sorry, but they are a model franchise right now and it kills me to say that. They also lost Big Papi, and Manny missed a few games, as well as Elsbury and Drew. They didn’t seem to miss a beat.

    You don’t panic now. You sit tight and try some guys out. Then you try some other guys out if they fail. Around mid-July, you examine the trade market. Until then, you play the hand you were dealt.

  267. jennifer- I got your back Girardi June 16th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    Angel

    I realize that, he can’t say yeah I need to get a front line starter. But just hearing the name Kei and starter for the Yankees makes me sick.

  268. Coach Jay23 June 16th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    As we all know there is no way that every single one of the young arms we have will become above average starters in the MLB, so I dont understand why Cashman doesnt just talk to people in the organization and choice your top 2-3 that they really like and keep them and make the others available for trades. I think the Yanks can wait on CC and if Clv wants to trade him that become a player if not sign him in the off-season. As far as now maybe the Yanks call Houston and see what it takes to get Roy Oswalt who has said he would open a trade. Or call Pitt and see what they want for Duke and Nady. The Yankees have the $$$ to make a trade for a pitcher and take on a roll player with a contract from a small market team. Also, Randy Wolf from the Padres could be someone they will try to get for cheap. I dont like it but its an easy option

  269. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    I disagree on Horne. I know he needs to build up arm strength but it should only take two or three starts.

    He’s the most talented pitcher you have in AAA.

    Piece together a start or two with Geise. Then go to Horne. Kennedy should be back to round out the rotation soon after that.

  270. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 7:34 pm

    I know, I know.

    I was hoping it would help lessen the pain of hearing that name at all. :D

  271. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 7:34 pm

    hhhmmm..anyone else thinking Cole Hamels is kinda cute? I do think he needs to gain a couple of pounds though

  272. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    “Or call Pitt and see what they want for Duke and Nady”

    You mean Zach Dukes??? Oh my God.

  273. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    and maybe get a haircut

  274. jennifer- I got your back Girardi June 16th, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    Angel, nothing can lessen the pain of hearing the name Kei Igawa, except Kei Igawa has quit baseball and is on a plane back to Japan.

  275. BBB June 16th, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    Go Phillies! Pat the Bat is my boy.

  276. dana June 16th, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    Stop the hysterics people & get a grip!! The last thing any fan of the Yankees should want is for Cashman to make a panic trade.

  277. jennifer- I got your back Girardi June 16th, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    S.A.- No pain..no gain

    Colon has a pound or a 100 he can spare.

  278. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    jennifer-lol…definitely. Colon’s neck fat alone should be enough

  279. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    I actually think Bartolo has gained weight since the start of the season.

  280. BBB June 16th, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    S.A. – Hamels is kinda cute but I prefer Utley or Burrell, who looks like a grown version of Zack Morris from Saved by the Bell, lol.

  281. miggs June 16th, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    Jennifer-

    you make some of the most uneducated statements on this blog.

  282. Drive 4-5 June 16th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    The Yankees, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Minnesota, Chicago White Sox,California Angels, Texas and Oakland A’s are all better road teams than Boston. They are hard to beat in Fenway, but very,very beatable on the road. That’s hardly a “model franchise”.

    The Red sox are following the Yankee’s lead, not the other way around. They won in ’04 with only 3 players that came up frpm their system. Last year, they won with a Ricky Ledee- like performance from Ellsbury.

  283. Drive 4-5 June 16th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    The Yankees, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Minnesota, Chicago White Sox,California Angels, Texas and Oakland A’s are all better road teams than Boston. They are hard to beat in Fenway, but very,very beatable on the road. That’s hardly a “model franchise”.

    The Red sox are following the Yankee’s lead, not the other way around. They won in ’04 with only 3 players that came up frpm their system. Last year, they won with a Ricky Ledee- like performance from Ellsbury.

  284. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Utley is a def cutie!

    My friend (she’s a Mets fan) calls him Chase Ugly. :(

  285. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Geez Miggs, and people tell me that I’m rude on here.

  286. Dan June 16th, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    What is the number of starts Wang would miss if he came back on Sept. 1? Does between 13 and 14 sound right?

  287. pat June 16th, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    Yanks got 56 wins from the top 5 starters last year Wang(19), Pettite (15), Mussina (11), Clemens(6) and Hughes(5).

    This year Mussina, Wang, Pettitte and Rasner have 27 so far.

    This would be a good year for Moose to have his first 20 win season and all will be fine. :smile:

  288. myrtlebeachfan June 16th, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    I like Freddy Garcia. Give him 6 million. He can pitch pretty well and maybe he’s got enough left in the tank and he’s ready to prove himself again.

    If it doesn’t work out, oh well. If it does, the return could be great. It’s like the Red Sox gamble on Colon, except Colon used to be a stud whereas Garcia was always decent, but never amazing.

  289. Hendo June 16th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    while I don’t expect a move until July, of course Ca$h has to say that there’s no trade market. He can’t go crawling to other teams desperately.

  290. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    Well he’s in as much of Siberia as he can get without actually being there, lol. But I hear you.

    Hopefully that was Cashman’s version of a poker face.

  291. Don Vito A. Bellamo June 16th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    We are but 5 mere games in the loss column back of the BoSux…we will pass those bums very soon, even without Wang….their trolls can say all they want…but the wheels have been flying off their wagon all year and it’s about time for the CRASH ! Long live the Yankees…Let the BoSux and their trolls eat paste ! :-)

  292. Mark (Free Brett Campaign) June 16th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    Jeff Karstens 3 runs in the first inning tonight.

  293. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 7:44 pm

    People people please….

    Bronson Arroyo will save us.

    :P

  294. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    The way to fix this team:

    1. Press to trade for Matt Holliday….not C.C… as the Rockies continue to fall in the standings. Melky Cabrera, Robinson Cano, Horne/Kennedy/Hughes (whichever they want). Bring up Gardner (he deserves it).

    2. Sign Teixeira in the offseason at any cost (it’s the Yankees). Sign Juan Cruz for the bullpen. And if you really don’t want Alberto Gonzalez at 2nd long term, Mark Reynolds is available.

    Start thinking about next season:

    Wang, Joba, Pettitte (hopefully), and whoever is left out of Hughes/Kennedy/Horne.

    Infield of Tex, Alberto (or Reynolds), Jeter, A-Rod

    Outfield of Holliday, Gardner, Damon… Matsui DH.

  295. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    Did they mention Bronson Arroyo today?

  296. Doreen June 16th, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    How does Gardner “deserve” it? Just curious.

  297. miggs June 16th, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    Jennifer that wasn’t me…. it was an impersonator.

    Pete we need registration !!!!!

  298. MoBoy June 16th, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    Arroyo not injuried and actually played more then 1 year in the AL.Sorry thats better then what Hughes,Wang and Igawa can give you now.And everybody else might end up being rushed to fast.Like Horne and McCutcheon.WE need a stater not a prospect with not at least 1 year of AAA expirence and Journey men.

    REmember Horne and McCutcheon are not really do good in AAA and are injuried.Why bring them up.

  299. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    Angel-Fatcessa mentioned him a few times today, but they spent most of the day on golf.

    I’m expecting a big Bronson Arroyo day tomorrow from the big guy

  300. miggs June 16th, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    The way to fix this team:

    “1. Press to trade for Matt Holliday….not C.C… as the Rockies continue to fall in the standings. Melky Cabrera, Robinson Cano, Horne/Kennedy/Hughes (whichever they want). Bring up Gardner (he deserves it).

    2. Sign Teixeira in the offseason at any cost (it’s the Yankees). Sign Juan Cruz for the bullpen. And if you really don’t want Alberto Gonzalez at 2nd long term, Mark Reynolds is available.”

    These 2 moves will set the franchise back 5 years minimum.

  301. miggs June 16th, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    I’m heading to the game Saturday, any interest in a meet-up for anyone going?

  302. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    Yeah, they won’t have golf to distract them from their Bronson Arroyo or Bust mission.

  303. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    How does Gardner “deserve” it? Just curious.

    I personally believe he can be a very good player. He’s not an all-star but has really come into his own and will add a much better dynamic at the bottom of the order.

    With Gardner batting 9th and Damon leading off..you’ve got 2 huge on-base guys that can both steal bases almost at will.

    Speed is something the Yankees lack. Garnder is just about as good in CF as Melky minus his arm. You lose 12 HRs a year but then again I have Matt Holliday in this scenario so that’s not really a problem.

  304. Mark (Free Brett Campaign) June 16th, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    I am probably the biggest pro Gardner guy here. Look at my name lol.

    His AAA numbers show that he deserves a call-up.

    291 average this year, but an obp of 404. Along with 9 triples and 25 stoles bases.

  305. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    “These 2 moves will set the franchise back 5 years minimum.”

    Sure they will. Hence the lack of ANY explanation.

    Mark Teixeira is not Jason Giambi, if his bat declines you still have his defense. Hes a staple at first base for the next 7 years.

    Matt Holliday is 29 years old. And you keep Jackson who hopfully can be part of that outfield once Damon leaves.

  306. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    No offense to Melky… but if he continues with his current numbers he should not be around after the All-Star break.

    Gardner will strike out but will be on base FAR MORE than Melky and once he’s on first base… you may as well give him second.

  307. Doreen June 16th, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    I understand that Gardner has speed, and that’s certainly nice. But no one really knows if he’d be able to get on base enough at the major league level to make that speed really valuable. I’m not saying he won’t at some point be a good ML player, but I don’t think he’s done anything to “deserve” a spot right now.

    Anyway all that really has to happen right now is to slot someone in Wang’s spot for a while and see what shakes out. Like SJ44 said, they only need to win on average 3 of every 5 games. No need to overreact.

  308. YankeesTech June 16th, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    wow, I can’t stand reading some of the crap on here. cashman is a idiot, Hughes is a bust at the age of 22….

    I know realize why most people hate yankee fans.

  309. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    Gardner’s OBP would have to drop nearly 100 points to reach Melky Cabrera status.

    Remember the Yankees are a team built around getting on base.

  310. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Hughes will never be the #1 people thought he would be.

    If you don’t know that by now you haven’t been paying attention.

    He could be a nice middle to back-end starter. All depends on what you think a bust is.

  311. Mark (Free Brett Campaign) June 16th, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Doreen- What numbers does a player have to put up for you to feel he should get a chance?

  312. BBB June 16th, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    “Press to trade for Matt Holliday”

    Aren’t Holliday’s numbers away from Coors rather pedestrian? I’ll pass. I’d rather trade for Atkins and move him to 1st…not that I necessarily want to do that, but it speaks well to how much I dont want Holliday.

    As for Gardner, my only reservation with him in the past was that he wouldn’t get on base enough to put his speed to good use, but he has allayed those fears this year by posting an over-.400 OBP in the minors. Obviously it won’t be as high in the majors but as long as he can get on with, say, Jimmy Rollins frequency or better, he can help the team. I think it’s time to give him a chance too. With Wang out, every last hit and total base counts even more than normal.

  313. B. B. June 16th, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    If George were still in charge they would have Santana in pinstripes and damn the cost.

    Just thinking out loud here but what if the salary dump this off season isn’t replaced with comparable signings of new talent.

    Could all of the front office’s maneuvering be designed to have as it’s first priority to create a better financial bottom line in order to sell the team while it is at it’s highest dollar value? Or at the very least just make more money for ownership?

  314. Frank June 16th, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    Holliday has an .809 OPS away total for the last three years. But remember, Yankee Stadium isn’t exactly a pitcher’s park.

    He’s a 1.361 OPS at Yankee Stadium over that same span (small sample). I would personally take my chances.

    As far as Gardner… again I think everyone is forgetting he’ll probably bat 9th in front of Damon. That’s a very dynamic part of the lineup.

  315. dana June 16th, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    All I have to say is thank god Frank doesn’t run the Yankees.

  316. Matt June 16th, 2008 at 8:40 pm

    Remember back in 2004 we had our #2 starter Kevin Brown out for most of the middle of the season and Mussina out for the entire stretch run, while Vazquez was pitching to the tune of a 5.00+ ERA in the 2nd half? Yet we filled holes with guys like Lieber and El Duque, serviceable guys who wouldn’t light up the radar gun but who got outs and kept us in games so our thunderous offense could come back.

    Wang is a great pitcher. However, we can and will make the playoffs without him. Like Pete said, we only need a #5 starter 4 times pretty much until the trade deadline. Mussina, Chamberlain, Pettitte, Rasner. That’ll get them through those games with a record well over .500, especially with the offense healthy and the bullpen pitching well.

    The only difference not having Wang makes is probably the division vs. the wild card. Losing Wang probably relegates us to the wild card, but he’ll be back in time for September and the playoffs. Imagine having a rotation in the first round of Wang, Pettitte, and Chamberlain. They could ride that pretty far into the playoffs. The concern now is getting him healthy. The team is good enough to win without him, and Hughes and Kennedy will be back inbetween. If Hughes can pitch like he did towards the end of last year, they will have a solid 5 until he gets back. There is so much depth on this team, whether in the lineup, the bullpen, or the rotation, that they can weather the storm and still make it to the playoffs, with all their guys coming back healthy just in time to make a run at it.

  317. Jorge Steinbrenner (the long lost third brother) June 16th, 2008 at 8:50 pm

    It’s amazing how little the crowd that just wants to go out and trade for Sabathia believes in the team they claim to be a fan of. There’s no belief that this team can actually pull it together and rise to a new level, not to mention the continued belief that we’d win the World Series if we could just get that ONE GUY.

    we chased that in the 80′s. we chased it this decade. every time you thought you found the guy, you saw the hole was then somewhere else.

    If I was Brian Cashman, I’d start with Dan Giese. I’d give Giese enough time to either suceeed or fail that Ian Kennedy actually gets more than one AAA start. IPK continues to be option #2. Following that, you monitor the AAA guys and you do look at lesser-priced guys to fill the role. You don’t put Kei Igawa or Jeff “I like fly balls” Karstens anywhere near the rotation.

    If the Twins are out of it, and you need to fill innings, I will again throw out my probably-will-be-laughed-at Livan Hernandez idea.

  318. yanksince57 - all hail the igawalbatross June 16th, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    it is absolutely amazing seeing the major mood swings and desperate moves desired on this blog! if anyone thinks that what cashman says to 2 “special” radio guys is reality, than perhaps i can finally move this bridge in my back yard, but i count at least 9 internal options to replace cmw’s innings. first, give giese a shot. have kei start but on a short leash. allow karstens, horne, mccutchen, marquez and white chances to show or blow. hughes and kennedy aren’t dead and will be back this year. don’t cry about the 40 man roster as we have several 60 day options available and we can always dfa hawkins, traber and stewart. cashman didn’t trade for santana for nearly the exact same reasons he won’t trade for sabathia. i see him making his usual stealthy moves instead, probably including a pitcher or 2 never even named here. and i refuse to obsess about the offseason until halloween arrives :) as a fan since 1957, let me advise us all to go with the flow and admit we don’t know.

  319. SoxGittinSmokedTonite June 16th, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    Here’s an idea….SELL!!! For the first time ever….lets be the team that gets a sick haul for aging vets we don’t need anymore. Damon, Abreu, Matsui, Moose, Andy, Farns, Hawkins…..let the bidding begin!! at the same time, forget the CC trades and offer Kennedy, Ohlendorf and Chris Britton for Zach Greinke. Put another package together for Matt Cain, Sanchez or Kuo. Lets get young and build a team to win the next decade…..not the first game of the playoffs only!!

  320. KC June 16th, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    This is the same crap you hear from all GM’s . Ask Cashman
    then why were there not 1 but 2 Yankee scouts at the Indians game scouting CC .

    Hank isn’t going to let that happen if the Yankees finish second to Boston he will lose his mind and when that happens somebody will be fired

  321. KC June 16th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    I agree with maybe this is the year that we do sell .
    Look for what teams need Cleveland needs a DH they are only
    6 games out maybe trade them Matsui or Giambi for some prospects .
    St louis is looking for pitching Moose prospects and so on and continue to reload the system.

    Then in the off season hit the free agent market hard
    AJ Burnett come to mind .

    I figure that who ever trades for CC most likely will work out a contract prior to trade being made.

  322. BrnxBmrs1 June 16th, 2008 at 11:43 pm

    I agree with that philosophy as well. Why should WE always be the team that buys the expensive, aging, former good players and gives up the cheap, enthusiastic kids with top potential?

  323. Toby K. June 17th, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    O.K. so we need a starter. Forget C.C., I would honestly rather trade for Rich Harden, but only if the price is right, meaning it falls, ala Bobby Abreu. Maybe we could somehow pull of some craziness and get Felix Hernandez and Ichiro from the M’s rookie GM for, say the whole freakin farm, they can have ‘em all. Hughes, Kennedy, Horne, Melky, Gardner, Tabata, Marquez, Robertson, Ohlendorf, EVERYONE! It’ll never happen, but I’d do it in a second.

  324. BrnxBmrs1 June 19th, 2008 at 9:50 am

    I love guys like FRANK who come onto the Yankees board and make assessments like they have a clue what they are talking about. Here’s one he said….”Hughes will never be the #1 people thought…and if you think differently you haven’t been paying attention”. Well Frank…I have been paying attention and I can state the obvious…Phil Hughes is 21 YEARS OLD!! Go look at the back of about 95% of stud pitchers baseball cards and tell me how good their stats were at that age…if they even had the talent enough to BE in the bigs. If they were good at first, they took a dive after the league saw them a few times…THEN one year their stats turned around. NOBODY, especially a SUX fan…can judge this kid after just a handful of starts. It’s baseball common sense.

    Here is another one for you….Pedroia is highly overrated. This midget is hitting all of .270 (AFTER a huge last few days) doesn’t walk, has average speed at best and whines like a 13 year old girl at the mall at every pitch that doesn’t go his way. Cano has been twice the player Pedroia is and will be going forward. Compare the stats.

    Here’s one more for you….if you think Masterbateson is going to be anything but a #4-5 starter, you’re nuts! The kid is a side-winding 88 mph pitcher with a ton of run support. His stuff is nothing special at all. In fact, the best pitcher on your staff is Lester right now. Beckett is money in the playoffs, but in the regular season he scares nobody!! Colon is awful. Dice-K is a walk machine. Buckholtz was a bust. Wakefield? Only so many times you can run a one-trick pony out before he gets cranked. Shilling has BEEN done. Only his ego keeps him from retiring.

    Worry about the Red Sux instead of our Yankees. OH…and make sure you cut that price tag off of your Boston jersey…it’s sticking out the back…just like everyone else in “Idiot Nation”. (established in 2004)

  325. Wilbur Frangione March 12th, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Hi – It’s good to find such topical stuff on the Internet as I have been able to fiind here. I agree with much of what is written here and I’ll be coming back to this site again. Thanks again for posting such great reading material!!


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