Waiting for news on Wang
-
- June
- 16
Yesterday was only the second time since he turned professional that Chien-Ming Wang ran the bases and as far as I know, the second time since high school. The irony? The run he scored was the first in something like 10 years.
Pitchers with American League organizations don’t pick up a bat in the minor leagues. Then MLB throws them out there for nine interleague games. It doesn’t make much sense.
“We run all the time,” Mike Mussina said. “But we run in straight lines on the outfield grass. It’s not the same.”
Mussina mentioned that the Yankee pitchers had taken BP but not practiced running the bases. Would that have helped? Probably not. Why risk injury in practice? Wang just caught a bad break.
I had been kidding him for several days that he was going to hit a home run yesterday because he had a few in BP. “I might not swing,” he said. “I’ll just watch.”
He probably wishes he did.
No words yet on when the Yankees will reveal the extent of Wang’s injury. But based on what was learned in the clubhouse and through other sources, it doesn’t look good. Getting on a flight home now but when I get the news, I’ll post it here.
This entry was posted
on Monday, June 16th, 2008 at 6:58 am by Peter Abraham.
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Pete, I’m out here for the summer in Tokyo and without your blog there’s no way I’d be getting my Yank fix. Wang is well known out here in Japan too. Here’s hoping he returns this season. If not, I expect Cashman already knows what he’s gonna do. I agree with your thoughts – make Geise a starter.
what a joke.
CM got off on the Wang foot?
I know asians are bad drivers, but I didn’t know they were also bad runners.
Torre vigil continues – lost 5 in a row, and the dodgers are 7 games below .500
We should just have our pitchers stand there and not swing. I was worried on Friday with Joba, but turns out to be Wang that got hurt.
It’s not worth the risk.
Pete,THANKS.
God bless WANG!!!
GO YANKEE…..
GO WANG…....
You know, Pete, Wang was on base only because he failed to put down a good bunt, and yet the bunt wasn’t bad enough to be a double play.
Sometimes things just happen.
I don’t like interleague play for several reasons, but one of them is, because I’m an AL fan primarily, I don’t like the unfamiliar position in which the pitchers are placed. All you’re hoping for is that they don’t get hurt. As was pointed out by Girardi on that “Joe Girardi Show” on YES, even swinging and missing by a pitcher can be dicey. And taking BP for a while before interleague games is not the same as having played on offense every start.
Realistically, you can’t just have your pitchers stand at the plate and take 3 strikes, unless the situation allows it, of course. The idea is still to score runs and be offensively productive with the the goal of actually winning a game. Also, realistically, you can’t have a pitcher not slide or run on the basepaths. And even if you could, these are competitive athletes with a desire to do well whatever situation they’re in, so even if you TELL them not to do something, instincts will take over.
I’m hoping against hope that it’s not a season-ending injury; but even if not, it’s certain that we won’t be seeing Wang pitch for at least a couple, 2-3 weeks, from the looks of things.
PL –
My inclination is to say the pitchers shouldn’t swing, but then your team is literally giving up an out every time the pitchers spot comes up, which is inherently unfair.
It’s surprising to me that the AL has done so well in interleague play, but I’d be interested to know, what’s the record of the AL when playing in NL parks? Are they still as dominant?
Frankly, I don’t see the downside of just having a DH in all interleague games no matter where the home field is.
crap.
the price for C.C. Sabathia will be too high.
I rather call up clemens then trade multiple players for CC.
Can you ask Meachem if when he woke this morning there was a horses head next to him?
fat free…. you have to be kidding.
Dear Montero, how could you even write that as a joke?
give me a break, torre’s not getting fired. mc court and the dodgers dont operate that way.
When does RObertson get a call to fill the hole in the pen?
bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Wow… Great column I just read, talking about the complete 180 that Sox fans have done (and become) since Oct. 2004.
Not to go all Trisha (anti-Sox) on y’all. But its a funny read.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/bob_ford/20080616_Bob_Ford_Red_Sox_Nation_Scourge_on_the_country.html
Do you know what Cleveland really needs? Kyle Farnsworth is what they need. And, and, and LaTroy Hawkins! Yeah, that’s the ticket!
Seriously, I was against trading Robbie for CC and probably still am, but this makes it much more attractive than it was when i woke up yesterday morning.
on a lighter note…
Has anyone watched the Yankees on Deck videos they have on the Yes website now, with Mo and Jorge playing ‘How well do you know your teamamte’?
I’d put the link but everytime I link something it gets blocked.
Just go to the Yesnetwork site and click on Yankees. It’s on the front page.
Very cute!!
put it on the wrong thread:
i say go with giese on sunday, meantime karstens will get 2 more starts at scranton, and if he’s healthy, he becomes plan b. if that doesnt work out, kennedy will be ready to become plan c. and theres still patterson, horne and others. this is why we’ve been building up all this pitching depth. whoever it is, the offense will have to support the guy with some runs.
i say we can fill wang’s spot from within.
Great article bronxbomber – thanks for the tip.
Even when the Patriots win – you can sometimes hear those fans chant YANKEES SUCK
(no offense to our P-fan Blogfather of course)
YanksAngel –
I saw that! Do Jorge and Mo do it on every episode? It was really fun and light-hearted.
“I’m hoping against hope that it’s not a season-ending injury; but even if not, it’s certain that we won’t be seeing Wang pitch for at least a couple, 2-3 weeks, from the looks of things.”
I’ll sign up for 2-3 weeks in a heartbeat Doreen.
I don’t know Doreen. That’s the first time I saw it.
Jorge forgot he can count to 5 in English
I know people are afraid to replace Wang with Kennedy, but how about the following scenario:
Say Wang is out for 2-3 months..Yankees sign Freddy Garcia and in 1-2 more weeks Kennedy is ready to pitch..I say let Dan Geise at least TRY and start in the majors (or replace Geise with McCutchen, Horne, Marquez, etc.) and if he (or they) are immediate failures, try your luck with Garcia…We all know that Kennedy has a great look to him but hasn’t found his niche this year..This option would give us a bunch of options while spending money only on Garcia and not trading away the farm (and possibly Cano, Hughes, Melky, etc) for C.C. Sabathia.
I know it takes good talent to trade for good talent (Sabathia’s a Cy Young winner, after all), but I don’t want the Yankees to go into an extreme defensive mode by trading away Cano or any other top player..If Melky is traded, Gardner could replace him easily enough, but do we really awent Alberto Gonzalez as our starting 2nd baseman?
In short: Take your chances with the 5-6 guys you already have as well as Freddy Garcia/Randy Wolf..
No giant future-killing trades.
Alright, that’s it. I’m done rambling.
sunny615 nice job on the Robertson link I almost missed it.
YanksAngel –
THAT was absolutely hysterical! Oh, yeah, English.
Russell NY –
Until the actual news comes out, I’m gonna be a cockeyed optimist and stick to the 2-3 weeks.
You can forget about Freddy Garcia he right now is topping out at 85 mph and he won’t sign until late July and would require after signing atleast a month and a half in minor league ball to work up his arm strength. At the end your getting a guy that won’t top over 92 mph in September.
IMO, if Wang is out for the season, as is being speculated, you either get a guy who can be a front of the rotation guy (Sabathia, Harden, Sheets… maybe an Aaron Cook or Chris Young or Matt Cain, none of whom are probably available) or dont bother.
Wolf is injury prone, but only gives you around league average when on the mound.
will it cost more for Harden than for Wolf? most assuredly, but while he’s just as injury prone, at least he’s a difference maker on the mound when healthy.
man, this waiting is killing me.
fat free, you’re an idiot. Keep your stupid jokes and ethnic stereotype comments to yourself. Fans come here to read about the Yankees and baseball news. Wang just went out with a serious injury and could be out for the season. This is a big deal to real Yankee fans. Show some respect for this unfortunate situation.
“man, this waiting is killing me.”
and it’s going to be a while today, i would imagine, before any new info is released.
and i have a feeling that even when they do release info, we’re still not really going to know much.
if Cashman knows Wang is going to be out for an extended period of time, he’s certainly not going to be forthright with that info… bc then even if he wants to make a deal, teams are going to hold out for a complete ransom knowing what kind of position he’s in.
BRING
BACK
BOOMER!
(kidding)
if Cashman knows Wang is going to be out for an extended period of time, he’s certainly not going to be forthright with that info… bc then even if he wants to make a deal, teams are going to hold out for a complete ransom knowing what kind of position he’s in.
Good point..But they still usually give some information. How else would we have heard the words “season-ending surgery” millions of times if every general manager was afraid of releasing too much info?
YanksAngel and Doreen
The Jorge/Mo thing is a huge hit in our house. They do it every week and some of them are hysterical.
The funny banter between them on the “Would Jorge take the last cookie from the plate” question is well worth a watch if you can find a video of it.
if Interleague play is to continue, then BOTH teams need to utilize the DH.
problem solved.
end of story.
You know what the old decrepit Warner Wolfe said this morning;
“Wang hurt his foot running the bases because American league pitchers don’t know how to run the bases, you never see a National Leauge pitcher get hurt running the bases, the American League should get rid of the dh.
Um yeah great logic, we should however get rid of interleague, but that is another story for another day.
“How else would we have heard the words “season-ending surgery†millions of times if every general manager was afraid of releasing too much info?”
people undercutting the GM’s authority by going public with private info, or beat-writers going out on a limb to speculate for the chance they actually get it right.
i know there’s a bunch of karsten haters on this board, but i think he’s going to help us out of this situation. there were also a ton of rasner haters here and that worked out pretty good. karstens has the most mlb experience of our minor league guys, he’s around the same age as rasner and he deserves a shot. he got off to to a bad start after coming back from his latest injury, but he pitched great last wednesday and i think he’s pitching for scranton tonight. that puts him right in line to replace wang on saturday or take one more start at scranton while they give giese a shot. he’s helped us out of a jam before and i think he can be the guy to fill this hole if its not a season ending injury.
wow.
david wells is unsigned?
I’m surprised. he did quite well last year with the Dodgers.
His return would be a big boost and he’s a lefty.
It goes both ways. Depending on which stadium they play in. when they play in AL parks, NL teams play by AL rules (using a DH), and vice versa.
Wang should have just stood there and took 3 pitches.
i will repost here what i posted earlier for those who might be interested…
prediction. no doubt Wang has a Lisfranc injury (a la Bruney). i really, really hope I am wrong. it is an injury centered in the middle of your foot. the foot consists of 3 approximate sections: hindfoot (heel), forefoot (the toes) and midfoot (in between or the “archâ€). the Lisfranc injury really has to do with the underside of the arch rather than the top of the foot. would explain more but probably not necessary unless someone had an overwhelming desire to know. in a pinch, you can Google or yahoo it, maybe even run your search with “lisfranc injury patient information.†i do that all the time. it can definitely help. Lisfranc was another cool character in 19th century medicine (back then if u noticed something u got the chance to stamp your name on it, sort of like William Ostler, Karl Langer, etc)… a surgeon in Napoleon’s army. the Lisranc inj centers about the tarsometatarsal articulation of the foot, i.e., the midfoot. when u stand on the ball of your foot, you can feel the pressure building in the Lisfranc area of your foot. sometimes you actually attempt to complete xrays w/ patients standing in just such a position. imagine the discomfort. : )
would actually be very surprised if wang did not have a Lisfranc injury. pain, swelling and his being unable to even walk veritably suggests it. let’s hope it is a grade 1 or 2 w/ no fx or fx-disloc. usually w/ any sprain, grade 1 = stretching the ligament. grade 3 = full tear or injury of the ligament. grade 2 = somewhere in between.
we can hope wang has a 1 or 2. you KNOW they did an xray which is not very helpful most of the time. that is why he will undergo an MRI. sometimes it is glaringly apparent, but those instances are rare. that means he will probably be out 3-4 weeks. he will be casted. funny enough, during the game i was thinking things are starting to turn around b/c they finally are starting to hit w/ some decent starting pitching. i also thought wang should have stayed on 3rd, but it was not meacham’s fault as pete a. alluded to earlier. this was a problem waiting to happen. who is to say that wang during any sort of running exercise might not have experienced similar discomfort. but i was thinking a couple bench moves… voila. stronger team. not. if wang has a fx (fracture) or fx-disloc, then he will probably require surgery (then he will be out for 10-12 weeks at the least). could be back in time for late Aug or even Sept (??). who knows. complications abound w/ these types of injuries.
do not know who the yanks use. could use Dr. William Hamilton @ Roosevelt (St. Luke’s-Roosevelt). he is the big foot guy in the city. athletes from all over the US travel to see him. some would call him the James Andrews of feet. he has taken care of Emmitt Smith, Scottie Pippen, big Eric Williams (am a HUGE Cowboys fan! down w/ Big Blue. got lucky, right?)… (could also swear he took care of that loser Charles Smith, who could not score in the paint against the Bulls… clang w/ NO FOULS CALLED!).
the yanks will be as they will be. cannot worry about it now. the question is will they make that move for CC? who knows. will make for good drama. i will be checking in on mlbtraderumors regularly.
hey, there’s alot of people who want the dh gone, they have a valid point too. remember, there are 16 nl teams and only 14 al teams so a vote will not favor the dh.
fay vincent was on MMD advocating getting rid of the d.h. last week.
personally i like the d.h. and interleague play, but id like to see them switch it so there is no dh in al parks and a dh in nl parks so people get to see how the game is played in the other league.
Did anyone know what a Lisfranc injury was until Bruney or Strahan had it? So please with the amateur Md’s stop trying to diagonois the injury.
From MLBtraderumors:
The Indians are “thoroughly scouting” eight teams that may be interested in C.C. Sabathia, including the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, and Dodgers (the Mets may be another). Gammons agrees with Ken Rosenthal that Mark Shapiro may trade Sabathia soon to maximize his value. Gammons does not see the Yanks jumping in with Phil Hughes or a multi-prospect offer, unless Chien-Ming Wang’s injury forces their hand. He does not think the Cubs or Phillies have the goods, but suggests the Rangers as a dark horse.
I hope that Wang is not out for an extended period of time. But if he is the farm system that Cashman stocked up on will come very much into play – either to bring up replacements for Wang or to use as trade bait for an established starter.
If darth daddy has to repost another one of those it is Lisfranc injury ala Bruney posts when nothing is for certain I’m gonna get very angry here. We saw it the first time.
Meanwhile Tyler Kepner
Wang has symptoms of the same injury, including swelling and the inability to bear weight on the foot; he left Minute Maid Park on crutches, in a soft cast. Bruney’s injury was in the middle of the foot, and Wang’s is believed to be in the webbing of his toes, between his big toe and second toe.
Medical isn’t my major but that does not sound like Lisfranc to me.
darth, what are you medical qualifications and doesnt a simple bone fracture also present with pain, swelling and an inability to stand on your foot? (mine did)
and even if you are a doctor how can you make a diagnosis without even seeing the patient?
such speculation at this point is ridiculous.
ps – MLBTR got it from Gammon’s ESPN insider blog:
If you are an ESPN Insider, you can see the story here
darth daddy-
sounds like you’re a foot fetisht.
Like Darth, I’m going to try my hand at 21st century medicine with the following diagnosis:
Wang has Athlete’s Foot. I know this conclusion may come as a surprise to some of you, but because Wang was a great pitcher big-time performer for the Yankees, it was only a matter of time until Athlete’s Foot got around to him.
At this point and time, it doesn’t seem as though surgery will be necessary, but a constant application of Tough-Actin’ Tinactin as well as prescription creams should clear it up within 4-6 weeks.
It’s funny to read the medical experts here talk about Lisfranc injuries when 99% of them had never heard of it just two months ago.
“Wang has Athlete’s Foot”
No way! If you watched those commercials, you would know that Athletes foot (also known as footus, athleticus, itchimus maximus) presents as a foot on flames with cartoon characters running all over it.
It is true b/c I saw it on TV
It’s funny to read the medical experts here talk about Lisfranc injuries when 99% of them had never heard of it just two months ago.
We can all thank Kim Jones for this.
How come women walk around in uncomfortable, outrageous heels and never need lisfranc surgery?
PS GO Tie0ger
Don’t worry fellow Yankee fans, Carl Pavano is on the way! (LOL)
Re: Kernan’s Robertson article:
“Last June, I wrote about another young pitcher in the New York Yankees system who was better than Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy, even though those two pitchers were getting all the pub. His name was Joba Chamberlain.”
I did some looking, and the closest thing to a Kevin Kernan article from June, 2007 was: http://www.nypost.com/seven/07092007/sports/future_perfect_sports_kevin_kernan.htm?page=1
There’s nothing close to writing “about another young pitcher in the New York Yankees system who was better than Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy”.
Talk about trying to take credit for something you didn’t write…
I’m so nervous about Wang.
I wonder how many times we will hear the name Bronson Arroyo on Mike and the Mad Dog today?
“Don’t worry fellow Yankee fans, Carl Pavano is on the way! (LOL)”- Just writing that prob caused Pavano to reinjure himself.
There also was an amusing Joel Sherman article from last June/July in which he asked 8 MLB ‘executives’ about a Hughes+Chamberlain for Santana swap, and 1 said the Yankees shouldn’t do it, 1 said the Twins shouldn’t, and 6 said definitely do it.
Something about a ‘potential front line starter and a power reliever’.
A real doctor in Texas looked at the foot and said further tests are needed but writers and fans with limited medical knowledge and never having even seen the foot know what’s wrong with it. That makes sense.
v- email him and call him out on it.
Wang’s injury is, of course, unfortunate, but it was a freak thing. I grew up primarily watching the NL, and I hate the DH. I don’t see that there’s a real reason to change the way inter-league happens. It’s a never-ending discussion, but I’m all for doing away with the DH entirely.
On a more positive note, Yadier Molina seems to be ok after that scary play with Bruntlett yesterday.
Sunny615 ;
Gammons will ALWAYS say his Red Sux have an interest in a player the Yankees are rumored to thinking about with the idea that the Yankees weaken themselves by having to up the ante.
It’s part of his role as a snitch to John Henry in having a luxury section at his favorite ballpark in the world.
Since I actually have a fairly good amount of medical experience because of my military 26 week medical training at Ft Houston, Texas as part of my Special Forces duties, I can spot this injury a mile away. I’ve seen it often. We medical personnel classify it as an ouchie. Just thought I’d join everyone else and put in my plugged nickel.
“I’m hoping against hope that it’s not a season-ending injury; but even if not, it’s certain that we won’t be seeing Wang pitch for at least a couple, 2-3 weeks, from the looks of things.”
My sentiments exactly Doreen.
David Wells is the answer!!!!! What a story that would be! Wells comes riding in like a knight in shining armor to step in for Wang and save the season.
I wonder if some people are throwing out the word Lisfranc just to give the speculation more authority and credibility. Until recently no one has heard of Lisfranc. What are the chances that 2 Yankees are inflicted by the same rare foot injury in a matter of 2 months?
Bruney got it because he slipped off the bag in a strange angle. Wang, according to Moose who talked to him, said he hurt his foot while running on the grass from 3rd to home. So I’m holding out hope that it won’t be the same thing. Also, how often does someone sustain serious foot injuries from running on flat grass that keep them out for 4 months? I hope of all people, this kind of worst case freak accident doesn’t happen to a reliable workhorse like Wang.
V…... keep looking, I’ll do it for you…
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06152008/sports/yankees/joba_ii___with_a_twist_115501.htm
suffice it to say that when you sustain an injury or are ill (with your runny noses and fevers, fractures, surgical emergencies, pediatric emergencies and heart attacks) you come in to see me. i have seen numerous pt’s in the past w/ similar injuries and have diagnosed lisfranc injuries. maybe i will be wrong (i hope i will being a yankee fan), but wang’s presentation is almost classic for lisfranc injuries. nuff said. next time i will keep my mouth shut and go back to reading the blog and saving the comments. thanks GreenBeret7. dead on point.
“I’m hoping against hope that it’s not a season-ending injury; but even if not, it’s certain that we won’t be seeing Wang pitch for at least a couple, 2-3 weeks, from the looks of things.â€
I think the Yankees will be breaking out the champagne and maybe even cookies and ice-cream if they hear it’s only 2-3 weeks.
Although I have an AL rules bias and like the DH, there’s also a good argument to be made against it.
But it sure does seem that any game would be better served with just ONE set of rules for both leagues (and ideally for minors, college and high school, too).
Sorry, John C, but, I just can’t get the picture of David Wells riding to the rescue in armor splattered with taco sauce and beer stains, while mounted on a Belgian Draft Horse (only horse big enough for him). That wouldn’t exactly give me warm fuzzies.
I’m 20 game mini plan owner. I received my pre sale password, Friday.
Is anyone else having issues with their password?
“The password you entered is not in our system.”
This is all a bit too suspect for me.
Turf toe.
I blame Jeter for this entire situation. He is always so greedy. Whether it be starletts or base hits, all that he wants is more and more.
Or…..this is probably Cano’s fault.
Or…..Damon’s fault, we should have DFA’d him when he had a chance, Giambi too.
Same here
“suffice it to say that when you sustain an injury or are ill (with your runny noses and fevers, fractures, surgical emergencies, pediatric emergencies and heart attacks) you come in to see me.”
So let me get this straight, You’re a cardiologist/orthepedic surgeon/general medical practictioner/pediatrician?
Wow, just wow.
I never knew doctors had so many different specialities. Are you really Dr.Gregory House? Although even he doesn’t do his own surgeries.
Raymagnetic,
I’m glad that you have your registerd trademark back. When you don’t have it, I feel like you are a Canal Street knockoff.
it is called emergency medicine. first line of defense. and no i am no gregory house as i do not abuse vicodin. next time i will shut my hole and read comments only.
ANdy-
Jeter is greedy, that’s why he has tax problems.
”
Raymagnetic,
I’m glad that you have your registerd trademark back. When you don’t have it, I feel like you are a Canal Street knockoff.”
This is very funny. On weekends I generally use a different computer so the trademark goes away.
how do you get the trademark, anyway/
V,
This is the Kernan article here when he discusses Chamberlain.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06242007/sports/joba_the_hot_sports_kevin_kernan.htm?page=0
copy n pasteâ„¢
TurnTwo,
Cut and pasted from Microsoft Word symbols. Of course since I’ve told you my secret you do realize what I’ll have to do to you….......
Oh god get off the Bronson Arroyo BS it’s spreading ! No he is not worth Dellin Betances at all or McCallister
i understand, ray. do as you must.
just say no to bronson arroyo. blech.
Seriously what is the fixation with Bronson Arroyo?
The anticipation is killing me. News on Wang’s foot could drastically change this season.
Who would have thought that this is how Monday would be spent? Just when the Yankees started pitching and hitting well, Cashman and Girardi’s roster tweaks started coming together.
Why must this happen! Why can’t the Yankees have a stretch of games when no important player is injured?
I await this news, wondering about Phil. Wondering about Ian. Wondering how many times we will need to call upon the journeymen pitchers in our farm system. The Aaron Smalls, the Dan Geises… How many times do we need to ask these players to over-perform? Will they this time?
I hope that foot is okay, boy do I hope.
If they are going to trade Betances or McAllister, its going to be for a helluva lot better pitcher than Bronson Arroyo.
A lot of people don’t realize that Kevin Kernan discovered Joba. He scouted him, signed him and taught him. Kernan is a genius.
Pitchers hitting, always cringeworthy. Thank the maker that Carl Pavano will be back soon.
What is with the injuries this year? I follow the Cardinals, and dangit, they’re getting bit with the injury bug also. Pujols
IStheir offense.Arroyo would be the best rock star the Yanks have had since Black Jack McDowell.
I would rather have a pitcher, but I’m picky.
Bernie is a smooth jazz superstar.
If the answer is Bronson Arroyo, the question is very depressing indeed.
“What is with the injuries this year? I follow the Cardinals, and dangit, they’re getting bit with the injury bug also. Pujols
IStheir offense.”Ryan Ludwick too
Now ESPN is trying to float Bedard and Meche…oh brother, I bet Aceves would be better than Meche, Teale said he tops out at 95 mph I didn’t know that.
Meche always had great stuff, but never put it all together arguably until last season in KC… but still, you’re taking on, what, another 3 years with that contract? Id rather get Greinke than Meche.
Bedard would be interesting, but i doubt Seattle will move him before the end of the season. thats a big-time “my bad” call right there. if they leaned house in management, though, they might consider it.
” next time i will shut my hole and read comments only.”
Relax, darth daddy, no one is saying you cannot comment, they are simply surprised that someone claiming to have an MD is making a diagnosis without seeing the injury. My cousin is a doctor and whenever I ask him about some health problem, he may give me his opinion, but he always, always, tells me that that’s just a guess and I need to see my primary physician. That’s why we’re suspicious of your credentials.
As far as the Wang situation, I vote move from within. If they make a deal for Sabathia that means the loss of many of our good young players, then the Yankees are back to their old ways and we will once again be a “one-and-done” franchise. I don’t want to just make the playoffs, I want a World Series championship.
This speculation is ridiculous about Wang. How would any “sources” or “journalists” know more than the doctors themselves?
He hasn’t even had an MRI yet. If the doctors don’t even know, how would someone with zero medical training be so sure of it? All the post articles that he’s out for the season are just so ridiculous, and so is everyone else who keeps suggesting we trade for this pitcher and that. What if he only misses 2 starts? We just don’t know yet.
And all the people who keep bringing up Lisfranc… had you even heard of one before Bruney? It’s a very rare injury, not just a diagnosis you hand out like candy. If he did have it, nobody would know anyway until the MRI, so to assume it at this point is just ridiculous.
Wang actually scored on the play. Though he was helped off the field, it was under his own power. To suggest that he’s injured seriously because his foot “hurts” just doesn’t make any sense. If he were more seriously hurt, don’t you think he would have had trouble finishing the rest of the 60 feet to home plate more than he did?
I would love to see Aceves, he sounds great, but he is not on the 40 man roster,
Dan McCutchen is not on the 40 man roster
Jeff Marquez is on the 40 man roster (possibility)
I would like to see Chase Wright start again, he is on the 40 man roster. why not him?
“I would like to see Chase Wright start again, he is on the 40 man roster. why not him?”
he’s been out for a couple weeks now with a shoulder issue. no chance he’s making it up to contribute any time soon.
I would like to see Chase Wright start again, he is on the 40 man roster. why not him?
shutdown precautionary reasons (shoulder)
By the way, SJ44, you’ve been keeping a pretty close eye on the progress of McCutcheon, do you think he’s ready to make the move to the bigs now?
A page from the Billy Beane book of baseball:
“The day you tell yourself you NEED to make a trade is the day you make a bad trade.”
Let’s not hit the panic button just yet, and see how this whole thing develops.
Lisfranc
Bruney – 2008
Strahan – 2006
Justin Tuck – 2006
Kevin Jones – 2007?
Phil Simms – 1990
etc etc
Yea people have heard of the injury before
Brandon,
A word of caution about prospects my friend. They aren’t all better options than guys who are established ML pitchers. They also all aren’t going to make it for a variety of reasons. Just look at this season with the Yankees as an example.
What somebody tops out at in AA or A ball doesn’t necessarily translate to major league success.
There are plenty of AA and A hitters who, truth be told, aren’t good hitters. That affects a pitchers line because often their stats show better than what they are. Its why scouting is so important. You have to have a solid handle on which guys stuff can translate to big league success and which can’t. Its more than the radar gun.
If for example, the Yankees were to acquire Gil Meche, that is an upgrade from anybody they currently have in their minor league system who could pitch major league innings at this time.
Aceves is a guy that becomes a valuable trade chip if the Yankees seek to go out and get a pitcher. He’s not going to fill in for Chien Ming Wang. Not now and not in the future.
The Yankees aren’t the Marlins. One of the benefits of building up the farm system is to be able to trade guys to fill the needs at the major league level. They also have enough money to pay over slot for guys (Cole and Marshall in this years draft for example) to overcome what they lose in any trade they make this year.
I don’t see Eric Bedard as an option because the guy has an awful reputation as a teammate as well as a chronic hip condition.
I think somebody like Meche is an option. I also could see them making a big run at CC because there is no downside to a prospects only deal for CC. If he’s a rental, you get 2 draft picks and replenish what you lost in the trade.
If he signs on long term, you have another ace in the fold.
Cano wouldn’t be included in the deal because the Wang injury changes the Yankees position. If of course, he was ever an option at all.
Short term, the Yankees will fill the need from within. If Wang’s injury is season ending? No doubt in my mind they will go outside the organization to fill the need.
Lisfranc is more common in football, point is no one would have thought Lisfranc until Kim Jones opened her damn mouth.
Shouldn’t the coaches prepare players a little better? The Yankees have had too many hamstring problems. Why?
Why can’t pitchers practice running around bases? National League pitchers don’t get hurt, is it because they’re accustomed to running with spikes?
It’s terrible that Wang was injured. Let’s hope the coaches can try to prevent any more tragedies.
SJ that’s understood but lets be honest Shapiro is not going to take pennies for CC, and he might think the same thing, right now they aren’t out of a playoff race, he’s going to attempt to make the playoffs w/ his rotation including CC and if he doesn’t get the deal he wants he’ll let CC walk for the 2 draft picks.
I didn’t hear Kim Jones but it was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw it
I am no doctor and I didn’t go broadcasting it to everyone but it was the first thing that I thought about when I saw him pointing to his foot
Probably because it would be the worst case scenario to lose our best starter for the rest of the year
I am however hoping that it is athletes foot, though
“Cano wouldn’t be included in the deal because the Wang injury changes the Yankees position. If of course, he was ever an option at all.
Short term, the Yankees will fill the need from within. If Wang’s injury is season ending? No doubt in my mind they will go outside the organization to fill the need.” – SJ44
What’s make you so sure Cano wouldn’t be included, or Hughes, or Kennedy, or Melky, or a whole lot of other good young players and prospects? You have said repeatedly that the Yankees were going to stick with the plan of building the team from within. In order to get CC they will have to give up “the farm” and you, of all people, know that.
Brandon – Lisfranc was the first thing that I thought when I saw him pull up limp. I have no basis for that, it was just my immediate reaction. And you are right, it is much more common in football. It pretty much ended Duce Staley’s career.
If I was in a position of power with the Yankees, I would do the following:
1. Put Giese in the rotation and call up David Robertson to replace Giese in the bullpen. That solves the problem for the short term. I wouldn’t call up McCutchen because he has only pitched one good game in AAA since his recall. I would hope he pitches more good games to build up his value (whether its for a trade or a later callup) at this time.
2. If the injury to Wang is long term (ie: greater than 60 days), put him on the 60 DL so Robertson can be added to the 40 man roster. If they don’t want to do that right now, either trade (they are shopping him heavily) Hawkins for anything you can get right now or DFA him. He has no role on the team with the emergence of Ramirez and Veras and its not worth tying up a roster spot, which is probably the only thing keeping Robertson in the minors right now.
2. Prepare a list of guys in the system who would be available in a CC deal. He’s the guy to get if you can do it. If not, then you look at the next level (Meche-type) options.
3. Monitor Freddie Garcia. He’s working out in Miami everyday and I believe he has another workout for teams scheduled shortly. If he shows any ability to be able to get outs, sign him. That’s a money only deal and even if you overpay, you are the Yankees. Its not a big deal to waste money on a pitcher. Hell, they wasted 46 million on Kei Igawa. Overpaying for a half season of Freddie Garcia is a no lose situation. Regardless of what the radar gun reading are, the guy can pitch. They just have to feel comfortable he can get big league hitters out.
No one over values prospects like thus forum.
sj44 being inconsistent???? I don’t believe it! I wonder if sj will advocate cutting giambi again or trading Damon.
SJ Freddy is throwing 85 mph at HardBall camp in Miami, the talk is he won’t be ready until after the AllStar break late July. And he would need a month and a half atleast in minor league arm tuning. I would look away from him.
No one knows what Shapiro will take for a FA to be. Stop assuming it will be four A level guys. We have no clue.
Why do they have to give up the farm?
The Indians know that if they don’t trade him he will most likely leave via FA. If they are able to get 2-3 prospects that are ready for the ML in a year or two it would be better than waiting 3-4 years for a draftee.
The only thing that has changed in the equation is Wang. If he is out for the year the Indians will hold the Yankees up, knowing that they may be desperate.
SJ,
Couldn’t agree more. I think if the Yankees lost 5 out 6 or so on this road trip, maybe they don’t think about making a move. But since they played well, the front office will more likely make a move since there is light at the end of the tunnel.
I appreciate your argument SJ44, good points all, but you didn’t answer my question. If they trade most of our good young players for Sabathia, is that not a retreat from the plan you said they would never go back on.
And don’t use the Wang injury as a reason. Injuries are a part of the game, there are no guarantees that any player will go through a season injury free. If you believe in your plan, you should stick with it – agreed?
Man, the MLB season would probably be over in taiwan if wang is really out for the season. It’s ok, as good neighbors, we’ll still root for igawa!!
Brandon thinks every Yank prospect will be a future All Star.
Fact: All Yankees prospects will become superstars. Just wait until we unleash our 2010 10-Man Rotation!
I have a couple of thoughts. First, to trade for CC will be a two way street. First included are teams w/ prospect, second are teams that can afford his extension. That’s not too many teams.
Will it cost the farm, no, didn’t for the Mets and Santana. Plus the Yankees have a surplus of young pitching talent. Not every one of them will be big leaguers and even if the were you can’t run out a 9 man rotation.
Indians would help themselves best long term to strike will the iron is hot. The longer they wait, the less they can get back. Even to hold on for the draft picks isn’t as valuable as one might think. That late the best players are signability guys, which for them may be a stretch, assuming a winning team signs him in off season.
No one knows what Shapiro will take for a FA to be. Stop assuming it will be four A level guys. We have no clue.
We actually do just check Bartolo Colon deal for reference, he outfleeced Omar Minaya and the worse deal he’s ever made was Bradon Philips to Cincy and that’s because ownership forced him to do it because Philips was becoming a nuisance and developed a dogging attitude.
You don’t deal from a place of weakness. You don’t.
If the Indians ask for something insane (Hughes+Tabata+Jackson+Montero) (and heck, why not?), you hang up and wait for them to call back.
Cleveland isn’t trading Sabathia until late July if at all. I can almost guarantee that.
The Yanks should go with Giese for now, if he bombs go to McCutchen or Karstens. Kennedy will be ready soon. If Wang is out for the year the Yanks should make a trade. If not, they shouldn’t. I’m not a big fan of Meche but hes an option I suppose. Maybe trade for Ben Sheets, he’s injury prone but maybe the Yanks could get half a season out of him.
Brandon thinks every Yank prospect will be a future All Star.
No I really don’t. BTW Don’t know what this post is suppose to mean or contribute at that.
“The only thing that has changed in the equation is Wang. If he is out for the year the Indians will hold the Yankees up, knowing that they may be desperate.” – Vader
Exactly!! And by the way, which team will want to help the Yankees when they are in desperation mode. They will gut us if they suspect the organization is desperate.
Pepitone,
The Wang injury changes things because they need all the offense they can get. Its why I don’t think Cano would be included in the deal.
If Wang was healthy and they went after CC, perhaps that’s a different story.
The injury changes everything for the Yankees. They could make a prospect laden deal for CC because, even if he was a rental, the draft picks they would get when they lose him allows them to replenish the system.
Brandon,
Shapiro only has to get greater value than his draft picks in order to trade CC. He’s not going to fleece anybody because there isn’t a big market for CC on the trade front.
Very few teams have enough prospects to offer for a rental guy and be able to offset the loss of them when he bolts.
The Yankees and Red Sox can absorb it. The Rangers aren’t going to do it because they can’t beat the Angels even with Sabathia this year. The Rays aren’t going to do it, even though they have the prospects, because pitching is not their weakness.
The Dodgers don’t make deals like this. They won’t trade him within their division. The Brewers concievably could do the deal. I don’t know if they have the stomach for it though.
If for example, the Yankees sent Horne or McCutchen, Betances and Tabata to Cleveland for CC, that’s something Shapiro has to think about.
He is going to have to fill 2, perhaps 3 slots in his rotation next year. Byrd and CC are FA’s. Westbrook will miss most of next year with TJ Surgery. Horne or McCutchen gives him a young starter to put in the rotation.
Tabata and Betances are the kind of high end prospects that makes one re-think keeping the draft choices for CC.
Ironically, given the current situation in NY and the depth in the system, the Yankees could absorb the prospect losses on the trade and be ok. Something that couldn’t be said 3 years ago.
If you want to expand the deal and add Gardner, and take back a veteran bat for the bench like Dellucci in return, that’s another option.
The Yankees have to give up something to get something for a guy like CC.
Its a matter of prioritizing the guys in the system you feel you must keep no matter what.
IMO, those should be the following: Hughes, Melancon, Brackman, Austin Jackson, Montero, and perhaps Humberto Sanchez or David Robertson. Depending on what they see their future roles as in NY. After that, every other guy can be put in the mix, depending on what form the deal takes.
The yanks only plan has been to win a championship. I think they will do everything they can to improve the team right now. Even if Wang were not hurt they would be looking for a Sabathia
Pepitone,
I for one would say no, because you are getting a young player in return.
I would say yes if they traded for a early 30’s guy, perhaps trending down hill.
“Indians would help themselves best long term to strike will the iron is hot. The longer they wait, the less they can get back. Even to hold on for the draft picks isn’t as valuable as one might think. That late the best players are signability guys, which for them may be a stretch, assuming a winning team signs him in off season.”
Also, the Indians don’t typically pay that much for draftees. Different draft philosophy than the Yankees.
V
Right. In terms of receiving comp pick, mid to late 20’s are less valuable.
What teams do you guys believe would be in the CC mix?
Good post SJ44 – the prospect evaluation is spot on, IMO.
Shapiro is a full blown idiot and so is anyone else if he thinks he can duplicate the Colon deal in today market.
Matt-
“Wang actually scored on the play. Though he was helped off the field, it was under his own power. To suggest that he’s injured seriously because his foot “hurts†just doesn’t make any sense. If he were more seriously hurt, don’t you think he would have had trouble finishing the rest of the 60 feet to home plate more than he did?”
Obviously you never played competitive sports. I played D1 soccer and tore my plantar fascia (same injury as Jay Buhner in Seattle and Marcus Camby while on the Knicks) in the middle of play and was able to limp about 70 feet off the field. I spen the next 7 weeks in a cast but was able to limp off. To suggest that Wang should have cumpled to the groud the second the injury occured is assanine.
I agree with Vader which is why I don’t like the idea of trying to get C.C. The Indians will want the world from the Yankees.
SJ,
Couldn’t agree more. I think if the Yankees lost 5 out 6 or so on this road trip, maybe they don’t think about making a move. But since they played well, the front office will more likely make a move since there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Actually, I think the exact opposite of your conclusion..If Wang is out for the season and if the Yankees had lost 5 of 6 on the road trip, they would have felt even more pressure to turn things around: Thus requiring a big trade instead of experimenting with minor league guys. The yankees are still a ways away from reclaiming the AL-East as it is..a poorly played road trip (say 33-37 record after the 3 games in Houston) would have catapulted them into the trade market.
The Colon trade is not the benchmark deal to look at in any CC trade.
The benchmark is simple. What deal can Shapiro make that justifies losing the draft picks.
The Yankees don’t and won’t give up the farm to get CC. If Shapiro asks for too much, they will say “no” and walk away.
I do think they will make a run at him if Shapiro puts him on the market. They may not be able to match up but, they won’t say no out of hand.
If they did get him, it doesn’t change their philosophy one bit. You use your farm system in various ways to help your team. Trades are one vehicle to do so.
SJ – love where your heads at.
That’s the kind of deal Shapiro could sell to the fan base. It’s very win – win.
SJ if there isn’t a market for CC why not wait till the offseason the acquire him, all it will cost is money at that point. I’m not into trading Tabata or Betances (but that’s just me)
“We actually do just check Bartolo Colon deal for reference, he outfleeced Omar Minaya and the worse deal he’s ever made was Bradon Philips to Cincy and that’s because ownership forced him to do it because Philips was becoming a nuisance and developed a dogging attitude.”
that isnt comparable, because the expos, when they made that trade, didnt even know if they were going to have a franchise the next year due to contraction. they made the push to win now and give up prospects because they didnt really have a choice.
We run all the time,†Mike Mussina said. “But we run in straight lines on the outfield grass. It’s not the same.â€
i’ve blown out two hammys after hitting first base and turning it on making the turn for second base going for doubles.
it’s the turn that puts a lot of pressure on the body.
mussina couldn’t be more right.
that said it was unlucky wang got hurt.
but that said, you often make your own luck.
the yankees should simply give up runs if a pitcher has to run hard.
pitchers should not slide at all.
pitchers should not swing the bat if they never have.
pitchers should not bunt if they never have.
these should be rules to take as much bad luck out of the equation as possible.
a run here or there just isn’t worth the risk.
then*
SJ44 preaches youth and the system for two years but now says trade??
“The benchmark is simple. What deal can Shapiro make that justifies losing the draft picks.”
exactly. better to take back a combo of talent already proven amongst minor league levels than take a chance on a couple of HS kids coming into pro ball… especially when the Indians wont go over slot to really pick the best available kids with those draft picks.
I hope the next batch of can’t miss kids are better than Hughes and Kennedy.
“Brandon thinks every Yank prospect will be a future All Star.
No I really don’t. BTW Don’t know what this post is suppose to mean or contribute at that.”
Yup, they would probably say the same about me, Brandon. However, I think you and me are talking about the plan. The plan in the past was develop our young players, and then trade them for “established stars,” e.g. Carl Pavano (YEAH, I know he was a free agent, but that was the plan back then), Randy Johnson, Jaret Wright, Gary Sheffield, etc. That plan has gotten us dumped in the first round of most of our playoff appearances. I vote we stick with the new plan and continue to hang on to our young players.
Hey all! I am totally devastated about Wang. He has been my favorite for a while now BUT here is why I don’t believe this is as big a blow as A-Rod and Jorge out of the lineup.
1)a pitcher goes out there every 5 days. Losing a position player of high caliber is much more devastating on an every day basis. The Yankees still have a lineup that can score 13+ runs a game.
2) Mike Mussina…..this guy has 10 wins and looks sharp. Everyone thought Wang would have to win 20 games to pick up the rest of the pitching staff. With Moose pitching the way he has been pitching, the Yanks are getting much more than what they originally thought
3) Andy Pettite is coming around. This is his time of year.
4) Joba Camberlin is proving that he can handle the rotation much better than Hughes or Kennedy.
5) Rasner just needs to keep the Yanks in the game like he has before the one bad start in Oakland. Again this is a lineup that can score 13+ runs a game. They have been taking off as of late.
So, while it totally stinks to lose Wang for even just one game, I don’t think this is the end for the Yankees. BUT I do believe this will prove to fans exactly what the front office is thinking. If they make a move to go out and get a big guy then they will in fact back up what they are claming, that they want to rebuild but still win. If they bring up Kei Igawa well then let’s face it..this is just a transition year!
This team needs to take advantage of the EASY schedule they have and pick up some more wins and leave .500 in the rear view mirror
Interesting take from Kepner, who was specific about the location of Wang’s injury – the toes.
Watching the game yesterday, Wang doubled over at home plate with Girardi, he was pointing down at his toes, his big toe is what I thought initially.
Anyway, just reporting what I saw. I wouldn’t be surprised if he broke a toe or two, bent from stepping on the corner of the base.
What about AJ Burnett? He is injured often, but his stuff is nasty, and it would cost far less in terms of prospects than CC. Maybe something like Horne and a low level bat could get it done.
“I hope the next batch of can’t miss kids are better than Hughes and Kennedy.”
d00d, go away.
I guess Kershaw sucks also, right? Johnny Cueto?
Heck, of the young, can’t miss prospects, Edinson Volquez is the only one dominating, he doesn’t even qualify as a rookie.
Shapiro is a full blown idiot and so is anyone else if he thinks he can duplicate the Colon deal in today market.
So..Shapiro is an idiot for starting his asking price high? Also, how did this idiot complete the Colon trade in the first place?
This is how trades work! Sellers start the asking price high, buyers try to bring them down, and they meet somewhere in the middle. Why else do you think the Twins asked for Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne, Jeff Marquez, Babe Ruth’s Monument Park plaque, Brian Cashman’s soul, and a lifetime supply of Reggie Bars for Johan Santana? What did Minnesota end up getting for him? Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra.
It us a terrific plan to stick with young Kidd if said kids are great players. You don’t win with kids who aren’t good. These are the Yankees. They won’t be playing 25 min salary guys. Go root for the Royals.
Instead of taking shots at me, think for a minute.
CC Sabathia is 27 years old. He’s 18 months older than Alan Horne and Daniel McCutchen. They aren’t trading for Kevin Brown.
For all the fitness freaks on this blog who are concerned with his appearance, how many times has he been on the DL in his career? Let’s just say, 2 fewer than Phil Hughes.
He’s the reigning Cy Young winner and has a 2.28 ERA in his last 11 starts.
Yes, it would be AWFUL for the Yankees to “abandon” their youth movement (in the eyes of some) in order to acquire a pitcher of CC’s age and pedigree.
Situations change during a season. IF Wang is out for the season, the Yankees aren’t going to say, “Oh well, bad break, let’s just go with our youngsters the rest of the year”.
Its not going to happen.
They aren’t going to drain the farm system to make ANY trade. They also won’t have to drain the farm system to make a CC trade. But, IMO, they will make a deal. Its just a matter of who they get and who they give up in return.
They aren’t turning over Wang’s slot in the rotation for the rest of the year to Dan Giese, Alan Horne or Daniel McCutchen. It ain’t gonna happen if Wang is out for the season.
Good to see there is no shortage of doctors on this website.
If I’m the Yankees’ FO, I simply ask the Indians, point blank, what they’re looking for (SP prospects, position prospects, ML ready, higher ceiling but lower level) and build on that. Heck, do the ‘here’s our list, take one from column 1, one from column 2, one from column 3’ gig, and see if the asking price is too high.
I guess people like V think all of our prospects will be stars now too. Sorry to break the bad news to you V. But they won’t. And Hughes and Kennedy havent impressed have they? Go away V.
“It us a terrific plan to stick with young Kidd if said kids are great players. You don’t win with kids who aren’t good. These are the Yankees. They won’t be playing 25 min salary guys. Go root for the Royals.”
Do you speak English?
Pepitone, that’s exactly what I mean. We’ve been doing this year after year after year and where does it get us ? Nowhere. Why would Cashman do this deal for CC when he’s not at a position of strength and w/ the thought in the back of his mind saying “Hey I can get this guy in 7 months just for a check” This is the direction I’d rather go if they are to get CC, but not at the expense of selling your plan. If this isn’t the plan then guess what Santana should have been acquired and even then I was never a fan of that potential deal, players in the downside of thier careers is a turn off for me.
SJ44, I agree with you; however, I think we disagree a little on how much the Yankees should give up (such as last week, when I adamantly disagreed with the Cano possibility – this organization isn’t trading Cano).
If the Yankees had a ‘one from column A, one from column B, one from column C’ offer, who would you include in each column?
I really doubt the Blue Jays would trade Burnett to the Yankees, nonetheless another AL East team. That would not send a good message to the few fans they have.
Can’t see the Blue Jays looking to make a deal with the Yankees. Not with both fighting in their own division for a playoff berth.
Isnt the system loaded??? Why can’t they trade Gor help now especially an ace in his prime? I’m baffled at anyone anti better starting pitching. Wake up
SJ has always said you use your farm system to develop players & when a deal comes around, you have the chips to make that deal.
There is no guarantee Tabata or Betances will pan out in the majors, the proposed deal by SJ for CC makes a lot of sense for both teams.
The question is whether Shapiro values the players in the Yankees farm system more than what he could acquire through the draft.
The answer is most likely yes.
Surprised a team has never given Giese a sustained shot. He’s not a great pitcher, but he’s also acquitted himself well in the minors. And he keeps his walk and hit rates down.
Karstens, frankly, is less attractive. Granted, he’s younger, but he’s never had great success and he’s much more hittable than Giese. From a biased standpoint, I saw him get absolutely lit up by Pawtucket a few weeks ago. He was allowed to make three starts for NYY last year, and never put anything together. Giese should get at least as many chances as Karstens did to compile his +11 ERA.
McCutchen is coming off a good start, but just one. He needs to put a couple of good starts together. Because you don’t want to call up the guy who allowed 16 hits in 12 1/3 IP in his previous two starts.
Scott Patterson is Aaron Small.
If the injury to Wang is severe, they’ll need to trade for help unless Giese pitches well above expectations for a few starts. I would expect nothing from the other three guys, especially Karstens
Pepitone and V’s heads may explode from not agreeing with SJ.
“The plan in the past was develop our young players, and then trade them for “established stars,†e.g. Carl Pavano (YEAH, I know he was a free agent, but that was the plan back then), Randy Johnson, Jaret Wright, Gary Sheffield, etc. ”
Only Randy Johnson was acquired via trade.
“Its a matter of prioritizing the guys in the system you feel you must keep no matter what.
IMO, those should be the following: Hughes, Melancon, Brackman, Austin Jackson, Montero, and perhaps Humberto Sanchez or David Robertson. Depending on what they see their future roles as in NY. After that, every other guy can be put in the mix, depending on what form the deal takes.”
Dang it, SJ44, I cannot find fault in your argument. Sabathia is still young (he’s, what, 26-27?), and your point that the Yankees will not include Hughes, Kennedy, etc. in any deal makes a lot of sense. OK, make the trade!
If you can’t trust them to trade the right prospects than we are already done for.
“I guess people like V think all of our prospects will be stars now too. Sorry to break the bad news to you V. But they won’t. And Hughes and Kennedy havent impressed have they? Go away V.”
I know you’re just trolling, but there is a tiny point to be had.
Prospects are just that, prospects. You don’t know who’s going to pan out or not in advance. However, you do know who’s ‘higher ceiling’, and who’s more LIKELY to achieve said ceiling.
Kennedy is not a ‘high ceiling’ guy, however, he has (had) the makeup and polish that make that ceiling much more likely to be achieved. Hughes and Joba are
topceiling guys, each with pretty solid chances to achieve those ceilings.You don’t trade Hughes/Joba level prospects for rentals. They aren’t included, at all, and are never on the table to start with.
At the second tier of prospect are your Horne/Marquez level players. I’d say 1 out of every 2 or 3 pan out. But when making a trade, you sure as heck want to try to deal the one that DOESN’T pan out (which is obviously, impossible to tell in advance ;-)). It’s a numbers game, probability.
Of course, the best trades (on the part of the seller of ML talent for prospects) are the ones in which you unearth a gem – perhaps an undervalued pitching prospect that your pitching coach thinks can improve with a mechanics adjustment, etc.
The Blue Jays won’t be fighting for anything this year, and it’s a serious discredit to their management. A team dumb enough to outright release Frank Thomas after he gave them a 125 OPS+ last year won’t win. That’s inexcusable for a team that’s 12th in the AL in runs scored. Particularly when they’ve put together such a great rotation.
If Burnett turns it around, it’s a terrifying rotation. But they’ll need numbers like the ones Hamilton and Bradley are giving the Rangers out of Wells and Rolen. And that’s not happening.
Pepitone could only last so long not agreeing with sj. He held out ad long as he could
I think in the end, if Wang is out for the year, the Yankees end up getting someone in the Randy Wolf category. Someone that can fill in the way Shawn Chacon, Jon Lieber, Denny Neggle, and Aaron Small did. It won’t cost too much in terms of players or money and can be a very good replacement
“I’m not a doctor, but I play one on the LoHud Yankee Blog.”
-Unknown Blogger
V,
I agree with that approach. The Yankees have enough to put together a prospect laden deal for CC.
They just have to make sure their internal untouchables (Montero, AJax, Melancon, for example) are off the table. Which, IMO, will happen.
Cleveland is a good organization. They have been doing their due diligence for over a month with certain teams.
I have no doubt they know the Yankees farm system as well as the Yankees do by now.
Its just a matter of value. We don’t know how they value certain Yankee prospects.
I’ll give you an example. Justin Snyder is a second baseman/utility player in Charleston. A lot of scouts I know think he has a chance to be a very good ML player. Others think he is limited due to his size.
If for example, the Indians think he can be a player (I have no idea how they feel about him), that’s a guy they can put in a deal because Cano is young and contract controlled for the next 4 years.
If both teams have similar ideas on value, common ground usually gets reached. If they don’t, its hard to matchup.
“Isnt the system loaded??? Why can’t they trade Gor help now especially an ace in his prime? I’m baffled at anyone anti better starting pitching. Wake up”
Ok, the system’s loaded. I have a great idea: the Yankees should deal Hughes+Tabata for CC, then how about Horne+Marquez+Melancon+Cox+Montero for Harden+Blanton. Then Austin Jackson+Robertson for Fuentes.
Awesome, they get CC, Harden, Blanton, and Fuentes, and all they have to do is totally clear out their system, and start over from scratch!
V people like you give this board a bad name. You give out lame opinions you should take the heat. Instead of calling me a troll. Jerk
I think it important to remember the reason to have good prospects. One is the suppliement or later replace established players. The other is to deal from your strengths to get something the team needs to improve.
Boston could have said no to dealing for Beckett but they had depth in the minors and thought it worth the risk. He brought them a ring.
I’m not saying CC is Sandy Koufax. He is as close to a sure thing as there is in pitching. Sub 4 era, over 200 innings, and healthy.
Just think how good they could be with a CC, Wang, Joba, Hughes rotation.
There are few prospects who are, or should be, untouchable. It’s not really our goal to lead the league in ERA at Trenton and Scranton. Essentially, hold on to the absolute cream of the crop at each level, and cut anything else loose for a pitcher of Sabathia’s caliber.
If Alan Horne turns out to be Cy Young, well, you’re the Yankees and you can deal with it. And you traded for CC Sabthia.
More to the point, the Yankees are much better off than they were last year at this date. They’re 3.5 back of a Tampa team that will soon begin taking on water because the lineup’s not quite there. And our run differential is going to steadily improve (even without 13-0 days like yesterday). I would bet that within 30 days, our run differential will suggest an even pythag record with TB. I think we’ll pass them within 6 weeks and leave them in the dust within 8. No one in that lineup is underperforming (keep in mind that Pena is 30 and had one great year), and Hinske is more than making up for Pena’s disappointing start.
To V,
double * middle finger *
Exactly, on the differing value front. I, admittedly, have no idea how these deals get made (do the Indians say we want 4 of these 10 players? 1 of these 3, then 2 of these 4, then 1 of these 5? or do they specify we want
thisplayer included, or no deal).SJ why to you waste ur time with people who don’t get it even if u explain it ten times? People here think prospects are all gold. U will never convince them otherwise no matter how smart it is
“Only Randy Johnson was acquired via trade.” OK, but you know darn well what I mean.
Relax, this is a great baseball discussion. No right or wrong answer. Some people, even great execs would not trade their prospects (dodgers) others move very quickly (tigers).
Don’t take the diff in opinions personally.
Why don’t you try providing an argument, Bell, instead of standing on the sidelines sniping?
I agree with Sj44 and V, because they make good, solid, well thought out arguments, something you seem allergic to.
I fully, totally agree with SJ44’s 11:10 am post.
And I watched CC pitch against the Dads yesterday. He was, in a one word answer, phenomenal. He has a mid-2 ERA over his last 11 starts.
He is big, don’t get me wrong. But I don’t see him as ‘David Wells-obese’, to be polite. He just l