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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Waiting for news on Wang

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 16, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yesterday was only the second time since he turned professional that Chien-Ming Wang ran the bases and as far as I know, the second time since high school. The irony? The run he scored was the first in something like 10 years.

Pitchers with American League organizations don’t pick up a bat in the minor leagues. Then MLB throws them out there for nine interleague games. It doesn’t make much sense.

“We run all the time,” Mike Mussina said. “But we run in straight lines on the outfield grass. It’s not the same.”

Mussina mentioned that the Yankee pitchers had taken BP but not practiced running the bases. Would that have helped? Probably not. Why risk injury in practice? Wang just caught a bad break.

I had been kidding him for several days that he was going to hit a home run yesterday because he had a few in BP. “I might not swing,” he said. “I’ll just watch.”

He probably wishes he did.

No words yet on when the Yankees will reveal the extent of Wang’s injury. But based on what was learned in the clubhouse and through other sources, it doesn’t look good. Getting on a flight home now but when I get the news, I’ll post it here.

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469 Responses to “Waiting for news on Wang”

  1. pete-san June 16th, 2008 at 7:12 am

    Pete, I’m out here for the summer in Tokyo and without your blog there’s no way I’d be getting my Yank fix. Wang is well known out here in Japan too. Here’s hoping he returns this season. If not, I expect Cashman already knows what he’s gonna do. I agree with your thoughts – make Geise a starter.

  2. Fat Free June 16th, 2008 at 7:32 am

    what a joke.

    CM got off on the Wang foot?

    I know asians are bad drivers, but I didn’t know they were also bad runners.

    Torre vigil continues – lost 5 in a row, and the dodgers are 7 games below .500

  3. PL June 16th, 2008 at 7:37 am

    We should just have our pitchers stand there and not swing. I was worried on Friday with Joba, but turns out to be Wang that got hurt.

    It’s not worth the risk.

  4. TAIWANESE June 16th, 2008 at 7:39 am

    Pete,THANKS.
    God bless WANG!!!
    GO YANKEE…..
    GO WANG…….

  5. Doreen June 16th, 2008 at 7:40 am

    You know, Pete, Wang was on base only because he failed to put down a good bunt, and yet the bunt wasn’t bad enough to be a double play. :( Sometimes things just happen.

    I don’t like interleague play for several reasons, but one of them is, because I’m an AL fan primarily, I don’t like the unfamiliar position in which the pitchers are placed. All you’re hoping for is that they don’t get hurt. As was pointed out by Girardi on that “Joe Girardi Show” on YES, even swinging and missing by a pitcher can be dicey. And taking BP for a while before interleague games is not the same as having played on offense every start.

    Realistically, you can’t just have your pitchers stand at the plate and take 3 strikes, unless the situation allows it, of course. The idea is still to score runs and be offensively productive with the the goal of actually winning a game. Also, realistically, you can’t have a pitcher not slide or run on the basepaths. And even if you could, these are competitive athletes with a desire to do well whatever situation they’re in, so even if you TELL them not to do something, instincts will take over.

    I’m hoping against hope that it’s not a season-ending injury; but even if not, it’s certain that we won’t be seeing Wang pitch for at least a couple, 2-3 weeks, from the looks of things.

  6. Doreen June 16th, 2008 at 7:44 am

    PL -

    My inclination is to say the pitchers shouldn’t swing, but then your team is literally giving up an out every time the pitchers spot comes up, which is inherently unfair.

    It’s surprising to me that the AL has done so well in interleague play, but I’d be interested to know, what’s the record of the AL when playing in NL parks? Are they still as dominant?

    Frankly, I don’t see the downside of just having a DH in all interleague games no matter where the home field is.

  7. sunny615 June 16th, 2008 at 7:44 am

    crap.

  8. Fat Free June 16th, 2008 at 7:45 am

    the price for C.C. Sabathia will be too high.

    I rather call up clemens then trade multiple players for CC.

  9. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 7:46 am

    Can you ask Meachem if when he woke this morning there was a horses head next to him?

  10. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 7:47 am

    fat free…. you have to be kidding.

    Dear Montero, how could you even write that as a joke?

  11. Y's Guy June 16th, 2008 at 8:06 am

    give me a break, torre’s not getting fired. mc court and the dodgers dont operate that way.

  12. sunny615 June 16th, 2008 at 8:07 am

    When does RObertson get a call to fill the hole in the pen?

    Robertson NYPost Story

  13. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 8:14 am

    Wow… Great column I just read, talking about the complete 180 that Sox fans have done (and become) since Oct. 2004.

    Not to go all Trisha (anti-Sox) on y’all. But its a funny read.

    http://www.philly.com/inquirer.....untry.html

  14. TKinDC June 16th, 2008 at 8:15 am

    Do you know what Cleveland really needs? Kyle Farnsworth is what they need. And, and, and LaTroy Hawkins! Yeah, that’s the ticket!

    Seriously, I was against trading Robbie for CC and probably still am, but this makes it much more attractive than it was when i woke up yesterday morning.

  15. YanksAngel June 16th, 2008 at 8:17 am

    on a lighter note…

    Has anyone watched the Yankees on Deck videos they have on the Yes website now, with Mo and Jorge playing ‘How well do you know your teamamte’?

    I’d put the link but everytime I link something it gets blocked.

    Just go to the Yesnetwork site and click on Yankees. It’s on the front page.

    Very cute!!

  16. Y's Guy June 16th, 2008 at 8:21 am

    put it on the wrong thread:

    i say go with giese on sunday, meantime karstens will get 2 more starts at scranton, and if he’s healthy, he becomes plan b. if that doesnt work out, kennedy will be ready to become plan c. and theres still patterson, horne and others. this is why we’ve been building up all this pitching depth. whoever it is, the offense will have to support the guy with some runs.

    i say we can fill wang’s spot from within.

  17. TKinDC June 16th, 2008 at 8:21 am

    Great article bronxbomber – thanks for the tip.

    Even when the Patriots win – you can sometimes hear those fans chant YANKEES SUCK

    (no offense to our P-fan Blogfather of course)

  18. Doreen June 16th, 2008 at 8:23 am

    YanksAngel -

    I saw that! Do Jorge and Mo do it on every episode? It was really fun and light-hearted.

  19. Russell NY June 16th, 2008 at 8:24 am

    “I’m hoping against hope that it’s not a season-ending injury; but even if not, it’s certain that we won’t be seeing Wang pitch for at least a couple, 2-3 weeks, from the looks of things.”

    I’ll sign up for 2-3 weeks in a heartbeat Doreen.

  20. YanksAngel June 16th, 2008 at 8:26 am

    I don’t know Doreen. That’s the first time I saw it.

    Jorge forgot he can count to 5 in English :) :)

  21. Brent (This Damon Guy's For Real, Huh?) June 16th, 2008 at 8:27 am

    I know people are afraid to replace Wang with Kennedy, but how about the following scenario:

    Say Wang is out for 2-3 months..Yankees sign Freddy Garcia and in 1-2 more weeks Kennedy is ready to pitch..I say let Dan Geise at least TRY and start in the majors (or replace Geise with McCutchen, Horne, Marquez, etc.) and if he (or they) are immediate failures, try your luck with Garcia…We all know that Kennedy has a great look to him but hasn’t found his niche this year..This option would give us a bunch of options while spending money only on Garcia and not trading away the farm (and possibly Cano, Hughes, Melky, etc) for C.C. Sabathia.

    I know it takes good talent to trade for good talent (Sabathia’s a Cy Young winner, after all), but I don’t want the Yankees to go into an extreme defensive mode by trading away Cano or any other top player..If Melky is traded, Gardner could replace him easily enough, but do we really awent Alberto Gonzalez as our starting 2nd baseman?

    In short: Take your chances with the 5-6 guys you already have as well as Freddy Garcia/Randy Wolf..

    No giant future-killing trades.
    Alright, that’s it. I’m done rambling.

  22. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 8:35 am

    sunny615 nice job on the Robertson link I almost missed it. :)

  23. Doreen June 16th, 2008 at 8:35 am

    YanksAngel -

    THAT was absolutely hysterical! Oh, yeah, English. :lol:

    Russell NY -

    Until the actual news comes out, I’m gonna be a cockeyed optimist and stick to the 2-3 weeks. :)

  24. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 8:38 am

    You can forget about Freddy Garcia he right now is topping out at 85 mph and he won’t sign until late July and would require after signing atleast a month and a half in minor league ball to work up his arm strength. At the end your getting a guy that won’t top over 92 mph in September.

  25. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 8:49 am

    IMO, if Wang is out for the season, as is being speculated, you either get a guy who can be a front of the rotation guy (Sabathia, Harden, Sheets… maybe an Aaron Cook or Chris Young or Matt Cain, none of whom are probably available) or dont bother.

    Wolf is injury prone, but only gives you around league average when on the mound.

    will it cost more for Harden than for Wolf? most assuredly, but while he’s just as injury prone, at least he’s a difference maker on the mound when healthy.

  26. bphill June 16th, 2008 at 8:50 am

    man, this waiting is killing me.

  27. Bronx bomber June 16th, 2008 at 8:51 am

    fat free, you’re an idiot. Keep your stupid jokes and ethnic stereotype comments to yourself. Fans come here to read about the Yankees and baseball news. Wang just went out with a serious injury and could be out for the season. This is a big deal to real Yankee fans. Show some respect for this unfortunate situation.

  28. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 8:53 am

    “man, this waiting is killing me.”

    and it’s going to be a while today, i would imagine, before any new info is released.

    and i have a feeling that even when they do release info, we’re still not really going to know much.

    if Cashman knows Wang is going to be out for an extended period of time, he’s certainly not going to be forthright with that info… bc then even if he wants to make a deal, teams are going to hold out for a complete ransom knowing what kind of position he’s in.

  29. Brent (This Damon Guy's For Real, Huh?) June 16th, 2008 at 8:54 am

    BRING

    BACK

    BOOMER!

    (kidding)

  30. Brent (This Damon Guy's For Real, Huh?) June 16th, 2008 at 8:56 am

    if Cashman knows Wang is going to be out for an extended period of time, he’s certainly not going to be forthright with that info… bc then even if he wants to make a deal, teams are going to hold out for a complete ransom knowing what kind of position he’s in.

    Good point..But they still usually give some information. How else would we have heard the words “season-ending surgery” millions of times if every general manager was afraid of releasing too much info?

  31. pat June 16th, 2008 at 8:56 am

    YanksAngel and Doreen

    The Jorge/Mo thing is a huge hit in our house. They do it every week and some of them are hysterical.

    The funny banter between them on the “Would Jorge take the last cookie from the plate” question is well worth a watch if you can find a video of it.

  32. vinny-b June 16th, 2008 at 8:59 am

    if Interleague play is to continue, then BOTH teams need to utilize the DH.

    problem solved.

    end of story.

  33. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 9:01 am

    You know what the old decrepit Warner Wolfe said this morning;

    “Wang hurt his foot running the bases because American league pitchers don’t know how to run the bases, you never see a National Leauge pitcher get hurt running the bases, the American League should get rid of the dh.

    Um yeah great logic, we should however get rid of interleague, but that is another story for another day.

  34. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 9:05 am

    “How else would we have heard the words “season-ending surgery” millions of times if every general manager was afraid of releasing too much info?”

    people undercutting the GM’s authority by going public with private info, or beat-writers going out on a limb to speculate for the chance they actually get it right.

  35. Y's Guy June 16th, 2008 at 9:07 am

    i know there’s a bunch of karsten haters on this board, but i think he’s going to help us out of this situation. there were also a ton of rasner haters here and that worked out pretty good. karstens has the most mlb experience of our minor league guys, he’s around the same age as rasner and he deserves a shot. he got off to to a bad start after coming back from his latest injury, but he pitched great last wednesday and i think he’s pitching for scranton tonight. that puts him right in line to replace wang on saturday or take one more start at scranton while they give giese a shot. he’s helped us out of a jam before and i think he can be the guy to fill this hole if its not a season ending injury.

  36. Fat Free June 16th, 2008 at 9:08 am

    wow.

    david wells is unsigned?

    I’m surprised. he did quite well last year with the Dodgers.

    His return would be a big boost and he’s a lefty.

  37. sunny615 June 16th, 2008 at 9:08 am

    It goes both ways. Depending on which stadium they play in. when they play in AL parks, NL teams play by AL rules (using a DH), and vice versa.

    Wang should have just stood there and took 3 pitches.

  38. darth daddy June 16th, 2008 at 9:09 am

    i will repost here what i posted earlier for those who might be interested…

    prediction. no doubt Wang has a Lisfranc injury (a la Bruney). i really, really hope I am wrong. it is an injury centered in the middle of your foot. the foot consists of 3 approximate sections: hindfoot (heel), forefoot (the toes) and midfoot (in between or the “arch”). the Lisfranc injury really has to do with the underside of the arch rather than the top of the foot. would explain more but probably not necessary unless someone had an overwhelming desire to know. in a pinch, you can Google or yahoo it, maybe even run your search with “lisfranc injury patient information.” i do that all the time. it can definitely help. Lisfranc was another cool character in 19th century medicine (back then if u noticed something u got the chance to stamp your name on it, sort of like William Ostler, Karl Langer, etc)… a surgeon in Napoleon’s army. the Lisranc inj centers about the tarsometatarsal articulation of the foot, i.e., the midfoot. when u stand on the ball of your foot, you can feel the pressure building in the Lisfranc area of your foot. sometimes you actually attempt to complete xrays w/ patients standing in just such a position. imagine the discomfort. : )

    would actually be very surprised if wang did not have a Lisfranc injury. pain, swelling and his being unable to even walk veritably suggests it. let’s hope it is a grade 1 or 2 w/ no fx or fx-disloc. usually w/ any sprain, grade 1 = stretching the ligament. grade 3 = full tear or injury of the ligament. grade 2 = somewhere in between.

    we can hope wang has a 1 or 2. you KNOW they did an xray which is not very helpful most of the time. that is why he will undergo an MRI. sometimes it is glaringly apparent, but those instances are rare. that means he will probably be out 3-4 weeks. he will be casted. funny enough, during the game i was thinking things are starting to turn around b/c they finally are starting to hit w/ some decent starting pitching. i also thought wang should have stayed on 3rd, but it was not meacham’s fault as pete a. alluded to earlier. this was a problem waiting to happen. who is to say that wang during any sort of running exercise might not have experienced similar discomfort. but i was thinking a couple bench moves… voila. stronger team. not. if wang has a fx (fracture) or fx-disloc, then he will probably require surgery (then he will be out for 10-12 weeks at the least). could be back in time for late Aug or even Sept (??). who knows. complications abound w/ these types of injuries.

    do not know who the yanks use. could use Dr. William Hamilton @ Roosevelt (St. Luke’s-Roosevelt). he is the big foot guy in the city. athletes from all over the US travel to see him. some would call him the James Andrews of feet. he has taken care of Emmitt Smith, Scottie Pippen, big Eric Williams (am a HUGE Cowboys fan! down w/ Big Blue. got lucky, right?)… (could also swear he took care of that loser Charles Smith, who could not score in the paint against the Bulls… clang w/ NO FOULS CALLED!).

    the yanks will be as they will be. cannot worry about it now. the question is will they make that move for CC? who knows. will make for good drama. i will be checking in on mlbtraderumors regularly.

  39. Y's Guy June 16th, 2008 at 9:11 am

    hey, there’s alot of people who want the dh gone, they have a valid point too. remember, there are 16 nl teams and only 14 al teams so a vote will not favor the dh.

    fay vincent was on MMD advocating getting rid of the d.h. last week.

    personally i like the d.h. and interleague play, but id like to see them switch it so there is no dh in al parks and a dh in nl parks so people get to see how the game is played in the other league.

  40. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 9:12 am

    Did anyone know what a Lisfranc injury was until Bruney or Strahan had it? So please with the amateur Md’s stop trying to diagonois the injury.

  41. sunny615 June 16th, 2008 at 9:14 am

    From MLBtraderumors:

    The Indians are “thoroughly scouting” eight teams that may be interested in C.C. Sabathia, including the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, and Dodgers (the Mets may be another). Gammons agrees with Ken Rosenthal that Mark Shapiro may trade Sabathia soon to maximize his value. Gammons does not see the Yanks jumping in with Phil Hughes or a multi-prospect offer, unless Chien-Ming Wang’s injury forces their hand. He does not think the Cubs or Phillies have the goods, but suggests the Rangers as a dark horse.

  42. Fran June 16th, 2008 at 9:15 am

    I hope that Wang is not out for an extended period of time. But if he is the farm system that Cashman stocked up on will come very much into play – either to bring up replacements for Wang or to use as trade bait for an established starter.

  43. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 9:15 am

    If darth daddy has to repost another one of those it is Lisfranc injury ala Bruney posts when nothing is for certain I’m gonna get very angry here. We saw it the first time.

    Meanwhile Tyler Kepner

    The injury is to the top of Wang’s foot, the same general area that reliever Brian Bruney injured when he tripped while covering first base in April. Bruney was found to have a Lisfranc injury and is expected to miss a minimum of three months.

    Wang has symptoms of the same injury, including swelling and the inability to bear weight on the foot; he left Minute Maid Park on crutches, in a soft cast. Bruney’s injury was in the middle of the foot, and Wang’s is believed to be in the webbing of his toes, between his big toe and second toe.

    Medical isn’t my major but that does not sound like Lisfranc to me.

  44. Y's Guy June 16th, 2008 at 9:16 am

    darth, what are you medical qualifications and doesnt a simple bone fracture also present with pain, swelling and an inability to stand on your foot? (mine did)

    and even if you are a doctor how can you make a diagnosis without even seeing the patient?

    such speculation at this point is ridiculous.

  45. sunny615 June 16th, 2008 at 9:17 am

    ps – MLBTR got it from Gammon’s ESPN insider blog:

    If you are an ESPN Insider, you can see the story here

  46. Fat Free June 16th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    darth daddy-

    sounds like you’re a foot fetisht.

  47. Brent (This Damon Guy's For Real, Huh?) June 16th, 2008 at 9:24 am

    Like Darth, I’m going to try my hand at 21st century medicine with the following diagnosis:

    Wang has Athlete’s Foot. I know this conclusion may come as a surprise to some of you, but because Wang was a great pitcher big-time performer for the Yankees, it was only a matter of time until Athlete’s Foot got around to him.

    At this point and time, it doesn’t seem as though surgery will be necessary, but a constant application of Tough-Actin’ Tinactin as well as prescription creams should clear it up within 4-6 weeks.

  48. Guiseppe Franco June 16th, 2008 at 9:26 am

    It’s funny to read the medical experts here talk about Lisfranc injuries when 99% of them had never heard of it just two months ago.

  49. TKinDC June 16th, 2008 at 9:28 am

    “Wang has Athlete’s Foot”

    No way! If you watched those commercials, you would know that Athletes foot (also known as footus, athleticus, itchimus maximus) presents as a foot on flames with cartoon characters running all over it.

    It is true b/c I saw it on TV

  50. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 9:30 am

    It’s funny to read the medical experts here talk about Lisfranc injuries when 99% of them had never heard of it just two months ago.

    We can all thank Kim Jones for this.

  51. Fat Free June 16th, 2008 at 9:34 am

    How come women walk around in uncomfortable, outrageous heels and never need lisfranc surgery?

    PS GO Tie0ger

  52. morning star June 16th, 2008 at 9:35 am

    Don’t worry fellow Yankee fans, Carl Pavano is on the way! (LOL)

  53. V June 16th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    Re: Kernan’s Robertson article:

    “Last June, I wrote about another young pitcher in the New York Yankees system who was better than Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy, even though those two pitchers were getting all the pub. His name was Joba Chamberlain.”

    I did some looking, and the closest thing to a Kevin Kernan article from June, 2007 was: http://www.nypost.com/seven/07.....htm?page=1

    There’s nothing close to writing “about another young pitcher in the New York Yankees system who was better than Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy”.

    Talk about trying to take credit for something you didn’t write…

  54. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 9:38 am

    I’m so nervous about Wang. :(

    I wonder how many times we will hear the name Bronson Arroyo on Mike and the Mad Dog today? :|

  55. JD(Duncan's arm bashes still hurt) June 16th, 2008 at 9:38 am

    “Don’t worry fellow Yankee fans, Carl Pavano is on the way! (LOL)”- Just writing that prob caused Pavano to reinjure himself.

  56. V June 16th, 2008 at 9:39 am

    There also was an amusing Joel Sherman article from last June/July in which he asked 8 MLB ‘executives’ about a Hughes+Chamberlain for Santana swap, and 1 said the Yankees shouldn’t do it, 1 said the Twins shouldn’t, and 6 said definitely do it.

    Something about a ‘potential front line starter and a power reliever’. :lol:

  57. pat June 16th, 2008 at 9:41 am

    A real doctor in Texas looked at the foot and said further tests are needed but writers and fans with limited medical knowledge and never having even seen the foot know what’s wrong with it. That makes sense. :smile:

  58. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 9:50 am

    v- email him and call him out on it.

  59. LibertyBelle June 16th, 2008 at 9:51 am

    Wang’s injury is, of course, unfortunate, but it was a freak thing. I grew up primarily watching the NL, and I hate the DH. I don’t see that there’s a real reason to change the way inter-league happens. It’s a never-ending discussion, but I’m all for doing away with the DH entirely.

    On a more positive note, Yadier Molina seems to be ok after that scary play with Bruntlett yesterday.

  60. Brad June 16th, 2008 at 9:56 am

    Sunny615 ;

    Gammons will ALWAYS say his Red Sux have an interest in a player the Yankees are rumored to thinking about with the idea that the Yankees weaken themselves by having to up the ante.
    It’s part of his role as a snitch to John Henry in having a luxury section at his favorite ballpark in the world.

  61. GreenBeret7 June 16th, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Since I actually have a fairly good amount of medical experience because of my military 26 week medical training at Ft Houston, Texas as part of my Special Forces duties, I can spot this injury a mile away. I’ve seen it often. We medical personnel classify it as an ouchie. Just thought I’d join everyone else and put in my plugged nickel.

  62. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 10:00 am

    “I’m hoping against hope that it’s not a season-ending injury; but even if not, it’s certain that we won’t be seeing Wang pitch for at least a couple, 2-3 weeks, from the looks of things.”

    My sentiments exactly Doreen.

  63. JohnC June 16th, 2008 at 10:02 am

    David Wells is the answer!!!!! What a story that would be! Wells comes riding in like a knight in shining armor to step in for Wang and save the season.

  64. Dee June 16th, 2008 at 10:02 am

    I wonder if some people are throwing out the word Lisfranc just to give the speculation more authority and credibility. Until recently no one has heard of Lisfranc. What are the chances that 2 Yankees are inflicted by the same rare foot injury in a matter of 2 months?

    Bruney got it because he slipped off the bag in a strange angle. Wang, according to Moose who talked to him, said he hurt his foot while running on the grass from 3rd to home. So I’m holding out hope that it won’t be the same thing. Also, how often does someone sustain serious foot injuries from running on flat grass that keep them out for 4 months? I hope of all people, this kind of worst case freak accident doesn’t happen to a reliable workhorse like Wang.

  65. bphill June 16th, 2008 at 10:02 am

    V…… keep looking, I’ll do it for you…

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/06.....115501.htm

  66. darth daddy June 16th, 2008 at 10:04 am

    suffice it to say that when you sustain an injury or are ill (with your runny noses and fevers, fractures, surgical emergencies, pediatric emergencies and heart attacks) you come in to see me. i have seen numerous pt’s in the past w/ similar injuries and have diagnosed lisfranc injuries. maybe i will be wrong (i hope i will being a yankee fan), but wang’s presentation is almost classic for lisfranc injuries. nuff said. next time i will keep my mouth shut and go back to reading the blog and saving the comments. thanks GreenBeret7. dead on point.

  67. Dee June 16th, 2008 at 10:05 am

    “I’m hoping against hope that it’s not a season-ending injury; but even if not, it’s certain that we won’t be seeing Wang pitch for at least a couple, 2-3 weeks, from the looks of things.”

    I think the Yankees will be breaking out the champagne and maybe even cookies and ice-cream if they hear it’s only 2-3 weeks.

  68. Yazman (aka David) June 16th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    Although I have an AL rules bias and like the DH, there’s also a good argument to be made against it.

    But it sure does seem that any game would be better served with just ONE set of rules for both leagues (and ideally for minors, college and high school, too).

  69. GreenBeret7 June 16th, 2008 at 10:07 am

    Sorry, John C, but, I just can’t get the picture of David Wells riding to the rescue in armor splattered with taco sauce and beer stains, while mounted on a Belgian Draft Horse (only horse big enough for him). That wouldn’t exactly give me warm fuzzies.

  70. ogerp jr June 16th, 2008 at 10:07 am

    I’m 20 game mini plan owner. I received my pre sale password, Friday.

    Is anyone else having issues with their password?

    “The password you entered is not in our system.”

    This is all a bit too suspect for me.

  71. ANdy in Sunny Daytona June 16th, 2008 at 10:13 am

    Turf toe.

    I blame Jeter for this entire situation. He is always so greedy. Whether it be starletts or base hits, all that he wants is more and more.

    Or…..this is probably Cano’s fault.

    Or…..Damon’s fault, we should have DFA’d him when he had a chance, Giambi too.

  72. MP June 16th, 2008 at 10:13 am

    Same here

  73. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 10:15 am

    “suffice it to say that when you sustain an injury or are ill (with your runny noses and fevers, fractures, surgical emergencies, pediatric emergencies and heart attacks) you come in to see me.”

    So let me get this straight, You’re a cardiologist/orthepedic surgeon/general medical practictioner/pediatrician?

    Wow, just wow. :shock:

    I never knew doctors had so many different specialities. Are you really Dr.Gregory House? Although even he doesn’t do his own surgeries.

  74. ANdy in Sunny Daytona June 16th, 2008 at 10:18 am

    Raymagnetic,

    I’m glad that you have your registerd trademark back. When you don’t have it, I feel like you are a Canal Street knockoff.

  75. darth daddy June 16th, 2008 at 10:19 am

    it is called emergency medicine. first line of defense. and no i am no gregory house as i do not abuse vicodin. next time i will shut my hole and read comments only.

  76. Fat Free June 16th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    ANdy-

    Jeter is greedy, that’s why he has tax problems.

  77. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 10:27 am


    Raymagnetic,

    I’m glad that you have your registerd trademark back. When you don’t have it, I feel like you are a Canal Street knockoff.”

    This is very funny. On weekends I generally use a different computer so the trademark goes away.

  78. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 10:32 am

    how do you get the trademark, anyway/

  79. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 10:34 am

    V,

    This is the Kernan article here when he discusses Chamberlain.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/06.....htm?page=0

  80. Fat Free June 16th, 2008 at 10:34 am

    copy n pasteâ„¢

  81. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 10:36 am

    TurnTwo,

    Cut and pasted from Microsoft Word symbols. Of course since I’ve told you my secret you do realize what I’ll have to do to you……….

  82. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 10:36 am

    Oh god get off the Bronson Arroyo BS it’s spreading ! No he is not worth Dellin Betances at all or McCallister :x

  83. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 10:39 am

    i understand, ray. do as you must.

    just say no to bronson arroyo. blech.

  84. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Seriously what is the fixation with Bronson Arroyo?

  85. Peter Rabbit June 16th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    The anticipation is killing me. News on Wang’s foot could drastically change this season.

    Who would have thought that this is how Monday would be spent? Just when the Yankees started pitching and hitting well, Cashman and Girardi’s roster tweaks started coming together.

    Why must this happen! Why can’t the Yankees have a stretch of games when no important player is injured?

    I await this news, wondering about Phil. Wondering about Ian. Wondering how many times we will need to call upon the journeymen pitchers in our farm system. The Aaron Smalls, the Dan Geises… How many times do we need to ask these players to over-perform? Will they this time?

    I hope that foot is okay, boy do I hope.

  86. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    If they are going to trade Betances or McAllister, its going to be for a helluva lot better pitcher than Bronson Arroyo.

  87. ANdy in Sunny Daytona June 16th, 2008 at 10:42 am

    A lot of people don’t realize that Kevin Kernan discovered Joba. He scouted him, signed him and taught him. Kernan is a genius.

  88. Baja June 16th, 2008 at 10:44 am

    Pitchers hitting, always cringeworthy. Thank the maker that Carl Pavano will be back soon.

  89. V June 16th, 2008 at 10:44 am

    What is with the injuries this year? I follow the Cardinals, and dangit, they’re getting bit with the injury bug also. Pujols -IS- their offense.

  90. ANdy in Sunny Daytona June 16th, 2008 at 10:45 am

    Arroyo would be the best rock star the Yanks have had since Black Jack McDowell.

    I would rather have a pitcher, but I’m picky.

    Bernie is a smooth jazz superstar.

  91. Nick in SF but now in Charlotte June 16th, 2008 at 10:45 am

    If the answer is Bronson Arroyo, the question is very depressing indeed.

  92. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 10:47 am

    “What is with the injuries this year? I follow the Cardinals, and dangit, they’re getting bit with the injury bug also. Pujols -IS- their offense.”

    Ryan Ludwick too

  93. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 10:47 am

    Now ESPN is trying to float Bedard and Meche…oh brother, I bet Aceves would be better than Meche, Teale said he tops out at 95 mph I didn’t know that.

  94. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 10:54 am

    Meche always had great stuff, but never put it all together arguably until last season in KC… but still, you’re taking on, what, another 3 years with that contract? Id rather get Greinke than Meche.

    Bedard would be interesting, but i doubt Seattle will move him before the end of the season. thats a big-time “my bad” call right there. if they leaned house in management, though, they might consider it.

  95. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 10:54 am

    ” next time i will shut my hole and read comments only.”

    Relax, darth daddy, no one is saying you cannot comment, they are simply surprised that someone claiming to have an MD is making a diagnosis without seeing the injury. My cousin is a doctor and whenever I ask him about some health problem, he may give me his opinion, but he always, always, tells me that that’s just a guess and I need to see my primary physician. That’s why we’re suspicious of your credentials.

    As far as the Wang situation, I vote move from within. If they make a deal for Sabathia that means the loss of many of our good young players, then the Yankees are back to their old ways and we will once again be a “one-and-done” franchise. I don’t want to just make the playoffs, I want a World Series championship.

  96. Matt June 16th, 2008 at 10:54 am

    This speculation is ridiculous about Wang. How would any “sources” or “journalists” know more than the doctors themselves?

    He hasn’t even had an MRI yet. If the doctors don’t even know, how would someone with zero medical training be so sure of it? All the post articles that he’s out for the season are just so ridiculous, and so is everyone else who keeps suggesting we trade for this pitcher and that. What if he only misses 2 starts? We just don’t know yet.

    And all the people who keep bringing up Lisfranc… had you even heard of one before Bruney? It’s a very rare injury, not just a diagnosis you hand out like candy. If he did have it, nobody would know anyway until the MRI, so to assume it at this point is just ridiculous.

    Wang actually scored on the play. Though he was helped off the field, it was under his own power. To suggest that he’s injured seriously because his foot “hurts” just doesn’t make any sense. If he were more seriously hurt, don’t you think he would have had trouble finishing the rest of the 60 feet to home plate more than he did?

  97. bphill June 16th, 2008 at 10:55 am

    I would love to see Aceves, he sounds great, but he is not on the 40 man roster,

    Dan McCutchen is not on the 40 man roster

    Jeff Marquez is on the 40 man roster (possibility)

    I would like to see Chase Wright start again, he is on the 40 man roster. why not him?

  98. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 10:57 am

    “I would like to see Chase Wright start again, he is on the 40 man roster. why not him?”

    he’s been out for a couple weeks now with a shoulder issue. no chance he’s making it up to contribute any time soon.

  99. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 10:57 am

    I would like to see Chase Wright start again, he is on the 40 man roster. why not him?

    shutdown precautionary reasons (shoulder)

  100. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    By the way, SJ44, you’ve been keeping a pretty close eye on the progress of McCutcheon, do you think he’s ready to make the move to the bigs now?

  101. JGNYC June 16th, 2008 at 10:59 am

    A page from the Billy Beane book of baseball:

    “The day you tell yourself you NEED to make a trade is the day you make a bad trade.”

    Let’s not hit the panic button just yet, and see how this whole thing develops.

  102. Bryan (Yankees fan) June 16th, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Lisfranc

    Bruney – 2008
    Strahan – 2006
    Justin Tuck – 2006
    Kevin Jones – 2007?
    Phil Simms – 1990

    etc etc

    Yea people have heard of the injury before

  103. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 11:01 am

    Brandon,

    A word of caution about prospects my friend. They aren’t all better options than guys who are established ML pitchers. They also all aren’t going to make it for a variety of reasons. Just look at this season with the Yankees as an example.

    What somebody tops out at in AA or A ball doesn’t necessarily translate to major league success.

    There are plenty of AA and A hitters who, truth be told, aren’t good hitters. That affects a pitchers line because often their stats show better than what they are. Its why scouting is so important. You have to have a solid handle on which guys stuff can translate to big league success and which can’t. Its more than the radar gun.

    If for example, the Yankees were to acquire Gil Meche, that is an upgrade from anybody they currently have in their minor league system who could pitch major league innings at this time.

    Aceves is a guy that becomes a valuable trade chip if the Yankees seek to go out and get a pitcher. He’s not going to fill in for Chien Ming Wang. Not now and not in the future.

    The Yankees aren’t the Marlins. One of the benefits of building up the farm system is to be able to trade guys to fill the needs at the major league level. They also have enough money to pay over slot for guys (Cole and Marshall in this years draft for example) to overcome what they lose in any trade they make this year.

    I don’t see Eric Bedard as an option because the guy has an awful reputation as a teammate as well as a chronic hip condition.

    I think somebody like Meche is an option. I also could see them making a big run at CC because there is no downside to a prospects only deal for CC. If he’s a rental, you get 2 draft picks and replenish what you lost in the trade.

    If he signs on long term, you have another ace in the fold.

    Cano wouldn’t be included in the deal because the Wang injury changes the Yankees position. If of course, he was ever an option at all.

    Short term, the Yankees will fill the need from within. If Wang’s injury is season ending? No doubt in my mind they will go outside the organization to fill the need.

  104. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Lisfranc is more common in football, point is no one would have thought Lisfranc until Kim Jones opened her damn mouth.

  105. Mark June 16th, 2008 at 11:04 am

    Shouldn’t the coaches prepare players a little better? The Yankees have had too many hamstring problems. Why?

    Why can’t pitchers practice running around bases? National League pitchers don’t get hurt, is it because they’re accustomed to running with spikes?

    It’s terrible that Wang was injured. Let’s hope the coaches can try to prevent any more tragedies.

  106. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 11:05 am

    SJ that’s understood but lets be honest Shapiro is not going to take pennies for CC, and he might think the same thing, right now they aren’t out of a playoff race, he’s going to attempt to make the playoffs w/ his rotation including CC and if he doesn’t get the deal he wants he’ll let CC walk for the 2 draft picks.

  107. Bryan (Yankees fan) June 16th, 2008 at 11:06 am

    I didn’t hear Kim Jones but it was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw it

    I am no doctor and I didn’t go broadcasting it to everyone but it was the first thing that I thought about when I saw him pointing to his foot

    Probably because it would be the worst case scenario to lose our best starter for the rest of the year

    I am however hoping that it is athletes foot, though

  108. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 11:07 am

    “Cano wouldn’t be included in the deal because the Wang injury changes the Yankees position. If of course, he was ever an option at all.
    Short term, the Yankees will fill the need from within. If Wang’s injury is season ending? No doubt in my mind they will go outside the organization to fill the need.” – SJ44

    What’s make you so sure Cano wouldn’t be included, or Hughes, or Kennedy, or Melky, or a whole lot of other good young players and prospects? You have said repeatedly that the Yankees were going to stick with the plan of building the team from within. In order to get CC they will have to give up “the farm” and you, of all people, know that.

  109. Pete V June 16th, 2008 at 11:09 am

    Brandon – Lisfranc was the first thing that I thought when I saw him pull up limp. I have no basis for that, it was just my immediate reaction. And you are right, it is much more common in football. It pretty much ended Duce Staley’s career.

  110. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 11:10 am

    If I was in a position of power with the Yankees, I would do the following:

    1. Put Giese in the rotation and call up David Robertson to replace Giese in the bullpen. That solves the problem for the short term. I wouldn’t call up McCutchen because he has only pitched one good game in AAA since his recall. I would hope he pitches more good games to build up his value (whether its for a trade or a later callup) at this time.

    2. If the injury to Wang is long term (ie: greater than 60 days), put him on the 60 DL so Robertson can be added to the 40 man roster. If they don’t want to do that right now, either trade (they are shopping him heavily) Hawkins for anything you can get right now or DFA him. He has no role on the team with the emergence of Ramirez and Veras and its not worth tying up a roster spot, which is probably the only thing keeping Robertson in the minors right now.

    2. Prepare a list of guys in the system who would be available in a CC deal. He’s the guy to get if you can do it. If not, then you look at the next level (Meche-type) options.

    3. Monitor Freddie Garcia. He’s working out in Miami everyday and I believe he has another workout for teams scheduled shortly. If he shows any ability to be able to get outs, sign him. That’s a money only deal and even if you overpay, you are the Yankees. Its not a big deal to waste money on a pitcher. Hell, they wasted 46 million on Kei Igawa. Overpaying for a half season of Freddie Garcia is a no lose situation. Regardless of what the radar gun reading are, the guy can pitch. They just have to feel comfortable he can get big league hitters out.

  111. Dalers June 16th, 2008 at 11:11 am

    No one over values prospects like thus forum.

  112. Mike June 16th, 2008 at 11:13 am

    sj44 being inconsistent???? I don’t believe it! I wonder if sj will advocate cutting giambi again or trading Damon.

  113. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 11:14 am

    SJ Freddy is throwing 85 mph at HardBall camp in Miami, the talk is he won’t be ready until after the AllStar break late July. And he would need a month and a half atleast in minor league arm tuning. I would look away from him.

  114. Dalers June 16th, 2008 at 11:16 am

    No one knows what Shapiro will take for a FA to be. Stop assuming it will be four A level guys. We have no clue.

  115. Vader June 16th, 2008 at 11:16 am

    Why do they have to give up the farm?

    The Indians know that if they don’t trade him he will most likely leave via FA. If they are able to get 2-3 prospects that are ready for the ML in a year or two it would be better than waiting 3-4 years for a draftee.

    The only thing that has changed in the equation is Wang. If he is out for the year the Indians will hold the Yankees up, knowing that they may be desperate.

  116. ItalianGreco June 16th, 2008 at 11:17 am

    SJ,

    Couldn’t agree more. I think if the Yankees lost 5 out 6 or so on this road trip, maybe they don’t think about making a move. But since they played well, the front office will more likely make a move since there is light at the end of the tunnel.

  117. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 11:17 am

    I appreciate your argument SJ44, good points all, but you didn’t answer my question. If they trade most of our good young players for Sabathia, is that not a retreat from the plan you said they would never go back on.

    And don’t use the Wang injury as a reason. Injuries are a part of the game, there are no guarantees that any player will go through a season injury free. If you believe in your plan, you should stick with it – agreed?

  118. sean lee June 16th, 2008 at 11:17 am

    Man, the MLB season would probably be over in taiwan if wang is really out for the season. It’s ok, as good neighbors, we’ll still root for igawa!!

  119. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 11:17 am

    Brandon thinks every Yank prospect will be a future All Star.

  120. Brent (This Damon Guy's For Real, Huh?) June 16th, 2008 at 11:19 am

    Fact: All Yankees prospects will become superstars. Just wait until we unleash our 2010 10-Man Rotation!

  121. William Buckner June 16th, 2008 at 11:19 am

    I have a couple of thoughts. First, to trade for CC will be a two way street. First included are teams w/ prospect, second are teams that can afford his extension. That’s not too many teams.

    Will it cost the farm, no, didn’t for the Mets and Santana. Plus the Yankees have a surplus of young pitching talent. Not every one of them will be big leaguers and even if the were you can’t run out a 9 man rotation.

    Indians would help themselves best long term to strike will the iron is hot. The longer they wait, the less they can get back. Even to hold on for the draft picks isn’t as valuable as one might think. That late the best players are signability guys, which for them may be a stretch, assuming a winning team signs him in off season.

  122. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 11:20 am

    No one knows what Shapiro will take for a FA to be. Stop assuming it will be four A level guys. We have no clue.

    We actually do just check Bartolo Colon deal for reference, he outfleeced Omar Minaya and the worse deal he’s ever made was Bradon Philips to Cincy and that’s because ownership forced him to do it because Philips was becoming a nuisance and developed a dogging attitude.

  123. V June 16th, 2008 at 11:20 am

    You don’t deal from a place of weakness. You don’t.

    If the Indians ask for something insane (Hughes+Tabata+Jackson+Montero) (and heck, why not?), you hang up and wait for them to call back.

  124. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 11:21 am

    Cleveland isn’t trading Sabathia until late July if at all. I can almost guarantee that.

    The Yanks should go with Giese for now, if he bombs go to McCutchen or Karstens. Kennedy will be ready soon. If Wang is out for the year the Yanks should make a trade. If not, they shouldn’t. I’m not a big fan of Meche but hes an option I suppose. Maybe trade for Ben Sheets, he’s injury prone but maybe the Yanks could get half a season out of him.

  125. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 11:21 am

    Brandon thinks every Yank prospect will be a future All Star.

    No I really don’t. BTW Don’t know what this post is suppose to mean or contribute at that.

  126. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 11:21 am

    “The only thing that has changed in the equation is Wang. If he is out for the year the Indians will hold the Yankees up, knowing that they may be desperate.” – Vader

    Exactly!! And by the way, which team will want to help the Yankees when they are in desperation mode. They will gut us if they suspect the organization is desperate.

  127. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 11:21 am

    Pepitone,

    The Wang injury changes things because they need all the offense they can get. Its why I don’t think Cano would be included in the deal.

    If Wang was healthy and they went after CC, perhaps that’s a different story.

    The injury changes everything for the Yankees. They could make a prospect laden deal for CC because, even if he was a rental, the draft picks they would get when they lose him allows them to replenish the system.

    Brandon,

    Shapiro only has to get greater value than his draft picks in order to trade CC. He’s not going to fleece anybody because there isn’t a big market for CC on the trade front.

    Very few teams have enough prospects to offer for a rental guy and be able to offset the loss of them when he bolts.

    The Yankees and Red Sox can absorb it. The Rangers aren’t going to do it because they can’t beat the Angels even with Sabathia this year. The Rays aren’t going to do it, even though they have the prospects, because pitching is not their weakness.

    The Dodgers don’t make deals like this. They won’t trade him within their division. The Brewers concievably could do the deal. I don’t know if they have the stomach for it though.

    If for example, the Yankees sent Horne or McCutchen, Betances and Tabata to Cleveland for CC, that’s something Shapiro has to think about.

    He is going to have to fill 2, perhaps 3 slots in his rotation next year. Byrd and CC are FA’s. Westbrook will miss most of next year with TJ Surgery. Horne or McCutchen gives him a young starter to put in the rotation.

    Tabata and Betances are the kind of high end prospects that makes one re-think keeping the draft choices for CC.

    Ironically, given the current situation in NY and the depth in the system, the Yankees could absorb the prospect losses on the trade and be ok. Something that couldn’t be said 3 years ago.

    If you want to expand the deal and add Gardner, and take back a veteran bat for the bench like Dellucci in return, that’s another option.

    The Yankees have to give up something to get something for a guy like CC.

    Its a matter of prioritizing the guys in the system you feel you must keep no matter what.

    IMO, those should be the following: Hughes, Melancon, Brackman, Austin Jackson, Montero, and perhaps Humberto Sanchez or David Robertson. Depending on what they see their future roles as in NY. After that, every other guy can be put in the mix, depending on what form the deal takes.

  128. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 11:21 am

    The yanks only plan has been to win a championship. I think they will do everything they can to improve the team right now. Even if Wang were not hurt they would be looking for a Sabathia

  129. William Buckner June 16th, 2008 at 11:22 am

    Pepitone,
    I for one would say no, because you are getting a young player in return.

    I would say yes if they traded for a early 30′s guy, perhaps trending down hill.

  130. V June 16th, 2008 at 11:22 am

    “Indians would help themselves best long term to strike will the iron is hot. The longer they wait, the less they can get back. Even to hold on for the draft picks isn’t as valuable as one might think. That late the best players are signability guys, which for them may be a stretch, assuming a winning team signs him in off season.”

    Also, the Indians don’t typically pay that much for draftees. Different draft philosophy than the Yankees.

  131. William Buckner June 16th, 2008 at 11:23 am

    V
    Right. In terms of receiving comp pick, mid to late 20′s are less valuable.

    What teams do you guys believe would be in the CC mix?

  132. V June 16th, 2008 at 11:24 am

    Good post SJ44 – the prospect evaluation is spot on, IMO.

  133. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 11:24 am

    Shapiro is a full blown idiot and so is anyone else if he thinks he can duplicate the Colon deal in today market.

  134. shapeshifter June 16th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    Matt-

    “Wang actually scored on the play. Though he was helped off the field, it was under his own power. To suggest that he’s injured seriously because his foot “hurts” just doesn’t make any sense. If he were more seriously hurt, don’t you think he would have had trouble finishing the rest of the 60 feet to home plate more than he did?”

    Obviously you never played competitive sports. I played D1 soccer and tore my plantar fascia (same injury as Jay Buhner in Seattle and Marcus Camby while on the Knicks) in the middle of play and was able to limp about 70 feet off the field. I spen the next 7 weeks in a cast but was able to limp off. To suggest that Wang should have cumpled to the groud the second the injury occured is assanine.

  135. Web June 16th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    I agree with Vader which is why I don’t like the idea of trying to get C.C. The Indians will want the world from the Yankees.

  136. Brent (This Damon Guy's For Real, Huh?) June 16th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    SJ,

    Couldn’t agree more. I think if the Yankees lost 5 out 6 or so on this road trip, maybe they don’t think about making a move. But since they played well, the front office will more likely make a move since there is light at the end of the tunnel.

    Actually, I think the exact opposite of your conclusion..If Wang is out for the season and if the Yankees had lost 5 of 6 on the road trip, they would have felt even more pressure to turn things around: Thus requiring a big trade instead of experimenting with minor league guys. The yankees are still a ways away from reclaiming the AL-East as it is..a poorly played road trip (say 33-37 record after the 3 games in Houston) would have catapulted them into the trade market.

  137. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    The Colon trade is not the benchmark deal to look at in any CC trade.

    The benchmark is simple. What deal can Shapiro make that justifies losing the draft picks.

    The Yankees don’t and won’t give up the farm to get CC. If Shapiro asks for too much, they will say “no” and walk away.

    I do think they will make a run at him if Shapiro puts him on the market. They may not be able to match up but, they won’t say no out of hand.

    If they did get him, it doesn’t change their philosophy one bit. You use your farm system in various ways to help your team. Trades are one vehicle to do so.

  138. William Buckner June 16th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    SJ – love where your heads at.
    That’s the kind of deal Shapiro could sell to the fan base. It’s very win – win.

  139. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    SJ if there isn’t a market for CC why not wait till the offseason the acquire him, all it will cost is money at that point. I’m not into trading Tabata or Betances (but that’s just me)

  140. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 11:27 am

    “We actually do just check Bartolo Colon deal for reference, he outfleeced Omar Minaya and the worse deal he’s ever made was Bradon Philips to Cincy and that’s because ownership forced him to do it because Philips was becoming a nuisance and developed a dogging attitude.”

    that isnt comparable, because the expos, when they made that trade, didnt even know if they were going to have a franchise the next year due to contraction. they made the push to win now and give up prospects because they didnt really have a choice.

  141. randy l June 16th, 2008 at 11:28 am

    We run all the time,” Mike Mussina said. “But we run in straight lines on the outfield grass. It’s not the same.”

    i’ve blown out two hammys after hitting first base and turning it on making the turn for second base going for doubles.

    it’s the turn that puts a lot of pressure on the body.

    mussina couldn’t be more right.

    that said it was unlucky wang got hurt.

    but that said, you often make your own luck.

    the yankees should simply give up runs if a pitcher has to run hard.

    pitchers should not slide at all.

    pitchers should not swing the bat if they never have.

    pitchers should not bunt if they never have.

    these should be rules to take as much bad luck out of the equation as possible.

    a run here or there just isn’t worth the risk.

  142. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 11:28 am

    then*

  143. Tom Ace June 16th, 2008 at 11:28 am

    SJ44 preaches youth and the system for two years but now says trade??

  144. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    “The benchmark is simple. What deal can Shapiro make that justifies losing the draft picks.”

    exactly. better to take back a combo of talent already proven amongst minor league levels than take a chance on a couple of HS kids coming into pro ball… especially when the Indians wont go over slot to really pick the best available kids with those draft picks.

  145. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 11:30 am

    I hope the next batch of can’t miss kids are better than Hughes and Kennedy.

  146. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 11:30 am

    “Brandon thinks every Yank prospect will be a future All Star.
    No I really don’t. BTW Don’t know what this post is suppose to mean or contribute at that.”

    Yup, they would probably say the same about me, Brandon. However, I think you and me are talking about the plan. The plan in the past was develop our young players, and then trade them for “established stars,” e.g. Carl Pavano (YEAH, I know he was a free agent, but that was the plan back then), Randy Johnson, Jaret Wright, Gary Sheffield, etc. That plan has gotten us dumped in the first round of most of our playoff appearances. I vote we stick with the new plan and continue to hang on to our young players.

  147. Sara June 16th, 2008 at 11:30 am

    Hey all! I am totally devastated about Wang. He has been my favorite for a while now BUT here is why I don’t believe this is as big a blow as A-Rod and Jorge out of the lineup.
    1)a pitcher goes out there every 5 days. Losing a position player of high caliber is much more devastating on an every day basis. The Yankees still have a lineup that can score 13+ runs a game.
    2) Mike Mussina…..this guy has 10 wins and looks sharp. Everyone thought Wang would have to win 20 games to pick up the rest of the pitching staff. With Moose pitching the way he has been pitching, the Yanks are getting much more than what they originally thought
    3) Andy Pettite is coming around. This is his time of year.
    4) Joba Camberlin is proving that he can handle the rotation much better than Hughes or Kennedy.
    5) Rasner just needs to keep the Yanks in the game like he has before the one bad start in Oakland. Again this is a lineup that can score 13+ runs a game. They have been taking off as of late.

    So, while it totally stinks to lose Wang for even just one game, I don’t think this is the end for the Yankees. BUT I do believe this will prove to fans exactly what the front office is thinking. If they make a move to go out and get a big guy then they will in fact back up what they are claming, that they want to rebuild but still win. If they bring up Kei Igawa well then let’s face it..this is just a transition year!

    This team needs to take advantage of the EASY schedule they have and pick up some more wins and leave .500 in the rear view mirror

  148. David Cone's Labrum June 16th, 2008 at 11:30 am

    Interesting take from Kepner, who was specific about the location of Wang’s injury – the toes.

    Watching the game yesterday, Wang doubled over at home plate with Girardi, he was pointing down at his toes, his big toe is what I thought initially.

    Anyway, just reporting what I saw. I wouldn’t be surprised if he broke a toe or two, bent from stepping on the corner of the base.

  149. Hugh Stacks June 16th, 2008 at 11:31 am

    What about AJ Burnett? He is injured often, but his stuff is nasty, and it would cost far less in terms of prospects than CC. Maybe something like Horne and a low level bat could get it done.

  150. V June 16th, 2008 at 11:31 am

    “I hope the next batch of can’t miss kids are better than Hughes and Kennedy.”

    d00d, go away.

    I guess Kershaw sucks also, right? Johnny Cueto?

    Heck, of the young, can’t miss prospects, Edinson Volquez is the only one dominating, he doesn’t even qualify as a rookie.

  151. Brent (This Damon Guy's For Real, Huh?) June 16th, 2008 at 11:32 am

    Shapiro is a full blown idiot and so is anyone else if he thinks he can duplicate the Colon deal in today market.

    So..Shapiro is an idiot for starting his asking price high? Also, how did this idiot complete the Colon trade in the first place?

    This is how trades work! Sellers start the asking price high, buyers try to bring them down, and they meet somewhere in the middle. Why else do you think the Twins asked for Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne, Jeff Marquez, Babe Ruth’s Monument Park plaque, Brian Cashman’s soul, and a lifetime supply of Reggie Bars for Johan Santana? What did Minnesota end up getting for him? Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra.

  152. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 11:33 am

    It us a terrific plan to stick with young Kidd if said kids are great players. You don’t win with kids who aren’t good. These are the Yankees. They won’t be playing 25 min salary guys. Go root for the Royals.

  153. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 11:34 am

    Instead of taking shots at me, think for a minute.

    CC Sabathia is 27 years old. He’s 18 months older than Alan Horne and Daniel McCutchen. They aren’t trading for Kevin Brown.

    For all the fitness freaks on this blog who are concerned with his appearance, how many times has he been on the DL in his career? Let’s just say, 2 fewer than Phil Hughes.

    He’s the reigning Cy Young winner and has a 2.28 ERA in his last 11 starts.

    Yes, it would be AWFUL for the Yankees to “abandon” their youth movement (in the eyes of some) in order to acquire a pitcher of CC’s age and pedigree.

    Situations change during a season. IF Wang is out for the season, the Yankees aren’t going to say, “Oh well, bad break, let’s just go with our youngsters the rest of the year”.

    Its not going to happen.

    They aren’t going to drain the farm system to make ANY trade. They also won’t have to drain the farm system to make a CC trade. But, IMO, they will make a deal. Its just a matter of who they get and who they give up in return.

    They aren’t turning over Wang’s slot in the rotation for the rest of the year to Dan Giese, Alan Horne or Daniel McCutchen. It ain’t gonna happen if Wang is out for the season.

  154. PJH June 16th, 2008 at 11:35 am

    Good to see there is no shortage of doctors on this website.

  155. V June 16th, 2008 at 11:35 am

    If I’m the Yankees’ FO, I simply ask the Indians, point blank, what they’re looking for (SP prospects, position prospects, ML ready, higher ceiling but lower level) and build on that. Heck, do the ‘here’s our list, take one from column 1, one from column 2, one from column 3′ gig, and see if the asking price is too high.

  156. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 11:36 am

    I guess people like V think all of our prospects will be stars now too. Sorry to break the bad news to you V. But they won’t. And Hughes and Kennedy havent impressed have they? Go away V.

  157. V June 16th, 2008 at 11:36 am

    “It us a terrific plan to stick with young Kidd if said kids are great players. You don’t win with kids who aren’t good. These are the Yankees. They won’t be playing 25 min salary guys. Go root for the Royals.”

    Do you speak English?

  158. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 11:36 am

    Pepitone, that’s exactly what I mean. We’ve been doing this year after year after year and where does it get us ? Nowhere. Why would Cashman do this deal for CC when he’s not at a position of strength and w/ the thought in the back of his mind saying “Hey I can get this guy in 7 months just for a check” This is the direction I’d rather go if they are to get CC, but not at the expense of selling your plan. If this isn’t the plan then guess what Santana should have been acquired and even then I was never a fan of that potential deal, players in the downside of thier careers is a turn off for me.

  159. V June 16th, 2008 at 11:38 am

    SJ44, I agree with you; however, I think we disagree a little on how much the Yankees should give up (such as last week, when I adamantly disagreed with the Cano possibility – this organization isn’t trading Cano).

    If the Yankees had a ‘one from column A, one from column B, one from column C’ offer, who would you include in each column?

  160. PJH June 16th, 2008 at 11:38 am

    I really doubt the Blue Jays would trade Burnett to the Yankees, nonetheless another AL East team. That would not send a good message to the few fans they have.

  161. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Can’t see the Blue Jays looking to make a deal with the Yankees. Not with both fighting in their own division for a playoff berth.

  162. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Isnt the system loaded??? Why can’t they trade Gor help now especially an ace in his prime? I’m baffled at anyone anti better starting pitching. Wake up

  163. Buddy Biancalana June 16th, 2008 at 11:39 am

    SJ has always said you use your farm system to develop players & when a deal comes around, you have the chips to make that deal.

    There is no guarantee Tabata or Betances will pan out in the majors, the proposed deal by SJ for CC makes a lot of sense for both teams.

    The question is whether Shapiro values the players in the Yankees farm system more than what he could acquire through the draft.

    The answer is most likely yes.

  164. John_Halfz June 16th, 2008 at 11:39 am

    Surprised a team has never given Giese a sustained shot. He’s not a great pitcher, but he’s also acquitted himself well in the minors. And he keeps his walk and hit rates down.

    Karstens, frankly, is less attractive. Granted, he’s younger, but he’s never had great success and he’s much more hittable than Giese. From a biased standpoint, I saw him get absolutely lit up by Pawtucket a few weeks ago. He was allowed to make three starts for NYY last year, and never put anything together. Giese should get at least as many chances as Karstens did to compile his +11 ERA.

    McCutchen is coming off a good start, but just one. He needs to put a couple of good starts together. Because you don’t want to call up the guy who allowed 16 hits in 12 1/3 IP in his previous two starts.

    Scott Patterson is Aaron Small.

    If the injury to Wang is severe, they’ll need to trade for help unless Giese pitches well above expectations for a few starts. I would expect nothing from the other three guys, especially Karstens

  165. Mike June 16th, 2008 at 11:40 am

    Pepitone and V’s heads may explode from not agreeing with SJ.

  166. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 11:40 am

    “The plan in the past was develop our young players, and then trade them for “established stars,” e.g. Carl Pavano (YEAH, I know he was a free agent, but that was the plan back then), Randy Johnson, Jaret Wright, Gary Sheffield, etc. ”

    Only Randy Johnson was acquired via trade.

  167. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 11:40 am

    “Its a matter of prioritizing the guys in the system you feel you must keep no matter what.
    IMO, those should be the following: Hughes, Melancon, Brackman, Austin Jackson, Montero, and perhaps Humberto Sanchez or David Robertson. Depending on what they see their future roles as in NY. After that, every other guy can be put in the mix, depending on what form the deal takes.”

    Dang it, SJ44, I cannot find fault in your argument. Sabathia is still young (he’s, what, 26-27?), and your point that the Yankees will not include Hughes, Kennedy, etc. in any deal makes a lot of sense. OK, make the trade!

  168. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 11:42 am

    If you can’t trust them to trade the right prospects than we are already done for.

  169. V June 16th, 2008 at 11:42 am

    “I guess people like V think all of our prospects will be stars now too. Sorry to break the bad news to you V. But they won’t. And Hughes and Kennedy havent impressed have they? Go away V.”

    I know you’re just trolling, but there is a tiny point to be had.

    Prospects are just that, prospects. You don’t know who’s going to pan out or not in advance. However, you do know who’s ‘higher ceiling’, and who’s more LIKELY to achieve said ceiling.

    Kennedy is not a ‘high ceiling’ guy, however, he has (had) the makeup and polish that make that ceiling much more likely to be achieved. Hughes and Joba are -top- ceiling guys, each with pretty solid chances to achieve those ceilings.

    You don’t trade Hughes/Joba level prospects for rentals. They aren’t included, at all, and are never on the table to start with.

    At the second tier of prospect are your Horne/Marquez level players. I’d say 1 out of every 2 or 3 pan out. But when making a trade, you sure as heck want to try to deal the one that DOESN’T pan out (which is obviously, impossible to tell in advance ;-)). It’s a numbers game, probability.

    Of course, the best trades (on the part of the seller of ML talent for prospects) are the ones in which you unearth a gem – perhaps an undervalued pitching prospect that your pitching coach thinks can improve with a mechanics adjustment, etc.

  170. John_Halfz June 16th, 2008 at 11:43 am

    The Blue Jays won’t be fighting for anything this year, and it’s a serious discredit to their management. A team dumb enough to outright release Frank Thomas after he gave them a 125 OPS+ last year won’t win. That’s inexcusable for a team that’s 12th in the AL in runs scored. Particularly when they’ve put together such a great rotation.

    If Burnett turns it around, it’s a terrifying rotation. But they’ll need numbers like the ones Hamilton and Bradley are giving the Rangers out of Wells and Rolen. And that’s not happening.

  171. Mike June 16th, 2008 at 11:43 am

    Pepitone could only last so long not agreeing with sj. He held out ad long as he could

  172. JoeT 28 in 09!! June 16th, 2008 at 11:43 am

    I think in the end, if Wang is out for the year, the Yankees end up getting someone in the Randy Wolf category. Someone that can fill in the way Shawn Chacon, Jon Lieber, Denny Neggle, and Aaron Small did. It won’t cost too much in terms of players or money and can be a very good replacement

  173. JGNYC June 16th, 2008 at 11:44 am

    “I’m not a doctor, but I play one on the LoHud Yankee Blog.”

    -Unknown Blogger

  174. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 11:45 am

    V,

    I agree with that approach. The Yankees have enough to put together a prospect laden deal for CC.

    They just have to make sure their internal untouchables (Montero, AJax, Melancon, for example) are off the table. Which, IMO, will happen.

    Cleveland is a good organization. They have been doing their due diligence for over a month with certain teams.

    I have no doubt they know the Yankees farm system as well as the Yankees do by now.

    Its just a matter of value. We don’t know how they value certain Yankee prospects.

    I’ll give you an example. Justin Snyder is a second baseman/utility player in Charleston. A lot of scouts I know think he has a chance to be a very good ML player. Others think he is limited due to his size.

    If for example, the Indians think he can be a player (I have no idea how they feel about him), that’s a guy they can put in a deal because Cano is young and contract controlled for the next 4 years.

    If both teams have similar ideas on value, common ground usually gets reached. If they don’t, its hard to matchup.

  175. V June 16th, 2008 at 11:45 am

    “Isnt the system loaded??? Why can’t they trade Gor help now especially an ace in his prime? I’m baffled at anyone anti better starting pitching. Wake up”

    Ok, the system’s loaded. I have a great idea: the Yankees should deal Hughes+Tabata for CC, then how about Horne+Marquez+Melancon+Cox+Montero for Harden+Blanton. Then Austin Jackson+Robertson for Fuentes.

    Awesome, they get CC, Harden, Blanton, and Fuentes, and all they have to do is totally clear out their system, and start over from scratch!

  176. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    V people like you give this board a bad name. You give out lame opinions you should take the heat. Instead of calling me a troll. Jerk

  177. William Buckner June 16th, 2008 at 11:48 am

    I think it important to remember the reason to have good prospects. One is the suppliement or later replace established players. The other is to deal from your strengths to get something the team needs to improve.

    Boston could have said no to dealing for Beckett but they had depth in the minors and thought it worth the risk. He brought them a ring.

    I’m not saying CC is Sandy Koufax. He is as close to a sure thing as there is in pitching. Sub 4 era, over 200 innings, and healthy.

    Just think how good they could be with a CC, Wang, Joba, Hughes rotation.

  178. John_Halfz June 16th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    There are few prospects who are, or should be, untouchable. It’s not really our goal to lead the league in ERA at Trenton and Scranton. Essentially, hold on to the absolute cream of the crop at each level, and cut anything else loose for a pitcher of Sabathia’s caliber.

    If Alan Horne turns out to be Cy Young, well, you’re the Yankees and you can deal with it. And you traded for CC Sabthia.

    More to the point, the Yankees are much better off than they were last year at this date. They’re 3.5 back of a Tampa team that will soon begin taking on water because the lineup’s not quite there. And our run differential is going to steadily improve (even without 13-0 days like yesterday). I would bet that within 30 days, our run differential will suggest an even pythag record with TB. I think we’ll pass them within 6 weeks and leave them in the dust within 8. No one in that lineup is underperforming (keep in mind that Pena is 30 and had one great year), and Hinske is more than making up for Pena’s disappointing start.

  179. The Blog Populace June 16th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    To V,
    double * middle finger *

  180. V June 16th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    Exactly, on the differing value front. I, admittedly, have no idea how these deals get made (do the Indians say we want 4 of these 10 players? 1 of these 3, then 2 of these 4, then 1 of these 5? or do they specify we want -this- player included, or no deal).

  181. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    SJ why to you waste ur time with people who don’t get it even if u explain it ten times? People here think prospects are all gold. U will never convince them otherwise no matter how smart it is

  182. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 11:50 am

    “Only Randy Johnson was acquired via trade.” OK, but you know darn well what I mean.

  183. William Buckner June 16th, 2008 at 11:51 am

    Relax, this is a great baseball discussion. No right or wrong answer. Some people, even great execs would not trade their prospects (dodgers) others move very quickly (tigers).

    Don’t take the diff in opinions personally.

  184. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 11:53 am

    Why don’t you try providing an argument, Bell, instead of standing on the sidelines sniping?

    I agree with Sj44 and V, because they make good, solid, well thought out arguments, something you seem allergic to.

  185. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 11:53 am

    I fully, totally agree with SJ44′s 11:10 am post.

    And I watched CC pitch against the Dads yesterday. He was, in a one word answer, phenomenal. He has a mid-2 ERA over his last 11 starts.

    He is big, don’t get me wrong. But I don’t see him as ‘David Wells-obese’, to be polite. He just looks like a big, thick dude.

    And, as SJ pointed out, its not like the NYY would be trading for a pissy, over-the-hill, late-30′s-to-early-40′s guy: CC is just entering his prime.

    I read Cleveland is looking for SP depth and corner OF depth.

    So, does Kennedy, McCutchen and Tabata get it done?

    (after a starting offer of Kennedy, Igawa and a Duncan package, Shelley and Eric. After Shapiro hangs up, call him back and offer the deal above. If he hangs up again, do a ‘pick-em’ list comprised of Kennedy, Melky, and other assorted AAA, and AA guys. Obviously certain guys are left off the list as untouchable)

    By the way, hope everyone had a good Dad’s Day yesterday. The tickets to Angels@NYY for Aug. 1 (Fri) showed up today!

    WOOOOOOO – HOOOOOOOOO !!!!

  186. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    I think a lot of you are missing a key point. Cleveland is not going to trade Sabathia until the end of July if at all. They have a very good chance of contending in the AL Central and Shapiro will give them as much time as possible to show something.

    If the goal is to trade for Sabathia, whats the solution for the next month and a half? If Wang is out for the season I think Cashman will look at other options that can be traded for within the next week or two.

  187. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    “So, does Kennedy, McCutchen and Tabata get it done?”

    you would think that offer is in the ballpark of reality, no?

  188. jason June 16th, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Danny Ainge as executive of the year.
    Why is this important because it is the roadmap for the Yankees. Boston built up a tremendous cadre of young prospects. They didn’t win squat. When an opportunity presented itself he made a huge prospect laden trade to get KG. He didn’t trade Ronda who was his untouchable but gave up Al Jefferson who has the potential to be an all star. What happened, well they will hang another banner tomorrow night.
    This could not mirror more closely what the Yankees are doing. By focusing on the farm they will 1) bring players through the system that will help the big club and 2) use the farm as a trade chip to bring in additional impact pieces.
    As SJ points out, you are going to give up prospects that may turn out to be excellent players (Al Jefferson) and you will keep prospects that you feel are untouchable (Rondo). The critical point is making sure you trade for the right star. I am not enough of a baseball expert to say yes or no on CC (although he has certainly been outstanding the last month and a half). You don’t trade top guys for Gil Meche as the Celtics held out for a future Hall of Famer before pulling off the “big ticket” trade.
    In baseball you can also replenish far more quickly then in basketball. I am on record saying on check the MILB boxscores before the MLB ones. I would not like to see us part with Tabata who has been much better of late, Horne or Betances – who has fromt of the rotation potential. But through the draft Cole and IFA perhaps Inoa you can already replace betances place in the farm system.

  189. John_Halfz June 16th, 2008 at 11:57 am

    What the Yankees should be worried about, more than what prospects they might sacrifice, is devoting themselves to a real evaluation of Sabathia’s talent and worth. He’s put it together in his last 10 starts, but is that what he is, or might he regress to his 2004-05 numbers (which, while fine, don’t shout “ACE”)?

  190. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 11:57 am

    “I think a lot of you are missing a key point. Cleveland is not going to trade Sabathia until the end of July if at all. They have a very good chance of contending in the AL Central and Shapiro will give them as much time as possible to show something.”

    actually, Ken Rosenthal and Peter Gammons, amongst others, have speculated Shapiro might move Sabathia sooner than later, realizing that the team who is trading for him will give up more value to have him for the couple extra starts in June and July, than if they traded him at the deadline, and they only had him for August and September.

    you may not like or trust Rosenthal or Gammons, but there is truth in that theory.

  191. Lauren June 16th, 2008 at 11:58 am

    It annoys me that some local papers practically have Sabbathia in pinstripes and we don’t even have a diagnosis yet. When the Yankees are in need, they get absolutely raped by the team on the other end of the trade. If Wang is out for an extended length, I would not recommend trading away 3-4 above average prospects for some mercenary who will likely not survive NY, or the AL East.

    I promised myself I will not freak out until I hear how long he will actually be out. It’s going to be a long day. . .

  192. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 11:58 am

    “The Blog Populace
    June 16th, 2008 at 11:49 am
    To V,
    double * middle finger *

    You, my friend, have a serious problem.

  193. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 11:59 am

    Patrick,

    The short term option comes from within. Giese as the 5th starter, with Robertson added to the ‘pen.

    They can fill the need for a month internally. After that? They will have to go outside the organization to find a starter if Wang’s injury is season ending, IMO.

  194. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 11:59 am

    Do you like that offer, TurnTwo, or are you mocking it?

    I think its fair. And, Patrick, the ‘experts’ at ESPN (Olney, Gammons) are thinking that if CC goes, it will be sooner rather than later.

    You sell high and buy low. Say CC blows out an elbow (like half this blog is predicting) dipping a Nugget in a Sweet’n’Sour/BBQ mix. Then the Indians net nothing.

    They will sell high, while he is hot.

  195. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 11:59 am

    Pepitone,

    I actually think it’s a myth that the Yankees recently have traded off their good young players for washed up veterans.

    I find it tough to point out even 5 impact players who were traded by the Yankees.

  196. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    “So, does Kennedy, McCutchen and Tabata get it done?”

    “you would think that offer is in the ballpark of reality, no?”

    But you know Shapiro will ask for Melancon, McCutchen and AJax to start.

    Then they will go back and forth.

    I think a McCutchen, Kennedy (or Horne, if anothe piece is coming back over with CC) and Tabata would be fair.

    But I’m a bar owner from Maine… Whadda I know!?!?!

    :)

  197. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    I’m watching his start vs the Pads right now, so far I’m in the first inning after Jody Gerut hit a double on pitch #1 and Edgar Gonzalez nearly hit a 2 run HR. The announcer said opponents when they put first pitch vs CC are batting over .500 (27 – 47) to be exact :lol:

  198. Jake June 16th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    I feel as if the Yankees have too many options in their farm to go out and dump players and money on CC Sabathia. Like some have pointed out (and I am skeptical about), let Giese at least try to give us something. If that doesn’t pan out, Kennedy should be back soon, I guess Garcia is an option, etc.

    If the Yankees do elect to trade for Sabathia and decide not to sign him to an extension, they at least get two solid draft picks. I don’t think the Yankees are as “desperate” as the media makes them out to be. I say let em see what the in-house options can do.

  199. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    “actually, Ken Rosenthal and Peter Gammons, amongst others, have speculated Shapiro might move Sabathia sooner than later, realizing that the team who is trading for him will give up more value to have him for the couple extra starts in June and July, than if they traded him at the deadline, and they only had him for August and September.

    you may not like or trust Rosenthal or Gammons, but there is truth in that theory.”

    Its just speculation coming from two guys who are not very bright. I highly doubt that Shapiro will give up on a team that was in the ALCS last year. Especially with the emergence of Cliff Lee, this team is a definite contender. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cleveland be buyers at the trade deadline rather than sellers. I just don’t see it happening.

  200. Pierce - 2008 Best Actress Academy Award June 16th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    All this over a guy who many say isn’t the Yankee’s Ace.

  201. jason June 16th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    What is Hughes’s story. When will he get back to pitching and then how long will it take assuming no setbacks?
    Can we patchwork until Hughes gets back in 6 weeks?

  202. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    Per Ty Kepner:

    “The Yankees’ season changed irreversibly on Sunday. Chien-Ming Wang’s season is in jeopardy with a serious injury to his right foot, and C. C. Sabathia instantly became a very important name in the Yankees’ universe.”

    good article in the Times today.

    Needs to be pointed out that Pete was talking about this over a week ago!

  203. Don Vito A. Bellamo June 16th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    SJ44….thanks again for your posts, friend.

  204. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    That’s a .574 AVG vs CC when opponents put his first pitch in play. I’ll be watching the rest of his start. P.S. the Pads are an anemic offense so lets be honest this start isn’t a big telling what CC provides.

  205. V June 16th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Question to SJ – is Jackson off limits? Do you value him higher than Tabata?

    I don’t see him as a ‘no doubt off-limits’ guy, but I could be wrong ;-)

  206. Russell NY June 16th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    “Can we patchwork until Hughes gets back in 6 weeks?”

    Jason – the Yankees won’t patchwork to wait for a guy that is consistently injured and hasn’t yet proven his dominance.

  207. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    “They will sell high, while he is hot.”

    Thats absurd, Sabathia has been as durable as any pitcher and it is very likely he will continue his good pitching. Shapiro would give up a potential playoff spot just to squeeze a few more prospects out of a deal? I highly doubt it. Just because the Yankees might need Sabathia right now doesn’t mean Cleveland will trade him right now.

  208. V June 16th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    “That’s a .574 AVG vs CC when opponents put his first pitch in play. I’ll be watching the rest of his start. P.S. the Pads are an anemic offense so lets be honest this start isn’t a big telling what CC provides.”

    How often do opponents SWING at the first pitch?

  209. DLev June 16th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    Depends on what Cleveland is planning on doing. They won the division last year and were a game away from going to the WS. While they’d certainly be interested in Kennedy and probably Horne, I don’t see how guys like Tabata or Betances are going to thrill them at this point. Both guys are at least three yrs. away, probably more, if they ever harness all their talent at all. If Cleveland rebuilds its rotation, they’re going to be back in it next year. I’d think they’d want to get prospects closer to the majors than some of the names being tossed around here.

    Plus, there really is no hurry for them. They can hold onto Sabathia until the deadline (or just hold onto him and get the picks), then see if they’re still close enough where they want to keep him. I can’t imagine they’d do anything at this point unless the Yankees overwhelm them, and unless Tabata gets his slugging percentage out of the two hundreds, and Betances recovers and figures out how to hit the proverbial barn door, Cleveland might as well wait 6 weeks and see what other teams have to offer.

  210. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    “I actually think it’s a myth that the Yankees recently have traded off their good young players for washed up veterans.”

    Perhaps not via trades, per se, but via free agent signings that caused us to lose draft prospects that eventually thinned out the system.

    I do remember giving up Eric Milton for someone, and he turned out to be pretty good. There are probably others, but I’m too lazy to go look them up now.

  211. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    “Its just speculation coming from two guys who are not very bright. I highly doubt that Shapiro will give up on a team that was in the ALCS last year. Especially with the emergence of Cliff Lee, this team is a definite contender. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cleveland be buyers at the trade deadline rather than sellers. I just don’t see it happening.”

    Patrick, I admire you, Takes some stugots to make a comment like that.

    I may have no respect for how Gammons makes his way in the world, but I do view him and Ken Rosenthal as fairly reliable due to their network of connections.

  212. Blargh June 16th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    Right now, it’s just hard for me to see Shapiro essentially start waving the white flag on their season by trading their resident ace. Of course, things will change over the upcoming weeks…
    That said, if the Indians are able to stay in the race a month from now, or even lead their division, would Sabathia probably still be available?

  213. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Milton was part of the deal for Knobby…

  214. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    How often do opponents SWING at the first pitch?

    They didn’t say

  215. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    Oh wait V they said 27 out of 47 times

  216. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    Question to SJ – is Jackson off limits? Do you value him higher than Tabata?

    I don’t see him as a ‘no doubt off-limits’ guy, but I could be wrong

    I’m not SJ but in my opinion he’s off limits and more valuable than Tabata. He is very young and doing very well in his first season in AA. Other than the jump from AAA to the majors, the jump from A to AA is the hardest. It is impressive that he is doing very respectably in AA. Jackson projects well and he is producing which is pretty rare among most of the Yanks’ prospects. I wouldn’t trade him.

  217. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    That’s great Brandon. He has a 2.28 ERA in his last 11 starts for a team that can’t hit and is almost as bad defensively as the Yankees.

    The guy can pitch. Let’s put it another way, if the Yankees got him, they are a helluva lot better team with him than without him.

    Nobody on the Yankees staff is as good as Sabathia. I don’t care what their records are, if the Yankees ever acquired CC, he immediately becomes the best starter on the staff.

    77,

    I don’t see Kennedy’s value being high because he has been so horrible so far this year.

    For Shapiro needs more meat in that deal to sell to his ownership.

    JMO but, any deal has to start with Tabata. They need corner OF’s and regardless of his issues this year, the kid has the kind of talent that makes GM’s swoon.

    Betances may have to be in the deal. If not Betances, then McAllister.

    Personally, I think McAllister is the better prospect but, that’s JMO. I could be wrong.

    After that, the highest rated starter not on the Yankees untouchable list would have to go back to Cleveland.

    At least 3 players, perhaps 4 (if the Yankees can get a good bench bat like Dellucci in return, for example) would have to go in the deal.

    If Tabata and Betances are in the deal, and Cleveland values them as much as some other teams do, you get closer to doing a deal, IMO.

  218. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    Just because the Yankees might need Sabathia right now doesn’t mean Cleveland will trade him right now.

    Noone is saying Cleveland WANTS to help the Yankees, they both play in the same League. I’m sure Shapiro would rather send him to the NL.

    But to say the Sell High, Buy Low theory is absurd is ridiculous onto itself. SHBL transcends not only the sports industry but monetary industries as well.

    Guess you haven’t put that Harvard business degree to use yet, Patty boy!

  219. whozat June 16th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    “Right now, it’s just hard for me to see Shapiro essentially start waving the white flag on their season by trading their resident ace. Of course, things will change over the upcoming weeks…”

    Well, they lost Martinez and Pronk’s return has been delayed. They weren’t getting a lot from either of those guys, but now they’re getting even less. It’s not clear that they their offense is going to produce enough to make a run again. Shapiro’s staring that in the face, as well as losing a couple starters to FA in the offseason…he might choose to flip Sabathia to reload for next season.

  220. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

    SJ,

    (And others)

    A show of hands:

    Is McCutchen, Betances and Tabata for CC fair?

    Or as SJ pointed out, add a fourth guy for a good bench player…

    Lets see some SANE proposals!

  221. V June 16th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    “If Tabata and Betances are in the deal, and Cleveland values them as much as some other teams do, you get closer to doing a deal, IMO.”

    And, while it would hurt to deal them, I think you can say neither team ripped the other off.

  222. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Great baseball discussion!! Really appreciate all of you who take the time and effort to produce a good argument for your position. The good posts on this blog far outnumber the “snarks.” That’s why I love this site.

    I will be very interesting to see just what the Yanks do do if Wang is out for the season. I think we can all agree that it will tell us a lot about where they are headed as an organization.

  223. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    “Perhaps not via trades, per se, but via free agent signings that caused us to lose draft prospects that eventually thinned out the system.”

    I agree with this to an extent. They really neglected their farm system on a whole and losing their first picks for FA’s did hurt the system.

    However they should have been using the philosophy of best player on the board regardless of cost which they weren’t doing until recently.

  224. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    “I may have no respect for how Gammons makes his way in the world, but I do view him and Ken Rosenthal as fairly reliable due to their network of connections.”

    Well from what I’ve read, Rosenthal and Gammons aren’t reporting on anything they are hearing from their connections, they are just speculating. I’ll admit they are decent at getting insider news but I don’t trust their speculation at all. Logic says the Indians won’t trade Sabathia until the deadline. We’ll see though. I think its a waste to trade for a 2 month rental, the only way I want Sabathia is if it’s long term.

  225. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    V
    June 16th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
    “If Tabata and Betances are in the deal, and Cleveland values them as much as some other teams do, you get closer to doing a deal, IMO.”

    And, while it would hurt to deal them, I think you can say neither team ripped the other off.

    FULLY AGREE.

    Someone smarter than us once said a fair deal slightly stings both sides.

  226. Vader June 16th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    Tabata and Betances, would be better than the two drafts picks the Indians would get if they keep CC. Also, they are two high ceiling prospects that the Indians could sell their fans and front office.

    I agree SJ, McAllister is probably a better prospect than Berances, but is he brought back CC, so be it.

    I still think that Wang getting hurt, puts the Cashman at a disadvantage.

  227. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    V,

    I love Jackson and I think he has the chance to be a special player.

    He’s raw and he needs more time but, he’s got a lot of talent.

    I also think Tabata is talented. However, I would rate Jackson higher and I wouldn’t give up Jackson in a CC deal.

    I would give up a higher rated arm in the organization before I give up Jackson.

    Patrick,

    The feeling around baseball is that Shapiro is going to deal him because he’s got so many injury issues (Hafner is out, Victor Martinez is out for 2 months, among others) the Indians don’t believe they can stay in for the long haul this year.

    Also, because their city isn’t as demanding as NY (in terms of winning every year) he has the cache to be able to do a deal for CC in season if they don’t believe they can sign him.

    Doesn’t mean he will do a deal. Just that he will have the support of ownership and the fan base should he do a deal.

  228. randy l June 16th, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    “If Wang is out for the season I think Cashman will look at other options that can be traded for within the next week or two.”

    hey patrick-

    livan hernandez could be gotten cheap right now.

    what do you think?

  229. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    Jose Tabata is the type of name I can see hurting the Yankees ala Manny for years to come. I just don’t want to deal that kid if I can get CC in the offseason I’d choose that option first SJ.

    SJ you do know Cash is going to search from within first right ? I mean he said that all year that he wouldn’t go out the market w/o checking from within first.

  230. Jake June 16th, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    Does anyone else think that Gammons might have lost his mind like 3 or 4 years ago?

    I used to have the utmost respect for him, but then his blatantly obvious love for the Sox (which is fine…his love for them, that’s his choice) seemed to begin to override his good sense.

    Then, he started plugging weird punk rock song lyrics into his columnsthat had absolutely no relation to the topic at hand. It kind of made me sad…like when an aged veteran fireballer is no longer as effective as he once was.

  231. V June 16th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    Assume a deal like “McCutchen, Betances and Tabata for CC” gets done – do the Indians give the Yankees a signing window? If not, does CC sign or go to free agency? What -exactly- is the compensation if he leaves (goes to a team with a protected pick or a team without a protected pick)? If he does sign, how long/how much? 6 year extension @ $110M enough? Too much? Not enough?

  232. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    Livan can eat innings…

    As could Garcia.

    But CC helps bring the possibility of Post season glory a little closer.

    And, yes, I did watch the playoffs last year.

  233. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    livan hernandez could be gotten cheap right now.

    what do you think?

    If we don’t have better options in the minors than Livan Hernandez than everybody should be fired.

  234. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    “But to say the Sell High, Buy Low theory is absurd is ridiculous onto itself. SHBL transcends not only the sports industry but monetary industries as well.”

    I didn’t say that theory is absurd. I was saying that chances are good that Sabathia’s value will be equally high in a month. I was just saying its absurd to think that Shapiro will trade Sabathia now just because the Yanks might need him now. The best move for the Indians would be to wait until July and see if the team shows any life. At that point it is very likely that Sabathia will still be healthy and pitching at a high level. Depending on how the team is playing Shapiro will make the decision then.

  235. jonathan c. June 16th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    If the Yankees “search from within” for someone with the talent of CC Sabathia, they are going to be searching for a long time.

  236. raymagnetic ®™ June 16th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    V,

    I’m thinking more along the lines of 6 years 118 mil personally.

  237. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    #2 then *

  238. V June 16th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    I don’t see a deal happening without one of Jackson/Tabata included. The Indians want position prospects AND SP prospects, and while pitching is the Yankees’ depth, I don’t think a straight pitching deal gets it done. Otherwise, I think you’d have to go that route and try to hold onto both Jackson/Tabata.

  239. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    “hey patrick-

    livan hernandez could be gotten cheap right now.

    what do you think?”

    Cashman needs to pull the trigger on that deal immediately. Shelley Duncan for Livan Hernandez what do you think?

  240. al arodien June 16th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    I have one big problem with this whole thing here why the heck is there not a DH in the national leage its the only place in professional baseball where the pitcher bats???!!!!! i dont get it! i also think its unfare that the american leage has and they dont ! can someone tell me the reason?!

  241. bronxbomber77 June 16th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    Jake, he did suffer a debilitating stroke a few yeras ago on the Cape.

    I’ll agree. My dad, who grew up in Boston and Worcester and read him for most of his life recently said: (and I quote)

    “Over the last few years, Peter Gammons has gone more from prophet to profiteer. I can’t fathom what the Sox pay him under the table!”

  242. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    If the Yankees “search from within” for someone with the talent of CC Sabathia, they are going to be searching for a long time.

    Win now at all costs right ?

  243. William Buckner June 16th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    I’d say any mix of Kennedy, Marquez, Horne, Betances, McAllister, McCutchen, Aceves, Robertson, Cox.

    I’d say of position guys, start w/ tabata, maybe gardner in mix.

    I’d say no Jesus, Cano, AJAX, Hughes, and Melancon.

  244. Russell NY June 16th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    “Is McCutchen, Betances and Tabata for CC fair?”

    That is too much IMO. More than the Yanks were going to give up for Santana.

    Tabata is expendable (I like Jackson better anyway) but have your pick between McCutchen and Betances. Not both.

    Randy – no to Livan Hernandez. That guy is just not good.

  245. sevrox June 16th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    Saw both Ajax and Tabata in Reading, PA yesterday for Thunder/Phillies game. Ajaz frozen rope home run in the first inning to LF and flied out deep to center in next AB. Tabata went long opposite field that was pulled in on the track.

    Ajax looks like the real deal.

  246. randy l June 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    um, brandon-

    patrick knows that was a joke.

    no livan to the yankees.

    short term will have to be from within after a short time of cashman going ” oh @@###$@@” for afew days.

    which is what i’m doing now.

    with wang the yankees were in trouble.

    without wang is serious to the point it’s going to take some time to digest it and figure out what to do next.

  247. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    SJ,

    I see what you’re saying but I think Shapiro will wait until July to make a deal for Sabathia. Cleveland has serious talent, I don’t think he would waste that until he is forced to. He could get a lot for Sabathia regardless of if he trades him now or in July. Some team (possibly NY) is going to blow a lot on him to make a playoff run.

  248. Jake June 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Brandon,

    In response to you comment about Cash saying he’d look internally, the Yankees were already presumably considering Sabathia and their in-house options before Wang even go hurt, wouldn’t you think?

    I agree with your sentiments on Livan. Why would we even bother trading for him if it would mainly be for the sake of eating innings?

    In terms of what guys Cash might consider trading, you gotta figure that either Tabata, Jackson, or Gardner will be out, then you gotta figure Kennedy, McCutcheon, Horne, or someone like that, and then perhaps Shapiro will ask for Cano.

    Maybe I am the only one who feels this way, but if the Yankees’ season is lost do to injuries, I can stomach it. If they sucked because the underachieving, that is another story.

  249. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    The worst thing to happen to Jose Tabata has been the Manny Ramirez comparisons.

    He ain’t Manny Ramirez and he never will be. At least not as a baseball talent.

    Check out what Manny was like at 19 and 20 years old. Then, look at Tabata. Its unfair to the kid to label him that way just because he has a similar build and batting stance as Manny.

    If the Yankees have to include Tabata to get CC Sabathia, they will do that deal tomorrow. Regardless of what they say publicly.

    Forget about what they say publicly. This is also an organization which said that Bubba Crosby would be their starting CF a few years ago and that Brian Bruney wasn’t seriously injured.

    What they say publicly and what they will do are often two entirely different things.

    Randy,

    Livan Hernandez has been horrible in his last 4-5 starts. I think that bloom is off the rose.

    The Yankees can do better than Livan Hernandez if they go outside the organization to find a pitcher.

  250. hornblower June 16th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    Peter,
    Not to let it get lost in the Wang and trade, your article on the state of the game yesterday was first rate. Since the “Bash Bros.” of 1988 it has been difficult to know what we were watching. Every long ball and fast pitch was suspect. Fans were poorly served by the union, management and the working press. No one gets bigger and stronger in their late thirties. Baseball players are subject to the same laws of nature as the rest of us.
    I hope we can enjoy the game a little more now but keep vigilant, money makes people do strange things.

  251. V June 16th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    Another question – does Brett Gardner have any trade value?

    Enough so that Gardner instead of Tabata, with an upgrade in the pitching side, could get it done?

    My gut says no (the Indians have a lot of non-high ceiling OF depth).

  252. morning star June 16th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    “I have one big problem with this whole thing here why the heck is there not a DH in the national leage its the only place in professional baseball where the pitcher bats???!!!!! i dont get it! i also think its unfare that the american leage has and they dont ! can someone tell me the reason?!”

    How about, why is there a DH in the American League? Isn’t that unfair to the National League?

    Some of us — especially those over 25 — view the DH as an abomination, even if its here to stay.

  253. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    Gardner has value for sure but like you say probably not enough to be a major piece in a Sabathia deal.

  254. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    SJ remember when the Indians ownership gave up on Brandon Philips and he was hitting .174 at that time. Tabata’s problem is adjusting to inside pitching at a higher level, but back to the B.Philips deal you think the Indians now wished they never gave up on him ? I don’t want that to happen w/ Tabata. (You can be infavor of that, but I’m not in favor of trading a kid w/ his upside)

  255. Joe from Long Island June 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    It’s amazing, the level of discussion is so much better during the daytime than at night, during the game. Maybe because the kids are still in school. But, I applaud all who have posted here today, because I can go over all this while I eat my lunch at my desk, and really take a mental health break from the day.

    I wish I was as eloquent and baseball savvy as some, but I’m not, so I’ll just enjoy.

    Thanks everyone.

  256. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    al arodien-

    I don’t like the DH, like Tony Kubek always argued with Joe Garagiola, it takes the strategy out of baseball. However, I think baseball needs to make up its mind, either all the teams have the DH, or none. I also don’t like interleague play. That’s something that was unique in baseball, the teams in the championship game had never played each other before, now that’s gone. I also hate the fact that they no longer play any World Series games in the daytime. Why can’t they play at least one game in the daytime??

    But, I’m an old guy who still remembers the thrill of sitting in school and sneaking a listen to the WS on my transistor when the teacher wasn’t watching. Oh well.

  257. Eugie June 16th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    so at 4 games above .500 they’re going to trade away what was offered (or more) for Johan Santana. Yeah, this makes loads of sense. Sorry people but this isn’t George’s team anymore. This is Hanks and Hank likes to use words like “Patience”, “Transition year” and “Next Year”.

    I would be shocked if they made a major trade this year.

  258. jonathan c. June 16th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    “Win now at all costs right ?”

    I don’t think Sabathia is suddenly going to forget how to pitch at age 28.

  259. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    I’m not in favor of trading him

  260. V June 16th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    “so at 4 games above .500 they’re going to trade away what was offered (or more) for Johan Santana. Yeah, this makes loads of sense. Sorry people but this isn’t George’s team anymore. This is Hanks and Hank likes to use words like “Patience”, “Transition year” and “Next Year”.

    I would be shocked if they made a major trade this year.”

    Hughes is worth more than that package alone.

  261. ANdy in Sunny Daytona June 16th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    “Shelley Duncan for Livan Hernandez what do you think?”

    Yeah that makes sense for the Twins, because they have a terrible right fielder and 1st baseman.

  262. george June 16th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    i’m over age 25, unfortunately; old enough to remember the pre-DH days. i love the DH.

    having pitcher hit is tedious. and then it gives managers options to pitch around the 7th-8th guys if someone is on base. means about 1/3 of the innings can be rendered unwatchable, unless you like watching .260 hitters be pitched around and pitcher strike out. B-O-R-I-N-G.

  263. Peter Rabbit June 16th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Okay, I’m sick of waiting. When do you expect we’ll hear about Wang’s foot?

    It’s too bad there’s no game today, the Yankees can hide from the media longer!

  264. Jake June 16th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Eugie, are you kidding? Hank wanted Santana badly…

  265. al arodien June 16th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    morning star- whatever you say it has to be on the same level!

  266. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Brandon,

    The Indians made out like bandits on that deal despite giving up on Brandon Phillips.

    For trades of a large nature to be made, it has to hurt a little bit. If it doesn’t, then you aren’t making the deal.

    Prospects are just that, prospects. Some may make it, some may not.

    CC Sabathia is a known commodity. If you have the chance to acquire a known commodity and Jose Tabata is one of the pieces you need to do the deal, you do it.

    That doesn’t mean the Yankees are straying from their retooling plan. If they were giving up Jose Tabata to get Greg Maddox, then its a valid complaint.

    To acquire a guy like CC? No question, you put Tabata in the deal if that’s what it takes to get it done.

  267. Eugie June 16th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    “Hughes is worth more than that package alone.”

    It’s going to take more than an unproven to land a CY Young winner.

  268. Eugie June 16th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    “Eugie, are you kidding? Hank wanted Santana badly…”

    Obviously not badly enough.

  269. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    All I’m going to add is if I can get CC just for a blank check this offseason I don;t do this deal SJ.

  270. Nick in SF but now in Charlotte June 16th, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    Livan Hernandez?

    Maybe Cash can look at a few under-50 pitchers first, and maybe THEN think about Livan.

  271. Fredo Corleone June 16th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    “Is McCutchen, Betances and Tabata for CC fair?”

    Probably not enough for the Tribe. McCutchen is NOT an a-list prospect and the other two are a longways from being able to make MLB contributions.

  272. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Over under of 5 minutes till Fatso mentions Bronson?

    I’m going under!

  273. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Brandon,

    But, wouldn’t you agree that if we can get CC without hurting our future, that that is a good deal?

    I would want him signed SJ44. If we give up prospects for him, then I don’t want him waking in the offseason. If we can’t work a deal to sign him, then don’t do the deal.

  274. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    There is no guarantee you can get him for a blank check in the off-season. That’s my point.

    You have a better chance of tying him up long term, or even deciding whether or not you want to, by getting him this season.

    What if you get him, he helps you win, and he and the Yankees decide this isn’t the best place for him? You get 2 draft picks, you win, AND save 100+ million bucks.

    There is no guarantee that CC Sabathia wants to pitch for the Yankees in the future. Instead of bidding for someone in the off-season whom you don’t have any idea on how he would hold up in NY (something the Yankees have to consider with any free agent), they would get the shot to know about that now with him.

    This is almost like a free sample for the Yankees. You get the benefits of his talent, at a reasonable 2008 salary, and you see if there is the chance to do something long term with him.

    Its a matter of determining which prospects you can stand to lose in the deal. From my end, I don’t see the issue with it.

    They aren’t trading guys like Montero for him. They will have their untouchable list. You give it a run and see what happens. If they can’t make a deal, so be it.

    If they can, it can be a win win deal for both sides.

  275. DLev June 16th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    “All I’m going to add is if I can get CC just for a blank check this offseason I don;t do this deal SJ.”

    A blank check plus a first round draft pick, but I get your point.

  276. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    BB77:

    “Is McCutchen, Betances and Tabata for CC fair?”

    i wasnt mocking the original offer before, but yes, this offer is also fair.

    of course its gonna hurt to move some of these guys, but its gonna feel that much better when youve got an ace in the hole for the playoff run this team has left in it.

  277. Jake June 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    Eugie,

    Cashman made the right move on the Santana front. No thanks.

    On another note, what is this love affair people have with Tabata? He is a head case, delinquent, and hasn’t proven jack apart from some success in what, the winter league? When we have other OF prospects like Jackson and Gardner in the fold, why would there be any issue with trading a guy like Tabata. SJ44 hit the nail on the head with this topic.

  278. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    Brandon,

    But, wouldn’t you agree that if we can get CC without hurting our future, that that is a good deal?

    If they can get him in a pitching for pitching deal and throw in a Reegie Corona and Justin Snyder or Brandon Laird yeh do it. I’m not in favor of trading Tabata, Jackson, Almonte or Betances. Those type of kids can chip in the new dynasty in the future.

  279. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    Whatever happens with the Wang situation will demonstrate the philosophy of the ball-club. If the Yanks give up some prospects to save the season then they are about now. However if they sit on their hands and ride this out then they are REALLY about 09 and beyond it will be a tough decision for brass to make.

  280. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    “Over under of 5 minutes till Fatso mentions Bronson?

    I’m going under”

    I’m thinking in the opening statement from him..we will get an Arroyo mention.

    Today might be a good day for an Bronson Arroyo drinking game

    ;)

  281. randy l June 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    “Livan Hernandez has been horrible in his last 4-5 starts. I think that bloom is off the rose.”
    sj-

    i was kidding because of all the sparring over hernandez with patrick earlier in the season. i totally agree he wouldn’t fit in now, nor would any other veteran like him.

    i think the team has started down a road with young pitchers that they are going to have to play out this year. it’s too costly to change course in mid stream.

    would i have done it the way the yankees have done it from the beginning?

    no, for the very reason that when one key pitcher goes down the team is screwed because young players don’t throw many innings. but once that decision was made, i think the yankees have to live with it.

    no team is going to run away with the wild card. stick with the plan and go for the wild card.

  282. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    Whats the deal with Fatcesa and Arroyo he has a crush on the guy. I had no idea how often does he mention him?

  283. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    S.A.- No pain..no gain

    I’ll have to stick with water, being at work an all.

  284. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    On another note, what is this love affair people have with Tabata? He is a head case, delinquent, and hasn’t proven jack apart from some success in what, the winter league?

    There are alot of players that have been head cases point is you don’t give up on the talented ones. And Tabata is freaking 19 yrs. old he can’t be allowed to go through struggles ! :evil:

  285. Eugie June 16th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    “Eugie,

    Cashman made the right move on the Santana front. No thanks.”

    Thats debatable but my point was it makes no sense for them to pass on that and give up the same (if not more) for CC when they’re not even really “in” anything.

  286. shapeshifter June 16th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    Did anyone notice the blond chick sitting behind home plate during yesterdays game? I dont think she watched one pitch…

  287. jay destro June 16th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    who has two thumbs and has all star game tickets?

    this gu.

  288. Hobbs June 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Garner, cano, Tabata, Mccutchen, betance, Horne, plus kennedy should be enough CC, barely but enough.

  289. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    I’ll throw another offer out there for discussion:

    Melky, McCutchen and either McAllister or Betances for CC and David Dellucci.

    The Indians get a corner OF (Melky is a better LF than anybody they have right now), a guy they can plug in their rotation right now (McCutchen) and a pitcher in A ball (McAllister or Betances) with upside.

    The Yankees get a top of the rotation starter and a bench guy who can play either corner OF positions.

    That offer is worth more than the 2 draft picks the Indians will get for CC. Also, if CC walks after the season, the Yankees can afford to deal with the losses and will get 2 draft picks for CC.

    They can call up Brett Gardner, put him in CF, and have Gardner and AJax fight over the CF spot from 2009 and beyond.

  290. Joe June 16th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    “Today might be a good day for an Bronson Arroyo drinking game.”

    Unless you’re at work or plan to drive.

  291. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    hobbs yeah lets empty our farm for a 4 month rental.

  292. Dennis-Costanza(Sox fan) June 16th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    Randy.

    We are leaving for the cape and then to our place in Maine on Saturday. We will be in Orleans from Sunday to Wed. Amy and I are going to stop by your store in Wellfleet on Tuesday mid AM.

    Looking forward to meeting you.

    -dennis

    -dennis

  293. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    LOL..yeah..
    The “at work” aspect is gonna put a crimp on the B.A. drinking game.

    :P

  294. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Today might be a good day for an Bronson Arroyo drinking game.

    I’m game I have enough to take a cab tonight

  295. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    Ditto Brandon, I have no qualms with giving up Tabata if it will save the season and obviously he would be the centerpiece of the deal. Granted the young man is extremely talented and like many young players through the roof potential but quite frankly he is at the back of a pack of very good OF Ajax,Brett Gardner,Colin Curtis. I believe he is expendable especially at the age of 19 if we trade him for C.C. he likely wont be in the bigs for a few a more years by then C.C. could have a ring and another CY Young. I think overvaluing young talent is also a bad plan nearly as bad as overvaluing veterans, ship off Tabata get C.C. and actually compete for the division this year.

  296. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    SJ44:

    depends on how valubale they think Melky really is.

    but you tell me that I can have CC and Dellucci for Melky, McCutcheon, and Betances, and i’ll tell you that you’ve got a deal.

  297. Russell NY June 16th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    How about Kennedy, Gardner, Betances.

  298. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    “Hobbs June 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Garner, cano, Tabata, Mccutchen, betance, Horne, plus kennedy should be enough CC, barely but enough.”

    Let’s throw in Jeremy Shockey, Stephan Marbury, James Dolan, a pack of gum and any other crazies that play in the NYC area.

    ;)

  299. gayle June 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Jay–

    I tired for the pre sale today but really had no expectations or even a huge desire but when I could not get 2 tickets together decided to pass and will watch on TV. I went to the all star game in Philly in 76 and it is better to watch on TV and for the single ticket when i could not get 2 together was $450 i passed

  300. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Russell,

    Not close to being enough. Has to be more value to the Indians for them to trade CC.

  301. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    S.A.- I’m pretty sure Hobbs was joking I wouldnt trade that package for Nolan Ryan in his prime. Tabata and a good pitcher(Horne/McCutchen) should get it done.

  302. Russell NY June 16th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Sj44 – if the Yanks had any plans to trade Melky wouldn’t you think they would have given Gardner some MLB time by now?

  303. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    Al from BK, I’m not in favor of dealing Tabata.

  304. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    “aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand… Good Aftahnoon everybody!”

  305. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    Okay Tiger is holding off the Bronson talk. But not for much longer. :lol:

  306. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Screw the Indians any 2 or 3 prospects we send them would be better than the players they would get from the 09 picks. The Twins were greedy they could have had Lester/Ellsbury or Melky and a few other guys instead the Mets sent them Gomez and a few OK pitching prospects.

  307. Stormrider6 June 16th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    The wait on news about Wang is killing me, and killing my productivity at work today. The discussion about trades is great though! I love reading what everyone has to say… I’m glad that you all are willing to share your knowledge about prospects, as well as provide great entertainment (Nick in SF, I’m talking to you)!

    Since there’s no game tonight, I really hope my Yankeeography box set arrives today…

  308. murphydog June 16th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Don’t know if everybody but me saw this already. (Been a busy day).

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/06.....115755.htm

  309. randy l June 16th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    dennis-
    wear your red sox hat so i’ll recognize you.

    looking forward to meeting you and amy.

  310. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Yankees waiting on bad news. Um how about we are waiting and hoping for some good news on Wang. Hopefully the pain was just a shock, and it wore off and got better. Lets be a little positive here.

  311. Ryan June 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    If the Dodgers are involved, they have the best pieces to get a deal done. Between DeWitt, Laroche, Ethier, and Kemp, two of those pieces plus a minor league pitcher would trump the offers I’ve read on here.

  312. Bryan (Yankees fan) June 16th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    I will be in Wellfleet this weekend… who has a store there and what kind?

  313. SJ44 June 16th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Russell,

    No. One has nothing to do with the other. Right now, Melky is their starting CF. If they decide to deal him, they know what Gardner is at minimum. A #9 hitter with speed, who can give them good defense.

    They don’t need him to be in the majors to show them what he can do at a minimum.

  314. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    So golf is more important than bedtime stories for the kids..

  315. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Well the bottle is to left of my desk. I’m waiting for it “Bronson Arroyo” after each mention it’s dtraight shots LoHud, who’s in ?

  316. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    I wonder what it would take to get Peavy I’d start with Hughes and IPK.

  317. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    straight * :lol:

  318. Dennis-Costanza(Sox fan) June 16th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Bryan.

    Hit Randy’s name. Then hit his full profile and you can see his store.

    Have a good week.

    -dennis

  319. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    didnt Peavy just get an extention to stay in SD?

  320. mel June 16th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    O/T

    But for those of you who can’t watch it on tv, here’s the live feed for the Open playoff:

    http://tinyurl.com/5p4qvp

  321. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    Ya turn two I was obviously taking a hit on my bong when I typed that. Dare to dream man I think they would consider if the deal started with Hughes.

  322. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    Frankly, I don’t care who in the minors we have to deal to get CC.

    Don’t care at all. You know why?

    Because all these names you are all throwing around in the minors can do NOTHING to help the Yankees win this season and may never be the big leaguers some of you are projecting them to be.

    CC is a front of the rotation starter. If Wang wasn’t hurt, I was ready to go all in to get him.

    Let’s say that again — He is a FRONT OF THE ROTATION STARTER.

    How many legit front of the rotation starters are in baseball? 10? 15?

    They are so much more valuable than prospects, it’s not funny.

    Add in that CC is 27 and helps us win now and hopefully in the future, there should be no debate.

    All these prospects are to any of you are names at this point. They are not major league baseball players.

    Give up the wishing and hoping pipe dream that all these prospects are going to be all stars and project to be “so and so” and realize that this team can win the world series this year with strong front end starting pitching.

    The league is that wide open. No team is that dominant. Not even the Red Sox. They’re vulnerable.

    We can win the series this year. But we need to use the names in the minors to get a guy like CC.

    Here’s a question — would you rather have a world series this year, the final year in the stadium or would you rather have Tabata, Betances, etc.

    I’ll take the world series. I could care less if the prospects become all stars for other teams if we win the series this year.

    There will be other prospects that come in the future. We’ll replace them.

    What we won’t replace are Mo, Arod, Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, etc. Guys who are playing for the championship now and who deserve the best team and the best chance they can get.

  323. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    “Melky, McCutchen and either McAllister or Betances for CC and David Dellucci.”

    If that were the deal I’d be jumping for joy.

  324. PJH June 16th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    Why would Cleveland want Melky? He is not a good enough hitter to play the corner outfield positions. They have Sizemore in center.

  325. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    G. Love:

    A-F’n-men.

  326. Francis The Praying Mantis June 16th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    Bad news on Wang

    “Yankees RHP Chien-Ming Wang injured in yesterdays 13-0 win over the Astros career is in jeopardy. After injuring his foot in the top of the 6th inning, the Yankee ace has been diagnosed with gangrene and his foot may have to be amputated due to smoking es cigarettes.”

  327. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    I always thought that C.C. loved NY if he got traded here I think he would sign an extension at the right price. I know it is cliche to think all players want to be Yankees but who wouldnt want to be a Yankee for big money.

  328. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    Mike, says because he left the park on crutches on an air cast he is out awhile. Um maybe it is cause they don’t know what is going on yet. Houston didn’t have an x-ray machine so they are being extra careful with him.

    Darnit, Mike or better yet Tiger ruined the game. :(

  329. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    How about Rich Hill from the Cubs? He’s 28, a lefthander, and had a solid season last year. He is struggling some this year, but perhaps he is worth the chance, provided the Yaankee staff can get him over the hump. He would come relatively cheap, and would save our prospects.

  330. Brent (This Damon Guy's For Real, Huh?) June 16th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    I just read a Tyler Kepner article and he had a good point..

    Having Wang, Sabathia, and Chamberlain as our top 3 next year would be an amazing rotation..then throw in a mixture of kennedy/hughes/mussina/pettitte(doubtful), you’ve got yourself a rotation!

    I mean, I don’t want to give up the farm for him..I understand that point..but on paper, it looks amazing.

  331. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    You guys think Beane is gonna rape a team for Harden which prospects do you think he is interested on.

  332. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    *IN

  333. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 16th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    a healthy dose of optimism

    We all need it.

  334. MoBoy June 16th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    Randy Wolfe?

  335. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    “Having Wang, Sabathia, and Chamberlain as our top 3 next year would be an amazing rotation..then throw in a mixture of kennedy/hughes/mussina/pettitte(doubtful), you’ve got yourself a rotation!” – Brent

    Oh Yeah! With that kind of lineup, barring major injury, we would be contenders for the WS for the next 10 years!

  336. V June 16th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    G. Love and TurnTwo, you know you’d be the two biggest whiners if the Yankees won the World Series this year, then were uncompetitive for the next 5.

    Which is what would happen if they emptied the system to win now (see Tigers, Mets).

  337. mel June 16th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Al,

    C’mon dude. Find another word to use.

  338. PJH June 16th, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    With a rotation of Wang, Sabathia, Joba, if you get some kind of relief pitching you are looking at a dynasty.

  339. V June 16th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    My 11:45 post:

    “Ok, the system’s loaded. I have a great idea: the Yankees should deal Hughes+Tabata for CC, then how about Horne+Marquez+Melancon+Cox+Montero for Harden+Blanton. Then Austin Jackson+Robertson for Fuentes.

    Awesome, they get CC, Harden, Blanton, and Fuentes, and all they have to do is totally clear out their system, and start over from scratch!”

  340. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    Sabathia is the only pitcher worth the prospects. Do you think theres any possibility of getting a negotiating window with his agent. He would immediately change the rotation and I think a new place is what he needs because he had a bad April doesnt mean that hes no longer a top 10 pitcher because I think he is. Also everyone always mentions that he is an injury risk at 27 because his weight/mechanics etc. There is another 27 year old pitcher who nobody expected to get injured it could happen to anyone. If the Yanks are legit contenders this year they will get C.C. if not they will be a .500 or less team.

  341. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Well to make time fly by this is an interesting article.

    Arod and Pete Rose

  342. V June 16th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    You know what would look awesome? A Ferrari in my garage.

    But I’m not going to overpay for one.

  343. 27 this year June 16th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    No Randy Wolfe. I look on MLBTR and looking at Wolfe’s stats away from PETCO, extreme pitcher’s park, they are horrendous. In the AL, he would get owned.

    I say no to CC because other than last year, he was only an innings-eater, not an ace. Therefore, giving up too much value is going hurt us.

    No to Harden because we will get ripped off on the deal.

    I also say we cant call up someone too quickly from teh minors. THe problem with us is we call up guys too quickly and then they fall apart and we think they are done. Kennedy is an example, we brought him up and he did good. Then we thought he was ready but he needs more time in the minors. Joba is amazing and an exception. We can’t risk bringing up someone like McCluteon or Horne or like someone said Aceves, because if they do good, we are going to hurt their development because we wouldn’t let them stay in the minors or they fail adn we think they suck.

    Just pick between Giese my choice, Igawa agh, Karstens ehh.., Kennedy not prefered needs time in minors, or someone I probably left out.

  344. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    Mel- sorry for offending you, next time I’ll use hose,jack,rob,steal,rip-off,own, something less offensive Im truly sorry.

  345. 27 this year June 16th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    “How about Rich Hill from the Cubs? He’s 28, a lefthander, and had a solid season last year. He is struggling some this year, but perhaps he is worth the chance, provided the Yaankee staff can get him over the hump. He would come relatively cheap, and would save our prospects.

    Only issue is we need proven pitchers because we are full of question marks, otherwise, nice out of the box thinking but he is more longterm and I dont know whether trading prospects for prospects is the best idea. Just not the ace. He is more of a 4th or 5th this year.

  346. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    Look internal? He’s the same GM who said he’d start Bubba in CF.

  347. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop (aka Joe) June 16th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    “So golf is more important than bedtime stories for the kids..”

    On Father’s Day too.

  348. Patrick (the good one) June 16th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    You know what would look awesome? A Ferrari in my garage.

    But I’m not going to overpay for one.

    What if we could get CC for the deal SJ44 proposed? Melky, McCutchen, Betances/McAllister. I think in reality the Yanks would have to pay more but the deal SJ is proposing is pretty fair.

  349. mel June 16th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    Al,

    :)

  350. bodhisattva June 16th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    A little clarification might be in order regarding Tabata/Ramirez comparison:

    No one has projected Manny-like power for Tabata; I have only seen the comparison made in regard to Tabata’s discriminating pitch selection.

    Having actually seen Tabata mutiple times live – lol, unlike, I’m guessing, many posters here who just cavalierly throw his name into hypothetical trades – I can confirm that he is very selective at the plate.

    And if I’m not mistaken, I believe he will soon or JUST TURNED 20.

  351. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    V,

    the core of this team is ready to compete now, and win now; not in 5 years.

    and the yankees have a much more substantial system than that of the Mets and Tigers. that means you can afford to take a hit now, and still remain prepare to build for the future.

    its simply just a mistake to build your whole case of rebuilding a future dynasty on prospects who, for the most part, havent played above high-A Tampa.

    a lot can happen in 2 years, let alone 5 years from now.

  352. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    Bell

    Speaking of, he just retired.

  353. Russell NY June 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    “You know what would look awesome? A Ferrari in my garage.
    But I’m not going to overpay for one.”

    You will if there is only 1 Ferrari in production and have a 200 million/year budget :)

  354. mel June 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    Let’s say Wang’s out. No C.C. riding in on a magic carpet.

    This is your rotation:

    -Chamberlain
    -Moose
    -Pettitte
    -Rasner
    -Contestant #5

    Hardly ideal, but hardly the end of the world.

  355. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    V,

    It would not happen. If we won the WS this year there is no way this team would remain uncompetitive for the next 5 years.

    What exactly in this debate leads you to that conclusion? Your pie in the sky faith in prospects that can’t help the team now or in the next few seasons?

    None of these guys are even going to be ready next season and we’re clutching onto them for what?

    2010?

    By 2010 they could have either flamed out, topped out or suffered an injury.

    Why should we bank/bet on guys who are 3 seasons away when they can be dealt for someone who helps now?

    And whatever we lose in a trade, we can get back through drafting and through international free agent signings.

    It’s not like if we trade prospects who are 3 years away, there won’t be any other prospects in the future.

    There will always be prospects. The freaking draft is 1000 rounds long.

    Whatever prospects we’d have to trade to get CC, a top of the rotation starter who is 27, are worth it. End of story.

    They’ll be replaced. You don’t think they will? Fine. But you’re wrong.

    It’s more wrong to assume that dealing prospects means we won’t find more than it is to assume that dealing them means we won’t win again for 5 years.

    Your logic is flawed. Completely.

  356. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    Rich Hill??? He can’t even get AAA hitters out.

  357. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    I’ll tell you what, I live here in LA and I will tell you flat out the Dodgers would be interested in any reasonable deal for Derrick Lowe. He has been absolutely solid for the last few years. He’s a proven veteran who is an upgrade from anything we have going now, or in the minors. Also, he would not command the type of cache Sabathia would demand.

    Lowe is like Wang, a sinkerball pitcher who can eat innings and get you wins during the season and postseason. He’s worth a look don’t you think?

  358. Guiseppe Franco June 16th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    Keep in mind that the Tribe would receive two first round draft picks if they simply kept Sabathia and let him walk at the end of the season. So that means the Tribe would demand something of greater value than two first round picks next season.

    People who think that Cashman is going to push the panic button and trade for Sabathia haven’t really been paying attention the past year.

    Cashman refused to part with Joba Chamberlain in a deal to the Rangers for Mark Teixeira last season before the deadline That non-deal worked out pretty well.

    He also refused to part with Kennedy and Melky Cabrera in a deal for Eric Gagne. Considering how badly Gagne tanked in Boston illustrates that non-deal worked out for the Yanks as well.

    Over the offseason, Cashman then refused to include any of these players in a deal for Johan Santana (widely regarded as the best pitcher in the game): Hughes, Kennedy, Wang, Cano, Joba, or Cabrera

    Based on what we’ve witnessed the past year – do you really think Cashman is now going to panic and deal some of these young kids for a free-agent-to-be like Sabathia?

    Don’t bet on it.

    Obviously, losing Wang for such a long time is really going to suck. But it doesn’t make sense to panic and make stupid moves out of desperation.

    Cashman has demonstrated time and time again that there’s a long term plan in place to rebuild from within and that’s exactly what the FO is going to continue to do regardless what the knee jerk fans and media think. I don’t imagine Cashman is going to ask us for our advice on the issue.

    Cashman is not going to trade for Sabathia. They’ll find another way to replace Wang in the rotation.

  359. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    “Your logic is flawed. Completely.”

    Whoa.

  360. G. Love June 16th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    I just want to add something else.

    This team is now 4 games over .500. The only reason they’re not 10 games over .500 right now is the reliance on prospect pitchers for 2/5ths of the rotation this season.

    If those last two rotation spots were filled with league average types, we’d be in first place.

    Reliance on prospects who are not major league ready is not a recipe for winning.

    I’m all for promoting a kid and seeing what they can do, but at the same token this blind faith that these kids are going to all be winners is just silly.

    They’re not. This game is littered with top prospects who didn’t pan out.

  361. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    With all of this going on, can I just say how happy I am Joba is in the rotation now.

    Now he he just has to continue to do well(who knows..) and never get hurt.
    I think we should wrap him up in bubble wrap. :P

  362. Pepitone June 16th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    “There will always be prospects. The freaking draft is 1000 rounds long.”

    I get your point, G. Love, but remember something about prospects. Florida probably thought they could afford to lose A.J. Burnett, Josh Beckett, Brad Penny, and Ryan Dempster (their prospects in the late 90′s) as well and still pick up prospects along the way. I know, Florida is in no way similar to the Yanks in terms of financial stability or assests, however, don’t you think they now wish they had hung onto those prospects if they could?

    Lou Brock was just a “prospect” in 1964. The Cubs needed a veteran pitcher that could help their depleted staff. Who do you think made out on that deal?

    The point I wish to make is, don’t dismiss prospects simply because they are prospects.

  363. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    I really wish they’d hurry up and say whatever is wrong with Wang and how long he’s looking at being out for – because this place certainly needs the distraction.

    I don’t know if trading for CC is the answer or not, especially seeing as no one has any idea what the prognosis for Wang is. But dealing and talking trades from an obvious position of desperation – doesn’t seem like a very smart move to me either.

  364. Blargh June 16th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    G. Love: You’re forgetting the dead offense; they were deader when the youngsters were pitching.

  365. JohnC June 16th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    I’m just curious how many times Francessa has mentioned Bronson Arroyo today so far. ANyone know?

  366. DMan June 16th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    I think the Yankees need to at least try some of there other options before trading for C.C.

    His asking price is going to be so, so high.

  367. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Don’t mind me interupting your day but if anyone is bored at work or needs something to read while the time passes by this is a great article on Pete Rose’s influence on Alex Rodriguez’s game.

    E-Ticket Rose and Rodriguez

    Seriously a very well written article I hope you guys take the time to read it. :)

  368. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    I’m just curious how many times Francessa has mentioned Bronson Arroyo today so far. Anyone know?

    They’re talking golf right now. We’re playing the shots game as soon as he begins.

  369. TKinDC June 16th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    “I really wish they’d hurry up and say whatever is wrong with Wang and how long he’s looking at being out for – because this place certainly needs the distraction.”

    I second that emotion, Angel – this waiting and waiting is annoying as heck.

    Just rip off the band-aid! Tell us what is up.

  370. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    Golf is ruining the Bronson Arroyo drinking game..
    and now onto the Mets

  371. Jet Li June 16th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    Who knows, but may be it is a career ending injury.

  372. Doreen June 16th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    Those are espresso shots, right guys??? :)

  373. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    It’s coming don’t worry SA this drinking game is gonna get alot of people drunk soon, FATCESSA will not be able to ruin this game :lol:

    BTW

    Prospect Of The Day by Baseball America goes to
    drumroll…..

  374. Mark Da Rosa June 16th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    How long before they have the MRI results?

  375. mel June 16th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Sips of tea for me, Doreen.

    Golf just switched to NBC.

    Difficult putt to save par for Tiger. At least 3 shot lead for Tiger if Rocco makes this bogey putt.

  376. Anyone but Farnsworth June 16th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    i love how they are ripping the mets.. ahhah

  377. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    I might have time to run to a liquor store, right now all I have at my desk is Diet Coke. ;)

    I agree with their little rant regarding Willie/Mets. The Mets don’t know what they are doing..

  378. Russell NY June 16th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    M+MD are absolutely right about the Mets and that their organization is a joke.

  379. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    He just said the Mets organization is scared 8O

  380. pat June 16th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Brandon

    Thanks for the link. It was a good read.

  381. randy l June 16th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    there’s a variable in the conundrum the yankees are in over this year vs. the future.

    that variable is how good joba is going to be.

    if he turns out to be a flat out gifted prodigy who turns out to be a gooden this year, then the yankees have already replaced their ace.

    then they just need to get a #4 starter to make it through the summer without wang.

    if joba is just human and is just a talented rookie who wins 10 games or so the yankees have a different situation.

    i’d say wait 3-4 starts with joba and see what he’s doing. if he’s doing great ,there’s no need to go crazy with trades.

  382. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    No problem Pat I never knew that Pete Rose and Alex were exchanging text tips since 2006.

  383. mel June 16th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    I heard that ownership has give the keys to Omar decide Willie’s fate. They might compromise and fire his coaches first.

    If your guys got fired before you, would you quit?

  384. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    “then they just need to get a #4 starter to make it through the summer without wang.

    if joba is just human and is just a talented rookie who wins 10 games or so the yankees have a different situation.”

    or… best case scenerio, Joba turns out to be an ace, and they can go out and make a deal for CC, and grab the American League by the throad and squeeze.

  385. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    by the throat** and squeeze

  386. Doreen June 16th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    mel -

    I just got in, and I can’t find the golf match on t.v. Is it being telecast? I put on ESPN and it was after the first 8 holes, and it sounded like Tiger was one up at the time.

    I was hoping to see an update about Wang here, but listened to XM sports radio almost all morning/early afternoon in the car, and they had nothing, so I kind of figured, “no news is no news.” One thing that Buck Martinez said really ticked me off, though, and that was in response to whether the Yankees would make a trade for CC (which I don’t want, as I’ve said before), he said the Yankees had NOTHING in their system to get him. NOTHING. Mark Patrick did disagree, however, and said, in all fairness, Buck, the Yankees have a ton of arms in their system. So Martinez then said, well, they have no position players and Cleveland needs position players so the Yankees are not a good trading partner for them. I thought, “How interesting.”

    But he did go on and on about how wonderful the Red Sox system is and how brillian Theo Epstein is to be rebuilding the Red Sox, blah, blah, blah. I know the Red Sox are a good team, I just don’t like to listen people on the radio say it, at which point, I changed channels!

    So, the speculation as to what the Yankees will do if Wang needs to miss a lot of time is very a very compelling discussion. A lot will depend upon whether it’s a season-ending injury. If so, I figure all bets are off. If not, then I don’t see them going outside the organization. And even if it is, I’m not sure they’lll go outside the organization right away. It’s a tough call. They could get very lucky again with some of the internal stop-gaps, which would mean they’re not desperate and might get a better trade. But if they aren’t lucky and the internal fixes don’t work out, then they are very desperate and who knows what it would take to get a trade done.

    I like what someone above said about if they get CC, and then let him go and get the picks. I thought that was an interesting concept, and would totally, totally depend on the players involved. You have to feel – I mean the Yankees have to feel like they won’t really miss what was given up for a 2 to 3 month rental. It will be interesting to see.

    Well, fingers crossed for Wang.

  387. pat June 16th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    “If your guys got fired before you, would you quit?”

    They aren’t his guys. He was given the coaching staff. The only person he hired was already fired last year.

  388. PJH June 16th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    A little thought for the idea that Wang is done for the year.

    I doubt many of you follow hockey, but late in the season Scott Gomez, a key player for the Rangers got injured. He went into the end boards really hard and there was tons of speculation on the part of the media. One said he had cracked ribs, others said he had dislocated his shoulder, etc. It turned out that he had bruised ribs.

    This is just one example of the media sometimes jumping the gun with speculation.

    So dont read into the speculation of the lisfranc fracture that some reporters are putting out there.

    Its been said before, but if Bruney did not get hurt, these guys would not know what that means.

    Leave it to the doctors, not the reporters.

  389. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    I would love Rich Harden hes a K machine but once again a huge health risk.

  390. Russell NY June 16th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    I hope the Angels absolutely destroy the Mets this weekend.

  391. Russell NY June 16th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    *week

  392. mel June 16th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    Doreen,

    The first 9 were on ESPN (I was watching the online simulcast) and the last 9 are now on NBC.

    Tiger just gave back one, and he’s in the fairway bunker on the next hole.

  393. pat June 16th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    doreen

    Golf is on NBC.

  394. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    The dynamic duo sure were feisty in that segment and I agree with what they were saying.

    Make a decision Mets and go from there. Letting Willie twist in the wind like he has been is a disgrace.

  395. MikeEff June 16th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Doreen- the golf switched over to NBC

  396. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 16th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Mel one thing I’m good at is sniffing out a rat, and Omar Minaya is starting to smell like one. I’m not going into his minor leagues which is pathethic to say the least. But his relationships w/ management and the “supposive” backing for Willie. I don’t believe for one second that Omar has Willie’s back not for one second.

  397. Doreen June 16th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    The other topic of conversation was, of course, Willie Randolph. All I have to say about that situation is if they’re going to fire him, they should just freakin’ do it. It is so classless to let a person hang out like that, not knowing from one day to the next – even one inning to next (because apparently they’re judging his managing on a play-by-play basis) what is going to happen. It is unfair and classless and a total distraction for the team, even if you didn’t give a hoot about Wilie Randolph the person.

    The only other thing I will say about the Mets situation right now is, who gave him the players and left the team with no depth?

  398. Doreen June 16th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Thanks about the golf info. I’ll put on NBC.

  399. mel June 16th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    pat,

    Thanks. Then there’s no need to quit. What a tough situation for Willie.

  400. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 16th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    we interrupt this thread to bring you a special message:

    Scott Gomez and ‘Ranger’ in the same sentence still makes this die-hard Devils fan want to be sick.

  401. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    I’m impressed – women watching golf and knowing what the heck is going on. :)

  402. PJH June 16th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    Rebecca- 11-2 against the Debs this year make you sicker?

  403. TurnTwo June 16th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    “Scott Gomez and ‘Ranger’ in the same sentence still makes this die-hard Devils fan want to be sick.”

    Scott Gomez is dead to me.

  404. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    “The only other thing I will say about the Mets situation right now is, who gave him the players and left the team with no depth?”

    That would be teflon Omar – who apparently had “must have ability to scapegoat” in his job description.

  405. Anyone but Farnsworth June 16th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    The thing that annoys me about Tiger is that it is ok for him to throw his clubs.. It is wrong and it makes him look like he can do whatever he wants and he wont critized for it. Just stop doing it Tiger not very professional like on your part

  406. Sara June 16th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    “I hope the Angels absolutely destroy the Mets this weekend.”

    I couldn’t have said it better myself.

  407. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    I am going nuts waiting on this Wang news.

  408. PJH June 16th, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Who are the 3 starters for Anaheim?

  409. Angel June 16th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    You know, Cashman gets a LOT of criticism on this blog. Some deserved, some not.

    Are there any Mets fans out there that can see the forest for the trees and realize that Omar has to date, been given a free pass. Can they also see that they are giving him a free pass themselves by directing all their vitriol in Willie’s direction and think that firing him will solve all the Mets problems??

  410. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    PJH

    Don’t forget the media had Eli out for the season too. And did he even miss a week?

  411. pat June 16th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Be patient.

    Mondays in hospitals are insanely crazy because of scheduled surgeries and weekend emergencies. The MRI may not have even been done yet.

  412. RhapsodyInBlue June 16th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Which begs the question, how long does it take to xray a foot?

  413. PJH June 16th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    They had Eli with a seperated shoulder and it was bruised

  414. Anyone but Farnsworth June 16th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    Waiting on this Wang news is crazy. Its getting to the late afternoon and we have no news.. I am betting not that serious of an injury but out 2-3 weeks and then Yanks will just take the safe road and make him out for 4 weeks and possible maybe after the Al-Star Break if Wang does not feel 110 percent.

  415. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 16th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    PJH: Yeah, and guess who’s won more Stanley Cups this decade?

  416. PJH June 16th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    Rhapsody- How do you know what time they were having the MRI done? It could be 3 pm for all we know.

  417. NjNuccle June 16th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    http://tinyurl.com/6kan3m

    i like this trade for sabathia to start…enough to sting but fair for bothsides

  418. RhapsodyInBlue June 16th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Yeah, true, but this is a life and death matter and takes priority over all others.

    Be patient.

    Mondays in hospitals are insanely crazy because of scheduled surgeries and weekend emergencies. The MRI may not have even been done yet.

  419. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Weaver tonight vs. Pelfrey
    Lackey vs. Santana
    Garland vs. Perez

  420. mel June 16th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    pat,

    lol. I think that the Yankees will have priority for the Carl Pavano Tube.

    I think the problem is brainstorming the spin and the possible solutions.

  421. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Alright we all must get the idea that Wang is not pitching until September if at all so who replaces him?

  422. PJH June 16th, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Rebecca- What have they done lately? The debs are mediocre at best.

  423. RhapsodyInBlue June 16th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    Yup, could of been done an hour ago too.Suspense is killing me.

    PJH
    June 16th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
    Rhapsody- How do you know what time they were having the MRI done? It could be 3 pm for all we know.

  424. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Anyone but Farnsworth

    Agreed, the Yankees are always concerned about injuries, I have a feeling it is something that will take 2-3 weeks to heal and he’ll be back a week or so after the asb.

  425. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (Jose Tabata Supporter 4 Life !!!!) June 16th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    dammit how long do I have to hear about golf, does anybody really give a damn about this if it’s not Tiger Woods ?

  426. PJH June 16th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Brandon- I would not be watching if it werent Tiger.

  427. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Good first proposal by Bronx Liaison there the only thing different I would do is demand an extension window with C.C. and his agent.

  428. mel June 16th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Al,

    Joba is his replacement. Then you replace Joba, who was presumably the 4th or 5th starter. If Wang is out and you see the Yankees take the WC lead or make significant ground in the division, then trade for a frontline starter. A solution has to present itself, otherwise a desperate panic move will be a lose, lose situation.

  429. Nick in SF but now in Charlotte June 16th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Well, I’ve emailed one of my Yankee fan buddies in Taiwan and asked him pray to Matzu for Wang’s health. He lives in Dajia Town, home to Taiwan’s most prominent Matzu temple. There is also a bagel shop in Dajia Town, so I asked him to have a good luck bagel too. I don’t know what else to do.

  430. bphill June 16th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    any news yet? I just had a final exam…

  431. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (Jose Tabata Supporter 4 Life !!!!) June 16th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    I just can’t believe w/ Willie Randolph job uncertain forever, Wang’s injury status still a mystery, These 2 morons are play by playing each F’n hole ! :evil:

  432. JoeT 28 in 09!! June 16th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    Nick – solid work… I think that’s all that can be done – maybe call in a medicine man??

    This is driving me nuts though – i want to know already

    I’m banking on the next blog headline to read: “Wang OK, will miss one start”

  433. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Mel- If Wang is out for the year then we will be out of it by the trading deadline if we wait til then its ok to sit on your hands because the season is lost. I say they should only do the trade if they get a contract window.

  434. Russell NY June 16th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    “Mondays in hospitals are insanely crazy because of scheduled surgeries and weekend emergencies. The MRI may not have even been done yet.”

    I bet you Wang and his ankle are 50 spots ahead of the guy with the chopped off arm and the woman without a skull.

  435. RhapsodyInBlue June 16th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    “Wang OK” foot pain due to gas cramps.

  436. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    A. Golf is not a Sport. Its a hobby. Just like Bowling.
    B. I think if we Joba has to stop fist pumping. So should Tiger.
    C. Tiger looks like hes on b-12

    Dont know a thing about golf accept that Tigers wife looks better than that girl in white at yesterdays game.

  437. Confucius June 16th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    “Reliance on prospects who are not major league ready is not a recipe for winning.

    I’m all for promoting a kid and seeing what they can do, but at the same token this blind faith that these kids are going to all be winners is just silly.”

    Totally agreed. One problem:

    Too late.

    We didn’t trade valued prospects for JOHAN SANTANA. Despite the opinions of people on this blog who think Sabathia is a LEET DOMINATING ACE~, Sabathia

  438. pat June 16th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    Does everyone feel better now that you know? I don’t.

  439. mel June 16th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    Beautiful shot by Tiger.

    My point is that if the rest of the starters don’t keep up their good work. If the offense doesn’t keep producing, then no one, not even C.C., is going to help us this season. Of course he’d be an asset, but do it on your terms. We’re trying to get away from the albatross contracts.

  440. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    I can almost guarantee Wang went to a low key MRI facility not Kings county and the Yanks likely sent a team of docs with him to analyze the MRI.

  441. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (Jose Tabata Supporter 4 Life !!!!) June 16th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    :(

  442. blackdragon905 June 16th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    wang has a partial tear in his lesfranc has to have a boot on his foot for at least 6 weeks just heard it on m and md

  443. Confucius June 16th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    (looks like the less than symbol screwed the post)

    Sabathia (less than) Santana by a safe mile. We look like something between blindly desperate and galactically stupid if we now treat Sabathia like greater royalty than Santana. Agree with Cashman’s plan or not, he married himself to it this Winter; you can’t agree with divorcing from it now for a far inferior pitcher, even if Wang, Mussina, AND Joba are hurt.

    And if you think we’re trading for Sabathia, then letting him walk at the end of the season, you must be smoking something. The Indians will want arguably more than the Twins wanted for Santana. It’s a mid-season trade, it will be hard for them to believe or to convince their fanbase that they’re out of contention, and they will sense our desperation. That’s to say nothing of the other teams involved. We will have to GUT our farm to bring him here. Once we do that, there is no way in hell we consider turning him into a couple of draft picks, no matter how badly he might pitch the rest of the season. When do the Yankees EVER do business like that? We’ll tie him up with a huge contract as soon as he arrives, and his agent isn’t going to settle for anything less than a free agency deal. As soon as Sabathia gets that kind of security, you can forget about him keeping himself in shape.

    Of course the deal’s going to happen. I knew as soon as we passed on Santana (despite bringing Clemens, Igawa, Brown, Pavano, and on and on and on to this team in prior years), that Sabathia would be a Yankee in a year. The only time this team ever decides to develop prudence toward the payroll and/or the youth, it’s with a player that they should acquire at any cost. Then when they realize what a mistake they made, the prudence disappears, and they end up with another bad contract and more gaping holes in their farm.

    If we include Betances in a Sabathia deal, mark my words: in three years, Carmona and Betances will be a force at the top of the Tribe’s rotation, and Sabathia will be 350 pounds and getting booed off the Stadium mound every start. You’ll see a hundred insane trade proposals on this blog every day (“Phils dangling Howard!!! think they’d be interested in Safattya???”) that will be summarily shot down (“maybe if we eat 85% of his contract”). We’ll long for the days when Pavano was our biggest embarrassment. Mark the words of Confucius.

  444. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Can someone translate what mike and dog were just babling about.

  445. Anyone but Farnsworth June 16th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    I honestly believe that what Tiger is doing in this tournament is comparable to some of the acts MJ pulled. Whether his injury is that bad, it is clearly hurting him and screwing up several of his shots. He is not 100 percent but yet he is gutting and willing himself in this tournament and making big put after big put. No one else on the tour has his courage or mental strength to be doing this. On the final note i believe he has made a lot of new golf fans this week. Especially woods fans, simply the 18th hole yesterday showed that he is unlike any other athlete in the world and very simaliry to Jordan. Down, under the weather and not hundred percent but he makes the clutch put, just how Jordan made all the big shots when supposedly had the flu or the stomach virus. Tiger is just simply amazing and a very influential athelte.

  446. MoBoy June 16th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Guess Wang isn’t coming back till August maybe more.

  447. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    “any news yet?”

    Its funny. I havnt felt this eager to know the result since being in the delivery room wondering if its a boy or a girl.
    Please doctor tell us that our boy is healthy!!

  448. pat June 16th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    6 weeks in a boot for Wang. Lizfranc it is.

  449. S.A.- No pain..no gain June 16th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Hmmm
    Kay’s show coming up soon on 1050. Maybe he will discuss/have some news on the Wang situation.

  450. rover June 16th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    for me its quite simple, there are to many teams in regard to pitching talent. The one thing that shouldn’t happen is a pitcher to get injured when it is not at all necessary. they are prime meat. the nl should adopt the dh. it is in their best intersts period. there are many ways for a pitcher to be injured and on the base path should not be one of them. i don’t care if in the nl it rarely happens, it only takes once to throw a team into turmoil, end careers end seasons. pitchers hitting is ridiculous in most cases anyway. some can hit, but so what. you want a hit or a healthy pitcher. nostalgists want to see the pitcher, but at todays shortages and prices risking a pitcher in such manner defies logic. jmo

  451. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Okay this is too weird. Two guys on the same team have the same strange injury that no ball players get.

  452. mel June 16th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    pat,

    What????

  453. Zach in Port Jeff June 16th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    According to Fatso and Fruitloops…

    Wang probably not back until playoff time.

  454. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 16th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    PJH: Actually, considering the Devils weren’t even supposed to make the playoffs last year, they’ve done quite a bit.

    It would be amazing if Wang didn’t have to miss more than two or three starts, but that’s extreme optimism thinking.

  455. Al from BK June 16th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Hmmm ok now we know C.C. anyone?

  456. pat June 16th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    mel

    sorry. Thought someone would have already posted the diagnosis before me.

  457. Skippy June 16th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Just heard the Wang news. The worst part about foot injuries is that it’s so hard to do any kind of conditioning. When the boot comes off, he’s going to be starting over completely. In August.

  458. MoBoy June 16th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    This cements the idea the Big Three isn’t all gonna be in the rotation next year so people need to throw those “SAve the Big Three” shirts out in the garbage.And no minor leaguers can help us this time.And thazt includes Hughes.

  459. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    Have him pitch with the boot dammitt!!

  460. MoBoy June 16th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    I wish more sports stations would talk about WAngs injury but there talking too much about stupid Golf.Who watches that crap?

  461. jennifer June 16th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    moboy

    I know right!!

  462. rover June 16th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    it is likely that without a huge cash expenditure and some prospect tradeoffs, the yankee season may just gotten the Boot.

  463. rover June 16th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    I wish more sports stations would talk about WAngs injury but there talking too much about stupid Golf.Who watches that crap?

    that would be the same people who go down town to watch the lights come on, right after they stand all day along side a highway, watching the white lines fade.

  464. S.o.S.27 June 16th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    “Who watches that crap?”

    List of Crap on t.v.
    1.golf
    2.poker
    3.bowling
    4.nascar
    5.wnba
    6.wwe
    7?

  465. Nick in SF but now in Charlotte June 16th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    At this point, won’t we be happy if Wang is back in time to pitch any game of consequence? That’s if any of our games are of consequence by that point.

  466. Russell NY June 16th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    “Imaging studies revealed a mid-foot sprain of the Lisfranc ligament of the right foot and a partial tear of the peroneal longus tendon of the right foot.

    Wang will be on crutches and wear a protective boot for a minimum of six weeks.”

    SPRAINNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

  467. MoBoy June 16th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    rover:

    I watch Football,Basketball you know actual sports where people run.Remember when Tiger got beat by that South American guy who looked fat and was a chain smoker.Sure watching people walk around all day is fun.

    Golf,Bowling,Wrestling,Poker are Hobbies not sports.

    But I guess Sabathia is now on Cashmans list of got to get.This is the last season in Baseballs most famous stadium the Yankees are gonna have too look for a Ace.What a crappy day.

  468. MoBoy June 16th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Sorry Rover wrong person.

  469. Bell June 16th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    FYI. When has Cashman ever made a panic trade?

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