Faceoff about the Mets … or tell your story
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 17, 2008 
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The Mets are getting hammered from all sides for the disgraceful way they treated Willie Randolph.
On LoHud.com, columnists Sam Borden and Rick Carpiniello are writing about it on our new Faceoff blog. So check out the debate.
Meanwhile, have you ever been fired in a worst way than Willie was? If you wouldn’t mind sharing your story, The Journal News and LoHud.com would like to know for a piece we are working on today.
Send your tale of woe to Susie Arth at sarth@lodhud.com and she will get back to you.
————
I covered the Mets for a few years before moving over to the Yankees beat. I thought then and still do that they need a Vice President of Common Sense. If you want to fire the manager, that’s fine. Hold a press conference in New York, fire him and take questions.
The Yankees dragged out Joe Torre’s departure. But when it was done Randy Levine, the brothers Steinbrenner and Brian Cashman got on a conference call and defended the move.
What the Mets did was akin to Silvio taking Adriana for a ride into the woods. Was it only a year ago that Omar Minaya was being celebrated on the cover of Sports Illustrated? Our advice to Omar: Don’t get in the car, they’re coming for you next.
Weep not for Willie, he has a contract through the end of 2009. It’ll be interesting to see where he lands in baseball. Perhaps back with the Yankees in some capacity.
Hey Omar….Karmic payback is a b___h!
That team is like “Days of our Lives” right now.
Their ship is sinking
-S Hillenbrand
Well they are holding a press conference in Cali. Probably in a small room that only 5 people can fit it.
Their ship is sinking
-Shea Hillenbrand
More like Shea Stadium.
What a disasterous situation.
Yanks need to take 2/3 vs the pads. GO YANKS
Alan Horne started throwing again.
http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.....x#Comments
Jun 17 : Giese will be the short term replacement for Chien-Ming Wang who will be out until September with a foot injury. Giese is 1-1 this season with a 1.23 ERA in three relief appearences, he has never started a Major League game, reports the New York Times.
.
from ESPN.com
.
SWEET !!!…This kid has been LIGHTS OUT….We better be ready for a replacement for Rasner, though….It may be that his rockets are starting to run outta fuel….
I think the yankees should have an opening for willie. he was a loyal lieutenants for torre, a player for many years, and most importantly, he understands ny. he did a great job getting soriano to play hard, maybe he can make cano a perennial all-star.
maybe the 3rd base coaching job? special assistant? if i was cashman, i’d have already called him 10 times ask offered to bring him back to ny in a private jet
We need Giese to step up in a big way, or the next option is he who shall not be named.
Willie was an awful third base coach, if people need reminding.
The Yankees aren’t going to break up their coaching staff for Willie. If he goes anywhere it will be upstairs in some capacity.
I just would like everyone to know that I am available for work. You know … if anyone is hiring. Just saying that I’m available. I give very flexible hours.
i hope he comes back as 3rd base coach with the yanks we won 4 WS when he was a coach on our team! and we all know that the yankees have the full respect to him (that he didnt get a bit in queens) . Jeter once said that his sucsess is thanks to willi coaching him!
Hey Rebecca, I think you’re talking about Kei Igawa. Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s his name. Kei. Just thought I’d help you out!
Rebecca: Volde-GAWA!
There is no reason for Willie to take any job right now.
Any job he gets now reduces the amount of money the Wilpon’s owe him.
Willie should sit tight and make sure the Wilpon’s make their payments on every first and fifteenth of the month until the end of next season. The end of his current contract.
Why should he make the Wilpon’s life easier? No reason to with the way they treated him.
So do you kill Meachem to make room for Willie?
jennifer,
maybe i forgot, but how was willie an awful third base coach. he was aggressive and the players liked him. i remember jeter saying willie as an excellent coach.
Roto: Indians signed INF Morgan Ensberg to a minor league contract and assigned him to Triple-A Buffalo.
As we said when he was released by the Yankees a week ago, the 33-year-old has hit just .225/.308/.371 in 143 games dating back to last season. He’ll provide organizational depth for a team that could look to start selling pieces soon.
Brent and Ellen: See, I shudder even hearing the name mentioned…
Oh my lord-this is some interesting radio today.
It’s like a car accident with all this Mets stuff, I just have to observe
Jeter on WFAN now.
Jeter is on WFAN now
Free Willie for 3rd Base Coach…..
Dan Giese = Aaron Small ?
“Meanwhile, have you ever been fired in a worst way than Willie was? If you wouldn’t mind sharing your story, The Journal News and LoHud.com would like to know for a piece we are working on today.” – Was it HL Mencken who said “The function of a newspaper is to comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable?
“What the Mets did was akin to Silvio taking Adriana for a ride into the woods. Was it only a year ago that Omar Minaya was being celebrated on the cover of Sports Illustrated? Our advice to Omar: Don’t get in the car, they’re coming for you next.” – Pete, that was perfect.
im not a big meachem fan. but it doesnt mean 3rd base coach just bring him back place him in some good position and mets town should see every day in a yankee uniform with a winning yankee team!
DEREK JETER LIVE ON MIKE AND THE MAD DOG!
-Feels bad for Willie, hopefully he gets another opportunity
-Too bad about Wang, but we can’t feel sorry for ourselves. Someone has to step up. I think we will be ok
what is jeter saying?
Why should Joe’s staff be broken up for Willie? Is that fair to Joe? Bobby is a Joe guy. A little unfair no?
As a Yankee fan we have to give thanks to the Mets for showing our organization how not to act.
If Omar called the hit on Willie, he better get used to that red laser dot floating around on his head. He won’t make it to the new stadium.
SA: Thanks for the summary.
Derek Jeter, class act.
Derek is nothing if not consistent. Says the same thing to everyone.
Spoke about Willie, said he didn’t hear until an hour ago, that he isn’t up at 3 am. Um yeah right Jeet.
Said hasn’t paid attention to what is going on across town, since ‘we’ have our own problems. But hopes he gets another job.
@ Jennifer: because Bobby Meacham sucks.
-Thinks the team will go on a little run. Like what he has seen so far
Joe did not get to choose his bench, 1st base, pitching or hitting coach…why should one more matter
It would fun to see Willie coaching on the NL bench in Yankee uniform during the Allstar game 
-Trying to get 1 hit a day…
-When I hit the ball the other way, that’s when I feel the best.
-Joba doing well. Must be odd with the pitch counts. Now he can just go out and pitch. Did well the last time.
I probably missed some chunks…but pretty much it. Nothing shocking from the captain
Get Willie a Silkwood shower to wash those garish colors off him.
When I was in College I had a part time job testing mattresses. I didn’t last very long and got fired for sleeping on the job.
Willie needs to become the Cano’s personal coach.
I bet he would sign a 2 year contract for $1.
Sweep the Padres!
Derek Jeter: “I love Willie’s Randolph”
O/T,
But for the Laura Posada and “Stache” fans, there’s a video at the Yankee page of mlb.com.
Laura shows off her “wishbone” bracelet that you’re supposed to wear until it breaks.
And Giambi shows off the new coat of his lip critter. He’s cleans up pretty well, but he looks like a fat cat from some old spaghetti Western film.
thanks a lot guys.
i’m not saying it’s fair to girardi. but willie would be an asset to the yankees and the guys has been given the shaft. if the mini steins show a lot of class here and bring him aboard, it’s just good karma. unlike the hapless wilpons
Had a job up in Boston once a few years back. Things were going reasonably well. Averaged 94 wins a season and was on the cusp of bringing the local professional baseball team to the World Series in god knows how long. Not sure what it was that made me do it, but one night in New York I pretty much sat and watched as my starting pitcher allowed hits to 5 of the last 8 batters he faced enroute to blowing a 3 run lead in a Game 7 we went on to lose in extra innings.
Apparently this was a pretty big deal up in Boston, becuase out of the blue, they fired me. Couple years later, I went out to LA. Took the team to the playoffs in my 1str year on the job. Didn’t do so well the next season, but still had a wining record when the owner, a guy from Boston fired me again.
VOIII,
The only guy Joe G. chose was the 3B coach.
Russell,
No. I specifically heard Jeter say, “I love my Willie”.
and his bullpen coach.
Here we go-the Yankees did a terrible job with Joe..
“Hank is a dope when it comes to MLB”
does anyone else have trouble accessing the swb yanks blog???
Is there anyone these guys don’t hate?
Besides Bronson Arroyo?
(thnx-Jen)
mel – can’t knock him for that. I love my Willie too.
mel: More hate = more listneners!
RayBlay
I”ve been having trouble for a while. Just keep trying eventually you’ll be able to get on.
The only way to take those two is by playing the drinking game.
Good thing I’m at work, otherwise my liver would be in trouble.
Damn! Igawa has been superb today in SWB. He’s who Cashman refers to as “next”. Sadly, he’s making a nice argument.
Russell,
I’m sure you do, but Jeter’s probably gets more love!
Igawa..
**shudders in fear**
“Damn! Igawa has been superb today in SWB. He’s who Cashman refers to as “nextâ€. Sadly, he’s making a nice argument.”
Cash also mentioned Karstens and Horne – but it seemed pretty clear from the comments that Giese would get the first crack at it.
I wonder if they are going to bring up Robertson to help the bullpen?
Here is my resume for anyone who is interested.
Gary Carter
560 Village Blvd, Suite 260
West Palm Beach, FL 33409
561-686-3088
http://www.garycarter.org
Seeking employment in the northeast US. Management position preferred.
Professional Experience
1974-1991 – Major League Baseball catcher. 324 home runs hit, eleven all-star game appearances, with two MVP’s. Three gold glove awards. Career deemed Hall of Fame worthy in 2003. Highlight of career was time spent playing for the New York Mets of Flushing, New York. Was integral part of 1986 World Series championship. During time serving as Mets catcher, was a popular figure in New York, beloved by all fans of the New York Mets.
1993-1996 – Florida Marlins baseball analyst. Understands what it is to be a media figure, and therefore capable of serving either in a media capacity or in any capacity in which understanding of the media is a valuable aid.
2005-2006 – Minor league manager for the New York Mets of Flushing, New York. Understands what it is to be a baseball manager. Extensive experience turning lazy and immature men with no heart into super-star players. Intimately familiar with many current New York Mets.
2007-Present – President of the Gary Carter charity Foundation. Understands what it is to be an executive, and therefore can mantain fulfilling relationship with any executives.
M+MD are on same page as me that he didn’t deserve to be fired.
Keith is a former coke head, why are we surprised that he complains about going on road trips?
Bring back Willie he can 3B coach instead of Meachem that sounds poetic.
Joe DiMaggio, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy KingDome come.
Thy Willie be done,
in Shea earth as it is in the Bronx.
Give us this day our baseball game
And forgive us our really way to expensive tickets,
As we forgive those scalpers who drive up the demand.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from Kei Igawa.
Please, for the love of all that’s holy, no Kei Igawa…
Another great post! Good one “gary”
Bring back Willie he can 3B coach instead of Meachem that sounds poetic.
mmore like pathetic, it wasn’t that long ago that Yankees fans were upset w/ Willy sending guys home at the wrong time, Meech has actually done a better job, IDK why people keep on ripping his decisions like that, match his decisions at 3B w/ the league success rate I bet people would be surprised.
I really hope Giese gives his best Rasner impression on Sat.
LOL
Anything to avoid Igawa. He is never getting better what we have seen is his best and it is laughable.
Just thinking out loud.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Rick Peterson working with the Yanks in some capacity. He’s a pretty good pitching coach. And I know he wouldn’t do it, but I’d love Willie at 3rd over Meachem.
Brandon thankfully I am not the only one who remembers that. Wasn’t his name “sent em’ home Willie?
Honestly the Mets won 3 of 4 and he gets axed. Is it his fault the closer pitches like he belongs in New Orleans once a week.
And the saga continues…..the management office deserves all of the hammering from fans, sports writers and hmmm maybe some team players who should have performed for Willie in the first place?
Brandon thankfully I am not the only one who remembers that. Wasn’t his name “sent em’ home Willie?
Yup. At that park it also was “Free Willie” since he gave the other team free outs at an alarming rate.
I think they should just fire the Mets from mlb and make them our AAAA affiliate.
Why cant Meachum get any love here? Youd think he was Schilling manning third base for the Yankees.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Rick Peterson working with the Yanks in some capacity.
And yet he’s no better than Eiland or Rafeal Chaves in AAA. Let me give you a true story “In preseason Rick Peterson had his pitchers start a drill never before heard in baseball, the drill consisted of his players wearing a blinfold at the mound and striding to throw a strike”
Think about that how many wrong things could go wrong throwing from a mound w/ a blind fold.
Omar is saying he had to fire Willie the way he did due to “logitics”
http://www.nj.com/mets/index.s.....andol.html
“Why cant Meachum get any love here? Youd think he was Schilling manning third base for the Yankees.”
It is a no-win spot. If the player scores it was great hustle by the player or a great slide. If the player is out it is the #3B coaches fault.
I’ve never said to myself during a game – ‘great job by that 3B coach’.
“Why cant Meachum get any love here?”
It’s not really his fault. Following Larry Bowa, arguably the best 3rd base coach in the game, would make anyone look bad.
a top 10 list re: why they fired in the middle of the night – some light humor
http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/205718
willie in the FAN
“In preseason Rick Peterson had his pitchers start a drill never before heard in baseball, the drill consisted of his players wearing a blinfold at the mound and striding to throw a strikeâ€
Maybe Kei Igawa should do that during games. The sunglasses don’t work, without the sunglasses don’t work, why not blindfolded.
“What the Mets did was akin to Silvio taking Adriana for a ride into the woods.”
At least Adriana did not see it coming.
“Maybe Kei Igawa should do that during games. The sunglasses don’t work, without the sunglasses don’t work, why not blindfolded.”
Hey, at this point he should try anything
“logistics”?
Barf
“In preseason Rick Peterson had his pitchers start a drill never before heard in baseball, the drill consisted of his players wearing a blinfold at the mound and striding to throw a strikeâ€
So he’s a big Star Wars fan? Feel the force Johan.
You can hear why Peterson hasn’t had better rapport w/ the pitchers
Mad Dog should just shut up and let Heyman talk – at least Heyman doesn’t say things he knows are total bs to rile people up.
(and yes, I know that is Doggy’s job)
dog going nuts over how few Wins Perez got in Pitts—no clue what a bad stat the W is.
pathetic
From my friend the Mets fan:
“Randolph didn’t know he was fired until he came back to the team hotel after the win. Minaya was waiting for him to deliver the bad news at a place there was no reporters, no Mets fans, no Jeff Wilpon.”
Random baseball fact of the day: Major league record for strikeouts in a season held by Nolan Ryan 383 in 1973 for the California Angels.
Heyman-Sabathia or Bedard might be possibilities for the Yanks
The Cubs might make a play for C.C..or maybe even Tampa
**I thought the Griffey to Tampa stuff was false?
Bedard will never be able to take pitching in New York
and that hip problem….
Nothing shocking from the captain?? What a surprise.
Come on you guys…he never says anything. He wins the prize for THE most boring, inane interview EVER!
Why do you think reporters would rather talk to Damon, Giambi or Mussina??
Rebecca,
To be a fly on that wall.
W: Hey, O. Good game, huh?
O: Huh? Oh yeah. Good game, Willie.
W: What’s up? You look a little distracted.
O: Huh? Oh yeah. Hey Willie, listen…
Comments from Hal:
http://www.nj.com/mets/index.s.....by_ra.html
Anybody got a link to the Heyman story?
mel: Apparently Omar didn’t even go to the game! Just waited in the hotel!
It is a little unfair to put Hank on the spot like that. Doing so he undermines his GM and HIS Manager!
So … what if the Mets lose tonight? With Santana pitching, no less?
What do we take from that?
Do you think Omar said -
“It isn’t you Willie, It M! E! T! S! METS METS METS”?
Anybody who wants Bedard, look at what Bavasi said about Bedard’s unwillingness to go past 100 pitches…
“You have to ask him and I know that’s no fun. And he’s going to have a stupid answer for you can count on it. He’s going to have some dumb-ass answer.”
“He’s either gassed because he’s laboring. He’s protecting himself because he knows even he sticks around and is mediocre he gets another 2 million bucks lopped onto his salary.”
“Why doesn’t he go longer? It’s a real pointed question. But you need to ask him. And good luck with that.”
http://blogs.thenewstribune.co.....ding_bavas
“So … what if the Mets lose tonight? With Santana pitching, no less?
What do we take from that?”
Extremely entertaining talk radio tomorrow
Russell: LMAO!
Good job by Hal, Hank please no comment on the Willie situation, learn a thing or two before it opens.
Rebecca,
Is it SOP for GM’s to travel with the team? Or was he there to scout? I can’t imagine that a GM would be on every road trip
Wow – the fired GM was bitter at Bedard? Shocker –
This is from a profile of Bedard in the Seattle paper –
“”The Mariners just got one of the most dominant pitchers in baseball,” said Hall of Famer Jim Palmer, an Orioles broadcaster. “We’re talking about a guy who can be as good as Johan Santana.”
And just as quickly, in any conversation about Bedard, comes the ancillary warning: Don’t expect a warm and fuzzy fellow”
Personally I’ll take the word of a HOF pitcher over a failed GM. I saw a lot of Bedard as an Oriole and he is an excellent pitcher with AL East experience and is a lefty.
Tony Bernazard is a clown end of story… I hate guys like him.
Love the Sopranos analogy Pete! So true. The way they fired Willie was the ultimate in douchebaggery (can I say that on here? Guess I’ll find out). Also, Minaya should have been the one to go first. It’s not Willie’s fault that management apparently put way too much stock in Reyes being much better than he actually is, not his fault that Minaya counted on both El Duque and Pedro to be regular contributors, not his fault that racists like LoDuca and Wagner were signed to muck up the clubhouse, and so on. Willie is as much a victim of Minaya’s ineptness here as Met fans are.
anyway, I guess this means he won’t be on the NL All-Star coaching staff anymore. They best replace him with Torre, it is such a joke that he wasn’t named to the staff in the first place.
I want no part of Bedard at all
Take whatever Jon Heyman says with a grain of salt.
He can be a good reporter or inside guy, but he often talks out of his arse and regurgitates a lot of the same things we hear from everyone else.
Heyman was the guy who said Santana would and should end up with the Yanks.
He said Joba should stay in the bullpen for good and starting him didn’t make much sense.
He also agreed with Francessa that Bronson Arroyo would be a good pickup for the Yanks.
Heyman is useful at times, but he talks out of his arse a lot.
It seems like Seattle really hates Bedard and they are way out of first place. Even though he seems like a selfish guy he can pitch and last year was proof that he can dominate the AL East maybe if he came to a contender he would actually give a crap.
here’s the thing about bedard, the mariners gave up a lot to get him. a lot. they’re going to want some serious prospects in return. the only way guys like melancon or phil go out the door is for CC. Or Albert Pujols.
In other news, is it at all possible to trade for Adrian Gonzalez from SD. He rakes at first base and is pretty decent with the glove. IPK would be a really good trading chip.
No, definitely not SOP. It was made a point that Minaya was traveling out west.
GF –
I agree w/ you about Heyman’s opinions which I can take or leave. He seems to do a good job of reporting though – on Friday he said that Willy was going to get capped.
RIP Willy.
TKinDC -
I liked that one!
(It’s M!E!T!S! comment)
kd: doubt it. We need pitchingg right now.
“Joe DiMaggio, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy KingDome come.
Thy Willie be done,
in Shea earth as it is in the Bronx.
Give us this day our baseball game
And forgive us our really way to expensive tickets,
As we forgive those scalpers who drive up the demand.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from Kei Igawa.
Please, for the love of all that’s holy, no Kei Igawa…”
Rebecca, you win my vote for the best post of the year!!! lol
Drive, glad someone likes it!
the only way guys like melancon or phil go out the door is for CC. Or Albert Pujols.
Not even.
In other news, is it at all possible to trade for Adrian Gonzalez from SD. He rakes at first base and is pretty decent with the glove. IPK would be a really good trading chip.
Why would San Diego give up one of the best overall 1B in the league.
@PeteAbe – love the Soprano’s reference.
My roommate is a die hard mets fan and said that he was going to have a tough time defending how the front office handled Willie’s firing. The rational thing would have been for Omar to come out and say “Willie is our manager for the rest of the season” and stuck with him. With the players they currently have, I don’t see them competing for a playoff spot this year, so why make the move right now? The only reason I can come up with is that Omar is trying to shift blame onto someone else.
Everyone knows that when a guy becomes a cancer in the clubhouse management will try to get rid of him for any fair package. I think he can be had for less of a haul than C.C. would take Shapiro is going to demand a farm debilitating package for a rental player. Perhaps the real issue with Bedard is that he never played for a team that had a chance to make it to the post-season. I think playing on a losing team does something to a pitcher especially, maybe what he really needs is a change of scenery. Last year he had 221 K’s in 182 IP that is a serious front end pitcher regardless of his slow start this year.
Time to hear Kay rant about this
hmmm my post doesn’t appear to have shown up – in short, love the Sopranos analogy, the Mets are lame for firing Willie in the middle of the night like fugitives, and this was sadly a case of Willie paying for Minaya’s mistakes. Omar’s the one who put way too much stock in Reyes, and Reyes is the one who sucks. Not Willie. Omar’s the one who gave him a crap bullpen, he’s the one who traded Bannister for, who, Burgois? He’s the one that counted on Pedro and Duque to be consistent producers at their advanced ages, he’s the one who mucked up the clubhouse atmosphere by signing racist malcontents like LoDuca and Wagner. And the players are the ones who can’t beat the Phillies, not Willie.
Immediately when I heard this news I thought, ohh, he should come back as the 3b coach in Meachem’s place, but some of the posts above are correct in pointing out there is some revisionist history going on with that, he was not a great 3b coach either but I guess I was just going on wanting him to come back home to his Yankees who treat him with the respect he deserves. Either way though, Meachem is absolutely awful and should be replaced. Is he really the only coach Joe G handpicked though? What about Thomson?
Ok so I’ve read this all morning with no evidence to back it up. Can somebody please explain their reasoning for calling Bobby Meacham “absolutely awful”? Because I can’t remember any instances this season of thinking he made a terrible call.
oh and I guess this also means Willie is off the ASG coaching staff. Torre better be named in his place! I guess that is the one positive of this because I found the idea of him not being there fairly upsetting. And a really dumb move on Hurdle’s part.
Torre ? how about a manager that deserves it this year, like the Marlins Gonzalez
BBB -
If I’m not mistaken, I think Joe Torre was kind of relieved he wasn’t named to the coaching staff. He felt his presence would be a distraction. I think he’s got a point (first time Torre returns to Stadium, etc.). I don’t know if anyone knows if perhaps he was approached and actually turned it down, either.
Eric VA – I can’t think of the details of any specific instances right now although I believe there was one where he sent a runner on Nick Markakis’ arm which never should have happened, he should know the guy has a cannon and RF in B’more is not spacious.
But when you compare his performance to Larry Bowa’s, that is all the evidence you need that he’s awful. In the years Larry Bowa was with Yanks, I can only remember one baserunner being thrown out at home. ONE. And it was Melky, so it was probably his fault anyway (sliding headfirst?) rather than Bowa’s.
Bowa is the man and the Yankees need to throw all the money in the world at him this offseason to return. In the meantime I bet they can find someone better than Bobby.
BBB-
Torre was asked he declined.
Erik Bedard had a start against the Red Sox and went 7 strong striking out eight. IMO thats the only stat that matters if he can beat the Sux then he is worth more than his share of prospects.
Finally the name I have been waiting to hear about in trade talks has arrived: Roy Oswalt.
Buster Olney discussed him in his chat today and while it is probably completely unrealistic, that would be a MUCH better trade for the Yankees than Sabathia when one considers returned talent, cost, and his current contract.
Just incase this wasn’t mentioned before/already – Torre was not fired. He was not re-hired. He was not given a new contract. They parted ways.
How over – rated is the Yankees minor league pitching above the Single A level?? The answer lies in the fact that Kei Igawa is the best Scranton has to offer and Chase Wright is the best Trenton has to offer. That’s why Dan Giese and his 2 pitches will get the first shot. What’s Aaron Small up to these days??
“Torre better be named in his place! I guess that is the one positive of this because I found the idea of him not being there fairly upsetting. And a really dumb move on Hurdle’s part.”
Torre already said pubically he preferred to not be at the ASG, and would decline an offer from Hurdle to be there if asked.
FTH -
To further clarify, he was offered a new contract which he turned down (Torre, that is).
Kay talking about what went in the room:
-Omar to Willie: “We are gonna get rid of your first base coach and your pitching coach”
-Willie: “Ok, I understand. What about me?”
-Omar: “Well, your fired too.”
What??
“Buster Olney discussed him in his chat today and while it is probably completely unrealistic, that would be a MUCH better trade for the Yankees than Sabathia when one considers returned talent, cost, and his current contract.”
except he’s simply not near as good as Sabathia is right now.
**your=you’re
SA -
Was Kay just trying to figure out how it went down, or is that what actually was said?
Rebecca, i totally love the prayer!!!!! Very very good!
I love that the Muts are being dragged through the mud. With all the attention focused on them the Yanks can just go out and play baseball and WIN WIN WIN!!!
BBB-
That argument makes no sense. You (or anybody for that matter) are not going to remember every time somebody gets thrown out at home for the last three years. I guarantee you this, more than one player got thrown out at the plate while Bowa was here. (Plus I don’t see how Melky sliding head first makes it his fault…)
Point being, you don’t really have anything except that Meacham took a chance once this year and it didn’t work out. That isn’t grounds for calling somebody awful.
I thought I’ve been reading that Oswalt has a no-trade and specifically NY is not something he wants?
The is no sane reason why Kei Igawa should ever don a Yankee uniform ever again.
I am enjoying the Michael Kay show right now lol
TurnTwo,
He plays for Houston…
Sabathia is better right now…sure. Over their careers, Oswalt has put up solid numbers. Likewise, and perhaps most importantly, he does not become an FA after this season which means the Yankees don’t have to worry about dumping a ton of money into a contract to keep him. Furthermore, I cannot see the asking price being as high as it would be for Sabathia.
I don’t go out and get Oswalt right now with the hopes of winning the WS. I go out and get him because he is a proven, top of the rotation starter who isn’t on the verge of getting a $20 million/year contract.
I am sure Yanks would love to give Willie an opportunity. However, he may have to mend some fences as he made some comments bordering on racism when he left for Mets and Cash did not like that at all.
“In the years Larry Bowa was with Yanks, I can only remember one baserunner being thrown out at home. ONE.”
Ah, so we’ll just trust your perfect memory of 324 games over the past two years. Awesome.
thus, he is cheaper, effective, and guaranteed to be around for more than 3 mos.
Doreen-He said that was what he found out how it actually went down in the hotel room last night. He said Omar couldn’t even look at Willie or something..
“The is no sane reason why Kei Igawa should ever don a Yankee uniform ever again.”
I can only think of 50 million sane reasons. But even those may not be good enough.
Doreen – I didn’t know that, thanks. Aww, I don’t think it would be a distraction at all, I’d personally love to see him return. Give the fans a chance to show their appreciation for all he did for us in the past, because I think sometimes over the past few years that appreciation got lost in the sauce among current issues with bullpen management, etc. He was a great manager for this team for a lot of years and I’d love to see him get some love at the Stadium for that but I guess I can understand why he feels it may be distracting.
Brandon- Gonzalez certainly deserves it a lot more than Bud Black (think that’s the other coach) also and Sweet Lou really deserves to go too. I wonder how they make the decisions? I always thought it would be based on who had experience with the park the game’s played at (i.e. that he picked Bud Black b/c of the history with the Angels…ugh bad memories lol) rather than who has done the best job managing that year, but who knows?
” he is a proven, top of the rotation starter who isn’t on the verge of getting a $20 million/year contract.”
and did you watch him the other day? doesnt matter if he’s on the Astros or not, right now, he’s not nearly as good as he himself was 2 years ago, let alone comparing him to someone like Sabathia.
id rather pay the money and get Sabathia.
Here’s something nobody has mentioned yet…
Why in the world would Willie want to come back to the Yankees? He was the manager for the Mets…give it another year and he’ll be in line to manage another team. Why take a step back?
“Just incase this wasn’t mentioned before/already – Torre was not fired. He was not re-hired. He was not given a new contract. They parted ways.”
That is not entirely correct.
He was offered a new contract. Torre did not like the terms and decided to part ways.
You are absolutely rihgt he was not fired.
Kay talking about what went in the room:
-Omar to Willie: “We are gonna get rid of your first base coach and your pitching coachâ€
-Willie: “Ok, I understand. What about me?â€
-Omar: “Well, your fired too.â€
What??
If that’s how it went down I give props to Willie for not making a scene, god knows that’s an ass kicking waiting to happen if it were me.
“How over – rated is the Yankees minor league pitching above the Single A level?? The answer lies in the fact that Kei Igawa is the best Scranton has to offer and Chase Wright is the best Trenton has to offer. That’s why Dan Giese and his 2 pitches will get the first shot.”
Starting pitchers at that the upper levels are overhyped (I am assuming you are not counting Hughes in this group). There are no top flight guys, but there are some who offer depth and can fill in as a low end of the rotation guy. I think Horne has a shot to be a guy who can stick in a rotation long term as a #4 type.
The relief prospects are legit though and if Betances and Brackman are healthy, their upsides are way up there.
Don’t take a one start by Eric Bedard against the Red Sox and decide, “he’s the guy”.
Eric Bedard is one BIG problem. He has a chronic hip problem, has been injured every year of his career, and is one of the most disliked guys in the game by other players.
You take all of that and put him in NY and you have a guy who makes Randy Johnson look like a choirboy.
Randy Johnson had a HOF career before he pitched in NY. How did that work out? Even when he was healthy, he was so miserable he couldn’t pitch in NY. Take that attitude, with less stuff and pedigree, and you have Eric Bedard.
If the Mariners were to trade Bedard, they will want the moon in return. They drained their farm system to get him and its been an abysmal failure. They aren’t giving him away. That only doubles their failure with him.
To acquire a player, its more than just how he pitches against the Red Sox. In the grand scheme of things, that’s the last thing you look for in a pitcher.
A lot of it is value, how he will pitch in NY, fit into the team, etc.
On that front, Bedard fails miserably.
The better Dan Giese pitches, the better the options the Yankees will have in a month. I’m rooting for Giese to do well because it will enable Cash to get the right guy and not overpay to do it.
If Giese bombs, the price goes up. Hopefully, he treads water and that’s good enough for Cash to be able to get a guy next month.
something just happend on the blog pete put on the line and a few secends later it dissaperd!
“Likewise, and perhaps most importantly, he does not become an FA after this season which means the Yankees don’t have to worry about dumping a ton of money into a contract to keep him. Furthermore, I cannot see the asking price being as high as it would be for Sabathia.”
How can you not see that? Two months of one guy versus what, two-three years of another? Oswalt’s having a bad season so far, but he’s still a front of the rotation guy. And you’d not be on the hook for his decline years.
Given the contract and such, Oswalt would certainly command just as much in trade as Sabathia. And more teams would be in play because they woulnd’t have to pay him money to keep him.
It isn’t just the money Turn Two, its the prospects. Sabathia will command a better package and nearly $9 million more per year.
Not necessary.
willie come back and coach third
Oswalt hates NY he drives a tractor on his farm obviously he wouldnt waive his NT to come here.
S.A. -
Wow. It just keeps getting worse, doesn’t it?
I wonder if Willie will have a press conference or just leave it alone?
Roy Oswalt has a no trade clause that has a “no NY clause” put in by Oswalt himself.
He wants no part of the NY.
It also makes no sense for the Astros to trade him. They can’t dismantle their franchise with over 25,000 season ticket holders.
Its still a business and the Astros aren’t about to trade one of their most popular players when they don’t have enough pitching in the farm system to offset the loss.
Kay talking about what went in the room:
-Omar to Willie: “We are gonna get rid of your first base coach and your pitching coachâ€
-Willie: “Ok, I understand. What about me?â€
-Omar: “Well, your fired too.â€
If that’s seriously how it went down, there’s a five letter word, begins with ‘d’ and rhymes whooosh, to describe Minaya.
whozat,
I take it you agree.
I don’t think that from a prospect perspective, Oswalt would demand QUITE as much, but you’re right, he would command a good return.
“you don’t really have anything except that Meacham took a chance once this year and it didn’t work out”
OK, except it was way more than once. You asked for specific examples and I gave the first semi-specific one I could remember clearly…and actually my memory is pretty bad, so no one should go by it, but there have been many times he’s sent runners on some of the best OF arms in baseball, I believe there were a few similar occurrences vs Toronto too.
And yeah, Bowa probably made more than one decision that resulted in a runner being thrown out at the plate, but we all saw him enough to see not only what a tremendous 3b coach he was but an excellent mentor for the young players. Just as, IMHO, we’ve all seen enough of Meachem to be quite sure that as a coach he is not qualified to shine Bowa’s shoes.
SJ,
Wouldn’t they obviously be after pitching prospects in return? They would restock that system.
I had a feeling he had a No Trade Clause. Suprised Buster didn’t mention that in his chat today.
C.C. is perfect but the farm would be empty if we traded for him. He is big, throws alot of innings is very durable, and he is a dominant starter. He also IMO seems like he is tough enough to survive here in NY as opposed to Bedard/Oswalt.
espn posted comments from Willie if you can listen to the audio at work
#1 reason why the Yankees won’t trade for Bedard, Sabathia or Oswalt:
Any trade discussion starts with Hughes. If they wouldn’t trade him for Santana, why trade him now for anybody else.
pete- what happend to the lineup post that you posted?
If Willie was white he would still have a job. Mr. Wilpon, youll be hearing from my office.
“To acquire a player, its more than just how he pitches against the Red Sox.”
Especially true in Bedard’s case:
5-4 with a 4.25 ERA against Boston for his career
2-3 with a 6.99 ERA in six Fenway starts.
“Don’t take a one start by Eric Bedard against the Red Sox and decide, “he’s the guyâ€.”
Ah. Yet, with 100 more lbs and twice as many innings logged, this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seOw0Z5Oo5w
IS the guy?
That’s what Kay said on how it went down. I have no clue how he found out though…so I guess take it with a grain of salt.
He was also saying that Willie going to the West Coast, Willie felt confident that his job was no longer in jeopardy.
He even got off the bus in front of Shea and asked Omar if everything was ok (2 times he did this) and Omar was like he’s all good…and off to California they go.
Seriously, if true..I have no words
I found this quite interesting:
From ESPN.com:
Mets owner Fred Wilpon told 1050 ESPN New York’s Andrew Marchand that the decision to fire Willie Randolph and his coaches and the timing of the move were solely Minaya’s.
“Omar is in charge,” Wilpon told 1050 ESPN New York Tuesday morning. “It was his decision. He made that decision a short time ago, obviously, and decided what to do. You have to ask Omar about that.”
Wilpon declined to answer any further questions.
Wilpon’s son, team chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon, declined comment through a spokesman, 1050 ESPN New York reported.
Oh and also, my $0.02 with Bedard is that I don’t put much stock in the “he’s a bad teammate” or “he’s a misanthrope” or “he wont go over 100 pitches” stuff because that is mostly info. that came from Angelos or Bavasi, both of whom are inept baseball men and have a reason to be bitter towards the Canuck. I want to hear a Roberts or a Markakis call him a bad teammate, then I’ll believe it.
What I do put stock in is the bad hip, and that right there is enough to make me not want to see him on the Yankees. Plus I believe he’s said himself he doesn’t like dealing with the media, which makes him a bad fit in NY.
What I may prefer to see is a 3 team trade sending Bedard to Cincy and Harang to NY and prospects from both teams to SEA, but that’s probably getting a little fantasy baseball trade unrealistic though. I would love, love, love for the Yankees to somehow acquire Harang though.
Meacham has sent a number of runners which lead to easy outs. Remember him sending Giambi then having him reverse back to third? Giambi would have had a better chance to make it Home than stopping and going back to Third base. All this after he was windmilling his arms from when Giambi was on second.
There were at least 4, maybe 5 times this season where Meacham has made the wrong call going for home by a wide margin. That doesn’t even begin to count the closer plays in critical times where it killed rallies.
CC may not cost them Hughes.
The Santana trade was different. CC is going to be gone as a FA after the season. Shapiro doesn’t have great leverage to ask for the moon for him. Teams will simply say “no” and move on.
Its a no lose proposition for Cashman. If Shapiro asks for too much, Cashman passes on it.
We really have no idea what CC would cost for several reasons:
1. He may not even be traded if Cleveland is still in the race.
2. If he is on the market, his trade value is determined by what other teams offer for him. Not just what the Yankees offer.
3. Shapiro has to make a simple decision. Are the offers on the table for him greater than the draft picks he gets in return? If they are, and the Indians decide to trade him, he’s gone.
The Yankees have the parts without Hughes in a deal to trade for CC if Shapiro wants to do it.
Whether he wants to do it or not is the big question and that’s unknown right now.
BBB- I totally agree I would kill for Harang he is great seriously underrated he is a top-10 pitcher in the NL but he plays on a joke of a ball-club.
Spitzer now compare his success rate to the league’s 3B, and I know your not telling me Willie is a better choice. You apparently forgot what type of 3B coach Willie was and as much as we love him we are not doing that to him.
Those who want the Yanks to trade for Sabathia, Oswalt, or Bedard are going to be very disappointed.
Cashman is not going to pull the trigger on any of those guys, contrary to what Mike Francessa thinks.
Overall, I think Joel Sherman is a dope, but he’s absolutely right about Cashman in a piece this morning.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06.....115818.htm
Times have changed. It’s just that not every Yankee fan or member of the NY media has paid enough attention to recent history to figure that out yet.
Pretty interesting trade proposal, BBB. Don’t think it works though as all the Reds top prospects are now with the big club and I doubt they’d feel too compelled to move them if all they were getting is a swap of Harang for Bedard.
SJ –
I’m not sure where you got your info about Bedard – but since he is closely followed down here in the DC Metro area it was pretty clear that the O’s would have loved to sign Bedard to a long extension, but Bedard was tired of pitching for a team with no bullpen, no offense and no prospect of getting better.
Earlier I posted a quote from Jim Palmer praising Bedard’s stuff and his make-up.
Now, if his hip is a big problem then I would leave him alone. But he has started around 25-30 games the last 4 years so it doesn’t seem like it has been a major issue.
It isn’t one game against Boston, it is a well above average track record in the AL East on a pathetic team.
CC Sabathia is a better pitcher than Eric Bedard. There isn’t a single person in baseball who would take Bedard over Sabathia, regardless of how much CC weighs.
Ironically, Sabathia is also healthier than Bedard, despite his weight.
Bedard has spent more of his career on the DL than Sabathia.
Its not a bodybuilding contest. Its about who is the better pitcher and its Sabathia in a landslide.
“The Yankees have the parts without Hughes in a deal to trade for CC if Shapiro wants to do it.”
I think this is true, but I believe the package would have to include Jackson for it to go anywhere.
Doreen -
Yes. Thank you for the contract reminder, it was not forgotten, but thanks all the same.
Anybody else think theres a chance we can get Riciardi to trade Burnett within the division?
Brandon – what’s with your man-love of Meacham? He plain stinks at Third, he also stunk as a player.
Willie would be an upgrade, but that isn’t saying much.
I would rather see Bowa there, as that was the best you could get. Meacham is nearly useless there except for passing on signs.
Spitzer:
As the NY Governor who resigned in shame, don’t you have more important things on your mind these days instead of micromanaging someone like a 3d base coach. Enough! Back to your father’s real estate business. Your perp walk is coming.
My info comes from players in the game. One who is still with the Orioles.
I’m also good friends with one of the broadcasters for the Mariners.
Without breaking confidences, he told me stuff about Bedard that blew me away.
Like I said, he makes Randy Johnson look like the jolly old man.
He’s a nightmare in a clubhouse. He’s also not healthy.
I’d pass on Bedard.
Guiseppe,
At this time, I agree with you. If things don’t change, I see the Yankees doing something smaller rather than larger on the pitching front.
T know this much. The Yankees LOVE CC Sabathia. They really do. Up and down the organization, they think the guy is a stud on and off the field.
Enough to overpay for him? No. But, they will monitor what happens with him right up to the deadline, IMO.
Even if they get a guy (a Paul Byrd type) prior to the deadline.
That’s how much they like him.
“It isn’t one game against Boston, it is a well above average track record in the AL East on a pathetic team.”
He AL East track record, aside from some very strong numbers against Tampa Bay wasn’t real great. 4.25 ERA against Boston in 12 starts. 4.32 ERA vs. the Yanks over 12 start and a 5.00 ERA against the mighty Jays over 11 starts. Not awful, but not so strong you’d unload to get him on your team, especially with his injury history. Bedard is 30 when the 2009 season begins and he will still be looking for a 200 inning season.
“Anybody else think theres a chance we can get Riciardi to trade Burnett within the division?”
Yes, but he wouldn’t come cheaply. Yanks depth of pitching in the minors is exactly what Toronto lacks.
I’m sick of hearing “times have changed” I understand Cash wants to stick to the plan but if this team is close at the trading deadline they cant let Giese be the #5. If the Yanks are close`at the deadline and they dont make a move they are effectively saying that the playoffs dont matter and they think Moose, Pettitte, Joba, Rasner and Giese are formidable enough to ride to October.
I will never understand why people care about money. Its not coming out of our pockets and they aren’t going to lower the prices of food and tickets if we get Bedard for less than CC. We lose close to $80 million, including a Carl Pavano. So they spend 6 to 8 more for C.C. He’s younger and a lefty and proven reliable. He’s as close to consistent as you will find in MLB as far as SP goes.
FTH -
You’re welcome.
SJ44 -
What is it that makes Sabathia more attractive to the Yankees than Santana was? (Besides the obvious the Twins wanted too much for Santana). What do they love about him? I’m so skeptical about CC and I really have no reason for it.
From Seattle Times:
“He’s a guy that doesn’t want a lot of accolades, a guy that always gives credit to his teammates,” Mazzone said. “He reminds me of someone else I coached. Ever hear Greg Maddux talk about himself?
“I think Erik just wants to go out and do his job, and then leave him alone. I don’t see anything wrong with that. He’s his own man, and that’s what makes great pitchers.”
Palmer has a different comparison for Bedard’s pitch-well-and-recede style.
“Steve Carlton was that way, and he’s in the Hall of Fame with 329 wins,” Palmer pointed out.
At least see what you can get without giving up the Hughes and Ajax of the world. It is foolish to not even try especially when every guy in the Yanks minor league has a similar repertoire and they all will not become big league successes.
Why not give Giese a shot at the 5th slot? He destroyed AAA and has performed admirably as the long man. With any luck, he can pitch to a below 6 era as a 5th starter and hopefully have some decent offense behind him.
“Pretty interesting trade proposal, BBB. Don’t think it works though as all the Reds top prospects are now with the big club and I doubt they’d feel too compelled to move them if all they were getting is a swap of Harang for Bedard.”
Yeah, you’re probably right. Unfortunately, cause I really do love Harang. I think playing on a contender and getting run support would be such a huge shot in the arm for an already solid pitcher like him, too. He’d be hungry which is something Yanks have lacked in playoffs for the past few years. But yeah, I think Cincy is ready to contend soon and, as such, won’t get rid of the leader of their staff. It’s worth a try though because we may have a prospect that they just love, ala the Nats with Clippard…
JoeyA- C.C. will want 16-18 million a year.
“Anybody else think theres a chance we can get Riciardi to trade Burnett within the division?”
I’d also be interested in Burnett. I think Toronto really, really doesn’t want to help the Yankees though, even if they are out of it. They might do it anyway for the right price, but that price would probably be jacked up since it is within the division.
However I think Burnett would waive his NTC to come here if he has one. He has had some problems with Ricciardi over the years and I think he’d love nothing more than to stick it to him by pitching well for a division rival. If he did opt out of his contract after the season I could def. see him as a Yankee if the cost for CC is prohibitive.
TK,
Nobody will go on the record badmouthing players publicly. How many guys do you see get badmouthed publicly? It never happens unless you have major power in the game. Leo Mazzone, while a good pitching coach, doesn’t have the cache to badmouth anybody publicly.
Hyperbole is something all broadcasters use. How can he be “like Steve Carlton” when he has never even pitched 200 innings in a season?
Put it another way. You think the Orioles want Bedard back?
Andy McPhail raped the Mariners on that deal and that’s one of the reasons why the guy is back on the block.
Think about it, they traded some of their best minor league talent for a guy to go alongside King Felix.
Seattle is a franchise with a ton of money. They can afford to re-sign Bedard. Yet, they are looking to move him again.
He’s bad news and I would be shocked if the Yankees even thought about getting involved in that action.
Where’s the line-up. It’s raining, there is no one at the golf course, and I’m bored.
Sorry that I’m whining.
Doreen,
Circumstances changed. At the time of the Santana deal, the Yankees saw Hughes as a guy who would pitch 150-180 innings this year and win 12-13 games.
Instead, he got hurt and its another lost season for him.
Add to it the Wang injury and its a big problem for the Yankees.
It doesn’t just impact the Yankees for this year. It also impacts them next year.
The chances are slim both Mussina and Pettitte will be back. Hughes won’t be able to throw a lot of innings next year, and Chamberlain will only go to about 170-180 innings.
Who eats innings next year? Its a big question.
If its the off-season, it just costs money for CC. Much different than money and players for Santana.
Also, with all the money coming off the books after the season, they can fit CC’s contract in for a lot less than the 28 million (what a Santana contract would have cost the Yankees this year. Which includes the luxury tax hit they would have taken on the deal) Santana would have cost the Yankees this season.
SJ -
Understood about badmouthing – but Jim Palmer really doesn’t fall into the trap of happy-talk. He regularly kills O’s pitchers when the circumstances require it.
I respect his opinion – and nothing was keeping him from saying no comment to a writer from Seattle or declining the interview.
That said – if Bedard is a cancer in the clubhouse – you have to balance that against the players in the clubhouse who might deal with that. i have some confidence in those folks to make sure the team operates effectively.
Is everyone assuming CC would not take a (very lucrative) contract extension and forego free agency if Cleveland decides to trade him (and does so to a team he’d want to play for…)? Why wouldn’t it be a possibility that we made a trade and have it be dependent upon a contract extension?
SJ44 -
Thanks. So, quick change in plans for the Yankees, then.
Vice President of Common Sense – has someone been reading Bill Simmons?
It would be cool to get Harang for the next few years and then sign C.C. in the offseason. A rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Harang, Joba and the Franchise sounds pretty good to me. Harang could save the season IMO and C.C. will be more attractive when he only costs money.
Jack, you really think Billy coined that one, gimmie break.