End this ill-fated experiment and trade for Bronson Arroyo before it’s too late
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 19, 2008 
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Joba Chamberlain as a starter:
Games: 4
Innings: 18.1
Hits: 16
Earned runs: 5
Walks: 12
Strikeouts: 19
ERA: 2.45
Team record: 3-1
UPDATE, 4:37 p.m.: The walks are part of the maturation process and learning which hitters can essentialy get themselves out. Chamberlain will figure that out in time. He had good control in the minors (27 walks in 88.1 innings) in 2007.
The stat that matters most: He’s 22. He’s still learning. If you’re a Yankees fan, be thankful this switch was made when it was. Otherwise your rotation would be Andy and Moose and reach for the Grey Goose.
Two questions for the staff:
1. Who will Brian Cashman find to plug into the rotation? It’s not going to be C.C. Sabathia, but there is somebody out there. It’s probably not Sidney Ponson.
2. The Yankees now have to figure out when to move Mark Melancon up to Scranton and bring him closer to the majors.
Unrelated to Joba: The Yankees stole eight bases in nine attempts in this series. Joe Girardi and his staff (via the advance scouts) are very good at taking advantage of weaknesses. Their preparation is exact. The Yankees are far less inclined to wait around for something to happen than they used to be.
LOL.
anyone still want him in the pen?
Arroyo is the gran puba of all FA
this is just some mike and dog crap! just like they didnt want joba in the bullpen.
Joba flat out balled it out today. I wish Girardi would’ve left him in to get the win and throw 4-6 more pitches but I’m glad it all worked out anyway. He’ll get his first W as a starter eventually.
I agree get rid of this bum and bring the hippie dude from Cinncy here!!
With all the noise made by Francesa and others about Joba starting, here’s something to chew on which is even more striking than his numbers:
If Joba was still in the bullpen, Darrel Rasner, Dan Giese, and Sidney Ponson would make up 3/5th of the New York Yankees starting rotation.
So far so good. Too many walks still. Eventually he’ll learn to stop trying to strike everyone out, and use his other pitches to be more efficient. 100 pitches through 5.2 is too many.
sorry they didnt want joba as a starter
But Mike Francesa loves Arroyo..
Walks are high, but this young man has the potential to be a ferocious top of the rotation starter. I love the fact that the Yankees were so careful with his inning limits and pitch counts.
Arroyo has heart. Just like Dustin Pedroia. Get him here, now.
Pete, you forgot the statistic category for “Ridiculous Fist pumps” as a starter
Who wanted the Yanks to trade for Arroyo and keep Joba in the pen? Big Pompous? They’re scared of the unknown.
FOr the record, before anyone jumps all over me. I am kidding.
Question about the high amount of walks today, was it a product of missing the zone or the ump not knowing the zone.
19 K’s huh? and 9 of them were from today. Not too shabby.
Now we’ve just got to make sure the efficiency with his pitches gets there.
Took me a while to get that, but Portugal is distracting me.
SCORE ALREADY! YOU CANNOT LOSE TO GERMANY! I WILL CRY!
Not Arroyo but Paul Byrd. Don’t you guys know anything?
That WHIP is actually pretty piss poor at 1.6+, but he has shown the ability to pitch out of trouble. I imagine he’ll improve on the WHIP with time.
portugal broke my heart.
Obviously Ponson needs to take Joba’s turn in the rotation. Then after Sidney self destructs after the first batter Joba can take over, pick the runner off and set down the next 26 in a row.
If Cashman can get Arroyo for a bucket of balls, sure bring him here for the fifth spot and keep Joba as the No 3.
I’m sure Francessa still wants him in the pen. Remember when he was a reliever? He was Mariano’s mystical heir-apparent to the throne that is the role of Yankee closer. Why, oh why, would the Yankees fight destiny like this? Clearly, the man’s fate was to be a closer. He was chosen by God to be the next Mariano Rivera. The Yankees have surely sold their soul to the devil and will be smote heavily for their transgression.
Don’t go to the stadium for a while. Locust bites are a b*tch.
120 pitches for Joba’s next start.
If you were to just look at any pitchers line today like the one joba put up you’d just think he was dominant.
9k’s in 5 2/3, 4H and 1 run allowed 3 walks isn’t great but tolerable when you strike out 9.
The remarkable thing is that Joba can still be better – considerably better. He’s still improving as a starter and is only going to get better.
This is why so many people were adamant about Joba needing to be in the starting rotation. He offers this team the kind of dominant starter they haven’t had in years.
He’s still just scratching the surface.
He should win rookie of the year in the AL this year.
he’s horrible!!! drop him!!! pay him to leave!!!! kei igawa is our savior!!!
At this pace Joba will be able to throw 250 pitches a game in a month!
Too bad Joe Girardi’s no Dusty Baker
Volquez tomorrow
Joba has been doing great! now we just need him to go deep in games, especially now that he is off his pitch count. he has to go more than 5 and 2/3 especially since Wang is out!
His ERA is like 6 times what it was as a reliever, it’s clear this experiment is a failure.
sorry rebecca.
that loss ruined my pool
No ones questioning the Joba move anymore Pete. We need Arroyo to fill in for the lack of Wang and the fact we need another starter. No need to keep saying ” I told ya so”
Is Joba’s pitch count 15 or so over the 105 he was slotted to pitch today or the 100 he actually pitched?
EXCELLENT STATS. Just gotta work on those walks…how many of those walks turned in to earned runs?
“portugal broke my heart.”
Couldn’t have possibly been worse than Euro ’04.
“Is Joba’s pitch count 15 or so over the 105 he was slotted to pitch today or the 100 he actually pitched?”
There’s no hard ‘pitch count’ anymore, but don’t expect him to throw 120.
100-105 is probably the limit we’ll see from now on, like most pitchers.
rebecca, my parents are portuguese so u should have seen how we felt.
I concur Joba has the potential to be a top top starter, they do not grow on trees….
if melancon or cox or robertson are the real deal it will really help the pen..
they still need another starter and we will see where that comes from.. If Wang was not hurt this team is SCARY……
Fredo: In 2004, England actually made the tournament, so I was crushed when England lost.
@#$@##$@-es couldn’t even make the tournament this year!
So I was pulling for Portugal because a) Cristiano Ronaldo, b) Cristiano Ronaldo, and c) Lisbon is an utterly amazing city where you can buy water for ten cents a bottle.
nick,
thanks for the link. we may very well get a new building after all. ever go to the games?
Agreed V, the counts are done. From today forward, he’s a starter w/o limitation. They’ll be careful with him, but the chains are off.
kd, I’ve been a season ticket holder for the football games for years. I went to the Tennessee game in Knoxville 2 years ago. Too bad we were so awful in it, but the rematch in Berkeley was incredible, as was the Oregon game.
Not sure how we’ll be this year, but at the least I see us taking back the Axe.
oh great Ahmad Bradshaw is in jail
Francesa – “they got a good start out of Joba struck out 9 but they’ve gotta go out and get another starter…”
What a joke. He throws an outstanding start and he completely downplays it because it makes him look silly for being so vociferous about moving Joba to the rotation being the worst thing they could possible do.
Many in the NY media – from Francesa to Bob Klapisch are going to have to come up with even more creative ways to divert attention from how ridiculous they’ve been on what Joba’s role should be.
would any1 be upset with signing freddy garcia? i really wouldn’t be upset…but i’d rather cashman made a big splash in the trade market
After being advised by Plumpie Francesca ,chief of scouting in all of the Yankees system that Bronson Arroyo is the man, Brian Cashman is in deep thought and cannot be reached.
CB: I’m normally a fan of Klapisch, but he was flat out wrong with Joba.
E I would. He throws at 85 mph and can’t top over 90 and would need 2 months before being ML ready.
Holland will win EURO 2008
Okay so Joba is in the rotation and has adjusted better than expected (better than i thought anyway), andy looks like he’s getting on a roll, moose has been incredible this whole season – which brings me to our newest addition: sidney ponson?! when i first saw that i thought it was a joke, only to find out it was true. my question in all this? WHERE THE HELL IS BOOMER?!?! we’re getting old yankee pitchers back right? why not one that i actually enjoy watching? if all its costs them is money then they should do it, im sure all those $9 beers at the stadium will more than cover the costs.. hell, just give wells the beer instead! if we’re gonna be desperate lets do it right.
how about dan mccutchen…how major league ready is he? his last outing in swb was great
“The Yankees are far less inclined to wait around for something to happen than they used to be.”
but…wait…Joe Morgan always tells me the Yankees are old and lack the speed of a truly dynamic offense like those potent Angels!
No matter how good Joba pitched they still need a starter.Just not at the right moment.We can wait.
But the idea of Giese,Rasner,Ponson and Igawa for the rest of this year is just crazy and Mike is right about that.This ain’t the minors we don’t have time to let Joba,Kennedy,Ponson and Hughes work themselves.
“how about dan mccutchen…how major league ready is he?”
Not.
Bronson Arroyo is a better pitcher than Livan Hernandez, that’s for sure.
The Euro finals? Right now I think Spain and Dutch are the two best teams, but they can’t meet in the finals.
Must have taken all sorts of preparation to know that the Padres are BY FAR the easiest team in major league baseball to run on. Honestly Pete, all teams prepare for their upcoming series. Teams like Seattle may not, but everyone else does. Where was the exact preparation you speak of as the Yankees were laboring thru the 1st 40% of the season???
Yanks are a good team with considerable talent and the Pads are a hoorendous team with minimal talent beyond Peavy and Gonzalez. Yanks beat up on a bad team. That’s the story of the week, rather than some notion of ridiculously good preparation.
Joba walked 15 batters in 40.33 innings at AA with overwhelmingly overpowering stuff. That is not good.
He could learn control. Or he could not.
I don’t think that it is certain. It is not easy to consistently throw a ball 60.5 feet in a circle the size of a pie plate at 95 mph. Lots of pitchers with great stuff never develop the control to be starters, no matter how many plus pitches they have.
If he doesn’t improve his command, he may still end up as a closer.
rebecca,
I agree on Klapisch. He’s often a good read. But this was just a case of complete group think on the part of many people in the media.
The idea that you would keep a guy with that kind of stuff in the set up man role is just hard to fathom. As a franchise you may get a guy like Joba in your system once a decade. You hope he stays healthy. But you don’t use him in the wrong role when you get him.
Remember all of that talk about how Joba was going to tire as a starter – how he’d only throw like 93 or so as a starter and wouldn’t be as effective because he couldn’t hold his velocity?
And now all of that is going to be forgotten by all of these guys who are paid to follow baseball.
They aren’t even going to discuss the issue – they aren’t even going to follow up on an issue to which they devoted hours and hours of talk time to and dozens and dozens of columns.
“But the idea of Giese,Rasner,Ponson and Igawa for the rest of this year is just crazy and Mike is right about that.This ain’t the minors we don’t have time to let Joba,Kennedy,Ponson and Hughes work themselves.”
So, go get Arroyo who can’t get outs in the NL Central??
And, if we don’t need one _right now_, why can’t we wait for Kennedy or Hughes? Why is it absurd to think Rasner/Ponson/Giese can tide us over until Kennedy and Horne have shown whether or not they’ve earned a shot? It just seems dumb to make a move when you’ve got guys with equal stuff — or better stuff — than anyone who you might acquire are in your own minor league system
“Holland will win EURO 2008″
Sloppy defense could sting them before this is over. I wouldn’t want to see Italy again if I were them.
Spain always finds a way to be eliminated sooner than they should be in the Euro and WC. Hard to imagine that changing here.
Pitchers people really really want Cashman to trade for.
A. Erick Threets
B. Bronson Arroyo
C. Livan Hernandez
World Series anyone?
fredo..why not?3-0…..
For the second time in a week, Pete’s zeal for Joba in the rotation has caused him to make a dishonest argument. Any honest argument weighing the merits of Joba’s best role cannot completely ignore the fact that the Yanks had to rely once again on Farnsworth in a close game. By all means go ahead and argue that the Yanks are bettter off this way, but please don’t ignore relevant facts simply because they cut against your argument.
“Joba walked 15 batters in 40.33 innings at AA with overwhelmingly overpowering stuff. That is not good.”
Actually, it’s really not bad. 3.35 BB/9? That’s solid. And when you have a 4:1 K:BB ratio…it really is just fine.
Joba doesn’t even really need to learn Control, just learn enough to get his breaking pitches in the zone occassionally.
A guy with his assortment of unhittable stuff can get away with a 3 BB/9 because his K/9 is always going to be around 9 or above, giving him a K:BB of 3:1 which is EXCELLENT.
Joba rules B)
CB: I had a class this spring with a very nice guy who was also a Red Sox fan. He kept telling me that there was NO WAY Joba should be a starter, etc, that he would get lit up.
My response? Sure, Joba will have a couple of bad games–everyone does–but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t start.
“Any honest argument weighing the merits of Joba’s best role cannot completely ignore the fact that the Yanks had to rely once again on Farnsworth in a close game.”
At least they were winning. If Kei Igawa or Jeff Karstens started this game, do you think they’d still have won it?
Jayson Stark –
• Lock those windows: You can probably forget that widespread assumption that any team willing to trade three high-ceiling young players for C.C. Sabathia would first ask for a 72-hour window to try to sign him. The Indians have been telling teams they’re not interested in complicating their lives by opening any negotiating windows. And if Sabathia attracts the number of bidders they expect him to attract, they can afford to take that hard line.
Benigno was vehemently defending Ponson on SNY. I cant wait til this fat drunk implodes so we can see someone deserving in pinstripes like Horne or Aceves.
Nick,
I’ve been going for years. I lived through the Homloe years, so any win is big for me. That Oregon game was almost s religious experience. We will be decent this year, the Axe is ours.
Gotta love Joba in the starting rotation. If Brackman is as good as people think, a rotation of Wang, CC (?), Joba, Phil, and Brackman sounds downright scary. Think Pettitte will pitch next year?
No negotiation window means No CC at all.
“Any honest argument weighing the merits of Joba’s best role cannot completely ignore the fact that the Yanks had to rely once again on Farnsworth in a close game.”
Do you not see the importance of 7 IP’s 1 run allowed?
fredo..why not?3-0…..
Score wasn’t a true reflection of the game. Italy will never give up 3 again in this tourney (please note, despite the nom de plume – I’m English/Irish not Italian). I like the Dutch team, but if they see Italy again, I’d lean to Italy.
Anybody who still thinks Joba as a starter is a mistake needs to be committed. Joba has been great, ok his control has been a little suspect but alot of power pitchers walk guys. His BB’s will go down as he matures he is not Daniel Cabrera or Carlos Zambrano he knows exactly where that pitch is going he just tries to over-do it mostly with his fastball or he breaks his slider too hard. The issue is not his control its his command he has filthy stuff so he gets wild occasionally that is his only flaw I have seen so far. Once Girardi lets Joba off his leash and cuts the crap with the pitch-count he will be more confident and once again 9 K’s in less than 6 is insanity.
“Joba doesn’t even really need to learn Control, just learn enough to get his breaking pitches in the zone occassionally.”
It’s not his breaking pitches. I saw him miss with his FB a lot, especially to lefties.
“Do you not see the importance of 7 IP’s 1 run allowed?”
5.2IP
Too bad Brackman will not throw until at least mid next season.
“Once Girardi lets Joba off his leash and cuts the crap with the pitch-count he will be more confident and once again 9 K’s in less than 6 is insanity.”
Um…he was off the leash. He’s not going to be allowed to go much over 100 pitches all year. Unless he’s having easy innings all game. And he wasn’t.
“Remember all of that talk about how Joba was going to tire as a starter – how he’d only throw like 93 or so as a starter and wouldn’t be as effective because he couldn’t hold his velocity?”
I’m not concerned about his velocity from beginning of game to the latter innings, but I am concerned about his velocity from the beginning of June to the middle to late part of September. That’s what’s going to tell the tale this year. When he’s at 140-150 innings. Best example I can think of is Verlander, who in 2006 went to hell in a handbasket after hitting 130.
i cannot for the life of me get into soccer (i think that’s what the discussion is with these european names getting tossed around). it bores me to no end. even when everyone was jumping on the bandwagon a few years ago and following the world cup, i tried. saw that headbut game and still thought it was a total snoozefest.
“Aceves.”
Wow. That’s jumping the gun. He’s not even thrown in AAA yet. He’s out-thinking batters that have no plan right now. Let’s see how he does against some guys who think along with him before we anoint him as “deserving of pinstripes”
One of the things about pitching…
It takes three pitches to strike someone out, at minimum. So when you’re a strike out pitcher, like joba is, your pitch count is going to get high pretty fast if you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing.
Whozat- He could have at least let him try and get Clark taking a win away from him because he might go over the PC is being ultra conservative.
I can still get people out in the AL. My curve ball is impetuous. My s seamer is impregnable, and I’m just ferocious. F all you haters.
‘Whozat- He could have at least let him try and get Clark taking a win away from him because he might go over the PC is being ultra conservative.”
His team won. That’s what matters.
I can still get people out in the AL.
You know you can’t
I’d lean to Holland…but he.I’m dutch
kd,
The Holmoe years were dark, dark times. I remember in 2001 the only game we won was at Rutgers, and it was after the Big Game because the original date had been cancelled due to 9/11. That season was the lowest of the low. I agree we’ll be at least decent this year, Tedford has the team stocked with talent.
Now that he’s officially on the market, what would it cost to get Erik Bedard from the Mariners? He’s damaged his reputation significantly by showing no interest in being a true No. 1 starter but its very clear he’s still a top end talent who can remain in the top 3 of your rotation for yeas to come. He’s a lefty and we all know about his experience and success in the AL East when he was with the O’s. I knew the price was way to high for him when the O’s were shopping him being an in-division rival and all but now that he’s on the Mariners there’s no reason why we couldn’t be brought in. Bedard, Pettitte, Joba, Mussina can get us through for the rest of the year and a future with Bedard, Wang and Joba at the top of our rotation would be bright. This could help us now and in the future. Thoughts? Price?
Whozat- IMO Ponson really doesnt deserve to be on any ball-club especially not the Yankees. To put that guy back in pinstripes after he had an 11 ERA in 06 is a disgrace. Especially his off-field stuff is really a bad thing to introduce to a team hitting its stride. I would live with Giese giving 5-6 mediocre innings at least he isnt a distraction.
“Joba walked 15 batters in 40.33 innings at AA with overwhelmingly overpowering stuff. That is not good.
He could learn control. Or he could not.”
Not only are you wrong – walking 15 hitters in 40 innings is not particularly bad, especially when you strike out 66 over those same 40 innings giving you over a 4:1 K:BB rate – but this is also a great example of trying use selective endpoints to skew statistics to make up an argument that isn’t there.
Look at his entire body of work in the minor – why just focus on AA in which he threw fewer than 50% of his innings? He walked 2.76/9 innings last year in the minors – that is absolutely outstanding control. He had a K:BB rate of 5 which is astonishing.
And those numbers don’t even include his Hawaiian winter ball performance = the threw 37 innings striking out 46 and walking 3. Pitchers who don’t have control still walk batters in winter ball.
So before coming up to the majors he threw 125 innings and walked 30 – that’s walking 2.1/9. That is fantastic control. That is his body of work.
The evidence from his minor league performance shows overwhelmingly that he has excellent control.
And last year when he came up his walk total was completely in line with his minor league performance – 2.5/9 in the majors.
His walks right now are just part of his transition back to starting.
“That’s what’s going to tell the tale this year. When he’s at 140-150 innings.”
Well, that’s when he’s scheduled to shut down anyway. So…
I don’t know how to feel about Ponson. The signing is so quite and he just seems so un-Yankee like. I’m still kind of in denial about his signing. Does anyone know how much they signed him for?
Good if the CC window is closed or was never open in the first place. If Carmona really is out then Cleveland is doing the right thing to hold on to CC. And I like that we don’t have to trade away half the farm to use him for 3 months. I agree he’s a good pitcher but don’t think it’s a clear cut choice especially as a long-term commitment.
This is a Brian Bruney interview from the Times in case it hasn’t been posted. Bruney has grown on me even though we haven’t seen him much this season but before his injury I thought he was very impressive. Must have been frustrating to lose all that weight and start pitching so well and then get injured.
Q: What’s been the most frustrating part of this injury for you?
A: Not being able to help the team and sitting around. A foot injury is very frustrating, because the rest of my body’s good; it’s just my foot. It’s tough watching the games and not being out there trying to help the team. Almost being selfish about it, I think I need the team more than they need me. This is the only thing I know how to do, and I have a foot injury. It’s like, “It’s just a foot, why can’t I pitch?†That’s frustrating, not being able to throw.
Q: How do you measure progress from a foot injury?
A: It’s just something where you’ve got to do all the rehab, and when you feel good, you’ve got to try it, because there’s really no way to tell. Try it and if it feels good, do it some more, and if it doesn’t, back off of it. I’m to the point where I’m trying it. It’s feeling O.K. Doesn’t feel great, doesn’t feel horrible. I’ll see the doctor today, and hopefully he’ll tell me I’m good and I can do whatever.
Q: What would you tell Wang?
A: What would I tell Wang? I don’t know, learn how to run. I’m one to talk, but I think I can run the bases. (laughs) I don’t know. Prepare yourself for a long, boring time. Find a hobby. Get a PlayStation. Something.
“To put that guy back in pinstripes after he had an 11 ERA in 06 is a disgrace.”
What about after his 3.88 ERA in 2008? No?
I would dominate the AL East. Stop hating, start participating. I will carry you to the promised land just like I did for the red sox in 2004. My relief appearance in game 7 of the alcs is still giving the yankees nightmares. My 2 seamer is IMPREGNABLE!!!!.
B. Arroyo, pinstripes 2008.
So guys, who do you think has a better case for Cy Young, Mariano or Moose?
Okay, so niether of them will get it, but it’s food for thought.
Honestly, I just want to get out of this horrible city. if only jim bowden was still the gm here. you could have me for poterson straight up.
Whozat:
I don’t seeing him being shutdown if they are contending for a playoff spot, do you??? Yankees probably played this right by waiting 4 months. Again using the Verlander example, he was superb for 4 months and then was crap the last two AND into the playoffs (yeah, I know he beat the Yanks but he sucked….Mussina just sucked worse).
“I’m not concerned about his velocity from beginning of game to the latter innings, but I am concerned about his velocity from the beginning of June to the middle to late part of September.”
This is true and clearly an issue – but it’s an issue almost all rookie pitcher have to deal with – especially power pitchers.
The argument about him losing velocity in games was a commonly cited reason for keeping him in the pen rather than the rotation. That’s what I was referring to.
Losing velocity towards his innings limit isn’t a reason to keep him out of the rotation.
“So guys, who do you think has a better case for Cy Young, Mariano or Moose?”
Moose has made no case at all.
Mariano is building quite a strong one.
Whozat- 3.88 is good but I think its luck. His numbers outside of ERA seem to indicate he weaseled out of jams. 87 base-runners in 55 IP does not impress me and the WHIP 1.56 thats awful.
“So guys, who do you think has a better case for Cy Young, Mariano or Moose?
Okay, so niether of them will get it, but it’s food for thought.”
the voters always seem to favor wins. i hate to say it, but i find it hard to imagine a reliever winning a cy young any more. i feel like it’s an unwritten rule with too many voters that it’s an award for a starter. similarly, i find it hard to believe you’ll see another MVP from a non-contending team, or pitcher…
oh yeah, my pick is Moose of the 2. not that i agree with it though…
great game today..SNY (mets tv channel) is gonna be broadcasting the Staten Island Yankees vs the Brooklyn Cyclones…i dont know much about the SI Yanks..i been to their ballpark, its beautiful, my former baseball team played their…any players i should look at with a special eye..
This is Joba’s responce to the New York Media
arroyo or giese or ponson? I’ll take bronsob
Rebecca,
Definitely Mo. With the career he’s had, Mo deserves it more than anyone else pitching right now starter or non-starter in my opinion.
“I would live with Giese giving 5-6 mediocre innings at least he isnt a distraction.”
Giese’ll be a distraction if he sucks. And he will, just wait till the MLB hitters get a book on him. Ponson’s no big deal; a true rental, like a tuxedo for an event. I have no reason to believe that Sidney can control himself long enough to be to valuable. He’ll get one or two starts to buy time to figure out what to do about filling the big hole in the rotation. They’ll throw Sidney on the trash heap asap if he acts up or as soon as they are done with him.
Like someone previously said here – Joba is not going to be throwing more than 105 pitches in a game for a while. Maybe 110 if the pitches aren’t taxing, but that’s it.
There’s no reason to push him too hard. The last thing we need right now is an injury. If it costs us a game or two, big deal. At least he’ll be around to make up for it later.
“Ponson’s no big deal; a true rental, like a tuxedo for an event. ”
and there’s still that friggen wine stain from 2006!!
moose cy young? A lot of super fans here.
“i dont know much about the SI Yanks..i been to their ballpark, its beautiful, my former baseball team played their…any players i should look at with a special eye..”
Unfortunately the Staten Island team this year isn’t looking real pretty. Most of the younger talent was sent to low A charleston. It might get better as more of the college draft picks sign closer to August 15.
The best prospect on that team is probably Pryllis Cuello – a good hitting second baseman. He’s a good prospect. Taylor Grote a young outfielder is also a good prospect.
One guys to look out for is Pat Venditte the “switch pitcher” – he’s ambidexterous and throws both left handed and right handed changing arms from batter to batter. He’s on the team as well.
“Joe Girardi and his staff (via the advance scouts) are very good at taking advantage of weaknesses. Their preparation is exact. The Yankees are far less inclined to wait around for something to happen than they used to be.”
ZOMG!!1 Pete gave credit to the coaching staff! You mean he doesn’t really hate Girardi’s guts?!
“Ponson’s no big deal; a true rental, like a tuxedo for an event.”
I think Ponson is more like this:
http://tinyurl.com/5qhrt4
If nobody is overwhelming in the second half I could see Mo getting a bunch of CY votes. That being said, someone will probably be overwhelming in the second half.
Has this blog become The Dugout without me noticing?
Anyways.. I see no reason the Yankees need to make a trade right now. Some combination of Giese, Karstens, Ponson and Igawa can get us into July. At that point Cashman will have his pick between Kennedy, Horne, McCutchen or making a trade. I think Horne would be huge for this team because he has very good stuff.
Once the trade deadline gets closer Cash can make a trade if he sees fit. TO be honest I’d prefer that he not make a trade for an average pitcher like Arroyo, Byrd, Wolfe, etc since I don’t see how those guys are any better than Kennedy/McCutchen/Horne. If he is going to trade for a pitcher I’d like to see a guy like Sheets, Bedard, Sabathia or even Meche. Meche has the potential to be very good, he has ace-like stuff.
Then again I think the team could probably stay afloat until August with the three guys I mentioned before. At that point Hughes comes back with new mechanics, healed ribs and new glasses!
9 K’s in 5.1 innings? Clearly, I am the answer. Not this Joba guy.
Now, where are my sunglasses…
LOL this guy just sent this trade suggestion for Mike Francesa:
The Yankees send Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy, and Jeff Karstens for Erik Bedard and Raul Ibanez.
I heard that trade proposal, and was like Jeff Karstens stinks. He is not even a real prospect anymore, compared to some guys the system has.
Patrick – I agree 100% – I’d be very upset if we traded away some young pieces for a middle of the road type guy – if we’re going to make a trade i’d much rather see a top of the line guy
“9 K’s in 5.1 innings? Clearly, I am the answer. Not this Joba guy.
Now, where are my sunglasses…”
Did I hear just hear a M&MD caller say the Central League doesn’t use a DH? S%@t, no wonder you won a strikeout title over there…
Leadoff homer off of Foulke to break the tie. Bottom 8.
Trading for Arroyo would be nuts. Trading for CC would be extremely costly.
The deal to make? Bedard.
Bedard, then someone like Grabow or Marte or Fuentes.
Tabata is no longer “untouchable.” And, from among their crop of McCutcheon, Marquez, Ohlendorf, Robertson, etc., they’ve got some tradeable young arms to get whatever they need.
Go for it.
I don’t know why I’m listening to Mike Francessa, but it goes to show you how clueless he really is.
A caller just offered a ridiculous trade proposal that Francessa called “reasonably fair.”
Yanks get: Erik Bedard and Raul Ibanez
M’s get: Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy, and Jeff Karstens
That’s reasonably fair!?!?
You’ve gotta be kidding me.
One of the media members asked Girardi in the post-game when “Joba was going to be more of a pitcher and less of a thrower”?
Do these folks even watch the games? He WAS pitching today.
He was changing speeds, working hitters differently each time they faced him, and he dialed it up when he needed it to get strikeouts.
That’s pitching. Its no wonder some of these folks (like Mike Francesa) spend hours misinforming their audience about the nuances of the game. They don’t understand the game. They just say talk off the cuff and hope what they say sticks.
Some things to look for from now to the AS Break:
1. Billy Traber. This is his big chance. Lots of lefties to face in the next two weeks. If he can get them out, he stays. If not? He will be gone.
They aren’t going to tie up a 40 man roster spot for a lefty who can’t get lefties out.
2. Mark Melancon and Alfredo Aceves. I think both guys will be in AAA shortly. If that happens, and they pitch well, they may find themselves on NY after the AS Break. Especially if the Giese/Ponson experiment fails.
It serves no purpose to keep both guys in AA much longer.
As far as trades, Cash will do what he always does….wait it out. Its all he can do and its the proper strategy right now.
Everybody wants the moon for their players on June 18. On July 30, the day before the deadline? Whole different deal.
Vote for Eastern League All Stars (Trenton Thunder!):
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s......CY8A_3d_3d
confucius
it was the japanese central league
Guiseppe,
The only thing dumber than callers trade proposals on WFAN are the hosts responses to them. It becomes the “Dumb and Dumber Hour”.
Nothing lazier than turning your talk show into “Trade Proposal Thursday”.
Mike ran out of topics to talk about today so he is just mailing in the last half hour of his show. Something he has done for most of the last 10 years.
What’s everyone getting excited about?
Melky’s a 4th outfielder holding Action’s place, to say that Kennedy has regressed is an understatement, and Karstens is…well he’s Karstens.
Isn’t Bedard some kind of strikeout machine?
The attitude can be fixed by moving into a winning environment, but the chronic hip thing is the real red flag.
A good deal, but no deal because of the hip thing.
That’s a good deal for the Yankees
Melky also helped us win our game today.
Off-topic:
I’m almost finished reading “Living on the Black” by John Feinstein. Excellent reading and I highly recommend the book. However, in one of the last chapters, Mr. Feinstein talks about a certain WFAN reporter, (sic) Sweeney Murdy. It kind of bothered me that a person would write a book and not make sure all the names were used were correctly spelled.
Bronson Arroyo is probably one of the greatest pitchers ever.
He has the heart of a lion, he has the arm of Cy Young, hair that makes Jennifer Aniston weep with jealousy, and he has his own website. What more does one want from a pitcher?
**and yes…I couldn’t even type that out without laughing like a crazy woman
Rebecca,
I’m not trashing Melky. He’s grown on me. He’s a solid player, but a ‘tweener. Leaning more towards starter status than 4th outfielder.
But if I had to choose between Bedard/C.C/Santana or Melky, you’ve got to take the frontline starter.
And I’m conservative!
“Everybody wants the moon for their players on June 18. On July 30, the day before the deadline? Whole different deal.”
Before the Santana trade was completed people were certain the Twins would get back an enormous haul of talent.
He was the best pitcher in baseball – how could they not get back a haul of top notch talent?
But in the end the Twins got back very little – nowhere close to as much talent as Oakland got for Haren or Baltimore Bedard.
All of the Twins posturing had to stop when Santana gave them that ultimatum that he wanted a deal done before spring training started. Santana’s no trade and his contract demands just meant that no real market ever developed.
The market is going to dictate what “fair value” for CC is. The indians are now saying that they won’t give any team a 72 hour negotiating window.
They can make all the demands that they want – but if they want to trade CC as strictly a rental they won’t get that much talent back. No one’s giving up multiple high ceiling guys for 10 starts of CC. If they do allow a long term deal to be negotiated very few teams will be in on the bidding.
Shapiro is going to have to take the best offer that’s superior to two draft picks.
What that offer will be is up to the market as much as it is up to Shapiro.
Doreen,
That’s what editors are for! (you and I could do the job)
S.A.,
Haven’t we decided that Bronson’s a better musician than pitcher?
Do people actually think Mussina can win 20 games this year?He like this pitching staff when they head back to the AL will be what they are a overrated staff.
Doreen,
That’s Mark Feinstein.
It might bother him that someone who is now reading his book didn’t get his first name right. lol
mel-that’s why we desperately need him. In addition to pitching, he could provide musical entertainment during the 7th inning stretch.
LOL, on second thought, maybe not. We both missed that one.
Did you guys feel that? We just leapfrogged Oakland.
Someone call Mike and dog show ans ask why joba is being wasted for 6 inning when we can have Igawa pitching and joba being used for 1 inning every 3 days.
Guiseppe, it’s actually john, you’re thinking of the beat writer. different guy
McLaren, we barely knew ya! See ya!
Hmmm, Willie is free…
CB,
My guess is that Shapiro is going to change his mind about opening a 72-hour window for Sabathia.
If he wants his team to get as much talent as possible in return, he’ll reconsider the hard line stance or inconvenience that comes with it.
This move is a huge one for that franchise and the future of that ball club, so I can’t imagine he’d jeopardize it over a little inconvenience.
Rivera for Cy Young
Some food for thought.
Giuseppe Franco -
No. I’m sorry, I’m sitting here with the book in front of me. It is John Feinstein who wrote “Living on the Black.”
Mark Feinsand is a sportswriter for the Daily News.
Or were you just kidding with me????
(If so, I’m really sorry I didn’t get it.
)
Hmm, Tim Beckham got a 6.15 million signing bonus
How does that compare to recent #1 draft picks?
I don’t think the 72-hour window is that big a deal for a club to deal with provided its doing business with one that could afford CC. The thing with that is it excludes a number of clubs from getting in on the deal.
I think if they get a package that looks good and there is the demand for a 72 hour window then they will grant it. Feelers would probably be out in the first place to see if an extention is possible.
(Joba said he was a catcher until he was a junior in high school.)
Molina joked, “That was kind of ugly.” He added in admiration, “That means he’s a tough guy.”
Sorry Doreen,
That was a joke. Probably should have told that one better.
Every time I read a post by Mo-Boy, and, after the headache goes away, the first thing that comes to mind is:
“Sheriff good…Mongo bad.”
No worries, Giuseppe. The one failing of the internet (well, one of the failings of the internet) is not being able to tell tone of voice.
I would still like to know what country MoBoy is from and what his native language is.
GB7,
Holy Frijole!
Thanks for the assist yesterday.
Nick, look higher than another country. I’m thinking Martian.
My pleasure, Mel. Speedy Gonzalez was also part of a song made “immortal” by Pat Boone around 1958.
I just read Pete’s updates. I know, I’m slow. But I just LOVED, “Andy and Moose and reach for the Grey Goose.” How did he know that’s what’s in my freezer????
Doreen, do you have frozen moose burgers and steaks in the freezer?
Totally off topic, but I just wanted to point out a couple of things.
First, I cannot believe that the feds are going after Greg Anderson’s wife.
Second, I cannot believe that I just saw a headline that said, “With the help of off-the-rack dress, Michelle Obama eases harsh image”. Of course it was the NY Daily News.
Mel, this board is about 50% OT.
Pete, do the Yankees take regular infield practice?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....=rumblings
You’ll find other tidbits. Did you guys know that Theo and Towers are also in the last year of their contracts?
Green Beret 7 -
Sadly, I am out of moose burgers and pettitte filets.
Mel -
Because there’s nothing more important than whether the candidate’s wife wears ready-to-wear or designer, right?
I got a really upsetting mass e-mail this morning warning about voting for the “Anti-Christ” Obama. This campaign is going to get very ugly. And fast.
The best thing I’ve heard on WFAN in years was when a caller told Mike today (after asking for time to get his 3 points in) that he hardly ever calls and hardly ever listens…….beats “long time listener, first time caller” by a mile!
Back to Brien Taylor, sure it was a waste, but sorry, I don’t feel sorry for him. He brought it on himself – getting into a bar fight? The kid had a million dollar arm and ten cent brain. He killed his career and devastated the Yankees – I never wish anyone injury, but I don’t have sympathy for him. He had the world at his feet and he threw it away. His mother Bettie was a pain, also.
Anyone watching the Baby Bombers.
Betsv, the “Brien Taylor bar fight” is a bit of a myth. Brien Taylor was at home and his brother got in the bar fight in Beaufort, SC. The bar was a couple of blocks from his home. The brother came home to get a gun, and Brien Taylor went to the bar to get his brother. The actual fight was outside of the bar and two guys tackled Brien and he and them fell on his shoulder.
He had bought himself a car and paid off his mother’s house with his bonus. He’s now a bricklayer, still living in the same house and raising his 5 kids. The local papers here did a “Where Are They Now” piece on him about a year ago. He works hard and is well liked and respecte around these parts. He was a Ron Guidry-like talent. A pity the way it worked out.
oakland just lost, so we gain a game on them in the WC standings. Hope TB loses tonite as well!
Just thought I’d share our old friend’s stats with everyone…
Poor Scott Proctor and his right arm. One hold all year. A WHIP of 1.65. But to have 4 unearned runs in 30 innings has to tell you something about the way the Dodgers have been playing.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=5810
On a side note (somewhat), the Dodgers starter today began the seventh inning leading 6-0, and Torre still managed to use four relievers (including his 3 big guys). I don’t miss his bullpen management. Just saying.
GreenBeret, I did not know that – thanks for the info. I guess Brien may have saved his brother’s life by preventing him from getting the gun. It seems I was wrong about Brien. At least he’s leading a good solid life; it would have been easy to get depressed with what might have been. It sounds like he’s doing fine and has made something of himself.
The only thing that has happened since Joba entered the rotation is that the argument to keep Joba in the pen has been made look SO foolish even if you disregard what Joba has done as a starter. You have people saying “well now Farnsworth is pitching the 8th” ok guys that’s fine, now just tell us when the last time the Yankees LOST a game because of Farnsworth was? I certainly can’t even remember one. What people didn’t realize because of their little baseball knowledge is even when Farnsworth falls on his face and gives up some runs, the majority of the time the Yankees are still going to win, either because of a large lead or just the overpowering offense. No matter how bad you want to say Farnsworth is, he doesn’t have an era over 9 so the majority of the times he comes in to pitch he won’t give up a run. When he does give up a run, the majority of the times the Yankees will have more than a 1 run lead. Do people see the mathematical reasoning? The bottom line is for the Yankees to lose a game because of Farnsworth, all the stars have to line up. They have to have a small lead, it has to be one of the nights he looks lost, and it has to be a night where they don’t score any more runs.
Joba will be a great starter, he just needs time. But we’re still winning. We need an 8th inning guy and a 5th starter. How about Derek Lowe and Joe Beimel(and his 1.25 ERA) for a package of J.B. Cox, Eric Duncan, and a low level prospect?
Good lord if that’s not one of the worst proposals ^^^
I thought that Joba was fairly good with his control. Yes he was off a bit, but the pitches weren’t all that far off. I think with some more time in as a starter he will get more close calls as well.
Sorry Rebecca but Germany is my team! Go Germany!
I love Joba as a starter, but his 1.527 WHIP is nothing to write home about and the pitch limits on him are forcing the pen in the 6th/7th inning. I’d love to see the walks decrease and for him to get into the 7th inning.
With that said, Joba should be starting, no question.