Yankees sign FSU’s Rye
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 24, 2008 
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Was he an undrafted signing?
I know his Uncle Marble
Now he has a chance to play for the only team that will never beat phil hughes.
Marbled Rye? hehe
Nice.
Speaking of Rye:
When you get to the delicatessen store,
don’t buy the liverwurst.
Rob-
That joke was pretty seedy (no bun intended).
brandon shouldnt there be a separate HR count sort like 13 HR, 1 Grand Slam to King Felix lol
Sorry didn’t see the new thread. This was picking up on who deserves to be the AL all star first baseman Giambi, Youkilis or Mourneau:
Giambi is having the best offensive year of any 1b in the AL.
But he’s not the most valuable first basemen in the AL.
That’s probably Youklis. As an overall player he’s the best firstbaseman in the AL.
Giambi so far this year has been around 6-7 runs better than a league average first baseman on offense.
Youkilis has been around 5-6 runs better than a league average firstbaseman.
For the year right now Giambi is on a pace to be 13-15 runs better than a league average offensive first baseman. Youkilis around 11-12 runs better.
The big difference between them is defense – and it really is substantial.
Giambi is on a pace to be around 10-13 runs worse than a league average defensive first baseman (that’s factoring in his overall fielding which includes throwing).
Youkilis is on a pace to be around 15 runs better than a league average first baseman.
So in terms of overall net value, Giambi right now is around 3-5 runs better than a league average first baseman.
Youkilis is on pace to be 25 runs better than a league average first baseman when you count his offense and defense.
Players such as Youkilis who are better than league average by large margins offensively and defensively generate large overall value.
Mourneau is sort of in the middle both defensively and offensively. He might be 5 runs or so better offensively and 0 to -1 defense. He’s comparable to Giambi’s overall value.
I’m basing this on an analysis done over at the replacement level blog earlier this but I’ve rechecked the numbers – none of the players is doing substanstially different in terms of performance. For Giambi’s defense I added a few runs off his defense to guesstimate the impact of his horrendous throwing which isn’t accounted for by zone rating.
http://www.replacementlevel.co.....ve_average
Glad to see plenty of people are drinking enough at work to come up with puns that aren’t the yeast bit funny. This is a great country!!!
No more of these stupid jokes with Rye! It is kinda weird although TKinDC, yours hit me as good because the commnets above yours has nothing to do with the jokes and then yours came out of nowhere.
lol now stop
CB,
Thanks for the info, I have to admit now that Youkilis deserves to be the all-star first baseman. My original argument was that Giambi deserves some consideration because his offense has been the best of any 1B in the AL. Now that I see the difference in defense Youk is clearly the most valuable.
new thread so I’ll copy my last response:
Fredo,
Runs scored or RBI’s shouldn’t make any difference for an individual player’s performance. Those stats hold water only when discussing the team’s performance as a whole. Like I said if you want to talk about a player’s ability to drive runs in quote his batting average with RISP. In that case you would be right because Giambi’s BA w/ RISP is god-awful.
Cano has dropped to a below .600 OPS. .600 is the Mendoza line of OPS in my mind. Are we at the official time to worry yet????
Patrick:
I hear you. Sometimes Giambi’s approach bothers me. I love the OPS, but there are times I feel he’s up there looking for the walk and needs to be more agressive with men on. Feel the same way about Posada sometimes too. Probaby just being hyper critical.
I’m liking Mad Dog right now. He is ripping Johan.
it is beyond time to worry. but betemit in for a week or so, stir things up a bit
“Jeter couldn’t have batted #3 fulltime, there I said it.”
Just because you said it doesn’t make it true. Compare O’neill’s lifetime numbers and Jeter’s lifetime numbers.
Hell, compare Jeter and Tejada. Tejada has batted mainly 3rd/4th his entire career but Jeter’s offensive numbers are better than Tejada’s.
put*
“I’m liking Mad Dog right now. He is ripping Johan.”
Heard today Santana has faced over 5200 position players and allowed only one grand slam.
That was stunning. Pitch was out of the zone, but not far enough.
Fredo Corleone
How many times has he had the bases loaded? That would be more telling.
What’s with all these bad puns?
I think some of you are ill-bread.
Fredo-
How many times has he faced a bases loaded situation? – that might be a more fair and telling statistic.
Who was the other player that hit a GS off Santana?
I was worried about Cano back in May so I’m really worried right now.
If I read it right 67 times.
http://www.baseball-reference......=santajo02
Gayle,
That Felix homerun should count for more. Add 4 to the total or how about 37? That’s how many years since an AL pitcher hit a granny.
Seriously, even though they barely cleared the fences, good job by C.C. and Felix this week. Better result than Bartolo & CMW.
“Runs scored or RBI’s shouldn’t make any difference for an individual player’s performance.”
This is said a lot now and it’s not necessarily true. It is true that runs scored and RBI’s are “team” statistics but a team is made up of individual performances. Clearly, the number of RBIs a player gets depends on how his teammates get on base, but its still up to that player to knock in the run – there is still a major component of individual skill and effort involved there.
And for a hitter like Giambi his batting average with RISP is deceptive. BA with RISP completely discounts how often a player walks.
Now in general having a high OBP is a very important thing. But at times its not enough to consider OBP by itself. If Giambi is hitting 6th and there’s a man on 2nd or third and he draws a walk that’s hasn’t been helping this team win this year because the hitters behind him haven’t been hitting. Is that Giambi’s fault? Not really. But its also true that he’s not helping the team as much as someone who’s high OBP were generated more by a high batting average than a large number of total walks.
A great example of this has been Adam Dunn. It’s great that he’s always on base and draws a ton of walks. But when the guys behind you can’t hit you’re not necessarily helping your team as much with a walk as you are a single.
With baseball stats people have now begun to completely seperate them into team vs. individual, etc. That can be a helpful way of clarifying some issues but its sort of becoming an artificial distinction. Its not an either/ or proposition in many cases.
Jennifer:
8 plate appearances with the bases loaded. No hits, walks or K’s. 1 sac fly, 1 GDIP. Drove in 4 of a possible 24.
Nick,
That’s so sour-d’oh!
MikeEff
Great minds, great minds.
Fredo Corleone
He’s only faced a player with the bases loaded 8 times in his career?
Oops, you guys were asking about Santana’s bases loaded situations. He’s has faced 67 batters with the bases loaded.
No wonder they’re struggling. Nice article on the Two Stooges. I wonder if they live with their moms?
http://tinyurl.com/3j7e3e
Still on about Santana, are we? =P
About Canò: Yeah, I’m worried. Don’t know what happened to him, but something did.
I’m actually for some reason thinking of my best Pavano joke right now
CB-
Giambi taking walks is part of his overall approach to the plate – you can’t separate it from his hitting. If he walked less, he might hit more poorly, it’s difficult to say. I don’t think it’s right to penalize him for the poor performance of the players following him. Maybe he should have been moved up in the lineup.
“if you want to talk about a player’s ability to drive runs in quote his batting average with RISP.”
I agree that BA w/RISP is a critical stat. But it ignores a player’s ability to drive himself in (i.e., HRs) and as CB points out, the walk — in other words, Giambi’s two most critical contributions.
WYH:
Agree with oyur assessment on Giambi, but consider a 1 out, man on 2nd a 3rd situation late in a tie game. Giambi walking (and by default clogging the bases)probably doesn’t serve the team as well as him swinging at a pitch a little out of the K zone and hitting a flyball or grounder. I can’t say with confidence, he doesn’t change his approach based on the situation, but my sense is he doesn’t.
Fredo: Yes, but there Giambi accomplishes what he needs to accomplish by not making an out. I’ rather have him take his walks than swing freely and miss.
BA w/RISP has real limitations due to sample size and randomness problems. It does describe what actually happened, but is not a very good predictor of future performance or a very good descriptive statistic for a player’s overall offensive level.
How exactly does Giambi ‘clog the bases’? Or any player for that matter.
Buster has sources everywhere…
——————————————————–
P. Hughes (NYC): Will I pick to a sub 9.00 upon my return, or am I just way over-hyped?
Buster Olney: (1:43 PM ET ) Phil: You will be much better this time around…. Hughes has ackowledged to friends that he feels like he kind of blew it with his mental approach at the outset of the season. I think that in the end, this will serve as a learning experience for him.
“Now in general having a high OBP is a very important thing. But at times its not enough to consider OBP by itself. If Giambi is hitting 6th and there’s a man on 2nd or third and he draws a walk that’s hasn’t been helping this team win this year because the hitters behind him haven’t been hitting. Is that Giambi’s fault? Not really. But its also true that he’s not helping the team as much as someone who’s high OBP were generated more by a high batting average than a large number of total walks.
A great example of this has been Adam Dunn. It’s great that he’s always on base and draws a ton of walks. But when the guys behind you can’t hit you’re not necessarily helping your team as much with a walk as you are a single.”
CB –
Wouldn’t you say this is a managerial issue? A player like Giambi (or Dunn) would be MUCH more suited to a #3 type batting role than a #6, mainly because #4-6 are much better hitters than #7-9, usually, no?
Giambi’s VALUE as a hitter is his batting eye/patience. I don’t believe he’d be successful altering his approach to swing at more non-strikes for the mediocre addition of hits.
A walk is less valuable than a single in that situation, definitely, but these guys derive their value from their batting eyes – you don’t get pitches to hit if you’re swinging at slop out of the strike zone (see: Alex Rodriguez, in his slumps).
Oh jeez, somebody just invoked “clogs the bases.” Can we just end the conversation right now? Obviously people don’t know what they’re talking about.
Fredo-
Your question is the classic one, and I don’t have a good answer. It’s the argument Red Sox fans posed against Ted Williams for years. At least that puts Giambi in good company!
Man that George Herman Ruth really clogged the bases! He was ALWAYS on base! But he was so fat and slow that he clogged up the bases. He should’ve been on base less, so he wouldn’t clog them up so much.
What exactly was wrong with Phil’s mental approach?
Jerkface,
I see this all the time. Clogging the bases because he’s not a good runner, although he’s better than last season because of the foot injury he had.
Still, a base runner is better than no base runner, and you can always pinch run. Wait, no Christian or Brett. Never mind.
I still laugh when I see Giambi almost get run over at the plate by the runner behind him.
mel: we can only hope he’s right!
Sorry, mel, I must be a gluten for pun-ishment.
“Giambi taking walks is part of his overall approach to the plate – you can’t separate it from his hitting. If he walked less, he might hit more poorly, it’s difficult to say.”
I completely agree with you. But nonetheless that is a limitation in his value, especially when you are hitting on a team that has men on base all the time.
How you generate an OBP does matter. Vladamir Guerrero and Giambi both have similar OBP and OPS over their careers (in years Giambi was healthy).
But how they do it is diametrically opposite as Guerrero doesn’t walk.
Guerrero hits basically the same with RISP as his overall batting average. Giambi does as well. So Guerrero has been hitting around .310-.320 with RISP. Giambi like .250.
That’s a huge difference. On a team like the yankees that has had runners in scoring position all the team over the past few years its even a more important factor.
While you can’t necessarily penalize Giambi you can’t give him credit for it either. All players have limitations – this is one of Giambi’s.
And one other thing – I do think rake and take players like Giambi or most player that generates a high OBP through taking pitches become somewhat exposed in the playoffs. In the playoffs the pitching is better and pitchers pound the zone more often. You can’t count on drawing walks.
IMO this has been part of the reason why the yankees offense has been so anemic in the playoffs recently.
I know what the regression models say about OBP and OPS as predictors, etc, etc But this isn’t only an issue of analysis. Its an issue of content.
“What exactly was wrong with Phil’s mental approach?”
Well, he seemed afraid to throw strikes, for one thing.
““What exactly was wrong with Phil’s mental approach?â€
Well, he seemed afraid to throw strikes, for one thing.”
One thing I like about Hughes is his relative maturity for his age. He seems like he has the ability to learn from his mistakes, take instruction, and bounce back from failures.
Hope he can put it together when he’s healthy.
whozat: Not just that, but he’d crumple any time someone reached base.
Nick-
You scored a bagel on that one.
Rebecca
He did it last year.
Whozat’s right. Phil was nibbling.
Rebecca,
Wang did the same thing last season.
Nick,
Just kidding. You certainly rise to the occasion don’t you?
Is there like yeast flying around the bakeries in San Francisco? (This is a serious question-old world bakeries have yeast in the air).
Clogging the bases:
I say this often but oh well. Last Year David Ortiz led the league in “clogging the bases”. David Ortiz is not a fast runner by any means. He also scored 116 runs. Coincedence?
“Wouldn’t you say this is a managerial issue? A player like Giambi (or Dunn) would be MUCH more suited to a #3 type batting role than a #6,”
That maybe. But nonetheless the manager would essentially be forced to adjust his line up due to the style of Giambi’s hitting.
That’s just a limitation to his game. I’m not saying Giambi should change his approach – I don’t think that at all. If he started swinging wildly he’d be a disaster. But it is a limitation to his value.
Jason Giambi is a much better offensive player than his batting average suggests. But he’s not as valuable an offensive player as his OPS makes him seem to be, either.
If the yankees have a 5th or 6th place hitter who hits .250-.260 with RISP its an issue. It just is. And that’s what’s happening this year.
It’s about the games and performance on the field. Empirical performance is more important predictors of the future.
CB-
The statheads tell us that BA has a large random element due to the inherent randomness of BA on balls in play. If that is true (I’m not totally sold on that, but that’s what the statistics seem to show), then having a larger part of the OBP come from walks rather than BA is a good thing, because walks are less random than BA and more likely to be repeated in the future.
That said, I can’t disagree that once a walk or a single has occurred, the single must have a larger chance to be more valuable, so if two players have the same OBP historically, the one who had the higher BA must have been more valuable (assuming SLG equal), at least in the past. Where that leaves me in the Giambi analysis, I don’t know, except that I’m glad Giambi is on the Yanks.
jennifer,
Ask and you shall receive:
Anthony (NY): Buster- Can you clarify what you said about Hughes’s mental approach earlier in the year?
Buster Olney: (1:58 PM ET ) Anthony: From what I heard, he feels like he let himself get overwhelmed by the expectations, and he’s chomping at the bit to get another opportunity to maintain his focus.
Oooohh:
Allen (NY): Who do you take, Felix or Joba??
Buster Olney: (1:58 PM ET ) Allen: Felix.
reason to trade melky. Maybe after he heats up a bit, if that ever happens:
http://www.nysun.com/sports/ya.....era/80545/
Smart of Hughes to acknowledge what many of us saw with him. He let the pressure and expectations get to him so much, he couldn’t pitch effectively.
Not unusual for a kid his age. Once he gets healthy, I not only think he will pitch much better but, the Yankees (and the fans) will have zero regrets over not doing the Santana deal with him in it.
He’s too good not be a very successful pitcher as long as he can remain healthy.
mel, I don’t know much about local bakeries, but in general they take the path of yeast resistance.
(sorry, TKinDC, I recycled you material. You deserve a challah! No pun can be left half-baked!)
“Jason Giambi is a much better offensive player than his batting average suggests. But he’s not as valuable an offensive player as his OPS makes him seem to be, either.”
You said in one sentence what I’ve been trying to say all morning.
SJ: Alas, it’s a huge if. He’s been on the DL a lot.
Mel: You know, right now, I take Joba over Felix. Joba might not have a grand slam to his name, but, uh, at least he can block the plate properly!
“reason to trade melky.”
problem is, to trade him now is selling at his lowest value since he’s been a full time CF. never a smart plan for a GM.
Nick: ….
I nominate this thread for the LoHud ‘very punny’ Hall of Fame.
Also, according to my friend, Victor,
“glad to see you yankee fans aren’t just loafing about”
i know but trade won’t really be available at a reasonable price for another 5 weeks or so when teams start to really tank. I feel like he can only go up at this point. So hopefully come the trade deadline he isnt such a dead beat. He is only 23 yrs old, and i think other clubs might over value his potential
Nick,
LOL. I’m going to stop now because this could go on all day. Who knew that Rye would produce an a-bun-dance of material?
Rebecca,
I take Joba over Felix cuz, well he’s a Yankee. But if you’re not a fan, who do you take? Hasn’t Felix been injured more than a few times (yesterday notwithstanding)? And could Felix replace Mariano Rivera like Joba could? btw, the King Felix and the King James thing bug the **** out of me. At least Sidney was knighted.
“The statheads tell us that BA has a large random element due to the inherent randomness of BA on balls in play.”
A lot of bloggers on the internet may say that about BABIP but that’s not what people who understand BABIP think.
BABIP was developed to assess pitching – specifically how “good” a pitcher is independent of his fielders and “luck.” So much of statistical analysis in baseball focuses on trying to take a player and strip away context to try to see how “good” he is on the individual level.
BABIP does give you some insight into that for a pitcher. But then people started using it for hitters and just assumed it would tell you the same thing. Which it doesn’t. There has to be some level of skill involved that generates a BABIP. If there wasn’t then you could reasonably assume that a ball hit by Alex Rodriguez has the same probability of being a base hit as one off the bat of miguel cairo. We know that’s nonsense – its unbelievable how hard ARod hits the ball – not just the HR but his line drives as well.
What they’ve found empirically with BABIP (and its still very early on this) but hitters tend to settle around a similar range of BABIP from year to year. There’s a component of skill involved.
This is a pretty big issue for the yankees right now. Cano for the last 3 seasons has a BABIP of .320 or so. Right now his BABIP is .236. Early in the year he just wasn’t hitting the ball hard (lots of pop ups, etc.). But he’s hitting the ball harder now and I’d expect his BABIP to start increasing. It might not get up to .320 but it should go up as long as he makes contact the way he has been recently.
mel: Ah but King Felix and King James still do not have a championship to their name, so their Kings of nothing, yet.
MEL THANKS!!
Here’s a question: Who do you take? A healthy Bedard or a fit Sabathia?
I’m impressed CB. but does anyone say anything about baseball on here anymore. who cares about if joba is better than felix. or giambi and youkilis. what do people think of the yankees, and how to fix a crippled team
Pete, are you really using a message board as a source? THIS is journalism in the year 2008…AMAZING!
Considering an unfit Sabathia won the Cy Young award, I think I’ll take Sabathia.
mel, I’ll stop too. Even though it seems like we’ve barley started, I think we’ve already hit the flour.
BrianD,
Jack Rye was drafted by the Yankees in the 13th round.
mel: Sabathia. Better teammate. Doesn’t take himself out of games.
CB-
Thanks for the insight and I’ll look into that. But your point about Cano does argue for why walks do have at least one inherent advantage – when a player is not hitting , a player (like Cano at least was, hopefully he’s come out of his slump) whose OBP consists overwhelmingly from BA loses more of his value than a player who derives a significant portion of his value from walks, like Giambi.
Nick,
I’m out. I’m hungry all of a sudden and apparently we have to figure out how to fix this crippled team, even though that’s the job of the GM.
Good luck to the Yankees today.
Rebecca,
Josh Beckett was on the DL 8 times prior to his arrival in Boston. He was on the DL (I believe) 1 or 2 more times in Boston. That’s 9-10 DL stays yet, I don’t know a lot of folks who wouldn’t want him on their team.
In baseball, like all sports, certain guys have enough talent that you have to wait it out as long as you can to see if they can realize their potential. Hughes is one of those guys.
His injuries have been odd injuries. Thankfully, nothing to his elbow or his arm. That’s important.
If he was 27, I’d be more concerned. At 21? Can’t worry about it.
He’s a good kid and a hard worker. He just needs to ease off the trottle a bit and relax.
Joba Chamberlain should be the role model for Hughes. Joba is a big kid in the clubhouse. As loose as it gets when he is around the guys. When its time to pitch, his intensity picks up.
He also has the ability to be his calmest on the mound in the toughest situations. That’s why he is so good so early in his career.
Hughes’ overall maturity sometimes hurts him because he’s so intense, he can’t relax. He’s wound too tight to be effective, IMO.
Baseball isn’t football. You play the game wound too tight (like many football players) you will fail just about all the time.
You have to have the ability to play the game with a certain looseness.
Jeter and Chamberlain have mastered it. So has Giambi. It took Arod 10 years to relax and he’s finally able to do it. Even it means laughing at yourself.
Watch Arod on pop ups. That’s his kyrptonite. When he first came to the Yankees, Jeter used to bust his chops (to loosen him up) about pop ups. Arod NEVER broke a smile. Ever. It used to drive him nuts re: his difficulties with pop ups.
Now, Jeter sometimes lets Arod take pop ups just so he can laugh at him and the two of them crack each other up all the time about them.
Loosening up has made Arod a better player. Jeter is a big reason why that happened. It also reconnected their friendship on a larger scale.
Never discount the ability to laugh at yourself and keep things simple. If Hughes can do that, he will be a big star in the game.
people are pretty against getting sabathia. hopefully the indians can tail off a bit. I really think we could be unstoppable, although we need to make sure we can line up to resign at the end of the year.
Think about next year: CC, Wang, Joba, Hughes (4 potential ace types. This is assuming moose and andy are done).
What about trading melky and kennedy, although i think they are both great to have
“btw, the King Felix and the King James thing bug the **** out of me”
Maybe they’ll stop calling ‘em that if we stop calling Phil Hughes the similarly obnoxious “The Franchise”.
People in pinstriped glass houses…….
although joba shows signs of nervousness sometimes. clearly he tries to strike too many people out. part of this is because of the transition from releif to starting. However he still seems pretty nervous and tense.
but you are forgetting to mention that Melky and Kennedy doesnt get CC. not even close.
wave your hat,
Your right – when a player like Cano who generates all of his OBP through BA stops hitting he becomes a near worthless player (especially when he’s not a power hitter). He generates a lot of outs.
That’s the flip side to the OBP/ walks argument. Walking is probably more constant during the regular season.
Post season baseball is different however, IMO. A lot fewer walks to be had. In that case a .250 hitter may really become a .250 or so OBP guy (ignoring sample size).
ARod wasn’t good his first ten years?
what about burnett or lowe
“but you are forgetting to mention that Melky and Kennedy doesnt get CC. not even close.”
Might scratch you out a Marte, but mention those two to Cleveland in Sabathia talks and you’ll hear a dial tone.
“but you are forgetting to mention that Melky and Kennedy doesnt get CC. not even close”
obviously but its a solid starting point. particularly if kennedy comes back and is decent
I heard Boras is trying to sign Rye – he heard the kid is going to make some serious bread.
Too bad Jim Parque retired, those two could have been the bread and butter of this team. (ok, that one’s a stretch)
yea i think that would seriously get their attention
personally, if i were playing GM today, id swing a deal for Derek Lowe, and see if i can expand the deal to include Cano and Loney in some fashion.
The “clogging up the bases” talk reminded me of an old Sparky Anderson quote:
“Problem with (John) Wockenfuss getting on base is that it takes three doubles to score him.”
“Loosening up has made Arod a better player. Jeter is a big reason why that happened. It also reconnected their friendship on a larger scale.”
Seems only fair since Jeter let him hang in the wind when things weren’t going so well early in his tenure with the Yanks.
yea loney would be a great fill for giambi in 09. but i feel like lowe could be a bust
“personally, if i were playing GM today, id swing a deal for Derek Lowe, and see if i can expand the deal to include Cano and Loney in some fashion.”
Can’t imagine the Dodgers doing that. Also think it would be nice if they could get a LaRoche over Loney, as a young RHB would be nice.
if we could get brian roberts in the off season, cano could be the ultimate trading chip
Melky and Kennedy aren’t a starting point for Sabathia.
AJax and Hughes are the starting point for Sabathia.
The Indians aren’t dealing Sabathia unless they get a lot back in return.
Ian Kennedy has zero trade value right now. Melky’s is lower than it was a month ago. How is that a starting point for a Cy Young Winner? It isn’t.
Think less like a Yankee fan and more like Mark Shapiro, the Indians GM.
If you were the Indians GM, do you honestly see Melky and Ian as the starting point in trading your Cy Young pitcher? Of course not.
Arod’s first 10 years were fine from a production standpoint. Problem was, he was miserable. He put so much pressure on himself, he couldn’t enjoy his success.
Now he enjoys himself more than ever. It shows everyday.
Watch him on the field and see how many times he is smiling. Then, roll back the tape and check out 2004-2005.
Its like night and day.
“Can’t imagine the Dodgers doing that.”
theyd do it if you give them enough incentive to do it.
“if we could get brian roberts in the off season”
you’d have to trade for him, and you couldnt pry Roberts away from Peter Angelos’s cold, dead hands.
“if we could get brian roberts in the off season, cano could be the ultimate trading chip”
Not with a .590 OPS he isn’t.
I’d like to assume he’s going to get better, but right now, his value could only be lower if he lost a limb or something.
Santana is 7-6 and even though he’s got a decent ERA there have been some dingers dinged off him.
Although we could use an arm with CMW down and Hughes & Kennedy in a holding pattern, I’m still glad Santana’s a Met and not a Yank.
he does not have the value of say santana, in which hughes had to be dealt. sabathia is still a risk in some regards. I would say deal cano, but first we need a 2nd baseman to fill, and that is not betemit. Sabathia’s contract expires after this year and therefore is just a rental. It is not as if we are trading for sabathia straight up. we would have to resign him in the fall. if they are going to miss the playoffs, it is not that unreasonable to ditch a player a few months early for some solid young talent
SJ44-
You seemed to imply that loosening up has made ARod a better player. I was just (gently) pointing out that ARod has been a spectacular player his entire career. I suspect some loose players are good, and some are bad, and some tightly-wound players are good, and some are bad. Paul O’Neill was pretty decent, as I recall.
SJ: I’m sure Phil will be fine–at least, I hope so, anyway. He’s certainly got the talent there, no question.
It’s amazing to see the composure Joba has on the mound–how he got into that bases loaded, no one out jam, and left without surrendering a run. That’s real maturity.
Those type of players don’t come along very often.
still if the value is to great, we should definitely buy him in the offseason, with giambi gone, we can afford. (not that we couldnt anyways)
Olney had an interesting note in his chat on Sabbathia:
“It’s not going to be a trade-and-sign deal; the strong perception of GMs is that Sabathia is going to test the market even if he’s traded.”
There’s been talk about Shapiro not wanting to give any team a negotiating window. That might be why? If he’s strictly a rental player the market for him expands but they’ll get a very different kind of deal than if Sabbathia would forego free agency to sign.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/.....t_id=21217
“Melky and Kennedy aren’t a starting point for Sabathia.
AJax and Hughes are the starting point for Sabathia. ”
I’d say both are “starting points” but a realistic trade would be somewhere in between. I want Sabathia but I think its going to be tough to get him.
Looks like the Brewers are going on a little run so my idea of Sheets is not looking too likely either.
Derek Lowe is actually a pretty good idea.
“It is not as if we are trading for sabathia straight up. we would have to resign him in the fall. if they are going to miss the playoffs, it is not that unreasonable to ditch a player a few months early for some solid young talent”
True. Melky isn’t solid young talent. He’s a below average offensive player who has regressed with each season he’s been here so far. Jury’s out on Kennedy, but nobody thinks he’s more than a #4, maybe a #3 if he hits his ceiling. That’s not getting you Sabathia and it’s not even getting the conversation started.
The other thing you need to consider is the Yanks won’t be alone in their possible desire for Sabathia. The Red Sox, Cubs, Phillies and more could all be in on it. The more teams who are in, the higher the price will be.
CB, agreed. for the best interest of the Indians, youd imagine Shapiro should allow a window for negotiation.
but obviously, if CC has told Shapiro he would nt negotiate with a team anyway, then his hands are tied.
even so, he can expect at least a minimum of two very good, young, cost controlled players back in return… otherwise, they can just take the draft picks.
Nick and Mel:
I’m glad you two finally decided to baguette.
(ok – i’m done too. darn work made me miss all the fun
)
“No wonder they’re struggling. Nice article on the Two Stooges. I wonder if they live with their moms?
http://tinyurl.com/3j7e3e”
am i the only one who thought this was a link to a mike and the mad dog story?
saying he will enter free agency no matter what is a positive thing because it will keep the price down. and the yankees are most likely to able to convince him not test the market. I just think besides hughes and ajax, there is good talent in our minor league system. we could deal a whole lot of pitchers. also the phillies really dont have prospects get sabathia apparently unless they trade their #1 pitching prospect which is doubtfull.
oh and wanted sheets also. too bad
“Seems only fair since Jeter let him hang in the wind when things weren’t going so well early in his tenure with the Yanks.”
How did he let him hang in the wind? When Jeter stunk it up for 2 months in whatever year it was he was getting booed all the time.
I don’t remember anyone coming out and saying stop booing Jeter. Why should he have come out and say stop booing A-Rod?
Fans may be idiots but it’s their perogative to boo as they please.
Sheets is Pavano light. Dunno about you all, but I think it’s a small miracle he’s made 10 starts (maybe more, but I know he’s 9-1) this season
George King is reporting that Justin Christian has been promoted to the big club.
No corresponding move has been announced yet.
As with anything George King reports, we need to take this info with a grain of salt until a trustworthy source confirms it.
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports.....an_ca.html
“How did he let him hang in the wind? When Jeter stunk it up for 2 months in whatever year it was he was getting booed all the time.
I don’t remember anyone coming out and saying stop booing Jeter. Why should he have come out and say stop booing A-Rod?
Fans may be idiots but it’s their perogative to boo as they please.”
Wouldn’t deny that for a second, Ray. Not saying Jeter went out of his way to make Arod’s life miserable. Arod didn’t require help in that regard. But Jeter very obviously went out of his way NOT to offer any kind of support when asked about Arod. That’s undeniable.
“George King is reporting that Justin Christian has been promoted to the big club.”
wow. he’s not on the 40 man roster, either, so perhaps they’re using the spot forfeited by Steven White, and will use Karstens on Friday instead of Ponson?
Karstens was Eastern league pitcher of the week with 16 K’s over 2 starts – maybe the Yanks hope to catch a hot hand with Karstens and didn’t like Sir Sidney? who knows?
i hope thats true… christian will put some pressure on melky and add some speed to the lineup. he is a great option while gardner can get some more ABs in scranton. also it would make everyone who said they would never call up an 5th outfielder look like an idiot.
Pete, can you confirm or deny the King story?
Fredo,
Jeter is the most vanilla guy I think I’ve seen in my life. He rarely says too much of anything about anything. I don’t think he went out of his way not to support A-Rod. He just refused to tell the fans not to boo him. That’s what I took it as at least.
O/T – If Christian did get called up I guess that means Melky will be sitting this series being that it’s all lefties.
“also it would make everyone who said they would never call up an 5th outfielder look like an idiot.”
When Matsui/Damon are the DH nearly 100% of the time, you, in effect, have only 3 OF’s. This is really adding a 4th OF rather than a 5th.
i think going with karstens over sir booze and bring up christian is a great move. cashman is doing good things
Rebecca,
Except Sheets has consistently been a great pitcher. Over the past several seasons he’s been injured a lot but he’s on pace to throw 200 innings this year. If he was available it’d be a perfect pick-up for the Yanks. His stuff is amazing and its not like they would be counting on him to stay healthy for 4 years. Unfortunately its looking less and less likely that he will be on the market.
This is really adding a 4th OF rather than a 5th.
ya thats what i have been saying. matsui really can’t play outfield for a while
“i think going with karstens over sir booze and bring up christian is a great move. cashman is doing good things”
just because we’re speculating this doesnt mean thats what they’ll do… but it would make sense.
“also it would make everyone who said they would never call up an 5th outfielder look like an idiot.”
I believe what most people have said is that they will not call up Gardner to be a fifth outfielder. Most people were suggesting they call up Christian being that the organization doesn’t really view him as being a prospect.
i really love sheets, but he seems like the type that with the yankees luck would be endlessly injured. not that we could get him anyway
“Most people were suggesting they call up Christian being that the organization doesn’t really view him as being a prospect”
You’re right, im just pumped, i think if they platoon him with melky a bit, it good really put some pressure on him. and who knows maybe his drinking buddy cano
“Most people were suggesting they call up Christian being that the organization doesn’t really view him as being a prospect.”
agreed. allows Gardner to continue to get regular ABs while upgrading the MLB team bench.
who knows, maybe we will get a shelly duncan type spark from christian. (and then never use him again.)
Hopefully Moeller is DFA’d, he is useless at this point.
Christian, Gonzalez, Molina, Betemit is a pretty solid bench. It only took Cashman 3 months to realize you need versatility on the bench.
Patrick: I know Sheets is good. Really good. It’s just, after Pavano, color me over cautious
Where did this whole Christian idea come from? Was there some kind of news that this guy was being considered? Up until today, I hadn’t heard a peep about him.
Calling up Christian strikes me as confirmation that Matsui is not ready to play the field.
i think moeller will be around for a while. I think posada isnt 100% yet. but maybe he is
yea i get the feeling matsui is done fielding for a while. but it is also speed on the bench and competition for melky who isnt earning a cf starting role for the nyy
the royals beat phil in his second start this season…..so that makes 2 high school teams that he’s lost to.
Moeller is worthless at this point. We have a healthy Molina now and as bad as Chris Stewart was in his first game, he really isn’t terrible. Stewart is actually a very good defensive catcher.
I’m not upset with the Christian move- he’s playing pretty well, is hot and has been a lifelong Yankee minor leaguer who probably deserves a little love. But I still don’t get this “Gardner needs to play every day” idea. Gardner could easily platton against lefties (even though Gardner bats left, he hits lefties pretty well) and given the number of lefties we face, that’s a lot of playing time.
But I don’t mean to complain- calling up Christian is a step in the right direction.
New Pete Abe post fresh out of the oven!
(sorry, now it’s really over)
Move makes sense :
Last Ten For Christian :
BA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI W K S CS
Totals .429 42 12 18 4 0 1 7 3 3 7 0
Season :
.309 191 35 59 14 1 4 39 87 15 26 18 3
He is a speed guy, a righty, and acts as a 4th OF if Hideki’s knee is still balky.
Where did this whole Christian idea come from? Was there some kind of news that this guy was being considered? Up until today, I hadn’t heard a peep about him.
“Patrick: I know Sheets is good. Really good. It’s just, after Pavano, color me over cautious”
Rebecca:
Really unfair comparison. Sheets has had a history of being a 220-230 inning workhorse, and even as injuries befell him, he did pitch 400+ innings over the past three seasons and is on pace for 225 this year. Pavano has thrown 110 since the end of the 2004 season and is on pace for the giant goose egg this year.
people have been saying its him or gardner. and that cashman really wanted to develop gardner more. although i agree that we could also platoon gardner against lefties. still he could replace christian after a bit more work. I like this
while listening to the kellerman and kenny show on espn radio today max gave the 08 stats for david robertson and he is off the charts. I think he is in AAA right now and is flying through the system. The trade deadline should be an interesting one with our pitching prospect depth and need of a quality frontline pitcher. I know this topic is beaten to death on a daily basis but what are the odds some of these kids get called up soon to showcase their stuff? also does anyone know anything about this robertson kid?
there is every reason to believe that early on in arods tenure, if their relationship was actually strained that any helpful advice to arod from jeter or public statement form jeter about arod may have been taken wrongly by arod and absolutely by media. in that particular scenario saying nothing is likely the best alternative.