Hawkins takes one for the team
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- June
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This is not to suggest they hold a parade for the guy or anything, but LaTroy Hawkins threw 49 pitches last night. That’s the most he has thrown since July 5, 2000 when he threw 57 against the Red Sox.
If any value was gained last night, it’s that Mariano Rivera and whoever is on the “guys we trust” list got some rest. That would include Jose Veras and … um ….
Better to let Hawkins fill that role than Ross Ohlendorf, who was the reliever getting thrown into hopeless situations earlier this season.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
heeyy he has a purpose
yeah because ohlendorf has been so valuable in those high leverage spots…he and his 5.54 ERA and “power sinker”
it reminds me of the game against the Mets at Shea last year, when i think Darrel Rasner got hurt, or whoever the SP was that game, and Mike Myers came in from the pen and threw a couple innings. he got a lot of praise for biting the bullet for Joe Torre’s bp that day.
he seems like a nice guy and all, but hopefully the Hawkins story will end up much the same way Myers did last season.
I said that last night… Hawkins did the job by not blowing out the bullpen for the next coupld of days.
Veras AND Ramirez, as long as its just for one inning, but I’m ready to see strickland or Robertson, we’re gonna need some major bull pen help come Friday.
“list of guys we trust”. the definition of “list” necessarily entails more than one. i’m not sure theres more than one. anyone who puts edwar ramirez on a list of effective relievers for a playoff calibre team doesnt know the game very well. we need to go get a pen arm.
Is Ohlendorf our very own Aaron Heilman?
That’s what he’s starting to feel like…
He’s in stuck between being a starter, a middle reliever, and a closer. He shows flashes of brilliance in each role, where you say,”Hey, this Ross guy might fit well in this role!”
Then BAM! — He has a stretch of innings where he loses the strike zone, or gives up a bunch of homers.
JoeT-
You are right on with your Mo for Cy Young slogan. His #’s are incredible, is whip is almost .50 If Lee slows down a bit more, he has an excellent shot to win. Although K Rod has more saves overall.
Will he take one for the team and be DFA?
They are stretching him out to be a starter.
jk
Patterson can let Latroy cry on his shoulder and set him up at the Scranton Holiday Inn when het gets DFA.
I think we really need to give a lot of thought towards the future. We NEED an outfielder that can be trusted with hitting AND fielding. We can’t keep sacrificing hitting by playing Cabrera or defense by playing Damon/Matsui. Gardner needs a shot and it should come sometime this year. Right now, we have a few games vs. lefties, so I understand the Justin Christian move. I think we need to think long and hard about Melky’s future. The guy just hasn’t shown any consistency at the plate, and I can’t stand to watch Damon in the field. Matsui is playing on one knee and will probably be our DH full time next year.
More importantly than the OF is our pitching. Melancon, Mcutchen, Robertson, Cox, and Horne all deserve shots at their respective roles in pitching. I do not understand why we insist on sending out these garbage relievers when we have solutions in our own AAA system. Yes, they are young, but the worst that happens is they get shelled, much like our relievers are getting now. Hawkins and Farnsworth are BAD.
I think we need to bring up a few guys, send a few down, shake the team up a bit. I know we are in a decent position at this point in the season, but it doesn’t look like these guys are getting healthier.
On another note, Robinson Cano needs to learn to walk or he is useless. A guy that only gets on base via hits who is not hitting is just an easy out. We might as well bat the pitcher 9th, cause its almost as sure an out as Cano has been thus far. The guy swings at every first pitch, no matter where it is.
Finally, why does Girardi downplay injuries. Just say whats wrong. Maybe he thinks if he says it aloud, it may be true, but it’s not.
I like the fact that Hawkins is a brother, but I dont want him pitching in any tight spots for my team. I wish there was a way we could trade him for another brother that can hit lefties and runs well.
The Yankees should sign a crappy left handed pitcher just to throw batting practice to them every day.
Yah, uh, we need to do something about that bullpen.
Francis-
Arthur Rhodes could be had for nothing.
Bret Gardner is a 5th outfielder at best in the majors. I really dont understand why people get so moist when it comes to this kid. He is not very good.
“He is not very good.”
right now, neither is Melky.
That is the purpose of Hawkins, and should be the purpose of Farnswoth. It’s bad business that the two highest paid relievers in the pen, aside from Rivera, are total Garbage.
Hey Francis, have you seen Gardner play?
Buddy, if the Yanks went after Arthur Rhodes, they’d never beat Seattle.
Buddy Biancalana – thanks – someone was talking about it the other day, he’s definitely deserving as of now
Arthur Rhodes is garbage, why the hell would anyone want him ? He looks like Randy Johnson in his prime vs the Mets and all the sudden people think…..Man you get the point he’s Arthur Rhodes.
On the other hand That Rowand Smith guy wouldn’t be a bad pick up.
““list of guys we trustâ€. the definition of “list†necessarily entails more than one. i’m not sure theres more than one. anyone who puts edwar ramirez on a list of effective relievers for a playoff calibre team doesnt know the game very well. we need to go get a pen arm.”
Man, that 3 ERA is HORRIBLE. Anyone who thinks a 3 ERA is ‘effective’ doesn’t know the game very well.
Uh, yeah I was kidding about Rhodes. He meets the criteria Francis was talking about, getting another brother.
Gardner is better than people expect the only thing is he’s not at the current time, hitting better than Justin was.
Justin in June (51 AB) was hitting .412/.448/.588
I like have christian around by the way. i think we should give him a week or two instead of just this series. He provides rest were it is needed, and buts a bit of pressure on melky i hope.
JUSTIN CHRISTIAN IN AAA
RISP in 56 AB: .393/.426/.589 an OPS of 1.016
Runners on in 86 AB: .360/.400/.488 an OPS of .888
Behind the count: .323/.318/.446
1.000 FPCT % 2.81 RFg in CF
.991 FPCT % 2.27 RFg in OF
The guy has immense speed and hops, he probably IMO has more hops than Mike Cameron in his prime, I still have his catch on my cell phone when he leaped and extended his hand over a 15 FT wall in LF to steal a HR
Gardner if he replaces anyone it will be Melky but we aren’t to that point yet.
Just because a player TEARS up AAA doesnt mean he can do anything in the Major leagues
Shelly Duncan, Ian Kennedy, Andy Phillips etc
“Just because a player TEARS up AAA doesnt mean he can do anything in the Major leagues”
no, but it does mean he should at least be given an opportunity if what you currently have isnt working, no?
yah Hawkins took one for the team along with 7 hits and about 4 runs.. it is not debateable Hawkins stinks and has no role on any good tea.
Ohlendorf has some potential(that is what the experts tell us) but year to date he has shown almost nothing and needs to go down and work on things…
You got to give JC some props and it shows the top prospects that they need to put up numbers to get their shot. He’s a gamers, a hard workers. Exactly what the Yankees are lacking right now. Gardner is very similar. I don’t think it’s time to trade Melky but some time in the minors wouldn’t hurt.
Brett Gardner = Great White Hope.
I see people constantly talking about his walking ability in the minors, yet I rarely see anything about his strikeout disability.
He’s struck out 64 times already facing AAA pitching. How do you think that’s going to translate when he’s facing the Beckett’s and Sabathia’s of the world?
Melky in AAA was 20 and 21 and had a combined total of 221 AB’s and had an OPS of .832
Gardner who is 24 has 264 AB’s and has an OPS of .857.
I just don’t get what all the hype is about Gardner. He’s fast takes a walk and strikes outs a ton.
Does anyone want a leadoff or number 9 singles hitter striking out 120 times a year?
Yeah, I knew you was rattling the chains, Buddy. If the Yanks were going to have brothers on the team, I’d prefer they went out and traded for Zach Greinke. I could deal with brother Luke sitting in the bullpen for the rest of the year.
Shelley Duncan in AAA was a HR or an out, the signs were there, no one cared to read it, he was basically a HR or an out, we compared him to Adam Dunn last year, this year he has regressed immensely, in the case of Justin Christian, he works the count and his speed helps him, he can play little ball and has shown w/ RISP he rakes. He knows how to put the ball in play and make something happen. Will he be a star, ofcourse not, but will he be viable ? Yes.
christian deserves a shot here. the ba with risp is miserable. his numbers and speed earn him a chance
“Bret Gardner is a 5th outfielder at best in the majors. I really dont understand why people get so moist when it comes to this kid. He is not very good.”
Because we all long for a homegrown kid who can bring some energy to the team… but the moment he goes into a 2 for 20 type slump everyone here calls for his head.
We want to see the Yanks develop the type of effective, scrappy players that always seem to kill us (Chone Figgins, anyone?)… BUT TO A POINT… we bark for young guys to make an impact, and once they slump we propose that he gets dealt for some perennial all-star. We can’t have it both ways. We either need to be a patient or impatient fan base… we can’t have it both ways.
Kennedy did quite well in the majors last year if you remember. ask toronto and others..
pitchers take a while to figure things out why is that so hard to understand???Look at Justin Upton a supreme talent who probably will be great 1 day he is struggling much right now for AZ…Same with Jay Bruce, etc.
Buddy…can Rhodes hit lefties? I dont really like brothers that pitch, they dont seem to excell at pitching for some strange reason. Id rather the brother be a position player.
The Yankees need some productive brothers on the team…look at all the past championship teams…they had had brothers on them that played significant roles in their success.
“I just don’t get what all the hype is about Gardner. He’s fast takes a walk and strikes outs a ton.”
he walks just about as many times as he strikes out. so if you say that he strikes out a ton, then you also have to recognize that he walks a ton, too.
he’s been on base like 17 times in the past 5 games. thats absurd.
Shelley Duncan=Mike Hessman. Absolutely no value in a trade.
I do not think Shelly DUncan has regressed but because of very very limited AB’s he is just showing who he always is.. IF he had a nice amout of AB’s he would do what he always does, hit some HR’s and srikeout a bunch.
not real complicated…
“but the moment he goes into a 2 for 20 type slump everyone here calls for his head.”
when has this happened in recent memory? at least to someone who was given an unfair opportunity…
Grady Sizemore strikes out a ton for a leadoff hitter. That doesn’t mean it’s an area Gardner can’t improve on.
Strikeouts or not – Gardner finds ways to get on base even when he’s not hitting. He also adds a dimension this team desperately needs.
Can’t say the same thing about Melky.
It’s time for a change.
I think having speed on the base paths will really help the team. It’s a whole new element that most teams don’t worry about.
JC or Gardner, doesn’t matter at this point. Either one can cause havoc on the bases.
Gardner strikes out a lot in AAA right now. I wish he’d get that under control… He’d be called up in a heartbeat if he didn’t K so much.
“Just because a player TEARS up AAA doesnt mean he can do anything in the Major leagues
Shelly Duncan, Ian Kennedy, Andy Phillips etc”
ummm- the whole purpose of player development is to promote players from the minors that do well. so, while what you say is technically true, it is still stupid.
francis, randy winn is a brother who plays OF and i think can hit lefties pretty well, w/o knowing the exact numbers. he is prob available, and could be useful.
“he walks just about as many times as he strikes out. so if you say that he strikes out a ton, then you also have to recognize that he walks a ton, too.”
He’s not going to be walking at the same pace in the majors. We all know the AAA pitching is not as good as Major League pitching.
Therefore his walks will more than likely decrease while his strikeouts increase.
Pitchers aren’t going to be walking a singles hitter like Gardner. At least I don’t see it.
Garnder and Christian are Winn’s brothers from another mother.
Just jumping in with a question. Might be stupid but here goes. Before we throw Rasner under the bus for good I was listening to Singleton on the FAN and he talked about how bad Raz has been with Jorge behind the plate but was great with Moeller who had caught him in the minors. He said Girardi doesn’t like personal catchers but…
Pete, if Singleton is talking about this does it mean Girardi knows about it too or someone brings it to his attention that maybe he needs to switch to Moeller. I’d hate to give up something cheap and good if it just means switching catchers. Can you ask the question to Girardi sometime?
Is it really that difficult for semi-patient hitter to get walks in the minors? What good is a single hitting guy with speed, if he doesn’t hit the ball a quarter of the time? He’ll be pretty decent, but, those strikeout totals have become a problem or will be in the majors. If he gets them under control, he’ll do just fine.
“Therefore his walks will more than likely decrease while his strikeouts increase.”
it may be likely, those could be the normal trends, but do we know? does it hurt the team to find out? cant be any worse offensively then what the team is currently getting from melky.
“Grady Sizemore strikes out a ton for a leadoff hitter. That doesn’t mean it’s an area Gardner can’t improve on.
Strikeouts or not – Gardner finds ways to get on base even when he’s not hitting. He also adds a dimension this team desperately needs.”
Grady Sizemore? Please let’s not go comparing Gardner with Sizemore.
Gardner may get on base in the minors but he’s a singles hitter, nobody in the majors is walking him.
I can’t see him being any better than Juan Pierre.
“it may be likely, those could be the normal trends, but do we know? does it hurt the team to find out? cant be any worse offensively then what the team is currently getting from melky.”
It actually could be worse. It could be Corey Patterson or Juan Pierre’s production.
Turn Two…Im not sure what Winns numbers are against lefites, but being that he’s been in the NL for a few years now, Im sure he can hit them well because the NL is loaded with crappy left handed pitching. And if I recall correctly he has some speed. I would gladly take Randy Winn.
Pitchers aren’t going to be walking a singles hitter like Gardner. At least I don’t see it.
Pitchers certainly don’t intend on walking anybody. But it happens. It happens all the time.
Do you think Gorzelanny intended to walk Darrell Rasner twice last night?
Probably not.
Major league pitchers walk plenty of hitters, too. It’s not something that just happens in the minors.
“I can’t see him being any better than Juan Pierre.”
and is that really a bad thing? juan pierre gets a bad rap because of that ridiculous contract tied to his back, but all the guy does is get base hits and steal bases.
a prototypical tablesetter, who puts pressure on a pitching staff…
pierre’s made a pretty nice career for himself, and combined with Luis Catillo, reaked havoc on an awful lot of pitching staffs across the NL in his prime.
but we wouldnt want that in NY.
gardner is not going to be a great player. but i am still excited for him to come up. he can spark the team more than melky, that’s for sure.
juan pierre is a solid player. I would love to have him on the team if he didnt have that ridiculous contract
Ray,
For whatever reason, you don’t seem to want to give the kid a chance.
That’s your prerogative, but it’s a foolish stance to not want to seek an opportunity to improve the team.
As far as Rasner and Moeller and there time in the minors, five AAA starts in April isn’t a huge body of work. It’s more lightning in a bottle?
I also feel having more brothers on the team would help us when we’re at Fenway. The brothers play with an extra chip on their shoulders there because of all the racist comments being spewed at them from the white trash, inbred, degenerate drunks that make up the attendance of Fenway.
“a prototypical tablesetter, who puts pressure on a pitching staff…
pierre’s made a pretty nice career for himself, and combined with Luis Catillo, reaked havoc on an awful lot of pitching staffs across the NL in his prime.”
I don’t want Pierre. He’s been really bad for 4 straight years now.
“For whatever reason, you don’t seem to want to give the kid a chance.
That’s your prerogative, but it’s a foolish stance to not want to seek an opportunity to improve the team.”
My reason is that I don’t think he’s any better than Melky.
Is it foolish if I think he’s not a better player than Melky?
melky is BAD
Castillo and Pierre don’t strike out at that rate, either. Look back at when Pierre was hitting .300. He was still pretty useless, because that’s all he did was hit infield singles and little looping fly balls. They’d never drive in a run, then, they’d steal a base or get thrown out trying. They were pretty useless as leadoff hitters. With Gardner, he been caught 9 times in 37 attempts. That’s barely acceptable when talking about top base stealers.
if gardner was a brother I might like him better. I think Ray is right, people here like him because he is caucasian and fast, a rare combo these days. Scott Podsednik is caucasian and fast, would people like him to replace Melky?
Ray,
You’re the same guy who thinks major league pitchers don’t walk hitters so I have no idea what you’re thinking.
But it is foolish not to give someone else a chance when the current starter is clearly not performing.
What do they have to lose? Nothing.
Even Cashman said during ST that Melky had to earn his job to keep it. He’s not earning it, so let someone else get an opportunity.
The whole discussion about Gardner vs. Melky is kind of silly. It’s not as if Giardi and Cashman are kicking back after a loss and saying, “Wow, this is really fun, let’s piss off our fans even more by keeping all the underperforming players we can on the roster.”
They evaluate these guys constantly. Gardner will be up, if ever, when they decide he’s more valuable to the team than Melky. We can say, based on the stats and a line or two we get from a scout or a reporter, that the time is now, but we have a whole lot less to go on than the guys who see these people every day. Gardner said the other day that he’s trying to cut down on the strike outs. It’s quite possible that for the most part he is a better option than Melky, but the Yankees want to keep him at AAA because the best way to learn to cut down on strikeouts is probably not in the majors. For whatever reason, the Yankees have decided that Melky is a better option than Gardner. Maybe this afternoon they’ll change their mind, maybe in 2 weeks, maybe never.
The organization is showing a real committment to young players. It’s highly unlikely that they’re not giving a Gardner a shot now because a) they want to lose or b) because they don’t want to give minor leaguers a shot. They just gave Christian a shot, and no one expected it. Other guys will get ones too.
And Melky, by the way, ain’t that bad. Take a look at the Replacement Level Yankees website and you’ll see that so far this year, he’s been a very slight under average CF.
exactly, well said franco. Boo ray
Yes, Gardner strikes out a lot in AAA, which is why we have hitting coaches to help the kid. Bottom line: We have one outfielder whose potential we have fully realized, an above average defensive outfielder and a below average hitter with spurts of +.300 hitting, as opposed to Gardner who we know, at the very least, works the count, walks, and can turn a single into a triple with steals. I think a lot of people don’t understand that if we had even 2 guys on our team that could steal, we would score more runs. Right now we have Damon, who, as of yesterday, can’t even hit the ball, nevermind steal a base because of his foot.
I hate to use this example because a guy like Reyes is not found very often, but if you’d been watching the Mets, you would see a guy that makes it to third almost every time he gets on base and is driven in by one of the next 2 batters. It’s almost a guaranteed run every time hes on. It would be nice to have a guy that could at least threaten to do that. AM i saying Gardner is the next coming of JC, no. But we have no idea what he can translate into in the majors, while we already know what Melky can do. We are losing our best OF in terms of offense AND defense in Abreu after this year. We need to fill that void, and, as of now, we don’t have a guy in the ML that can handle both tasks of hitting and fielding. It’s pretty sad.
On another note, send down Cano for a bit. He’s a disgrace at the plate this season, not only because of his lack of hitting, but lack of pitch seeing. The guy can’t possibly average more than 4 pitches per plate appearance. He needs to learn discipline.
“You’re the same guy who thinks major league pitchers don’t walk hitters so I have no idea what you’re thinking.
But it is foolish not to give someone else a chance when the current starter is clearly not performing.
What do they have to lose? Nothing.
Even Cashman said during ST that Melky had to earn his job to keep it. He’s not earning it, so let someone else get an opportunity.”
I never said major league pitchers don’t walk hitters. What I’m saying is they won’t walk Gardner at the rate he’s been walking in the minors.
Chances are however they will strike him out more being that major league pitchers are generally much better than their minor league counterparts.
If Gardner was more of a contact hitter I’d be more willing to see them give him a try. The strikeouts and the below .300 avg in the minors just don’t do it for me.
Guiseppe Franco……Nice dye job you greaseball!!!!!!
“And Melky, by the way, ain’t that bad. Take a look at the Replacement Level Yankees website and you’ll see that so far this year, he’s been a very slight under average CF.”
Just read the post about Melky and he’s only -4 runs below average despite his horrific slump.
Wed, Jun 25 @ Pittsburgh 7:05 PM Chamberlain (1-2) Duke (4-4) Tickets
Thu, Jun 26 @ Pittsburgh 7:05 PM Mussina (10-5) Maholm (5-5) Tickets
Fri, Jun 27 NY Mets 2:05 PM Giese (1-2) Martinez (2-1) Tickets
Fri, Jun 27 @ NY Mets 8:10 PM Rasner (4-5) Pelfrey (4-6) Tickets
Sat, Jun 28 @ NY Mets 3:55 PM FOX Pettitte (8-5) Santana (7-6)
..
This has to be wrong ( posted on ESPN ) as Rasner is pitching WAY to early since his last start…right ?
.
AAA pitchers (and posisiton players for the most part too) are has beens or never will be’s. The good ones dont stay there long. so saying that gardner would do better against ml pitching is beyond silly.
Ray,
We don’t know anything about Gardner can or would do in the majors because he hasn’t been given the opportunity.
But if he does the get chance, we can put all speculation to rest both on sides of this issue.
I don’t see the downside in letting someone who has the tools to really add a needed dimension to this team.
Strikeouts or not, Gardner has the tools to be a more productive player than Melky. The Yanks would be crazy not to at least give him a chance.
“Strikeouts or not, Gardner has the tools to be a more productive player than Melky. The Yanks would be crazy not to at least give him a chance.”
What if what you gain in offense you lose on defense?
“Guiseppe Franco……Nice dye job you greaseball!!!!!!”
are those commercials even on YES any more?
I still think this is a .500 team, which has most of it’s win streaks against Seattle and some weak NL clubs.
Look at our rotation without Wang. How can it stack up to ANY of the AL East teams now, including Toronto?
Look at our bullpen, beyond Mo. Anyone you want to give the ball to?
Look at our minor league position-player depth. Nada.
I love this blog. I love this team. But I’m coming to grips with the fact that October baseball is not happening for the Yankees in ‘08. And if by some miracle it does, then another first round blow would be expected by this fan. Pettitte, Chamberlain and Mussina? Not good enough.
We can’t beat Tom Gorzellany. What more can be said?
Melky’s defense is overrated because of his arm. Plain and simple.
And Melky makes nearly as many boneheaded plays, both offensively and defensively, as he does great plays.
Yankee fans would lose no sleep with Gardner in CF.
Don Vito… I have a feeling we will see Ponson taking that start and not Razmatz. Remember Ponson was sent down to AA just recently.
“JoeyA
June 25th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Yes, Gardner strikes out a lot in AAA, which is why we have hitting coaches to help the kid. Bottom line: We have one outfielder whose potential we have fully realized, an above average defensive outfielder and a below average hitter with spurts of +.300 hitting, as opposed to Gardner who we know, at the very least, works the count, walks, and can turn a single into a triple with steals. I think a lot of people don’t understand that if we had even 2 guys on our team that could steal, we would score more runs. Right now we have Damon, who, as of yesterday, can’t even hit the ball, nevermind steal a base because of his foot.
I hate to use this example because a guy like Reyes is not found very often, but if you’d been watching the Mets, you would see a guy that makes it to third almost every time he gets on base and is driven in by one of the next 2 batters. It’s almost a guaranteed run every time hes on. It would be nice to have a guy that could at least threaten to do that. AM i saying Gardner is the next coming of JC, no. But we have no idea what he can translate into in the majors, while we already know what Melky can do. We are losing our best OF in terms of offense AND defense in Abreu after this year. We need to fill that void, and, as of now, we don’t have a guy in the ML that can handle both tasks of hitting and fielding. It’s pretty sad.
On another note, send down Cano for a bit. He’s a disgrace at the plate this season, not only because of his lack of hitting, but lack of pitch seeing. The guy can’t possibly average more than 4 pitches per plate appearance. He needs to learn discipline.”
I nominate this post for ‘dumbest post of the day’.
Wow. Melky’s potential has been fully realized? He’s YOUNGER THAN GARDNER AND HAS HIT BETTER EVERY STEP OF HIS CAREER.
Reyes has been on base 125 times (not including reaches on error). He’s scored 55 runs (8 by his own HRs). He has 26 SBs, which is hardly ’stealing third every time he’s on first’.
Damon can steal. Jeter steals ~15 a year. Abreu and ARod are 20-30 SB guys.
There’s no evidence to suggest Gardner will be a better major league hitter than Melky.
Cano is hitting .393/.433/.500 dating back to his pinch-hit appearance after being benched.
But, you know, there’s little point in letting reality affect your foregone conclusions.
“What if what you gain in offense you lose on defense?”
but what are you losing? Melky’s got a stronger arm, Gardner’s got more speed to cover more ground.
its not like he’s chopped liver out there. Chad Jennings has chronicled Gardner’s defensive abilities… accurate arm, covers a lot of ground, throws to the right base.
“Melky’s defense is overrated because of his arm. Plain and simple.
And Melky makes nearly as many boneheaded plays, both offensively and defensively, as he does great plays.
Yankee fans would lose no sleep with Gardner in CF.”
No, Melky’s defense is rated highly because he has the 6th best zone rating of ALL Major League Centerfielders. (2nd best in the AL).
Veras is not to be trusted either.It’s just MO.Veras like Edwar Ramirez had there good two weks.And that was all.
Anyone know if Melancon is scheduled to pitch at all tonight in Trenton?
““What if what you gain in offense you lose on defense?â€
but what are you losing? Melky’s got a stronger arm, Gardner’s got more speed to cover more ground.
its not like he’s chopped liver out there. Chad Jennings has chronicled Gardner’s defensive abilities… accurate arm, covers a lot of ground, throws to the right base.”
Speed ain’t everything. See: Willy Taveras. D00d’s a butcher in the field.
“Melky’s defense is overrated because of his arm. Plain and simple.
And Melky makes nearly as many boneheaded plays, both offensively and defensively, as he does great plays.
Yankee fans would lose no sleep with Gardner in CF.”
The the post regarding Melky vs. other center fielders here and then try to tell me he’s not a good defensive CF.
“I don’t want Pierre. He’s been really bad for 4 straight years now.”
he’s got an average the last 4 years of around .285ish, and hit over .320 in 2004. he’s stolen at least 50 bases each of the last 3 years.
yeah, awful. how’s he still even playing baseball nowadays?
He’s YOUNGER THAN GARDNER AND HAS HIT BETTER EVERY STEP OF HIS CAREER.
Um, that is absolutely not true and a myth that Melky supporters keep rehashing for whatever reason.
Check out the stats. Gardner has outperformed Melky at nearly every level.
Gardner:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....dner.shtml
Melky:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....rera.shtml
Let’s cut the BS on the age difference between Gardner and Melky. Gardner is two weeks older than Jacoby Ellsbury and he’s not exactly an old man.
Melky supporters often play that tired age game, but either downplay or fail to recognize that Melky greatly benefited from luck and opportunity when Matsui and Sheffield went down for most of the 2006 season. Melky got the opportunity to play every day in the majors because the team was desperate for a capable body after 2/3 of their outfield went down with serious injuries.
By contrast, Gardner has been stuck in the minors for the last year because of the logjam in the Yankee outfield since the beginning of 2007.
Like it or not, Melky supporters, these are the undeniable facts, so let’s be honest about it.
Melky became the everyday CF primarily because of his defense and youthful energy he brought to the team. His offensive production was secondary.
Melky is essentially worthless when he’s not hitting and is a switch-hitter in name only considering that he’s hitting an NL pitcher-esque .132 against LHPs in nearly 40 ABs. That’s no small sample.
It’s time to make a change. Melky has already reached his ceiling and his cons are now outweighing his pros.
“Speed ain’t everything. See: Willy Taveras. D00d’s a butcher in the field.”
no, but see what else i said regarding Chad Lennings, who sees him play everyday: accurate arm, covers a lot of ground, throws to the right base.
really, it basically comes down to arm strength. melky is above average, gardner is average.
Gardner is a very good player I watch him a few times a week here in Scranton.
“Anyone know if Melancon is scheduled to pitch at all tonight in Trenton?”
Highly doubtful. Franklin ran him out for three innings on Monday. 54 for the season. So much for being conservative.
Our bullpen absolutly stinks. I mean realistically if we get 6 innings outa andy in a playoff game and lead 3-2 going into the 7th, who in the word is pitching 2 scoreless innings? Ill tell you: no one
Melky is not the reason this team is winning or losing.
He’s the protypical role player that many people complain that a team needs but also trash when they don’t perform like a superstar.
Juan Pierre is terrible. Last 3 years OPS: 717, 685, 655 Plus he has no arm
Saucy,
No, the Giuseppe Franco commercials aren’t on YES anymore, but the other night I was forced to watch a Mets game at The Outback, and it looks like SNY has picked up this clutch free agent.
“He’s the protypical role player that many people complain that a team needs but also trash when they don’t perform like a superstar.”
he doesnt have to be a superstar, but he also cant be nonexistant offensively… nor should you just accept that because he’s just a light-hitting OF who the team doesnt or shouldnt depend on for production that you shouldnt try something else to bring production to that spot in the lineup if you have options.
“Melky is essentially worthless when he’s not hitting and is a switch-hitter in name only considering that he’s hitting an NL pitcher-esque .132 against LHPs in nearly 40 ABs. That’s no small sample.
It’s time to make a change. Melky has already reached his ceiling and his cons are now outweighing his pros.”
Except on defense he’s actually been saving runs this year.
Read the writeup on him on the Replacement Level blog.
Another thing, we do not know if Melky’s reached whatever his ceiling may or may not be. He’s 23.
why not give gardner a shot for a while.(in a few weeks) there is NO argument against it. what is it really going to hurt the yankees offensively or defensively, no. if melky continues to blow, it can’t hurt to test him out. or at least start up a little competition, something melky and cano have forgetten.
melky is know to be bad in terms of covering ground in the outfield. His arm makes up for this however. Gardner has a decent arm and will cover a lot more ground, he is a more ideal center fielder
“he’s got an average the last 4 years of around .285ish, and hit over .320 in 2004. he’s stolen at least 50 bases each of the last 3 years.”
2004 was his best year. In the four years since, counting 08 he’s been terrible.
He’s not really a good basestealer either. He gets caught > 20% of the time he runs.
“melky is know to be bad in terms of covering ground in the outfield. His arm makes up for this however.”
The evidence disputes this however.
Dump on Melky all you want but it’s a bigger problem.
“Juan Pierre is terrible. Last 3 years OPS: 717, 685, 655 Plus he has no arm”
so then would we say Melky is awful, too? he’s declined from 751 to 718 to 681 this year.
“2004 was his best year. In the four years since, counting 08 he’s been terrible.”
in his 9 year career, including 2008 so far, instead of railing on his ‘bad’ years, if you look at his averages, he sits at a .300 average with a .350 OBP, and averages 50 SBs a year.
itd be awful if Brett Gardner could turn out to be something like that, while sitting at the bottom of the order.
It would have been less pitches if he knew how to pitch better. Can we please so genuflecting to some of these guys Peter. Its nauseating. The guy is not a good pitcher. Thankfully its only a 1 year contract. For 3 million plus a year he should throw 75 pitchers if asked to. The sooner he is gone, 21 or 22 the better this team will be.
Ray,
If you want people to read blogs, maybe you should check out Chad Jennings – a guy who watches him play every day.
Gardner is getting noticeably better in Triple-A. It’s not often that you can physically see a player improving. Progress is usually slow and steady and you only notice it in retrospect. With Gardner, it’s happening right before our eyes.
Why slow this kind of progress?
– Four stolen bases in eight attempts in April, 25 steals in 29 attempts ever since. It seems like he can take a
bag whenever he wants.
– He said last week that he wanted to cut down on the strikeouts, and promptly struck out only twice in four
days, all while walking seven times.
– I don’t know how many pitches Gardner sees each game, but last night it was 25 in five at-bats. It’s gotten
to the point that we in the press box have set an over/under on the number of pitches he’ll see in a game
and tried to guess. Last night the over/under was set at 30 and almost got there.
– The power numbers, obviously, are much better this year than in the past.
Gardner has a place with the team when Damon, Matsui or Giambi are no longer in the line-up and at least one of them has been replaced by a right handed bat.
If Gardner and Melky had equal offensive and defensive skills, Melky would get the nod because of the balance he provides with being a switch hitter. May sould like a silly reason to some of you but the lefty inundated line-up being run out when A-Rod and Jorge were down showed how much the line-up needed that balance.
EDIT: Abreu, Damon, Matsui or Giambi
“because of the balance he provides with being a switch hitter.”
but is he really? he’s been putrid offensively from the right side this year.
Even though I hate your name and commercial, Guiseppe Franco, you are dead on about the Melky love. He really isn’t helping this team and we have better options. Right now, I would rather see Christian in there.
Speaking of the bullpen anyone concerned about the innings Melancon is throwing in AA?
“Ray,
If you want people to read blogs, maybe you should check out Chad Jennings – a guy who watches him play every day.”
Actually I pretty much read Chad’s blog every day but thank you.
We were discussing Melky’s defense and his overall value to the team. Replacement Level’s blog did a nice writeup 2 days ago.
The writeup disputes the claims that Melky provides no value to the team.
“Speaking of the bullpen anyone concerned about the innings Melancon is throwing in AA?”
the organization has a lot better handle on rehabbing pitchers coming back from TJ surgery than i do, so i’ll properly defer to the medical staff on that one.
From River Ave. Blues – “Brett Gardner: 1 for 3, 1 R, 2 BB, 2 K – on base (ready for this?) 17 times in his last 5 games”
“so then would we say Melky is awful, too? he’s declined from 751 to 718 to 681 this year. ”
Yeah Melky is a pretty poor hitter but not as bad as Pierre.
“Yeah Melky is a pretty poor hitter”
so then why the hesitation to try other options if there are players to try out? i just dont get it.
I agree that the medical staff is keeping a close eye on Melancon but 54 innings on June 25 is pretty high.
didnt see this before, but in addition to what CJ said on the SWB blog was this:
“No sooner had I written all of this than a visiting scout randomly started raving about Aceves. I didn’t bring up Aceves, but apparently the scout saw him pitch last week in Harrisburg. In the scouts words, he was a “man pitching to boys.” Said he wouldn’t be surprised to see Aceves in New York by the end of the season. Amazing how many people keep saying that.
The same scout loves Gardner. Compared him to Brett Butler, which sounds about right to me.”
@Andy in Sunny Daytona — Thanks for the laugh.
Don Imus just said ,”no more brothers on this team.