Today in The Journal News
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- June
- 25
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The Yankees were back in Pittsburgh for the first time since 1960 last night and lost again. Joe Girardi was not pleased.
Johnny Damon and Hidemi Matsui are hurting, so Justin Christian was called up. This notebook also has updates on Aaron Small, Phil Hughes, Humberto Sanchez and Derek Jeter.
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Based on the comments, many people are coming up with trade ideas in their spare time. Keep a few things in mind: Three mediocre prospects do not equal one blue-chipper. And put yourself in the shoes of the opposing GM. Mark Shapiro can’t stand up in front of the Cleveland media and announce he traded C.C. Sabathia for Melky Cabrera and assorted Triple-A spare parts.
The Yankees are going to have to give something up or take on a lot of salary to get a good player. That’s how it works.
Hey, now is the time to trade for Bronson Arroyo (1 11 10 10 1 1 3 HR against Toronto last night) at least.
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on Wednesday, June 25th, 2008 at 2:44 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
So you’re saying that Melky + Igawa + Kennedy isn’t going to bring back Ichiro + Bedard + King Felix?
It’s doubtful. Seattle’s holding out for Latroy Hawkins, so the trade talks have stalled.
Any chance the giants would trade Sanchez for some young position players? Would the yankees have a shot at him without giving up Cano or Hughes?
A right handed relief pitcher worth checking out hits the market. Vinny Chulk has been DFA’d.
Here is the thing that bother me the most. Jeter’s quote, ” Sometimes teams are going to beat you.” This guy should be the most upset at the team and himself. Doesn’t sound like he really gives a crap. But I guess as long as he is making his 19 mil, grounding into double plays and diving for balls other shortstops get in front of doesn’t really matter.
What do you expect him to do? Stomp his feet, hold his breath? He’s right. sometimes inferior teams beat better teams.
The Yankees werent going to go 162-0. Dont we wish though. But Jeter is right, your going to lose to teams that arent good, and beat teams that are better than you, thats why baseball is so great.
I say
Out: Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, Darrell Rasner
In: CC Sabathia, Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee
Thats fair isnt it?
SP for SP
CF for CF
SP for SP
So whats the deal with Humberto? Are we planning on him being a starter or reliever?
Sanchez is scgeduled to be a relief pitcher. They’re not sure that his arm would hold up as a starter, mainly.
***scheduled***
Pete, you’re kidding about Arroyo, right? Last nite’s outing notwithstanding, I still never want to see him in Pinstripes. He was part of ‘04 (I didn’t like ‘Minky’ playing here either) & he reminds way too much of Jeff Weaver in almost every regard.
I actually liked Meinkewitz on the Yankees last year, but anybody else I wouldnt want from that team. Well of course and Damon.
I just hope we dont get tricked by the Dodgers FO and take Penny or Lowe off their hands.
Look if we want to get big time players then we’re gonna have to give up either Cano or Hughes/IPK at least. That’s the nature of the current market. We can’t go into this period thinking that we can acquire a difference-maker without saying our goodbyes to some of our top talent. With that said, if Cano can start raising his stock by getting to .250 or something then I would gladly package him, IPK and Tabata for CC/Bedard/Texeira.
CC- Can be had for 5 players surrounded by Melky
Bedard- Will opt out after 09′ to go to Toronto, and doesnt want to play in NY
Texiera- Too many DH/1Bmen to trade for him. Maybe sign him if Giambi isnt resigned
Im not trying to make up a stupid trade but this is honestly what I think we could get Sabathia for
Kennedy
Horne
Cabrera
Robertson/McCutchen
Miranda
That fills there void in SP by giving them 2 mid-high ceiling starting pitchers
Cabrera would fill in well in LF
Robertson gives them a Left Handed relief pitcher along with Perez
or
McCutchen gives them another young SP or long reliever
And Miranda can fill in for Hafner while Hafner goes to DH next season
Honestly, thats as fair as its going to get. 5-1 and we dont lose Hughes, Tabata, Jackson, Betances, Aceves, Melancon, Gardner, Heredia.
CC is gonna be tougher than people think because Shapiro is a smart GM, plus the Indians have enough decent OF prospects as well as Grady. I think we won’t resign Giambi so I’d greenlight a Texeira trade.
I would keep McCutchen over Aceves and give them Veras as well…apart from that it could be the right price.
Yeah but then one of either Giambi, Tex, Damon, Abreu, Melky, Matsui will sit out every game.
5-1 deal like that for Sabathia isnt stupid for either team. Thats nice young talent we would be giving them, not to mention they are all almost MLB ready, and besides Melky, all far away from a pay day which is a big part of these deals. If anything for a half year rental, were getting cheated in that deal, but for an Ace, it would have to be a no brainer to do it. With Hughes returning in August (So is Pavano, but what will he pitch, 2 weeks?) and hopefully Wang returning at the end of the season for the playoffs, I feel very confident in this team
Yanker, Robertson is right handed.
How does this sound
Kennedy
Horne
Veras
Aceves
Miranda
for
Sabathia
Then maybe make a deal with Melky getting us a relief arm.
neither will happen, but its fun to speculate
Robertson is righty? Why did I think he was lefty? Ah, thinking of Robertson from the Tigers
I wouldn’t be that bothered about Matsui sitting out more, he’s gradually wearing down and I think he’s gonna become less productive the next couple of years. Yes if we did that deal for CC we would be in decent shape for a run but I’m still not gonna count on Hughes getting it together.
Im very optimistic about Hughes. He has great stuff, he showed it last season, it just wasnt there in the beginning of the season. I believe he was injured (maybe not to the full extent he is now) since the beginning. He also dominated in ST. If we were to get Sabathia, we wouldnt be forced to have Wang win a game 1. I know Sabathia’s playoff numbers arent great, but that doesnt mean he wouldnt be great in the playoffs with the Yankees. Bruney should be back in the pen after the ASB as well.
Well we gotta hope Hughes can find some of that magic from Texas last year. I mean right now we’re not gonna go anywhere throwing out Rasner and Giese for 2 out of every 5 days, something has to be done. Hopefully an unlikely deal gets done and we get a healthy and effective Hughes.
Game 3 Alds 2007 was better than the texas game for Hughes. I know it was a no hit bid, but in Game 3, he had to relieve Clemens in the 2nd inning, and threw an almost perfect 6 innings in relief to get the only win in the playoffs for us against the 95 win Indians.
That is the game that I looked back on everytime I heard about the Santana/Hughes+ deal
Im ahead of myself but take a look at us compared to the playoff contenders
Sabathia-Beckett
Wang-Matsuzaka
Pettitte-Lester
Chamberlain- Wakefield
Mussina-Colon
Sabathia-Lackey
Wang-Saunders
Pettitte-Santana
Chamberlain-Garland
Mussina-Weaver
Sabathia-Buehrle
Wang-Vazquez
Pettitte-Danks
Chamberlain- Contreras
Mussina-Floyd
Sabathia-Kazmir
Wang-Shields
Pettitte-Garza
Chamberlain-Sonnanstine
Mussina-Jackson
Sabathia-Blanton
Wang-Harden
Pettitte- Duchsherer
Chamberlain- Smith
Mussina- Eveland
Again, im just having a little fun, no need to bash me
I live in Seattle (so that gives me credibility?) and the Mariners would take Melky, IPK, and another solid pitching prospect (or even Alberto Gonzalez and a lower level PP) for Erik Bedard. Bedard is absolutely hated in Seattle and with them headed for full blown rebuilding mode, they’ll take what they can get. Remember, even if they gave up Adam Jones, Bedard’s value has taken a substantial hit and they won’t get as much as they gave up. Also, with Ichiro moving back to RF they’re certainly looking for a CF.
The only thing is if the offense keeps doing poorly they aren’t going to win games. That is the problem that Toronto has. Great pitching, no offense. The Yankees have spotty pitching and spotty offense.
Oh, and based on Yanker’s matchups, the Angels have the upper hand. How phenomenal is their rotation this year? Who knew that Saunders would pick it up and that Santana would round out those away numbers?
Let’s not forget that Ben Sheets (aka, an evolved version of Carl Pavano) is available next year.
Would Bedard be any great acquisition for the Yankees though? I don’t have a lot of confidence in him remaining healthy this year, and with the troubles of injured pitching they already have, they don’t need to have another pitcher on the DL.
With the history of how the Yankees downplay injuries and seem to give the best case senario for when a player returns, I am not so sure that Wang will be back in September. Of course a lot depends on how fast he heals, but I think its better off thinking he won’t be in the rotation.
With the lack of pitching that Pavano has done over the last 4 years, who knows if he would even be able to do much if he came back. The only plus is there is no valid scouting reports on him anymore.
I don’t see NYY interested in trading the farm for CC or another big $ pitcher. Think tinkering this year as Cashman and company believe their better years are ahead of them.
Melky for Marte! (Gardner to CF)
That’s the deal.
“I don’t see NYY interested in trading the farm for CC or another big $ pitcher. Think tinkering this year as Cashman and company believe their better years are ahead of them.”
Totally agreed. These threads with 50-100 imaginary trades that the Yankees would be stupid to make are getting so irritating.
THE YANKEES ARE NOT GOING TO TRADE TOP TALENT FOR THREE MONTHS OF AN ACE.
Teams have done it before. It’s bit them in the butt EVERY SINGLE TIME.
“Hey, now is the time to trade for Bronson Arroyo (1 11 10 10 1 1 3 HR against Toronto last night) at least.”
lol
I don’t think he will be saving us. He probably made Francessa cry last night with that performance
I agree that no CC deal should be done without getting him signed to an extension. But if you can do that for Horne, Kennedy and Melky you have to do it. An extra arm or two could be added, but none of the top ones.
An ‘09 rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Pettite, Joba and Hughes could be the best in baseball. I expect Mussina to retire and Pettite to pitch one last season in the new ballpark. Sabathia would make roughly the same money as Pavano and Mussina combined so it doesn’t hurt the budget.
Until then we stll need a decent RH bat (Nady? Aurilia?) and a LH reliever.
“But if you can do that for Horne, Kennedy and Melky you have to do it.”
but thats not getting it done.
“An extra arm or two could be added, but none of the top ones.”
and this is the absolute wrong mentality regarding a Sabathia deal. its gonna hurt, and youre gonna have to give up a couple top arms/players.
cant deal crap and extra pieces for a stud.
“If you get back-to-back games where your starting pitcher has to come out early, that really taxes your bullpen, and you feel the sting of that for a while,” Cashman told The Courant as he headed home from his office on Monday. “We had guys step up and give us solid performances, give us a chance to win.” – hartford courant
http://www.courant.com/sports/.....0948.story
i’ve asked about this before, and brian cashman is stating it very clearly, but where are the numbers that state how much coming out early actually taxes the bullpen ?
if there aren’t any, why would such an obvious result not be measured?
the yankees are looking for a pitcher. why not look for a pitcher who provides innings since as cashman himself says, it’s important?
it’s ironic that cashman now says it’s important , yet built his 2008 pitching staff around innings restricted rookies.
as long as it’s cashman’s plan to go homegrown, inning restricted rookies is going to be a problem. the sooner someone gets the numbers on how much of a problem short starts cause, the better.
if the yankees themselves knew the numbers , wouldn’t that be a competitive advantage in going after undervalued pitchers?
it is my premise that providing innings is an undervalued pitching stat.
Umm – Johan Santana was essentially traded for Carlos Gomez. And the Mets had the luxury of Santana in the beginning of the season, with a year still left on his contract. CC will command big money – it is stupid to expect they could command more than Melky and some serviceable players in AAA.
Enough with the Sabathia stuff. Cashman is not trading for him.
Have you guys been paying attention the last couple of years?
The last big “splash” Cashman made was Bobby Abreu in 2006 and they got him cheap because Philly was cleaning house.
Mark Shapiro is not cleaning house and certainly isn’t going to give Sabathia away cheap.
You can dream up a thousand trade scenarios that involve Sabathia but Cashman isn’t going to deal any of his young players of value and certainly doesn’t want to pay for Sabathia twice.
The Yanks are probably going to fix this problem internally but could go for a middle-tier arm like Jarrod Washburn or Aaron Harang.
No Sabathia. No Bedard. No Jake Peavy.
Why don’t you guys open your eyes and pay attention? If he passed on Santana – why would he turn around 8 months later and break the bank for Sabathia?
It doesn’t make sense.
A few things.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06.....117099.htm
Someone tell Gary Carter to stuff a sock in it. Just cause you can’t get a job managing a ml team doesn’t mean you can knock someone who did. I think Joe should go kick his ***.
Second anyone see Jerry get kicked out of the Met game last night? And people called Joe’s set up?! If that wasn’t contrived I don’t know what is!
Why hold back David Robertson ? It’s been evident for weeks that Hawkins isn’t and won’t be the answer as a set-up man.
Pull the trigger Cashman ! Either deal or DFA Hawkins sooner than later. He certainly won’t bring anything as trade value by the 7/31 trade deadline.
In the process it clears room at AAA for Melancon.
You guys seem to forget one important fact about Melky. He stinks.
He and a bunch of B+ prospects won’t get Sabathia.
Melky would NOT get Marte straight up either.
“So you’re saying that Melky + Igawa + Kennedy isn’t going to bring back Ichiro + Bedard + King Felix?”
Ichiro is too small to play baseball, Bedard hates people and has hip issues, and King Felix is injured and named after a cartoon cat. I wouldn’t make that trade if I were the Yankees. We would be giving up too much.
“Melky would NOT get Marte straight up either.”
I disagree. A starting CF (for whatever reason) in NY could trade for a relief pitcher on a crappy team.
“Why don’t you guys open your eyes and pay attention? If he passed on Santana – why would he turn around 8 months later and break the bank for Sabathia?”
Generally agree, GF. However, part of the not trading for Santana plan was several youngsters meeting certain expectations this season. Joba aside, this has not happened. That could change the way the organization thinks a little bit.
these are an example of pitchers who provide starter innings, but who have high eras and could be available for the right price:
joe blanton
brett meyers
carlos silva
nate robertson
livan hernandez
bronson arroyo
“I disagree. A starting CF (for whatever reason) in NY could trade for a relief pitcher on a crappy team.”
He’s not a starting CF in Pittsburgh. Nate McLouth is there and is a much better player. That’s the problem. On most major league teams, Melky isn’t a starting CF. He only starts here because injuries have ravaged Damon’s ability to play the position.
Doubt it, Fredo.
Cashman has a lot of faith in these kids and a bad 2008 is probably not going to deter him from the overall plan.
Jennifer, the HP umpire caused a lot of that. I forget who was at the plate, but he was jawing a little about the called strike. The umpire instigated things after that. This is a case where the umpire was in the wrong. Umpires aren’t supposed to increase ire on the field, they aren’t supposed to heat things up, they are supposed to keep things calm.
“He’s not a starting CF in Pittsburgh. Nate McLouth is there and is a much better player. That’s the problem. On most major league teams, Melky isn’t a starting CF. He only starts here because injuries have ravaged Damon’s ability to play the position.”
thank you for pointing that out.
Randy:
Doubt Philly moves Myers while in a race and think Beane will ask far too much for Blanton. Robertson is probably the most compelling guy beyond those two.
Beltran was at the plate, he also got himself ejected.
Randy l -
The way this offense is performing lately, I seriously don’t know if an innings-eating guy with a high ERA could help them. I suppose if you figure they would lose those games anyway, it would save the bullpen to be available for Pettitte, Mussina, etc.
Please. I love reading the blog and I enjoy the baseball talk. I have said my share of dopey things but this notion by many on this blog that a SWB star is going to help the varsity is so off base. Lets look at Ian Kennedy, TOTALLY dominant in AAA, totally garbage in ML. Not saying he wont come around, but it takes time, a lot of time. If the Yanks want to do something to help THIS YEARS team the answer is not at SWB. Shelly is tearing up SWB too.
If a trade needs to be made its for a starter. These guys, Rasner, Ponson, etc are not the answer. You got to give something to get something. Melky is the only chip and maybe a few of those “superstar future HOF” minor leaguers. I would stay away from Bedard, as he will be hard to sign after the contract is up. Go for CC, even if they overpay with prospects. You cant really do anything else right now. I would also DFA Hawkins and trade Farnsworth, somebody in the NL would take him.
During the Santana deal things looked a lot different than they do now. At that point you had two kid pitchers who showed promise to be doing decently.
Both of them flopped big time. Both are out on injury. A GM can desire to have it go a certain way, but when reality bites he will have to alter some of the plan. That’s just life.
When Pettitte came back it changed the whole equation for Santana. At least it did on paper.
Wang being out for so long also alters things a good deal.
As for Melky, if there were something going with the Pirates, they might be interested in him. For Pete’s sake they had Minky out in Right Field last night. Melky would be able to cover Right better than him.
Please. I love reading the blog and I enjoy the baseball talk. I have said my share of dopey things but this notion by many on this blog that a SWB star is going to help the varsity is so off base. Lets look at Ian Kennedy, TOTALLY dominant in AAA, totally garbage in ML. Not saying he wont come around, but it takes time, a lot of time. If the Yanks want to do something to help THIS YEARS team the answer is not at SWB. Shelly is tearing up SWB too.
If a trade needs to be made its for a starter. These guys, Rasner, Ponson, etc are not the answer. You got to give something to get something. Melky is the only chip and maybe a few of those “superstar future HOF” minor leaguers. I would stay away from Bedard, as he will be hard to sign after the contract is up. Go for CC, even if they overpay with prospects. You cant really do anything else right now. I would also DFA Hawkins and trade Farnsworth, somebody in the NL would take him. I would give Cleveland Melky or some prospects and go from there
In regards to Wang, With our #1 starter gone, wouldnt that be enough of a problem to make a trade for a quality starter? I think we needed another quality starter BEFORE Wang got hurt, I think it screams for one now. Otherwise this is a 500 team I think
Beltran then. He argued a bad call. The umpire then took off his mask and was mouthing off. Kruk was saying he thought that the umpire should get a suspension for it. The manager came out to try to protect the player. The umpire even bumped Jerry. Then he still wasn’t satisfied, he went after Beltran and was escalating things.
It reminded me of the crap that went on with Milton Bradley last year. Umpires aren’t supposed to start things or make them worse. If the player is out of control its one thing. In both these cases it was the umpires who were out of line.
Spitz:
Pirates normal outfield is Bay, McLouth and Nady. Plus they have one of the games top 4-5 outfield prospects in AAA. Melky doesn’t crack the everyday lineup in Pittsburgh.
“In regards to Wang, With our #1 starter gone, wouldnt that be enough of a problem to make a trade for a quality starter? I think we needed another quality starter BEFORE Wang got hurt, I think it screams for one now. Otherwise this is a 500 team I think”
YL, I think Joba was on his way to being that other quality starter. But with Wang going down, the argument for a top flight guy is a lot easier to make.
“The way this offense is performing lately, I seriously don’t know if an innings-eating guy with a high ERA could help them.”
good morning doreen-
the offense has to kick in at some point or we might as well work on our tans at the beach this summer.
cb has several times put out 5th starter stats for playoff teams. the average is like 5.5era.
i agree that innings is just one problem, but a winning team plays every edge.
and it will be good practice for cashman to get some veteran who eats innings so next year when he throws out some more ” hope” in the guise of a rookie starter he balances that rookie with a veteran innings eater.
when you look at the predicament that the yankees are in, wasn’t low rookie innings a problem built into the plan? isn’t the mess the yankees are in with starting pitching very much on cashman?
You guys can beat that Sabathia drum until your arms fall off.
But Cashman is the GM and all indications show that he’s not in the hunt for Sabathia.
He’s going to stick with the youth movement plan and find internal short term solutions until Kennedy, Hughes, and Wang return.
Bank on it. Cashman is not trading for Sabathia no matter how much you yell and scream.
The GM puts the team together. The rotation is on Cashman. So is the lineup.
Girardi isn’t doing a great job with them, but there is only so much you can do in a case like this.
As i have said in the past Melky is a marginal OF in the Majors, yes he is 23 and should improve but how high is the ceiling? The melk, Cano twosome must be broken up Melk will be the one to go. You will then see vast improvement to Cano’s performance
“Bank on it. Cashman is not trading for Sabathia no matter how much you yell and scream.”
completely agree.
here is where i stand… i beg you, Brian Cashman, please just be honest with us. If you think we arent contenders right now, and you want to push the system, evaluate our talent, use 2008 as a stepping stone to continue to build from within, thats fine. just be honest with us fans, because then i can temper my expectations for this team.
but, if you, Brian Cashman, think this team can make a playoff run and has a chance at the WS, then make a f’n move! we certainly arent going anywhere with the team as structured.
seriously, you are the yankees. you dont have to worry about adding payroll. can we get a pitcher to pitch for us who doesnt make league minimum and has less than 10 career starts under his belt? or is a castoff from another team that we’re willing to take a chance on?
can we get rid of wasted roster spots on the bench or iun the pen, and promote or trade for some value guys that can fill roles on this team?
What the hell is wrong with Gary Carter?
The man suffers from foot shoved in mouth disease
Pete,
Question for you. What did the Philly front office when they traded Bobby Abreu? The Yankees didn’t exactly trade the farm for him.
Russell,
You have to get real with some of your trade proposals.
The Pirates aren’t trading Marte for Melky. Honestly, think as if you are the Pirate GM instead of a Yankee fan.
Why would they trade for a CF when they have one better than the one you are trading for?
Marte is a big trading chip for him. The Pirates aren’t trading him for a guy who is struggling with the bat. Its not happening.
They wanted Jose Tabata for Marte in the off-season. A few weeks ago, when the Yankees inquired about Marte, the Pirates started the conversation by asking for AJax.
You really think they are going to change their minds now…..especially with the way Melky has hit for the last 6 weeks?
Nor are the Yankees trading for Sabathia unless guys like AJax, Montero and Hughes are in the equation.
Talking trades are one thing. Talking fantasy trades are another. Its a waste of time.
All that comes of it is some folks in here decide Cashman is doing “nothing” because he can’t trade his garbage and turn it into gold.
The ENTIRE league knows Cashman needs TWO starting pitchers. Everybody in the game knows Rasner and Geise aren’t long term answers for the rotation. This is not news.
Why in the world do you think other teams are going to give the Yankees their better players for lesser guys?
Get ready to see Alfredo Aceves within the next couple of weeks to see if he can solve the back end of the rotation dilemma. That’s the next bullet for the Yankees to try.
Robertson? You have to think Hawkins time with the Yankees is coming to an end. He’s probably up next.
If they have to DL Damon or Matsui, we may get to see Brett Gardner.
Those are the realistic moves that may get made in the next week or so.
As far as the offense, they haven’t hit with RISP all season. Only Toronto and Seattle have been worse in the AL.
Why is this a shock to anybody at this point? Its not like we haven’t discussed this in the blog.
Its why they need to somehow shore up the pitching staff. The offense is no longer good enough to offset bad pitching.
Only solution is to find better pitchers and when the off-season hits (and they have a ton of money coming off the books) they can re-tool the offense from a sluggers style to more of a contact hitting style. Where the game is now going in this post-steroid/greenie era.
Its the only way they will be able to solve their offensive woes. Its not going to happen during the season, IMO.
“Spitz:
Pirates normal outfield is Bay, McLouth and Nady. Plus they have one of the games top 4-5 outfield prospects in AAA. Melky doesn’t crack the everyday lineup in Pittsburgh.”
And they also have ANOTHER underperforming prospect in the minors (Pearce). Nyjer Morgan’s not a POS either.
McLouth was SORELY misused by the former manager. He was used as a platoon against tough lefties (who he (and almost everyone) struggles against) instead of as an everyday player (which he’s succeeded at at -every- step of his career).
(yeah, I drafted him in fantasy baseball
).
Fergs, Phillies were asking for better packages, but Abreu was a complete salary dump.
and being as though the Yankees were really the only ones willing to take on his contract, Cashman was able to just wait, and wait… and wait some more until the Phillies had no choice but to take whatever the Yankees were willing to give.
TurnTwo wake up Cashman is not going give away his cards, He is trying to walk the tightrope. Imagine if he says we are not trying to win this year, he would probably lose his job cost them fans at the ballpark and be the laughing stock with the media. But that’s all right you will feel better. Think a little bit before you blog.
First, we should have gone for Kazmir. He is the the ace we need..not CC or Bedard or anyother muckety muck. Even Haren would have been nice…now we are stuck with mediocrity. Will Hughes pan out? I think he will if he can get the edge mentally. Hard to tell right now.
“What the hell is wrong with Gary Carter?”
too many foul balls off the noggin.
concussions tend to decrease blood flow to the prefrontal cortex. lack of blood flow in the prefrontal cortex results in impulse control problems.
in other words, what you think but should censor, comes out of your mouth.
(no comment about how many concussions i’ve had from catching)
Wow, im guessing alot of people dont listen to Cashman and Hal when they speak. How many times have they said they have no-low interest in Sabathia??????????????
Oh, compare the proposed deals here to the proposed deal for Santana…
Now why the hell would we deal more for a lesser pitcher than we would for Johan, and only have him for 3 months? Please, please,re read what your typing! You are making your selves look really stupid with those types of deals.
IF we make a deal, it would be for a reliever or we would dump Hawkins for a mid level guy, or hawkins for a high ceiling guy whos still very raw. Thats realistic.
The deals proposed by you just totally do the same thing of what Pete told you not to do, except being bad for the Yankees. If Cashman stood up and announced he traded some of his his top prospects, and a reliever thats been dominant for us for a rental player,how do you think he’ll be percieved?
How many people would be totally, 100% happy with the following moves from the Yankees?
Hughes+Kennedy+Tabata to Cleveland for Sabathia
AJax+Horne+Montero+Melancon to Pittsburgh for Bay+Marte
There, you’ve got your ACE, your right-handed bat, and your lefty reliever.
What’d you give up? A bunch of guys you barely know*. Awesome right?
What you REALLY gave up was any semblance of a future in the organization. You became the Mets or Tigers who, if their current team can’t make the playoffs, are potentially moving into a decade of worthless losing. You gave away HIGH upside talent, COST-CONTROLLED talent (for every one of these guys that makes it to the majors at ~$400,000, that’s $10-15M you can spend on free agents), a potential core of the future.
*It’s rhetorical
“Only solution is to find better pitchers and when the off-season hits (and they have a ton of money coming off the books) they can re-tool the offense from a sluggers style to more of a contact hitting style. Where the game is now going in this post-steroid/greenie era.”
agreed. my point being why wait until the offseason? if youve got guys who hit to contact, have some speed, can run the bases and keep pressure on opposing pitchers staffs, why not try it now?
now lets keep this all in perspective… you are only as good as the next day’s starting pitcher, and today and tomorrow we should have the advantage with Joba and Moose.
and if they take the next 2 games, they win the series, which should be the focus of this team right now… sweeps are sexy, but winning your series is more important. shows consistency.
it’ll make everything hunky-dorey again, but the fundamental flaws of this team will still remain. Cashman needs to start pulling the trigger on some of these moves.
“it’ll make everything hunky-dorey again, but the fundamental flaws of this team will still remain. Cashman needs to start pulling the trigger on some of these moves.”
THERE ARE NO MOVES TO PULL THE TRIGGER ON.
The only way you make a trade -TODAY- is to overpay.
No GM is going to make a ‘fair trade’ today, when they can wait a month, and try to drive up the price, or wait until a week before July 31st and try to win a ‘desparation deal.’
No -real- trading chips will be traded this month.
I personally think trading for Sabathia is a knee-jerk reaction move.
Especially at the price Cleveland would demand.
Hey Pete, I’m not the biggest Edwar Ramirez fan, but I have to admit he has been very good for the yankees this year. So why does it seem everytime he has a bad game you have to point out that his change-up isn’t fooling anyone? yet when he is dominate there is no mention of how he did, such as in the game against Cincinnati the other day?
He’s not going to be great all the time, and that Pittsburgh offense was really locked in yesterday, so I’ll give him a pass on that. Stil think your coming down on Edwar a little hard. Even with the hard outing he had last night he currently has a 3.09 era, an ERA+ of 132, has given up less than a hit an inning and has more than a strikeout an inning. Not to shabby for a guy that weights less than must 8 year olds.
TurnTwo,
What point does it serve for Cashman to say that? Doesn’t it make more sense to say nothing, monitor the trade market, see how the team plays, and see if he can upgrade it?
Payroll does matter. It matters because the more the Yankees pay in luxury tax, the more they fund their competitors.
If you are going to take on more payroll, you can’t do it with marginal guys. That solves nothing. In fact, its more problematic, given the luxury tax implications.
Bottom line is, if this team can’t hit, they can’t win. We can talk about all the other stuff until we are blue in the face.
Its also best if he just sticks with solving his problems from within if the trade market doesn’t yield any logical solutions.
The more you watch this team, and especially how poorly they play against bad teams, the more you realize, they are an average team at best.
When that’s the case, making big, in season deals end up doing more damage to your club (especially in the long term) than anything else.
“THERE ARE NO MOVES TO PULL THE TRIGGER ON.”
wrong. you can start with the bullpen.
you can DL Matsui. if he’s got knee and neck issues, and is unable to play the OF, then what value does he bring by sitting on the bench as a pinch hitter you apparently cant use?
noone’s saying these moves have to be BIG moves, but lets see some roster play here.
good morning, Randy l -
I do agree that given the fact that there were going to definitely be pitchers in the rotation who would have innings issues, it looks like they didn’t address the need for someone to make up those innings.
But, if they had gotten a Livan-type, wouldn’t you expect that that pitcher would expect to pitch regularly in the rotation? And so then the follow-up is, who of the rookies doesn’t pitch? If everyone stays healthy and more or less effective, it’s a problem.
It’s a problem, I agree. And I guess we’re both saying the solution is not that simple, given the road Cashman has chosen to go down.
Possible reasons LaTroy is still on the team –
1. Cash is still exploring trade options. He did have a fairly decent year last year in Colorado, and that might still hold some sway with some teams. If that’s the case, he might hang around with the Yanks for another month or so.
2. Cash and company may still have some questions or concerns about the young pitchers – Robertson, Cox, Melancon – and are not yet comfortable relying solely on them. If that’s the case, once those questions are favorably (we hope) answered, LaTroy is either traded or released.
From Girardi’s use of him lately, it seems that Joe has indeed lost faith in him (as opposed to Kyle, for some strange reason), so I would be surprised if LaTroy lasts much longer with the team. He sounds like a nice guy, but business is business.
SJ44, agreed. we actually talked about that a couple weeks ago… about how if the yankees are going to continue to flounder with their offense, and fail to drive in runs or really play consistent baseball, what good will it do to add pieces, like a front end Ace, to the team and give up talent to do so? none, because this team would still be a .500 team.. look at the Mets with Johan.
i’m sorry, im just not buying the payroll bs. thats more of a personal preference than reality. they found $18-20 million to add Clemens last year, then can find some extra cash laying around to import a difference making player or two, if they feel they can win it this year.
i realize that it doesnt serve Cashman to go public with his personal opinions on the team and their performance, and the needs he thinks they need… thats really my personal plea to Cashman to be honest with the fans. in no way would i actually expect him to go public with that, though i wish he would so i dont have to go crazy and frustrated trying to watch these games every day.
“it’s ironic that cashman now says it’s important , yet built his 2008 pitching staff around innings restricted rookies.”
No he didn’t. He built his rotation around two 200 inning horses and another veteran who could provide between 160-200IP’s.
Jason Bay?? who wants him? Hes hitting 286 in the NL, with the AL exchange rate that makes him a 255-265 hitter. We have that already. The team has lost two out of three to a weak Cincy team, and now dropped this one to Pitts. I think a trade, even if its a bad one might be good to shake these guys up. Also, why does everyone here think that $$$ and payroll would keep the Yanks from making a deal? Do you really believe that? Not with there track record. Last year the Clemens $$$ was a joke, $$$ is never the reason, dont believe that. They have plenty of $$$. Thats a convienent excuse. Besides if they make a “bad money move ” now, they will get plenty off the books next year
TurnTwo,
The Clemens case is the biggest reason why you don’t make that mistake again.
What did that outlay do for the team other than giving the guys some free T-Shirts? He was barely healthy, didn’t make a difference in the race, and drove up the luxury tax hit for the year.
In other words, they added payroll for a marginal player and it bit them in the butt…..again!
When you do the same crazy stuff over and over, its the definition of insanity. At some point, it has to stop.
If this is the year it stops, I say, “Its about time”!
“these are an example of pitchers who provide starter innings, but who have high eras and could be available for the right price:
joe blanton
brett meyers
carlos silva
nate robertson
livan hernandez
bronson arroyo”
Joe Blanton can not be had for the right price and he’s terrible away from Oakland.
Livan Hernandez and Bronson Arroyo are terrible this year.
Bretty Myers has been terrible for the Phillies.
Carlos Silva has 3 years remaining on his contract and he’s terrible. No, thank you.
The Yankees are averaging under 5 runs a game so far. Why on earth do you think a pitcher with a plus 5 ERA is going to help them?
All of those pitchers listed above are pitching like bums and you want the Yankees to acquire them?
And you think Cashman is a terrible GM?
“The melk, Cano twosome must be broken up Melk will be the one to go. You will then see vast improvement to Cano’s performance”
This “logic” makes sense to you? Melky is now responsible for Cano slumping?
The Yankees are 7-3 in their last 10 and have won 13 of 19 games…
When you read some of the suggestions people have for the team, it’s obvouis they’re only focusing on the negative.
Let’s relax with the panic moves.
“He was barely healthy, didn’t make a difference in the race, and drove up the luxury tax hit for the year.”
so that means you stop making upgrades in the middle of a season if you think they can make a difference?
i disagree with that.
all you gave up for Clemens was cash, and you got to hold onto all your minor league talent, and that was all well and good.
but if i was running this team, and saw a guy like Sabathia sitting there and thought that with the offense this team has, if i can get a LHP who can front the rotation, provide a healthy number of dominant innings, help save the bullpen, and that can be the differrence, thats an easy decision to make… as long as its within reason.
but again, if Cashman thinks that Sabathia isnt the difference, or even with him the team cant win the WS, then you dont make the move.
but you cant just throw out the idea of midseason upgades because Clemens didnt work out. you just have to be smarter about the midseason upgrade and the type of player acquisition you make… you learn, and you get better.
As long as the Yankees stay close, they are in it. So far, as poorly as they have hit with RISP, they are still in it. A lot of things can happen after the all-star break, and usually do. But they do need to tighten up their play. It’s so off-balance sometimes.
Jason Bay?? who wants him? hes hitting 286 in the NL? so with the AL exchange rate that makes him a 250-260 hitter? We have guys like that already. Another thing, I laugh at how people on this blog act like they are the accountants for the Yankees. Saying things like “payroll matters” I can only go by their actions, last year Clemens??? no other team would have done that $$$. If the Yankees were any other team other than the Cubs, Mets, Red Sox, I`d go along and say yes payroll matters. But the yankees have plenty of $$$. To ASSUME its an issue for them based on thier track record is a big assumption. People say here how the Yanks are not going to spend this and that? how do you know? Did anyone think they`d give CLemens all that $$$ last year? I think the Yankees may have a ceiling but I doubt anyone here would know what it is. I think the yankees will use $$$ as a n excuse if needed, but lets not guess and act like we know
“none, because this team would still be a .500 team”
What team are we referring to that’s a .500 team? Last time I looked they weren’t at .500 anymore and haven’t been for a while now.
“The Yankees are 7-3 in their last 10 and have won 13 of 19 games…”
Isn’t it amazing that the Yankees have been playing much better and yet so many people here are calling them a .500 team?
I think I tend to agree this is about an average team, but I that doesn’t mean you stand still.
Hawkins is the Zeke Thomas of the Yankees, no one knows how he’s still with this team. It’s not possible for Robertson to do worse.
I also agree that if Matsui is going to be out for a week or more, DL him. With three catchers, it doesn’t make sense to waste the roster spot.
The nice Rasner story is over, fortunately I do believe Cashman will make a move to bring in another starter. And in August they get Hughes and Pavano (hold laugh) back. That should help the rotation some.
If there are some changes, and I believe there will be, they will remain in the race. There is no team running away with WC. I’ve said this since early May and it’s held true. Even in what is clearly some form of rebuilding year, they will remain in the mix, which is great for us fans.
Lets hope the Yankees stay in the race and make the playoffs by all means because this could be our September rotation:
Wang, Lowe, Joba, Pettitte, Moose, Pavano
I agree that there needs to be some adjustments made, but I don’t think any major move is the answer.
This team can work, they just need to be more consistent. Trading away the farm for a player or two won’t, in my mind, make the team any more consistent.
The one glaring absurdity this season is that the offense cannot be counted on. In seasons past the offense has been able to cover for a lot of deficiencies, and maybe it’s a matter of going to the well one too many times. Because I think this is the first time that very conscious decisions were made in making up this team this year that really put the offense on notice that it was up to them. And they’re not consistently up to the task.
The last week they have lost 3 of 4 to bad teams, any trade will maybe shake up these guys. I was astonished that even though the Pitt pitcher from last night was all over the place, we still have guys swinging at first pitches and swinging at pitches out of the strike zone.
If he dumps Hawkins he should trade Farnsworth. Girardi has to give up the ” I can get Farnsworth to be productive” gig
“No he didn’t. He built his rotation around two 200 inning horses and another veteran who could provide between 160-200IP’s.”
i guess those two rookies in the #4 an # 5 spot don’t count.
but hey, why quibble.
the good news in this age of mediocrity with revenue sharing finally kicking in the yankees are in good shape in the wild card.
if it wasn’t for that#$4#@#^% ing livan hernandez the twins would be behind the yankees?
but what are the chances of him continuing to stink and the twins keep winning?
oh, i guess that brings me back to the 4th and 5th starter spot on the yankees again.
what is cashman’s plan for those spots again?
Isn’t it amazing that the Yankees have been playing much better and yet so many people here are calling them a .500 team?”
that’s a lie.
they are a .532 team.
If (big if) Melky goes in a trade, can you imagine what that would do to Cano? He’s already a basket case without Bowa. Cano and Melky are conjoined twins at this point.
Now if Melky was benched or demoted (another big if) that’s a different story. Maybe that would help clear the picture for Cano. It’s okay to have fun, but this is a serious business.
I’m all for trying a little speed at the top of the lineup. Hate to bring up Boston, but look what Ellsbury (not saying Christian or Gardner are Ellsbury, so no need to get riled up) has done for their offense.
they have won 1 out of their last 4 games, so its not as if they lost all 4, and that pittsburgh lineup of stargell/clemente/bonds/bonilla/ray/parker is fierce … i think girardi summed up last nights performance pretty nicely so hopefully they play better the next 2 nights against this doormat
on a positive note, pittsburgh sounds like a great sports town so they are going to get some large crowds — good for them
“The Yankees are averaging under 5 runs a game so far. Why on earth do you think a pitcher with a plus 5 ERA is going to help them?”
raynagnetic-
so where are those stats on how low starter innings lead to problems on a team?
i thought you knew how to look that sort of thing up.
the simple answer to your question is that a 5.5 era is better than a 7.00 – 9.00 era.
“i guess those two rookies in the #4 an # 5 spot don’t count.
but hey, why quibble.”
You said he built the rotation around the rookies. When he didn’t. They were the 4th and 5th starters coming into the season. 4th and 5th starters generally pitch less innings than the 1 to 3 starters.
Last year the Yankees top three starters threw 215, 199, and 152IP’s no other starter pitched more than 100 IP’s.
“if it wasn’t for that#$4#@#^% ing livan hernandez the twins would be behind the yankees?”
The Yankees lost 2 games where Darrell Rasner gave up 2 and 1 runs. Livan Hernandez has an ERA > 5 he’d probably be 2 and 10 on the Yankees.
“that’s a lie.
they are a .532 team.”
Is .532 not > than .500? If not I’ll trade you 500 dollars now for your 532 dollars okay?
“The Yankees are 7-3 in their last 10 and have won 13 of 19 games…
When you read some of the suggestions people have for the team, it’s obvouis they’re only focusing on the negative.
Let’s relax with the panic moves.”
Totally agreed.
“so where are those stats on how low starter innings lead to problems on a team?
i thought you knew how to look that sort of thing up.
the simple answer to your question is that a 5.5 era is better than a 7.00 – 9.00 era.”
You keep harping on low starter innings but the truth is Hughes and Kennedy who were responsible for a majority of the low innings haven’t pitched in more than a month.
The four starters who’ve pitched the most innings for the Yanks have averaged
5.56 – Moose
5.77 – Rasner
6.25 – Pettitte
6.3 – Wang
All with better numbers than your boy Livan Hernandez.
“that’s a lie.
they are a .532 team.â€
Is .532 not > than .500? If not I’ll trade you 500 dollars now for your 532 dollars okay?”
i was agreeing with you.
it was a lie that the yankee are a .500 team.
they are of course better than that as your laser like logic proves, however , a .532 winning record is so close to .500 you can see why lesser mortals than yourself would be confused.
kennedy and melky for aaron harang?
“I’m all for trying a little speed at the top of the lineup. Hate to bring up Boston, but look what Ellsbury (not saying Christian or Gardner are Ellsbury, so no need to get riled up) has done for their offense.”
You can say it – Christian is better than Ellsbury, just a little older. Christian is hitting .500, what is Ellsbury hitting? That’s what I thought.
“The Yankees lost 2 games where Darrell Rasner gave up 2 and 1 runs. Livan Hernandez has an ERA > 5 he’d probably be 2 and 10 on the Yankees.”
Doubt it. Livan has an ERA of 1.74 in his 8 wins (57 IP, 11 earned runs). He’s been very feast or famine. When he’s been good, he’s been real good. Same applies to bad. He’s been as apt to pitch a quality start as Mussina has (Livan is 9 for 17, Moose is 8 for 16) and is nowhere near the drain on the pen.
randy, SIMPLE QUESTION coming. WHO WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE?
Pitcher A: 8-4 record, team is 12-5 in his starts, 5.23 ERA, 1.61 WHIP, averaged 6.08 innings per start over 17 starts.
Pitcher B: 3-10 record, team is 6-10 in his starts, 4.33 ERA, 1.34 WHIP, averaged 6.375 innings per start over 16 starts (and a 4 inning relief appearance).
“Same applies to bad. He’s been as apt to pitch a quality start as Mussina has (Livan is 9 for 17, Moose is 8 for 16) and is nowhere near the drain on the pen.”
Livan Hernandez has thrown 103 1/3 innings in 17 starts.
Mike Mussina has thrown 89 1/3 innings in 16 starts.
So, 1 extra start of (on average) 6 innings, and an extra 8 innings over the course of 16 starts (half an inning per game).
That’s not -a lot-. Because, you know, your arm might have 120 pitches, but when you give up 12 hits, that’s a lot of pitches.
Livan’s had a few -short- outings.
Lets just hope when the leadoff man get on jeter just strike out
5.56 – Moose
5.77 – Rasner
6.25 – Pettitte
6.3 – Wang
Livan averages nearly 6 and 1/3 innings per start.
“Livan averages nearly 6 and 1/3 innings per start.”
I have less than that.
i wouldnt trust Livan Hernandez any farther than i could throw him, and thats not very far.
Mike’s one inning stint skews the numbers.
Pitcher B: 3-10 record, team is 6-10 in his starts, 4.33 ERA, 1.34 WHIP, averaged 6.375 innings per start over 16 starts (and a 4 inning relief appearance).
I’d rather have Harang than Hernandez. Then again, I’d rather have Harang than Mussina too.
“The four starters who’ve pitched the most innings for the Yanks have averaged
5.56 – Moose
5.77 – Rasner
6.25 – Pettitte
6.3 – Wang
All with better numbers than your boy Livan Hernandez.”
hernandez is 6.06
Mike’s one inning stint skews the numbers.
Yup it does, but so does the fact that he doesn’t get thru 6 innings about half the time.
Why do some of you get soooo testy about trade proposals? It doesn’t do any harm, but sometimes the reaction is as if national security was being compromised.
The Yanks are trying the near impossible, committing to youth while continuing to win. Thus they bail on Santana talks, but sign Hawkins and bring back Abreu. That contradictory approach is what generates debate about what to do and when to do it.
You can’t hold on to ALL your prospects. There’s not room for everyone. The key to effective player development is knowing who to keep and who to deal. I think Horne and Kennedy can be effective starters in the majors, but I don’t think they can be great. But two effective starters at low cost is a valuable commodity to a financially challenged team, thus trade suggestions involving them is not out of line.
Eric Bedard is going to cost Cleveland dearly. After the king’s ransom Seattle paid for him and the results they have gotten no one will be lavishing huge packages on the Tribe for a head start on CC Sabathia.
I would not want to deal Hughes, Robertson or Melancon, but I think all other pitching prospects should be on the table if winning now is important. the Yanks have too few positional prospects to include anyone other than, perhaps Gardner or Miranda.
so I was just looking at some of the triple A stats – WHY are these guys not getting call-ups?? Robertson and Cox need to be in the pen (I know Cox was hurt but give him a few outings and call him up).
AND Juan Miranda is hitting .319 – Why isn’t he playing first base with Giambi DHing – if only for the period of time of Matsui and Damon being out – with those two out and Christian playing left field, the DH slot is open for Giambi and Miranda should be at first
mussina is coming off a high pitch count start because of taking one for the team in his last start.
if he does badly in one of his next few starts because of this , how do we measure the impact of covering for an overworked bullpen?
say what you will, but livan hernandez does not overwork his bullpens.
He pitched 8 the other day.
“if he does badly in one of his next few starts because of this , how do we measure the impact of covering for an overworked bullpen?”
When he is largely responsible for the overworked bullpen, you simply call it even.
“Lets just hope when the leadoff man get on jeter just strike out”
Lol. That’s the problem with infield gap hitters.
“He pitched 8 the other day.”
Skews the numbers much in the manner his 1 inning start did.
first of all, everyone should probably consider that wang 1.) might not be back for the playoffs. The yankees generally play down injuries. There is a good chance he will not be back at full strength in Sept.
2.) Also don’t even mention pavano’s name until he actually starts a ML game.
3.) As far as CC goes. Although i have flip flopped on this. I think we should see how the season plays out. In the off season however we should do whatever it takes to lock up CC. It is not worth hurting our next 5 years for a chance this year. We could have an unbelievable rotation in a yr. or two.
4.) hawkins and farnsworth should attempt to be traded if possible, for anything. Robertson needs to come up.
5.) We are going to need to find a replacement for giambi next year, bc lets face it, he is not worth 22m next year. Texeira + kelly johnson? (Cano, melky, ipk, horne) and whoever else
Melky’s situation is a perflexing one.
He may be as good as he’ll ever get. His talent may have topped out.
If that be the case, Cashman can try to get what he can in packaging Melky as part of a deal by the trading deadline. Enter Brett Gardner with A-Jax in late 2009 or certainly in 2010.
This can also serve as a wakeup call for Melky’s buddy, Robby Cano.
What teams needs Melky is for Cashman to explore.
Why would you trade a center fielder, 2 pitchers and a second baseman for a first baseman you can’t sign and a second baseman who’s worse offensively and defensively than the one you just traded?
why can’t we sign teixera next year. and i am just listing names. the key part is teixera and cano.
Cano is not the reason for pitching injuries, bullpen ineffectiveness and under performance by Cabrera and Jeter. Again why trade for a worse second baseman and you can’t guarantee that Teixiera will sign with the Yanks. Just because a couple of NY hack writers say it, doesn’t make it so. Their prediction rate is about 10%.
I like have christian around by the way. i think we should give him a week or two instead of just this series. He provides rest were it is needed, and buts a bit of pressure on melky i hope. If he playes poorly just send him down. And at that point we could bring miranda up to play 1st for a while and have giambe DH for a bit.
Because it’s over paying for a bat. Teixeira other than that 3 HR night off of Carlos Silva has been nearly horrible for the Braves, we want a 1B but not at his price.
i am not blaiming cano for our season by any means. but he sucks as of now. I would rather not have a hole in our lineup when giambi leaves to go along with the .200 batting average of robbie
what are 1b could be options? i have no idea
So, now, Cano has become a .200 hitter?
he has been batting around .220 most of the season. Sorry i will be more specific
I like have christian around by the way. i think we should give him a week or two instead of just this series. He provides rest were it is needed, and buts a bit of pressure on melky i hope.
JUSTIN CHRISTIAN IN AAA
RISP in 56 AB: .393/.426/.589 an OPS of 1.016
Runners on in 86 AB: .360/.400/.488 an OPS of .888
Behind the count: .323/.318/.446
1.000 FPCT % 2.81 RFg in CF
.991 FPCT % 2.27 RFg in OF
The guy has immense speed and hops, he probably IMO has more hops than Mike Cameron in his prime, I still have his catch on my cell phone when he leaped and extended his hand over a 15 FT wall in LF to steal a HR
you guys dont give up. Just because a guy TEARS up AAA means nothing on the major league level. What are they going to hold tryouts? Thats what spring training is for
story about CCs summer free agency
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports.....ana_4.html
#51, you’re the one that labeled Cano a .200 hitter now and next year by insinuating that he’d be a hole in the lineup then.
alllright man, clearly im a little sick of Cano at the moment. perhaps im being “harsh”
randy: Awww, why is Arroyo on the list? He’s not even an innings eater this year.
Just jumping in with a question. Might be stupid but here goes. Before we throw Rasner under the bus for good I was listening to Singleton on the FAN and he talked about how bad Raz has been with Jorge behind the plate but was great with Moeller who had caught him in the minors. He said Girardi doesn’t like personal catchers but…
Pete, if Singleton is talking about this does it mean Girardi knows about it too or someone brings it to his attention that maybe he needs to switch to Moeller. I’d hate to give up something cheap and good if it just means switching catchers. Can you ask the question to Girardi sometime?
Random thoughts:
To pay CC 6/$110 or more is a touch call. To trade 5 players, 3 of whom are MLB ready, is nuts. Looking to the future, our problems are NOT pitching. by 2010, we will have lost Giambi, Matsui, Abreu and JD. We need impact bats.
Unless Moose gets injured or falls off a cliff, my guess is we will resign him. As a borderline HOFer, Moose wants as many wins as possible. For next year he is a fine #5/#6. If we really don’;t end up needed him… well, wouldn’t that be good news. I believe he will give the Yankees a good deal, as he will want to stay in NY and be on a potential winner. He doesn’t need money, but Wins and a place he is comfortable.
RLYW did a RSAA analysis of MLB CFs, including both O and D. Melky rated just slightly below average in 2008. This with 2008 numbers that are the lowest of Melky’s brief career. Melky is also young, very cheap and has a 90% chance of being much better then we see now. Melky is NOT a stud or a star. But The Yankees are NOT going to have ‘an All-Star at every position’. The will have a few ‘bit players’. And if you have a bit player, wouldn’t you like him to be cheap, very good on defense, young and have an upside? A players value and future are relative to his cost, youth and upside. In that, Melky does have decent value. If Melky turned into a .775 OPS guys with 12 HRs a year, which you guys be that surprised?
Someone Else – Dude, you make a LOT of sense!
What the hell are you doing HERE?
Hey YankeeLover: “hes hitting 286 in the NL? so with the AL exchange rate that makes him a 250-260 hitter?”.
…. Where did you get that from? Over the last EIGHT years, the NL BA has avaeraged NINE points less then the AL. This year, it’s TWO points less.
“any trade will maybe shake up these guys.”
Really? A trade will get Jeter to raise his OPS .100 points and Cano’s .200 points, as well as solve our RISP problems?
Giambi will cost $5m if we don’t sign him and $22m if we do. Therefore, his NET cost to the Yankees is $17m. That is a fair price for a .925+ OPS guy.
Cano, in 45% of the season, is batting .235. His career numbers, including this year are: .302 .336 .466 .802
Melky is way down my list of concerns. OldYanksFan is right, solid players at some positions, stars at others is a good balance to maintain. the lack of position prospects is a real concern with Abreu and Giambi being FA this year, Matsui, Damon, Molina after ‘09.
With almost $ 90 mill coming off the books this year, a young 1B in his prime (Teixiera) is an ideal addition as is a bonafide # 1 starter (Sabathia). Even if those two cost $ 40 mill a year there’s plenty left to address RF and LH relief pitching. Patience with Melky and Cano is needed at this time.
Count me in with those who want to DFA Hawkins (a terrible signing) and call up Robertson. I like having Christian on the roster… give some flexibility that could be valuable.
Just curious here – but who were the impact bats during the 1996-2000 years?
the yankees don’t wan’t to take their payroll higher.last years payroll was lower because posada,cano,mo,arod and a few more got big raises this year.their payroll is troubling to them.they also saw that higher payrolls don’t work and teams are locking up young players for cheap and staying away from older ones because steroids no longer protect their investments.they will not trade players for cc just to watch him walk and lose those players.it is one thing to trade melky,kennedy,cano for cc and sign him long term but they won’t for a few months.we forget that the yankees have the same pitchers as last year,no additions and in 2007 they were a few games away from winning the most games.another problem is if we trade for cc how does hughes get innings with cc,wang,joba,pettitte,moose and pavano and others in the mix.hang tight wait till the offseason,they will sign moose and pettitte for 1 year and in 2009 they have wang,pettitte,moose,joba,hughes.i’d like to see them get an ace like weeks and let moose go and next year have weeks,wang,pettitte,joba,hughes with brackman knocking at the door.how quick you people forget that the yankees were in a lot worse shape last year and we heard the same things and they won 68% of the rest of their games, maybe better.