Hal: Cashman talks will wait
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 03, 2008 
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You remember Hal Steinbrenner. He’s the calm one.
MLB.com has an interview with Hal today that touches on a variety of subjects.
Most interesting was his take on Brian Cashman’s contract:
“I was with Brian at the draft and we haven’t discussed that yet,” he said. “We both know that now is not the time. I can’t speak for Hank – maybe he’s had some discussions with him about that, but I certainly have not. We’re just trying to get everyone healthy and win the pennant, win the World Series and that’s kind of what we are focusing in on right now and Brian understands that.
“Brian’s been a good general manager, and again, it’s something that we are going to analyze when the time is right, which will be at the end of the year. Now is just not the time.”
Keep in mind that Hank and Hal share the power. We also have three months of the season to play out. Cashman is going to want at least the same authority he obtained in 2005, if not more. Whether the brothers Steinbrenner agree remains to be seen.
Cashman could have a lot of options come the end of his contract. Odds are he stays with the Yankees. But as the calm one said, that’s something to be analyzed at the end of the year.
I like the Calm Steinbrenner Brother
I’d like to see Cash stick around. I’d hate to see someone else enjoy the fruits of his labor.
======================================
From KLaw:
Mark (NJ): Brett Gardner has some wheels. Whats his long-term projection?
Keith Law: (1:37 PM ET ) 4th/5th outfielder.
While Hank may do his share of complaining, I think he knows what he’s got in Brian Cashman and that his work is not done yet.
The man deserves a long-term contract and the trust of his bosses.
It’s a shame Hank can’t go home and run daddy’s horse farm and restaurants because Hal is the competent one of the Steinbrenner brothers and doesn’t sound like a complete buffoon every time he opens his mouth.
Hmmm I think Law is selling Gardner a bit short. I think at his peak Brett could start on a lesser team.
Why don’t Hank and Hal just strap Brian to a bungie cord hang him outside of the new stadium and then yo-yo him back and forth?
Cash stays. He knows what it takes. He may overrate a few guys, but all in all knows what he’s doing.
Law doesn’t want to come in here spewing that garbage about Brett Gardner.
Brandon…. was that you on the Law chat today?
Nope.
I don’t necessarily disagree with Law’s projection of Gardner.
But Melky’s projection is the same – a 4th/5th outfielder – so it’s time to see which one should be playing every day until Jackson is ready in 2010.
“But Melky’s projection is the same – a 4th/5th outfielder”
I’ve never seen Melky projected as a 5th outfielder. I have seen him projected to one day have 80 XBH’s though.
I think Gardner should play everyday next year until Jackson. The reason is, he has a decent, accurate arm with great speed. Melky has a great arm with no offense. Gardner as least has speed and OBP. We will get enough power from Damon, Matsui, Arod, hopefully Cano, maybe Giambi and Abreu, Posada, and others. Speed is what we will lack and Gardner gives us that. Once Jackson is ready, we look to either deal Gardner and Melky then or even earlier or keep one as backup.
What are you talking about raymagnetic?
I should also point out that I don’t agree that he’ll one day have 80 XBH’s. Just pointing out that I have seen Melky projected to have a much higher ceiling than Gardner.
What 80 XBH’s are you talkin’ about
Ray,
What difference does it make?
He shouldn’t be an every day starter and that’s the overall point.
Unfortunately, this team doesn’t have any other choice right now because there are no other options at the minor league level for awhile.
Sorry, it didn’t refresh right so I did not realize my first post went throuhg.
A projection is an educated guess.
I say let the kid play, and see what he can do.
You could fill an AllStar team with players who weren’t projected to be much.
“What are you talking about raymagnetic?”
http://www.baseballprospectus......cleid=7053
Scroll down some on the page.
“Ray,
What difference does it make?
He shouldn’t be an every day starter and that’s the overall point.”
Because I think Melky has more capabilities than Gardner? Yes that’s my point.
Law seems to downplay anyone or anything Yankee. He had Buchholz over Joba last year (I think).
But even if Gardner is a 4th outfielder, he’d be a great pinch hitter and could spell the starters as necessary.
But did you guys catch Damon’s comments about Gardner last night? I don’t think he formulated those himself. Seems like they were all sat down and told what the plan was.
“I think Gardner should play everyday next year until Jackson.”
Not sure next year is going to feature Jackson. At least not early on. He’s playing well in AA, but not dominating. He’s still got some work to do on his game and will almost certainly start ’09 in AAA.
What was Melky’s projection before he came up 2 years ago? What was his upside? His arm?
We’ve seen what Melky can or can’t do for two years. So it’s time to let Gardner play and see what he can do.
He certainly can’t be any worse than what Melky has done since May 1.
Melky benefited from an opportunity in 2006, so let’s see if Gardner can take advantage of his opportunity.
I’m looking forward to Sunday with Joba vs. Wakefield because Gardner can run all day long on him if he gets on base.
Mel,
Law loves Joba. I remember Law writing an article about Joba after he saw him in the Futures game I think it was. He said Joba should be the only pitcher the Yankees never think about trading.
What did Damon say about Gardner last night?
****pinch runner
Fredo, I said Gardner play next year in 09 and Jackson up in 2010, sorry, maybe it was confusing the way I wrote it.
“He certainly can’t be any worse than what Melky has done since May 1.”
Why do people keep saying stuff like this? He can too be worse than that.
If Melky has more capabilities than Gardner, he certainly hasn’t shown it.
If nothing else, this should be a kick in the arse for Melky and competition is good for the team.
If it doesn’t spark Melky, then all the more reason why he needs to sit and watch someone else play.
Guiseppe, you’re right, all Gardner’s got to do is get on base. He’ll be on third in a matter or three or four pitches and with Damon behind him, there is a good chance he’ll have a few pitches to run on.
“If Melky has more capabilities than Gardner, he certainly hasn’t shown it.”
And Gardner has shown it? He’s been in the majors for all of 3 days and he’s suddenly show he has more capabilities?
Man, reading about Chris Snyder’s injury over half an hour ago still hurts now. Still, I wouldn’t trade this feeling for whatever it is he’s feeling right now.
Although I have to say that it would have been pretty funny if the sound editor had inserted a sound clip of a bell being rung at juuuust the right time on the highlight film.
I think he’d be the only one not laughing, and that’s not only because it would probably hurt him to laugh ….
Garner hasn’t shown anything at the ML level yet. We all like him because we’re down on Melky and everyone loves minor leaguers all of a sudden.
I’m sorta thinking Girardi starts Melky tonight.
ray,
From yesterday’s game thread:
“And Gardner has shown it? He’s been in the majors for all of 3 days and he’s suddenly show he has more capabilities?”
Yeah, I believe all we know now is that he runs faster than Melky.
He’s had at bats that suggest that he knows what he’s doing, but I still question whether the talent will let him do it.
Gardner hasn’t proven he’s better than Melky yet. Melky is still the starter, my guess is Gardner will be on the bench tonight.
Brett still has to prove he belongs. He shows promise but he hasn’t convinced me of anything yet. I wanted Gardner called up awhile ago but that doesn’t mean I’ve given up on Melky.
Mel,
Thanks. Very interesting. Maybe that’s part of the reason why Melky hadn’t missed a game until yesterday as well.
ray,
See what I mean? Johnny didn’t come up with that himself. And he does have loose lips. I bet if you wanted to crack the iron curtain of silence, he’s the one to interview.
Damon’s always been fond of his own voice. He loves attention.
I think folks are both overrating Gardner and dumping too much on Cabrera. The truth about both of them (from a projection standpoint) is somewhere in between both extreme viewpoints.
Law is not Anti-Yankee. I have sat with him during games and he’s actually quite positive re: the Yankee system.
Loves Hughes, Montero, AJax, and the Charleston team. Thinks if Tabata can get his head out of his butt, he can be a player.
Isn’t as high on guys like Horne, McCutchen and Gardner for example for a variety of reasons. Not all of which are off the mark, IMO.
He also thinks DeLeon (who is in the Dominican Summer League) can project to being a star corner OF at the ML level.
What he doesn’t do is spew nonsense that every propsect is going to be great. In other words, he doesn’t tell fans of any one team what they want to hear.
Consequently, folks view him as anti-(fill in the team).
For example, he’s real tight with Theo yet, he rips the Red Sox farm system for overrating players all the time.
He’s a bright guy and really does know the game.
Doesn’t make him right all the time…..nobody is, but he’s a good judge of talent, IMO.
Why do people keep saying stuff like this? He can too be worse than that.
Um, people keep saying that because it’s true.
Melky since May 1: .215 /.275 /.280 in 200 ABs
There are NL pitchers who could be more productive than that.
And Gardner has shown it? He’s been in the majors for all of 3 days and he’s suddenly show he has more capabilities?
Um, yeah.
And my opinion is not based on his 3 days in the majors, it’s based on the tools he brings to the table – speed, stolen bases, working pitchers, and getting on base.
I would have conceded some points you’ve made the last few days defending Melky if I hadn’t seen him play every day for the last two years.
But based on what I’ve seen from Melky, I think this is what he is – a 4th outfielder who makes a lot of stupid mental blunders whose offensive production is in decline and shouldn’t be an everyday player.
I’ve heard the whole age argument so many times and it’s tiresome. But young kids at 23 or 24 who play every day should be getting better.
Melky is not. And it’s time for a kick in the arse and let someone else play.
I’m so bored right now that I’m youtubeing Madonna music videos I’m up to “La Isla Bonita”
Girardi has already said Melky will be in CF tonight.
They aren’t going to have Gardner face Lester. Nor should they. The lineup is already too lefty dominant.
Melky has always had good games against the Sox. Perhaps tonight will be one of them.
Honestly, I think some of you who have already evalauated Gardner as having “shown more” than Melky already need to take a step back.
The kid has had less than 15 major league AB’s. He has shown he is fast. That’s it.
Way too early to decide he is “better” than Cabrera.
Perhaps he will be but, after so few AB’s, we haven’t seen that yet.
Gardner’s upside is limited IMO due to a lack of power. As long as he keeps the ball on the ground he can probably leg out some hits – we’ll see if enough hits.
He needs to walk a lot. If he can do that, there will be a place for him somewhere. His speed is the real deal.
I still cringe everytime I see Dave Roberts face. Gardner has that type of game-changing speed. Melky had a spoiled cup of bad coffee before getting recalled. The jury is still out on Gardner but he was very close to having two hits last night
SJ
Did Law express any opinion to you about Zach M. or Romine?
i was going to ask how credible Law was compared to others, but SJ seems to have answered appropriately already…
I don’t think anyone said Gardner is better than Cabrera, am I wrong? A lot of people seem to think it’s worth giving Gardner playing time to see what he can do.
Seems like a reasonable approach to me.
No way Gardner starts tonight against the lefty. That’s why Christian was up last week.
Law actually liked Joba more than Buchholz last year. It was baseball american and baseball prospectus who ranked buchholz over joba. The BA guys in particular loved Buchholz.
Law isn’t particularly anti-yankee. In general he tends to talk much more skeptically about most prospects than other guys do.
He was very negative about two of the sox best pitching prospects today.
Some people have said that Michael Bowden is the best pitcher in the AA Eastern League. Here’s what Law had to say:
“Jim (Portland, OR): KLaw, what is your opinion on Bowden now that you’ve seen him?
SportsNation Keith Law: (1:13 PM ET ) Disappointed. He was 88-91, below average command, flashed a plus curveball that has a chance to be an out pitch. Barely used his change, which Red Sox people have told me is his best pitch. Ugly delivery. Never saw the 94 mph I’d heard he was dealing this year, and the pro scout behind me told me he’d seen Bowden twice before (in 2008) and never had him above 88-92.”
There’s also been talk of Dan Bard being called up now to help the red sox pen. Law’s take on Bard:
“Howie Rhody: Sox bullpen has been terrible lately. Time to bring up Bucholtz and Bard? Send Masterson to the pen with Bard?
SportsNation Keith Law: (1:15 PM ET ) Buchholz in the rotation and Masterson in the pen. I wouldn’t let Bard near the majors – yes, he hit 98 for me, but walked the first two batters, showed little command, and had a below-average breaking ball. He’s further away than I thought. ”
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/.....t_id=21323
I personally think Hank, Hal, Cashman, everybody on the the team and managers should grow a mustache and dye it black!!!!!
Oh, the 12 year old stalkers are back with new names! lol
You don’t like what I post, don’t read it ’cause you ain’t changin’ what I write.
No, we never talked about Romine or McAllister.
Here’s a tip “toot”. Nobody forces you to come here. Stay or go, the blog goes on.
“For the last time: ”
i hope this is true
I don’t know why you guys are fighting, just grow mustaches and you will be fine.
Tooting my own horn: pipe down u idiot.
Sorry for engaging the troll. It’s best to ignore these kind of people.
Ignoring starting now..
“Um, yeah.
And my opinion is not based on his 3 days in the majors, it’s based on the tools he brings to the table – speed, stolen bases, working pitchers, and getting on base.”
Wow, just wow. So after 3 days your mind is made up? Alrighty then.
Toot doing what he does best….playing with himself.
Enjoy! lol
Hey Toot, go back under the bridge.
“And my opinion is not based on his 3 days in the majors, it’s based on the tools he brings to the table – speed, stolen bases, working pitchers, and getting on base.â€
Only one we know translates to MLB for sure is the speed.
In my amateur opinion, Keith Law is one of the best and most credible analysts in baseball. He has more intelligence in his little finger than the entire rest of ESPN’s staff has in their entire bodies. Combined.
“What a bunch of silly gooses.
Cant we all just get along?
Are we here for baseball, or are we hear to throw sand?”
Part of the fun in watching sports is arguing with people who don’t share your viewpoints about players and teams.
At least it is for me. We don’t all have to agree to get along.
Now people like Toot are idiots and should really be ignored.
Kevin Deleon is putting up good numbers in the DSL. Doesn’t turn 18 until October either.
SJ44 :
Theo Epstein does have a tendency to overrate his players but he gets plenty of help from Gammons.
Don’t know if this was mentioned already or not, but Rick Rielly at ESPN notes:
“Roger Clemens just sold his Bentley, reportedly to pay legal bills.”
Should LoHud be passing the hat or something?
I think all teams overvalue their own prospects for several reasons.
For job retention purposes. Doesn’t do much good to downgrade guys you have spent a considerable amount of your owners money to obtain and train.
They also do it for posturing reasons. They want to position their prospects in an appealing manner to make them more attractive to other suitors.
Unfortunately though, Gammons has gone off the cliff recently.
To call Craig Hansen, “the best setup man in the AL East” defies logic.
At this point, Pete is more a fan than journalist. Still has been the best baseball writer in my lifetime.
Unfortunately, you have to take his player reviews with a grain of salt these days.
Hate the Sox but I haven’t noticed Boston suffering too much lately due to Theo overrating prospects…
Wow, just wow. So after 3 days your mind is made up? Alrighty then.
Perhaps reading is not your strong suit since I’ve already said that my perception of Gardner has nothing to do with his 3 days in the majors.
It is getting a little old seeing people trash on Melky. He is in a slump right now, and it is something that everyone goes through. He has still had a better season than Cano. He is also a clutch player. He is a great bunter and bats of .400 with the bases loaded.
I personally am not ready to dump Cabrera at all. If the rest of the offense was actually doing its part then there would much less of this discussion.
I remember when everyone thought the Sox should bench Pedroia last year after April. They did not and he won the Rookie of the Year. Obviously Melky has had much more time in his career to prove himself, but I think it is real early in his career to jump off his bandwagon b/c he is riding a slump.
anyway, was just reading the comments in the previous post and saw some talk of trades for SP’s, so I am gonna carry that over here and ask, what does everyone think about maybe trading for Jarrod Washburn?
I think it could work. We could get him for almost nothing, he only has a year and a half left on his contract, he has poor numbers this year but if you look at month by month splits it was May that really killed him. He was average in April and really solid in June, where he put up a sub-3 ERA. And he has great numbers at Yankee Stadium. Even in May when he was struggling and came in with the Mariners, he pitched well here. Plus, he has pitched in big games down the stretch before.
Kevin Deleon is putting up good numbers in the DSL. Doesn’t turn 18 until October either.
Eduardo Sosa is making him look like a sissy
This is completely off-topic, but it’s a section of Tom Verducci’s SI story on Tim Linecum, and it’s incredibly fascinating:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....707/2.html
But one section in particular that stood out to me was this one:
“From the loaded position, when the ball has come to a stop, it is accelerated from zero mph to 90 mph in 3/10 of a second. Rick Peterson, the former New York Mets pitching coach who has worked with ASMI since 1993 and is the acknowledged expert on pitching biomechanics among his peers, once referred to that measurement in a speech he gave to college coaches. A doctor of physics who was in the audience approached him after the talk.
“Rick, do you know what that means in g-forces?” the doctor asked.
“I have no idea.”
“If your entire body was accelerated at that rate of speed for over 60 seconds you would die.”
No wonder pitchers break down. Pitching, unlike most athletic activities, has reached the limit of what is humanly possible. So while we are accustomed to increasingly swifter sprinters, faster swimmers, longer drivers of the golf ball and bigger football players, you will not see a pitcher throwing 110 mph. The arm and shoulder are maxed out. Pushed any further, the shoulder would blow, like an engine in a race car.
“People run faster and jump farther because we have figured out ways to make your muscles bigger and stronger,” Fleisig says. “The baseball pitcher, every time he pitches, his muscles are pushing his ligaments and tendons to the limit. In the future, I can’t anticipate making the muscles bigger and stronger because you can’t strengthen the ligaments and tendons that much. That’s why the role of research in baseball is not to get the pitcher to throw faster but to lower the risk of injury.”"
“Perhaps reading is not your strong suit since I’ve already said that my perception of Gardner has nothing to do with his 3 days in the majors.”
yah your write, reding isnt’ meye strong soot.
I agree with those who respect Law… well informed and even handed in praise adn criticism. I also agree that both Cabrera and Gardner are fourth outfielders on an oustanding teams and acceptable starters on a good team, but I’m not certain you could play both of them due to the lack of power. Gardner gives you a dimension that Cabrera doesn’t with is speed, but Melky has a FAR superior arm. Both will play, both will watch and hopefully both will contribute.
I think Gammons meant to say Hanson is the best sey up man at the St. John’s Alumni meeting.
I think that it would be pretty hypocritical of Cashman to enter into contract talks in the middle of the season considering the fact that he wouldn’t do that with Mo and Posada last year.
And Pete, can you ask Hank to tell the Daily News that I should shut up and start winning the lottery? Apparently anything he tells the press comes true.
I think we should have the presidential candidates debate Melky vs. Gardner.
It’s interesting that SJ spoke about overvaluing Horne, McCutchen, and and Gardner. Brings up an interesting question as to whether 25-6 is “too old” to be a prospect, or if some guys really do take more time.
Horne’s injuries are downright alarming to me, though.
Abraham’s always wrong about stuff like this. Cashman’s gone.
El regalo original que, en esta ocasi?n, quiero mostrarte, es un regalo para mujeres en lugar de para hombres aunque por supuesto puede haber excepciones as? que dir? que es principalmente para mujeres.