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AL and NL All-Stars teams revealed; Giambi and Mussina are snubbed

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 06, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

k1ql4blramyr5fj8lbkq.gifAMERICAN LEAGUE STARTERS

First base: Kevin Youkilis (Boston)
Second base: Dustin Pedroia (Boston)
Shortstop: Derek Jeter (New York)
Third base: Alex Rodriguez (New York)
Catcher: Joe Mauer (Minnesota)
Outfield: Josh Hamilton (Texas)
Outfield: Manny Ramirez (Boston)
Outfield: Ichiro Suzuki (Seattle)
DH: David Ortiz (Boston) *

Pitchers:
Mariano Rivera (New York)
Scott Kazmir (Tampa Bay)
George Sherill (Baltimore)
Roy Halladay (Toronto)
Jonathan Papelbon (Boston)
Justin Duchscherer (Oakland)
Joe Nathan (Minnesota)
Joakim Soria (Royals)
Cliff Lee (Indians)
Francisco Rodriguez (Los Angeles)
Ervin Santana (Los Angeles)
Joe Saunders (Los Angeles)

Reserves:
J.D. Drew (Boston)
Jason Varitek (Boston)
Joe Crede (Chicago)
Carlos Quentin (Chicago)
Grady Sizemore (Cleveland)
Carlos Guillen (Detroit)
Justin Morneau (Minnesota)
Milton Bradley (Texas)
Ian Kinsler (Texas)
Michael Young (Texas)
Dioner Navarro (Tampa Bay)

NATIONAL LEAGUE STARTERS

First base: Lance Berkman (Houston)
Second base: Chase Utley (Philadelphia)
Shortstop: Hanley Ramirez (Florida)
Third base: Chipper Jones (Atlanta) *
Catcher: Geovany Soto (Chicago)
Outfield: Ryan Braun (Milwaukee)
Outfield: Alfonso Soriano (Chicago) *
Outfield: Kosuke Fukudome (Chicago)

Pitchers:
Aaron Cook (Colorado)
Tim Lincecum (San Francisco)
Dan Haren (Arizona)
Ben Sheets (Milwaukee)
Carlos Zambrano (Chicago)
Brandon Webb (Arizona)
Ryan Dempster (Chicago)
Brian Wilson (San Francisco)
Edinson Volquez (Cincinnati)
Kerry Wood (Chicago)
Brad Lidge (Philadelphia)
Billy Wagner (New York)

Reserves:
Brian McCann (Atlanta)
Aramis Ramirez (Chicago)
Matt Holiday (Colorado)
Dan Uggla (Florida)
Miguel Tejada (Houston)
Russell Martin (Los Angeles)
Nate McLouth (Pittsburgh)
Albert Pujols (St. Louis)
Ryan Ludwick (St. Louis)
Adrian Gonzalez (San Diego)
Cristian Guzman (Washington)

* Injured, may be replaced on team.

Analysis: Jason Varitek? Really? Well he is hitting .219/.301/.360 after all. … Bradley will be the AL DH. … Bad day for the Mets as they get one pick and Scott Kazmir goes for Tampa Bay. … Waiting to see who the “Final Vote” candidates are.

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207 Responses to “AL and NL All-Stars teams revealed; Giambi and Mussina are snubbed”

  1. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 July 6th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    Alex, Mauer and Hamilton deserve it. Not sure about some of the others, but then I can only speak for myself

  2. jennifer- I got your back Girardi July 6th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    So how many hours till than announce the pitchers?

  3. Rob Thompson July 6th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    Excuse me while I throw up in my mouth for the next 8 days. Not only is the doofus baldy managing the AL team but we have to have 4, count ‘em 4 all stars from the Sox. Embarrasing. We are supposed to be the dominant team with the biggest payroll. We should be better, not them. Thank god for Alex and Jeter so we can at least save some face. If he doesn’t pick Mussina, Joba and Mo I’m going lose it.

  4. Sean July 6th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    What are the odds of Moose making the team?

  5. JoeT 28 in 09!! July 6th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    Giambi should start at DH…. and if we hit Manny a few more times tonight maybe we can replace him too :)

  6. Stephen M July 6th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    They say Milton Bradley will start as DH.

  7. JR Yankees July 6th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    My only problem is with Pedroia at 2B. Kinsler deserved it so much more. Other than that, Jeter probably shouldn’t be there given this is his lowest offensive production to date and his range has been shrinking by day. However, given this is the last year at Yankee Stadium, I have no problem with him going.

  8. Mark (Brett has arrived) July 6th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    There is no way little Dustin should be starting, but also Jeter probably shouldn’t be starting over Michael Young.

  9. Fran July 6th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    “If he doesn’t pick Mussina, Joba and Mo I’m going lose it.”

    I don’t expect Joba to be on the team. But Mo will and hopefully Moose as well

  10. tim boat July 6th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    who really cares if there’s 4 guys from Boston starting? it’s (3 in reality since Ortiz is hurt). maybe Giambi can make it as the DH. but so what if there are a bunch of Red Sox on the team. those guys have earned it a lot more than Jeter.

  11. darkmoonfire July 6th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Pedroia — conclusive proof that fan voting isn’t a good idea.

    Should have been Kinsler.

  12. JoeT 28 in 09!! July 6th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Joba’s not going to make the team, but no one could argue if he did. 2.22 ERA, 12 holds i think? dominant out of the pen and the transition to starting has been mostly smooth sailing

  13. Jeff July 6th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    Milton Bradley has to be the dh his numbers are ridiculous.

  14. DOC July 6th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    “Pedroia — conclusive proof that fan voting isn’t a good idea.”

    I agree, but it’s not like Jeter is anything special this year at all either. That said, I’m not sure which shortstop has been any better.

  15. JR Yankees July 6th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Tim,
    I agree, who cares that a bunch of Red Sox are starting, but Pedroia is not deserving of it. Some could also make a case for Youkilis too but I have no problem other than 2B.

  16. RayBlay July 6th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    omg that impersonating character again?? they cannot be serious

  17. JoeT 28 in 09!! July 6th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    RayBlay – Frank Caliendo? who’s he impersonating?

  18. Stephen M July 6th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    I don’t think any Yankee/Jeter fan should be complaining about the perils of fan voting this year.

  19. Peter Rabbit July 6th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    Does the alternate DH automatically go to the second most popular voted player?

  20. mel July 6th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    I don’t have a problem with the Boston guys starting. They’re good players having good years (well not Ortiz). I just hope that Pedroia (and I’m assuming Papelbon) just respect the Stadium and don’t desecrate it with their foul comments and behavior. They should remember that they’re guests in the house that Ruth built.

  21. Matt July 6th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Pedroia shouldn’t be starting but he definitely deserves to be on the team. If Varitek won the voting it would have been conclusive proof against fan voting.

  22. RayBlay July 6th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    idk, i had the picture-in-picture and was watching tennis at the time, but i saw him advertising some dish satellite thing

  23. BG July 6th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    A ton of guys deserve it before Joba. Mo’s gotta be a lock. Mussina and Giambi both made cases that they merit consideration, but I don’t view either as locks. Its also hard to really imagine that 5 Yankees should make the team given how mediocre the team is playing as a whole.

  24. JoeT 28 in 09!! July 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    wow Soriano snuck in there – the rest is 100% what I (and i’m sure everyone else) expected

  25. JoeT 28 in 09!! July 6th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    not saying he doesn’t deserve it, i just thought Griffey was up there in the fan voting

  26. Dave July 6th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Um, Youkilis is very deserving of this selection. He is OPS’ing .910 (Giambi is better by 28 points but Youks has about 40 more PA than Jason) and don’t forget about the Gold Glove calibur defense he brings as well.

    Truthfully, I wish no Red Sox were selected. I’d much rather have them all rested up and ready for the 2nd half of the season.

  27. BG July 6th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    “I don’t think any Yankee/Jeter fan should be complaining about the perils of fan voting this year.”

    Jeter’s not having a very good offensive year, but I really can’t think of a SS in the AL that is much more deserving this year.

  28. Chrissy July 6th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    Happy Jeets and A-Rod are in there, but the ASG is a popularity vote.

  29. DOC July 6th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    Starting a comment with “um” is such a bitchy thing to do.

  30. Dr. J July 6th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    Ponson as one of the reserves?

  31. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 July 6th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Where’s Volquez?

  32. Keith July 6th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Rays were down 2-0 then suddenly ahead 5-2. Incredible.
    They continue to put up numbers with 2 outs and just don’t quit.

  33. Patrick â„¢ July 6th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    The OF should be Damon, Hamilton, Bradley IMO.

    Pedroia doesn’t deserve it, Kinsler should be in there.

  34. DOC July 6th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    “They continue to put up numbers with 2 outs and just don’t quit.”

    And they’re scoring against that former first-round KC pick who we got two runs off of.

  35. jennifer- I got your back Girardi July 6th, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Why are they taking so long to announce the pitchers?

  36. Dan July 6th, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Well at least Matt has something of a clue. Varitek would be an embarrassing fan selection. Pedroia absolutely deserves it. 16 errors of Lugo-level butchery don’t matter?

    It just infuriates you people that the little cocky guy with the long swing is actually a pretty damn good player.

  37. Confucius July 6th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    Geeze. We may get it bad, but not as bad as the Mets. Gotta love the Braves network poking fun at their single all-star selection.

  38. Fran July 6th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Wagner is the ony Met on the team.

  39. Kelli in Conn. July 6th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Kinsler should have been a starter but Pedroia’s contractual agreement with the NY State Lottery had to be given high consideration.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD_bqXMO5aY

  40. JoeT 28 in 09!! July 6th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    wow – Billy Wagner…. the lone Met

  41. RayBlay July 6th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Giambi didn’t make it, he’s part of the final vote

  42. mel July 6th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    No Johan?

  43. RayBlay July 6th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    david wright is also on the final vote in case billy wagner wants some company, but i voted for aaron rowand

  44. Frank July 6th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Dustin Pedroia? Obvious who should be here.

    Derek Jeter? Think Michael Young.

    David Ortiz hasn’t played a game since mid May. I guess Chien-Ming Wang should be on the roster too!

    Carlos Quentin should be in the outfield.

    The All-Star voting is a joke. And it’s a crime that it actually has consequences.

  45. Glenn July 6th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Reserves are announced next followed by the pitchers. Injuries (Ortiz) will see changes made.
    Same thing every year.

  46. Yankee lover July 6th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Big Yankee fan of course, I have no problem with Red Sox being on the team, quite frankly, look at the standings, they are better. I`m old school and wish the fans had only a partial vote, with managers, players, and GM`s being able to vote.
    Joba shouldnt make it, Moose should and Mariano should. Shocked that Gods gift Reyes didnt make it. Did anyone read that dopey column written by the guy who invented baseball Mike Lupica in the news today? He says some stupid stuff. I would love to allow Jeter to play in the weak NL and see what #`s he throws up. Look at the NL west, the winner of that division can win it being under 500. Must be nice, and in interleague play AL dominated again.

  47. JoeT 28 in 09!! July 6th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    show me some Moose love at least

  48. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 July 6th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Yeah Mo!

    Come on Mussina!

  49. jennifer- I got your back Girardi July 6th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Where the heck is mooose?

  50. The Fallen Phoenix July 6th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Santana got squeezed – it’s really easy to make a case for him, but it’s very, very hard to make a case against any of the pitchers who were selected. He was simply a victim of the numbers crunch.

    According to BP’s SNLVAR (support neutral lineup adjusted pitching value above replacement), Santana is the 10th best starter in the NL, behind (in order): Volquez, Sheets, Lincecum, Haren, Hamels, Hudson, Zambrano, Peavy, Lohse, and Cook.

    That Hamels didn’t make the team is actually the biggest surprise to me; I think he deserved it over Zambrano (although Cubs are the best team in the NL, so…). Webb also made it partly on reputation, partly on his incredible first month and a half (he’s slipped significantly since then).

    Also shocked McCann didn’t get the votes to start over Sovo; he’s been the best catcher in the bigs this year. But again, that’s Chicago fans making noise, and again, it’s understandable considering where the Cubs are in the standings.

  51. S.A.- I still believe in this team, but can the offense stop being so offensive? July 6th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    Yay Mo!

    Moose?

  52. dont retire 21 July 6th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    no moose

  53. JoeT 28 in 09!! July 6th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    NO MOOSE!?!?!?! BOOOOOOOOO

  54. jennifer- I got your back Girardi July 6th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    No mussina F YOU TERRY!!

  55. S.A.- I still believe in this team, but can the offense stop being so offensive? July 6th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    No Mooooooooose. :(

  56. jennifer- I got your back Girardi July 6th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    fairy tek the reserve? what a joke!

  57. DOC July 6th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Oh great, so we get to watch some random KC closer at Yankee Stadium rather than Moose.

  58. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 July 6th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    …Three Angels and no Moose/ So not fair.

    ….JASON VARITEK?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

  59. JoeT 28 in 09!! July 6th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    OMG… TEK!?!?! ARE YOU F’N KIDDING ME!!!!! TEK IS THE WORST PLAYER IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES – AWFULLLLLLLL

  60. RayBlay July 6th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    sizemore is hitting .266?? this whole roster is ridiculous

  61. Stephen M July 6th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Mussina is a victim of the rules. With Mo, Jeter and Rodriguez in, he wasn’t going to get it since every team needs to be represented.

  62. JoeT 28 in 09!! July 6th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    I hope we light up Wakefield like a damn Christmas tree tonight….. screw Terry – this is terrible

  63. RayBlay July 6th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    lol dioner navarro used to be in our farm

  64. gayle July 6th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Im sorry no Moose is a joke ands Jason varitek goes in the joke category as well but I guess when you win the World Series your mnanager can select you.

  65. jennifer- I got your back Girardi July 6th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    How the hell does he leave Mussina off!

  66. mel July 6th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Two Angel starters and no Moose?

  67. Mark (Brett has arrived) July 6th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Im watching tennis, but wait your telling me Jason Varitek made it over Joe Mauer??????????????????????/

  68. RayBlay July 6th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    lol varitek is hitting .219 hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  69. jennifer- I got your back Girardi July 6th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    rules in place? what a joke? how many angels players did you pick you JERK!

  70. Pocono Chris July 6th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Did Navarro make it?

  71. Brian L July 6th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    No Moose, wow that is incredible. All star voting is a complete joke. I’m not gonna say Francona was biased, but Mussina should have made this team. At his age, with what he has done? Terrible. Meanwhile, remember Dioner Navarro? Former Yankee catcher prospect, made the team. Good for him.

  72. Dave July 6th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    haha why do you guys care about who gets voted to the All Star game?

  73. jennifer- I got your back Girardi July 6th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Stephen M

    BS a victim of the rules. 3 angels pitchers!

  74. RayBlay July 6th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    varitek’s ops+ is 73
    im dyingggggg

  75. ray (sox fan) July 6th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    It is a point well made that Kinsler has better stats than Pedroia.

    As long as the fans determine who is starting the most deserving player is not always selected. Certainly not the first time that has happened and not the last either.

    If one argues that Kinsler should be starting over Pedroia, one probably ought to make the same argument that Michael Young should start over Jeter because he has better stats than Jeter.

  76. Fran July 6th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    I really think Moose should have been picked, but at least Francona didn’t put Beckett on either.

  77. DOC July 6th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    I want to punch Francona in the face right now. Just seeing him on our field pisses me off.

  78. 12345 July 6th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    jason varitek? omg that is rdiculous. wheres mike mussina. wow what a farce.

  79. 86w183 July 6th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    I’m on the Kinsler and Young for Pedroia and Jeter bandwagon but the fans didn’t totally screw this up.

    Damon? It can’t only be about batting average and he doesn’t even warrant consideration in any other category.

    Mo’s inclusion was obvious, but Mussina was a close call that could have gone either way. Varitek is a comical selection… please boo the crap out of him!

    Betcha a nickel Giambi replaces Ortiz on the roster.

  80. The Fallen Phoenix July 6th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    That’s disgusting. Jason Varitek has NO business being on this All Star roster, absolutely none.

    I hate to say it, but the Moose snub *is* reasonable. Granted, he has the wins, but the raw numbers suggest he’s not really among the top ten starters in the AL. I mean, who are you going to drop for him? Kazmir? Halladay? The Duke? Lee? Ervin? Saunders? They’ve all been better pitchers than Moose this year when you get past the numbers.

    And I’m a huge Moose fan, so it certainly hurts me to type that.

    But again, Varitek has absolutely ZERO business being on this roster. He’s arguably the worst catcher in his DIVISION, let alone compared to the rest of the AL.

  81. Deb July 6th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    No Moose..that is just not right :(

    Now, here’s Francona with excuses. At least show backbone about the picks and don’t blame the rules for who you picked.

    Enjoy the state fair Moose… WE all know you deserved the ASG.

  82. JoeT 28 in 09!! VOTE GIAMBI - TERRY'S WORSE THEN CASHMAN!! July 6th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    Giambi has to make the team in ortiz’s place…. go vote!!

  83. Stephen M July 6th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    Jennifer,
    But how many were player picks and how many were Francona’s? Tito has to use his picks to make sure every team is represented.

  84. jennifer- I got your back Girardi July 6th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    Hey Pete, tell Moose that the fans are just as ticked as he is. There is no question that he should have made the team. Tied for 2nd league lead in wins. NO QUESTION! Terry is a joke!

  85. Eugie July 6th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    Jason Varitek has to be the biggest joke on there.

  86. Fran July 6th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    JoeT – where do we go to vote for the extra player?

  87. DOC July 6th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Statistically speaking, I honestly don’t even think Moose should have made it, but COME ON. It’s probably his last year, he’s come back from an awful 2007, it’s the last year at Yankee Stadium. Let him pitch in front of his home crowd rather than letting some randoms from the Angels on the team. No disrespect to what Saunders and Santana have done, but when you have Varitek on your team, it’s not exactly like we’re going strictly by statistics anyway.

  88. John July 6th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    How in GOD’S NAME did that waster Varitek get “voted in” by the players? He is batting .219. Are you KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because he is a good leader? What the *bleeping* *bleep* does that have to do with the ALL STAR game? Freaking joke. When they say “players” do they mean “players within a three mile radius of Fenway?
    And no Moose? That’s an absolute joke. The guy will probably never have another chance to pitch in an All Star game and will certainly never have a chance to play in an All Star game at Yankee Stadium. Nice Job there Tito, you *bleeping* waste.

  89. Chief July 6th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    varitek made it as a reserve? is francona joking? he’s hittn .219 wit a .301 OBP with 7 HRs. Wow, just wow

  90. mel July 6th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    I hope Joba and the team are as indignant as us. :)

  91. gayle July 6th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Not just putting this on Yankees players being left off BUT how unreal that the only Rays players on the team are Kazmir and Navaro that is also a complete joke.

    Im sorry the idea that you have to have 1 player for each team is unreal and makes this a total farce if it really does mean somthing

  92. RayBlay July 6th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    can we have some kind of protest about this varitek thing… like send mass emails to bud selig or st… this is just ridiculous

  93. Say it ain't so July 6th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    I’d love to hear his straight-faced explanation of leaving Mussina off and then taking, haha, Varitek.

  94. Mark (Brett has arrived) July 6th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Don’t worry Moose can thank Francona in his hall of fame speech.

  95. The Fallen Phoenix July 6th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    *They’ve all been better pitchers than Moose this year when you get past the wins, sorry.

    But seriously, Jason Varitek? Jason Varitek? It’s just absurd.

    Damon’s played good defense in addition to providing consistent offense all year, so there is certainly a case to be made for him. Not that he should be on the team, mind you, but there is a legitimate case to be made for him aside from batting average.

    But it’s the Crede and (especially) Varitek choices that get me.

  96. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 July 6th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Where can you vote for the final vote?

  97. matt July 6th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    WOW!!! TEK! what a tool, he will probably wear his evil knievel suit so people will be distracted by his backwards k’s….

  98. JoeT 28 in 09!! VOTE GIAMBI - TERRY'S WORSE THEN CASHMAN!! July 6th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Ray – given the option of the Rangers middle-infield vs Pedroia and Jeter – i think many would choose the Rangers.

    Fans voting is retarded, it’s a popularity contest. Lets all remember that Tek was going to START this game up until a couple of weeks ago. I thought I heard them say that Tek was selected by the players which just proves how f’n stupid the players must be. Posada with one arm (literally if you ripped it off) is better the “THE CAPTAIN!!.” Tek is awful and if it wasn’t for ESPN everyone would know it.

  99. BBB July 6th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Actually its not Francona’s fault the useless Vagitek made it, the players voted him in. Time for MLB to administer some random drug tests, stat!

  100. AndrewYF July 6th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Terry Francona probably just made the most embarrassing All-Star selection in history by picking Jason Varitek as a reserve. There are SO many other, better options. Like anyone else in baseball.

  101. Blargh July 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Does it say something about AL starting pitchers or NL closers that I count the AL pitchers list having 6 closers and the NL has 4? And that Brian Wilson doesn’t stand out much to me (relative to Wagner/Lidge/Wood)?

  102. yewnork July 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    The link for the “final vote” is up. Giambi is a choice. Lets get him in the game.
    http://mlb.mlb.com/index.jsp

  103. BBB July 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Did I miss the AL final man ballot? The Big G better be on it!!!

  104. Andrew (Scott Proctor's Arm) July 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    I love Varitek’s .661 OPS. Longoria should’ve gotten more respect. He leads the best team in baseball in HR and RBI. What a joke.

    The Red Sox already had six members before Varitek. He wasn’t needed, at all.

  105. mel July 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    I agree with DOC, Moose was borderline deserving but he’s an AL stalwart. The COOL thing to do would be to pick him, but I’m sure Moose isn’t crying about it.

  106. Raj July 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    I am no Red Sox fan and agree that I don’t think Varitek should be on the team, but the playes voted him in, not the fans or Francona

    I do also think Moose should be on the team and hopefully Giambi gets the final vote

  107. Dan July 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    I can’t defend Varitek’s selection but the fact that is it ticks off so many Yankee fans makes it a great one.

    Three starters (should have been 4) from the Sox at the final All-Star game in the Bronx. Terry Francona in the manager’s office. No Mussina, and with any luck, no GiamBALCO.

    Life is sweet.

    And really, Yankee fans, what do you care who is on the roster. Its not as if a win is going to give the Yankees home field advantage in the World Series.

  108. Timmy Lupus July 6th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    This is BS. Take a look at the last 2 months Saunders, and santana have been getting worse, and Moose has been better than both of them.

  109. BBB July 6th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    OK time to forget about Fairytek and go VOTE FOR THE ‘STACHE now!!!

  110. JoeT 28 in 09!! VOTE GIAMBI - TERRY'S WORSE THEN CASHMAN!! July 6th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    voting is at MLB.com I believe – vote for GIAMBI!!

    You know what though, screw this, this is one game – wait until late September when Moose shuts down the Sox again and the Yankees make the playoffs while Terry can go home and cry during the off season

  111. John July 6th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    I can’t stand Pedroia, he is my least favorite player in baseball, he just annoys me, but I don’t have a problem with him starting since he deserves to be on the team. As far as Jeter, certainly, statistcally, Young should be starting, but Jeter would be on the team anyway (not many shortstops doing much this year in the AL) and, I mean, come on, THIS is the All Star Game at Yankee Stadium. Jeter could be hitting .250 and he should make it.
    I still can’t get over Varitek. I swear that freakin three foot wide C on his chest has some sort of evil power that makes people think his “leadership” translates into being a good player, but Moose being left off is a joke when you consider three pitchers made it from the Angels. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

  112. RayBlay July 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    look at it this way, johnny damon is 6th in the league in hitting
    if jason varitek had enough plate appearances, he would be 82nd in the league in hitting
    makes sense, right?

  113. The Fallen Phoenix July 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    Honestly, Evan Longoria should have gotten a nod over Joe Crede. And it’s not like the White Sox needed another representative; yes, I understand that they’re in first, but they already have Quentin on the roster, and…well, Danks *should* be on that roster, although again, it’s a numbers crunch (I guess perhaps I leave off Saunders for Danks).

    But Jason Varitek…wow. Just, wow. CHAD MOELLER has a better VORP than Varitek. CHAD MOELLER! Varitek ranks 34th among catchers in VORP. It’s unbelievable. Just unbelievable.

  114. Chief July 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    the all star voting for the starting lineups is a joke. its a popularity contest. so is the final vote thing. its all a joke.

  115. Rob Thompson July 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    This is the most glaring homer move in the history of baseball. This is what happens when you let a Red Sock manage – all the power goes to his head. Seriously, somebody get me that Spectre senator to investigate.

    He is obviously mocking the game. Torre would never have pulled a stunt like this.

  116. BBB July 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    Moose is too good for the All-Star Game anyway. He’d rather spend that time in pursuit of even more intellectual superiority over everyone in the world than he already holds.

  117. Rob July 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    Since the players started voting for their personal All-Star selections, the manager has had fewer decisions to make and usually chooses players on the teams that dont already have a representative.

    The telecast said that Varitek was voted in by the players and not by Francona so as much as I hate him being there as well, as sophisticated fans, you cant blame Francona for that decision

  118. Andrew (Scott Proctor's Arm) July 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    I believe Varitek was voted by the players, but it still doesn’t make it right.

  119. Chief July 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    yea longoria should have gotten that reserve spot over crede

  120. LathamJoe July 6th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I can rationalize the fairness in picking those pitchers selected ahead of Moose…but JASON VARITEK? I actually like Francona, but this selection is totally wrong!

  121. SJ44 July 6th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    If Varitek had any class, he would decline the selection.

    Given his year to date, it takes brass one’s to get introduced as an “all star”.

    Its why I don’t get too uptight about the ASG. The whole thing is a joke.

    From the voting, to the stupid HR Derby, where we are subjected to 4 hours of Chris Berman, to the winning team securing home field advantage to their league, Bud Selig has ruined the ASG.

    Now we have a catcher who can’t throw, can’t hit .220, and is “an All Star”.

    What a joke.

  122. DOC July 6th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    Wow, a Red Sox fan trolling a Yankee blog. I don’t think you get much more pathetic than that. Do you really have nothing better to do on a holiday weekend? Really?

    And nah, I don’t think Moose is crying over it. After all, he sounded a little to excited about that county fair. ;) It’s just sad that while Jason Varitek gets a place on the team due to everything he’s done in his career, Moose doesn’t get his, especially since I doubt he’s going to have as good of a first half ever again (assuming he continues to play).

  123. mel July 6th, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Raj,

    Tek’s a reserve. The fans had nothing to do with that one.

  124. BBFan July 6th, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    You can not blame Francona for Veritek selection. He was selected by the players.

    Even in the case of pitchers, you can not blame Francona for not selecting Mussina. The selctions were made before yesterday’s game, his ERA was not that great relatively and Francona has the tough Job of selecting one from each team.

    As Yankee fans we can cry foul, but Francona did the best under the cricumstances.

  125. Al from BK July 6th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    There should be an MLB internal investigation of Francona. Jason Varitek batting slightly above the Mendoza line is an All-star tisk tisk. Dont worry Giambi is going to have to replace Big-fatty on the roster I doubt Francona is stupid enough to risk injuring the gem of Boston. The Boston bias strikes again Pedroia is a starting 2B at the final all star game at Yankee stadium. This is particularly offensive because if Cano was having a Cano year he would be starting, even with the bad start he is head and shoulders above that garden gnome. Another travesty Morneau should be starting over Cry baby Youkilis this disgusts me damn you MLB, damn fan-voting!

  126. Matt July 6th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    That’s total BS that Mussina didn’t make it! I mean, come on, George Sherill!? Ervin Santana!? Joe Saunders!?

  127. Jim July 6th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    Disappointed that Moose didn’t make it, but heck, maybe not making it gives him some rest to have a second half as good as his first. The only problem I have with the team is Varitek. I have no problem with Pedroia, he’s only batting 17 points less than Kinsler and has made 11 less errors. Sure, I don’t like the Red Sox, but at least I’ll give credit where credit is do. 1B….. Youk and Morneau’s stats are almost identical, so no problem there.

  128. Timmy Lupus July 6th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    BBFan, take a look at the game logs. Moose has been better than both Angels pitchers since April. Yet they’re on there and Moose isn’t

  129. 86w183 July 6th, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    Go easy on Francona, the players chose Variprick… the fans sure wouldn’t have done something that stupid.

    It’s fine to think Mussina shoud be there, but who would you take off? To me the only argument for Mussina would be Ervin Santana who is 9-3 with a slightly better ERA. It would have been a nice touch to put him on, though.

    Since the game now means something (which is assinine but true) they should either scrap the one player per team requirement or expand the rosters… then you wouldn’t have to take Guillen over Evan Longoria for example.

  130. Dan is not to bright July 6th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    I wonder about fans who post on the enemy team blogs to try to get a rise out of people. Is that how you pass your time Dan? Wow, you must be busy.
    I post on this blog, but I`m a YANKEE fan and we talk Yankees. Thats my purpose. Regarding your comments.
    Varitek is terrible this year, and Francona looks like a baby wipe by putting him on the team, I`m sure proud Varetik is uneasy making the team.
    The Red Sox are enjoying some success lately, but its the exception for them not the norm. There is no challenging the success of the Yankees or the over dominance the Yanks have had over the Red Sox. Enjoy it now, it will not last.

  131. Andrew July 6th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    “The players selected these reserves: Bradley, catcher Varitek and outfielder Drew, first baseman Justin Morneau of the Twins, second baseman Ian Kinsler and shortstop Michael Young of the Rangers, third baseman Joe Crede and outfielder Carlos Quentin of the White Sox and outfielder Grady Sizemore of the Indians. ”
    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....6&
    content_id=3076848&vkey=allstar2008&fext=.jsp

    it was the players that chose Varitek,how pathetic is that?

  132. DOC July 6th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    “To me the only argument for Mussina would be Ervin Santana who is 9-3 with a slightly better ERA”

    Take off Santana, Sherrill, or the no-name Kansas City closer. Oh wait, even though now the game “counts,” we still have to have a representative from every team.

  133. mark - Play Moeller! Yankees can win it all with the players they have. July 6th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    I could have thrown up when I saw all the Red Sox players chosen as alternates.

    What an insult. Bigger insult that Mussina wasn’t chosen.

  134. Rob Thompson July 6th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Seriously though. I bet even Varitek is pissed at “The NOSE Man” for humiliating him like this.

    Wasn’t there some incentive that was placed in his contract – or maybe it was Schilling too – that if he made the team he would get an extra bonus? Maybe he said to “The Nose Man” – I’ll hack it up with you if you select me?

    Hopefully, MLB will investigate this – follow the money!!!

  135. sw July 6th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Mussina never gets any breaks, it’s the story of his career. When Torre was putting 8 Yankees on the AS roster, he never put Moose in either.

  136. Global Warming July 6th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    Its a disgrace Varitek made the team.

    3 Catchers? Really?

  137. jennifer- I got your back Girardi July 6th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    George Sherrill

    and his FIVE BLOWN SAVES what a joke!

  138. BBB July 6th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    SJ44, you’re absolutely right. But we all already know Varitek doesn’t have any class; remember this is the same punk who hits people in the face while his own face is protected by a catchers mask. It’s like a wrestler starting a catfight or something, lol.

    I actually think it is kind of funny that he got voted in, maybe the players think they are doing him a favor, but in the end it will be humiliating for him at the game when his stats are displayed across the bottom of the screen next to everyone else’s. What’s the over/under on how many bases will be stolen by him while he is in? Actually he might not even play, if I were him I’d beg Francona not to play me, just to avoid the embarrassment of the .219 avg LOL

  139. Blargh July 6th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    Soria’s been brilliant this year; almost as good as Mo. He definitely deserves being on the team.

  140. Chief July 6th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    hey saunders, santana, and sherrill deserved their spots

  141. jennifer- I got your back Girardi July 6th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    ANDREW, that is cause they hate the Yankees and Yankee fans and want to tweak us, by having so many soxs at the game.

  142. BBB July 6th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    “or the no-name Kansas City closer.”

    Hey, that “no name Kansas City closer” is one of the best in the league and deserves to be there. Let’s not be like Clint Hurdle and hype names above talent now (Webb to start over Lincecum? LOL)

  143. BBB July 6th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    “that is cause they hate the Yankees and Yankee fans and want to tweak us, by having so many soxs at the game.”

    haha, that probably is why, and it is hilarious that we are on their minds like that! Here are these professional athletes making millions, and they’re sweating little old us. lmao, what a bunch of winners!

  144. Chief July 6th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    i love that the mets have only one player! lol

  145. Alan July 6th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Varitek’s selection has made an absolute farce out of the All Star game.
    People all over the country will be rolling on the floor laughing when the goof comes to the plate with his silly “C” on his uniform. :-) :-) :-)

  146. DOC July 6th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    “Let’s not be like Clint Hurdle and hype names above talent now”

    But see, that’s the problem. The ASG wants to have one foot in both worlds. If they’re going to place some value in “clout” (e.g. Varitek, Webb starting), then you’ve got to give the edge to the players with clout when making close decisions (e.g. Moose vs. Santana).

    If they’re going to base All-Star selections strictly on statistics, then I’m all for it and openly admit Moose technically wouldn’t deserve to go. But they’re not and haven’t been doing that for years, so I think it’s fair to say Moose was snubbed.

  147. Mike July 6th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    The Varitek is going to in contention for the worst All-Star selection in the history of sports. The only good thing about it is that its so ridiculous that it might finally get them to change this stupid selection system they have.

  148. Lampchop Louie July 6th, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Rob Thompson ;

    In case you’re curious, the bench coach on the Yankees is Rob THOMSON.

  149. Espresso July 6th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    If what we hear in the press from Moose is how he really is, then he probably doesn’t care whether he’s selected or not. He shouldn’t. How many people watch SC then vote. The talking heads at ESPN wouldn’t know a baseball if left
    stitch marks in their face.

    I’m with everyone else, Kinsler should have been the starter. Probably should be Young too, but at least their #s are similar. And my Grandma with her sciatica is a better catcher than captain dirt bag.

    What ever I like watching the game, but it should either have fan voting or it should decide home field. I think the NL has the better roster.

  150. joe July 6th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    just goes to show that the red sox have more passionate fans than the yankees. they went out and voted for their team wether they deserved to be on the team or not. (like varitek…no business even being mentioned for the all star) Whereas the yankee fans couldn’t care less to vote for their own players.

  151. Rob Thompson July 6th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    Lampchop Louie

    “In case you’re curious, the bench coach on the Yankees is Rob THOMSON.”

    I know – I loved it when they named him coach – good for the name – not the same spelling but I’m sure we’re related somewhere down the line :)

  152. Doris From Rego Park July 6th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    you can always tell a true person’s basbeall IQ by how they (over)react to the final playes chosen.

  153. Rob Thompson July 6th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Listening to the Rays vs. Royals game on MLB audio. Their announcers are just ripping “FRANCOMA” for selecting Varitek.

  154. Espresso July 6th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    I don’t think that Sox fans are more passionate, but that Yankees fans have more class and are more likely to vote for the player who deserves it.

  155. Tiki July 6th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    I’m as shocked as everyone here that Varitek is in this game but if it’s true that the players made that decision than I can’t complain – BUT I WANT TO SCREAM! It’s too bad Jorge is hurt-

  156. Angel {insert random statement plus multiple !!!!!'s here} July 6th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    Varitek? Is Francona for real?

  157. randy l July 6th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    one way to keep a red sox manager from picking all star players is to keep him from winning the american league title.

    tonight would be a good place to start. go joba.

  158. Timmy Lupus July 6th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Moose Since May 3rd, 8-3, ERA 3.13, 51K, Whip 1.029
    Santana Since May 5th, 4-3, ERA 3.7, 77K, Whip 1.160
    Saunder Since May 4th, 7-4, ERA 3.6, 38K, Whip 1.271

    Take away the shakey April Moose had, and he’s been superior.

  159. Angel {insert random statement plus multiple !!!!!'s here} July 6th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    How’s your wife, Doris.

  160. BBB July 6th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    I agree, DOC. They are very contradictory in their selection terms; sometimes it’s based on notoriety, other times it’s stats. I don’t know how they could make things more uniform, though. I guess by no longer allowing three different groups (fans, players, mgr) to make the choices? Since all 3 groups probably vote based on different things.

    But Soria definitely deserves to be there though. All these years, people love to jump the gun and call overhyped losers like Brad Lidge “the next Mo.” Well finally here comes someone (Soria) who actually has Mo Lite-like potential…and nobody ever talks about him! He is the best closer in the league not named Rivera and it isnt particularly close between him and anyone else, imo. I hope he gets to pitch the 8th setting up Mo for the save.

  161. Frank July 6th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    I know people are pissed at the Varitek selection…

    But David Ortiz still hasn’t swung a bat since mid May.

    Maybe Barry Bonds should make the NL team? He’s played about as much baseball.

  162. BBB July 6th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    I think what will inevitably happen is one of the AL SP’s will pitch the Sunday before the game and will have to be replaced, then Moose will be invited and he will turn the offer down.

  163. Dan May not be too bright but he CAN READ July 6th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    Yeah, buddy, Francona is a “baby wipe” because the PLAYERS picked Tek. It just kills you pathetic losers that Francona is managing the ASG in Yankee Stadium, and poor little Joe G. is more likely to be fired than to manage one anytime soon.

    “The Red Sox are enjoying some success lately, but its the exception for them not the norm. There is no challenging the success of the Yankees or the over dominance the Yanks have had over the Red Sox. Enjoy it now, it will not last.”

    “over dominance” – thanks for demonstrating the overwhelming intelligence of a Yankee fan.

    As for “enjoy it now, it will not last” – not there’s a joke. How are the big three pitchers working out for you? How do you like Lester, Buchholz and Masterson so far? You enjoying Jeter’s decline? Posada’s shoulder (four more years, have fun when he’s 38-39-40)? What do you think of Ellsbury’s 35 steals and excellent defense at three outfield positions?

    If you think that the Yankees are closer to regaining some semblance of “dominance” than the Sox are to creating the dynasty of the decade, then you are even stupider than you already appear.

  164. Frank July 6th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    I would like to start a movement.

    This being the All-Star game… last year at the stadium. Yankees fans should show some class and chear every Red Sox player loudly.

    Except Varitek. When Jason Varitek gets announced… the crowd should erupt in LAUGHTER.

  165. BBFan July 6th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    “Moose has been better than both Angels pitchers since April.”

    April results do count.
    We can not just pick and choose.
    If Yanks offense scored, Mussina would have won another couple of games and he would have been selected.

  166. Angel {insert random statement plus multiple !!!!!'s here} July 6th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    “If you think that the Yankees are closer to regaining some semblance of “dominance” than the Sox are to creating the dynasty of the decade, then you are even stupider than you already appear.”

    Its amazing how much you sound like a pre-2004 Yankee fan with that rant.

    Congratulations. You have become that which you despised.

  167. Frank July 6th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    As for “enjoy it now, it will not last” – not* there’s a joke.

    You know, since we’re counting spelling errors…you had a couple.

    So… thought you should know that.

  168. Rob Thompson July 6th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    Seriously, I have never been more incensed over an all star selection before. The reason for it is that this year is special – it’s supposed to be our year – the last season at Yankee stadium and these “cheaters” from a second class city are trying to crash the party.

  169. Timmy Lupus July 6th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    I’m not really picking and choosing. My Point is over the MAJORITY of the season not just one month Moose has been a better pitcher. I didn’t realize having one great month warrants being in the all-star game.

  170. Un - natural July 6th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Jason Varitek (Boston) All star ? Give me a break …Bring Nomar in PLEASE !

  171. Frank July 6th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    And Manny and Ortiz should be producing MVP quality years for the next decade with their unbelievable diet and exersise routines.

    This Red Sox team only has two maybe three good years left. If you think Moss, Van Every and Lowrie are going to win championships you may be even “stupider” than us Yankees fans. DUH! DOY!!! DUH!

  172. Joe Schmoe 2 July 6th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    I think Francona purposely dissed the Yankees by not putting Moose on the team, the game’s in NY after all. And even though Damon is hurt, they should’ve named him to the team and then replaced him, along with Matsui. Giambi is debatable. He has the HR’s and the RBI’s to be on the team, adding that to the location of the game should be enough to get him on.

    And as much as I hate the Mets, I think they snubbed Wright of a backup spot here.

  173. mark - Play Moeller! Yankees can win it all with the players they have. July 6th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    I don’t think that Sox fans are more passionate, but that Yankees fans have more class and are more likely to vote for the player who deserves it.

    I think there could be something to that. I don’t vote every year but when I have voted I always vote for the player I think is the best player. A lot of times it isn’t a Yankee player.

    Pedroia over Kinsler? Anyone want to explain that one to me?

    Oh never mind. Everyone can vote 25 times (that makes sense!) and the computers in Boston have been red hot.

  174. Dan is not to bright July 6th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Dan,

    keep in mind, the red sox still play in boston, and Boston has always been a NY Wannbee city

    You are a joke.

    And I like Francona- so no problem there.

    27-3 thats the real score

  175. Frank July 6th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    People in Boston have nothing else in their lives except the Sox. That’s honestly how pathetic it is. I’m not trying to bash them that’s just the way it is.

    New Yorkers have so much more going on in the city.

    Every real baseball fan knows the All-Star voting is a joke now that the fans have the power. If I were a Red Sox fan, I’d be embarrassed that my players are at the game in the place of other more deserving players who didn’t have the luxury of a borderline obsessed fanbase.

  176. yanksjh July 6th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    looking at it objectively, I really don’t see Mussina deserving a spot.

    Mussina
    11-6, 3.64

    10-4, 3.22
    9-1, 3.12
    5-4, 2.52
    7-3, 3.21

    The above is just 2 teams that I looked at (White Sox/Red Sox) who have 2 starting pitchers each with better numbers than Mussina. They are Floyd, Danks, Lester, and Matsuzaka. Danks is 5-4, but his ERA is over 1 run better than Mussina. Mussina is having an unexpected year, but not all star worthy

  177. Chris Barrows(PinstripedScranton) July 7th, 2008 at 1:33 am

    While Moose has had a great year, there are a lot of pitchers who did deserve it over him. It’s hard to just throw him in there, as there are deserving starters and relievers, and you can only take so many of each for one inning outings in the All-Star game.

    As for some of the talk of Ian Kinsler, I totally agree. I don’t care if it’s a bunch of Red Sox in the Yankees game, but Pedroia and Varitek should not be in there.

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    (4) ben dit: ive travaillé comme représentant des ventes pour Abercrombie et Fitch depuis environ deux ans et je dois dire que c’est génial. Jeffries est un cochon. Ne pas aliéner quelqu’un vous freakin moquez de moi? quelle est cette école? et je vois aliéner les gens chaque fois que je travaille, ça me tue de voir des jeunes filles viennent en qui pas entrer dans la plus grande taille qui pour être honnête est assez faible. son écœurante que jeffries assis sur son trône et est heureux de dire quand une jeune fille est en colère parce que shes un peu trop grand pour porter Hollister ou Abercrombie. et ive entendu ici et d’autres sites aussi que Jeffries est l’un des PDG les mieux payées en amérique, drôle parce que ive a travaillé à mon Hollister pour deux ans et n’ont jamais eu une augmentation et ne sera probablement jamais donné un. refroidir réductions des thats im tout simplement ridicule un homme âgé de 19 ans et même je sais que vous devez promotions et autres à apporter dans les affaires. J’espère que cette pauvre excuse pour un patron aime le goût de la vanille

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