Gardner proves to be a quick study
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 07, 2008 
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Brett Gardner drew a walk off Jonathan Papelbon in the ninth inning of Friday night’s 6-4 loss. Big deal, right?
Actually, yes. Gardner saw seven pitches in that plate appearance. So when he came to the plate tonight, he had a sense of what to expect.
“I knew going up there that he would give me some fastballs to hit,†Gardner said. “Just having confidence, I knew I saw his stuff pretty good.”
After going down 0-2, he fouled off two fastballs. He then took two pitches before Papelbon resorted to a split-finger fastball. Gardner didn’t get much of it, but it was just enough to win the game.
At the end of the night, I went over to ask Justin Christian what he thought. He has played with Gardner for three seasons.
“All heart,” Christian said. “He knows what he can do and he knows what he can’t. He’s a real competitive kid. I was sitting there watching and I knew he’d get a hit.”
Gardner is 3 for 21 since he showed up. But you have to admit, it’s been a pretty darn interesting 3 for 21.
Gardner for MVP! (at least for tomorrow)
i’ll take Gardners 3-21 anyday. But he is a slow beginner as alot of people have said. He will arrive.
Gardner for MVP!
way to go bubba crosby..i mean brett gardner.
Vote for Stache said it perfectly. He’s a slow starter, look at his numbers. It takes about 35-50 at bats before he feels comfortable at any level. Thanks to(if that’s fair to say) these injuries, he’s going to get those at bats.
While he’s 3-21, you can’t take away how strong many of those at bats have been. He’s competed against pitchers at the Major League level, and he’s already stolen three bases. It’s obvious Gardner(as anyone who’s seen him in Scranton could tell you) can make a difference.
I think the best part for me was watching him celebrate on the field with Justin Christian. Christian and Gardner were next to each other in Scranton, and both very supportive of each other. It’s great to see them both in New York, and able to celebrate success like that.
That was a gutsy at-bat there by Gardner. What you’d expect from a veteran, not a rookie…
We really needed this win…
Now, we have to take 2 from Tampa…we need to win both of them!
If we can do that, anything is possible!
Go Yanks!
I agree Chris. Not only does he work the count on almost all his at-bats, but at least in these first 21, he almost always puts a solid swing on the ball. On at least 3 or 4 of the balls he has put in play, great fielding plays (mostly diving stops by the 3rd or 1st baseman) have stolen extra-base hits from him. If he stays with the approach he has, of working the count, and slapping the ball the other way, more of these balls will find holes and he can wreak his havoc on the bases, as the Yanks need every run they can get these days.
As a side point- the scouting reports say his arm his average, but on the one opportunity he’s had to throw a runner out, he threw a strike to second a few days ago, earning his first major league assist.
I like this kid.
I wasn’t big on Gardner but those tough at bats tonight are something this team doesn’t have enough of. Drove in the game winner in both wins. Interesting guy to have, alright.
You know, you’ll hear he has an below average arm, but I’ve never agreed with it in all sense of the word. Watching him, you’ll notice a few things. He tends to be very accurate, and get a pretty good jump on the ball.
Arm strength might not be his strength, but he isn’t going to have a strong arm when his comparison ultimately is going to be Melky. If you aren’t comparing him to Melky, he’s fine and he’s going to get to more balls than anyone else that we’ve had out there in the past few years.
Just a winning player.
Need more like him. He needs consistent playing time.
Like Pete said, it wasnt just tonight against Paps, but Friday too. You can see he is a scraper and knows whats its like to hit in a clutch position. He was cool and collect after the game as well
And like you said Chris, I LOVE the way he has My boy Dave Robertson, Justin Christian and Joba to celebrate with. This is why I love the youth movement
Dr. J said it perfectly. He needs “consistent” playing time. Consistent truly is the key word.
That’s the main concern any Gardner fans should have. Gardner is someone who the Yankees organization firmly believes needs to be playing baseball everyday. If there isn’t a spot for Gardner at some point, and he isn’t getting time, he WILL be send down.
That’s why it’s very important Gardner gets adjusted well in the next two weeks. Christian will get sent down before Gardner, so he’ll have a chance to earn a spot in New York more long term. Can he stay up the rest of the season, it’s possible, but the key is getting the time.
It seems having Gardner up has a side benefit as well, Melky is hitting a little better lately.
What a game.
I always laugh when Papelbon makes that silly looking face when he is getting the signs. Is it to make the batter laugh, therefore getting them off balance? It sure can’t intimidate. I mean he looks like that Sendak – “where the wild things are” – drawing brought to life with that stupid face.
Honestly, if I was batting against papelbon, I would have to laugh at that face
Maybe thats why he is so good?
Isn’t that what the Yankees used to be know for – working the count?
between smelly manny getting MO-ed down, and my boy gardner. that was a phenomenal game. most exciting of the year in my book.
While he doesn’t have a strong arm, from what we’ve seen so far, it is accurate. Add his stepping into the throw and it is fairly decent.
I also think he has great speed. What I’ve noticed as well, he gets up to speed quickly. He really is fun to watch, now if he keeps working pitchers he will get some hits as well.
Yesterday (I was at it) was damn exciting too. The entire game was great
Key word is used to. It’s what Abreu used to do as well.
As for Papelbon, he does scare women. My fiance thinks he looks scary.
“Isn’t that what the Yankees used to be know for – working the count?”
That, and winning it all!
You got it right Old Goat. Getting to the ball, and releasing the ball quickly, that’s part of his game.
He’s only hitting .143, but if he had any luck at all he’d probably be hitting .286 now. Well done Justin.
Anyone else think this week favors us. But only if we take both from Tampa. If we take the 2, we go into Pittsburgh and take the game that we HAD, and then Toronto who has been terrible. Boston plays 3 against the Hot Twins, and then Baltimore for 3. If they split those 2 series, and we take 4 out of 6 we can be 2.5 behind going into the break. Unfortunetly, Tampa plays Cleveland without CC
“Anyone else think this week favors us. But only if we take both from Tampa.”
Agreed…the key is those 2 games against the Rays…
This is why I love baseball. As much as you could say it’s a week that could favor us, it could hurt us too. Tampa is not an easy team to beat. Hell, we haven’t played that well against them even when they weren’t a great team the last few years.
They’re gritty and they don’t like to lose. They won’t be a push over. I imagine we’ll split the series with them, and keep our distance where we stand with that. As for the rest of the week, I can see Boston having issues with the Twins, but I don’t see Tampa having as much trouble with Cleveland as I’d like.
I know tonight was a great win but let’s not carried away. This win means nothing if they can’t beat TB both games and the cards are stacked against them.
Don’t forget – TB has a 7-game win streak and has Kazmir on the mound matched up against Ponson.
No easy feat.
And as well as Gardner has played the last couple of games, he’ll probably be rewarded by being benched on Tuesday against Kazmir.
Girardi plays it by the book a little too often as far as I’m concerned.
Yes, but they have been really hot winning 7 straight, so why not us to take them down ? Pitching matchups favor them, but I can see us taking both
If I’m not mistaken, Pettitte will be facing Kazmir, and if that’s the case I like our chances a little more…
We need to win 2 against the Rays. Although I’m not very excited about the pitching matchups. Kazmir vs Ponson is a terrible matchup for us. Edwin Jackson is on and off, but we seem to have trouble as of late (mainly because the Yankees don’t work the count as well anymore) against I’m not sure but most likely a callup or Rasner.
Those are 2 tough games where our back end starters are up against their best and 4th best pitchers (they have a heck’va lot of starting pitching).
On Gardner, its great to see him start to come around. On the 3-21 not, I believe Cano started off his career with something like 2-22 and most Yankee fans wanted to release the kid and were like “wtf” when Torre kept saying he likes what he is seeing with the kid. Now I’m not saying he’s going to be as good as Gardner but its good to see him get a big hit tonight.
The Indians would atleast throw out Lee and Laffey at the Rays, so maybe they can eek out a win, although I liked their chances a lot better when both Lee and Sabathia were scheduled to face the Rays.
I’m not sure about that.
I want to see this team do well, but they haven’t shown they can put together a decent streak against good teams.
You don’t figure that Kazmir is going to give up a lot of runs and Ponson is going to give up more than his share.
Hey, that’s why they play the games but I’m not real confident in Ponson holding down TB.
I sure hope Molina is behind the plate both games because there’s no way Posada is going to be able to keep their running game in-check. At least Molina has a fighting chance.
Franco, can you stop being negative. Yeah we all see that the Rays are the greatest team to ever play baseball, but can we get some optimism for a depleted team taking 2 big wins from the Red Sox? 4-36 after losing in the 6th inning turned into 5-36 because of some clutch hits from the bottom of the lineup. Maybe we wont make the playoffs, but theres no reason to quit with 70+ games left
Two wins against the Rays =very important
Will we do it with the pitchers we’re most likely throwing their way…not so sure.
I think it’s very telling that a lot of us have more confidence in Gardner than we do in some of the high priced talent.
If it were Abreu or Posada up in that at bat, I would not have expected anything other than K or a ground out.
This kid feels like a winning player. Maybe some of that will rub off on some of these veterans who seemed dazed by the daily challenge of the game.
Gardner has been robbed of a few hits — his average is not accurate by a long shot.
This kid needs to play everyday.
I think that we can pull ourselves out of the inconsistency if we make some addition by subtraction moves like trading Abreu.
I hope Cashman is paying attention and realizes that he needs to keep this sparkplug in the lineup.
He just won 2 games against the Red Sox and both game winning at bats were in tough situations.
He’s a keeper.
“Maybe we wont make the playoffs, but theres no reason to quit with 70+ games left”
We have plenty of time to turn it around still-these last 2 games are a good start. We could’ve easily lost both of them and been swept-instead we found a way to win…
We can find a way to get to the playoffs too!
“Gardner is 3 for 21 since he showed up. But you have to admit, it’s been a pretty darn interesting 3 for 21.”
I’ve never seen a prospect with more hype than Brett Gardner. Anybody else goes 3 for 21 it’s nothing. Brett Gardner does it, it should be studied by nuclear physicist for a millenia. Amazing!
I actually went to see James Shield and Evan Longoria’s first professional team play. The Hudson Valley Renegades vs the Tri City Valley Cats. It was fun. I used to go to every game when Longoria played for them. I live 5 minutes from them.
But anyways. You guys may be afraid of the big bad Rays, but one thing they dont have is experience. We and the Red Sox will make a run at them and I still feel that were the team to beatr.
I asked this in the In game discussion
Does the week of the ASG count on the 15 day DL for Damon?
id rather have abreu then gardner… who bats third then?
DR,
You’ve gotta be kidding me. This isn’t about being negative. It’s about being realistic after watching this team all season.
I hope they win the next 15 games – but that’s not very realistic now is it?
And it’s not being negative to point out that the deck is clearly stacked against them with a Ponson vs. Zazmir matchup.
Don’t be surprised if Ponson is gone by the All Star Break.
I’ve never seen a prospect with more hype than Brett Gardner. Anybody else goes 3 for 21 it’s nothing. Brett Gardner does it, it should be studied by nuclear physicist for a millenia. Amazing!”
Joba? Hughes? Even Ian Kennedy?
Wait till Tabata, Montero, Acevas (hes the wild card) AJax all come up. The hype will be ENORMOUS.
On an optimistic note, it’s time to pass out for me. I think the Yankees have had the potential to pick it up with the fire that the youth movement brings.
I just hope they can maintain it. I hate these days off after wins like these, as I think people take away too much from the motivational aspect of the game.
“I’ve never seen a prospect with more hype than Brett Gardner. Anybody else goes 3 for 21 it’s nothing. Brett Gardner does it, it should be studied by nuclear physicist for a millenia. Amazing!”
I COULDN’T AGREE MORE, THANK U!
Franco
Its actually Pettitte vs Kazmir
DR,
It’s the 15-day DL – not the 15-game DL.
So, yes, of course the ASB counts.
I really like Gardner. Even though he wasn’t getting hits he had great at bats. He is a real grinder..exactly what this team needs. He always takes pitches and I don’t remember seeing 1 bad at bat that he has had. It was exciting seeing him on base the couple of times that he has gotten on because you know he is going to steal. He should get plenty of at bats to show everyone what hes got.
Its actually Pettitte vs Kazmir
Then the Yankee home page has it wrong if that’s the case.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=nyy
yes the ASG week does count towards the 15 day DL..
Gardner will start because the only other outfielder is CHristian..
gardner will start on Tuesday, I will bet anyone on that fact.
Ponson Tuesday if he sucks that will be his last start, his WHIP is terrible..
Aaron, your non obsession will turn you against Gardner because you will want him to fail just so you dont look stupid
Believe me, im not obsessed with the movie The Dark Knight because of all of the hype, but I will be proven wrong because it will likely do extremely well. But I have turned from “Im going to love it” to “I really want to hate this movie” because of all the hype
You will be asking for Gardner strike outs soon enough. Your best option is to take your quote out and just love him for being a Yankee, and not hate him because he is so hyped
It’s the 15-day DL – not the 15-game DL.
So, yes, of course the ASB counts.”
Ok thanks. Thats good then. Probably why he decided on going on the DL?
And ESPN.com says its Pettitte, they could very well be wrong too. But all it takes is an offensive outburst to win. Even if Ponson gives up 4-5 runs, we can easily score that with our offense. Its just a question of if.
Miguel Tejada has no business being on the all-star team. David Wright has been much better than that guy. Even Brandon Phillips should have got the nod over Miguel Tejada. Jose Reyes has also been better.
Chase Nady from Pirates, send Abreu to Braves for Teixeira
Even if Ponson gives up 4-5 runs, we can easily score that with our offense. Its just a question of if.
Not the way this offense has played all season. They’ve scored two runs or fewer 29 times.
That’s truly mind-boggling.
And I don’t see them scoring 4-5 runs against Kazmir so Pettitte [or Ponson] is going to have to be on top of his game.
DLo,
Met Fan im guessing?
Jose Reyes has no business on the Allstar team. Maybe Wright, but thats even questionable. But Mike Mussina and even Jason Giambi deserve an AL spot over those 2
I’m not taking it out of my name, and second of all I don’t hate ANY of the Yankees.. I’m a real fan..
I want to see Gardner succeed and be a factor for the Yanks as much as all you guys do, but I’m not gonna sit here and hype the guys like he’s Jacoby or Bruce or Damon back in the day.and cream all over my keyboard bc he’s 3-21.. I mean ya im happy he had to hits yesterday and today for the win. But I mean come on people, think logical our best line up is w. him in LF and Melky in CF and Damon DH, then u got 8,9,1. who can do whatever u want them to do..
If Justin Christian was 3-21 all u people would say send him down, he sucks..but u guys got ure self so over hyperd for gardner you’re all thinking that he’s amazing and the next coming of christ.
Trust me i wish him well and hope he can do good for us, but i don’t see Melky moving.. sry.. a switch hitter, whoe runs decent, and has an arm and will run through a wall.. I like Gardner don’t get me wrong, but relax w. him..
and all u people wanted Cano gone 2 weeks ago, where’s that talk all of sudden??
Not the way this offense has played all season. They’ve scored two runs or fewer 29 times.
That’s truly mind-boggling.
And I don’t see them scoring 4-5 runs against Kazmir so Pettitte [or Ponson] is going to have to be on top of his game.”
Well Kazmir isnt perfect, we just have to pick our spots. the 2 runs or less crap will end, we just hope it ends soon.
The Yanks were never in the running for Sabathia and they are not in the running for Teixeira.
I guess some people don’t want to believe that the days of trading young talent away for a big splash at the deadline are over.
You know, we laugh about Damon being an idiot. But he really has some great intuition. He predicted last year(correctly) that they would make the playoffs.
And then when Damon got injured, he immediately deflected the attention to Gardner and said, “Without me in there, there’s another guy we have to replace. Now the world gets to go out and see what Brett Gardner can do. I’m sure they’re going to like what they see.â€
Hey David Robertson supporter, now I like him too. He’s got good stuff, he just fell to much in love w. his curve in the at bat against kevin cash..
I’m not taking it out of my name, and second of all I don’t hate ANY of the Yankees.. I’m a real fan..
I want to see Gardner succeed and be a factor for the Yanks as much as all you guys do, but I’m not gonna sit here and hype the guys like he’s Jacoby or Bruce or Damon back in the day.and cream all over my keyboard bc he’s 3-21.. I mean ya im happy he had to hits yesterday and today for the win. But I mean come on people, think logical our best line up is w. him in LF and Melky in CF and Damon DH, then u got 8,9,1. who can do whatever u want them to do..
If Justin Christian was 3-21 all u people would say send him down, he sucks..but u guys got ure self so over hyperd for gardner you’re all thinking that he’s amazing and the next coming of christ.
Trust me i wish him well and hope he can do good for us, but i don’t see Melky moving.. sry.. a switch hitter, whoe runs decent, and has an arm and will run through a wall.. I like Gardner don’t get me wrong, but relax w. him..
and all u people wanted Cano gone 2 weeks ago, where’s that talk all of sudden??”"”
Gardner isnt hyped to hit .350, he is hyped for the reason he scored in the 7th inning. He turns the single into the double because he will steal a base. He got a HORRIBLE jump, and still got in safe whereas Melky got a great jump and was almost gunned out. And how can you not compare the kid to Jacoby? What does Jacoby have thats so special? I hope no one has EVER compared him to Jay Bruce though.
Oh, and im a HUGE homer fan of Cano, I never gave up on Cano. Everytime he gets up im on his side and never saying sh it about him.
I’m a Yankee fan, not a Mets fan. I’m not saying that reyes deserves to be an all-star. What I am saying though is that he has had a better season so far than Tejada.
And Moose doesn’t belong on the team. The selected starting pitchers for the AL team have all been better than him.
Probable pitchers per mlb.com:
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p?c_id=nyy
David Robertson will learn if we can keep him up. He has great stuff, but hes been in high leverage situations thus far and hasnt done terrible.
And Franco,
I dont think we have ever been a huge buyer at the Deadline have we? Abreu is the only real big name I can think of. Maybe I am suffering from last night getting wasted after the Yankee game ( went to it) But Tex to NY is NOT going to happen. Our best options are signing one or the other after the season.
Yeah I wouldn’t expect the Yankees to make any big deadline deals this year.
And Moose doesn’t belong on the team. The selected starting pitchers for the AL team have all been better than him.”
Yes but they all are basically 27 and younger. How many more chances does Moose have to pitch in an ASG? Even if he didnt get pitch, he should have been selected. The game is in NY, not Boston. If Varitek can make a team batting .220 I think a top winning pitcher should be able to be selected.
Why does the team need Varitek to lead them? Jeter is a better leader than Varitek.
I am honestly surprised Francona didnt pick Beckett or Mats
Not to take away anything from Gardner, but I think Robinson Cano is the unsung hero of this game… I mean he batted in the majority of their runs and he turned the entire momentum towards the Yankees. Up to that point, it seemed like the Yankees would never be able to get the big hit. And then boom, a very hard hit triple and Cano is standing at third with the game tied. And then to top his night off he gets that hit of Papelbon which pretty much sealed the Red Sox fate.
right I understand that ure a gardner fan and thats fine, im a melky fan, but i also cheer for gardner bc he’s a yankee.. by no means am i wanting to see him fail, but u guys were hyping him from opening day, and u all expect melky to hit .300, he’s not a .300 hitter and either is gardner.. melky will hit .250-.270 and i don’t see anything wrong with that.. so basically, the only reason u like gardner is bc he can camp under a fly ball that most CF can get too, and he’s quick.. ure not selling me on him yet.. sry
he’s good , don’t get me wrong..
Here’s something I thought was interesting via Ed Price:
Gardner, 24, isn’t Johnny Damon, but he can add a speed element the Yankees have lacked. Scouts have clocked him at 3.9 seconds from moment of contact to first base on a ground ball — at the top of the scale for a left-handed hitter.
I remember hearing years ago that Mickey Mantle was clocked at 3.1 seconds to 1B early in his career before he tore his knee in the ’51 World Series.
It’s truly astonishing how someone which so much talent and tremendous power could also be .8 seconds faster to 1B than one of the fastest players in the game right now.
That’s remarkable.
“Yes but they all are basically 27 and younger. How many more chances does Moose have to pitch in an ASG? Even if he didnt get pitch, he should have been selected.”
Who cares about age? It’s about performance. The players that play the best should make the team. It’s only fair. Moose has done well, but he is not among the 8 best starting pitchers in the american league. Therefore he doesn’t deserve a spot on the team.
And I completely agree about varitek’s dumb selection. What a joke.
DFox, I agree w. you
I meant 6, not 8.
Not to take away anything from Gardner, but I think Robinson Cano is the unsung hero of this game… I mean he batted in the majority of their runs and he turned the entire momentum towards the Yankees. Up to that point, it seemed like the Yankees would never be able to get the big hit. And then boom, a very hard hit triple and Cano is standing at third with the game tied. And then to top his night off he gets that hit of Papelbon which pretty much sealed the Red Sox fate”
I rarely agree with you but you are 100% correct. Cano is the hero of this game. He turned this from a depressing night to, holy crap we could win this game
And Aaron
Its not just “speed” he brings to us. Because Damon brings us speed. But Gardner brings us SPEED. He hustles down the line EVERY time unlike the fast SS from Queens. Gardner when used to the majors will be a threat to steal a base every time he gets on as well as bunt one down the line. He was also a gap hitter in AAA so its only a matter of time before we see him hit some gap balls for doubles/triples (he did have 12? triples in AAA). And unless Melky is facing the Padres or Tim Wakefield, his single will keep him at first and likely not score on plays Gardner would. If they both bat the same average, would you honestly take Melkys arm over Gardners legs? I wouldnt. As you saw yesterday, Gardner can throw people out too. And Melky has less chances to throw someone out than Gardner does to steal a base
I could Argue Mussina over Halladay DLo.
Actually no I cant because Halladay is the only Blue Jay on the team.
Yeah sure but there is a better argument for halladay over Moose.
“I’ve never seen a prospect with more hype than Brett Gardner. Anybody else goes 3 for 21 it’s nothing. Brett Gardner does it, it should be studied by nuclear physicist for a millenia. Amazing!”
QFT. Seriously, Pete it is a 3 for 21 stretch. Has he taken pitches? But I think I can name about 1,000 things that are more interesting than a .143/.208/.143.
At least Ellsbury’s hype derived from a slash stat that read .353/.394/.509
with that speed he should hustle down the line everytime, Melky hustles down the line too.. and of course he’s gonna bust ass down the line bc hes a rookie trying to make an impact on a limping Yankee team..
I can’t wait til Gardner starts slapping the ball around, trust me. but I personally think Melky and Gardner in the line up together is our best bet for the rest of the year and we’ll let our (HOPEFULLY) new GM deal with the situation at the end of the year.. but it’s gonna be interesting on what they’re going to do when Damon and Matsui come back
Oye.. I meant to write “Has he taken pitches? Sure..” clearly I should be in bed.
hmm, good point
that rule annoys me. do you remember when redman made the all-star team as a royal a couple of years ago? his ERA was in the 5′s I think.
Yeah but, Dave the Red Sox fan. How is Ellsbury doing now? Gardner and Ellsbury are the same player. Slap hitting speedsters which average OF arms.
David Robertson for Setup – Vote for the ‘Stache’
“Franco, can you stop being negative. Yeah we all see that the Rays are the greatest team to ever play baseball, but can we get some optimism for a depleted team taking 2 big wins from the Red Sox?”
Because the red sox were playing at full strength, huh?
Do you even pay attention to what’s going on?
I can’t wait til Gardner starts slapping the ball around, trust me. but I personally think Melky and Gardner in the line up together is our best bet for the rest of the year and we’ll let our (HOPEFULLY) new GM deal with the situation at the end of the year.. but it’s gonna be interesting on what they’re going to do when Damon and Matsui come back”
Yeah, once Damon and Matsui come back, the spots will be slim. It will be a rotation before the 4 (Gardner, Matsui, Melky, and Damon) Funny that Abreu was never in that rotation of who to sit out. But at least if we make the playoffs they wont be fatigued.
Because the red sox were playing at full strength, huh?
Do you even pay attention to what’s going on?”
If you read, you would see that conversation was over with. Yes Manny and Ortiz didnt play. But I would say Wang, Damon, Matsui being out is a bigger blow for us.
Who would you rather have come off the bench to pinch hit Manny or Betemit?
So why dont you pay attention, and read a little bit
To David Rob
The league has caught up to Ellsbury and exposed his holes. My post wasn’t a “Ellsbury is so much better blah blahâ€, so I have no idea why you would ask how he is doing..
I simply said, Ellsbury’s hype was propelled by a pretty unreal and unsustainable 127 PA last year while Gardner’s hype is growing because of a 3 for 21 stretch.
ya but really are they gonna carry 5 outfielders, no way.. i wouldn’t be surprised if Matsui get’s put on 60day
Um b, how were the Red Sox not at full strength? Who knows when Ortiz is coming back (this season?), so I consider the Red Sox without him at full strength.
And then tonight, it was their choice to sit Manny. And you saw what happened when they did decide to have him come in. And Varitek? Not having him in the lineup was in affect replacing the AL pitcher in the lineup with the bad hitter in Cash.
Great hit and all, but Brett Gardner is a 4/5th outfielder. Plain and simple. He should never be a consistent starting outfielder on a championship Yankees team.
agreed chris, thank you. Finally someone on my side
Also, Cole Hamels should have made it over Dempster.
Yeah, its funny that the Sox fans are starting to blame their struggles on not being full strength.
Drew is playing better than Ortiz was playing AT ALL this season. So its like you picked up a big FA in Drew when Ortiz went down when you think of how much he has excelled since Ortiz has been down
Great hit and all, but Brett Gardner is a 4/5th outfielder. Plain and simple. He should never be a consistent starting outfielder on a championship Yankees team.”
Why not? What does Melky give that Brett doesnt have? Arm vs Legs, I take legs everytime
To my above statement
if you look at the 2 Gardner = Ellsbury
Ellsbury helped the Sox last season in his rookie season to the championship. So why cant Gardner be on a championship team? I can name plenty of players like Gardner on championship teams. Podsednick on the White Sox in 2005? David Roberts on the 2004 Sox?
It’s absurd to say Gardner can’t start on a championship caliber team. I seem to remember a slap hitting speedy outfielder with no arm or power named Mickey Rivers.. he played in a few post-seasons, didn’t he?
You don’t need All-Stars at every position. You need some great players and some excellent “role” players. Gardner has the potential to fill a useful role on this team for ’08 and beyond. Just accept the kid for who and what he is and quit pissing and moaning about what he’s not.
Abreu straight up for Teixiera? Cool deal. Maybe we can Linecum for Chad Moeller and Derk Lee for Jason Lane while we’re at it!
With all due respect, I completely disagree. I am not obsessed with Gardner, but find the topic interesting having followed these players in Scranton.
Gardner has been said to be many things, and that’s what makes him interesting. No one seems to be really sure what he’s going to be for this team long term.
Ultimately, Gardner isn’t the total package like prospects Austin Jackson and Jose Tabata are supposed to be. Still, Damon isn’t going to be a Yankee forever, and you need a lead off man. Gardner would fill that role and give the Yankees a speed burst.
IMO you have to give Gardner more than 21 at bats before you claim to know the rest of his career.
Gardner is no savior, but you gotta love the energy and speed and toughness he brings to this team, something it desperately needs. I thought that ball he hit to lead off the 9th over third was fair, but was just foul by an eyelash. And its great to see Cano’s bat finally come around. I always knew he would hit. He’s too a hitter not to. All those people screaming to trade him, would love to smack them all upside the head right now for being so impatient.
In 1960, the smallest Alou brother, Matty, was a part-time player for SF. He had some speed, and decent hand/eye, but only posted a 90ish OPS over 6 years, with a .231 BA in 1965. He was traded to Pittsburg in ’66 and proceeded to hit .342, averaging .310 over the rest of his career and being known as one of baseball’s best leadoff hitters.
He had no power and not that much talent but he was obviously smart. He would bunt, pound the ball into the ground, hit 200′ line drives, take some walks. Anything to get on base. He knew what he could do and what he couldn’t do, and made the absolute best of his ability.
I think of this when looking at both Gardner and Melky. Melky is far more talented then Gardner, yet offensively, Gardner may out produce Melky. Gardner is faster, stronger and smarter about BBs the Matty, but he is still a ‘Matty’ kind of guy. Melky thinks he’s a ‘Cano’ kind of guy. So Gardner overperforms for his talent because he is smart, and makes the most of his ability. Melky is underperforming because… well, he doesn’t appear to be none too smart. Maybe the legend of playing CF for the NY Yankees has gone to his head.
“Baseball is 90% mental — the other half is physical.”
Baseball is a game where ‘Smarts’ can make a HUGE difference. Just look at Moose in 2007 and now in 2008. He didn’t get any younger or stronger this last year. But obviously he got smarter.
In 2006, his rookie year at 21, Melky posted a .280 .360 .391 .751 line. Not bad for a good defensive CFer. And he will only get better, right? Yet once he ‘won’ his position, he has gone downhill. I guess he is not as hungry and therefore not as smart.
Gardner may become, but should NOT be a better ballplayer then Melky. If he does, I hold the Yankees coaching staff responsible for Melky’s failure. On top of everything else, even Melky’s trade value is now at a minimum. It is time for the Yankees to read Melky the riot act, and let him know his future as a Yankee, and maybe as a MLBer, is on VERY thin ice.
Fine him for HRs? Reward him for BBs and opposite field hits? I don’t know. But I don’t think anyone doubts that a smart Melky could be a .775 or better OPS guy. Brett ‘knows’ his job is to NOT MAKE AN OUT. Melky thinks his job is to hit the first pitch 350′ into the gap.
Like Brett and now Moose, Melky’s career depends on his approach… playing smart. Again, I put it on the Yankees’s coaching staff to get Melky straight.
BG BABY!!!!!!!
He just needs a few more hits to fall and he will be fine!!!
Both YES and ESPN list the following:
Pettitte (9-6) Kazmir (7-3)
Ponson (5-1) Jackson (5-6)
“I’ve never seen a prospect with more hype than Brett Gardner. Anybody else goes 3 for 21 it’s nothing.”
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First off, 21 ABs is a pretty small sample size, especially for a guy who is well known to start slowly at each level. As far as the ‘hype’, it’s is mostly bloggers taking the ‘grass is always greener’ approach to Melky’s underperforming.
The Yankees themselves are NOT overhyped on either Brett or IPK. They THINK they know what they have. An above average 4th outfielder with great plate disipline and speed, and an above average 5th starter.
ARod is the #1 guy on our rooster, and he is better then just about anyone else’s #1. Brett and IPK could be the 24th and 25th guys on our rooster. If they are better then other team’s 24th and 25th guys, especially at the league minimum, they are tremendous assets. Or would you rather spend $20m-40m over 4 years for your 2 ‘worst’ players?
The Yankees’ farm staff believes that IPK can be a very effective #5, and if all goes right, MAYBE a better then average #4. Nobody thinks he’s an ace. Nobody thinks he will be our #2 or #3. Same with Brett. Because he has the right approach and great speed, he could be a .260/.360/.400 guy with many SBs. That’s not Mickey Mantle, but it is damn good for a 4th OFer… and CHEAP.
Look at it this way. Lets say the Yankees want to get their payroll to the $160m mark. That’s an average of $6.4m per player. If they have 1 guy making the league minimum, they can afford to pay another guy $12.8m. If you have 2 guys making league minimum, you can pay another guy $19.2m, which is a CC or Teixeira. This is why guys like Melky, Brett, IPK and many of the kids in the BP are soooooooo valuable. Not for the ‘great talent’ they bring as individuals, but for what they allow for the building of the 25 man rooster as a whole.
The hype is coming from YOU people. Cashman hopes that maybe, possibly, Brett can eek him way onto a MLB rooster as an average or better then average player FOR HIS SLOT. And if he can, like every other homegrown kid, he has great value because we can NOT pay all our starters $27.5m, or $22m or $21m.
Excellent points Old Yankees Fan. I’m an older (50) guy myself and am quite pleased the Yankees are finally showing some respect to the financial implications of their actions. Had they done so in the past, we don’t get stuck with Jeff Weaver for Ted Lilly…. we don’t send Weaver away for Kevin Brown as Vasquez for Randy Johnson.
The great run the Yankees enjoyed 1996-2001 they never had the highest paid guy… but the highest total payroll. They’ve gotten away from that balance and sensibility in recent years and it’s about time.
That’s why I can envision Sabathia and Hughes costing about the same money as Pavano and Mussina. I see Teixiera taking up less $$$ than Giambi. And there’s no way they’ll spend anything like $ 9.5 million on replacements for Farnswurst and Hawkins. Add that savings to Abreu and you have a lot of flexibility to go find a RH hitter.
With all the hype about the Red Sox’s speed. The Yanks were 4 for 4 and the BoSox’s 1 for 6 in base running in this series.
How about Girardi’s outburst? Hilarious:
http://thesportshernia.typepad.....-cave.html
Playoffs or no playoffs, and I don’t mean to get ahead of everything here and overlook this still-going season, but it is going to be extremely interesting to see what this team looks like on Opening Day in April 2009.
It’s kind of ridiculous the judgements people are making on Gardner when he’s had 21 ABs at the major league level so far. It’s also kind of ridiculous that some people almost sound like they want him to fail. We have to play him now that Damon is out whether you like it or not, and if he shows the ability to be an effective leadoff hitter in that period of time you should take that as gravy instead of hoping that he strikes out in high pressure situations to cut down on the “hype”.
My judgement wasn’t based on the result of the 21 at-bats. It was based on his minor league career and actual scouting of his at-bats. He’ll be a nice bench player. Remember, Melky got all this kind of hype too when he started out well (which Gardner isn’t even doing). How is Melky doing now? I personally don’t think either of them are starting material for a championship team.
Anyone else out there think Gardner resembles Scott Ian of the band “Anthrax” ?