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Tuesday: LHP Scott Kazmir (7-3, 2.63) vs. LHP Andy Pettitte (9-6, 4.22), 7:05, YES
Wednesday: RHP Edwin Jackson (5-6, 4.08) vs. RHP Sidney Ponson (5-1, 4.19), 1:05, YES
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on Tuesday, July 8th, 2008 at 2:08 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings joined the The Journal News in October 2009, having spent the better part of seven years covering baseball in Scranton, PA. He is a graduate of the University of Missouri and an award-winning beat reporter and features writer. E-mail me at cjennings@lohud.com
Sam Borden is an award-winning journalist who joined The Journal News
and LoHud.com in January 2008. He covered the Yankees for the New York
Daily News from 2004-06, and has also worked as a columnist for the
Florida Times-Union in Jacksonville. E-mail me at sborden@lohud.com
Josh Thomson has done some of everything since joining The Journal News in March 2003. He began working for the Gannett weeklies during the winter of 2002 as a freelance writer. He joined the daily staff soon after and has since covered various high school and pro sports. E-mail me at jthomson@lohud.com
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Thanks, Pete. There were conflicting reports, but you’ve settled it.
Looking for a good bounceback game from Andy.
This team needs to win this series.They won’t by there pitching but hopefully we can get the Rays to slump after being so hot the last 10 games.
MoBoy, I like your optimism. Go Yankees.
kazmir should be tough, the offense needs to get rolling
I don’t usually advocate giving games away, but I’d rather the Yankees stick with Ponson against Kazmir. Kazmir is nasty and one of the elite pitchers in baseball. Plus he absolutely owns ARod and Giambi. Plus Girardi has some odd obsession with benching the regular hitters against lefties, so the lineup will probably be the “B” Lineup. And Molina will probably catch since the Rays have Crawford and Upton who are both dangerous on the bases. But Molina’s presence is really hurting the Yankee offense.
And with Ponson pitching on Tuesday, the Yankees could very well lose that game too since he is brutal. So I say pitch Ponson against Kazmir and just pray. That way Pettitte at least gives us a good chance against Jackson.
Jorge has really dominated Kazmir. Melky and Abreu have done well in limited ABs. Everyone else? Not so much.
Do you think Joe will sit Gardner and start Justin Christian against the tough lefty?
I can’t believe Sidney Ponson is pitching for the New York Yankees.
sigh
perff, why completely sacrifice the game, you have to put your best pitcher out there against theres.
I’d rather throw Kennedy out there despite his horrid start to the season, then see Ponson pitch for NY.
I doubt Gardner will be benched. But I do think that Betemit will be in there somewhere. Maybe in Giambi’s place. I’m thinking:
LF – Gardner
SS – Jeter
RF – Abreu
3B – Rodriguez
DH – Posada
2B – Cano
1B – Betemit
C – Molina
CF – Cabrera
I think Girardi will sit Gardner against Kazmir.
He plays it by the book too much in my book as evidenced by the Mets game in which he benched Abreu, Giambi, and Cano against Oliver Perez.
I think we’ll see Christian in the starting lineup tomorrow and Melky will probably be in the leadoff spot.
Not what I’d do but that’s the kind of thing Girardi has been doing this season.
Giambi needs to build his All-Star resume while the polls are open. He has to play.
That lineup against Perez was ridiculously terrible. Girardi definitely benches the regulars too much.
gardner has had the game winning hit in each of the last yankee victories I think there is no chance in hell gardner gets benched tommorrow
Abreu could get the day off instead of Giambi.
Doesn’t really inspire much confidence but let’s hope for the best. Taking both would be great.
Perff, your logic doesn’t really make sense. If Kazmir pitches the best possible game he can, he can put up a 0… He can’t pitch so well that he makes the Yankees put up a -4… We have all seen Pettitte dominate games. He’s either been really good this year, and when he’s really good, he puts up a 0 or 1, or he’s really bad, and gives up 6. If he has a really good start the Yankees should win. They should score a few off Kazmir.
Andy Pettitte beat Santana, he can’t beat Scott Kazmir?
Kazmir is more likely to throw the gem than Pettitte is. And then Jackson is more likely to be effective than Ponson.
Right now if you go by pitching matchups, the yankees are the underdog in both games because Kazmir is better than pettitte and Jakcon is better than Ponson. My suggestion makes them the favorite in the second game of the series because Pettitte is better than jackson.
Giambi can’t touch Kasmir. 2-16 and 7 strikeouts. Bat Christian in the leadoff and let him bunt in at least three at bats. If he gets on, he’s as fast as Gardner. as a matter of fact, I’d have all of them bunt Kazmir to death. Bunt and run him ragged. The Yanks are hitting a collective .205 off of him. Abreu, Cabrera and Posada are the only ones hitting over .130 off of him. They are at .333 and above.
The best way to beat Kazmir is to get his pitch count up so he doesn’t pitch more than 5 or 6 innings. That is his only weakness. He has some issues especially recently with getting to 100+ pitches in only 5 innings, and in one game he reached it before the 5th inning and so he was removed from the game. So I say they should put the most patient lineup out there – and that includes Giambi, Abreu, and Gardner. If Kazmir’s control is sort of iffy then those guys could get his pitch count up quickly.
Perff, you either believe in your pitchers or not. You can’t be thinking that you’re going to concede one game because the opposing pitcher is too good. But you’re right, Pettitte does need to pitch a great game. The way this offense is going I doubt it matters if he goes out and gives up 6 runs against Kazmir or he does it against Jackson, they’d probably lose either way. I think you have to look at it if Andy Pettitte gives you what he’s supposed to, a very well pitched game, who would you rather have him do it against, Kazmir or Jackson? I mean if the Yankees are going to go out there defeated against Kazmir then shame on them but if they work counts and actually battle off him they can probably score some runs. They scored off Josh Beckett, they scored off Johan Santana, there is no reason why they shouldn’t score of Kazmir.
GreenBeret7, I think some bunting would be nice, but I’d like to see Gardner get creative. Maybe some 2 strike bunts to catch them off guard. And Cliff Lee showed that 2 strike bunts can really piss a pitcher off, and if you can tick a pitcher off and get on then it serves a double purpose.
if andy and kaz both give you what you expect out of them, then the yanks will lose that game
if ponson and jackson also both give you what you expect out of them, then the yankees will lose that game as well
but yeah i wouldnt want to just punt the first game like that
I’d open the game with Christian bunting and then stealing, and letting Jeter do the same. Christian is the right handed version of Gardner with a little more power and a slightly better arm. NYY is not going to slug Kazmir, so they need to rattle him, and bunts and steals will do that. Get the infueld defense moving and maybe Rodriguez, Posada and Giambi can slip hits past them. The only way they get a home run is if Kazmir makes a mistake and Rodriguez or Posada rip it.
Have you considered the high probability that the bunt doesn’t get them to first base safely?
Bunting like crazy early in the game is almost always a dumb strategy.
Bunting is overrated, period. Save it for late innings in close games where you are looking for just one extra run. It severely hampers your ability to score several runs at once.
Plus the Rays have arguably the best infield defense in baseball.
Oh and the idea that Christian is close to the same player that Gardner is, is pretty nuts. Gardner’s value is not in his bunting, it is in the combo of his plate disicpline and speed. Christian doesn’t have that mix in his arsenal.
Look at the numbers the Yankees have against Kazmir. They are ugly, he strikes out batters and he seldom walks them. They won’t beat him into submission. The only way to score on him is to pray for mistakes or bunt him ragged and run on him. He’s given up more than 3 runs in a game once (4 runs). The best chance is to get base runners on and move them (stolen bases). Christian, Jeter and Cabrera can bunt for hits. Bunting to sacrifice is not as automatic. The only chance to get him to make mistakes is to have runners on base. That’s the best way to score against a pitcher that gives a team fits.
The Devil Rays infield defense is better at Tampa than it is on the road. Actually, Christian and Gardner are very similar other than right and left, except that Christian doesn’t strike out anywhere near as much.
“The best chance is to get base runners on”
I agree with this statement. The thing is, bunting is a terrible way to initially get runners on base. That will just shorten at bats and keep Kazmir in the game longer.
Gardner’s ability to get on base via walk is something that Christian can’t touch.
The higher strikeouts is because Gardner is so much better at working deep into counts. That’s why guys like Abreu and Giambi also strikeout a lot. Gardner is certainly not a free-swinger.
Bunting to get on base is not a successful strategy. Players like Juan Pierre are strong evidence of this. All he has is speed. And he consistently makes the most outs in baseball and sucks at getting on base and hurts his teams because of this. Sure once he is on base he is useful, but his ability to get on base is really poor because he relies too much on bunting rather than working the counts. What I am saying is that gardner is not this type of crappy player because he is much better at getting on base as he has very solid plate discipline and won’t swing at crappy pitches.
I’d rather see the Yankees force Kazmir to throw strikes and hopefully work some deep counts rather than giving him simple outs with bunts. The likelihood that anybody gets on base via a bunt is just really really small and totally not worth it.
Kazmir is not the wild young pitcher from before. He’s walking 3 a game (per 9 innings) and giving up hits at a rate of about 5.5 hits per 9 innings. That doesn’t leave much. If the Yanks don’t move runners on him, they’ll be lucky to get 4-5 hits and a couple of walks. He’s allowed 21 extra base hits this year. I’ll repeat it. They won’t hammer him, unless he has a really bad day, and, he hasn’t had one yet, this year.
You guys need to get over the idea that Gardner can do everything, because he can’t. He strikes out a lot and doesn’t walk all that much more than Christian does, given the same at bats. Sending in a fresh left handed hitting rookie to hit against the left handed Kazmir isn’t the smartest idea. Kazmir throws hard, up and in. Gardner can’t hit that. He may foul off a couple, but, he’ll strike out. I’m not suggesting that Christian’s going to hit him, but, he is, along with Gardner, one of the best bunters in the system. He’ll have a bit easier time bunting Kazmir. And, for the one that said bunting was useless, early in the game, that’s BS. It brings the infield in a little closer and makes it easier to sneak balls through the infield. Swing away if they move in, bunt if they drop back. Steal anything not nailed down.
GreenBeret7, the Rays infielders aren’t stupid. They are going to be in for bunts from Gardner all day. If he wants to bunt, he should do it with 2 strikes. If he’s such a good bunter, then getting down a decent bunt with 2 strikes pretty much guarantees him a base hit. But just going up and faking swing isn’t going to cut it because any time there isn’t 2 strikes they would expect him to bunt, and like another poster said that would in effect be giving them a free out.
No your are wrong, bunting early in the game is definitely dumb.
And you haven’t noticed but Kazmir still has issues with inefficient pitch counts. He has reached 100+ pitches in 5 innings quite often recently. This means he is in lots of deep counts. The best way to attack him is to work the count, not give him free outs with dumb bunts.
And Gardner is not some big offensive force. But he does draw walks at a very very high rate in the minor leagues. If all he had was speed and bunting he would be as useless as Juan Pierre. But the dude has shown that he can actually get on base. That’s why he was called up. Cashman even said that the main reason they like him is because of his knack for drawing walks.
The best way to get on base does not involve bunting. I am not suggesting the Yankees swing for the fences here. But trying to get a base hit or walk is much more likely to succeed than bunting for a hit. Once they are on base they can steal like crazy. But trying to get on via bunt is dumb and counteproductive. You will only keep Kazmir in the game longer. There’s a reason he has left a few recent games after just 5 inninngs, and it has absolutely nothing to do with bunting. Make him throw more pitches, not fewer pitches.
Hamel-ian, not to burst your bubble, but if you think Scott Kazmir is going to walk Gardner then you’re dreaming. A great pitcher like Kazmir is going to make a guy like Gardner get a hit, otherwise he’s not getting on base. Players draw walks off great pitchers when the pitcher tries to be careful with the hitter, do you honestly believe Kazmir is going to be careful with Gardner?
Well if he throws pitches right down the middle to Gardner then Gardner will swing away. The chance of it finding a hole through the infield is still better than the chance of bunting safely for a hit. Have you seen Evan Longoria in the field?
I take issue with the idea that the top 2 or 3 Yankee hitters should be bunting against Kazmir to start the game. Whether it is gargner or Jeter or whoever, it is just a really dumb idea, especially if multiple hitters attempt it in a row. They are just beating themselves. Obviously if one guy is going to do it then Gardner should be the guy. But his main point was that the first few batters in the game should do it. That is just dumb and self-defeating.
“I’d open the game with Christian bunting and then stealing, and letting Jeter do the same.”
I mean seriously, does anybody else think this is a remotely good idea?? Let the batters take their normal approach at the plate. The chance they reach base safely with that approach will be higher that way than by having them bunt.
DFox, I would be shocked if Gardner started against Kazmir. I’m also aware that the infield will play in on Christian/Gardner or Jeter and Cabrera. That’s what needs to happen. Like I said, if they play in, fine, try chopping it over their heads, bunt if the move back, but, keep the infield moving. NYY doesn’t hit Kazmir, and just because he walked four batters in his last game, don’t expect to see it again. 2.6 walks and 5.8 hits per 9 innings isn’t a lot of base runners. Most of the hits will be singles, and stringing together a bunt of hits to score a run isn’t something to count on. Hitting Kazmir is like trying to hit the 1978 version of Ron Guidry. Beating him is the same thing…next to impossible, unless you pray for him having a bad day. You’re better off trying to run him out of the game. There are three guys on the team that hit Kazmir at a better than .130 clip, and Posada, Abreu and Cabrera are at .333 or above. All of those hitters have also walked 9 times. 38 strikeouts in their careers. That’s all in 129 plate appearances. Now, tell me about all of these walks NYY needs to get from him.
Boston bunted the Yanks crazy the other night. That’s how they beat him this year, bunts and stolen bases and then forced a mistake.
Drawing walks against minor league pitchers isn’t like trying to draw walks against accomplished ML pitchers. You’re talking about getting Kazmir out of the game early, but, they also happen to have one of the top bullpens in baseball.
It’s not about walks. It is about getting on base. There are 2 main methods we are having issue with.
Method 1 to reach Base: Bat Like You Normally Do
Method 2: Bunt for a hit
Which method is likely to result in the higher probability of reaching base??
Either way, regardless of whether you are Jeter or Abreu or Gardner or melky or Cano, taking your nomral approach will result in a better chance of reaching base. Since it is Kazmir pitching, that probability probably won’t be very high. However, it is still much higher than trying to bunt for a hit. If bunting for a base hit was a high-percentage play you would see it much more frequently. But you don’t see it done frequently because it is a dumb strategy.
“Boston bunted the Yanks crazy the other night. That’s how they beat him this year, bunts and stolen bases and then forced a mistake.”
No, Boston has outpitched and outhit the Yankees in head to head games this year. That’s why they won more games. And are you now suggesting that this Bunt Like Crazy method of yours is a viable stratgey against all pitchers? That is still insane.
Would you rather face Kazmir or the bullpen? I’d rather face the bullpen. They are good, but Kazmir is the one of the elite pitchers in baseball.
Do you remember at all how the Yankees had so much success against Pedro? They mostly beat his bullpen, not him. They certainly didn’t bunt like crazy. Trying to string together several bunt hits in a row is even more insane than doing it just once.
Get the starter out of the game, then deal with the bullpen.
And drawing walks in the minors is very meaningful. It means that gardner has a zone where he will not swing his bat if the ball is not in the zone he likes. That is something that will appear at the big league level as well. if the ball aint in the strike zone, chances are he wont swing at it.
Well I got to get some sleep, so in closing all I want to say is…bunting for a base hit is a dumb idea. It is so obvious, I am genuinely shocked that you can’t understand that.
Boston has beaten the Yankees exactly one more time than the Yanks have beaten them.
Gardner won’t be benched since everybody, including Girardi, wants to see how the kid does against the nasty Rays-Pitcher.
Gardner was a better hitter vs. LHP than he was against RHP’s in the minors. Don’t know whether this season is a deviation from the norm, but he had a .900+ OPS vs. lefties and was sub .800 vs righties.
Was I sleeping when Scott Kazmir became Sandy Koufax? I know he’s really good, but he doesn’t even lead his own team in wins, strikeouts or ERA. 7-3 2.63 is very good, but a HR every 12 innings isn’t dominating. He has not gone 6 innings in any of his last four starts while posting a 4.87 ERA.
I’m in favor of getting guys out of the game who are miserable against this guy. That means Giambi and Jeter don’t need to be out there. How about this:
Gardner 8
Cabrera 9
Abreu DH
A-Rod 5
Posada 3
Cano 4
Betemit 6
Molina 2
Christian 7
Why not? Replace Cabrera with Jeter and Betemit with Cabrera if you can’t stand leaving out the Captain.
The team speed of the Rays wins them a lot of games on both sides of the field. Yankee pitchers should know this and be prepared.
They didn’t get to 1st place with mirrors. A fundamentally sound team.
The Yankees will need to be creative and keep pushing runners over.
These next two games against the Rays will be tough. I just hope they can win one. Win both and I will be thrilled.
Wow, the TB Rays and being a tough opponent..who would have thunk it..
With Fat Sid on the hill tomorrow, Andy needs to be dandy.
I think Girardi starts Gardner against Kazmir. He has been tough against lefties in the minors, granted no one was in Kazmir’s league
Why is Ponson even pitching? We had a day off yesterday and have 4 days off coming up. Really Joe? Sidney Ponson?
If Brett Gardner is 70% the player that Juan Pierre is, I will be happy.
Kazmir isn’t that good.
Perff -
The reason Pettitte is moved up is so he can also start the last game before the ASB, rather than give Ponson another start. That alone mitigates your matchup concerns.