Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 08, 2008 
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Sam Borden talked to the happiest guy in the world, Stu Sternberg, the owner of the first-place Rays.
Kyle Farnsworth heard the cheers on Sunday night. This notebook also has updates on Hideki Matsui, Brian Bruney, Humberto Sanchez and Jason Giambi.
3AM!
kyle deserves the cheers right now. i can’t complain
Seeing Farnsworth produce quotes longer than the standard 4 to 5 words is revealing. He does seem to have some confidence back and it will be important that he pitches well down the stretch.
I miss old Joe Torre.
Look at him managing LA Dodger which has climbed to the leading position of NL West. Look at him! Marvellous!
Giambi is lagging Dye and Langoria in the voting……
Let us all keep voting until he wins the voting….
There is no limit to how many times we can vote.
“Giambi is lagging Dye and Langoria in the voting……
Let us all keep voting until he wins the voting…”
ive done my part this morning. hopefully everyone else here will do the same.
i couldnt imagine a better scene than 55K+ people wearing big, fake luigi mustaches while Giambi is crushing HRs during the derby. great stuff.
Girardi’s Yankees are actually three games better than Torre’s Dodgers despite Torre getting to manage in the dramatically weaker National League and, on top of that the weakest division in the weaker league. AL teams won almost 66 % of interleague games this year.
The Post has a smoking front page:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07082008/frontback.htm
Steve you have to be kidding me! His team is still under .500 and it only tied for first cause his division stinks!!
And one of the reasons that the pitcher was nearly perfect against the Braves was cause they played a 17 inning game the day before and had to fly out to the west coast!
I’m actually shocked he let the pitcher finish the game. Usually he runs out there and removes the pitcher.
turntwo- I think the Yankees should had out fake ‘staches with ballots to all fans entering the stadium tonight.
quick someone call the Yankees PR department!!
Did Madonna Injure A-Rod?
Tuesday, July 08, 2008
By Roger Friedman
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377627,00.html
This is just insanity
Girardi is very supportive of his players and loyal, maybe to a fault. Torre was loyal to the veterans. It’s hard to judge the two this year. Torre would have trouble managing this Yankee team. The lack of clutch hitting all year is something no manager can help. But if the hitting comes around, we have a better bullpen than we’ve had in years.
Don Vito
That has to be the stupidest article I’ve read! Suggesting that Alex’s quad strain was because of Madonna!!
I think it was cause he tried to come back too soon and he injuried it worse.
And Alex might be a lieing cheating dog, but all this coverage is getting a little crazy! Enough is enough. Are we going to get updates every day from this friend or that friend?
If you can call it the high road, I think Alex should take it in this case, keep your mouth shut. Tell your friends to keep their mouths shut. Don’t get into a war of words through the media you will only fuel the fire.
Jennifer -
The least they could have done in the article was to get ARod’s injury correct. They called it a groin injury, when we all know it was a quad injury!
Doreen- I missed that!!
I guess that is why they were blaming Madonna!! But C-Rods lawyer already said it wasn’t a sexual affair! And it looked as though they were incinuating that he was busy getting busy while he was ‘missing’.
Can anyone find the dolts email address. I’d like to tell him to stick to entertainment reporting. Or he should at least get his facts straight!
“Girardi’s Yankees are actually three games better than Torre’s Dodgers despite Torre getting to manage in the dramatically weaker National League and, on top of that the weakest division in the weaker league”
Torre also has a weaker team. He’s the stronger manager til Girardi accomplishes something.
“If you can call it the high road, I think Alex should take it in this case, keep your mouth shut”
Arod doesn’t have “high road” character from what I’ve seen. Plus, Cynthia seems like one who won’t play this quietly or cleanly. A woman scorned and all that stuff. I imagine Arod’s peeps will keep fighting fire with fire.
“Torre also has a weaker team.”
Yeah, no team can match up to the sweet rotation that injuries have left Girardi. And his awesome middle infield and CFer.
The Yankees made Torre, not the other way around.
“Yeah, no team can match up to the sweet rotation that injuries have left Girardi. And his awesome middle infield and CFer.”
Plenty can. Dodgers aren’t one of them though.
“The Yankees made Torre, not the other way around.”
Some truth in that, but he is “made”. Girardi is not.
“The Yankees made Torre, not the other way around.”
don’t hate on torre you bum. he is legendary.
Jennifer having dealt with Roger Friedman many many times it is not worth sending him an email the type of article he wrote pretty much speaks for itself not sure why all of the sudden facts should get in the way of his reporting. Sort of like sending an email to Page 6 reporters doesnt mean much of anything
“The Yankees made Torre, not the other way around.â€
that is some revisionist history, my friend. wow.
just because it was time to part ways, it does not mean the twelve previous years were just smoke and mirrors.
Jennifer
There is a respond button between the headline and the body of the story if you want to respond to something in the Fox story. They also neglect to mention that some of the DL stint was spent in Tampa and not NY.
How is it revisionist history? What kind of a manager was he before he came to the Yankees?
How is it revisionist history? What kind of a manager was he before he came to the Yankees?
Jennifer
There is a “respond” to click on at the top of the page between the writers name and the body of the article if you want to respond.
The time he spent in Tampa rehabbing would also account for some of the missing time they are trying to reconstruct on their timeline unless he was commuting daily to FL from NYC. But hey, anything is possible.
‘How is it revisionist history? What kind of a manager was he before he came to the Yankees?”
Bout the same kind of team the Yankees were in the 80′s and early 90′s. Certainly Stick and Showalter are most responsible for building the teams that won the the titles (aided by the domineering Boss being banished for awhile), but Torre had to steer the ship. Not everyone could do it.
Rays are playing well but they better be careful not to trip on their “swagger”.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07.....118973.htm
This Friedman yo-yo and his story??? Didn’t it start with the following sentence: “Lets start an urban legend.”
Not like this guy is passing off this stuff as anything more than speculation. It’s stupid and immature, but that’s his audience.
Please don’t bother emailing the writer of the article – they will see any response from a reader, positive or negative, as a “win”
All they care about is ‘moving the needle’ and drawing attention. Don’t give them the satisfaction.
this is super off topic but i’ve heard the Yankees are looking into Burnett and Garcia.. what are the chances that we will get one of those guys and if we do who do you like more?
“Rays are playing well but they better be careful not to trip on their “swaggerâ€.”
While I have no doubt the Rays players are playing with a very high level of condfidence right now, the only guy outwardly displaying it is Maddon. He’s doing a nice job with that group and has them believing themselves like never before. After years of laying down and dying whenever the Yankees or Red Sox opposed them, the Rays come and play these teams straight up (11-11 in 22 games vs. NYY and Bos). They respect them, but don’t give them too much respect and certainly no longer fear them. Maddon is the MOY to me right now in a runaway.
“this is super off topic but i’ve heard the Yankees are looking into Burnett and Garcia.. what are the chances that we will get one of those guys and if we do who do you like more?”
Definitely like Burnett more. At the top of his game, he’s great. Sadly, he’s quite inconsistent. Have a hard time believing the Jays will deal him in the division though.
Garcia is a Colon-like crapshoot. You just have no clue what you might get. He was never the same after Ozzie grinded about 475 innings out of him over ’05-’06. I think the Yanks can get as good from SWB.
Agree that Maddon has these guys thinking they can run through walls but Floyd and Kazmir’s comments in that story make them sound a little swagger-y. No big deal, Yankees are desperate. While they may believe that, not sure you say it.
There is an article in today’s NY Post by Kevin Kiernan in which he writes that “A-Rod centers more around baseball when he has troubles in life.” That will mean good things for the Yankees and us fans.
Good for one NY Post reporter in getting to the thing that interests us Yankee fans about Alex during this time… will he be okay on the field.
LMAO at “Colon-like crapshoot” talk about a double-entendre – or is that a triple entendre?
“Definitely like Burnett more. At the top of his game, he’s great. Sadly, he’s quite inconsistent.”
And injured frequently.
His contract makes him the worst of all worlds. If you trade for him and he’s hot down the stretch, he opts out and you lose him. If he sucks or gets hurt, he keeps his deal and you’re stuck with him.
It’s basically as risky as possible. The Yankees are NOT one big acquisition away. They can’t even put together a stretch of consistent baseball…if the offense was clicking and they were just getting out-pitched, ok then make a deal. If they were consistently holding down other offenses and just needed a run-producer…ok.
But what’s the point of moving for a Harden, Burnett, Sabathia, etc if that’s not going to put the team over the top?
“A-Rod centers more around baseball when he has troubles in life.†That will mean good things for the Yankees and us fans.”
He showed that last year when he got bagged chasing the blonde bimbo (in Toronto, I think?). He’s got no soul. For our purposes, that’s a good thing.
“Maddon is the MOY to me right now in a runaway.”
In the AL maybe but overall its gotta be Tony La Russa. The Rays have a ton of young talent, St. Louis not so much. La Russa and Duncan have taken a bunch of scrubs plus Pujols and turned that team into a contender.
Um shut up Cliff, you just signed there this year. YOu have no business speaking.
Since when did the Rays ever lay down and die while playing the RS or Yankees? Those games were like their WS games to them.
Maddon has a done a decent job with that team, but it will be interesting to see what happens if they have some struggles.
“But what’s the point of moving for a Harden, Burnett, Sabathia, etc if that’s not going to put the team over the top?”
The only reason I could think is that a move like that might be necessary to make the playoffs. Then at least the Yanks have a shot. As we know, teams that get hot at the right time are the ones that win in the playoffs (Colorado, St. Louis in recent years).
Sabathia wasn’t worth the cost, Harden won’t be either. Burnett seems like the kind of pitcher the Yanks would go after if he wasn’t in the same division. The reason I say that is because it would basically be a salary dump and he has the potential to be an ace down the stretch. I highly doubt the Yankees will get him though.
Patrick:
LaRussa has done remarkably well that team. Wouldn’t surprise me if the wheels come off a bit as I’d expect Ludwick, Looper and other overachievers to come back to earth a bit. He’s the man in the NL for sure right now.
I saw a scroll on ESPN (?) that the Cubs are going after Harden?
“Um shut up Cliff, you just signed there this year. YOu have no business speaking.”
i realize he’s new to the team, but his attitude is part of the reason why they’ve become real contenders this year. dont underestimate the presence of the veteran leadership on that club.
its exactly the type of thing i would expect Cliff to say, and until the Yankees prove they can beat the Rays (wow, thats weird to type), i dont expect the Rays to back down now.
I got a ticket to the All star game! But it is not a ticket stub, just one of those tickets printed off from the internet. Does anyone know if the Yankees will give you a stub? I don’t get to go to any games, so I want to make this one special.
Doreen, I wouldn’t be surprised. After the Brewers got CC it changed the equation, so this would be like a keeping up with the “Jones” type move.
The Cubs are in a win it this year mode along with the Brewers. Once seeing how poorly the Mets came out of the gate those two teams see a big opening.
“Sabathia wasn’t worth the cost, Harden won’t be either. Burnett seems like the kind of pitcher the Yanks would go after if he wasn’t in the same division”
Think Sabathia was worth it to the Brewers, who had the luxury of dealing from a surplus. They got it done early too, which means 15-16 starts instead of 10-11 that you’d get doing it at the deadline.
Harden to me will be almost impossible to trade. A’s will market him as the healthy Harden and demand the world (read: close to a Sabathia-like deal) while rival GM’s will make offers based on the risky Harden who is a pitch away from injury. I think he ends the year in Oakland.
“i realize he’s new to the team, but his attitude is part of the reason why they’ve become real contenders this year. dont underestimate the presence of the veteran leadership on that club.”
Percival applies there too.
Of course I always hope this team wins. But I hope we knock Kazmir out in the first inning and Cliff wears the golden sombreo.
“The Cubs are in a win it this year mode along with the Brewers.”
although, i would say the cubs are different in the sense that if they dont win it this year, they still have the majority of their major pieces coming back next season.
if the Brewers dont win it this year, it might be the last for a couple years, until they can develop or trade for pitching to contend again. there is no doubt they’ll have the offense to contend to the next couple years at least.
“LaRussa has done remarkably well that team. Wouldn’t surprise me if the wheels come off a bit as I’d expect Ludwick, Looper and other overachievers to come back to earth a bit. He’s the man in the NL for sure right now.”
Maybe.. Looper actually had a decent year last year as as starter; 12-12 with a 4.94 ERA. Pretty good if he were a fifth starter. Right now he’s at 9-6 4.15 era so who knows maybe he’ll fall off a bit.
I actually think the Cards have a chance considering they might be getting Wainwright, Mulder and Carpenter back. Its a long shot but with those 3 healthy they could have the best pitching in the league.
“Percival applies there too.”
agreed. i just include him under the “veteran leadership” umbrella.
“I saw a scroll on ESPN (?) that the Cubs are going after Harden?”
Wonder whether the Cubs have the resources in their system to get it done. Gallagher, Pie and Vitters are generally regarded as their top prospects and Pie’s stock has fallen and Vitters is years away.
Pete,
I just wrote this over at RiverAve. Blues, and I figured you (and the rest of the readers) may have an opinion on this, so I’m reposting here.
—
There’s one element which has not been discussed in the Yankee plans going forward (particularly from 2010 on). That element is Cuba.
As we all know, Cuba is subject to a U.S. embargo. As we also know, Fidel Castro has stepped down (he’s still around, but his brother seems to be the big guy now, and he seems a little more pragmatic).
There is a high likelihood that Obama will win the U.S. Presidential election, AND (check http://www.fivethirtyeight.com), Florida does not seem to be pivotal to Obama’s electoral chances (if he wins Florida, it’s already a landslide. If he doesn’t, he may well still win soundly).
I submit that Obama will almost certainly change U.S. policy vis-a-vis Cuba, perhaps as early as 2009.
When U.S. policy towards Cuba changes, MLB teams surely will be in there like hawks trying to sign-up players. It’s no given that Cuba will allow players to leave immediately, but for the sake of the argument, let’s say that it does.
I’m not sure if there are any All-Star level players in Cuba right now (othen than Gurriel), but surely the 2009 Baseball World Cup will show us the best Cuban players, and there’ll be surprises.
I am convinced that there a number of MLB level players in Cuba, and surely there are a lot of young prospects which can get to be MLB level players (or even all stars) if they face a higher level of competition.
The long and short of this is that there is a legitimate chance that the Cuban player spigot will open up by 2010, and I would think that the Yankees should ready to pounce (from reading the Duke of Havana and Michael Lewis’ great Vanity Fair piece on Cuban Baseball, it’s pretty clear that the Yankees are one of the most liked – if not the most liked – MLB team in Cuba, which will surely help Yankee chances of signing good players from Cuba).
Now of course this is just a pipe dream, and to paraphrase Harold McMillan, we should all beware of events, dear boy, events.
But the Yankees surely should have a Cuba strategy in place, especially if Obama wins the U.S. Presidential election (or if Fidel dies and/or Raúl Castro opens up the country materially).
“Think Sabathia was worth it to the Brewers, who had the luxury of dealing from a surplus. They got it done early too, which means 15-16 starts instead of 10-11 that you’d get doing it at the deadline. ”
I disagree. Overall I think the market for starting pitching is way overpriced. Laporta can hit in the majors right now and the Brewers had him under control for like 5-6 years right? That kid is going to be a 4 or 5 hitter in the majors. I just don’t think a few months of Sabathia is worth that kind of talent. Especially from the Yankees standpoint, they would have had to give up Hughes, Jackson, ?. No way in heck thats worth Sabathia.
I think the Cubs are so focused on winning this season partially because of that 100-year thing. Of course they want to win anyway, but if they win this year they can put a nice period at the end of the century and then move on.
Is it necessariy a foregone conclusion that CC won’t sign with the Brewers after the season? What if they win? Or what if he actually LIKES it there? My feeling is that whoever got him in trade had an advantage in signing him for next season, provided they wanted to spend the money. And if CC does really, really well for them, who’s to say Milwaukee definitively won’t spend the money to keep him?
“if the Brewers dont win it this year, it might be the last for a couple years, until they can develop or trade for pitching to contend again. there is no doubt they’ll have the offense to contend to the next couple years at least.”
Agreed. They’ll have a potential ace in Gallardo and Manny Parra looks like he’ll be a good one, but they are looking at rebuilding that rotation around those two if both Sheets and Sabathia move on.
“I saw a scroll on ESPN (?) that the Cubs are going after Harden?”
The Cubs will try to get him but it’s very unlikely they’ll be able to pull off the deal.
They have very little minor league talent. Nowhere near the kind of talent that Beane will be looking for.
Look at what he got for Harden. That’s was just a phenomenal deal for Oakland. He’s already said that’s the kind of deal he wants for Harden.
Cubs have nowhere near that kind of young, cost controlled talent to trade.
I think the Brew-Crew is right to make a big effort this year given the status of Prince Fielder (refusing to commit to a deal like Braun did).
When you are a smaller market team, I think you owe it to your fan base to try to catch lightning in a bottle. Apparently there was some disagreement among the front office of the Brewers as to whether LaPorta was going to be their best hitting prospect or not.
Given their relative strength in hitting talent throughout the system a deal for a rental makes sense to me.
Sorry, meant to write, “Look at what they go for Haren…”
Patrick:
Again, Brewers had a surplus. Fielder, Braun, Hart, Gamel are going to be around for years. Arguably Hart could play CF, thus opening up a spot in RF for LaPorta, but his OF play is somewhat marginal as I understand it. Yankees didn’t have that luxury and aren’t in a the middle of a 26 year absence from the postseason.
Brewers needed to make this commitment to their fans.
“who’s to say Milwaukee definitively won’t spend the money to keep him?”
their organizational history.
the largest contract theyve ever given to a player was to Ryan Braun this past year, and it was for like $45 million. they’d have to more than double that to give to CC to keep him in Milwaukee.
i wouldnt say there is no chance he stays, but its about as unlikely as can be.
completely agree, Fredo. theyve grown their fan base, and ticket sales, the past couple years. this is basically throwing them a bone to say thanks, and lets give it a go.
gotta respect that from the Brewers.
How does everyone feel about trading for Harden?
I would trade a package of Hughes/Melky or Kennedy/Melky in a heartbeat.
Doreen,
Everyone (with credentials) has said that Sabathia will head west to the Dodgers or Angels
So of course, that means he’ll end up in the Bronx.
Tough to beat the “you could throw out the first pitch in the new Yankee Stadium” angle.
“Brewers needed to make this commitment to their fans.”
I didn’t say the Brewers made the wrong move. I’m pretty impressed that they took such a risk in an effort to make the playoffs and appease the fans.
That doesn’t discount the fact that Matt Laporta straight up is worth more than 14 starts from Sabathia, let alone Laporta + 3 prospects. It doesn’t matter what kind of depth the Brewers have. They overpayed for Sabathia, theres no way you can argue that.
Turn Two -
Do they not have the money? Or do they make a conscious effort to stay within a set budget?
So right now Milwaukee has Sabathia and Sheets? And both are free agents after this season? And they don’t have any pitching prospects? This is what I’ve gathered from reading here over time. So, if they don’t win it all, or at least get to the WS, this season, and they make no effort to keep either of these big name pitchers, they’re setting themselves back a couple of years, no?
Are they so position-player-prospect rich that they will trade in the off-season for pitching prospects or just-about-ML-ready pitchers?
(And I can’t believe I’m even asking any of these questions, because I don’t care about the Brewers!
I guess it’s just interesting conversation.)
“I would trade a package of Hughes/Melky or Kennedy/Melky in a heartbeat.”
I’d guess the A’s would take the former, but not the latter.
“I would trade a package of Hughes/Melky or Kennedy/Melky in a heartbeat.”
No way I would trade Hughes for Harden and no way Kennedy and Melky gets you Harden.
He’s also an injury waiting to happen IMO.
I don’t want CC and I don’t see myself changing my mind. But, if the Yankees get him, I will jump on the CC bandwagon and cheer him on. What else can you do?
Mel -
I don’t want Sabathia throwing out the first pitch in the new Stadium. I want it to be either Pettitte, if he stays, or Wang. Not someone new. Is that silly? Maybe so.
Doreen,
As I understand it, Milwaukee has a lot of hitting prospects but not as many good pitching prospects. However, they do have two promising starters in Manny Parra and Yovani Gallardo. Also don’t forget if (and when) they lose Sheets and Sabathia they will get 4 extra draft picks.
“That doesn’t discount the fact that Matt Laporta straight up is worth more than 14 starts from Sabathia, let alone Laporta + 3 prospects. It doesn’t matter what kind of depth the Brewers have. They overpayed for Sabathia, theres no way you can argue that.”
I don’t think they overpaid for him. Who knows how good Matt Laporta will be in the bigs. That plus the fact that they have other bats in the minors makes it palatable for both parties.
They will have multiple picks in the first round next year, they can easily draft the next Matt Laporta.
“No way I would trade Hughes for Harden and no way Kennedy and Melky gets you Harden.
He’s also an injury waiting to happen IMO.”
And Hughes isnt?
Granted Hughes injuries havent been arm injuries but Harden is already at Ace level. Hughes is starting over again.
Oakland would get a young cost controller major league ready pitcher and we Harden whos already a top of the rotation guy.
It’s a gamble but a worthy one IMO.
Sabathia, Harden, Wang, Harden , Joba
!
Sabathia, Harden, Wang, Joba , Pettitte*
How many times have we gone over this, Philip Hughes is an untouchable. He’s 21 and can pitch at a high level at that age you don’t deal that for quick fixes, Especially Carl Pavano the 2nd in Oakland.
“Are they so position-player-prospect rich that they will trade in the off-season for pitching prospects or just-about-ML-ready pitchers?”
they do have a fairly loaded AA roster, so they could afford to move LaPorta.
“Do they not have the money? Or do they make a conscious effort to stay within a set budget?”
i would lean more towards the latter than the former, but ive heard the new owner say recently they wont be afraid to spend the money for the right player. i just dont buy it, though. signing Sabathia long term to a huge deal could be crippling to that organization should something happen a year or two into a 5 or 6 year deal.
“they’re setting themselves back a couple of years, no?”
yeah, but they figured this would happen with Sheets leaving anyway. they just saw the window of opportunity and decided to run with it this year.
“Tough to beat the “you could throw out the first pitch in the new Yankee Stadium†angle.”
That cuts both ways. That same pitcher could be the one to give up the first walk, hit, homer, etc.
“Sabathia, Harden, Wang, Harden , Joba”
Harden becomes an even greater risk pitching TWICE every 5 days, no???
Harden is the best pitcher when healthy.But we got enough HIgh Ceiling high risk pitchers.
But I would make the deal and still get Freddy Garcia as backup.
think about it from the brewers perspecitve. getting to the playoffs, let alone possibly advancing far into them is a huge boost for the brewers. the franchise needs cc, even if he is just a rental.
Hughes is going no where. it would take waaaay more than kennedy and melky. harden is too risky. wait and take cc in the winter, its that easy.
Sabathia, wang, joba (3 ace-types) the hughes (ace potential) kennedy/horne (either could be a great 5th starter). not to mention we could resign either moose or pettite
The Brewers have to figure out a way to keep the Boras client Prince Fielder for the long-term (IIRC he is arbitration eligible next year).
That has to be priority #1 for them if they want their fans to be happy.
“They will have multiple picks in the first round next year, they can easily draft the next Matt Laporta.”
absolutely. people wondered why they took LaPorta when they did, figuring they were going to have Fielder playing 1B the next couple years anyway. but thats what happens when you simply take the best player available… he was the best college bat left, and while they didnt necessarily think they had a need for him in the immediate future, things change quickly.
just another example of how to make your farm system work for you… not everyone has to be called up and perform on the MLB level to make a difference. you use some prospects to build your team from within, and others to import the right piece when you feel you are close.
ajax got eastern league prospect of the day, always nice to see:
Prospect of the Day
“Trenton (Yankees) center fielder Austin Jackson, the No. 2 prospect in the Yankees’ system, showed evidence of progress Monday. He hit his 21st double of the year, scored once and knocked in two runs. An eighth-round pick straight out of Denton (Texas) High School, Jackson was known as a raw athlete who swings the bat hard. He also has a plus arm in the outfield, which was shown Monday when he threw out a runner at the plate.”
I wouldn’t trade Hughes for Harden, just because of the injury concerns on Harden. If he had any level of durability, you do that deal in a second. Hughes may or may not turn out to be a quality pitcher – none of us know that yet – but Harden is a bonifed ace when he’s healthy.
It’s really discouraging that Hughes is going to be pushed back to September. This is an absolute lost season for both he and Kennedy. They’ve got to find a way to keep Hughes healthy.
“I don’t think they overpaid for him. Who knows how good Matt Laporta will be in the bigs. That plus the fact that they have other bats in the minors makes it palatable for both parties. ”
Like I said, it doesn’t matter what else the Brewers have in their system. If you look at the deal by itself, Laporta + 3 other prospects is worth more than 3 months of Sabathia + 2 draft picks. Also, given the way he is tearing AA apart, it is very likely Laporta will be a great hitter in MLB.
I’m not saying the Brewers got ripped off, I’m just commenting that the market for starting pitchers is way overpriced. That was the point of my initial comment if you go back to my first post.
I think Prince Fielder is more important to their organization than any pitcher. People will come out to see the long ball more than to see good pitching. If they are going to spend money on a player, I think it would be more likely Prince than CC.
“I think Prince Fielder is more important to their organization than any pitcher. People will come out to see the long ball more than to see good pitching. If they are going to spend money on a player, I think it would be more likely Prince than CC.”
Fielder is under their control for another three seasons after this. He’ll have arbitration rights though.
“How does everyone feel about trading for Harden?
I would trade a package of Hughes/Melky or Kennedy/Melky in a heartbeat.”
no thanks.
just curious, k-rod ’09?
I liked Laporta a ton more than Gamel, who was also a controversial pick. His defense is a liability.
I wouldn’t trade Hughes for Harden, just because of the injury concerns on Harden. If he had any level of durability, you do that deal in a second.
That’s where we disagree, from the looks of it Cashman is trying this fiscal approach when it comes to the rotation. Harden is soon to have a big pay day, meanwhile Hughes is still controlled for the next 4-5 yrs. under his terms as a player. This move would not only not make sense but it also would be taking a step back instead of moving forward, Harden 26 for Phil Hughes 22 is not exactly an upgrade, this would be a win now approach an approach this franchise is not willing to do anymore.
“just curious, k-rod ‘09?”
Nope. He won’t go where he can’t close and the Yanks aren’t dropping $13M-$14M on a set up guy, when they can pay the likes of Melancon, Robertson, etc. $400K to set up.
makes sense
I would shy away from K-Rod due to injury concerns and due to Melancon on the horizon. As Robertson has shown, the Yankees have a ton on options for the bullpen.
just curious, k-rod ‘09?
He is going to break open FA spending, meanwhile SU is not our problem. And we have CL options Mark Melancon, Humberto Sanchez to name a few.
“Harden 26 for Phil Hughes 22 is not exactly an upgrade”
On sheer talent it is.
Fiscally??? No.
“And Hughes isnt?
Granted Hughes injuries havent been arm injuries but Harden is already at Ace level. Hughes is starting over again.
Oakland would get a young cost controller major league ready pitcher and we Harden whos already a top of the rotation guy.
It’s a gamble but a worthy one IMO.”
Hughes may be injury prone but I’d still rather have him than Harden.
Hughes is still a kid and he’s never had arm problems before so I’d prefer to take my chances with him being healthy over Harden.
“this would be a win now approach an approach this franchise is not willing to do anymore.”
although i wonder if its the strategy, or the fact that Cashman is so tied to Hughes right now that there’s no chance he’d move him now.
Anyone have a rough timetable on the return of some of our injured players? This is purely speculative, of course, at this point:
July 20
Johnny Damon
July 20
Hideki Matsui
August 1
Ian Kennedy
(possible replacement for Ponson)
September 1
Phil Hughes
(possible replacement for Rasner)
How are we going to keep pace with boston and tampa with only Pettitte, Moose and Joba until Aug/Sep?
We wouldn’t sign K-Rod nor would he really want to sign with us. I don’t think we would give him the money he wants and we don’t have that big an issue in the bullpen. Plus, he wants to close and I don’t think we that opening unless for two years. But, we would have Humberto Sanchez, Cox, Melancon, and others from teh minors to fill out the bullpen in 09
“Hughes may be injury prone but I’d still rather have him than Harden.”
but Hughes doesnt have near the same stuff as Harden does on the mound, either.
its a high risk, high reward type move… seems like Cashman has become much more conservative in his approach, so i wouldnt expect him to make such a deal.
but considering Joba has turned out well in the rotation, and going forward you have Wang, and prob at least Pettitte for 2009, i think a Hughes for Harden acquisition should be ruled out completely.
you figure, Hughes is starting out at square one, again, next season. which means he’ll be limited in innings under the organizational philosophy, and prob not be able to really be let loose until 2010, earliest.
I forgot the possibility of Bruney returning.
And I left off Pavano.
I think it would be a tough thing for Cashman to give up on Hughes after passing on using him for Santana. (I know there was the money issue as well as the prospects). Hughes has been a piece of the puzzle for the future of the Yankees, you don’t give that up easily.
shouldnt** be ruled out completely.
If you would do Hughes/Melky or Kennedy/Melky in a heartbeat, than more than likely Beane would not. He’d probably START with Hughes/AJax/Melancon. Think of what the A’s reaped in the Haren deal. I’d expect Beane would do no less than that for Harden.
Forgot Bruney possibly returning. And I left out Pavano, on purpose.
“How are we going to keep pace with boston and tampa with only Pettitte, Moose and Joba until Aug/Sep?”
By hitting a little???
although i wonder if its the strategy, or the fact that Cashman is so tied to Hughes right now that there’s no chance he’d move him now.
Seems like a strategy to me. I think the Pavano deal and Randy Johnson deal made him think WTF lets make our own Aces instead of overspending in the market atleast a 21 -26 year old has upside over the middle age SP options that come out in the market.
The bullpen is going to be a spot where we can save some bank next year with young guys like Robertson, Melancon, and Cox. I also think Strickland could be successful in the bigs. He’s posted decent numbers for bad teams in the majors.
IDK why but I got a feeling JB Cox is going to be traded.
Are the Yankees planning on starting or relieving H. Sanchez when he returns?
I agree about Cox. I feel like everyone thinks his upside is so much bigger than Robertson’s but Robertson has flown under the radar until recently. Cox go to pitch is his slider but when Robertson is dealing, his fastball has a lot of slider action. He’s also got a little more velocity and no injury history. Cox also has a history of being a dick. That move wouldn’t upset me if it helps them team.
Austin Jackson could be a great one some day, probably stepping into the every day lineup in 2010 when Matsui/Damon contracts expire.
There will be no trades for mid-season rental types.. the Yanks are out of that business. If AJ Burnett could be had cheap (and with a waiver of his opt-out) that would be a HUGE improvement over Rasner/Ponson but can’t see Toronto doing that… but they are desperate for a SS so maybe Gonzo and two B-list pitchers gets it done. Probably not.
Harden is too unpredictable for me… those of you who don’t want CC are nuts.
Don’t worry about the first pitch in the new Stadium… it will be a Yankee veteran for sure… Pettite, Wang, Joba or Mussina in that order of likelyhood.
“They will have multiple picks in the first round next year, they can easily draft the next Matt Laporta.”
It’s reasonable to say the Sabbathia deal was a fair one for both teams in terms of talent.
But its just not accurate to say that LaPorta will be easy to replace in any way.
He’s probably one of the 5 best prospects in the game and may be the single best hitter not in the major leagues.
The probability of finding that kind of player in any draft regardless of how good a team is in the draft (and the brewers are very good) is extremely low.
Here what a scout said of La Porta:
“I talked to a scout about him just the other day and he said, ‘Look, he’s a thumper.’ There’s no question in his mind. The guy is a true middle-of-the-order hitter. That’s not the kind of projection you put on a whole lot of players. When you do scouting and you project a role for a player, it’s always ‘on a championship team,’ and LaPorta projects as a middle-of-the-order hitter on a championship team. He has a mature, advanced, major league-level approach. He has massive power. He is a machine…”
So that player is not easy to replace at all, never mind in one draft no matter how many picks you have.
There’s also real opportunity cost to the Brewers to trading LaPorta as well. They could have held on to him and traded him for another pitcher who they could have kept long term. But they elected to trade him for a rental player which really increases their risk in the deal.
It’s a fair deal but La Porta is not a fungible talent.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ml?eref=T1
relieving and thier pairing him w/ Brian Brunney in GCL games and so far he’s out pitched Brunney
“IDK why but I got a feeling JB Cox is going to be traded.”
He’s been pretty piss poor since coming off the DL. His AAA numbers haven’t been especially good. Cash wouldn’t sell low, would he????
“its a high risk, high reward type move…”
The reward is just so very, very unlikely with Harden. After ALL that he’s been through, he’s just going to magically get better and start turning in 180 innings a season? I just don’t see it.
Doreen-
Are you a Grateful Dead fan?
Robertson threw a lot more innings than Cox has at AAA. I think if you lay off the slider, Cox has proven to be hittable.
You cannot trade Melky. He is our starting CF.
“Harden 26 for Phil Hughes 22 is not exactly an upgrade, this would be a win now approach an approach this franchise is not willing to do anymore.”
A 26-year old ace pitcher is a VERY desirable commodity versus a 22-year old who, at this point, is an unknown quantity.
Look, young pitchers struggle. But Hughes and, for that matter, Kennedy, have been terrible this year. Not only have they walked a ton of batters – but they’ve been hit hard as well. Not a good combo. Hughes displayed a fastball that topped out at about 90 mph. Whether that’s due to an injury, we don’t know. But Harden is a much, much better pitcher than Hughes right now. That’s just not up for debate. Much better fastball, much better stuff overall.
If Harden had the durability of say a Roy Halladay, it’d be silly not trade Hughes for him. But he doesn’t, so you don’t. Plus, Beane would ask for much more than Hughes.
He’s been pretty piss poor since coming off the DL. His AAA numbers haven’t been especially good. Cash wouldn’t sell low, would he????
No he wouldn’t sell low but he would sell if the depth at that spot is high. Another words if Brunney and Sanchez and Claggett make a run for the ML spot Cash would make Cox available in trade talks.
Robertson threw a lot more innings than Cox has at AAA. I think if you lay off the slider, Cox has proven to be hittable.
Notice Cox doesn’t strike people out and doesn’t have a great GO/FO ratio. Don’t know much more about him than his numbers, but off those I’m not giving much to get him. What’s his game supposed to be?????
“but considering Joba has turned out well in the rotation, and going forward you have Wang, and prob at least Pettitte for 2009, i think a Hughes for Harden acquisition should be ruled out completely.
you figure, Hughes is starting out at square one, again, next season. which means he’ll be limited in innings under the organizational philosophy, and prob not be able to really be let loose until 2010, earliest.”
For me Harden has to prove he’s healthy for a full year before I make any moves on him.
He’s been injured again this year already once, no?
I think Hughes’ limit will be the same as it was this year, (170)? That’s more than enough innings for a 4th/5th starter.
what is the word on horne recently. I know he came out of a game early a week or two ago. but they just said his arm was a bit sore. how has he been looking. any chance of bringing him up after the break
We aren’t making any trades because we don’t have the offensive thoroughbreds in the system that teams want. Ajax is it for the foreseeable future so he is deinitely untouchable. We have added some bats but Charleston and the like are a long way from the bigs.
A 26-year old ace pitcher is a VERY desirable commodity versus a 22-year old who, at this point, is an unknown quantity.
Look, young pitchers struggle. But Hughes and, for that matter, Kennedy, have been terrible this year. Not only have they walked a ton of batters – but they’ve been hit hard as well. Not a good combo. Hughes displayed a fastball that topped out at about 90 mph. Whether that’s due to an injury, we don’t know. But Harden is a much, much better pitcher than Hughes right now. That’s just not up for debate. Much better fastball, much better stuff overall.
So were assuming in Year 1 they are busts super.
A 26 yr. old would have less prime years left
Brandon – I agree on Cox. Yes he has a couple bad outings, but if he can throw a couple good ones in a row you have got to think he is on the way out. The Yankees have so many young relievers/prospects that you can sell high on a guy like Cox. He has up until the last week or so been lights out. We have Veras, Ramirez, Bruney, Robertson all on the big club or close to returning. You have Melancon, Claggett, Sanchez and a convert (Kontos, Mccutcheon, Horne) still to come. And the Scott Bittle kid who had scary sick numbers but who I know nothing about. Then you have some other guys who have the possiblity of helping Patterson, Strickland, Whelan, etc.
Every team will want relief help. I can certainly see the Yanks deal a package of a reliever or two and starter or two for a really nice piece for the big league club or a top notch position prospect.
I also so discussion elsewhere that maybe Melancon is being kept in AA to showcase someone for a trade. Considering how well he has done I doubt it will be him. Perhaps it is so Cox can get his reps at AAA.
discount the last sentence.
any word on when kennedy will be back?
Johnny – I disagree. Everyone wants pitching which is what the Yankees have. They almost have too much of it because they will have significant problems on the 40 man next year. Starting with a Cox and Jason Jones (who has been stellar at AA and his AAA start but might not be in the Yankees future) would be a good start to a package.
Regarding Torre, he will have a special place in Yankee land, but, he is in an awful league and division as are the Mets. The Toronto Blur Jays, last place in the AL East would win the NL West, and compete well in the NL East
Anyone else notice who gave up Paul O’Neil’s 3rd HR of the game in the replay game that is on YES??
Our bullpen coach Mike Harkey
“A 26 yr. old would have less prime years left”
but, we know what the potential for those prime years could be, and its very enticing.
i dont know if id do it, but im just saying its not that cut and dry.
You all make fine points about not trading for Harden. The injury bug is a scary one though I still think it’s a risk worth taking.
The Red Sox took a chance and traded a ton for the oft injured Beckett and it payed off BIG TIME. Harden has that kind of stuff and even if it didn’t work out the Yankees wouldn’t be faulted for it.
There’s no shame in going after young phenomenal pitching talent.
Cox and Jason Jones seem like typical B-list prospects that have some value, but they arent getting you anyone who is going to be a difference maker unless someone wants to dump salary.
But the Yanks are building a fine arsenal of inexpensive relievers who will have tremendous value in the trade market… Veras, Ramirez, Melancon, Glagett, Cox, Ohlendorf, Robertson, Britton, Bruney, Patterson and Phillips have all shown varying levels of ability. No more than five will be in the Yanks’ pen in ’09 which gives NY some trade options.
And the quality of starter candidates is going up as well with guys like Horne, McCutchen, Coke, Jones and Hacker… and you still have potential throw ins like Karstens, Marquez, Igawa and Rasner….
Pitching depth could well be used to acquire positional player talent.
but i agree that it seems like JB Cox could be one of those wild cards Cashman might be holding out hope to include in a deal. the fact that he’s struggling at the wrong time here at the deadline is prob getting him a little nuts.
“Cox and Jason Jones seem like typical B-list prospects that have some value, but they arent getting you anyone who is going to be a difference maker unless someone wants to dump salary.”
Agreed. They’re pieces not centerpieces.
Igawa?
Come on now
“The Red Sox took a chance and traded a ton for the oft injured Beckett and it payed off BIG TIME. ”
Beckett had never had any arm/shoulder injuries from what I understand. Harden has pitched over 180IP’s once in his career, he hasn’t been the same since.
That’s too risky if you ask me.
Our pithcing depth could have land a positional player but not a talented player but someone that could be a key piece. Cash got Molina last year for Kennard. I would look for more of the same.
Here’s Harden’s injury history since he was called up to the majors in 2005. It’s really astonishing:
Date Transaction
May 11, 2008 Recalled from minors rehab
May 11, 2008 Removed from 15-day DL
May 01, 2008 Sent to minors for rehabilitation
April 10, 2008 Placed on 15-day DL (Right shoulder strain)
October 08, 2008 Removed from 60-day DL
August 22, 2007 Transferred to 60-day DL
July 12, 2007 Placed on 15-day DL (Strained right shoulder)
July 12, 2007 Placed on 15-day DL (Strained right shoulder)
June 22, 2007 Recalled from minors rehab
June 22, 2007 Removed from 15-day DL
June 20, 2007 Sent to minors for rehabilitation
April 23, 2007 Placed on 15-day DL (Right shoulder strain)
September 21, 2006 Removed from 15-day DL
June 08, 2006 Placed on 15-day DL (Ligament sprain, right elbow)
June 04, 2006 Recalled from minors rehab
June 04, 2006 Removed from 15-day DL
May 31, 2006 Sent to minors for rehabilitation
April 28, 2006 Placed on 15-day DL (Strained back muscle, out 3-6)
June 21, 2005 Recalled from minors rehab
June 21, 2005 Removed from 15-day DL
June 17, 2005 Sent to minors for rehabilitation
May 15, 2005 Placed on 15-day DL (Strained left oblique)
March 03, 2005 Signed with Oakland Athletics
CB,
That’s a lot of injuries.
CB – Mutliple right shoulders strains and ligament strain right elbow are really not a good medical history for a right handed starting pitcher. Pat Venditte can get by with that but not Harden who last I checked doesn’t also pitch with his left hand.
We make fun of Beckett’s and Sheets’ injury histories, but seriously, even in their worst injury filled years, they still pitched over 100 innings. Harden’s last two years combined don’t break 100.
One more lengthy injury for Hughes and he can be considered brittle.
There’s been little time to truly judge what he can be. He no sooner shows a few good outings and he’s DL bound again. He become an expert with rehab.
yea harden = future pavano. honestly sheets could be more reliable
“Pat Venditte can get by with that but not Harden who last I checked doesn’t also pitch with his left hand”
Venditte couldn’t get by with his left hand or he never would leave Staten Island.
It sounds great in theory to trade for a pitcher with Harden’s stuff.
But his injury history is such an outlier – so far worse than even pitchers with very bad injury histories – that’s it’s difficult to fathom.
He’s had significant injuries to his throwing elbow and to his shoulder in both 2007 and 2008.
It’s great that he’s 26 but that also suggest he still has a lot of time to finally tear something in that shoulder.
At some point you really have to wonder if there is something in his mechanics or just something with him physically that make it unlikely for him to ever stay healthy.
There’s no comparison between him and Sheets, nevermind him and Beckett. Beckett’s major problem was blisters – not elbow and shoulder problems.
To compare Hughes’s injury problems to Harden’s is just silly. Harden has had recurrent problems to his throwing arm that have caused him to be shut down. Arm injuries put pitchers in a completely different category of risk.
Why do people think Beane wants to trade harden? He’s young and cost controlled.
Do you think perhaps Beane doesn’t believe in Harden and is trying to sell high while he can?
Doris from Rego Park -
Not a Grateful Dead fan. Why do you ask?
Let’s hope Kazmir is off his game tonight.