Game 92: Yankees at Pirates
-
- July
- 10
YANKEES (49-42)
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Posada 1B
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
Molina C
Christian LF
Mussina RHP
PIRATES (42-48)
McLouth CF
Sanchez 2B
Doumit C
Bay LF
Nady RF
LaRoche 1B
Bautista 3B
Maholm LHP
Wilson SS
Mike Mussina (11-6, 3.64) vs. the Pittsburgh hitters.
Paul Maholm (5-5, 4.05) vs. the New York hitters.
Notes: This will be the seventh game Posada has played at least some first base. … This was the game that was rained out on June 26 with the Yankees leading 3-1 in the third inning. Mussina and Maholm were the pitchers that day, too. The Yankees started that game double, double, triple, double. … Before you ask, they start all over again. … The Yankees are 22-20 on the road. … Brett Gardner is 4 for 28 with nine Ks. … Jeter has a seven game hit streak and has hit safely in 23 of the last 25 games. … Molina has started six straight games.
Back later with updates.
A SAD, SAD UPDATE, 5:39 p.m.: The Big G finished third in the final vote. Evan Longoria won. Quotes from Giambi to come.
UPDATE, 6:03 p.m.: Here are some comments from Jason Giambi:
On Evan Longoria winning: “He’s a great player, he’s playing hard. He’s definitely deserving.”
On the Support the ‘Stache campaign: “It was fun. It was awesome and I thank everybody who gave it a run. I always try and find the positive. I get four days off which I definitely could use.”
Will the ’stache stay? “Oh, yeah. I didn’t grow the ‘stache to make the All-Star team.”
On going home to Vegas over the break: “The boys will be happy.”
UPDATE, 6:09 p.m.: Here is a report from the AP in Tampa:
Johnny Damon’s injured left shoulder is still too sore for baseball activities and the New York Yankees left fielder is hoping to start hitting off a tee on Monday.
“It depends if the swelling goes down,” Damon said Thursday. “If it feels good, I’ll start hurrying up. It’s just slow. Wake up every morning and it’s swollen.”
Hideki Matsui, sidelined by a sore left knee, hit off a tee and took part in a soft toss session at the Yankees’ complex Thursday.
Pitcher Phil Hughes is scheduled to throw off a mound for the first time Saturday. The Yankees are hopeful Hughes will return in September.
UPDATE, 7:00 p.m.: I just noticed that the Pirates have the pitcher hitting eighth. Interesting.
UPDATE, 7:23 p.m.: Jose Molina is catching the sixth consecutive game. That’s a career first for him. The last Yankee to catch straight games (other than Jorge Posada) was Joe Girardi in 1997.
Girardi said “he hopes” to get Posada back as the full-time catcher. But it’s a day-to-day thing. What does Posada think about that? “I took care of it,” Girardi said.
It certainly didn’t seem that way before the game.
“I like to catch, OK?” Posada said tersely. “I’m in the lineup, I’m happy I’m in the lineup but I like to catch. I’m a catcher. I’m not a first baseman. I’m not a DH. I like to catch. … (Girardi) knows that. Everybody in here knows that.”
UPDATE, 7:40 p.m.: Brilliant move hitting the pitcher eighth.
UPDATE, 7:52 p.m.: Then, of course, No. 9 hitter Jack Wilson doubles to lead off the third. Last thing you want is an actual hitter coming up with men on base.
UPDATE, 8:23 p.m.: That was the first hit for Moose since June 23, 2003 and the first hit for a Yankees pitcher since Roger Clemens last June 21.
Oh, sure, Clemens.
UPDATE, 8:35 p.m.: There’s some all-around sloppy baseball. Derek Jeter throws a slider to Posada trying to complete a double play. Posada doesn’t stop the ball from skipping by. Then Molina throws a ball into center when the runner steals.
The Yankees have mailed this game in so far.
UPDATE, 8:46 p.m.: A-Rod is 1 for his last 12 with four strikeouts.
UPDATE, 9:08 p.m.: Another big hit by Bobby Abreu. At least Moose is off the hook after pitching pretty well. Now it’s Jose Veras on the mound.
UPDATE, 9:15 p.m.: Did the real Jose Veras just stand up there? He had allowed only one run over 17.1 innings since June 5. A walk and a home run ended that. Now the Yankees are down by two runs again.
UPDATE, 9:43 p.m.: That makes 31 times this season the Yankees have been held to two runs or less. Just amazing.
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That is a short-ass lineup. Geez. I hope the Pirates are swinging early and often and that Moose has his offspeed stuff dancing.
YEA!!! Posada 1B. all kidding aside, i hope he gets somewhat tested tonight. It’d be nice to see what he can do at the corner. I’m not hoping for liners down the line, but some extra effort plays would be interesting to see.
Hope the yankees start the game the same way as they did in the original
I like Arod batting 3rd.
Let’s go Moose!
Vote for Giambi! WE’RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME!
WWW.mlb.com !
Can someone explain playing Melky over Gardner?
1 walk off > no walk off
interesting line-up…. whatever works - vote big g!
Having hit above .200 in the majors before > 4/28 with 9 K’s
Who’s the DH?
Can someone explain playing Melky over Gardner?
1 walk off > no walk off
Maholm is a lefty. Melky is a switch hitter. One would think a better question would be “Why Christian over Gardner”, but that has the same answer
By the way, Melky has had walk-off hits before. Just because Gardners’ was more recent, it’s not right to hold it against Melky.
national league..no DH!
“Who’s the DH?”
It’s in an NL park.
Giambi should be in over Posada even VS the LH
John Sterling, I hope you’re kidding (NL stadium)
Who’s the DH?
Speaking of the lack of DH, if there are RISP and Cano gets out, you might as well switch to another game, because Melky, Molina, Christian, and Mussina don’t look very formidable.
J. Sterling,
I heard your mother is DH’in tonight in Pittsburgh!
I am an idiot. Forgot they went back to PNC Park.
(…and, unfortunately, you make a great point, Brent.)
Seriously, I see the potential in Gardner and he does cause some trouble for opposing pitchers when hes on the bases. However, the people on this blog calling for Girardi to bench Cabrera and start Gardner have GOT to calm down.
I still keep Cabrera in there until Gardner proves he can hit in the majors
Vote for the Stache!!!!
I’m also voting against Wright cause Met fans are voting against Giambi.
how many days in a row has jorge not caught? is he really not able to? because i’d really have liked to have seen both his and giambi’s bat in tonight.
I’m willing to bet that Mussina has more RBI’s tonight then Melky, Molina, and Christian combined. I’ve been all about the pitchers hitting for some reason.
Brent-
Good point. Insert foot to mouth on my behalf.
On another note, I hope Santana gives up a homerun to CC before the end of this season. 2 pitchers with homeruns against Santana would be comical.
Let’s Go Yanks!
Christian has showed more pop in his bat than Gardner. Hes also a threat on the bases as we saw when he stole third yesterday. Molina gets into grooves where he not only hits but he hits doubles, lets hope this is one of them.
so our 3 - 1 lead is worthless.
they already made a rule change last season (i think) where they resume the game instead of starting over in certain rain-out cases. away team taking the lead in the top of an inning of an official game, i think. (example was that baltimore game last year) prior to that, they didn’t resume any postponed games.
if they changed a rule and are now resuming games, why not resume games if less than 5 innings are played?
of course i’d be perfectly fine with the rule if we were down when the game was called
“Ponson is winning the Innings Eating Championship! Livan, Chestnut, and Kobayashi got nothing on him.”
mel-
ponson will never catch livan this year.
livan had the bad luck to pitch on a hot day at fenway with the wind blowing out. even beckett gave up 5 runs n 5 innings and there were 37 hits between the two teams.
i like ponson in the role he’s in with the yankees, but he’s no livan for innings eating.
how’s hughes ,kennedy,and all those fit rookies doing?
score another one for the fat guys.
ponson that is.
livan will have to wait for another start when the wind isn’t blowing out.
you think we can get the stache to the all-star game with one SOLID hour of voting until it closes?
Man we could use a bench player.I bet Christian has a good night and everybody here says he the next Willie Mays.
Gardner,Christian and Melky are killing this team.
Gardner is so obviously over matched, it’s crazy. There has to be a fourth outfielder somewhere that Cashman can trade for that could do better than that stiff.
Durham Yankee-
my only comment to your comment is that Gardner…
A. only has about 30 AB’s
B. has faced an ace almost every time he’s played. I really want to see him against a few B or C pitchers for a few days in a row.
Maybe it was an uncalled for comment for tonights game, but at some point, if Melky’s play continues and he makes no adjustments, like major league players are supposed to do during slumps (Cano), you have to go with Gardner for at least 3 series in a row.
I don’t get it. Gardner has been squeezed nine times by the umps, he’s grinded out every single at bat, I’m pretty sure that he has seen 400 pitches in the 28 at bats. He’s scrappy like Scooby’s nephew. He threw a runner out 5 games ago, he has chosen to not pull the ball at all, he has chosen to not even hit the ball more than 200 ft. With all this said, Girardi is not starting him?
“Seriously, I see the potential in Gardner and he does cause some trouble for opposing pitchers when hes on the bases. However, the people on this blog calling for Girardi to bench Cabrera and start Gardner have GOT to calm down. ”
it’s funny that there was a thread about Matsui’s injury, and all the Gardner supporters were dead silent. these guys dislike Melky more than they like Gardner.
Vote Longoria. Keep the All-Star game HGH free. That means no PEDitte and no Giambi.
This should have been the Yankees lineup tonight:
Gardner CF
Gardner’s Brother SS
Gardner’s Other Brother RF
Gardner’s Gym Teacher 3B
Gardner’s Barber 1B
Gardner’s Coke Dealer LF
Gardner’s Accountant 2B
Molina C (he always catches Mussina)
Mussina P (until Gardner’s unconceived son is old enough to pitch)
so Giambi should be there because he never messed around with that little league HGH stuff lol
I don’t get it. Gardner has been squeezed nine times by the umps, he’s grinded out every single at bat, I’m pretty sure that he has seen 400 pitches in the 28 at bats. He’s scrappy like Scooby’s nephew. He threw a runner out 5 games ago, he has chosen to not pull the ball at all, he has chosen to not even hit the ball more than 200 ft. With all this said, Girardi is not starting him?
I think it has more to do with Maholm being a lefty rather than him getting benched for negative results.
Gardner is so obviously over matched, it’s crazy. There has to be a fourth outfielder somewhere that Cashman can trade for that could do better than that stiff.
Really? Obviously overmatched? He’s been grinding out at-bats, working the count, and not straying away from what got him here. Now Betemit, on the other hand, always looks overmatched. Compare the two. Do they look similar? I at least don’t think so..
Richie Sexson in pinstripes anyone?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3481747
Mitch, that was hilarious, I seriously lol’ed. There’s some people here who would probably actually like to see that lineup. And Melky’s head on a stick.
Brett Gardner turns the water he walks on into wine
Nondy-LEAVE NOW. If you think you can come here and sway us to not vote for Giambi, you are out of your skull.
and Jorge Steinbrenner–absolutely! Do i think Gardner is a long term solution for the OF–NO. with that said, Cabrera hasn’t even shown he is breaking out of this. if you want the title of everyday CF, you better play like it,and he isn’t. I wish every day Melky would break out of this, but, low and behold, he can’t even put a ball in the outfield when we need him to. His superior arm doesn’t make up for his constant crap at the plate. and he’s not fast, which is something both Gardner and Christian bring to the team. Than again, what good is stealing 2nd and 3rd, if you don’t have a guy that can put it out of the infield?
Anybody think we should think about getting Sexson? SEA just released him. He strikes out a lot, but he can hit some jacks too. And he’s a better than average 1B.
The voting server is much faster– it was getting hammered about 20 minutes ago.
“Gardner,Christian and Melky are killing this team.”
2 bottom of the order hitters and a bench player are killing the team? 2 of the 3 have about 45 at-bats between them and they’re killing the team?
Wow, interesting line up. Seems a bit short, but it’s not like we’re playing like any sort of offensive juggernaut.
Look at Melky’s numbers compared to where Bernie Williams were at like times in their careers. Melky’s are better. He’s 23, a full year younger than Ellsbury. He’s still a kid you have to let him work out of slumps. It’s called player development.
I like Gardner but Melky’s ceiling is so much higher.
Forget about Sexson, we already have too many of other teams scraps that they didn’t want anymore. It’s becoming pathetic.
Instead, we should do this trade: Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Brett Gardner for Matt Holliday and Taylor Buchholz
Betemit looks more overmatched then Gardner? People you can’t be serious. Betemit is a .250 hitter with power. Gardner will be lucky if he ever hits over .200 for a sustained period of time. They both strike out an insane amount of times. Come on guys, Betemit is no everyday player, but hes much better than Gardner.
“Gardner is so obviously over matched, it’s crazy. There has to be a fourth outfielder somewhere that Cashman can trade for that could do better than that stiff.”
He’s had 28 official at bats. He’s played in 8 games. This is just as idiotic as the Melky is ruining this ballclub gang.
Anybody think we should think about getting Sexson? SEA just released him. He strikes out a lot, but he can hit some jacks too. And he’s a better than average 1B.
No.
There are two women who have expressed interest in me. One is a Red Sox fan - she is super hot. The other is a Yankee fan - not bad looking at all herself but not as hot. I’m a Yankee fan. Who should I choose?
Thanks, DFox. If an alien came down from Mars and read this board, they would go back and report to their planet that Americans play a game called “baseball” which is dominated by a superstar named “Brett Gardner.” Unless, of course, they have reference to www.baseball-reference.com and can see his age, experience and stats!
“like major league players are supposed to do during slumps (Cano), you have to go with Gardner for at least 3 series in a row.”
It took Cano 2 months to make the adjustments that major league players are “supposed” to make. Why do they “have to” go with Gardner for 3 series in a row when he hasn’t proven he can hit major league pitching as of yet?
DFox, I think your Holliday trade is getting $.30 on the dollar for Hughes. Remember, before this season, Hughes was the key guy in the Santana deal. Nobody would trade Holliday for Santana. It’s bad business, I think.
In Dilemma, take the hot red-sox fan if anything for the novelty of an actual hot red-sox fan…
that said, i don’t believe you
The lesson I teach my kids in little league is with two strikes you need to be swinging if it’s close. Don’t rely on the umpire. A rookie has to earn calls. Not necessarily fair but it is what it is. Apparently Gardner and several other Yankees never learned that?
“Gardner is so obviously over matched, it’s crazy. There has to be a fourth outfielder somewhere that Cashman can trade for that could do better than that stiff.”
the backlash begins.
this is as silly as the anti-Melky posts. Brett’s shown some nice patience at the plate at times. he plays like a rookie with promise who is still, alas, a rookie.
i’ll give him this: he looks a lot better than Melky’s initial call-up. of course, Melky was still going through puberty when we first called him up.
Bernie should never be in the same sentence as.
Melky.
If Melky did in one postseason series what Bernie did every postseason series, i would shut my mouth about Melky ever again. Bernie Williams is a GOD compared to Melky. And they are different people, so don’t talk about where Bernie was compared to Melky blah blah. If Bernie went thru something like this in this exact situation, with no prior greatness to his name, than i would say Bernie doesn’t deserve to play. But we;ve seen bernies whole career, so it’s easy to say, “look at where bernie was at and look what he did in the latter part of his career.” we have no idea what cabrera could be. i, personally, hope he turns out to be a great CF, but right now he isn’t getting the job done and the rest of the O isn’t picking up the slack.
Betemit should be shining Gardners spikes. Every time Betemit pinch hits he strikes out. Gardner has had some great at-bats against great pitchers, the hits will come.
and helllllll no to Richie Sexon.. his batting average is worse then Adam Dunns with less power and probably more money.
Wow, that’s a weak looking lineup.
At least though, he’s not batting Melky leadoff.
bang the Sox fan. marry the Yankee fan. it’s the American way.
Betemit looks more overmatched then Gardner? People you can’t be serious. Betemit is a .250 hitter with power. Gardner will be lucky if he ever hits over .200 for a sustained period of time. They both strike out an insane amount of times. Come on guys, Betemit is no everyday player, but hes much better than Gardner.
Maybe you haven’t been paying attention. When Betemit strikes out, he’ll fly open and wave at an outside/high/low/sinking/cutting/breaking/sliding/knuckling ball. He mostly hits fastballs only, but is always late on “really” fast balls (Did you see him strike out against Papelbon the other day?). He has been doing this since he became a Yankee. It’s nothing new.
First of all, Gardner has played in 8 games. Don’t critique his career as a baseball player in little over a week. Second, the majority of his strikeouts have been taken for called strike 3 (someone know where we can find out the exact number?). He battles pitchers, takes pitches, and tries to work the count in his favor. Again, he’s been in 8 games. Give the guy a chance.
No to richie sexon
Melky wasnt the only one that couldnt hit Balfour yesterday. Balfour was throwing 97 mph strikes. If I recall correctly Gardner pulled a MannyMO and never lifted the bat off his shoulder when he was up against Balfour.
Im not trying to be negative with regards to gardner, i just want everyone to stop acting like Melky is killing us so badly we have to get the savior gardner in.
If playoffs started tomorrow and we are in them, my CF is Melky and Gardner is used as a pinch runner in the late innings.
In Dilemma,
All things being equal, always take the hot chick. Besides you two can have “side bets” whenever the Yanks play the Sox. The best part is that there are no losers.
(except for me, for posting this)
(I meant to add italics for the first paragraph of my last post, as I was quoting someone)
“Keep the All-Star game HGH free.”
Impossible. Too many Red Sox on the team.
Not holding out much hope for Giambi. Just one thing … remember the spite of Met fans in 2013. When “Citifield” (*chuckle**snort*) is hosting the game, we’ve got to rally all of our support behind the top NL guys outside New York and just stuff all the ballots for them. Make sure they have no starters on the team and only one reserve.
All this voting against our guys that Sox and Met fans are doing is fueled by the fact that it’s our all-star game at our stadium. Any other park, you wouldn’t be getting such a high Yankee-hater turnout. Five years from now, remember that they tried so hard to ruin our all-star game.
Mitch, I would have agreed with you, but at this point what is Hughes worth? Right now he’s nothing more than a gamble. He’s probably not going to pitch in the majors again this year. Look what he did when he DID pitch in the majors this year. You wouldn’t involve that guy in a trade for Matt Holliday and Buchholz? Don’t forget, Buchholz is a quality pitcher too. I really believe at this point you have to wonder what Hughes is going to be. Consider depreciation. Hughes is not worth what he was at the beginning of this season.
I really like Mussina in the 9 hole
In Dilemma said
July 10th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
“There are two women who have expressed interest in me. One is a Red Sox fan - she is super hot. The other is a Yankee fan - not bad looking at all herself but not as hot. I’m a Yankee fan. Who should I choose?”
Duh!!!!! Them BOTH stupid!!!!
“Impossible. Too many Red Sox on the team.”
He said “Keep the HGH off the field,” not “keep the crabs off the field.”
The way the landscape of baseball trades are shaping out a player like Holliday would warrant starting the discussions with Ajax, Hughes, and a top B-level prospect.
Why didn’t we pick up Fernando Tatis? Right had bat with decent power… hitting .303 for the Mets.
Liar…there is no such thing as a good looking red sox fan, theyre mutants.
“The way the landscape of baseball trades are shaping out a player like Holliday would warrant starting the discussions with Ajax, Hughes, and a top B-level prospect.”
The only thing I don’t like about what you listed is AJAX. I’d rather substitute Kennedy and Gardner for him, or someone else. But it’s worth thinking about. The Yankees have a lot of young pitchers and you can’t use all of them. Some of them have to be traded.
Stop talking people! More voting for the Stache! Quit wasting the little time left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop wasting time on Giambi, the voting is rigged where Met Rays and Red Sox fans are all voting for Longoria
The ’stache doesn’t have a chance unfortunately. Longoria will just edge out Dye.
why does every thread on this blog turn into a “Gardner sucks..melky sucks…both suck” discussion?
“Hughes is not worth what he was at the beginning of this season.”
true, but he’s still worth a lot more to the other 29 teams than he is to the commenters on Pete Abraham’s blog.
still 21-22. still top-of-the-rotation potential. still the potential of having 3-4 solid MLB pitches. a hell of a postseason relief appearance last year AND a near no-hitter in his second career start *coughnolaptoptheftscough*. yes, injury risk, but i think you still have 29 teams that would give anything to have him
Ray-
A. Cano has hit above .300 for a full season.
Melky has yet to get his swing this year. before i argue let me pose this question:
If Melky Cabrera continues to struggle the way he has this season, at what point do we say to ourselves, “we need somebody else in there?” Do we give him the benefit of the doubt the whole season? I mean its the ASB already. is 3/4 of the season the point where you say, “this guy is really killing us?” Regardless of what we all ‘think’ other players are capable of (Christian/Gardner), we should give them a shot to prove us wrong for a somewhat extended period of time if this keeps us.
On another note, are we all aware that he has faced Beckett, Kazmir, & Lester (2 hitter into the 7th). out of 8 games, he faced 2 aces and Lester who was nothing short of phenomenal that outing.
DFox
You are right, IMO, Hughes value reached its’ zenith last winter.
He is an injury prone mass of potential now, and because of that, worth more to the Yankees than any other team.
and just like on the field…. we can defeat them all
“The only thing I don’t like about what you listed is AJAX. I’d rather substitute Kennedy and Gardner for him, or someone else. But it’s worth thinking about. The Yankees have a lot of young pitchers and you can’t use all of them. Some of them have to be traded.”
I think Ajax is untouchable. I didn’t say he should be dealt but I think we don’t even get a return call from Dan O’Dowd if we are unwilling to include Ajax.
“You are right, IMO, Hughes value reached its’ zenith last winter.
He is an injury prone mass of potential now, and because of that, worth more to the Yankees than any other team.”
….but still worth more to any other team than to the commenters on Peter Abraham’s blog.
JoeyA,
Welcome to the big leagues, Rook.
Posada batting cleanup because of all the great swings he’s had lately? I like it!
Sorry - Melky’s numbers don’t measure up to Bernie Williams’.
Bernie first 3 seasons, OPS+
91
113
100
Melky’s first 3 seasons, OPS+
95
89
79
Ugly trend for Melky. He’s getting worse (and overswinging nearly every at-bat). And Bernie exploded soon after, to post OPS+ of 119, 129, 131, 147, 160, 149, 140, 138, 141. So Melky doesn’t seem to be on the same track as Bernie was.
I really think that Bernie should be considered for the HOF. He posted 7 straight years of 900+ OPS while playing CF, winning 4 rings and 4 GGs. Yes, his arm and base-stealing were always poor, but the numbers I posted above are rarely attained by CFs.
Even with Melky sucking, we need someone else. Everyone is pointing to Matsui coming off the DL. Hideki is damaged goods and won’t make it the rest of the way on his rickety wheels. We need insurance for if and when Matsui goes down. We can’t rely on JC/Gardner/Melky.
“why does every thread on this blog turn into a “Gardner sucks..melky sucks…both suck” discussion?”
because there’s actually not enough to talk about to fuel this blog 24/7.
“You are right, IMO, Hughes value reached its’ zenith last winter.
He is an injury prone mass of potential now, and because of that, worth more to the Yankees than any other team.”
….and still worth more to the other 29 teams than he is to the readers here.
“You are right, IMO, Hughes value reached its’ zenith last winter.”
Way to hold out hope for Phil:) Unbelievable.
“Ray-
A. Cano has hit above .300 for a full season.
Melky has yet to get his swing this year. before i argue let me pose this question:
If Melky Cabrera continues to struggle the way he has this season, at what point do we say to ourselves, “we need somebody else in there?” Do we give him the benefit of the doubt the whole season? I mean its the ASB already. is 3/4 of the season the point where you say, “this guy is really killing us?” Regardless of what we all ‘think’ other players are capable of (Christian/Gardner), we should give them a shot to prove us wrong for a somewhat extended period of time if this keeps us.
On another note, are we all aware that he has faced Beckett, Kazmir, & Lester (2 hitter into the 7th). out of 8 games, he faced 2 aces and Lester who was nothing short of phenomenal that outing.”
First of all your point A means nothing to me. You claim that major league players are able to right the ship.
It took Cano 2 months to right the ship. So the fact that he’s hit over .300 before means nothing to what you’re trying to say.
Your other point isn’t valid either because he’s not “killing the team” contrary to your belief. He’s been just under league average when you account for his DEFENSE, not just his arm. That’s not killing the team.
Gardner is getting his shot, he’s started in 8 of the 11 games he’s been here. If that’s not getting a shot I don’t know what is.
“DFox
You are right, IMO, Hughes value reached its’ zenith last winter.
He is an injury prone mass of potential now, and because of that, worth more to the Yankees than any other team.”
With Yankee “fans” like this is there any reason to wonder why the ’stache couldn’t get enough all star votes?
He is 22 freakin years old. 22 freakin years old and his value has reached it’s zenith?
I wonder why anytime trades are mentioned with the Yankees Hughes name is one of the first ones that always comes up?
Miller
You took that out of context. The point being that Hughes is not going to get as much as last winter and that he is more valuable to the yankees than anyone else.
Try to whine so much.
You as well Ray
A lot of crying about Melky’s lack of offense, but I think it’s fair to say he’s the best outfielder the team has. He has a cannon, gets a good jump on the ball, is not afraid of the wall(Abreu ruining CMW no-no in Boston, anyone? anyone?)
what do you think about yanks going after a Right hand bat like Matt Holliday or a pitcher like jarod washburn?
“You took that out of context. The point being that Hughes is not going to get as much as last winter and that he is more valuable to the yankees than anyone else.”
Your point sounds idiotic to me.
Gardner has indeed faced some tough starters, and he has been called out on some pitches 4-5 inches out of the strike zone. His game is based on seeing a lot of pitches and working walks, so he’ll have to adjust a bit, and protect better with 2 strikes. With Gardner’s speed, a .330 OBP the rest of the season could make him a productive player.
BTW, Melky’s OBP is “up” to .309. I don’t want to give up on Melky, but it’s hard to imagine the NY Yankees with a CF who hits so poorly. I think that the “overmatch” we had at C, SS and CF was a big reason this team has been so successful over the last 15 years. Most teams can’t find people who can hit like Posada, Jeter and Bernie to man those positions. Having all 3 was a huge bonus, and spoiled is in some sense.
DFox, forget what we think of Hughes. On the market, he’s still a huge asset with a lot of value. Every GM would want him. He’s what, 22? His depreciation has been minimal.
raymagnetic ®™
To a hammer, everything is a nail.
If that is too complex for you to understand, it means that to an idiot everything is idiotic.
What’s sad (or amusing depending how you look at it) is that Mussina is probably the most feared hitter out of the 6-9 slots.
Listen Vrsce. If I took that out of context I guess several other people did. Maybe you should practice reading aloud your posts before posting them. The way I read that was you have given up on Hughes. What happens when the Yankees patience pays off and he pitches well? Don’t you think his value goes up more so than last winter?
alou injured again maybe we can use him as a DH next year?
what do you think about yanks going after a Right hand bat like Matt Holliday or a pitcher like jarod washburn?
I’ll take a pass on Washburn, seeing as how he’s twice been accused of statuatory rape.
“You took that out of context. The point being that Hughes is not going to get as much as last winter and that he is more valuable to the yankees than anyone else.”
Your point sounds idiotic to me.
Actually, that makes perfect sense to me. Say the Yankees trade him and he IS the unbelievable #1 Ace of the next century..the Yankees will be kicking themselves for including him in a trade (most likely with other good prospects because of his health issues).
If they keep him, they avoid that.
“Richie Sexson in pinstripes anyone?”
Umm, NO!
I’d genuinely rather see Hank Steinbrenner suit up before putting Sexson in pinstripes.
“DFox, forget what we think of Hughes. On the market, he’s still a huge asset with a lot of value. Every GM would want him. He’s what, 22? His depreciation has been minimal.”
I pray your right. If that’s the case, then let’s use him in a deal for Holliday.
He can replace Gardner as our LF if the Gardner fans would allow that to happen.
statuary rape? Yikes! How about Matt Holliday and also paul byrd?
“I’ll take a pass on Washburn, seeing as how he’s twice been accused of statuatory rape.”
but she looked 18
I wish they just restarted the game from where it ended.
i trade for holliday we need an OF next year
how about melky hughes and kennedy
Actually, I’m saying they could get more for Hughes than Holliday.
As someone wrote above, Hughes is the first guy every other GM asks for.
For my unrealistic expectations of the day, here’s hope to a Moose RBI.
Miller
Not everyone. See Brent’s note above.
Perhaps you should study reading comprehension and not be so quick to find negativity where there is none.
“What happens when the Yankees patience pays off and he pitches well? Don’t you think his value goes up more so than last winter?”
With all do respect, for that to happen he needs to stay healthy a full season first. So far he’s 0/2 with serious injuries keeping him out. His value is never going to go up from being on the DL half the season.
richie sexson? he stinks and thats an understatement
” The point being that Hughes is not going to get as much as last winter and that he is more valuable to the yankees than anyone else.”
If Hughes has no value why is he one of the first names that comes up in trade talks?
Only an idiot would think that a player whose name constantly comes up in trade talks has no value. Did I explain it slowly enough for you?
1. Sexson is washed up. Why would you sign someone with such an appalling strikeout ratio and diminishing power?
2. Why does everyone have such a rager for Gardner? He hasn’t showed anything all that exciting other than a few extended at bats and a couple of singles.
“Actually, I’m saying they could get more for Hughes than Holliday.”
Like who? They don’t come much better than Holliday, and being that the Yankees don’t currently have a great left fielder…
Richie Sexson has truly cratered. In 2007, he created 51 runs in 500 PAs, and is on the same pace in 2008. That’s hideous. No me gusta el Richie Sexson.
Holliday? Dan O’Dowd will not move him unless he gets a boatload of high-level prospects. O’Dowd would want any and every deal to start with Ajax. That’s not going to happen folks. We trade Ajax and farm has no hitting prospects unless you can consider Charleston. A lot can happen between low-A ball and the bigs. We have a ton of depth but we can’t start trading for big names until the depth is at AA and AAA. We’re not there yet.
Apparently Scott Boras is talking about $23MM per year for Tex this winter.
and the yanks contacted the Red about Harang
“So far he’s 0/2 with serious injuries keeping him out. His value is never going to go up from being on the DL half the season.”
He’s never had any major arm troubles. As long as his injuries do not consist of arm troubles his value will remain high.
I just voted upwards of 50 times for the Big G.
Its probably too late though.
melky sucks? i challenge anyone who truly embraces this crap to compare his stats (at his age) with anyone at that same age. anyone. given the years of mlb experience he has, and the actual years he has been playing on the major level, find me a position player who played all season his first 2 years with the mlb who did better. that’s not to say it doesn’t exist. but. LOOK FOR YOURSELF. this flavor-of-the-day fanbase is annoying. certainly there are great finds out there, and rookies who deserve a shot. and: there are vets out there who do well. but. RESEARCH the numbers. and…why not check out how often jeter’s been hitting. and how often jorge grinds into double plays? my point. no one in their right mind would say jeter is worthless due to his most recent “at bats.” and, could you actually suggest a better short stop doesn’t exist? why then not chant how JETER SUCKS. why not? i’ll tell you. cause you’re safe behind the MELKY SUCKS bandwagon. i really wish more yankee fans would stop and think about WHY they espouse the beliefs they speak. if you put a few minutes into researching the actual stats of this team and compare those stats with players across the league, you would have a little more appreciation for the accomplishments of the men we have.
and another thing. every team has ebbs and flows. stop focusing on how the yankees are imperfect. i have news for the melky haters. every single team that has ever won the world series had players who sucked. get real.
2. Why does everyone have such a rager for Gardner? He hasn’t showed anything all that exciting other than a few extended at bats and a couple of singles
FINALLY! someone on my side
id rather have richie cunningham
Ichiro anyone?
Aaron,
Where did you read that the Yankees inquired about Harang?
kat gil..i dont think you would want to compare melky to andruw jones stats at his age and younger
“Actually, I’m saying they could get more for Hughes than Holliday.”
As someone wrote above, Hughes is the first guy every other GM asks for. I think we’re seeing a shift as Ajax is becoming the hot commodity. Dan O’Dowd is a pretty sharp guy. He’s not going to take mid-level prospects.
“Actually, I’m saying they could get more for Hughes than Holliday.”
As someone wrote above, Hughes is the first guy every other GM asks for. I think we’re seeing a shift as Ajax is becoming the hot commodity. Dan O’Dowd is a pretty sharp guy. He’s not going to take mid-level prospects.
MLBTRADERUMORS.COM
Harrang is either on the DL or is missing is next start with arm issues
KATGILL
i know melky is young but what has he shown over the last 3-4 years that he could be a starting CF for the Yankees hes an 4th OF or maybe a starter for the Giants,Padres,and some other team
BTW, Holliday is a Coors Field creation. I know that they have been humidifying the baseballs there in recent years, but numbers don’t lie. Over the seasons 2005, 2006, and 2007, Holliday got a massive 300 point OPS bump from playing in Coors (1.106 home, .809 road). He was basically an .800 OPS hitter on the road (usually classified as a “good” hitter), and an 1.100 OPS hitter at Coors (”Ted Williams”).
Yes, the splits have moderated somewhat this season (1.079 at Coors vs. .891 on the road), but the bulk of his career says he is not the same hitter outside of that ballpark.
Well, DFox, nobody that’s on the market. That’s why you won’t see Hughes traded.
Look, I like Holliday. I’d be happy if he was a Yankee. But you can’t discount the Colorado effect:
Career:
Home: 364/.427/1.086
Away: 278/.341/.793
This year:
Home: .368/.441/1.079
Away: .313/.406/.892
The Home guy is a superstar that makes you consider Hughes (maybe). The Away guy is a nice player that you don’t part with Hughes for.
Sexson will go to Oakland to revive his career as a DH.
KATGILL, plenty of players have been much better than Melky in their first years in the MLB. I posted Bernie’s stats above. There are literally dozens of others that have widely outperformed Melky early in their careers.
He’s just not a good hitter. It’s unlikely he ever will be.
DFox
I thought it was Matt Holliday and Taylor Buchholz for Hughes, Kennedy, some other prospects?
As for Harang, I read an article today about how his season has been awful since Dusty Baker made him through four innings and 65 pitches on two days rest in that long extra inning game. Apparently, his arm is dead and he’s on the DL.
RAY RAY
that’d be a good fit, but they already have a bunch of DH
People get “ragers” for Gardner because of his speed, not for his Batting Average. Just like you get a “rager” for Melkys arm, not his average
Sounds like Dusty Baker and Joe Girardi read the same book on how to ruin an arm. See Josh Johnson.
TL, Baker’s rap sheet is a mile long (Mark Prior being the biggest case). Girardi was a one-time offender.
i agree with the fact that melky isn’t a phenom with regard to hitting.
however. the contribution he provides in defense has been relied on OFTEN.
inasmuch as it would be nice to have the mick reincarnated for CF…we have what we have. we have a decent centerfielder who contributes what he contributes at bat.
thus, my relation to exercizing patience with other position players who aren’t necessarily mopping up the RBI’s this year.
it just gets old hearing the same thing day after day after day that MELKY is the ONE THING holding us back from perfection.
anyhow. thanks for reading all that. and go moose.
ps. i still hate tampa bay.
I stated yesterday that
Gardner = Podsednic
Slappy hitter,not much power,but blazing speed. That = 4TH Outfielder. The funny thing is i was one person who wanted us to sign Podsednic. So i got my wish. Sort of.
As far as the lineup is concerned. Mussina should be batting sixth. Oh well. Hope Moose is practicing running bases today.
I stated yesterday that
Gardner = Podsednic
Slappy hitter,not much power,but blazing speed. That = 4TH Outfielder. The funny thing is i was one person who wanted us to sign Podsednic. So i got my wish. Sort of.”
If Gardner = Podsednik then who does Melky =?
it finally cut me off from voting - i voted a couple thousand times…. probably wasted time but you never know - GOOD LUCK BIG G
Agreed on Dusty. Girardi bringing back a rookie arm after an 82-minute rain delay doesn’t speak well for the matter before his ears. Tough lesson to learn especially since Jsoh is just coming back.
Longoria and Hart are in
“The Home guy is a superstar that makes you consider Hughes (maybe). The Away guy is a nice player that you don’t part with Hughes for.”
Maybe its not the Colorado effect. Its the CHEER EFFECT. He just likes playing in parks that show him love.
Looks like Giambi lost. MLB.com says it came down to between Longoria and Dye.
I would be patient with Melky if I saw improvement at the plate. His strike zone discipline is getting much worse and he looks like no better than a .250 hitter. At some point we have to realize that players can show flashes but just don’t have what it takes to improve.
Ok. So people love Gardner’s speed. Speed is great. But you need to get on base in order to utilize it! K’s are not going to help your OBP.
We need a Mark DeRosa type player on the bench- good hitter, plays multiple positions.
My guess, unless we really play poorly the rest of this month, is that the Yankees will look for a starter who can play right now and would come on the cheap-FA lefty Washburn?? Others?
Might try and sign Freddy Garcia for a spot in the rotation next year.
Need bench help and then there might be interest in Betemit.
Doubt any interest in Hawkins.
Again if the Yankees are not out of it until August, most of their FA players will get thru waivers, making trades possible.
And yes I’d rather have Holliday, then Abreu!!
no official winners yet but:
It came down to Evan Longoria and Jermaine Dye in the AL, Corey Hart and David Wright in the NL.
You do realize that Melkys K/BB ratio is just as bad as Gardners right?
Nice to see that the Twins have remembered how to play baseball …
I don’t necessarily deny that Gardner is generally a fourth outfielder. But I think Melky is nothing more than a fourth outfielder as well.
In my estimation, once Gardner starts to drive the ball a bit better, he’ll be a more productive player than Melky.
I just wished they weren’t both starting for this team right now.
We’ve seen what Melky can do for two years and his game isn’t getting better. Most players who are 23 years old get better with playing time, but his numbers have been in decline.
Let Gardner get his opportunity to play for awhile and see what he’s capable of doing. If he doesn’t take advantage of this opportunity while Matsui is out - they’ll probably send him back down.
Harang is getting an MRI for some forearm pain, which has affected his recent poor pitching, but when healthy, NL’er or not he’s worth a look.
Yeah, now that they arent playing the Red Sox they remembered how to play baseball again
I don’t necessarily deny that Gardner is generally a fourth outfielder. But I think Melky is nothing more than a fourth outfielder as well.
In my estimation, once Gardner starts to drive the ball a bit better, he’ll be a more productive player than Melky.
I just wished they weren’t both starting for this team right now.
We’ve seen what Melky can do for two years and his game isn’t getting better. Most players who are 23 years old get better with playing time, but his numbers have been in decline.
Let Gardner get his opportunity to play for awhile and see what he’s capable of doing. If he doesn’t take advantage of this opportunity while Matsui is out - they’ll probably send him back down.”
That is exactly my feelings. Melky has had his shot, and he isnt improving, let Gardner try for a year, if he doesnt succeed, thats when our real young guns come up like AJax
Melky and Gardner are both 4th outfielders, both have 1 trait that is above average
Who is taking injured Ortiz’ spot as DH? Maybe Francona picks Giambi?
Milton Bradley
“You do realize that Melkys K/BB ratio is just as bad as Gardners right?”
Yeah. Your right. But Melky is better in 2 catagories that noone talks about.
a. The throwing a ball from the center field fence home on two hops or less contest.
b. Sliding to first.
Bradley is taking Ortiz spot
Just to throw something to all you GARDNER lovers, ok he has speed agree, like people has said you need to get on to use it. Also, Gardner has not had 1 hard hit ball since he has been up and is striking out once ever 3 ABs guys… Its a safe bet to say that he wont be on the Yankees roster next year guys so so sorry, If anyone one will be it will Jackson and Melky..
Francona better pick Giambi for that spot lol
There’s no reason to restart any in-progress game over other than greed.
If games can be called for any weather-related reason after 4.5 or 5 innings (depending on who has the lead), there’s no reason to penalize the accomplishments of the hitters and pitchers just because the game couldn’t be completed. I’d say this even if the Yankees weren’t winning at the time. It’s flat-out unfair.
So what if the pitchers and line-ups change by the time the game starts again? That happens in games all the time, regardless of weather.
If you have to be a greedy owner and collect money at the gates again, pick up the game where it left off, then charge prorated admission and concessions to fans.
Better yet, let ‘em back in for free and play ball.
Ajax hopefully is ready in 2010. After that the rest of the young guns are a long way. Ajax is it at Trenton (? Tabata?), Tampa has nothing, and Charleston is good but it’s Low-A.
Jim Callis saids mid 09′
Bradley is starting for Ortiz - there’s still a roster spot that opens up
i would love harang even though he hasnt had a good years but look at his previous year
“Jim Callis saids mid 09′”
As a best-case, perhaps. He still has earn his way to AAA by year’s end.
does anyone kno what toppings dominoes has?? i cant find it on there website
As a best-case, perhaps. He still has earn his way to AAA by year’s end.
Yup.
Just to throw something to all you GARDNER lovers, ok he has speed agree, like people has said you need to get on to use it. Also, Gardner has not had 1 hard hit ball since he has been up and is striking out once ever 3 ABs guys… Its a safe bet to say that he wont be on the Yankees roster next year guys so so sorry, If anyone one will be it will Jackson and Melky..”
You will be eating your words once Gardner has more than a week of ML experience facing Kazmir and Beckett in 2 of the games
the way people talk about Melky and Gardner you might as well call up Ajax now… can’t be any worse. Melky i’m not a huge fan of but i think he can be an effective everyday player. Gardner so far i’m a big fan of - he’s been working the counts and having great at-bats, the hits haven’t fallen yet but they definitely will. I’d play Gardner over Melky right now and at least give him a shot
I heard Callis said that but I don’t see him making much impact next year. By ready I meant to take a regular starting spot.
“I’d play Gardner over Melky right now and at least give him a shot”
Playing in 8 of 11 games isn’t being given a shot?
If you people hate Gardner for all the hype, then you are gonna hate the Yankees in the coming years with all the talent they have in the minors, and how the real fans feel about them
Toppings??
Wouldn’t it be great if the most important issue for the Yankees was Brett Gardner vs. Melky Cabrera?
test
Longoria won.
u guys get so caught up in hyping people yourselves.. u really do..
What the HECK is all this banter about Gardner vs. Melky!!!? My God, I love that we’re finally able to argue about two farm system kids’ abilities!
I will laugh so hard if Wright doesnt get chosen causing Met fans blaming Rays fans for not being good on their deal
88 games batting .247 (.206 from the right side) is being given a shot. so comparatively 8 games is a “shot” but not really a chance. Melky sucked his first week too… Let Gardner get comfortable in the majors and see what he can to
nvm i found the toppings.. thanks for no help..
Longoria and Corey Hart.
damn rays/sox/and mets fans
“so comparatively 8 games is a “shot” but not really a chance. Melky sucked his first week too… Let Gardner get comfortable in the majors and see what he can to”
I didn’t say Gardner should be sent down. I submit that he IS being given a shot, so there’s no point complaining that he’s not.
Your very welcome aaron. Should have asked your girlfriend for help….
hahahahaha Cory Hart got it
i hope longoria joins the derby and messes up his swing,lol.. i think Big G still has a shot w. Ortiz spot
Mets fans are going to go down to Florida and burn down Tampa homes for not voting enough for Wright.
At least the Met fans don’t get Wright. Heehee, one all-star!
Here is a Met fan quote
“Well, it took a pathetic amount of promotion, and disgracing the game a bit with that logo behind home plate for Hart to beat Wright. Oh well.”
Correct me if im wrong but isnt Gardner getting a shot these days? If he wants to take Melkys spot he has to earn it and the way hes going to do that is by being productive during the opportunities he gets. Going 4 for 28 doesnt really make it difficult for Girardi to choose between Melky and Gardner.
Also we can sit here and argue back and forth as much as we want but the truth of the matter is the yankees write Melkys name into the line up card everyday so they obviously dont believe that Gardner is the answer to melkys woes.
Melky will end the year strong but we also cant expect the second coming of Bern baby Bern. I admit I took it for granted when Bernie was in CF
“Also we can sit here and argue back and forth as much as we want but the truth of the matter is the yankees write Melkys name into the line up card everyday so they obviously dont believe that Gardner is the answer to melkys woes. ”
You’re also ignoring the fact that Melky, Gardner and Justin Christian are three of the OFers right now. You’re saying you’d rather see Gardner and Christian in the same OF than Melky out there?
Correct me if im wrong but isnt Gardner getting a shot these days? If he wants to take Melkys spot he has to earn it and the way hes going to do that is by being productive during the opportunities he gets. Going 4 for 28 doesnt really make it difficult for Girardi to choose between Melky and Gardner.
Also we can sit here and argue back and forth as much as we want but the truth of the matter is the yankees write Melkys name into the line up card everyday so they obviously dont believe that Gardner is the answer to melkys woes.
Melky will end the year strong but we also cant expect the second coming of Bern baby Bern. I admit I took it for granted when Bernie was in CF”
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-
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So if what your saying is what should happen (basically sending Gardner down and giving up) Cano wouldnt be up here right now since he was Gardner esque when he first came up. And so was Melky.
I think 8 games is a little short to judge someone
“If you people hate Gardner for all the hype, then you are gonna hate the Yankees in the coming years with all the talent they have in the minors, and how the real fans feel about them”
It grinds my gears when comments like this are made. What is a REAL fan? Do you have the definition? BC if you do, I would like you to share it with the blog.
Aaron, i think most of us have the common sense not to order from Domino’s
So is Hart going to wear his sunglasses at night at the All-Star game?
Domino’s still exists?
Not once did I say that he should be sent down. In fact, I think he would make an outstanding late inning pinch runner.
Nick
haha.
i want a lil change saucy..lol cant go wrong w. the 5,5,5..
and brett gardner supporter, i finally agree w. u, 8 games to quick to judge someone.. but he didn’t even play in the majors yet and all you guys were hyping him..
Durham Yankee, when you find out what a real fan is, let me know.. i wanna be one too.. bc according to these guys Im not.. but im not the one saying that all these guys have to be gone to win.. like these guys said Abreu,Matsui,Damon,Giambi,Cano,Carera,Hawkins,Farns,Ohlendorf,ponson.. u kno etc..
Not once did I say that he should be sent down. In fact, I think he would make an outstanding late inning pinch runner.”
And that would make Melky?….. A good ball boy? Because Melkys bat is just as bad as Gardners. Check their stats the last 8 games and tell me whose AVG is higher
I’m happy for Evan Longoria - he’s having a terrific rookie season. I’m disappointed our boy Jason didn’t make it, but it wasn’t for luck of effort! What I think is a darn shame is the negative voting. I want to see the final vote tallies, though.
Geez, Gardner’s been in the Bigs for how long? And you guys are already saying he can’t hit? Give the guy a chance.
Correction: It wasn’t for LACK of effort, although it looks like luck wasn’t part of the equation, either.
KATGILL’s blog is hilarious!
I guess I’m one of the few Yankee fans that thought this whole Giambi ‘Stache promotion was moronically stupid.
Collusion by fans of other teams or not - Longoria is far more deserving of the All Star invitation than Giambi.
Frankly, I’d like to see them let Giambi walk after they decline his option after the season. Giambi has had a few productive years when he played - but overall - his production the last few years has been a disappointment.
I think if you would ask Cashman off the record, he would acknowledge that the signing was a mistake and he’d love to steal Doc Brown’s time machine and go back to 2001 and throw Giambi’s contract in the paper shredder before he had a chance to sign it.
It’s a big reason why I don’t think the Yanks are going to sign Teixeira and agree with it.
Stay away from Teixeira. He’s not the superstar that he’ll be paid to be and he’s not worth a $100M+ contract.
“Geez, Gardner’s been in the Bigs for how long? And you guys are already saying he can’t hit? Give the guy a chance.”
He hasnt hit over .300 in the past 2 years.
Dude all I am saying is that Gardner has to earn his pinstripes. Melky is playing poorly right now, I agree, but he has done many good things for us since hes been called up. If Gardner wants that same opportunity then he has to take it from Melky. You dont just hand someone CF, yo uhave to earn it. It has been only 8 games, maybe to few to judge, but Gardner has not gotten off on the right foot in terms of taking melkys position. Thats all im saying
Giambi finished 3′rd just like the Yankee’s will in the Division! Steroids do NOT belong in the All Star game and the voting proved it.
It’s funny how you guys say everyone lays over for the Sox but it’s just the simple fact of the Sox being better than these other teams including the Yankees.
“Giambi finished 3′rd just like the Yankee’s will in the Division! Steroids do NOT belong in the All Star game and the voting proved it.
It’s funny how you guys say everyone lays over for the Sox but it’s just the simple fact of the Sox being better than these other teams including the Yankees.”
You’re an idiot.
It makes me laugh that David Wright isn’t an all-star.
o well, im off boys and girls, got a basketball game.. see you later, GO YANKS!!
Things to do with Melky and Gardner.
American Gladiators
nfl Run/throw/Accuracy competition
Joes/Pros
Reality Show. Gardner “He calls me off every fly ball hit to me. Also gives me the stink eye on the dug out.”
He hasnt hit over .300 in the past 2 years.”
And Melky hasnt in 3 years…Your point?