Today in The Journal News
-
- July
- 10
The Yankees won their fourth straight by beating the Rays 2-1 in 10 innings. Mike Dougherty has the tale.
Sam Borden writes that the Yankees and Rays are in it for the long haul.
At Lawrence Taylor International Airport here in Newark about to head to Pittsburgh. Check back later for the lineups and other news.
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on Thursday, July 10th, 2008 at 8:12 am by Peter Abraham.
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Bad day for Yankee fans.
First, hitters get two, TWO, 2, hits off Aceves. Ouch!
Second, the Yankees have to face Roy Halladay!
Third, the City of Boston still exists.
Flying out of LT International, the Yanks are gonna go into Pittsburgh like a pack of crazed dogs!!
Let’s say theoretically that Dan McCutchen , Alfredo Aceves, and Jeff Karstens all pitch spectacularly their next 2-3 starts..Just blow the competition out of the water.
Who do the Yankees call up? Aceves for his age (experience), McCutchen (to see what their draft pick can do in the majors), or Karstens (a familiar face/already been here)
(BTW, you’re right, Russell, Boston still exists. But not for long…muahahahahah!)
::puts on snidely whiplash mustache::
“Who do the Yankees call up?”
noone, as long as Rasner and Ponson continue to give 5-6 decent innings a start.
noone, as long as Rasner and Ponson continue to give 5-6 decent innings a start.
Rasner hasn’t been terribly consistent in that regard of late. Hasn’t seen the 6th inning in any of his last 5 starts and gave up 6 or more runs in three of them. 23 ER and a whopping 52 baserunners allowed in his last 23 and 2/3 innings pitched.
Power of the ‘stache!
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/galleries/power_of_the_stache/power_of_the_stache.html
Yikes, have to face Doc… Hopefully we can wear him down early. If he gets into a groove, he can pitch a complete game.
“Yikes, have to face Doc… Hopefully we can wear him down early. If he gets into a groove, he can pitch a complete game.”
Unlike a Kazmir or Matsuzaka, you know Halladay is going to throw strikes. Yankees will have to hit him to wear him out.
“Rasner hasn’t been terribly consistent in that regard of late.”
i dont disagree at all. in fact, i wouldnt mind if they pulled him from the rotation right now altogether, but they dont have any alternative.
but if they are going to make a move, i personally think theyd import a player via trade to take Rasner’s spot rather than promote any of those 3 pitchers in the next month.
if they dont make a move at the deadline, i guess McCutcheon goes first, depending on Aceves’ health. i dont think Karstens is much more than a complete emergency spot starter at this point.
karsens keeps showing his inconsistantcy,acevez needs another start or two but at 25 or 26 yrs old if he does well in his next start or two he needs to be given a chance.that is the perfect age for a pitcher.hughes i hope will come around but 22 yrs old is too young but he should stay in the rotation when healthy as the 5th starter.joba will be great,he is 22 yrs old and putting up great numbers.not many 22 yr olds have an era at 2.5 and a whip ast 1.00 at that age,he will only get better.they need an ace in 2009.if they can have 3 great pitchers like sabathia,wang,joba at 1-2-3 followed by pettitte,hughes with brackman and others waiting in the shadows i like their chances.they can trade the surplus for outfielders,catchers,first baseman,relief pitchers.next year they are going to be in a fantastic position with tons of pitching prospects and 87 million coming off the books to tweak the lineup and if they let most of their free agents sign with other teams they will get a ton of compensation picks for mussina,abraeu,farnsworth,hawkins,pavano,pettitte.they should and probably sign pettitte but not both him and mussina and might not get draft picks for giambi because of the option year but should get a few nice picks.they got joba and kennedy when they lost flash gordan and got hughes when they lost pettitte to houston.that is the way to build a team that competes for years while lowering payroll instead of signing free agents and losing picks or trading talent for players,very nice job by cashman.
here is Dan Shanoff today at the Sporting News online:
“The Opening Pitch: Vote Longoria. If you haven’t voted yet for the MLB All-Star “Final Vote” (or even if you have), you have until 5 p.m. ET today to do a few things:
(1) Ensure that the best story in baseball gets the face of its franchise—and the AL’s top rookie—into the game, holding off a challenge from New York’s own Jason Giambi.”
people, i think we all know what we have to do… keep pumping in those votes for the ‘Stache!
“they will get a ton of compensation picks for mussina,abraeu,farnsworth,hawkins,pavano,pettitte”
I doubt they will offer arbitration to Farnsworth. Hawkins will likely bring back no picks even if they do offer arb. Pavano will bring back nothing. If Pettitte plays another season it will be with the Yanks or noone. I could see the Yankees getting picks from Giambi, Abreu and possibly Mussina.
“but if they are going to make a move, i personally think theyd import a player via trade to take Rasner’s spot rather than promote any of those 3 pitchers in the next month.”
Think I disagree. While you’re talking about a 4/5 starter, the market for that is still relatively pricey (Example: If the Tribe traded Paul Byrd – they’d want something pretty useful from the Yankees’ system). If what you trading for isn’t significantly better than what the guys already in the system might offer, then why bother???
I’d like to know if Rasner is doing something differently that they can fix, or if the other teams have spotted something…
It seems like the Yankees think he can be a decent #5 starter if he makes the adjustments, but his last 4 or so times out, he hasn’t… He’s gotten knocked around, and the ball has been hit hard.
“If what you trading for isn’t significantly better than what the guys already in the system might offer, then why bother???”
but i think you can find a pitcher who is definately more useful than what they have in the system. at this point right now, its really not that hard considering the options in-house.
“I could see the Yankees getting picks from Giambi, Abreu and possibly Mussina.”
If Mussina is offered arbitration, I think he accepts. Abreu is the one guy I think brings picks. Can’t see him accpeting arbitration with this being his last shot at a decent contract thru free agency. Not even sure Giambi will be a Type A (previous two seasons are the determination as I understand it). Anyone know on this????
the yanks have a loot of hole to fill on offense next year. but the pitching is gonna dominate
“If Mussina is offered arbitration, I think he accepts.”
i agree. and honestly, it wouldnt be the worst thing for the yankees in the world to have a veteran starter on a reasonable one year contract.
i also think the Yankees will definately offer Farnsworth arbitration, knowing that he’d decline to make money on a multi-year deal elsewhere.
D-Man:
Rasner is a fringe MLB starter at best. The more teams have seen of him, the more his exceedingly ordinary stuff is exposed.
from sam borden : “when Christian – a rookie pinch runner playing his sixth major-league game – took off for third in the bottom of the ninth yesterday, stealing the base successfully in a situation when getting thrown out would have been catastrophic.”
Christian was ultimately stranded, but the point was symbolic: The Yankees know they have to start moving now.”
why does it take so long each year for this team to get in a deep hole before it plays like it’s hair is on fire?
don’t get me wrong, i’m thrilled they took 4 in a row against the red sox and rays, but the early complacency that seems built into the organization seems like a dysfunctional characteristic of a cashman team.
there is always the PLAN. then the plan doesn’t work. but it’s not the PLAN’S fault.
it’s the worst injuries known to a modern baseball team.
patience is called for.
when patience doesn’t work, the real team is put together from the scrap heap of spare parts that no one else wants.
then the team finally get’s ticked off after some humiliating defeat and jeter says if they play like they can , he likes their chances.
now playing wih their hair on fire, they win 65- 70% of their remaining games.
..and exhausted they lose the first round of the playoffs and go home for the winter.
i think this pattern results from cashman’s managerial style.
he falls im love with his PLAN.
takes too long to admit he was wrong.
then works his butt off to get it right and keep his job.
the problem is this leaves nothing left for the playoffs.
the good news is that the team should be fun to watch from this point onward.
the big question is why does it take so long each year to get ready to begin?
Farnsworth bring picks??? I’d guess he’s a Type B? What’s that get? A 2nd rounder?
“Farnsworth bring picks??? I’d guess he’s a Type B? What’s that get? A 2nd rounder?”
yeah, i would figure a minimum Type-B, which i think nets the team thats a pick after the second round.
as frustrating as he is, theres no doubt in my mind he can get a multi-year deal from someone.
exciting blog today..
“but if they are going to make a move, i personally think theyd import a player via trade to take Rasner’s spot rather than promote any of those 3 pitchers in the next month.â€
If the Yankees weren’t willing to make a trade 2 weeks ago, why would they be now when Sabathia and Harden are already gone?
Cashman said he wanted to keep it in-house. If they can’t find someone to pitch better than Rasner out of McCutchen, Aceves, Horne (long-shot possibility), Karstens, Kennedy (if he gets out of his funk), Pavano (I can’t believe I just said that), Hughes (if he can get healthy), then we have huge problems.
Granted, Hughes, Kennedy, Pavano, and Karstens are long-shots to be saviors…but Kennedy is healthy and just has to pitch well to regain his spot.
Rasner has not been getting it done lately. Laboring for 5 innings and always being on the verge of giving up 3+ at any moment is inconsistency that the Yankees don’t need right now. I don’t want them to make a trade. Find someone in the farm that can help. I guarantee there’s someone better than Rasner who won’t cost them prospects.
Think I disagree. While you’re talking about a 4/5 starter, the market for that is still relatively pricey (Example: If the Tribe traded Paul Byrd – they’d want something pretty useful from the Yankees’ system). If what you trading for isn’t significantly better than what the guys already in the system might offer, then why bother???”
Exactly!
Would you give up a Horne for a Paul Byrd?
Because that’s what it would cost to get you a #4/#5 ‘experienced’ pitcher.
I’d rather see what we have in AAA than pay for someone who’s not all that much better.
“If the Yankees weren’t willing to make a trade 2 weeks ago, why would they be now when Sabathia and Harden are already gone?”
no trade market existed two weeks ago, and Cashman was never going to make a move on Sabathia or Harden for the price of prospects that would have been needed.
Fredo,
Yeah I’m pretty sure it counts the last two seasons. If Giambi has as good a year as I expect he could be a type A. If the Yankees offer him arb I highly doubt he would accept. Same with Abreu. Moose, you are right he might accept but its not guaranteed. I think he could get a 2 year deal somewhere else. I don’t think the Yankees would offer Farns arb but its possible I guess.
I know the old saying “You can never have enough pitching”, but I’ve heard continuous reports claim that Pettitte feels the itch of the new Yankee Stadium and that he would love to pitch there. Also, if Mussina continues to reinvent/dominate, you’re looking at a possible 15-20 win season this year (more towards 15, I would guess).
If both of those guys continue to contribute, I think they’re irreplaceable to start next year’s campaign. So say both of them take less money and come back. That would give you the following rotation:
Wang
Chamberlain
Pettitte
Mussina
Hughes/Kennedy/Farm Help
Although I thought Hughes/Kennedy would be the real deal this year and was sorely mistaken, It’s way too early to give up hope. It’s a relatively safe bet that one of them (if not both!) could pitch decently enough to maintain the 5th spot (If Rasner can do it, I have no doubt that they can).
That’s a pretty formidable rotation consisting of youth (Wang/Chamberlain/Kennedy/Hughes) and two top veteran starters (Pettitte/Mussina).
This is considering that they don’t make a free-agent splash in the off-season (Sabathia).
If they did that, it could be..
Wang
Sabathia
Chamberlain
Pettitte
Mussina
(Hughes/Kennedy/farm help to round out inconsistency and injuries)
What do you guys think?
no trade market existed two weeks ago, and Cashman was never going to make a move on Sabathia or Harden for the price of prospects that would have been needed.
..both Sabathia and Harden have already been traded. You’re trying to tell me that they weren’t available a few days before then? And who would you like the Yankees to go pick up? (I’m not trying to argue..I really want to know who’s available)
As much as it would have hurt to give up top guys for a Sabathia-caliber player, it would have hurt me just as much to give up B-prospects for a Paul Byrd kind of guy. Why even make a trade if that’s the kind of guy you’re going to get?
I seriously think that with the guys we have in the minors, we can find someone to replace Rasner.
Would you give up a Horne for a Paul Byrd?
Because that’s what it would cost to get you a #4/#5 ‘experienced’ pitcher.
I’d rather see what we have in AAA than pay for someone who’s not all that much better.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. I would much rather have the Yankees give the 5th starter position to Horne on a silver platter rather than trade him for Byrd.
i dont think they will sign both muss and pettite. I think its one or the other. and i think its pettite.
Sabathia
Wang
Joba
Pettite
Hughes
No need for muss. That is downright dirty
”..both Sabathia and Harden have already been traded. You’re trying to tell me that they weren’t available a few days before then? And who would you like the Yankees to go pick up? (I’m not trying to argue..I really want to know who’s available)”
what im saying is while im sure they were available, the yankees were never in on them. they werent going to give up the players necessary to bring in either player, so it actually doesnt matter when they got traded, and where.
noone knows who is actually available, but i made a case at RAB for a guy like Derek Lowe; Lowe is a FA after the season, so he’d be a rental, and i dont think he’d be near as costly as a Sabathia would be.
I also think someone like a Tim Hudson could be had. he’s under contract thru 2009, and has an option for 2010. he’d cost more, but is durable and dependable, and would be a short term contract at a reasonable salary. Braves are on the fence now to buy or sell, but i think eventually you’ll see them drift further away as the deadline approaches.
A type B free agent nets a supplemental first rounder. Luis Vizcaino netted Jeremy Bleich, while a previous supplemental pick netted Joba Chamberlain. The formula to determine what type of free agent is in what class is not well known (Elias ranks free agents), but the top 20% of free agents at a position are type As while the next 20% are type Bs. A supplemental first rounder is typically in the top 50 picks of a draft.
wow farnsworth for a supllemental first rounder. That is so unfair, and awesome.
I could see a potential trade for AJ Burnett. Jays are pretty much out of it, and Burnett will likely opt out of his deal after this season anyway. Yanks could take the financial hit, and he’d certainly be a better option than Rasner and Ponson.
Alright ya’ll, stop all this jibber jabber and vote for Giambi!
You can make a difference! The margins are slim!
i dont think the jays will let him stay in the AL east. I could see that otherwise though. Still i think the cardinals might go after him to keep up with the jones’s.
noone knows who is actually available, but i made a case at RAB for a guy like Derek Lowe; Lowe is a FA after the season, so he’d be a rental, and i dont think he’d be near as costly as a Sabathia would be.”
You’re right..nobody knows who is to available, so all of this could be moot…but I think that trading for Derek Lowe would take away at least 2-3 B-level prospects..He’s a good pitcher. I don’t want to do that, and I don’t think the Yankees are going to.
i dont think they will sign both muss and pettite. I think its one or the other. and i think its pettite.
Sabathia
Wang
Joba
Pettite
Hughes
No need for muss. That is downright dirty
If you sign Sabathia, then yes, Pettitte/Mussina would be expendable..with Mussina getting my call for the boot. However, if you DON’T make that FA signing, then you have to bring both of them back (if they want to, and if they accept a reasonable salary decrease). The injuries and inconsistencies of Hughes and Kennedy are enough to tell you that you can’t just pencil them in for stardom.
other than the strike outs, AJ Burnett isnt much better than Ponson
“but I think that trading for Derek Lowe would take away at least 2-3 B-level prospects..He’s a good pitcher.”
and dont you want good pitchers? i know i do.
if you can hold onto your couple untouchables and get a pitcher like Lowe for the stretch run, you do it.
“Fredo,
Yeah I’m pretty sure it counts the last two seasons. If Giambi has as good a year as I expect he could be a type A.”
Arbitration rules are here
Giambi could net a first round pick depending upon how he ends the year. Moose I don’t think so. Abreu probably. Farnsworth will like net a sandwich pick.
“If you sign Sabathia, then yes, Pettitte/Mussina would be expendable..with Mussina getting my call for the boot.”
disagree. if you sign Sabathia, you definately bring back Pettitte, too. you go Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Joba and a 5th starter of choice.
thats starting rotation depth.
Does anyone know where I can find (or has) the SWB Yanks pitching order for this weekend?
I live in Columbus and am going to go to a couple of games.
Thanks!
i agree with no free agent signging we take them both back. but i think cashman has been excitedly waiting for the yankees to dump all of tese overpriced contracts. And i agree hughes is not a shoe in. but i think out of hughes/horne/kennedy/aceves: one of them can be a damn good 5th starter. Hughes has the potential to be much more. We need sabathia, plain and simple
turntwo: i think he meant either pettite or moose, not both
signing Sabathia would gives us a HUGE amount of flexibility. Sabathia Wang Pettitte Joba and a 5th. That gives us a 1-3 for the enxt 6-8 years. Phil could come in @ 4 if we don’t use him in a trade. Ultimately, signing Sabathia would give us room to use other pitching prospects to strengthen our minor league positions – i.e. SS, C, and 1B – and may also get us an outfielder
“turntwo: i think he meant either pettite or moose, not both”
yeah, if thats the case, then i agree. it seems pretty clear Pettitte wants to be here for at least one more year, so i dont see why that cant get done.
didn’t the pimp in charge (Ricciardi), say the yankees were like the mafia. And it is where you have to go to, when you need $$$. Maybe he will take a prospect, for Burnett.
by the way, why was Newark airport, referred to as Lawrence Taylor International?
yea ss,c,1b are looming future issues
Pete, have you ever thought of having video contests for the yankees on the site?? Winner gets free tickets to the stdium or something??
“yea ss,c,1b are looming future issues”
Hopefully by the time they ARE issues, Montero will be the C or 1B; 2010 at the earliest, probably 2011 if all goes well.
1B is a next year problem. C and SS are problems in 2 to 3 years. I’d say C in 2 SS in 3. The Yankees are very lucky in that they have regular, everyday SS and C. If they were smart, they would start to build up prospects for those 2 positions so a smooth transition takes place a la Girardi to Posada
Brent, we already know what Karstens can, and more importantly, can’t do. I don’t think McCutchen is ready, so I would give Aceves a shot. Actually I might give Jason Jones a start before all of them.
LTI airport? are the white lines on the runway coke?
“1B is a next year problem. C and SS are problems in 2 to 3 years. I’d say C in 2 SS in 3. The Yankees are very lucky in that they have regular, everyday SS and C. If they were smart, they would start to build up prospects for those 2 positions so a smooth transition takes place a la Girardi to Posada”
Well, it’s tough to ‘build up prospects’ for those positions – they’re the shallowest positions in baseball.
As for C, I’d say one of Max Ramirez/Saltalamacchia from the Rangers will be available eventually for trade, and the Rangers are in
direneed of pitching, which is the Yankees’ depth.The Rangers would need
solidprospects, and most of the Yankees AAA guys have big ? marks, but I’d hope something could be done on that front.yea hopefully posada’s shoulder can come back strong after surgery, or else it could be an issue. I still am in favor of teixera + CC. i know im probably dreaming, but i think that would dismiss the 1b and really make our line up dominant. He isnt having his best season but still. 17 hr 54 rbi’s and batting .278 isnt bad for an “off” year
how about RF, do you think we will resign abreu?
“The Yankees are very lucky in that they have regular, everyday SS and C. If they were smart, they would start to build up prospects for those 2 positions so a smooth transition takes place a la Girardi to Posada”
They have two catchers and a shortstop in A ball right now. One of the catchers will probably be ready by the time Jorge’s contract is up. Don’t know what the timetable is on the SS (Angelini) or if he’s even the SS of the future.
yea i dont know about angelini.. we did sign 2 top SS prospects from international signings. but god knows what we will get from 2 17 yr olds
If they were smart, they would start to build up prospects for those 2 positions so a smooth transition takes place a la Girardi to Posada
Or another way they could attack it is by continuing to do what their current draft strategy entails: “Pick the best player available”. Think about it, if the Yankees get too worried and start drafting 3-4 SS’s and catchers, they might pass up better talent just because of the position someone plays. Young players oftentimes switch positions, and they’re never a shoe-in. Of course if the best player available happens to be a shortstop, then great.
If they continue to draft the best players available, they can then trade them to get the exact players they want..not just prospects. (e.g. trade 2 A prospects and a B for Hanley Ramirez when he becomes a free agent.)
Note: In no way do I think the Yankees will definitely go after Ramirez, but he’s a top-tier shortstop that could be made available in the future (when the Yankees might require an everyday shortstop instead of Jeter) since the Marlins probably have no plan to sign him to a high-paying contract. The same thing happened when Burnett, Beckett, Pavano and Penny were all Florida Marlins.
“yea i dont know about angelini.. we did sign 2 top SS prospects from international signings. but god knows what we will get from 2 17 yr olds”
Kinda does show you though, they plan on getting as many prospects as they can, and hope one pans out.
‘Unfortunately’, they can’t get a Jeter in the draft, unless they decide to lose 100 games.
“Note: In no way do I think the Yankees will definitely go after Ramirez, but he’s a top-tier shortstop that could be made available in the future (when the Yankees might require an everyday shortstop instead of Jeter) since the Marlins probably have no plan to sign him to a high-paying contract.”
didnt they just sign him to a 6 year extention, something like that?
“didnt they just sign him to a 6 year extention, something like that?”
They bought out his arbitration years, and maybe 1 or 2 of his Free Agent years.
I hope the Yankees re-sign Abreu. He’s a good stick, has a good OBP (lower than previous years, but still respectable), and he’s a great fit in front of A-Rod. Also, he can hold down the fort until Austin Jackson is ready for center (at which point you can move people around and find someone to play right).
Question 1: If the Yankees don’t resign Abreu, who are some options that could replace him? (not necessarily free agents).
Question 2: Is there a chance (even the tiniest chance) that the Yankees re-sign Giambi AND go after Teixeira?
“‘Unfortunately’, they can’t get a Jeter in the draft, unless they decide to lose 100 games.”
Angelini was a highly touted draft pick even though he wasn’t a first rounder. He was supposed to play for Rice on a full scholarship so I know he’s talented. I’m not saying he’s the next Jeter but his ceiling is pretty high.
“Question 1: If the Yankees don’t resign Abreu, who are some options that could replace him? (not necessarily free agents).”
Juan Rivera is an option I like. Solid righty bat, could probably be got from the Angels for not THAT much.
Q2: What would be the point? Spend 30 million dollars to have Matsui and Giambi rotate at DH??
“didnt they just sign him to a 6 year extention, something like that?”
If that’s the case, then I need to start doing some more research before posting. Maybe the Marlins are trying to hold onto him instead of shipping him out like times past. But one would think he would still be available in a trade if the deal was sweet enough. Especially if prospective teams knew that he would be “under their control” for years to come.
Who are some other shortstops that the Yankees could look at 3-4 years down the road?
Brent-
excellent point and well taken. Better than using prospects of different positions to gain a SS prospect, with the addition of CC, they could use major league ready pitchers to gain a number of prospects. i.e. Kennedy, Hughes, Karstens, etc…all in all, the biggest signing we need to make this offseason isn’t even a player, but the CASHman. if this plethera of young talent and re-emergence of dominant Yankee pitching has taught us nothing else, it has shown us that CASHman is still one of the best GM’s in the game and knows how to win championships, remain contenders and stay competitive, all while replenishing the farm system @ every position. I’m very happy the direction the core and upper management this team is taking
“Question 1: If the Yankees don’t resign Abreu, who are some options that could replace him? (not necessarily free agents).”
Melky in right, Gardner in center would be light offense but great D. I doubt it will happen but its a possibility.
Milton Bradley is a FA, I’d strongly consider signing him. RF’s are pretty easy to come by, I could see a trade for a vet.
“Question 2: Is there a chance (even the tiniest chance) that the Yankees re-sign Giambi AND go after Teixeira?”
Only if Matsui is traded IMO. Both Matsui and Giambi should be full-time DH’s. No point in having both.
Heres a question of my own: Which signing would you want more, Teixeira or Sabathia?
Q2: What would be the point? Spend 30 million dollars to have Matsui and Giambi rotate at DH??
Good point. So are you concluding that Matsui is going to be their full-time DH from now on?
Maybe I should pose a different question..
If the Yankees don’t sign Teixeira, is Giambi 100% back? or do they look for others to fill his role? If so, whom?
SABATHIA hands down. he gives us so much flexibility, not only @ SP, but the added bonus of being able to than deal other pitching prospects and major league ready guys (hughes, kennedy, kartstens).
As far as Abreu, i like him and want him resigned. I agree he is a great fit in front of A-Rod and i believe he likes not being “The guy” on this team. he gets on base and gets the job done, while having a good arm in right as well. we have a lot of OF prospects but Abreu resigning makes that transition a whole lot easier given that this should be the last year Matsui sees grass outside of the infield.
I think despite his poor O, Melky is still at high trade value and should be considered being traded, especially if we don’t win it all this year and he continues his terrible offensive numbers. plenty of teams need good D in the OF.
Sorry if im down on Melky, but yesterday was the last straw with em and that guy
Re: Giambi and arbitration
It’s one thing to get excited about getting a top draft pick for Giambi, but it’s another thing for a team to want to surrender a 1st rounder for an oft injured slugger pushing 40. It might behoove the Yankees to just let him walk.
Only if Matsui is traded IMO. Both Matsui and Giambi should be full-time DH’s. No point in having both.
Heres a question of my own: Which signing would you want more, Teixeira or Sabathia?
You’re right..I guess I just want the Yankees to keep everyone. I don’t see the yankees trading away Matsui if he’s healthy..He’s been one of our most productive hitters this year. If that’s the case, then I don’t see the Yankees resigning Giambi.
To answer your question, I would want Sabathia more. Teixeira is an amazing player (.272/16 HR/67 RBI as of this writing), but good pitching beats good hitting any day, even when it comes to trades.
If the choice was “Sign Sabathia and stay with Giambi at first” or “Sign Teixeira and fill out the rotation from within”, I would go with the second choice. Giambi in his current offensive form is good enough to outweigh his lack of defense, but I don’t see anybody from our minor-league system being able to go toe-to-toe and put up similar numbers to Sabathia.
“Sorry if im down on Melky, but yesterday was the last straw with em and that guy”
I would have thought that Kazmir striking Melky out 3 times while he flailed at pitches above his head would be the last straw compared to last night.
“If the choice was “Sign Sabathia and stay with Giambi at first†or “Sign Teixeira and fill out the rotation from withinâ€, I would go with the second choice. Giambi in his current offensive form is good enough to outweigh his lack of defense, but I don’t see anybody from our minor-league system being able to go toe-to-toe and put up similar numbers to Sabathia.”
Ahhh I meant I would take the first choice! The FIIIIRST CHOOOICE!
Good morning, guys.
Looks like you have a lively conversation going on here. Here’s some quotes from Hal. In a weird switch Hal and Hank have switched off in the good cop/bad cop routine.
Seems like the Yankees are in sink or swim mode. Hal expects the Yankees to make their moves in the offseason.
I expect them to go hard after CC and Teixeira (haven’t had a legit 1B in years). And even though this one last fling with Giambi’s been fun, I don’t expect them to bring him back next season. He’s a great clubhouse influence, but he’s old and expensive when they’re trying to go young. They’ve waited 6 years for this day and bringing him back is like re-marrying a woman who’s seen better days.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3480942
yea i was wondering what shortstops will be available in a few years. (catchers too, if montero needs to go to 1st)
Also in regards to replacing abreu if we didnt resign him:
milton bradley will be a fa (injury prone + attitude)
we could trade for nady and hopefully not dunn
vlad will be available
pat burrell will be a fa
Manny???
MELKY.
How useless and over-rated is this guaranteed rally-killer ?
He kills the Yanks.
Cant bunt (certainly cant hit).
Swings at any crap that any pitcher throws (promptly misses and strikes out)
Throws well.
More triples are hit over his head than any major leagues since Jose Canseco.
Just simply useless.
Cute name; useless ballplayer.
Trade him for Moises Alou.
Melky can play ‘everyday’ (badly though)- Mets will be happy.
Moises can pinch hit two times a week and actually hit – Yanks will be happy.
Melky experiment….failure. (nice guy – lousy ballplayer)
Signing Sabathia is infinitely more important than signing Teixeira. A Sabathia / Wang / Joba top 3 would be one of the best young top 3’s in baseball. With the Mets signing Santana to a 6-year contract and that already looking like it could be a potential bust by the end of it, I hope they can sign Sabathia to a 5-year contract. I’d prefer something like $110 / 5 years as opposed to $120 / 6 years. I’d like Teixeira also, but don’t think he’s really worth more than $15 mil / year, and he’ll probably end up getting $20+.
can we get tex and cc? if we didnt have moose,giambi, farnsy, hawkins contracts? (assuming we were to resign pettite and abreu)
Upstate,
LOL. The “Bench Melky” rally cry would be replaced by “Moises to the DL AGAIN?!?”
a perfect world:
CC is signed, as is Tex, both for big money, but not big years. I’d say CC
5 yrs. 140 and God knows what for Tex, i dont know enough about him, but that gives CC free agency33-34, which is perfect for a SP. one last big contract. Pettitte is given a 1 year. We get a lefty reliever. Abreu is resigned. everyone else leaves, which is fine by me. offer giambi a 1 or 2 year @ 6-8 a year. trade Matsui/cabrera/pitching for a productive OF. that leaves us with:1B Tex
2B Cano
SS el Capitan
3B Madonna’s new husband
C jorge
LF Damon
RF Abreu
CF OF’er picked up in trade (havnt done research enough to suggest anyone in particular
DH Giambi
CC/Wang/Joba/Pettitte/whomever doesn’t get traded (hughes/kennedy/aceves/etc.)
anybody have OF suggestions and/or problems with my perfect dreamworld scenario?
“Sorry if im down on Melky, but yesterday was the last straw with em and that guy”
Yeah, because Melky is the 20 mil dollar all-star on the team that’s not pulling his weight, right?
still, we would be paying G 22 mil next year. Why not double up on CC and tex, i know its absurdly expensive, but i would drop both moose and pettite, giambi, farns, hawkins for that.
Thats about 60+ million dollars off the payroll. add 20 for tex and who knows 22+ for CC. I think its worth it
“but good pitching beats good hitting any day, even when it comes to trades.”
I’m not sure I agree with that. In the playoffs yes thats true but over the course of a season a position player has more to do with a team’s success than a pitcher. Its a tough choice for me. The farm system has good depth in starting pitching and not so good for first base.
mel –
I TOTALLY agree with your thoughts on the Big G – it has been a nice last season with him as long as it is the last season. I am sure he will get a nice contract elsewhere.
It seems like the Yanks have viewed 1st base as a dumping ground for marginal defenders and signing Tex would put an end to that while allowing us to get younger and more flexible offensively (switch hitter)
CC Sabathia would give us a ton more latitude in developing our young pitchers at the right pace for them rather than force-feeding them into the rotation in the Big League.
So in the true spirit of Yogi – I say when we get to the fork in the road between Tex and CC – take both.
retire#51,
We can get them if they want to come here, no matter what’s coming off the books. There hasn’t been a FA pitcher like Sabathia in a long time (well, since Zito, haha).
“MELKY.
How useless and over-rated is this guaranteed rally-killer ?
He kills the Yanks.
Cant bunt (certainly cant hit).
Swings at any crap that any pitcher throws (promptly misses and strikes out)
Throws well.
More triples are hit over his head than any major leagues since Jose Canseco.
Just simply useless.
Cute name; useless ballplayer.
Trade him for Moises Alou.
Melky can play ‘everyday’ (badly though)- Mets will be happy.
Moises can pinch hit two times a week and actually hit – Yanks will be happy.
Melky experiment….failure. (nice guy – lousy ballplayer)”
Right, makes since to pay 8 mil for a guy who can’t stay healthy for two games. Moises Alou has 45 at bats this year. Yeah that’s really valuable.
I’m beginning to really dislike a certain faction of Yankee “fandom”
Joey,
The only problem with your scenario is that the Yankees won’t trade Matsui. He’s consistent (when his knees aren’t killing him) and valuable to the organization.
He’s also not so great a trading chip because of his knees.
Ray-
who cares about what we are paying him. He is one of the 9 guys in the lineup. it’s not like it’s coming out of my pocket. Would you ever say, “I can deal with Melky because we aren’t paying him alot?”
Secondly, if you are referring to Jeter, I say to that “Do you really think he will not end up with a .300 avg. by years end, or at least +.295 with 100+ RS.
Bottom line, when Melky gets to the plate and a runner on first, I not only don’t expect anything out of him, but i root for a K just so he doesnt ground into a DP. I still see Jeter, or anyone else for that matter, at the plate and expect prodution. Melky just looks lost – AND he can’t bunt! and doesn’t walk! All of this for an arm in CF?
yea there is no way the get stache and tex. that is unrealistic. Giambi will try to get 10 mil at least. Hell he is almost an all star. also if we resign abreu, I dunno that we will necessarily trade for a new OF with ajax on the way.
C posada/molina
1b Tex
2b Cano
SS Jeter
3b Arod
LF Damon
CF Melky/Gardner (melky+prospects for LH relief)
RF Abreu
DH Matsui
CC/Wang/Joba/pettite/Hughes
Bullpen: veras roberston melancon Sandman
Also i am aware Garnder is probably not a yankees starting CF, but with that lineup who gives a shit if we have some speed and fielding until Ajax comes in 2010
Mel-
I can give you at least one team that could use a DH as productive as Matsui and not need to play him in the field EVER, thus nipping the knee problem in the bud. Here are some hints….
In our division
we just beat them 2 games in a row
they don’t have an allstar .219 16% CS catcher
Brent:
I think the Yankee Front Office goes after
Teixeira early and aggressively – IF he isn’t traded by July 31. And if he’s not signed by Cashman, only then do they refuse Giambi’s $22 Million Option and negotiate with him for less.
For those of you that are down on Melky’s offense..Yes he’s slumping right now. He has become impatient and is not being selective at the plate. But Melky is still fairly young, a decent hitter (.270 – .280), and will come out of his slump.
Remember, a month ago Robbie Cano was hitting under .200!
I would have a hard time believing that we will start next year with Damon and Matsui on the team. Eat a portion of their $13M next year and move one of them.
I would also let Abreu go if he wants a 3 year deal. One year would be fine, two would be a tough call.
I really think Aceves would have been up if he hadn’t got hurt. Says a lot about him missing time and still going three strong innings in a pseudo rehab start in his first time in AAA. I like McCutchen but he needs more seasoning. He has been more consistent lately so it would be nice to string together a few more great starts to boost his confidence.
The Yanks should let every one of these guys walk no matter what:
Bobby Abreu, Mike Mussina, Jason Giambi, Carl Pavano (duh!), LaTroy Hawkins, Kyle Farnsworth, and Wilson Betemit.
As long as his elbow feels good, Pettitte will be back and should be back.
If the Yanks do go all out and sign Sabathia – they should have a very strong rotation (Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, and Hughes) that will put them in a position to win almost every night.
That would make some of the young starters in the minors expendable. And with the plethora of young starters, they could package some of them together (McCutchen, Horne, Kennedy, Aceves, Marquez, etc, etc.) to use in a trade for a right-handed outfield bat to take Abreu’s vacated spot.
Young pitching is like cigarettes in prison. Use them for currency to trade or buy what you need.
The bullpen should be in pretty good shape with a lot of young arms battling it out and competing for prominent roles in the bridge to Mo (Robertson, Cox, Melancon, Veras, Ramirez, Ohlendorf and Bruney).
This team should have a lot of new faces next season and that’s a good thing.
And I’d stay away from Teixeira. They’ve already been burned way too many times by big long term contracts to aging position players.
We’ve already seen the likes of Matsui, Abreu, Jeter, and Damon start to slow down by the age of 33 and I’d rather not see Teixeira added to that list in a few years when they’ll already have two infielders close to 40 (A-Rod and Jeter).
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Braves step up their efforts to sign Texiera. That trade continues to look like highway robbery for the Rangers.
“I would have a hard time believing that we will start next year with Damon and Matsui on the team. ”
Why? They’re two of the most productive hitters on the ballclub.
Saucy you better have brought your charger to work today!! VOTE STACHE!!
Latham Joe-
EXACTLY!! that’s why Cano is a good hitter and Cabrera isn’t. Cano is making necessary adjustments and coming out of this. Melky is still where he was at at the beginning of the season. The only way I can deal with Cabrera is as a #4 outfielder with more playing time than a usual #4, being that Damon is getting old. maybe even splitting time with Damon.
“Ray-
who cares about what we are paying him. He is one of the 9 guys in the lineup. it’s not like it’s coming out of my pocket. Would you ever say, “I can deal with Melky because we aren’t paying him alot?â€
Secondly, if you are referring to Jeter, I say to that “Do you really think he will not end up with a .300 avg. by years end, or at least +.295 with 100+ RS.
Bottom line, when Melky gets to the plate and a runner on first, I not only don’t expect anything out of him, but i root for a K just so he doesnt ground into a DP. I still see Jeter, or anyone else for that matter, at the plate and expect prodution. Melky just looks lost – AND he can’t bunt! and doesn’t walk! All of this for an arm in CF?”
I wasn’t necessarily referring to Jeter but he hasn’t exactly pulled his weight this year. I’m sure in the end he’ll be back to Jeterian level but is that even worth 20mil?
The amount you’re paying a player does matter if you’re talking about value of a player. That’s what the whole moneyball thing was about. How much value is a player giving you for whatever salary you’re paying him.
Melky is a good defender and a subpar stick. For what they are paying him he has value whether you want to believe it or not.
Melky also isn’t a strikeout artist. He makes contact a lot whether you want to believe it or not. On the year he has struckout 45 times which isn’t terrible at all.
The Melky bashing is just stupid to me. Melky most of the time is the #9 hitter in the lineup. His presence in the lineup isn’t killing the team. You guys here just want someone to attack every day.
Joey A,
Yes, they’d be a great fit. What percentage of trades are intra-division, though?
I like Matsui and I think the Yankees do, too.
Matsui’s another candidate for 1B if we fail to get Tex. He said (the time he and Shef were both coming back) that he’d give 1B a try if that’s what the team wanted him to do. Not too proud like Posada (an infielder!).
Guiseppe I agree that the Yankees need to package some arms but I wouldn’t expect to get an impact bat. The Yankees have shown that young bats are a premium and basically gone by the comp picks they are getting. For a team to give away offense, they will want some in return.
“The Melky bashing is just stupid to me. Melky most of the time is the #9 hitter in the lineup. His presence in the lineup isn’t killing the team.”
agreed. with Damon and Matsui out indefinately, everyone should be thankful you at least have Melky to play CF everyday or this team would really be screwed.
“Latham Joe-
EXACTLY!! that’s why Cano is a good hitter and Cabrera isn’t. Cano is making necessary adjustments and coming out of this. Melky is still where he was at at the beginning of the season.”
What? So what happened to Cano for the 2 months when he was god awful?
Melky had an .864 OPS in April so no he’s definitely not where he was at in the beginning of the year.
I get it, you do not like Melky but you’re making ridiculous statements.
“Melky is still where he was at at the beginning of the season.”
If that were true, we’d be agitating for him to be in the All-Star game. Go look at his April.
As for C, I’d say one of Max Ramirez/Saltalamacchia from the Rangers will be available eventually for trade, and the Rangers are in
direneed of pitching, which is the Yankees’ depth.The Yankees signed to putting depth at the SP position that way when they need to (injury replacing) they can dip into thier system instead of outside of the organization, we also have 3 catchers in waiting Cervelli, Romine, Montero
The Rangers would need
solidprospects, and most of the Yankees AAA guys have big ? marks, but I’d hope something could be done on that front.who Hughes ? that’s not gonna happen would an Alan Horne land Saltalamaachia I doubt it.
I think Cashman will be more inclined to sign Teixeira rather than Sabathia. Big time pitchers are much more risky than big time hitters. Also the organization has depth at starting pitching. The team will need a veteran starter next year to eat innings (LIVAN!) but I’m not sure if it will be CC.
Also look at the past signings. When was the last time a position player he traded for or signed was a bust? Tony Womack? Then look at all the veteran pitchers he has gotten over the years that have failed: Pavano, Wright, Johnson, Brown, Vasquez, Contreras, Weaver, Igawa.
“Matsui’s another candidate for 1B if we fail to get Tex.”
Matsui went down after playing the field two days in a row. Granted, it was the OF. But…playing the infield does not seem like something a guy with Matsui’s knees would be able to do for any length of time.
The reason I want Johnny or Godzilla out by next year is age and increasing injury problems. (As well as the overly lefty nature of the offense)
Tex is either 28 or 29 – We would be getting him in his prime – not in his decline.
“1B Tex
2B Cano
SS el Capitan
3B Madonna’s new husband
C jorge
LF Damon
RF Abreu
CF OF’er picked up in trade (havnt done research enough to suggest anyone in particular
DH Giambi
CC/Wang/Joba/Pettitte/whomever doesn’t get traded (hughes/kennedy/aceves/etc.)
anybody have OF suggestions and/or problems with my perfect dreamworld scenario?”
A couple of adjustments I’d make to that for 2009.
1) Your CF is either Melky Cabrera or Brett Gardner. I understand both have their detractors. They’re also both young and more than good enough (who cares what some troll posted on here)to hold down the fort until we figure out what we’ve got in Austin Jackson. Whoever doesn’t start out of the two is our fourth outfielder. He’ll be needed.
2) Abreu doesn’t return. I think we need to slowly wean ourselves out of our mid-30’s OF/DH obsession. Of course, I’m going to make a suggestion later which will contradict that.
3) I lean towards losing Giambi.
4) It’s eitehr Moose or Pettite at the #4. I don’t think we should bring back both, and I don’t even know if Pettite wants to pitch next year. I agree we put a lot less pressure on a youngster at the #5 spot, and it’ll probably be Hughes.
5) i think we use our FA money on Tex and C.C. I’m also going to suggest one more controversial signing, if the money is right…..I’d like for Manny Ramirez to be our permanent DH for the next two years. I understand the jams it creates with the rest of our slightly broken-down veterans (solution: too bad. drink a protein shake or retire), and I understand it may be shelling out too much money to three FAs. i also understand he will continue to be a lethal bat, that there is a Yankee tradition of stealing BoSox from under their noses, and that I have a hunch he secretly REALLY wants to see what pinstripes feel like.
6) The bullpen stays young. Our biggest bullpen aquisition should be, frankly, Mark Melancon.
Not a much younger team than 2008, but one that’s in motion to become younger. like Joel Sherman alluded to, you hope there are some Hamilton-for-Volquez type matches out there which will help bring us younger position players who can make an impact in 2010. you hope to install A-Jax in the outfield in 2010 and lose Damon/Matsui. the transition continues.
before anyone comes down too hard on me, i’m paid to be a social worker, not a GM. i fully intend on remaining a social worker, so this is all in fun.
looks like giambi not gonna go to the all star game unless a miracle happens
The Yanks will not get Hanley. Jeter plays better defense then Hanley. Hanley is a beast hitter but defense wise, they don’t expect him to last much longer there. Right now his bat carries his mediocre defense.
Also, I heard the Jays offered Burnett for JJ Hardy of the Brewers but the Brew Crew passed and went for Sabathia.
“we also have 3 catchers in waiting Cervelli, Romine, Montero”
That’s pretty drastically overstating the situation.
Cervelli had a good second half last year and was robbed of the chance to show it was for real by a chump. Hopefully, he can put together another good couple months at AA this year, putting him in AAA next season. But, he might regress to his norms, in which case his upside is a backup catcher.
Romine and Montero are in low A. They’re not “in waiting”, they’re “a long ways away”.
“And I’d stay away from Teixeira. They’ve already been burned way too many times by big long term contracts to aging position players. ”
then who plays first…
I do like the matsui at first idea, however i dont know that he is durable enough. We could risk having him at DH, because Posada could just fill in. And tex is only 29, we could sign him for 4 years big money. Why not?
McCutchen had a very good game the other day in his second start for AAA….9ip 5h 0er 0bb 10k. It seems like he bombs every time he gets promoted in his first start then dominats in his second. I have to say that he is the yankees best pitching prospect above A ball….that is until Garcia goes to Trenton….who k’d 10 in his last outing as well…now if he can only stay healthy.
“Tex is either 28 or 29 – We would be getting him in his prime – not in his decline.”
And we’d have to sign him through his decline phase to get him. You think the Mets won’t go hard after him?
Whozat,
Sorry, my suggestions assume that his knees aren’t like rice crispies.
The rotation of
Sabathia
Wang
Joba
Pettitte
Hughes
is certainly a possibility… and wouldn’t even be fair. If they could stay healthy (cough cough PHIL FRANCHISE!!) they would all be capable of putting up good numbers. The top 2 you would expect 17-18 wins (and would not be surprised at more). Joba if he pitches the way he has been could without a doubt surpass the 17-18 win mark, Pettitte could win 15 in the 4 slot and Hughes if he stays healthy, we’ve all seen what he has the potential (there’s that word again) to do.
I’ve always been a fan of the #5 starter being a young guy. You don’t expect much out of the 5 slot other then keeping you in the games and giving you a chance to win and I’d rather have a guy like Hughes, who has a chance to move up and be a top of the rotation guy, get the experience.
whozat is right on about our catching prospects…
They all still have a lot of proove…
I think you could say Giambi was a bust. We gave him over 20 million a year where he was injured all the time. This is really his only good season and that is only because it is a contract year.
Giambi overall was definitely a bust… a lottttt of money for close to no production for a few of the years, they even wanted him to go to the minors for a little bit and get his act together. That said – vote stache! lol
“I think you could say Giambi was a bust. We gave him over 20 million a year where he was injured all the time. This is really his only good season and that is only because it is a contract year.”
I think you’d be wrong. Even through the “stuff” related injury years, he managed to put up about a half a productive season each time. He was absolutely productive before the, er, “stuff” related stuff came up as well.
I wouldn’t call him a bust. I also don’t think we should be giving him another contract unless there’s no better option out there.
Why would you go after Salty?
When we played the Rangers, everyone made of fun of his arm and how bad he is behind the plate and now all of sudden you guys want to trade for him? What kind of world is this? He is not the catcher we look for.
The Metropolitians know that they can’t outbid the Yanks when push comes to shove for a free agent. It is likely that they won’t even try for fear of losing face.
If you think that it is going to take a 7 year deal to land Tex then Boras has already gotten to you! The real market for him should be much more reasonable imho.
“And tex is only 29, we could sign him for 4 years big money. Why not?”
Because someone else will offer him 6-7 years at big money.
“I think you could say Giambi was a bust. We gave him over 20 million a year where he was injured all the time. This is really his only good season and that is only because it is a contract year.”
This is blatant revisionist history. Go look at his numbers over his time as a Yankee and tell me if you still think this is his first good year.
He batted like 230, 240 in most years with the Yankees when we paid him after he batted 320, 330 and then we also paid him to play 1B everyday and only this season has that seemed plausible. I am not saying I don’t like him for the price we did not get what we paid for.
Heres a list of the players who will be free agents at the end of the year, who have played the majority of their time at First Base…
First basemen
Ben Broussard (32)
Sean Casey (34)
Tony Clark (37)
Carlos Delgado (37) – $16MM mutual option for ‘09 with a $4MM buyout
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Jason Giambi (38) – $22MM club option for ‘09 with a $5MM buyout
Scott Hatteberg (39)
Eric Hinske (31)
Doug Mientkiewicz (35)
Kevin Millar (37)
Richie Sexson (34)
Mark Teixeira (29)
Not to many options… Other than Tex, Hinske’s not having a terrible season… But overall the list isn’t that great.
Christian didn’t steal third yesterday until there was already two strikes on Melky and Melky was in defensive swing mode to prevent the K. Sure he struck out and left the runner on third, but maybe it would have turned out differently if the count wasn’t so favorable to Balfour at the time.
Ok his first two or three years were good but the last like three years we couldn’t count on him being healthy and not distracted. He wasn’t worth the 22 mil a year but still not a complete bust. maybe I exaggerated but he wasnt worth what we paid.
When we played the Rangers, everyone made of fun of his arm and how bad he is behind the plate and now all of sudden you guys want to trade for him? What kind of world is this? He is not the catcher we look for.
Seriously I thought I was the only one that picked that up, but I guess the bat is that important
Meanwhile I love how everyone thinks Texas is pitching starved I mean they fleeced Atlanta on the Tex deal, they fleeced Boston in the Gagme deal. I doubt they are SP starved.
“The Metropolitians know that they can’t outbid the Yanks when push comes to shove for a free agent. It is likely that they won’t even try for fear of losing face.”
Likely that they won’t even try? Are you drunk?
Say the Yanks offer Tex a 4 year deal. Why won’t the Mets go to 5 years? Because they think the Yanks will go to 6 if they do…so they won’t bother and the Yanks will get him on a 4 year deal?
“Ok his first two or three years were good but the last like three years we couldn’t count on him being healthy and not distracted. He wasn’t worth the 22 mil a year but still not a complete bust. maybe I exaggerated but he wasnt worth what we paid.”
is anyone worth 22 million dollars? really.
especially in the days of backloaded longterm contracts, there’s more of a chance that you’re going to be paying a whole lot of money to someone on the decline than there is of the opposite.
Francis-
McCutchen has actually had 9 starts in AAA. 59 innings with a 3.36 ERA. I think he’s nearly ready for a call-up. Christian Garcia is still on the DL I believe. He hasn’t thrown since June 7, that 10 K game you’re talking about was in May.
“Meanwhile I love how everyone thinks Texas is pitching starved I mean they fleeced Atlanta on the Tex deal, they fleeced Boston in the Gagme deal. I doubt they are SP starved.”
Um…how much pitching did they get in those deals? They ARE pitching starved. At least according to everyone who evaluates minor league systems…
no someone else will offer him 6-7 for say 18, we will give him 4 for…22. thats what giambi was gonna get.
Dman…. that’s pretty ugly. I think first base might fill itself though. We really don’t know how bad this injury to Posada is, he hasn’t caught in a week. Posada might become the everyday first baseman and the real hole will be behind the plate. I love Molina back there, a catchers job is to catch and not hit – but there has to be someone available with good D that can hit a little bit!
a lot of people are saying they will offer cc a 4 yr extremely high contract
Not to many options… Other than Tex, Hinske’s not having a terrible season… But overall the list isn’t that great.
We’ve gone through this how many times ? Tex is in his declining phase of his career, there is no way this should be a thought in Cashman’s head for all the talk about Tex Giambi’s been hitting better than Tex has and most likely would cost less.
“I am not saying I don’t like him for the price we did not get what we paid for.”
people need to stop with the literal get what we paid for stuff. you dont ever get what you pay for. and these players are paid what the team offers them.
while he was here, did he help the team win games? more often than not, he did. so over the long haul, yes, he has been at least a decent pickup for the yankees.
Given a choice of Sabathia or Teixeira then Sabathia being a lefthander is the choice. There just isn’t a surplus of lefthanded starters in MLB.
Teixeira is a Scott Boras client and will want mega dollars for multi years. The Yankees should have learned from Giambi about such a thing. Teixeira is good but not a true difference maker. He’s a late starter and we have one of those already at 2nd base.
“It seems like he bombs every time he gets promoted in his first start then dominats in his second. I have to say that he is the yankees best pitching prospect above A ball”
McCutchen didn’t exactly dominate in his second start. His adjustment to AAA has been a slow adjustment but one that is going well now after nine starts. I love his as a prospect but he was slow to adjust to AAA so it seems fair to think he will have the same adjustment in the bigs. I would like to see his get several more AAA starts.
“We’ve gone through this how many times ? Tex is in his declining phase of his career”
thats certainly your opinion, and not fact.
noone is 29 years old and already declining.
Teixeira is a very good player who has somehow become perceived to be a great player. He has fast become one of the more over rated players in baseball.
There’s a huge difference between very good and great. Great players make $20M/ year for 5/6 yrs and are worth it. Very good players aren’t worth close to that much – but they often get paid that way and turn out to be bad values.
If Tex had anyone else as his agent besides Boras no one would be talking about him getting the kind of money that he’s going to get as a free agent.
In many ways he’s the worst kind of free agent to sign in NY because he’s going to be a relative disappointment.
He signs with the yankees – people will expect and demand greatness from him. And they should for that kind of money. But then he’ll do what he’s always done – be very good and people will kill him for it much like they do with Carlos Beltran (another very good player who got perceived as a great one one the free agent market).
Are Tex’s numbers good? Sure. But when people talk about his production they really don’t think about the position he plays. First baseman as a whole is perhaps the biggest offensive run producing position in the game. The average firstbaseman is very good to begin with.
Giambi has an OPS+ of 148 right now. Tex has only had an OPS+ of 148 or higher twice in his career. Good chance they sign Tex and their offensive production at first base goes down next year.
Last year was probably the best year of Tex’s career. When you factor in both his contributions on offense and defense he was around 30 runs better than a league average first baseman.
To put that in perspective – ARod was 73 runs better than the league average third baseman. 73 runs. That is mind boggling. That is a great player – one who is worth $20M+ a year. Pujols last year in what was an average year for him was 45 runs better than a league average firstbase man. Chase Utley was 63 runs better than a league average second baseman.
In his best year Tex was 30 runs better than other players at his position.
He’s not even close to being worth $20M/5-6 yrs. Not even in the ball park.
Would you pay Jason Bay $140M? Go look at Bay’s career production and Tex’s – its very comparable and Bay plays a position where less offense is generated so in many ways he’s more valuable than Tex.
And I know he’s won a Gold Glove – he’s actually a very, very over rated defensive player – nowhere close to as good as Pujols, Kotchman or Youklis. He won the gold glove for reasons similar to why Jeter has – the award makes no sense. That said the 30 runs figure from last year already accounts for his defensive contributions (he was anywhere from 1 run better to around 5 runs worse than a league average first baseman depending on which stat you use).
The yankees have gotten into trouble again and again in free agency by paying players more than they are worth.
Tex will get paid to be a great first baseman. But he’s just not a great first baseman.
“a lot of people are saying they will offer cc a 4 yr extremely high contract”
I don’t think 4 years will be enough for CC unless we’re talking about 30 mil a year for four years.
“Ok his first two or three years were good but the last like three years we couldn’t count on him being healthy and not distracted. He wasn’t worth the 22 mil a year but still not a complete bust. maybe I exaggerated but he wasnt worth what we paid.”
Giambi games played, OPS, OPS+ by season:
2002: 155, 1.033, 172
2003: 156, .939, 148
2004: 80, .721, 90 (hideous)
2005: 139, .975, 161
2006: 139, .971, 148
2007: 183, .789, 108 (very bad)
2008: 79, .928, 148 (thus far, very good again)
So…how, again, is this Giambi’s only good year? How, again, are those not potent offensive numbers?
Molina can most certainly hit “a little bit.”
I’d also caution as to using first base as a respite home for banged-up 37 year-olds. That’s creating a huge defensive liability for the team.
Which is why I’m willing to sit here in 2013 and cry about how that bum Texiera isn’t earning his salary anymore and how he’s blocking Tino Martinez, Jr. in AAA.
That FA list may push Tex out of our price range. No, really.
If it’s going to be a Giambi type of contract, forget it. If Lowell were available, I would’ve grabbed him and plopped him at 1B.
“noone is 29 years old and already declining.”
Lindsay Lohan’s about 22 and way declining.
“Um…how much pitching did they get in those deals? They ARE pitching starved. At least according to everyone who evaluates minor league systems…”
I guess you didn’t see that Harrison baffled the Angels the other night in his first start. The sky’s the limit for Feliz. Um … that ain’t bad paired with Andrus and Salty.
Um…how much pitching did they get in those deals? They ARE pitching starved. At least according to everyone who evaluates minor league systems…
Whozat me and CB had this talk
Matt Harrison and Neftali Feliz in the Tex deal
Kasson Gabbard for Gagme
FA will play a big part for Texas this offseason since thier owner is willing to break bank. I doubt they are SP starved. Although from reading posts here people think they are about to deal Saltalamaachia or Max Ramirez (who’s a good hitter not much of a fielding C either of them) from everything I heard Laird is the expendable one, I doubt the McCutchen and JB Cox lands those type of C, and I hope no one here is even thinking Hughes (THAT’S NOT HAPPENING)
Patrick…weird, the site I got the stats from must be messed up…it says garcia last pitched 7/5 and that mccutchens last start was his second in AAA also on 7/5…weird.
I’m not drunk yet Whozat – but the day is young
Seriously i think you are drunk on the Boras Kool-Aid. Baltimore will make a run at Tex and the Mets will throw their (lame) hat in the ring too, but when a GM sees that the Yanks have as much latitude financially as they have lined up for next year, they won’t bite.
To everyone who is so inclined to see the Yankees let Abreu walk: Who do you want to replace him with?
I think Abreu is a great fit in NY, and he’s a great guy to hit ahead of A-Rod (high OBP, takes pitches, works the count, GREAT at moving runners over). You really want to let him walk and take your chances with Milton Bradley? Bradley will be getting a pretty hefty contract anyway if he continues to play well.
CB, nice analysis of Teixeira. Now how about some insignt on Sabathia. Is he going to be worth the contract he gets?
“I don’t think 4 years will be enough for CC unless we’re talking about 30 mil a year for four years.”
agreed.
if you think about it, he was offered 4 years/$72 million reportedly by the Indians and declined.
that sets the bar at least at $80 minimum over 4 years, prob moreso in the range of $100 million over 5 years. minimum.
you could prob offer him 5 years at $125 and get him to sign, but then you are paying your pitcher, who plays 1 out of every 5 days, as much as you are your HoF 3B.
for me, i could care less about how much money he makes. i would prob prefer to go higher AAV than 6 or 7 years, but people here would be barking when they see that kind of price.
“Lindsay Lohan’s about 22 and way declining. ;)”
Yeah but I think she can still play a decent 1B if given the chance, and the Yankees won’t have to pay much to get her. I say if they can’t get Tex, go hard after Lohan.
ha! Jorge, well done.
Brent (Never Should Have Traded Away Damaso Marte For Enrique Wilson!)
“To everyone who is so inclined to see the Yankees let Abreu walk: Who do you want to replace him with?”
Well I don’t know, but since I have the list up, heres the RF free agents after this year;
Right fielders
Bobby Abreu (35)
Casey Blake (35)
Milton Bradley (31)
Cliff Floyd (36) – $2.75MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Brian Giles (38) – $9MM club option for ‘09 with a $3MM buyout
Ken Griffey Jr. (39) – $16.5MM club option for ‘09 with a $4MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) – $15MM club option for ‘09 with a $3MM buyout
Jacque Jones (34)
Bobby Kielty (32)
Brad Wilkerson (32)
Also heres the other OF free agents
Rocco Baldelli (27)
Mike Cameron (36) – $10MM club option for ‘09 with a $750K buyout
Jim Edmonds (39)
Jacque Jones (34)
Mark Kotsay (33)
Corey Patterson (29)
Moises Alou (42)
Garret Anderson (37) – $14MM club option for ‘09 with a $3MM buyout
Milton Bradley (31)
Emil Brown (34)
Pat Burrell (32)
Adam Dunn (29)
Cliff Floyd (36) – $2.75MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Luis Gonzalez (41)
Raul Ibanez (37)
Jacque Jones (34)
Kevin Mench (31)
Jason Michaels (33) – $2.6MM club option for ‘09
Craig Monroe (32)
Jay Payton (36)
Wily Mo Pena (27) – $5MM club option or $2MM player option for ‘09
Manny Ramirez (37) – $20MM club option for ‘09
Juan Rivera (30)
CB
IDK – We are paying Abreu $16M and no one seems to complain about that contract so much as the fact that he is wall-shy (not that big a deal to me btw)
If we went 6 years at 16M for Tex I think it would be fine. If the Mets want to pay him $120 over 6 years then they can have him.
“for me, i could care less about how much money he makes. i would prob prefer to go higher AAV than 6 or 7 years, but people here would be barking when they see that kind of price.”
Me too. I’d rather see 5 years 125mil than 7 years 142mil. Maybe CC accepts the 5 year deal at 25 per. You never know.
Were talking about filling the system for future needs above, and a response came about drafting the best available player.
This is a concept that has always thrown me in the baseball draft. By the time you get to say the 3rd round, do you really think there