Halladay too much for the Yankees
-
- July
- 11
Some games don’t need a whole lot of analysis. This was one of them. When Roy Halladay is that good, nobody is beating him.
“You could have thrown an all-star team out there out there today and they wouldn’t have done much,†Derek Jeter said.
“Tonight was domination,†Alex Rodriguez said. “We weren’t even close.â€
Halladay is 11-6 with a 2.71 ERA and seven complete games. No other pitcher in baseball has more than three. If he doesn’t start the All-Star Game, Terry Francona has some explaining to do.
A few notes: The Rays have lost five straight and the Yankees have picked up only 2.5 games in the standings. Halladay aside, it’s hard to let those opportunities go to waste. … Joba Chamberlain has a 2.81 ERA as a starter and tonight struck out nine without a walk. That he has one victory in eight starts is meaningless given how often the Yankees struggle to score runs. If he stays healthy, Joba is going to be a monster. … I have no idea whether Richie Sexson will hit again. But he’d be a far, far better glove late in games than Wilson Betemit. … Thanks for reading tonight. Back with more tomorrow.
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Peter Abraham
Sexson will be a Yankee before long.
You know, there are pitchers with flashier reps-
Beckett, Harden, Santana and Sabathia pre-trades-but honestly, Halladay is the one pitcher who just makes my heart sink. Whenever I see him listed as the starter against the Yankees, I always just feel like there’s no chance.Cliff Lee should start the all star game
Personally I’m sick and tired of the excuses.
Ok so we faced Halladay tonight, he’s a great pitcher.
What about last night? Every other game the last few weeks besides the 18 run abomination?
Its a total joke.
Jeter saying an all-star team wouldn’t have done much better. Come on. Man up. Stop giving do much credit to the opponent.
Same with Girardi. Is it that hard to say “We stunk tonight. We aren’t hitting up to our capabilities.” ?
I’m sorry, but every pitcher they face isn’t Cy Young. Its ridiculous.
But I guess Jeter and A Rod don’t worry about that much. They just take their 20 million dollar paychecks and see how many women they can sleep with. These guys think they’re movie stars.
Its beyond pathetic.
I think Jeter is just projecting his subconscious guilt at being a semi-undeserving All-Star this year. He is also rationalizing his failure: ‘I am an All-Star. I failed. A team full of All-Stars would have failed.”
They will score some runs tomorrow..right?
Right?
You can credit halladay for tonight, but that doesn’t explain last night.
The Yankee offense has a lot of explaining to do.
the yankees were supposed to be an all-star lineup…
“If he doesn’t start the All-Star Game, Terry Francona has some explaining to do.”
His explanation for not starting Halladay is simple. Cliff Lee has been better.
You all seen this?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3483972
“But I guess Jeter and A Rod don’t worry about that much. They just take their 20 million dollar paychecks and see how many women they can sleep with. These guys think they’re movie stars.”
Do I detect just a hint of jealousy here? I don’t believe this has anything to do with baseball. In your next life you can work hard play baseball and make 20 mil dollars a year and sleep with supermodels.
The idea of Sexson replacing Chad Moeller just makes too much sense.
I saw it Rebecca the Nats, Rangers, A’s and Reds may be in trouble.
BTW has anybody done any homework on Luke “Brother of Zack” Greinke
The younger Greinke, 22, was drafted in the 12th round (380th overall) by the Yankees in this month’s amateur draft, and assigned to Single-A Staten Island of the New York-Penn League. Greinke’s fastball touches 96mph; the 6-2, 195-pound righty is also working on a slider and changeup.
“We’re hoping for some good stuff from Luke,” said Damon Oppenheimer, the Yankees’ director of amateur scouting. “He has an above-average fastball with good command.”
I guess the apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree
Brandon: Could it affect the Inoa signing? or is that not a concern?
Brandon: Could it affect the Inoa signing? or is that not a concern?
I’m not familiar w/ the guidelines to the IFA signings sorry
There’s very limited risk taking a flier on Sexson for the prorated minimum. Moeller is a waste of a bench player. You can even throw Sexson in Left Field if he shows he’s worthy of the playing time. He did it before so I’m sure he could do it again. Low risk.
Brandon: No worries.
Tonight is just another example why the Yanks need to let some of these guys walk at the end of the season.
Cashman needs to let Giambi and Abreu walk. It would be good to get some new (and younger blood) in there.
They can’t completely dismantle the team overnight because guys like Damon and Matsui will still be under contract and they won’t get you much on the trade market.
So by the beginning of 2010, the only starters from the current group are likely to be A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, and Cano.
And for anyone that follows the minors, Jackson listed as 14 prospect overall by BA.
i cant believe people are insulting posada, he is a great catcher both offensively and defensively. he has been a stalwart through the yankees championship years and has always provided us with 20 hrs and 90 rbis with a obp at nearly .400. even in his bad year in 05 he still had 71 rbi.
Raymagnetic I hate to break it to you, but I’m not jealous of these guys at all. I make plenty of money and have a beautiful girlfriend I go home to every night.
The problem I have with these guys is that they don’t seem to care. The postgame comments, the on field body language. I just used Jeter and A Rod as examples, it extends to the whole attitude of the team. its uninspiring. Its embarassing.
I have been a diehard yankees fan my entire life, but some of these guys are just hard to root for. You don’t see any heart.
What do All Stars have to do with it. Man on second no outs, two bunts score him. How did the they make out? Bad baseball, selfish baseball. How does Girardi deal with Jeter grounding out to third? What was it, a brain cramp, who brings him up short? How many times has it happened this season by this veteran team, it’s embarassing. This is the icon of Yankee baseball, he should give himself up.
Trade Kennedy, Horne, Aceves, and McCutchen for Cameron Maybin.
Time to get rid of the excess pitching and get some young position help.
“The problem I have with these guys is that they don’t seem to care.”
“but some of these guys are just hard to root for. You don’t see any heart.”
I completely disagree with you. The team just isn’t as good this year. It has nothing to do with not caring enough. You can care as much as possible, but when you have to play Melky and Molina and Gardner most nights, you aren’t going to score many runs. And when you have to rely on Ponson and Rasner as 40% of your rotation, you are going to give up lots of runs. It’s pretty simple, really.
Listen to Jeter’s postgame comments. Holy Christ, is he that clueless? He honestly believes the offense isn’t struggling.
Halladay is a beast, but you can’t really complain if Cliff Lee starts the all star game. He is just as deserving.
Well you just destroyed Cashman’s plan, those are the top four candidates for the four, five pitching spots. You have Wang, Joba, Hughes, two very old pitchers and these four for next year. And Maybin is in AA ball along with Jackson. How about checking on Dallas Mcpherson with the Marlins as a possible 1B. He’s having a hell of a year.
I think Dr. J has a valid point though, even if the actual trade he proposed isn’t realistic. The Yankees have an excess of minor league pitching but their main need over the next three years will be a need for position players. They are going to need to replenish the entire outfield and 1B and DH within the next couple of years.
if its not mariano, it should be Justin Duchscherer. The guy has been sick this year. SICK
CP, I totally agree, but this team got old in a hurry. You have maybe Jackson in AA. Giambi after that hot month is tanking rapidly, Mcpherson is mashing in AAA as a 3B and Carson is doing well in Scranton. The Yankees hot trade chips are BP arms such as Bruney, Ohlendorf, Cox and Robertson. This year is a loss, so one of the AAA starters and a couple of relievers should bring you a quality prospect. Just saying. Do it twice and you might have something.
Bo, that sounds like a good idea to me.
Why are we assuming this year is automatically a loss?
There’s half a season to play.
This is New York, not Seattle.
Yeah Halladay was awesome.. by some coincedence Maholm was awesome yesterday and last week Feldman looked like Maddux and Millwood looked like a young clemens and Lester looked like Koufax and Becket looked like Gibson and Perez for the mets looked like Guidry.
Man all this bad luck seems like the yanks millionaire lineup just keeps on running into really hot pitching!!!!!It hs happened like 35 times this yr.. baseball soemtimes is just a game of luck…
I guess the Yanks are jsut getting bad luck..
Or maybe they just suck, arod is ajoke, jeter has a slugging % julio lugo like, abreu has been slumping all yr. and giambi if he does not hit HR’s or get hit by the pitch stinks..
Also Cano may have the worst offensive #’s of any fulltime 2B, and of course everyones whipping boy Melky is stinking it up but he has 4 more Hr’s then Jeter and a few les rbi’s…..
No I am wrong it is just the Yanks are facing a lot a really lot of hot pitchers…....
Rebecca I agree that the season is not a lost cause. Last year at this time I was confident that the Yankees would make the postseason. This year I don’t feel the same way, mostly because of the injuries and what it has done to the rotation and lineup. But like you say, there is certainly still a chance to rebound and make the postseason.
Baseballprospectus puts the Yankee postseason chances at about 11 or 12 percent:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_oddspec.php
And of course, Seattle is at .0052%
“Baseballprospectus puts the Yankee postseason chances at about 11 or 12 percent:”
For a good laugh, what percent did they have it at last year at this time?
They had them at 21% this time last year.
those yanks’players statement sounds like excuse.why you guys can’t beat Halliday but others can?why others team can beat the team which record is under 500 but yanks’ can’t?
A few points…
I’ve read it several times that this team has too many prospects and if we don’t make some deals we are going to lose talent in the Rule V draft.
Why is this GM hoarding his damn prospects? Why?
This is an embarassment and Cashman is over his head. He’s not even doing his job right. You take the area you have surplus and you use it to fill other needs. He can’t even do that in a league where every team is craving pitching.
He’s not even half a GM. He can’t compartmentalize. He can only focus on one area at a time instead of handling all the complexities of the job.
In the past the job was about trading our garbage and our cash for someone else’s fading all star. He was great at that. But then he sucked at the draft.
Now that he’s good in the draft, he sucks at the major league level.
This team needs changes and help.
We are playing 3-4 players a night with horrible on base percentages.
The success this team was built upon was on base and now we have awful players like Melky, Cano, Betemit stinking up this team and taking 2 lousy pitches.
Cashman lusted for Betemit. Great find there genius. He sucks.
His eye for major league talent is blind. I hope Hank and Hal can see this. He can’t pick players better than any of you and he changed his philosophy overnight.
Now we can’t deal prospects. Great. Well, we have too many and we’re going to lose some for nothing next year.
This team needs a deal. It needs some addition by subtraction type deals. Trade Cano for some top talent. Trade Abreu for some role players or positional prospects.
Start with those two perennial losers (what have they won?) and get some guys in here who can work the count, get on base and drive in runs.
Trade some of this surplus pitching for anything. We’re going to lose it anyway.
Most of all, do something. Eric Milton is not doing something. That’s a joke.
Cashman has been in office long enough to give him grades now. He turned the draft over to Oppenheimer and that has been an A+. But the rest of the handling of this team and organization is a D in my book.
Great, we finally learned how to draft.
How about we learn how to put a team together that doesn’t wait for the 3 run homer and gets on base and can make things happen?
That’s too much to ask in between patting himself on the back for Joba’s freak ascension.
Take Joba out of the mix and Cashman has nothing to hang his hat on.
The odds last year were higher because of our much better run differential and our expected win-loss record (which was consistently higher than our actual record throughout the year). This year, we are no worse or better than our expected won-loss would suggest, and our run differential is terrible compared to last year, so the odds are obviously less.
halladay was great but the yankees offense s*cks.
“They had them at 21% this time last year.”
Heh, and I just saw they had the Tigers at 84% chance of making the playoffs. I guess that’s about how accurate it is. And I see it hasn’t taken into account the Rays beginning to play to their ACTUAL ability.
“so the odds are obviously less.”
I see it a different way… Last year, the Yankees were basically competing for the Wild Card, one playoff spot the entire year. This year, they are competing for 1 of 2 spots, making their odds better of making the playoffs…
I just want to say one more thing about how much I don’t like the job Cashman did.
His off season plan was to let Arod walk and fill in 3b with Wilson Betemit or Mike Lamb.
Lowell was never coming here.
Betemit and Lamb (and probably Ensberg) were his big ideas of what we’d play at 3b.
Thank God Arod didn’t go somewhere else or we’d be 15 games out right now with the caliber of player our GM thought could play 3b everyday.
He has no eye for major league talent. He’s a suit. He’s an intern who worked his way up.
He’s not a baseball man. He’s a bean counter.
We need someone in the front office that knows players and can project them.
But we have 3 teams in front of us in the WC and 2 teams ahead of us in the division. Last year only the Red Sox led us in the division and only Detroit and Seattle had us in the WC.
Yeah the 21% percent was very good considering where the Yankees were in the standings. They were 42-43. They were 10 games out of the division and 8.5 back of the wild card. Yet BaseballProspectsus still had them at a high 21% because of the run differential that Bombshell pointed out. Last year’s Yankee team had some bad luck way early on and it was pretty clear that they were a very good team.
But unfortunately this year’s team is pretty mediocre all across the board. Especially with the recent influx of lineups that simultaneously include 3 out of Molina/Gardner/Melky/Betemit. So even though they are only a few games out of the wild card, BP only has them at 11% because unlike this time last year, their record so far this season actually is a pretty good indicator of the team performance.
G. Love,
Cashman never had anything to do with the draft until 2005 when he hired Damon Oppenheimer to take control of it.
Since 2005, the Yanks have had very good drafts.
It was the Tampa Mafia who made all final decisions on the draft before that, so you have them and Steinbrenner himself to blame for that incompetence and downright neglect.
And whether us fans like it or not, Cashman is going to be brought back next season. Hal and Hank both like him and have said in the past that they intend on bringing him back.
Everyone knew Seattle was a pretender last year (except for Seattle) and wouldn’t last for the wild card. The Yankees got a break that detroit had a huge collapse. DFox, that 21% is actually very generous for a team that is 8.5 games out of a playoff spot in mid-July.
Essentially what they are saying is, is the rest of that season played out 100 independent times, the Yankees would make the playoffs about 21 times. Thankfully, 1 of those times did occur.
And if you think the Yankee chances of making the postseason this year are better, you are nuts.
Don’t give excuese.
To tell the truth,the yankees’s hitters are so terrible.
Now yankees want to win,they just depend on the sharp pitchers.
The hitters are undepandable and silly investment.
“But we have 3 teams in front of us in the WC and 2 teams ahead of us in the division. Last year only the Red Sox led us in the division and only Detroit and Seattle had us in the WC.”
Oh please, the Rays are going to fall so quickly they aren’t even going to know what hit them. What they are doing now is most likely what they are. Their pitchers weren’t going to keep pitching to 3 era’s, and their offense isn’t anything special, so they aren’t going to score a lot of runs from here on out. Every single baseball expert said they weren’t going to be able to hang, and they were right.
“Last year’s Yankee team had some bad luck way early on and it was pretty clear that they were a very good team.”
Uh, no, they weren’t a very good team early on. They had no starting pitching, Mike Mussina was in the toilet to say the least, and they had no bullpen. You forget all the flaws of last years team. And I doubt Baseballprospectus prodicted Joba Chamberlain was going to come up from AAA, dominate the majors in the 8th inning setup role, and lead the Yankees to the playoffs.
Joba Chamberlain did not lead the Yankees to the playoffs dude. The Yankee offense did. Check out the numbers on Abreu/Damon/Cano/ARod in the second half of the season. They were all amazingly awesome.
Another more important factor than Joba was the improved rotation. The Yankees starting pitching in April and May was crazy bad. We had guys like DeSalvo, karstens, rasner, Igawa, Wright, Pavano, Clippard, etc making way way too many starts. But then Clemens took over one of those slots, and even though he wasn’t great, it was a big improvement over that garbage. Also, Wang stayed healthy in the second half of the season and Pettitte was much better in the second half of the season as well. Hughes and kennedy had a very good showing in September The yankees starting pitching was much improved in the second half of the season.
Once again, Joba did not lead the Yankees to the playoffs.
And if you don’t believe the Rays are going to stick around, then you haven’t been paying attention. They are better than the Yankees. And they could very well call up david price soon in August to be in their bullpen. The pitching is for real, both in the rotation and the bullpen. The defense is worlds better than last year. The offense is a bit lacking, but the rest of the team is very very good.
“Every single baseball expert said they weren’t going to be able to hang.”
Once again, this is completely untrue.
Im so wasted, i went to the met gane with a buddy, and will feel depression in the morning.
But, I CALLLLLLLED the Rays Collapse, and I will KEEEEEEP reminding you guys of that
Last year at this time, our record was 49-44, and this year? Yep, you guessed it, 49-44. At this point in 2007, our pythagorean win-loss record was 55-38 (6 games better, as they call it, 6 games “unluckier” than average, mainly because of all the 1 run losses). This year, our pythagorean win-loss record is right at 49-44. So clearly in the most basic sense, we are what our record is.
The Rays are for real…they have great situational hitting, great speed, great defense, great 1-2 punch in Shields and Kazmir, solid backend of the rotation, good bullpen, good fundamentals. Only questions are the manager and their poise in a pennant race, and I think Maddon’s done pretty darn well this year.
“Check out the numbers on Abreu/Damon/Cano/ARod in the second half of the season. They were all amazingly awesome.”
I’m not sure what you just proved… 10 minutes ago you were arguing that at this point in time last year, the Yankees were much better than they are now… But then you show what the hitters who we all know are going to hit did in the second half… Wouldn’t that lead you to believe that the hitters who are hitting way bellow their career numbers who always seem to reach their career numbers will once again reach their career numbers? Or did they forget how to hit all of a sudden? And like you said, last year they had no starting pitching in the first half… This year, the starting pitching isn’t NEARLY the mess it was last year. That’s one less thing to fix.
“They are better than the Yankees.”
I assure you they aren’t. They couldn’t out pitch the Yankees in the last series, nor could they outhit the struggling offense. Believe what you want, I believe that a team can’t go from last to first in a year with little major additions. I believe that when a team does do that, it’s called playing above your ability, and that can only last for a certain amount of time. But again, believe what you want, but I believe the last 5 games the Rays played are a decent indication of what they are.
Brandon and Rebecca…the answer is yes, there is an investigation being requested by at least 4 teams about the improprieties of the Oakland dealings with Inoa.
Rays are collapsing, call me out on it all you want, but the Rays are collapsing. If you wanna sleep at night and wanna pick that “surprise” pick, fine, but the Rays are not going to the playoffs.
Gardner>Melky
In the games they play together, let me know why Melky is better
I’m tired of the excuses about George and the Tampa mafia when judging Cashman.
He went into this season with one of the worst off season plans in history.
He went with 2 rookies who never pitched a full season in the majors as 2/5ths of his rotation.
He had no legitimate 1b who could play the position.
He showed the Cano the money too many years before the team had to and also bucked a rule for the team about not showing players the money that early that had been working.
His sheer stupid backup plans for the 2 rookies in the rotation before the season started were Igawa, Karstens, Horne, Marquez. We DFA’d Rasner and no one else took him. The fact we got him back and he’s up here is shock, although he’s showing his true colors now. Giese wasn’t even in the mix.
He signed Latroy Hawkins, a pitcher who might be a swell guy, but has never been a quality reliever in his life that wasn’t incredible hittable.
But on top of all that, he could have traded Melky, Kennedy, Horne and Marquez for quality this off season. Instead, he clung to them and now all of them have lost so much value they are not trade chips. 6 months ago? They were chips.
It’s sad to see a team flounder like this. Cashman has admitted that he was worried about the offense in the pre-season. If he were so worried, why didn’t he do anything.
Why didn’t he trade one of the 50 RH pitchers in our minor league system for an OF who had some potential.
Why didn’t he go into the free agent market and get some competition for our starters in case they pulled their typical slow start malaise?
Why didn’t he get one more veteran starter instead of putting the kind of pressure he put on 2 rookies to start this season?
His claim to fame is he turned the draft over to Oppenheimer.
Other than that, he has done nothing to help this team with owners who have the largest budget in the league.
He shouldn’t come back and I, for one, don’t think it’s a given he comes back if we don’t make the playoffs.
Give this budget to Beane with his eye for players and their development and his uncanny knack for knowing when to cut bait on players to maximize their value and we’d be a better team.
He may not have won any championships with the A’s, but he’s had 1/4 of our payroll and put together teams that compete and play hard and believe in themselves.
Just like it was time to let someone else sit in Torre’s seat, I also think it’s time we let someone else sit in Cashman’s.
“Wouldn’t that lead you to believe that the hitters who are hitting way bellow their career numbers who always seem to reach their career numbers will once again reach their career numbers?”
One problem you are missing here is that way too many at-bats are reserved this year for Molina and minor league outfielders. ARod and Posada won’t be able to match what they did last year. Damon already played over his head in the first half of the season this year, unlike last season. Jose Molina is sucking up way too many at-bats, which ia huge problem. melky hasn’t established any baseline of what you can expect out of him. He could very well keep hitting like crap for the rest of the season. Matsui is always injured. So, there are many many reasons to think the Yankee offense is going to remain relatively mediocre for the reast of the season. Granted, they should still be able to beat up on Paul Maholms.
And hell, are you forgetting that Wang is out for the rest of the season? Do you actually believe that Mussina can keep this up for the res of the season? If so, what were your expectations for Moose on Opening Day? Rasner and Ponson as 40% of the rotation? This is a mess. The pitching is not going to get better soon either, unliek last season. So the team is in a much bigger mess at the moment. How can you not see that.
Melky has 4 more hit than Gardner in the last 8 games, but
– 2 less walks – 3 less stolen bases – 2 less Rbis – 3 less runs
Call Melky better all you want if that makes you sleep, but numbers dont lie
“but numbers dont lie”
Melky’s also batting 107 points higher in those games (.250 v .143), has 1 more HR, has 1 more extra base hit, has struck out 4 less times, and has a .332 higher OPS. You’re right, numbers certainly don’t lie.
Yeah Gardner’s results thus far are very ugly.
Gardner hasn’t hit a ball hard yet…all of his hits have been ground-ball singles. Yeah he has stolen 5 bases but it counts for nothing when your OBP is less than .200. Wake me up when he gaps one or even hits a line drive. And when his average exits the interstate.
And in the same games, Melkys numbers are uglier. You take AVG out, and look who is better.
Not to mention this is gardners FIRST 8 games. this is 8 games in the middle of Melkys THIRD SEASON. Melky should be RAPPING Gardner in numbers due to experience, but isnt coming close
Raping, not Rapping, Melky isnt that gangsta
Melky’s career so far: .268/.332/.379
Gardener’s career so far: .143/.194/.143
Enough said. Shoot me a call when Gardener gets off the interstate and connects on an extra base hit.
You don’t need to compare Gardner to Melky or anyone else.
Gardner’s OPS is below .400. That is ugly for any baseball player. Tony Pena Jr can do better than that, and he might possibly be the worst regular player of the first half of the season.
Like you said, it is only 8 games so lots of these averages and rate stats are still mostly meaningless. But so far his results are ugly, that’s all I’m saying.
“Melky should be RAPPING Gardner in numbers due to experience, but isnt coming close”
And Gardner should have a higher batting higher than Mike Mussina, but that isn’t happening either. Melky has already proven himself for an extending period of time. He’s a major leaguer. Stop pretending Gardner isn’t going to be the first guy sent down when Damon or Matsui comes back, unless he can get his act together.
Gardner was said to be a “Juan Pierre that can get on base”. if it turns out that he is just a “Juan Pierre”, then he will be fairly useless. He needs to show he can get on base, since that is supposed to be an asset of his.
Haha, I forgot Moose got a hit the other day. Maybe he is pushing for Brett’s lineup spot.
Even on balls hit in play, Gardener’s average is a woeful .211…for a guy with that much speed that’s pretty crazy.
I would think Christian would be sent down first, and maybe evev Traber. I think the Yanks want to give Gardner some more time at this level.
Oh no, comparing a dude up for a week, to a guy up for 3 years. Kind of sad that Melky is THAT bad that were comparining him to a 1 week old Baby Bomber. Back him all you want, but Melky sucks,
Umm, now we’re comparing his hitting to that of a pitcher. So, that’s pretty bad, even if you’ve only been up for a week.
wow that babip is crazy
What numbers of Melkys impress you? None.
Gardner having 5 stolen bases in 8 games, and still has a mid .100 avg, impresses the shit out of me. What do you honestly expect from Gardner? DO you really think hes a .300 hitteR? Your not a Yankee fan if thats so. .250 WHEN HE PLAYS ENOUGH AND NOT 8 GAMES, is friggin awesome.
“Even on balls hit in play, Gardener’s average is a woeful .211…for a guy with that much speed that’s pretty crazy.”
Yeah seriously, and tonight was just troublesome. That bunt he tried to lay down, and then on his groundouts they were just like weakly hit choppers than he couldn’t even run out. I think part of the problem is he takes too many pitches, gets behind in the count right away, and before he was used to minor league pitching, but when you get behind major league pitchers it’s not the same.
“I would think Christian would be sent down first, and maybe evev Traber. I think the Yanks want to give Gardner some more time at this level.”
I would have agreed, but I think I remember them saying that they want Gardner to play almost every day wherever he is, so it wouldn’t work in the majors. If you remember, Christan was called up before Gardner when there wasn’t a full-time position available.
Get the fu ck out of here with pitching comparisions, because Melky is worse than pitchers , and HES BEEN UP FOR 3 YEARS
Please answer this question. What impresses you about Melky. I disrespect you if you steer off this question because it proves your a bi tch and obviously know Melky sucks
Traber will go down I presume, he’s not really needed with the pen we have right now (unless we get another injury). They should probably keep Christian in there since he can come off the bench and at least pinch run or play a game out in LF.
Yeah well said DFox – actually I think Gardener’s problems come from his pitch recognition. He tends to lay off fastballs but go after sliders and changes that break over the outside corner. That’s where he tends to reach out and chop them to 2nd or SS. Plus he does what Jetes does and keeps his hands from getting through the zone at impact, but Gardener can’t afford to do that since Jetes’ inside-out swing fits perfectly with that.
“Get the fu ck out of here with pitching comparisions, because Melky is worse than pitchers , and HES BEEN UP FOR 3 YEARS
Please answer this question. What impresses you about Melky. I disrespect you if you steer off this question because it proves your a bi tch and obviously know Melky sucks”
It seems you have no valid arguments left so you resorted to this stuff. When has Melky ever batted under .200?
What impresses us about Melky? Superb arm, hits for a little power, can drive the ball, like above poster showed, around a .268 career hitter, so at least you’re getting something besides defense.
What impresses you about Gardner? One single thing, and nothing more: his speed. If he can’t consistently get on base, then he offers you NOTHING compared to Melky.
Good point about gardner needing a full-time spot.
When has Gardner ever played a season long? Never. Melky bats .247 in a half of a season and nothing. Gardner bats .100+ and everyone panics..
Great Yankee fans you are. You recognize Melky has soooo much talent guys, im impressed
Melky has his arm
Gardner has his legs
take away everything before these last 8 games, and who is better?
“He tends to lay off fastballs but go after sliders and changes that break over the outside corner”
Yup, that’s a good point. He should probably be swinging earlier in the count at those fastballs, because after all, until he starts hitting, if he starts hitting that is, no one is going to walk him if he poses absolutely no threat at the plate, especially when they know walking him is like a double.
What has happened more often in the last 8 games, Gardner stealing a base, or Melky throwing someone out?
Please answer that, I wanna know the answer
DFox, I have found out in the past few weeks is THE stupidest Yankee fan of all time, so anyone agreeing with him makes me think less of you. So your safety, disagree with everything he says.
“Gardner has his legs”
No, you don’t get it. Gardner DOESN’T have his legs if he can’t get on base. Melky always has a great arm, always has the ability to hit for some power, and always has the ability to make great plays in the outfield. Gardner does NOT have the ability to use his speed UNLESS he hits. It’s not that difficult to understand.
Yankees have Melkys ALL throughout the lineup. Damon, Jeter, Abreu, Arod, Matsui, Posada, Cano….and you know what it is? Underachievers. But you know what the difference between all of them and Gardner is? Gardner will tiurn a single between the 2nd baseman and 1st baseman into a fuc king double by stealing on the 1st pitch. Imagine this, whats better, 1-8 go down in order, Melky gets on by a single, Damon hits a single, and its first and 3rd 2 outs, Jeter pops out. OR Garder gets the same hit as Melky, steals 2nd, Damon singles, Gardner scores. And Jeter pops out
In that situation
Melky in the lineup 0-0
Gardner in the lineup 1-0
Also, Gardner spoils poor located fastballs rather than actually getting hits off them. That’s what big leaguers do more than anything else, they punish fastballs over the plate.
“What has happened more often in the last 8 games, Gardner stealing a base, or Melky throwing someone out?”
The much much more important question is who has made more outs?
How many OF assists does Melky have this year.
BTW, again DFox, your mouth has so much of Melkys co ck inside of it you dont want to understand.
OBVIOUSLY MELKY IS GOING TO HAVE A HIGHER AVERAGE THAT GARDNER BECAUSE HE HAS HAD 88 GAMES TO BRING IT THAT WAY.
Thats like having an arguement that Melky has more RBIs than Gardner.. Well retard, of course he is going to have more RBIs, he has played 80 more games..You guys tend to think Gardner has been here ALL season. When a 3 year Vet is as bad as a 1 week Rookie, its pretty bad. And its not like its just 1 week, its all since the end of April.
You need more than just speed. Look at Michael Bourn.
Your scenario is really dumb. If the Yankees go down 1-8 to start off every game they are going to lose lots of games regardless of who is batting 9th.
And how exactly have Damon and ARod underachieved this year?
“What has happened more often in the last 8 games, Gardner stealing a base, or Melky throwing someone out?â€
What happens more in a season? Stealing by a massive margin. How many assists does Melky have this year? Seven. How many steals and hits COMBINED does Gardner have? Nine.
The bottom line is that gardner was called up partially to see if he could be un upgrade over melky. So far he has not shown that he is, but it is still very early. And nobody needs to look at RBIS to see that gardner has been awful so far.
Dont even deny this because its 100% correct
49-44 WITH GARDNER
47-46 if Gardner ISNT up
Makes a big difference
Gardner has shown TWICE not ONCE but fu cking TWICE that he can hit in clutch situations..
I cant wait until Melky will be remembered for wearing a sunflowerseeed hat, and thats it. He is gone so soon. He brings nothing extra to this team except unneccisary immaturity
“OBVIOUSLY MELKY IS GOING TO HAVE A HIGHER AVERAGE THAT GARDNER BECAUSE HE HAS HAD 88 GAMES TO BRING IT THAT WAY. ”
Let’s go back to the basics. Do you even know what a batting average is made up of? Because based on that sentence, it’s fairly clear that you don’t.
“And how exactly have Damon and ARod underachieved this year?”
As far as I know, Damon is having the second best year of his career and been a lethal leadoff hitter
Melkys biggest skill is spitting gum towards Robinson Canos cleat.
Right now, if you had to choose 1 outfielder in 3 years out of Gardner and Melky, who would it be?
Right now Melky hands down.
Lets just say by some miracle Austin and Jose Tabata BOTH pan out. And LF is open. Do you keep the kid that can steal 80 bases a year, or throw out 5-6 people a year?
Yeah being that even though you don’t really know what Gardner is going to be based on his sample so far, it would be impossible to chose him just because of the sheer risk of him being what he is now forever. So by default you would have to chose Melky.
“Do you keep the kid that can steal 80 bases a year, or throw out 5-6 people a year?”
Oh I’d keep Gardner in a minute if MLB makes a rule that you can steal first base, because right now that would be the only way he could get on.
Over his career, Melky’s VORP is over 9…so he can’t be that bad can he. Meanwhile, Gardner’s is already below -3 and he’s only played 8 games so it could go even further down unless his numbers drastically improve.
Melky hands down? hahahahahahaha Oh my God. THANK GOD you are not the Yankees GM. Fu ck this year, we would never make the playoffs again if you ran the team. MELKY? hes a 4th OFer on the KC Royals
Oh I’d keep Gardner in a minute if MLB makes a rule that you can steal first base, because right now that would be the only way he could get on.”
Dude change your name when Gardner starts hitting, because if you check out how he hits when he starts off in a new league he sucks, but then is ridiculously good. Change your name WHEN he starts to hit because I WILL rag on your a s s
“Oh I’d keep Gardner in a minute if MLB makes a rule that you can steal first base, because right now that would be the only way he could get on.”
Hahahahaha.
Yeah this is a no-brainer. keep Melky.
Theres a reason he is one of our top prospects. He didnt just come up like Darrell Rasner, he is a legit prospect. If he was as bad as his stats show, he would be in AAA right now. But OBVIOUSLY he has shown some greatness (Maybe is was the game winner against the Red Sox?) to impress Cash enough to let him stay up (maybe it was his 5 SBs in 9 games?) Gardner is on pace for 90 SBs in a 162 span WITH A .130 AVG…Are you kidding me you pick Melky hands down? Retard Yankee fans
Oh yeah he’s a 4th OF on the Royals…because Joey Gathright their current CF has a season slug % of .267, has 3, yes, THREE extra base hits and 55 singles, and . Yeah so Gathright’s definitely pushing him out of a starting job.
Lets just say Gardner had a .250 AVG right now. He would probably be on pace for 150 SBs. Yeah it wouldnt happen, but this kid makes Melky Cabrera look like Cecil Fielder…Im kid of ashamed having a fat a s s CFer.
Is Melky the 9th hitter on any other team than the Yankees?
God bless you 2 because you guys SERIOUSLY need help if you think Melky should honestly be playing CFer for the NY Yankees.
Peace boys. And remember, Gardner may be a 4th outfielder, but Melky is a 5th outfielder
“But OBVIOUSLY he has shown some greatness to impress Cash enough to let him stay up”
Wow, so you actually think that gardner’s performance thus far at the big league level has been impressive? You need a clue.
Awww, I was enjoying that.
Yeah ok a 5th outfielder…whatever you say buddy. Make sure you drink your idiot potion before you get yourself tucked in.
It sounds like he is more anti-Melky than he is pro-Gardner.
Or maybe he was just intentionally being an idiot.
Oh yeah – domination. The Yankees didn’t do much to stop Hallaway. Everbody especially A-Rod swinging into 1-pitch-outs. If it is so hard to hit him, why does he get off that easy.
Swinging on any pitch and then saying he way dominating is a joke – A-Rod really should sit one game.
Hey, you’re finally baggin on Betemit’s glove. I didn’t even see last night’s game, but I can’t remember the last time he played 1B and didn’t make an error or botch a play of some sort. His defense is atrocious. I’ll take Giambi at 1B over Betemit any day. From what I recall, Sexson does have a pretty slick glove over there. And I seem to remember Mientkiewicz making many comments indicating he’d like to come back to the Yankees. Can’t hit much, but he’ll save 2 – 5 games with his glove.
On another note, when Molina or Posada gets injured, will Moeller even remember how to hit or catch?
It’s time for the Yankees to have Alex take time off until all these ‘personal problems’ are resolved. He’s not a ballplayer these days, he’s just a bad joke.
Please! No Sexson!. Ben Broussard is a far better defensive first basemen than Sexson and comes much cheaper than Richie.
Latham, you’re wrong on all counts. Broussard is not only a worse defensive first baseman, he’s also a left handed hitter, which is something else NYY doesn’t need. Broussard would quite possibly cost more because NYY would need to offer him a MLB contract. Sexton would only cost a pro-rated league minimum, with Seattle picking up the rest of his contract.
““You could have thrown an all-star team out there today and they wouldn’t have done much,†Derek Jeter said.”
If it was an all-star team made up of guys voted in primarily for their popularity like Jeter, then, yes.
You’re bound to face some great pitching sooner or later if you want to play baseball in October. Might as well get used to it now.
Annie, the real “bad jokes” on these boards are trolls. You need to go find yourself a drunk to roll.
I’ve seen games where the offense was just pathetic but last night I have to give it to Halladay. From the start I knew we were in trouble. He’s probably the best pitcher in the American League.
Who else is so damn tired of hearing guys like Jeter and A-Rod and the Joes (Joe T, G) give it up to the pitcher, saying he was dominant, he was tough, could’ve beat an AS team…etc
Why is it the Yankees (aside from Damon) never seem to say we sucked, we’re in trouble, we’re an embarassing team, and we better get it together damn fast or we’re staying home in October? I’ll answer; they’re comfortable, they’re old and they’re content. No fire, no passion, no sense of urgency. I though Joe G would help here, so far he has not.
If I’m Hank I walk into the clubhouse before today’s game and state a couple of points, a five minute speech if you will:
#1- Its up to you in this clubhouse, there will be no major acquisitions, we will not mortgage the future of this franchise to bandaid a season on the brink of ruin by guys who are paid to get the job done and are expected to.
#2- Its up to you to prove you want to be part of this franchise going forward. Your words mean nothing, your performance means everything. Not every pitcher is Cy Young.
Have a good game! And if I were you I wouldn’t buy a home in the NY area, just yet….
Just got up and scanned the posts from last night.
1. Rebecca, in her 12:27AM post, linked to an ESPN story about Jim Bowden and Jose Rios being linked to skimming money from Dominican FAs. Reading that story, it really seems that the whole international FA business is very dirty, as Pete and others have written. Who knows where this leads to, but the potential explosion would be enormous.
2. Roy Halladay is a tremendous pitcher. Being shut down by him is nothing to be ashamed about. However, being stopped by the lkes of Paul Maholm, Paul Byrd, etc., etc., etc., is the problem.
At this point in the season, you can’t wait for something that hasn’t happened yet. Whether it’s the loss of Damon and Matsui, Jorge being subpar, Jeter playing hurt, or whatever, these things aren’t going to change suddenly.
That’s why taking on Sexson is reasonable. For the possibility that he helps against lefties a bit more, and may bring a better glove to 1B. If we move Wilson, then Albeto Gonzalez would need to come back, as we would need a backup middle infielder; maybe exchange AG for Traber.
Look, 6-1/2 games is not insurmountable, but we have to do something to make it happen.
Joe;
the Yankees have not demonstrated any sense of urgency so while 6 1/2 games on paper is not insurmountable, the way the Yankees play the game these days (offense and defense) just 1 game back sure looks insurmountable.
I agree on Sexson, what can it hurt? Betemit has totally not impressed me, he’s good trade bait, package him with IPK or McCutcheon and get a good positional prospect.
The Yankees don’t have any clear remedies for 1B, everything I hear about Miranda is that he cannot field so one dimensional.
No 1B knocking on the door in the MiL for the Yankees, and you need to let Giambi walk at the end of the year, so we need to try out different solutions (including Posada even though it pisses Po off)
My comment is about Posada and nothing else. Posada stinks right now and his attitude stinks even more. I’m not hating everything he’s been to the team over the years. I’m hating the fact that this team has been struggling all season and his only thought is about himself. I bet teams that never steal a base can’t wait to play the Yankees if he’s catching. He’s a complaining spoil sport. It’s not like he’s been benched. Girardi uses him at first and at DH. But that’s not good enough. No he needs to catch even though he can’t throw worth a damn.
I was all for his latest contract. Now I wish he’d disappear. RIGHT NOW he stinks and his attitude stinks worse. How about worrying about the team winning Jorge and backing off until you can do your job right? I know, not a chance.
The last few years Cashman has operated under the theory that the team has to earn the right to be rewarded with a major reinforcement at the trade deadline. What’s the point of trading away propects for short term gain unless the current team shows themselves capable of being just that one piece away from success. They have 2 weeks of play to still show that.
Sexson might be a good stop gap for the next few weeks. He plays a better 1st base than Betemit, has good numbers against LHP and has as high a chance of success as a PH as any of the current bench players. For $200,000 it’s worth a shot.
Need a special room for the Melky/Gardner idiocy to take place. Both have value, neither is an all-star waiting to happen, but ripping on young players is childish and classless… enough already.
I think some of the criticism of Cashman is premature. Yeah, he’s made some bad moves with Hawkins at or near the top of the list, but some of you don’t understand player development at all.
Why is he holding onto a large group of RH pitching prospects instead of dealing them for positional prospects? Because you need time to determine the ones you want to keep and the ones you want to deal. Six months ago you’d be more inclined to deal Veras and Ramirez than you would be now, for example. Robertson is another guy who’s value keeps going up. It takes time. There are no quick fixes going the player development route.
The Yankees are trying to develop their own, get younger and cheaper AND remain contenders… those goals are not accomplished with a single philosophy. It’s more of a mix and match thing. So you sign a Hawkins to buy time for young arms and you look stupid… you hold on to Kennedy and Hughes, they go 0-8 and you look stupid. That’s the nature of the beast. I think the Yanks are positioned to be a dramatically better team in ‘09 and if this seaosn is the price to pay for it, that’s okay with me.
Finally, please don’t let Bily Traber into NYC again… not even to visit.
Yes, 86w, this obssession with the No. 9 hitter is puzzling. And this Melky vs. Gardner in-fighting is just… bizarre.