Holliday in New York? Not so fast
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 16, 2008 
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Yes, Matt Holliday hit a home run at Yankee Stadium last night. Yes, he’s available. But before you ask Brian Cashman to throw a bunch of prospects in a sack, consider these stats:
Career home splits: .364/.427/.659
Career road splits: .277/.341/.449
Unless the new Yankee Stadium is at a much higher altitude than the old one, you might want to rethink calling for that trade.
i still wouldnt mind having him around. dude hits the ball hard
I don’t know if Holliday is the answer, but the Yankees need a corner OF for the future, cause Bobby Abreu is just not getting it done, and signing him as a FA after the season would be a bad idea.
I don’t think it’s the Colorado air, per se, because I think the altitude issues have been handled fairly well. But what are the dimensions of the Rockies’ ballpark? Very different from YS??
he bees not un whos bees da slacka durn games
Those splits scare me – I wouldn’t touch him. How about Raul Ibanez?
eh… If the Yanks lineup as currently constructed (with the likes of Jeter, Arod, Abreu, Posada, Giambi, and even Cano) can’t score more than two runs a game, then adding another bat will do little to jump start them and is a clear indication that this team needs more help than a single trade/bat can provide.
Thank you Pete!
Matt Holliday = Larry Walker
Regardless, is there any possibility of actually getting him, what would it take…let me guess hughes. Is there any other possibility. obviously we can stick melky and kennedy in a package, but that has to be linked to a an A-type prospect.
“Yankees need a corner OF for the future”
I agree with this, but next year only one corner is presumably available. Is there any indication that he even has the arm for right field?
Ibanez is ok, but hits from the left and I think is getting kind of old. Really not many good OF’s anymore. Not like the late 90′s and early 00. Best players are now in the IF.
No to Holliday.
he is a major leager he could ajust to yankee stadium!
Right now, I’d take any bat not named Bonds.
OK, I’m exaggerating, but you can do worse than Matt Holliday.
he is probably the best hitter available through trades or free agency. milton bradley will be a free agent but is never healthy, manny will be (enough said + age 37), texeira is a good option for a bat. and we could try to trade for bay or nady. As far as im concerned, holliday is looking pretty good
Do the Yankees get compensated if Abreu/Giambi/Mussina/Pavano leave after this year? Are the compensation picks based upon production or contract?
Nice piece on Bobby Murcer in the WSJ this AM
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....side_today
Some good insights.
Holliday plays hard and is certainly has as good numbers as the guys that trot out to CF and LF lately.
I don’t care. I want to start winning again.
We need a lot more than Matt Holiday.
Our pitching’s been good, we just need to get some offense, any offense going.
Looking forward to some re-energized players. Hopefully not wiped out playas. Wonder what Melky and Robi did over the break?
Only one OF spot will be available assuming Damon in left, Melk in CF and Abreu unsigned, leaving Matsui to DH. RF will need replacing, prefer w/ a RH bat.
come on folks. we have to think of something. here is the lineup we’re most likely going to see on friday.
jeter ss
cano 2b
abreu rf
a-rod 3b
giambi 1b
posada c
gardner lf
melkey cf
betimit dh
i just vomited in my mouth.
And by that, I mean Holliday.
What’s with these Holiday players that don’t know how to spell their names?
William, I would think they would look at options replacing melky in center. good defense, his hitting not to great…
He has a plus arm for a left fielder, but is a bit below average in right field.
holliday i mean
Your tax dollars
No need to get Halladay or Texeria. We have a good enough offense and help in the farm.
2009 lineup
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Matsui DH
Arod 3B
Posada 1B
Miranda/Carson platoon 1B
Cano 2B
Gardner CF
Cabrera RF
I want Nate McClouth out in center – like by Friday.
I’d love to come out of the post ASG gate flying and win ten in a row.
But as the philosopher Jagger once said, “you can’t always get what you want”
I trade for Holliday. Load up a sack of prospects and ship them out to Colorado.
He’s a winner. He plays the game hard and probably would add a little character to an everday lineup that seems to lack character minus Damon and Matsui.
The number one goal to saving this season is adding pitching. It’s replacing the likes of Melky, Betemit who can’t get on base or drive in runs.
We’re carrying a defense first catcher in Molina and that is fine. I want him in the lineup.
But we need to replace the low IQ hitters in our lineup with guys who get on base more, have more power and can drive in runs.
If Cano, Melky, Betemit, Molina and Gardner are 5/9ths of the lineup the rest of the season, we won’t win the wild card or even sniff the division. Their failures is putting even more pressure on the guys who normally come through. Everyone is up there trying to win the game with every at bat.
With a high on base percentage offense, you make things happen by having more men on base. Pitchers get distracted by base runners. Girardi can put on plays to take advantage of the situation.
We were a team that valued in on base percentage. When Cashman committed 2 starting roles to Melky and Cano, he eschewed the logic of what made this offense click in the past. Add in the injuries to Damon and Matsui and we can’t get anyone on base. You can carry Melky and Cano if the rest of the lineup is getting on base, but with the injuries, you can’t carry 5 guys who can’t get on base.
We need healthy good smart hitters.
Deals need to be made to save this season because some of the guys currently starting everyday are not good enough to get us there.
I really do not think Melky is our problem. The fact that he plays good defense and can lay a bunt 9 out 10 ten times works for me. I am much more concerned with the 1-6 guys in the lineup getting it done. Strong defense in CF is so critical that I do not think you can sacrifice his glove from 20 more hits in a season.
The biggest problem is there are no FA OF available this off season, so any additions will need to be through trades. This is why you stock pile arms, some of these prospects need to get moved.
Vito, agreed, I know Melk is young, but his approach is regressing. No patience or pop.
No to Holliday..
But can they please find a way to score some runs
I meant we don’t need to add pitching above. We need an edit button.
I think we can get by with what we have considering how well the pen is pitching and still win with a decent offense.
To you minor league people — do we have any high on base hitters in AAA? I’m fine filling in from within as long as the philosophy is sound and we’re bringing up guys who can get on base.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08
But if you try some time…….
“The biggest problem is there are no FA OF available this off season”
Ahem, Milton Bradley is an FA.
Also Brandon, nice link.
Damon – LF
Jeter – SS
Holliday or Nady – RF
AROD – 3b
Teixeira – 1b
Matsui – DH
Posada – C
Cano -2b
Melky/Gardner – CF (AJAX in late 09?)
CC/Wang/Joba/Hughes/pettite
aaaaaaahhh if only
I just looked at the stats of SWB, and their position players are pretty weak. If you also look at Kennedy, he’s been hit hard (and his control has been bad) his past 2 starts, while Horne and Marquez have regressed this year. The only guys on that pitching staff that look like they are progressing are McCutchen and Aceves.
I don’t think Melky is the #1 problem. He’s part of the bigger problem which is undisciplined hitting.
We could carry Melky and his offense if the rest of the lineup were healthy and performing.
Since they are not, he stands out as an automatic out. Garnder is in the same category.
I’m not laying it all on Melky. But we need to build around players who get on base with more regularity than Melky in the future.
This is off topic, but I am so sick and tired of people going out of their way to complain about something A-Rod did. Now the sports media are complaining because he didn’t stay for the whole 15 frackin’ innings. Yes, he left after he was taken out. Who cares? He only has 2 days free before they have to start playing again. Is there a crime with him wanting to get back to FL as soon as possible?
I don’t care how many rings this guy eventually wins, his name will always be dirt. Give the guy a break!
End of rant.
milton bradley = pavano’s little sister
you’re right, peter. i’d much rather have brett gardner and justin christian. what was i thinking!?
honestly, i don’t give a rat’s rump who the yanks get. they just have to get someone if they are going to play in october. their offense is atrocious. and, i don’t have much faith in abreu, giambi, cano, and the lefty-gang to get it done.
Hi Pete,
I saw an All Star Game Program and there was a story on a blogger that you list on your site, “Yankees Fan in Boston”. Did you have an influence on getting the story placed? If you did, nice job.
G Love,
I live in Scranton, so I see them pretty often.
We have nothing in AAA. Some middle tier pitching (McCutchen, Horne when healthy).
Our best players are in AA or lower. No help until 2010.
“can lay a bunt 9 out 10 ten times works for me.”
Except that he can’t. Being a poor hitter does not automatically translate to being able to bunt well.
“do we have any high on base hitters in AAA? I’m fine filling in from within as long as the philosophy is sound and we’re bringing up guys who can get on base.”
Gardner was, but I don’t see his OBP translating. Miranda has great numbers against righties but sucks against lefties.
He did pretty good at sea level last night. At this point I’d probably welcome Bonds into this weak lineup.
Anyone know where I can find the picture that was on the front page of the Sports section of the Times today… online?
“Ahem, Milton Bradley is an FA.”
He’s also crazy and injury prone.
If we lose Matsui, what do the Yankees do? I like Gardner, but you’ll lose offense with him.
I guess you take a serious look at Richie Sexson to get some kind of production.
You get:
1B Sexson
2B Cano
3B Rodriguez
SS Jeter
C Posada/Molina
LF Gardner/TBD
CF Melky
RF Abreu
DH Giambi/Posada
IF Betemit/Moeller
OF Christian
Very little rest for the regulars in the dog days.
Anything’s possible, they just have to get themselves going.
miranda should be traded if he has any value, he has no place on the yankees
Ahem, Milton Bradley is an FA.
Hey…. I’d bring the kook to NY, and if he can beat down Chris Carlin I might even grow to love him and consider him my favorite Yankee.
” If you also look at Kennedy, he’s been hit hard (and his control has been bad) his past 2 starts, while Horne and Marquez have regressed this year.”
He’s only made 2 AAA starts coming back from injury and has a 1.04 WHIP. I don’t know how hard or how bad your control is if you’re WHIP is only 1.1.
He’s pitched in 17.1 IP’s and has 18 strikeouts, 6 walks and 13 hits……
“I’m not laying it all on Melky. But we need to build around players who get on base with more regularity than Melky in the future.”
Good thing this team isn’t built around Melky then isn’t it?
while i don’t think you should sell the farm for Holliday i do think he is a great player! I grew up playing against his older brother here in Oklahoma and they are both talented individuals…Matt has much better skills though.
Plus the Yanks have some history of Oklahoma outfielders being pretty good for them!
rayblay,
Here’s a link to the online Yankee page:
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/s.....index.html
Try a search of the photog’s name, too.
i honestly think kennedy will round out and be decent. he has a good head on his shoulders.
Putting Milton Bradley in NY is scary. How many games would the over under be for when he murdered Michael Kay? Anyway, career year for him in hitters park. Burned bridges everywhere he’s been.
I wonder what it it would take to get Nady.
who is to say that split (while big) isnt just him being more comfortable at home? colorado has become less hitter friendly than it was before the humidifier
is there any way to get nady/holliday/bay without dumping hughes/tabata/jackson/melancon
“but you can do worse than Matt Holliday.”
Yankees are using considerably worse than Matt Holliday.
Melky is 23 years old, and still has a lot of potential to improve. How about the fact the leading RBI scorer on this team is on pace to hit 102 RBIs? Despite what we have grown accustom to thinking these past five years, the 7-9 hitters do not have to be threats. They have be able to play defense, but we can survive without their bats. We cannot survive with the whole team rotating on the DL. Giambi has been fun this year, but he really hasn’t carried the team at any point like the past.
Really, Cano is the guy we should be drilling, not Melky. Cano is at the point in his career where he should be stepping up and assuming a leadership position. He cannot hit in the 3/4/5 slot, and that is where we need production right now.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nj8iFKo2Il0
Carlos Zambrano has a future as a Spanish language sportscaster.
Check out about five minutes in.
“is there any way to get nady/holliday/bay without dumping hughes/tabata/jackson/melancon”
Nady? Yes
Bay and Holliday? No
Seriously, what’s the point?
“miranda should be traded if he has any value, he has no place on the yankees”
Yeah, it’s not like the team’s DH, who is a lefty, may have season ending surgery. We certainly have no use for a lefty DH, given that situation.
Would it be better if he were righty? Sure. But he’s hitting really well at AAA right now, especially against righties. Why not give him a shot?
Don’t most hitters hit better overall at home, than away ? Who’s to say that his numbers won’t be the same as a Yankee and he will be lights out at the Stadium and just OK on the road….I say get him….just write the check !
OMFG I can’t believe what Chris Carlin just mumbled.. he actually thinks Cal Ripken Jr. is overrated…this is a guy that hit .323 one year while on that iron man streak !!! There is no Jeter or Arod at SS w/o him !!!
how can we get nady then? i cant imagine why we wouldnt group together a few B-type prospects for nady. it seems almost self explanatory. the pirates must be asking for a hughes type
retire#51,
I used to think the world of Kennedy, because he was a really good college pitcher who did well in the minors and had a good debut in ’07.
But, and I can’t believe I’m going to say this, I now doubt whether or not he has a good head on his shoulder.
From what we hear, his attitude during his demotion leaves a lot to be desired. I prefer that he suck it up, shut up, and work his way back. He needs to focus on where he’s going, not where he’s at.
I have every confidence that he can make it back, but the more he resists, the longer it’ll take.
hollidays bees da un i bees wantin fur dee yanks
Why don’t you post Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy’s splits while you’re at it? Or Jose Tabata’s? Oh, right, because that would expose how foolish you are…
i cant imagine why we wouldnt group together a few B-type prospects for nady.
Because Pittsburgh wants 2 grade A’s included
“how can we get nady then? i cant imagine why we wouldnt group together a few B-type prospects for nady. it seems almost self explanatory. the pirates must be asking for a hughes type”
Go read mlbtraderumors.com. There is a whole lot of nady stuff over there.
“OMFG I can’t believe what Chris Carlin just mumbled.. he actually thinks Cal Ripken Jr. is overrated”
That shocked me too, Brandon. What about his consecutive game streak? That has got to count for something.
Cal Ripken, in my opinion, is one of the greatest players ever to lace up a pair of cleats.
Why did they bother sending Kazmir if they didn’t want him to pitch? How about putting someone in there that actually wants to participate? I hate TB.
“From what we hear, his attitude during his demotion leaves a lot to be desired. I prefer that he suck it up, shut up, and work his way back. He needs to focus on where he’s going, not where he’s at.”
Are you basing that entirely on those quotes about getting up in the morning and feeling like he was going to dominate whatever competition he faced that day? Or is there more?
miranda is not good.
I also think Ripken is overrated.
Holliday would cost way too much, bad splits too.
“Because Pittsburgh wants 2 grade A’s included”
thats what i though but fredo corleon says otherwise. he isnt worth two A prospects, but apparently thats what pitt. is asking. I think they will dramatically lower the price before the deadline. they want to get rid of him, its makes sense for them
hollidays bees lookin good in de pinstripes
“Who’s to say that his numbers won’t be the same as a Yankee and he will be lights out at the Stadium and just OK on the road….I say get him….just write the check !”
Because it’s not “just write the check”, it’s “put together a package centered around prospects like Hughes and Jackson, and then extend him well into his decline years.”
For what? A player who might very well perform no better than a righty Hideki Matsui? Sure, that’s very good…but now there’s no CFer with upside in the pipeline, and the next pitcher in the system with Hughes’ upside is probably in A ball right now.
I also think Ripken is overrated.
Your talking about the guy that changed the SS position !, was 20 HR and 80 RBI per season maybe even more if he would have canned the streak, hit .323 one year, .318 , .340, the guy had he taken a rest would have been a legend. I always remember how he would change his swing every 2 or 3 months and just kept on hitting.
“miranda is not good.”
That is a wonderfully well-supported point of view. I can’t believe I was so foolish as to think that a guy hitting .301/.390/.445 in AAA could help this team. .349/.444/.533 against righties.
He’s got a hideous platoon split, but how can you call a bat like that “not good”? Especially when a DH slot is open on the team?
Remember that Holliday is signed through ’09, so adjust prices accordingly
ripkinds bees lookin dee sillie wit dee baldeelocks looks
“they want to get rid of him, its makes sense for them”
I don’t know about that. They are certainly willing to part with him, but are in no way desperate to be rid of him.
more proof that the big bat we need is named mark teixeira and not matt holliday. theyr both going to be overpriced and to give up a boatload of prospects twice isnt the way we get younger
Brandon- Look at the numbers. Only hit 30+ home runs life. A career .276 batting average. Hit over .300 only 3 times in a full season. Only had 100 RBI 4 times. Cracked the 200 hit mark twice. A good fielder. The only reason he is in the hall of fame is the streak. Statistically, yes he is overrated. The only reason he has good numbers is he played every single game.
Whozat,
Someone said that they went to a “rehab” game and he was very sullen. They were less than impressed.
Now that’s just some anonymous poster who could be making it all up. But yeah, add that to the “I’ll show them” attitude and I’ve formed an uninformed opinion of him.
It seems like he thinks he’s too good to be where he’s at. Good pitchers (Cliff Lee) and great pitchers (Roy Halliday) have gone back to the minors to figure things out.
I may be wrong, heck, I hope I’m wrong. I want the best for our players.
Margot Parlez vous francais ?
There is nothing overrated with Ripken. Aside from being a two time MVP, 17 time All-Star, and (as mentioned) changing the middle infield position, he brought a work ethic to the game we had not seen since Gehrig.
No one ever thought Gherig’s record would ever be broken – ever – and no one thinks that Ripken’s record will be broken. Keep in mind all of the aspects that come with playing that many games. Obviously health, but what about motivation, and ability. Players are commonly sat a day to pop out of a slump. That fact that in the first 1000 games of the streak that never happened shows what kind of consistency and dominance he brought to his position.
“they want to get rid of him, its makes sense for themâ€
i didnt say desperate, but they have two great outfielders, and are have a great OF prospect coming up. Why would they keep him when they can get more prospects. It just seems like a common sense stradegy for them. plus they are clearly selling high with nady. he is having a monster year
People, we’re not getting Holliday. Let’s move on.
“Someone said that they went to a “rehab†game and he was very sullen.”
What does that even mean? From the STANDS, they thought they could read his mental state?
Don’t you WANT a young player to think he belongs in the majors? Kennedy’s whole problem up here was that he nibbled…shouldn’t we WANT him to think that he’s just as good as these hitters and learn to attack them?
PJH – Are you kidding me ?, seriously how do you think every hitter would hit while playing hurt for what 18 out of his 22 seasons ?
I understand Brandon’s case for Ripken revolutionizing the SS position – but for anyone who watched a lot of him in the last 10 years of his career (and I did) he was not anywhere near a top-tier player.
He compiled numbers, resisted moving to 3B long after his defense had fallen off, and big-timed the organization whenever it suited his purposes. (btw – Angelos is an a$$ and I had no problem with Cal sticking it to him)
Great record, very good player, but overrated.
Trade Melky and Kennedy and whoever for Holliday. Although I seriously doubt anybody would want them. Its hard to believe they could have gotten Santana for them.
Then pick up Sexson and Bonds from the Garbage heap. Hey when it all comes down to it the Yanks would and have historically signed anybody they thought would add something . If you look at the Clemens signing last year (1 mil a start!) Bonds at 20,000$ a game is a bargain. What is he going to disrupt some bulls**t clubhouse chemistry that they don’t even have in the first place.
Gardner CF
Jeter SS
ARod 3b
Bonds DH
Giambi/Sexson 1b
Holliday LF
Abreu RF
Posada/Molina C
Cano 2b
I know, I’m smokin crack but hey it worked for Hamilton.
kennedys been poutin in dee lowdowns den he gots ta goes see yas
Yeah Milton Bradley is a horrible teammate. The way he was smiling and fooling around with his all star teammates, the way he was wiping hamilton down during the home run derby…what a jerk
“Just write the check.” That attitude is what’s been wrong with the Yankees since the beginning of the millennium.
“Why would they keep him when they can get more prospects. It just seems like a common sense stradegy for them. plus they are clearly selling high with nady. he is having a monster year”
Ok, but if no one’s going to buy high on him, then I can see them holding on to him and trading in the offseason. The free agent market for RFers is so weak that teams might actually be willing to spend more in trade for him in the offseason than now.
In his prime, Ripken was one of the greatest.
He declined, as most ballplayers do, and now many in my generation only remember his later years.
It’s true that he has a career .790 OPS on the road, but he has improved his road OPS every year since 2005:
2005- .729 road OPS
2006- .819
2007- .860
2008- .859, okay so that’s not an improvement, but its not regression, and its still pretty damn good.
“Your talking about the guy that changed the SS position !, was 20 HR and 80 RBI per season maybe even more if he would have canned the streak, hit .323 one year, .318 , .340, the guy had he taken a rest would have been a legend. ”
Hey may have changed the position but his lifetime OBP is .340 and lifetime batting average is .276. He was good but he wasn’t some GodLike SS. A-Rod was. Healthy Nomar was. Jeter is below those guys but a better all around hitter then Cal was.
“Its hard to believe they could have gotten Santana for them.”
THEY COULDN’T HAVE.
Can this rumor PLEASE die?
brandons bees makin dee sweeteyes on me
“okay so that’s not an improvement, but its not regression, and its still pretty damn good.”
Yep. It’s about Matsui-level production. Very good. Worth Hughes/Jackson and other pieces for a year+ of that kind of production?
I’m sure happy that some of you aren’t the Yankees’ GM…
Milton Bradley seems to be a misunderstood player. It seems his temper has caused him a lot of problems, but otherwise he is supposed to be a great person. Peter Gammons said yesterday that when he was sick last year, Milton Bradley wrote him more than any other player during that time.
We have had the likes of Strawberry, Gooden, Howe and Sheffield – how is that any different than Bradley?
“Worth Hughes/Jackson and other pieces for a year+ of that kind of production?”
The implication being that I don’t think it is worth that price
Brandon- Thats a terribly lame excuse. Anyone can say they played hurt. If he had significant injuries he would not have been able to play every game.
No to Holliday and a huge Yes to Ryan Spilborghs! I know Spilborghs is out with an oblique strain.
Second do whatever to get Mat Gamel!!! He has the perfect Yankee Stadium swing. Trade Kennedy, Farnsworth(gives them a pick) and JB Cox or whatever just do it Cash!
“We have had the likes of Strawberry, Gooden, Howe and Sheffield – how is that any different than Bradley?”
He’s more explosive than Sheff, I think. The thing that spooks me more is his injury history.
“The free agent market for RFers is so weak that teams might actually be willing to spend more in trade for him in the offseason than now.”
Yeaa…
I have no doubt that the Rockies will snag at the very least one frontline starter-potential prospect from someone for Holliday, be it midseason or in the offseason. A very good hitter at 28 years old signed through ’09…if O’Dowd does his job, Holliday should bring in a good haul.
Whozat,
How am I supposed to answer that? I’m trying to have a civil conversation here.
I told you, I used to love Kennedy. I’m sure he was told to stop nibbling before, during, and after each of his major league starts this season. But he didn’t. Is it because he’s stubborn? Thinks he knows better? Or is because that’s what his game is? Painting the corners just like the one pitcher he’s so famously compared to.
You’ve also got Joe Girardi saying he has to earn your way back. That’s not a mechanical issue. That’s an attitude issue.
Like I said, I want the best for Ian. We go as he and Phil go.
Some of you people don’t make sense. During Yankee games, when they are wasting away offensively, you come here and complain. Then when it comes to Holliday, you give a quick “no”. Uh, if you pop Holliday into the Yankees lineup right now, it goes from looking bellow average to unbelievable. Jeter, A-Rod, Holliday, Giambi, Posada, and hopefully Damon in the same lineup? Come on, that’s pretty sick. And about the splits… Who knows, but all I know is last night I saw an all star, Matt Holliday, hit a homerun IN Yankees stadium off another all star. That’s all I needed to see.
If they can get Holliday for any sort of reasonable price, they have to do it.
Mantle played hurt for most of his career and Cal’s career couldnt hold a candle to the Mick’s.
I cant stand Chris Carlin either, but he is dead on…Cal Ripken is extremely overrated.
“The thing that spooks me more is his injury history.”
Good point.
Brandon, that photo was amazing. I found myself in the stands. I’m having an internal battle as to whether the cool factor outweighs “the Big Brother that freaks me out” factor. Thanks for posting the link.
And Dr. J (2:09), the lineup you would be happy with would win 81 games.
Brandon- Thats a terribly lame excuse. Anyone can say they played hurt. If he had significant injuries he would not have been able to play every game.
I don’t know what to say after reading this, the man played 2,632 games before he said you know what I need a break, it’s not like he sucked either, put it this way I don’t know any player today that can contend that.
“No one ever thought Gherig’s record would ever be broken – ever – and no one thinks that Ripken’s record will be broken.”
Of course the only record that will never be broken belongs to Johnny Van Demeer (sp?)…
“all I know is last night I saw an all star, Matt Holliday, hit a homerun IN Yankees stadium”
That was barely a home run – in October it is a double at best.
the problem with milton bradley is not so much is additude. its mostly the injury issues. He has never played a full season or had nearly this kind of power production. I like him, i just think its a big risk for the kind of money he will want
On wfan, did Chris just let the cat out of the bag? Mentioned something at Yankee Stadium in Novemeber. Anyone know anything about this?
Also, for the people who are so scared of trading prospects, just stop, it’s getting boring. If it takes Ian Kennedy, it takes Ian Kennedy. Supposedly the Rockies were interested in him, so there is no reason the Yankees shouldn’t trade him. They have tons of young pitchers, you can’t keep them all.
“Worth Hughes/Jackson and other pieces for a year+ of that kind of production?â€
First of all, I’m assuming the Yankees would give him an extension. Also, I wasn’t saying we should trade Hughes and Jackson for him, just that he would still be a very good player even if he didn’t play at Coors. I don’t think I would trade the two of them, but a deal should at least be explored.
That was barely a home run – in October it is a double at best.
That is a dumb comment, he destroyed the ball regardless, it was a great piece of hitting.
“If they can get Holliday for any sort of reasonable price, they have to do it.”
You are missing what I’ve been saying for a few days now. They CAN’T get Holliday. I just don’t see COL dealing him right now. It’s not like he’s going to be a free agent this year. Also, this guy is the face of the Rockies. If SEA isn’t trading Ichiro, COL isn’t trading Holliday. That’s my opinion; I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
“kennedys been poutin in dee lowdowns den he gots ta goes see yas”
Um, stop it.
Yeh NASA works in wonderful ways
Your Tax Dollars
DFox, it’s not Kennedy. To get Holliday, I’m sure the Rockies would start with Hughes and AJax and go from there.
I also heard the Ripken discussion. To me he’s sort of an intangibles guy. He had the consecutive games streak, redefined the position of SS and had a way of showing up big in big moments but others who have played the position put up bigger career numbers.
Vin: Was his the back to back no-hitters?
Hey, if we are talking Kennedy and some B prospects for Holliday then that is a different story. But that is only b/c I consider Kennedy a B prospect at this point.
the problem is that nothing takes just ian kennedy, he is a small trade chip as of now. apparently he will play a key role if they get fuentes, but i would rather hold on to kennedy. Fuentes is not going to get us to the play offs
TINSTAAPP
Not sure why but cashman seems to want to hold on to every minor league pitcher in the system. Im sure he has a plan, but he really should consider trading some of the minor league arms
Everything I’ve read indicates Bradley is a great teammate and San Diego did offer him $ 4 million to stay, but Texcas offered more.
But the dude has anger management issues and I don’t know that they’ve been solved. Bottom line, you don’t invest heavily in a guy who has played for six teams in nine years and who, coming into this season has never hit 20 HR, never stolen 20 bases, never driven in 70 runs.
He’s having a career hald year in Texas and would be foolish to leave the first place where he’s been healthy, productive and popular.
As for Nady.. I think Kennedy and Ohlendorf would do it… would you make that deal?
For any layman to say anyone’s overrated is ridiculous.
Teams will up the ante big time if we lose Matsui.
Brandon I tried posting that earlier, but I guess it got stuck in spam. That is insane!!
“Also, for the people who are so scared of trading prospects, just stop, it’s getting boring. If it takes Ian Kennedy, it takes Ian Kennedy. Supposedly the Rockies were interested in him, so there is no reason the Yankees shouldn’t trade him. They have tons of young pitchers, you can’t keep them all.”
Who’s worrying about trading Kennedy for Holliday?
“First of all, I’m assuming the Yankees would give him an extension.”
Any extension he’s willing to sign will have to extend into his decline phase, which is a worry unto itself.
I look at it this way…would I trade one or two front-line young players for 4-5 expensive years of (prime) Hideki Matsui and 2-3 years of his decline? I don’t think I would do that, no.
jennifer: It’s well known there are closing ceremonies planned for November, but I’m not sure what, exactly, they’re planning
Blargh,
Yep. good luck throwing 3 straight no-no’s.
“I just don’t see COL dealing him right now.”
That’s why you have a general manager, Brian Cashman, who is supposed to be good at what he does. He’s supposed to work deals. And also, I’m going off what Pete said and what others have said, that he IS available…
“DFox, it’s not Kennedy. To get Holliday, I’m sure the Rockies would start with Hughes and AJax and go from there.”
Like I said above, that’s Brian Cashman’s job. To work magic. They are going to want Hughes and AJAX for someone they are going to lose in 2009? Cashman should be able to talk them down to Kennedy, and hopefully someone/people besides AJAX.
Why do people think Nady is good? He couldn’t even play for the Mets! Come on people. The guy is having a career year and he is still not playing that good.
Rebecca that is the first time I’ve heard it.
Troy Tulowitski (sp?) is the face of the Rocks – not Holliday. They know they aren’t going to be able to keep him and they are going to try to maximize his value in trade.
“As for Nady.. I think Kennedy and Ohlendorf would do it… would you make that deal?”
No. That’s another guy having a career year. He’ll revert to the merely solid player he is soon enough. And NOT that that’s bad; but I really do see Kennedy as a solid, cheap back-of-the-rotation option for the next six years. And I think that’s worth a lot more than a RFer who puts up a 110 OPS+.
“Also, for the people who are so scared of trading prospects, just stop, it’s getting boring. If it takes Ian Kennedy, it takes Ian Kennedy. Supposedly the Rockies were interested in him, so there is no reason the Yankees shouldn’t trade him.”
Sure they’re interested in Kennedy. They just want to send Fuentes back for Kennedy. Do you like that trade? I sure as hell don’t.
Wow, DFox. You’re tough. There will be a huge market for Holliday. The Rockies have no insentive to sell him for 10 cents on the dollar. And people don’t give the Yanks discounts.
I think the mutant spawn of Billy Beane and Gabe Pual couldn’t make the deal you want Cash to make.
Fox showed Bradley twice on the bench last night. During Longoria’s first AB. And later (a lot later) after a good play by Longoria. Just staring. Fox was definitely trying to create some drama. Finally towards the end he looked happy. Maybe he was just tired.
Bradley would be fine. Bonds would be fine. Just like Ponson has been fine.
You really can’t use personal stuff as an excuse to hate on someone. They almost always behave in a new situation, especially with the Yankees. So many eyes.
Let’s get real about Nady. It would take a lot more than IPK and Ohlendorf.
From mlbtraderumors.com:
According to ESPN’s Buster Olney:
The asking price for Xavier Nady is considered to be extraordinarily high right now, and rival executives have a sense that the Pirates are not going to lower their demands for the corner outfielder before the trade deadline. Nady will be arbitration-eligible this winter.
Nady, 29, is hitting .321/.377/.525 in 337 plate appearances this year despite multiple nagging injuries. Nady is under team control through ’09; he’ll go through the arbitration process one more time and could earn $6MM or more next year. That’s valuable – the free agent market for right fielders is weak.
Dejan Kovacevic of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette says the Yankees, Mets, Rays, and Braves have at least some interest in Nady. He’s still more likely to be dealt than Jason Bay.
“Like I said above, that’s Brian Cashman’s job. To work magic. They are going to want Hughes and AJAX for someone they are going to lose in 2009? Cashman should be able to talk them down to Kennedy, and hopefully someone/people besides AJAX.”
He should? Why would Colorado ever do that? They’re not going to lose him until AFTER 2009. There’s this whole offseason AND next year’s deadline. They aren’t in a hurry to trade Holliday.
I think Holliday would be a perfect fit we can trade Melky and kennedy and low A prospect it would cost nothing.
This would be a great trade for the Yankees I don’t know why so much suspense.
Trade for him now! (Ian Kennedy + 2 other prospects that are not Brett Gardner, A-Jax, Phil Hughes, or even worst Montero)
“That’s why you have a general manager, Brian Cashman, who is supposed to be good at what he does. He’s supposed to work deals. And also, I’m going off what Pete said and what others have said, that he IS available…”
Well, then the GM for COL is a fool. Why would you trade the blue chip of your team a year after you almost won it all? What does that say to the Rockies fan? It says to me that last year was a fluke and that they are years away from being serious about contending again.
If COL is willing to deal Holliday, then we need to get on the phone with SEA to see if we can get Ichiro. Surely, he’s available….
“Not sure why but cashman seems to want to hold on to every minor league pitcher in the system. Im sure he has a plan, but he really should consider trading some of the minor league arms”
Who’s to say Cashman isn’t exploring trades? Just because he hasn’t traded for who YOU want him to trade for doesn’t mean he’s afraid to trade anybody.
Holliday’s away numbers are much better over the last season and a half, Pete. Don’t let his early years fool you.
I would love to get Holliday, but I don’t want to mortgage the farm to get him. Which means we won’t get him, at least not this year. And that’s OK with me.
Nady would be a good option if he’s cheaper. We can’t give up A prospects for him; he’s just not good enough to justify it.
I hope we don’t give up anything of value for a bullpen arm. The pen has been fine, and we’ve got a ton of high upside bullpen arms coming up the ranks.
What we need is a starter, but I’m not sure there’s anyone out there to be had for anything close to a reasonable price. I DO NOT want Randy Wolf. He’s been terrible away from PETCO.
“Wow, DFox. You’re tough. There will be a huge market for Holliday. The Rockies have no insentive to sell him for 10 cents on the dollar. And people don’t give the Yanks discounts.”
I’m not saying 10 cents on the dollar… Ian Kennedy and OTHER prospects… If it requires AJAX, then you might have to go down that path. But I bet you said the same thing when the Phillies were trading Abreu. Do you remember anyone Cashman gave them?
“Sure they’re interested in Kennedy. They just want to send Fuentes back for Kennedy. Do you like that trade? I sure as hell don’t.”
If the Yankees actually needed more relief pitching, I wouldn’t hate it, but being that their bullpen is a strength, it would be stupid.
raymagnetic,
LOL. Either Cashman’s not working the phones or no one wants our prospects. Neither is very appealing.
Even though I doubt that it will happen, I have no problem with the Yankees trading Kennedy for Holliday along with 2 low level prospects. Anything else and we’ll be overpaying.
I think the Yankees should do these deals:
Kei Igawa for Brian Fuentes
Ohelendorf and Marquez for Matt Holliday
Justin Christian straight up for Xavier Nady
Roger Maris’s retired number for Jason Bay
The laundry bin in the Yanks locker room for A.J. Burnett
Some dirt from the Yankee infield for Jarrod Washburn
If Cash can’t make these deals, he should be fired.
I think it is fair to say that we have no idea what the value of these guys is until a deal is done. Did the Abreu deal make any sense when you first heard it? People thought it would take Hughes and A-Jax to get Harden and the actual deal was nothing close to that.
The insane reflexes on both extremes make no sense.
ML i agree with everything you just said.
Actually, DFox, nobody wanted Abreu because of his contract. Nobody was willing to pick up the year and a half and $24 million that was left. Not even the Red Sox. The Phillies had a choice between the Yanks offer (of garbage) or keeping Abreu. They chose to unload him.
The Rockies will have five or six teams in a bidding war. Not even close to the same situation.
“But I bet you said the same thing when the Phillies were trading Abreu. Do you remember anyone Cashman gave them?”
Abreu was a salary dump. Getting him out of town was the Phillies reward.
Holliday is NOT a salary dump. He’s a guy the Rockies can use to reload their system and guys like Kennedy simply won’t do it. Ti trade for him this year will be two A-list guys at a minimum.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Igawa. I wonder if there will be a time when a NL team will want a very cheap #5 starter? I’d like for him to have some success in the majors. He was too good in Japan to not have something translate.
“Why would you trade the blue chip of your team a year after you almost won it all? What does that say to the Rockies fan? It says to me that last year was a fluke and that they are years away from being serious about contending again.”
Wait, you’re losing me… The Rockies fans still think they’re a good team? They are 18 games under .500 and 8.5 GB. If you can get whooped with Holliday, you can get whooped just as well without him. That’s what I would tell the fans…
“He should? Why would Colorado ever do that? They’re not going to lose him until AFTER 2009. There’s this whole offseason AND next year’s deadline. They aren’t in a hurry to trade Holliday.”
You don’t understand value. The later they do the trade, the LESS they get for him. Once again, if you can lose with him, you can lose without him. Everyone knows the Rockies won’t be able to sign him. Get to next year, and what are they going to get for him? Very little.
jennifer: Not sure where I heard it first, but yeah.
Don’t know what they have planned though.
Honestly? I’d like to see the Stadium closed out by a top ninth, game seven World Series, strike out from Mariano Rivera.
I’m not sure anything else would be right.
If Big George were still calling the shots Melky would have packed his bags long ago.
“Even though I doubt that it will happen, I have no problem with the Yankees trading Kennedy for Holliday along with 2 low level prospects. Anything else and we’ll be overpaying.”
doubt it will happen! kennedy would be one of the lower level prospects. try hughes tabata kennedy. holliday is a great great player, he would cost a LOT.
Laura, last years Rockies run was a fluke, unless you think this year is more the fluke.
Mitch you made made day.
you forgot to add demose marte for jeters batting gloves.
Don’t waste talent on fuentes. He’s a good player, but we don’t need bullpen as much as a power bat. Veras is solid, robertson is good, if we need another good reliever we have melancon in AA, farnsworth is good, brett gardner + melky cabrera= awful.
Cano will turn it up, he should not be traded. He has a good track record, and is much better than the raplacement in AAA. If we go for a big star, his team will not add a second baseman in the deal so we’d be stuck with junk.
Miranda is good, and with giambi becoming a FA, betemit not being good enough to be a full-time 1b let alone a serviceable one, shelley duncan sucking, and jeter not moving to 1b any time soon, miranda will be getting playing time. If he’s traded our option will be shelley duncan!
There’s no reason to sink that low.
I love how people just completely disregard $9,500,000 contracts like Holliday’s. For a small market team that isn’t anywhere close to contention, I’d say that’s a significant amount of money.
Retire #51,
Thank you. I agree with everything you just said.
Is Ichiro available?
“try hughes tabata kennedy”
That would be a horrible trade for the Yankees. All three of those players’ values are very low right now. Selling low=Bad
mel –
Think of players like houses on the market – the longer they are on the market the further down the asking price goes.
If you close a deal the day you put a player on the market then you weren’t asking enough for the player.
The assumption that Cash isn’t trying to do deals or that our prospects aren’t good enough to close deals is premature imho.
Thanks, Moe. Yours is great.
I’m not even worried about getting a bat for this year. however the FA market is such crap next year that we might need to get one now. I think we have a good shot at the playoffs this year if they step it up. but cashman needs to really make sure he doesnt screw up the next 2-3 years. We should be stacked with all of the extra money coming our way and the advancement of the farm system
Although I must admit, I don’t think they should retire 51. Or 21. Or any numbers from this era except for 2, 6, and 42.
Too many retired numbers already. It should be reserved for immortals. HOFers only.
“That would be a horrible trade for the Yankees. All three of those players’ values are very low right now. Selling low=Bad”
read more clearly, thats what i was saying. I was merely pointing out that people were saying we could trade kennedy for holliday. I have no interest in trading hughes or tabata. that is the complete opposite of what i was saying
How about taking a flier on Matt Morris?
TKinDC,
I know. It’s just funny that people think Cashman spends all his time in the tanning salon.
I trust Cashman and the Yankees to do the right thing.
The team didn’t really deserve any help, but now Matsui’s injury mandates some kind of move. Even I, the eternal optimist, know that we can’t battle the rest of the season with this makeshift offense.
The most respected statistical measure of HOF qualification is this Hall of Fame monitor. (on baseball-reference.com)
It says that roughly with a score of 100, there is a good possibility of being in the HOF and with 130 you are a virtual shoe-in. Bernie has a score of 133.
Another measure is the HOF career standards test. The average HOF has a score of 50. Bernie has 48. Therefore he has a score higher than roughly 49% of the HOF.
Also neither of these account for world series wins, general wins, or playoff performance (bernie has 2nd most playoff hrs, hits, runs, at bats, total bases, walks singles, times on base)
He is first in all time playoff extra base hits and RBIs by a landslide (80, next is 64)
I agree he is close. But a case can be made
“You don’t understand value. The later they do the trade, the LESS they get for him. Once again, if you can lose with him, you can lose without him. Everyone knows the Rockies won’t be able to sign him. Get to next year, and what are they going to get for him? Very little.”
Actually, I _do_ understand value. It’s not like his trade value monotonically decreases as time passes. It’s situationally dependent as well. Maybe the Red Sox decide that Manny’s done this offseason and target Holliday because their tiny LF minimizes his defensive crappiness and can envision him lofting homers over the monster for the next 7 years. Young players that teams are giving a shot for the next three months might not pan out, or guys might go down with significant injuries later in the year. Contracts come off the books, putting teams in different financial positions.
plus he was a solid backbone of the yankees throughout the dynasty. has 5 golden gloves, and a batting title. he was int he top 20 mvp rankings 6 times
“Young players that teams are giving a shot for the next three months might not pan out, or guys might go down with significant injuries later in the year. Contracts come off the books, putting teams in different financial positions.”
That’s a good point, but I’m under the belief that he will be traded to SOME team this year, whether it’s the Yankees or not. Even if it means some team overpaying a little, they will.
retire #51: how do they calculate hall of fame monitor scores?
“That’s a good point, but I’m under the belief that he will be traded to SOME team this year, whether it’s the Yankees or not. Even if it means some team overpaying a little, they will.”
That’s a perfectly reasonable belief, but if it happens it will not because they’ve lowered their demands to the point where Kennedy, Colin Curtis and Eric Duncan get it done.
its a crazy formula, go on baseball reference. there are a few of them.
looks like plenty here have already pointed out that his road splits are not much of an issue in the past couple seasons.
i’ll agree on ripken being a bit over-rated.
and i have to agree with Margot as well.
i think
I would like to see Holliday batting in the 5 hole. If he turns out to be a righty Matsui, then he would be a fantastic hitter. I think he has more power than Matsui though.
I’m assuming the Ichiro talk is sarcastic, but the difference is that he just signed a contract extension last year so the Mariners have (I think) 3 more years with him. He is the most exciting outfielder in the game and would be a good fit.
Raul Ibanez is interesting. I don’t think he fits because he is a lefty, but he does seem to produce consistently. His numbers never seem fantastic, and he doesn’t get a lot of attention but he drives in runs, which is what the Yankees need.
Eric Duncan, yikes, what a giant bust of a 1st round pick that was. He is from New Jersey, though, isn’t that the reason why the Yankees took him?
I think Kennedy and Ohlendorf are running neck and neck for “most likely to be traded before July 31st” right now. The question is, to what team and for who? But to me, if a team is looking for major league-ready arms, those are the guys the Yankees will be quick to offer. I just wonder how much return the team could see on those guys, considering the league is pretty much aware of their potential upside: 4th starter and short reliever, respectively.
“If he turns out to be a righty Matsui, then he would be a fantastic hitter.”
No, he’d be a very good hitter. Someone I’d TOTALLY take as my everyday left fielder if
1) the team didn’t have two LF/DHes under contract for next year
2) I didn’t have to trade Hughes/Jackson plus other pieces for him
3) I wasn’t going to have to sign him until he’s 35 if I want to keep him past next fall.
4) I wasn’t going to have to trade for a RFer this offseason, and maybe think about a CF upgrade as well. And maybe 1B too.
But, given that all of those things are true, he’s gotta be Manny Ramirez if I’m going to acquire him. If some of them weren’t true, I’d be much more willing to think about it.
I don’t really see a problem with having a lefty bat – especially if they need to replace Matsui in the lineup – a lefty for a lefty. I think Ibanez could be had for very little. Throw in Bedard, and now you’ll have to give up a lot.
Or… could you put together a package for Randy Wolf and Brian Giles, and not lose Kennedy? (no way I trade Hughes, and I really would like to give Kennedy more of a chance than April & May; he is just 23.)
mel
July 16th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
raymagnetic,
“LOL. Either Cashman’s not working the phones or no one wants our prospects. Neither is very appealing.”
I personally believe that Cashman is working hard but nobody is all that enthused about our prospects. The ’08 performances of Hughes, Kennedy, Gardner and Ohlendorf in the majors and Tabata, Marquez and Horne in the minors lessens the trade value of each of them right now.
” Just write the check “….WAS A JOKE !!!….man, you people !
You wonder if in the right trade, Abreau wouldn’t be appealing to some team. His home runs, rbi’s, slugging % and batting average in ’08 are almost identical to his numbers with the Phillies in ’06 when he was traded. A change of scenery might be what he needs.
The Yanks would get short money on him because of his salary and contract status, but in the right package he could draw some interest.
“The ‘08 performances of Hughes, Kennedy, Gardner and Ohlendorf in the majors and Tabata, Marquez and Horne in the minors lessens the trade value of each of them right now.”
But the performance of Robertson, McCutchen, Macallister, Jackson, Cox (until recently), Veras, and Miranda has made them look better.
And Gardner’s had no time in the majors to speak of. He’s no more or less valuable now than he was when they called him up from AAA.
Here’s a crazy idea: we’re not going to have a perfect outfield in 2009.
This team is going to continue to be a work in progress. While a few guys come off the books at the end of the year and, hopefully, the movement towards getting younger while remaining productive continues, there’s going to be places where we still transition.
That may or may not include trading for a younger, productive outfielder. That may or may not be Matt Holliday. I don’t know everything there is to know about Matt Holliday, but there is that nagging “Larry Walker and Dante Bichette played in Colorado” thing about him to me.
Someone said thia a couple of hours ago as well, but I really, really like that McClouth kid from Pittsburgh.
I also have to say that, no, we should in no way entertain acquring him, but goddamn did Ichiro look good in RF yesterday.
I want Josh Hamilton!! Trade: Kennedy, Horne, Melky, Sanchez for him…..
Half a minor league season isn’t going to change many opinions about prospects.
Abreu would be a perfect fit for Arizona… they are deep in position prospects, though they wouldn’t give up a lot for a late season rental. But maybe that deal frees up the Yanks to make a stronger bid for Nady/Bay/Holliday or some other RH bat.
I think Ichiro is in the first year of a 5 year, $ 90 million deal and I wouldn’t want to take that on. Besides he’s the last guy Seattle would want to move… Bedard, Beltre, Vidro, Washburn, Batista, Silva… those are the contracts they want to move.
“I want Josh Hamilton!! Trade: Kennedy, Horne, Melky, Sanchez for him…..”
When I was a senior in high school, I sat behind this girl in my French class. Really nice girl, but she weighed about 240 or so. No one dared asked her out. By the end of the year, she lost about 100 pounds (of course, being that was 18, the idea that 17 year-old girls would do that in awful ways did not cross my mind). Guess who asked her out? I did. We dated for a month, until she dumped me because she knew I wouldn’t have dated her if she was fat.
That fat chick is Josh Hamilton. Real friggin easy to say you want him now.
Papelbon was notified that he received his certificate from the John Rocker Academy of Rage.
The official presentation will be made when the Socks return home from a west coast trip to face the Yankees on July 25.
The Yankees are expected to be lined up at the top step on the dugout to doff their caps.
Ryan Spilborghs Ryan Spilborghs Ryan Spilborghs Ryan Spilborghs Ryan Spilborghs he has a little over 1 years service time entering this season so he is still cost controlled for the next 3-4 seasons. He rips left handed pitching! He has no future with the Rockies when Seth Smith and Dexter Fowler are coming up! Please get him Cashman.
He is going to be traded to someone so it might as well be the Yankees.
I would take Ichiro’s $90 mil deal in a heartbeat if I were the Yanks. I’d even volunteer to pick him up at the airport. But I don’t see Seattle ever trading him unless Ichiro demands it…
Trading Abreau is an interesting notion. Really, only a contending team would want him, otherwise why pay the money – so that definitely would make Arizona a possibility. Maybe L.A.? Can’t imagine Philly taking him back. Milwaukee’s probably made their big move. Angels could probably use him, but I have trouble seeing the Yanks trade with a team they could potentially see in Oct. And Yanks don’t trade with the Mets, who could use him also.
But I don’t know if, in effect, replacing Abreau with Bay or Nady is a flip-flop I’d want to make. Nady’s having a good year, but he’s no big deal. Bay is having another solid year, but I consider Abreau a better hitter than both of them. What’s Abreau’s trade-clause situation?
But whatever happens, please, please don’t bring Sexton here!!! Unless he’ll be a pinch-hitter….
“I would take Ichiro’s $90 mil deal in a heartbeat if I were the Yanks. I’d even volunteer to pick him up at the airport. But I don’t see Seattle ever trading him unless Ichiro demands it…”
he’s almost 35 years old. it may make for an attractive-looking band-aid, but it’s still, at best, a band-aid.
Chris go check the numbers Abreu stinks! He has declined since he stepped into the AL. If you can trade him you do it!
“But I don’t know if, in effect, replacing Abreau with Bay or Nady is a flip-flop I’d want to make. Nady’s having a good year, but he’s no big deal. Bay is having another solid year, but I consider Abreau a better hitter than both of them. What’s Abreau’s trade-clause situation?”
I agree that it’s probably a lateral move, at best.
you still have to assume that this season is Bobby Abreu’s last frightful rendezvous with the rightfield wall at any incarnation of Yankee Stadium.
Abreu had a full no-trade clause… don’t know if Yanks were able to alter that when they picked up his option.
I think swapping Abreu for Nady makes the Yankees better, younger and cheaper… that’s a pretty good trifecta. Key would be what prospects you could get for him and what Nady’s price tag is, but it addresses needs for both ’08 and ’09.
Dan I — Spilborghs is a good idea. Certainly shouldn’t have too high of a price tag and he’s a good fit.
Ryan Spillborghs would be a nice addition[injured now?] And Dan why do you think they are trading him, since they’ll need a replacement for Holliday.
However I’ve heard Garrett Atkins and Matt Holiday might be hard to sign by the Rockies, and therefore trade bait.
Any interest in Atkins a 3B moving to 1st?
No to renewing a contract for Abreu. Not even sure he’ll be a Type A FA. He would statistically have to be among the top 20% RF’ers over years 2007 & 2008.
Holliday is a 28 year old professional hitter who would adjust fine away from Coors.
Whether he is the answer or not, I can not agree that we have position players in our farm system ready to produce at the level needed to compete for championships. Jackson is still a couple years away and by that time most of the present core will be 36 – 40 (Jeter, Posada, Damon, Matsui).
Melky and Gardner are 4th OFers at best and neither has enough power to play the corners. If you want to play the statistics game that Pete is playing above – it is more telling that in Melky’s last 400+ at bats is average is right around .240. He has a plus arm, but just average range for a CFer and a below average bat.
We have no choice but to trade some of the young pitching prospects to get the bats needed to compete.
Matt G-
Agree we need another bat-righty in outfield.
Here are possibilities of righty hitting OF’ers currently on teams that might be sellers:
Baltimore-Jay Payton- Big no!
Cleveland-Ben Francisco-probably untouchable!
Royals-Jose Guillen?fit for Yankees+ assume large contract
Mariners- no decent righties
Blue Jays-would probably love to dump Wells’ contract, and don’t think Alex Rios available.
Reds-no righties
Rockies-Matt Holliday-we’ve been over him
Astros-Hunter Pence, Carlos Lee? doubt available
Pirates-Nady and Jason Bay- what prospects will it take to trade with the traditionally tough to trade with GM?
Padres-Scott Hairston
Who do you want, and what are you willing to give up in minor league prospects for a right handed outfield bat, that might be available?
The Rockies have both Seth Smith and Dexter Fowler coming up soon or now. They don’t need Spilborghs! He is who the Yankees should target.
“Ryan Spillborghs would be a nice addition[injured now?] And Dan why do you think they are trading him, since they’ll need a replacement for Holliday.”
I’ve never heard of this kid, but I say you’re talking something much closer to what this team is likely to do (and should do) than writing about Matt Holliday.
Um, if you have a real shot at getting Matt Holliday, you get him. I’ve been reaping the benefits of that monster in my keeper league for that past 3 years. Holliday can hit anyone, anywhere. If Jeter fawns over Holliday, then that’s good enough for me.
Go look at the numbers for Spilborghs who right now is out with an oblique. He is a right handed batter who hits left handed pitching very well. Also his home/away splits are fine. He has a solid Obp.
Now go look at what Seth Smith is doing in AAA and Dexter Fowler is doing in AA and you will see that along with a signed Brad Hawpe that Spilborghs should be available and would be a great pick up for the Yankees.
Holliday is not the answer but Spilborghs could help!
Jorge-
Ryan Spilborghs-on DL with oblique muscle injury
28 yo , plays CF, average .302 over 3 years, good OBP and some power, would replace Melky, but doubt Rockies would trade his $396,000 salary.
Martin
Jeter fawns over Holliday?? Hope Jeter asked Holliday for some tips, on how to get his BA above .300 again?
Couldn’t believe Mo was giving tips to Halladay, Soria and Kazmir on how to hold the ball to pitch his out pitch!!
Guess it’s nice to be The Godfather.
even though he’sa lefty, Barry Bonds as DH would help solve the issue of hitting against lefties. his splits for the last 2 seasons:
2006, vs lefties: .255, .451, .519
2007, vs lefties: .265, .470, .521
if the Yanks need to replace Matsui this year, as seems likely, Barry seems the best option in terms of upside and of not costing any prospects.
Bonds does have a certain perceived stigma; but to me it’s irrational, because tons of other players who took steroids still play, why does Bonds alone have to be exiled into the baseball wilderness?
Yankee Trader the reason why the Rockies will trade Spilborghs is because they don’t need him going forward as a 4th outfielder. Seth Smith will replace Holliday in Lf and Dexter Fowler will replace Willy Taveras in Cf with Brad Hawpe in Rf. Willy Taveras is a much better 4th outfielder fit then Spilborghs.
Instead of quoting splits that have been rehashed for the past week on WFAN, let’s use our noodle and try to project the success a hitter like Holliday would have in ballparks like Fenway (which he abused last year in interleague play), the Rogers Centre, Tropicana, and that bandbox in Baltimore. I would think that’s better than hitting in places like the big parks out west. And if Arod does fine in the Bronx, I wouldn’t be worried about Holliday.
Don’t many think the effort to suppress the offense in Coors has worked to some degree anyway?
Dan 1
I’m all for Spilborghs. Who , from the Yankees will Colorado want?
Big No to Bonds-would be very unhappy for him to don the pinstripes.
Martin-
Colorado pithing ERA is third worst in baseball behind Pittsburgh and Texas, so I don’t know if the humidors are making a difference, as the only starter with an ERA under 4.00 is Aaron Cook, whose stuff I was not that impressed with last night, even though he kept his cool after Uggla lost his.
Abreu, mccutchen, horne for colby rasmus.
Abreu, Mccutchen, horne for schafer. Atlanta has so many OF prospects, and with schafers suspension they’re a bit down on him under heyward and others. MAybe we could pull this off
Matt Holliday has been extrmeley underrated for the past 3 years. It wasn’t until last year that most people even knew who he was. I brought up getting him to Mike and the Mad Dog over a year ago or so, and they tried to play how he doesnt hit on the road. I told Russo to look up the stats and compare the HR totals. I said they werent too far off from each other. Needless to say, he look over the stats and concluded it wasn’t just the luck of Colorado.
Hes a young player with pop. Better than Matsui and the other optionswe have had in the outfield. He has Boras as an agent though and will want the big bucks.
I think the real question about Matt Holliday is whether he is a good enough hitter for the Yankees to abandon their new philosophy of obtaining multidimensional players, as he is an average (at best) defender in LF.
“Martin-
Colorado pithing ERA is third worst in baseball behind Pittsburgh and Texas, so I don’t know if the humidors are making a difference, as the only starter with an ERA under 4.00 is Aaron Cook, whose stuff I was not that impressed with last night, even though he kept his cool after Uggla lost his.
”
Thank you for looking up some numbers Yankee Trader. I was too lazy! But, the problem with that is Jimenez (as good as his stuff is) may be the most inconsistent starter in baseball. And Jeff Francis couldn’t go 6 innings against a softball team this year. So the poor stats may be a function of horrible pitching (save, ofcourse, Aaron Cook) rather than Coors. You agree?
Martin
Looked up Matt Holliday’s situational stats for this year, and am pretty impressed, basically hits > .300 with RISP,bases empty, bases loaded. His stats for 2008 are much better than I was lead to believe. Who does he compare with defensively, as he has 4 assists and only 1 error so far? Can he play right, like last night and replace Abreu?
Yankee Trader I am not sure who the Rockies would want. I would think a good young reliever who is cost controlled like Veras would interest them? Maybe a couple of minor leaguer like JB Cox along with Chris Malec? The point is to make a good deal for both teams.
Ok Martin you’ve convinced me. The only pitcher with
Yankee Trader,
The baseball package is the best. I’ve watched him the past few years. He. Can. Hit. And he’ll steal a base too. He’s not going to set the world on fire with his glove. And I’ll be honest, I would be a little worried about him in the Bronx with the ally in left-center. But Gardner’s range in CF should help, like Tavaras.
One thing is undeniable though: he’s one of the 5-or-so hitters in baseball who can impact an entire lineup.
Check out this article about his work-ethic, and let me know what you think:
http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_9893992
Get Pavano Jr. and IPK out of here if it can get us Fuentes and Holliday.
Martin- got cut off my bad. I’ll make this deal
Want Holliday, righty Taylor Buchholz and Fuentes. Taking on Holliday’s 9.5M contract and Boras and Fuentes 5M contract as he is FA.
You’re taking back Hawkin’s-we’ll pay most remaining money for a player to be named later!
We’ll want you to take FA Farnsworth and his 5M contract back.
You can pick 2 pitchers from our AAA team of the following: Ian Kennedy, Daniel McCutcheon,Chris Britton, Russ Ohlendorf,Jeffrey Marquez.
You can have 2 of following players from AA: Kevin Russo[2B],Marcos Vechionacci[3B],Edwar Gonzalez [OF], or Chase Wright[P].
DEAL OR NO DEAL?????
Yankee trader- That is asking too much from Colorado they can take Hawkins but asking them to take Farsny is a bit much. How good is Buchholz?
Yankee Trader that is a silly offer and would never be accepted!
Martin and Dan1- Very good article in Denver Post.
Since we can unload about 90M in salaries this year if we do not resign Abreu, Giambi, Pavano, Pettitte, Mussina, Hawkins, Farnsworth, I’d rather deal with Boras for an extension for Holliday, than Boras for FA Teixeira a 1B, who has played below his usual numbers, especially against lefties.
I wonder if SF would give us Jonathan Sanchez for IPK and a few mid-level guys? I would be willing to do McCutchen and IPK for this guy hes that good.
Yankee Trader – Ofcourse I would do that deal if I’m Cashman, but Dan O’Dowd would laugh out loud at that. They’re not giving up Buckholz AND Fuentes. But how about this:
Give: Kennedy, Jackson, Betances, 4th player
Get: Holliday, Fuentes
I do that. There are two functions for a farm team. Plug holes at the big league level and trade chips. I’m worried Cashman is now too enamored with the former.
If C.C. went elsewhere would anyone give Ben Sheets 3 years 50 milion?
Dan- Ok
Come back with Cano, Ian Kennedy, Farnsworth, Hawkins, Britton and Jeffrey Marquez for Holliday, Fuentes and Buchholz, whose numbers you should look up.
Then we need to sign/trade Orlando Hudson FA .
Want to keep Cano, so who do I need to substitute? Hughes?
I’m just throwing out names. What will it take for us to get those players, then I’ll decide if the deal is worth it or look elsewhere to strengthen the Yankees.
Martin- Bad idea too much for Holliday/Fuentes. Austin Jackson/Betances cant be in the same deal they are high ceiling guys. Plus we would essentially be renting Fuentes because he wants to close. I give maybe one of those guys not both.
Yankee Trader I would rather have Spilborghs over Holliday. Spilborghs would still be a trade able asset where as once you pay big bucks for Holliday he is yours until the end of his contract like Giambi.
Spilborghs would still allow you to take on a big contract going forward where as with Holliday he is the big contract with again no flexibility.
Yankee trader- Cano is rounding back into shape even though I wanted him gone a month ago trading him now would be selling low.
Martin-
In addition to Holliday and Fuentes and their combined 14.5M in salary, I want a good prospect from the Rockies to give up a player like Jackson.
Al from BK- If 30 yo Ben Sheets, whose finally been healthy, will take a 3 year contract, yes I’d want him, because 5-6 years is too much of a gamble.
Spilborghs is several years from arbitration why would they trade a young OF.
Al,
You have to give a lot to get a lot. And Holliday and Fuentes are ALOT. Jackson and Betances are high cieling guys indeed with a lot of ‘potential.’ And potential is dangerous to depend on. Betances could easily end up being Daniel Cabrera rather than Josh Beckett.
Besides, if you loose Fuentes at the end of the year, you’ll get a 1st and sandwich for compensation. The Yankees could easily turn Brian Fuentes departure into two “high-ceiling” players with signability issues. And there are ALWAYS signability issues.
What do you think?
Dan
Spilborghs I’d be delighted to have. What will it take to take over his $300,000+ contract?
Yankee trader- Are you familiar with Jon Sanchez in SF I am obsessed with this guy he is like Oliver Perez with better stuff and slightly better control. I would put a package together for him a mid 20′s lefty who hits the mid 90′s.
Martin- When you put it that way it makes sense. However I cant put them both in the same deal and I really like Ajax. Betances/Tabata perhaps but not Austin Jackson. It is not even a question Fuentes would never re-up with the Yanks he still thinks he should close and beings stuck behind Mo the great is not his ideal situation and Holliday can leave after 2010 so I question putting 3 high end prospects in that deal.
Remember you need to be in top 20% of your position reliever/?closer to be classified Type A and get 2 picks.
Plus to get those picks you need to offer arbitration, which he’d probably turn down to sign a multiyear closer deal elsewhere, or the FA has to sign with another team before the deadline to offer arbitration, 12/02/08!
I am tiring of Phil Hughes situation I wonder what the Yanks can get for IPK and Hughes together?
Yankee Trader,
You’re right. But it’s safe to say Fuentes will be tagged a Type A by Elias’ standards. And, obviously Cashman would offer him arbitration, as he did with Arod. Fuentes would never take the arb offer for the reasons you mention, and if he did then you’re getting a back-up closer/set-up man/lefty specialist on a one year deal which is heaven. Hence, the two picks!
Al from BK
Sanchez, Cain and Lincecum are on their GM’s untouchable list.
Remember the rumor last year Matsui for lefty, Noah Lowry and maybe Kevin Correia. Lowry on DL, Correia terrible.
By the way Oliver Perez is one of 3 under 30yo FA pitchers
The other two are CC Sabathia and Mark Prior!
Al,
Yes, Sanchez would be a nice pick-up. He hits mid-90s?? I thought 90-92. And like Billy Beane says, if you don’t hurt a little bit after a trade, then it ain’t fair. Ajax and Dellin would hurt, but Holliday and Fuentes would massage that soreness away real quick.
Yankee Trader here is what I would love to do.
First trade for Spilborghs as he can play any outfield position. Good right handed bat that has some power with great on base skills.
Second I would trade anyone other then Hughes, Melancon and Jackson for Mat Gamel of the Brewers who I believe will become a star soon.
Sanchez would be untouchable even for Hughes and IPK? Oliver Perez is too Jekyll and Hyde to get a big contract IMO. I give the big baffos to CC he has the hardware and has pitched in the AL.
It’s been nice chatting with you all. Time for dinner.
Hope Cashman is both a seller and buyer before the deadline, to get young talent to replace players we want to get rid of, and to trade FA’s who we have no desire to resign, or offer arbitration.
If I am the Yankees this offseason I am clutching the purse and giving CC big money he is the only FA that I am confident in Ollie=unpredictable, Sheets= career DL habit. CC gets the big check if Im Cashman.
Martin the two picks you would get for Fuentes have very little value to the Yankees.
The Yankees need major league ready position players not picks that need 2-5 years development time as not everyone is JOBA!
Yankee trader- Enjoy dinner.
“Martin the two picks you would get for Fuentes have very little value to the Yankees.
The Yankees need major league ready position players not picks that need 2-5 years development time as not everyone is JOBA!”
You sure about that? Cashman and Oppenheimer have been fawning over the early picks they’ve got the past few years including Brackman and Cole. The Yankees need a steady, balanced pipe-line. And that includes players at Charleston and Tampa who are 4 years away.
After the worldwide exposure that Josh Hamilton got in recent days, his stock jumped tremendously to the point that Texas would want nothing less than grade A prospects + for the 5-tool player they have under their control for the next 3 years.
Risk is involved with any player as proven many times and although Hamilton’s risk factor many seem higher because of his past issues, there may not be a single GM in the game that would turn down the chance to get a player with his enormous talent if the asking price were near reasonable.
“not everyone is JOBA!”
Very true the Yankees are not the Pirates we need some players who are ready to impact the big club. Joba was a special case he is a once every 5-10 years prospect and the Yanks got lucky. IMO this season is unfortunately that dreaded “transition” year that we have all feared but at some point it must happen. Come the off season there will be a new stadium and lots of money coming off the books I think we all can see that this year is different and the Wang injury has sort of punctuated that idea.
The funny part is Holiday hitting away from Coors is still better than Melky and Gardner
Obviously the plan the Yankees have doesn’t revolve strictly on a continuous flow of farm products.
The “plan” allows for smart trading and filling the rest with free agents that fill immediate needs.
If they have a surplus of any kind in the system, everybody knows that right now it’s pitching with position players behind in the chain of progress.
It remains to be seen what straying away from plan Cashman does in using farm products to fill needs of this year by the end of July.
The Yanks do have a surplus of arms but they must be smart in trades I think Holliday and Fuentes would help alot but unfortunately this team needs a starter way more than a reliever. Like it or not Veras,Farnsy,Robertson and Edwar have done a good job. Does anyone trust Jabba the hut and razzy to be reliable 4-5 for the rest of the year.
Splits can be deceiving, because most players hit worse on the road than at home.
Alex Rodriguez on the road: .270/.364/.461
Matt Holliday on the road: .277/.341/.449
They are almost identical.
Martin yes the two picks for the Yankees going into next season have very little value!
C old
1st old
2nd young not doing well
SS old
3rd 33 so old but has huge value going for the all time hr title.
Lf old
Cf terrible but young
Rf old and really stinks
Dh old
Two draft picks do not do anything to change that do they?
Correction: those were ARod’s season away splits, compared to Holliday’s career splits.
Holliday’s season away splits: .301/.400/.459
In reality, they are much better than ARod’s road numbers. I wouldn’t get too hung up on splits, they can easily be misinterpreted.
Dan- So the Yanks are going to wait 5 years for a young guy to develop and basically take off until Jeter retires. 2 draft picks next has no effect on the big club.
Al not sure what your are asking me?
I have said to trade for Spilborghs as he can play and should be available.
I want Gamel more then anything as he is the perfect Yankee Stadium lefty bat.
I want Miranda called up to see what he can do before the end of the season.
I want this team to get younger regardless of who goes.
Also I would love Andy LaRoche of the Dodgers as well.
Dan- Why would the Rockies trade a younger bat and not Holliday? Miranda is not ready. I was saying that trading for Fuentes and just getting back picks when he leaves is not a big pay off.
“Correction: those were ARod’s season away splits, compared to Holliday’s career splits.”
Why would you not avail yourself of the larger sample size provided by career splits? ARod’s .989 vs. .946 home and road. Holliday 1.086 vs .790
Holliday is a very good hitter at a position that we have two players under contract for next year. Given that he will cost — both in prospects and contract duration/dollars — as though he were a great hitter, trading for him would be stupid.
“Miranda is not ready.”
He sucks against lefties, but crushes righties. Why is he “not ready”? He’s annihilating right handed pitching, showing excellent plate discipline and hitting for power.
“I want Gamel more then anything as he is the perfect Yankee Stadium lefty bat. ”
Get Colby Rasmus while you’re at it! Other teams exist to be the Yankee farm system, right?
I think the Yanks need to let this year just happen then go big spending in the offseason.
Al,
Spilborghs in not really a younger bat then Holliday as he is 4 months older.
Spilborghs does not have a future with the Rockies as they have a younger Seth Smith and Dexter Fowler coming soon or now.
I think Holliday will be traded but he is a poor fit for the Yankees while Spilborghs is a terrific fit as he has only a little over 1 year service time before this season. In 3 years Spilborghs will still be trade able where as Holliday will not.
I disagree with you about Miranda as I think he is ready or at the very least they need to see what he can do in a platoon situation.
I agree on Fuentes if traded for and then h3 leaves the picks do not help the Yankees for years so doing that is not good going forward into 09 and beyond.
Whozat- The Yanks already have a whole bunch of lefties who get owned by leftie pitchers I dont think they need anymore.
“I think the Yanks need to let this year just happen then go big spending in the offseason.”
Or, they could try to develop a sustainable model of success by spending their money wisely. DON’T give Teixeira a 7 year deal, he won’t be worth it. Give Sabathia the cash, but don’t go for 7 years. Avoid 6 if at ALL possible. Use anyone but Hughes, Jackson, Montero and Melancon to get a solid, youngish RFer. Look for a league-average CFer to provide insurance for Melky. Find a league-average righty 1B for god’s sake! Consider re-signing Giambi to a 1-year deal, unless Miranda can handle part-time duty at first. Re-sign Moose or Andy.
whozat,
I never said Gamel would be an easy get? I said I believe he will be a huge star and has the perfect swing for Yankee Stadium. I would try and make a deal for him even if I have to over pay! Sometimes you need to risk and Gamel is someone you should risk for.
I stand corrected on the whole younger part but he does have less service time are those other prospects breaking down the doors? Why would they feel compelled to trade him? I think the Yankees need to start developing RH bats because who says Miranda wont just be another Wilson Betemit who can rake left handed but gets dominated by good lefties?
“Whozat- The Yanks already have a whole bunch of lefties who get owned by leftie pitchers I dont think they need anymore.”
They don’t face only lefty pitchers. Miranda could certainly help cushion the loss of Matsui against right-handed pitching. They should what, keep Justin Christian instead? The perfect is the enemy of the good. Don’t eschew low-cost options that could help just because they’re not perfect.
Whozat- That is a great plan. I hope teams are willing to trade for a good OF or a solid 1B it seems more and more like you must either develop on your own or pay big bucks and the Yanks have no good OF/1B coming up until Ajax or motero so its going to be tough.
*Montero.
“I said I believe he will be a huge star and has the perfect swing for Yankee Stadium. I would try and make a deal for him even if I have to over pay! Sometimes you need to risk and Gamel is someone you should risk for.”
Do you have any concept of how much you’d need to overpay to get the Brewers to contemplate that? Having traded LaPorta, Gamel is basically THE guy who makes it so they probably don’t have to sign Fielder long-term. That is TREMENDOUSLY valuable to their organization. If you sent them Joba AND Montero…they’d probably do that.
Al do you read my posts?
Go look at Seth Smiths stats in AAA and Dexter Fowler in AA! Brad Hawpe i under contract with an option in 2011 and Willy Taveras makes a better 4th outfielder so the Rockies can easily trade both Holliday and Spilborghs.
“I hope teams are willing to trade for a good OF or a solid 1B it seems more and more like you must either develop on your own or pay big bucks”
Even paying big bucks doesn’t get you what you need. There isn’t a good RFer available via free agency next year, not even one that you could sign to an unwise contract in order to get a good year or two out of him.
Juan Rivera is a name that might be available. I’d look at Nelson Cruz over in AAA for the Rangers right now. He’s been bad in the bigs so far, but looks to be back on track in the minors. One would think he’d be cheap. I’d try to make that deal right now.
I apologize Dan I had not read your posts I get the picture what deal would be needed for spilborghs.
whozat you are being foolish if you think you would need to trade both Joba and Montero to get Gamel. The Brewer will ask the world for him and I am sure the Yankees can make a good deal with Kennedy plus JB Cox and others going back. It will hurt but it can be done.
So the concensus is that Tex is not worth it and we must make a trade instead.
I think Gamel is good but not great I am not giving a kings ransom for a scrappy AAA guy.
“The Brewer will ask the world for him and I am sure the Yankees can make a good deal with Kennedy plus JB Cox and others going back. It will hurt but it can be done.”
Are you kidding? That deal wouldn’t hurt AT ALL. Unless those “others” are Montero and Jackson.
You’re missing my point. Why would the Brewers do that deal? They don’t need a Kennedy or a Cox. They need Gamel. In order to get him, we need to give them something they need AND provide some cushion for the loss of Gamel. Do they need a near-MLB 4th starter? Not really. Do they need a middle reliever? Not really. What incentive would they have to trade Gamel for Kennedy, Cox and parts? They’d want Montero because he provides them depth at 1B to replace Gamel. But they wouldn’t trade Gamel to get him. There’d need to be something they want RIGHT NOW in order for them to consider that deal.
“I think Gamel is good but not great I am not giving a kings ransom for a scrappy AAA guy.”
How is Gamel some scrappy AAA guy? He’s in AA DESTROYING the pitching there.
“They’d want Montero because he provides them depth at 1B to replace Gamel. But they wouldn’t trade Gamel to get him. There’d need to be something they want RIGHT NOW in order for them to consider that deal.”
This was confusing. I’m saying that, to get Gamel, you have to offer them something they want right now PLUS Montero to offset the loss of depth at a corner IF position. They wouldn’t trade Gamel for Montero straight up because the latter is a lot further from the bigs.
Al in two years you might reconsider the statement about Gamel. He has future superstar written all over him. Home run power plus doubles power and I think he is leading all the minors in total bases so far this season.
I truly believe he is someone you risk a lot for and hope it works out. Nothing is a guarantee though.
“I truly believe he is someone you risk a lot for and hope it works out. Nothing is a guarantee though.”
And if we’d had CC Sabathia to trade, we could have gotten him.
Look, if Cano was hitting well, and they needed a 2B, we could trade Cano for Gamel and another piece or two. Those are the kinds of deals that teams give up blue-chippers in. They very rarely swap blue chip prospects for each other, and they certainly don’t swap quality prospects for a quantity of prospects.
whozat, I am not going to argue with you over what the Brewers may or may not trade for Gamel. I said make a deal a good deal so whatever that is it is! I believe he is a star in the making and is worth the risk for the Yankees to acquire.
“I said make a deal a good deal so whatever that is it is! ”
And I’m telling you that there is no good deal to be made. How do you get someone to sell you something he has no desire to sell? Drastically overpay. And that is, by definition, a bad deal. Put yourself in the Brewers’ shoes. If you had Gamel, what would convice you to give him up? Remember, this is the guy who’s going to save you 10 million dollars in a year or two and allow you to trade a 50-HR 1B (who is, admittedly, fat) — netting you MORE prospects.
whozat i give up and i am leaving this chat so have a good night! you make this boring as heck so have fun with the rest.
SJ44 ???????
All-
Mat Gamel is playing 3rd base for AA Huntsville Stars.
Current 3rd baseman for the Brewers are Bill Hall, Craig Counsell, Joe Dillon and retread Russell Branyon. Bill Hall is barely hitting his weight and was moved to 3rd to let error prone slugger, Ryan Braun move to LF
Point is he’s in AA. Are they bringing him up to AAA soon and are they projecting him now as a 1B? He barely 23 yo. Are you thinking that he takes Giambis position at 1st, or is turned into an outfielder.
Why would they give up on Gamel anyway?
Why on earth would the Brewers trade Gamel when they just let LaPorta go?
And what organization has a blue-chipper down on the farm at each postion? The philosophy now seems to be to focus on developing top pitching and let the position prospects fall where they may. And I like that philosophy. The Yankees will always have the financial wherewithal to plug in first-rate position players when they need to do so.
Yankees need a lot of parts.
Most would agree a lefty pitcher would be nice.
Dodgers need some bats to make a run in the weakest division.
They have a young lefty, from Taiwan, in Hong-Chi Kuo who has been lights out. Even though Saito out for 4-6 weeks they still have Broxton as their closer.
Is there any deal to be made there?
Martin
I agree with you, but wouldn’t it be nice to have the next Evan Longoria, Ryan Braun, Josh Hamilton, Jacoby Ellsbury coming up in your system, to replace the likes of fading stars like FA’s Abreu, Giambi,etc.
Remember the 2009 FA class is very weak in position FA’s, and our minor league position players will not be ready for 1-2 years, therefore we need to trade arms for ready to play position holes we’ll have this fall.
Whozat–
I wasn’t recommending that we should or shouldn’t trade for Holliday. Only that splits, like alot of statistics, can be misleading.
My own opinion is that this just isn’t that great of a team, and that trading for one or two players isn’t going change anything. I’d rather continue to build up our farm system until we have the kind of resources that can trade young pitchers for young position players — much like what Tampa/Minne did by trading Garza for Young.
It’s the same reason I was against trading for Santana, he simply would not have put us over the hump to be a contender again and meanwhile we burned resources.
Only a few of the current Yankees will be around for our next championship. Joba, ARod, Hughes, maybe Jeter, maybe Wang, maybe Cano if he gets his act together, again. But, the next championship is in our farm team and other farm teams.
So far this year, Gamel has 15 errors in 64 games. In 2007, he made 53 errors in 128 games. He’s hitting a ton, though… and Spillborgh has played 237 games in the bigs. I guess we’re talking bout 2009 now, not ’08?
“I think swapping Abreu for Nady makes the Yankees better, younger and cheaper… that’s a pretty good trifecta.”
Good point, although do you really want Nady as your right-fielder? Plus, you’re not trading Abreau to Pittsburgh – they wouldn’t want him, so that’s multiple trades. So that’s one trade to get rid of him – maybe to Arizona/L.A – and you won’t get much. Then another with Pittsburgh. How many prospects are you willing to give up to get Xaiver Nady?
And the Ichiro argument is moot – Seattle’s not trading him – but he is no band-aid. I don’t see him slowing down – he’s on his way to another 200-hit season this year, and he batted .350 last year.
the away parks holliday’s road ops is deceiving because the road parks in which he most frequently plays are some of the worst hitters’ parks in the majors – la, sf and sd. relying on numbers without conducting additional analysis is a bad idea.
The Yankees don’t need a young corner outfielder, such as Matt Holliday, when they have Jose Tabata in their farm system.
G. Love, great post. People who say we need Melky’s defense more than we need 20 more hits in a season, get real. There are plenty of outfielders who are just as good as Melky defensively AND can hit! Melky is a .270 (.240 currently) slap hitter without power and without much stolen base speed. He plays a pretty good centerfield. Replacing that is easy. I say yes to Holliday if it’s a possibility. This team needs right-handed power, needs hitters. No one is getting it done in the clutch on this team. No one’s getting on base. How many games have you looked up in the 5th inning to see the Yanks getting two-or-three hit? Way, way, way too many. And if we’re going to make a run at the playoffs with Rasner and Ponson in the rotation, it’s going to have to be done with offense.
Rick: what “resources” exactly would have been burned by making the Santana deal? Hughes, Kennedy, Melky???? Yeah, we’ve all seen what great resources they are this year. Kennedy’s struggling to get outs in the minors. Hughes is looking a LOT more like Carl Pavano than Johann Santana, and Melky is, well, Melky. A 4th outfielder. How would our rotation look with Santana-Pettitte-Moose-Joba (even with Wang hurt), and say Tori Hunter in center for a couple of years until Jackson’s ready? Counting on prospects, as Cashman has done, and yanksrule wants to do with Tabata, is a very iffy proposition, as we have seen. The Yanks are a win now team, and always should be with their resources. This team is where it is today because of the horrible moves Cashman has made, like Pavano and Igawa, sucking up huge $$, so now they have to pass on deals like Santana to cover for those mistakes. If you can get a young, right-handed power-hitting outfielder like Holliday for prospects, you do it if you’re the Yanks.
I don’t see it anywhere here (I only scanned the thread)…but Richie Sexton is a Yankee, according to rotoworld.com.
And for the record, you’d be insane not to trade for Matt Holliday.
hey i love haliday