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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Breaking down the trade deadline

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 21, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The trade deadline is a mere 11 days away, counting today, and speculation will reach great heights before it’s over. With the increase in on-line coverage, you’ll see more information than ever before.

A few things to keep in mind:

* Many writers just throw stuff out there with the hope that something sticks and they can claim they had it first. I’d wager than half of what you read, mainstream and otherwise, is either nonsense or old news. Some blog a few days ago totally made up a story about the Yankees and Barry Bonds.

* That Brian Cashman is “talking to” somebody means zippo. He’s a GM, that’s what they do. Cashman will try and get in the mix of every deal involving an American League team, if only to see whether he can drive the price up or get the deal at a discount.

* That “Yankee scouts” attended some game means next to nothing, too. That’s what scouts do, they attend games. The Yankees have scouts assigned to MLB games, every minor league and others who do special assignments. There’s also a magical box called TV that allows you to see games.

Somebody last year wrote, “Yankee scouts are impressed with Scott Kazmir.” No kidding.

* The players who can improve the Yankees the most over the remaining 64 games are Alex Rodriguez, Robinson Cano, Bobby Abreu, Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada. For various reasons, including injury, these players have not been as productive as hoped to date. Much like last year, the Yankees will wait for them to rise.

(Note: Before the A-Rod Apologist Army jumps ugly on me, Alex has played just fine outside of his RISP numbers. I mention him because was on the DL in the first half and obviously that didn’t help the team score runs.)

* Try and think a little. Cashman did not package his best prospects for Johan Santana or CC Sabathia. What makes you think he’ll suddenly shift his thinking now? The Yankees could well make a move to improve their roster, but Cashman isn’t likely to make some stunning trade.

* Searching minor-league rosters for players is fruitless. The numbers really don’t translate and are skewed by so many factors including the level of competition and ballparks. Just because somebody is crushing the ball in the PCL means almost nothing. There are actual prospects and there are dozens of AAAA-type players.

* Be careful not to overvalue the Yankees just because you like them. Melky Cabrera doesn’t have much trade value. He’s a .250 hitter with a good arm. Brett Gardner doesn’t profile well. Jose Tabata is hurt and could be an attitude case. The Yankees have some pitchers with value but I don’t see Cashman giving them up.

* Four mediocre players does not make for one good one in trade talks. A team that is a seller doesn’t need assorted scrubs. That’s what made them sellers in the first place.

* Just because a player is available doesn’t mean he’s the answer. People are discussing Xavier Nady like he’s Roberto Clemente. Brian Fuentes once lost his job to Manny Corpas. These guys could be helpful players, maybe.

* Get used to the idea that while the Yankees want to make the playoffs, this is very much a transition year. They are getting players experience, carving a lot of money off the payroll and breaking in a new manager and coaching staff. Do you realize that Joe Girardi and his staff had a total of 13 years of major league experience coming into this season?

The Yankees are trying to build a team that will contend for years to come, not do whatever it takes for 2008. If that was the case, Santana would be in the rotation instead of Sidney Ponson.

* The trade deadline has become an event unto itself, much like the World Series or All-Star Game. All that’s missing is a logo and they’re probably working on one on Park Ave. It’s fun to speculate, but don’t believe everything you read. We’ll try and keep you informed here as best we can.

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349 Responses to “Breaking down the trade deadline”

  1. Yankees Chick July 21st, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    Thank you for the honest wake-up call. You make some great points, particularly about fans that overvalue the Yanks players. There is a reason the Twins turned down a Melky/Hughes offer during the off-season…

  2. Bob(The Original) July 21st, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    So what are you saying Pete?

    No Kennedy, Melky, Hawkins, and Shelley Duncan for Fuentes and Holliday?

  3. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 21st, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    Exactly Peter.

    Everything you write makes sense.

    Most of all: 2008 is a TRANSITION YEAR!!!!!

    Spoiled Yankees fans seem to think that making the playoffs every year is mandatory. I hate losing in the first round more than I hate not making the playoffs. This is especially the case when the Yankees have traded young talent for rental players.

  4. raymagnetic ®™ July 21st, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    So are you saying that the Yankees can’t trade Dinky Swingsalot and get back Heater Missings?

  5. Chet July 21st, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    Pete-
    Very good points.
    Don’t see much what this team can do. The current team is underperforming based on what’s on the back of their baseball cards. Bullpen looks decent and looks ready for the dogdays. Jorge is probably splitting time catching and DH’ing with Molina getting more time behind the plate. I think starters are what they are and the additions are going to be two fresh arms in Sept (Hughes and Wang) – hopefully.

    Ton of cash coming off the payroll and 08 is the sacrificial year. Problem is that of this team hit just a tad more we could be tied for first.

  6. raymagnetic ®™ July 21st, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    “There is a reason the Twins turned down a Melky/Hughes offer during the off-season…”

    The Yankees actually pulled the offer off the table once Minnesota shopped the deal to Boston.

  7. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 21st, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Chet,

    In reference to your final sentence, isn’t that reason enough to just see what we can do w/o making some gigantic, costly trade?

  8. Peter Rabbit July 21st, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Pete Abraham’s guide to the trade deadline! These points should be read at every blog and sports talk radio show!

  9. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 21st, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    raymagnetic,

    And I am very pleased they did so.

  10. al arodien July 21st, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    how about keep winning!
    a-ro ,cano, and jeter will have a strong 2nd half.
    possada not so sure!

  11. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    You make some great points, particularly about fans that overvalue the Yanks players. There is a reason the Twins turned down a Melky/Hughes offer during the off-season…

    Did the Twins turn us down I always thought it was the other way around :?

  12. CUYanks July 21st, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    I don’t know how much you guys believe in this, but last night was a HUGE day for the Yankees in terms of baseball prospectus projections. Their postseason odds shot up almost 5% from 12.53% to 17.24%.
    PECOTA playoff odds went from 16.14% to 21.56% and
    ELO projections went from 21.8% to 28.1%.

    Those are huge jumps for one day, especially this far from the end of the season.

    http://www.baseballprospectus......s_odds.php

  13. S.A.- I believe in this team but can the offense stop being so offensive? July 21st, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Nice points Pete!

    Hopefully this team will turn it up a notch and continue winning.

  14. Jen g July 21st, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Thanks Pete! These are all really good points. Thanks for keeping us so well informed! Keep up the great work!

  15. Bob(The Original) July 21st, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    In reference to your final sentence, isn’t that reason enough to just see what we can do w/o making some gigantic, costly trade?

    What really is there to do though?

    We need at least one starter. Do you really see anyone available out there who is worth going after other than retreads?

    Offensively, Pete is right. The Yanks answer to that problem is already on the field every night. If these guys perform to even close what they should be, that’s better than any trade they can make.

    Let it ride out with what we got and see what happens.

    Then start doing the heavy lifting in the off season where there is roster flexiblity.

  16. 86w183 July 21st, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    This has been an interesting, though maddening season, but Peter makes superb points about it being a transition year. The Yanks will continue to monitor possible acquisitions that can help the team at a reasonable price. That’s good management, even though some want to string Cashman up.

    I still suspect there’s going to be a significant deal before all is said and done…. until then just hope Jeter, Abreu, A-Rod, Jorge et all pick up the pace.

  17. JoeyA July 21st, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    Pete did not like all that Nady talk in previous entry comments. Pete-we need something to fill our day, at least for me. the markets are a bit sluggish right now, crude is only up .97. anyway, i agree about the transition year and Cashman has done a great job making it a transition year without actually saying it or doing something that would say it outright. i also agree that i’d rather not make the playoffs, than make it and lose in the first round. if this offense could get on track and Wang returns by September, we have a great shot. Big IF’s, but it’s all about getting hot at the right time. GIANTS!!! (referring to the N.Y. G-Men, not the once great Brooklyn franchise shipped 3000 miles West)

  18. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 21st, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Bob,

    I couldn’t have said it better.

    If they trade, it has to be for a difference-making starting pitcher.

    I however, am on the board with the “let’s do what we can with what we have”.

  19. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    This has been an interesting, though maddening season, but Peter makes superb points about it being a transition year. The Yanks will continue to monitor possible acquisitions that can help the team at a reasonable price. That’s good management, even though some want to string Cashman up.

    Thank you meaning the get Holliday, get Fuentes, get Bay, get Nady fans need to just accept that.

  20. whozat July 21st, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    As a shining example of half the points Pete made, we have this from Knobler:

    “But Burnett’s Friday night start at Tampa Bay attracted more than a dozen scouts, including two from the Yankees. Several of the scouts in attendance didn’t stay for the rest of the weekend series, a clear indication that they were in town strictly to watch Burnett.”

    That’s an example of BOTH a writer making up something just in case it happens AND implying that the presence of scouts means a trade is in the works.

    Note that he doesn’t say if the Yankee scouts stayed the whole weekend or not. That means they probably did. Because they were probably not there to watch Burnett.

  21. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Pete, this is one of your best posts. You are right on every count.

  22. bigjf July 21st, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    I understand the logic, but it is hard as a fan to call the last year at Yankee Stadium a “transition” year in personnel. A World Series this year would probably be the biggest victory yet. Plus, they’re 3 games back in the Wild Card and very much in contention. Sure, Nady isn’t Clemente, but he is having a good season and could come at a decent price as a right-handed boost to the lineup, if not replacing then helping to deal with the loss of Matsui probably for the season.

  23. S.A.- I believe in this team but can the offense stop being so offensive? July 21st, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Hhhmm..
    Francessa alone today. I wonder if he loves Bronson Arroyo again?

  24. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Also, people should keep in mind: teams are loathe to trade within their own division, or with a team that they are competing against.

    So if the Yankees do trade, it probably won’t be with Boston, Tampa, Toronto, Baltimore, Chicago (AL), Minnesota, Detroit, Oakland or Anaheim.

    In fact, if the Yankees do trade with anyone, it will probably be a national league team.

  25. Joe from Long Island July 21st, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    Out of curiosity, does anyone have any information if Jarrod Washburn is really worthwhile to pursue?

    I’ve been impressed with him whenever he’s pitched against the Yankees, going back to when he was with the Angels. I know his overrall numbers haven’t been great this year, but his last few starts have been better, I think. Given what’s been going on in Seattle, I’ve wondered if he might be a reasonably priced pick-up in case Rasner continues to fall and the guys in the minors aren’t ready to come up.

  26. bigjf July 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    But yes, I understand we’re probably not getting Holliday, Teixeira, or Peavy at the deadline.

  27. abcgiftcards.com July 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    very well said!! This is why I dont read the ny post. every day a bunch of garbage.

  28. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    JoeyA,

    Seriously, aren’t the first round playoff exits the WORST?!

    Odd though it may seem, I’d rather not even make the playoffs.

  29. Joe from Long Island July 21st, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Rebecca – I’ve got to run to a meeting, but I hope you’re feeling better today. Hang in.

  30. Nick in SF July 21st, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    I think that once-great Brooklyn franchise was actually the Dodgers. The Giants played in Manhattan.

    I wonder if there are any bats available for cheap who wouldn’t cost any prospects during this transition year. Nah, probably not.

  31. abcd July 21st, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    yup yup – transition season. yanks should not panic. stay the course and see what happens unless someone can be had for cheap.

    i’d rather keep all the yankee young arms right now. edwar + veras + robertson + geise have really solidified that bullpen. they all make less than one season of latroy hawkins.

  32. Wolf In Pinstripes July 21st, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Not sure if anyone mentioned this here yesterday or today, so my apologies if it has been already.

    Chad Jennings at the SWB blog has mentioned that despite it being Kennedy’s regular turn in the rotation on Thursday, they have “TBA” listed instead, and Ian has not been told anything regarding his name not being pencilled in.

    I would imagine that it’s silly to read too much into it, but what do you guys think it could mean? A call-up to NY? A possible deal involving IPK being discussed?

    Just for the sake of discussion, your thoughts?

  33. Matt July 21st, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Now if only most of the posters at the Yes Network Messageboard would read Pete’s worlds as well.

  34. holdstrong July 21st, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    We didn’t turn the Twins down. We put a deadline on the deal.

    If they wanted that deal, they would have taken it… they didn’t so we pulled it.

    Saying we turned them down would be like threatening your wife that you will walk out the door if she doesn’t stop you… then we she doesn’t you turn around and tell people you walked out on her. Yeah, you showed her!

  35. Paul July 21st, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Excellent points all, Pete. I would add one further thought. For many years, other teams peddled their declining vets to the Yanks and often got premium prospects in return. You know the list of players we lost at least as well as I do.

    Now, Cashman wants to establish that he won’t deal just for the sake of making a deal for someone who once hit 4 HRs or won 17 games, that he won’t pay a premium. He’ll make an Abreu deal if he can, but he won’t trade Hughes when he knew that the entire package the Mets traded for Santana wasn’t worth Hughes. So Cashman is going to play a very patient game of poker and we should all expect to sweat it out. I look forward to doing it via your blog!

  36. MoBoy(aka McLovin) July 21st, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    “TRansition year??”

    “Stay the course.”

    “I’d rather not even make the playoffs.”

    When did these people around here become Met fans.Sad.

  37. Jon Williams July 21st, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Has anyone informed Hank Steinbrenner of all this?

  38. m4rk6 July 21st, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Ahhh. My kingdom for a ‘serviceable’ ‘average’ no. 3 starter. :(

    Since I don’t have a kingdom… guess that’s it.

  39. Brent (Yankees Need a Pick-Me-Up) July 21st, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Spoiled Yankees fans seem to think that making the playoffs every year is mandatory. I hate losing in the first round more than I hate not making the playoffs. This is especially the case when the Yankees have traded young talent for rental players.

    Nothing is mandatory, but the point is that Cashman said the Yankees would rebuild WHILE contending. If that’s the case, then the “spoiled Yankees fans” have every right to wish/hope/pray their team gets into the playoffs. In their minds, if a deal here or a deal there gets them to October, then they want the GM to make it. (I’m talking more deals like Ponson/Sexson rather than blockbuster trades)

  40. Chet July 21st, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    The Mad Prince in Pinstripes
    Chet,
    In reference to your final sentence, isn’t that reason enough to just see what we can do w/o making some gigantic, costly trade?

    ——————
    MP^2-
    Agree that we should make a costly trade. We will get someone who could help but where do they fit and who sits. My point was that if this team had 5-10 keys hit all year, it would not change the stats, but we would be close to, or in, first place.

    Chet

  41. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    -via Chad Jennings

    Contreras did say that Horne will throw to live hitters Monday, take a day off Tuesday and then throw a light side on Wednesday. “Then we’ll go from there,” Contreras said. That obviously makes you wonder if Horne is the guy for Thursday, which seems possible, but the Yankees minor league starters usually throw their light side two days before they start. Horne said he only knows he’s throwing the equivalent of two innings Monday.

    Ian Kennedy said that he hasn’t been told he’s not starting Thursday. As far as he knows, he’s still on every fifth day and will be starting Thursday in Scranton. He also aknowledged that could easily change.

    I also asked Contreras about Phil Hughes. Contreras said Hughes last threw a 35-pitch bullpen session. Next up is a 45-pitch session then two batting practice sessions against hitters. After that, assuming all goes well, he should be ready to pitch in a game, probably in the Gulf Coast League or Florida State League. He won’t jump straight to Triple-A.

    “We had to start over, spring training and everything,” Contreras said.

  42. j July 21st, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    boo arod! boo 160 OPS+! he sure needs to pick it up.

  43. summer July 21st, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    “Try and think a little” is such a rude thing to write to your readers. Seriously, try to think a little before you say things like this.

  44. hmmm July 21st, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    “When did these people around here become Met fans.Sad.”

    probably after reading your posts.

  45. Bob(The Original) July 21st, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Chad Jennings at the SWB blog has mentioned that despite it being Kennedy’s regular turn in the rotation on Thursday, they have “TBA” listed instead, and Ian has not been told anything regarding his name not being pencilled in.

    I would imagine that it’s silly to read too much into it, but what do you guys think it could mean? A call-up to NY? A possible deal involving IPK being discussed?

    Just for the sake of discussion, your thoughts?

    My guess. They want to see what Ponson and Rasner do the next 2 nights and then see if they need to get Kennedy on schedule to eventually take one of those spots.

  46. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    When did these people around here become Met fans.Sad.

    When the league starts getting 23 yrs. old and whooping over 30 yrs. old vet players you’ll understand.

  47. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    That Ian Kennedy bit is certainly interesting–curious to see how this develops.

  48. Fleas (surprises on the horizon) July 21st, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    there is a counter-offer on the table right now. One that will be a surprise or maybe not.. you just never know.

  49. Laura July 21st, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    Excellent post, Pete. We could use a little realism around here.

  50. Roger July 21st, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    Isn’t frenzied idle speculation our job?

    I’m just a reader, not even an amateur blogger. Why do I have to be realistic or responsible in my wild imaginings?

    IT ISN’T TOO LATE TO GET SANTANA! Cashman should call Omar now! Offer him Kennedy, plus Melky! Throw in Damon – he needs an outfielder!

  51. Tank July 21st, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    What?

    So you mean no Jackson and Melancon for Marte?

  52. CUYanks July 21st, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    If we consider who’s ahead of the yanks in the standings, we have to almost expect to be a very serious playoff contender. We’re 4.5 back of the rays, and you have to almost bet on them coming back to earth, and even if they somehow don’t, we still are only 2 out of the loss column with the sox. The twins are also vastly overachieving. So, for all the pessimists out there, if the Yankees aren’t going to make the playoffs, which 2 teams will ahead of them?

  53. Bronx Jeers July 21st, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    Thanks for the buzz kill Pete. I realize its only the reality of the Yanks going into this particular deadline but what are we supposed to talk about here if you lay out all these pointers ? I mean are you telling me that other GMs aren’t calling Cashman 24/7 about Melky and Kennedy? Why not? they’re awesome and everybody else is too including Kei Igawa!!

    Seriously though if Damon comes back healthy and a couple of other guys just hit like they are capable of, we should be ok offensively.

    Get a lefty for the bullpen and a 2nd tier starter like they should have at the beginning of last year instead of Igawa.

  54. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    MoBoy,

    When we broke away from the idiot Yankee fans who actually think the team can win the World Series every year by dumping money and prospects on All Stars.

  55. Vrsce July 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    Very logical post Pete, good common sense and probably very accurate.

    However it takes all the fun out of speculating; so how about Kennedy and Hughes for Burnett?

  56. mel July 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    They turned down Melky/Hughes? Maybe on the first day to up the ante. While Gomez has worked out well for the Twins, I think they would have loved to have gotten Hughes.

    Blogs are dangerous, too. After Street blew the game on Saturday, someone told him he had been traded to the Brewers. The rumor had started on a blog.

    Can you imagine if Pete posted that we traded Joba for Papelbon?

  57. MoBoy(aka McLovin) July 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    hmmm-

    Didn’t know you acted like a Mets fan hmmm.

    It’s All good just the last year of the most famous stadium in the world.Good way too close it out with AAAA players

    Just a $200 million dollar team thats all hmmm.No worries.Who needs the playoffs.

  58. 86w183 July 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    I disagree that anyone thinks Nady is Clemente or that Fuentes will solve all issues… but both would be good fits to fill voids on the current roster.

    In season deals among contenders are prettu unusual, but it could happen.

    that they are three back of the playoffs while making this transition is pretty remarkable if you ask me and a big part of its has been the patience with the young reliefer corps that has become so effective.

    Win the next two series and it really gets interesting.

  59. G. Love July 21st, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    I also think there will be a significant deal before the deadline.

    Local media and fans, besides the few that post in here, are now starting to get on board with the Cashman overvaluing and hoarding his prospects.

    People are finally admitting that the Yankee prospects are not as good as the hype and are YEARS away from the majors yet the core of the team is in the win now mode of the career.

    At this point if he makes no deals and they don’t make the playoffs in this final season at the old park, the media and fans will crucify the guy for holding onto the Kennedy’s of this world when he could have traded for pieces that could have put this team into the post season.

    If he had signed one veteran pitcher or traded for one in the off season, that 4.5 game gap might not be a gap at all. We gave away so many games watching Kennedy and Hughes take their lumps and burn up the bullpen.

    Once the starting pitching got better and got us to the 5th-6th on a regular basis, the pen became a big asset for us. The arms they’ve assembled in the pen are impressive and he and Girardi deserve credit for this.

    That said, Cashman’s plan for the rotation this season is why this team is in 3rd place.

    Yeah, the offense sucks, but when you have Damon, Matsui and Posada injured and their replacements being poor offensive players you can understand a little why they are struggling.

    He has a chance to fix it, but I think he’s stubborn and wants to go down with the ship.

    Sometimes it hurts to make a deal to make your team better. None of us wanted David Wells to get traded for Clemens, but that deal turned out pretty good for this team.

    I think Cashman thinks standing pat will get us to the post season and he wants to be right, but unless they improve this offense and get another hitter who can get on base and drive in runs, they are going to struggle.

    We just swept a series and I don’t think there’s a person in here who thinks we dominated Oakland pitching in any way.

  60. hmmm July 21st, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    “That said, Cashman’s plan for the rotation this season is why this team is in 3rd place. ”

    especially when he planned to have a sniper shoot Wang in the foot.

    that was his coupe de grace.

  61. bkight13 July 21st, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    This article sounds like a loser’s mentality. I’m not calling Pete any names, but the Yankees don’t need to think like this. They have to make some moves to get better now. They are 4.5 games in back of 2 good teams, not the fake Mariners of last year. The Yankees can have their cake and eat it too. They don’t have to move Hughes, but everyone should be available. Brian can always overpay to re-load the farm.

  62. hmmm July 21st, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    “It’s All good just the last year of the most famous stadium in the world.Good way too close it out with AAAA players”

    i’d actually love to see them make a play for Burnett or Nady or Holliday or Teixeira if there is a deal that makes sense. i am open to almost any deal that doesn’t involve Jackson or Hughes.

    that doesn’t change the fact that your posts make my eyes bleed.

  63. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Our batters didn’t dominate Oakland’s pitching.

    Our pitchers did.

  64. m4rk6 July 21st, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    “Just a $200 million dollar team thats all hmmm.No worries.Who needs the playoffs.”

    By that logic, since Bill Gates makes a little over 1 Billion dollars a year, he should be able to end global hunger, bring about world peace, eradicate poverty, clean pollution and then have breakfast…

    Nice job to have. Apparently money solves everything.

  65. Vrsce July 21st, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    Burnett is available.

  66. Fleas (surprises on the horizon) July 21st, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    AJ Burnett or Matt Holiday.. who do you think would help this team more.. this is hypothetical, I am not saying “depends on who we have to give up”

  67. MDN July 21st, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    RH BAT NEEDED

    Brad Hawpe
    Garret Atkins
    Marcus Thames

    Thames and Atkins can play 1B, Hawpe could be an answer in the OF next year

  68. G. Love July 21st, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    Hmmmm,

    Keep tryin’ Hmmmm.

    You know as well as I do that 2/5ths of this rotation in Kennedy and Hughes were abysmal this season and helped put the team into an early hole again.

    If he had acquired a veteran starter, it also would have softened the blow of Wang going down a bit.

    But go on defending your hero Brian Cashman. The only GM in the league where nearly every single one of his prospects (outside of Jackson) lost value this year.

  69. jon July 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Brad Hawpe is a lefty, I believe. I don’t believe the Tigers would deal to the Yankees, especially with both fighting for the wild card.

  70. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    It’s All good just the last year of the most famous stadium in the world.Good way too close it out with AAAA players

    Just a $200 million dollar team thats all hmmm.No worries.Who needs the playoffs.

    That’s all you care about isn’t it ? this one year. I don’t care where this payroll is at currently the point is we are moving away from this thinking of an All Star vet in every position. Atleast not one that takes your future players away.

  71. CUYanks July 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Brad Hawpe is lefty.

  72. m4rk6 July 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    “Brian can always overpay to re-load the farm.”

    *scratches head* …er, what?

    I thought the front office was seriously thinking about reducing the payroll…

  73. raymagnetic ®™ July 21st, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    “Local media and fans, besides the few that post in here, are now starting to get on board with the Cashman overvaluing and hoarding his prospects.

    People are finally admitting that the Yankee prospects are not as good as the hype and are YEARS away from the majors yet the core of the team is in the win now mode of the career.

    At this point if he makes no deals and they don’t make the playoffs in this final season at the old park, the media and fans will crucify the guy for holding onto the Kennedy’s of this world when he could have traded for pieces that could have put this team into the post season.

    If he had signed one veteran pitcher or traded for one in the off season, that 4.5 game gap might not be a gap at all. We gave away so many games watching Kennedy and Hughes take their lumps and burn up the bullpen.

    Once the starting pitching got better and got us to the 5th-6th on a regular basis, the pen became a big asset for us. The arms they’ve assembled in the pen are impressive and he and Girardi deserve credit for this.

    That said, Cashman’s plan for the rotation this season is why this team is in 3rd place.”

    G. Love,

    As usual, you are wrong. The pitching isn’t what’s the problem. It’s the hitting.

    The Yankees are on pace to score 200 LESS runs than they scored last year. 200 Runs.

    If the Yankees were scoring runs at their usual pace they would most likely have 5 more wins at least.

    Please tell me who Cashman could have gotten for Kennedy straight up?

    Also, it’s not only the Yankees who value their prospects. It’s also baseball talent evaluators who placed value on Yankees prospects. It’s not the Yankees themselves saying they have a top 5 farm system. Baseball America and Keith Law both seem to think the Yankees have a top 5 farm system. I guess they’re wrong as well.

  74. MoBoy(aka McLovin) July 21st, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    hmmm-

    Can’t be a spelling teacher like you hmmm.If you can’t read my post don’t reply to them transition guy.

    My problem is some people actually have no problem with this team not making the playoffs like Met fans….like hmmm.

  75. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Brad Hawpe
    Garret Atkins
    Marcus Thames

    Between these I like Thames the best, but I highly doubt Detroit is going to give him up for anything we’re willing to pay.

  76. bkight13 July 21st, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    “I thought the front office was seriously thinking about reducing the payroll…”

    I’m talking about paying over the slot in the draft and pumping money into Latin America.

  77. mel July 21st, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    G. Love,

    I think that every fan here would like more offense.
    Would like career years from the players. Would like RISP scoring.

    But the club is headed in the right direction. They’re on the cusp of being, believe it or not, contenders. In a year of parity, the Yankees with their banged up players and getting used to a new coaching staff are right there.

    You’ve got much higher standards of the club, FO, and players based on your criticisms.

    But trust me, if the Yankees fall just short of making the playoffs there will be no charging the Bastille or similar coups.

    Appreciative fans will say that they done good despite all the injuries. They won’t call for Cashman’s head because changes are coming and it’s going to be exciting.

    Some will say that getting Johan would’ve won us the WS. Just because they may be right doesn’t make the rest of us who’ve bought into the plan wrong. Getting Santana guarantees you nothing.

    As long as the team doesn’t embarass themselves by not caring or trying, the front office and level headed fans will be satisfied in this year of transition.

  78. raymagnetic ®™ July 21st, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    “The only GM in the league where nearly every single one of his prospects (outside of Jackson) lost value this year.”

    You mean the prospects you know about may have lost value.

    There are also OTHER minor league guys who you haven’t heard about that have INCREASED their value.

  79. Matt-LI July 21st, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    I don’t think any of us expected to dominate Oakland pitching when they have the best ERA in all of baseball. We not only won the series, but we swept it. I wouldn’t exactly complain about how we did it at this point.

  80. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    G Love,

    Man, you make zero sense sometimes.

    I love the Stadium as much as the next guy but I’m sorry if I am sorry if I am not on board with trying to trade for guys to win for the sake of the stadium. Much like our transition to the new stadium in 2009, we are transitioning our team for more than one year of success.

    And hmmm is exactly right…you criticize our rotation when one of our best starters was injured. Why don’t you tip your cap to them for doing as well as they have w/o Wang in the rotation? You think Cashman planned for that?

    A trade might be in order to fill some of the smaller weaknesses, but a blockbuster is likely a bad move and out of the question when, as Pete points out, they passed on Santana, Sabathia, and Harden.

  81. 86w183 July 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    You cannot reload the farm with $$$ that’s why it has taken since the summer of ’05 to generate a significant list of prospects.

    I think anyone who would rather not make the playoffs is nuts. It’s like the NCAA Basketball Tournament. Even a first round blowout beats the hell out of missing out.

    It’s not a loser mentality to stay with a commitment to get younger, cheaper and more athletic… it’s just there are times when patience is really challenged and this is one of them. That’s why any deal must be for a player that is below 30 and can help beyond this stretch run.

    I don’t care about A-Rod’s OPS-Plus… did you see his at bats the past two games? Not pretty, only one ball his semihard… yes, he needs to pick ip up in the final 60+ games… not as much as Jeter, Abreu and Posada, but he can be more productive.

  82. jon July 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    The guys who have increased their value: Melancon, McCutchen, Miranda, Montero, Robertson, Jackson (still on the upswing), and possibly JB Cox…but Cox and a guy like Sanchez need to perform consistently coming back from injury.
    What ever happened to the other 2 guys from the Detroit deal? Whelan and Clagget?

  83. bdog375 July 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    I do not know why Cashman gets so much heat. He is a repairing a badly damaged farm system while still working with the expectation of winning now. If you want to see a bad GM in action, just wait to see what the Mets look like when Minaya is done with them.

    If we just sit tight this year, then we will be able to make a run at Teixiera in the offseason. I know he is overpriced, but he is a switch hitter who plays gold glove defense in a position we desperately need an upgrade in.

  84. jon July 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    I’d go after Teixeira in the off-season, but he’s going to be way overpriced. Nonetheless, theyll have to money to overpay.

  85. G. Love July 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    Ray,

    It’s not about who he could have gotten for Kennedy straight up.

    It’s about what he could have gotten if he floated him and Horne and Marquez, etc.

    Instead he spent the off season telling other teams his prospects are off limits. The die was cast that he was not interested in dealing.

    It’s why he fought Hank so hard over Johan at the time. He didn’t want to trade any of them because he thought most of them were major league ready, which they were not.

    If he put Kennedy out there this off season, who knows what he could have gotten. Kennedy had what will most likely be the highest value of his career this off season.

  86. mel July 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    And please, anyone, before you tell me the Red Sox are doing it with injuries. Stop. I don’t care about them. The only thing I know about them is they suck on the road. Their road splits are more glaring than the Matt Holliday’s.

  87. Matt-LI July 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    Zach Mac has also stepped his stock up, big time. Having a hell of a season in the minors.

  88. Bronx Jeers July 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    CASHMAN SIGHTING!!!!

    Verrazano Bridge – westbound

    Fresh Kills ?

  89. raymagnetic ®™ July 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    “What ever happened to the other 2 guys from the Detroit deal? Whelan and Clagget?”

    Whelan is just coming off of the DL and Clagett has been pitching great this year.

  90. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    Hughes, Kennedy and Tabata may have lost value, but Robertson, Jackson and Montero have certainly gained it

    Baseall’s a finicky sport.

    After all, last year Jose Molina was a cast off to the Angels, Josh Hamilton was a major risk for Cincinnati, Fausto Carmona had come out of nowhere…

    a lot can change in a half season.

  91. jon July 21st, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Let’s not forget that Brackman is supposed to be an ace-in-the-hole too, when he comes back.

  92. m4rk6 July 21st, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    I’d rather go for a pitcher than Teixiera. With Boras as his agent, his pricetag will probably be at the 20+M mark.

  93. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    mel: Outside of the Angels, the Yankees are actually the only .500 team on the road.

    This could potentially be a huge boon…

  94. raymagnetic ®™ July 21st, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    “Ray,

    It’s not about who he could have gotten for Kennedy straight up.

    It’s about what he could have gotten if he floated him and Horne and Marquez, etc.

    Instead he spent the off season telling other teams his prospects are off limits. The die was cast that he was not interested in dealing.

    It’s why he fought Hank so hard over Johan at the time. He didn’t want to trade any of them because he thought most of them were major league ready, which they were not.

    If he put Kennedy out there this off season, who knows what he could have gotten. Kennedy had what will most likely be the highest value of his career this off season.”

    G. Love,

    How do you know he didn’t float out those names you mention and teams didn’t want them? How do you know how other teams value the Yankees prospects?

    Maybe the only prospects other teams want are Hughes and AJax.

    Do you think Cashman can offer up Ian Kennedy and Alan Horne and get back Brandon Webb?

    Do you think Cashman is going to trade Ian Kennedy for Juan Pierre?

    Cashman was reluctant to trade Hughes for Santana and then agreed to it before Minnesota decided to shop the deal. Are you unaware of that little tidbit or do you just like to hear yourself rant?

    As I said before, the pitching has been fine, better than last year actually. The hitting has been bad, much much worse than last year.

  95. back bench July 21st, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Could it be that Cashman is also working the wires to block the RS from getting the BP help they need?

    From the Boston Globe this AM, interesting comment from Fracona regarding Okijima.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....ty/?page=1

    “Fixing the bottom end of the lineup – which features a daily soft parade of Crisps, Coras, Variteks, Cashes, and Lowries – might be tougher. Spots 7-8-9 are consistently killing the Sox offense.

    Then there’s the bridge to Papelbon. There is none. Francona last night made it clear he has lost all faith in Hideki Okajima. Delcarmen continues to be a trick-or-treat set-up man and it’s simply not happening for Craig Hansen.”

    This season is not a ‘given’ for anybody. In order for Jeter, Cano, Abreu and A-Rod to play anywhere near the numbers on the back of their ball cards, the second half is going to something to watch. Hang in there, troops.

  96. bkight13 July 21st, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Cashman needs to trade SOME of his chips to help the team NOW. The scrap heap of pithcers he is looking at(Ponson, Milton, Garcia, Pavano, etc.) is very thin. Take a chance on Burnett and get a lefty. The offense has to fix itself.

  97. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut July 21st, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    “Bronx Jeers
    July 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm
    CASHMAN SIGHTING!!!!

    Verrazano Bridge – westbound

    Fresh Kills ?”

    Can’t be, they closed that dump years ago. Can’t find “fresh” talent there!

  98. jon July 21st, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    I see the BoSox landing Marte/Nady to strengthen themselves. They have a deeper system than the Yanks, especially with position players, and the Yanks just don’t want to give up good young pitching.

  99. 86w183 July 21st, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Kennedy is about to turn 24, Hughes just turned 22, Tabata turns do at the end of the month. I don’t think any of them will be viewed differently by real baseball people once they are healthy.

    You can add Melancon, Ramirez, Veras and McCutchen to the list of guys whose stock is way up from the start of the year.

    I bet a year from now the Yanks decision not to pursue Santana at the cost of Hughes, Kennedy, Cabrera and more than $ 120 million will look incredibly wise.

    As for Teixiera… just because one guy wrote that Boras is dangling the $ 23 million a year number doesn’t make it true, nor does it mean anyone is likely to pay it.

  100. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    mel: Outside of the Angels, the Yankees are actually the only .500 team on the road.

    This could potentially be a huge boon…

    That seriously shocked me and hopefully we’ll turn it on at home also. The road record needs to continue especially w/ 10 games vs the Angels and Soxs in the 2nd half.

  101. mel July 21st, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    Rebecca,

    The Angels actually have a better road record than home record. Maybe they don’t like the rally monkey, water features, and squirrels, err, rats?

    What is scary though, is that Boston’s played more road games than the Yankees or TB.

    I really hope we can take the weekend series.

  102. bigjf July 21st, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Ask Mets fans if they would prefer last year’s collapse or being eliminated in the first round, I think they’d take the latter. I’d rather make the playoffs than not, no matter what happens after. Preferring to not make the playoffs is spoken like an idiot.

  103. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    I see the BoSox landing Marte/Nady to strengthen themselves. They have a deeper system than the Yanks, especially with position players, and the Yanks just don’t want to give up good young pitching.

    LOL the Rays will also be a player in this so will a bunch of other teams. Hey if Boston wants to deal 2 grade A players by all means do it. :)

  104. Eugie July 21st, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    “The Yankees are trying to build a team that will contend for years to come, not do whatever it takes for 2008. If that was the case, Santana would be in the rotation instead of Sidney Ponson.”

    This would make sense if the team didn’t already contend. Not to mention that they signed Arod to a 10 year deal for a gazillion dollars in the offseason. I think they’re just trying to have it both ways.

  105. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    I’d rather make the playoffs than not, no matter what happens after. Preferring to not make the playoffs is spoken like an idiot.

    And then the players you deal could become stars while you continue to rebuild for that 1st rd. and out…please man a 1 and done stinks and we know that.

  106. mel July 21st, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Brandon,

    Haha. Isn’t it great to be able to fortify the bullpen from the farm like the Yankees can?

  107. G. Love July 21st, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    Ray,

    You see it one way, I see it another. During the Johan trade debacle Cashman fought it every step of the way and it took Hank getting involved to get Hughes locked in the deal.

    The Minny GM got played by Theo and lost. But if they made the deal for Johan, Cashman would not have been happy since he clearly didn’t want to make that deal unless we were trading garbage for Johan. He didn’t want to do a fair trade and was forced to by ownership.

    You love the guy. I get it. Go hug yourself and squeal. You win.

    I think he’s a bad talent evaluator and I think he’s severely overvalued the young talent in this organization and for a man who spent hundreds of millions of dollars to bring back a veteran core of a team that is in win now mode, he needs to do more.

    If this really were a rebuilding/transition year, he never would have brought back Abreu and Posada. Bringing back Abreu at 16 million hardly speaks of a transitional move.

    You know what’s a transitional move? You sign Geoff Jenkins for a season at 5 million to play RF while he holds the seat warm for the kid in the minors he’s waiting on.

    Only problem is there is no kid in the minors we’re waiting on.

    We have 1 legit positional prospect who might help the team in the next 3 years.

    He’s going to have to go outside the organization at some point to find positional players.

  108. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    Kerry Woods to the DL expect thier names to be open for Marte or Fuentes sweepstakes.

  109. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Brandon: Yep.

    Mel: Really? I remember Boston playing a lot of home games, but I guess I’m wrong on that.

    Still, if the Yankees win the division, it’ll be because they beat Boston and Tampa. I think we’re about even with them for the year, no?

    vs Boston: 4-5?

    I’m not quite as sure about vs Tampa, but I think it’s also similar?

  110. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    Brandon,

    Haha. Isn’t it great to be able to fortify the bullpen from the farm like the Yankees can?

    mel yet no one notices it. Don’t you know the Yankees don’t have pitching we are top 5 in BP I think yet we our system sucks.

  111. Blargh July 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    How much do the Cubs have left to trade with this year, anyway?

  112. The Big Sexy July 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    Im too sexy for a trade

  113. Jorge Steinbrenner July 21st, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    “When did these people around here become Met fans. Sad.”

    What’s sad is that there’s fans who actually believe this sort of garbage you’re spewing.

    You honestly deserve to watch nothing but “The Best of the Bucky and Stump Merrill Era” in a loop for 24 hours a day.

  114. Jorge Steinbrenner July 21st, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    “Ask Mets fans if they would prefer last year’s collapse or being eliminated in the first round, I think they’d take the latter. I’d rather make the playoffs than not, no matter what happens after. Preferring to not make the playoffs is spoken like an idiot.”

    and i’d rather not sell the farm in order to squeak into the playoffs. there’s a lot more grey area here, my friend.

  115. mel July 21st, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    G. Love,

    Posada was the best FA catcher. A-rod was the best FA 3B. Mariano was the best FA pitcher.

    If not Abreu, who? Short term=cheap and viable option.

    Transition for Yankees is different from any other team. You don’t blow it up and wait for the good times.

    They’re expected to contend no matter what.

    The part of the team that’s in transition is the pitching.

    Bullpen under control? Check.
    Front of rotation doing its job? Check.
    Back of the rotation eating innings? Gobble gobble.

  116. mel July 21st, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    Rebecca,

    Road games played:

    Boston: 53
    Yankees: 46
    Tampa: 44

    Here’s a team vs team grid:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings/grid

  117. G. Love July 21st, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Mel,

    I’m not arguing that the pitching hasn’t rebounded and responded after the Hughes/Kennedy debacle.

    I think what’s been done in this bullpen is amazing.

    With this pen performing the way they have been and with the top 3 in the rotation performing the way did this weekend, I think this team is a contender provided they get some better offensive performers to replace the injured non-performing guys in the lineup.

    My issue was with the off season plan. It failed and put the team in the hole it’s currently digging out of.

    That said, I don’t think he should make the same mistake again and put his faith in prospects over a major league ready hitter who can help this lineup.

    This is a win now team that has the chance to win now. We shouldn’t blow the chance just to keep depth in the minors.

  118. Someone Else July 21st, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    “It’s about what he could have gotten if he floated him and Horne and Marquez, etc.”

    G. Love –

    Trades don’t work that way. No team is going to call Cashman up and say ‘hey, I heard you were floating three 2nd tier pitching prospects; how about Teixeira, is that enough?’. This ain’t fantasy baseball.

    You could probably get a Nelson Cruz for that package, but in the end, you have to ask ‘why?’.

  119. MooseCall July 21st, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Yanks should dump Bobby Meacham and hire Willie Randolph.

  120. Bobby July 21st, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Great point, but disagree because it is the last year of Yankee Stadium, the house that Ruth built. The tradition of the team implies that it should win in the last year its operations.

    We need another arm and outfielder/bat. Cashmoney will do something dramatic.

    Let’s Go Yankees

  121. douche July 21st, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Hey Pete, I don’t read your site to have you talk to me like a 12 year old. I think I’ve posted maybe three-four times, I mostly read through to get info. Fans like to speculate. Journalists like to create buzz. Maybe if you put Bruce Springsteen on pause on your Ipod and chilled out a little, you’d realize that trade rumors, hopes and wishes are all parts of being a fan. Are the rockies going to take a bag of cheetos, kei igawa and a promissory note for three Arod high fives for Fuentes? No. But we can dream.

  122. Someone Else July 21st, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    “Haha. Isn’t it great to be able to fortify the bullpen from the farm like the Yankees can?”

    Yup – that ‘overrated farm system’ has produced one of the better bullpens over the last couple of months.

  123. Someone Else July 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Not to mention, probably the best farm system reliever (Melancon) isn’t even up yet.

  124. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    PEACE OUT SHOCKEY !

  125. gayle July 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Oh lordy Arroyo is back in the favored spot for Francesa. Also he has never heard of another MLB player other than Wang having lisc-franc injury. hello Mr Francesa you only need look a little further down the bullpen to know that Bruney had the same injury THIS season.

    It really is amazing they have a sports talk show

  126. Joe Monte July 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Bronson Arroyo…my goodness…

  127. mel July 21st, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    G. Love,

    K. So we sorta agree.

    No fair, using hindsight here. That’s like saying well if the Titanic never set sail that morning, it wouldn’t have sunk.

    There’s a lot of shoulda, coulda, woulda in baseball. The trick is to overcome and triumph.

    The Yankees look like they’re on track, so there’s no sense looking in the rear view.

    Get on the bandwagon, G. Love, it’s fun when we’re winning. :)

  128. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    Brandon (and everyone): Check out the bullpen splits and ranks.

  129. S.A.- I believe in this team but can the offense stop being so offensive? July 21st, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    Wow! Shockey traded to the Saints. Bye!

  130. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Bronson Arroyo ? Again FatF*** can’t forget about him ?

  131. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    Shockey for real?

  132. mel July 21st, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    Brandon,

    You should talk! First Threets, now Cruz? :)

  133. Tank July 21st, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    I wish we made this deal on draft day, the #2 next year will presumably be in the 20s rather than 10.

    Either way, it needed to be done. Chemistry was one of the most important parts of our run.

  134. S.A.- I believe in this team but can the offense stop being so offensive? July 21st, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Traded to the Saints for a 2nd and 5th round pick

  135. TKinDC (subtract one from Jete's GiDP) July 21st, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Seeya Shockey –

    I can’t imagine what kind of damage that guy is going to do when he is set loose on Bourbon Street!

    (hide your daughters, cajuns!)

  136. TKinDC (subtract one from Jete's GiDP) July 21st, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Seeya Shockey –

    I can’t imagine what kind of damage that guy is going to do when he is set loose on Bourbon Street!

    (hide your daughters, cajuns!)

  137. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    You should talk! First Threets, now Cruz?

    mel there is a difference here, w/ Cruz it’s about cheap options because the trade market is too steep, Fatboy refuses to acknowledge the depth in the farmsystem pitching heck the only depth he understands is in a cake, anyway I didn’t ask for Threets to be put on the ML roster it would have been a project to repair for Rafael Chaves, in the offseason they can attempt to groom him if or when the Giants release him.

  138. raymagnetic ®™ July 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    How G. Love thinks trades work:

    *Brian Cashman calling Neal Huntington the Pittsburgh GM.

    Cashman – Hi Neal, this is Cash Money

    Neal H. – Little Wayne?!?!

    Cashman – No, It’s Brian. Brian Cashman.

    Neal H. – Oh Hey Brian, I’ve been hoping you would call

    Cashman – Yep, I’m going to do you a favor today Neal. I’m going to give you Alan Horne and Brett Gardner and all I ask in return is Jason Bay and Damaso Marte. I’ll even give you our McCutchen (Dan) for your McCutchen (Andrew)

    Neal H. – Brian, that’s way too generous on your part. You can keep your McCutchen (Dan)and I’ll still let you have our McCutchen (Andrew)

    Cashman – Okay, Neal. Nice fleecing you.

    Neal – Anytime Brian, anytime.

    :)

  139. TKinDC (subtract one from Jete's GiDP) July 21st, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    I thought it was nice of Pete to devote an entire paragraph to Nelson Cruz raking in the PCL and his ‘dozens of AAAA’ brethren.

    j/k Brandon!

  140. bdog375 July 21st, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    So I tried posting all the bullpen era stats, but apparently they are not get posted.

  141. Bryan (Yankees fan) July 21st, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    What a terrible move trading Shockey

    People don’t understand how dominating he would be if they used him right

  142. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    bdog: Try typing them out instead of posting?

  143. mel July 21st, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Rebecca,

    Do you have a link for those bullpen era stats?

  144. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    What a terrible move trading Shockey

    Jerry Reese is a man about morals and work ethic, Jeremy brought this on himself you don’t scream or whine and bitch about your role on the team to the GM who just had a big part in constructing the Superbowl champions.

  145. Fredo Corleone July 21st, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    “What a terrible move trading Shockey

    People don’t understand how dominating he would be if they used him right”

    He’s a lot more talented than what the G-men have left at the TE position, but he was doing as much, if not more, harm than good. Compensation from the Saints was fair.

  146. Fredo Corleone July 21st, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    “Jerry Reese is a man about morals and work ethic”

    You’re half right. Morals??? Get serious. They’d take a player who molests collies if he works hard and can excel in his position.

  147. YankeesLuv July 21st, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    So agree with you Pete!

  148. The Big Sexy July 21st, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Im not happy about this shockey trade…but who would have thought that second year man(jerry reese) would get a better deal than the tuna for a lesser player.

  149. bdog375 July 21st, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Too bad for the Giants that they could not have done a 3-way w/ Saints and Dolphins and gotten Taylor instead of the picks. Having Taylor would have really helped fill the talent and leadership void Strahan’s departure created.

  150. al arodien July 21st, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    great move to by the giants to get ridd or j. shockey. even tough he is very taleted but he was to a big haedache for the team and a major distraction for Eli manning! PROOF! he played his best when he was out!!!! now mr. Tatoo get the heck out of new york!! love this move!
    GO GIANTS GO!

  151. DFox July 21st, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    This post is just silly. Anyone who is calling these points “great” needs to wake up. I have an idea, next year, on opening day in the new stadium, Pete and his bloggers can go out on the field and explain to the 50,000 fans who over-paid for tickets, including some that have $800,000 ticket plans why when the Yankees are 4.5 games back in the division and 3 in the wild card they are going to call it a “transition” year. The farm system thing is getting SO boring. This is a win now team. You already HAVE young players, Cano, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, etc. Anything short of trading them, you seriously have to think about it. Now, does anyone believe that with George Steinbrenner still alive, Hank and Hal are going to try to explain to him why no moves were made with the team 4.5 GB? Yeah right, who knows how long George has left, I’m sure he wouldn’t accept any excuse for that.

    But just because Brian Cashman doesn’t make any big moves, it doesn’t mean he didn’t want to, or wasn’t told to. Even if you’re willing to trade prospects, you still don’t want to get completely ripped off. The Yankees NEVER wanted to get ripped off. It’s one thing overpaying, it’s another thing being embarrassed in a trade.

  152. The Big Sexy July 21st, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    bdog

    looks like the giants could have being that the tuns got less for taylor than the giants got for shockey.

  153. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut July 21st, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    I think Strahan retiring is going to be the toughest thing for them to overcome.

  154. bdog375 July 21st, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    Yeah, it says here that the 3-way trade almost occured:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/.....id=3498795

    I am not sure how that didn’t happen seeing as the Dolphins would have gotten a slight bit more and they are an AFC team.

  155. The Big Sexy July 21st, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    SHockey is going to be greatly missed. I dont know how anyone Giants fan could like seeing him go. He is a top 5 TE and has been since his rookie year. Again, he is going to be greatly missed…..but at the same time you have to repesct J Reese’s decision to trade him for the picks. The guy has been a drafting machine and Im sure he knows what he’s doing. Maybe Shockeys injurues have gotten the best of him and JR feels his best days are behind him.

  156. Y's Guy July 21st, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    tuna probably shot down the 3 way so taylor wouldn’t make him look bad in front of the giants fans.

  157. JoeyA July 21st, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    DFox-
    While I don’t agree wholeheartedly with all of your points, you do make a great point about the ticket prices and a transition year. My biggest problem with the Yankee organization HANDS DOWN, is that if you don’t want to be treated like a “win every year team” and do what is necessary to prepare for the future, you can’t charge what they charge for games. Say we were in a bit of a worse situation this year and the Sox/Rays were well ahead of us and contunuing to take off, how do you defend ridiculous prices for tickets being a “seller”. like it or not, based on the prices of things this year and definitely for years to come, this team is expected to win every year, regardless of how ludicrous and unlikely it may be.
    Beers will be $10 at the new stadium, according to one of the workers when i asked at the last game i was at. This team should never be allowed to right off a season, no matter how bad it is going, for the sole reason that it is unfair for the people that paid unbelievable prices for tickets.

    FYI: it costs less to drive to baltimore, put yourself in a cheap hotel for a night, and see a game at Camden yards with BETTER tickets, than going to a Yankee game.

  158. Fredo Corleone July 21st, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    “but who would have thought that second year man(jerry reese) would get a better deal than the tuna for a lesser player.”

    Did he though? Taylor, a 34 yr old player with one, maybe two years left goes for a 2nd and 6th rounder, while the 28 year old Shockey, who probably has 5 or 6 years left goes for a 2nd and 5th. Seems about even….at best.

  159. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 21st, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    JoeyA,

    Then stay home. They’ll still sell tickets, especially when these organizational moves pay off.

  160. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    mel: Bullpen splits

    http://www.baseball-reference......;year=2008

    3.44 ERA (this includes Ohlendorf an Hawkins), 273 hits in 326 innings, 306 Ks/126 BBs, .228 BAA, .305 OBP, .361 SLG, .666 OPS

  161. vinny-b July 21st, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    Kennedy, Miranda, and Jason Jones, for Burnett.

    if not. I counter with, Kennedy and Sanchez.

    do not care to give up positon players. We are too thin.

  162. The Big Sexy July 21st, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    y’s guy…youre probably 100% correct…tuna is an ego maninac and the giants are his legacy. he is probably so sore that the giants won a sb without him(and again, it was one of his coaches who was the head coach….maybe tuna isnt as good as he thinks…maybe it was the people around him…so far 3 86 or 90 Giants coaches have gone on to win Superbowls while Parcels teams since then havent) that he’d rather take a lesser deal than improve the giants chances of repeating.

  163. Blargh July 21st, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    They’ll charge whatever the hell people will pay; it’s a business after all.

  164. TKinDC (subtract one from Jete's GiDP) July 21st, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    Then after you make that trade above, Burnett gets hurt – exercises his option, and shares an apartment with Carl Pavano next season.

  165. Don Vito A. Bellamo July 21st, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    All of that being said,,,does ANYONE think that this team can win consistently “down the stretch” when we trot out Razz and Sidney 40% of the time ? Get real. Something has to be done there or we are doomed to settle for winning 50% of our remaining games…IMHO…

  166. JoeyA July 21st, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Mad Prince-
    nice answer smartass. i’m quite capable of affording tickets, as are many of people in N.Y. all i’m saying is that a kid can’t go to a baseball game anymore. bleechers alone will be $20-$25 next year. and it’s not like they hike up prices once or twice a decade. every year prices almost double. by the time these “organizational moves” pay off, we will be paying $15 for a beer and 50$ for nosebleeds.

  167. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    The Yankees are probably not going to trade within their own division, making Burnett highly unlikey.

  168. The Big Sexy July 21st, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    Fredo…Shockey, with his playing style, will probably never play a full season without missing some time with an ionjury. And if you cant ask him to change his style..he wont be as effective…if effective at all. Taylor is arguably the best DE in the league…still, even at age 34. Michael Strahan had a phenomenal year last season at an older age. Taylor is in great shape like Strahan. I see no reason why he cant play at a high level for another 4 seasons barring any type of serious injury. And Taylor is a better DE than Shockey is a TE.

  169. bdog375 July 21st, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    AL Bullpen ERA:

    Toronto Blue Jays 3.12
    Chicago White Sox 3.16
    Oakland Athletics 3.32
    New York Yankees 3.44
    Tampa Bay Devil Rays 3.51
    Seattle Mariners 3.55
    Baltimore Orioles 3.58
    Minnesota Twins 3.77
    Kansas City Royals 3.85
    Los Angeles Angels 3.96
    Boston Red Sox 4.02
    Detroit Tigers 4.27
    Cleveland Indians 5.05
    Texas Rangers 5.06

  170. TKinDC (subtract one from Jete's GiDP) July 21st, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    Don Vito –

    Do you feel any better knowing that IPK, McCutchen, Aceves, and in about 4 weeks Hughes are waiting in the wings when Rasner turns into a pumpkin?

  171. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    I haven’t agreed with Peter more in awhile. The key term is “Transition year”. Playoffs or not this year is and always was a transition year. Any year where the organization plans to integrate 3 rookie pitchers into the rotation is obviously some sort of dramatic change. Sit back and maybe the Yanks go on a tear, maybe they are .500 this year is all about the young pitchers and at least 1 of the 3 has sticked its about 09 at this point.

  172. Jorge Steinbrenner July 21st, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    “Great point, but disagree because it is the last year of Yankee Stadium, the house that Ruth built. The tradition of the team implies that it should win in the last year its operations.

    We need another arm and outfielder/bat. Cashmoney will do something dramatic. ”

    a storybook ending has to be secondary to common sense. having a winning team in the new ballpark is as important, if not more, than closing out the old ballpark on a high note.

    trust me, i understand the sentiment, and would love to see confetti and babies kissing babies and all that to close the old stadium. i also look at where we’re at, and it’s more important to me that we are building a winning franchise in both the short and long term. that’s even more in keeping the Yankee tradition.

  173. randyhater July 21st, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    All the stand pat/transition year stuff is loser talk and is well beneath any self-respecting Yankee fan. The same sad-sacks cried a river when we mortgaged the future by trading sure-thing Matt Drews for Cecil Fielder, future superstar Rickey Ledee for David Justice, and perennial Cy Young candidate Brandon Claussen for Aaron Boone. Take back those deals and we’ve got two fewer rings and three fewer pennants.

    A deal for a righty corner makes sense on every level. If we don’t do it now, we’ll need to do it this winter, as there are no real options free agent wise. If you get Nady for 2 prospects, you essentially net 2 picks in the bargaign when you give Abreu the kiss off. Where’s the downside?

  174. Fredo Corleone July 21st, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    “I see no reason why he cant play at a high level for another 4 seasons barring any type of serious injury”

    I’d agree if Taylor didn’t say, he’s only playing one more year. Skins front office is cautiously optimistic they can get him to go a 2nd year, but even they don’t believe he’s going beyond that. Redskins really did this out of desperation.

  175. Fredo Corleone July 21st, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    “I see no reason why he cant play at a high level for another 4 seasons barring any type of serious injury”

    I’d agree if Taylor didn’t say, he’s only playing one more year. Skins front office is cautiously optimistic they can get him to go a 2nd year, but even they don’t believe he’s going beyond that. Redskins really did this out of desperation.

  176. al arodien July 21st, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    does any one know what the rule is in football if a player is out with an injury(like shockey) does he get a ring if they win the super ball?!

  177. JoeyA July 21st, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Don Vito-
    I don’t think Ponson can keep this up, but I sure as hell hope he proves me wrong, cause he looked great last start. Razz, IMO, will have 2 more starts, and, if he pulls his usual “get through 4 and gives up 3-5 runs in the 5th or 6th”, will either be demoted (idk what options he has left) or put in the pen. hopefully he can hold up until Phil comes back and hopefully Phil pitches better. IF Phil can be even decent, not exceptional, but decent, i like our chances down the stretch and in the playoffs. Moose and Pettitte are pitching excellently, and we all know Andy shines in the second half. Joba continues to be Joba. when/if this offense clicks and we can keep up this pitching, watch out. we will be a force, especially come October.

  178. DFox July 21st, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    “JoeyA,

    Then stay home. They’ll still sell tickets, especially when these organizational moves pay off.”

    Uh, wrong. Have you ever seen what the stadium looked like before ’96? Quite pathetic how empty it was. Even in ’98, they were STILL having trouble filling the stadium up. You don’t think it can go back to that? Of course it can. ’98 wasn’t all that long ago.

    Now, as for the new stadium, their revenue is coming from corporations and very wealthy people who buy season ticket plans and luxury boxes for $800,000 a year. These people aren’t like “The Mad Prince in Pinstripes”. These people are a very small minority in society. These people payed these exhorbitant amounts of money under the impression that the Yankees weren’t going to have transition years when there are VERY real possibilities of them making the playoffs and doing well once there. Yeah, if joe shmo stops going to games, he’ll be replaced by someone else. If corporation x sells their box, it’s not a given that they can resell it for the same price, and that’s where most of their revenue is coming from. That’s WHY they built the new stadium.

  179. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    TKinDC- I have little confidence in franchise coming back to contribute anything this season perhaps one of the other 3. The Yanks as they always do will be extra cautious with Hughes and likely pull back on the reigns.

  180. Matt July 21st, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    There is no reason for Cashman to overpay for Jason Bay or Xavier Nady, they are decent outfielders but the asking price is way way too high. 2 top prospects? thats nuts, if that is the price for those two whats it going to be for Holliday? Cashman will only make a move that makes sense, he wont make a big deal to mortgage the future and for the sake of making a move.
    I have confidence that he will do the right thing.

  181. Someone Else July 21st, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    JoeyA, believe it or not, the Yankees do not set ticket prices based on how the team on the field is doing. They set ticket prices (and concession prices) in order to maximize revenue.

    Last I heard, they’re still selling a hellofalotta tickets. Prices ain’t dropping anytime soon.

    The Yankees provide entertainment. Nowhere on your ticket is a win guaranteed.

  182. Jorge Steinbrenner July 21st, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    “The farm system thing is getting SO boring.”

    There’s celebrity gossip blogs. There’s restaurant blogs. Hell, there’s New York Met blogs. If baseball player development bores you, feel free to try one of those instead.

    If it wasn’t for bringing the snark to the non-believers, I think I might have taken that advice long ago….

  183. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Who is more likely to be back Wanger or Franschise. I would hope its Wanger but his injury is far more serious and occured later than Hughes injury.

  184. Andrew July 21st, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    Make way for Kevin Boss.

  185. raymagnetic ®™ July 21st, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    “These people payed these exhorbitant amounts of money under the impression that the Yankees weren’t going to have transition years when there are VERY real possibilities of them making the playoffs and doing well once there”

    I can guarantee that’s not why they paid these exhorbitant prices.

    Take Bank of America for example. B of A sponsors MLB. B of A then buys suite tickets and stadium tickets at all of the parks in baseball to schmooze their very wealthy corporate partners.

    Unless some idiot at BofA and many other corporations actually think that the Pirates have a shot to win the WS.

    Most of these corporations don’t actually care about how the teams fare. I would be willing to guess that none of them actually cares. They buy up suite tickets as a gift to clients who come into town and want to do something. It has very very little to do with the team being in contention.

  186. Vito July 21st, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    Al aroedin, yes shockey gets a ring as does ward, kiwi, even michael jennings gets a ring.

  187. Someone Else July 21st, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    Besides, what Cashman is -trying- to do is lay the plans for Dynasty #2. Jeter, ARod, Mariano, Posada as the veterans, with Wang, Cano, and Joba as the current ‘young guys’, Hughes/Jackson/Montero on their way, a SOLID, YOUNG bullpen, and who knows who else?

    Trades -will- happen. Free Agent signings -will- occur. But there’s no point in overpaying for a rental in an attempt to WIN NOW AT ALL COSTS when you’re harming your future.

    The Yankees could easily add Holliday+Fuentes+Nady+Marte RIGHT NOW if they wanted to, but they’d be shooting themselves in the feet, and setting the farm system back 3 years to do so.

  188. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    The Yanks not making the PO’s this season will not stop anyone from buying seats in that shiny new stadium thats a fact. So if you are pissed about the way they are playing don’t watch no ones lack of participation will cripple the Y

  189. vinny-b July 21st, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    randy hater: Nady? If they will take a package of Kennedy and Sanchez. Fine.

    Pitt is not getting 2 Grade A prospects, for Nady. Not from NYY, anyway.

  190. The Big Sexy July 21st, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    fredo…didnt know he was planning on retiring after this season…that changes everything. In that case, its a very fair deal….more than fair.

  191. raymagnetic ®™ July 21st, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    “2 top prospects? thats nuts, if that is the price for those two whats it going to be for Holliday? ”

    The same I would imagine. There’s not much difference in their overall numbers at all. Bay has a lifetime OPS+ of 130 and Holliday has a lifetime OPS+ of 132. Both are free agents after next year. Bay is 1 year older. Can’t see Holliday costing any more than Bay.

  192. Drive 4-5 July 21st, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    randyhater,

    Very good points. The biggest difference in the Yankee front office is that back then Gene Michael, a great talent evaluator, had a larger say in acquisition matters.

    I’d like to know how much say Michaels now has. If Michaels still has a lot of input, I give Cashman the benefit of the doubt. If not, then the Yanks are making a big mistake and are missing opportunities.

  193. JoeyA July 21st, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    Someone Else-
    I get that. But let’s say, for arguements sake, when our core is gone we have 2 or 3 years of mediocrity. We aren’t in contention come all-star break and are sellers. We don’t have Derek Jeter or Mariano Rivera on the field. A-Rod is older. Now, for those 2-3 years, are you going to pay $50 for the worst possible seat? $6 for a dog and $12 or so for a beer? they don’t charge based on the how the team performs, but who the hell is going to pay that kind of money when our main attractions aren’t here anymore? Jeter and Mo aren’t going to come to every game and “pull the lever” to count down how many home games are left.
    If the yankees want to charge all this money for watching these superstars play, than they should charge less when they r all gone. But we all know thats not happening.
    Like DFox said, it’s about the minority of luxury box owners and sponsors that they care about, and not the every day fan, at least until they want their 1B voted in, than it’s “every fan counts”.

  194. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    Vinny B- Trading Sanchez would be an epic mistake he will be a stud reliever and the Yanks have waited for him for 2 years now they wanna see what he can do.

  195. douche July 21st, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    I am so tired of hearing that “oh we’ll sell tickets”. No. We constantly sell out because the Yankees are built on a tradition of WINNING. On every year being a world series contender. The reason we are the mega team we are now, is because 1998-2004 you were crazy if you said the yankees weren’t going to the World Series, let alone the playoffs. People pay for tickets at a ridiculous price and pay for food at ridiculous prices and all of that is because they expect us to WIN. there is no tradition to build off of if your tradition is fighting for the wild card and losing in the first round. Also, there is no such thing as a “rebuilding” year when you have the HIGHEST SALARY in baseball. Thats just insane.

    Stop talking like we’re the Astros or some middle ground team. Just ridiculous.

  196. The Big Sexy July 21st, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    this is actullay the perfect year to rebuild with the new stadium coming…like al said…the yankees could have gone 162 this year and they will still sell out every game this season and next season….and by after next season all the pieces will be in place to start another dynasty….and the cycle continues

  197. Don Vito A. Bellamo July 21st, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    TKinDC (subtract one from Jete’s GiDP) ….I think he ALREADY has turned into a pumpkin, so actually no. :-)
    .
    JoeyA …IMHO, Ponson is going to implode soon and we should count what he has done so far as a blessing and move on to a REAL pitcher.
    .
    I hope I am wrong…but each time one of those guys toes the rubber, I expect disaster… :-(

  198. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Like DFox said, it’s about the minority of luxury box owners and sponsors that they care about, and not the every day fan, at least until they want their 1B voted in, than it’s “every fan counts”.

    Not true if anything the Yankees are showing signs of thinking about the future, that’s why Hughes hasn’t been traded or Jackson or Tabata (this is part of the blue print for the future that the Yankees will build and it’s extending to low A and GCL and DSL, the organization finally is running like a baseball organization is suppose to.

  199. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 21st, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    As with Rasner, the Yankees have to ride Ponson while he lasts. I don’t think we’ll get many Ponson games like the 2-1 we got last time he was on the mound, so I look at every good start we do get as a blessing.

    I do feel a little bad for Blackburn–Abreu nearly took his eye out last time!

  200. JoeyA July 21st, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    NEWSFLASH
    we sell out stadiums because we have superstars. We have big name players, and our core still in tact from our dynasty years. those players won’t be around forever and i highly doubt guys like Austin Jackson and Robinson Cano will become household names (i know they will be good)a la Derek Jeter and A-Rod. Kids outside of N.Y. and N.J. don’t go to Yankee games to see the Yankees, the whole team, they go to see the 3 or 4 most prominent players. they r borderline celebrities.

  201. whozat July 21st, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    “If you get Nady for 2 prospects, you essentially net 2 picks in the bargaign when you give Abreu the kiss off. Where’s the downside?”

    “two prospects” and “two picks” are not equivalent. You send Kennedy and Sanchez away, and that’s two guys who have a good chance to contribute to the team on the cheap for the next 5 years, holding down the back of the rotation and the late innings. That saves you from having to sign the Freddie Garcias of the world. You get two picks…They probably turn into guys that start down at A ball and won’t arrive for a while. The best talent available when the Yanks draft is usually toolsy high school kids that have high upside but require time.

    And, since Nady’s basically a slightly above average OFer (outside of the career year he’s having), you’ve traded away some useful pieces for a guy who’s going to be kinda average out there. What’s the point?

  202. JoeyA July 21st, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    brandon-
    I completely agree. And i am 100% behind what they have been doing. no complaints here as far as player development and all that. everything we are doing is necessary and great for the team and the organization. i guess all im saying is that nobody is paying these ludicrous prices once the likes of Jeter and Mo, among others, are gone, and they especially aren’t going to pay if we stink for a year or two or three. If we reverted back to the early 90′s team for a few years, i’m sure the price of tickets and concessions will be a main point of arguement for many people.

  203. ANSKY July 21st, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    I still don’t get why Oakland, at 6 games out, suddenly turned into a trade deadline seller. During any given August, NY is in contention at 5 games out.

    Boston isn’t, but NY is.

    Watch the A’s actually make the post season. Only Billy Beane could pull that off.

    Actually, no … Angels are too good for a now-depleted A’s team to overtake, and the mild card is probably coming from our division.

    On another note, I wonder where K-Rod will play if the Angels aren’t going to pony up for him this winter. It would be fantastic to have both him and Mariano, but neither guy will set up for the other.

    When is Papelbon expecting his glorious “its all about me” / “its all about the money” pay day that Sox Nation would only claim was egotistical if he wasn’t signing with the Red Sox? This year? Next year? It’d be too bad for us if the Sox signed K-Rod and let the ‘boner walk. Especially if there were a year where they overlap, but again, neither guy would play set up man for the other.

    Mo would be more likely than the ‘boner or K-Rod to team up with someone else on close opportunities, but still … neither scenario would happen. One could only imagine how devastating a bullpen with both Mariano and K-Rod would be over a whole season though. “Mariano & K-Rod have combined for 88 saves so far this year as they gear up for the stretch run”

    Dream on …

  204. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    douche- Obviously as fans none of us like watching a team in transition but thats not what we think they are thats what they literally are. Its not us trying to sound like the Astros fans or Pirates fans but its fact.

  205. bdog375 July 21st, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    Nady’s name should never be aloud on this site again – HES NOT THAT GOOD.

  206. al arodien July 21st, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    thanks vito

  207. JoeyA July 21st, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    bdog375-
    sorry to break it to you, but he’s better than our current outfielders, aside from Abreu.

  208. G. Love July 21st, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    I so hope Cashman has the stones or is told to make a deal for a quality OF bat so all the prospect tree huggers in here will pull their hair out and cry.

    There are no positional prospects in this organization that will make an impact until Jackson is ready for the majors. That can be 2-3 years from now and he still may not pan out and don’t give me Juan Miranda. You’d be insulting your own intelligence.

    At some point your boy genius GM has to go outside the organization to find talent to put in the field.

    With the free agent market outside of Tex and CC being quite thin this off season, now is the time to deal and help win this season and beyond.

    Your little prospects are years away and in most cases won’t pan out.

    And Ray, you only insult yourself by posting dreck like you did above. I have never advocated selling our garbage for other teams stars.

    In fact, my biggest criticism of Cashman is he doesn’t know how to make a fair trade and that’s why he fails to get most impact players.

    He’s only good at trading garbage and cash for all stars. Let me see him make a fair trade and beat out the other GM’s in the league who consistently make trades that hurt a little bit on both sides.

  209. Russell NY July 21st, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    “The Boston Globe speculates that the slumping Jacoby Ellsbury could be removed from the leadoff spot once David Ortiz returns from the disabled list.
    Ellsbury has a measly .234 on-base percentage over the past month, with an ugly 22/4 K/BB ratio in his last 119 plate appearances. The newspaper suggests that manager Terry Francona may choose to go with Dustin Pedroia and Kevin Youkilis atop the lineup, which was the arrangement to begin the season. Another option would be moving J.D. Drew into the No. 2 spot.”

    So much for “Rookie of the Year” ?

  210. Sigmund July 21st, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    Does anyone have any reliable news about Wang? What’s up with his rehab? Will he be back this year?

  211. ANSKY July 21st, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    NY’s doing pretty good for a team in a transition year. It’s not a total rebuilding year but it’s definitely a transition year.

    If Boston had this kind of year it would be a re-tooling year, not a ‘transition’ year or ‘rebuilding’ year.

    Only the Sox can re-tool ‘cuz they’re nothing but a bunch of … oh, never mind.

  212. Yankee Lover July 21st, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    agree with G love on all points.

  213. Patrick â„¢ July 21st, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    JoeyA, sorry to break it to you, but Nady is a lot better than Abreu is this year.

  214. murphydog July 21st, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    “sorry to break it to you, but he’s better than our current outfielders, aside from Abreu.”

    His season is anomalous – look it up. He’s not this good.

    And at what price? Plus he’s only under contract till the end of this year.

  215. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Sigmund- Wanger is at the very best back in mid September he just got his boot off recently throwing isnt even being discussed. At this point he is likely rehabbing that foot and getting it stronger.

  216. mel July 21st, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Douche,

    It’s called rebuilding, but it should be called reconfiguring.

    They could’ve gone out and taken on another huge, long contract. But they’re already @ $210 because they chose to lock up core players A-rod, Posada, and Mo.

    Instead of adding to the salary, they chose to take a step back and try to integrate 2 kids who won down the stretch in ’07.

    It didn’t work, but we’re back on track.

    Now we’ll have a lot of money coming off the books and they’ll be able to spend wisely to fill the holes. Way better than knee-jerk solutions.

    And for those who say that it’s not our money? If you don’t think that the Yankees aren’t embarrassed that they’ve spent upwards of a billion dollars with nothing to show for it then you don’t know anything about rich people.

    The game has changed, and the Yankees have got to adapt. Can’t be the old dinosaur that keeps throwing around money like a football player in a strip club. Got to get back to be fiscally sane and still put out a winning product. Which they are.

  217. ANSKY July 21st, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    Pete – Any word on that ‘Carl Pavano buys every fan in the stadium a free beer’ night yet?

  218. Russell NY July 21st, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Trade proposals:

    Melky Cabrera for Manny Ramirez
    Brett Gardner for AJ Burnett
    Latroy Hawkins for Brian Fuentes
    Shelley Duncan for Mark Tex
    That guy that got run over by the noob at TB for Russell Martin
    Ian Kennedy for the New York Mets (we need a backup infielder… Wright)

    Throw sh@t at the fan and see if it sticks. Unfortunately, that is so much sh@t that the fan might explode.

  219. El Maestro July 21st, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    To say that Alex is underperforming when he has an OPS+ of 159 (career 148), is not accurate at all.

    Underperforming because he is not projected to 54HR, 156RBI? Oh ok.

  220. Blargh July 21st, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    G. Love: Why do I keep getting this idea from your posts that you want Cashman to make moves just for the sake of making moves?

  221. randyhater July 21st, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    “two prospects” and “two picks” are not equivalent”

    Understood. But the value of those picks is part of the take and has to figure into our calculations.

    On Nady, is he a 29 year old having a career year or is he a guy coming into his prime, like Ryan Church before he got hurt? Hard to know. But he’s better than what we have (by far), he fills a void for next season, and he’ll be in a contract year, which will mean you’ll have his undivided attention. I’d rather have Holliday, but he’s plenty good as a fallback.

  222. murphydog July 21st, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    Nady’s 08 season so far (he could start regressing to the mean any day now) is close to Abreu’s career numbers. But Nady’s usual season is not this good. He’s not suddenly breaking out.

  223. back bench July 21st, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    FYI

    “The biggest piece in the Jays’ trade puzzle remains A.J. Burnett. Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi maintained Friday that he “can’t see” Burnett leaving Toronto because interest in the starter has been next to non-existent ahead of the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline.”

    per http://www.thestar.com/Sports/.....cle/463960

  224. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    More reason to like Milton Bradley :)

    Career .277/.366/.455 an .821 OPS (yeh it looks mediocore)

    Since 2005

    .374/.390/.518 an OPS of 908

    (Oh but he his numbers are padded by Texas, look again)

    In LAD .834 OPS
    In OAK .818 OPS
    In SD 1.004 OPS (that’s one of the toughest parks to have a high OPS in)

    WHY NOT ? IF HE’S CHEAP

  225. JoeyA July 21st, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Patrick-
    maybe this year, but not as a career guy, though he is better than Melky or Gardner career (albeit short careers). Abreu protects A-Rod. i don’t watch Nady on a regular basis so i can’t say much aside from his stats, but Abreu grinds AB’s like its nobody’s business, is good for 6-8 pitches an AB. I can only put Nady above Abreu if i see him make 5 or 6 catches while diving into a wall, than he is better than Bobby.

    On another, more twisted level, and A-Rod Madonna sex-tape is reportedly being shopped for $2+ million. FINALLY!!!! This crap needs to end. who cares.

  226. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    ANSKY- Pavano could afford it he just made 40 mil for sitting on his rear end for 4 years.

  227. nick July 21st, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    Since A Rod came off the DL:

    With RISP: .281/.430/.516
    RISP 2 outs: .267/.450/.567

    TERRRRRRRIBLE lines. NOT.

  228. Glenn July 21st, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    Peter is correct in that the July 31st trading deadline has become an event as evidenced in recent years with NESPN having a countdown special with updated reports.
    GM’s, whether they’re buyers or sellers will work the deadline like chessmasters all looking for a little edge.
    Contract status and how much time a team has control of a player are only some examples of how much goes into a deal regardless of how much a GM wants a player.
    By now every Yankee fans should know just how stealth Cashman is and he never tips his hand.

  229. Lou in SoCal July 21st, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    somebody tell Posada to stop crying about playing behind the plate. You can’t win games if teams are going to steal to get RISP. If he wants to play in OCTOBER, he should worry about hitting and maybe help from that role. Because everyone in the league knows he has a bum shoulder.

  230. bdog375 July 21st, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Nady is 30 years old and has never played more than 125 games in a season.

  231. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Milton Bradley? I want no mention of this name again. He is an absolute nut case why not sign Bonds, or lure Clemens out of retirement. Why don’t we ask Rafael Palmiero if he can still hit the fastball.

  232. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Milton Bradley? I want no mention of this name again. He is an absolute nut case

    Question can he hit, field and run ?

  233. vinny-b July 21st, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    milton bradley.

  234. Rob (the original) July 21st, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    SJ come back!!!!!!!!!! Ignore the trolls and give us your valued opinions again!!!!!!!!

  235. raymagnetic ®™ July 21st, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    MIL-TON BRAD-LEY – clap clap clap clap clap clap.

  236. mel July 21st, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    I know that Abreu made the transition well, but JD Drew admitted after the ASG that it took him a while (the whole regular season in ’07) to get used to playing in the league. That gives me pause to think that a NL player could be the “difference maker”.

    But if we lose Matsui, something needs to be done. Definitely.

  237. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    Brandon- Yes he can do all those things and well. However he is a bad team-mate and cant deal with media criticism that is not good for a Yankee.

  238. William Buckner July 21st, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    Question for all.
    When Ponson and Rasner get replaced – who gets first call?
    Karsten, Acaves, McCutchen, Horne, Kennedy, Ig, or outside organization? When do you see it happening?

  239. mel July 21st, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    Posada has told the Post he’s “likely” headed to the DL. Where are all the DFA Moeller guys now?

  240. Joe from Long Island July 21st, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    Actually, if I’m remembering correctly, Milton was always found to be a good teammate; it’s his temper outside of the clubhouse that got him into trouble (remember that incident in San Diego when the umpire baited him?). Am I wrong on this?

  241. Drive 4-5 July 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    “Most of these corporations don’t actually care about how the teams fare. I would be willing to guess that none of them actually cares. They buy up suite tickets as a gift to clients who come into town and want to do something. It has very very little to do with the team being in contention.”

    That statement could not be further from the truth. Companies are not going to commit to paying $800 per seat 81 games a season to watch the a team that resembles the ’66 or ’91 Yankees.

    Hank made the remark last week that this is New York and these are the Yankees and the customers expect to see marquee names in the lineup. It is what it is. One thing George Steinbrenner understood is that it takes money to make money. The Yankees never drew 2.5 million fans when they werent competitive, never mind 4+ million. Expect the Yankees to go after Sabathia and Texeira this offseason because they need stars to sell seats, plain and simple.

  242. pat July 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    “Posada to the DL, via nypost.com”

    WFAN too. Sweeney will call in after speaking with Girardi.

  243. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    Buckner- Horne if ready is at the top of the list the organization view him on the same level as IPK/Hughes etc. following him I am sure IPK will get another shot either him or Aceves who is a bit older and has done well.

  244. Brandon (Jeter GIDP: *15 even in All Star Games) (Johan HR count: *16) July 21st, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Brandon- Yes he can do all those things and well.

    Then end of story, who cares if he kicks Micheal Kay’s ass, all we want is for him to produce and he’s been doing it since 2005.

  245. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Seriously Posada to DL he has barely caught since coming back how ridiculous.

  246. vinny-b July 21st, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    yes. I like Milton.

    however, it will take a multi-year offer, to sign him. We need to trade for a OF’er.

  247. randyhater July 21st, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    Murph,

    The deal isn’t Abreu for Nady this year. It’s two prospects for Nady, who then takes Gardner’s spot in the lineup for ’08.

    Then next year, you have Nady (lean and hungry in a contract year) instead of Abreu (fat and content in the first year of a multi-year deal) with Matsui back in the lineup.

  248. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    I can deal with Molina’s bat if he continues to gun-down 50% of runners. However a bat is now a necessity not a desire.

  249. vinny-b July 21st, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    randyhater: thank you, for making sense.

    very well stated. Abreau/Nady.

  250. leo July 21st, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    Posada to DL

  251. Al from BK July 21st, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    Brandon- Posada’s season being over has changed my opinion on Bradley. Cashman go get him or someone comparable.

  252. Paul July 21st, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    Take a deep breath DFox. Nobody, including Pete, ever said there won’t be any trades or there should be no trades. All he said is that Cashman is unlikely to be pressured into making a bad trade and he’s not likely to land an unrealistically favorable one.

    When it comes to selling out the new Stadium, they have plenty of superstars already with Jeter, ARod, and Mariano already. Hopefully, Wang will be back. Perhaps they’ll sign CC and/or Tex. But I don’t think there’s anyone available on the trade market right now who will fill seats. What will is a team that wins games on a regular basis.

    Cashman’s record is that, when left alone, he will make acquisitions when the price is right. Abreu was a steal. We paid a high price for Justice (Westbrook has had some good years) but it was worth it since he helped us win 2 WS titles. But we’ve also had some real disasters like Randy Johnson, Gary Sheffield, and Jason Giambi, and most of those were the work of the “get the big name in there now” crowd. Aren’t you glad we didn’t trade Joba for Gagne?

    Right now I expect that Cashman is evaluating whether the rest of this season is worth trading for, as distinct from next year. Yes we’ve won 3 straight, but we have 6 big games coming up right now against Minnesota and Boston and 3 of them are being started by Ponson and Rasner (it’s not exactly fair to blame Cash for that since he isn’t responsible for Wang’s injury). Will Moose hold up? I hope so, but your guess is as good as mine.

    Ultimately, we’ll see. I think Cash will be more likely to be active if the Yanks take 4 out of the next 6. If they lose more than 3, he’ll stand pat.

    Cheers. Let’s all hope we’re watching and blogging in October!

  253. vinny-b July 21st, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    yes. Have to trade for a bat, now.

    either that, or become sellers.

    one OR the other.

  254. OldYanksFan July 21st, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    “Thank you meaning the get Holliday, get Fuentes, get Bay, get Nady fans need to just accept that.”
    ————————————————————
    That is not what he really said. Basically, we will not trade the farm for someone who can only help us NOW. But Jason Bay and Matt Holliday can help us NOW and for YEARS TO COME. In 2010, our entire OF is Melky… IF he’s still around. We hope and expect AJax will be here. Tabata may be a little more iffy. But even if EVERYTHING goes perfectly with AJax, Tabata and Melky, we still need an OFer with an impact bat.

    Hollday make around $10m and Bay $7.5. THERE ARE STEALS! JD and Matsui make $13. One can’t field and one can’t throw. Furthermore, many of our young farmhands ARE trade bait. We have tons of pitchers and very few position players. Cashmna will not give them away, but he will use them in a fair trade to fill holes in the team.

    And our primary hole is an OFer. 1B comes next, but we could have Giambi in 2009 and Montero in 2011. So 1B is not as critical as having THREE OFers.

    Also, Nady is a career 107 OPS+ guy. Holliday and Bay are at 131. There is no comparison between Nady and the other 2. Bay and Holliday are under 30. While Holliday is a bit overhyped because of Coors, he is still a very solid player.

  255. Russ July 21st, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    Milton Bradley of
    1 year/$5.25M (2008)

    signed as a free agent 12/07
    performance bonuses: $0.325M for 400 PAs, $0.45M for 450 PAs, $0.525M for 500 PAs, $0.7M for 550 PAs, $0.75M for 600 PAs
    award bonuses: $25,000 for Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, LCS MVP; $50,000 for WS MVP, All Star; $0.1M for MVP, $0.2M for Comeback POY
    Bradley to donate $25,000 to club charity

    1 year/$4M (2007)
    re-signed 1/07 (avoided arbitration)
    may earn $0.4M in performance bonuses

    acquired in trade (from Oakland) 6/29/07 after being DFA 6/21/07 (Oakland paid $1,360,929 to SD to cover portion of remaining $2.05M due in 2007 salary)

    1 year/$3M (2006), re-signed 1/06 (avoided arbitration)
    may earn $0.2M in incentives based on plate appearances

    1 year/$2.5M (2005), avoided arbitration 1/05
    $0.75M in performance bonuses

    1 year/$1.73M (2004), avoided arbitration 11/03
    1 year/$0.3143M (2003) 3/03
    1 year/$0.221M (2002) 3/02
    agents: Levinson brothers
    ML service: 6.169

    per Cot Deaa’s site

  256. Yankee Trader July 21st, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    Pete

    Excellent review of the trading “deadline.”

    The Yankees can also wait until August, to see if they are still in the race, as most of their high priced FA’s to be will probably pass thru waivers, making a trade possible.

    However my guess here is that they might look to get a pitcher, like a Jarrod Washburn, who will be a FA and would cost only money, some of it picked up by Seattle, plus a lesser prospect.

    Hopefully Cashman will know near the end of July, if this team can make it to the WS. We need outfield and 1st base position prospects ready to bring up to the majors next season,assuming we let go of most of our FA’s.

    Therefore, why not trade Abreu, who would be looking for an extension, and get better developed prospects, than would be available thru the draft of 18 and 19 yo players?

  257. vinny-b July 21st, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    phone the Rangers.

    trade for salty?

  258. leo July 21st, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    Salty or Laird

  259. douche July 21st, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    Mel-

    Thats actually what I was going to say, restructuring does NOT mean we can’t make the playoffs though. It means that we have some weak spots / learning situations (joba, hughes, IPK, even bringing up gardner) to me. I hate the attitude of people saying “we are rebuilding, playoffs aren’t going to happen, don’t sell the farm” etc etc. We have an elite farm system, we wouldn’t be selling the farm to get a guy like bay to protect ARod, making a huge impact on our lineup and keeping us very competitive.

  260. YankeeVIP July 21st, 2008 at 9:10 pm

    two things:

    1. with Cano heating up, do we use him as trade bait now to get a top flight pitcher. you have to atleast think about it if he is going to be 2nd half player only

    2. what really kills with posada out is now damon will dh alot and brett “i cant hit mlb pitching” gardner stays in left.

    we have a pretty big hole at DH now i think, anyone thinking what im thinking… (hello mr. bonds)

  261. TD July 22nd, 2008 at 12:03 am

    “Thanks for the buzz kill Pete. I realize its only the reality of the Yanks going into this particular deadline but what are we supposed to talk about here if you lay out all these pointers ? ”

    um… our current playres, and the game itself?

  262. Carmine July 22nd, 2008 at 3:58 am

    Honestly, signing Bonds makes too much sense at this point. Bonds DH’s and could play the occasional left if Johnny needs a half-day off and you throw Gardner out there if one or the other needs a full day(this also perfectly utilizes Gardner as a plus 4th OF/pinch runner type, IMO). I actually wouldn’t even object to Gardner platooning center with Melky. If nothing else, he’s more patient. Bonds, at worst, probably brings a .400 OBP to the team for league minimum. You really can’t beat that. At best, you have probably the most terrifying power trio in baseball combining with A-Rod and Giambi. It’s really an incredibly low risk/potentially sky-high reward type. I can’t believe they haven’t signed him yet. And as for him needing to get into baseball shape, we were willing to wait over a month for Clemens to get ready and paid him half a country last year to play once every 5 days. With Bonds, it’s league minimum. There’s really nothing to lose.

  263. Brian July 22nd, 2008 at 5:15 am

    just asking but didn’t Nady ask to be traded OFF the Mets a couple of years ago at the deadline

    sounds like a player who likes that Pittsburgh limelight!

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