Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 22, 2008 
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Jorge Posada is back on the DL – possibly for the rest of the season. Hideki Matsui, meanwhile, is trying to avoid surgery. Brian Heyman has the story.
Undaunted, the Yankees pounded the Twins for their fourth straight win.
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The Yankees are 4-0 in the four games Sidney Ponson has started. He is 2-0 with a 4.37 ERA in pinstripes.
Not bad, right? But it’s worth noting that Ponson has allowed 28 hits and walked 11 in his 22.2 innings and that the Yankees have scored 41 runs in his four starts. He’s been mighty fortunate so far.
The Yankees have 63 games left, meaning that roughly 22 of them will be started by Ponson and Darrell Rasner unless the rotation changes. Brian Cashman’s priority should be landing a starter, not a bat.
Rasner faces the Twins tonight.
41 runs for Ponson but jack squat in terms of run support for Joba. figures.
I guess it doesn’t make for such a sexy story when you figure that 30 of those runs came in two games, and 6 runs were scored while Ponson was in the game (18-7). He left his other no decision game with a 1-1 tie in 6 innings. He left with the score 6-0 after 6 innings of the Mets game (Yanks scored 3 runs in the 7th inning). He left the Monday game with an 8-3 lead. So, it’s not like he had to have all of those runs. He allowed 11 runs and in his time in the games the Yanks scored 24 runs. Regardless of how you’d like to downplay Ponson’s pitching, he’s still done his job.
Pete, why would Cash look at a starter when IPK and Hughes arent far away and Wang is an outside chance.
Its on th Offence. This team, has made the playoffs with the the likes of Jaret Wright, Aaron Small, Shawn Chacon, Cory Lidle, etc. in the rotation.
When you consider how strong the pen has been, its the offence thats going to make or break this team. In particular the ability of Cano and Cabrera to heat up.
“Regardless of how you’d like to downplay Ponson’s pitching, he’s still done his job.”
Ponson has gotten pretty lucky. Pete is right, he puts way too many runners on base. If the Yankees expect to make the postseason, they need an upgrade over atleast one of Rasner/Ponson.
Mussina, Pettitte and Wang put a lot of runners on, too. Are they just lucky? As long as Ponson keeps the runs down to less than what the Yankees score and pitches 6 innings, I don’t care if the bases are left loaded every inning
“As long as Ponson keeps the runs down to less than what the Yankees score and pitches 6 innings, I don’t care if the bases are left loaded every inning.”
You can’t be serious. Baserunners allowed per inning is essentially measured by WHIP.
Moose has a 1.24 WHIP.
Andy has a 1.29 WHIP.
Wang has a 1.32 WHIP.
Rasner has a 1.51 WHIP.
Ponson has a 1.65 WHIP as a yankee, and a 1.58 overall for the year.
So no, you can’t just compare Ponson to Moose/Andy/Wang in terms of baserunners allowed and say that escaping those jams is all skill. When your WHIP is above 1.40, you are very likely going to get smacked around because you are putting too many runners on base. Ponson has been a lucky dude. And no I don’t want a pitcher who loads the bases all the time, as you bring up. Who the hell wants that kind of a pitcher? I want a pitcher who gives up the fewest runs, regardless of what the yankees score. Duh, that’s the whole goal of pitching. Going forward, you can’t expect Ponson to keep up this 4.37 ERA with the amount of baserunners he allows to reach base. Moose/Andy/Wang are much much much much better at preventing baserunners than this dude is.
Im not sure why everyone is overlooking IPK and Phil.
Ponson currently has a 1.58 WHIP over 72.2 IP this season.
Here are other pitchers this season who currently hold a WHIP in the 1.55 to 1.59 range with a minimum of 70 IP, along with their corresonding ERAs:
Francis – 5.67
Rogers – 4.62
Myers – 5.84
Burres – 5.02
Hernandez – 5.29
Dumatrait – 5.26
Arroyo – 5.79
Olson – 5.79
Ponson has career numbers with a 4.89 ERA and a 1.47 WHIP. he has been about 10% below league average at allowing runs to score in that time. If you think that all of a sudden he is a helpful pitcher, you are a fool.
Also those career numbers take into account early in his career when he was actually a good pitcher. But he hasn’t been effective since 2003. It’s been 5 years since he’s been a good pitcher. That was also the last year he had a WHIP under 1.50. That is no coincidence.
IPK and Hughes are going to have to earn their way back into the starting rotation. So far they haven’t exactly lived up to their promise. I think they were both rushed and need more time to develop.
Hughes and Wang won’t be back until September and by that time, it might be too late with less than 30 games remaining. Kennedy has to show us he can pitch at SWB before we bring him back. The Yankees have to make some decisions regarding their 4th and 5th starter.
Are you aware of how many ground balls he gives up? He’s allowed more fly balls than ground balls in only two starts this year. As a matter of fact, he’s allowed a combination of more line drives and and fly balls only twice this year. Has he been lucky or unlucky? You figure it out. In the Monday night game, he allowed only two hard hit balls all night abd they were both on the ground singles).
I’m going to have to say that every game Ponson starts which we win I consider a blessing and I really don’t think he can be relied on in the long run, for reasons mentioned. He allows too many baserunners and it’s going to come back to bite him sooner or later.
His only problem is lack of strikeouts. He pitches to contact. He doesn’t give up homers or many extra base hits, and, he keeps runners close….1 stolen base and he limits his walks.
I never said he’d be my first choice as a pitcher, but, he limits the damage. He’s also faced some good hitting teams this year. Minnesota 3 times, Texas 1 time, Cleveland 1 time, Houston 1 time, Mets 1 time and Tampa 2 times. 9 of 13 starts. His team is 6-3 and he’s 3-1. 5 starts of 1 run or less and 7 with 2 earned runs or less. That’s not all pure luck.
Watching Ponson pitch makes for an interesting baseball viewing experience, to say the least!
But he DOES limit the damage and he IS a ground ball pitcher. He’s been able to induce a few dps that help him get out of innings. He’s doing his job.
As for the run support he gets – that’s not HIS fault!
But wouldn’t it be nice if Joba could get some, too? There always seems to be one guy who benefits from an offensive break (remember Randy Johnson?) -out while another seemingly more deserving pitcher starves for run support. Oh, well, that’s baseball.
Morning Doreen. Yeah, It would be even better if Pettitte, Mussina and Rasner could get runs like that too. Pettitte and Mussina would be closing in on 20 wins by now. Exactly right about Randy J. Even in 2005, he had a ton of runs and they complained that he only won 17 because of run support, even though he had an ERA of 3.80. Strangely, these run support pitchers go in cycles. Four and five years ago, Mussina couldn’t by a run.
“I guess it doesn’t make for such a sexy story when you figure that 30 of those runs came in two games, and 6 runs were scored while Ponson was in the game (18-7). He left his other no decision game with a 1-1 tie in 6 innings. He left with the score 6-0 after 6 innings of the Mets game (Yanks scored 3 runs in the 7th inning). He left the Monday game with an 8-3 lead. So, it’s not like he had to have all of those runs. He allowed 11 runs and in his time in the games the Yanks scored 24 runs. Regardless of how you’d like to downplay Ponson’s pitching, he’s still done his job.”
Great info GreenBeret7.
May be Pete can read this and take back all the negativity he spews about Ponson.
The bottomline is for a 4/5 starter, Ponson is great.
Our options before were Kennedy and Hughes. One day they will be good, but relative to what they did this season, Ponson has been great. He did not implode in any of his games and burn out the bullpen. Speaking of hits, sinkerball pitchers relativley give up more hits. Yanks won all the four games he started. Yes, he gets lot of run support. We rather be lucky than snakebit.
Burnett.
The Jays will trade.
Morning GB7 -
Yeah. I remember a couple of seasons ago Mussina could have had about 15 wins by the break but had so many no-decisions. The same for Pettitte last season. And that’s during seasons that the offense was pretty smokin’ otherwise!
I think it’s sort of amusing that between Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy and Joba Chamberlain, there is only one victory (as starter). Who would have predicted that? For Joba it’s obviously that he’s not getting enough run support; but even Phil and Ian could have eked out a victory or two with a couple of well-placed hits with RISP by the offense. I guess someone didn’t like the “Three Amigos” or “Generation Trey” nicknames. Just as well. Now, maybe they hype can die down and if (when) Hughes and Kennedy do get another shot, it will be a more realistic situation.
why all the worry about ponson/rasner in the postseason? THEY WON’T BE ON THE ROSTER!
BBFan, as I said…before Ponson came to the Yanks, he’d have been one of the last 4 starters I would have picked to pitch for them (Livan Hernandez, Steve Trachsel and Bronson Arroyo), but, gotta give credit where it’s due. He’s not pretty to watch, but, he gets outs when needed. It’s almost like he needs the pressure to perform. In the by-gone days, they called it pitching to the scoreboard. David Wells was very much the same type of pitcher, and going back 20 years, Jack Morris. I doubt that I’d start him in a post season game unless somebody held a gun to my head, but, teams this year are 9-4 in his starts. At the end of the season, they don’t pay off on pretty numbers in the standings, only wins.
Doreen, it’s really not much different than last year. The Yanks had 12 rookies win games and 10 won their first games and 22 pitchers won games for NYY. They haven’t had a real 5 man rotation since 2003 when they had Pettitte, Clemens, Wells (all 3 left as FA), Mussina and Weaver/Contreras. Even in 2002, they only had Pettitte for half a season because he was on the DL. The Yanks have been patching together a rotation and bullpen since 2001. That’s why they haven’t won. In 2004, 3 of the 5 starters left as FA and the bullpen was 3 pitchers and nothing else. Finally, they have a bullpen that equal to the late 90s. Maybe next year they’ll have 5 rotation starters all year.
Maybe it’s time to start going to church…..need all the help we can get!
Whatever. This is the year Pavano comes off the bench to shore up the rotation. I can feel it.
Cashman is not likely to pull the trigger on deals until next week. He needs the time through the weekend for final evaluation of what direction the team is headed.
The Yanks won’t take on Burnett’s contract and his opt-out clause after this or next season (I can’t remember which). With the prospects they’d have to give up and for an oft-injured started who has been inconsistent AND might leave right away, he’s a no-go.
GB7 -
Interesting that you should talk about the patched-together pitching rotation. I was thinking this morning that “Mo for 2 and then (brain freeze) ‘the other guy’” doesn’t explain all the success. They couldn’t have had to use that combo every day, or both of them would have been severely depleted by the end of a season. Clearly, the starting pitching had to have been giving them much, much more.
(Starts with a “W” – hate when I can’t think of the name!)
It surely will be a great thing when they Yankees have a definitive 5-man rotation. I think it’s just over the horizon, too. Or that might be my pinstripe-colored glasses.
WETTELAND! (I had to look it up!
)
Just to add to my thoughts, I also thought it was devastating when they lost 3/5 of their starters – Pettitte, Clemens and Wells, all at once. All front line guys. Not easily replaced, and the then the expectations on the guys who did come in were over the top. I think the Yankees are finally learning some patience; now the fans need to, as well – though I think by necessity, most are.
still trying to fill that hole we created when we threw all that money at Wright and Pavano. if i could go back in time…
i don’t know if there are any right matches out there who won’t cost too much or wouldn’t really be that much of an improvement. I love AJ Burnett too. He may cost too much and, as someone correctly posted, I’d hate for him to get hurt AND then exercise his option.
with the Braves falling back in the Division and Wild Card, and Teixeira, Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, and crew coming off the payroll next year, i wonder if they’d blow it all up and start over next season.
if that were a possibility, i’d give them a call and see what itd take to get Tim Hudson to pitch in NY.
GreenBeret7
Jack Morris was MVP in 1991 WS against the Braves and won last game 1-0 pitching against John Smoltz. He won 2 games that series with a 1.17 ERA. Ponson is no Jack Morris.
Victor-This team is in the race, injuries not withstanding. Cashman will try and make deals, and certainly be in on any deals that strengthen the other teams in the AL race, so therefore a deal could happen any time between now and July 31st, till midnight.
Remember, if the team starts fading in August, many of the high priced players and FA’s to be will probably pass thru the waiver wire, and they can still be dealt.
Doreen, for two years it was Gordon and quantrill before Rivera. Last year it was Vizcaino and that Farnsworth guy, before Chamberlain showed up. That rotation was brutal, though in 2004. Mussina, Vasquez, Brown, Lieber, Contreras and Loaiza. How that staff got them as far as it did is beyond me. Had it not been for the offense, they wouldn’t have, especially since Jeter was hitting .187 on 19 May.
Can anyone explain to me what the Friday August 8th game is all about?
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....038;y=2008
If you put your mouse over that date it comes up as ‘The Perfect Game’… Is it some kind of promotion?
Trader, I’m well aware of Morris’ post season games. Just pointing out that he pitched to the scoreboard, as did David Wells. If the game was close, they pitched like every pitch was the game, and if it was a blowout, they pitched to get the outs without expending the energy to pitch a shutout. I did not compare Ponson to Morris. Try reading what is said, and not what you want it to say.
TurnTwo-
Tim Hudson and his family like Atlanta, is signed thru 2009 and has a mutual option for 2010 at 12M, Wouldn’t get your hopes up that he’ll be trade bait.
Ponson was brought in to be a 4, 5 pitcher and nothing more. To that effect, I think he’s done his job. Not every pitcher in the rotation needs to be light’s out whenever they pitch. Obviously, if you can get that, great, but Ponson was a low risk acquisition (all he cost the Yanks was a minor league contract) and was more or less brought in to eat some innings and win a few games.
Ultimately, IF the Yanks reach the post-season, they’ll probably shorten the rotation (3 in the first round and 4 thereafter). If Wang can stage a comeback before the end of the season, you no longer really need to worry about Ponson or Rasner.
If there’s no chance Wang makes it back before the post-season, then I think you make a move. But otherwise, I think the Yanks could just sit tight with what they have. And they do have other pitchers that could potentially step in between now and then to help out — Hughes, IPK, Victor “No not Carlos” Zambrano, and Carl “I’m made of glass” Pavano. All of these guys are coming off injuries so who knows when they’ll be ready or how effective they will be, but I think there’s a good chance that one or more of them will see some action before the season ends.
The last thing I want Cashman to do at this point is panic and pull the trigger on some deal that sends key youngsters off for a half-way decent arm. The only time I think it makes sense is if it’s for a pitcher like Johan Santana, but that deal just was never meant to be and as far as I know, there aren’t any pitchers like him on the market right now.
So the Yanks should just bite the bullet now and hope for the best. If it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out. At least they’ll be loaded with plenty of prospects going into the off-season (for trades) and into next season.
Just my .02 cents.
D-Man, “The Perfect Game” is a movie, so there is a promotional tie-in to the game.
With all due respect to Fractat, it’s very inaccurate to use WHIP to capture a pitcher’s performance when he’s ONLY PITCHED IN 4 GAMES.
Of those 4 games,Ponson’s line:
- JUNE 27 vs. METS, 6 IP, 5H, 0 R, O ER, 4BB
- JULY 2 vs. TEX, 5 IP, 9H, 7 R, 7 ER, 3 BB
- JULY 9 vs. TB, 6 IP,5H, 1 R, 1 ER, 2BB
- JULY 22 vs. MIN, 5.2 IP, 9 H, 3 R, 3ER, 2 BB
Clearly Ponson pitched well against the Rays. He used a lot of smoke and mirrors against the Mets on June 27th, but came through (arguably, the same thing happened against the TWins last night – let’s keep in mind that once the second inning had ended, the Yanks were winning 6-2. And once the 3rd had ended, the Yanks were winning 8-2. By that point, Ponson’s job was to eat innings, not to duel as a pitcher).
Is Ponson the solution? No, he’s not, but right now, he’s not the problem, either.
Should the Yankees look for another starter?
Frankly, I don’t think so. To the extent they need and can get anything else, they should be looking for offense, because they should have the pitching they need by September (just adding Wang will do a lot).
Is there someone on offense the Yankees can pick up that’s worth it?
I don’t know. Personally, I would think a better 1B than Sexon/Betemit would be a good option (especially if Jorge Posada is out for the year), and that shouldn’t be that hard to find (though obviously Cashman knows this).
Maybe a back-up catcher who is better than Moeller (so Moeller can be sent down to AAA), but I looked around at rosters last night, and it wasn’t clear to me that there’s a clear-cut case of someone who they could get.
One a final note – if I’m the Yankees, the thing I’d do to improve the offense is to give Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera a couple of days off every so often and send them down to the Dominican.
The All-Star Break seems to have worked wonders for these young men.
“Wouldn’t get your hopes up that he’ll be trade bait.”
nah, I’m not. havent heard his name out there anywhere either, so its just my pure speculation. but for me, Hudson’s the right type of pitcher to target… you can give up a little extra to get him, knowing you have him thru 2010.
he’d be perfect right now to slot in behind Pettitte and Moose as the #3 on the team, and get Rasner off the Stadium mound already.
GreenBeret7-
Ah, of course. Thanks much.
Sorry Green
Misread your statement and thought you doubted you would start Morris in a post season game unless “someone held a gun to my head.”
for me, i wouldnt count on getting much of anything from IPK, Hughes, or Wang this year. IPK and Hughes should both sit down in Scranton and work on getting innings in, and look back on what they did wrong this season and work on it for Spring next year.
If the Yanks get to the post season and a need for a fourth starter comes up, the Yanks can do what stengel would do. Use a spot starter against the other team’s worst starter until the first sign of trouble, and finish with relief pitchers.
No problem, D-Man.
No, Trader, Morris was like a lot of the old time pitchers who only worried about the wins, not how pretty they were getting there. He was a fine pitcher, especially considering the home parks he had…old Tiger stadium, Metro Dome and Sky Dome…not a pitcher’s park among them.
JRVG
Royals have Miguel Oliva a righty who has been better than Molina offensively and has played well defensively with a
Considering how the Yankees have been burned this year by rushing injured players back into the game, I’d be surprised if Wang even pitches again this year. If there’s even a hint that Wang might not be 100% then I hope they don’t rush him.
JRVG
Should finish reading the Oliva has a
JRVG
Should finish reading that Oliva has a
unless Molina goes down next, the yankees arent making a move for a catcher.
m4rk6-
I don’t think they’ll rush Wang or Hughes back.
Kennedy might get another few starts though in place of Rasner eventually. Might not be a bad thing…
Ponson has been giving up lots of hits and walks all season (and much of his career), not just as a Yankee. I seriously doubt the Rangers would have released him if he had a decent WHIP, no matter how obnoxious he acted. They probably figured he was due for a correction.
I liked the Ponson signing when they did it, but he’s been better than anyone had a reason to expect him to be. Rasner is serviceable, but if he’s bad tonight and Kennedy is good a switch may follow.
Hudson is an interesting thought because I bleieve the Braves are at a crossroads. They’ve been contenders forever, but now they are in fourth place in their division, six games back, eightth in the wild card standings nine games back. Glavine and Smoltz are in their forties and Chipper Jones is 36 and they could decide it’s time to re-tool.
I hope Jorge and Hidecki go ahead and have their surgeries and try to get healthy for ’09. Once that’s done the Yanks should pull the trigger on some RH bat, and look into David Ross as an upgrade at # 2 catcher.
The problem with using the bullpen a lot to cover for the # 4 starter in the post-season is the Yanks’ top three are not exactly innings eaters.
Jack Morris WHIP- 1.296
David Wells WHIP- 1.266
Sidney Ponson WHIP- 1.470
I knew jack morris/david wells, i worked with jack morris/david wells, and you sidney ponson are no jack morris/david wells…
Man, if the Yanks can p/u Burnett I would be really happy.
Burnett, Joba, Moose, Pettitte, Ponson (Wang in September a possibility)
Mariano, Ramirez, Veras, Farnsworth, Robertson, Giese
Damon, Jeter, Abreu, A-Rod, Giambino (DH), Cano, Sexyson, Molina, Melkman/Gardner.
You can win with that team.
_________________
eric in australia
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:30 am
Im not sure why everyone is overlooking IPK and Phil.
_____________________________________________________
Haha!!!
Isn’t this obvious by now?
This was a brilliant move by Butt-hole Mouth. Hey Paps, why does your wife look like Marla Hooch from ‘A League of Their Own?’
http://bostondirtdogs.com/
“The problem with using the bullpen a lot to cover for the # 4 starter in the post-season is the Yanks’ top three are not exactly innings eaters.”
It definitely helps though that we are willing to pitch Latroy in every blowout game and destroy his arm because we are getting rid of him anyway (PROCTOR, THE VIZ)
Hawkins is pitching better since he stopped doing that hesitation after taking the ball out of his glove. He is much smoother with his whole pitching motion now.
He has also been decently effective in the role he is playing.
Idk why Ponson is being debated right now? As a 4/5 guy, what more can you ask for? he gives you roughly 6 innings each start and keeps us in the game. That’s all we wanted from IPK…isn’t it? I sure as hell didn’t expect him to be a 1-3 starter. IF he can keep this up and put us in a position to win each time out, keep him.
IMO,the guy on the hotseat is Rasner. He implodes in the 4-6 innings of his starts. it’s like clockwork. hopefully IPK can get his act together ad fill in for Rasner until Hughes or Wang can come back. If those two aren’t likely to return and IPK reverts to his old self, bring up McCutchen or White, my hope is McCutchen. See what he can give us. they are 25 and 27, respectively. Especially if it’s just a few spot starts until Hughes or Wang come back, why not.
Paging Bronson Arroyo?
**Kidding! Kidding!
I agree that “IF” we get to the playoffs Rasner and Ponson are in the bullpen but getting there is the problem. With 10 games left against the Angles, 9 against the red sox, 6 against the rays, 5 against the Twins and 4 against chicago, that is 34 of the 63 games ( more than half) remaining games with teams that have a better record than we do.Unfortunately the hole we dug ourselves to date requires that our 4th and 5th starters give us wins. Not sure you want to count on that with Rasner and Ponson against those teams unless you think we can always score 12 runs per game. Also by the time Wang and Hughes get back it may ber too late. I think we need another decent starter to make the playoffs now.
86, the Yanks would have three spare starters in Ponson, Giese and Rasner. Even if the put in 2 or 2.1 innings apiece, it would take them to the three main relief pitchers, so it could be covered. as I said, keep them in until the first sign of trouble. I’ve seen worse pitchers start and win post season games. In 1947, the Yanks started a pitcher in a WS game that had a W-L record of 7-13 and an ERA of close to 4.00 (that would be around a 5-5.50 now). His name was Bill Bevens. That game, he pitched a no hitter for 8.2 innings before giving up a pinch hit double to Cookie Lavigetto. Odly enough, neither ever played in another major league game.
***Oddly***
Hate to say this, but i like the layout of the Bostondirtdogs blog. the pictures atop headlines are a nice break between stories. I wish someone threw a brick @ Papelbon’s face and gave him something to complain about. what a little girl
“He has also been decently effective in the role he is playing.”
i think that people just expect Hawkins will be released once Bruney is ready, but id guess Giese would go before Hawkins, esp if Hawkins continues to play the role of long man or blowout bullpen guy.
and the Yankees are not trading for AJ Burnett, nor are the Jays trading Burnett in-division to a direct rival who they are competing with for the Wild Card.
I don’t get the Ponson hate. I’m as much of a fan of the numbers as anyone, but sometimes you have to -watch- the game.
He allows a LOT of contact. And let’s face it, this ain’t the best defensive infield in the majors; a lot of those grounders seem to find holes.
Sometimes, the difference between 3 straight singles and 3 straight easy outs is a matter of 5 feet. D00d’s not getting drilled all that frequently this season, and his sinker has some nice downward movement. Sometimes too much downward movement (low for a ball).
I noticed yesterday that he’s trying to throw that Mussina fastball (shoots in towards lefties then dips back over the plate); Moose is throwing it for strikes, Ponson ain’t. No one EVER swings at that pitch. If he can harness that, and throw it for strikes, those hits could go down (a K looking beats contact with Ponson, IMO).
He ain’t an ace, by any stretch of the imagination, but he’s a serviceable #4/#5 starter, which is what he was signed to be (prorated league minimum, to boot!). He won’t even sniff the playoffs if the Yankees make it.
“i think that people just expect Hawkins will be released once Bruney is ready, but id guess Giese would go before Hawkins, esp if Hawkins continues to play the role of long man or blowout bullpen guy.”
I like Giese as the long man; he was starting in the minors, and is capable of going 5+ if necessary. I don’t think Hawkins is a real ‘long man’. He can eat 3 crappy innings if necessary, but I’d rather cut the damage short.
I am not sure if this has been discussed already and I’m not going to go look for it, but did anyone else notice that the YES gun had LaTroy Hawkins throwing a 97 mph fastball to strike out the last batter in the 8th? Have they dialed the gun up to make Joba’s starts more impressive or something? No way Hawkins throws 97, right?
Wang is done for the year. If you really think he’s going to be back to help the team this year, stop kidding yourself.
AlbanyYankee,
Gameday shows Latroy throwing his fastball at 93-94 last night.
Toronto is out of it this year. They aren’t going to make up 10 games and be in the hunt for anything unless all the top teams lose their rotation and half their lineup.
They are too far back to think about making any kind of run. Burnett is also very likely to opt out of his contract at year’s end, so they will just get draft picks for him. The BJs would trade with anyone who can give them better than what they would get with draft picks.
“Have they dialed the gun up to make Joba’s starts more impressive or something? No way Hawkins throws 97, right?”
no chance. the Stadium gun has been dialed up 2-3 mph easy for the whole season. he’s prob sitting in the 92-94 range.
“Wang is done for the year. If you really think he’s going to be back to help the team this year, stop kidding yourself.”
totally agree. if he does make it back, it’ll be in mid-Sept when the division and WC will prob already been won or lost.
and even if it isnt, he cant be counted on to throw meaningful pitches immediately coming off the injury.
“The BJs would trade with anyone who can give them better than what they would get with draft picks.”
and you think the Yankees are going to give them an offer that will be this good? not a chance.
yea i think geise should stay, hawkins out. geise is a great option for a few innings if rasner gets the boot in the 3rd, or joba’s pitch count gets too high
Someone Else, the reason for the hate is because Sidney Ponson isn’t a pretty name, 10 million dollar a year pitcher. Yankee fans need to realize that not everyone has to be a star to win this thing. Betemit has won two games…Gardner has won two games. If the names win their shares, then the nobodies win a game and so far, they all have. This is one year that the 40 man roster will be needed to win it.
Not that I think that the Yankees will go after Burnett, but I don’t see the Blue Jays balking at making a trade with the Yankees for a rental player.
I think the Yankees might have enough options in house to help cover the rotation. If Rasner doesn’t do well, Kennedy or some other arm will replace him. He is probably on borrowed time.
If the Yankees make any trade, I think it will be to give the offense a boost. Sometimes just getting a good batter in can jump start the other batters in the lineup.
albany, Hawkins has been hitting 95-97 MPH for the last 3 or 4 games, and the ball has moved more. Not sure if it’s because of a change in his motion or what, but, he has looked decent. No way of telling if it lasts, but, if it continues over the next few games he’s in, it might draw trade interest in him.
i agree, if we could showcase hawkins in a few not so close games.. he could interest a few teams really desperate for a bullpen. he won’t get much but who cares.
“If the Yankees make any trade, I think it will be to give the offense a boost. Sometimes just getting a good batter in can jump start the other batters in the lineup.”
if there arent any pitchers to upgrade with, and you have to cross your fingers that some of these other arms are ready and healthy for mid-august, then with Ponson and Rasner still going 2 out of every 5 days, it screams offensive upgrade to me… you’re certainly going to have to outslug your opponents with them in the rotation.
Thanks. That probably explains why Edwar Ramirez is hitting 92 mph with his fastball too.
If you watch Hawkins pitch, his whole pitching motion is more fluid than it was. I think that is helping him be more effective. Of course he isn’t being brought in for high pressure situations anymore, but that isn’t a bad thing for the club or him either.
If he is a mop up man, fine. It saves the other arms for when they are needed more.
The YS gun and the YES gun and all the other stadiums they play at are rarely in sync. I doubt they calibrate them, and a lot depends on how they are set up to clock the speed of the pitch.
I gotta say – there’s one player I would target in trade talks.
However, I don’t particularly care if the Yankees land him.
The Red Sox and Rays are both targetting Marte. The Red Sox have the more dire need – their bullpen sucks.
But if either of them are in on Marte, you -have- to keep them from landing him. And in the end, he could be a type A free agent (2 draft picks if he walks, or resign at the $6M option (too expensive for a bullpen arm not named Mariano)).
TurnTwo, absolutely. If Cano keeps hitting well, one more decent bat could give the whole team the uplift it needs to break out offensively. Missing Matsui and Posada, they do need another bat. Sexson isn’t it.
Hawkins had 5 pitches at 95 MPH and 1 at 97 MPH in the 8th inning. In the 9th, he had 3 pitches at 93 and 1 at 94. His slider was at 87 and 88 MPH, according to Gameday. Draw your own conclusions.
I believe help for rotation can come from Aceves in Scranton. He seems to take an approach like Duescher, 90mph fastball and works in and out. Maybe McCutchen can keep it going cause he’s been better at AAA too.
I wouldn’t count on CMW or Hughes this year, time isn’t on their side.
I’m looking for lightening to stike me for even writing this, but Pavano may also be a possibility.
GB7 -
Hawkins used to be a guy with high velocity and the ability to strike hitters out. That all changed in the last year or two when he became more of a sinker pitcher. It looks like he’s going back to his 4-seam and slider.
Ponson has been great. some people just like to complain. Why dont we compare Sidney to other teams 5th starter.
Hawkins should just go back to throwing gas…its not like his new approach has been working and its much sexier to throw hard….and I know alot about sexy.
My gut feeling (and we’re all going on gut feeling here, so don’t knock me) is that we see Wang in the rotation in September and Hughes with the big club when the rosters get to 40. They’re rightfully going to hit the restart button with Hughes and IPK next year.
I’m liking the unconventional ideas…the waiver deal possibilities, etc. Still too much “big name” talk around here. Really, why is it that this team NEEDS Damaso Marte again? Sure, it’d be nice, but that’s the hole you’d choose to fill?
Hudson, Burnett….these are lazy ideas, folks. There hasn’t been one trade deadline since the days we used to trade the farm in July where we’ve taken on a player like that, and 2008 is going to be no exception. You’re not exactly going to fleece Atlanta or Toronto with bad prospects either. This isn’t David Cone for Marty Janzen and a bag of rocks anymore.
For the millionth time, the big splash will not be now. This team is not going to blow up their offseason and future plan for band-aids. I know there’s finite things to talk about on a blog that goes 24/7 but, unless we enter Bizzarroland in the next few weeks, Tim Hudson and A.J. Burnett will not be in Yankee uniforms in August.
If Cano continues to hit in the mid-.300s through August, as he has for July so far, I move that he officially be dubbed Mr. Second Half.
So anyways anyone know where SJ44′s been? Did Anti-Mussina put out a hit on him? I haven’t posted all that much in the last couple months but I noticed he’s MIA. Did he get sick of the negative Nancys, trolls, whiners, punks, know-it-alls and passive-aggressives? I stay clear a lot now because of those elements. I still take peeks at some posts but can think of better ways to spend my time … I can’t imagine he liked engaging in volleys with them.
“Really, why is it that this team NEEDS Damaso Marte again? Sure, it’d be nice, but that’s the hole you’d choose to fill?”
I don’t want him. I don’t want the Sox or Rays to have him, though.
Hawkins has allowed a run in only two of his last eight appearances, so I like what he’s doing now.
GB7—I sit corrected about the # 4 starter in the post-season, brain cramp on using the # 5 as a long reliever.
Everyone needs to remember that draft choice compensation for losing free agents only happens if you offer arbitration and you can’t do that without offering at least 80 % of the previous year’s salary. Thus I don’t see the Yanks getting draft picks for Giambi ( min. offer $ 18.7 ) or Abreu ($ 12.8 ).
“Why dont we compare Sidney to other teams 5th starter.”
Well … he’s been our 4th best starter so far. Doing better than I expected he would though. No complaints there.
Hopefully he stays out of the trouble that made him become available to the Yanks.
Patrick, I’m just going by the readings from YES and gameday. They’re pretty consistant. The double he gave up would have been a single except for the fact that Span is so damned fast. That was all legs, but, if the game had been closer, Sexson would have ben playing closer to the line and most likely would have flagged that ball down.
I agree, though that Hawkins was always a high power pitcher. It was always that dinky slider that he used to get killed with.
Imagine if Pavano becomes our savior. Cashman might just sign him up for another 4 years!!
It really looks as if we aint doing anything in terms of trades. It’s sort of troubling. I’m holding my breath for every Rasner/Ponson start.
IPK’s most likely a dud.
Wang is doubtful for 08
Hughes may begin throwing BP soon but I doubt he’ll make it and I,m not sure if we want him anyway.
The Yanks have made so many mistakes over the years with pitching it just may be the time we have to pay for them. Missing the postseason with a 200 mil payroll is not going to look too good on Cash’s resume. What was the biggest pitching mistake the Yanks have made since 2000?
I’ve always believed that the Yanks beat the Red Sox in 2004 if Pettite gets 2 of those starts.
Good job by Ponson yesterday. And very nice job by Molina with the good at bat that got the rally going yesterday.
Hope we can take the series, as Boston and Tampa are playing cupcakes.
The days of blocking trades are gone. Thank goodness!
Well, the pictures getting a little clearer. Hopefully, the Yankees can be there in the end:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ml?eref=T1
There really aren’t any realistic upgrades for the Yankees in terms of catcher. So then it comes down to another bat (likely an OF), starting pitcher or a LH reliever.
For the LH reliever, we should be able to get someone cheap at the trade deadline.
I think we’re getting either another bat or a starting pitcher. I think the team has provent that even without Posada and Matsui we can still score runs. And if there was another significant injury in the OF, we could probably go after Bonds. But with Damon/Cabrera/Abreu and Gardner/Christian as the 4th outfielder I think we’re fine. The Sexson/Giambi/Betemit platoon at 1B/DH is fine as well. So that leaves me to a starter.
Pettitte/Mussina are both 36+ and while they have proven their mettle in the postseason, I’m not sure how they will hold up the 2nd half of the year. Joba is fine, likely the ace come playoff time. Ponson and Rasner are serviceable. Wang would be a huge plus if he comes back. Hughes/IPK are unproven at this point and I wouldn’t count on them for meaningful Sept/Oct games.
So, I would focus on a small trade for a LH reliever AND a significant trade for a starter. I think we can get by with the offense we have.
Ponson has been behaving himself so far, so, it looks like everyone’s happy, so far. He seems to be well liked in the clubhouse and he was surprised and happy about the big hand he got from the crowd.
Last night, I’n sure with the 12 days betwen starts and hot weather accounted for him not going as far as he wanted. He said he was unhappy with his control and the number of hits allowed, but, he only said he couldn’t seem to find his spots. He offered no excuses, though. Gotta like the no excuse pitchers.
“Cashman might just sign him up for another 4 years!!”
If Cashman can sign him for $39.95 instead of $39.95 million, I’m all for it.
Ansky….I dont know what Ponsons problems have been with other teams, but the guy has been nothing but class witht he yankees. He is calm on the mound and in the dugout and looks like he gets along fine with everyone. He looks really happy here.
I seriously heard that Pavano will be back by late August and he will pitch for the big club….Im not talking ish, Im hearing ish.
“You’re not exactly going to fleece Atlanta or Toronto with bad prospects either. This isn’t David Cone for Marty Janzen and a bag of rocks anymore.”
who ever said anything about fleecing the Braves for Hudson?
i also said i wouldnt expect to see Hudson anywhere else but in Atlanta, and his name hasnt been mentioned anywhere about being available.
but he’s the type of guy i wouldnt mind sending prospects for, knowing he wouldnt come at just a rental, and he’s a proven, successful MLB pitcher.
it was really good to get a win with over 4 runs scored!
Great win for us last night.
Ponson is getting incredibly lucky, but I’ll take any win the Yankees get.
From Mlb.com today
.
” Oft-injured RHP Carl Pavano, coming back from elbow ligament replacement surgery, could be back this year. In the final season of a $39.95 million, four-year contract, Pavano has made just 19 starts with New York. “There’s certainly a chance for him to pitch in the majors this year if everything goes right,” general manager Brian Cashman said. … Cashman said Posada’s injured shoulder won’t change how the club approaches the trade market. The non-waiver trade deadline is July 31. ”
.
and Girardi is the only liar on the Yankees ? Come on, get real. Pavano will pitch for the Yankees and losing Posada will have NO EFFECT on the way the Yankees approach the trade deadline ? Anyone that believes THAT is truly an idiot.
BRian Cashman thinks people believe what he says or what he says makes sense.
Carl Pavano?Cashman thinks he can calm the Yankees fans by uttering he’s name.But he’s a GM he can’t look desperate.
I don’t think Cashman thinks at all about what people (fans) think about what he says. I really don’t. He always had and he always will put as vanilla a spin on a situation as he can get away with. He is never going to give away any information. It is pointless to judge Cashman’s actions or potential actions on his public words. He knows he’s got to answer at least some of the questions asked of him, and he always does, sort of.
The Big -
I think we’re all hearing the same-ish on Pavano. I would love to see anyone come in and help the Yanks go all the way. But for all the time he’s been paid that ridiculous $$$ for virtually nothing, I feel he doesn’t deserve the possible glory of winning it all then cashing in for a contract after what really amounts to coming back to work for a month or so.
Over the 4 years he’s been paid all that cash I haven’t used all my vacation time from work, which totals a couple months over that much time. He’s only WORKED a little more than that.
On Ponson, of course I’ve never met him or anyone who knows him, but what I understand is that he’s a bit of a drinker and sometimes gets out of control. Not sure what that means or how accurate the stories are but thats sorta what I hear on him. If anyone knows better please chime in.
I think the Yankees need a bat and another starter. However I think there are options within the organization to fill the hole in the rotation. Aceves, McCutchen and Kennedy can all step in fairly soon if Ponson or Rasner falters.
Nobody will convince me the Yankees don’t need a bat after losing Posada and Matsui. I think Nady is a pretty good fit. Right handed hitter, great fielder from one of the corner spots and he’s under contract for another year. With Abreu gone next year Nady can step in for one season until Jackson or Tabata is ready.
Definition of lie: A lie (also called prevarication) is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement with the intention to deceive, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone’s feelings or to avoid a punishment.
So yea, Girardi and Cashman lie. But I don’t see anything wrong with them lying. That is the game they’re in.
I think this will be a big trade deadline for the Yanks and we trade Karstens for Bonds, Burnett, Hudson, Jason Bay, Tex, and Jason Bard.
I think Cashman talking about Pavano as if he thinks NY could actually get some use out of him this yaer could be to help convince other teams he might be worth including in a trade.
If that’s the case I’m happy to hear nothing but good news and stellar scouting reports about his progress in minor league rehab games.
“I think Nady is a pretty good fit. Right handed hitter, great fielder from one of the corner spots and he’s under contract for another year. With Abreu gone next year Nady can step in for one season until Jackson or Tabata is ready.”
Except that getting him requires buying very, very high. He’s a bit above average on offense. He’s a nice player, but you don’t want to buy him NOW when he’s priced like a 130 OPS+ player.
What about Kenny Lofton? He’d only cost money. Depends on how he looks, but one would think he’d be a solid pickup. Can he still cover CF?
Maybe Casey Blake? Neither guy would be a long-term move, but they’d be decent stopgaps.
Posada injured shouldn’t have much of an effect on the trade deadline. What most people fail to remember is that the catcher position isn’t a notorious offensive force, i.e. Boston Red Sox. Call me crazy, but I’m happier now that Molina gets to go behind the plate 90% of the time. He has a better arm than Posada, which, IMO, far outweighs Posadas offensive abilities to Molina. Putting it differently: Molina’s arm and overall defense, along with game calling > Posada’s bat. If there is one position given the most slask for lack of production, it should be the catcher.
IMO, priority #1 is a bat in the outfield. If there is one thing that will kill this team come postseason, it’s runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 or 2 outs and Melky coming up to bat. that situation CANNOT happen. I think starting pitching needs to be assessed, as far as Hughes and Wang are concerned. even if they r both out for the year, we can solve that problem in house, as opposed to the bat/OF situation which we have no viable options in the minors.
Come October, IMO, the rotation should be Pettitte/Joba/Mussina for the first series. it’s smart to have a gas guy going between two guys not throwing gas to keep the opposition on their heels. Also, i feel much more comfortable with Andy on the mound twice in that series than moose or joba.
“Except that getting him requires buying very, very high. He’s a bit above average on offense. He’s a nice player, but you don’t want to buy him NOW when he’s priced like a 130 OPS+ player.”
Well obviously I don’t want the Yankees to pay what the Pirates want for him (rumored they are looking for 2 premium prospects). I’m hoping that their demands come down to something more reasonable. I think everyone realizes that Nady is having a career year and is more like a .800 OPS guy rather than the .900+ OPS he’s been putting up so far.
So yeah you’re right I don’t want to overpay for him but if the Pirates demands come down I think he’d be a good fit.
its funny bc it seemingly always comes back to Bay and Nady at this point.
There was an extended conversation on ESPN radio this morning about sports organizations lying to the media. A Washington Post reporter asked the Redskins GM about the potential for a trade after 2 DE’s had season ending injuries and was told nothing would happen.
A couple of hours later Jason Taylor’s trade was announced.
Belachik lies about injuries all the time and as long as he wins, no columnist is going to undermine his credibility with the team.
I think it unfortunate that Girardi pulled the media’s chain about Jorge – but at the end of the day people root for the team and tolerate the media, not the other way around.
Yesterday Pete pointed out how Art Howe and Willy Randolph became ridiculous through bs’ing the media – I would just point out that they were also ineffective at winning.
Cashman is skilled at saying nothing and taking up a lot of air time doing it. Girardi is ‘inartful’ when he tells whoppers but if he wins he will maintain credibility with the fans regardless of the injured sensibilities of the beat writers.
quote from rotoworld:
According to the Los Angeles Times, “the Dodgers might be showcasing [Andy LaRoche] for a potential trade.”
The newspaper notes that LaRoche may start at third base for the entire series against Colorado, although perhaps Blake DeWitt’s OPS going down to 682 has something to do with it as well.
Torre loves Melky, lets trade him for LaRoche straight up
(in my dreams)
whozat, Lofton actually does make sense, but i doubt Cashman, or Lofton for that matter, go down that road again.
“He has a better arm than Posada, which, IMO, far outweighs Posadas offensive abilities to Molina. Putting it differently: Molina’s arm and overall defense, along with game calling > Posada’s bat.”
That’s your opinion but I can assure you that you are wrong. A healthy Posada is a much better overall catcher than Molina.
Posada injured shouldn’t have much of an effect on the trade deadline. What most people fail to remember is that the catcher position isn’t a notorious offensive force, i.e. Boston Red Sox. Call me crazy, but I’m happier now that Molina gets to go behind the plate 90% of the time. He has a better arm than Posada, which, IMO, far outweighs Posadas offensive abilities to Molina. Putting it differently: Molina’s arm and overall defense, along with game calling
We just lost an offensive weapon in that position, makes it tougher to score runs. I understand your point on defensive purposes and game calling which Posada never has been known for that. If we need production and some pop from the catching position plus defense we might have to attempt to acquire a Miguel Olivo or a Gerald Laird. The Yankees can attempt to deal w/ Texas and get Saltalamacchia who is 23 and at a low price right now.
I was thinking come trade deadline Salta and Bradley would be key acquisitions to this roster.
Torre loves Melky, lets trade him for LaRoche straight up (in my dreams)
Quite the opposite
are we really talking about teams lying? do you know why teams lie? mostly to hide the truth from other teams. The yankees don’t want the Sox or the Rays, or any other team for that matter, to know where they are vulnerable and how desperate they really are for something. injuries especially, lying about players and their situations is mostly done to hide the truth from other teams, so they don’t know your weakness. it’s the same thing as if a trainer for a fighter is asked, “does your guy have a strong jaw” and his response, “no, it’s like glass” what do you think the opponent is going after come next fight? same thing with Posada. if they came right out and said, his shoulder is real messed up, everything he does feels uncomfortable. Other teams would be running MORE than they were, and they would have pitched him differently knowing he isn’t at full power. Cashman doesn’t sit in his office thinking of lies to dupe the Yankee fanbase.
“That’s your opinion but I can assure you that you are wrong. A healthy Posada is a much better overall catcher than Molina.”
Agreed. In terms of catching, Posada is an average catcher when healthy. As a hitting catcher, he is obviously considerably above average. Molina is a better catcher than Posada but his hitting is so poor that it’s really not close.
“Quite the opposite”
What does that even mean.
Torre is a huge Melky fan. He has attributed last year’s turn around to making Melky the fulltime CF.
Anyways, if LaRoche is on the trading block it might be a good idea to try to get him. He’s a righty 3B, perhaps he could transition to 1B. He’s got a good bat and his value is pretty low right now considering his injuries/struggles this season.
“The Yankees can attempt to deal w/ Texas and get Saltalamacchia who is 23 and at a low price right now”
And what exactly are you offering Texas to obtain Salty???
Ray-
keyword “healthy”. of course i’d rather healthy Posada to healthy Molina. you’re arguing for the sake of arguing. I’m saying, Posada’s current state vs. Molina’s current state is no contest. we benefit from Molina behind the plate with an injured posada, despite Molina’s bat. Posada was doing nothing but hurting us with his shoulder, both defensively and offensively. Also, it depends on how u gauge catchers. I love Posada and he is near and dear to my heart, but, with both catchers healthy, Molina still has a better arm, calls a better game, and is all around a better defensive catcher. Posada has the bat over Molina.
If both are healthy Posada is more valuable than Molina and its not even close. Its not like Posada is a scrub behind the plate, he is pretty solid and he has a good arm. His bat is top 3 for catchers. Combine that with his average to above average fielding and he’s one of the most valuable catchers in either league.
Combine that with his average to above average fielding
Can’t do that. He’s average on his good days. Has never been above average…..still your point holds exceedingly true nonetheless.
a couple of things from earlier:
*its very unlikely that burnett would get injured AND opt out of his contract. if he’s injured, he’s not likely to be offered $24M for 2 yrs coming off another injury. he’s only likely to opt out if he is very good, which would be good for whomever gets him in a trade. im not advocating it, just pointing that out. also, he can’t opt out after 2009 only this year.
*i dont know what that ‘perfect game’ thingy is on the calendar, but it sure focused my attention on the fact that we’ve got the angels the first 2 weekends of august. big games there, just ask the redsox.
*i understand not counting on wang this year, but there are 9 days left in july and hughes will be getting in games before august begins, he can have 5-7 starts by the end of august. i’m not saying he’s the answer but he is likely to be available for all of september, barring a serious setback.
*pavano’s coming back from a much more serious injury and a possible comback from him is very dicey, but if he’s available how could anyone say they dont want him on the team? pavano’s a pariah for being injured but the drunken buffon who pitched last night is okay with everybody?
*i think people should get off rasner, he’s doing what he can do its not his fault that he’s the 5th best healthy starter we have. alot of teams have one ‘pot luck’ spot in the rotation that the offense has to carry, usually due to injuries. we have 4 of our top SP’s out. just root for the guy to give us a chance till someone else is available to help.
Bats gotta carry us tonight!
Let’s Go Yankees!!!!!
TK, isn’t there an NFL rule that the club isn’t allowed to discuss injuries during the season because of the betting that goes on. Not sure of the exact reason, but, I believe there’s a gag rule on injuries until just before game time.
“Can’t do that. He’s average on his good days. Has never been above average…..still your point holds exceedingly true nonetheless.”
I disagree. After working with Tony Pena he has been an average to above average catcher.
Wang should be back in September, right? Hughes and Kennedy will be returning soon. Pavano could be back as well. The Yankees are fine in terms of arms.
What the Yankees need is a bat. Not necessarily that will hit for power, but that will get on base consistent and have a healthy slugging percentage. I’m all for signing Bonds. I think you put Bonds in front of Arod and that turns into the best 3-4 combo in the league.
Why can’t the Yankees use 4 starters instead of 5? Studies have shown that the gains from the extra days rest are negligible, and so long as you limit the number of pitches (keeping the pitching stress level low). That gives the Yankees Wang, Petitte, Mussina, and X. Keeping five starters just dilutes things. Shouldn’t they want to let their best pitchers pitch more games?
Pending Trade: “The Yankees are on the verge of releasing Jeff Karstens for Major Leaguers: AJ Burnett, Johan Santana, and Laroche. Toronto gets Karsten’s head and torso, Mets get his legs, and Dodgers get his arms.”
Posada is an average, at best CATCHER. as far as batter is concerned, he is top 3 for the position. IMO, when one says “this guy is a good catcher” or whatever position they play, i don’t takke into account their hitting. it has nothing to do with the position. it’s like saying Giambi is a good 1B because he hits alot. No, he is a terrible 1B, but hes a good hitter. Posada is an average at best catcher, but has an outstanding bat for being a ctahcer, which made him an asset. unfortunately, his shoulder injury became a detriment to his batting, and, without his bat, he does nothing for us. Thus, we are better off with Molina behind the plate than with Posada in his current state.
How are you going to argue that we should embrace Pavano because we embrace Ponson. At least Ponson pitches.
Mark,
They aren’t exactly “fine in terms of arms”. No one knows if Wang will actually be ready by September and there are various reports about Hughes not coming back until as late as September.
You did watch how IPK pitched (or lack there of) right? Not the most reliable cat. At this point, is Ponson or Rasner any less reliable?
Its good to hope that these guys do come back this season and help out, but if the Yankees are going to make a move to help them get to postseason, it has to be for a starting pitcher and an effective one at that.
I don’t know what a ctahcer is, but i was aiming for *catcher
‘I disagree. After working with Tony Pena he has been an average to above average catcher.”
That’s what makes the world go round. We’ll agree to disagree. He was below average before Pena got hold of him and he has improved, but he’s never been anywhere near a guy who comes to mind when discussing top defensive catchers.
I also have to say that I agree with Peter’s sentiments about the lineup. If the top 6 stay healthy and stop underachieving, there is absolutely no reason the Yankees would need to pick up a bat.
Pitching, and only pitching, should be their priority if they plan to be active before the deadline. Other than that, a backup catcher not named Chad Moeller could be helpful too. Not imperative though.
Ponson has made 1/4 of the starts Pavano has made for this team.
Ponson was picked up about a month ago. Pavano has been on the team for 4 years.
Ponson has put us in more winning situations in about a month than Pavano has in 4 years.
Ponson is a God-send compared to Pavano.
Can we please put the Wang talks to rest, he isn’t coming back. Even is he is healthy for the latter half of September, do you really want a guy coming off a major injury to be pitching in very meaningful games, and in the postseason. We don’t know what Wang will give us. We all know what he is capable of, but he has been out for a while. You can’t expect he will go back to old form following some rehab pitching and a start or two in the minors.
posada needs to forget this year and get surgery now.he has hurt us all year,not helped,no power and players running wild on him.he will be ready for 2009 if he gets it done now.the yankees should trade kennedy,tabata,betances for holliday if possible and get an ace for 2009.with cc,wang,joba,pettitte/mussina,hughes they will be tough to beat every single night.move posada to first or dh,platoon molina with another catcher,maybe cervelli,hopefully ajax will be ready in 2009 or 2010 for center field and hopefully brackman will be in the mix,he could be nasty.imagine cc,wang,joba,hughes,brackman after pettitte and mussina leave.
“but he’s never been anywhere near a guy who comes to mind when discussing top defensive catchers.”
I never said he was.. I just think he’s more than “at best average”
i have no problem withe the drunken buffoon pitching for us. and i’d have no problem with pavano pitching for us either. but saying that you dont want him to help out the team because he’s been almost a total loss to this point is ridiculous.
Bru-
1. Posada is a catcher. He has made it clear he only plans to be a catcher. Molina isn’t an every day catcher for a full season, and you can’t go into a year planning to platoon for the catching position. you need stability in the catching role.
2. A-jax is not going to be an everyday CF in ’09.
bru,
Assuming we get CC. Doesn’t sound like it is a lock at all.
And I have to request that people stop hyping up Phil Hughes until he actually finds success consistently. He has been awful in the games he’s pitched in this year, injured or not.
The Big Three doesn’t exist. We got the Big One in Joba.
GB –
Sry I didn’t see your comment until now. Because of the huge amount of gambling – NFL teams MUST disclose injuries. The idea is that if you don’t disclose, then an operator could bribe someone to get inside info.
At least that is the theory.
“A-jax is not going to be an everyday CF in ‘09.”
I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point he is the everyday CF. My guess is he’ll be in AAA fairly early next season. If he does well there he might get called up.
i agree that we shouldnt go get a bat for just this season, but if a guy becomes available who could take over RF the next couple of years you’d have to consider it.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point he is the everyday CF. My guess is he’ll be in AAA fairly early next season. If he does well there he might get called up.”
Rotoworld recently posted their Top 150 prospects and Jackson was at #13 with an ETA of June or July 2009. He’s really developed his game this year, perhaps beyond the expectations of even the Yankees.
Tabata’s prospect stature on the other hand has tumbled in the the Rotoworld list and in BA, who listed him among the year’s five most disappointing prospects.
Patrick-
I hope you’re right because I like what he brings, but i think the yankees have learned their lessons with bringing guys up early. Damon in LF and it seems they r sticking with Melky in CF. If we don’t resign Abreu, A–Jax is an everyday possibility earlier than i would expect, but if we do resign, i wouldn’t count on it. Obviously, A-Jax playing is largely based on Abreu being resigned. Or if Melky keeps up his current lack of offense
I realize Rasner is pitching tonight, but I’m still excited as my friend(has some good connections) nabbed us tickets in the YES Network Suite behind home plate. Needless to say, it’ll be a unique experience at Yankee Stadium I’ve never had.
I’m psyched.
tabata’s a wash this year but is very young and was over his head at aa. give him time and maybe some good fall ball this year and he can right himself quite quickly i think. he’s got tools but is immature.
remember, its not about how high a guy can rank in a prospect poll, its about moving up and contributing to the major league team and he’s still got a long way to go and plenty of time to get back on track.
“I don’t want him. I don’t want the Sox or Rays to have him, though.”
…and that is NEVER why you make an acquisition. you make acquisitions to improve your own team, not based on what someone else might do. when you do that, you wind up with Jose Canseco sitting at the end of your bench with nothing to do with him and a roster spot taken.
worry about the New York Yankees, not the Boston Red Sox or the Tampa Bay Rays.
Russell, I like your thinking. Sell high on Jeff Karstens’ huge head.
Disagree Y’s Guy. As much as Jackson has exceeded all expectations, Tabata has similarly come well short of his. I agree the Yankees made a mistake having him in AA when he wasn’t ready, but he went backwards this year and that’s not a wash. I also agree that he can still rebound, but I’m not as optimistic about him as I’ve been in the past.
“who ever said anything about fleecing the Braves for Hudson?
i also said i wouldnt expect to see Hudson anywhere else but in Atlanta, and his name hasnt been mentioned anywhere about being available.
but he’s the type of guy i wouldnt mind sending prospects for, knowing he wouldnt come at just a rental, and he’s a proven, successful MLB pitcher.”
i was probably speaking in response to someone else but, yes, it’s hard to argue with what you’re saying.
Fredo-
Thanks for the article. we got some guys in there. Melancon and McCutchen are looking promising. Very excited about the future. We NEED to find a good SS prospect
I may get killed for this, but i think, een though he is very young, we should sell high on Tabata. having character issues at A and AA is never a good thing, regardless of how well ur playing, and he isn’t playing very well. i’m not making any trade proposals, but a Tabata/Kennedy/White or Marquez package could give us something
Thoughts:
Trade Abreu’s 16M contract now to a contending team, looking for outfield/hitting help [Mets,Dodgers,Diamondbacks,etc.]for prospects. Spin off this deal with a deal for Nady to play RF this year and have him locked up for 2009.
Either trade for Bengie Molina now or in offseason, to share catching duties with his brother.
Posada becomes your 1st baseman for 2009 season, and backup catcher, dropping Giambi’s 23M contract.
Trade for Ryan Spilborghs of Rockies to play CF, move Melky to left and have Damon DH rest of this season.
Get Jarrod Washburn a lefty from Seattle and a FA 2009- will cost next to nothing as Seattle will pick up most salary, based on level prospect. Drop Rasner.
Bruney back soon, dropping/trading Hawkins.
If Will Ohman of Braves becomes available, reasonably, trade for this lefty reliever.
These are just some ideas throwing out that might enable the Yankees to get younger, still compete for this year and beyond, allow them to free up monies for 2009, remembering the 2009 FA class is weak in position players.
Russell— Do you really think your inane trades proposals are funny?
the Yanks priorities for improvement should be:
1. RH hitter who can play LF or RF
2. Upgrade at # 5 starter
3. Upgrade at # 2 catcher
4. LH reliever
The best guys I can see being moved would be Horne, Kennedy, Cox, McCutchen, Miranda, Gonzales, Bruney, Britton and Ohlendorf.
Think we can get some decent players for those guys?
It still lets us protect Joba, Hughes, Ramirez, Veras, Robertson, Melancon, AJax, Tabata and a few others
Kenny Lofton? Yeah, that’ll get the Yankees over the top! A 41-year-old outfielder who hasn’t played all year, hits lefthanded and has no power.
The NFL fines teams huge $$$ if their injury reports are inaccurate. Players are listed as Probable (75% likely to play), questionable (50%), doubtful (25%) or out. Anyone below the 50/50 level who plays the team is required to explain… unless it’s the Patriots.
86w183
Would be interested in your comments about my 12:22 post.
Noticed Washburn pitched fairly well against Boston last night, giving up two runs.