Two chances taken, one pays off
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The Yankees almost had no choice but to retain Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera last fall, even for the large salaries and multi-year contracts they commanded. There were no replacements available for them and taking away his closer and catcher would have been unfair to Joe Girardi.
Rivera has been worth every penny so far. He has somehow managed to have what may be his best season at the age of 38. He has become a mentor to players like Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras, helping turn them from AAAA players into effective relievers.
But make no mistake about it, the Yankees will sweat out the next two seasons hoping Rivera stays healthy. Because they have a nightmare on their hands with Posada.
Here’s what Will Carroll wrote today for Baseball Prospectus:
There continues to be some question about how Posada’s situation has been managed. He appears to have tried to play through it, with Joe Girardi not ‘allowing’ Posada to play through pain. Yet Posada told the press that “it hurts to throw, and I can’t catch like this” on Monday. He can hit, but if his or the team’s insistence on catching has caused an exacerbation, it’s clear that this was mismanaged. For a team willing to sign Richie Sexson, playing Posada at first base or designated hitter should have been an option. If Posada elects to have surgery, he should be able to return, though the impact on his throwing will be seen well into 2009, raising these same questions again.
Regardless of who is at fault, Posada has a significant injury. He has tears in his labrum and rotator cuff and will have them examined further today to determine how severe they are. At his age, it could take 6-8 months to return to playing condition. Always add time to what the team says.
The best case scenario would have Posada healthy enough to play once the 2009 season starts. But any sort of setback extends that date. Beyond that, his throwing will be compromised.
Now the Yankees have an injured, aging catcher on their payroll for three more years at $13.1 million a year. Meanwhile the best catchers in the organization are in Class A ball. Sure, Posada can play first or DH. But he was a great hitter for a catcher. He could be average at those positions and the Yankees need better than that.
Nobody’s at fault here. You roll the dice with those sort of contracts. The Yankees are 1 for 2 so far and holding their breath.
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on Tuesday, July 22nd, 2008 at 12:28 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Any chance they can deal Kennedy for young-ish MLB ready catcher?
Maybe Iannetta on the Rockies or Saltamacchia on Texas?
Once it became obvious that he was helping no one by being on the 25 man roster, they should have pushed him to surgery. As is, instead of having it at the beginning of 2008, with a full 12 months to recover, they’ll be crossing their fingers that he’s healthy for 2009.
I’m happy with Molina’s game-calling/defense, but he really can’t hit a lick.
Do the Yankees try to land Bengie? Heh.
“Any chance they can deal Kennedy for young-ish MLB ready catcher?
Maybe Iannetta on the Rockies or Saltamacchia on Texas?”
Doubtful. The Rockies would want Kennedy for Fuentes. Iannetta is much more valuable than Fuentes.
Laird/Torrealba/one of the Nationals’ crappy guys are probably all that are ‘available’.
I think it’s a little early to decide that Posada’s contract is a disaster. Just look at Beltran’s contract. In the first year, it looked like a disaster, but since then he’s been one of the best CF in the league.
If Posada can come back next year and be relatively healthy (even if his arm is not 100%) then it will still be a good deal, and a year off from catching might help the last year of the deal not look so bad.
Posada is a person who works out hard. He has stayed in very good shape. While it will take some time to recover from this shoulder injury, it would make the most sense to shut him down now, have him get the surgery, and allow him more time for rehab.
Its a gamble, but every player out there for the decent sized contracts are a gamble. A career ending injury can happen to anyone.
I still think it was the right move to make in retaining Posada. He will work hard to be in shape when he can return.
That’s 100% true, but there were no other options. They could always go after a benji molina or gerald leard type, carry 3 catchers and give posada some 1b or DH time in the future.
One way or another, they will need someone to keep the seat warm until youth catches up.
It’ll be interesting what this mean for the Red Sox and Veratek going forward.
“Any chance they can deal Kennedy for young-ish MLB ready catcher?
Maybe Iannetta on the Rockies or Saltamacchia on Texas?”
Nope.
What about Doumit in Pittsburgh?
They need to do SOMETHING…
“Once it became obvious that he was helping no one by being on the 25 man roster, they should have pushed him to surgery. As is, instead of having it at the beginning of 2008, with a full 12 months to recover, they’ll be crossing their fingers that he’s healthy for 2009.”
Isn’t this what they did? They tried to see if he could recover and help the team, and now it’s apparent he can’t so he’s headed for surgery.
great post pete. you don’t get that kind of balance and reason on ESPN or talk radio.
To say the Yankees are 1 of 2 on these two contracts is kind of jumping the gun. What happens during the last three years of this contract remains to be seen.
Furthermore, BP and Will Carroll are a great resource for the baseball fan, but that doesn’t mean they should be taken as gospel to how a ML team should proceed with their players.
Maybe Iannetta on the Rockies or Saltamacchia on Texas?â€
Nope.
Ray Saltalamacchia is having a bad season his stock is low, there is a chance he can be acquired, the Rangers love Gerald Laird and his defense behind the plate, they’d deal Salty since they have Ramirez and Teagarden as back up options.
“What about Doumit in Pittsburgh?
They need to do SOMETHING…”
Why in the world would the Pirates trade Doumit?
Start with Hughes+Jackson, and work from there.
“Ray Saltalamacchia is having a bad season his stock is low, there is a chance he can be acquired, the Rangers love Gerald Laird and his defense behind the plate, they’d deal Salty since they have Ramirez and Teagarden as back up options.”
For some reason, I don’t believe the Rangers are going to trade Salty cheaply.
That’d be like selling Hughes for a couple of B level prospects. Ain’t gonna happen.
“For a team willing to sign Richie Sexson, playing Posada at first base or designated hitter should have been an option.”
It’s obvious Will doesn’t watch Yankee games. There was one 7 game stretch where Posada didn’t catch at all. Posada then started to act indignant about being a catcher and not a 1B. Seems like Girardi would have been damned any which way he would have played out the situation.
Since this such a serious injury it might not have happened overnight. Does this mean Posada knew abt this injury when he signed his new contract with Yanks and hid the injury? Something is fishy. Posada deserves every penny of the contract even if he is never healthy again through his contract based on what he did as an Yankee so far but not what he will be doing down the stretch.
3 words: That is life
“Ray Saltalamacchia is having a bad season his stock is low, there is a chance he can be acquired, the Rangers love Gerald Laird and his defense behind the plate, they’d deal Salty since they have Ramirez and Teagarden as back up options.”
Brandon,
I know you think this is a fantasy league but it isn’t. Jon Daniels also isn’t stupid he knows what he has. He’s not trading Salty for Kennedy straight up. He’s also not trading Salty and Bradley for a poo poo platter of Yankee pitching prospects no matter how much you want to believe that Salty’s stock has fallen.
“Since this such a serious injury it might not have happened overnight.”
Muscle tears can happen at any time, pretty much. Especially in cold weather like the Yanks (and many other teams) played in ALL April. You don’t get all the way loose, it’s cold out, you throw as hard as you can to 2B right out of the gate…sometimes it just happens.
NYY: from what i understand, he damaged the shoulder at home, in the (cold) toronto series.
Chris July 22nd, 2008 at 12:35 pm
I think it’s a little early to decide that Posada’s contract is a disaster. Just look at Beltran’s contract. In the first year, it looked like a disaster, but since then he’s been one of the best CF in the league.
If Posada can come back next year and be relatively healthy (even if his arm is not 100%) then it will still be a good deal, and a year off from catching might help the last year of the deal not look so bad.
I completely agree Chris. Especially after the year Posada had last year, how could we NOT sign him? Players get hurt, thats how it is. Posada is a trooper and could easily come back next year and be fine. Pete, did you not just say this off season when we signed him that it wasn’t really like signing an aging catcher because he hadn’t caught all his life? You seem real eager to jump on the pessimistic train.
What i dont understand is that Posada complains about how he can’t catch but then bitches about being played at first base, which forces Girardi’s hand to play him behind the plate the next day. Whats up with this picture?
raymagnetic: Texas needs pitching prospects. We have pitching prospects. It is a match.
I don’t think this is something that Posada was hiding when he was going for his contract. He was quite upset about it and appologized to the Yankees and fans over being hurt. If that is someone who was hiding it, he did a very good job of acting, which we’ve never seen before from him.
Some of you guys need to get real. The Rangers are not giving up Salty and why in the world would the Pirates trade a young, under control productive catcher like Doumit?
The other teams aren’t there to fix the problems of the Yankees.
And if you want good players, you have to give up good players like Cano, Jackson, Melancon, Hughes or guys like that. The other teams aren’t stupid.
Jessica: Pride.
And we may all, be guilty of it.
Again, a pre-mature conclusion. Marino could blow his arm out tomorrow and Jorgie could have a great back end of the deal.
And again with the money.
Number 1, who would they have signed to play catcher or close with that money last year? Gagne? Barajas?
Number 2, as far as baseball goes, the Yankees essentially have an unlimited budget. I can’t think of one occasion where the Yankees did not sign a player or make a move because of money. If that day ever comes, then I will start worrying about how they send their money. Until then, I don’t care one bit how much they spend on anyone. I care about results.
It is clear catcher is now a “need” in the days running up the trade deadline. Not just for the rest of 2008, but possibly a significant portion of 2009 as well.
I’m not saying that Kennedy is all we would offer, but asking if there is any chance that a package starting with Kennedy and including more prospects would get it done for a decent youngish catcher? The package make sure the Yanks are not giving up 3-5 “untouchables,” whoever they might be.
the Rangers love Gerald Laird and his defense behind the plate, they’d deal Salty since they have Ramirez and Teagarden as back up options.
Rangers will be seeking a lot for Saltly, no matter what. Catching is a black hole position and they have some. Ramirez, by the way isn’t likely to make it as a C. He can rake, but his defense leaves a little to be desired. Teagarden will end up being their everyday guy IMO.
OK I post this again…Since when are teams flocking for Milton Bradley ? his stock is high but it is actually low because
1. His temper
2. FA after this season
3. health concerns
Salty is having a bad year his stock is low, he’s hitting .212, he’s having runners run and steal at a 83 % clip, his stock is low and obtainable because of Gerald Laird(who Texas loves), Max Ramirez and Taylor Teagarden.
To say Alan Horne, Ian Kennedy, JB Cox, Kevin Whelan and Jairo Heredia for Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Milton Bradley is impossible would be very far fetched.
I think Girardi and the Yanks have handled Jorge about as well as you can. When a guy has busted it for more than a decade you give him every opportunity to overcome his shortcomings. He earned that chance.
It’s obvious now that he can’t do it and the surgery should come ASAP. Ditto Matsui. I’ve had knee issues and if draining fluid one time doesn’t end the problem you have structural issues that MUST be repaired surgically.
Jorge should be healthy by March, but the Yanks should try to acquire a better # 2 than Moeller. David Ross of Cincinnati makes sense because he’s a part time catcher who is expensive by Cincy standards and he has some power.
on the upside, at least the possiblility of Texeira signed long-term, is less likely. NYY may need to keep 1st Base/DH open for 3 years of Posada.
Jessica, he probably didn’t like being given a role he didn’t want. He knew he would need surgery to correct this, he even talked about it. Maybe he knew that his time playing this year was limited and didn’t want to be moved to a position he didn’t want to play.
He is a fighter, and was trying to fight through this. It didn’t work. By voicing his opinion he might have helped speed along this decision to get the surgery.
“raymagnetic: Texas needs pitching prospects. We have pitching prospects. It is a match.”
Sure the Yankees have prospects. Right now the best ones are Hughes, Kennedy, and probably Zach McCallister. I think it’s take a Hughes plus something else to get Salty.
If were talking about Salty and Bradley then I think that mean Hughes and AJax. I could be wrong but I don’t think so.
“I know you think this is a fantasy league but it isn’t. Jon Daniels also isn’t stupid he knows what he has. He’s not trading Salty for Kennedy straight up. He’s also not trading Salty and Bradley for a poo poo platter of Yankee pitching prospects no matter how much you want to believe that Salty’s stock has fallen.”
So, Kennedy, who was ranked better as a prospect than Salty, couldn’t be dealt in a straight-up deal for him, even though Texas has numerous close catcher prospects and has run into some trouble with Salty over the season, and also needs pitching desperately?
I’m not saying that it would work (frankly, I’m not sure the Yankees would do that deal), but it seems like you’re applying a double-standard. Salty and Kennedy are in similar situations and have lost value over the season, but apparently Kennedy isn’t worthy to lick Salty’s boots.
“It is clear catcher is now a “need†in the days running up the trade deadline. Not just for the rest of 2008, but possibly a significant portion of 2009 as well.”
i completely disagree. the yankees have a catcher, and a backup, who have proven to hold some value to the everyday lineup. just heard a stat where the Yankees staff has a ERA which is over a full run lower when Molina catches than Posada.
they dont need a catcher. if anything, they can replace Posada’s production with a LF or a CF who can hit regularly, or a starting pitcher to replace Rasner. thats it.
you can also throw in Brad Suttle who Texas Rangers fans for some reason love. (But hey I’m not the GM I only propose possible deals)
there are some possibilities out there for another catcher.
benji is one and probably wouldn’t cost what texas would want for salty. barrett from san diego is another. he’s a decent hitter and catches a good ballgame. just keep him away from zambrano. plus, barrett and wolf, for igawa and a prospect or two could be all it takes to shore up two gaping holes.
Thank You Simon B.
Brandon: i know. However, the readers (and authors) sh*t on some of these prospects, because they don’t know them well.
Vinny-b, I don’t see Posada settling to play 1st base. DH maybe, as long as he still has a back up role of catcher if he can’t come back all the way from surgery.
benji is one and probably wouldn’t cost what texas would want for salty. barrett from san diego is another.
And neither of them will have the future Salty can have.
they aren’t going to shell out prospects right now for a young catcher
they are going to fill some holes in the rotation and maybe add a complementary bat, but nothing huge.
this is a year not to make rash decisions, brian cashman has proven this time and time again. the team continues to stay within the race with nobodies handling the 4 and 5 slot in the rotation and a bunch of “who’s that guy?” in the pen aside from rivera and farnsworth.
have some faith in brian cashman, has he made mistakes? sure. but you point back to the bobby abreu deal and see how well that worked out. something is bound to happen, most fans just aren’t patient enough to wait for it.
Hasn’t Mo said something like if the Yankees won the World Series that he’d consider retiring while on top?
That aside, the Yankees had to resign Mo and Posada. No one knew that Posada, who’s never been on the DL before this season, would get hurt.
If anything, after last season, people should have been more worried about Mo!
How about LaTroy Hawkins, Ian Kennedy, and Melky Cabrera for Joe Mauer and Fransico Liriano.
I’m sure the twins will do it since from reading here everyone is just willing to help us out.
“I’m not saying that it would work (frankly, I’m not sure the Yankees would do that deal), but it seems like you’re applying a double-standard. Salty and Kennedy are in similar situations and have lost value over the season, but apparently Kennedy isn’t worthy to lick Salty’s boots.”
the value a good to great offensive catching prospect has is greater than a pitching prospect who projects to be a 4/5 guy in a rotation.
and while the Rangers need pitching, correct me if i’m wrong, but they have a bounty of pitching prospects that could be ready in the next year or 2 to begin to make an impact. you could prob argue at this popint that the rangers pitching prospects are overall better than the yankees, no?
so just because their pitching stinks this year doesnt mean they need pitching… they just need the pitching they have to develop, which is exactly what the yankees need to do.
vinny-b they’re Yankees prospects and are cost controlled therefore they must suck, it just has to be that way.
yes. When Posada batted .338 last season, he made it impossible, for NYY to not re-sign him.
It’s not that Kennedy isn’t worth his Salt (pun heavily intended), but his value isn’t at the same level as Saltalamacchia’s, regardless of his poor numbers this year and Texas having other catchers and all that jazz. Frankly, a projected 4th starter is NOT the same value as a projected major-league catcher, who is a switch hitter that will hit for power. Right now young major league hitting is worth more than young major league pitching because there is a dearth of young pitching and not as much young hitting. Trading Bradley is one thing, and concocting your dream scenario trade proposals for Bradley is fine…but to think Texas is also including Salty in the same deal, or trading him for IPK, is off base, bottom line.
the value a good to great offensive catching prospect has is greater than a pitching prospect who projects to be a 4/5 guy in a rotation.
and while the Rangers need pitching, correct me if i’m wrong, but they have a bounty of pitching prospects that could be ready in the next year or 2 to begin to make an impact. you could prob argue at this popint that the rangers pitching prospects are overall better than the yankees, no?
No you can not make that arguement, the only SP prospect who is near ML ready and has top of the rotation outlook is Neftali Feliz he’s in AA, Alan Horne is in AAA, Ian Kennedy can help a ML team, JB Cox is in AAA, Whealan is in AA… The Texas staff is nowhere near the Yankees depth. While I agree impact bat at C is more important than 4/5 of the rotation John Daniels is a very impatient man, Nolan Ryan is the patient one but even he has to make some moves for ML SP that is decent and BP help.
brandon, salty was the main piece of that texiera deal, and has a lot of potential. they don’t expect him to be something incredible just yet. and bradley is an all star who has had no problems this year with the team (which obviously doesn’t include broadcaster, but even in that incident the rangers had his back). And he looks quite healthy to me.
you can rationalize them both down all you want, but thats how the rangers are going to look at it.
Doug (NY): Jose Molina has a ridiculous 49% caught stealing rate but an equally ridiculous .573 OPS as a batter. Is he doing more harm than good as the Yankee full-time catcher now?
SportsNation Rob Neyer: (12:44 PM ET ) At the moment he’s better than the alternative, right? But if the Yankees can find a catcher who actually hit a little, they should give him the job and save Molina for Sundays and late innings.
but he went 3-4 last night!
We don’t need to trade for a catcher.
It makes me laugh that all of you are ready to empty the vault for a young catcher but not for a stud OF or starting pitcher.
Molina can handle the next 2 seasons and give good defense with little offense. Posada should get healthy by next season and you play him like a back up if he can throw.
His contract looks like it might be another albatross and I almost think the Yanks should have called his bluff and seen if he was going to go to the Mets for the guaranteed 4th year.
While we would have no immediate replacement, they could have went with Molina and found a backup to split time with him like we have now.
What is tough to take about the whole Posada contract is Boston is facing the same decision with Varitek and you know they will offer him a year. Two years max. And he’s their captain. They’ll also get a regular catcher to split time with him by next season.
Only in Yankeeland we end up locked into Posada for 4 years.
There’s a good chance he won’t be able to catch anymore if he doesn’t respond well to surgery.
And anyone thinking he’d be a great 1b/DH is deluded. His offensive numbers are poor for a regular 1b/DH. His defense at 1st is worse than Giambi. His value is as a catcher.
I love Jorge as a player and I hope he rebounds and can catch 50% of the games next year with Molina, if he can’t, this is going to be a problem for the next 3 seasons since i don’t see him taking the diminished role well.
So they’re on the hook for $40M for Posada. What’s the big deal? They can more than afford to pay him regardless of whether or not he plays.
I feel like Cashman could/would offer up anyone outside of Cano and maybe Hughes to trade for a decent young-ish catcher.
Any of the other young players should be in play. It is not like the team would trade for a washed up rental, it would be a young player in return, so outside of Hughes (I feel like Cashman’s fate is somewhat tied to his development) and Cano, the team should not be averse to using their resources to improve the squad.
In Posada we don’t have the second coming of Pavano. No way.
I sort of expect him to be brought back slowly the first half of next year. Opening day he could be in good enough playing shape but what I’m hearing is that it would still be an optimistic time frame for his arm to be even close to 100%. His bat could be back to 100% in about that time, but his arm won’t be.
Maybe this time next year it could be close but it wouldn’t surprise me if it takes until 2010 to really be 100%. Just my guess.
Still, for all he’s done since he came to the Yanks, he could sit out the next 3 1/2 years and still never become the enigma Pavano has become.
If Cano, Cabrera & Abreu can hit for the whole second half, Molina’s .227 bat will be less of a hole in the lineup and his defense would make up for that shortcoming. For Molina’s defense I’d be OK with that compromise on the catcher’s bat, but those three other dudes have gotta hit.
Eventually it may turn out that Posada may have to split time with Molina (and/or the DH & 1B) but that’ll be something to deal with as Posada’s arm recovers to whatever extent it eventually does.
I think Molina’s found himself in a position to lock in a contract extension through the end of Posada’s contract.
I really don’t get how the Yankees can be accused of mismanagement when Posada was saying just (to anyone who would listen) that he was angry he wasn’t catching daily. He was the one who insisted that he was a starting catcher who was healthy and not a DH or a first baseman. Thank goodness the Yanks didn’t listen otherwise, they could have released Moeller again.
Andrew they’d move Salty before risking his value going any lower. The rumors out there is Texas is interested in moving him, Milton Bradley is the same thing, unless your name is Josh Hamilton or Neftali Feliz or Taylor Teagarden Texas will move you. Right now Nolan Ryan is trying to do a few things maximize his pitching depth and get ML ready arms or near ready arms. John Daniels is the guy that wants a good product there at all costs..I’d expect Salty and Bradley to be packaged for who is yet to be known, but Texas Rangers fans would welcome a deal that brings back pitching depth.
“Alan Horne is in AAA, Ian Kennedy can help a ML team, JB Cox is in AAA, Whealan is in AA…”
yeah, but Horne ahs also been hurt more than he’s been healthy, same as Whelan.
We all know Kennedy has talent, but he projects to the back of the rotation right now, especially after his performance early this year.
JB is another bullpen option, but he doesnt hold much value in terms of trading to another team as he does to the NY pen because he doesnt project as a MLB closer.
I feel like Cashman could/would offer up anyone outside of Cano and maybe Hughes to trade for a decent young-ish catcher.
He’s not doing that.
You people need to start talking yourselves out of the Saltalamacchias and Ianettas and into a whole lot of Jose Molina with a little Chad Moeller sprinkled on top. Because, a trade for a catcher isn’t happening–they just signed TWO catchers this offseason (Molina got a new deal too, though one without as much bust-potential as 4 for 40 mill) and the offense can cover for lame offensive production from the backstop if they play D and handle the pitching staff well enough.
More likely you’ll see another catcher off the scrap heap if Molina breaks down. I’ll start the Mike Piazza rumors.
“the value a good to great offensive catching prospect has is greater than a pitching prospect who projects to be a 4/5 guy in a rotation.
and while the Rangers need pitching, correct me if i’m wrong, but they have a bounty of pitching prospects that could be ready in the next year or 2 to begin to make an impact. you could prob argue at this popint that the rangers pitching prospects are overall better than the yankees, no?
so just because their pitching stinks this year doesnt mean they need pitching… they just need the pitching they have to develop, which is exactly what the yankees need to do.”
The Rangers, in no way, have a “bounty” of pitching prospects—not in the slightest.
It’s kind of funny. I advocated trading Kennedy in the offseason when most everybody else overvalued him. Now, he’s severely undervalued where most of the fanbase thinks nothing of him. That’s the way of an impulsive fanbase, I guess.
Kennedy was generally ranked higher than Salty as a prospect.
TurnTwo again I find it interesting that how you over value Saltalamacchia when he’s clearly in the outs from Texas and over value Milton Bradley’s price tag yet under value all of our pitching depth.
Its too early to evaluate Posada’s signing (or Mariano’s for that matter). He got injured this year but who knows what he will give us the next three years?
brandon where are you getting this?
cashman is getting an outfielder, starter and maybe a lefty for the pen.
he isnt going to shell out for saltalamaccia (if he really wanted him he would have went after him last season) or any of your other fantasy team picks.
just be patient
I think we signed Molina for two years, no? So at the very leadt we have himm for the rest of this and next year.
G Love – I didn’t see anyone suggesting we ‘empty out the vault’ – most people were looking to deal IPK and another prospect for Salty. No one with much of a brain is willing to trade Phil Hughes.Also – Varitek has never been the offensive player that Posada is and this year he is embarassing. If he gets a 2 year deal from the BoSox at his current salary they’ll be able to justify it with his Captain status and his solid handling of the young pitchers.Plus in Boston, anyone who picks a fight with A-Rod while wearing all of his catcher’s equipment is considered to be a real tough guy.Â
Sal (Connecticut): Hey Buster, why all the hate on the Yankees staff and bullpen when they have been very good especially the bullpen which has been exceptional and the Yankees have only lost 1 game when handing the ball over to the bullpen with a lead after 6 innings. 1!
SportsNation Buster Olney: (1:13 PM ET ) Sal: I have no idea what you are talking about. I haven’t been critical of the Yankees’ staff lately; it’s the offense that I’ve been critical of. BTW: The Yankees are taking a look at Jarrod Washburn, who has a career ERA of 2.82 ERA in Yankee Stadium. He’d fit them perfectly, for 2008 and 2009 — he had a sub-3.00 ERA in June and has similar numbers in July. We’ll see what happens.
Isn’t this the kind of situation that the Yankees were holding onto three catchers for? The Molina/Moeller combo will be fine as long as the rest of the lineup doesn’t die again.
Tim (Cleveland, Ohio): Rob – What happened? It seems like I woke up, and all of a sudden the Yankee bullpen was unhittable. It seems like everybody out there strikes out more than a hitter per inning. They are 43-1 when leading after 6 this season. And despite all of the collective innings pitched, they don’t have any individual leaders in appearances. Is there any more concrete proof that Torre was a disaster at managing a bullpen?
Rob Neyer: Just last night I was wondering to myself, would Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras be doing as well if Torre were still running the show? Let’s think about that one for a week. Until next time, don’t forget: “Do not needlessly endanger your lives until I give you the signal.”
andrew i agree, i am liking the way molina has been playing, hes great defensively, the pitcher seem to enjoy working with him. I really really can survive with him being at the back end of our lineup. Really. I think that it is smarter to do that with Moeller being the day off guy and instead find a cheaper right handed bat then a catcher like salty who i don’t see texas letting go of.
Washburn is cheap a LHP good ERA vs big teams I’d take him.
I said yesterday that we should go after McClouth and DOUMIT!!!
Pete, Someone Else (= SJ44) and others say things like :
“Jackson, Melancon, Hughes or guys like that. The other teams aren’t stupid”
EXACTLY the point!!! Give them a bunch of blue chips for these guys. McClouth/Doumit will cement their positions for now and for years following. The prospects are just “promises,promises” at this point.
Blargh: I am in total agreement with you.
Hey, we are narrowing down the competitors ahead of us to make the playoffs… win tonight and we catch the twins… that’s all there is between the Yankees, Ray, Red Sox for 2 spots in the playoffs
on my fantisy team i had possada for chatcher now that he is done who should i pich up?
1.a.j. persinsky
2.k. jojima
3.d. nevaro
4.g. zaun
5.paul la duca
Getting Saltlamacchia, “Salty,” cost the Rangers Teixeira and Mahay.Just because he’s having a down year, he won’t be given up for Ian Kennedy and other prospects you’re throwing out there. If you want a backup catcher in place of Moeller, look at the teams out of contention, like the Royals- Miguel Oliva having a great season defensively and a better season than Molina offensively.
Signing players to long term deals is a crapshoot, but sometimes there is no-one out there to trade with, or no decent FA’s available.
Rivera having one of his best seasons ever, and if he holds up this year and next, and the Yankees get to the WS, even if he doesn’t pitch well at age 40 in the last year of his contract, getting to the WS was worth the contract.
Mets gambled on Pedro’s contract and lost.
Yankees need younger, athletic, defensive standout position players, not more players, signed to long term deals who end up becoming DH’s-Giambi,Matsui,Posada, Damon.
Brandon – please, please, please, stop playing fantasy baseball trades hear, man.
Should the Yankees deal Tabata for a couple of back of the rotation prospects with injury histories? Hughes? No?
Then why would Texas do so with Salty?
* pick up
The Rangers were sellers at the deadline last year and it worked out pretty well for them – they got Kason Gabbard, Murphy who are now on the MLB club and Beltre in the minors.
They should spin the wheel again!
“on my fantisy team i had possada for chatcher now that he is done who should i pich up?
1.a.j. persinsky
2.k. jojima
3.d. nevaro
4.g. zaun
5.paul la duca”
Wow. Your spelling is godawful.
I’m not so sure we know how good of a hitter Posada can be when he doesn’t have to worry about catching.
I would think his stats would be better than what he’s done over the last 4-5 years without that daily grind. 20 HRs, 80 RBIs, .280 BA. If that was upped to say, 25 HRs, 95 RBIs – we couldn’t live with that at first base in 2010-11. Keep Giambi around for another year if he’s willing to sign cheap, then give the job to Posada.
It’s 9 months until April – Posada should go get the surgery.
and look, i just dont think the catcher is a priority right now.
if they can get Salty for a reasonable price, thats fine. he’s a great prospect.
but im not going to say we need him, or some other catching prospect, now that Posada is out for the season.
al arodien :
I think AJ is usually rated around top 10 at catcher.
Navarro has solid average numbers but not much else (and that average has slowed down quite a bit)
I think Johjima is losing playing time to Clement.
Wow. Your spelling is godawful.
well i am in middle of work so i rushed it a little…
got a problem with it ?????!!!!!!!
at least you understand what i wrote
Olney just said Kei Igawa and a secondary prospect for Washburn would get it done
“on my fantisy team i had possada for chatcher now that he is done who should i pich up?
1.a.j. persinsky
2.k. jojima
3.d. nevaro
4.g. zaun
5.paul la duca”
Should be:
“On my fantasy team I had Posada for catcher. Now that he is done, who should I pick up?
1. A.J. Pierzynski
2. K. Johjima
3. D. Navarro
4. G. Zaun
6. Paul Lo Duca”
See the difference?
“TurnTwo again I find it interesting that how you over value Saltalamacchia when he’s clearly in the outs from Texas and over value Milton Bradley’s price tag yet under value all of our pitching depth.”
i cant speak for what Texas thinks about Salty or any of their prospects, because i dont go to their fan sites, read their beat writers, etc.
i can undervalue, or properly value, our prospects because i can see them, and follow them, and read the reports from their games or watch them with my own eyes.
that doesnt mean they hold no value, but they, for the most part, certainly dont hold the value they did coming into the season.
I don’t mind Jarrod Washburn coming to the Bronx to pitch at the back of the rotation for the rest of the year. He’s battle-tested, left handed, ground ball pitcher, Seattle is awful and he’s definitely available…but at what cost? I will say it: I don’t want to see Ian Kennedy go for Jarrod Washburn. I don’t know what the line is between “what I be fine giving up for Jarrod Washburn” and “who should not be traded for Jarrod Washburn”, so maybe other people could fill that in by making up crazy deals.
Then why would Texas do so with Salty?
Alan Horne, Ian Kennedy, JB Cox, Jairo Heredia (are not bums) but you know what I can see where this is going. Again Frank Wren dealt for Teixeira what Texas asked for was nowhere near his value but that deal turned out to be a fleece by luck, at 21 or so Neftali Feliz wasn’t a top prospect, he had stuff but was very not ML ready. What you think is crap other teams might not feel the same way. We’ll end it there.
The Yankees are going to have to face this dilemma at many positions relax a catcher doesn’t need to hit 30 HR’s and bat .300 we will find something. Posada can catch occasionally and DH the rest of the time I was high on Cervelli until that oaf with the rays broke his wrist in ST. Once again these are the problems faced by a team in transition. I can tolerate Molina behind the plate because he has Pudge like defensive numbers. Another bat can and will be found and as you can see the Yankees can still score without Posada or Matsui.
“Wow. Your spelling is godawful.
well i am in middle of work so i rushed it a little…
got a problem with it ?????!!!!!!!
at least you understand what i wrote”
I’m at work also; I can spell properly when I rush, also. I would have problems at work if I didn’t.
You make yourself look 13 when you spell -that- poorly.
JR (NY): Who would the Yanks have to give up to get a guy like Washburn?
Buster Olney: (1:22 PM ET ) JR: Kei Igawa, and another secondary prospect. They’re taking on a lot of money (about $13-14 million), so they won’t have to give up much.
I definitely take Washburn and put him in Rasner’s spot.
I’m of the mindset that we ride out big Sid as long he holds up. He’s growing on me and the one thing I’m noticing is he still has some really good stuff. I also like the way he pitches himself out of his own jams.
Give me Pettitte, Joba, Mussina, Washburn and Ponson right now and I think with our pen we’re going to win 3 out of 5 the rest of the way.
Do you think this situation with Posada will make the Red Sox think twice about bringing back Varitek?
“Olney just said Kei Igawa and a secondary prospect for Washburn would get it done”
Hell yes, if true.
Al: Navarro. Easy.
someone else
thanks for fixing the spelling you are really “someone else”
Andrew no way they can expect Kennedy for Washburn and he has one more year on his contract. Maybe a Melky Cabrera, maybe a George Kontos, he’s basically a salary dump.
“cashman is getting an outfielder, starter and maybe a lefty for the pen.”
totally agree, jay. patience.
when its all said and done, i think we’ll see another pitcher, and maybe someone who is a slight upgrade in the corner OF positions.
i’m just not expecting Cashman to buy in on any serious catching prospects, or make a huge splash, even if thats what i personally hope that he’d do, because its not who Cashman is anymore.
“Then why would Texas do so with Salty?
Alan Horne, Ian Kennedy, JB Cox, Jairo Heredia (are not bums) but you know what I can see where this is going. Again Frank Wren dealt for Teixeira what Texas asked for was nowhere near his value but that deal turned out to be a fleece by luck, at 21 or so Neftali Feliz wasn’t a top prospect, he had stuff but was very not ML ready. What you think is crap other teams might not feel the same way. We’ll end it there.”
I didn’t say they were bums.
But Salty is an A list prospect. He would be nothing spectacular as a LF, but as a C, he’s an A lister.
Your list is full of B listers. And Kennedy and Horne have also lost value since preseason.
Buster Olney: (1:22 PM ET ) JR: Kei Igawa, and another secondary prospect. They’re taking on a lot of money (about $13-14 million), so they won’t have to give up much.
JUST DO IT !!! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IT !
yank- I think Fairytek’s .212 avg is enough to have the soxs think twice.
Seymour, Brooklyn: Some of you “experts” never learn not to give up on the Yankees in the second half…
SportsNation Buster Olney: (1:24 PM ET ) Seymour: I picked them to win the division, so I’d hardly qualify as someone who has given up on them.
Jacob (Brooklyn): Do you really think Washburn is a good fit with the Yankees because he has a good ERA in 38.1 innings at Yankee Stadium?
SportsNation Buster Olney: (1:26 PM ET ) Jacob: I think it’s a factor they will look at — he’s a lefty flyball pitcher who changes speeds well and has a nice post-season history. To me, he’s a perfect fit for them, the way that George Sherrill makes complete sense for the Brewers or the Angels.
John (NY): Why all the Washburn rumors? Where is this originating from?
SportsNation Buster Olney: (1:27 PM ET ) John: It should be on our site. I filed something an hour ago (but haven’t checked) on it. It is being discussed seriously by the Yankees.
Rebecca- In hindsight that is good to look at but the Yanks were blinded by the greatness of the big unit when they made that deal.
“Give me Pettitte, Joba, Mussina, Washburn and Ponson right now and I think with our pen we’re going to win 3 out of 5 the rest of the way.”
idk, im not as sold on Washburn as most people seem to be. but again, its all relative to value… if you can ship Igawa west and take on Washburn’s salary, then go for it.
at that point, all it really costs is money, which is something the Yankees can afford to do.
But Salty is an A list prospect.
Salty was an A list prospect right now not so.
My former teammate is having an awful year just like me, not sure what he contract is like, but maybe a change of scenery would help him. He did have 2 pretty good, not great, years prior top this year. Might be worth looking into
Washburn? Heck I guess even I’d be an upgrade on Igawa. Do they only want him because he’s Japanese?
Whew, nothing goes together better than “New York Yankees” and “salary dump”. Kei Igawa and a second-tier prospect? I love it.
Was Olney actually serious about Washburn?
Rebecca,
Buster’s so weak. He wrote this before he answered the Yankee fan:
Eric (Appleton, WI): What are your current predictions on the playoff picture?
Buster Olney: (1:19 PM ET ) Eric: They were so bad at the beginning of the season that anything I say now will have less than zero credibility, but hey, take them for what they’re worth: Mets, Cubs, Brewers, D-Backs in the NL, Red Sox, Rays, White Sox and Angels in the AL.
I saw Jorge grab his shoulder after making a throw early in the year (can’t remember the game). When I saw him do it my first thought was “That’s not good.”
I doubt it was before then because I saw him throw in ST this year and he looked fine.
The team has tried to get him through this by the more conservative means; rest, therapy, slow build up back.
That hasn’t worked. time to bite the bullet, let him go for the year and get fixed. All this stuff about him playing first and DH is not going to fix his shoulder, delays both the inevitable 9it’s already been said he needs to be cut) as well as his return.
Despite what many are saying he has about a year once he has the surgery before he will be close to 100%.
In other words, delaying to save him for this season delays his availability for 2009.
Remember when Lastings Milledge was an A+ list prospect. Then he got traded for Ryan Church. Texas has Max Ramirez there too so it’s hard to say they are really sold on Salty after all. It appears the Braves may have gotten over-value for their switch hitting catching prospect. It all depends on how patient the Rangers are.
Big Sexy- LOL.
(for that matter, Washburn is signed through ‘09, with limited no-trade protection)
“Buster’s so weak. He wrote this before he answered the Yankee fan:”
at least the other morning, Tim Kirkjian said he’s learned never to pick against the yankees in the second half, and he said he doesnt have any clue on how they’ll do it, but he doesnt see the ghosts allowing the Yankees to miss the playoffs in the final year of the Stadium.
Rebecca-
Have said that Washburn, a decent lefty will be the kind of 5th starter the Yanks will look at-little cost in money as Seattle, based on the prospect they get in return, picks up part of his salary. Plus he pitched OK last night against Boston- 2 runs in 5+ innings.
Molina is not a FA in 2009.
FA catchers are Barajas, Barrett, Estrada, Lo Duca, Ross, Varitek, Zaun and Ivan Rodriguez. Kendall and Olivo have club options. Oliva playing well for Royals, especially defensively and they already have John Buck, so maybe we get him reasonably.
Trade Abreu for prospects and in turn spin off some of those prospects and ours for Nady to play RF.
Bruney comes up-Hawkins dumped/traded
Want a lefty reliever-look at Will Ohman of Braves, who might not require a kings ransom like Marte or Fuentes.
Look into getting Ryan Spillborghs of Rockies to play CF/LF, instead of costly/Boras client Matt Holliday.
“Give me Pettitte, Joba, Mussina, Washburn and Ponson right now and I think with our pen we’re going to win 3 out of 5 the rest of the way.”
come to think of it, if they played .600 baseball the rest of the season theyd only win 91 games… 92 if you round up.
is that going to be enough to get in the playoffs? history tells us probably not.
Tim Kirkjian is awesome.
But yeah, it’s like I wrote last night:
Somewhere, in Yankeeland, apparently, there is a switch.
It’s just like a light switch, with an on-off choice, and underneath the switch there is a label that reads:
New York Yankees
Underneath the label, there is a sign that reads:
PLEASE TURN ON SWITCH AFTER THE ALL STAR GAME AND LEAVE ON FOR REMAINDER OF CALENDAR YEAR
Or something.
“Salty was an A list prospect right now not so.”
Sort of like Tabata. Maybe the Rangers will take him…..but I doubt it.
TurnTwo: depends on which teams the wins are against
Olney = Boston loving turd. Wait until the Rays have to play on the road again, their true colors will shine right through. Think Boston in LA it will be kinda like that. Tampa is 6 under on the road and some of that was against the NL. Boston is 10 under yes I said that correctly.
Turn Two,
I’m big-time superstitious, so I don’t like to make bold predictions.
I’ll just say I like the clip we’re playing at and leave it at that!
Rebecca- I agree.
And Tim Kirkjian channels a different ghost every time he appears on tv.
Washburn’s numbers are not horrific. Especially considering how bad his team is. Somehow I think Olney si making this one up.
Kei Igawa gone I say give him away for whomever.
Facilitating a salary dump for the Mariners after benefiting from their DFA of Big Sexy would seem to be a good karma move.
After we dealt Kei Igawa and w/ Farnsy performing at a high level, who do we turn into our ‘blog pinata’?
Hey people, rank your top 5 ESPN MLB Analysts/Commentators
I’d go:
1)Peter Gammons
2)Tim Kurkjian
3)Rob Neyer
4)John Kruk (Just for the comedy)
5)Orel Hershiser
I would give Kei Igawa away for Julio Franco!!!
Fredo, thats a very good point. i guess you could say Salty is Texas’s Jose Tabata, but further along in his development process.
something tells me the yankees would view that as selling low on Tabata, though.
If I had to guess, I would say it was Posada who insisted on catching before he was ready, not Girardi. We all heard Jorge’s speech that he’s not a DH or 1Bman, and that he’s “not happy about not catching, and that Girardi knows I’m not happy”. It’s an unfortunately situation and hindsight’s 20/20, but it seems more likely that Jorge forced his way into coming back too early and thus re-injuring himself.
I say get the surgery now. Even if he can DH, Jorge has not exactly been an offensive force so far this season. We’ll miss you Jorge but get it taken care of and we’ll see you next season.
I am remembering the game he had against us a few years back in the playoffs and thinking that maybe he would be good in Yankee stadium.
Al –
Olney was a beat writer on the Yanks for years and wrote a book about the team – I doubt he hates them. It is why he has good connections with the front office and gets good info about the team’s thinking.
CUYanks- Was that list a joke it looked like the John Henry dinner party invite list. I actually hate all NESPN “analysts” except maybe Kurkjian, and on certain days Kruk.
“Olney was a beat writer on the Yanks for years and wrote a book about the team – I doubt he hates them.”
i’m reading his book now, with its new foreward that was re-published this past February. good book so far.
TkinDC- I know Olney is not a bad guy I am just blowing steam about how much I hate ESPN he is pretty informed unlike the rest of them.
CUYanks, I like Gammons for the comedy. I mean, he can’t be serious with some of the stuff he says.
“After we dealt Kei Igawa and w/ Farnsy performing at a high level, who do we turn into our ‘blog pinata’?”
Well, there’s always ol’ reliable, the Idle One. There’s never enough bashing of him. Never!
“Give me Pettitte, Joba, Mussina, Washburn and Ponson right now and I think with our pen we’re going to win 3 out of 5 the rest of the way.”
You can’t possibley like the Yankees pen being that a guy who doesn’t know how to evaluate talent is responsible for the guys that are in there. Surely you jest.
I really like Gammons and Kurkjian. I can’t stand Steve Phillips, Buster Olney, and the rest of the experts who always make their “bold predictions” by picking every first place team to win the division.
Sort of like Tabata. Maybe the Rangers will take him…..but I doubt it.
There is 2 differences, Texas wants to sell before Salty’s value gets lower, Tabata is still 19. I doubt Tabata is going anywhere. Salty because of the 3 catcher platoon would likely be odd man out.
Al –
Hating ESPN’s pro-Sawx bias is something we are 100% on the same wavelength!
In no real particular order:
1) Buster
2) Kurkjian (just for the voice and he’s unbiased)
3) Neyer
4) K-Law (quirky)
5) Jon Miller (without his vertically challenged cellmate)
(Watch Orel on tv. He does a funny thing with his mouth. Looks like a ventriloquist.)
“something tells me the yankees would view that as selling low on Tabata, though.”
Something tells me the Rangers would view that the same way on Saltalamachia.
TK: One of my close friends is a die-hard Sox fan and he says that ESPN has a pro-Yankee bias!
Al and TKinDC,
I almost take the ridiculous pro-Sox bias on ESPN as a positive, because every time the Yankees win and they have to report it, it’s like rubbing it in the face of one of your friends who hates the Yankees.
JR (NY): Who would the Yanks have to give up to get a guy like Washburn?
Buster Olney: (1:22 PM ET ) JR: Kei Igawa, and another secondary prospect. They’re taking on a lot of money (about $13-14 million), so they won’t have to give up much.
Wait, Igawa could possibly be involved in a possible deal to bring us a baseball player?
Isn’t that one of the signs of the apocalypse?
Tim Kurkjian is the best thing on ESPN and its not even close. Harold Reynolds was excellent too…I guess Orel “Secks” Hershiser is number 2 by default….but really Tim is the only guy worth listening to now that HR is no longer there.
Oh, Kenji Johjima is the teammate I was speaking of
CuYanks- Once again the Gammons reference was a joke right? He is the biggest Yankee hater on TV.
Something tells me the Rangers would view that the same way on Saltalamachia.
Something tells me TeaGarden and Max Ramirez wouldn’t be there if they did.
Another sign of the Apocalypse: Richie Sexson defensive replacement at first base (and justifiably so!)
“There is 2 differences, Texas wants to sell before Salty’s value gets lower, Tabata is still 19. I doubt Tabata is going anywhere. Salty because of the 3 catcher platoon would likely be odd man out.”
Salty is only 23. He has about 2/3 a season worth of AB’s. Rangers don’t want to sell low. They’ve got time to wait him out and try to sell high.
As for Tabata, his value stands every bit the chance of going further down as Salty’s does. Look how far it’s dropped this year alone.
“Wait, Igawa could possibly be involved in a possible deal to bring us a baseball player?
Isn’t that one of the signs of the apocalypse?”
it wouldve happened last year, if Cashman let San Diego have their way.
BTW, the Washburn info is up on Buster’s ESPN blog now. basically a combo of everything people already posted.
Tk- Its good to know I am not alone in my opinion. Whenever I bring up the ESPN bias Whozat and others say that I am just a conspiracy theorist or something like that.
buster onley book on the new york yankees is very good, rob neyer knows what he is talking about and keith law knows the minor leagues pretty good, everyone else on ESPN is fluff
Richie Sexson is an OK 1B not great but the best on the roster.
Rebecca – lol
I guess it is a matter of perspective – but a lot of their talking heads Berthiaume (sp?), Phillips, Gammons have clear Boston ties or sympathies. Olney is the only Yankee connected guy I am aware of.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion (despite the fact that mine is 100% gospel truth
)
Leo
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Olney just said Kei Igawa and a secondary prospect for Washburn would get it done
*******************************************************
I’d do that deal in a New York minute.
Ray,
Clearly you have the reading comprehension of recently lobotomized patient.
I have said umpteen times in my posts that they’ve done an excellent job with the bullpen this season.
But you only hear what you want to hear and you like to scrap because you have some bug up your butt.
So in deference to your ignorance, I sincerely apologize I don’t share the same opinions you do. If I could just think like you, like would be ducky.
I’m sure whoever is in your life finds you pleasant and reasonable and a joy to be around.
Thankfully, I have something to strive for in my incomplete existence. Just get over the hump and see everything like you and I’ll finally have reached Yankee fan nirvana.
Now feel free to go over to your Cashman shrine and kiss all the framed photo’s you have of him in celebration.
I’ve seen the error of my ways. You’re brilliant and fine gentleman at that.
Huzzah!
The loss of Posada is huge. His is a major injury from which it takes a long time to recover. If he has surgery next week, it’ll be March before his arm is all the way back. And all the way back might not really be all the way back. At his age, a full recovery isn’t assured. A catcher needs a gun for an arm. Posada’s throwing arm might never be the same. Sure, he’s in top physical shape otherwise and has looked like he’d be able to catch until he’s 40. But the odds are against him.
Realistically, I see Posada as a 1B/C/DH over the next three seasons, and I figure the Yanks will be forced to carry 2 other catchers on their roster for much of the time.
The FA market will, fortunately, provide the Yanks with some options, all of which have their pluses and minuses. There will not be any + catchers available on the FA market. Thank goodness they’ve got Jose Molina. If they can get a little more offensively from the rest of the lineup next season, they can get by with a weaker hitter in the C spot. Francisco Cervelli may be able to earn a roster spot and be that 3rd catcher. PJ Piliterre has an outside shot. The Yankees’ + catching prospects–Jesus Montero and, particularly, Kevin Romine–are not close to the big leagues.
I want Washburn in stripes by Rasner’s next start. I can feel a bust of a game tonight by Razzy.
Can we talk about Edwar Ramirez for a second? Is he unhittable for real? Or is this just one of those cycles which will soon be followed by multiple hr’s by batters sitting on his change?
Kennedy, Cox, and Suttle for Salty.
there you go.
I’d do that deal in a New York minute.
IDK why it isn’t finalized yet.
Keith Hernandez is my favorite announcer.
Not sure who said John Miller…but that guy is horrible. “Ru-Ben” Sierra
I think Brian Cashman has ascended to the role of “blog pinata”.
Rebecca- If I had the means I could write an entire book about the Boston bias and examples of it. Here is a one word example that needs no explanation they call Boston “Titletown”.
Keith Hernandez never stops bragging
Can we talk about Edwar Ramirez for a second? Is he unhittable for real? Or is this just one of those cycles which will soon be followed by multiple hr’s by batters sitting on his change?
He’s always had strikeout ability, but adding that slider makes his changeup just as tough on alot of hitters LH or RH.
CUYanks- Edwar is a 2 pitch pitcher and once in awhile someone will get a hold of his change and put it in the seats. However I think he can get by on it.
SA: In case you and anyone else forgot:
Reasons the Apocalypse is already here:
10) The Cubs are in first place and actually look legitimate
09) The Orioles might not lose 100 games this year.
08) Terry Francona actually let Mo pitch the ninth and 10th in the ASG*
07) The Yankees are 43-1 when leading after six.
06) Both Jeter AND Canò homered last night
05) Nadal beat Federer at Wimbledon
04) Spain won Euro ‘08
03) The Jets actually signed FAs in the offseason.
02) Tampa is a first place team.
01) The Yankees are 4-0 in Sidney Ponson starts.
*(this is a joke. Francona is a class guy).
“IDK why it isn’t finalized yet.”
maybe it is, and we just dont know yet.
ESPN goes for who’s winning. Right now it’s the Sox. Hopefully after October it WILL be biased towards the Yankees.
“Keith Hernandez never stops bragging”
thats what makes him great.
He’s taking lessons from Rivera. This can only have positive results.
If you’re going to go around correcting people’s spelling errors, shouldn’t you use proper English yourself?
When did “godawful” become a word in the English dictionary?
“Kennedy, Cox, and Suttle for Salty”
for real?
Salty also plays 1st base, and that might end up being his postion, not catcher.
Cot’s contracts sez …..
Jarrod Washburn lhp
4 years/$37.5M (2006-09)
signed as a free agent 12/05
06:$7.45M, 07:$9.85M, 08:$9.85M, 09:$10.35M
limited no-trade protection
1 year/$6.5M (2005), avoided arbitration 1/05
1 year/$5.45M (2004), avoided arbitration 1 /04
1 year/$3.875M (2003), avoided arbitration 1/03
1 year/$0.35M (2002) 3/02
agent: Scott Boras
ML service: 8.131
G. Love,
You’ve gone on rant after rant criticizing Cashman and saying he isn’t a good judge of talent.
Now you’re saying that he’s done a good job of evaluating talent for the bullpen.
So either he’s a good judge of talent, or he’s a bad judge of talent who’s gotten extremely lucky finding good arms for the pen.
Contrary to your popular belief I don’t live in Yankee fan Nirvana and I don’t believe Cashman is a perfect GM. I just don’t agree with your assessment of him.
You just believe that anyone who doesn’t think Cashman is a terrible GM worships the ground he walks on which is very far from the truth.
Big Sexy,
That was me.
Jon Miller has a great radio voice (Giants games). He sounds you know what, but it’s very soothing. Joe Morgan’s stink rubs off on him in the tv booth, though.
You won’t find a lady Yankee fan anywhere who likes Hernandez.
Not only is he a sexist pig, but he looks like he just walked out of Studio 54.
CUYanks
Supposedly Pedro Martinez had a conversation with Edwar in the off season and said he should use other pitches more / use the change up less or something to that effect.
I doubt it’s the first time he’s been told that or the last, but maybe it meant something to him coming from Pedro.
Makes sense that if you throw the change half the time, then hitters can guess right on it half the time.
He shouldn’t learn pitching from a guy like Joba or Mo because he’ll never throw as hard as Joba or Mo. Unless either of them can help him with working on something like their specialty pitch of course. If he can learn more of the the craft of pitching from a guy like Moose then maybe he can make the best of that change up.
John Miller is a moron who cant pronounce any names. Even simple names he manages to butcher. Him and Joe Morgan are painful to watch and even worse to listen too.
help me out here guys – I’m up from Florida and heading into the Bronx now, I want to go to Monument Park – anyone know what time they open it up/ what time I should get there etc. Thanks for the help !! Go Yankees!!
If Rivera’s lessons to Ramirez have been a help, I certainly don’t hope his lessons to Halladay, Soria and Kazmir,at All Star game didnt help them when they face us.
Salty has a chance of being the worst player in the deal for Tex. Maybe the paparrazi could get a pic of his cougar wife/former teacher? I hear she’s elusive.
““Keith Hernandez never stops braggingâ€
thats what makes him great.”
He’s Keith f’n Hernandez isn’t he?
Not sure how this was “mismanaged” other than to have not insisted on surgery immediately.
In the meantime, I’m sure that this situation will work itself out. It always does.
Keith Hernandez is the man. point blank.
What would happen if Giambi, Tom Selleck and Keith Hernandez showed up at the same party?
“Salty also plays 1st base, and that might end up being his postion, not catcher.”
dont we currently have a catcher who will play out his contract like this? and then a catching prospect who’s future seems to tend to the same result after that?
thats an awful lot of catchers turned 1B/DH’s.
JoeT- Doors open 2 hours before first pitch I believe and you can go up until 45 mins pror to the start of the game. So you have an hour and 15 minute period to check out the history.
It can’t be underestimated just how much Mo’s advice and guidance have meant to Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras.
The results have shown and it started in spring training.
*prior.
AL,
The ladies would flee. The lip pet may have been sexy in the 70’s, but this is the 21st century.
NEW YORK (AP) — Go ahead, Yankees fans. Slather on that SPF 45 — sunscreen is now legal in Yankee Stadium.
The baseball team has lifted a ban on plastic containers of sunscreen at their ballpark after deciding “not to be as stringent,” team spokesman Jason Zillo said Tuesday.
Sports teams around the country started restricting what fans could bring into stadiums after the 2001 terrorist attacks.
The Yankees’ Web site lists bans on backpacks, briefcases, coolers, large purses, laptop computers and video cameras. Bottles and cans also are on the forbidden list, but the sunscreen question is not specifically addressed.
Mo’s work with the pitchers just shows if we wants he could be a great pitching coach. He helped Vizcaino last year and the results helped us get comp picks in the draft.
Yankee Trader: There’s a slight difference.
Kazmir and Halladay got one evening with Rivera.
Edwar’s gotten all year.
Edwar wouldn’t have to throw Mo’s or Joba’s specialty pitches as hard as they do … he couldn’t possibly do that. They’d need to be thrown with just enough speed & movement to get past hitters when used as an effective complement to the change.
A good 2nd or even 3rd pitch would go a long way of he could do it.
Would love to see him learn more of the craft from Moose, even though he’ll probably never throw as many types of pitches as Moose.
thanks a lot Al, what time do you think I should be there? 4/4:30 good?
Jorge’s such a proud man. He came up as infielder, but wanted to catch even though it was detrimental.
I hope he gets it taken care of sooner than later. We really need him in ‘09.
It’ll be cruel not having him close out the stadium.
they really like montero, they aren’t going to give up the world to not have him be there guy in the future.
Ya Joe thats good the doors might open earlier if you are driving you should be there as early as possible maybe even 4.
Al…there would be a ton of cocaine in at the party the second those 3 walked in.
“Olney just said Kei Igawa and a secondary prospect for Washburn would get it done”
I cannot believe this is true. If it is, they should jump on it. Washburn makes about 10m/yr, Kei 4m/yr. That’s very reasonable for what amounts to a 4th starter.
Plus it rids me of having to watch him coach 1st base in Scranton with his stupid sunglasses.
You’re absolutely right Ray. Cashman never signed Latroy Hawkins for 3.5 million and offered him as the 7th inning bridge to Mariano. That must have been the ghost of the Tampa mafia who ordered that one.
Girardi’s faith and use of players like Edwar and Veras who didn’t make the opening the day roster, has everything to do with what’s happened in the pen.
I believe the Seinfeld episodes caught Keith Hernandez’ persona perfectly.
mel -
I was a Mets fan long ago – before kids. (Before I came to my senses) and Hernandez has earned the right to brag. I don’t like it, but he’s earned it. Actually, I don’t like Hernandez as an announcer if he’s unchecked; but that threesome of Darling, Hernandez and Cohn is pretty good. They have a nice chemistry going and Gary Cohn is a good stabilizer in that booth.
I like the different combos in the Yankees booth and I’m still trying to figure out which one I like best. Might be Singleton and Flaherty, but there’s different reasons to like/not like each combo. Leiter and Kay are funny because they bicker and Leiter kind of sets Kay straight a lot.
“He shouldn’t learn pitching from a guy like Joba or Mo because he’ll never throw as hard as Joba or Mo.”
Mo said the same thing to Ramirez as Pedro, use your fastball more. Mariano may not have needed more than 1 pitch his entire career, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t know how to pitch or the importance of setting up your pitches and picking your spots for a guy like Edwar. Mariano has also had to do more than just throw the cutter the last couple of years, so he also has some experience setting up his cutter, even if it’s just with other fastballs and good placement.
Hey Guys, Jeter here. I,ve been sitting in the clubhouse reading all your posts and I just wanted to let you know that everything is going to be fine. Johnny is going to back in left this weekend and Melky’s going to follow Cano in his return to form. Once Alex finalizes his divorce, expect absolute brilliance. Me and Bobby are also pickin it up. Didn’t you see last nights game? Expect more of that from here on out. Jose’s an awesome catcher and we’re all confident he can contribute at the plate. Besides all the guys prefer pitching to him anyway. The front of our rotation has been matching any front three we’ve seen so far and Ras and Sir Sid are holding their own as well. And in case you haven’t noticed, the pen is about the best I’ve seen since I’ve been here. I,m sure we’ll take a few lumps along the way but have no fear, when all is said and done, we’ll be there in October.
I really think Cashman is banking on Pavano. I strongly believe he will not go for any big arm (not many that are left). I think we have enough for bullpen as we will be getting Bruney back as well. We need a right hand Bat and a good starter.
Without Cashman here the man Joba Chamberlain won’t be wearing pinstripes right now.
thanks Al
Enjoy the game everyone!!
Joe T
Better get to the park when the gates open. We did and still there was a line to get in to monument park. It was very confusing as it was my first time back since the 70’s, so ask someone for help when you get in.
Mo isnt teaching Edwar how to throw harder he is teaching him technique and set-up and Edwar can hit 92-93 thats plenty fine if you have good secondary pitches.
“I really think Cashman is banking on Pavano.”
Why, did you just sell him some crack?
YF4Eva –
You are insane if you think Cashman is counting on the Rajah of Rehab (prospective blog pinata).
Cashman has actually aired Pavano out in the media which he NEVER does.
The Yankees do not need a young catcher…They have 5 or 6 good prospects in A ball…
Montero
Romine
Weems
Anson
Cervelli
Rodriguez
Plus they are close to signing or have signed
Kyle H Higashioka
Jackson Valera
Chances are that at least one of these guys will pan-out in the next 2 or 3 years…The Yankees need a stop gap in case Posada can’t catch anymore. Someone like Benji Molina or Kelly Shoppach would be ideal…
“Girardi’s faith and use of players like Edwar and Veras who didn’t make the opening the day roster, has everything to do with what’s happened in the pen.”
He signed Latroy to a one year deal as a stop gap until some of the guys in the minors were ready, ie. Robertson.
Of course you’re also forgetting that Edwar and Veras replaced Brian Bruney and Jonathan Albaladejo. I wonder how they got on the team.
I can’t believe this, but I’m actually enjoying talking about the bullpen
That says something, doesn’t it?
Doreen,
Are you still in his fan club? haha
btw, I’ve read your opinions on Madonna (you have a lot!) and I just wanted to share mine.
As we’ve figured out, I’m probably about 10 years younger than you so I heard a lot of her good early stuff in my teen years. Of course I was not to young to figure out that she wasn’t much of a singer and then not much of an actor. But she was still fascinating to watch because she successfully re-invented herself over and over to stay relevant. You’ll never see another one like her because singers are singers, not performers nowadays.
But, I do have to say that Madonna BLEW me away in Evita. A performance for the ages. Her look, sassiness, acting, and, yes, even her singing came together perfectly.
So anyway, she’s a big joke, but I still have fond memories of her when she was young. And I loved her in Evita.
Nick (Indianapolis): Buster: Which of the Pirates involved in trade rumors gets moved?
Buster Olney: (1:37 PM ET ) Nick: If the current asking prices persist, none of them will be moved. Teams are being told that they essentially have to overwhelm the Pirates on Wilson and Bay and Nady and Marte
and that’s why they are the Pirates. Different GM, and all.
Giving a catcher at Posada’s age a four year deal was a bad idea from the start.
Did anyone here that the Yankee bullpen was 1st in K’s in the majors. Thats pretty impressive K’s are a sign of a dominant pen this is something that the Yanks have always needed a pen of young strong arms that can blow away hitters. Even without Joba the pen is very much a strength of this team.
ray –
You’re right – find me a team that ends the year with the same guys in the BP that started there – it just does not happen.
BP pitchers are almost by definition not as reliable as rotation guys. Cashman did a good job of assembling talent and the 43-1 record with a lead after six is ASTOUNDINGLY GOOD!
“BP pitchers are almost by definition not as reliable as rotation guys. Cashman did a good job of assembling talent and the 43-1 record with a lead after six is ASTOUNDINGLY GOOD!”
If Boston’s were near that good, they’d be up 9-10 games. Good bullpens are huge.
Jorge got what did because:
1) The Mets were in play
2) He was the best FA catcher
3) Your other choices were: LoDuca and Torrealba
4) He’s a true Yankee, he’ll retire a Yankee
5) He can play 1B/DH if he can’t catch
6) He’s Jorge Posada
Hawkins was a bargain they way the offseason was going and we didn’t throw a multi-year deal at him. He might be pitching lousy but he’s a good clubhouse presence nonetheless. Cashman has amassed a lot of potential pen arms. Anyone seen Phil Coke for Trenton? He’s on the older end of the spectrum but he could emerge as a lefty option.
Question: Why is it that when the Yankees are on the road, it seems like they never have the afternoon games on travel days because the home team wants to boost their revenues by having the Yankees in town for a night game, YET, when the Yankees are home, they seem to do afternoon games for other teams just about every time (including tomorrow, when the Yankees have an off day thursday before traveling a mere 40 minute flight to Boston)??
Meaning, the Yankees sacrifice the same revenue for these other teams that don’t do the same for them. We should stop doing 1pm games until other teams go back to giving us the same courtesy.
The Pirates will never be a successful team because in order to rebuild you MUST trade steady major leaguers for solid prospects asking teams for the world and then getting stuck with guys who will leave anyway is silly.
And isn’t it ironic that the one blown game came off Joba?
Sign Tony Pena Jr. He’s tops in WHIP with a 0.00!
bullpens are fluid.
We started with (I think)
Mariano Rivera
Joba Chamberlain
LaTroy Hawkins
Kyle Farnsworth
Brian Bruney
Billy Traber
Ross Ohlendorf
Jonathan Albaladejo
And we have now
Mariano Rivera
Kyle Farnsworth
Jose Veras
Dan Giese
David Robertson
Edwar Ramirez
LaTroy Hawkins
If not for injuries, our ‘pen probably doesn’t look like this right now.
It’s also, probably, not as effective.
Molina/Moller is fine if:
1.Damon is able to play every day
2.They go get a RH big bat to play left or DH
3.Melky picks it up a little bit (275-280 BA)
4.Get a decent innings eater back of the rotation starter.
(wow that is alot of ifs!!!)
Hawkins has calmed down after being verbally assaulted by the Stadium fans.
Could’ve been a different season if people were reasonable or if he chose another number.
“Could’ve been a different season if people were reasonable or if he chose another number.”
Some of that goes back to Girardi. He played with Paulie and should have stepped in and really guided him.
Irony is the spice of life, after all!
well the yankees should take a lesson from this you dont sign old guys period! Of course not for 4 year contracts. I think that we got to take a sample from boston they had a lot of vetran players and they didnt sign them
1.Johnny Damon
2.pedro
3.k. faulke
4.t. nixon
5.k. mullor
and many more
The old guys they do sign are for one year deals
1.curt shilling
2.tim wakefield
3.mirebely
they dont look on the past they look what will the person help our team in the future.
Cashman signed posada because of the past not future!
Hawkins stinks he has no place in the bullpen. He only pitches up 10 or down 10 that says alot.
mel –
I forgot all about that – nice catch!
——–
There is a good round-up of the lefty RP market on mlbtraderumors with the Yankees listed as interested in Affeldt and Fuentes among others.
I have been a big booster of picking up a lefty for the pen – but there are clearly more pressing issues (righty bat and end of the rotation guy)
Cashman hasn’t landed an impact lefty for ages, but if it has to wait until the off-season I guess I won’t get too out of joint.
Why don’t we have a true long man as opposed to Hawkins. I mean a guy who can pitch 5 or 6 innings in a blowout.
“Cashman signed posada because of the past not future!”
Not true. He signed him for present need. We needed a catcher and he was the best available, period. Probably gave him too many years because of the past, but he was worth 2 or 3 based on present value, not past. The guy had a career year and had never been on the DL till now. He also didn’t come up as a catcher, which means a lot less punishment on his body over the years compared to guys who have been catching since they were in little league or even high school.
He has an injury, people need to stop talking like Jorge is washed up and will never play again.
There already is a long man in Giese
I know one thing – Molina is awfully good considering he supposed to be backup for Posada. That’s the guy who just increased his valued tremendously.
I think we can chalk up the Posada singing to a combination of things:
1. what he has done for us in the past. we felt he deserved the respect of at least offering something.
2. Lack of catchers in the FA/trade market. it would have made no sense to let Posada walk, than give up prospects to trade for a catcher.
3. he had a career year last year, something we all know wasn’t going to be duplicated.
All of this adds up to resigning Posada. Unofrtunately, they should NEVER have given him 4 years. I don’t care what kind of money they r paying him, just should have kept the years down. A 2 year $30 mill with a 3rd year option should have been what we offered, and i’m sure he would have taken it. Fortunately for Boston this year, Varitek is doing nothing to warrant getting resigned, nevermind for long term or big numbers.
What we can learn from Boston is this: loyalty doesn’t win for old players. Last time i checked, not many players, if any, take less money or a lesser contract to stay loyal to a team, so why should a team, in turn, show loyalty by giving a guy a contract he doesn’t deserve, but instead, because he earned it in prior years.
Jason Bay would be a perfect fit in the line-up, but given the pirates posturing I don’t see it happening.
Props to Cash for dumping Kennard for Molina.
Blargh: touche
Washburn for Igawa?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....oking.html
CU: You mean Dan Giese?
Washburn? …ehhhhhhhhh
Is this the same Posada that was angered by Giardi not playing him behind the plate because (I’m paraphrasing) “he’s a catcher, not a first basemen”…or something like that? Now he’s saying that he “can’t catch like this”? Sounds more like he was angry at himself for not being able to catch.
FYI—
Rescuing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac costs each of you $80.
“Washburn? …ehhhhhhhhh”
Igawa …ehhhhhhhhh!
Don’t spend all of your “economic stimulus” checks yet.
al arodien’s posts make my eyes bleed
Pete why do you keep forgetting these are the Yankees? They can afford the Posada hit. They pay 5 mil for a Triple A starter. They pay 10 for a useless rehabber. It doesn’t hurt them.
Washburn is a serviceable 4-5 and has a track record unlike Razzy.
“What we can learn from Boston is this…”
I hate to admit to Boston doing anything better, but you’re 100% correct.
Yes, Giese is right. I guess I just didn’t think about him because he really hasn’t pitched extended innings in almost a month.
has Igawa been traded yet ?
10 Yankees · Trends 10
They were bound to start winning some of those 2-1 and 4-3 games … Welcome to the 2008 season, Robbie Cano … Let’s be honest: Posada hadn’t helped the team much since he returned. Get the shoulder fixed and come back strong in 2009 … It’s entirely possible that third-base coach Bobby Meacham is The Mole … Edwar Ramirez in his past 11 innings: one hit, zero runs, two walks, 14 Ks. Kyle Farnsworth in his past eight innings: no hits, no runs, four walks, seven Ks. Brian Fuentes whats-a-ma-who?
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10905572
Rebecca,
I’ve been kicking around the idea of starting a blog. Is it hard to maintain? Does it cost anything?
So if we follow the Boston model – Mariano is gone right? Pettitte is gone? Moose is gone?
And the comparison between ‘Tek and Posada is ridiculous.
Jarrod Washburn
2.38 ERA at Yankees Stadium (check)
2.76 ERA in last 5 games (check)
2.64 BAA in last 10 (check)
60 % PT for strikes (check)
holds the running game (check)
.269 BAA in the postseason (check)
Gets Kei Igawa out of NY (check check!!)
Keeps FatBoy shut about Arroyo (check !)
What’s taking so F’n long !
“All of this adds up to resigning Posada. Unofrtunately, they should NEVER have given him 4 years. I don’t care what kind of money they r paying him, just should have kept the years down. A 2 year $30 mill with a 3rd year option should have been what we offered”
Yanks gambled some by letting it get this far. Posada responded with a tremendous season. Hindsight is always 20/20, but making a run at extending him prior to last year or two years ago for additional years may have made some sense.
Too bad you have to be an insider to read Busters blog. I would never give NESPN any of my money but I like hearing what he has to say.
on my fantisy team i had possada for chatcher now that he is done who should i pich up?
1.a.j. persinsky
2.k. jojima
3.d. nevaro
4.g. zaun
5.paul la duca
a grammar lesson/dictionary
I think the list of people i wouldn’t trade Igawa for is shorter than the list of people i would trade Igawa for. Getting Washburn for Igawa would be AWESOME!!!
Well you hear it here first: Igawa’s first 3 starts with the Angels
22 innings 3 ER 2BB
Brandon –
It is taking some time to translate – ‘Get the hell out of our organization’ into Japanese!
Brandon- I agree and seriously why isn’t this deal done yet. He absolutely kills at YS put him in pinstripes today.
Here’s what Buster has to say about Washburn, Al:
Yankees looking at Seattle lefty Washburn
Tuesday, July 22, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry
The Yankees are not expected to make a blockbuster deal before the trade deadline, but they are seeking ways to upgrade their rotation and are taking a serious look at Seattle lefty Jarrod Washburn.
The overall numbers for the 33-year-old are not good — 4-9, 4.75 ERA — but Washburn has been throwing better the past two months, posting a 2.93 ERA in June and a 3.16 ERA in July.
The Yankees could pencil Washburn into the rotation for next year, when they move to the new Yankee Stadium, whose dimensions (like the current Yankee Stadium) generally serve left-handers better than right-handers. Washburn has a 2.82 ERA in six starts in Yankee Stadium over the course of his career.
The Yankees are hopeful that Andy Pettitte will return in 2009, but he is eligible for free agency and has talked about retiring after each of the past two years, and Mike Mussina is also eligible for free agency, so they are looking for depth in their rotation for now and the future.
Washburn is slated to make $9.85 million in 2009.
hahaha but in all fairness, what dictionary has Kenji Johnjima in it??
*Johjima
this totally made me sad to read. I always like Tony Kubek. Anyone know why he has such a disdain for Steinbrenner. It’s a shame that he has been so not involved in baseball and wont make it back to see the stadium close its doors, buit I guess if you have never watched a baseball game in over 10 years it must not be that important to him
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....-new-life/
You’d hate to stunt his development as a hitter, but Gardner could be quite an asset as a pinch runner down the stretch.
Patrick â„¢
thats cool. you just say statments and leave! nice way for a looser.
how about writing something about baseball ha?
Oh i forgot you know nothing about baseball you just need a place where to give out your miserable life. Go ahead brother keep on your bleeding lifestyle! Never forget we are talking baseball here!!!!
I would hardly compare Mo and Pettitte to Pedro and Damon, etc… Boston let guys go that they felt weren’t good enough at their age to continue to be productive and stay healthy.
Damon has been good for us at times, but has had his injuries and slow starts too. Pedro hasn’t exactly done much for the Mets either.
And since you mention Pettitte as a comparison, when exactly did we give him a 4 or 5 year deal at his age? Mariano is ageless, “the Boston model” wouldn’t have let him go either.
I’ve always liked Mussina and he’s been a huge bonus this year. But if you’re going to sit here and tell us you knew he would do as well as he has this year after watching him struggle the last 2 years beforehand, I’m calling foul.
Thanks Rishi.
Why isn’t this finalized someone get a translator and tell Kei to GTFO !
Washburn’s with the Mariners, no Angels now
Hmm, wonder if ‘ã‚‚ã†ã€ 出ã¦ãれよ’ conveys the right sense of our feelings for Igawa…or is grammatically correct, for that matter…bleh, my Japanese is getting rusty.
“So if we follow the Boston model – Mariano is gone right? Pettitte is gone? Moose is gone?”
Pettitte and Moose are working on short term deals and if you recall there were 2-3 seasons in Moose’s prior contract that people were grousing about. Mariano’s deal was more a lifetime achievment award that has worked out well thus far.
“And the comparison between ‘Tek and Posada is ridiculous.”
It is if you’re comparing their bats. It’s not if you’re comparing their respective values to their team. Varitek still won’t get more than a couple of years, but he has some value to their organization.
TK-
Moose is still under his last contract. Pettitte has been a 1 year signing. Mo is the only xfactor. you can’t compare Mo to any other situation. He is just so damn good. But yes, we should not give Andy or Moose anything but one year contract from this point on. it would be dumb and only put us in a bad position. Boston is very smart about realistically evaluating a player. If Johnny Damon did for us what he did for them, we would have given him a ludacrous contract.
And i’m not comparing ‘tek and Posada, i’m just saying we were put in an awkward position because Posada had a career year, numbers he’ll never see again. ‘Tek is making the decision about his future very easy for the Sox with the type of play he’s been displaying this year. i wasn’t comparing the two, just comparing their similar situations, being catchers in a big market city in their contract years. I bet ‘Tek doesn’t get anything close to 4 years from Boston, even though, given what he’s done in the past for them, one could argue he deserves it, but thats not how Boston does things, nor should it be how any teams does things. You don’t give a player a new contract for what he did 6 years ago, especially a 4 year at the age of 36.
Mariano Rivera is unique and the Yankees did absolutely the right thing by signing him for all that money this past post-season. While it might seem ridiculous to give that kind of money to a closer–especially one who was 37 years old–Rivera is, like I said, unique.
Mo is in perfect physical shape. He is also in perfect mental shape. He lost 2-3mph off of his fastball several years ago, but is still effective. And he’s maintained the speed on that fastball over the past couple of seasons, which suggests he’ll continue to throw 94–which is plenty, given his command and the movement on that one amazing pitch of his.
But beyond his skills on the field, he has functioned as a “coach” to young players for quite some time. And he continues to do so. He has had a big hand in helping to transform E-Ram and Veras into quality relievers. And the Yanks knew this about Mo going into negotiations this past winter–they knew that, in signing him, they’d get a closer AND a guy who’d help every one of their young pitchers to be better. How many dollars has it been worth to the Yankees to get quality bullpen work out of E-Ram and Veras?
would they really take igawa…?
maybe they haven’t seen him pitch yet?
JoeyA… I think you are referring to the wrong Washburn… we are talking about the one who is on the Mariner’s not the one on the Angels… sorry to burst your bubble.
TEXT MESSAGE FROM CASHMAN TO KEI: GTFO NOW!
That 4th year killed us. Who else was going to give him that 4th year, but the Yankees? He’s just a DH now, and for the next three years.
Clay:
The hardest part about the blog is making sure I update it regularly.
I missed one week in May while I was in Italy, and I went from about 200 views a day to 80–and I had a couple friends guest post as well!
I pay for mine, but only for the domain–that is, I’m just paying so my url is http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com instead of http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.blogspot.com
It’s an incredible, amazing experience though–I’ve met tons of people because I’ve done it, learned way more about baseball and the Yankees as a whole, and actually feel like I’m doing something worthwhile
“He’s just a DH now, and for the next three years.”
Why are so many people convinced it’s impossible for Posada to catch again? he’s got an injury, will have surgery, and then we’ll see how his throwing is.
I’m no doctor, but am I missing something that indicates it’s impossible for him to catch again after this surgery???
SamVA- The M’s taking Igawa is a PR move they have many Japanese sponsors and would serve them well to have 3 Japanese players on the roster.
I still have zero issues with either of these signings (I actually have a bigger problem with the ARod contract). First, the big question mark over the off-season was the bullpen- it has been a pleasant surprise that they are as good as they are and if Mo didn’t come back it would throw everything in disarray- from Joba starting to having one K. Farnsworth as closer. Mo’s mechanics are solid, he hasn’t had substantial arm issues and has been used relatively prudently in his career.
For Jorge, same issue- there were potentially three main holes in the line-up- if ARod departed and Giambi continued his decline, the loss of Jorge would have been huge. There are limited free agent replacements and nothing in the farm system. I think we all assumed the breakdowns would ahve occured at the end of his contract, but by then the Matsui/Giamibi/Damon DH issues would have been resolved with all of them gone at that time.
Chris and Joey –
You guys are fans of the Boston model – that is totally defensible given how they have done. I’m just saying that every situation is different and their approach would have probably been against extensions for Moose (it was a 2 year deal iirc) and Posada and Mariano.
They made an exception last time when they extended Tek and Boras held them up for a bunch of money for a declining offensive player.
We’ll see how they handle Pap when becomes an FA – that should be an interesting test case because he turned down an early deal and has enough ego that he will want to set the market after K-Rod signs a gigantic deal this off-season.
SamVA-
WOW…. DAMN!! huige mix-up on my part. thanks for pointing that out.
Either way, either one is well worth Kei Igawa.
Kay to Kei: SEE YA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’d trade igawarts for almost anything. But for a major league starter, I gonna carve him up real nice.
that guy was a strikeout king in Japan? Inconceivable!!!
Actually Rebecca, the Yanks have had a good record in 1 run games all season, and are at 19-11. Only Texas and Milwaukee are better. They’ve won a number more 2-1 games than lost – it’s just a matter of incorrect perception. We remember frustration better than success – particularly here on this board!
I’ve heard a lot about IPK’s “projection” as a 4 or 5 starter. Completely related to the experts being tools junkies – in the case of pitchers, that’s about velocity. How’s that projection for Homer Bailey holding up? Don’t forget that Kennedy was BA’s AND MiLB’s Minors Pitcher of Year last year. If that projects to 5th starter potential, well, when does performance start to overtake projection?
I know he struggled this year, but most young starters do – again, look at Bailey. That doesn’t mean Bailey is worthless. Gavin Floyd was very highly rated a few years ago, but struggled in the minors for some time, Philly got frustrated and moved him to the Chisox for Freddy Garcia. Now he’s blossomed. Takes some guys a while. A smart GM will try to pick a guy like that off when his org has lost some faith in him. I hope Cash hasn’t gotten to that point, but you’ve got to give something to get something.
A lot has been made here of the Yanks counting on too many rooks in the rotation for this season. But if you look closely, they had 3 guys (including Joba, who was always ticketed for there) for 2 spots, with some other guys with some experience as backup options. All 3 performed well in the majors last year – Joba and Phil in quite a few IP, and IPK was incredible across 3 minors levels and solid in 3 Sept. NY starts. The talk at the start of the year was when would Joba displace an expectedly shaky Moose in the rotation.
Funny game, baseball.
“We’ll see how they handle Pap when becomes an FA”
So we’re going to revisit this after the 2011 season??? Cool. I’ll be here. (:
TK, I will never use the words “I; fan; and Boston” in the same sentence…. I don’t know that I’m a fan of their model as much as just saying they’ve done a better job of sticking to their guns when veterans asked for too many years. 2 years for Moose isn’t what I’m talking about. mainly, I think 4 was too much for Posada, but I’m also not saying we should have let him walk.
The reality is, maybe Posada would have walked without the 4th year. If that were the case, Cashman did the right thing because we had no better options and Posada was MUCH more important to this team than Damon was to the Red Sox.
All I’m really saying that they did right was let Damon and Pedro go when they knew their time was up. now, that could have easily bitten them in the butt (and did, briefly, in the Boston massacre), but they played Damon and Pedro correctly, as hindsight shows.
Further, NO TEAM on this or any other planet, would have let Mariano walk until he’s walking to a golf cart and retirement.
wasn’t all this “igawa for washburn” talk just a suggestion by Olney as to what it would take to do the trade? Did anyone hear any actual credible reports that such a deal would do it, has been proposed, or will be proposed?
Sounds like people are running wild with a trade that hasn’t even been proposed.
I’ve actually suffered a torn labrum and know what it feels like, to put it simply, it sucks. I had 2 options, 1) relax it for 2 years and let it heal on its own, 2) get surgery, go through PT, and be back in 6 months with a small possibility of never being able to throw again. I took the 2 years but obviously Posada can’t do that. I know people who have opted for the surgery though, and 6-7 months later, they were fine (except for one, who can no longer throw a ball to first, and he played 2nd, ouch). Posada will be able to catch again, but his arm strength will probably be down a bit for the first few months. It takes a while to get it all back, especially at his age, where everything isn’t going to heal as quickly as a 20 year old. I’m fairly confident that he will be able to catch for another year and a half, maybe 2, when he comes back.
nyyfaninlaaland
Solid post. Since you brought up Gavin Floyd, same could be said about John Danks. The ChiSox took their lumps with those guys last year and look how it has paid off for them? People don’t understand the term “patience” and how we need to have it with young pitchers.
“Giving a catcher at Posada’s age a four year deal was a bad idea from the start.”
Absolutely. I never understood the argument that they HAD to sign Posada and Rivera. And the idea that committing to those contracts at their ages was a good idea but committing to Santana would have been too risky is mindboogling to me. I would have rather have waved goodbye to both and have acquired santana.
I could live with a platoon of Molina and someone else and tried to find more offense somewhere else to make up for the loss of Posada’s bat. Besides, its pitching and defense that win championships and not offensive firepower.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Posada’s a great guy and I like the idea in the abstract of these guys retiring as Yankees but to lock into these contracts at their age when it limits your ability to do other things to help your team was foolish.
Sounds like people are running wild with a trade that hasn’t even been proposed.
Olney didn’t suggest it he said the Yankees are(keyword) having serious discussions for Washburn. (Igawa is said to be the price).
tradetradegrumblegrumble…..would the Pirates accept a couple of trade-happy LoHud posters AND Ian Kennedy for Nady and Paulino?
anyways….Pete, I don’t know what to say about this. I mean, would you really have let Posada walk at the end of last year? I feel almost resigned to having Mariano, Posada, and Jeter walking around Yankee Stadium with walkers and sitting at the end of the bench in 2020. I don’t see how you ever allow them to wear another uniform, and I’m someone who preaches common sense often on here.
I think you’re dead on on why “move him to first” is not the right answer. He’d also be a defensive liability there. Depending on how this surgery goes, Cashman may have another need to fill on his hands in the off-season.
Were both these chances worth taking, though? Absolutely. Would I have signed him, ten times out of ten, to that contract? Yes.
The problem with Kennedy is more that New York’s press and fans will not let him take his lumps and develop at the major league level–there will always be somebody better that could possibly take his place. When he was getting bombed it was time to label him a bust and move on to the next story, or move on to the next player the Yankees need, etc.
I like Kennedy and I want to see him succeed with the Yankees, as soon as this year (if all this Jarrod Washburn talk doesn’t lead to a trade). That said, the talk of his projections is more about his “stuff”, and that seems to get valued in trade talks as much as performance and numbers. He could pitch his way to more importance in the bigs than a 4th or 5th starter, but the scouting reports wouldn’t dictate that, so that’s what he gets pegged as until he proves otherwise.
I just think it’s funny how quickly fans sour on young pitchers who aren’t Joba Chamberlain-like successes right when they get to the majors.
3 years with a club option for the fourth year-ever discussed?
I love Jorge Posada … I love his heart and determination and everything he has meant to the pinstripes. That being said, this was not a good idea signing him for 4 years … whether or not we want to be loyal to certain players, the team still needs to weight that against the benefits/risks for the current team and future years … anyone wondering what the story will be when Jeter’s contract comes up? It’s a bit easier, he doesn’t pitch or catch so some injuries aren’t as threatening … but it will be pretty interesting to see how far the organization will go to keep the face of the franchise.
BG – the fact is Posada was the best thing available on the market, in a year when the Yanks faced a whole there. Molina is a fine defensive C, but is the prototypical backup guy. That body isn’t made to handle 135 games. Plus the Yanks tradition of hnging on to their homegrowns held some weight – only Pettitte of those type guys has left, and he’s back.
Financial flexibility wasn’t an issue in the deal either – the Yanks knew what they had coming off the books in ‘08 – ‘10. So taking on a couple of contracts wasn’t a problem. And with Giambi and Matsui leaving if not worthy of extensions after this year and next, DH would open up for Posada in the last 2 years of the deal.
The Yanks weren’t as concerned about Santana’s contract as his cost in players, but a 7 year deal for a starting pitcher in his 30’s is inherently risky financially. Especially one with some indications of potential decline. Pitchers just get hurt more often and more seriously than players. If Santana was facing the injury Posada has, he’d be gone for up to 18 months.
“BG – the fact is Posada was the best thing available on the market, in a year when the Yanks faced a whole there. Molina is a fine defensive C, but is the prototypical backup guy. That body isn’t made to handle 135 games. Plus the Yanks tradition of hnging on to their homegrowns held some weight – only Pettitte of those type guys has left, and he’s back.”
I agree with this but I don’t think they need a star at every position. I said had Molina platoon with someone as an option because I recognize that it might have been a lot to ask him to play 135 to 140 games. Would it have been idea, probably not, but its better than handicapping yourself both financially and in roster flexibility if Posada wasn’t going to be able to catch at the backend of the contract.
Even though I wouldn’t have done it, I didn’t mind it at the time because I thought if they overpaid Jorge at the backend of his contract more power to him and didn’t think it would impact other decisions.
It seems that it clearly did. I think elite starting pitchers are the one position you do need to advance in the playoffs and should be willing to pay up for. And Santana is not in his thirties, he’s 29 and was only 28 when the trade was being discussed. I have no doubt in my mind, that the trade was not done for financial reasons rather than being afraid to swap Hughes for Santana. Even before his struggles this year, you’d have to be crazy to assume that Hughes would be the better pitcher over the next 5-6 years.
Pete -
I think you totally missed the big picture here. Brian Cashman completely screwed up the Rodriguez, Posada and Rivera contracts by playing hardball with them in the spring of 07. The Yankees had no replacements anywhere close to the MLB level for any of them and he let all 3 become free agents and have all the leverage. He literally cost the Yankees over 100 million dollars 5 years for Rodriguez, 2 years for Posada and an extra year for Rivera because he has no vision or guts. The odds of a 36 year old catcher being a good investment for 4 years are really low. Cashman should never have let Posada get to the point where he could shop around and force the Yankees to match. All you media guys buy the garbage Cashman sells about the Yankees needing to be home grown and cost controlled. Well the 95-01 team had just as many key players acquired by trading minor leaguers as they did home grown key players, maybe even more. Cashman is scared to make trades and has no idea which minor leaguers to sell high on and which ones to keep. Melky and Kennedy both should have been moved last off season. Neither player will ever have the value they did in the winter of 07 again. The best thing that could happen to the Yankees this winter is that all of their free agents get offered arbitration and everyone of them leaves except Pettitte or Mussina. With Cashman being the first one out the door.