Today in The Journal News
-
- July
- 23
As the trade deadline approaches, Darrell Rasner did the job for the Yankees last night.
Jorge Posada had his shoulder checked out. This notebook also has updates on Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, some Old Timers and Brian Bruney.
Twins-Yanks this afternoon. Mike Mussina against Glen Perkins.
——————
Over in Queens, Sam Borden watchede the latest collapse of the Mets and wondered why Johan Santana didn’t stay in the game.
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, July 23rd, 2008 at 2:49 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Some of those Santana quotes make me feel better that the Yankees didn’t get him. He doesn’t seem like a team player. Every single one of the Yankees starters are team players, so maybe I’m spoiled. They all take responsibility, they NEVER point fingers, and even when teammates make errors that cost them runs, they never put the blame on them.
I’m done for tonight, but my friend sent me something that made me crack up like crazy.
A-Rod pimp hand
Goodnight everybody, I wonder what Katie was thinking
Minor news: Bo Hall traded to Houston
http://yankeesmtom.blogspot.com/
This is insane. Pete has been bashing Santana endlessly since last offseason. Then Pete comes off like a completely unprepared dude when he incorrecotly states that Santana is “just a six inning pitcher” even though Santana pitches beyond 6 innings at a 70% clip for his career, whereas a known workhorse like Wang has done it 62% of the time. Then, in a start where Johan goes 8 innings with 2 runs allowed and hands a 3 run lead over to the bullpen, somehow Johan is still at fault here? You LoHud guys are being ridiculously unfair to him.
The story of this game is not Johan’s lack of protesting the manager’s decision to take him out of the game. Managers should never let the players run game for them. Ask Joe Torre, he has said many times that when a pitcher protests his decision to remove him from the game, Torre tells the reliever that Torre isn’t doing his job as manager if he lets the pitcher make the decisions for him. Manuel pulled Santana from the game, Santana did not pull himself. And besides that, the story of this game is obviously that the bullpen blew a 3-run lead in the 9th inning. Even a replacement level reliever should be able to hold a 3 run lead for one inning. And the collective bunch couldn’t do it. What the hell is wrong with you guys. That is the focus. Focus on the bullpen. They blew it, not Johan.
Unbelieveable.
Maybe the Mets should get upgrade their bullpen and get some replacement level relief pitchers.
If Robinson Cano continues his current rise in batting average in a linear fashion, he should end the season with a batting average between .320 and .335 and an obp of .360+. The linear regression I am using to calculate this has a correlation of .916. To end the season with a BA of .320, Cano would need to finish the season with a BA of .465.
Santana’s team has constantly let him down with poor run support and defense, yes as an ace he needs to pick up the defense from time to time but there is only so much you can do. If he were on a team that gave him a bit better run support, played better behind him, and didn’t have so many liabilities in the bullpen – he’d have 13 wins easy by now. I agree that he may lack a bit of intensity in not campaigning to stay in games longer, but stats wise there’s not a whole lot to criticize. Nobody jumped on Mussina in 2001 for not winning 20 games after he got a big contract from the Yankees. Let’s not forget in terms of whining and excuse making, Mussina has had the NY pitching market cornered on those 2 counts since he’s been here so none of that should be anything new either.
Santana has started 21 games this season. he hs been credited with 8 wins. Only one time did he allow more than 3 runs in any of those Wins. So it seems that he has earned just about every single one of those wins, except maybe that one start.
Now here are some other games where he definitely pitched well but didn’t get a win:
Apr6: 7IP, 1ER, ND
May4: 6IP, 1ER, ND
Jun6: 6IP, 1ER, L
Jun12: 7IP, 0ER, ND
Jun23: 7IP, 1ER, L
Jul4: 8IP, 2ER, L
Jul22: 8IP, 2ER, ND
And there are a couple of other non-wins where he didn’t pitch poorly:
Apr29: 5.2IP, 2ER, ND
May22: 7IP, 3ER, L
Jun28: 6IP, 3ER, L
5 of his losses make this list. Notice all 5 of those losses were quality starts. he should probably have 6 more wins or so. The fact that people are saying he is having a bad year is pretty crazy when you look at his consistent results. The 24 guys around him just haven’t done that good of a job around him when he has pitched.
Here’s a metaphor that describes the situation:
Let’s imagine I am part of a 25-man team that makes frozen 4-cheese ravioli dinners. And every time I’m on a shift, I take my syringe and I expertly inject the pasta with goat cheese (my task) and I have like a 99.4% success rate of successful goat cheese injection, and when my raviolis go on to the next man on my team, ready for edam infusion, they are just perfectly formed and looking tasty and delicious. And by the time they reach the end of the assembly line, they are torn to shreds, leaking gouda, and somehow covered in bat feces—so bad are the other men on Team Ravioli.
So my boss, Hunt Sperkleman, C.E.O. of Sperkleman Four Cheese Ravioli and Penne Arrabiata, Inc. (NASDAQ Ticker: SFCR: 92.50, +10.68, +13.1% as of Monday, 12:02 PM EST, thanks to rumors of a takeover bid from Sheinhardt Wigs), comes down to the assembly line, and he looks around and he sees all the morons on my team. He sees W.K. Horflitz, whose nose is running directly into the pasta cutter. He sees Janet Przyblr, who’s on the phone, gabbing with her new husband, as chunk after chunk of unmelted brie just goes rolling by on the assembly line. He sees them all, and he says: “Ken! You’re disappointing me!” and I say: “Why, Hunt?” and he says, “Only 8 out of 15 people who eat these raviolis like them!” and I say, “But I did my job!” and he says, “You can go ahead and end this metaphor now—I think people get the idea.”
Your metaphor is a little cheesy.
Johan Santana has pitched 7 or more innings while allowing 3 earned runs or fewer in 11 of his 21 starts this season.
The entire Yankee pitching staff, in 100 games this season, has done this 15 times.
Ken Log,
Unless you are one of the guys from
firejoemorgan.com….you just plaguerized (sic?) it’s late screw you…their entire post from today.
Come on…if you’re gonna copy paste the entire entry please provide a link to where it’s from.
mmmm…cheese…
So is this Washburn guy actually an upgrade over Ponson or Rasner?
It would excite me in the least to acquire Washburn. He’s not that big of an upgrade over Ponson or Rasner.
I’d be more excited if they turned the assets they would use in a Washburn trade and get Raul Ibanez. I know Ibanez would be a rental, but Brett Gardner seems to be regressing and not improving. They absolutely need to replace him ASAP.
Um, readic? That was a Sam Borden piece, not Pete’s.
...yawn… this is a Yankees blog right? what are all these Mets fans doing here?
I didn’t watch the Mets game, so when I saw the tease “wondered why Santana didn’t stay in the game,” my first thought was he must have only pitched 6 or 7 innings. But the guy pitched 8 innings. Sure maybe he could have asked to pitch the 9th, but it’s really hard to fault Santana for giving up 2 runs in 8 innings. Last night was all on the Mets bullpen collapsing.
What Santana does or does not do has no bearing on how I feel about the non-trade by the Yankees. Santana’s numbers are good for the Mets this year; he’s pitched well enough to have won more games. It was a horrible loss for the Mets last night.
The Washburn stuff is intriguing. Seems like another one of the low-risk, possible high reward situations that Cashman likes. The fact that he’s a lefty and wouldn’t cost much in the way of prospects is what makes it interesting.
I don’t think the Yankees have a real need for a lefty in the bullpen this season – the pen has been marvelous. But if they can get someone now that will be around and effective next season, maybe it’s not a bad move. But I have to say I’m hesitant for them to mess with what’s been working and that includes bringing back Bruney or any of the others in the minors. Hawkins is, I suppose, the only expendable one out there right now.
Changes…they are a coming….
Just opened the Star Ledger, and it looks like Dan Graziano is with Sam Borden. The focus is more on Manuel’s decision though, not that Santana should have fought to stay in.
Oops. Finished reading the Graziano piece. He also thinks that as the ace of the staff Santana should have challenged Manuel to stay in the game.
Me? I don’t know. I still think it’s reasonable to expect even a patched together bullpen to save a 3-run lead for one inning.
Tony Pena Jr. pitched a scoreless inning … Maybe the Mets should trade for him
I’m sorry but WHAT?
Why does Borden keep writing these stupid articles and why does Pete keep linking to them.
The bashing of Santana here is downright ridiculous. He pitched 8 innings last night, gave up 2 runs and handed over a 3 run lead, and is getting blamed for the loss!!! Un-friking-believable.
“Why does Borden keep writing these stupid articles and why does Pete keep linking to them.”
because they work for the same paper, and there is prob much more traffic on this side of the ledger than the Mets side.
the higher the volume on the mets blog, and the paper’s website in general, the more they can charge for advertising on those webpages.
cash rules everything around me!
as important as that win was, or on the flip side, that loss is now, Johan needed to be out on that mound to at least start the 9th inning… but i’m sure that wasnt really his decision, and it was Manuel’s call, so i’m not going to sit here and blame Santana for that loss last night.
on the yankees side, while Rasner pitched well, and i thought he was squeezed and still pitched effectively thru 5 innings, the Yankees would be well served to upgrade his spot in the rotation, whether its Jarrod Washburn, Derek Lowe, or one of the several other pitchers that i’m sure is available at the right price that we dont know aboutyet.
the reason the Washburn trade looks so temtping is because you can basically upgrade the rotation with a salary dump, and still be able to get a RH bat with the prospects you didnt have to use to play LF.
The decision to pull Santana was the correct one. He already had 105 pitches, which is enough for a guy who has a value of $130m. As pointed out above, even the worst BPs should be able to be counted on to hold a 3 run lead.
Had Santana stayed in and blown the game (however unlikely), they would have been calling for Manuel’s head.
Had Santana followed this game with some poor ones, due to throwing 115+ pitches this game, they would have been calling for Manuel’s head.
Had Santana gotten injured, Manuel would have been publicly drawn and quartered, and his head posted on a spike outside of Shea stadium.
It was a tough break for Santana, Manuel and the Mutts. But sh*t happens. 8 IP and 105 pitches is enough for a guy who has to maintain his quality for another 5 years.
OYF –
The decisions are always easier the next day, aren’t they? Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
But the bottom line is the Mets bullpen SHOULDA been able to hold a 3-run lead.
anyone checked the weather? is this game gonna happen today?
“The story of this game is not Johan’s lack of protesting the manager’s decision to take him out of the game.”
Yes it is and I would have it no other way.
love the washburn idea. he’s only a slight improvement over what he have now, but we can’t expect to go through half the season without at least a few more missed starts. he’s not a huge upgrade over sidney/rasner but can throw alot of innings and give his team a chance. this guy was picked up by seattle thinking he’d be a #2 or 3, as a #4 he’s pretty good. he also had a good postseason in 2002, helping the angels win the series. he’s not great but would really settle the rotation and pretty much only cost dollars. i hope cash can pull it off.
“And the collective bunch couldn’t do it. What the hell is wrong with you guys. That is the focus. Focus on the bullpen. They blew it, not Johan.
Unbelieveable.”
Pettitte would have stayed in under Jerry Manuel.
“Then Pete comes off like a completely unprepared dude when he incorrecotly states that Santana is “just a six inning pitcher—
When someone says a pitcher is just a “six inning pitcher” you are taking it a bit too literally. You can pitch 7-8 innings per appearance but when you break down after six you are a six inning pitcher. The guy throws like 100 pitches every 6 innings. Go get me stats, list whatever the hell you want, and I’ll still come back and say “six inning pitcher.” Darrel Rasner is a 4-5 inning pitcher. Santana does NOT give them length.
A few facts about Jarrod Washburn:
(I hate to do this as I know most people here are only concerned with their opinions, and hate facts/stats… so forgive me).
Washburn’s career ERA+ is 108. Pretty decent. For 2006-2008, his ERA+s are: 95, 100, 84.
Washburn’s career WHIP is 1.310. Pretty decent. For 2006-2008, his WHIPs are: 1.353, 1.384, 1.482.
Over the three years 2005-2007, his OPSA lefties is .699.
Over the three years 2005-2007, his OPSA righties is .772.
So he is better against Lefties, but certainly not a ‘Lefty killer’.
He is 33 and getting paid: 08,$9.85M, 09,$10.35M with a limited no-trade clause.
My Opinion (vaue, 2 cents):
Me MAY be an upgrade over Raz, although this year, their numbers are almost identical. However, over the next 2 years, Raz makes $1m and Jarrod makes $20m.
So basically, comparing the 2, your MIGHT get better performance from Washburn at a cost of $14m. I’m sure many here think Yankee money is no object (not true: see Beltran, Carlos). Plus, there is a chance that we will get some productive starts before Oct. from Wang and/or Hughes.
IMHO, Washburn is a waste of money and a very minor upgrade at best, to a team who’s problem is offense/RISP, not pitching. Does anyone see Washburn as part of our 2009 rotation?
‘Go get me stats, list whatever the hell you want, and I’ll still come back and say “six inning pitcher.‒—————————————————————————————-
Good deal Russell. Who needs stats/facts when we have ‘what you say’.
Can we stop defending Santana, I’m trying to enjoy the Phillies game last night as much as I humanly can.
dont see what the big santana problem is, he’s a very good pitcher. maybe not as great as he was in minny but still very good. he pitched a gem last night. not his fault.
as for the 6-inning tag, its not appropriate for johan. not only does he go past 6 more than most, he also has had to be removed a few times b/c despite pitching well, the mets needed runs. i think its an unfair knock.
and im still very happy that the yankees didnt make the trade, and im hopeing we don’t sign any pitcher for longer than 5 years this winter. nothing against c.c. or anyone else but 6 and 7 year huge-money pither’s contracts are insane.
“as a #4 he’s pretty good.”—- so you would say an ERA+ of 84 is pretty good?
“he also had a good postseason in 2002”—- dude, your are aware that 2002 was SIX YEARS AGO… right?
“IMHO, Washburn is a waste of money and a very minor upgrade at best, to a team who’s problem is offense/RISP, not pitching. Does anyone see Washburn as part of our 2009 rotation?”
I can think of a few arguments here #1 Washburn is a lefty which is AWESOME at Yankee Stadium. #2 People change when they come to the Yankees, I see it all the time. If Washburn changes for the good, he will be a definite upgrade over Rasner. #3 It’s hard to compare stats on a one-year basis considering both players have played different teams this year, in diff conditions. #4 Who knows with Rasner. #5 Unloading Igawa is a possibility (reason enough) and #6 Including Jose Vidro in the deal is a good idea… though he has declined quite a bit he has been a productive hitter before
“and even when teammates make errors that cost them runs, they never put the blame on them.”
Mike Mussina says hello.
I can’t believe people are even blaming Santana at all. It was Manuel’s decision and teh BP’s blowup plain & simple.
““and even when teammates make errors that cost them runs, they never put the blame on them.â€
Mike Mussina says hello.”
This could be my Yankee bias (:)) but Mussina does it to motivate, Santana does it because he is a whiny little rat!!! =P
“This could be my Yankee bias (:)) but Mussina does it to motivate, Santana does it because he is a whiny little rat!!! =P”
Yup, that’s your Yankee bias alright. Mussina acts like a crap weasel whenever errors are made behind him. He’s not motivating, he’s being an ass. He’s pitched well this year, so people overlook it, me included, but let’s call a spade a spade here.
After the Sabathia and Harden deals, top of the line available starters dropped off but Washburn may be the best of the remaining lot and being LH doesn’t hurt his case.
The Yankees are woefully thin with lefthanders in the farm system and Igawa has proven he’s not the answer.
Cashman may seize the opportunity knowing he can rid himself of the Igawa disaster with Igawa’s $$$ and Washburn’s $$ being a virtual wash.
Cashman will still have enough chips left to get the needed RH bat with 8 days remaining until the deadline.
Washburn is an upgrade over Rasner, and he’ll cost nothing but money. its pretty simple to me.
again, you can either use prospects to upgrade to get a pitcher, or you can use your financial advantages to basically buy a veteran starting pitcher who upgrades your staff and only requires a short term commitment along with using prospects to upgrade the offensive with a RH bat for LF.
“Me MAY be an upgrade over Raz, although this year, their numbers are almost identical. However, over the next 2 years, Raz makes $1m and Jarrod makes $20m.”
“Washburn has about $4 million of his $9.85-million salary remaining this year, plus another $10.35 million next year, meaning he’s owed close to $15 million.”
I understand the Yanks don’t spend freely on everything (especially wanting to bring down the payroll a bit) but I can’t think of one good reason why the Yanks wouldn’t want to take on a one-year burden-less contract. The Yanks don’t want BIG CONTRACTS meaning long-term tie-me-down contracts. His is making under 15 million for the rest of this year and next then he isn’t a contractual issue. The Yank’s aren’t worried about the money on this one.
“Cashman may seize the opportunity knowing he can rid himself of the Igawa disaster with Igawa’s $$$ and Washburn’s $$ being a virtual wash.
Cashman will still have enough chips left to get the needed RH bat with 8 days remaining until the deadline.”
exactly!
Get Washburn to replace Rasner. DFA or deal Hawkins. Put Rasner in the bullpen as a long man / spot starter and ready in case Ponson self destructs. Situation solved.
“Cashman may seize the opportunity knowing he can rid himself of the Igawa disaster with Igawa’s $$$ and Washburn’s $$ being a virtual wash.”
It’s reading now like Seattle isn’t willing to take Igawa’s contract without another salary dump player.
Maybe Santana’s lost his patience with the “team” thing…getting only 1 win in 8 quality starts can do that to a person, even an ace.
The Mets coughed it up yet again, don’t blame Santana, don’t blame Willie. They find new ways to lose. Blame Minaya & Co.
P.S. Leave Moose outta this, it’s Moose being Moose =)
“Yup, that’s your Yankee bias alright. Mussina acts like a crap weasel whenever errors are made behind him. He’s not motivating, he’s being an ass. He’s pitched well this year, so people overlook it, me included, but let’s call a spade a spade here”
Whatever Mussina does (as a Yankee) is right and whatever Santana does (as a Met) is wrong. I’m going to decide to call a spade a club. My team isn’t perfect but right now I’m having fun dissing Johan Sand-tuna. Pettitte would have gone out there, Mussina would have argued to stay in. MOOOOOOOOSEEEEEEE. Mussina is motivating, that’s how I look at it.
“P.S. Leave Moose outta this, it’s Moose being Moose =)”
Exactly. Moose was only brought up because some Yankee fan said our team never disses anyone, and a Red Sox fan (who frequents the Yankee blog) decided to call Moose out on it. But it’s just Moose being Moose so it’s moot point.
As listed by Cot Deal’s Baseball Contracts :
Kei Igawa lhp
5 years/$20M (2007-11)
signed 12/06
07:$4M, 08:$4M, 09:$4M, 10:$4M, 11:$4M
may earn $0.5M annually in performance bonuses
$0.125M each for 180, 190, 200 & 210 IP
Yankees bid $26,000,194 for negotiating rights with Igawa 11/06
posted by Hanshin Tigers of Japanese League 11/06
agent: Arn Tellum
ML service: 0.095
“Mussina would have argued to stay in”
Mussina would have been out of the game an hour earlier after putting in his 6 innings…....but if you’re having fun with it, run with it. (:
“Get Washburn to replace Rasner. DFA or deal Hawkins. Put Rasner in the bullpen as a long man / spot starter and ready in case Ponson self destructs. Situation solved.”
Exactly. Rasner is brilliant until the 4-5 inning so he should be the long man.
“Mussina would have been out of the game an hour earlier after putting in his 6 innings…….but if you’re having fun with it, run with it. (:”
I’m having a boat load of fun with it.
If Moose was pitching in the NL against the weak competition he would have been 6+, not 6.
It’s kinda like Red Sox pitchers in Fenway, like playing baseball in a 12 and under softball league.
Question didn’t Jerry say he was going to push his pitchers to pitch further into the game? So why did he pull Johan with 105 pitches in the 8th? Why not let him complete the game?
He threw a rock at Willie, yet he pulled his best pitcher knowing he didn’t have a closer.
Also the METS LIED TO EVERYONE!! They said that Billy was available, than he didn’t pitch!
“Question didn’t Jerry say he was going to push his pitchers to pitch further into the game? So why did he pull Johan with 105 pitches in the 8th? Why not let him complete the game?”
His post-game he said all the balls in the later innings were being hit real hard off Santana (hence the late homer). That’s why he got pulled.
But pulling Santana in the 8th after quite a few hard hit balls after the 6th inning qualifies him as “more than a 6 inning pitcher”... I guess.
“Washburn is a lefty which is AWESOME at Yankee Stadium.”—- Incorrect. Not AWESOME. Maybe a slight advantage, depending on the pitcher. As a forinstance, this year, our own Andy Pettitte (LHP) has a better ERA on the road then at YS. In GENERAL, because YS has a short RF and deep LF, LHBs have a better chance of hitting a HR then RHBs. This is very general, and over a large samplr size may hold true. However, what is truly AWESOME at Yankee Stadium is: GOOD PITCHING. Do you think Washburn, a LHP is better at YS then Wang, a RHP. And as I stated before, Washburn is not that much better against LHB then RHB. Its the same with BP pitching. A Good RHP is better then an AVERAGE/BELOW AVERAGE LHP… even at Yankee Stadium
“People change when they come to the Yankees, I see it all the time.”—- This is just a REALLY dumb statement. Then I guess we can get ANY PLAYER in baseball, since they will be better when they come to the Yankees (like RJ, Wright, Vaquez, and a zillion others that failed in NY)
“It’s hard to compare stats on a one-year basis considering both players have played different teams this year, in diff conditions.”—- This is true although I looked at 3 years of Washburn. Also, FWIW, ERA+ is an adjusted stat. And for better or worst, adjusted stats are the best tool we have for comparing players. AND while they both pitch in the AL, since Rasner pitches in a tough AL East and Washburn is a soft AL West, wouldn’t you guess Rasner has gone against better hitters?
“Who knows with Rasner.”—- Well…. who knows with Washburn… aside from the fact he’s 33 and looks to be in decline. Really dude, is “Who knows with Rasner.” the way you present FACTS?
“Unloading Igawa is a possibility (reason enough)”—- Well, hard to argue with that, but Iggy isn’t exactly hurting us now.
“Including Jose Vidro in the deal is a good idea…”—- YOU CAN’T BE SERIOUS!!!!!!!
Jose Vidro 2008: $8,500,000: .221 .266 .317 .583 (Melky is absolutely killing us with his offense, which is SIXTY POINTS HIGHER then Vidro (a DH with ZERO defensive value). Please tell me WHY it is a ‘GOOD IDEA’ (the guy tells funny jokes? He’s got good reefer? He doesn’t mind doing laundry? WHY???) I mean, look, we got Sexson because both this year and in the past, he kills LHP. But Sexson was all but free. How much of Seattle’s garbage do you want? For $18m.
Why the Mussina hate? This team would be dead without him.
i want to keep igawa around to remind everyone including cashman that cashman does some really stupid things .
trying to save some money when he’s in his little napoleon mode( posada ,rivera,hughes, kennedy,etc) cashman ends up paying later with players that are only available because no one else will touch them at such a high price.
he could have signed livan hernandez for 5 million and had no problems with rushing rookies and delaying their professional advancement. they would be all tuned up and ready to be added to a pennant push if he would have been patient.
instead he’s interested in washburn with two more years of commitment at 15 milion +? how does that help flexibility in the next few years.
The Yankees need to guard against a letdown in today’s game. They need to treat it as passing the Twins in the Wild Card standings and if King Felix beats Buchholz and Boston, the Yankees can be just one game behind Boston in the loss column.
With a day off tomorrow it can give the team a good feeling about themselves going to Boston on Friday.
I’d rather see the Ras/Moeller experiment continue and see if he’s really pitching better with a personal catcher than have the Yankees use up a rotation spot and $10 million for 2009.
“Why the Mussina hate? This team would be dead without him.”
No hate. He’s been terrific. But he does get pissy when errors are made behind him. People were calling him out for it on this blog THIS YEAR before he’s put together such a nice season.
santana should get a pass for what he says b/c he’s new to the ny media market. he’s probably trying to brush off any type of critcism towards him b/c he knows how ruthless the media is here. he may not be saying it the right way, but i see where he’s coming from and what he’s trying to deal with.
with that said, he’s in the NL now. totally different league where he has to face some really bad 8 and 9 hitters. so he’s basically pitching to 7 guys instead of 9. big difference. it was a smart move for him to go there, probably extended his career 2-3 years.
but i’m glad he’s not with us. i think he gets beat up alot more in the AL and this would’ve only been year 1 of 6.
“The Yankees need to guard against a letdown in today’s game.”
Hasn’t Mussina done pretty well with the Twins over his career??? Plus the Twins really struggle away from that Dome. Yankees should be fine.
“Incorrect. Not AWESOME. Maybe a slight advantage”
lol
“Do you think Washburn, a LHP is better at YS then Wang, a RHP.”
Why are you comparing Washburn to Wang? Even to add any credibility to the LHP v RHP at YS argument makes no sense. Wang is a different caliber player. We’re talking about Washburn improving his performance, not comparing it to high quality pitchers.
“This is just a REALLY dumb statement. Then I guess we can get ANY PLAYER in baseball, since they will be better when they come to the Yankees (like RJ, Wright, Vaquez, and a zillion others that failed in NY)”
OK, so I guess he will fail. What’s the harm in being optimistic that a player will thrive under the NY spotlight? I guess you just had to throw that in there, like putting ketchup on a popsicle.
“Well…. who knows with Washburn… aside from the fact he’s 33 and looks to be in decline. Really dude, is “Who knows with Rasner.†the way you present FACTS?”
Really, DUDE, maybe his billion mediocre-at-best starts before yesterday has something to do with it. I can present things any way I choose – what fact are you going to show me, numbers, Yankee wins per game, all subjective. This is all opinion based, stop pawning that “FACT” crap off like it means something. Few things in baseball can be presented as FACT.
“Well, hard to argue with that, but Iggy isn’t exactly hurting us now.”
4 million per year to do nothing for the big league club = hurting.
“Please tell me WHY it is a ‘GOOD IDEA’ – Vidro”
6 years he hit over .300 in his career including .314 last year. I’m one to believe a player with those career numbers in a down year could benefit from a change in scenery.
If Moose thought he was still going strong, he would have pointed at Manuel as he came up the dugout steps and ordered him to sit back down … we’ve seen him do that!
Ugh, get these Mets fans outta here! Yeeesh!
If a bullpen can’t get 3 outs before giving up 4 runs, you don’t deserve to win the game. Few starters, even aces, go 9 anymore. The loss isn’t on Santana, it’s on the pen
Fredo Corleone July 23rd, 2008 at 8:41 am
“and even when teammates make errors that cost them runs, they never put the blame on them.â€
Mike Mussina says hello.————————————-
ROFL ROFL ROFL… yeah that season was a b*tch.
http://www.sbsun.com/sports/ci_9834330
interesting article about the dodgers having three roving minor league coaches to spread torre’s hitting philosophy.
so was torre the one who mostly influenced yankee hitting emphasizing patience the last 12 years?
in 2007 , was long just pushing torre’s approach ,and is this years drop off because long isn’t pushing what torre had him emphasize last year?
girardi was never a good hitter .i wonder if the combination of a weak hitting manager and a relatively new hitting coach the reason for the yankee drop off in hitting this year. if it is, one solution would be to get one of those three dodger coaches who’s teaching torre’s approach.
they’d let him go if he was offered a major league hitting coach job . their loss would be our gain.
“If Moose thought he was still going strong, he would have pointed at Manuel as he came up the dugout steps and ordered him to sit back down … we’ve seen him do that!”
That’s EXACTLY the game I was thinking of, Diane lol. When Torre almost ran and hid in the locker room lol
Sorry if this was already posted…
Jarrod Washburn’s limited no-trade protection includes the Yankees. He might want compensation to waive that, putting him out of the Yanks’ price range. Washburn, a Boras client, wouldn’t mind pitching in New York though. The Mariners are looking for young pitching for him. It sounds like the Yankees aren’t willing to eat the entire contract and send good prospects.
I thought Torre kind of got a giggle out of it, but maybe that’s because I did …
Eh… I woke up earlier, checked the blog and I thought I had the wrong address and was in the Mets section.
Took a nap.
Woke up again and we’re still talking about Santana? The Mets lost, blame it on Santana, the bullpen, Manual, Billy Joel or whoever… who cares?
“If Moose thought he was still going strong, he would have pointed at Manuel as he came up the dugout steps and ordered him to sit back down … we’ve seen him do that!”
When? I’d have loved to see that.
And yes, Moose can be a pissy li’l b*tch. But I love what he’s doing for the Yankees. And besides, it’s just Moose being Moose.
randy, washburn has only one more year and $15M owed including this year. and he can certainly be dealt in the offseason if they dont want to keep him.
if we can get a passable mlb lefty starter for igawa, we gotta make that happen. he has also pitched out of the bp this year and in the PS.
Russel
Where exactly would you have Vidro play for us? He is a horrible player. The only reason we’d include him in a trade is to drop the cost of our minor league players, then immediately DFA him like so much garbage.
I like the Rotoworld title ”$137.5 Million Can’t Buy a Win”
From George King in the NY Post:
“The Bronx and Tampa factions of the New York Yankees family will meet in Tampa tomorrow to decide if anything can be done to improve the club before next Thursday’s trading deadline.
Club president Randy Levine, GM Brian Cashman and director of professional scouting Billy Eppler will fly south today and meet with general partners Hal and Hank Steinbrenner, senior vice president Felix Lopez, minor league head Mark Newman and a bevy of scouts at George M. Steinbrenner III Field.”
“if we can get a passable mlb lefty starter for igawa, we gotta make that happen. he has also pitched out of the bp this year and in the PS.”
i’ll keep an open mind. a lefty would be nice, but what bothers me is that the yankees don’t spend freely the way they used to so does washburn’s salary become another reason to rush unseasoned rookies next year.
i’m not so sure about other teams being interested in him to trade for him at that salary.
M4rk6,
End of May 2006. Pete blogged about it June 1, ‘06. A poster pointed out at the time that Moose had to get Torre’s attention fast because he had already been to the mound once and if Moose had waited until he got out there to tell him he was good to go it would have been too late because on his second visit Joe would have had to take him out.
Whatever the backstory, it was a funny scene to watch and those of us who got to see it are still smiling when we remember.
Hope that the weather holds out for the game this afternoon. Calling for thunderstorms and periods of rain.
the twins don’t come in again this year so they have to try to get today’s gamme in. might be a long afternoon/evening with a few delays.
Diane –
Absolutely, without a doubt one of the best Moose Moments!
“i’ll keep an open mind. a lefty would be nice, but what bothers me is that the yankees don’t spend freely the way they used to so does washburn’s salary become another reason to rush unseasoned rookies next year.”
I don’t think the Yanks care as much about the yearly salary as much as they do the length of contracts. Washburn only has 1 more year.
He has been a good pitcher as of late and I would love any excuse to unload Igawa.
“i’ll keep an open mind. a lefty would be nice, but what bothers me is that the yankees don’t spend freely the way they used to so does washburn’s salary become another reason to rush unseasoned rookies next year.”
wouldnt it actually be the opposite? having Washburn in the rotation next season would allow some of the young pitchers another year to develop in the system before being called up or needed prematurely, or maybe for 2010.
and if the Yankees push aggressively for Sabathia like most assume they would, you could go Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, and Washburn, which allows Hughes and IPK to prob start at Scranton, work on their secondary stuff, and be ready in the case of first callup.
and thats ignoring the possibility that the Yankees might be willing to extend Moose an offer for a one or two year contract if they need him or want him back for 2009 (of course, depending on how he performs dow nthe stretch).
Doreen,
Forgot to thank you for your response and the trip down memory lane yesterday.
“he could have signed livan hernandez for 5 million and had no problems with rushing rookies and delaying their professional advancement. they would be all tuned up and ready to be added to a pennant push if he would have been patient.”
Really? If you can definitively tell me that Phil Hughes wouldn’t have gotten hurt and Ian Kennedy would have come up in August and pitched well then MAYBE, MAYBE I’ll agree with you.
Livan Hernandez is not a good pitcher. Darrell Rasner has pitched better than Livan Hernandez. Can we just stop with this Livan Hernandez nonsense already?
For me the whole attraction in this trade scenario is getting something—anything—for Igawa. The upgrade from Ponson or Rasner would be negligible but the relief of knowing that I would never have to see Igawa stand up in NYY pinstripes again would be considerable.
“girardi was never a good hitter .i wonder if the combination of a weak hitting manager and a relatively new hitting coach the reason for the yankee drop off in hitting this year. if it is, one solution would be to get one of those three dodger coaches who’s teaching torre’s approach.”
So all of the good Yankee hitters suddenly forgot how to hit and get on base because Torre left? Is that why Jeter and Abreu’s OBP is MUCH lower than their career averages? Abreu was with Philly before he came to NY. In Philly when he didn’t have Torre his OBP was higher than it’s been in NY.
I do think there is something in the notion that Torre/Mattingly/Bowa collectively made a difference to how the team played and that their departure all at one time was a loss that some Yankees have had to adjust to.
And if Girardi/Thompson/Eiland et.al. have a learning curve to conquer before they master their roles is that really a surprise?
Safe to assume Bernie Williams declined an invitation to the Old Timers’ game, or do we think he wasn’t extended one?
Would be a good year to have Bernie Williams day and retire #51….
“Livan Hernandez is not a good pitcher. Darrell Rasner has pitched better than Livan Hernandez. Can we just stop with this Livan Hernandez nonsense already?”
raymagnetic-
http://www.twincities.com/ci_9782199?source=most_viewed
“In their past 18 games, Twins starting pitchers are 12-2 with a 2.82 earned-run average over 118 innings, perhaps the best in the major leagues. General manager Bill Smith credits veteran Livan Hernandez, 33, with having a significant influence on fellow starters Scott Baker, 26; Nick Blackburn, 26; Kevin Slowey, 24; and Glen Perkins, 25.
“We thought getting Livan here would be a big plus because of the experience he brings,” Smith said Thursday. “He’s been through more on and off the field in his life, as a Cuban defector and all that; he’s been through the World Series; and in 10 years he’s never been on the disabled list.”
the twins are 14-7 when he pitches.
you continue since the spring to predict against livan’s and the twins success. you might want to use another statistical paradigm to predict winning baseball. the one you have right now doesn’t seem to predict winning very well.
“So all of the good Yankee hitters suddenly forgot how to hit and get on base because Torre left?”
it’s very possible torre emphasized an approach that resulted in a high on base percentage. .
you think girardi and long know as much about hitting as torre and mattingly?
“you think girardi and long know as much about hitting as torre and mattingly?”
Possibly, but only because they learned it from Torre and Mattingly…..