Not all moves may be trades
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- July
- 24
As teams contemplate trades, Freddy Garcia would cost nothing except money.
The right-hander, who had shoulder surgery last year, will have a showcase on Aug. 5. Virtually every team in contention has some degree of interest in Garcia. The list includes the Cardinals, Phillies, Rangers, Red Sox, Royals, Tigers, Mets, White Sox and Yankees.
Garcia will probably want a contract for 2009 and could get it depending on how he looks.
————
Driving up to Boston this afternoon. I’ll update the blog if anything happens, but the plan is to take a little time off until tomorrow morning.
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on Thursday, July 24th, 2008 at 1:51 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
From the last thread:
Sal (Connecticut): Keith Mo has gone 1+ inning for a save two times for the whole season one on April 23rd and the other one June 22nd. And it’s not just Kyle Farnsworth performing well it’s everyone which includes Jose Veras, David Robertson, Edwar Ramirez, and even Dan Giese. Not to mention Bruney is awaiting to be activated and Cox is there waiting in the wings in Scranton-Wilkes/Barre along with Scott Strickland who has had ML experience and success.
SportsNation Keith law: (1:49 PM ET ) No way I trust Bruney, who has never had even average command, with any leveraged innings. Strickland hasn’t been good in ages. Cox is just back off injury, very reliant on a slider that big-league hitters might just lay off. (That’s sort of a worst case scenario, as I do like Cox.) I don’t see how adding an arm, especially one who gets lefties out, is a bad idea.
Safe driving Pete.
All it would cost is money? If only the Yankees had some
Hey – Rebecca, did you see my question in the previous thread? Can retype right now…
From Jayson Stark:
Interestingly, other clubs that have spoken with the Blue Jays say they’ll talk about anybody. But when the conversation turns to, say, Roy Halladay, the conversation ends fast.
“He likes it here,” Ricciardi says. “He wants to win here. And he’s signed for two more years. So if we trade him, we’d be giving up on the chance that we’re going to be a good club in the next two years. And we don’t feel that way.”
I’m sorry, but I trust what Stark says far more than what that jacka$$ at MLBTradeRumors is babbling about.
I guess he heard someone else:
Jason (NYC): How much do you trust any bullpen (in reference to your question about Farnsworth)? They are all shaky… its not like Fuentes is really different. The point is there is no need to use resources upgrading a bullpen that has been a strong point when the resources could be put to much better use (starting pitching, an outfielder). And I’m surprised at you Keith; you are normally a big proponent of just getting good bullpen pitchers at getting people out instead of worrying so much about lefty matchups.
Keith law: (1:53 PM ET ) If you’re thinking playoffs, you have to at least consider strategic options. And I don’t see the SP options on the market – Washburn? Blech. Burnett? You want him pitching in critical games for you down the stretch? What starters are out there who would merit the Yankees giving up something of value? And if the Yanks were serious about upgrading their outfield, they’d sign Bonds.
Besides, I’m sure that Ricciardi wants to be able to sleep at night without worrying about people throwing random stuff through the windows
Rishi: I tried but I didn’t get through
Guys, get this: right now I’m working on a blog post about Mussina, Mo and Molina, so I’m looking at Mussina’s stats…
All of last year he had 91 Ks.
This year, in July (and he will probably make one more start this month), he has 81 Ks.
His ERA is also right now the lowest it’s been since 2001.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mussimi01.shtml
People, please, can we not be tempted to shift gears into another pointless argument about signing Bonds.
Its not going to happen, so stop talking about it.
lol @ the sponsor’s comments on mussinas b-r page!
Freddy Garcia is worth a look. See what he’s got and if nothing, no big deal.
And with Bruney, unfortunately I see either Giese or Robertson being sent down instead of Hawkins being DFA’ed.
The reason for that being to avoid an issue if Bruney reinjures or is not as effective as he was before the injury. If he is not himself they can simply call up whoever was sent down for him whereas if they DFA Hawkins he will be gone.
Now I’m not suggesting that losing Hawkins would necessarily be a bad thing but I am sure the organization would like to see some return for their 3.75M.
John (Erie): Signing Bonds to upgrade their outfield? Will they allow him to use his cane to play the outfield? I agree he could still be a decent hitter, but on what planet can Bonds still play a position?
Keith law: (2:00 PM ET ) He was only a little below average in LF last year.
via John Heyman
Bonds is a bum. That’s why nobody wants him.
The only thing he’ll upgrade is the media attention.
I think that Hawkins has some worth as the mopup man. If the Yankees are ahead or behind by enough to call it a game, why waste the innings on very effective pitchers? Come the playoffs its a different matter, but by then there will be more options to choose from, no?
JR Yankees,
By now, almost 2/3rds of that 3.75 MM are already gone (you can’t replay the season).
The question is if it’s worth keeping Hawkings in the roster just because he’ll be making about $1.25-1.50 MM for the remainder of the year.
I don’t think it does, but that’s up to everyone to decide.
BTW – Sending Hawkins to Seattle if the Yanks take on Vidro would seem to even things out (I wouldn’t even mind sending 2 B prospects plus Igaway if Hawkins goes back to Seattle).
You might as well let Robertson be the mop up man if the choice is sending Robertson down or DFA’ing Hawkins. Hawkins sure was good as a mop up man yesterday. Might as well continue to get a young pitcher experience against major league hitters.
Look at Edwars #’s they are frankly off the wall…
Yeah he weighs 160 lbs and was cut twice but look at his #’s.. Veras the same.. They are getting major leaguers out. Veras has 1 blown hold all yr.
Look at the chisox championship team; politte, hermanson, a young jenks, etc……
It is about getting guys out.. I will worry about deep in the playoffs if the Yanks get there.
A good righty bat, and a starter if possible… THEY do not need pen help…….
Repost from last thread:
I’m not totally sold on Bruney either. He’s come a long way, but like I told a good friend once: Don’t fall in love with him, he’ll break your heart.
Just remember you are what you are (Jarret Wright, Ron Villone). Bruney’s done this, too, during his Yankee tenure.
I’m okay with him replacing Hawkins in the role as the garbage man because I like the setup of the bullpen now. Most of the guys are pitching really well so you’ve got to keep them in their current roles.
the Yanks owe hawkins about $1.3 mill. if that is even a variable in any decision on him I would be floored….
again his contract is done in 2 months but Washbum has another yr..NO THANKS>>>>
JR: I really, really hope it’s not Geise or Robertson.
What makes you think Garcia even want to be a Yankee? He has said he likes the Red Sox.
Man I hope Hawkins closes in Fenway Park
Bruney is different then Villone Bruney is still young look it up. He also pitched well for the Yanks last yr. and looked real good in his 12 innings this yr. and he has the mindset that he is not scared.. the mindset is huge in a relief pitcher.. look at the rays game, he gave up 2 jacks in a row and did not crumble, that matters…..
Rebecca,
What’s amazing about this Mussina situation is that he’s a borderline HOFer. People always say that he’s never won 20. The way i see it is if he wins 20, he just that much closer. 7 wins in 10 starts. Long odds, but let’s all hope the bats come alive when he pitches.
What I’m saying, like a lot of you are saying, is that Edwar & Robertson are pitching really well. Yes, Farnsy, too. Bases loaded nobody out, who do you call? Used to be Bruney. I’d rather see Robertson, then Edwar, over Brian in that spot now. That’s why I see Brian replacing Hawkins, or whoever gets sent back. I like Brian, but he needs to reprove himself again, that he can not walk guys and keep his emotions in check. This has nothing to do with his foot injury. It’s just from seeing Bruney over the last 2+ years.
I have a feeling if the Yankees were serious about Bonds, they would have signed him already.
“The list includes the Cardinals, Phillies, Rangers, Red Sox, Royals, Tigers, Mets, White Sox and Yankees.”
Royals???
kd: I think one 20 win season gets him in, an I think he knows that, which makes him more determined, which makes him pitch better.
It’s a vicious cycle
Yeah, for sure I would rather see Hawkins be the odd man out. He really does have no value left to us.
I would hope Bruney replaces him in the bullpen but I also hope adding another reliever doesn’t mess with the chemistry and the roles we have going for us right now.
Giese should stick around and take up Hawkins’ role.
here i thought Law was one of the smarter ones…
So Freddie’s showcase comes after the deadline.
If Igawa weren’t in the equation (if he even is), I’d say table it and gamble on Freddie. Or you go with the one of the million other #5s lying around.
I’m telling you, this staff is going to fix Ponson yet.
Someone was looking for a BP nickname for the Yankees – in the spirit of the ‘nasty boys’ (or was it boyz?) of Cincy.
Given our lack of Fuentes, Mahay, or even Meyers – how about –
The Vast Right-handed Conspiracy!
(yes, i know it sux)
Rebecca, i think you’re right. 20 and in. God I hope he doesn’t win 19 this year. He’ll always be knows as the guy who was one strike away from a perfect game
also from last thread:
Doug (NY): Local paper has the Dodgers interested in Cano and offering Kemp + Lowe. Yanks are seeking top of rotation starter (Billingsley, Kershaw) instead. Thoughts?
Keith law: (2:06 PM ET ) There is no way I’d deal Billingsley or Kershaw for Cano. That’s one of those “does this sound like a phone hanging up?” moments.
Did Kershaw get bludgeoned the other day?
also, MLB.com mentioned that the Braves have all but accepted the fact they’ll be sellers this year, and could look to take offers for Jeff Francoeur along with Teixeira and LHP Will Ohman.
Send Hawkins to Flushing. He would fit right in that bullpen.
Looks like Oliver Perez is the real,real deal after all.
“I have a feeling if the Yankees were serious about Bonds, they would have signed him already.”
They should have. It would have been the best way to credibly upgrade the offense this season without hamstringing the future. Especially now that Matsui’s out.
Once Damon can get back into the field, they need to swap Miranda up here for Christian/Gardner. The guy is MASHING righties at AAA. It’d be better if it was the other way around, but at least he could help a lot more than a 5th OFer.
TKinDC:
I’d go with the Great ‘08, except we’ve only got 7 relievers and that’s including Hawkins!
And the Magnificent Seven has already been used…
…hmmm.
I’ll get back to you.
We don’t need a 1B right now, Francoeur would be of interest and Mik Gonzalez (but for some reason they put him in the unavailable list)
mel
“Don’t fall in love with him, he’ll break your heart.”
I considered a tattoo to remind me, but instead had it embroidered it on a pillow so I wouldn’t forget.
The Mets are 3 outs away from 1st place in the NL East.
One out.
pat,
We got to have t-shirts with his face on it:
“Don’t fall in love”
(picture)
“I’ll break your heart…”
The Yankees Bullpen ERA right now is 6th in baseball at 3.39, 3rd in the league to Oakland and Chicago. I would love to see how much it goes down if you take out Ohlendorf and Hawkins.
“and Mik Gonzalez (but for some reason they put him in the unavailable list)”
Think that “some reason” might be cheap and under control for another year or two.
Brandon- Who cares about the Mets? If they lose its amusing, but otherwise it doesn’t really matter.
“Looks like Oliver Perez is the real,real deal after all.”
You forgot a word.
He’s the real, real INCONSISTENT deal after all.
PJH it’s the baseball fan in me. I always pay attention to what’s going on around the races.
An unexpected trade is on the horizon. Possibly announced this weekend.. or Monday, if it doesn’t blow up. HINT: not pitching.
Keith law: (2:28 PM ET ) Unordered: Tampa, Boston, Texas, San Francisco, Oakland. Thought about: Baltimore, St. Louis, Atlanta. Did NOT think about: Houston, White Sox.
Yankees don’t crack his top-5 farm systems. Can’t get too mad cuz we don’t have replacement level position players. I guess Oakland would have the best, huh? I’m a little surprised about SF. Anybody got intel on that?
Hmm.
The 2007 Yankees bullpen: The K-men Cometh
(what? They lead the ML in Ks!)
Is one elite prospect worth Xavier Nady ? (IDK but I still wouldn’t do it.)
Should the Phillies owner come out and say ‘Jamie Moyer should learn how to pitch more like Mike Mussina”?
Moyer’s fastball is like 82!
Rebecca –
K-men reminds me of Kei Igawa [shudders]
An unexpected trade is on the horizon. Possibly announced this weekend.. or Monday, if it doesn’t blow up. HINT: not pitching.
WTF are you talking about ? Spit it out or just shut up !
“Is one elite prospect worth Xavier Nady”
eh, maybe, probably.
brad (nj): how are the yanks not in the top 5 farm system, they have a better system that boston. All boston has is lars, bowden is highly overrated, lowrie is a utility guy. Yanks have A-Jax, Cole, Brackman, Bettances, Melancon, McCutchen, McAllister, cox, Sanchez….
Keith law: (2:38 PM ET ) Boston’s system is better by a mile. Jackson’s a good athlete, but his performances have been meh and he hasn’t blown me away as a future superstar the times I’ve seen him. Cole’s not signed yet. Brackman’s out for the year. Melancon and Cox are relievers just coming off surgery. McCutchen’s a 6th starter type. Sanchez missed almost 24 months with arm trouble and has thrown just 8 innings in the GCL. Be serious.
“Moyer’s fastball is like 82!”
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/jamie_moyer_change_up
“I’m a little surprised about SF. Anybody got intel on that?”
Buster Posey, Angel Villalona and a young lefty Madison Bumgarner are three pretty high level prospects, but they must have some depth beyond that I’m not aware of.
TK: Point.
Please, the bobcat stuff does not need to be repeated. Either you know or you don’t.
“WTF are you talking about ? Spit it out or just shut up !”
Brandon, you should know better, my man. pay no mind to such nonsense.
What’s with Law and the Yankee hate today?
worth a shot all will cost is money.
What’s with Law and the Yankee hate today?
He couldn’t get tickets to the last game of the season
Does anybody know if Ken Singleton is going to take time away from Michael Kay. he has been doing more games since i last remember. i love it if he is…anybody have inside info into that?
again boston prospects are always great and yank prospects always suck…
how is that superstar buchholtz doing??/ Ellsbury can run and field but look at his BA and other stats….He has a way to go..
how is the superstar closer from St. Johns doing????
AJAX, tabata(he is 19) and Melancon are very good prospect the yanks have the giants for high end starters, they have tons of talent in there system.. Montero, romine, are yeas 2 or 3 yrs away but legit catching prospects…
if you think the yankees have a better farm system you are a certified idiot. Law speaks the truth.
What brings the Yankee system down in the rankings are the lack of quality position players at the AAA and AA levels.
That’s not hate on Law’s part. Just reality.
At the AA and AAA levels, only Austin Jackson has shown even the slightest tough of star power. The rest? Just not very good.
It also doesn’t help to see Gardner, a guy the Yankees were counting on for help, having trouble cracking .200 at the big league level.
The last 3 years, and rightly so, the Yankees have concentrated heavily on building up their pitching at the minor league levels.
If Sanchez and Brackman are healthy next year, the Yankees will have some amazing depth in their system on the pitching end.
Position players? All depends on many of the kids (Montero, Suttle, Angelini, etc) in Charleston do at Trenton and/or Tampa next year.
did some research on the bullpen… if you combine the July numbers of Farnesworth, Veras, Ramirez, Robertson and Giese it would look like this…
36 Appearances
38.2 Innings
11 Hits
4 ER
62 K’s
0.85 ERA (estimate)
lights out…
SJ44, Welcome Back!!
keith law sh*ting on the NYY farm system.
ok. strange.
JoeyA
I think Singleton has been on more because he may be covering for the games originally scheduled for Bobby Murcer to do.
I think there is a good chance that something unexpected will happen. I can’t be specific, because then it wouldn’t be unexpected anymore. If it doesn’t happen, that will mean that something else happened to prevent it from happening.
Remember: you only read what they want you to read.
Basically, they control what you read.
SJ: Welcome back, long time no post! Hope you enjoyed the ASB.
Johnny: And that’s without Mo’s numbers?
I’m getting chills. Shades of ‘96 right there.
welcome back SJ!
The biggest problem is not if the Yankees prospects are great which they are as a farm system.The problem is most of them are either injured or rehabbing.
Horne,Melchon,SAnchez,Brackman,Tabata,Hughes and Kennedy are as good as prospects go but all are rehabbing.Can’t say our farm is great when everybody is injuried.
Nick: LMAO!
Feeling queezy now
Nick-
What is this The Matrix. “everything you see is an illusion. Nothing is real. the real is fake and the fake is real” you talk nonsense. either say what you think/know or don’t mention anything. last time i checked, you’re not Buster Olney and do not have inside sources.
SJ you are correct but the sux do not have frontline position players either.. they do not grow on trees…
the Yankee pitching depth is great and they have some top tier position talent but yes it is a few yrs away.
again Jed Lowrie is not the next Derek Jeter.. Brandon Moss is not the next stud OF either..
Nickat
Sj – back to stay I hope? We need some more rational thinking around here sometimes
“I can’t be specific, because then it wouldn’t be unexpected anymore. If it doesn’t happen, that will mean that something else happened to prevent it from happening.
Remember: you only read what they want you to read.
Basically, they control what you read”
BOBCAT. Is that you?
Keith Law has degrees from Harvard and Carnegie Mellon, but to suggest the yankees should sign Barry Bond or that he is an average LF on D means ESPN either doesn’t have a drug testing policy or they allow drinking on the job.
“Hughes and Kennedy”
They aren’t prospects anymore; too much big league service time to count. That’s part of the reason. Joba and Kennedy graduated. Joba’s obviously got the makings of a stud, and is showing it. Kennedy, despite his struggles, is only 23 and has a really good chance to make it as an MLB regular inside of the next two years. Even though he’s unlikely to be a stud, someone on the cusp of MLB starter-hood at that age has a lot of value. But, he’s not technically a prospect anymore. And Horne’s been hurt, so all of a sudden their best upper-level healthy SP prospect is mccutchen.
Law is not dumping on the farm system. He just doesn’t think its a Top 5 system. It isn’t.
It also doesn’t help that 3 of the “jewels” of the system (Hughes, Kennedy and Gardner) have struggled so much at the big league level this year.
Its great to be excited about prospects. I think the Yankees have some very exciting prospects. Particularly in Charleston. However, when your Top 3 guys for this year (Hughes, Kennedy and Gardner) go winless and your best AAA position player can’t hit .200 at the major league level, its hard for folks to get upset when people don’t go crazy praising the farm system.
The failures of Hughes, Kennedy and Gardner to date certainly don’t cast the entire system in a positive light.
Obviously, Joba’s success, and the rise of Melancon, Jackson and Montero, are positives.
Overall though, if you put a gun to the head of the Yankees, they will tell you they erred in the off-season not adding a veteran pitcher to the mix in case Hughes and/or Kennedy faltered.
I don’t think they make the same mistake this off-season.
Its why it wouldn’t shock me to see them not only sign CC but bring back both Moose and Pettitte for 2009.
You can do a lot of creative things when you have over 80 million bucks coming off the books.
If that means Hughes and/or Kennedy start the year in AAA, so be it. IMO, both guys need a full year of AAA before we even have a conversation about whether either guy can help this team in 2009, or the future.
They will be able to find position players in the off-season. Lots of ways to go in that direction.
They are still in the race this year because of their pitching. Ironically, led by the guy most people within the Yankees felt wouldn’t hold up over the course of the season….Moose.
Talking about prospects is nice but, its always fascinating to me how its all about veterans when we get to this time of year.
anyone know what hotel the yanks stay at when in boston?
whozat – GREAT link to the Onion – lol!
Hank needs something to mention – since his fixation on Johan has not turned out to be exactly enlightened.
“to suggest the yankees should sign Barry Bond or that he is an average LF on D”
To suggest taht they should sign him is far, far from delusional or sane. He was incredibly productive last year and would cost the minimum, apparently. To not give him a look makes no baseball sense. The team might judge that the clubhouse issues would outweigh the baseball potential, but since he costs nothing and you could make him play minor league games as he gets ready and cut him before he even plays for you if you think he’s not going to help…for baseball reasons, it makes sense.
Let’s not forget about Melancon.
SJ44: i don’t know. The system is VERY deep. All the way down, to the Gulf Coast League.
and what is the #1 commodity in baseball? Pitching.
Johan has a 3 ERA and is pitching great-where was he not right-The Yankkes would be better off right now if Melky wasn’t patrolling center and Hughes was in Minny injured
“whozat – GREAT link to the Onion – lol!”
They have some pretty hilarious sports articles. There was one about ARod being sent back to the factory to have a mechanical flaw in his swing repaired that I thought was pretty good.
Hank Steinbrenner, the fan’s advocate!
JoeyA, when exactly was is that you checked about whether or not I was Buster Olney? Was there some confusion about that before?
LOL. Don’t know what’s on Spike tv in your time zone. But if you want to see something funny check out Pros vs. Joes.
Al Leiter’s on it.
It’s unreal. Do you think Moose has a legit shot at comeback player of the year?
I think hands down he should get it, but he’s always the type of pitcher that gets overlooked.
What concerns me most about Hughes is that he hasn’t found a way to stay healthy yet. Part of it, no doubt, is that the Yankees rushed him.
The silver lining, if it can be called that, is that now the Yankees will probably be much less likely to rush someone through the system, but that’s not a lesson that should have had to be learned the hard way.
The Yankees do seem to be drafting better, however.
had been looking forward to possible NYY trade talk on Michael Kay.
he just announced today’s show is: JETS day.
There was a hilarious one about Barry Zito a while back…
http://www.theonion.com/content/infograph/barry_zito
I can see Kennedy being a very effective #3/4 starter, but on a National League team. He has the ability to be very good, but got off to a bad, bad start this year…there was a ton of pressure on him once he knew he was in the rotation and expected to stay there, and he couldn’t handle it. Last season he was basically playing with house money and thus performed better.
I would certainly offer him to the Pirates; I could see him fitting in well. Gorzelanny/Duke/Snell/Maholm/Kennedy is a rotation with a modicum of talent.
man Gardner is done already.. the guy has had 60 or less AB’s.. he is a bust.. Man SJ I expected more then you on that one………
Why do people always group kennedy and hughes together, to me no comparison.. 1 is a potential stud and 1 is a serviceable potential starter.. I do not even have to identify who is what….
so 3 guys come up for a cup of coffee and that not only devalues them but the whole system.. sounds logical if you are a moron..again how is that washed up Pelfrey doing???
People were burying him less then 2 months ago and now he is a legit #2 starter, times change fast……..
dont retire 21
YES
“SJ44: i don’t know. The system is VERY deep. All the way down, to the Gulf Coast League.”
True. But when you have one position player in AA/AAA that could help you inside the next two years (minus, maybe, Miranda), that makes it tough to rank the system super high. Especially when a lot of that promising pitching is hurt.
Johan doesn’t help dead offenses (see: Johan getting screwed over by the Mets offense…and bullpen collapses, for that matter), and dead offense was the big reason for the first half.
whozat,
he’s alway been productive, but he’s under federal indictment. it would cause a huge distraction. i also believe he turns 44 today. not sure after this much time missed he could just turn it on.
i agree it never hurts to kick the tires, but i’d avoid that one.
SJ44,
Are we having a sit-down now?
We needed a definitive answer on whether or not hitting coaches matter.
Answer, please?
We have a lot of bullpen depth on the farm and pitching in general. The bats are few and far between except for AJax at AA. Charleston is a long way from the show.
it was in agreement today “to go for it” take it for what it’s worth.
SJ44:
Seems like Cano’s dad did much more coaching regarding his hitting in a few days, then K. Long has done in 3 years.
“so 3 guys come up for a cup of coffee and that not only devalues them but the whole system..”
In a game where prospect evaluation is pretty much all about perception? Yeah, it does devalue them. It doesn’t change their talent level or their realistic projected performance, but it changes what “baseball people” think of them. Especially for a guy with few tools like Gardner. No one’s going to look at him and project him based on what they see; his perceived value was in convincing other teams he was going to be Juan Pierre + walks. Him showing up at the MLB level and failing miserably certainly deflates his perceived value.
Until we get offensive depth in AAA and AA our system we will not be highly ranked organization. Thus we will not be able to trade for an impact bat w/o adversely impacting the farm.
Just in on Yahoo Sports…
Cano and Kennedy for Kemp and Kershaw
i wish
“Do you think Moose has a legit shot at comeback player of the year?”
Milton Bradley’s award to lose, Rebecca. Coming back from a pretty serious knee injury trumps coming back from being lousy, I would think.
Can’t really get too upset about how Law or Callis feels about the farm systems. Nobody really thought Cano and Wang would be as good as they are. They came up at a time when people said the Yankees had nothing in their system.
I believe the Yankees have three AA position players that could play in the big leagues one day and be everyday players. But what do I know, I’m just a fan.
“but he’s under federal indictment. it would cause a huge distraction.”
Again, you’re assuming that this is true. Can you really see the media attention on the Yankees getting any WORSE than it has been with them struggling all season? It’s not like the FBI is going to be wandering through the clubhouse. I’m pretty sure that they’re pretty used to the media circus. And if he helps them win ballgames…somehow I doubt they’re going to care all that much.
How about Cliff Lee or Ervin Santana too? Both spent time in the minors last year.
I might be missing something, but once players move up to the big club, what do they have to do with how our farm system is ranked? If Joba and Hughes were in Scranton, they’d be part of the farm system, but they’re not.
Stuart,
Position prospects don’t have to be superstars to be considered quality prospects.
Lowrie is not Derek Jeter. However, only Carmen Angelini is close to him as a SS prospect in the Yankee system.
Corona, Pena, Sublett? Not even close to as good as Lowrie is as a prospect.
Ellsbury is a good player. Put it another way, who would you rather have on the team right now, Gardner or Ellsbury?
Pedroia? He may be a punk but, he’s EXACTLY the type of player that if he was on the Yankees, we would love. A tough, grinder type of kid.
Unfortunately, when you ignore the farm system, which the Yankees did from 2000-2005, you are basically starting over.
I look at the farm system as having started again in 2005. Since then, you see some amazing movement by the Yankees.
I know for a fact there hasn’t been a single team Cashman has talked to that has told him, “You don’t have enough talent” in the system to do a deal. Its just that its slanted toward pitching and not on position players.
The problem is, the depth isn’t there (nor are the star quality type of players on the trade market) to make the “big deal”. By “big deal”, I mean giving up A List prospects.
IMO, neither Tex nor Holliday are the type of players that warrant giving up those type of prospects.
Tex has had Chipper Jones hitting in front of him most of this season and hasn’t exactly lit it up.
Holliday? His numbers away from Coors scare me and I think he is a helluva player. Just not a good enough player to justify giving up Jackson, Hughes and Melancon to get.
If I was the Yankees, I would try to get Marte and get a bat. Even if it means overpaying for Marte because you can keep him (by picking up his 6 million dollar option) for next year.
I wouldn’t trade for a starter. If Ponson and/or Rasner fail, give Aceves the next look and check out Freddie Garcia on August 5.
If you get Marte, you pretty much set up your pitching staff for 2009.
Wang, CC (I believe they will sign him), Moose, Pettitte and Joba for the rotation. Marte, Robertson, Ramirez, Melancon, Bruney, Veras and Mo in the ‘pen.
That’s a pitching staff, folks. You don’t need to score 900 runs, or have 7-8 10-figure position players, to win with a staff like that.
You would also have the luxury of spinning off an arm or two to find an OF or a first baseman in the off-season.
From Buster’s post this morning:
The Yankees have had conversations about catchers — but have initiated none of them. They’re getting inundated with calls from rival executives offering pricey veteran catchers who they hope the Yankees would like to take, now that Posada’s season as a catcher is over. But the Yankees have no interest, insiders say, and unless Jose Molina gets hurt, they will not be adding another catcher.
• The Yankees are fully cognizant that Jarrod Washburn has a full no-trade clause, but they don’t intend to add any financial enticements to convince him to waive it. “If he wants to come here, great,” said one club official. “If he wants to stay in Seattle, we have other options.”
Lot’s of Barry Bonds talk out there too
Phil Franchise has a LOT to prove. I agree with SJ44 — he would be best served spending a season in AAA in 2009. At least until after the All-Star break. Right now, he and Kennedy have a very dark cloud hanging over them….
Fredo and CUYanks:
Yeah. That fits in with the Moose canon–always good, but always someone better.
IIRC though, Bradley wasn’t hurt till the very end of last year?
But yes, Lee has got to be up there as well.
“Thus we will not be able to trade for an impact bat w/o adversely impacting the farm.”
Bull. If the other team has lots of position players but is light on pitching, the Yanks match up great. They could send some really young, high-upside guys without it hurting too badly. With Mcallister showing up, Cole (probably) signing on and Brackman returning from surgery, Betances is a really projectable young arm they could give up. Heredia or Nova as well.
Re: Bonds, I think his trial date is set for next spring, it’s not like he’d be missing games to huddle up with his attorneys every other day and zipping off for hearings.
Not that they should sign him.
“Coming back from a pretty serious knee injury trumps coming back from being lousy, I would think.”
It would be one thing if he did it playing but he blew out his knee being an ahole.
“We have a lot of bullpen depth on the farm and pitching in general. The bats are few and far between except for AJax at AA. Charleston is a long way from the show.”
Charleston may be a long way away, but the Yankees organization has shown over the past couple of years that if you perform well in the minors you can advance … and quickly … look at how Joba blew thru each level last year.
The Yankees have some intriguing prospects down in Charleston who are turning heads … I think names like Wilkins de la Rosa and Jonathan Ortiz will be talked about this time next year as either prospects that might help us at ML level or as trade chips.
“Wang, CC (I believe they will sign him), Moose, Pettitte and Joba for the rotation.”
Now, I guess officially all of us have given up on you know who.
Rishi, was that “lots of Barry Bonds talk out there” more from Buster or was that your own added comment?
God keep Bonds out of Yankees pinstripe, it didn’t pan out the first time we don’t need to see a repeat.
The Cox talk needs to be put to rest. A short reliever that can’t strike anyone out has very little value on a MLB roster. Pitching to contact with runners on base (as short inning RP do) isn’t always a great option, and his strikeout numbers are amazingly low. If you can’t get minor league hitters to swing and miss occasionally, things don’t look good for you in the big leagues. Strickland or Patterson (when healthy) are better options.
SJ is back!!!! Thank God, some more intelligent reading!
No one really talks about it, but if Moose plays a couple more years he also gets 3000 k’s, which should help in his HOF case.
SJ44,
Welcome back! It’s good to see you. And I agree with you. The Yankee system is lacking prospects in too many key positions to be considered upper echelon. But isn’t this position a little bit contrary to your position during Santanamia? I thought you were a little overprotective of Yankee some prospects. Has your opinion changed on prospects like Tabata,Gardner,Horne & Marquez?
No, you just get chills considering the possibility. Especially with a healthy Hughes in AAA.
CC is doing so well with the Brew Crew right now, though, that I actually think the Brewers might try to keep him.
Still, if you’ve got Wang, Joba, Moose and Andy…well, the one week we did have all of them?
We won seven straight.
“look at how Joba blew thru each level last year.”
You can’t compare the advancment of Joba to a hitter. An arm like Joba can advance a lot quicker than a bat. Let’s see the last hitter that advanced quickly. When we have been drafting we are not getting an advanced hitter.
Haven’t we already filled our quota for team divas at one?
Bonds is cooked – NoCal sympathies, while understandable, should, how may I say this delicately, STFU.
Cashman will be the 1st to admit if asked, that position players are not in quantity like the pitching is at present.
For this very reason it’s expected that some arms will have to be used in transactions to get position players until the farm system balances out with equal development.
This will show itself when the Charlston group reaches AAA status in about 2 years.
“Holliday? His numbers away from Coors scare me and I think he is a helluva player. Just not a good enough player to justify giving up Jackson, Hughes and Melancon to get.”
Do the Rox have a big contract they want to dump that would allow the Yanks to get Holliday for a quantity package? Maybe something around Tabata, Betances and mid-level guys?
“It would be one thing if he did it playing but he blew out his knee being an ahole.”
He’s capable of being an a-hole, but remember it was an out of line umpire who instigated that whole thing. Either way, sucking in 2007 and being good in ‘08 doesn’t seem to merit comeback player of the year, does it??? And if the answer is yes, doesn’t Moose fall in line behind Cliff Lee??? And maybe even Ervin Santana???
Sorry – that was me commenting on the number of “Hank says they’re talking about signing Barry” articles out there…not Buster
I like Cox but he needs more than his slider. AAA hitters have been laying off on it and his ERA is suffering.
I’d be pissed off it Tabata or Jackson weren’t here after the deadline. Pissed off.
“Do the Rox have a big contract they want to dump that would allow the Yanks to get Holliday for a quantity package? Maybe something around Tabata, Betances and mid-level guys?”
Yeah, Todd Helton’s.
“I’d be pissed off it Tabata or Jackson weren’t here after the deadline. Pissed off.”
Yes, Brandon, we know. But there’s no significant move to be made for a position player that won’t almost certainly require one of them. I’d prefer it to be Tabata, given his struggles. It’d be selling low, unfortunately. I wish he was at least healthy. Or had been playing well when he got hurt.
Did Carlos Quentin play a full season last year? He’s had quite a comeback early on in his career too. More of a breakout than a comeback though.
Wow! Fleas says a trade is going to go down before the trade deadline. That’s amazing, he MUST have inside sources. Sorry Fleas, nobody is buying it.
Then he continues his bashing of Kevin Long. Funny stuff.
I see the Yankees trading Tabata before Jackson.
If I am correct, Jackson is their top ranked position prospect. I can’t see them giving Jackson up for anything short of Clayton Kershaw straight up.
“Phil Franchise has a LOT to prove. I agree with SJ44 — he would be best served spending a season in AAA in 2009.”
I disagree with this assessment. If anything they can put him in the bullpen to work out whatever it is he has to work out.
He has excellent command and control of his fastball and curve. He could follow the Joba, Chad Billingsley etc. model next year and see how that works out.
I don’t see how letting him play against AAAA guys helps him out at all. He’s already thrown 275 minor league innings and totally dominated in the minors despite being one of the youngest players at every level. He need to be in the bigs in my opinion.
If Hank or anyone else was really serious about Bonds in any way, you’d think they wouldn’t need to wait until the big Tampa sitdown to make it happen.
I agreee Brandon especially A-Jax. People were dismissing him as a lesser prospect when he was hitting .270 in a tough hitter’s league especially for a young guy. He starts raking and he’s close to .300. More power will come. You need to hang on to him. You move him and your next hitting prospect is at least three to four years away.
“Yeah, Todd Helton’s.”
Wow. That’s a quite a burdensome contract. His power’s GONE this year too. Great eye, though.
Well…what if they took on Helton and Giambi’d him? Play him at mostly at 1B next year, then DH him. Could he stay healthy and productive until 2011 in that scenario?
Stuart,
I didn’t say Gardner was “done”. However, even after 60 AB’s, his projection of being “no better than a 4th OF” is pretty spot on, IMO.
He hits too many balls in the air and takes too many pitches in the middle of the plate. Sorry but, he’s not an elite prospect. He’s ok. Ok is good enough in Oakland, St. Louis and Pittsburgh. Ok isn’t going to cut it in NY.
If he is a bench player for the Yankees, I love him. An everyday player? Don’t see it.
The problem with the Yankee offense this year isn’t Kevin Long.
That’s the easy reach for fans to make that claim because fans always look for one guy to blame for problems.
Long is one of the most respected hitting coaches in the game. However, he doesn’t step in the box.
A team that doesn’t hit? That’s on the players.
Hitting coaches get fired all the time and you see no difference in performances.
While Don Mattingly was hitting coach, this team was DREADFUL hitting with RISP in the post-season. Is that on Donnie? No.
Donnie said it best a couple of months ago. Its very, very tough to work with a team full of name players. Guys tend to do their own thing and don’t respond well to teaching. Especially true with veteran players.
Jason Giambi has been with the Yankees since 2002. This is the first year he has even tried to go back to attempting to use the entire field (what made him a star in Oakland) when hitting. That’s something Donnie and Long have practically BEGGED him to do for years. He wouldn’t do it.
Why this year? Simple. Contract year.
That’s how it is at the major league level. You have to deal with all kinds of stuff when dealing with the players.
Look at the Posada situation. On the surface, its a no brainer that he should get shut down and have the surgery now.
Yet, some people within the organization still want to see if they can “get something out of him” for this year. Its nuts but, that’s the business of baseball.
Overall, Girardi and the staff have done an amazing job keeping this team in the race. No Posada for most of the year. Matsui done for the year. Nothing out of Cano for the first 3 months. No Wang. Nothing out of Hughes and Kennedy. Jeter hurt much of the year. No Arod for 3 weeks. Its amazing to think about the injuries that have hit the team this year.
Yet, they have turned the bullpen into one of the best in the league and are mainstreaming younger players (Veras, Robertson, Ramirez, Joba to the rotation) into the mix.
The entire staff has done a solid job in what is a transition year.
Now, we see if this team can get a little help to get them over the hump in the next 2 months.
Moose is definetly making a good claim for the hall of fame. If he gets to 270 wins, he has a shot. He pitched in the AL his whole career, in the AL East whole career. He never got a Cy Young but a lot of guys using steroids did. He will be an interesting case. He performed great in big spots, Like the 15 k’s vs Clevenald in 97 or the ALDS Game 3 vs Oaklans 2001.
“I disagree with this assessment. If anything they can put him in the bullpen to work out whatever it is he has to work out. ”
I don’t see him continuing the development of his change out of the pen, though, and that’s a key part of his growth as a starter. I though his plus command of his plus FB and curve would be enough to let him perform as a league-average starter while he developed and started to mix in his change and slider, but no dice. I can’t see him getting the development he needs with those pitches out of the bullpen, though.
I figure he and kennedy, if they’re both still here, start next season in AAA. Or, they duke it out for the 5 slot.
Lee is looking tough but he hasn’t had to learn a different pitching style like Moose has had to deal with.
“Like the 15 k’s vs Clevenald in 97 or the ALDS Game 3 vs Oaklans 2001.”
What about game 7 of the 2003 ALCS? First relief appearance of his career in a postseason series against Boston with the season on the line?
SJ, I’d love to hear your take on the bullpen.
I couldn’t believe some of the stats when I looked at them, or the league rankings, considering how bad the ‘pen was for most of last year.
It shouldn’t be expected that much news of deals will come out of Tampa after the meetings today.
As always, Cashman doesn’t tip his hand on deals. The media will fuel rumors but nothing is etched in stone …. yet.
“Lee is looking tough but he hasn’t had to learn a different pitching style like Moose has had to deal with.”
So? Demoted to AAA in 07 to starting the allstar game in 08 is a pretty huge comeback.
SJ has waffled like a politician on Hughes since the beginning. He was down on Hughes all last year until the last month and playoffs. He was high on him in the spring and then jumped off that bandwagon when Phil struggled. Now he says he needs another year in AAA. Make up your mind.
And BTW, Ellsbury has settled in right about where I expected. No way was he going to play like he did the last month and playoffs last year for a whole 162. He’s a nice player, that’s about it.
2008 .259 .327 .356 5 HR 27 RBI 35 SB OPS+80
2007 OPS+ 131
I’d have to think that Gardner would get on base at a better clip than that if he played a month or two straight.
“Wow. That’s a quite a burdensome contract. His power’s GONE this year too. Great eye, though.
Well…what if they took on Helton and Giambi’d him? Play him at mostly at 1B next year, then DH him. Could he stay healthy and productive until 2011 in that scenario?”
I suppose. Helton plays a good 1B and is down with OBP, but the powers long gone and the money is HUGE.
Can’t see the Rocks doing it anyway. I think they see Holliday as a big opportunity to enhance their farm system….though getting out from under $57M owed Helton thru ‘11 would seem tempting.
Watch out for jaywalkers
Ray,
Here’s the problem with Hughes. What he did 2 years ago is irrelevent right now.
This is a lost year for him. He has to pitch. His innings are down and his success of two years ago is not relevent to where he is today. In a way, he’s like Homer Bailey. Early success as a callup, then struggles. The difference (and its a big one) is, Bailey hasn’t been hurt. Hughes has been hurt for 2 years.
Its why he needs time in AAA in 2009, IMO.
If I’m Cashman, there is no way I pencil him into the Opening Day Roster. Even out of the bullpen because the Yankees are loaded with bullpen arms better than Hughes.
Frankly, If I was the Yankees, I’d have him pitch in the Arizona Fall League this year. It can do nothing but help him.
You are going to need 8-9 starters to get through a season anyway. Even if he starts the year in AAA in 2009, if he pitches well, he will end up in the Bronx at some point next season.
If Seattle decides this week that they won’t re-sign Raul Ibanez and get reasonable about moving him, I’d love to see him in left field. Jarrod Washburn is a lateral move IMO and isn’t worth the money he’s owed next year.
“I think they see Holliday as a big opportunity to enhance their farm system….though getting out from under $57M owed Helton thru ‘11 would seem tempting.”
True, Holliday is a big opportunity for them; perhaps the only opportunity to get out from under that contract
But I see your point. You can build a lot of scouting infrastructure and sign a loooot of young talent with 57 mil, though.
“Lee is looking tough but he hasn’t had to learn a different pitching style like Moose has had to deal with.”
I’d guess Lee had to learn a thing or two about pitching as he went from the minors in ‘07 to being the AL starter in the all-star game, wouldn’t you???
Whozat,
I don’t see why Hughes couldn’t learn to throw his changeup in the major league bullpen. He won’t be throwing that many changeups anyway when he’s starting. To me it just doesn’t make sense for him to go back to AAA to work on one pitch against hitters who aren’t really good anyway. Eventually he’s going to have to learn how to throw all of his pitches to ML quality hitters. Might as well throw him into the fire from the beginning and work out his kinks against better hitters.
Remember he was league average last year in limited time in the majors with basically only 2 pitches. He’s also going to get more time in AAA this year when he finally starts pitching again.
“If Seattle decides this week that they won’t re-sign Raul Ibanez and get reasonable about moving him, I’d love to see him in left field.”
I’d accept him as a DH, I suppose. He gives back pretty much all his value as a LFer. I’d rather not give up a lot for him. If we want a lefty DH that sucks in the field, sign Bonds or bring up Miranda.
“Jarrod Washburn is a lateral move IMO and isn’t worth the money he’s owed next year.”
He’s an upgrade from Ponson, almost certainly, and if they take him for Igawa and someone of little consequence the money’s pretty much a wash.
Bonds on the Yanks is a nightmare situation all the good feelings around a team disappear when Bonds is around. This is not Bonds Circa 1995 he cannot play any position and can barely run the bases.
The difficulty that a Moose, Pettitte, CC, Wang, Joba rotation presents is that the penalty for taking one of these established, in some cases great starters out of the rotation is awfully high.
Remember the psychodrama when Moose posted 3 horrendous starts in a row last year? It was bad.
If Sir Sidney or Razz got shelled in their next start – I’d call for their roles immediately.
Torre mastered managing a roster full of all-stars – maybe that is Girardi’s next test.
“Can’t see the Rocks doing it anyway. I think they see Holliday as a big opportunity to enhance their farm system….though getting out from under $57M owed Helton thru ‘11 would seem tempting.”
absolutely, however in Holliday and Helton, you have the 2 best positional players the Rockies have had in the last 5 years, easy. moving them both in the same deal just wouldnt work for them, id assume, even if you were willing to take on Helton’s loot… you really have to work overtime to sell that to the fanbase.
“He won’t be throwing that many changeups anyway when he’s starting. To me it just doesn’t make sense for him to go back to AAA to work on one pitch against hitters who aren’t really good anyway.”
He’s not going to pitching innings in the big league and developing a pitch. He needs to learn command of it and develop confidence in it. He’ll never take that next step without the slider or the change becoming a solid weapon. And that’s not going to happen in side sessions, and he’s not going to throw a developing pitch with any regularity while he’s trying to get outs in games that matter.
“you really have to work overtime to sell that to the fanbase.”
Unless the fanbase has soured on Helton because of his struggles and albatross of a deal. I don’t actually know what the sentiment is in Colorado, though.
“I don’t see how letting him play against AAAA guys helps him out at all. He’s already thrown 275 minor league innings and totally dominated in the minors despite being one of the youngest players at every level. He need to be in the bigs in my opinion.”
I agree that Phil has the stuff to be in the majors but my one concern is him staying healthy. I would think that he should start out the season in a less pressurized environment to get him in a groove. Once he gets going, and it gets warm, then he should be called up. He has to be dominating down there too.
“The difficulty that a Moose, Pettitte, CC, Wang, Joba rotation presents is that the penalty for taking one of these established, in some cases great starters out of the rotation is awfully high.”
Yeeees, but guys always get hurt. And, if Hughes is annihilating AAA or something…well, then you look to trade Moose to an NL contender. Unless all five of those guys are healthy and giving you representative performances, there’s always a way.
Anyone counting on Phil Hughes to be a member of our rotation from day one next season needs to have their head examined.
He may have pitched 275 minor league innings, but he’s never healthy and he got his clock cleaned at the major league level this year.
He needs to work on his secondary pitches and needs to earn his way back up from AAA when he finally gets healthy and is ready to pitch.
Look at his stats this season. No one knows with any certainty when the guy got injured, but the fact remains he was lousy this year and killed this team in the early going.
I hope we start next season with 5 starters in place and Hughes and Kennedy (if they are not dealt first) as the backups in the minors waiting for the call.
“Unless the fanbase has soured on Helton because of his struggles and albatross of a deal. I don’t actually know what the sentiment is in Colorado, though.”
i dont buy the fans in Colorado as the type to want to shove Helton out the door.
and not for nothing, but in that awful, horrendous division, the Rockies are only like 6 GB of the lead. they could just as easily keep these guys and push for a pitcher and make a run themselves.
Bad Scooter, why do you need an answer right now on a guy who hasn’t pitched since May?
That’s not logical.
Do you think talent evaluators in the game make one evaluation on a player and stick to it? Evaluating players constantly changes because performances change.
For example, two years ago, everyone in baseball thought Homer Bailey of the Reds was a “Can’t miss” prospect. Nobody in the game feels that way today.
Hughes has to pitch in order to get a read on him. If he can’t pitch, how can you evaluate him?
Right now, its pretty hard to see how they can have him in the rotation to start 2009 when he isn’t even going to pitch 100 innings (and effective one’s at that) for the Yankees this year.
Rebecca,
The most amazing thing about the bullpen to me is how few media members have stepped up and given Eiland and Girardi praise for its effectiveness.
Nobody thought Girardi could get anything out of Farnsworth. Yet, he has turned him into one of the best 8th inning guys in the AL.
He and Eiland have turned Ramirez and Veras into effective ML pitchers.
Does anybody here really believe Joe Torre would have given David Robertson a shot in high leverage situations?
He has also managed the innings on all the guys, keeping them very fresh.
Even Mo is having his best regular season in years.
Yet, all we hear from many corners of the media is whining about Joba not being in the bullpen.
Bottom line, this is the best the Yankees have pitched in years. Its the #1 reason they are still in the race and this is all without their best pitcher, Wang. Amazing.
It would be nice if some members of the media would acknowledge it and give Girardi and the staff some props.
They deserve it with the work they have done with the pitching staff.
“Unless the fanbase has soured on Helton because of his struggles and albatross of a deal. I don’t actually know what the sentiment is in Colorado, though.”
Helton is still pretty well liked out there.
Rockies can’t get away with moving Holliday in a salary dump. Just won’t sell. And it shouldn’t. I see the Rocks trying to move Holliday over the winter. Sadly, I can see Boston getting heavily involved…..using Ramirez’s money.
“Anyone counting on Phil Hughes to be a member of our rotation from day one next season needs to have their head examined.
He may have pitched 275 minor league innings, but he’s never healthy and he got his clock cleaned at the major league level this year.
He needs to work on his secondary pitches and needs to earn his way back up from AAA when he finally gets healthy and is ready to pitch. ”
I think you have me confused. I did say he dominated while pitching 275IP’s. I DID NOT say that he should start the year in the rotation.
I’m pretty sure I said he should start the year in the bullpen.
Helton may be owed a boatload of guaranteed money but his back is on borrowed time. He may be a fan favorite but the Rockies would be able to deal with without much fan backlash given his contract and back injuries.
whozat –
Remind me to suggest that you approach Moose (who is 10 & 5) with a trade to Kansas City at the deadline next year.
I know he isn’t heavily armed like Farnsy but it wouldn’t be fun
“Remind me to suggest that you approach Moose (who is 10 & 5) with a trade to Kansas City at the deadline next year.”
Hey, I said NL contender!
But I forgot about the 10/5 status. I was figuring he’d not get a no-trade clause as a 40 year old, but I forgot that he’d have one anyway.
SJ and Whozat,
I do respect your opinions about Phil Hughes starting next year in AAA, but I respectfully disagree with your opinions however.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3503613
I believe that Moose and Pettitte will both want to resign barring injury.
It might get down to contracts – I know Pettitte is comfortable year to year but I always wonder whether his elbow will explode. That said $16M is more than Moose’s 11M.
IDK Pettitte’s personal situation and the stress that might come along with a Clemen’s perjury trial – that is imponderable.
I would be delighted to have either one back , but not both.
whozat,
I just think that if the Yanks owe Washburn $10mil next year then that means they will be committed to having him in the ‘09 rotation. I certainly hope that between Hughes, McCutchen, Aceves or even Ian Kennedy the Yanks can do better than Washburn next year as a 4th or 5th starter.
I don’t want to clog up a roster spot just because the guy is owed a lot of money.
SJ44,
Why give Girardi credit for building a good bullpen? They’d rather focus on how he’s such a liar? Which one makes a better story.
And shame on all of you for questioning Girardi’s every bullpen change and move in the first half. It’s not like he can just order one off the LoHud website. He has building the bullpen.
Hughes doesn’t make the bullpen next season. It’d be a waste to have him up here trying to figure out his secondary stuff and take a spot away from someone else.
Right now next years pen is Mo, Veras, Edwar, Robertson, Bruney. We don’t know if they resign Farnsworth. We don’t know if they keep Giese and Rasner for long man. Then you still have guys like Melancon, Cox and Ohlendorf slated for the pen and that’s assuming we don’t go get or sign a lefty for the pen.
Hughes needs to get innings under his belt and needs to prove he can stay healthy. Turning him into a reliever could turn out to be a disaster.
The Monforts are among the most hated people in Colorado. They have amassed a boatload of talent but they will not be paid. I don’t put much stock into the backlash of any potential move. Rockies fans are among the most fair weather fans in sports. They are already taking their Bronco jerseys out of the closet and putting their Rocktober memorabilia up on e-bay.
SJ: Refreshing to hear you say that.
I do have to say, though, I’m not sure if you’ve caught it, but Kay has actually given Girardi a lot of praise for his bullpen usage.
Also, as much as Girardi and Eiland have helped Edwar and Veras, I actually think Rivera’s helped them a lot, too.
They always pan to show Rivera talking to the two…
Girardi and Eiland have shown Edwar and Veras how to pitch; Rivera’s taught them the most important intangible–you have to have confidence in your pitch.
It’s really amazing right now…
Last year, when they took the starter out, it was bite your nails until Rivera in the ninth, and even then, Rivera had one of his worst seasons last year (as if he can have a bad season!)
This year, you can take Joba or Moose out after six and rest easy–Giese, Robertson, Veras, Farnsworth, Ramirez, Rivera–you’ll find one of them that gets the job done.
Amazing.
The Yanks do not need any bullpen help. I wonder if the Pirates would do IPK and Tabata for Bay straight up. Anyone who thinks that Tabata as a 19 year old prospect is better than Jason Bay they need their head checked. He is a righty power bat who plays a decent OF.
Kay has been giving the pen props for a while now. When will Pete give Krazy Kyle his due?
The minute Hank publicly says we will 100 per cent not bring up Bonds and not even talk about him is the minute the union says the owners are colluding against bringing Bonds back.
Please everyone needs to know that and at least hope that we never see Bonds in the Bronx.
The right thing to do is to keep Hughes down in the beginning of ‘09. With his history, and misfortune of being called up too early, he needs time to get back on track.
I say this even though I love Hughes as a pitcher and a player. I know this even though he has proven he belongs in the big leaques.
I would not be opposed to Hughes helping in ‘08, though.
“I just think that if the Yanks owe Washburn $10mil next year then that means they will be committed to having him in the ‘09 rotation.”
I’m sure they’d be pretty locked in to having him start the season in the rotation. Lets say that he’s hideous and they’re faced with DFAing him. They’d be faced with paying a guy about 10 mil to play somewhere else. Right now, they’re facing paying a guy 12 mil to sit on their AAA roster. How is the former any worse than the latter?
Besides…let’s say they trade Igawa and then eat half washburn’s money and trade him this offseason. You got an upgrade over Ponson for the rest of 2008 AND cut 7 mil from your budget over the next three years.
Torre would have destroyed this pen this year and Joba, most likely, would still be in it.
He’d have Joba coming in during the 6th and Mo going for 2 inning saves on a nightly basis.
“Milton Bradley’s award to lose, Rebecca. Coming back from a pretty serious knee injury trumps coming back from being lousy, I would think.”
i don’t know. to me, a guy has to stink to actually make a come-back. i think they should get away from giving the award away to great players, who were never really that bad, and came back from injury.
Cliff Lee never really came back from anything. I could see if he had a season like this one a few years ago, but he didn’t. How is that a “Come Back”? Same can be said for Ervin Santana.
SJ, I agree that you can’t pencil Hughes into the rotation next year, but to say that he needs a whole year down in AAA is stretching it. He was a huge contibutor down the stretch last year and in the playoffs and you were very high on him coming out of spring training because of that.
This after you were down on him all of last August when he wasn’t pitching that good. Then he struggles for a month in 2008 and your off of him and think he might need a full season in AAA.
Depending what the Yanks do at the deadline and how Ponson and Rasner fare, Hughes might be needed by the Yanks come September. He already proved he can pitch in big games at the major league level. He’s throwing now and should have time to get in 5 or 6 starts in the minors before then.
Id love for the yankees to get Bonds
Brett Gardner will not be on the 25-man roster that takes the field vs. the Angels on August 1st.
“Right now, they’re facing paying a guy 12 mil to sit on their AAA roster. How is the former any worse than the latter?”
I think the biggest difference is in the luxury tax impact. Igawa accounts for only $4mil next year as opposed to the full $10 mil for Washburn.
Girardi has managed the pen well. He also has let Andy and Moose go deep in games. Joba being coddled is another story but he has done a good job in not blowing out arms ala Torre. Remember Paul Quantrill, Proctor, and Tom Gordon pitching 100 innings a season that was not good.
TK,
I bring both back for one year. They’re at the age where they’re not pitching for contracts.
They’ve also pitched well enough to open the new stadium.
CC
Wang
Joba
Pettitte
Moose
How sick is that?
Or:
Wang
Joba
Pettitte
Moose
Hughes/Washburn/Who cares, that’s still sick
On second thought, maybe Phil Hughes should go to AAA. Roy Halladay was sent all the way back to A ball and it worked out fine for him so maybe the Yankees precocious pitcher should also go back down to the minors to fine tune his stuff.
“Brett Gardner will not be on the 25-man roster that takes the field vs. the Angels on August 1st.”
Thank goodness. He has been like Scott Podsednik with less talent. I hate guys who have speed and waste it by having a terrible OBP.
“You can’t compare the advancment of Joba to a hitter. An arm like Joba can advance a lot quicker than a bat. Let’s see the last hitter that advanced quickly. When we have been drafting we are not getting an advanced hitter.”
I thought Matt LaPorta was ‘major league ready’ this year? Where is he?
Joba would have thrown 180 innings out of the pen under Torre this year.
I think what they do with Washburn gives us a window as to what they intend to do with Pettitte and/or Moose next year.
If they take on Washburn this year, it means he will be in the rotation next year. That means, one of Moose or Pettitte won’t be back.
Personally, I’d pass on Washburn and use that money to keep Moose and Pettitte in pinstripes next year. I don’t see Washburn as an upgrade. Seems more like a lateral move to me.
The Yankees can offer Ohlendorf, Tabata and McAllister for Nady and Marte. If the Pirates turn it down, move on.
That’s a deal the Yankees could live with, IMO. Its also a good deal for the Pirates since they like Ohlendorf as a starter.
Probably why the Yankees are now starting him in Scranton. As a showcase for trade possibilities.
I agree with Saucy, Santana and Lee are having break out year, not come back years. Mussolini is having a come back year.
Brandon will hate me for this, but I can live with that deal, too.
“I think the biggest difference is in the luxury tax impact. Igawa accounts for only $4mil next year as opposed to the full $10 mil for Washburn.”
There won’t be lux tax in 2010 and 2011? Besides, with the new stadium, they get to write off bunches of money next year or so. I think that’s part of the reason ARod’s deal is structured like it is…big money now, lessening as time goes by.
In the worst case, trading Igawa for Washburn is basically debt restructuring. The Yanks can pay in a lump sum in 09 or over the next three years. I figure that, given the potential to upgrade over Ponson for the rest of this season, AND the financial flexibility caused by getting to write off new stadium expenses, they would like to make the up-front payment.
Also, that ignores the potential of swapping the contracts and then eating some money to trade Washburn in the offseason. Maybe you save 5 mil AND you get the 08 rotation upgrade.
SJ- Nady is a having a career year Bay is a great hitter and has been for several years isn’t he a better bet?
scott podsednik make brett garner look like willie mays
other way around
“I thought Matt LaPorta was ‘major league ready’ this year? Where is he?”
Who said he was? Near MLB, maybe. He’s in AA still, I’m pretty sure. He might be MLB ready inside the next 12 months, though. At least bat-wise.
No SJ! We can’t trade Tabata! He’s the future Manny Ramirez.
Didn’t you get the report?
Also, him and Jackson will be ready to start in our OF next season and they’ll be awesome! I swear!
We’d rather in 2010 than this year!
*this post was laced with sarcasm for the uninformed*
did u hear this deal???
cano for derek lowe and matt kemp
Mcallister I would like to keep but I guess the Yanks cannot keep every pitching prospect in their system. Marte and Nady would at least set us up for this year I’d prefer Bay however.
“isn’t he a better bet?”
he’s also a tougher get. And a pretty terrible defensive player. And that deal was for Nady and Marte. I’m not so sure they need Marte. But…
“Cliff Lee never really came back from anything. I could see if he had a season like this one a few years ago, but he didn’t”
Lee won 46 games from 2004-2006 (w/ an especially strong 18-5 in ‘05) before falling off a…well, a cliff last season.
Mussina is basically having the same year he had in 2006. Shyting the bed in ‘07 and coming back with a 2006-like season in ‘08 doesn’t resonate as Comeback Award winning stuff, does it?
Sj44,
Agree 100%. The wild card is that with Andy we probably wont know if he’s retiring until December. I could also see Mussina trying to cash in one last time and open himself to other teams. He’s not exactly enamored with all the scrutiny New York brings.
I agree with Sj on the Pitts trade.. tabata has a huge upside but I have no clue if that is real or imagined just what I have heard.. And marte and Nady would definitely help the 25 man roster and solidify a strong pen even more… Ndy is still under 30 and pretty versatile and hits from the right side.
Ohlendorf is expendable the Yanks have many good arms so that is no biggie…
If I am Pitt. I take that trade in a minute with Mcutcheon in there minors and then a 19 yr old stud Tabata a few years behind that….I wonder if the Yanks would rue the day they departed with Tabata???
The Pirates will want more for Bay. That’s where you get into Hughes, Melancon and AJ territory on the trade front.
I don’t think the Yankees will trade any A List prospect for anybody at the deadline.
For the right package of players, they may move one or two B+ prospects. But, I would be shocked if they moved one of their A prospects at the deadline.
I could see the Yankees taking out McAllister and adding Kennedy to a Bay-Nady package before I see them adding AJ, Melancon or Hughes to any trade proposal.
I agree with the idea that Girardi and Eiland have helped the pitchers on the staff much more than Torre and Stottlemyre did. Joe G. seems to have a lot of faith in his players, and the veterans have responded really well. Of course Molina’s game calling ability can’t be overlooked either, he’s drawn a lot of praise from the staff. Other than Rasner, who is better with Moeller, almost everyone else has better numbers with Molina catching than Posada.
SJ –
more specifically – I think that if they have Washburn, Pettitte won’t be back. I have a really hard time believing that Moose isn’t going to make a run at 300 as near as he can.
mel –
I truly believe that CC will be ours, but I think we should shed one of the graybeards (pettitte or Moose) to work that our.
The great thing about getting Marte, if we can, is he’s in the pen next season too. Solves the whole “we need a lefty” issue for the next 2 seasons and gives us a lefty with some experience closing. It’s a nice safety net.
I’m not totally sold on Nady, but he would only help.
Sorry, meant to say **Marte-Nady**. not Bay-Nady package.
CW- I heard that deal but Kemp K’s too much and Lowe isn’t that good. Cano will wind up hitting .350 this year count on it, for Cano I’d want Kershaw and Kemp.
“Let’s see the last hitter that advanced quickly.”
Evan Longoria???
how does adding Nady really help us, this year?
Shouldn’t we wait to see what, if anything, we get out of Hughes this year before we plan out his 2009 season?
Right now we have Wang and Joba for sure in 2009. That’s it!
Fredo…..Giambi won the come back player award in 05, his 03 season was very good 41 HR’s 900+ OPS….kind of contradicts what you said.
Moose is a creature of habit. He loves playing for the Yankees.
He will want fair market value, which is only fair. But, he also is well aware of history. One or two more years with the Yankees, if he can put together 20-25 wins, puts him in the Hall of Fame, IMO.
He won’t just go for the bucks. If he decides to play next season, he will balance the money with his best chance to get into the Hall. That would be with the Yankees, IMO.
““I thought Matt LaPorta was ‘major league ready’ this year? Where is he?â€
Who said he was? ”
i remember a while back some trade proposals being throw around where we were putting a package together for this guy. i questioned why put a package together for a ‘prospect’. don’t remember who, but the answer was that he could help us this year.
Nady’s having a good season, but he’s not really good enough to trade good pieces for.
“how does adding Nady really help us, this year?”
Well, it would DRASTICALLY upgrade the defense in RF, for one thing. Bobby has been awful. I was surprised to hear it, but he’s the worst RF defender in the AL, by a longshot.
Also, it’d provide a righty bat. Also, it would allow Damon to DH more.
“Let’s see the last hitter that advanced quickly.â€
Evan Longoria???
And what number was he drafted? I’ll say you the trouble. Number 3 overall. I’m talking the Yankees. Just when do you see us drafting that high? The point is we do not have the chance to pick up advanced hitters in the draft.
I see that Aceves has made 2 starts in Scranton but pitched only a combined 6 innings. Does anyone know if they were rain shortened games or any other reason?
SJ44,
Totally agree, and the Yankees will concede some money because they got a great deal on the last contract. 2/$22?
The difference between Torre and Girardi’s bullpen management is that Girardi and Dave Eiland seldom use a reliever on back to back games.
No doubt they meet with the relief staff before each game and discuss their roles pending what the game situation may require with the idea that pitchers used for the previous game would not be used except in necessary conditions.
Torre had a tendency to go with the hot hand for too long which as we saw, led to burnout.
NickinSF –
You are right about our plight – HOWEVAH (espn style0 with Pettitte dealing and Moose on his way inexorably to 20 wins, it is hard to ignore the current battery.
“Nady’s having a good season, but he’s not really good enough to trade good pieces for.”
I tend to agree, though I think saying he wouldn’t help this season or going forward is a bit unfair as well.
whozat: then what do we do with Bobby, this year?
(the most outlandish post regarding this season I’ve written. Yet.)
“I see that Aceves has made 2 starts in Scranton but pitched only a combined 6 innings. Does anyone know if they were rain shortened games or any other reason?”
Working his way back from a groin thing. It was mild, but he took about two weeks off or maybe a little more. He was on 50 and 65 pitch counts in the two starts.
Any thoughts to prying Aaron Harang away from Reds 30yo 6′7″ 275,strikout pitcher, currently on DL with sore forearm, which doesn’t sound serious.
Nady and Marte would help alot this year and I suppose having Marte for next years pen is a great pick-up. If this deal is available I say do it.
“how does adding Nady really help us, this year?”
It allows you have a major league player in left field instead of Brett Gardner. Further, he’s a right handed bat in a lineup that’s a bit too left handed.
Aceves is on a strict pitch count he last pitched on 65-pitch count in front of Cash. He’s three starts away from being ready.
“whozat: then what do we do with Bobby, this year?”
Depends on Damon. Right now, Nady would take ABs away from Gardner and Christian. If they think Damon can get out in the field again, Bobby starts to sit or DH more.
“Mussina is basically having the same year he had in 2006. Shyting the bed in ‘07 and coming back with a 2006-like season in ‘08 doesn’t resonate as Comeback Award winning stuff, does it?”
umm, yeah. pretty much. doing well, then doing bad, then doing well… pretty much sounds like the definition of come back.
“Any thoughts to prying Aaron Harang away from Reds”
Yes. It’s totally unrealistic.
Fredo Corleone … Longoria moved up like a high first-round pick should. Remind us again, when he drafted that high?
I know it doesn’t seem right to be thinking like this this soon, but if the Yanks get 27 this year, I could see Pettitte retiring, and possibly Mo as well.
No better way to go than out on top.
Aceves pitched 3 innings, 65 pitches , struck out 6 gave up a homer.
Any at bat taken away from Brett Gardner is a good at bat lol
“umm, yeah. pretty much. doing well, then doing bad, then doing well… pretty much sounds like the definition of come back.”
Sorta. But the award is more for guys who come back from something that’s not merely sucking. Like…If Lester had burst back onto the scene the year after getting cancer. THAT would have been a comeback player kind of thing.
What about Doug Davis in the NL? How about coming back from in-season cancer surgery to make 25 successful starts? If he gets his ERA back under 4, I could see that, maybe.
Rebecca,
I know it feels all storybook, but I don’t see Mo ever walking away from all the guaranteed cash in his contract.
Rebecca,
I could see Andy hangigng it up. But I think Mo really wants to be a part of the team that opens the new Stadium.
TKinDC, I don’t mean to suggest in any way that Pettitte and/or Moose wouldn’t be great to have back, just that it’s pure speculation whether they’ll want to and for what price and under what terms.
And CC, maybe, maybe not. He might want too many years or he might want to hit the west coast and be closer to his Vallejo abode.
But if we’re making up dream rotations, yes, it’s nice to pencil in enough names so that Hughes doesn’t have to be included or is penciled in at #5.
And gayle, I would be surprised if Hank mentioned Bonds consideration just to ward off collusion talk. If Hank had said “Bonds? Hell no, that guy can barely walk!” that wouldn’t open up the team to collusion charges, IMO. But it seems very likely that Hank just meant that everything was on the table to discuss. I don’t read much into it.
Nady gives the Yanks a pretty good bat starting sometimes and off the bench and he is a righty.
Imagine Damon in LF, melky in CF and abreu in Rf.. gardner and Nady off the bench. Gardner late inning speed and nady playing some OF and some DH..
Imagine the Yanks with a bench!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gardner has taken awhile to adjust to every level. Obviously, he’s struggling now, but he could settle down at any moment and give us a good OBP going forward. It’d also be good if we could trade him. Either way, he’ll help eventually.
My guess on the surprise trade if one exists is Lance Berkman.
Rebecca- Mo has a thing called a contract and i am fairly confident that he will honor it. Why leave when you are on an improving team with the best player in baseball still on it?
“Fredo Corleone … Longoria moved up like a high first-round pick should. Remind us again, when he drafted that high?”
Don’t know. Probably when Jeter was picked. Just using him as an example of one who moved pretty quick. Ryan Zimmerman, Wright and Braun are others off the top, but they too went pretty early on.
Few people ever mention Randy Winn of the S.F. Giants.
He plays all 3 outfield positions well and bats from both sides of the plate. He’s a consistent .275 – .280 hitter and played several years with the Rays where he started his career.
‘Frisco will not likely ask what Pittsburgh will want for Nady or Colorado will for Holliday.
Winn can be serviceable until A-Jax shows he’s ready.
I’m sure you all saw the story on the SWB blog and Pete’s that Cashman went down to see Aceves and it didn’t go tremendously well.
Small sample size of course.
Jennifer,
would you be willing to share that information? where do the yanks stay while in boston?
what was is that Giambi was coming back from in 2005?
G Love and Drive: I agree with you to a point, but if I remember correctly, Mo has actually said that he’d consider retiring if he won a WS.
(I do want him to return though! I mean, dude, he’s Mo!)
whozat: I think there’s a CPotY for both leagues, no?
Mo will not retire, #27 or not.
Andy, who knows, but I think he’s said publically that he’s intrugued at the idea of opening up the new park.
Since we’re all optimists, we think the Yanks will be better next year than this year. Be a part of it, Andy and Moose!
the probably with WInn is his contract and lack of power……….
“what was is that Giambi was coming back from in 2005?”
Some sort of intestinal issue, I think.
I meant problem on Winn.. OOOPS…
Lance Berkman is the Astros big ticket I cant imagine what they would ask for.
Petttitte has also expressed desire to open the stadium. That’s part of the reason he came back.
“what was is that Giambi was coming back from in 2005?”
A pituitary condition that helped sideline him for most of 04, likely caused by his use of steroids back in the day. So, medical problems…caused by his own choices, yes, but still.
Mussina was planning to retire at the end of this season, according to the John Feinstein book, so if he wins 20 and the Yankees win the world series I could see him retiring, since that dumps two of the HOF arguments against him. But his chances at 300 wins/3000 strikeouts have got to be awfully difficult to walk away from in his current form.
If he does decide to keep playing, I don’t think money will be much of a factor, he’s made $150 million or so already, and he’s aware he’s going to be 40 years old. At this point he’s going to look for the team with the best bullpen and best offense to give him the best chance to collect W’s on the way to 300. Right now, the Yankees are that team.
A tumor in his pituitary gland, according to Wikipedia. Benign, so it wasn’t cancer, but a tumor nonetheless.
Besides the $$ thing, Mo wouldn’t leave us in a lurch. Unless he also thinks Joba belongs in the pen.
The Braves will listen to offers for Jeff Francoeur and Will Ohman, and maybe Mark Teixeira if the Braves struggle in the next week. The Royals are said to be interested in Francoeur.
I wonder what will it cost to get Francoeur.
I think someone here is over-using the phrase “IMO”.
Chris
Randy Winn signed thru 2009 for another 8+M, and currently has been slumping. Average fielder.
Now if they want to throw him into a trade along with Cain, I’m sure Yankees would do that in a Tampa second.
swings and misses,
Was that book being written at a low point in Moose’s career?
Moose has resurrected his career so if asked the same question, he might give a different answer.
“I wonder what will it cost to get Francoeur.”
Why would you want him? He’s exactly the kind of hitter that frustrates us all so very much…swings hard and misses ALL THE TIME. You know all those Betemit ABs that you hate so much?
I am recosnidering the nady marte trade for tabata and others Nady will be 30 in November and is a good 4th OF. that is it, look at his #’s unless he has figured something out…
“Ryan Zimmerman, Wright and Braun are others off the top, but they too went pretty early on.”
Wright went a few picks after we picked Bronson Sardinha. He did shoot through the system as a hs kid put that’s the exception. Our drafts in the past just proves that it’s easier to get pitching depth than developed bats where we pick.
Why would you want him? He’s exactly the kind of hitter that frustrates us all so very much…swings hard and misses ALL THE TIME. You know all those Betemit ABs that you hate so much?
oh i see what you mean. hahas.
“Our drafts in the past just proves that it’s easier to get pitching depth than developed bats where we pick”
Agree 100%
“I am recosnidering the nady marte trade for tabata and others Nady will be 30 in November and is a good 4th OF.”
That’s not fair. Brett Gardner is a 4th OFer. The guy’s been consistently a bit above average on offense, and he’s a good defender. That’s more than a 4th OFer. He’s not an all-star, but he’ll give you better than league-average performance on both sides of the ball. And he can play a little 1B too.
Pitching on the Black was written postseason but Feinstein was obviously working on it allseason. Great section on how Glavine blamed the Mets’ loss on the antics of Reyes, etc.
“Wright went a few picks after we picked Bronson Sardinha.”
Man, that just KILLS me. They were drafting so very, very poorly back then.
Francouer-Great arm Lousy OBP, high strikeout totals. Young 24.
What would it take- a AAA pitcher to replace Glavine/Hampton/Smoltz in the rotation and an outfielder to replace him.
mel,
The Feinstein book was written about the 2007 season, and Moose said he wanted to spend more time with his family before his kids became teenagers and won’t want anything to do with him. I do think he probably didn’t feel 300 was all that realistic coming off the season he had, so he may possibly feel differently now. It IS the Hall of Fame we’re talking about here.
whozat, I think ‘poorly’ is an understatement
Rebecca – nice read re: Team MVP…
“Man, that just KILLS me. They were drafting so very, very poorly back then.”
Shelley in the second-round in ‘02 hasn’t panned out much better.
Why would the Yanks want to rent Tiexiera when he can be had for money in the offseason.
“Great section on how Glavine blamed the Mets’ loss on the antics of Reyes, etc.”
I knew there was a reason Glavine allowed 17 earned runs in 10 innings over his last three starts last season. It was Reyes all along.
Something that made me laugh in the feinstein book that I just read last night. it has taken me a while to get through it with lots of other things going on. But it was about Moyer and Mussina and how Moyer credits Moose as well as Jimmy Key with helping him learn how to pitch so the comments by Hank in hindsight are even funnier then they were when he made them because in fact it is Moyer who says he learned A LOT from Moose.
“I knew there was a reason Glavine allowed 17 earned runs in 10 innings over his last three starts last season. It was Reyes all along.”
Glavine has always tried to deflect criticism.
Rishi: Thanks. I know it’s totally out there…but I still think it should be considered.
That, and, well, I’ve got a thing for guys that play his position
Said this the other day but Francoeur is no better than Melky Cabrera at the moment.
Give me a team full of contact hitters, good fielders, and pitchers throwing many quality starts with a consistent bullpen and that team faces a smooth time of going to and winning a World Series.
” So, medical problems…caused by his own choices, yes, but still.”
you don’t know that .
you should have said possibly caused by his own choices.
people for get about Cano’s 3 for 60 somthing when he came up against the rays.. he also made a lot of errors.
Gardner not hitting right now is nothing unusual, it does not mean he can’t hit at the major league level.
He’ll be fine, I am more concerned about Melky actually.
The way he’s declining maybe Francoeur should try football. I saw him play in hs while visiting a buddy in Atlanta and he can catch the football.
“Gardner not hitting right now is nothing unusual, it does not mean he can’t hit at the major league level.”
Slow bat, no power, too many K’s. He’s not a starting OF. He’s Joey Gathright-lite.
Fleas- Cano always had good form and the body to eventually produce power numbers. Gardner is and always will be a slap hitter who cant get on base. Maybe the pitchers here in the majors are harder to get slap hits and squibbers off of than the guys he faced at AAA. Except for maybe Papel-bottom.
Scott Boras is kidding himself if he thinks he can get sky high money for Teixeira based on what his production has been in what should be a monster contract year to drive his price up.
He deserves no more money than Casey Kotchman.
Rebecca.
Good post.
We should all be grateful for Molina’s contribution so far.
Top four OF long term contracts clubs would love to Unload:
1. Andruw Jones
2. Juan Pierre
3.Gary Matthews
4. Vernon Wells
Any takers?? #1 is a Scott Boras client. Boras is a master at getting top dollar for his clients, and Holliday and Teixera are his clients. Even with millions coming off the books next year, and Posada now possibly a 1st baseman/DH
We are not going for Teixeira, who is hitting .258 against lefties and .277 overall. Ditto for Holliday.
Pedoria was the same as gardner right now but as you can see hes turn into one of the best hitter in baseball so you just have to wait
What’s Vernon Wells contract?
Wells would be ok but we are not getting him from the Jays in an inter-league deal. Matthews got paid after his career year and has rebounded hard. Must be no HGH anymore?
Yankee Trader,
Andruw Jones isn’t on a long term deal. He has 1 year left to be precise. Hard to believe how quickly he fell off however.
Buzz- Pedroia is terribly overrated but I get your point.
Noonan
Wells signed a 7 year contract extension at end of 2006 for 126M.
drive 4-5: “I could also see Mussina trying to cash in one last time and open himself to other teams. He’s not exactly enamored with all the scrutiny New York brings.”
But he’s probably elated with the quality of players he’s surrounded with on the NYY on a regular basis in order to assist in his quest for victories, eh?
Dano: Thank you!
“Pedoria was the same as gardner”
How so? Pedroia always walked more than he struck out. He has also consistently slugged better than Gardner at a younger age in more advanced leagues.
I don’t understand how, with his long-looking swing, Pedroia continues to do well. But to compare him to gardner is ridiculous. Gardner’s swing is all arms and he continues to wait for pitchers to miss the zone…and they don’t.
“Pedoria was the same as gardner right now but as you can see hes turn into one of the best hitter in baseball so you just have to wait”
As a senior at ASU, Pedroia was developing some power, power that will never develop for Gardner. Pedroia pushed aside and forced Ian Kinsler to transfer. Let’s not compare Gradner to Pedroia.
“I could also see Mussina trying to cash in one last time and open himself to other teams. He’s not exactly enamored with all the scrutiny New York brings.â€
I don’t buy that! He may not like the media but he loves playing his cat and mouse game with the media.
Said this the other day but Francoeur is no better than Melky Cabrera at the moment.
His arm and defense over anybody on this current field. And Frenchy has not hit well overall but check his numbers w/ RISP.
IMO I think Mussina would go to another contender, especially if he thinks the Yankees are lowballing him. There will be a lot of good teams interested in him next year.
“Pedroia is terribly overrated but I get your point.”
Even more reason to hate some of past drafts. Pedroia was picked in the second-round in 2004 after we picked Poterson as a comp pick and Brett Smith before him in round 2.
Drive: Moose won’t go far from Williamsport.
So that gives you Pittsburgh, New York, Baltimore, Philadelphia.
He’d probably stay in New York.
“His arm and defense over anybody on this current field. And Frenchy has not hit well overall but check his numbers w/ RISP.”
Brandon,
I’m not going to get into another long drawn out discussion with you over a players merits because I know you are very stubborn once you get a belief about a player in your head.
I will say though that I do not care what Frenchy’s RISP numbers look like when overall he’s not a good hitter.
Would you trade anybody good for Melky Cabrera? Why on earth would you trade anybody good for a player that’s virtually no better than Melky?
If they can get Francoeur for AAAA roster filler then yes I’d do it. I doubt however that the Braves would trade him for that.
Talks for Washburn still hot…
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/07/yankees_talks_on_seattle_lefty.html
Like many of you I’m sure, I just received this e -mail from the Yanks:
“We have reached another important milestone in our move
from Yankee Stadium to the new Yankee Stadium across the
street. Your Relocation Program Guide for the New Yankee
Stadium (the ‘Guide’) is in the process of being printed
and you can expect to receive your Guide in the near future.
The Guide will outline the seat relocation program, explain
the criteria to be used to assign seat locations, detail
ticket prices and ticket license options, and serve as
your introduction to the new Yankee Stadium.”
NOW the question is… how much more is this gonna cost us?
Frenchy would not fit at all offensively. He’s got the plate discipline of Robby without the ability to put as many bad balls in play. He just swings and misses. He’s a lot closer to Melky than Cano.
ray you know who else is a bad overall hitter yet pounds the ball w/ RISP …uh yeh that guy’s name is Ryan Howard
so Frenchy’s 21 HR, 229 RBI, .302/.358/.486 w/ RISP
.847 OPS vs LHP doesn’t interest you ? OK
“Even more reason to hate some of past drafts. Pedroia was picked in the second-round in 2004 after we picked Poterson as a comp pick and Brett Smith before him in round 2″
TL:
If it makes you feel better, take heart in the fact that the Red Sox selected Kris Johnson, a lefthander from Wichita State with the 40th pick (sandwich round pick for Damon)of the 2006 draft.
The man who went #41??? Joba Chamberlain.
Rebecca,
I can see Moose moving to the Phillies or even the Mets. He’s actually a decent hitter too.
For his career, Frenchy strikes out close to four times to every time he walks. That is not the kind of approach I want in our offense. Our goal, I thought was to work the opposing starter and get to the bullpen. Francoeur goes against that approach. The lack of discipline isn’t working in Hotlanta but it would be ok here?
I hate it when sports writers make up stories just for the sake of reporting something. In a story on MLB.com, they are claiming that the Yankees might try to get Pudge Rodriquez from the Tigers. First of all, no AL team is going to make a trade with the Yankees that may help them. Secondly, don’t we have enough former steroid users on the team already? Geez!
Just think Moose and American Idle will both be FAs this offeason. lol
latest on washburn:
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/07/yankees_talks_on_seattle_lefty.html
“ray you know who else is a bad overall hitter yet pounds the ball w/ RISP …uh yeh that guy’s name is Ryan Howard ”
Comparing Ryan Howard and Jeff Francoeur?
Ryan Howard: .236/.323/.505, 29 HR, 88 RBI
Jeff Francoeur: .231/.286/.369, 9 HR, 44 RBI
Hmmm…. I don’t see the resemblance.
Also, Frenchy is hitting .191 with RISP this season.
Well here’s my list of could gets
Utility options
Jeff Keppinger
Mark Lorreta
Catcher options
Miguel Olivo
Gerald Laird
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (I actually learned to spell his name)
OF options
Hank Blalock
Milton Bradley
(You think I give a damn if he’s nuts .908 OPS since 2005)
Raul Ibanez
Jose Guillen
Jeff Francoeur
LH relief
Wesley Wright
Jeremy Affledlt (eh I got it wrong)
Bill Bray
Mike Gonzalez
I’ll be back later.
It would be nice if the Yankees gave Joba some runs to work with for a chance.
The NL pitchers are catching up to Frenchy. Why throw strikes? He will swing at just about anything.
Patrick he’s a career .302/.358/.486 hitter w/ RISP. It doesn’t look like he will be a 100 % bum.
Brandon: From that list, I like Keppinge, Loretta, Olivo and Bradley.
Holliday is likely off the market – Rox are only 6 games out. The price in prospects would be huge since they’d be telling their fans they quit on this season.
Some position players wouldn’t require the inclusion of Jackson or Tabata. Pitt’s need isn’t for OF – they only need trade 1 of their names and will still have 3 quality OF’s. Nady has delivered comparable or better offensive numbers than Bay each of the last 2 seasons, and is the same age. But much cheaper to acquire, plays RF and 1B, and salary is less than 1/2 this season. Seems a better fit for next year, when he’ll be in his last arb year. Admittedly since he’s having a career year, his price is up. On RF defense, though, he’s no upgrade. His arm is nowhere near Abreu’s.
Whether the Yanks wait and see on Posada or Matsui at DH will impact how much PT he gets which this year (and maybe instead of Damon if DH is available) will be for Gardner in LF, and he could well replace Sexson as R 1B, bat against lefties. All depends on the price.
Can’t see Houston moving Berkman – he’s “The Big Puma” after all. Almost the face of the franchise – and they just traded for Wolf (???) so are they packing it in?
Fredo, notice that all the fast moving hitters are 3B’s and OF’s where power is desired and D is less prioritized. There isn’t a power hitting OF in our system, and we don’t need a 3B last I checked. 1B would also qualify, so perhaps Montero moves that way, or Suttle develops exceptionally, or Laird is way better than a 33rd rounder. Power bats is the massive deficit of our system.
Brandon: From that list, I like Keppinger, Loretta, Olivo and Bradley.
That’s my dream list
“Patrick he’s a career .302/.358/.486 hitter w/ RISP. It doesn’t look like he will be a 100 % bum.”
So when we were discussing Jason Bay you said he’s a bum with RISP because he hasn’t done well this year. I pointed out that over his career he does well with RISP yet you completely disregarded that point. Now its the other way around? A little consistency would be nice!
Brandon
Won’t gets: For one reason or another!
Keppinger
Salty
Laird
Ibanez
Guillen
Francouer
Wright
Bray
Gonzalez
Gone to eat. Bye
I’d like it to be Salty and Bradley and Keppinger and Wesley Wright then bring on the AL East !
Oh and off your list Brandon I’d like Mike Gonzalez, Milton Bradley, Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Jeff Keppinger.
Patrick because Jason Bay would cost multiple prospects which we can’t deal. It’s not like he’s a bum, he just isn’t that good to mortgage the whole future.
Joey gathright never had a good OBP.. Gardner had a 400 OBP in AAA.
2 different animals…… Gardner needs time, I have no clue how he winds up but he has significantly more plate discipline the juan pierre and the gathrights of the worls.
I live in LA look at Andruw Jones #’s many of us bloggers can do better then him.. He is hitting .065 with RISP……. He is so bad it is mind boggling, lucky the dodgers only owe him $18 mill next yr….
The Pirates are dillusional. Their asking prices for any guys they say are on the market is sky high. There’s a reason why the Pirates will never win. They have good fans but a horrid front office. Their system has good talent but are backlogged because of the refusal to move their FA veterans.
Question for you experts: my cousin just invited me to see the SI Yankees v. Brooklym Cyclones…who would I know on the SI Yankees (based on all your wonderful commentary)…
Oh and off your list Brandon I’d like Mike Gonzalez, Milton Bradley, Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Jeff Keppinger.
The first 3 on that list would be beautiful. Oh well I’ll be back later peoples got to go.
Why do we need/want Jeff Keppenger?
wesly wright of Houston enough.. he is not exactly the 2nd coming, same for keppinger.. these guys are a dime a dozen, are you real with the infatuation???
“Oh and off your list Brandon I’d like Mike Gonzalez, Milton Bradley, Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Jeff Keppinger.”
Gonzalez and Salty aren’t available….even though Brandon thinks they are.
Rishi: Pat Venditte, the Switch Pitcher
Oh cool – I knew there was someone there I wanted to see! Now I need to get out of this meeting next Friday so I can go. Also have the “grown up” Yankee game on that Sunday
How about Nelson Cruz of the Rangers? He’s absolutely RAKING in AAA…
.342, 34 HR, 84 RBI, 1.164 OPS, 21 for 28 in SB
not alot of strikeouts either
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=3348
lol@ Chris
I thought Brandon went to lunch.
“Gonzalez and Salty aren’t available….even though Brandon thinks they are.”
I know they aren’t but that doesn’t stop me from wanting them on the Yankees
“Besides, with the new stadium, they get to write off bunches of money next year or so. I think that’s part of the reason ARod’s deal is structured like it is…big money now, lessening as time goes by.”
Just for the record. The mortgage on the new stadium will reduce the Yankees income, which will result in them paying less “revenue sharing”. It has NO impact on what they pay in “luxury tax”, which is determined solely by team payroll. These are two seperate taxes.
“Why do we need/want Jeff Keppenger?”
I don’t really want him on the team but he is a useful bench player. He’s a good contact hitter, doesn’t strike out much and can play multiple infield positions. I don’t expect the Yankees to trade for him but I’d be happy to have him on the team.
I don’t really want him on the team but he is a useful bench player. He’s a good contact hitter, doesn’t strike out much and can play multiple infield positions. I don’t expect the Yankees to trade for him but I’d be happy to have him on the team.
if only the Yanks are smart enough to realize Keppinger is better than Betemit.
Why are a few of the same people that couldn’t waite to see Brett in the show, dump on the guy after only 60 ABs? I think all of us knew about his slow starts every time he moved up. He may never be a star, but he could be a very serviceable player.
Bad Scooter and Stuart had it right…give him a little time to prove himself. Although, with us in the hunt for Oct., I am not sure they will give it to him…this year.
Welcome back SJ, good trip? 27/08??
again who the hell is Jeff keppinger.. You guys fall in love with the SCRAPPY player bull-hit.
Jeff Keppinger who the hell cares… He is nothing why do you waste time and energy on guys like that?????
“Why do we need/want Jeff Keppenger?â€
Simply said, he’s got Betemit beat by many miles.
Whozat – the costs associated with the new Satdium have no impact on luxury tax payments. Solely based on salary vs. the threshold. You’re thinking of the impact on revenue sharing payments.
Actually your argument should be turned on its head. With rising tax thresholds and possible declining payroll over the next few years, the Yanks are narrowing the gap there, in fact could get under the threshold in 2010 if some prospects filled the coming holes.
For example, put Jackson in CF, and 2 of Melky, Gardner, Tabata, Curtis, or Carson (I’m really starting to like this guy as a back up OF) in another spot plus reserve. Add 1 high priced guy. Contrast to current OF of Melky (he’ll be making quite a bit more in 2 years if he’s still worthy of a spot), with Damon, Matsui, and Abreu ($42 mil for those 3). Possible big cut. Will our 1B be making Giambi’s $23 mil? IF will be up, especially Cano, but will Jeter (or, okay I said it, another SS) get over $20 MM in 2011? Jorge is frozen (assuming he’s still at C), no back up C should cost more than Molina. Could save another mil if somebody in the system can replace Betemit. And development of some prospects should mean a big cut in pitching cost. Mo is frozen, but done in 2010. The threshold will be $170 mil in ‘10, $178 in ‘11, compared to $155 this year. So it’s at least possible Igawa’s $4 mil could fit tax free in the 2010, easily could in 2011. And we’ve got 3 years to move him or – I know, I must be kidding – he could actually be earning at least some of the money as a 4/5 starter or long reliever. Washburn’s money is virtually guaranteed to fully count in ‘09 (tax threshold is $162 MM), and does in ‘08. And money today is worth more than money in 2 or 3 years. So the lux tax consideration weighs heavily against it.
As stated in the past, I too think the Washburn deal, especially if it includes Vidro, is a bad idea. Guy turns 34 in 3 weeks. I don’t see him as an upgrade worth the money. I think he might appear less risky in 2008, but the risk of Ponson in ‘09 can be 0. I’d stick with prospects, hope the 2 now get us through, hope Wang, Hughes, and / or Kennedy can replace one or both by some time in August or September, or find another choice that doesn’t include a 2009 committment, particularly a $10+ mil one.
Hell, I might prefer Odalis Perez or better yet Tim Redding to Washburn (both cheap, Redding less so, and yes I remember 2005), and I do prefer Maddux, though I doubt that deal can be done. Geez, maybe even the innings and everything else eater Livan – there you go Randy. Hmmm, no.
Sorry, Stuart, but Joey Gathright had OBP’s well over .400 in AAA in both 2005 and 2006, .457 in the latter.