There’s a little hope in the Hub
-
- July
- 24
Boston Globe columnist Kevin Cullen writes that it’s time to retire the “Yankees Suck” chant in Boston.
Kevin went to UMass-Amherst and worked at The Daily Collegian, which makes him at least the second greatest journalist of his generation. But he has about as much chance of convincing people of that as he would advocating stopping beer sales in the fifth inning instead of the seventh.
Still, it’s nice to see somebody stand up for civility.
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on Thursday, July 24th, 2008 at 11:57 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Nooooo! ‘Yankees Suck’ is part of the baseball Americana and can never be done away with!
Unlike Yankee fans booing the Red Sox at the All Star game. Which was a DISGRACE!! A DISGRACE I SAY!!
Was Kevin drinking when he wrote that?
It’s bad enough we had to stop the 19-18 chants…:-P
Peter,
Thank you for the link to Kevin Cullen’s article in the Boston Globe.
I have to agree with the sentiment expressed in that article. The “Yankees Suck” chant is tired and really does not exhibit a whole lot of creativity or intelligence.
Yankees Suck!
http://blog.nj.com/yankees/
I thought the other day it was what, 17%?
He should try asking for world peace.
Fans only say that their rival su(ks because they fear them. Just as when I chant red sox su(k. I know they don’t actually suck, I fear them. I just do not like them. And fear, my friends in my eyes, signifies ability. People hate arod, pitchers fear him because of his ability
My friend scored me some tickets to the Saturday game but he mandated that we go decked out in Yankee gear
I therefore will be packing heat to deal with all those uneducated crybabies at Fenway
Name One New York Yankees fan,that cares what a Red Sux’s fan call them,”NOT FOR NOTHIN,” do we care,EVAH!!!!
Dont know it im late on this. Rumors are Cano for Lowe and Kemp. Thoughts?
i can see it now
:drunk red sox inbreed conversation in the 3rd inning:
“hey guys lets chant something to rally the fans”
“how about yankees suck?”
“no! didnt you read the column by Kevin Cullen? we arent doing that anymore.”
“how about go team go?”
Sos No.
SoS -
Check the previous thread - many against, one for.
I don’t follow the Dodgers very closely. However, I was listening to Fox Sports radio the other day and the two radio personalities were from the Los Angeles area.
They said they really didn’t want Kemp to be traded because in their opinion he will be one of the top players in the near future.
RE CANO…
I hope to god this isn’t true.
I know that loving Cano is like being in an abusive relationship…
“I love you”
“You’re hurting me”
“I love you you”
“You swung at the first pitch after the guy threw 8 consecutive balls inning ending double play etc…”
But what really would hurt is loosing his utterly under-rated athleticism.
Athleticism…
1. The kids swing is one of most gorgeous in all of baseball and when he’s “right” ala “Post All star Break” he can hit literally any ball thrown at him. Up down in out in the zone out of the zone etc…
Anyone else notice that in the last 8 or so games it seems he’s swinging at balls that look like they’d be unhittable and stupid to even try to hit yet he’s driving them to all fields?? Bad ball hitter? I don’t know what that is but Robby when in his current “zone” can hit any pitch and any pitcher. He’s by far the most dangerous hitter on the team right now.
2. Critics give him $hit about being lazy or “non chalant” in the field, but I’d argue this guys talent in the field is so excellent that he often looks like he exerting little to no effort because his athleticism actually permits him such a luxury. Those balls to first while charging full speed in the direction of third base are all made in a seemless motion. Maybe I’m blind to other great 2nd basemen but I just think Cano gets a very bad rap about his play in the field.
I will weep if we trade Cano…
Not literally but seriously I’d be very deeply disappointed.
Rumors are Cano for Lowe and Kemp. Thoughts?
Thumbs down
ray -
I hope that you will accept my ernest wishes for a speedy recovery on Manny’s sore knee.
Do you think he will conquer his human frailty and manage to play this upcoming series?
TK
That is why Manny often stands there and admires his homeruns. If he started running immediately he would “hurt” his knees!! Just kidding!
The biggest gripe people have with Cano is his batting in the first half. Once he gets that straightened out he is going to be untouchable.
Kemp is not going to be as good a player as Cano. A great hitting 2nd baseman is not easy to replace. Kemp is replaceable far easier than Cano would be.
I just don’t see the Yankees making this trade. Besides, SJ44 said it was old news.
I havnt seen Kemp play. Sad im 40 miles from l.a. and dont pay any attention to them. But iv heard he has as lethal bat as Cano and he is a year younger. It would be basically switching possitions and maybe grabbing Orlando Hudson next year or Roberts. You then dont resign Abreu.
Brandon,
To continue from last thread, on the road Chase Utley has an .845 OPS for his career. That’s higher than Robbie’s home OPS. So I don’t think the bandbox in Philly is what makes Utley a great 2B.
Kemp is a fantastic player, but for both teams it would fill one hole and create another one. It’s easier to get a corner outfielder with power than a 2B as good offensively and defensively as Cano.
Robi was in a coma in the 1st half Ray..if he were awake all year Utley wouldn’t be in the same sentence.
1. I would be extremely upset if we trade Cano, as he is my favorite player.
2. Who would replace Cano? Betemit?
3. I hate to say this but it kind of seems like a trade that we would make.. we get a pitcher and a young out fielder =( .. I hope im not right… but this trade would make a lot of sense for us…
Maybe the Yankees should import Cano’s dad to do his batting practice with him in the beginning of the season.
Seriously, I think Cano was pressing way too much in the beginning of the season. With the colder weather he wasn’t swinging as well, and because of that he started pressing, making matters worse. If he can learn to get out of his own way earlier, his numbers would be pretty impressive.
“Robi was in a coma in the 1st half Ray..if he were awake all year Utley wouldn’t be in the same sentence.”
Brandon,
I understand Robbie is a Yankee and you like him but don’t be ridiculous. Right now Robinson Cano isn’t a better player than Utley.
The only thing it does is makes Melky the 4th outfielder because Kemp would take his place. Then there would be a huge hole in the infield and I would bet more runs would score against the Yankees.
The OF wouldn’t be upgraded that much (Kemp’s offense is what makes him attractive, not his defense) but the infield would be downgraded. With Wang, Mussina, Pettitte getting ground balls so often, this would be a bad move.
he’s hitting over .500 since all star break, when the kid is awake he’s a multi hit machine, don’t put Utley in his class until the season is over. One thing I know if Robi has a good 1st half we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
raymagnetic-
i would say right now he is… right now.. maybe not overall but at this moment in time… and for the 2nd half of the season in general… he is better then most if not all 2nd baseman.. at least offensively..
“Ruhikuz July 24th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Yankees Suck!”
Didn’t see that one coming.
“he’s hitting over .500 since all star break, when the kid is awake he’s a multi hit machine, don’t put Utley in his class until the season is over.”
Can’t put Ellsbury in that class either
If you’re gonna trade cano, it has to be to start the season, not after the all-star break!
i ask again… who would replace cano for the season?
“Dont know it im late on this. Rumors are Cano for Lowe and Kemp. Thoughts?”
It’s not a rumor. It’s speculation. There is a difference. I wish people could tell the difference.
I don’t mind the chant but I do get angry seeing the t-shirts with the chant in 5″ letters.
“he’s hitting over .500 since all star break, when the kid is awake he’s a multi hit machine, don’t put Utley in his class until the season is over. One thing I know if Robi has a good 1st half we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.”
Brandon,
Look at Utley’s career numbers compared to Cano’s. They aren’t even close. I know Robbie is good but comparing him to Utley is beyond silly. Maybe in 3/4 years we’ll be saying that Cano is the best 2B (Howie Kendrick might have something to say about that). Right now though there’s no contest. I don’t care what Robbie has done since the all star break.
JOSE VIDRO!!
“raymagnetic-
i would say right now he is… right now.. maybe not overall but at this moment in time… and for the 2nd half of the season in general… he is better then most if not all 2nd baseman.. at least offensively”
Right now at this moment Cano has an OPS+ of 85. Utley has an OPS+ of 140. You guys are being really silly right now.
cuyanks-
im hoping that that was a joke… I would rather have Gonzalez convert to 2b and bat .150 then have vidro… sit on the bench even.
I just don’t get when teams have middle infielders DH’ing. Makes no sense.
If the Yankees sign Paul LoDuca I will kick myself in the nuts. That guy is a loser.
“he’s hitting over .500 since all star break, when the kid is awake he’s a multi hit machine, don’t put Utley in his class until the season is over. One thing I know if Robi has a good 1st half we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.”
Playing the if game is weak.
“If only Melky continued his pace of 35+ Home runs!!!”
How does Cano compare with the hobbit in Boston?
Don’t look now, but the Yankees’ Pythag > Rays’
Vidro is DHing because his knees are totally shot. They were shot when the Nats traded him to the Mariners. (or he left as a FA)
Does anyone have any stats on how valuable a catcher throwing out runners is? Like Molina throwing out 50% hitting .222 = an catcher throwing out an average amount hitting what??
In other words, how much better would a fill-in catcher need to hit to be more valuable than molina?
Unless the Dodgers are sending Kershaw here, we don’t trade Cano after the All Star Break.
The only value he’s going to have for this team is what he does right now after the abysmal start to his season again.
Unless the Yankees feel he’s getting lucky right now and he’s going to hit another slump the rest of this season (since it doesn’t appear he’s changed his approach), I don’t trade him if you want to make the playoffs.
In May though, I would have traded him. His value to the team offensively is only 1/2 a season and that has a lot to do with why the team struggled early on.
I don’t know enough about Kemp to judge him, but I’ve always advocated trading Cano for an ace type pitcher which I feel is more valuable than a 2b who only shows up for half the season offensively. I have no complaints about Cano’s defense though.
Let’s not forget though it was only weeks ago and Cano was one of the worst everyday regualr players in baseball offensively.
Playing the if game is weak.
“If only Melky continued his pace of 35+ Home runs!!!”
What do you mean playing the if game is weak you saw it w/ your own eyes he was getting robbed in the OF, hitting LD at fielders and miss timing his swing, what do you mean if. I’m not putting Melky in this same arguement, it’s funny he plays GG 2B defense in the AL don’t believe it check his RFg and and FPCT, when Cano is hot you can take Utley out of this discussion, but if we’re going by HR and RBI totals fine then Utley has that over him.
I’d also like to know since the 2nd half has started Cano’s OPS vs Utley’s.
Paul LoDuca.That would suck.We got enough HGH guys on this team another one who is a @$$hole on top of that would kill this team.
He’s name shouldn’t have been mention.
If you trade Cano you might as well go ahead and trade Melky as well…those two are close like brothers. Melky’s shown himself to be a bit mentally fragile, so losing Cano, I would say, would reduce his usefulness to nearly nil.
See if you can trade Cano and Cabrera together. Kemp and Ethier?
I love reading this BS about Jays trading Roy Halladay.
What a crock of $hit. Its this kind of stuff that gets these rumors out of hand.
Didn’t he say but a week or two ago how much he loves Toronto and hopes to stick around for a long time?
Second base is so much harder to fill even via star free agent signing than OF.
There are only 4 names I would deal Cano for in the ML
Josh Hamilton
Fransisco Liriano
Clayton Kershaw
Albert Pujols
That’s it.
There aren’t too many guys the Yanks would Trade Cano for and Lowe definitely isn’t one of them. I just read that the Jays are discussing Hallady as he’s not happy with the Jays losing ways. Now that’s a guy they would probably trade Cano for.
global warming: your view of trades, indicates the climate is having an effect on intellect. Either that, or you’re a dodger fan.
Ryan Howard would be on my list
Utley is far and away better offensively than Cano. They are comparable on defense. Overall Utley is the better player but Cano is probably top 5 in either league if you look at offense and defense together.
S.o.S.27
July 24th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
“How does Cano compare with the hobbit in Boston?”
In the last 31 games Pedroia has a .444 batting average, 5 home runs, 18 rbi, .472 on base percentage, and .667 slugging percentage. Plus he has a 23 game hitting streak in away games.
Bronx Jeers,
I think the Halladay report is hogwash.
He said but two weeks ago how much he loves Toronto. They were just as crappy two weeks ago as they are today. So what gives?
I too would trade Cano for Halladay but you know that the Jays aren’t going to give him to the Yankees. Actually, come to think of it, we got the Rocket from them…
ray: is manny playing, this wknd?
Someone told me this joke about Mussina:
An animal shelter refused to let Mike Mussina adopt a dog.
Why?
Because Mussina wouldn’t walk it.
Mussina has an outside shot at more wins than walks… 13 wins and 16 bb
ray,
A lot of folks on here don’t dig Pedroia. I, for one, grew up in the next town over and watched him play ball for quite a few years. He’s a good guy and while I hate the Red Sox, he’s one of the few I can tolerate.
Doc Holiday, for Cano? I don’t know, cuz there is a age difference.
If you would have asked me, 2-3 weeks ago: SOLD.
Going back to something Pete posted a few entries back about Jarrod likely wanting something to wave his no trade. Wouldn’t leaving a team that has a chance to finish 50 games out of first for a team that has a chance to make the playoffs be enough?
Cano not going anywhere. I can only think of 3 2nd who’s performance I’d rather in NY (Kinsler, Pedrioa, Utley). Not worth the discussion.
To trade him creates another hole. They have the minor league pitching depth to add a player w/out subtracting from major league roster.
“There are only 4 names I would deal Cano for in the ML”
What about… Roy Halladay, Edinson Volquez, Tim Lincecum, Ryan Braun, Chase Utley, Felix Hernandez, David Wright, Grady Sizemore, Justin Verlander? There are several more players I consider superior to Cano in addition to the ones I’ve already named.
vinny-b
Ortiz is expected back this weekend and Manny is listed as “day to day” status. I will be surprised if Manny doesn’t play this weekend.
I like when they say Yankees suck. It reminds me that no matter how many championships they win the people of Boston will always feel inferior to the people of New York.
Oh and I really dislike all the “……. Suck” chants. They’re just totally unimaginative. And I sort of wish the Creatures would have included all the players at the ASG. Boston players should gotten token boos but really the game itself should transcend the hostilities. We should be better than them.
There are plenty of players who would be worth dealing Cano for, but none of them would be available. In my opinion, especially due to his position, Matt Kemp is not one of them.
I realize I’m probably more of a “realistic” Red Sox fan (fire away, people) ;)… but whenever I’ve heard the chant at Fenway, the thought in my head has always been…”um…it’s 26-7 for championships, people.” (well…was 5, then 6, now 7) Alas, many Sox fans aren’t “realistic”.
Of course, I feel that anyone who starts The Wave at Fenway should be hung in Boston Common… so don’t go by me.
What about… Roy Halladay, Edinson Volquez, Tim Lincecum, Ryan Braun, Chase Utley, Felix Hernandez, David Wright, Grady Sizemore, Justin Verlander? There are several more players I consider superior to Cano in addition to the ones I’ve already named.
My list stands. No I wouldn’t do it for anyone on this list, David Wright ? com’on man…You know what it is at times I think people actually under rate Cano… He’s hitting what .522/.522/.870 since the break…but hey I guess he’s overrated to some here sad.
What is with the wave at Yankee Stadium? I happen to think it is all the people who want to say they were at Yankee Stadium the last year.
One thing most are forgetting is that the 96 Yankees won the WS with weak hitting/great catcher Girardi, Charlie Hayes at 3b, and stop/plugs at 2b and LF. What they had was good starting pitching, great closer, decent bullpen and good chemistry.
Right now, they seem to have good chemistry going, and Molina may not be great a hitting, but is a very good catcher that is stopping the running game and working very well with the pitchers. Is it a coincidence tha since he has been catching consistently behind the plate the pitching has been phenomenal?
Yankees DO NOT NEED A CATCHER.
Yankees DO NOT NEED A LEFTY IN BULLPEN.
YANKEES DO NOT NEED WASHBURN (No upgrade over Ponson/Rasner, plus they will get Wang back in September, plus Hughes, Kennedy, Acevedo maybe even Pavano.
In the outfield, Damon will be back in LF soon, where are they going to put another outfielder?
Do not like the options out there are not that good (Bay, Nady) decent hitters, but poor defensively.
I say keep the team the way it is. Why fix something that is working so well?
Let us not forget the fact that defense saves runs, which is just as good as producing runs.
And finally, chemistry is a very hard thing to achieve in a team, and right now the Yanks have it.
Robi Cano since June .323/.454/.704
Sometimes I just don’t know.
Anyway I expect Olivo to be a Yankee by the end of tonight if the Salty rumors aren’t true.
Mad Prince,
I know its garbage but it was written up on MLBtraderumors.com so I’d figure I’d throw it out there. Halladay is my favorite. I’ve seen him a bunch of times at the Stadium so much that I stopped going when it was his turn but I’ve since learned just to enjoy his brilliance.
“He’s hitting what .522/.522/.870 since the break…but hey I guess he’s overrated to some here sad.”
Yeah a whole six games totally negates his 85 OPS+ on the year.
what do you guys have against the wave?
its a classic.
if for some strange reason, the ‘Yankees Suck’ chant totally disappears now, do we see Kevin Cullen on a ballot this November?
gotta figure there’d be more useful problems he could solve
Wait correction
*.323 AVG, .344 OBP, % .477 SLG %
(my bad)
I heard that Halladay wants out and Toronto wants to increase its appeal to the growing Japanese population in Canada.
Please.
Bronx Jeers,
I’d be all over Halladay if he was on the table. That would nullify our need to go for Sabathia in the offseason, thus allowign us to focus on other needs.
But it just doesn’t seem realistic. I doubt there is any substance.
Yeah a whole six games totally negates his 85 OPS+ on the year.
Listen I’m not happy about his overall performance but when he turns it on he shuts up his critics. This is a kid that’s willing to do whatever it takes. It’s a love and hate thing w/ Robi..you roll w/ it and hope he expands his game more.
I thought the Dodgers had Kemp on the untouchable list. I know they want offense but, that would be one step forward two steps back for both teams.
I’m a Cano fan, but there are other second basemen that could be added to make me feel better about losing him if it were to happen. Short list: Hudson, Roberts, Kinsler. Since it was a short list and not a keebler elf list Pedroia doesn’t make it.
What is with the showing respect for Sox players by the way? There are some that don’t bother me: Lowell, Lugo, Ellsbury, Casey. Coco wouldn’t except that his batting stance drives me nuts. How can someone be a major league ball player and stand in there like that. Pedroia is annoying however. Skills aside he is not classy enough to wear pinstripes, though they would give the illusion of height.
Lets call it like we see it Yankee fans, AROD is going to get DESTROYED verbally this weekend,,,,,and deservedly so…Madonna masks and music everywhere
ET2012,
Great point. I looked at the team defense leaders yesterday and couldnt believe that we were 2nd behind Cleveland. Defense and pitching is whats going to get us back to the Series.
Brandon,
Im a fan of Cano and all. But the second half surges that he has doesnt make me forget his continueous first half struggles. Utley is much more consistant throughout the year. Im also keeping an eye on Kinsler.
Bill James just called. He says he doesn’t know about stopping “Yankees suck” or “Boston sucks” chants, but he definitely thinks people who indiscriminately throw around OPS+ and WHIP stats may just possibly suck just a tiny wee bit.
Now if the Dodgers want to send us Kershaw for Cano, then Id be listening. If youre gonna trade Cano, make him a center piece for a deal that brings in a real starting pitcher.
I trade Cano for Hallyday in a second. Send Melky with him so he won’t be lonely.
Hallyday, Joba, Pettitte, Mussina
World Series.
We could play Mike Gallego at his present age at 2b and win with that rotation.
Molina is an amazing defensive catcher, and if the Yankees start hitting like they did last July-September, they can live with his at-least-it’s-above-the-Mendoza-line average.
That said, Molina has never caught every day and they need another catcher to help share some of the workload.
Moeller works wonders with Rasner, but like Molina, he’s not much of a threat offensively.
That said, if the Yankees do anything to Molina, other than keep him, I’ll probably cry.
If it was up to me, we’d carry all three Molina brothers
dan,
At least A-Rod is cool enough to chill with Madonna.
You know Youkilis’s ugly grill would love to latch on to that.
Wow, I can’t believe someone actually referred to Pedroia as a Keebler Elf. That is pretty darned funny.
Brandon you have to look at the big picture. Cano has been hotter than anyone for the past 6 games but if you look over this entire season and seasons past then the guys I listed are all more valuable than Cano.
Yes David Wright is better than Cano. He has had .857 OPS, .912 OPS, .912 OPS, .963 OPS, .901 OPS in order from 2004 to 2008.
Cano has done .778 OPS, .890 OPS, .841 OPS, .692 OPS from 2005-2008.
I’d trade Phil Hughes and a right nut for Doc Halladay. I do think all logic and reason leaves my brain when discussing him in pinstripes. Please forgive me, development gods.
Cano for Derek Lowe and Matt Kemp? That’s absolutely ridiculous. We wouldn’t seriously consider that, would we?
G. Love,
Be that as it may, don’t get your hopes up.
Its fun to dream though, eh?
I don’t think there is a second baseman who has as much natural ability as Cano. Once he puts it together he makes it look easy, really easy. He is the Manny of second basemen, But with better hair. I don’t know if its work ethic that makes him take longer to get locked in (as some seem to suggest). I think is attitude is fine though. He is just confident that he can hit and so you don’t see him stressing much. I wish he would be more selective, but remember he is pretty young and that may be something that he develops as he matures a bit.
I think Riccardi should go ahead and trade Halladay - it isn’t like he’s keeping his job after this year anyway.
‘Dead GM Walking’
Doc Holiday, for Cano? I don’t know, cuz there is a age difference.
I hope you’re aware that the discussions would start with Cano and end with a few more names thrown in. Cano for Halladay straight-up would never fly.
This the same David Wright that early this season was in one of the biggest slumps in his career, couldn’t hit w/ RISP, couldn’t field a groundball to 1B if his life depended on it. I don’t think we’ve seen it all from Cano, man is this kid beat down by his own fans or what.
Brandon,
That would be because Cano is the epitome of inconsistent. he just signed a new contract and didn’t do jack $hit for the first 3 mos. of the season. I like consistent bats vs. seasonal ones.
I was actually thinking last night about how many Yanks and Sawx fans are obsessed with their dislike of the other team.
It’s funny but I don’t feel that strongly about the Rays. Maybe all Sawx and Yanks fans should channel their dislike towards the Rays instead. Look at it this way, it’s something we could all agree upon.
Currently I kind of look at the Rays as one would a precocious child. You really can’t hate them because they haven’t won over the course of a full season or PS.
But I can certainly work up an intense dislike for them if they beat the Yanks out for the PS this year.
JS -
Cano and your right nut? LOL
Does it hit for power?
(for the love of God, DON’T ANSWER)
Ok you guys would I wouldn’t, that’s all end of this discussion. This is the trade deadline and I’d want to hear more about our catching options than this.
Brandon,
I was one of the only people here in May and June saying that Cano should be untouchable. I’ve stuck with Cano throughout all his struggles and he’s one of my favorite Yankees. HOWEVER, there is no way you convince me that Cano is a better player than Wright. Perhaps Cano is a better defender at a more premium defensive position but Wright is BY FAR a better hitter and its not even close.
Here are some more columns Kevin Cullen has written:
-We really need to get over this idea that Barry Bonds did steriods stuff.
-What really was so great about Ted Williams?
-Boston fans: Leave ARod alone!
-Time to ease up with this whole OJ is a cold blooded killer thing.
-Derek Jeter: An Appreciation
-John Sterling: Best Announcer Ever!
It’s my birthright to be envious of everything New York and my father taught me that. His father taught him. It all started with Peter Stuyvesant.
It’s not fair that Boston is always in the shadow of New York. It’s not fair that the sidewalks of Boston are rolled up when the sun goes down.
Listen I’m not happy about his overall performance but when he turns it on he shuts up his critics. This is a kid that’s willing to do whatever it takes. It’s a love and hate thing w/ Robi..you roll w/ it and hope he expands his game more.
Listen, I like Robinson Cano as much as the next guy, but you still don’t realize that a sudden post-All-Star-Game resurgence doesn’t make up for 95 games of terrible hitting. I bet Cano will learn how to deal with his first-half woes, but at this time, you CANNOT say that he’s better than Utley. Utley has put up better numbers than him. Neither have seen extensive DL time, so what else are you to go on besides the stats?
Jeez Brandon,
How is Cano “beat down” by his fans when we’re discussing trading him for arguably only the top players in baseball.
Will you do us all a favor and admit that prior to this very recent hot streak he was statistically one of the worst everyday regular players in major league baseball offensively?
Because he was.
And he might well be again next season until July rolls around.
We’re not talking about trading him for Washburn. We’re talking Roy fricking Hallyday who if you don’t see is more valuable than Cano, it’s not worth talking about.
Cano is 25 and Holliday is 29. Holliday has 1 yr. left on his deal and then is going to make a ton. Cano is under contract for at least 4 more years.
That would never happen because the Yanks would not do it but I think the ROckies would.. I dislike Cano’s inconsisistency also but he is a PLAYER.. Cano is a great fielder also…He cannot run but can hit and field a ton.
Why do people under value the Yankee players so much…Holliday’s splits way from home also is a concern….The $$$$$$ issues affect all trades gang…..
cano’s not going anywhere
vin (boston): Keith, Moose look great yesterday and could have 15-16 wins already if the yanks scored for him. does he get his forst 20 win season?
SportsNation Keith law: (1:36 PM ET ) I’d say yes, which would make him the oldest player to have his first 20-win season.
For toronto to trade Doc would be like the yankees trading jeter. Right now, he’s the face of the franchise. He’s not going anywhere until last year of contract.
Cano is not better then David Wright.. David Wright is a great player, and is young and financially manageable..
Cano is a better buy then Holliday..
Roy Halliday is the best pitcher in baseball……
stuart,
we’re talking about HALLADAY, not Holliday.
stuart -
to be fair - the ‘rumor’ asserts that the deal would have to be with a team ‘far away from the AL East’
I just figure it is a good thing b/c he kicks our butt - (and BS and TB)
“AROD is going to get DESTROYED verbally this weekend”
Like he was ever greeted warmly at Fenway? Madonna masks were already done by the Toronto fans, Boston fans wouldn’t be that lame to be so unoriginal.
If they could get Roy Halliday for Robinson Cano, I would drive Robinson to the airport, let melky come to kiss him goodbye, and take Halliday right to Yankee Stadium
Roy Halliday Peoples,,,,,ROY HALLIDAY!!!
Alas not happening, but its ROY FREAKING HALLIDAY
Buckner,
I agree.
For $13,
Cano does not ‘learn’. The word ‘learn’ does not belong in any sentence pertaining to his history or abilities. He starts off every season as if he had never played in the majors before, and it takes him until the AS break to catch on to the basics. After that he’s a big leaguer. Every year I think NYY FO will develop a brain and sell or trade while he looks valuable, so we can start off the following season with at least a replacement level second baseman. Every year they fall for the notion that ‘now he’s got it’.
Why do people under value the Yankee players so much
We’re talking about trading Cano for a Cy-Young winner. How is that undervalue? Perhaps you’re overvaluing?
Honestly, I think you guys might be overvaluing Halladay a little. There is no doubt he is a great pitcher and is having a great year, but he is 31 years old and has missed some starts last few years from injuries. Also, he doesn’t strike out a ton of batters other than this year. Last 2 years his innings/strikeouts were 225.1/139 and 220/132, respectively.
For all the complaining about the decline of Santana after 1 year in a mets uniform, he is only 29 (two years younger) and has been better than Halladay throughout his career.
The Yankees wouldn’t center a deal around Cano for Santana in the offseason, so there is no way they would do it for Halladay now. Even straight up I’d say.
CUYanks,
Great point.
It probably comes back to that Santana fact in any trade discussion. We also passed on Sabathia too.
Again Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball and they are not trading him.. The jays have 4 great arms; halladay, burneet, mcgowan, and marum.. 2 are real young, one is there marquee player and the other is a enigma..
the jays cannot score and offensively need a lot of things. they will ahve a new GM next yr. and there is ZERO chance they will trade Doc……….
Maybe all Sawx and Yanks fans should channel their dislike towards the Rays instead. Look at it this way, it’s something we could all agree upon.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
RJ - Dallas: I think it was Steve Phillips on yesterdays chat that said the Yankees need bullpen help. As if a sub 2 ERA over the last month and a half means they need help
SportsNation Keith law: (1:41 PM ET ) Playing devil’s advocate - how much do you trust Kyle Farnsworth? Who’s your guy to get a tough lefty out? And in general, everyone needs more bullpen depth, especially if you want to avoid asking your closer to throw more than one inning per outing.
i wouldn’t do Cano for Matt Holliday, but I’d do Cano for Roy Halladay.
btw, folks, according to my math, last season cancels out the three-month slump for him.
you all would have traded Jeter the year he was hitting under .200 in June, or whatever that ridiculous start was.
Hallady has been better then Santana.. Santana nevers finishes a game and hlladay does. Halladays endurance and finishing games is a HUGE benefit to a team. Also Santana has lost MPH and Halladay has not
I LOVE Cano over David Wright.
Wright gets a ‘halo effect’ because he is the only met that will stand up and talk to the press after a met loss. So the press has annointed him the Jeter of Queens. LAUGHABLE!
He is not even an adequate defensive player so he will end up being a middle of the road 1B once DelGado leaves.
I think he is a good guy - but he is not even close to as valuable as Cano.
ROY HALLIDAY? Now, that is a pitcher that would be worth giving up Hughes and Kennedy for. Although he is not a strikeout pitcher, he is very good and a consistent, durable pitcher and is not terribly expensive. I don’t if the rumors are true. If they are, this is one trade that needs to be made. That would make the Yankees WS contenders for years to come.
Halladay
Wang
Pettite
Chamberlain
Moose/Brackman/H. Sanchez
ALAS its alot of talk for a day the Yanks are off, but Roy H would start Game 1 of Any PO series and give the Yanks the Horse thats needed at that time of year
I would take a .250 Alberto Gonzalez in a heartbeat if it meant RH in a Yankee uniform
Pitching people,,,,,Yankees have lost in OCT because they dont have the stud pitcher
stuart,
I think Halladay is a stud, but the best pitcher in baseball?
Not so sure about that.
And since you mentioned their starting depth, that actually inclines me to think they might entertain offers and look ahead to 2009 and 2010.
CUYanks-
Roy Halladay is the face of pitching stability. he is an innings machine and has more CG’s than most TEAMS. Roy Halladay for Cano would be a no brainer. this discussion isn’t even worth having. i think i would trade any position player short of Jeter and A-Rod for Halladay. he is, quite simply, a gamer. he would have to be, pitching the way he is for an organization that arguably does the exact same thing every year. they make moves and it all results in the same thing. Imagine if Roy Halladay was in the thick of a pennant race in late August/September. CG shutouts against the Red Sox @ Fenway–thats what dreams are made of my friend.
I think he is a good guy - but he is not even close to as valuable as Cano…
TK IN DC bro, put the pom poms down
Enough armchair GM talk, I want a Yankee game today. I’m having withdrawals!
This was interesting:
Ian - Pearl River: Can you explain the run differential stat and why it’s been so controversial. Joe Morgan claims it’s ovverated.
Keith law: (1:08 PM ET ) The idea is that a team’s runs scored and runs allowed totals are a better reflection of how they’ve played than their actual W and L record. You can use RS and RA to calculate what’s called a Pythagorean record easiest way is RS^2/(RS^2+RA^2)] which gives a better impression of the team’s underlying performance. Even people who understand the idea of an “ugly” win often don’t get or like this concept, but Pyth records have greater predictive value going forward than W/L records, and I think once you’re past the halfway point in a season, you’ve got enough of a sample that those Pyth records start to become meaningful.
Rebecca - can you help KLaw understand that the issue is most think the bullpen is not the glaring weakness (like Philips is making it sound like)…if you are thinking a trade, focus on starting not relief pitching…
He’s not hearing me
i dont remember for certain, but i know someone in here was in agreement with me on Francoeur to play RF for the future in the Bronx… and now, according to mlb.com, the Braves might listen to offers:
“The Braves will listen to offers for Jeff Francoeur and Will Ohman, and maybe Mark Teixeira if the Braves struggle in the next week. The Royals are said to be interested in Francoeur.”
Stuart -
The best pitcher in baseball has been traded before numerous times.
Hell, even Toronto traded Clemens when he was arguably in that spot - along with Randy Johnson, and others.
Think Herschel Walker to the Vikings!
Sal (Connecticut): Keith Mo has gone 1+ inning for a save two times for the whole season one on April 23rd and the other one June 22nd. And it’s not just Kyle Farnsworth performing well it’s everyone which includes Jose Veras, David Robertson, Edwar Ramirez, and even Dan Giese. Not to mention Bruney is awaiting to be activated and Cox is there waiting in the wings in Scranton-Wilkes/Barre along with Scott Strickland who has had ML experience and success.
SportsNation Keith law: (1:49 PM ET ) No way I trust Bruney, who has never had even average command, with any leveraged innings. Strickland hasn’t been good in ages. Cox is just back off injury, very reliant on a slider that big-league hitters might just lay off. (That’s sort of a worst case scenario, as I do like Cox.) I don’t see how adding an arm, especially one who gets lefties out, is a bad idea.
“I think he is a good guy - but he is not even close to as valuable as Cano.”
Take off your pinstriped glasses and look at the stats. Wright is clearly a better hitter and more valuable player than Cano.
Looks like Ortiz is returning on Friday. I truly hope/think Joba is going to embarras him. Wrist injuries are harder to come back from than people think, especially for a pull power hitter like ortiz
ROY HALLIDAY? Now, that is a pitcher that would be worth giving up Hughes and Kennedy for. Although he is not a strikeout pitcher, he is very good and a consistent, durable pitcher and is not terribly expensive. I don’t if the rumors are true. If they are, this is one trade that needs to be made. That would make the Yankees WS contenders for years to come.
Trading Cano for Halliday? Is this a rumor? If this is a posibility, I think it has to be done. Absolutely! Second basemen do not have to be a great hitter, just average. They just have to be good defensively and be able to turn the DP.
Yanks have won WS with no names remember? But they had very good pitching and bullpen.
All the Halladay talk is pipe dreaming but he is the guy worth what the Yanks are reluctant to give up.
CUYanks- True he missed some time but that was cause he took a comebacker off the shin and fractured his leg. A lot of guys have a couple of hot years and fade away a bit but Halladay’s a true ace and a throwback to a distant time when pitchers pitched a complete game. Before it was status quo, now its a stat in itself.
“Hallady has been better then Santana.. Santana nevers finishes a game and hlladay does. Halladays endurance and finishing games is a HUGE benefit to a team.”
Everyone cites Halladay’s Endurance. He does complete more games. But let’s look at inning pitched between Halladay and Santana Last few years:
Halladay/Santana
2008: 152.1/138.2
2007: 225.1/219.0
2006: 220.0/233.2
2005: 141.2/231.2
2004: 133.0/228.0
Not to mention a 1103 to 601 strikeout advantage for Santana during that time, and a 3.20 to 3.57 career ERA advantage for Santana too.
I’m not totally sold on Bruney either. He’s come a long way, but like I told a good friend once: Don’t fall in love with him, he’ll break your heart.
Just remember you are what you are (Jarret Wright, Ron Villone). Bruney’s done this, too, during his Yankee tenure.
I’m okay with him replacing Hawkins in the role as the garbage man because I like the setup of the bullpen now. Most of the guys are pitching really well so you’ve got to keep them in their current roles.
I thought this article might be a fun read until it immediately veered into the “Jeter knows how to play the game / A-Rod doesn’t” theme we’ve seen a million times before.
Patrick and dan -
Sorry that you guys are victims of media spin - At least you make in-depth statistical arguments factoring in defense, position rating, and relative value.
Oh wait - you didn’t - and here I am typing in my pom poms with the pinstriped glasses on.
Try to actually analyze rather than name-call and we can have a discussion
ET2012: no. No merit to Doc Halliday. Only passing time.
What name call? I am a Yankee fan for 30 years, if you think Cano is better than David Wright wow…..just wow
Doug (NY): Local paper has the Dodgers interested in Cano and offering Kemp + Lowe. Yanks are seeking top of rotation starter (Billingsley, Kershaw) instead. Thoughts?
Keith law: (2:06 PM ET ) There is no way I’d deal Billingsley or Kershaw for Cano. That’s one of those “does this sound like a phone hanging up?” moments.
dan -
ok - so nothing? okay.
I am a fan too - so we can agree on that.
“Try to actually analyze rather than name-call and we can have a discussion”
Scroll up and read my post comparing Cano and Wright.
Try to read my posts before accusing me of being a “victim of media spin”.
I’ll give a recap right here. First lets look at Cano.
So far his career:
2005 - .297/.320/.458, 14 HR, 62 RBI, 106 OPS+
2006 - .342/.365/.525, 15 HR, 78 RBI, 126 OPS+
2007 - .306/.353/.488, 19 HR, 97 RBI, 120 OPS+
2008 - .265/.301/.391, 8 HR, 45 RBI, 85 OPS+
And now David Wright’s 5 seasons:
2004 - .293/.332/.525, 14 HR, 40 RBI, 118 OPS+
2005 - .306/.388/.523, 27 HR, 102 RBI, 139 OPS+
2006 - .311/.381/.531, 26 HR, 116 RBI, 133 OPS+
2007 - .325/.416/.546, 30 HR, 107 RBI, 150 OPS+
2008 - .288/.388/.513, 19 HR, 77 RBI, 139 OPS+
Clearly David Wright is a superior offensive player. I didn’t even mention SB’s yet (Wright has 90 in his career, Cano has 11)
The only area Cano has Wright beat is on defense. Cano is a better defender at a more important position. However, Wright is not too terrible at third. His offense far outweighs any advantage Robbie has on defense. David Wright is CLEARLY the superior player.
Cano IS much better looking though…..duh
As a Yankee fan, I adore the pure hatred we get from Boston and the rest of the world. It’s respect, whether they realize it or not.
I’ve got a ton of love for Robbie, and this is not a knock on him whatsoever, but David Wright’s a better player.
In 2009, I’d rather have Roy Halladay than Johan Santana on my team.
Yes, it is just for kicks, and I don’t see him getting traded at all, and especially not to us. At least we’re not discussing relievers we don’t need and overperforming outfielders we’d get fleeced on.
Patrick -
You are conveniently ignoring the relative performance of each player given his position.
You could post Barry Bond’s numbers (or Derek Lee’s or Ryan Howard’s) and they would get the edge.
You stack up your guy against his corner infielder peers (and let’s face it he is going to be a 1B soon) and he is not outstanding.
Robbie Cano is outstanding at his position.
It isn’t that Robbie is a better defensive player alone. It is that he is a superior defensive and offensive player at a predominantly defensive position.
Finally - w/ Robbie being a 2nd half player and Wright choking down the stretch last year - I think we should throw out 2008 numbers to be fair.
what are the chances Girardi could give us a better chance to win than Moeller?
In all honesty, however this whole Cano Wright thing was brought up, just drop it. it’s pretty dumb and completely unnecessary. let’s get back to more important matters…..are we gonna get rid of Igawa or what?
“In all honesty, however this whole Cano Wright thing was brought up, just drop it. it’s pretty dumb and completely unnecessary. let’s get back to more important matters…..are we gonna get rid of Igawa or what?”
This blog is running 24/7. Without conversations like this, there’d be nothing to talk about sometimes.
I think we can all agree that David Wright will never, ever be able to give the quality of interview that Robbie Cano can.
the only way Cano can be as good as Wright is if he wears the same color T-shirt under his uniform for every game, regardless of whether it matches the uni or not. my vote is pink.
What was that Patrick?
ok - so nothing - okay.
God Bless!
“What was that Patrick?
ok - so nothing - okay.
God Bless!”
Whats the point of being a jerk like this? I stated my case, you conveniently ignored everything I said. There is no way you can dispute that David Wright is a better hitter (and overall player) than Cano. Cano could play third and he’d still be worse offensively than Wright.
I’m the same way with the Red Sox. I mean, yes, I hate them, very, very much. And I want them to lose as much as I want the Yankees to win. But don’t tell me that Ramirez and Ortiz suck…They’re 2 of the greatest players in the game. so there.
I hate the Red Sox but they have been a worthy opponent across the decades. As ballplayers, I respect Manny, David Ortiz, and even that joke of a writer/blogger Curt Schilling. As far as our fans booing them at the All Star Game. We are Yankee fans first, American League Fans second.