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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Trade talks in Tampa today

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 24, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Brian Cashman and Billy Eppler will be in Tampa today to sit down with the Steinbrenners, Mark Newman and the rest of that crew to discuss what can be done to improve the team.

The list of needs:

1. Starting pitcher

2. Lefty reliever

3. Right-handed bat

4. Catcher

One trade the Yankees could make now if they wanted would be Kei Igawa and a B-level prospect to Seattle for LHP Jarrod Washburn and DH/1B Jose Vidro. The Yankees would take on $16 million (plus a $500,000 buyout for Vidro) while shedding the $9.4 million owed to Igawa.

So for roughly $7.1 million, you get Washburn for this year and next and Vidro for this season. Washburn would likely want something to waive his no-trade clause, which includes the Yankees.

Washburn would be the No. 4 or No. 5 starter while Vidro would come off the bench. Neither has been very good this season, but they would replace Darrell Rasner and Justin Christian.

Washburn has pitched well of late, making it a deal worth pursuing. Dropping $7 million is pocket change for the Yankees. Take Vidro and DFA him if he’s awful. What difference would it make? Washburn is an upgrade for the rotation.

Washburn’s last eight starts: 51 IP, 54 H, 15 ER, 16 BB, 29 K, 2.65 ERA .722 opposing OPS.

Rasner’s last eight starts: 42.1 IP, 60 H 30 ER 17 BB 29 K, 6.38 ERA, .914 opposing OPS.

There are roughly 10 lefty relievers on the market. Ron Mahay and Brian Fuentes would be tough to get. Others not as much.

There are very few catchers available and teams would want a lot knowing the Yankees have lost Jorge Posada. Rod Barajas would be a good fit, but Toronto won’t trade within the division unless they get something worthwhile in return.

————-

Remember Kyle Higashioka, the California catcher the Yankees took in the seventh round? He visited Yankee Stadium shortly after the draft and that seemed like a sign he would agree to a deal.

Well, Ken Davidoff of Newsday reports that he has, for $400,000. Good signing for the Yankees.

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181 Responses to “Trade talks in Tampa today”

  1. Noonan July 24th, 2008 at 12:07 am

    The Washburn trade is a no-brainer IMO. I also heard the Rockies were scouting Humberto Sanchez for a possible Fuentes trade, even if we have to include another B prospect, that’s a no brainer too.

  2. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 12:11 am

    I disagree about Fuentes. Sanchez could really be a dominant pen arm in a year or two. Replacing Hawkins with Fuentes would be good, sure…but THAT much better than bringing up someone like Bruney, Britton, Horne, cox, or even Strickland? Sure, Fuentes is lefty…but the pen is getting everyone out right now.

    As for the Washburn trade…Vidro is a DISASTER. he’s totally useless. I mean…MAYBE they could cut Sexson for Vidro…would that be better? I dunno.

  3. RalphieD July 24th, 2008 at 12:12 am

    id rather keep sanchez then get fuentes whos gonna be a FA especially when the bullpen is of minimal concern at the moment

  4. JRVJ July 24th, 2008 at 12:12 am

    I have to agree on the Washburn trade being a no-brainer, but admittedly, Vidro is a DFA candidate.

    But if money is all it takes, then the heck with it, let’s do it even if Vidro is DFA material.

    IF Washburn wants an extension or Seattle wants more than a B prospect, then it doesn’t make sense (and this is precisely the type of trade the Yankees SHOULD make – they would be leveraging their financial muscle to take on a bad contract, while surrendering nothing of value. Granted, the Abreu trade was much better, but this is no biggie).

  5. Wangawa July 24th, 2008 at 12:13 am

    Unless you can get Damaso Marte, I don’t think a lefty reliever is that big of a priority right now.

  6. MoBoy(aka McLovin) July 24th, 2008 at 12:14 am

    Better to take Vidro then give up a good prospect.Marte would really help this team out.The Yankees can’t get more then two players from their list of needs without giving up the farm.

    The Yankees best resource on this team is money.

  7. Hugo July 24th, 2008 at 12:14 am

    They would be better off bringing up ANY AAA hitter than they would be allowing Vidro to play – him and his OPS+ of 59.

    Pete, I sincerely hope that this is all speculation on your part and not what Cashman & Co. are seriously considering.

  8. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 24th, 2008 at 12:16 am

    I would love the Washburn deal if we could get Seattle to take on Hawkins.

  9. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 12:16 am

    “Marte would really help this team out.”

    I just don’t understand the logic here. In order for a player to “really help this team out” there’d have to be a glaring hole they’d help patch. Unless you think that half the pen is about to regress for no apparent reason, that makes no sense.

    Oh. Wait, I forgot who I’m talking to. You DO think the whole pen is about to regress horribly for no apparent reason.

    They should trade Farnsworth while his value is high, though.

  10. Giambi Mustache Squad July 24th, 2008 at 12:17 am

    My thoughts on the trade:

    One time I wanted to buy Teen Wolf on DVD. While not regarded as a spectacular movie by most people, it would have made a fine addition to my DVD collection. Problem? It only came together with Teen Wolf 2. So I bought the package, and just threw Teen Wolf 2 in the garbage.

    Get it? My DVD collection is the Yankees. Washburn is Teen Wolf. Vidro is Teen Wolf 2.

  11. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 12:18 am

    “Pete, I sincerely hope that this is all speculation on your part and not what Cashman & Co. are seriously considering.”

    It’s not like it’d be a DISASTER to have Vidro take Christian or Sexson’s spot on the roster. It wouldn’t be great, but it wouldn’t be awful if it added something else…like Ponson not being on the team anymore.

  12. Buddy Biancalana July 24th, 2008 at 12:18 am

    Another brilliant move by Seattle by thinking of even taking on Igawa. Take Washburn, give Vidro a shot & then drop him if need be.

  13. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 12:18 am

    “Get it? My DVD collection is the Yankees. Washburn is Teen Wolf. Vidro is Teen Wolf 2.”

    Zing.

  14. Buddy Biancalana July 24th, 2008 at 12:25 am

    I loved Teen Wolf. Another cheeseball film with a young Michael J Fox film is Midnight Madness.

  15. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 12:25 am

    They would have to be smoking crack if they decided to trade for Washburn.

    WASHBURN IS A LEFT HANDED RASNER ONLY YOU ARE PAYING HIM $10 MILLION A SEASON.

    Washburn WHIP- 1.48.
    Rasner WHIP- 1.5
    Washburn ERA+- 84
    Rasner ERA+- 85
    Washburn ERA- 4.75
    Rasner ERA- 4.83
    Washburn BAA- .297
    Rasner BAA- .298
    Washburn BB/9 IP- 2.62
    Rasner BB/9 IP- 2.68
    Washburn K/9IP- 5.32
    Rasner K/9IP- 5.85

  16. Deryck July 24th, 2008 at 12:25 am

    I’m not sure Vidro can be categorized as a disaster. This year he has been awful, but his last five seasons have been pretty good.

    07 – .314/.381/.394
    06 – .289/.348/.395
    05 – .275/.339/.424
    04 – .294/.367/.454
    03 – .310/.397/.470

    I think he also offers something we haven’t read into it. Right now we have very few opportunities to spell Cano in the field and Vidro (two seasons ago) was an everyday 2B.

    Read into his slugging percentage as you may, it may be old age… it may not. Throw him in the bottom of some lineup and I have to believe he is going to offer a heck of a lot more than other DH possibilities. Add into the fact he is a Switch hitter and has about an equal BA from both sides of the plate and he offers quite a bit. Then consider he has just a 500k buyout and I think it becomes something worth doing.

  17. Ian July 24th, 2008 at 12:28 am

    Would it be at all possible to send some cash to Seattle rather than take Jose Vidro in the deal? Also what type of players are we talking about with B-level? A pitcher like Kontos? Or are we talking about someone better, McCutchen, etc?

    As for the lefty reliever. I don’t think we need one to get through the regular season. Ramirez’s change-up is extremely effective on lefties. However once in the playoffs I could see the need for a lefty reliever as it would really allow Girardi to micro manage the game.

  18. Nick in SF but now in Charlotte July 24th, 2008 at 12:29 am

    Maybe the Yankees don’t need to actually trade for Washburn, they can download him via a P2P file-sharing site. If the file is bundled with Vidro, they can always delete Vidro later.

  19. Say it ain't so July 24th, 2008 at 12:33 am

    I would so much rather have Washburn than the rumored Arroyo. Besides, Washburn’s father was a huge Yankee fan growing up, so you know there’s brains in that family.

    However… we would have to tolerate Michael Kay repeatedly bringing up how much Washburn looks like Kiefer Sutherland.

  20. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 12:33 am

    Are you people smoking crack?

    Vidro OPS- .608

    That ranks 255th out of 270th for players with at least 200 plate appearances. So basically you are dumping a roster spot in favor of some guy who is making how many millions a year to hit like Molina?

  21. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 12:34 am

    “I think he also offers something we haven’t read into it. Right now we have very few opportunities to spell Cano in the field and Vidro (two seasons ago) was an everyday 2B.”

    That would really hurt the D up the middle. Frankly…Betemit hits better than Vidro, and can’t be worse on D. I’d rather put him at 2B if I’m going to sit Cano.

    I dunno. Vidro’s BABiP is low this year. Last year it was high. If he rebounded to his 05 level without the power from here on out, that seems like it’d be pretty possible. And kinda meh.

  22. Yankee Trader July 24th, 2008 at 12:34 am

    Do not want Vidro, and if Washburn/Boras wants compensation, forget him too,UNLESS, deal expanded to include Ichiro.

    Do not want Yankees to give up on Humberto Sanchez, the top prospect we got for Sheffield, for Fuentes. Now if it’s Taylor Buchholz, that would be different.

    No to Mahay-does better against righties.If you want a lefty reliever look at Eddie Guardado whose numbers are good. Personally Edwar Ramirez does better than most lefties then lefty relievers.

  23. tonyb July 24th, 2008 at 12:34 am

    Washburn and Vidro are garbage. They upgrade nothing. You don’t make deals for the sake of making a deal even if it is a salary dump. Remember, that additional money is over the lux tax and some of it will go to support our competitors.

    Trading for a good starter would be worthwhile, but this is a trap.

    A lefty reliever is also not solving any problems. We get lefties and righties out with our current arms and we have Bruney coming back.

    Focus on getting a RH bat / corner outfielder. Maybe get someone to replace Betemit and strengthen the bench.

  24. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 12:35 am

    “Would it be at all possible to send some cash to Seattle rather than take Jose Vidro in the deal?”

    I’m pretty sure the Yankees probably looked into that.

  25. tim boat July 24th, 2008 at 12:35 am

    the need for a lefty reliever is overstated. The Yankees have gotten by fine and the bullpen outside of Hawkins is solid in each spot. I think Edwar can do the job against lefties, that one batter appearance he had against a lefty the other day is a possible portent of Girardi’s thinking in that regard. Forget trying to snag a reliever. What they should do is try developing Chase Wright in the minors as a LOOGY.

    Washburn might be decent move but not if it means an extension.

  26. Tank July 24th, 2008 at 12:36 am

    Include Kennedy and get back Ibanez

  27. Deryck July 24th, 2008 at 12:36 am

    Yeah, I don’t think Vidro is any type of deal breaker… I just think if we have to take him to get the pitcher, you deal with the less than average position player. What’s to lose? An overpaid pitcher in Igawa that the Yankees will never use and a B prospect. And let’s face it, B prospects don’t typically wear pinstripes for any worthwhile time span.

  28. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 12:36 am

    ATTENTION!!!!!!

    THE MARINERS ARE THE WORST TEAM IN THE MAJORS FOR A REASON. TWO OF THOSE REASONS ARE CALLED JOSE VIDRO AND JARROD WASHBURN.

    Why are you so willing to take more and more components of the lowest scoring offense in the American League?

  29. Deryck July 24th, 2008 at 12:38 am

    “UNLESS, deal expanded to include Ichiro”

    Are you prepared to give away Cano and a top ten prospect?

    Me neither

  30. max July 24th, 2008 at 12:38 am

    can you post you tube links here?? cause ive been trying to post this link of joba playing guitar hero with his friend but it hasnt been working. well heres the interview that links you to the youtube video.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  31. G. Love July 24th, 2008 at 12:41 am

    I’m all for this Washburn deal. Vidro is a non issue. You can DFA him or he could be part of rounding out the bench.

    Getting anything of value for Kei Igawa is a masterstroke. Seriously, I was angry that we didn’t give him away for nothing on waivers last season to SD.

    Washburn would be good to have in the rotation mix for next season. He’s the kind of veteran depth this team needs.

    I think Rasner and Ponson have done great jobs but I also think we need insurance policies like Washburn. Let alone another lefty starter.

    That said, I have a feeling Ponson is going to stick throughout the season and hold down his spot.

    Rasner I think will slip back to the pen and be very valuable from there.

    I’m not counting on anything from Hughes, Kennedy or Wang this season.

    The one thing that needs to happen is Hawkins needs to go. I hope he’s DFA’d after tomorrow’s meeting.

    He should not be taking a spot up in that pen since there is no one else who should go down. Giese has been so good and deserves the opportunity more than Latroy.

  32. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 12:42 am

    “Include Kennedy and get back Ibanez”

    Yes, let’s get back two DHes. That’s what we need.

  33. Yankee Trader July 24th, 2008 at 12:42 am

    Washburn straight up for Igawa+low level prospect and any compensation extra paid for by Seattle, would be fine as Washburn’s recent numbers have been better than both Rasner and Ponson. But no Vidro, and no extra years or money for Washburn.

  34. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 12:42 am

    ATTENTION!!!!!!

    JOSE VIDRO CANNOT PLAY A POSITION- HE HAS PLAYED IN 77 GAMES THIS SEASON- 9 AT 1b, 6 AS A PH, AND 62 AT DH. VIDRO HAS NOT PLAYED A POSITION OTHER THAN DH OR 1B REGULARLY IN TWO YEARS.

  35. Sal July 24th, 2008 at 12:42 am

    I would love to see this Washburn/Vidro deal for a few reasons. First and foremost we get rid of the blemish we call Kei. Second Washburn, as you may try to compare him to Rasner, is better than Rasner. He also gives insurance just in case Ponson falters. He also has postseason experience with some success. Not to mention he can easily fit in as the #5 starter next year if needed to be.

    Vidro would actually probably take Gardner’s spot in the future once Damon can start playing the field since I would guess they would want Gardner to play everyday so they would probably send him back down to Triple-A while keeping Christian as a late-inning defensive replacement and pinch runner. He can be this year’s Homer Bush which we haven’t had in a while. Vidro did bat .314 last year and has had more BBs than Ks in 4 of the past 5 seasons not to mention pretty good career numbers in terms of BA and his numbers with runners on and runners in scoring position. The bench will improve once again with Betemit/Vidro vs. righties, Sexson/Vidro vs. lefties, Moeller backup catcher, and Christian as a PH/defensive replacement.

  36. Kill-Schill(ing) July 24th, 2008 at 12:43 am

    GIVE ME BAY. JASON BAY and his .900 OPS.

    Actually, I’d like to see the Yankees consider Dunn if the Yankees don’t have to surrender a premiere prospect and then take the draft picks when he declares for free-agency.

    Yes, Dunn strikes out too much but he walks, hits HRs, and his OPS is .933.

  37. Deryck July 24th, 2008 at 12:45 am

    Who would Cincinnati get back for Dunn? They sure as hell aren’t dumb enough to take Igawa with the staff they are starting to build and his salary.

  38. Yankee Trader July 24th, 2008 at 12:46 am

    Send Hawkins back to Colorado!!

    Pete-Getting Jon Rauch was a steal for Arizona. Do you think we were involved in that scenario, only to spin him or Farnsworth off in another trade? The 2nd baseman, the Nationals got back has great speed, but many see him as a reserve.

  39. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 12:46 am

    Veteran depth for next season= a #5 starter who is paid $10 million and who could be replaced by a AAAA pitcher making league minimum.

    Also, do you know what they call Washburn in Seattle? The Bus. Why? Because whenever he has a crap outing- which is often- the first thing he does is go to the press and start throwing all his teammates under the bus- this catcher called the wrong game, that player didn’t make a play…

  40. Pat M. July 24th, 2008 at 12:47 am

    G. Love makes a real good point, if Hughes is not expected back until late August or even early September at the ML level then Washburn is a serious option….Wang is still in a boot, so I doubt he’ll be back until sometime in mid September at best…..The team is finally finding itself so the only changes to be made are minor tweaking…..Rasner and Ponson to a lesser degree is rather suspect come the stretch drive……Washburn in that role is a big upgrade…..

  41. Deryck July 24th, 2008 at 12:47 am

    Not that I think the Yankees are interested in Adam Dunn, but they would have to send a pitching prospect, probably Melky Cabrera, and either Hughes or Kennedy (maybe more)

  42. Yankee Trader July 24th, 2008 at 12:48 am

    Maybe Vidro developed cataracts, and that’s why his career has nosedived!! Uhoh, hope I didn’t violate any HIPAA rules!!

  43. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 12:50 am

    Oh, $10 million a year also gets you a pitcher that can goes 5 1/3, maybe 5 2/3 rds innings on average.

    No, he is not much better than Rasner.

  44. Deryck July 24th, 2008 at 12:54 am

    One thing about Washburn though… he essentially is not a two year contract. To waive that no trade clause he will want an extension added

  45. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 12:55 am

    Even in Vidro’s near .300 year last year he was nothing but a singles hitter, has no speed, doesn’t play a position, and doesn’t get on base much.

    But hey, he only gets paid 8.5 million a year.

    By the way, math geniuses of the world- the Yankees are over the cap for the luxury tax so they aren’t only paying salary, they’re paying a mark-up for an 8.5 million a year bench guy that can’t hit or play defense and 10 million a year for a #5 starter. What’s the mark-up after the luxury tax? 40%? 14 million a year for washburn and the pro rated amount of 12 million a year for Vidro.

  46. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 12:58 am

    “Not that I think the Yankees are interested in Adam Dunn, but they would have to send a pitching prospect, probably Melky Cabrera, and either Hughes or Kennedy”

    If that’s the price, OBVIOUSLY you walk away. But, all we hear is that no one’s calling the Reds about Dunn. If that’s so, all you have to beat is the two prospects they’d get if they offer him arbitration. And maybe not even that…apparently, they’re loathe to offer him arbitration. They’re looking at getting nothing for him.

    “One thing about Washburn though… he essentially is not a two year contract. To waive that no trade clause he will want an extension added”

    Then, again, you obviously walk away. He’s not such an upgrade that they’re going to do anything stupid. If they have to take Vidro in order to avoid giving up anything more than like…Jeff Marquez, ok they might do that. Maybe.

  47. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 12:58 am

    How about you Costanza’s sit around and figure out how the Yankees can also take Carlos Silva, Miguel Batista and Kenji Jojima off the Mariner’s hands too….

    Think of all the upside…like veteran grit, or how well Batista did when he was with the Diamondbacks in 2001.

    We need another catcher- how about we send IPK over for Jojima and Silva. We can have Silva replace Ponson for the “fat guy” spot in the rotation.

  48. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 1:01 am

    “pro rated amount of 12 million a year for Vidro.”

    So…Vidro has what, like 3 mil left? So, a bit over 4 mil? And it’s gone after this year? Whatever. That’s a drop in the bucket. As far as Vidro is concerned, the roster issue is the only issue. They could take him and DFA him without blinking if it lets them keep a guy they want to keep and upgrade from Ponson to Washburn.

  49. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 1:02 am

    Here is the Mariner fan’s/blog’s take on Washburn…

    I’m sure I’m preaching to the choir here, but just in case anyone was buying the line about it potentially being wise to keep Washburn, here’s why you absolutely have to move him if you can.

    M’s 2009 Committed Payroll:

    Ichiro: $17 million
    Beltre: $12 million
    Silva: $11 million
    Washburn: $10.35 million
    Bedard: ~$10 million (arbitration eligible)
    Batista: $9 million
    Johjima: $8 million
    Putz: $5 million
    Felix: ~$4 million (arbitration eligible)
    Betancourt: $2 million
    Lopez: $1.6 million

    Those M’s are on the hook for almost $90 million for those 11 players. I know, it’s brutal, but it’s true. They do have a decent group of pre-arbitration guys who will all be cheap (Morrow, Green, Lowe, Dickey, Rowland-Smith, Clement, Balentien, Reed) and will fill roles on the club, but this team needs to add five or six new players this winter, with at least three of them being starting quality.

    You don’t have to fill all the holes through free agency, but having $36 million in budget room is a lot more appealing than having $25 million in budget room, especially when Washburn is so easily replaced by the Dickey/Rowland-Smith/Morrow group of cheap arms.

    It doesn’t matter if the M’s get any talent back in return. For the health of the 2009 team, they need to get Jarrod Washburn’s salary off the books. If you get a player back who can help you, bonus, but the correct answer to any trade offer that involves the M’s unloading his entire 2009 salary is “yes”.

    YES, WASHBURN IS SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT THAT THE FANS OF THE WORST TEAM IN BASEBALL CAN’T WAIT TO GET RID OF HIM AND THE FANS OF A CONTENDER TREAT HIM LIKEHE IS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST.

  50. Deryck July 24th, 2008 at 1:03 am

    “We need another catcher- how about we send IPK over for Jojima and Silva.”

    Right…

  51. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 1:04 am

    “Think of all the upside…like veteran grit, or how well Batista did when he was with the Diamondbacks in 2001.”

    Who the hell cares about that? I’m concerned about getting Ponson and his drunken WHIP of 1.8 or whatever out of the rotation. And, maybe putting Washburn out there with Damon in LF and death valley in left-center allows him to bump his numbers a bit to league average. If all it costs is money and Kei Igawa…why the hell shouldn’t they do that? Because the Twins would get an extra 150 grand out of the luxury tax?

  52. Phillip Dale July 24th, 2008 at 1:05 am

    And that’s where Seattle comes in. The Yankees also allow you to trade some lineup for as little as $ 100. This is a very fast and simple way to make the Yankees.

  53. Sal July 24th, 2008 at 1:06 am

    Vidro is a FA after this season so that immediately comes off the books.

    In a perfect world sure you would like Ponson and Rasner to both continually to succeed but you have to make sure you have options open if one or, worst case scenario, both falter. Washburn averages about 6 innings per game, has gone 6+ in 11 of his 19 starts, and has given up more than 4 runs in 3 of his 19 starts, one being a total debacle where he gave up 9 earned runs in 2.1 innings, take that outing out of the equation and his ERA is more than .25 lower. He’s a workhorse with playoff experience and success.

  54. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 1:06 am

    They could trade for Vidro and then DFA him? Wow- so just piss away 3 million bucks (this team losses money, by the way) so you can hope to acquire a #5 starter that you’ll have to pay 10 million for next year? That is brilliant financial sense. Are you a CPA? Do you even hold a primary sector job?

  55. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 1:07 am

    “THE FANS OF A CONTENDER TREAT HIM LIKEHE IS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST.”

    Calm down. “Wow, he’d sure be a better bet than Ponson” is much, much more like how people are reacting. And that’s far from ridiculous…especially if it only costs money. They’re currently holding the line on Vidro…we’ll see what happens.

  56. G. Love July 24th, 2008 at 1:08 am

    For Dunn, you basically have to send Cincy two players that will be better than what they can get with the first round compensation picks. I think Ohlendorf and another decent prospect might be able to get him.

    The trick for Cincy is if Dunn signs a free agent deal with a team with a pick in the first round from 1-15 (I believe), they don’t get the first round compensation pick and only get the sandwich pick.

    Considering Dunn may sign with a struggling team with a high pick after this season, it behooves Cincy to deal him now for actual prospects.

    There’s also the fact that the Yankees will assume a large portion of his contract for the rest of the year, so the prospects might not have to be as good as you’d think.

    I’d trade for him. His k’s are canceled out by his power, on base percentage and avg. with runners in scoring position.

    He can DH, play 1b, play a corner OF spot. I know we have a lot of those guys, but this is a big step up from what we currently have and further rounds out this team.

    I think Posada coming back as a DH/1b would be just about the worst thing for this offense. I doubt 2 weeks of rest are going to make him rediscover his power.

    He’d be a very below avg. DH and 1b and shouldn’t even be considered unless his rehab games show the pop has returned to his bat.

    Ideally, Damon is going to play LF. We need a DH. Dunn would be great in that role and could also spell Damon and Abreu and let them DH as well.

  57. Mike July 24th, 2008 at 1:09 am

    My take on the deal

    1. Jose Vidro stinks. He may hit well(Im being very nice by saying that) but he is the Giambi at 2B, big liability at the defense. I dont want him back

    2. Washburn isnt THAT great but I can live with him if we just give up Igawa and maybe a C prospect.

    3. The big thing with Washburn is that he wouldent be a starter if we make the playoffs which means he will become the lone left handed reliever on the team and give the Yanks some option to use to get specific batters out. He can be used as a longman or a LOOGY/1 inning left handed pitcher out of the pen, which can sort of kill the need for a left handed RP

    We shall see, I just prefer no Vidro back.

  58. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 1:10 am

    “They could trade for Vidro and then DFA him? Wow- so just piss away 3 million bucks (this team losses money, by the way)”

    The organization doesn’t. They know their financial situation WAY better than you do. I’m pretty sure that they could afford to eat Vidro’s contract if they had to, in order to keep their interesting prospects and get rid of Ponson.

    I’m not saying that they SHOULD take Vidro and then cut him. I’m not even saying that they SHOULD get Washburn. I’m saying it’s far from the idiotic move you’re making it out to be.

  59. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 1:15 am

    Your definition of workhorse must be, “Six innings or less in 16 of 19 starts.”

    He did go 8 innings against Oakland (ranked 12th of 14th in the AL in runs scored) and 7 2/3rds against San Diego (ranked 15th of 16th in the NL in runs scored).

    But you all are right- what do I know, I just have watched every start of his this year.

  60. Ed - Yanks will be Yanks in the 2nd half! July 24th, 2008 at 1:18 am

    I wouldn’t mind Washburn, but could we sub Vidro for Ichiro? We need Ichiro’s glove until someone from the minors are ready to take over RF. Bobby’s glove isn’t cutting it in the field.

  61. Blargh July 24th, 2008 at 1:19 am

    “The trick for Cincy is if Dunn signs a free agent deal with a team with a pick in the first round from 1-15 (I believe), they don’t get the first round compensation pick and only get the sandwich pick.”

    They don’t get hosed that bad; they get the other team’s 2nd round pick if the 1st round is in the upper half, for type A’s. So regardless, they get 2 picks in the end.

  62. Deryck July 24th, 2008 at 1:20 am

    “I wouldn’t mind Washburn, but could we sub Vidro for Ichiro? We need Ichiro’s glove until someone from the minors are ready to take over RF. Bobby’s glove isn’t cutting it in the field.”

    Again, what part of our starting lineup are you ready to give up to get him? They wouldn’t want Damon or Cabrera and we would not move ARod or Jeter… so again it would have to be Cano and a Tabata type to get an aging outfielder plus the other guys already in the deal

  63. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 1:22 am

    “They don’t get hosed that bad; they get the other team’s 2nd round pick if the 1st round is in the upper half, for type A’s. So regardless, they get 2 picks in the end.”

    Yeah, but a pick in the 20s and another in the 40′s beats a pick in the 40s and another in the 60s or 70s by a LONG shot.

    Also, there’s noise that they’re loathe to offer him arbitration for some reason. I don’t really get it, but that’s the word. They claim they’re afraid he’ll accept it. Not sure why they’d be “afraid” of that. Anyhow, they might be looking at paying him for the rest of the year and then getting nothing. So…if the Yanks were to look at Dunn…They might not even have to beat two top picks…just take on his money and give up two interesting, but not amazing, arms.

  64. Guiseppe Franco July 24th, 2008 at 1:23 am

    I have little doubt that Washburn could help the Yanks this season. But my problem with acquiring him is the ramifications and domino effect it would have on the rotation for 2009.

    Since Washburn is signed through 2009, they would be guaranteeing a spot for him in the rotation next season. I believe Pettitte will be back next season if his elbow feels good and Wang, Joba, and Hughes will certainly be back.

    That leaves the Yanks with a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes, and Washburn on Opening Day 2009. And those of you who want to see Sabathia wearing pinstripes next season, the acquisition of Washburn just might scrap those plans.

    Considering this team’s lack of offense this season, it wouldn’t be the worst strategy in the world to sign a Sabathia (if he wants to sign with them) and really turn the rotation into an enormous strength to go along with their improving bullpen with Farnsworth and Hawkins gone and Humberto Sanchez, Melancon, and Ohlendorf competing for roles.

    From top-to-bottom, the Yanks could go into 2009 with the best pitching staff on paper in the AL with that pen and a rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, and Hughes. They could then use some of the young arms in the system to fetch a decent RH bat or two.

    Anyways, to my original point, if Washburn does not pan out for one reason or another, the Yanks are stuck with him through the end of 2009.

    It’s not a case like Rasner, Ponson, or a minor leaguer who can be sent down to the minors or released altogether at the drop of a hat. Washburn carries a $10M+ price tag, so he’s going to remain with the team no matter what unless they try to deal him.

    And as we already know, trading away underachieving talent is not the easiest thing to do.

    Again, I do think Washburn can help this team this season. But I’m not sure I’d want him at the cost of guaranteeing him a spot in the rotation for 2009 before he throws a pitch for this club.

  65. Ed - Yanks will be Yanks in the 2nd half! July 24th, 2008 at 1:25 am

    Again, what part of our starting lineup are you ready to give up to get him? They wouldn’t want Damon or Cabrera and we would not move ARod or Jeter… so again it would have to be Cano and a Tabata type to get an aging outfielder plus the other guys already in the deal

    I would what you saying. “trading for another mid 30 player with a huge contract” is just a waste and stupid. if you think i was actually serious, im not, it was just scarasm. Ichiro did said last season, he wanted to join the Yanks before resigning with the M’s.

  66. Ed - Yanks will be Yanks in the 2nd half! July 24th, 2008 at 1:26 am

    oh yeah, its true that Ichiro’s glove is better than Bobby’s.

  67. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 1:27 am

    It is an idiotic move because you are stuck with a crappy pitcher filling a roster spot at 10 million plus luxury tax next year and this is a player that can easily be replaced with someone in AAA (I’d rather take my chances with IPK or even Karstens).

    What happens in 2009 when you have Wang, Joba, either one of Pettite or Moose will likely come back, Hughes and Washburn? Who do you get rid of? Do you say, forget about Pettite or Mussina so that you can try to sign Sabathia? Do you say goodbye Hughes? In other words, does Jarrod Washburn end up taking a starting pitcher spot away from either Hughes, IPK or another prospect? Or do you just attempt to trade Washburn and his 10 million salary to someone who is stupid enough to pick him up? (Maybe Bill Bavasi will get hired somewhere).

    And what is the payoff? How many starts will Washburn have instead of Ponson between now and whenever Wang or Hughes comes back? Six? Seven? How many of those starts would the drunkard Ponson lose and how many would Washburn lose? Out of six or seven starts perhaps one or two fewer than Ponson?

  68. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 1:28 am

    “Again, I do think Washburn can help this team this season. But I’m not sure I’d want him at the cost of guaranteeing him a spot in the rotation for 2009 before he throws a pitch for this club.”

    With the timetable on Hughes, it’s very likely that he’ll have to earn his way back up here next year. I doubt that Washburn would stop them from signing Sabathia. And, as we’ve seen, rotation slots have a way of clearing themselves. If it’s only one year…that’s something to consider. That’s why I don’t want Arroyo (also, he sucks); the commitment to him is so much longer.

  69. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 1:31 am

    Amen, Guiseppe Franco, you articulated what I was thinking far better than I did.

  70. Sal July 24th, 2008 at 1:31 am

    Washburn is a substitute for someone getting paid that will help the ML team for someone getting paid, maybe not as substantially, that will help the AAA team.

    The trade is low risk/high reward as it doesn’t involve any big prospects. This trade also allows us to worry about 2008 and worry about 2009 when the time comes around with no much ramifications. In no way shape or form getting Washburn prevents the Yankees for making a run at C.C. it will be up to C.C. whether to sign with them or not.

  71. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 1:35 am

    “And, as we’ve seen, rotation slots have a way of clearing themselves.”

    So the plan is, let us sign aging players in their mid-30s, with contracts that can’t be unloaded and hope all the roster spots pan out. Yes, that seems to have worked out swimmingly through the years 2002-2008.

  72. E-Man July 24th, 2008 at 1:37 am

    And what is the payoff? How many starts will Washburn have instead of Ponson between now and whenever Wang or Hughes comes back? Six? Seven? How many of those starts would the drunkard Ponson lose and how many would Washburn lose? Out of six or seven starts perhaps one or two fewer than Ponson?

    Right now it’s Rasner who’s spot is in question. He’s throwing near or over 100 pitches every start and barely makes 5 innings. If not Washburn, what’s the alternative?

    You’re also assuming Wang and Hughes are coming back this season. Wang was said to be ready at the earliest September. Hughes? Who knows. They might just make him earn his way back like Kennedy.

  73. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 1:38 am

    COntinued examples from Mariner blog land- their tongue in cheek hopes to get rid of Washburn…

    “I’m not sure you could ask more of a starting pitcher than to go up against that Red Sox offense and come away having only given up two runs. What an example for the rest of the rotation to live up to in this season. “We can challenge these guys and do well,” Washburn’s performance says.

    All in all, another demonstration that Washburn is the foundation of this rotation and we’re lucky to have him. I hope that this performance helps prove that if he’s going to be traded, he should demand a high price indeed. This is exactly the kind of gutty start you’d want in a playoff contending rotation.”

  74. DFox July 24th, 2008 at 1:38 am

    I don’t really like the Washburn deal. I just don’t understand it. Yeah, Rasner and Ponson aren’t anything amazing, but anyone who actually believes Washburn is going to be much better than either one of them is fooling themselves. Rasner and Ponson are both decent. Washburn is practically the exact same thing as them. He’s so close to their level that he can actually be a DOWNGRADE, you really don’t know.

    When people say the Yankees need another starter, yeah, they are right, but they need another starter who is better than Washburn. It seems like making a deal for the sake of making a deal.

    I don’t know much about him, but what about calling up someone like Aveces instead of making a trade?

  75. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 1:40 am

    I hate to tell you, but look at Washburn’s numbers this year- he throws over 100 pitches a start and barely makes it through 5 innings. All at the bargain basement price of 10 million a year and a roster spot next year.

  76. Espresso July 24th, 2008 at 1:40 am

    Washburn stinks. I don’t see Ichiro actually being available, but he is absolutely amazing and the more you watch him the more you realize you’ve never seen anyone play like that.

    I guess I would take Washburn to get rid of Igawa, but Kei is cheaper and they are both terrible. Also why would the M’s want him. He’s bad and not all that cheap.

  77. stuart July 24th, 2008 at 1:42 am

    Washburn trade a no brainer.. True it takes a lack of brains to get him.. you are stuck with him for another year.. I do mean stuck.. he stinks and nice of Peter not to feel bad about wasting an additional $7 mill of Georges money..

    No brainer Washburn sucks and isn’t it interesting that you cherry pick the #’s that show Wshbum in the best light.. He is 32 or older been in decline for at least 3 yrs and stinks… Vidro would fit in well with the Yanks a DH type who cannot move and stinks and also is in decline.. Igawa stinks but gets $4 mill per, why take on Washbum who ties up a slot for next yr.

    NO FRIGGIN THANKS, PASS……..

  78. stuart July 24th, 2008 at 1:45 am

    Gang I am not saying rasner or Sidney are any good, they are cheap, Rasner is much younger , and they do not tie up a spot for next year.

    I love how Peter and many bloggers throw around $7 mill. like it is 25 cents..

    Why make a move that may be a slight slight upgrade??

    Either go for a big move or for slight upgrades do the ; ponson, sexson, BS Cashman has been doing for the last few years…..

    Again Washbum stinks, just because he pithc’s good against the ynaks does not mean JACK>

  79. E-Man July 24th, 2008 at 1:46 am

    I hate to tell you, but look at Washburn’s numbers this year- he throws over 100 pitches a start and barely makes it through 5 innings. All at the bargain basement price of 10 million a year and a roster spot next year.

    In his last 4 starts he’s gone 5.2, 6, 8, 6

    Rasner has gone 5.2, 5, 5, 5

    Try looking over those numbers again.

  80. DFox July 24th, 2008 at 1:48 am

    I have to agree with Stuart.

    They’re going to make this trade and that’s that to replace a 4.83 era with a 4.75 era?

    That’s just silly. Make a big SP improvement or go after an outfielder instead.

  81. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 1:48 am

    “Rasner and Ponson are both decent. Washburn is practically the exact same thing as them.”

    Ponson has been getting by on smoke and mirrors. He’s a time bomb. I figured he’d be gone by now, but no such luck.

    Washburn is not a great pitcher. He’d probably be fine. Kei Igawa costs 12 million over the next three seasons. I just looked it up on cot’s contracts. So, if the trade is Igawa, it’s actually thirteen mil (this year prorated plus the next three) going to the M’s. I’d take on Washburn for next year and only next year rather than pay Igawa to play in AAA for the next three years. That whole 12 mil is subject to lux tax too, you know.

  82. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 24th, 2008 at 1:50 am

    Washburn >>> Igawa.

    ‘s enough for me, and again, I am ultra conservative when it comes to trades. I don’t like parting with anyone!

  83. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 1:50 am

    “Why make a move that may be a slight slight upgrade??”

    Because it’d replace Ponson’s 1.8 WHIP with a 1.5 WHIP. And lefties get a boost in the stadium. And, if the trade is Igawa…that’s 13 mil off the books over the next three plus years. If you get back Washburn’s contract ONLY, that’s a good deal for the Yanks. More money up front, but shorter.

  84. DFox July 24th, 2008 at 1:50 am

    “In his last 4 starts he’s gone 5.2, 6, 8, 6

    Rasner has gone 5.2, 5, 5, 5″

    Uh, who cares? Whether it’s Rasner, Washburn, or Joe Shmo, they are the end of the rotation guy, and the most you really want them going is 5 or 6 innings being that our bullpen is pretty untouchable. When you leave guys like Rasner or Washburn out there for that long anyway, that’s how you lose games. If Washburn came to the Yankees, he wouldn’t ever be pitching 8 innings.

  85. stuart July 24th, 2008 at 1:51 am

    I think and hope Cashman is to smart to take someone elses garbage(washbum and Vidro).. I can’t believe educated yankeed fans could even think this trade is beneficial to the Ynaks……

    Peter what are you drinking???BTW I think Ponson is worse then Rasner but has been very lucky recently both of them are 5th starters at best and so is Washbum but he makes $10 mill.

    So Braniacs and Peter how is a crappy 5th starter at $10 mill a good deal?????????

  86. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 1:53 am

    As a side note, New York had their issues with suntan lotion at Yankee stadium last week. In Seattle, the PC capitol of the world (actually, I think Portland may be first), peanuts and crackerjack…yes, you read that right, peanuts and crackerjack, are banned from Sections 311 and 312 of Safeco field to help avoid “peanut allergies”.

    It is bad enough I can’t smoke in a ballpark anymore, now it is getting to the point where I can’t have a friggin’ peanut?

  87. DFox July 24th, 2008 at 1:53 am

    whozat, now we look at WHIPs over era’s? If the era’s are similar, then OK, but Ponson has a 4.02 and Washburn has a 4.75. Where’s the upgrade? We are upgrading WHIPs right now?

  88. stuart July 24th, 2008 at 1:55 am

    Whozat the yare stuck with a $10 mill unmoveabl contract.. Yeah for 1 yr but $10 mill. Igawa makes $4 mill over the next 3 years…

    Washburn sucks you think he is an improvement.. You have no clue…

    DOes washbum get a slot next yr. because of his salary? You think he can pitch out of the pen? No way he walks to many batters….Ask Big Papi I think a few years ago in the playoffs he jacked washbum to win a game..

    He stinks, sidney stinks so.. sidney makes $360k……..

    this is a improvement a 32 yr old bum is a improvement over all the young potential arms…….

    all you need to know is seattle wants to get rid of him… Vidro also has a 300 OPS…You guys think these are upgrades???

    What are you guys drinking or smoking???

  89. stuart July 24th, 2008 at 1:56 am

    I meant OBP….

  90. Grandy July 24th, 2008 at 1:58 am

    “The list of needs:

    1. Starting pitcher

    2. Lefty reliever

    3. Right-handed bat

    4. Catcher”

    Why do you think the Yankees need to trade talent away to get any reliever, regardless of his handedness? The yankee bullpen is pretty solid, aside from Hawkins. And bruney will take his spot anyway.

    The yankee minors are loaded with relief arms.

    The bullpen is the only place they don’t need to upgrade.

    Vidro should be DFA’d immediately if he were acquired. Giving him any at-bats at all simply will hurt the team and is waste of time and wins.

    I’m not sure that Washburhn is a big enough upgrade over eithe rPonson/rasner to warrant acquiring him. I fully expect Ponson to blow up, starting Sunday night in Boston.

    The last few years, here are Sidney’s numbers:

    2004: 5.30 ERA, 1,55 WHIP
    2005: 6.21 ERA, 1.73 WHIP
    2006: 6.25 ERA, 1.69 WHIP
    2007: 6.93 ERA, 1.89 WHIP

    Pitchers with WHIP over 1.50 almost always find their way to ERA’s north of 5.00. Don’t judge Sidney as a decent picher based on 4 starts as a Yankee this year. Look at what he has done the last 4 years. He didn’t magivally learn to be effective all of a sudeen. Take a look at the number of baserunners he has allowed in these games. His WHIP is 1.72 as a Yankee in these 4 starts. So while his ERA in those 4 starts is good for a 5th starter, I fully expect his ERA to rise accordingly, and very quickly. WHIP is the much better and more reliable predictor of future performance I’m hoping he’s the guy the Yankees will kick aside if they acquire Washbrun. Rasner is better than Sidney.

    And I think the “Right-Handed Bat” you mention sort of needs to be an outfielder as well. They already have Sexson at 1B, and obviously there is no room at 2B/3B/SS/RF. And the team already has too many DHs. The obvious place for an upgrade would ne LF or CF. Gardner has been terrible, and Melky has been very replaceable.

    If Washburn is really the best the Yankees can do for a pitcher, I’d rather they focus on a hitter.

    Do you have any idea what it would take to bet Jason Bay? It will probably take a lot. But the Yankees do have a serious hole at OF looking ahead to the next couple of years. Maybe Adam Dunn’s value is lower than you’d expect because of the low batting averages. He’s a big time offensive force though.

  91. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 1:59 am

    How does Igawa even factor into this conversation? Let me get rid of a guy who isn’t taking up a ML roster spot who will get paid 12 million over three seasons so I can replace him with a guy on the ML roster who makes 10 million. Also, ignore that at some point in the next couple of years you can probably trade Igawa to someone, even if for a bucket of balls and have them eat a relatively low yearly salary for a lefthander- why Cashman didn’t ship him off to San Diego when rumors were he could is beyond me.

  92. DFox July 24th, 2008 at 1:59 am

    Yeah I think a lot of people have a very distorted view of this trade.

    It’s a salary dump, we get it. But this is NOT the case where you do salary dumps. You take a player from a team that’s looking to dump salary when the player is VERY GOOD.

    Go back some years, the Abreu dump. The Yankees did it because Abreu is a VERY GOOD player. Washburn is NOT. Since when do you take a salary dump on bad players? That’s just stupid. Lack of creativity on Cashman’s part.

  93. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 2:00 am

    Stuart, it is okay- I think Vidro’s OPS may be at 300 too.

  94. Grandy July 24th, 2008 at 2:05 am

    Vidro is absolutely awful. He should take up pitching along with Tony Pena Jr. It looks like Vizquel has finally been benched as well.

    But anyway getting back to Vidro. The M’s have been using him and Cairo to cover 1B/DH, which is hilarious because it is so dumb.

    AVG OBP SLG
    Cairo .225 .298 .284
    Vidro .222 .266 .319
    AL 1B .260 .344 .421
    AL DH .246 .333 .416
    SEA 1B .221 .312 .354
    SEA DH .197 .249 .280
    NL P .148 .182 .178

    Seattle DHs aren’t much better than NL pitchers.

  95. Bob Gamere July 24th, 2008 at 2:05 am

    Why aren’t we talking about the proposed Randy Winn Benji Molina trade, that makes even more sense, take on SF’s big payouts for them and plug both in.

  96. Guiseppe Franco July 24th, 2008 at 2:07 am

    I want to get rid of Igawa as much as the next guy, but I don’t want to see this team suckered into a dumb trade just to get rid of him.

    Washburn is certainly better than Igawa, but Igawa can be sent down and tucked away in Scranton for 2009.

    If Washburn doesn’t work out, he’s dead weight on the 2009 roster.

  97. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 2:08 am

    I do not know where the infatuation for a left hander int he bullpen comes from, particularly when you have Britton and Bruney coming back and the pen is firing on all cylinders.

  98. stuart July 24th, 2008 at 2:08 am

    Grandy and Rusty Jogn right on..

    Yeah they took Abreus contract because he can play…

    these braniacs want to take washbums contract on because Igawa stinks, and the point is???

    Bay is the move for the right package.. Or Nady even though is a much better player who has been much more consistent with much higher top end #’s.. That is a move, that is a improvement with the idea to let Sterlings man crush Abreu go at the end of the year..

    They are so damn lefty dependent offensively it is crazy.

    Next these braniacs will want to get Miguel Batista from seattle because he pitched well against the Yanks in 2001, and can start or relieve.. It does not matter to them that he stinks and is old and makes big money……

  99. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 2:11 am

    If there is one player from Seattle they should be looking at, it is Ibanez. Although left handed he hits lefties well, has a little bit of pop, his defense in left is pretty crappy, but he is certainly a servicable DH whose contract expires at the end of the year.

  100. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 2:12 am

    “Why aren’t we talking about the proposed Randy Winn Benji Molina trade”

    Where is this proposed?

    Look, Igawa and Washburn cost about the same. Washburn is likely to perform better than Ponson; that helps the team right now. Washburn could provide SOME cushion against Kennedy and Hughes not being able to step up…again. Or, against Wang’s injury lingering. If not, well…it’s a one year deal. If you have to, you can eat some cash and ship him off next year. Someone just traded for Randy Wolfe, for chrissake.

  101. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 2:13 am

    Oh, and Ibanez hits well (at least better than most Yankee hitters) with RISP. That is an incredibly leftie line-up though….

    Damon
    Jeter
    Abreau
    ARod
    Giambi
    Ibanez
    Cano
    Molina
    Melky

  102. Guiseppe Franco July 24th, 2008 at 2:14 am

    I wouldn’t touch Nady.

    Look at his career numbers – he’s clearly overachieving this season. And the Pirates would be selling high on him.

    That’s a sucker trade for the Yanks because Nady’s offensive production would be guaranteed to go down.

    If they are going to trade for either Pirates’ OF – it should be Bay. But I wouldn’t trade for him now because the asking price is way too high.

    See what happens in the offseason and hope the price goes down.

  103. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 2:14 am

    Yes, and those who traded for Randy Wolfe were stupid.

    How is 4 million a year “the same” as 10 million a year?

  104. E-Man July 24th, 2008 at 2:15 am

    Uh, who cares? Whether it’s Rasner, Washburn, or Joe Shmo, they are the end of the rotation guy, and the most you really want them going is 5 or 6 innings being that our bullpen is pretty untouchable. When you leave guys like Rasner or Washburn out there for that long anyway, that’s how you lose games. If Washburn came to the Yankees, he wouldn’t ever be pitching 8 innings.

    That’s nice but when the rest of your rotation is going 5-6 innings a game it doesn’t work out well later in the season. We’ve been lucky with the bullpen. Let’s not allow their arms to fall off from pitching 4 innings a day 2 to 3 times a week.

  105. Grandy July 24th, 2008 at 2:15 am

    The Astros are run by idiots. That GM Ed Wade is a buffoon.

  106. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 2:17 am

    “If they are going to trade for either Pirates’ OF – it should be Bay. But I wouldn’t trade for him now because the asking price is way too high.”

    He also is a barely adequate left fielder. The Yanks need someone who can play right.

    If they’re going to overpay in a big trade, might as well go for Holliday. BP, at least, sees him as a sufficient RFer. And, they aren’t concerned about his splits.

    I trust their evaluation methods over my own, crude, reading of raw Coors/not-Coors numbers.

  107. Phil July 24th, 2008 at 2:17 am

    Aceves or McCutchen, maybe even Ian Kennedy are better bets than adding Washburn who is a mirror image of Rasner at this point. Eric Hacker could probably offer more… The idea is to get at least league average through a back of the rotation trade, not league below average.

  108. Guiseppe Franco July 24th, 2008 at 2:18 am

    If you have to, you can eat some cash and ship him off next year. Someone just traded for Randy Wolfe, for chrissake.

    But it is almost August and Wolf was just moved. We’ve wanted Hawkins moved all season and it hasn’t happened yet.

    Dead weight is dead weight.

    They’ve played 100 games already and those guys are/were occupying rosters spots that could be used for someone else.

  109. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 2:19 am

    “How is 4 million a year “the same” as 10 million a year?”

    When one is a three year commitment and the other is a one year commitment.

    You complain so very much about how much Washburn would cost to have on the team, and how he’d cost too much to be cut…but tell me how it’d be any worse to cut Washburn and pay him to play somewhere else than it will be to pay Igawa to play in AAA for the next three seasons.

  110. DFox July 24th, 2008 at 2:20 am

    “Let’s not allow their arms to fall off from pitching 4 innings a day 2 to 3 times a week.”

    Their arms aren’t going to fall off. Right now every single reliever in the bullpen is extremely reliable except Hawkins, and with more help on the way, you’ll have another arm in Bruney.

  111. stuart July 24th, 2008 at 2:20 am

    whozat Randy wolf makes peanuts…Washbum is unmoveable contract except for pschotic yankee fans….

    next yr. without any big signings the yanks staff is potentially any of these guys; hughes, wang, joba, kennedy, aceves, mccutcheon, other AAA guys, pettitte, and even Moose.. SO having Washbum would hurt because Pettitite and Moose are better as is wang and Joba for sure.. And the other guys are younger with more potential so Washbum taking up a slot does hurt..

    yOUR Paying millions for 6 starts for a 5 in9ng bum who every month or so has a big outing…..and this is a shrewd move???? IF his contract was expiring of course but it is not…………

    NO NO NO.. BTW CHristian is more valuable then Vidro by far becuase he hs speed and can field… So it is a non brainer to play Vidro over CHristian, they need a late inning guy who can run and it should be either chrisitan or garder….aske dave roberts if late inning speed can help you win but NAH get Vidro the yanks only have 4 or 5 dh/!B types with no speed and poor fielding

  112. Guiseppe Franco July 24th, 2008 at 2:22 am

    If they’re going to overpay in a big trade, might as well go for Holliday. BP, at least, sees him as a sufficient RFer. And, they aren’t concerned about his splits.

    That would be a big NO on Holliday.

    He’s going to be a FA at the end of 2009 no matter what and Cashman certainly isn’t going to give up the young talent to get someone who is going to be a FA next year.

    And forget the “sign him to an extension” stuff. He’s a Boras client. And Boras clients always test the FA waters.

  113. DFox July 24th, 2008 at 2:25 am

    “And forget the “sign him to an extension” stuff. He’s a Boras client. And Boras clients always test the FA waters.”

    That makes absolutely no sense. The Yankees don’t sign expensive free agents anymore? That’s news to me. It’s one thing signing old free agents who are declining, but Holliday is 28, why wouldn’t they pay a lot of money to resign him if he’s good? If they traded for him this year, they get a trial, and if they like what they see, they can pay the money.

  114. Yo Semitee July 24th, 2008 at 2:27 am

    Let’s face it, if the yankees want a serious offensive upgrade (Holliday/Bay) they are going to have to give up quality talent.

    If the Yankees want a decent but unspectacular fill-in (Nady/Ibanez) it probably won’t be worth the talent that it will cost to get them.

    And if the yankees want to make it seem like they are improving the team when in fact they aren’t changing much at all except jamming the rotation for 2009, they will acquire Washburn.

    And if they want to look completely clueless, they will take Vidro with him.

  115. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 2:27 am

    “yOUR Paying millions for 6 starts”

    Actually, I’m exchanging contracts of roughly equal value to upgrade the team this year.

    Again, the proposed deal is Igawa for Washburn, and perhaps Vidro. Look at the collective values of the deals. Pete’s number is wrong, add 4 mil onto Igawa’s contract (signed through 2011). It’s fairly close to a wash.

    The worst thing that happens with Washburn is he sucks and they DFA him next season. So they eat the money. They were going to be paying Igawa to pitch in AAA for the next three years anyhow. How is paying Washburn 10 mil to disappear any different? It all happens at once…in a season where they can write off huge chunks of money due to the new stadium anyway.

    So, really…all that matters is whether Washburn is likely to play better than Ponson over the rest of THIS season. Their peripherals say that, yes, he probably is.

  116. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 2:29 am

    Yes, over three years Igawa does make as much if not more than Washburn. Again, you are missing the point.

    First, Igawa sucks, but is not taking a MLB roster spot. The “cost” of Washburn is more than his salary because he blocks potentially better players and cheaper players if not later this year, than next year.

    Second, Washburn would likely be untradeable once the Yankees got him unless Houston wants to get him and rename their team the Houston Suck-o’s. As a result, it is fairly certain that the Yankees would eat all of that contract. There is a greater liklihood that Igawa would be traded- for a team that desperately needs pitching, a leftie making 4 million a year is not a horrible thing.

    Perhaps reading up on things like opportunity cost and other basic economic premises may help- might I recommend David Gwartney’s “Economics: Private and Public Choice” as a starter?

  117. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 2:29 am

    “But it is almost August and Wolf was just moved.”

    Frankly, he was fairly serviceable earlier in the season. And the Padres didn’t really have anyone pushing him out of the way.

  118. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 2:31 am

    “Yes, over three years Igawa does make as much if not more than Washburn. Again, you are missing the point.”

    No, you are.

    Consider Igawa 12 mil spent on someone not on the MLB Yankee roster. Washburn, if they DFA him before next season, would cost 10 mil to not be on the Yankee MLB roster. How is the latter any worse than the former?

  119. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 2:32 am

    Sorry, James Gwartney….the co-author is named David. Silly me.

  120. Guiseppe Franco July 24th, 2008 at 2:33 am

    That makes absolutely no sense. The Yankees don’t sign expensive free agents anymore? That’s news to me. It’s one thing signing old free agents who are declining, but Holliday is 28, why wouldn’t they pay a lot of money to resign him if he’s good? If they traded for him this year, they get a trial, and if they like what they see, they can pay the money.

    Do you even understand English?

    It has nothing to do with the Yanks not wanting to sign expensive free agents. It’s about Cashman’s unwillingness to deal his top prospects for a guy who is going to be a free agent next year.

    Now that is what makes absolutely no sense.

    If they want to sign Holliday, wait until 2009 because they won’t have to give up anything but money to get him.

  121. whozat July 24th, 2008 at 2:33 am

    “There is a greater liklihood that Igawa would be traded- for a team that desperately needs pitching, a leftie making 4 million a year is not a horrible thing.”

    And you think that a “proven” MLB starter wouldn’t attract more interest, if the Yanks ate a little money?

  122. mel July 24th, 2008 at 2:39 am

    There seems to be a different vibe this year for the pitchers. I pointed out regarding Mo preaching confidence to Edwar.

    No one wants to be the wink link and 1-12 (13) they’ve all stepped up. Being aggressive, getting strikeouts, limiting the long ball and free passes, and avoiding meltdowns of the past.

    If it sends Igawa to a better situation and brings someone who’s pitching well, take a flyer.

    As much bashing as Girardi took in the beginning, one thing he’s done well is nurturing players by showing confidence in them. He’s done it with Kyle and handled the bullpen well. Putting Robertson in situations where he can learn to succeed.

    Let’s hope the reclamation projects of Ponson, Sexson, and possibly Washburn & Vidro continue to work out.

  123. DFox July 24th, 2008 at 2:42 am

    Guiseppe Franco, you’re completely missing the point. I get it’s because of the prospects, but if you’re willing to give up the prospects, then don’t worry about the contract. They would have no trouble re-signing him. And don’t be so sure he wouldn’t sign an extension. Boras doesn’t have the same leverage he had before the A-Rod fiasco.

    The bottom line is if you want Matt Holliday, and you’re willing to give up the prospects, forget the free agent stuff. You’re trading for him because you want him NOW.

  124. Grandy July 24th, 2008 at 2:44 am

    Forget Vidro. Sure if you think Washburn can pitch better than rasner or Ponson than maybe you do the trade. But there is no hope for Vidro. And the Yankees have no use for him anyway.

  125. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 24th, 2008 at 2:44 am

    Do you even understand English?

    It has nothing to do with the Yanks not wanting to sign expensive free agents. It’s about Cashman’s unwillingness to deal his top prospects for a guy who is going to be a free agent next year.

    Now that is what makes absolutely no sense.

    I know that. You know that. Does everyone else know that, maybe Arod has to put a sign on his forehead since everyone pays 100 % attention to every little thing he does.

  126. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 2:52 am

    whozat, are you retarded? can you not read the remaining words below what you quoted? let me lay this out because it appears you reside somewhere between the towns of Imbecile and Low Grade Moron…

    There are players, some players are better than others. There is also a fixed number of spots on a major league roster. That would be 25 spots. Now, when you have a player that sucks and gets paid lots of money, that player prevents a cheaper, better player from taking that spot.

    The “cost” of that is a cost that is quantifed in an increased number of wins that a team could have won if that better player was on the roster. It is also quantified in the difference in salary between better, cheaper player and crappy, more expensive player.

    So, let us use a hypothetical- one player makes 10 million a year. That player in our hypothetical will win 10 games a season. There is a replacement player who makes less than that, perhaps $300,000 a year in our hypothetical. That player, in our hypothetical, will win 12 games a year. THe “cost”, in addition to the $9,700,000 in salary, is 2 wins.

    Your response to this is “Well, we can just DFA the player making 10 million.” However, in the business world, moeny doesn’t go on trees (although the Federal Reserve does print it at will) so a team isn’t going to DFA a player, eat 10 million in salary for two wins. I know that as the guy who puts the meat in the warm liquid at Quizno’s these ideas may be hard for you to fathom, but try to move along.

    Igawa doesn’t add the “cost” of those losses at the major league level because he isn’t on the major league roster. He can suck as much as he wants at AAA, but he isn’t preventing a better player from taking his spot in the majors. As a result, a player like Rasner who makes league minimum can take that spot and get more wins than Igawa can.

    As for the other “cost” of Igawa, his salary, you are assuming that he will never, ever be traded for the remaining years on his contract. That he will remain at AAA, never contribute to the MLB team or never get sent to another team. That is highly unlikely. As a result of that, Igawa’s future costs are not certain.

    That is why Washburn is worse than Igawa even though they make around the same amount of money- the former in one year, the latter over two or three years, Igawa is not “preventing” a better player from having a spot on the ML roster and his future costs are uncertain.

    If they do not trade for Washburn, they do not take on his certain salary, leave that ML roster spot open for a cheaper, better player AND they still can get rid of Igawa to the next team that has a better offer.

  127. Christy Canyon July 24th, 2008 at 2:54 am

    The Pirates GM is no idiot like Bavasi or Wade. Here’s an answer he gave in a recent interview about how the organization values players:

    “We are going to utilize several objective measures of player performance to evaluate and develop players. We’ll rely on the more traditional objective evaluations: OPS (on base percentage plus slugging percentage) , WHIP (walks and hits per inning pitched), Runs Created, ERC (Component ERA), GB/FB (ground ball to fly ball ratio), K/9 (strikeouts per nine innings), K/BB (strikeouts to walks ratio), BB%, etc., but we’ll also look to rely on some of the more recent variations: VORP (value over replacement player), Relative Performance, EqAve (equivalent average), EqOBP (equivalent on base percentage), EqSLG (equivalent slugging percentage), BIP% (balls put into play percentage), wOBA (weighted on base average), Range Factor, PMR (probabilistic model of range) and Zone Rating.”

    This guy knows bay is valuable, and he won’t hesitate to ask for a good haul. But Bay might be worth it.

    And Holliday would cost even more.

  128. lardo July 24th, 2008 at 2:56 am

    I underatand that is is very financially irresponsible to just DFA Washbrun and say “Yippee it’s only 10 million dollars.”

    However, if they just have Igawa sit in AAA for the next few years, is the net result any different?

    Either way it is a complete loss of 10 to 12 miollion dollars.

  129. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 3:06 am

    “And you think that a “proven” MLB starter wouldn’t attract more interest, if the Yanks ate a little money?”

    No, because smart teams- the ones who entered the 21st century- don’t look at what a player did when they were 27 to determine whether to acquire him at 34 or 35.

    Washburn sucks. Does he suck as much as Ponson? No. Is he “worth” 10 million? Hell no. Washburn’s numbers are equivalent to Rasner or any other #5 MLB starter. As a result, a smart team is not going to want to pay $8 million or $6 million when they can replace that hole with a guy making $300k/year.

    Igawa makes, what, $4 million a year? If the Yankees eat some of that salary, then yes, a team might want to take a chance on a leftie who is a AAAA player at a million bucks or so a year.

    You are throwing around millions like it is nothing- like ten million or 8 millin or 6 million dollars is nothing. About twenty teams in the majors have payrolls under $100 million- how many of them are financially capable of increasing their payroll 6-8% for a number 5 starter? This isn’t monopoly money.

    Further, in case you haven’t noticed, more and more teams are recognizing the importance of the draft and not giving up draft picks and employing “Moneyball” techniques to build a team on the cheap and also locking up young players with longterm deals early. The trend is away from big contracts and there are only 5 or 6 teams that are willing and capable of spending $10 million a year on marginal players.

  130. RustyJohn July 24th, 2008 at 3:19 am

    “Either way it is a complete loss of 10 to 12 miollion dollars.”

    Again, it assumes Igawa will never contribute to the ML roster and he will never be traded. If they get Washburn, it is pretty much a guarantee that most of the contract would be paid by the Yankees and he would prevent a rotation spot from being occupied by a better player.

    If they don’t Igawa is in AAA, the ML roster spot remains open. Igawa can later be traded- will the Yanks get rid of all of his contract? Not unless he goes lights out in AAA and the Yanks get to showcase him for a couple of starts in the bigs that he looks good in. Otherwise, they will likely have to eat part of it.

  131. Sal Antonio July 24th, 2008 at 3:24 am

    “Again, it assumes Igawa will never contribute to the ML roster and he will never be traded.”

    if the opposing team will only take igawa off the yanks hands by dumping jose vidro on the yanks, then i really doubt igawa will ever be traded away in any reasonable way. but i guess you never know.

  132. Matthew Cohen July 24th, 2008 at 3:40 am

    Washburn Rasner Ponson
    HR 13 7 6
    BB 32 22 27
    K 65 48 36
    IP 110 73 78
    FIP 4.43 4.04 4.31

    HR/9 1.1 0.9 0.7
    K/9 5.3 5.9 4.1
    BB/9 2.6 2.7 3.1
    K/BB 2.0 2.2 1.3

    Uh Pete – so you want to spend all that cash to replace Rasner with Washburn?

    I think if anyone goes, it’s Ponson.

    Can’t see how this makes much sense. And we’d have a tough timed dumping Washburn next year with the no trade.

    If they really want to win an extra game, I guess Washburn might make sense over Ponson. But it is a pretty high price. Especially if Wang comes back after 6 Washburn starts and Washburn replaces an equivalent pitcher in Rasner at a much higher price.

  133. Matthew Cohen July 24th, 2008 at 3:48 am

    The pen is fine. The Yanks have the 4th lowest bullpen ERA in the AL.

    Mo is Mo
    E-Ram and D-Rob are better than average.
    Veras is average
    Giese has been good.
    Farnsy is lucky not to have a 5.50 ERA with those 10 dinger he has given up.
    Hawkins is below average.

    We need to get Bruney back up.

    Next year, we’ll have Melancon, maybe Cox and a host of other options including Sanchez, Ohlendorf, Britton and Albaladejo.

    Kudos to Cash on the pen.

    Trading for bullpen arms makes no sense. Save the assets for something else.

  134. Matthew Cohen July 24th, 2008 at 4:00 am

    A right handed bat, preferably one who can play 1B or LF in a pinch would be very valuable.

    You are essentially swapping out Gardner for someone that you know that can hit.

    Bay will be very expensive – I don’t think that we can do it unless we trade away a 2-3 prospects.

    Dunn – might be do-able given that he is a FA.

    Untouchables
    Hughes, Jackson, Melancon, Betances, Montero

    Only for Bay
    Kennedy, Gardner, McAllister, Tabata

    Tradeable
    Cox, Sanchez, McCutchen, Horne, Miranda,

    That is enough to get Bay or Dunn if we give up a package of 3-4 guys. Question is, do we do it?

    Also if we get a RHB, we can tell Jorge to have the surgery now. Maybe that is all a bluff before the trade deadline anyway.

  135. tim boat July 24th, 2008 at 4:10 am

    Forget Washburn. Can’t we just get Chacon back. Good kid, has got guts and hey, didn’t he whoop Ed Wade a few weeks ago? Come on down Shawn.

  136. ian Nobody July 24th, 2008 at 4:10 am

    why is betances untouchable? the guy can’t throw strikes and he’s untouchable?? i think i would rather have ian “nobody” kennedy than d.cabrera jr.

  137. tim boat July 24th, 2008 at 4:14 am

    honestly? The bullpen is fine. It’s not like the Yankees don’t have depth/options with Kennedy back in AAA throwing well, Karstens, and yes even Ziggy Iggy. Being stuck with Washburn for another year may not be worth it. Plus Cano and even Jeter and Abreu are showing signs of life. Might as well just roll the dice with what we’ve got.

    No on Ibanez. Another lefty/DH type that’s not what the Yankees need.

  138. Jorge Steinbrenner July 24th, 2008 at 7:59 am

    I don’t make the trade. I don’t see Washburn as a difference-maker this year, and the 4 & 6 spots have not been too much of a hinderance that they’ve gotten in the way of us going……oh, 11 games over .500. Being stuck with him next year is a biggie as well.

    I don’t buy the “his contract is worse than Igawa’s” talk. As it stands now, we’ll be on the hook for less with him. I’m not exactly counting on the Padres’ past man-love for Igawa being of the “til death to us part” kind.

  139. Jorge Steinbrenner July 24th, 2008 at 7:59 am

    i meant “4&5″ spots. sorry….just woke up.

  140. Mark Alan July 24th, 2008 at 8:02 am

    You’d think the Yankees would leap at the chance to pick up another washed-up pithcer, and it’s obvious that the team needs another aging 1B/DH type.

  141. 86w183 July 24th, 2008 at 8:04 am

    There can be little doubt that a RH bat for the outfield has to be the # 1 priority. We can all agree Washburn is an upgrade over either Ponson or Rasner, but he is a very expensive upgrade, particularly for 2009 if both Pettite and Mussina with to return… Vidro is flat out useless at this stage.

    Jason Bay is a mediocre outfielder. Adam Dunn is horrendous out there. Dunn being a LH hitter doesn’t help much at all. That’s why I have always preferred Nady who is better defensively than the other two, can play RF in ’09 and makes less $$$ too.

    David Ross (Cincy) would make a solid upgrade over Moeller as a # 2 catcher and he can be used as a pinch hitter (38 HR ’06, ’07 combined). I’d use Kennedy or Horne but not both to make the Nady deal with maybe Chase Wright or JB Cox. Ross shouldn’t cost much since he is a very expensive reserve by Cincy standards… maybe Britton and Marquez gets him?

  142. Buzz July 24th, 2008 at 8:19 am

    how much does washburn get per year 12mil? if it was one year left i do it but what are we going to do with him next year put him in the bullpen? im sure he wont like that

  143. Vito July 24th, 2008 at 8:21 am

    Add Arthur Rhodes to the deal then DFA Vidro. Washburn isn’t the worst arm you can have with Moose and Andy being free agents and possibly retiring at season’s end. Ponson and Rasner are blow-up candidates. They can only get by with smoke and mirrors for so long.

  144. Don Vito A. Bellamo July 24th, 2008 at 8:23 am

    MAKE THAT DEAL !

  145. Cody July 24th, 2008 at 8:41 am

    Overall, I’d rather focus on Washburn than a left-handed reliever. I’d focus more on an outfielder than a reliever, even, although I really don’t feel the Yankees need to add a bat.

  146. Don Vito A. Bellamo July 24th, 2008 at 8:47 am

    The list of needs:

    1. Starting pitcher ( how about 2 ? )

    2. Lefty reliever ( another 2 ? )

    3. Right-handed bat ( take 2 of those ! )

    4. Catcher ( one of these will be fine )

    Check, please !!! :-)

  147. Yanksrule57 July 24th, 2008 at 9:11 am

    Have any of you calling for the Yanks to make this deal for Washburn seen him pitch the past couple of years?

    I have, at least when he has pitched against the
    Yanks.

    He does not impress me.

    I think some of you want the deal for deal makings sake. He is not a significant upgrade over Rasner. I also don’t think he is worth the money they would pay. Why should they help Seattle out like that when it is a marginal improvement at best?

    This deal doesn’t make sense either strategically or econimically and I bet they don’t do it

  148. Jeremy July 24th, 2008 at 9:13 am

    It stuns me that “lefty reliever” can be the Yankees’ second-highest priority when we have Matsui and Posada out for the season (or in Posada’s case, out as catcher at the very least), and the pen has been so good.

    We do not need a lefty for the sake of having a lefty. The pen is fine – why overpay for a lefty reliever to fix what isn’t broken?

    Who would send down to make room for this lefty reliever? We have to assume that Bruney will take over Hawkins’s spot, so the answer would be to give up on Bruney. That seems like a strange move. No one else in the pen even conceivably deserves to be replaced right now.

    The Yankees should focus their resources on improving their offense, which is pretty much the only area where a trade could make sense.

    They will not trade for Washburn. It’s just such a dumb move. You don’t take on an albatross pitching contract because the otherwise crappy pitcher has reeled off some good starts. If Ponson had a $10 million salary and still pitched for Texas, would it have made sense to trade for him because he had won his last few starts? Of course not, he’s been lucky and will eventually be exposed as the mediocrity he is. We took on Ponson because he’s basically free.

    Washburn is in the same boat – mediocre (or worse) but lucky of late. Only he’s got a terrible contract. We would get a slight improvement over Rasner for a huge price (which would be even bigger if we got the useless Vidro in the deal).

    Sometimes it seems that people hate Igawa so much that they want the team to make trades just for the sake of getting rid of him.

  149. 86w183 July 24th, 2008 at 9:33 am

    A RH bat is the only NEED the Yankees have. They WANT to upgrade #4 or # 5 starter. They WANT to improve # 2 catcher. They WANT a LH reliever, but they NEED a RH bat to take over LF.

  150. drillmiiister July 24th, 2008 at 9:33 am

    i heard that the only untouchable players are hughes and melancon.. so if the deal comes they are goin to give up top prospect…i hope not cause we are fine right now we dont need nobody..why we dont call up aceves for rasner or ponson if they fluke and call up carson for either for gardner or christian it would add a good righty bat that has power..

  151. hmmm July 24th, 2008 at 9:56 am

    Pete,

    isn’t Igawa owed closer to $13M? where is the $9.4M coming from?

  152. hmmm July 24th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    “It stuns me that “lefty reliever” can be the Yankees’ second-highest priority when we have Matsui and Posada out for the season (or in Posada’s case, out as catcher at the very least), and the pen has been so good.”

    this is Pete’s list.

    who said it is in the order the Yankees have it?

  153. hmmm July 24th, 2008 at 10:00 am

    “I have, at least when he has pitched against the
    Yanks.

    He does not impress me.”

    this is a little ironic since he has completely owned the Yankees over his career.

    i am not saying he is great, but if you had only seen him pitch against the Yankees, wouldn’t you’d think he was pretty good?

  154. OldYanksFan July 24th, 2008 at 10:12 am

    Washburn is an upgrade over Rasner in the same way that paying $3m for a Toyota with cupholders is an upgrade over paying $100k for the same Toyota withOUT cupholders. With all the injuries we have suffered, and now Posada, Washburn like is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. At least with Rasner, if he improves a little, he might actually have value to the Yankees in the future as a player of a trade chip.

    The Yankees have lost a ton of games where we held the opposition to 4 runs or less. Short of a SP who will throw a shut out or 1 run game every game, an ‘average’ SP just isn’t going to make a noticeable difference. Same with a LHP for the BP. If he ain’t a LH version of Joba, it ain’t gonna matter.

    Folks…. the is Baseball, not horseshoes.
    The is no trophy for coming close to the PS.
    We either make the PS or we don’t.
    Now that we are without Posada, in order to make the PS, WE NEED an impact player. Bay, Holliday, Burnette, Dunn or Barry Bonds. A guy who makes a difference.

    There are no impact catchers to be had, without losing our pants. Molina is better this year then Veritek. We can live with Molina/Moeller IF we can an impact player.

    And if said impact player will HELP THE TEAM IN 2009 AND BEYOND, which an OFer will, then we need to GIVE UP SOME TALENT. Part of our farm is TRADING CHIPS. We have a dearth of potential MLB pitchers on the Farm. It is OK to let some go, as long as we get a young, productive player in return.

    1) Make a fair trade for Holliday. -if not —-
    2) Make a fair trade for Dunn. -if not —-
    3) Make a fair trade for Jason Bay. -if not —-

    We are playing golf in October.

  155. Someone Else July 24th, 2008 at 10:19 am

    “We are playing golf in October.”

    Lol – so, Holliday, Dunn, Bay, or no postseason?

    Dunn’s the guy I’d target; no blue chippers on the table, though.

  156. hmmm July 24th, 2008 at 10:39 am

    “We have a dearth of potential MLB pitchers on the Farm. ”

    i am not sure “dearth” means what you think it means.

  157. saucY July 24th, 2008 at 10:52 am

    “I loved Teen Wolf. Another cheeseball film with a young Michael J Fox film is Midnight Madness.”

    should i be embarassed to admit having ‘Midnight Madness’ on DVD?

  158. SubwayHeroes July 24th, 2008 at 11:07 am

    I’d rather have Holliday/Bay than Dunn.

    Also — I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn’t have to give up that much.

  159. abcd July 24th, 2008 at 11:24 am

    getting washburn basically gives hughes/kennedy/aceves no chance to pitch this year. if they want to keep them down the rest of the year, then fine. but if they plan on bringing them back up, then i wouldn’t make this deal.

  160. Sal July 24th, 2008 at 11:27 am

    “How does Igawa even factor into this conversation? Let me get rid of a guy who isn’t taking up a ML roster spot who will get paid 12 million over three seasons so I can replace him with a guy on the ML roster who makes 10 million. Also, ignore that at some point in the next couple of years you can probably trade Igawa to someone, even if for a bucket of balls and have them eat a relatively low yearly salary for a lefthander- why Cashman didn’t ship him off to San Diego when rumors were he could is beyond me.”

    Yeah that makes sense. Spend 4 mil a year for what the next 3 years a guy helping the AAA team rather than a guy making 10 mil who can help the ML team.

  161. JoeT 28 in 09!! July 24th, 2008 at 11:35 am

    IMO:

    1 – Starting Pitcher – is a need
    2 – Lefty Reliever – is a WANT and definitely not a need
    3 – Righty bat – would be nice to add but is not a “get at all costs” need
    4 – Catcher – same as 3, it would be nice to add one with the loss of Posada but if we get a righty non-catcher bat (I assume someone like Bay, Nady, Holliday) then we can 100% definitely live with Molina behind the plate everyday, even as a weak hitter.

  162. Jamie July 24th, 2008 at 11:43 am

    just read a rumor on mlbtraderumors discussing cano to the dodgers for matt kemp and derek lowe. I realize that there are 100 rumors out there but any thoughts on this one?

  163. Yankees35421 July 24th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    THE YANKEES DON’T NEED A CATCHER!

    Molina is the best catcher in the league, and his lack of offense doesn’t seem to be hurting the team. Leave good things alone.

  164. jon July 24th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    Yanks won’t trade Cano…I make the Washburn deal, but Vidro is useless. He’ll just add to the majority of one-dimensional first-base/DH types…but again, if Vidro doesn’t cost us anything and we can release him, so be it. I do it. I don’t know if Washburn wants to really come to NY though.

  165. jake July 24th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Some of the posts are just so ridiculous. . .

    Jarrod Washburn is a better bet than either Sidney Ponson or Darrel Rasner. Anyone who’s watched baseball over the past few years knows this. The subject doesn’t even merit discussion. Washburn is only a mediocre ML starter, but Ponson is something less than that and Rasner, while he’s had his moments, has no track record as a regular ML starter.
    Ponson has “won” some games for the Yankees, but he hasn’t pitched very well at all–unless, of course, you think that 39 baserunners allowed in 22 innings is good.
    Washburn is known as a tough competitor and an innings eater. He used to be a bit better than he is now, but he is a competent back-of-the-rotation starter. Over the past two months, he’s pitched very well. He’s shown an ability to deal with pressure, and there will be plenty of that over the next two months.
    Jose Vidro has been a waste of space and money lately. But he’s been a .300 hitter for years and his sudden, steep drop off this season either means that he’s hurt or very bored. So he’d either get DFAd, DLd, or respond to the better atmosphere in NY and be a good bat off the bench.
    Try to be sane, people. This would not be an earth-shattering deal. But it would make sense for the Yankees in every way.

  166. bigjf July 24th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    I do not want Washburn and Vidro. It seems to me they’d be taking on more money for two players who are not better than what we have. I’d rather give Aceves a shot if Rasner or Ponson goofs up enough. We need a bat, but Vidro is not it. We need an everyday bat.

    So far, I see no need for a lefty reliever, but I do think we need a catcher. I’m wondering what the cost would be to bring in Bengie Molina from the Giants…

  167. Mr. Faded Glory July 24th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    Washburn can’t be judged by his “last 8 starts.” I’d rather see a kid promoted than a known quantity of suckitude. I mean Ponson sucks, but he was free, essentially.

    Vidro is done. He’s had an awful year and his decline is in full effect.

    No thanks, terrible idea.

    Target someone like Jason Bay or Scott Hairston along with a bullpen arm.

  168. Jon July 24th, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    Go get Holliday. Give up a few Kennedy, give up Melky, and one blue chipper and maybe a lower grade guy, and go get Holliday. He’s proven. He’s young. He’s prime. The Yankees used to not even think about deals like this. You can sign him long term, and have a great player for years. Go get Holliday.

    I’d get Burnett over Washburn. I’d get Washburn over Igawa, at least Washburn can pitch in the majors.

  169. bigjf July 24th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Rox would want 3 or 4 blue chip prospects for Holliday, and I’m not so sure they’re going to be sellers. They might just stay put and try to make a run in that weak division. Fuentes might be staying put too.

  170. Jeter2007 July 24th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    we need a sp

    rp has been fine

    we can’t rely on ponson & rasner for 40% of our starts

    i’m fine with washburn & his contract, i’d do that

    hope the franchise comes back strong

  171. Jeter2007 July 24th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    we don’t need offense, we need sp

    our offense is better than tb’s, we just have bad sp

    we do need a catcher, if we’re not believing in moeller

    molina is great, but he can’t hold up over the rest of the season

  172. Matthew Cohen July 24th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Holiday is mediocre away from coors.

    Look it up.

  173. Terry #1 July 24th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Even though I don’t think the Yankees need Washburn, I’ll agree that the Mariners would find Igawa appetizing if only because he’s Japanese.

    Also, their season is done for, so they’ll be more than happy to play to the Japanese crowds. They may decide to ante-up on that fact alone which increases Igawa’s trade value well above his expected value to any other ball-club.

    I say trade Igawa for prospects, picks, and a little money (Washburn and Vidro are nice but I think unecessary) but don’t upset the chemistry too much (granted, the chemistry among everyday players and the bullpen is different than among the comparably loose fraternity of starters).

  174. Terry #1 July 24th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Yankees35421: “THE YANKEES DON’T NEED A CATCHER!”

    You always want a solid third catcher in the system somewhere to protect the first two. I don’t know the quality of the current AAA catcher (and I don’t mean his statistics, ANYONE can read statistics) so maybe someone can help me there?

    Moeller used to be the third back-up until Jorge became unworkable. He’s since been moved up in the pecking order.

    Catchers break down. It’s the hardest position in the field and a playoff candidate that doesn’t plan for a replacement, including one for the backup catcher, is irresponsible.

  175. Terry #1 July 24th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Jeter2007 said:

    “we do need a catcher, if we’re not believing in moeller
    molina is great, but he can’t hold up over the rest of the season”

    Molina is the best replacement for Posada anywhere in the league. The Yankees are lucky to have him and don’t think the Yankees don’t read the CERA statlines. Or that this latest run of well-pitched games is occuring with Molina behind the plate.

    Baseball is more than just stats; it’s about relationships in a professional environment and off the field. Molina has built his rapport and rep with the rest of the players and especially the pitching staff over a LONG drawn-out period. He knows what they expect from him and vice versa.

    The Yankees are NOT going to make drastic changes and risk throwing that chemistry out of balance mid-season for 50, 100 or even 150 points of OPS. And BTW, that assumes that any ballclub would willingly let that calibre a catcher go (NOT likely, and NOT without a high price).

    Molina stays where he is unless disaster strikes. That lees likely to happen because the attributes that got him into the starting role (defense and ball-calling) are not as prone to “bad streaks” as offense.

    Moeller, who can catch Rasner exclusively, will give Molina the fifth or odd day-off, much like Molina gave Posada his fifth day off.

    As far as the catching goes, the Yankees have made preparations, and those plans have bourne fruit.

    Bravo Zulu, I say.

  176. craig July 24th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    I imagine Vidro had HUGE ego issues coming into the season because the M’s were trying to get their youngsters involved and not playing him and/or dropping him down in the order and basically treating him like someone they wish wasnt around. Given some confidence and protection, better batters in front and behind him that NY offers, he would regain his swing IMO. He IS a professional bat. However, being an M’s fan I NEVER thought he should have been anything more than a bench bat. He should be an awesome PH.

    With the needs I see that the Yankees have listed, why are they not trying to get Burke or even Johjima instead of Vidro? Jo has been a near .300 hitter every year but fell to the same issues as Vidro and Burke, our 3rd string, should be our starting catcher IMO. In fact I would try and get Burke way before I would consider Washburn and the way the M’s evaluate talent you should be able to get him for nothing more than a reach around.

  177. R2H July 24th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    99% of what I am reading on this is garbage. You are all well almost all missing the point we are going to trash Igawa who has been a utter disappointment! You are all right though Washburn is garbage NOT the guy has been pitching great as of lately and if you are going to compare stats with Rasner (who is good) why don’t you compare their last 8 starts not the whole season of work! Washburn got off to a horrible start this season and has looked pretty good since then! You are all TYPICAL Yankee fans make it sound like we are getting burnt in a trade that is actually pretty good! We only have to pay the rest of Vidros contract out and we get a SOLID 4 or 5 guy for another year at what is considered below market value! If he does ask for more that would cause another problem! As of now though our next year rotation would include:
    Wang
    Chamberlain
    Hughes
    Washburn
    Possible: Pettitte or Mussina
    I personally am looking at that as pretty good!
    Add onto this we are going to have a bunch of money coming off the books and with a solid middle of the order guy like Washburn we can save the money and not go after Sabathia and get a good bat

  178. UtilityMan July 24th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    I want the Mariners to include Miguel Cairo in the deal.

  179. Noonan July 24th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    Why is this even a discussion? We essentially pay 7 million for a solid back of the rotation AL starter and a backup utility guy in Vidro. Some of you guys act like you’re paying the bill. Our payroll is our biggest asset, if we don’t use it, we are idiots. Washburn has like a 2.85 ERA over his last 8 starts, I guarantee you Rasner or Pontoon don’t. I like Rasner, but I’d rather go into October with Washburn as a starter than Rasner. Washburn has proven he can pitch in big games. Yes, that was 6 seasons ago, but that still demonstrates his mental makeup. Even if he’s a little better, he’s still better, and it’s still an improvement. It also helps that he’s a lefty.

    As for Vidro, did anyone know he had 3 hits and 2 RBI’s against Boston last night, including a homer off Buchholz? I really don’t think this guy is done. I think he’d be a nice righty DH to use every now and then off the bench. Maybe the guy wants to show suitors he has something left.

  180. Terry #1 July 25th, 2008 at 12:12 am

    Craig said: “I imagine Vidro had HUGE ego issues coming into the season because the M’s were trying to get their youngsters involved and not playing him and/or dropping him down in the order and basically treating him like someone they wish wasnt around.”

    The M’s treat everybody like that, outside of Suzuki, Johjima and King Felix. There are fewer ballclubs in the Majors who have a worse reputation for management, from the ownership to the front office to the skipper.

    Lou Piniella knew what he was doing when his core players of Boone, Edgar and Olerud were gone. As I said before, he saw the trainwreck coming when the organization had fully Japanized the Mariners.

    The next skipper failed to reverse the course. Then again, it wasn’t really Hargrove’s fault; he tried to change the culture but got bucked by the likes of Ichiro.

    Sexson was all too happy to be released (and still get paid). The M’s mis-management of Richie is the Yankees’ gain.

    “why are they not trying to get Burke or even Johjima instead of Vidro?”

    As I said, the Mariners are not going to part company with one of their Japanese star players (although Kenji is hardly star material).

    I don’t know much about Burke.

    But besides that, there is no WAY the Yankees are going to start breaking in a brand new catcher for the starting role.

    Definitely not with Girardi (a former catcher who knows better) and the confidence he has in Molina.

    Again, unless there is a COMPLETE disaster, nothing dramatic is happening in the catching slot.

    End-of-discussion.

  181. Terry #1 July 25th, 2008 at 12:19 am

    Noonan said: “Why is this even a discussion? We essentially pay 7 million for a solid back of the rotation AL starter and a backup utility guy in Vidro.”

    Excuse me, but some of us actually have a history of going to Yankee games and are having a tough time shelling out the cash (and scheduling the right time) as it is…

    Heck, I’ve made plans to go only to cancel them all season long.

    In Mattingly’s days, this wasn’t a problem.

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