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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Washburn still on the radar

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 25, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees seem to be trying to find a way to get Jarrod Washburn. A few things are at play:

If he wants to waive his no-trade rights, great. But they’re not going to extend him or pay him off to do that. They also want Seattle to pick up some of the money Washburn has remaining. That is likely flexible based on the quality of the prospects they trade.

* There is no evidence that the Yankees are pursuing a catcher. There are plenty of teams trying to get them to take a catcher. Big difference.

* The Yankees aren’t flat-out saying no to Barry Bonds because you can’t flat-out say no to anything. But it’s not happening.

* The lefty reliever market is being driven by Colorado and Pittsburgh. Both seem think they can get blue-chip prospects for those guys. They probably can’t.

 
 

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335 Responses to “Washburn still on the radar”

  1. Fran July 25th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    I don’t think the Yankees have a need for a catcher. If they are going to make any deals, I would like to see them get a starting pitcher or a corner outfielder.

  2. Chet July 25th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    Washburn for Igawa is a no brainer but Seattle will want more than that.

    I would roll the dice on the bullpen as currently constructed with Melancon and Bruney.

    A RH power corner bat is the only thing I would trade for. IPK would probably have to be sacrificed.

  3. Chris July 25th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    i heard melky or gardner in a deal with washburn and not igawa
    id trade melky for washburn in a heart beat….id trade melky….think about it washburns avg and OBP isnt too far behind melkys

  4. Buzz July 25th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    nooooooooooooo

  5. Del The Funkee Homosapien July 25th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    right now Im livin good for the citaaayyy!!

  6. TKinDC July 25th, 2008 at 11:27 am

    The Cards and the Brew Crew are apparently desperate for a lefty reliever too, which does not help.

    I think the Cards have led more of their games than any other team, but have choked away a ton of leads b/c of bad relief pitching.

  7. JoeyA (Girardi instead of Moeller) July 25th, 2008 at 11:27 am

    Pittburg and Colorado are quite annoying with their requirements. No team is going to bite at their ridiculous demands.

    In any event, i was never a huge fan of the Joba fistpumping and all. i felt it a bit more warranted as a relief pitcher, especially in a jam, but as a SP, it’s not necessary unless it’s like the 8th with runners on in a one run game and u get a big K to end the inning. BUT, tonight, he can fistpump the Sox to hell for all i care. fistpump each K i say, after that bum Papelbon and his middle-finger shirt and all his garbage during the ASB, fistpumping = necessary.

  8. William Buckner July 25th, 2008 at 11:28 am

    I’m luke warm on adding a starter. 4th and 5th might be able to be filled with guys like acaves or kennedy.

    i’m very hopeful on a RH bat. i think that helps our most pressing need.

    i’m against a LH reliever, at least if it costs us anything valuable. Pen hasn’t been the problem.

  9. Andy in Rainy Daytona July 25th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    “think about it washburns avg and OBP isnt too far behind melkys”

    so it should be higher than Gardner’s then.

  10. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    Del,

    You watching New Jack City?

  11. Jorge Steinbrenner July 25th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    walk away. Washburn’s a slight upgrade this year, and a nuisance next year.

    you also don’t weaken CF and put it all in Brett Gardner’s hands to get Jarrod Washburn. Unless the small sample you’ve seen has been enough to convince you he really can man CF that much better than Melky until Austin Jackson can take over, if that ever does happen.

    He sure hasn’t convinced me.

  12. Chet July 25th, 2008 at 11:30 am

    Washburn for Igawa or no deal.

  13. back bench July 25th, 2008 at 11:31 am

    OT, but did anyone notice that:

    “The Colts will sign QB Jared Lorenzen Thursday, reports Adam Schefter.

    The Hefty Lefty isn’t done yet! The Colts need another arm in camp with Peyton Manning out, but Lorenzen could have a chance to stick if they decide to carry three quarterbacks into the season. Profootballtalk reported Wednesday they were also going to sign Quinn Gray, and perhaps one of the two could make the team.”

    Source: Rotoworld

  14. Del The Funkee Homosapien July 25th, 2008 at 11:31 am

    I dont like washburn at all. Personally, Im a fan of Ponson over Washburn.

    besides, washburn sounds like some type of std medication

  15. Skippy July 25th, 2008 at 11:31 am

    You know what I love about the whole Barry Bonds storyline? It seems like the story is almost solely media generated. They keep bringing his name up, pushing and hoping and almost cheering the Yankees on, hoping they’ll bring in Bonds. And why? Because if the Yankees were ever crazy enough to do it, then the same media members could spend the rest of the season condemning the Yankees for signing him. The self-righteousness, shock and horror would be out of control.

  16. Del The Funkee Homosapien July 25th, 2008 at 11:32 am

    ray…hahahahaha, no close…I was watching the chapelles show episode with tron.

  17. pete needs a shot of optimism! July 25th, 2008 at 11:33 am

    i see the washburn deal happening with 2 minutes left before the deadline, i think seattle will cave in and take what they can get. cash money knows what to do, we’ve been winning with out him, he’ll push a hard bargain.

  18. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 11:34 am

    Del,

    That was a funny episode of Chapelle’s show.

  19. JoeyA (Girardi instead of Moeller) July 25th, 2008 at 11:35 am

    Is anybody optimistic with Kennedy given his last start in AAA. Do we think he has figured something out since going down or is he just better than most minor leaguers and not good enough for major leaguers.

  20. ANSKY July 25th, 2008 at 11:35 am

    No need for a C. Molina’s solid on D.

    No blue chippers for a short-term lefty bullpen arm.

    No Bonds. No freakin’ way. Just … no.

    No Santana contract or big extension for Washburn. Just Igawa.

    No word on any Tiexiera talks?

  21. ANSKY July 25th, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Skippy

    The same media horde that would be bashing a Bonds/Yanks deal would be saying they were the ones that broke the story first.

    They’re just taking a blind shot that it’s something that’ll materialize for them. The idiots.

  22. Del The Funkee Homosapien July 25th, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Kennedy never had a problem at any level in the minors. he dominates minor league hitting. Thats why Im optimistic about him. I think he just got a little full of himself, hopefully this has humbled him and he will be fine.

  23. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    Bonds will be a Yankee if we slip up because of offense in the BO-Sucks series.

  24. Brent (Yankees Need a Pick-Me-Up) July 25th, 2008 at 11:42 am

    No need for a C. Molina’s solid on D.
    No blue chippers for a short-term lefty bullpen arm.
    No Bonds. No freakin’ way. Just … no.
    No Santana contract or big extension for Washburn. Just Igawa.
    No word on any Tiexiera talks?

    Molina is solid on D, but has little offense.

    No Bonds? Who, then?

    No blue-chippers for lefty bullpen? I’ll give you that one. I agree. But if you don’t sign Bonds and STILL want outfield help, that’s where the bluechippers are going to go.

    Why even bring up Santana’s contract when talking about Washburn? That’s obviously not going to happen.

    Why do you need Teixeira now? You already have a logjam at first with Giambi, Betemit, Sexson, Posada (if he comes back). You really want to get rid of A-type talent for a half-season rental that we don’t even have a place for?

  25. Matt July 25th, 2008 at 11:44 am

    The recent Washburn reports, including Jon Heyman’s latest, continue to say Seattle wants Melky AND Gardner. I haven’t seen any that say Melky OR Gardner. Do they seriously want both? Maybe, maybe it makes sense to trade one of them, but certainly not both. We need the other to play centerfield. And why does Seattle want both? So one can play when they trade Raul Ibanez?

  26. tim boat July 25th, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Yanks don’t have a glaring need for a lefty so no sense in overpaying for a rental. Not like Myers could ever get Ortiz out when he was here so that goes to show its worthless having a lefty just to have one.

    Eh, not sure if Washburn is worth being stuck with for a year but then again he can always be stashed in the pen next year and viola – there’s your lefty

    What Cashman should be doing is trading from his hoard of minor league pitching prospects for some young up and coming positional prospects.

  27. Bob(The Original) July 25th, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Give up a “better prospect” for him? He’s not even healthy?

    A source told FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal that the Yankees have expressed “real interest” in Gerald Laird.

    The source goes on to say that the Yankees aren’t looking at Miguel Olivo. Paul Lo Duca and Rod Barajas were also believed to be on their list. Laird is clearly the best player in the group, and since he’s not a free agent until after 2010, the Yankees would likely have to give up one of their better prospects (Jose Tabata? Dan McCutchen?) and a lesser guy to get him.

  28. G13 July 25th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    IPK kills me cause he’ll do great in AAA and then come up to the big show and stink it up. I was one of the early season believers and still wanna see him do well but would prefer the yanks go out and get washburn for the rotation. I would in no way give up gardner or melky as they fill important positions for our team down the stretch. Melky is our best outfielder and you cant deny gardners speed on the basepaths. our team finally looks alive our there and in now way do i want to see us give up 2 valuable assets for an issue that is not huge and could prob not be fixed from somewhere within….ipk? aceves? giese? hughes/wang?

  29. V July 25th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Rasner is better than Washburn.

  30. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 11:48 am

    Quin Gray, is good.

  31. JD(Duncan's arm bashes still hurt) July 25th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    Why Tex? You DFA Sexson because he costs nothing anyway. Hopefully Tex gets extended meaning you ditch Giambi at years end. Jorge goes under the knife this year and comes back as back-up 1b/dh next year until he can catch again. Betimit rides the bench. That’s why Tex.

  32. randy l July 25th, 2008 at 11:54 am

    spending 15 million on washburn sure makes me look stupid for saying the yankees should have signed livan in the winter.

    but why buy batteries before the hurricane comes. it’s more fun paying more when everyone else rushes to the store to get them.

  33. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 11:54 am

    if Kennedy’s performance last night, raised his stock, then move him in a trade, for the right player:

    Bradley
    Salty
    Bay?
    Texeria

    It does not have to be a 1 for 1. A combination of Kennedy, and other players (not named – Hughes/Jackson/Melancon/Montero) should bring back a player of value who can help us.

  34. Don Vito A. Bellamo July 25th, 2008 at 11:57 am

    V
    July 25th, 2008 at 11:46 am
    Rasner is better than Washburn.
    .
    and you think that because ????
    .
    Rasner is NOT better than Washburn…do you REALLY need to see the numbers ???
    .
    :-(

  35. Buzz July 25th, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Manny is out of the lineup today :)

  36. B.Stanley July 25th, 2008 at 11:58 am

    Didn’t Kennedy basically throw a no hitter last night? I understand wanting ot make a deal before the deadline becaues Kennedy might not work out (again) but I think even if we land Washburn, Kennedy should have first crack at filling the #4 or 5 spot.

  37. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 11:59 am

    seattle can sit on Washbun this season, and next.

    gardner and melky for washburn? LOL.

  38. Tom Gaffney July 25th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    Good article, Pete. Re: the catcher situation, though, why are you so sure about the Yanks not going after a backstop? Do you really think that Cash and Joe are satisfied with Moeller as their backup catcher? What happens if Molina gets nicked up? They definitely need an insurance policy/backup/someone to split time with Molina, no? Ross for Cincy is a FA next year and is sitting for a team out of the race. He should be cheap. He’s a patient guy w/ a good OBP which is what Cash likes.

    I would do the deal for Igawa. I’m not crazy about picking up the second year, but we can always trade him next year or bullpen him if necessary. No way I’d include Melky, tjo. I think that many people forget that he’s only 23. He was actually 10% better than an average replacement player (VORP) last year. He project to be a 20% guy by 2011. I’m frustrated by his season, too, but he’s not someone you just give away.

  39. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    “spending 15 million on washburn sure makes me look stupid for saying the yankees should have signed livan in the winter.”

    Hey, how have each of them been doing the last two months?

  40. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Also, Randy…which part of “the Yankees will only take him if there’s salary relief” did you not pick up on?

  41. G13 July 25th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    is manny definitely out of the lineup? isnt it a little earlier to send that signal out of boston? moose must be pissed he doesnt get a shot at redemption against boston

  42. Yanksrule57 July 25th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    B. Stanley,

    I agree why pay all that money when you have the potential answer in your own organization.

    I think the Washburn stuff is just smoke. As I said yesterday he is not a significant upgrade over what they have now.

  43. JD(Duncan's arm bashes still hurt) July 25th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    The Yankees would rather pay more for Washburn than give up prospects IMO. Not sure why they would give up Melky for salary relief. That has not been the Yankee way before and I don’t think it will be now. That rumor seems bogus.

  44. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    tony massarotti/boston herald:

    “Beckett, Wakefield, and Lester are boston’s 3 best pitchers”

    he forgetting someone?

  45. G13 July 25th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    if we could get rid of igawa for washburn i would name my first child cashman

  46. JD(Duncan's arm bashes still hurt) July 25th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    Pete brought up Igawa’s name. Sherman is reporting that rumor untrue. Seattle seems to want more and I don’t blame them but Melky and Gardner for Washburn should be a no deal.

  47. Buzz July 25th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    “moose must be pissed he doesnt get a shot at redemption against boston”

    he did last time 6 inning no runs

  48. miggs July 25th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    This “1st and 10″ show on ESPN is unbearable with that idiot Skip Bayless on here.

    If this guy can be on TV and talk nonsense about sports, why can’t I? Seriously, this guy is making no sense.

  49. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    “he forgetting someone?”

    Nope. Matsuzaka, despite his low ERA, is actually not really pitching that well. He walks a mindblowing number of guys. His K rate has dropped from last year as well. He’s constantly walking a tightrope, regularly throws a zillion pitches to get through 6 innings, and everyone’s waiting for the other shoe to drop.

  50. Y's Guy July 25th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    there’s either salary relief or they take igawa, either way its not going to cost them $15M to get washburn.

    someone mentioned above that heyman’s column this am says melky and gardner but he failed to note that heyman said that’s a non-starter for the yankees.

    i say igawa and gardner for wasburn
    or garder for washburn and you give us at least half his remaing salary.

  51. JoeyA (Girardi instead of Moeller) July 25th, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    Miggs-
    He is used solely because nobody else is willing to say the crap that comes out of his mouth. he just stirs the pot. don’t take anything he says seriously.

  52. swings & misses July 25th, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    Team Rasner. :P

    He’s given up 3 ER or fewer in 9 of 13 starts. I don’t think he or Ponson have pitched their way out of the rotation as of yet.

  53. Rodney July 25th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    Johny Estrada was DFA’d yeterday by the Nationals.

    He could be a decent pickup for NY.

    Gardner AND Cabrera for Washburn?? No Thanks…

    Washburn should be a salary dump for the M’s. Igawa and 2nd tier prospect SHOULD be enough for him.

  54. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    If I were Cashman:

    I would sign Bonds, let him play at AAA, 2 games if he’s his old self bring him up. I wouldn’t trade anyone.

    Go after FA in the off season.

    Teams want to much for there so-so players we don’t need them. Sign Bonds and see what happens.

  55. randy l July 25th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    “Also, Randy…which part of “the Yankees will only take him if there’s salary relief” did you not pick up on?”

    whozat-

    which part of paying more because of poor planning did you not pick up on?

    “Nope. Matsuzaka, despite his low ERA, is actually not really pitching that well”

    nope and all those wins are bogus stats too.

    lets see, wins and era don’t matter.
    that’s right from sabermetric 101.
    the problem is that they play the game on the field where wins matter.

  56. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    I say forget Washed up, sign Bonds, use the kids.

  57. Brent (Yankees Need a Pick-Me-Up) July 25th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Why Tex? You DFA Sexson because he costs nothing anyway. Hopefully Tex gets extended meaning you ditch Giambi at years end. Jorge goes under the knife this year and comes back as back-up 1b/dh next year until he can catch again. Betimit rides the bench. That’s why Tex.

    You want to trade a ton of young prospects (most notably A-level prospects) for a guy who’s a free agent in 4 months? On top of that you want to forcefully guarantee Giambi won’t return next year (why not let this whole thing play out?), then claim that Posada will 100% be taking surgery even though he says he’s going to try and play through the injury? I don’t mind Betemit riding the pine, but you want to make all these changes for someone the Yankees don’t need right now? The offense (when they produce) is amazing. Besides being light off the bench, there’s no need for a blockbuster trade for a guy we have an amazing chance of signing in the off-season anyway.

  58. Bryan (Yankees fan) July 25th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    No team will take Kennedy as a centerpiece of any deal for someone like Texiera

    His trade value is low until he comes back and performs at the Major League level

    Washburn is way better than Rasner

    He may not be $9 million dollars better but he is better than Rasner

  59. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Signing Bonds we have nothing to lose.

    Going after average talent we may give up to much, no one knows which prospect will be a stud.

    We definately do not need anymore Seattle personnel, except Ichiro but that’s not gonna happen.

  60. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    J E T S

    interested in Favre. Have received permission from GB to talk to him.

    per Chris Mortenson

    !!!!!!

  61. CK in LA July 25th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    “If he wants to waive his no-trade rights, great. But they’re not going to extend him or pay him off to do that.”

    Tell him he can still get peanuts at Yankee Stadium!!

  62. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    If your gonna trade what you think are “blue chip” prospects you need to land someone like a Beckett, just like Theo did with Ramirez.

    Not these rag a tag arms.

    I say blue chips leave land someone of importance.

  63. DLev July 25th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    I love that people say worse comes to worse after they get Washburn, they can trade him next year. For what? If no one wants him in the middle of a pennant race, no one is going to want him next year either. They’ll be stuck with him. I really don’t see the point of this one, even if it’s just for Igawa. At least Igawa is stuck at AAA and you don’t have to pitch him.

    On second thought, maybe the could get Igawa back next year. That’d make everyone here happy.

  64. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 25th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    Colorado and Pittsburgh are going to see the lefty market bottom out from under them if they keep the asking price so high.

  65. Dave42 July 25th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    My guess is that everyone will try and get fuentes and marte, but then colorado and pitt will send them to the red sox for c-level prospects a la gagne.

  66. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    They didn’t trade any of these prospect for CC, why would all of the sudden they let them go for Washed up.

    I don’t think you will see any real move unless we struggle in this series.

    I say we win 2 out 3..just watch..If we get close the trade market will be on fire next week for TB and B..

  67. William Buckner July 25th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    “lets see, wins and era don’t matter.
    that’s right from sabermetric 101.
    the problem is that they play the game on the field where wins matter.”

    That much is true, but his WHIP is high and his inn/start are low. The numbers behind the numbers suggest this won’t hold up and he hurts their pen.

    From an anecdotal point of view, he seems to me that he strongly benefits from lineups that don’t walk counts (M’s).

  68. William Buckner July 25th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    or work counts, either way…

  69. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut July 25th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    Dicey K, gotta love it.

  70. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    I’m sorry I’m not a Bonds lover, but it would be the better baseball move to sign him and send him to AAA, to see what he has.

    You give up nothing and keep him away from you competition.

  71. Cody July 25th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    BREAKING NEWS: The Yankees sign Bret Favre to a one-year, $50 million dollar deal.

  72. Fleas - give me the ball Spike July 25th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    I had a strange dream last night, there was someone new CF, but he had a mask on, but man was he an improvement. Then I awoke.

    Stranger things have happened, like Michael Jordan playing MLB.

  73. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    Just wondering didn’t we have Canseco on one of our Championship teams?

    Yes……..

  74. ANSKY July 25th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    Brent

    If you want OF help, Bonds is not your man. He’s 44 years old and no longer the speed demon he was in the heart of his career.

    With Tiexiera, you get the solid middle-of-the-order switch hitter and the 1B solved all in one.

    If you were to get Bonds, Sexson & Giambi are already big slow DH types. What would you do with them if you get Bonds? Probably get rid of them somehow, correct? Or would you go with 3 big DH types only one of which (Sexson) might be useful at 1B although I don’t know much about his D.

    Well if you get Tiexiera, you’d get rid of them too. But replace them with someone who can field AND hit, not for someone old & slow but with a big list of individual accomplishments left over from when he used to be a ballplayer.

    Keep one of the existing big slow DH’s? Sure what the heck … one extra bat off the bench if there’s no more useful player to be had. But get what you really need first.

  75. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    Just wondering didn’t we have Strawberry, Gooden, Clemens on one of our Championship teams?

    Yes……..

  76. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut July 25th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    I wonder what kind of pitches Favre throws. Sinkers? Sliders? or mainly just Fastballs?

  77. G13 July 25th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    bonds? not happening. why do we need another dh that comes with so much baggage. a baseball cap probably cant fit around his egghead

  78. Y's Guy July 25th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    AND…HE’S….HE’S IN THE STADIUM…..BRET FARVREVEREERVVE IS IN THE OWNERS BOOTH!!!OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS!!!!!

  79. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    All the people every is saying get, haven’t tried to perform in NY, RJ struggled in NY.

    So Bay, Washed up, Holliday, Tex..you want to actually trade some good prospects for them why?

  80. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    Vasquez struggled in NY.

    Bay could be another Tartabull if he came to NY.

  81. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 25th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    Hahaha Brett Farve probably swings a better bat than some people…can he play in the outfield?

  82. Christine July 25th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    I want to believe that it could never happen in a million years, but if the Yankees get desperate and bring Bonds to New York, I will boycott the rest of the season and for as long as he is with the team.

    I just can’t see them taking on that nighmare that is Bonds.

  83. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    Keep the Kids, they understand the system.

    Bonds is the least expensive, best scenario for us.

  84. Phil July 25th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    Yanks aren’t gonna bring in an indicted player.

  85. Blargh July 25th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Favre for Cy Young!

  86. Jorge Steinbrenner July 25th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    “Just wondering didn’t we have Canseco on one of our Championship teams?

    Yes……..”

    Do you understand why he was on the team to begin with?

  87. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Christine,

    A nightmare was watching them in the early 70′s and the 80′s that was a nightmare, but they will always be my Team. good luck with your boycott, you can watch the Mets.

  88. RayBlay` July 25th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Why the heck would you give up two of your outfielders and have only one non-part-time OFer left for a crappy starter?!?!?

  89. Emma July 25th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Brett Farve could be of use to tackle Youkillus in case a situation arises…I’m not sure if QB’s know how to tackle but football players do.

  90. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Jorge Steinbrenner:

    Don’t start making excuses now.

    Doesn’t matter he was there.

  91. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut July 25th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    Emma, I’d pay extra to see that.

  92. Yanks July 25th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Estrada is a no brainer for backup catcher

    used to be a great average hitter until injuries of late…worth a shot and costs little to nothing for his services

  93. E-Man July 25th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    “You give up nothing and keep him away from you competition.”

    That’s the great thing. The competition doesn’t even want him.

    If they ever signed the face of steroids.. I think I’d have to root for Tampa Bay or the Mets or someone else.

  94. William Buckner July 25th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Just playing devils advocate, but bonds is accused of using PED’s. We have a guy now convicted of fighting a judge. Personally I don’t care about either, I’m interested in performance and to a lesser extent, clubhouse impact, but if we have a problem with bonds shouldn’t we with gimabi and petette. they are no better.

  95. G. Love July 25th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    I can’t believe Gardner and Cabrera for Washburn is even being considered by the Yankee front office.

    This is the same team that didn’t want to part with Melky in the Johan package because it would leave them w/o a CF and now we’re supposed to believe they are considering sending all their CF for a 4/5 starter?

    It’s B.S.

    I would like us to get Washburn, but only if we’re shedding Igawa in the deal.

    If we have to trade one of the young OF in the majors for Washburn I would back off. If we had to trade both of them, I would hang up the phone.

    Seattle clearly doesn’t want to keep Washburn and pay him. That’s the only reason he’s on our radar as we don’t make equal talent trades here in NY usually. We take your financial problem off your hand and you take our flotsam and jetsam and Igawa.

  96. Y's Guy July 25th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    farve should know how to takle: 288 INT’s!

  97. William Buckner July 25th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Forgot – also lying to federal investigators.

  98. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    What is the problem with Bonds? The Yankees have had more than their share of degenerates on the team. They’ve had known cocaine users, 2 known steroid users, and known alcoholics who drive drunk. What is the problem that people have with Bonds? I just don’t get it.

    They also had an owner who was suspended for having his own player spied upon.

    This is not the Mormon Yankees. It’s the New York Yankees. It’s not exactly the model franchise for morality.

    Please, somebody give me a logical explanation on why Bonds would be so bad for the team.

  99. MoBoy(aka McLovin) July 25th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Timothy Clougher:

    Randy Johnson struggled but he did win 34 games.If the Yankees were hitting we wouldn’t need pitching.THat why WAng wins 19 games two years in a row.He’s great but on a crappy team he wouldn’t win that many games.

  100. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    William Buckner:

    Thanks William that is my point, Giambi, Pettite, Canseco..the list is endless..why all of the sudden the stance on Bonds? He is a good baseball player, there are many faces of the Roid Era Maguire, Sosa, Bonds, Palmero, Giambi, Pettite, Clemens….

  101. Y's Guy July 25th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    g.love

    from jon heyman this am:

    “Seattle is asking now for Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner, a non-starter for the Yankees.

    doesnt sound like it’s being considered to me.

  102. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    raymagnetic:

    I agree totally don’t forget who got it started the Womanizer, while married “Babe”.

    Now the Yanks have some Moral code……..please.

  103. jennifer July 25th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Cash should tell Seattle it is Kei Igawa or forget it. We are doing you a favor by taking your bloated contract. Say heck no to giving up both Melky and Brett. Um who would play center?

    To Jarrod, no bonus for waving no trade. Being in contension is enough.

  104. gayle July 25th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Timothy-

    There is one difference between all of the players you mention and Bonds.Bonds is under federal indictment.

    I personally am not claiming that the Yankees have ever shyed away from players that might have some personal issues and they are not perfect people however Giambi was already signed when he had to appear in front of the grand jury and from all accounts he told the truth elsewise he would be under indictment as well.

    it is not the use of drugs that is the issue here.

  105. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut July 25th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    …Tejada…

  106. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    Bonds: positive he’s friends with, Jeter, A-rod.

    what better hitter for the young guys to watch.

  107. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    “Cash should tell Seattle it is Kei Igawa or forget it. We are doing you a favor by taking your bloated contract.”

    the problem is that they apparently arent the only team willing to take on the contract. so now, the mariners have a little room to negotiate a bit.

  108. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Gayle:

    He is still innocent till his day in court.

  109. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut July 25th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Martha Stewart was indicted and convicted. I guess that leaves her out of the conversation for helping the Yankees as well.

  110. saucY July 25th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    lolololololololololololololololololololol

  111. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    “There is one difference between all of the players you mention and Bonds.Bonds is under federal indictment.”

    Who cares? Why does it even matter? Until he’s been found guilty he’s innocent.

  112. ANSKY July 25th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Cabrera & Gardner? Throw Igawa in for free.

  113. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Folks the lying part hasn’t been proven yet.

    That’s why he has a court date.

    Wouldn’t you want the benefit of being innocent till proven guilty, please afford him the same courtesy.

  114. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut July 25th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    If someone else wants Washburn, let them have him. I just don’t see why the only moves the Yankees are making are picking from the refuse of other teams. How exactly does that make the team better, when all they are getting are those players that losing teams are throwing away or wanting to dump?

    Its not like Washburn has a great record. Leave Rasner in the rotation at that point, he won’t do worse than Washburn and it saves some big bucks.

  115. Y's Guy July 25th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    totally agree about the yankees not being the mormon yankees. we’ve had just about every kind of scoundrel on this team and won. and we’ve had players who couldnt get along with the press, no problem there either.

    but bonds is a lousy teammate. guys who play with him hate him, he causes dissension in the clubhouse. THATS why i dont want him on this team.

  116. S.o.S.27 July 25th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Hell give them Igawa and Gardner. Have them eat some of Washburns contract. Throw in Britton just so Britton can finally see the majors. Done deal. Mr. Podsednic jr. is a 4 th outfielder at best.

  117. Jorge Steinbrenner July 25th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    “Why the heck would you give up two of your outfielders and have only one non-part-time OFer left for a crappy starter?!?!?”

    that Justin Christian is a handsome dude, i guess.

  118. Patrick â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Washburn would be a good pickup only if the Yankees don’t have to pay much for him. Melky and Gardner? No thanks.

    I’m sure Washburn would upgrade the team but by how much? What added benefit will he be over Ponson and Rasner? Probably a little but would it be worth giving up Gardner and Melky. HEELLLL no

  119. gayle July 25th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    yes he is innocent until proven guilty but there is a lot that goes on when you are under indictment. That kind of circus and distraction this team doesnt need there are already enough. Lets say they sign him and come September he has to leave the team for 3 days for depositions or he has to make an appearance in San Francisco.

    When the feds are after you there is not a lot of control you have that is what I am talking about.

  120. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Whether the Yanks act upon Bonds or not, as a US citizen our constitution says innocent till proven guilty.

    Not proven by tabloid readings.

  121. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    “I just don’t see why the only moves the Yankees are making are picking from the refuse of other teams.”

    because it doesnt cost Cashman any high level prospects.

  122. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    “but bonds is a lousy teammate. guys who play with him hate him, he causes dissension in the clubhouse. THATS why i dont want him on this team.”

    For some reason I don’t recall anyone not liking him when he was hitting 70 HR’s and breaking the single season HR record. He’s friends with Jeter and A-Rod that’s really all that matters.

    All that lousy teammate talk is straight nonsense and it’s a non-sensical reason for not wanting him on the team. San Francisco is a horrible team and they only had Bonds to focus on. He wouldn’t be the sole focal point in NY.

    Ponson is also supposed to be a horrible teammate yet he’s been in NY TWICE !

  123. Jorge Steinbrenner July 25th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    “Jorge Steinbrenner:

    Don’t start making excuses now.

    Doesn’t matter he was there.”

    We blocked a waiver deal and wound up being stuck with him. How is this making an excuse? Have you even seen me comment on the moral fiber of Barry Bonds on here?

    I don’t want him because I don’t think he’s going to contribute a lick to our team, not because of the supposed moral ambiguities of PEDs he may or may not have taken. I could care less about that.

  124. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    gayle:

    No depositions, his court date is not until Spring.

    You never know he may want to the opportunity (a second chance if you will) to change his image..NY is the place to do that. That why I love NY so much..

  125. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    “I don’t want him because I don’t think he’s going to contribute a lick to our team, not because of the supposed moral ambiguities of PEDs he may or may not have taken. I could care less about that.”

    He was one of the most productive hitters in all of MLB last year. How could he not help?

  126. josh July 25th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    we got 10 games with the angels.. thats our season right there

  127. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    Jorge Steinbrenner:

    When we blocked the waiver deal, we didn’t have any idea of the ramifications? :) thank you

  128. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    timothy, you seem like a good guy and all, but people have already made up their mind on the Bonds debate. by coming in here and spouting off about the hypocrisy of the yankee organization, and throwing out your support of bonds, you arent going to change anyone’s mind, and prob really just annoy people after a while.

  129. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 25th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    Our season isn’t made in the games we play with the Angels.

    Our season is the games we have left with Boston and Tampa.

  130. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    Jorge Steinbrenner:

    Jorge you just made my point, but I do respect how you feel about Bonds.

  131. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    “we got 10 games with the angels.. thats our season right there”

    No it isn’t.

  132. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut July 25th, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    TurnTwo, if you take garbage, you get garbage. Fine, if you want to keep all your prospects then you won’t get any good deals done and your team is stagnant.

    The Yankees won’t be able to use every piece they have in the minors now. A year from now some will be lost anyway.

    Unless you think Sexson, “who tears up lefty pitchers” has been doing a great job. And that Ponson should be moved UP in the rotation because of how effective he is.

    I get plugging holes, but don’t take on crap because you want to hold on to some unproven players then bemoan not making the post season.

  133. Mike July 25th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    With the whole corner OF problem, I hear Bernie Williams is looking for a job

  134. nyyfaninlaaland July 25th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    Mr Buckner –

    a 1.36 WHIP isn’t overly high. Matsuzaka’s BB rate is horrible, but his hit rate is quite low. Of course it’s harder to hit a guy that doesn’t throw strikes.

    I’m not one to give all credit for wins to a starter – run support is a very telling stat there – and constantly going 6 or less isn’t good. So I can’t agree with Randy on that. But his ERA is quite good, and that says something. What’s strange is the large reduction in his HR rate, despite being a flyball pitcher. Must be getting a lot more popups. I think he might try to be too fine, playing around the edges of the zone instead of challenging hitters more. Or maybe he isn’t confident in his stuff. I’d kind of like to hear Randy’s comments on that.

  135. Remember Paul Gibson? July 25th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    Maybe Carl Pavano can pitch?

    But wouldn’t it be even more awesome to see him catch?!?! Getting run over time after time, again and again! Going airborne into the backstop when big guys bomb into him trying to score on close plays. Entertainment and torture, together at last!

  136. just to set the record straight... July 25th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    from wiki:

    “Although the Constitution of the United States does not cite it explicitly, presumption of innocence is widely held to follow from the 5th, 6th and 14th amendments. See also Coffin v. United States

  137. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    “TurnTwo, if you take garbage, you get garbage. Fine, if you want to keep all your prospects then you won’t get any good deals done and your team is stagnant.”

    look, i dont disagree with you, i’m just explaining why the Yankees do it. dont shoot the messenger.

  138. saucY July 25th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    one thing i’m looking forward to seeing tonight is the AL east standings on the fenway scoreboard. the rays and soxs are tied for first, with the rays technically ahead due to percentage. i think the redxos will have their team listed as being in first, however. they’ve done it before…

  139. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    “then bemoan not making the post season.”

    I don’t think Cashman plans to.

  140. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    TurnTwo:

    I respect how you feel, but I signed up for this Blog just like you. If you want me voted out then, that is your right.

    By the way the country has free speech as well, so if I annoy you don’t read it.

    I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind this is a baseball blog, I feel as a Yankee fan, Bonds would be the best move in not selling the “Farm”

    Just don’t like the double standard about the “Yankee Image”

  141. JR Yankees July 25th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    The difference between Bonds and the likes of Giambi, Clemens, Pettitte, Conseco is simple…

    Bonds has been indicted for lieing under oath to the courts about using steroids. He is now known and labeled as a steroid user!

    The other guys using PED’s and/or steroids were not known about at the time of their respective signings/trades. Does that make it better? No, but…

    …to knowingly sign a steroid user would be a disprace to the Yankee franchise and everything they have accomplished. Not to mention the attitude he brings with him. He is a clubhouse cancer who is a selfish pig.

  142. nyyfaninlaaland July 25th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    Fleas – y
    ou dreamed Rip Hamilton was palying CF for the Yankees? That is weird.

  143. Fran July 25th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    “we got 10 games with the angels.. thats our season right there”

    Mike Francesca was just saying that because of the games left with the Angels, the Yanks will win the WC, not the division and Boston will win the AL East.

  144. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    “But his ERA is quite good, and that says something.”

    When your ERA disagrees with your peripherals by THAT much, it means you’re probably getting very lucky. Like Ponson, for example. His WHIP is HORRENDOUS, but his ERA is solid. Matsuzaka’s WHIP is middling (especially his walks), but his ERA is sparkling. His K rate has also decreased from last season. If nothing changes, his ERA is likely to be middling from here on out.

  145. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    “to knowingly sign a steroid user would be a disprace to the Yankee franchise and everything they have accomplished.”

    The Sox traded for Gagne. The Mitchell report contains documented evidence that Theo and his talent evaluators KNEW that Gagne had used PEDs in the past.

    Did that disgrace their franchise?

  146. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    “to knowingly sign a steroid user would be a disprace to the Yankee franchise and everything they have accomplished.”

    But to sign a guy who knowingly drives drunk is better? That’s just idiotic to me. Driving drunk kills other people, steroid usage only hurts the user.

  147. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    “Mike Francesca was just saying”

    And that wasn’t reason enough to stop listening?

  148. Bryan (Yankees fan) July 25th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    I just saw Jose Molina in the Prudential Center Mall in Boston

    One of my co-workers saw Mariano Rivera but I missed him

    Also Tim McCarver is having a book signing at the Barnes and Noble…. there was one person there it was kind of funny

  149. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    Somebody:

    Instead of trading for Washed-up, why not bring up a different youngster not named Kennedy or Hughes and go with that?

    Why not give Jackson a shot now?

  150. Gitmo July 25th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    There may be one other reason why the Yankees won’t sign Bonds aside from him being under federal indictment, being 44 years old, not having played in a year and a half, creating a circus atmosphere, his link to PED’s, and being an all around a-hole…

    He jerked the Yankees around the last time he became a free agent, and signed with the Giants.

    Just food for thought.

  151. Tom July 25th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    While I don’t know if Bonds can help or not, I think that we forget we have had Strawberry and Gooden on this team. They were the “bad boys” of baseball in the late nineties and yet we still took a shot on them. I personally don’t think that we’ll take Bonds(and I don’t know if I could really stomach it either). But the Yanks will make the best moves they think are possible to help this team, and if that means signing the *, then so they will do it.

  152. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    fancesca: very funny man.

    “Joba is not the yankees ace. He is 2-3. He is only 2-3. The ace of the yankees is Pettitte.

  153. CB July 25th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    “Who cares? Why does it even matter? Until he’s been found guilty he’s innocent.”

    If Bonds were to play for the yankees and I was his lawyer I would 100% subpoena at least Jeter, ARod and Mariano to testify at his trial.

    I’d put them on the stand and then ask them to testify as to whether they saw Bonds ever use any PED’s or whether they had ever seen Bonds use PEDs or whether he’d discussed using them with them while he was their teammates.

    The yankees have some of the most visible, well known people in the country playing for him. If you could shoe horn Jeter into being a de facto character witness for your defense you’d do it.

    And then the prosecution is going to try to hammer Jeter and ARod regarding their character to undermine their testimony. For instance, if ARod has to testify the prosecution could well want to start asking him questions about whether or not he’s used PED’s and then they’ll start asking him about whether or not he’s seen other players on the Yankees use PEDs and then they are going to start asking him about his personal life to establish whether he has ever demonstrated any pattern of not being honest or trustworthy, say cheating on his wife.

    Doesn’t matter whether or not they were teammates for long or whether they were teammates in 2008 instead of 1998. Getting Derrick Jeter up on the stands and having him say no I’ve never seen Barry use PED’s is only going to help bonds. Same for ARod and Mariano.

    Then if I were his lawyer I would subpeona Hank and Hal Steinbrenner, Brian Cashman and Randy Levine and ask them the same questions – only more pointedly. Why would you ever hire this man at the age of 44? Did you believe he was using PED’s now or in the past? Do you have any first hand knowledge of this? If you had any beliefs that his performance was altered by PED’s why would you hire him to play at such an advanced age?

    This is a federal indictment. He is going to go to federal court. I’m not sure if people are fully weighing the massive implications this would have on the yankees as an organization and a business. Having any kind of professional relationship with Bonds would open them up to a black box of liabilities.

    The Feds hardly ever lose when they take a case to trial. The conviction rate is astronomical. If Bonds goes to trial – and it looks like he’ll fight this all the way to court – he and his lawyers will use whatever legal strategy required to get him off. Having professional baseball players – men considered role models in society (rightly or wrongly) testifying on his behalf is going to be something they will do.

    Do you seriously think the yankees haven’t discussed Bonds with their own lawyers? Could that have something to do with it?

    This has nothing to do with PED’s or not or innocent until presumed guilty. This has to do with a business that has to very carefully weight the tremendous risks in potential liability and public embarrassment that may occur in relation to their voluntary employment of someone indicted on serous federal charges.

    They sign bonds – they open themselves up to a tremendous amount of potential liability – legal, public relations and otherwise.

  154. JR Yankees July 25th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Barry Bonds is still available…why? Nobody wants him and his antics.

    There are plenty of teams out there trying to remain in contention or are on the edge of being buyers/sellers who are taking a pass on him.

    There is a reason for that and nobody can use the money excuse. He will play for a prorated league minimum salary.

  155. tonyb July 25th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    It is mind boggling how Francesa can consistently be so wrong yet so sure of himself at the same time.

    I think he discounts how bad the Red Sox bullpen is as well. If we can get back to working over those starters and getting them out of the game after 6, we can beat that bullpen.

    Good luck doing that against ours.

  156. tonyb July 25th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    CB: Great Post.

  157. gayle July 25th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    Thank you CB you have stated way better than I have been able to do today exactly what I was saying.

  158. JR Yankees July 25th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    Whozat

    Again, at the time of his trade the Mitchell Report was not out. Nobody knew for sure (except maybe Mitchell whispering in Theo’s ear) at the time.

    If he came out and admitted it (which he did eventually), the Sox still can play the card that they had no idea he was a user.

    Besides, the disgraceful thing about the trade for that franchise was he actually made their team worse. and broke up their bullpen chemistry.

  159. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    CB:

    I agree with you, but baseball wise, he would be the best move.

    PS If Bonds goes down in Spring, there will be many ramifications in Baseball as a whole.

  160. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    “By the way the country has free speech as well, so if I annoy you don’t read it.”

    oh, i couldnt care less. im just making sure you realize people can turn on you real quick here… and generally, an angry board doesnt make for a very fun board to be on for the rest of us.

    and fwiw, if it were 3 weeks ago, id agree, sign Bonds.

    but it doesnt work now.

  161. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    CB,

    Andy Pettitte is the only Yankee that has been subpoenaed in the whole Clemens thing. I understand that wasn’t a federal case but everyone you mentioned could have been subpoenaed to testify in the Clemens thing as well and yet it didn’t happen.

    I highly doubt it would happen if Bonds were to play for the Yankees for 2 months at the end of his career. Bonds is going on trial for something he allegedly did years ago, I don’t see how bringing in witnesses from the Yankees could aid the defense lawyer or the prosecution.

  162. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    “Why not give Jackson a shot now?”

    Steven Jackson?? When was the last time he started a game?

  163. yankee21 July 25th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    Whoever thinks the Yankees would spend more than a second contemplating moving a Melky for Washburn straight up, much less adding in Gardner, I have some land available in ARI, ocean-front, prime real estate, good price etc…

    That would be an absolute joke of an offer and more likely some media-originated rumor.

    The Yankees won’t trade away all their current CF options for a LH SP that offers little if any incremental value over Raz or PONS.

    Now, Igawa + Gardner for Washburn would be tempting but I still don’t do that trade. I just don’t believe Washburn is going to be money and still wouldn’t unload Gardner for a bum like Washburn.

  164. William Buckner July 25th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    Re-Dice K – My point earlier was and is I believe he has not pitched as well as wins and era indicate. I also believe he is a burden to his pen, which doesn’t need to be exploited. He’s been good, but no way as great as was hyped before he came.

    Re Bonds – I think it’s dangerous to paint a guy in a light because he don’t like him when he is no different then guys you do. And personally I don’t like him, but not for PED, for acting joyless when you get paid millions to play a sport I love.

  165. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    josh: I believe we match-up better, vs the angels this year.

    a catcher who can slow down a running game.

    a solid bullpen (at least, for now).

    a manager who may be able to match Scoscia.

  166. E-Man July 25th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    But to sign a guy who knowingly drives drunk is better? That’s just idiotic to me. Driving drunk kills other people, steroid usage only hurts the user.

    I didn’t realize that alcohol enhanced performance on the field.

    You may also want to educate yourself on the negative effects of steroid use. Death can occur if Road Rage and Roid Rage meet.

  167. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    “I don’t see how bringing in witnesses from the Yankees could aid the defense lawyer or the prosecution.”

    Did you not read the whole message? Court cases aren’t about the truth. They are about creating a perception. Just because none of those guys would know ANYTHING about Bonds’ use back in 1998 doesn’t mean that the defense wouldn’t try to call those dudes as character witnesses.

  168. William Buckner July 25th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    Of course this is moot. He’s done, the yankees nor anyone else are signing him. And I do believe there is collusion there.

  169. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    “I didn’t realize that alcohol enhanced performance on the field.

    You may also want to educate yourself on the negative effects of steroid use. Death can occur if Road Rage and Roid Rage meet.”

    Are you really comparing the effects of driving intoxicated with road rage and roid rage?

  170. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    “You may also want to educate yourself on the negative effects of steroid use. Death can occur if Road Rage and Roid Rage meet.”

    Yes. I’m sure that happens nearly as often as drunk driving.

  171. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 25th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    # Bryan (Yankees fan) July 25th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    I just saw Jose Molina in the Prudential Center Mall in Boston

    One of my co-workers saw Mariano Rivera but I missed him

    Also Tim McCarver is having a book signing at the Barnes and Noble…. there was one person there it was kind of funny

    You have utterly no idea how jealous of you I just became.

    Seriously.

    Two of my favorite yankees–Rivera and Molina.

    Like. Seriously, I’m thinking of getting in my car to drive straight up to Boston….uh, yeah. I’m such a fangirl.

  172. Scorpio July 25th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    I hope Girardi moves Cano up the order, it’s not great having Melky bat right after the sizzling Cano.

  173. JR Yankees July 25th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    E-man, great point.

  174. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 25th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    fancesca: very funny man.

    “Joba is not the yankees ace. He is 2-3. He is only 2-3. The ace of the yankees is Pettitte.

    by that logic the ace of the Yankee staff is Mussina.

  175. JR Yankees July 25th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    Maybe not the last sentence but great point otherwise.

  176. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    “Did you not read the whole message? Court cases aren’t about the truth. They are about creating a perception. Just because none of those guys would know ANYTHING about Bonds’ use back in 1998 doesn’t mean that the defense wouldn’t try to call those dudes as character witnesses.”

    Actually I did read the whole message. My point is all of those guys could have been brought in to testify about Clemens and yet none of them were.

    I doubt highly they would be brought in for Bonds.

  177. Someone Else July 25th, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    CB – I agree on the count that Yankees would be witnesses (which I would not like). I disagree on the questions ARod would receive. The witness is not on trial.

  178. randy l July 25th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    “Please, somebody give me a logical explanation on why Bonds would be so bad for the team.”

    raymagnetic-

    i have no problem if he can get in shape quick enough. i know people say he can, but i wonder about that. clemens was not the horse he was expected last year. bonds may have had help last year that he doesn’t dare use this year.

    bonds hasn’t said anything has he? don’t we have to know what he thinks about it?

    “Mike Francesca was just saying”
    And that wasn’t reason enough to stop listening?

    whozat-

    using that logic , why are you reading this comment?
    you surely don’t only listen or read who you agree with.

    fastball right down the middle:

    from your point of view,who’d dumber? me or francesca.

    And that wasn’t reason enough to stop listening?

  179. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    “I doubt highly they would be brought in for Bonds.”

    Bonds is facing criminal charges. Clemens is involved in a civil suit. Bonds’ lawyers need to create a reasonable doubt to keep him out of jail. It’s a whole different ballgame.

  180. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    TurnTwo:

    Thanks, no hard feelings here.

    I just want what everybody else in here wants. I like to see them win, Jeter, Pettite, Mo aren’t getting any younger.

    All the trades talked about, don’t help them out.

    I would rather stand pat, and not make a move.

    I truely think we have enough right now to win the division.

  181. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    “The witness is not on trial.”

    But they can still try to attack his credibility.

    “from your point of view,who’d dumber? me or francesca.”

    Francesa. At least your points of view are internally consistent with one another, and you’re not willfully uninformed.

  182. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    The only bat, that I know could produce, I won’t say his name again. you know…

  183. randy l July 25th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    “who’s dumber?” lol

  184. Bryan (Yankees fan) July 25th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    Rebecca Molina is pretty big in person

    I also search and searched for Rivera but I couldn’t find

    I was very upset

  185. JR Yankees July 25th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Absolutely we have enough to to win the division. Our offense needs to stay awake and Cano is doing a great job extending the lineup.

    Melky needs to get a little better at the plate and start driving some balls into the gaps.

    If the pitching can keep up it’s great work and the offense stays on this course of the past week, we will all be very happy in October.

  186. nyyfaninlaaland July 25th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    JR – Labeled, not known. An indictment is suspicion of a crime, not proof of it. Not saying Bonds is innocent, but he isn’t guilty either.

    Look this is all a big to do because most people just don’t like Barry. And he hasn’t gone at all out of his way to change that. I suspect he has done steroids – but that doesn’t explain his success. Frankly the impact of steroids is overrated. Good players that take them do well. Bad players that take take them don’t. It’s not a thing ideally suited to increase performance in baseball. Giambi didn’t suddenly start hitting 60 HR’s – Bonds performance is largely the result of his own skill and hard work. Steroids have provided perhaps a marginal improvement to those who took them. And those who did likely did so in tandem with increased workouts that may have helped even more. He’s been drug tested for the last few years, hasn’t failed, and he was still putting up huge OPS numbers.

    You should check out this site for some balance on this issue:

    http://www.steroids-and-baseball.com

    That said, steroid use was and is illegal if not prescribed for specific medical conditions. So their use otherwise is a crime. Personally I like Barry Bonds more than the average joe from what I’ve seen. I recognize that he’s more than a bit spoiled and petulant. But anybody who’s spent many of his Christmases with Robin Williams has to either have a sense of humor or something positive about his personality. Or has drug or drinking problems.

    Let’s remember people – here in the US it’s still innocent until proven guilty. Indictment is not conviction, and high profile indictments have fallen more than once – lawyers want to make splashes sometimes too. But they also don’t want to bring weak cases.

    If you don’t want him on the Yanks, that’s your prerogative. I think he’d still be very useful offensively. Don’t know if all the hubbub would be worth it though. I do find it strange that the level of animosity towards him is so much higher than that directed at Mark McGwire. But Barry’s never been the warm and fuzzy type.

  187. JoeyA (Girardi instead of Moeller) July 25th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Someone else-
    a witness’s credibility is ALWAYS on trial. take it from a guy that has passed the bar. witnesses are half the reason cases r lost, cause their credibility goes to shreds whenthe past is brought up.

  188. Someone Else July 25th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    ““But his ERA is quite good, and that says something.”

    When your ERA disagrees with your peripherals by THAT much, it means you’re probably getting very lucky. Like Ponson, for example. His WHIP is HORRENDOUS, but his ERA is solid. Matsuzaka’s WHIP is middling (especially his walks), but his ERA is sparkling. His K rate has also decreased from last season. If nothing changes, his ERA is likely to be middling from here on out.”

    I disagree. There’s ONE THING Ponson and Matsuzaka have in common, that prevents runs from scoring, despite a lot of baserunners, and unspectacular K rates.

    Matsuzaka: HR/9: 0.47; Opponent’s ISO: 0.103
    Ponson: HR/9: 0.69; Opponent’s ISO: 0.132

    In addition, Ponson has this going for him: GO/AO: 1.93

    Those are all extraordinary numbers. Matsuzaka walks a lot, but doesn’t give up a lot of hits, and what hits he does give up, aren’t hit hard.

    Ponson gives up a lot of groundballs. Some are hits, some are outs.

    Both allow a lot of baserunners, but there’s a clear reason why those baserunners have difficulty scoring.

  189. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    “I just want what everybody else in here wants. I like to see them win, Jeter, Pettite, Mo aren’t getting any younger.”

    sometimes, i actually wonder if fans here on the board actually want the yankees to win more than see the yankees prospects develop and play.

  190. Tom July 25th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    CB:
    I think that you make a goog point, but I think you are going a bit too far with “if you were his lawyer” stuff. Remember his lawyer would only want people who are going to testify to help Bonds. Being his teammate for only two months would not be a strong enough sample to help prove that Barry is not a lier. All it would do is prove that he is not stupid enough to use PEDs while he has been indicted. How would that, in the mind a a jury, prove that he didn’t take steroids 5-10 years ago. Any “character” whitnesses that would be called would be guys who played with him during the period in question. Finally, his lawyer would know what the feds would do and what questions to ask, so he would only pick whitnesses he thinks would really help Bonds. A-Rod would not be someone who fits this category for the reasons you listed. The front office guys only would have one thing to say “we felt that he was the best available option to help our team win.” That is all they need to say and that will end the questions for them.

    Also, the feds evidence is blood that tested positive for steriods, if I am not mistaken. He said that he didn’t do steriods, the blood evidence says he did. His lawyer needs to find ways to get undermind that evidence. Unreliable character whitnesses are not something that his lawyer will be focusing on, or at least it shouldn’t be.

    Just my two cents. But hey who really knows!

  191. Jerkface July 25th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    matsuzaka’s HR/9 AND HR/F are both at an all time low for his career, and a couple standard dev’s below average.

    He also suddenly became fairly unhittable. I am almost positive its because he is so wild, but wild out of the zone, that he isn’t grooving anything. I also think this won’t last.

  192. Joe from Long Island July 25th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    We’re all guessing with who might or might not be called to testify in a federal criminal trial involving Bonds. The only thing I can say is no one should ever doubt the lengths that a lawyer will go to to have his client escape jail time. They would subpoena Mother Teresa if they thought it would help their case.

    And trials absolutely have nothing to do with truth. Only perception in a juror’s mind. So anything and everything would be fair game.

  193. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    “I disagree. There’s ONE THING Ponson and Matsuzaka have in common, that prevents runs from scoring, despite a lot of baserunners, and unspectacular K rates.”

    Matsuzaka’s BABiP is also still quite low. Another thing that is likely to regress to the mean.

    Even if Matsuzaka’s ISO stayed kinda low, that’s not enough to justify such a low ERA, given the amount of baserunners he allows.

  194. CB July 25th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    “Actually I did read the whole message. My point is all of those guys could have been brought in to testify about Clemens and yet none of them were.

    I doubt highly they would be brought in for Bonds.”

    Clemens and Bonds situations are not even remotely similar. Not even close.

    Bonds is facing a Federal indictment on criminal charges. The clemens things is a civil lawsuit. Nothing alike at all.

    And we still have no idea how the Clemens thing is going to play out because the case hasn’t even gotten going yet in earnest. There still a lot that’s going to happen there.

    And how much “doubt” are you willing to live with regarding what Bonds future legal strategy will be to keep himself out of Federal jail?

    How much insight can anyone have into what exactly his team of lawyers will do? Very close to none.

    If I was his lawyer I would 100% issue subpeonas to former teammates of his left and right – i’d bring a train of guys up there to testify that they never saw Bonds use PEDs.

    His $2000/hr lawyers are going to pull out the works.

    Do you seriously think they won’t ask Pettite to testify? If I was his lawyer I would get Pettite up on the stand and ask him this:

    Mr. Pettite you are a publicly self-admitted user of human growth hormone. As such you are familiar with its procurement, its use and its physical effects. Have you witnessed Mr. Bonds using human growth hormone and if not do you have any reason to suspect he has based on his physical performance as a ball player.

    Then the prosecution is going to start hammering Andy about his use of HGH.

    How monumentally awful and embarrassing would it be for Andy Pettite to have to take the 5th amendment when called to testify at Bonds trial?

    You think the NY and national media would have a field day with that?

    Now, if I’m Hank and Hal and someone could 100% guarantee me that Pettite, Jeter, ARod, myself, would not be exposing themselves to any liability I’d start assessing Bonds from a baseball perspective. But no one could ever guarantee that.

    It doesn’t matter how long they were teammates – once Bonds joins the yankees all of those guys are his coworkers and all of the yankee management are his bosses and employers. All of them become fair game.

    Jeter and ARod would be by far the two highest profile guys Bonds has ever played with in his entire career.

    And remember – they get subpoenaed they have to go to court – and that puts the entire 2009 season at risk. If say 5 yankees, Girardi, Cashman and the Steinbrenners are testifying at that trial it will be a zoo beyond belief and you can absolutely flush the season down the toilet.

    The worst case scenario for being associated with Bonds as an employee is awful for the yankees – monumentally bad, epecially as its the first season of the new season. These are all things businesses take into consideration.

    When you hire someone its not always about performance. That’s the case with Bonds. There is no way anyone can know what his lawyers will do to try to keep him out of Federal jail – and in general high paid criminal lawyers will do just about anything to get an acquital. The potential liability is enormous and unpredictable.

  195. Fredo Corleone July 25th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    “a 1.36 WHIP isn’t overly high. Matsuzaka’s BB rate is horrible, but his hit rate is quite low. Of course it’s harder to hit a guy that doesn’t throw strikes.”

    Matsuzaka walks far too many, but is WHIP is skewed somewhat by his 1st game off the DL in which he allowed 9 hits and walks in an inning. Minus that game, his WHIP on the year is 1.28. That WHIP still belies his very low ERA but is not all that bad. Still, walks kill……eventually.
    Probably no accident he’s not pitching in this series.

  196. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    lot of typing.

  197. Someone Else July 25th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    “Someone else-
    a witness’s credibility is ALWAYS on trial. take it from a guy that has passed the bar. witnesses are half the reason cases r lost, cause their credibility goes to shreds whenthe past is brought up.”

    But the witness is not on trial. Credibility is one thing. Calling witnesses to destroy the original witness then witnesses to destroy the destroying witnesses… etc., doesn’t seem realistic, no?

  198. fuhgoobagaz July 25th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    If I have to sit through long years of watching the Yankees being like the Rays have been then, I would much rather see the Yankees win than watching players develop.

    The key to being a true winning club that can last is to develop your own talent AND bring in others. Trying to rely on talent only from within is what kept the Rays in last place. If I wanted those kind of results then I would root for the Rays or some other un-notable un-remarkable team.

  199. DFox July 25th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees should get Bonds, but CB’s point about bringing Yankees into court is just asinine.

    This is for something that happened years ago. You can’t just pull people from their lives and make them testify. Do you know what would happen if they did that? Maybe the players whose time they waste will suddenly “remember” some chatter about Bonds using steroids. You think Bonds would risk Derek Jeter or Hank Steinbrenner getting cute and saying they heard something or saw something about Bonds using? He’d have practically no chance if that happened.

    So yeah, if they wanted to complete use the system, they could call in some Yankees who he played with for 2 months more than 3 years after the incident in question, but then those people can screw Bonds over so badly that he doesn’t even have a case any more. I doubt they would do that. It could not help him in any way, shape or form. It could only hurt if someone got upset that Bonds was wasting their time.

  200. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    CB:

    Maybe Bonds he was a ploy by Yankke brass was using as leverage, to let teams know, if you want to deplete our farm system for your average players you leave us no choice.

    This is a business and Bonds would fill seats for good or bad reasons.

  201. kill.schill(ing) July 25th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Here’s a rumor I heard from a non-attributable source.

    That alone should induce skepticism, so you can dismiss it accordingly. However, it does make some sense and the name supposedly generated discussion in yesterday’s Tampa pow-wow.

    Brian Giles.

    True he hit left-handed and the Yankees would prefer a right-handed bat. However, Giles, evidently, would command far less than either Bay or Nady, let alone Tex or Holliday. Giles might not cost the Yankees much more than a prospect or two we’ve never heard of. Something along the lines of last year’s Jeff Kennard for Molina trade.

    Besides, Cashman and Towers are close friends evidently.

  202. E-Man July 25th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Are you really comparing the effects of driving intoxicated with road rage and roid rage?

    When you’re impaired, you’re impaired. There is no difference.

  203. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    TurnTwo:

    I want them to win, with there talent if possible, but you can only do that if you keep the guys you think are the next Jeter, Mo, Posada, Pettite…not trading them for Washed-up or Martse, Bay or who-ever..

  204. kill.schill(ing) July 25th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    Giles, to his credit, still has a .400 OBA, if he doesn’t hit for much power anymore.

  205. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    “But the witness is not on trial. Credibility is one thing. Calling witnesses to destroy the original witness then witnesses to destroy the destroying witnesses… etc., doesn’t seem realistic, no?”

    He didn’t say they’d call witnesses about the witnesses. But, the prosecution would certainly start asking ARod himself about all these things.

    I admit, I hadn’t seen the possibility of current Yankees winding up on the stand during a Bonds trial as a result of his being on the team now. It certainly doesn’t rationally matter. But I don’t trust a judge to disallow the defense either.

  206. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    kill: that is the ‘best’ under the radar name, i have heard. It crossed my mind yesterday.

    yes. Maybe a cashman and towers, connection.

  207. yanksfanmc July 25th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Any word on Manny yet?

  208. Brent (Yankees Need a Pick-Me-Up) July 25th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    When you’re impaired, you’re impaired. There is no difference.

    By that logic, someone who has had 3 drinks and has a BAC of .08 is as impaired as someone who has finished off a 30-pack.

  209. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    “Do you know what would happen if they did that? Maybe the players whose time they waste will suddenly “remember” some chatter about Bonds using steroids. You think Bonds would risk Derek Jeter or Hank Steinbrenner getting cute and saying they heard something or saw something about Bonds using? He’d have practically no chance if that happened.”

    You think someone would perjure himself in federal court to “get back” at bonds?

  210. Tom July 25th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    CB I think you are getting a little overzealous again. How much help do you think those people are going to be in Bonds’ favor? So, you’re telling me that if you were on trial for drug use, you’d want a friend of only two months who has admitted to drug use to testify that he never saw you using drugs? Are you kidding? Think like a lawyer for a second. Any potential whitness must be able to help your client. Knowingly putting whitness after whitness on the stand whose testimony won’t help your client because the prosecution will destroy them on cross would be grounds for a malpractice suit!

    And by they way, the second part of you question to pettitte would not be allowed because he cannot speculate to such information. He is not an expert whitness in the matter of steriods and/or their abiltiies to help improve a baseball player so his opinion would not be allowed.

  211. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    “yes. Maybe a cashman and towers, connection.”

    Paul DePodesta has publicly stated on his blog that the Padres are not open to trading Giles. He lays out their reasoning there. You’d be hearing a lot more about Giles if they were actually listening on him.

  212. Brent (Yankees Need a Pick-Me-Up) July 25th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    Are you really comparing the effects of driving intoxicated with road rage and roid rage?

    I bet I could drive better while feeling the effects of roid rage than I would feeling the effects of alcohol, so..yes..you can definitely compare/contrast the differences.

  213. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    Didn’t Giles use us for leverage to get more money from SD.

    He led us along not wanting to play in NY..remember, no to Giles please….

  214. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    “So, you’re telling me that if you were on trial for drug use, you’d want a friend of only two months who has admitted to drug use to testify that he never saw you using drugs? Are you kidding? Think like a lawyer for a second.”

    You think like a lawyer. You think that a jury of 12 average people would not be impacted by DEREK JETER and ALEX RODRIGUEZ sitting up there saying “No, I never saw Mr. Bonds use any kind of performance enhancing drug.”

    Really??

  215. G. Love July 25th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    Turn Two,

    I think the majority of the fans on this board are prospect huggers.

    They would much rather see a team of 25 homegrown players be in 3rd place for the next 5 years then make the post season in 2013 and pat themselves on the back for believing in the prospects.

    What they fail to realize is there are no championship teams that are built that way. Trades and free agency are just as important as developing prospects.

    Buck Showalter said on the radio yesterday that in his view if you develop a prospect good enough to get a guy like Holliday, that means you partly developed Holliday in your own organization by planting the seeds to obtain him.

    Somewhere in the past few years with the advent of the information on the minors being out there more than ever before, some fans of this team have picked prospects so far from the majors as their guy.

    Your guys are the 25 guys in Boston in this weekend but I think a lot of you are tired of them and desperately want new faces.

    We’re not playing for 3rd base and hugs at the corner soda fountain, this is the Yankees and we have just as good a shot to win it all this year as anyone.

    You don’t think we can beat the Cubs, if they even make it, in the World Series?

    I do.

    This team is wracked with injuries and needs another bat. I wouldn’t touch the pen (other than jettisoning Hawkins) unless you get Marte at a decent price.

    As for the rotation, we let all the big fish walk to save the kids.

    For what’s left on the starter market, we’re taking on someone’s contract problem and shouldn’t have to overpay.

    I still would have dealt the kids for CC.

    I don’t care how many innings at AAA IPK and Hughes dominate.

    It does nothing to help this team with a title if they can’t do it up here.

    I don’t get all warm and fuzzy inside knowing they’re doing well in the minors.

    I get all warm and fuzzy when they come up and strike out the side in a big spot.

    I’m a NY Yankees fan, not a Scranton/Trenton/Tampa/Charleston groupie.

    That said, the prospect huggers have their dream GM at the help right now. He’s not going to deal any of them for anything. He’ll sign DFA’d players and take on bad contracts and that’s about it. Your prospects are safe.

    I just wish we’d give up a couple for a nice bat.

  216. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    If Giles is traded for we can assume Bobby Abreu’s Yankee career is over. Also The Padres already stated they would not trade Brian Giles.

  217. Joe from Long Island July 25th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Guys, there’s a reason why lawyers try like heck to avoid going to trial. That’s because once a trial starts, the judge takes over, and the jury is seated, waiting to be told what to think, the lawyers lose all control, and anything can happen. ANYTHING. So, don’t try to think, oh, this and that can’t happen. Because you NEVER know what someone will do when they’re looking at a conviction and jail time.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise has never seen a trial go down.

  218. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 25th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Why would we trade for Brian Giles?

    Pitching people, pitching.

  219. DFox July 25th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    “You think someone would perjure himself in federal court to “get back” at bonds?”

    Hah, good one, purging. The events in question could go back 8 or 10 years. What if Jeter all of a sudden vaguely remembers some players talking about Bonds steroid use at the 2000 all star game? It was 8 years ago, no one clearly remembers things from 8 years ago. What to prove he committed perjury if he did in fact lie? Then build a time machine and go back to the clubhouse at the 2000 or ’01 all star game.

  220. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    “Didn’t Giles use us for leverage to get more money from SD.

    He led us along not wanting to play in NY..remember, no to Giles please….”

    This is a reason not to trade for a player? Stop thinking emotionally. If he was available, he’d be a solid get. They have all sorts of problems getting on base this season. And he’d probably get a bit of a power boost leaving that pitcher’s haven.

    But, he’s not available.

  221. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Any word on Manny yet?

    Not official press release but it’s more of through his friends in Washington Heights I already know what’s going on w/ him, but if I say it no one or 2/3 the posters here won’t believe me.

  222. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    amen, G Love.

  223. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    whozat:

    Good point, my bad.

  224. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 25th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    What ever happened to SJ44? I haven’t seen him on here in a long time…

  225. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    “What if Jeter all of a sudden vaguely remembers some players talking about Bonds steroid use at the 2000 all star game? It was 8 years ago, no one clearly remembers things from 8 years ago. What to prove he committed perjury if he did in fact lie?”

    This isn’t a courtroom drama. This is real life. Why would ANYONE with so very, very much to lose even RISK it? It’s not like Jeter’s done something and would be perjuring himself to cover it up. He would go in there, having done no wrong, and lie to the court to get back at Bonds? Are you kidding?

  226. CB July 25th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    “This is for something that happened years ago. You can’t just pull people from their lives and make them testify. Do you know what would happen if they did that? Maybe the players whose time they waste will suddenly “remember” some chatter about Bonds using steroids.

    Doesn’t matter that this was years ago. Jeter gets paid millions of dollars to put his face next to products – he has one of the cleanest cut images of any athlete in the entire world.

    He has some of the most “prestigious” and high profile endorsement deals in the country. Part of that is because of the image he’s cultivated as a role model, as someone the public can trust.

    He obviously test markets great.

    What lawyer would not want a guy with Jeter’s impeccable reputation – a guy the jury will have seen on TV making great plays and endorsing gatorade, etc. to say on the stand, that he’s never seen bonds use PED’s and has no first hand knowledge of it?

    The players are going to want to get off the stand as quickly as possible. They aren’t not going to try to exact some kind of revenge on bonds, never mind try to risk any kind of perjury charges.

    And them saying well i heard a rumor of bonds using ped’s is just hearsay. And many of them – especially ARod – have made multiple public statements that are very favorable about Bonds already – ARod was asked about Bonds a ton last year and always said flattering things about him. He’s not going to get up on the stand and start saying negative things about him that contradict public statements.

    None of us has any idea what his defense team will do. None. But hiring him does expose them to additional, marginal liability. They’re the NY Yankees and Bonds trial will be a mess to begin with.

  227. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    G-love:

    Great point……..

    If we got CC, this would be over.

  228. Brent (Yankees Need a Pick-Me-Up) July 25th, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    They would much rather see a team of 25 homegrown players be in 3rd place for the next 5 years then make the post season in 2013 and pat themselves on the back for believing in the prospects.

    You exaggerate a bit..First off, the majority of the people here want the Yankees to keep the top prospects. They haven’t said “NO TRADES. EVER.” Today alone, Kennedy has been thrown into hundreds of possible scenarios. Also, everyone knows that the Yankees’ front office would never sit back and “rebuild”. That being said, the Yankees will see the fruits of their labor before 2013, and when that occurs, they will stay in contention for a long time.

    It makes no sense to claim that the Yankees would wait 5 years out of contention just for a 2013 playoff birth, as you put it. It would likely be a close-to-automatic bid into the 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 playoffs. All this while the Yankees are continuing to stay in contention. What’s so bad about that?

  229. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 25th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Tim/G. Love,

    You guys both assume that CC would resign with the Yankees, right?

    What if he didn’t? Then would it have been worth it?

    Simple answer to that: NO.

  230. Tom July 25th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    whozat,

    Would you be impacted? Well one, I am thinking like a lawyer. Two, what if Dusty Baker, his longtime manager said that he didn’t use PEDS during the entire time I managed him? Or, what about Jeff Kent, a guy who we think doesn’t like Bonds very much said that he didn’t ever see Bonds using PEDS. Whose opinion would you think, as an average person on a jury, carries more weight? Jeter and A-Rod who didn’t see him do it after he has been indicted, or the people he played with during the time of his drug use before he was indicted?

    Again, just my two cents.

  231. nyyfaninlaaland July 25th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Whozat –

    it’s not that cut and dried on the value of ERA when compared to WHIP. First, Matsuzaka’s WHIP is okay – not great, but not bad. And it’s depressed by a bad BB rate, sustained by a very good hit rate. Hits are more impactful on run scoring than BB – almost never see a baserunner advance 2 bases on a BB. That Dice has surrendered so few HR is what’s really lowering his ERA. I don’t know why that is the case given he’s a flyball pitcher, but I suspect he works up in the zone a lot and gets a lot of popups. I could look the data up, but I’m being lazy.

    Ponson’s WHIP is bad because he gives up a lot of hits, but because he’s such a GB pitcher (a la Wang, though I’m not arguing he’s in Wang’s catagory) that holds down his extra base hits and gets him more DP’s, helping hold down his ERA.

    I had an exchange with a guy on a Rays site earlier this year who’s a bit of a stat freak. I agree that WHIP is about the best predictor of ERA out there. But one disadvantage of WHIP is that it treats hits and BB as the same, and suppresses the impact of surrendering XBH’s. A HR and a BB are treated as equal. I suggested a stat idea to him – bases allowed per IP, which would also include HBP’s. He ran some numbers and this seemed to correlate better with ERA than WHIP did. Frankly I think this is simple common sense – gotta get 4 bases to score, so allowing more bases should mean more runs. WHIP overstates the impact of BB’s, and understates the impact of SLG against. Both of these factors help explain the discrepancies for Dice-K and Sir Sid. Of course, they’ve also been a bit lucky as well. Let’s hope that turns for Dice, not for Sid.

  232. William Buckner July 25th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Oh come on Brandon, let’s have it.

  233. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    “I don’t get all warm and fuzzy inside knowing they’re doing well in the minors.

    I get all warm and fuzzy when they come up and strike out the side in a big spot. ”

    And, if you continually send off the only young, controllable talent you have, you wind up having to sign the Jaret Wrights of the world to fill out your rotation.

    We have BEEN down the road you advocate. It’s led us to a 200 million dollar team of aging vets that we can’t trade to restock the farm and can’t quite get the job done.

    I get excited about guys like Hughes because, to me, he and his brethren mean the end of having to even consider signing guys like Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright ever again.

    If we follow the “trade the young guys for CC” model, we get two months a great starter and lose Jackson, Hughes et al…and then have to continue looking to sign guys like Pat Burrell over and over again because we never generate any talent to help the big league club.

  234. DFox July 25th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    “This isn’t a courtroom drama. This is real life. Why would ANYONE with so very, very much to lose even RISK it? It’s not like Jeter’s done something and would be perjuring himself to cover it up. He would go in there, having done no wrong, and lie to the court to get back at Bonds? Are you kidding?”

    You don’t get it. It’s not perjury. No human being can be expected to remember events from 8 years ago. Saying you THINK, I repeat, THINK, you heard something isn’t lying, and again, you tell me how it could ever be proven what was said in a locker room between 45 guys 8 years ago. It can’t. And what does Jeter have to gain? People would love the guy even more for helping bring down this guy who the public despises in Bonds.

    And you know what? If you start bringing Giambi, A-Rod, Jeter, etc into a courtroom, I would say the odds are pretty damn good that someone actually DID see something or hear something that could damage him much more than a useless testimony can help him.

  235. Someone Else July 25th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    “I think the majority of the fans on this board are prospect huggers.

    They would much rather see a team of 25 homegrown players be in 3rd place for the next 5 years then make the post season in 2013 and pat themselves on the back for believing in the prospects.”

    Ah, nice straw man. Beautiful ‘argument’.

    I am not a ‘prospect hugger’. I believe in getting maximum value, however. Dealing Hughes+Kennedy+Jackson for 1+ seasons of Matt Holliday is NOT getting maximum value.

    Maximum value would be attained by waiting.

    Don’t believe me? What do you think Joba’s value is today, compared to pre-2007? Pre-2007 Joba could have been dealt as part of a package to get Santana. Present day Joba was WAY too much to pay for Sabathia.

    I personally believe Hughes to have a very solid shot at being the pitcher he was projected to be (he’s only 22). I’m less sold on Jackson and even less sold on Kennedy. I would not dream of dealing 2 or 3 of them to land a rental player.

    To put it even more simply: which would you prefer? 2009 Yankees with Hughes, Kennedy, Jackson in AAA (major league minimum when called up), Sabathia or Teixeira signed for 5-7 years, or 2009 Yankees with neither of the three, and Holliday in RF for a similar contract extension (no sense dealing for him if you don’t extend him)?

  236. G. Love July 25th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    Tim,

    Imagine if we were throwing Joba, CC and Pettitte this weekend. We could have been. The Indians have said we matched up prospect wise but Cashman didn’t make the deal.

    It’s rumored the deal was tanked over us not getting a window with CC to resign him first, but if I knew we had him, I would have traded for him and convinced him with money and a title this year to stay here. It’s a risk, but I’d take it to win this season.

    That’s what I think about. I’d much rather have those 3 going for us this weekend than have Hughes and Kennedy in the minors right now, but what do I know.

  237. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 25th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    JESUS!!! We play the Red Sox tonight and you guys continue to babble about PEDs and Barry Bonds?!??!!

    WHO CARES!!! Bigger things are on deck people.

  238. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 25th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Brandon: The Yankees re 4-0 in Ponson starts, and Mike Mussina is our best starter.

    I’ll believe anything.

    What’s going on?

  239. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    What ever happened to SJ44? I haven’t seen him on here in a long time…

    He was here yesterday.

  240. DFox July 25th, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    “What lawyer would not want a guy with Jeter’s impeccable reputation – a guy the jury will have seen on TV making great plays and endorsing gatorade, etc. to say on the stand, that he’s never seen bonds use PED’s and has no first hand knowledge of it?”

    Don’t you see how that can easily backfire? It’s just silly. Don’t you see the risk vs. the reward for Bonds?

    Reward: Jeter follows the script, says he never saw Bonds use steroids in the period that is NOT in question, the last two months of his career, and it really in the end is useless anyway.

    Risk:

  241. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    “Would you be impacted?”

    I would never get onto the jury. I pay too much attention to things like baseball and science.

    “If we got CC, this would be over.”

    Bull. You look at this team and think they’re one great starter away from a championship? Don’t be fooled by the offense for the last six games. They are still going to struggle. They are multiple pieces away from being a legit WS threat. You don’t dump all your chips on a run at the WC and a probable first round exit.

  242. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 25th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    Brandon,

    Thanks. Really? He must have decreased his postings considerably. Or am I just missing them?

  243. DFox July 25th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    Risk: Jeter decides since everyone despises Bonds, he’s going to tell what he thought he saw/heard 8 years ago where no one can actual confirm or deny it, and maybe be the guy who helped put Barry Bonds, the despised cheater away.

    You don’t see how the plan can possibly go wrong? It’s a plan with no legal reward and only legal risk.

    And like I said before, the more players Bonds starts marching in there, the much larger the chance that someone actual DID see something and clearly remembers it becomes.

  244. Blargh July 25th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    DePodesta keeps a blog?

  245. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Brandon: The Yankees re 4-0 in Ponson starts, and Mike Mussina is our best starter.

    I’ll believe anything.

    What’s going on?

    Rebecca remember what Jason Kidd did to the NJ Nets ..lets say Manny being Manny right now.

  246. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    “That’s what I think about. I’d much rather have those 3 going for us this weekend than have Hughes and Kennedy in the minors right now, but what do I know.”

    I’d rather have Hughes, Kennedy and CC all in my rotation for the next 6 years. Which the Yankees can have for nothing but money after this offseason.

    When your starting catcher and DH are both out for the season, your RFer is the least valuable in the league, your SS is having the worst offensive season of his career, your ace pitcher is out for the season, and Sidney Ponson and Darrell Rasner round out your rotation, you are WAY more than CC Sabathia away from “winning this season.”

  247. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Thanks. Really? He must have decreased his postings considerably. Or am I just missing them?

    missing them.

  248. CB July 25th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    “How much help do you think those people are going to be in Bonds’ favor? So, you’re telling me that if you were on trial for drug use, you’d want a friend of only two months who has admitted to drug use to testify that he never saw you using drugs? Are you kidding?”

    Tom,

    You mentioned something about Bonds failing a blood test and that being the evidence against him.

    That is incorrect. Bonds has never, ever failed any kind of PED test.

    Nor has any individual ever come out and said they saw Bonds use drugs – his trainer has gone to jail instead of testifying against him.

    And MLB players aren’t blood tested – only urine tested. HGH is not detectable in urine so its impossible right now to have a positive HGH test.

    The evidence for his use of PEDs is things like cancelled checks to BALCo and deliver of packages thought to have steroids, etc. Things like that.

    That’s what bonds keeps saying – I’ve never failed a drug test all of these charges are false. That’s what his defense will be.

    That’s why he’s not going to lose by having major league teammates of his keep testifying to whether they saw him use drugs – none have.

    He could get a string of former teammates from every team he’s played for to testify to that effect.

    Again – this is just about how much potential risk the yankees want to take on as a business for employing bonds. As Joe said before – no one has any idea what is going to happen at a trial. As business do the yankees want to take on any additional risk? Because the worst case scenario for them is very bad.

    It’s not an accident that no team has hired bonds. I’m sure they’ve all discussed it with their own lawyers regarding the potential ramifications and I don’t think they were reassured.

  249. whozat July 25th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    “DePodesta keeps a blog?”

    Yep.

    http://itmightbedangerous.blogspot.com/

  250. mel July 25th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Lots of good talk this morning, but I’m really looking forward to a good game.

    One thing the Yankees have going is that they feel good about themselves. And Joba’s on the mound!

    Completely not germane to the discussion, but the Cubs have called up RHP Jeff Samardzija. Remember him? He was Brady Quinn’s star receiver at Notre Dame. I think it’s great that baseball’s worked out for him. It’s always interesting to see how the careers of those multisport athletes arc.

    Hoping for good things for our own Andrew Brackman.

  251. Tom July 25th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    DFox, you just stole my next line. Risk v. Reward. Anyway, enough of this! Forget Barry, let’s hope Joba knocks Papi on his but and changes the culture of pitching him right down the middle to let him kill us!

    Any idea, if Manny “give me my tickets you stupid old man, ouch i hurt my knee” Ramirez is going to “try and suck it up for this big series. Or is he going to pull a Nomar and sit on the bench while Derick dives in the stands?

  252. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 25th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    whozat,

    I agree.

    If anything, trading for a starting pitcher would get us through this season and help us compete for the playoffs.

    Sabathia would have helped quite a bit, but I am not convinced that we were just one player away from a title.

    I think the fact that escapes people is that A) if we were going to make a trade like this, it would have been for Santana with whom we KNEW we could have negotiated a contract and B) that with CC we would pay with our best prospects for a rental without any guarantee that a championship would be ours in 2008.

  253. Someone Else July 25th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    “Tim,

    Imagine if we were throwing Joba, CC and Pettitte this weekend. We could have been. The Indians have said we matched up prospect wise but Cashman didn’t make the deal.

    It’s rumored the deal was tanked over us not getting a window with CC to resign him first, but if I knew we had him, I would have traded for him and convinced him with money and a title this year to stay here. It’s a risk, but I’d take it to win this season.

    That’s what I think about. I’d much rather have those 3 going for us this weekend than have Hughes and Kennedy in the minors right now, but what do I know.”

    CC helps the Yankees win the 2008 World Series, Yankee Stadium is closed in glory. CC walks, to be signed by the Angels for 8 years and too much money. Hughes and Kennedy develop; Hughes is CC good over the next 4-5 years, and Kennedy is a solid 6 IP, 3.75 ERA guy.

    If that scenario comes true, the Yankees made a bad trade.

  254. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Tom your warm…

  255. G. Love July 25th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    If, we had traded for CC and he walked, we’d get the picks. With the way we’re drafting now, we’d be well on our way to replacing the players we traded AND we may have won a title because of trading for CC.

    Would I trade Hughes for Holliday? Yes. I’d do it. Hughes has a ton to prove still and from what I’ve seen he needs to develop more as a pitcher.

    The problem with him is he’s too good for AAA, but not good enough for the majors. I think it’s the same problem as Kennedy.

    So in order to develop these guys at the major league level, you’re going to have to cost your team wins.

    And then you still have no guarantee that they will develop at the major league level. They may get their brains beat in (like this season) and then tax your bullpen.

    If I could trade them for an All Star OF who hits RH and is a good guy in the clubhouse would can help me win this year and next year, I’d do it.

    Because just like with CC, you would get the picks for Holliday if he walked in 2010 and you’d be well on your way to replacing the talent you gave up.

    My way isn’t sign Jaret Wright and Pavano. You develop some for the big league team and you trade some for pieces. You make better free agent decisions on major league players than Cashman has in the past few years.

    You don’t sign Sheffield when you could have had Guerrero. You don’t sign Igawa instead of Lilly.

    A lot of what went wrong in the past years is because of the players chosen, not the fact that we had to choose players in the first place.

    Some of it is on Cashman and some of it is on George.

    All I’m saying is we shouldn’t be afraid of dealing kids who aren’t ready to help the team now. We should try to win a title this year.

    I think some of you would pout if we won a title this year and we lost some kids.

    I’d celebrate. I want to see these guys win. I’d like to see Mussina and Giambi get their first rings. I’d like to see Mo, Jeter, Pettitte and Posada get another. I’d like to see Joba get his first.

    You don’t win a title every year, but we have as good a chance as anyone this season. Every contender has flaws right now.

    All I’m asking is we address a couple before the deadline.

  256. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    dang, Samardzija up already?

    it seems like he fly’d through the system.

  257. William Buckner July 25th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Brandon,
    if he’s sitting (claiming to be hurt) to force a trade or the RS to pick up that option, why would you think people wouldn’t believe you?

    He’s done this before.

  258. mel July 25th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    vinny b,

    Yes, I’m sure that Kerry Wood was the deciding factor when he was weighing which sport to pursue.

    “Kerry Wood’s still playing? There’s a good chance he’ll open up a spot. I think I’ll sign with the Cubs.” And kazam! Wouldn’t you know, that’s exactly what happened. lol.

  259. randy l July 25th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    “I think the majority of the fans on this board are prospect huggers.”

    good one.

    it may also have to do that the average age of “prospect huggers” is about the age of the prospects.

    it’s in their self interest to say experience doesn’t matter no matter how delusional that is.

  260. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    “CC helps the Yankees win the 2008 World Series, Yankee Stadium is closed in glory. CC walks, to be signed by the Angels for 8 years and too much money. Hughes and Kennedy develop; Hughes is CC good over the next 4-5 years, and Kennedy is a solid 6 IP, 3.75 ERA guy.

    If that scenario comes true, the Yankees made a bad trade.”

    first, what makes you think the Angels are going to give a pitcher an 8 year contract?

    second, under that scenerio, the yankees win the WS. awesome.

    third, its awfully presumptuous to think Hughes could be as good as the reigning AL, and perhaps now NL, CY Young award winner over teh next 4 years when he hasnt pitched 100 innings in a MLB season yet.

    fourth, you dont think if CC came to NY, won a WS, became a star on the grand stage, that he wouldnt take the Yankees money and remain on a contender for the next 7 years? dont you think the yankees would press harder to keep him in this scenerio, knowing they couldnt extend him early on, but now that they gave up the prospects, there was no way they would let him walk?

    idk, man. i was hesitant to give up the prospects for CC for a half season and first cracks at extending him, but right now, Doug Melvin looks like a f’n genious, and Cashman is hoping the Mariners let Washburn go on a salary dump.

  261. YankeeFansAreDumb July 25th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    IGAWA IS STILL OWED IN EXCESS OF 13 MILLION DOLLARS…

    He is signed FOR 2009, 2010, AND 2011 AT $4MM per year.

    Plus he’s still got 1.5MM left on this year’s contract.

    SO WASHBURN AND IGAWA BOTH WILL MAKE THE SAME MONEY, TAKING IGAWA BACK IS NOT SALARY RELIEF IT’S SALARY EXCHANGE… GET IT?!?!

    Washburn is worth TWO PICKS when he’s OFFERED ARBITRATION!! Supplemental Pick (sandwich between 1st and 2nd round) & a 2nd round pick.

    So you are talking about trading for Washburn and 2 picks.

    Plus 10MM is below market value for a starter with his resume.

    Washburn has been one of the best 5 starters in baseball over the last two months of the season, this is why the Yankees are going to do it.

    Also, having Washburn who dominates the Rays, Orioles, and does well against the Red Sox, these things all make the Yankees a better team!

    I wish just one dumb Yankee fan would do some research instead of sitting around with their chest hair coming out of their twice unbuttoned shirt, while mayonaisse and mustard ooze out of the sandwich they are eating at the local deli, telling their friend all the wisdom they have to impart on them.

    Just makes me sick to think of all you whiny New Yorkers complaining about getting a guy. We’ll keep Washburn for next season before we’ll give him away to you guys, plus it’s not like the Yankees aren’t bidding against other teams!

  262. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    William usually alot of posters BS on computer, like I can tell you David Ortiz and Manny had a fight but w/o proof no one believes you (P.S. that didn’t happen just an example).

    Manny is pissed w/ John Henry and Theo Epstein, Francona has been trying to keep him calm but this past week when he left, he was cursing out management and gave them a “you wanna see what this team is w/o me” speeches, to keep it quiet the Red Sox put him on inactive for this week, this is truely his last season in Boston, they have gotten tired of him the play in LF just made a tense situation more tense.

  263. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    lol, mel. you right.

    he was my boyy, when at ND.

  264. mel July 25th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    So Mussina, Pettitte, and Washburn have been 3 of the 5 best starters in the last month. Who’re the other two?

  265. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 25th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Brandon: That doesn’t surprise me, at all.

    Though Kid was more important to the Nets than Manny to the Sox–the Sox can win without Manny.

    The Nets couldn’t without J-Kidd

  266. Tom July 25th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    CB, then what is the evidence that the Feds have against him?

    This from the SF Chronicle:

    “I’ve never seen these documents,” Barry Bonds said.
    He was testifying before a federal grand jury investigating the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, or BALCO, and had just been shown what prosecutors say was a positive steroid test conducted on a player named Barry B.
    “I’ve never seen these papers,” Bonds repeated, according to Thursday’s indictment charging Bonds with perjury and obstruction of justice.
    Those test results may now be the vital linchpin to proving he lied under oath.
    Bonds’ lawyers are expected to fiercely attack their reliability, much the way O.J. Simpson’s legal team undermined the football star’s murder case by questioning the handling of his blood samples.”

    Criminal defense attorneys not affiliated with the case say the reliability of blood and urine tests are always open to second-guessing even when the forensic handling is done flawlessly.
    “There is always an opportunity to attack that kind of forensic evidence through its chain of custody,” said attorney William Sullivan, who recently won an acquittal for former federal prosecutor Richard Convertino on an obstruction charge alleging he withheld evidence in a terrorism trial in Detroit.
    “You look at how the evidence was preserved, who handled it,” Sullivan said. “You can even attack the analysis itself.”
    Similar chain-of-custody problems exploited by Simpson’s lawyers helped derail the prosecution’s murder case against him.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....013S18.DTL

  267. Blargh July 25th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    “it may also have to do that the average age of “prospect huggers” is about the age of the prospects.

    it’s in their self interest to say experience doesn’t matter no matter how delusional that is.”

    Well, I am around their age (early 20′s). My personal interest is for the Yankees to win as many rings as possible during *my* lifetime. Long-term planning is the best shot for such an interest.

  268. Virgin Islands July 25th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Matsuzaka is not pitching this weekend because his turn doesn’t come up. The Red Sox aren’t afraid to pitch him against the Yankees.

  269. William Buckner July 25th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Brandon,
    That sounds right to me. Couple observations on that. One, the comments Henry made after Manny called them liars. Two, the look on Theo’s face last week when Manny roles over the ball and then laughing about it. Three, the fight earlier this year. There are clearly guys on this team he doesn’t like. Your thoughts?

  270. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    brandon: thank you, for the info. I believe it.

    it is difficult to imagine, his days in boston bein over, following the season.

  271. CB July 25th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    “it seems like he fly’d through the system.”

    Samardzija is a very good example of a player rushed through a system because he was given an enormous major league contract to sign.

    Samardizija has been one of the more perplexing prospects in the game since he signed that enormous contract – the Cubs gave him a $10 million major league deal to get him out of playing football. That is enormous.

    They did it with the idea that they’d get back a quick return on their investment.

    Didn’t turn out that way – he was awful in A ball. Despite that they promoted him to AA last year and he still wasn’t good. They converted him to the pen – a little better but still bad.

    He started this year in AA and didn’t pitch very well but got promoted to AAA and has done significantly better.

    Some prospects do better against better competition – usually ones who are far more talented than guys they play against (Cano) and that usually happens in the lower minors.

    Cubs seem to be making the same assumption about Smarsizja. We’ll see. He hasn’t had much success in the minors but the Cubs system is empty, they paid him a lot of money and they have a need.

  272. Adam July 25th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Where there’s smoke there’s fire. All things point to Washburn being a Yankee as soon as the rough edges are snipped off the deal.

  273. Jorge Steinbrenner July 25th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    “it may also have to do that the average age of “prospect huggers” is about the age of the prospects.

    it’s in their self interest to say experience doesn’t matter no matter how delusional that is.”

    you couldn’t be any more wrong.

    if anything, i think it’s the other way around. i think the people who think you can improve your team via PS3-like trades that are probably as old as your average garden variety…..Staten Island Yankee.

    i’m not saying i was around to watch Mickey Mantle play or anything, but I’m certainly old enough to remember the time where this franchise didn’t value prospects at all, didn’t win championships, and got beat by their former prospects.

    i can’t believe people think crap like this is going to come off as intelligent discourse on a Yankee blog. this is the kind of stuff than runs the comment section here into the toilet.

  274. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    Rebecca I think they might deal for Holliday and move MAnny somewhere else. (I’m not sure about that but I keep thinking that) Manny this year hired Boras for the purpose to see if he can land a final longterm big deal, the Red Sox have not committed to him and are giving him signs that they think w/ Ortiz they will be 100 % fine, Manny is flippin’ them the bird this week, Francona tried to discipline him the other week vs us and he stood there vs Mariano and took 3 pitches , he even told some teammates he would do it. So all is not rosey if Manny returns sometime this coming week it’s to cover up what is happening but they are definitely not seeing eye to eye.

  275. mel July 25th, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Manny will play this weekend. If he doesn’t, then he’s not faking.

    Blargh,

    You’re only twenty something? You seem older.

    And is it really necessary to call people names? We’re all Yankee fans and namecalling is so condescending.

  276. mel July 25th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    Blargh,

    Sorry, that last part wasn’t directed at you. You prospect hugger!

  277. randy l July 25th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    “DePodesta keeps a blog?”
    “Yep.”

    isn’t he the poster child for the failed sabermetrically inclined ivy leaguer?

    the irony of moneyball was that billy beane has serious playing experience credentials.

  278. stuart July 25th, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    Washbum will not get the Yanks 2 picks down the line.. NEVER HAPPEN. HE is 33 going on 34, he will be 34 and of his contract no one will sign him if it costs them 2 picks.

    NO FRIGGIN CHANCE People just spout BS on this site.. Untrue, again like Washbum is a real asset, yes he is better then PONSON but so is Kennedy and others………….

  279. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    G. Love:

    I totally agree.

    whozat:
    Do not tell me about the offense, You know a rotation of:
    Pettite, CC, Mussina, Joba, Ponson/Karsenanyone. We would win the East easy…

  280. CB July 25th, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    “then what is the evidence that the Feds have against him? ”

    Take a look at Game of Shadows or the Mitchell report. That’s a lot of the evidence. In fact the guys who wrote Game of Shadows based it on grand jury evidence that was leaked to them.

    Here’s the website the reporters put up – its a good source on the entire issue:

    http://www.gameofshadows.com/

  281. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 25th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    I can’t say it’s the smartest thing Many’s ever done.

    I mean, it’s one thing to want out, but right now all he’s showing the other teams is that it’s his way or the highway

    He’s acting like a crybaby, if this is all true.

  282. Tom July 25th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    CB, what does Samardzija throw?

  283. vinny-b July 25th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    CB:

    thank you for info on Samardzija.

  284. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    To me OJ is the reason Bonds has a shot at being equitted.

  285. bigjf July 25th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    I understand the Yanks don’t want to pay all of Washburn’s contract or give him any extra, but don’t do it at the cost of better players in the exchange. I’d rather not make a deal at all. Washburn is not that special, and Vidro is terrible.

    Colorado and Pittsburgh, I’m sure they’re asking too much right now, but if Fuentes and Marte are available at all, they will land at least 1 or 2 blue chip prospects from a team like the Brewers on the cusp who is desperate for relief help. Otherwise, they won’t get traded.

    I’d rather the Yanks make trades for a bat (corner outfielder) and a catcher. I’m not a believer that Jose Molina can necessarily do it everyday. I’ve said before I’d like to hear the price for Bengie Molina. I’d also like to sign Freddy Garcia, but I’m not so sure I’d want to give him a contract for 2009 that he’s apparently now looking for, so that might be out. I’d like to see the Yanks go with Aceves anyway. Maybe Ohlendorf gets a chance as a starter. If they can get Wang back, wonderful. If he gets back in mid-season form, that’s the big “acquisition.” Other than that, I think this team has a chance to make a run as is constructed, and then focus on Sabathia, etc. in the off-season.

  286. Pov July 25th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    I think that this trade talk goes the way that it has of late for the Yanks. They won’t pickup a player that could help them and Cashman will elect to just play the cards that he has.

    Like the stock market things will turn around eventually, we just don’t know what year or decade that will be.

  287. mel July 25th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Tom,

    Here’s an article. Looks like his learning curve picked up as of late. Did he play in college? If not, this is a good story:
    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb

  288. pat July 25th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Francona on WFAN in a minute.

  289. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Rebecca the teams around the ML don’t really know that. It’s only the Red Sox again I wouldn’t be surprised he missed this series, but keep in mind if they want to cover it up and Manny just wants to play he will play. I doubt that will happen.

  290. Brad July 25th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    It’s not out of the question to see Manny as a Met next year. John Henry is the type of owner that would rather get rid of a player too soon rather than too late and he’s not interested in paying Manny’s options of 2009-2010 at $20M per.
    The Mets don’t have the resources to deal for Manny this year but will want Manny as a free agent and will pay to have a marquee name added to open up CitiField in 2009.

  291. TKinDC July 25th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Francona is coming up on the FAN

  292. Roger Ebert July 25th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    For your consideration,

    The X-Files: I Want to Believe —— 3.5 Stars

    Step Brothers —— 1.5 Stars

    Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired —— 1.5 Stars

    Brideshead Revisited —— 3.0 Stars

    The Dark Knight —— 4.0 Stars

    Mamma Mia! —— 2.0 Stars

    Hellboy II: The Golden Army —— 3.5 Stars

    Journey to the Center of the Earth —— 2.0 Stars

  293. Don Vito A. Bellamo July 25th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    did he play in college ? uh..yes…and he was VERY good !

  294. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Brad it’s not out of the realm Manny becomes a Phillie (next year)

  295. pat July 25th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Francona says Manny in line-up

  296. CB July 25th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Samardzija throws hard – he can hit 96-97. But his fastball has been very, very straight and very hittable. Remarkably so. A lot of times guys who throw that hard and straight can get by on velocity in the minors – not him.

    He has also had very poor command, especially of his breaking stuff.

    I have no idea what happened to him in AAA – perhaps he put it all together. But its strange because he was really, really struggling with his stuff.

    He hasn’t played a lot of baseball in his life and didn’t play against high level competition at Notre Dame. He was signed because they thought he was a great athlete who could throw 97.

    It was very, very financially risky for the Cubs – one of the biggest risks anyone has taken recently in the amateur market.

    With two sport guys (e.g. Austin Jackson) you can spread their signing bonus over 5 years instead of paying it all at once. That’s leverage MLB uses to ensure the player doesn’t jump ship. The Sox just signed their first round pick Pat Kelly to this kind of contract – had a scholarship to QB at Tennesse.

    But Samardizja signed a contract saying that he would definitely not play football and if he did he’d have to forfeit all of his signing bonus.

    With that the Cubs gave him all that money up front. I think his signing bonus was around $7.5 M and his total major league deal was $10M. So he got all 7.5M up front.

    We’ll see. Seems like they’re rushing him to me.

  297. randy l July 25th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    “i can’t believe people think crap like this is going to come off as intelligent discourse on a Yankee blog. this is the kind of stuff than runs the comment section here into the toilet.”

    tell me what you really think. lol.

    there was a time when it was cost effective to not value prospects that much. players peak in their late twenties. they will beat prospects always. why not pay for peak players (if you have the money)who were free agents in a time when there was no revenue sharing or luxury tax?

    times change which means strategies change. emphasizing prospects are a smart way to go now ,but that’s league wide standard operation now. there’s nothing cutting edge about it.

    what are the yankees going to do with hughes when he finally peaks at 26 and is a free agent and wants sabathia money? go with prospects or go with free agents?

    because there has been a new strategy with bringing up a lot of prospects as fast as possible there is going to be a whole lot of very young free agents in 4-5 years.

    what’s working now won’t work then.

  298. gayle July 25th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    Brandon–

    As a Phillies fan I will gladly take Manny in Philly next year. Oh my goodness gracious can you imagine him in that park.

  299. bigjf July 25th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Brad, I think you got a better chance at seeing Manny as a Yankee.

    I happen to think Boston will pick up Manny’s option years separately. I doubt they’ll let him go.

  300. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Here’s a point:

    Everyone wants to see the “Dark Knight” yet Christian Bale was just in the news for assaulting his mom and sister. Shouldn’t we boycott the movie, instead of condoning it and putting money in his pocket.

  301. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    you know, i could definately see the Saux pull off a Holliday deal, and then spin Manny to the Mets for a good prospect.

  302. mel July 25th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    Don Vito,

    Thanks. Didn’t realize that ND fielded teams other than football.

  303. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    He tarnished the Image of Batman.

  304. scott July 25th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    How’s Holliday at Fenway? good #?

  305. TKinDC July 25th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    mel –

    I’m not sure that ND fielded a football team last year! :)

  306. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    “what are the yankees going to do with hughes when he finally peaks at 26 and is a free agent and wants sabathia money? go with prospects or go with free agents?”

    Do the Yankees EVER let any of their good players go when it’s time to sign them to a long term deal? The one I can remember is Andy Pettitte but he turned down the Yankee deal.

    Do you really believe the Yankees will let Joba go instead of signing him to a long term deal?

    The Yankees don’t let their homegrown players walk away from the team. They’ve never operated like that and I doubt they ever will.

  307. MoBoy(aka McLovin) July 25th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Timothy Clougher:

    Did he hit or just screamed aand yell.Assault against somebody doesn’t mean hit only.I mean from what I heard he’s mom talked about Bale’s wife badly causing Bale to freak out and there mother and sister were asking for a lot of money.

    Everybody has at one time a bad moment with there mother at some point.But it’s family.

  308. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    you know, i could definately see the Saux pull off a Holliday deal, and then spin Manny to the Mets for a good prospect.

    Bucholz for Holliday..Manny for Heilman and F-Mart ( :( ) I hope not.

  309. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    “Everyone wants to see the “Dark Knight” yet Christian Bale was just in the news for assaulting his mom and sister. Shouldn’t we boycott the movie, instead of condoning it and putting money in his pocket.”

    idk, i read something about his sister asking him for like a $200K loan, and then things got rowdy when he wasnt exactly open to the idea.

    but i heard the movie itself it awesome, definately going to see it tomorrow after work.

  310. scott July 25th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    an old Meryl Streep singing (and dancing) kind of scares me!

  311. raymagnetic â„¢ July 25th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    “Everyone wants to see the “Dark Knight” yet Christian Bale was just in the news for assaulting his mom and sister. Shouldn’t we boycott the movie, instead of condoning it and putting money in his pocket.”

    Long as he didn’t use steroids it’s okay. :)

  312. DFox July 25th, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    “Everybody has at one time a bad moment with there mother at some point.But it’s family.”

    Yeah, I agree. And something seems weird about the whole situation. What were they doing at HIS hotel room? It’s his room. If there’s going to be trouble they shouldn’t be hanging out in his hotel room.

  313. Rebecca--Optimist Prime-Mo for Cy Young 08 July 25th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Brandon: Manny’s not playing on an obscure Kansas City team; people actually care about what goes down in Boston.

    Manny keeps this up, people *will* notice.

  314. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Brandon, definately.

    you dont think Omar would jump at Manny if he could get him? and Manny would prob love to play back in NY, in the new ballpark. mets could certainly afford to guarantee him his two one year options to get him to waive his no trade.

    imagine a lineup with Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Manny in Queens? holy schnikes.

    and the Saux wouldnt skip a beat with Holliday in LF.

  315. SJ44 July 25th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    The prospect hugger stuff is a load crap.

    Some fans refuse to look at baseball as a business. They just have their rooting interest, think game to game, and that’s it.

    Why pay twice for CC Sabathia? He’s going to test the market in the off-season. Why would you give up A List prospects for a guy now when you can sign him for all the money you want to pay in the off-season? It makes no logical baseball sense.

    If the Yankees want CC Sabathia, they simply have to make the biggest offer in the off-season and he is theirs. They can do it without surrendering a single player.

    Please don’t give me the, “If we had CC it would be over now” nonsense.

    This is the same guy who MELTED in the post-season last year.

    I think CC is an excellent pitcher and I think he will be a Yankee next year. That said, getting him guarantees NOTHING.

    There isn’t one player in the game whose acquisition is going to decide a playoff spot or a World Series.

    Pitching hasn’t been the Yankees problem this year. Its been offense and injuries.

    When you lose your starting catcher, DH and #1 starter, getting a pitcher isn’t the be all, end all to winning.

    Folks who like prospects aren’t “prospect huggers”. They simply understand where the game is going today.

    The same folks who rip on “prospect huggers” would have demanded Bernie Williams be traded for YEARS if the internet existed back when he was starting out.

    The whole concept when it comes to the Yankees is balance.

    They traded two good, young players (Navarro and Vasquez) for Randy Johnson. The last, “missing piece” to a championship.

    How did that work out? Not very good at all.

    When you are a GM, you have to think big and small picture. Fans just think small picture. Great for being a fan but, not for a GM.

    Cashman has never said he isn’t interested in trading prospects. Never. What he won’t do is trade A List prospects for rental players. Especially overrated rental players like Nady and Fuentes for example.

    Matt Holliday would require 3 A List prospects just to get into the conversation. You also have to deal with Scott Boras after surrendering that bounty.

    What is the logic in that? Teams are moving away, not toward, Boras clients these days. Look at Holliday’s splits away from Coors Field before demanding Cashman make a deal like that.

    The problem is, some folks just want to rip on Cashman because they don’t like him. No logic to it other than fans believing he “isn’t doing enough” for the team.

    Even though the team has the highest payroll in the game, has guys like Arod, Jeter, Rivera, etc on it, it still isn’t enough for some people.

    If there is a deal that makes sense, Cashman will do it. He has been given the authority by Hank and Hal to go for it.

    But, he won’t surrender the future to save this season. Nor should he.

  316. Timothy Clougher July 25th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    MoBoy(aka McLovin):

    I agree, but we really don’t know. The problem is he gets the benefit of the doubt.

    Bonds doesn’t get that..

  317. Someone Else July 25th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Good post, SJ44. We definitely don’t see eye to eye on everything, but good post.

  318. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    TurnTwo Philly losing Burrell remember ? you think they won’t throw the cash in that firld can you imagine Manny’s numbers 8O

  319. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    field*

  320. CB July 25th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    “because there has been a new strategy with bringing up a lot of prospects as fast as possible there is going to be a whole lot of very young free agents in 4-5 years.

    what’s working now won’t work then.”

    I agree – the business is cyclical and the equilibrium will move back in the other direction. People already think prospects are being relatively over valued compared to veterans. At some point its going to shift and people will start to try to get older players.

    That said – the other trend that’s going to counteract very young free agents from hitting the market is the rate at which young players are signing long term deals in their first or second years as pros.

    So with many of today’s top young players – they aren’t going to hit free agency that young as they’ll be signed to 6-8 year deals that will carry them to 28-29.

    This is why Evan Longoria’s contract was such a landmark and could go down as one of the more important contracts signed in recent mlb history. Its a real paradigm change.

    A lot was made of giving a guy an 8 yr deal before he’d played his first two weeks as a pro. But now if you go back and look at that deal – Tampa has signed Longoria to an unbelievably favorably contract – almost ridiculously so. It was a great deal for them and he’s not gong to be a free agent until he’s around 30-31.

  321. MoBoy(aka McLovin) July 25th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    DFox:

    I heard he is still upset about Heath Ledgers death.They were best frineds on the Dark Knight set and Bale expected to do all the promtion for The Dark Knight with Heath.

    I also heard he was nowhere to be found for six weeks right after Heaths death.And how he seems more sad and angry even on sets since Heaths death.

    SAd because the movie was awesome and Heath is the biggest reason why.I’m gonna watch it again today because he’s so good.

  322. NYY July 25th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    scott
    July 25th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
    How’s Holliday at Fenway? good #?

    3 Games 5/13 1 HR .385 AVG .429 .769 1.198

  323. Joe July 25th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    “Philly losing Burrell remember ? you think they won’t throw the cash in that firld can you imagine Manny’s numbers”

    Brandon, I live in the Philly area. They are a cheap organization. Also, they still have to pay big money to Howard and Hamels. The Phillies have a strict budget, Manny would throw it out of whack. It’s not their style.

  324. TurnTwo July 25th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    “Philly losing Burrell remember?”

    oh yeah. and imagine going Victorino, Rollins, Utley, Manny, Howard? whoa. thats sick.

  325. Tom July 25th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Thanks Mel and CB. He does seem like a big financial risk, but they always seem to throw money at guys who throw in the high nineties.

  326. MoBoy(aka McLovin) July 25th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Timothy Clougher :

    True but Bonds is a jerk regardless.He would be a great hitter but we already have a guy who is kinda of a jerk and can’t keep himself from saying and doing the wrong thing.

    He’s name is Alex Rodriguez.And Bonds is more of a DH guy.Posada and Damon and Matsui might need that position.

  327. TKinDC July 25th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    “This is why Evan Longoria’s contract was such a landmark and could go down as one of the more important contracts signed in recent mlb history. Its a real paradigm change.”

    I agree that this was an important precedent – it will also be interesting to see what happens as the contract is performed. It seems to me that there are a lot of potential problems.

    Injury is obviously an issue – but there could be major problems on the upside too where Longoria could overperform the pay and demand a new deal, sit-out, etc.

    The complications of all of these early long-term deals (Braun, Cano, Hanley Ramirez, etc.) should be interesting as they unwind.

  328. BigV July 25th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    I Live In Seattle

    Washburn is sooo overrated – he isn’t even liked here on a sub .500 club. He has NEVER won anything even remotely like a big game. the fact that he likes living here and would prefer to stay here = he would get eaten up alive with the NY pressure.

    Think Roy Smalley, THink Ed Whitson etc etc

    The reason the Yanks want him to drop the no trade clause is they only want to rent him for this year. He does not fit in their plans.

    Frankly the only reason they are interested in him – is they are tryin to remove the albatross in Igawa. CASH and the boys have no idea what to do with Igawa…..

    Igawa was a colossal mistake.

    I could see an Igawa and Ramiro Pena going for Washburn and Vidro. BTW- Vidro is worthless – he could be the least productive DH to ever play.

    He is the equivalent to IGAWA as a DH –

    THis would be a trade to remove garbage….

    BIG V

  329. Brandon (R.I.P. Pablo Martinez) (Johan HR count: *17) July 25th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    Tonight’s lineup

    Damon dh
    Jeter ss
    Abreu rf
    Rodriguez 3b
    Giambi 1b
    Cano 2b
    Cabrera cf
    Molina c
    Gardner lf
    Chamberlain p

  330. Nick in SF but now in Charlotte July 25th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    Hey, I love this Law & Order chat board! Anyone have a link for the Yankees board?

  331. nyyfaninlaaland July 25th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    JR – teams don’t want to sign Bonds because they don’t want the fan backlash. Simple as that. Has little to do with the clubhouse.

    And CB, it’s hard to imagine many legal ramifications / liability to the Yankees for signing Bonds. The issue is did Bonds use steroids at the time he testified he didn’t? The likelihood that Yankees players co-employed with him now now would have anything of direct, not hearsay value to say on the issue is rather limited. And I’m not sure but HIPAA regs might get in the way of any line of questioning for Bonds employers. But we’re all speculating way too much here.

    The PR ramifications on the other hand are huge.

  332. Fredo Corleone July 25th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    Ramirez in the Boston lineup for now hitting 4th. Pedroia leading off, Youkilis second, Ellsbury 9th.

  333. randy l July 25th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    “The Yankees don’t let their homegrown players walk away from the team. They’ve never operated like that and I doubt they ever will.”

    there has never been a time like this before in baseball. that’s why a team like cleveland that had the perfect model two years ago is temporarily out of touch with market conditions.

    cashman has never done a youth movement before. how does anyone including him know how he’s going to deal with free agents at 26 years old 4 years from now?

    the smart way to deal with this kind of newness, uncertainty, and changing conditions is to come up with solutions for multiple scenarios and be covered for all possibilities.

    that’s why the yankees need someone more qualified to run the yankees. cashman doesn’t have that kind of experience or ability.

  334. ANSKY July 25th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Wow.

    Thats all I can say.

  335. zgveritas July 25th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    CB,

    Don’t let your imagination carry you away.

    Your conjecture overlooks the fact that our Federal Court system has well established rules and standards regarding who may or may not testify as character witness. And that the Judge’s authority to manage the Court’s time allows him to disallow witnesses whose testimony would not meet the standard of relevance.

    Since Bond’s case does not rely on “character” issues, character witness are unlikely to be called (let alone allowed). He is charged with perjury and obstruction of justice. The Feds will make a factual case that he lied and obstructed. The prosecutors do not even need to demonstrate that Bond’s has used or purchased PEDs. Just that his actions prevented investigators from answering the questions they sought.

    As for Washburn – I would not even give up Igawa for his bloated contract. Who needs him…


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