Washburn still on the radar
-
- July
- 25
The Yankees seem to be trying to find a way to get Jarrod Washburn. A few things are at play:
If he wants to waive his no-trade rights, great. But they’re not going to extend him or pay him off to do that. They also want Seattle to pick up some of the money Washburn has remaining. That is likely flexible based on the quality of the prospects they trade.
* There is no evidence that the Yankees are pursuing a catcher. There are plenty of teams trying to get them to take a catcher. Big difference.
* The Yankees aren’t flat-out saying no to Barry Bonds because you can’t flat-out say no to anything. But it’s not happening.
* The lefty reliever market is being driven by Colorado and Pittsburgh. Both seem think they can get blue-chip prospects for those guys. They probably can’t.
This entry was posted
on Friday, July 25th, 2008 at 11:20 am by Peter Abraham.
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I don’t think the Yankees have a need for a catcher. If they are going to make any deals, I would like to see them get a starting pitcher or a corner outfielder.
Washburn for Igawa is a no brainer but Seattle will want more than that.
I would roll the dice on the bullpen as currently constructed with Melancon and Bruney.
A RH power corner bat is the only thing I would trade for. IPK would probably have to be sacrificed.
i heard melky or gardner in a deal with washburn and not igawa
id trade melky for washburn in a heart beat….id trade melky….think about it washburns avg and OBP isnt too far behind melkys
nooooooooooooo
right now Im livin good for the citaaayyy!!
The Cards and the Brew Crew are apparently desperate for a lefty reliever too, which does not help.
I think the Cards have led more of their games than any other team, but have choked away a ton of leads b/c of bad relief pitching.
Pittburg and Colorado are quite annoying with their requirements. No team is going to bite at their ridiculous demands.
In any event, i was never a huge fan of the Joba fistpumping and all. i felt it a bit more warranted as a relief pitcher, especially in a jam, but as a SP, it’s not necessary unless it’s like the 8th with runners on in a one run game and u get a big K to end the inning. BUT, tonight, he can fistpump the Sox to hell for all i care. fistpump each K i say, after that bum Papelbon and his middle-finger shirt and all his garbage during the ASB, fistpumping = necessary.
I’m luke warm on adding a starter. 4th and 5th might be able to be filled with guys like acaves or kennedy.
i’m very hopeful on a RH bat. i think that helps our most pressing need.
i’m against a LH reliever, at least if it costs us anything valuable. Pen hasn’t been the problem.
“think about it washburns avg and OBP isnt too far behind melkys”
so it should be higher than Gardner’s then.
Del,
You watching New Jack City?
walk away. Washburn’s a slight upgrade this year, and a nuisance next year.
you also don’t weaken CF and put it all in Brett Gardner’s hands to get Jarrod Washburn. Unless the small sample you’ve seen has been enough to convince you he really can man CF that much better than Melky until Austin Jackson can take over, if that ever does happen.
He sure hasn’t convinced me.
Washburn for Igawa or no deal.
OT, but did anyone notice that:
“The Colts will sign QB Jared Lorenzen Thursday, reports Adam Schefter.
The Hefty Lefty isn’t done yet! The Colts need another arm in camp with Peyton Manning out, but Lorenzen could have a chance to stick if they decide to carry three quarterbacks into the season. Profootballtalk reported Wednesday they were also going to sign Quinn Gray, and perhaps one of the two could make the team.”
Source: Rotoworld
I dont like washburn at all. Personally, Im a fan of Ponson over Washburn.
besides, washburn sounds like some type of std medication
You know what I love about the whole Barry Bonds storyline? It seems like the story is almost solely media generated. They keep bringing his name up, pushing and hoping and almost cheering the Yankees on, hoping they’ll bring in Bonds. And why? Because if the Yankees were ever crazy enough to do it, then the same media members could spend the rest of the season condemning the Yankees for signing him. The self-righteousness, shock and horror would be out of control.
ray…hahahahaha, no close…I was watching the chapelles show episode with tron.
i see the washburn deal happening with 2 minutes left before the deadline, i think seattle will cave in and take what they can get. cash money knows what to do, we’ve been winning with out him, he’ll push a hard bargain.
Del,
That was a funny episode of Chapelle’s show.
Is anybody optimistic with Kennedy given his last start in AAA. Do we think he has figured something out since going down or is he just better than most minor leaguers and not good enough for major leaguers.
No need for a C. Molina’s solid on D.
No blue chippers for a short-term lefty bullpen arm.
No Bonds. No freakin’ way. Just … no.
No Santana contract or big extension for Washburn. Just Igawa.
No word on any Tiexiera talks?
Skippy
The same media horde that would be bashing a Bonds/Yanks deal would be saying they were the ones that broke the story first.
They’re just taking a blind shot that it’s something that’ll materialize for them. The idiots.
Kennedy never had a problem at any level in the minors. he dominates minor league hitting. Thats why Im optimistic about him. I think he just got a little full of himself, hopefully this has humbled him and he will be fine.
Bonds will be a Yankee if we slip up because of offense in the BO-Sucks series.
No need for a C. Molina’s solid on D.
No blue chippers for a short-term lefty bullpen arm.
No Bonds. No freakin’ way. Just … no.
No Santana contract or big extension for Washburn. Just Igawa.
No word on any Tiexiera talks?
Molina is solid on D, but has little offense.
No Bonds? Who, then?
No blue-chippers for lefty bullpen? I’ll give you that one. I agree. But if you don’t sign Bonds and STILL want outfield help, that’s where the bluechippers are going to go.
Why even bring up Santana’s contract when talking about Washburn? That’s obviously not going to happen.
Why do you need Teixeira now? You already have a logjam at first with Giambi, Betemit, Sexson, Posada (if he comes back). You really want to get rid of A-type talent for a half-season rental that we don’t even have a place for?
The recent Washburn reports, including Jon Heyman’s latest, continue to say Seattle wants Melky AND Gardner. I haven’t seen any that say Melky OR Gardner. Do they seriously want both? Maybe, maybe it makes sense to trade one of them, but certainly not both. We need the other to play centerfield. And why does Seattle want both? So one can play when they trade Raul Ibanez?
Yanks don’t have a glaring need for a lefty so no sense in overpaying for a rental. Not like Myers could ever get Ortiz out when he was here so that goes to show its worthless having a lefty just to have one.
Eh, not sure if Washburn is worth being stuck with for a year but then again he can always be stashed in the pen next year and viola - there’s your lefty
What Cashman should be doing is trading from his hoard of minor league pitching prospects for some young up and coming positional prospects.
Give up a “better prospect” for him? He’s not even healthy?
A source told FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal that the Yankees have expressed “real interest” in Gerald Laird.
The source goes on to say that the Yankees aren’t looking at Miguel Olivo. Paul Lo Duca and Rod Barajas were also believed to be on their list. Laird is clearly the best player in the group, and since he’s not a free agent until after 2010, the Yankees would likely have to give up one of their better prospects (Jose Tabata? Dan McCutchen?) and a lesser guy to get him.
IPK kills me cause he’ll do great in AAA and then come up to the big show and stink it up. I was one of the early season believers and still wanna see him do well but would prefer the yanks go out and get washburn for the rotation. I would in no way give up gardner or melky as they fill important positions for our team down the stretch. Melky is our best outfielder and you cant deny gardners speed on the basepaths. our team finally looks alive our there and in now way do i want to see us give up 2 valuable assets for an issue that is not huge and could prob not be fixed from somewhere within….ipk? aceves? giese? hughes/wang?
Rasner is better than Washburn.
Quin Gray, is good.
Why Tex? You DFA Sexson because he costs nothing anyway. Hopefully Tex gets extended meaning you ditch Giambi at years end. Jorge goes under the knife this year and comes back as back-up 1b/dh next year until he can catch again. Betimit rides the bench. That’s why Tex.
spending 15 million on washburn sure makes me look stupid for saying the yankees should have signed livan in the winter.
but why buy batteries before the hurricane comes. it’s more fun paying more when everyone else rushes to the store to get them.
if Kennedy’s performance last night, raised his stock, then move him in a trade, for the right player:
Bradley
Salty
Bay?
Texeria
It does not have to be a 1 for 1. A combination of Kennedy, and other players (not named - Hughes/Jackson/Melancon/Montero) should bring back a player of value who can help us.
V
July 25th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Rasner is better than Washburn.
.
and you think that because ????
.
Rasner is NOT better than Washburn…do you REALLY need to see the numbers ???
.
Manny is out of the lineup today
Didn’t Kennedy basically throw a no hitter last night? I understand wanting ot make a deal before the deadline becaues Kennedy might not work out (again) but I think even if we land Washburn, Kennedy should have first crack at filling the #4 or 5 spot.
seattle can sit on Washbun this season, and next.
gardner and melky for washburn? LOL.
Good article, Pete. Re: the catcher situation, though, why are you so sure about the Yanks not going after a backstop? Do you really think that Cash and Joe are satisfied with Moeller as their backup catcher? What happens if Molina gets nicked up? They definitely need an insurance policy/backup/someone to split time with Molina, no? Ross for Cincy is a FA next year and is sitting for a team out of the race. He should be cheap. He’s a patient guy w/ a good OBP which is what Cash likes.
I would do the deal for Igawa. I’m not crazy about picking up the second year, but we can always trade him next year or bullpen him if necessary. No way I’d include Melky, tjo. I think that many people forget that he’s only 23. He was actually 10% better than an average replacement player (VORP) last year. He project to be a 20% guy by 2011. I’m frustrated by his season, too, but he’s not someone you just give away.
“spending 15 million on washburn sure makes me look stupid for saying the yankees should have signed livan in the winter.”
Hey, how have each of them been doing the last two months?
Also, Randy…which part of “the Yankees will only take him if there’s salary relief” did you not pick up on?
is manny definitely out of the lineup? isnt it a little earlier to send that signal out of boston? moose must be pissed he doesnt get a shot at redemption against boston
B. Stanley,
I agree why pay all that money when you have the potential answer in your own organization.
I think the Washburn stuff is just smoke. As I said yesterday he is not a significant upgrade over what they have now.
The Yankees would rather pay more for Washburn than give up prospects IMO. Not sure why they would give up Melky for salary relief. That has not been the Yankee way before and I don’t think it will be now. That rumor seems bogus.
tony massarotti/boston herald:
“Beckett, Wakefield, and Lester are boston’s 3 best pitchers”
he forgetting someone?
if we could get rid of igawa for washburn i would name my first child cashman
Pete brought up Igawa’s name. Sherman is reporting that rumor untrue. Seattle seems to want more and I don’t blame them but Melky and Gardner for Washburn should be a no deal.
“moose must be pissed he doesnt get a shot at redemption against boston”
he did last time 6 inning no runs
This “1st and 10″ show on ESPN is unbearable with that idiot Skip Bayless on here.
If this guy can be on TV and talk nonsense about sports, why can’t I? Seriously, this guy is making no sense.
“he forgetting someone?”
Nope. Matsuzaka, despite his low ERA, is actually not really pitching that well. He walks a mindblowing number of guys. His K rate has dropped from last year as well. He’s constantly walking a tightrope, regularly throws a zillion pitches to get through 6 innings, and everyone’s waiting for the other shoe to drop.
there’s either salary relief or they take igawa, either way its not going to cost them $15M to get washburn.
someone mentioned above that heyman’s column this am says melky and gardner but he failed to note that heyman said that’s a non-starter for the yankees.
i say igawa and gardner for wasburn
or garder for washburn and you give us at least half his remaing salary.
Miggs-
He is used solely because nobody else is willing to say the crap that comes out of his mouth. he just stirs the pot. don’t take anything he says seriously.
Team Rasner.
He’s given up 3 ER or fewer in 9 of 13 starts. I don’t think he or Ponson have pitched their way out of the rotation as of yet.
Johny Estrada was DFA’d yeterday by the Nationals.
He could be a decent pickup for NY.
Gardner AND Cabrera for Washburn?? No Thanks…
Washburn should be a salary dump for the M’s. Igawa and 2nd tier prospect SHOULD be enough for him.
If I were Cashman:
I would sign Bonds, let him play at AAA, 2 games if he’s his old self bring him up. I wouldn’t trade anyone.
Go after FA in the off season.
Teams want to much for there so-so players we don’t need them. Sign Bonds and see what happens.
“Also, Randy…which part of “the Yankees will only take him if there’s salary relief” did you not pick up on?”
whozat-
which part of paying more because of poor planning did you not pick up on?
“Nope. Matsuzaka, despite his low ERA, is actually not really pitching that well”
nope and all those wins are bogus stats too.
lets see, wins and era don’t matter.
that’s right from sabermetric 101.
the problem is that they play the game on the field where wins matter.
I say forget Washed up, sign Bonds, use the kids.
Why Tex? You DFA Sexson because he costs nothing anyway. Hopefully Tex gets extended meaning you ditch Giambi at years end. Jorge goes under the knife this year and comes back as back-up 1b/dh next year until he can catch again. Betimit rides the bench. That’s why Tex.
You want to trade a ton of young prospects (most notably A-level prospects) for a guy who’s a free agent in 4 months? On top of that you want to forcefully guarantee Giambi won’t return next year (why not let this whole thing play out?), then claim that Posada will 100% be taking surgery even though he says he’s going to try and play through the injury? I don’t mind Betemit riding the pine, but you want to make all these changes for someone the Yankees don’t need right now? The offense (when they produce) is amazing. Besides being light off the bench, there’s no need for a blockbuster trade for a guy we have an amazing chance of signing in the off-season anyway.
No team will take Kennedy as a centerpiece of any deal for someone like Texiera
His trade value is low until he comes back and performs at the Major League level
Washburn is way better than Rasner
He may not be $9 million dollars better but he is better than Rasner
Signing Bonds we have nothing to lose.
Going after average talent we may give up to much, no one knows which prospect will be a stud.
We definately do not need anymore Seattle personnel, except Ichiro but that’s not gonna happen.
J E T S
interested in Favre. Have received permission from GB to talk to him.
per Chris Mortenson
!!!!!!
“If he wants to waive his no-trade rights, great. But they’re not going to extend him or pay him off to do that.”
Tell him he can still get peanuts at Yankee Stadium!!
If your gonna trade what you think are “blue chip” prospects you need to land someone like a Beckett, just like Theo did with Ramirez.
Not these rag a tag arms.
I say blue chips leave land someone of importance.
I love that people say worse comes to worse after they get Washburn, they can trade him next year. For what? If no one wants him in the middle of a pennant race, no one is going to want him next year either. They’ll be stuck with him. I really don’t see the point of this one, even if it’s just for Igawa. At least Igawa is stuck at AAA and you don’t have to pitch him.
On second thought, maybe the could get Igawa back next year. That’d make everyone here happy.
Colorado and Pittsburgh are going to see the lefty market bottom out from under them if they keep the asking price so high.
My guess is that everyone will try and get fuentes and marte, but then colorado and pitt will send them to the red sox for c-level prospects a la gagne.
They didn’t trade any of these prospect for CC, why would all of the sudden they let them go for Washed up.
I don’t think you will see any real move unless we struggle in this series.
I say we win 2 out 3..just watch..If we get close the trade market will be on fire next week for TB and B..
“lets see, wins and era don’t matter.
that’s right from sabermetric 101.
the problem is that they play the game on the field where wins matter.”
That much is true, but his WHIP is high and his inn/start are low. The numbers behind the numbers suggest this won’t hold up and he hurts their pen.
From an anecdotal point of view, he seems to me that he strongly benefits from lineups that don’t walk counts (M’s).
or work counts, either way…
Dicey K, gotta love it.
I’m sorry I’m not a Bonds lover, but it would be the better baseball move to sign him and send him to AAA, to see what he has.
You give up nothing and keep him away from you competition.
BREAKING NEWS: The Yankees sign Bret Favre to a one-year, $50 million dollar deal.
I had a strange dream last night, there was someone new CF, but he had a mask on, but man was he an improvement. Then I awoke.
Stranger things have happened, like Michael Jordan playing MLB.
Just wondering didn’t we have Canseco on one of our Championship teams?
Yes……..
Brent
If you want OF help, Bonds is not your man. He’s 44 years old and no longer the speed demon he was in the heart of his career.
With Tiexiera, you get the solid middle-of-the-order switch hitter and the 1B solved all in one.
If you were to get Bonds, Sexson & Giambi are already big slow DH types. What would you do with them if you get Bonds? Probably get rid of them somehow, correct? Or would you go with 3 big DH types only one of which (Sexson) might be useful at 1B although I don’t know much about his D.
Well if you get Tiexiera, you’d get rid of them too. But replace them with someone who can field AND hit, not for someone old & slow but with a big list of individual accomplishments left over from when he used to be a ballplayer.
Keep one of the existing big slow DH’s? Sure what the heck … one extra bat off the bench if there’s no more useful player to be had. But get what you really need first.
Just wondering didn’t we have Strawberry, Gooden, Clemens on one of our Championship teams?
Yes……..
I wonder what kind of pitches Favre throws. Sinkers? Sliders? or mainly just Fastballs?
bonds? not happening. why do we need another dh that comes with so much baggage. a baseball cap probably cant fit around his egghead
AND…HE’S….HE’S IN THE STADIUM…..BRET FARVREVEREERVVE IS IN THE OWNERS BOOTH!!!OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS!!!!!
All the people every is saying get, haven’t tried to perform in NY, RJ struggled in NY.
So Bay, Washed up, Holliday, Tex..you want to actually trade some good prospects for them why?
Vasquez struggled in NY.
Bay could be another Tartabull if he came to NY.
Hahaha Brett Farve probably swings a better bat than some people…can he play in the outfield?
I want to believe that it could never happen in a million years, but if the Yankees get desperate and bring Bonds to New York, I will boycott the rest of the season and for as long as he is with the team.
I just can’t see them taking on that nighmare that is Bonds.
Keep the Kids, they understand the system.
Bonds is the least expensive, best scenario for us.
Yanks aren’t gonna bring in an indicted player.
Favre for Cy Young!
“Just wondering didn’t we have Canseco on one of our Championship teams?
Yes……..”
Do you understand why he was on the team to begin with?
Christine,
A nightmare was watching them in the early 70’s and the 80’s that was a nightmare, but they will always be my Team. good luck with your boycott, you can watch the Mets.
Why the heck would you give up two of your outfielders and have only one non-part-time OFer left for a crappy starter?!?!?
Brett Farve could be of use to tackle Youkillus in case a situation arises…I’m not sure if QB’s know how to tackle but football players do.
Jorge Steinbrenner:
Don’t start making excuses now.
Doesn’t matter he was there.
Emma, I’d pay extra to see that.
Estrada is a no brainer for backup catcher
used to be a great average hitter until injuries of late…worth a shot and costs little to nothing for his services
“You give up nothing and keep him away from you competition.”
That’s the great thing. The competition doesn’t even want him.
If they ever signed the face of steroids.. I think I’d have to root for Tampa Bay or the Mets or someone else.
Just playing devils advocate, but bonds is accused of using PED’s. We have a guy now convicted of fighting a judge. Personally I don’t care about either, I’m interested in performance and to a lesser extent, clubhouse impact, but if we have a problem with bonds shouldn’t we with gimabi and petette. they are no better.
I can’t believe Gardner and Cabrera for Washburn is even being considered by the Yankee front office.
This is the same team that didn’t want to part with Melky in the Johan package because it would leave them w/o a CF and now we’re supposed to believe they are considering sending all their CF for a 4/5 starter?
It’s B.S.
I would like us to get Washburn, but only if we’re shedding Igawa in the deal.
If we have to trade one of the young OF in the majors for Washburn I would back off. If we had to trade both of them, I would hang up the phone.
Seattle clearly doesn’t want to keep Washburn and pay him. That’s the only reason he’s on our radar as we don’t make equal talent trades here in NY usually. We take your financial problem off your hand and you take our flotsam and jetsam and Igawa.
farve should know how to takle: 288 INT’s!
Forgot - also lying to federal investigators.
What is the problem with Bonds? The Yankees have had more than their share of degenerates on the team. They’ve had known cocaine users, 2 known steroid users, and known alcoholics who drive drunk. What is the problem that people have with Bonds? I just don’t get it.
They also had an owner who was suspended for having his own player spied upon.
This is not the Mormon Yankees. It’s the New York Yankees. It’s not exactly the model franchise for morality.
Please, somebody give me a logical explanation on why Bonds would be so bad for the team.
Timothy Clougher:
Randy Johnson struggled but he did win 34 games.If the Yankees were hitting we wouldn’t need pitching.THat why WAng wins 19 games two years in a row.He’s great but on a crappy team he wouldn’t win that many games.
William Buckner:
Thanks William that is my point, Giambi, Pettite, Canseco..the list is endless..why all of the sudden the stance on Bonds? He is a good baseball player, there are many faces of the Roid Era Maguire, Sosa, Bonds, Palmero, Giambi, Pettite, Clemens….
g.love
from jon heyman this am:
“Seattle is asking now for Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner, a non-starter for the Yankees.
doesnt sound like it’s being considered to me.
raymagnetic:
I agree totally don’t forget who got it started the Womanizer, while married “Babe”.
Now the Yanks have some Moral code……..please.
Cash should tell Seattle it is Kei Igawa or forget it. We are doing you a favor by taking your bloated contract. Say heck no to giving up both Melky and Brett. Um who would play center?
To Jarrod, no bonus for waving no trade. Being in contension is enough.
Timothy-
There is one difference between all of the players you mention and Bonds.Bonds is under federal indictment.
I personally am not claiming that the Yankees have ever shyed away from players that might have some personal issues and they are not perfect people however Giambi was already signed when he had to appear in front of the grand jury and from all accounts he told the truth elsewise he would be under indictment as well.
it is not the use of drugs that is the issue here.
…Tejada…
Bonds: positive he’s friends with, Jeter, A-rod.
what better hitter for the young guys to watch.
“Cash should tell Seattle it is Kei Igawa or forget it. We are doing you a favor by taking your bloated contract.”
the problem is that they apparently arent the only team willing to take on the contract. so now, the mariners have a little room to negotiate a bit.
Gayle:
He is still innocent till his day in court.
Martha Stewart was indicted and convicted. I guess that leaves her out of the conversation for helping the Yankees as well.
lolololololololololololololololololololol
“There is one difference between all of the players you mention and Bonds.Bonds is under federal indictment.”
Who cares? Why does it even matter? Until he’s been found guilty he’s innocent.
Cabrera & Gardner? Throw Igawa in for free.
Folks the lying part hasn’t been proven yet.
That’s why he has a court date.
Wouldn’t you want the benefit of being innocent till proven guilty, please afford him the same courtesy.
If someone else wants Washburn, let them have him. I just don’t see why the only moves the Yankees are making are picking from the refuse of other teams. How exactly does that make the team better, when all they are getting are those players that losing teams are throwing away or wanting to dump?
Its not like Washburn has a great record. Leave Rasner in the rotation at that point, he won’t do worse than Washburn and it saves some big bucks.
totally agree about the yankees not being the mormon yankees. we’ve had just about every kind of scoundrel on this team and won. and we’ve had players who couldnt get along with the press, no problem there either.
but bonds is a lousy teammate. guys who play with him hate him, he causes dissension in the clubhouse. THATS why i dont want him on this team.
Hell give them Igawa and Gardner. Have them eat some of Washburns contract. Throw in Britton just so Britton can finally see the majors. Done deal. Mr. Podsednic jr. is a 4 th outfielder at best.
“Why the heck would you give up two of your outfielders and have only one non-part-time OFer left for a crappy starter?!?!?”
that Justin Christian is a handsome dude, i guess.
Washburn would be a good pickup only if the Yankees don’t have to pay much for him. Melky and Gardner? No thanks.
I’m sure Washburn would upgrade the team but by how much? What added benefit will he be over Ponson and Rasner? Probably a little but would it be worth giving up Gardner and Melky. HEELLLL no
yes he is innocent until proven guilty but there is a lot that goes on when you are under indictment. That kind of circus and distraction this team doesnt need there are already enough. Lets say they sign him and come September he has to leave the team for 3 days for depositions or he has to make an appearance in San Francisco.
When the feds are after you there is not a lot of control you have that is what I am talking about.
Whether the Yanks act upon Bonds or not, as a US citizen our constitution says innocent till proven guilty.
Not proven by tabloid readings.
“I just don’t see why the only moves the Yankees are making are picking from the refuse of other teams.”
because it doesnt cost Cashman any high level prospects.
“but bonds is a lousy teammate. guys who play with him hate him, he causes dissension in the clubhouse. THATS why i dont want him on this team.”
For some reason I don’t recall anyone not liking him when he was hitting 70 HR’s and breaking the single season HR record. He’s friends with Jeter and A-Rod that’s really all that matters.
All that lousy teammate talk is straight nonsense and it’s a non-sensical reason for not wanting him on the team. San Francisco is a horrible team and they only had Bonds to focus on. He wouldn’t be the sole focal point in NY.
Ponson is also supposed to be a horrible teammate yet he’s been in NY TWICE !
“Jorge Steinbrenner:
Don’t start making excuses now.
Doesn’t matter he was there.”
We blocked a waiver deal and wound up being stuck with him. How is this making an excuse? Have you even seen me comment on the moral fiber of Barry Bonds on here?
I don’t want him because I don’t think he’s going to contribute a lick to our team, not because of the supposed moral ambiguities of PEDs he may or may not have taken. I could care less about that.
gayle:
No depositions, his court date is not until Spring.
You never know he may want to the opportunity (a second chance if you will) to change his image..NY is the place to do that. That why I love NY so much..
“I don’t want him because I don’t think he’s going to contribute a lick to our team, not because of the supposed moral ambiguities of PEDs he may or may not have taken. I could care less about that.”
He was one of the most productive hitters in all of MLB last year. How could he not help?
we got 10 games with the angels.. thats our season right there
Jorge Steinbrenner:
When we blocked the waiver deal, we didn’t have any idea of the ramifications?
thank you
timothy, you seem like a good guy and all, but people have already made up their mind on the Bonds debate. by coming in here and spouting off about the hypocrisy of the yankee organization, and throwing out your support of bonds, you arent going to change anyone’s mind, and prob really just annoy people after a while.
Our season isn’t made in the games we play with the Angels.
Our season is the games we have left with Boston and Tampa.
Jorge Steinbrenner:
Jorge you just made my point, but I do respect how you feel about Bonds.
“we got 10 games with the angels.. thats our season right there”
No it isn’t.
TurnTwo, if you take garbage, you get garbage. Fine, if you want to keep all your prospects then you won’t get any good deals done and your team is stagnant.
The Yankees won’t be able to use every piece they have in the minors now. A year from now some will be lost anyway.
Unless you think Sexson, “who tears up lefty pitchers” has been doing a great job. And that Ponson should be moved UP in the rotation because of how effective he is.
I get plugging holes, but don’t take on crap because you want to hold on to some unproven players then bemoan not making the post season.
With the whole corner OF problem, I hear Bernie Williams is looking for a job
Mr Buckner -
a 1.36 WHIP isn’t overly high. Matsuzaka’s BB rate is horrible, but his hit rate is quite low. Of course it’s harder to hit a guy that doesn’t throw strikes.
I’m not one to give all credit for wins to a starter - run support is a very telling stat there - and constantly going 6 or less isn’t good. So I can’t agree with Randy on that. But his ERA is quite good, and that says something. What’s strange is the large reduction in his HR rate, despite being a flyball pitcher. Must be getting a lot more popups. I think he might try to be too fine, playing around the edges of the zone instead of challenging hitters more. Or maybe he isn’t confident in his stuff. I’d kind of like to hear Randy’s comments on that.
Maybe Carl Pavano can pitch?
But wouldn’t it be even more awesome to see him catch?!?! Getting run over time after time, again and again! Going airborne into the backstop when big guys bomb into him trying to score on close plays. Entertainment and torture, together at last!
from wiki:
“Although the Constitution of the United States does not cite it explicitly, presumption of innocence is widely held to follow from the 5th, 6th and 14th amendments. See also Coffin v. United States
“TurnTwo, if you take garbage, you get garbage. Fine, if you want to keep all your prospects then you won’t get any good deals done and your team is stagnant.”
look, i dont disagree with you, i’m just explaining why the Yankees do it. dont shoot the messenger.
one thing i’m looking forward to seeing tonight is the AL east standings on the fenway scoreboard. the rays and soxs are tied for first, with the rays technically ahead due to percentage. i think the redxos will have their team listed as being in first, however. they’ve done it before…
“then bemoan not making the post season.”
I don’t think Cashman plans to.
TurnTwo:
I respect how you feel, but I signed up for this Blog just like you. If you want me voted out then, that is your right.
By the way the country has free speech as well, so if I annoy you don’t read it.
I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind this is a baseball blog, I feel as a Yankee fan, Bonds would be the best move in not selling the “Farm”
Just don’t like the double standard about the “Yankee Image”
The difference between Bonds and the likes of Giambi, Clemens, Pettitte, Conseco is simple…
Bonds has been indicted for lieing under oath to the courts about using steroids. He is now known and labeled as a steroid user!
The other guys using PED’s and/or steroids were not known about at the time of their respective signings/trades. Does that make it better? No, but…
…to knowingly sign a steroid user would be a disprace to the Yankee franchise and everything they have accomplished. Not to mention the attitude he brings with him. He is a clubhouse cancer who is a selfish pig.
Fleas - y
ou dreamed Rip Hamilton was palying CF for the Yankees? That is weird.
“we got 10 games with the angels.. thats our season right there”
Mike Francesca was just saying that because of the games left with the Angels, the Yanks will win the WC, not the division and Boston will win the AL East.
“But his ERA is quite good, and that says something.”
When your ERA disagrees with your peripherals by THAT much, it means you’re probably getting very lucky. Like Ponson, for example. His WHIP is HORRENDOUS, but his ERA is solid. Matsuzaka’s WHIP is middling (especially his walks), but his ERA is sparkling. His K rate has also decreased from last season. If nothing changes, his ERA is likely to be middling from here on out.
“to knowingly sign a steroid user would be a disprace to the Yankee franchise and everything they have accomplished.”
The Sox traded for Gagne. The Mitchell report contains documented evidence that Theo and his talent evaluators KNEW that Gagne had used PEDs in the past.
Did that disgrace their franchise?
“to knowingly sign a steroid user would be a disprace to the Yankee franchise and everything they have accomplished.”
But to sign a guy who knowingly drives drunk is better? That’s just idiotic to me. Driving drunk kills other people, steroid usage only hurts the user.
“Mike Francesca was just saying”
And that wasn’t reason enough to stop listening?
I just saw Jose Molina in the Prudential Center Mall in Boston
One of my co-workers saw Mariano Rivera but I missed him
Also Tim McCarver is having a book signing at the Barnes and Noble…. there was one person there it was kind of funny
Somebody:
Instead of trading for Washed-up, why not bring up a different youngster not named Kennedy or Hughes and go with that?
Why not give Jackson a shot now?
There may be one other reason why the Yankees won’t sign Bonds aside from him being under federal indictment, being 44 years old, not having played in a year and a half, creating a circus atmosphere, his link to PED’s, and being an all around a-hole…
He jerked the Yankees around the last time he became a free agent, and signed with the Giants.
Just food for thought.
While I don’t know if Bonds can help or not, I think that we forget we have had Strawberry and Gooden on this team. They were the “bad boys” of baseball in the late nineties and yet we still took a shot on them. I personally don’t think that we’ll take Bonds(and I don’t know if I could really stomach it either). But the Yanks will make the best moves they think are possible to help this team, and if that means signing the *, then so they will do it.
fancesca: very funny man.
“Joba is not the yankees ace. He is 2-3. He is only 2-3. The ace of the yankees is Pettitte.
“Who cares? Why does it even matter? Until he’s been found guilty he’s innocent.”
If Bonds were to play for the yankees and I was his lawyer I would 100% subpoena at least Jeter, ARod and Mariano to testify at his trial.
I’d put them on the stand and then ask them to testify as to whether they saw Bonds ever use any PED’s or whether they had ever seen Bonds use PEDs or whether he’d discussed using them with them while he was their teammates.
The yankees have some of the most visible, well known people in the country playing for him. If you could shoe horn Jeter into being a de facto character witness for your defense you’d do it.
And then the prosecution is going to try to hammer Jeter and ARod regarding their character to undermine their testimony. For instance, if ARod has to testify the prosecution could well want to start asking him questions about whether or not he’s used PED’s and then they’ll start asking him about whether or not he’s seen other players on the Yankees use PEDs and then they are going to start asking him about his personal life to establish whether he has ever demonstrated any pattern of not being honest or trustworthy, say cheating on his wife.
Doesn’t matter whether or not they were teammates for long or whether they were teammates in 2008 instead of 1998. Getting Derrick Jeter up on the stands and having him say no I’ve never seen Barry use PED’s is only going to help bonds. Same for ARod and Mariano.
Then if I were his lawyer I would subpeona Hank and Hal Steinbrenner, Brian Cashman and Randy Levine and ask them the same questions - only more pointedly. Why would you ever hire this man at the age of 44? Did you believe he was using PED’s now or in the past? Do you have any first hand knowledge of this? If you had any beliefs that his performance was altered by PED’s why would you hire him to play at such an advanced age?
This is a federal indictment. He is going to go to federal court. I’m not sure if people are fully weighing the massive implications this would have on the yankees as an organization and a business. Having any kind of professional relationship with Bonds would open them up to a black box of liabilities.
The Feds hardly ever lose when they take a case to trial. The conviction rate is astronomical. If Bonds goes to trial - and it looks like he’ll fight this all the way to court - he and his lawyers will use whatever legal strategy required to get him off. Having professional baseball players - men considered role models in society (rightly or wrongly) testifying on his behalf is going to be something they will do.
Do you seriously think the yankees haven’t discussed Bonds with their own lawyers? Could that have something to do with it?
This has nothing to do with PED’s or not or innocent until presumed guilty. This has to do with a business that has to very carefully weight the tremendous risks in potential liability and public embarrassment that may occur in relation to their voluntary employment of someone indicted on serous federal charges.
They sign bonds - they open themselves up to a tremendous amount of potential liability - legal, public relations and otherwise.
Barry Bonds is still available…why? Nobody wants him and his antics.
There are plenty of teams out there trying to remain in contention or are on the edge of being buyers/sellers who are taking a pass on him.
There is a reason for that and nobody can use the money excuse. He will play for a prorated league minimum salary.
It is mind boggling how Francesa can consistently be so wrong yet so sure of himself at the same time.
I think he discounts how bad the Red Sox bullpen is as well. If we can get back to working over those starters and getting them out of the game after 6, we can beat that bullpen.
Good luck doing that against ours.
CB: Great Post.
Thank you CB you have stated way better than I have been able to do today exactly what I was saying.
Whozat
Again, at the time of his trade the Mitchell Report was not out. Nobody knew for sure (except maybe Mitchell whispering in Theo’s ear) at the time.
If he came out and admitted it (which he did eventually), the Sox still can play the card that they had no idea he was a user.
Besides, the disgraceful thing about the trade for that franchise was he actually made their team worse. and broke up their bullpen chemistry.
CB:
I agree with you, but baseball wise, he would be the best move.
PS If Bonds goes down in Spring, there will be many ramifications in Baseball as a whole.
“By the way the country has free speech as well, so if I annoy you don’t read it.”
oh, i couldnt care less. im just making sure you realize people can turn on you real quick here… and generally, an angry board doesnt make for a very fun board to be on for the rest of us.
and fwiw, if it were 3 weeks ago, id agree, sign Bonds.
but it doesnt work now.
CB,
Andy Pettitte is the only Yankee that has been subpoenaed in the whole Clemens thing. I understand that wasn’t a federal case but everyone you mentioned could have been subpoenaed to testify in the Clemens thing as well and yet it didn’t happen.
I highly doubt it would happen if Bonds were to play for the Yankees for 2 months at the end of his career. Bonds is going on trial for something he allegedly did years ago, I don’t see how bringing in witnesses from the Yankees could aid the defense lawyer or the prosecution.
“Why not give Jackson a shot now?”
Steven Jackson?? When was the last time he started a game?
Whoever thinks the Yankees would spend more than a second contemplating moving a Melky for Washburn straight up, much less adding in Gardner, I have some land available in ARI, ocean-front, prime real estate, good price etc…
That would be an absolute joke of an offer and more likely some media-originated rumor.
The Yankees won’t trade away all their current CF options for a LH SP that offers little if any incremental value over Raz or PONS.
Now, Igawa + Gardner for Washburn would be tempting but I still don’t do that trade. I just don’t believe Washburn is going to be money and still wouldn’t unload Gardner for a bum like Washburn.
Re-Dice K - My point earlier was and is I believe he has not pitched as well as wins and era indicate. I also believe he is a burden to his pen, which doesn’t need to be exploited. He’s been good, but no way as great as was hyped before he came.
Re Bonds - I think it’s dangerous to paint a guy in a light because he don’t like him when he is no different then guys you do. And personally I don’t like him, but not for PED, for acting joyless when you get paid millions to play a sport I love.
josh: I believe we match-up better, vs the angels this year.
a catcher who can slow down a running game.
a solid bullpen (at least, for now).
a manager who may be able to match Scoscia.
But to sign a guy who knowingly drives drunk is better? That’s just idiotic to me. Driving drunk kills other people, steroid usage only hurts the user.
I didn’t realize that alcohol enhanced performance on the field.
You may also want to educate yourself on the negative effects of steroid use. Death can occur if Road Rage and Roid Rage meet.
“I don’t see how bringing in witnesses from the Yankees could aid the defense lawyer or the prosecution.”
Did you not read the whole message? Court cases aren’t about the truth. They are about creating a perception. Just because none of those guys would know ANYTHING about Bonds’ use back in 1998 doesn’t mean that the defense wouldn’t try to call those dudes as character witnesses.
Of course this is moot. He’s done, the yankees nor anyone else are signing him. And I do believe there is collusion there.
“I didn’t realize that alcohol enhanced performance on the field.
You may also want to educate yourself on the negative effects of steroid use. Death can occur if Road Rage and Roid Rage meet.”
Are you really comparing the effects of driving intoxicated with road rage and roid rage?
“You may also want to educate yourself on the negative effects of steroid use. Death can occur if Road Rage and Roid Rage meet.”
Yes. I’m sure that happens nearly as often as drunk driving.
You have utterly no idea how jealous of you I just became.
Seriously.
Two of my favorite yankees–Rivera and Molina.
Like. Seriously, I’m thinking of getting in my car to drive straight up to Boston….uh, yeah. I’m such a fangirl.
I hope Girardi moves Cano up the order, it’s not great having Melky bat right after the sizzling Cano.
E-man, great point.
by that logic the ace of the Yankee staff is Mussina.
Maybe not the last sentence but great point otherwise.
“Did you not read the whole message? Court cases aren’t about the truth. They are about creating a perception. Just because none of those guys would know ANYTHING about Bonds’ use back in 1998 doesn’t mean that the defense wouldn’t try to call those dudes as character witnesses.”
Actually I did read the whole message. My point is all of those guys could have been brought in to testify about Clemens and yet none of them were.
I doubt highly they would be brought in for Bonds.
CB - I agree on the count that Yankees would be witnesses (which I would not like). I disagree on the questions ARod would receive. The witness is not on trial.
“Please, somebody give me a logical explanation on why Bonds would be so bad for the team.”
raymagnetic-
i have no problem if he can get in shape quick enough. i know people say he can, but i wonder about that. clemens was not the horse he was expected last year. bonds may have had help last year that he doesn’t dare use this year.
bonds hasn’t said anything has he? don’t we have to know what he thinks about it?
“Mike Francesca was just saying”
And that wasn’t reason enough to stop listening?
whozat-
using that logic , why are you reading this comment?
you surely don’t only listen or read who you agree with.
fastball right down the middle:
from your point of view,who’d dumber? me or francesca.
And that wasn’t reason enough to stop listening?
“I doubt highly they would be brought in for Bonds.”
Bonds is facing criminal charges. Clemens is involved in a civil suit. Bonds’ lawyers need to create a reasonable doubt to keep him out of jail. It’s a whole different ballgame.
TurnTwo:
Thanks, no hard feelings here.
I just want what everybody else in here wants. I like to see them win, Jeter, Pettite, Mo aren’t getting any younger.
All the trades talked about, don’t help them out.
I would rather stand pat, and not make a move.
I truely think we have enough right now to win the division.
“The witness is not on trial.”
But they can still try to attack his credibility.
“from your point of view,who’d dumber? me or francesca.”
Francesa. At least your points of view are internally consistent with one another, and you’re not willfully uninformed.
The only bat, that I know could produce, I won’t say his name again. you know…
“who’s dumber?” lol
Rebecca Molina is pretty big in person
I also search and searched for Rivera but I couldn’t find
I was very upset
Absolutely we have enough to to win the division. Our offense needs to stay awake and Cano is doing a great job extending the lineup.
Melky needs to get a little better at the plate and start driving some balls into the gaps.
If the pitching can keep up it’s great work and the offense stays on this course of the past week, we will all be very happy in October.
JR - Labeled, not known. An indictment is suspicion of a crime, not proof of it. Not saying Bonds is innocent, but he isn’t guilty either.
Look this is all a big to do because most people just don’t like Barry. And he hasn’t gone at all out of his way to change that. I suspect he has done steroids - but that doesn’t explain his success. Frankly the impact of steroids is overrated. Good players that take them do well. Bad players that take take them don’t. It’s not a thing ideally suited to increase performance in baseball. Giambi didn’t suddenly start hitting 60 HR’s - Bonds performance is largely the result of his own skill and hard work. Steroids have provided perhaps a marginal improvement to those who took them. And those who did likely did so in tandem with increased workouts that may have helped even more. He’s been drug tested for the last few years, hasn’t failed, and he was still putting up huge OPS numbers.
You should check out this site for some balance on this issue:
www.steroids-and-baseball.com
That said, steroid use was and is illegal if not prescribed for specific medical conditions. So their use otherwise is a crime. Personally I like Barry Bonds more than the average joe from what I’ve seen. I recognize that he’s more than a bit spoiled and petulant. But anybody who’s spent many of his Christmases with Robin Williams has to either have a sense of humor or something positive about his personality. Or has drug or drinking problems.
Let’s remember people - here in the US it’s still innocent until proven guilty. Indictment is not conviction, and high profile indictments have fallen more than once - lawyers want to make splashes sometimes too. But they also don’t want to bring weak cases.
If you don’t want him on the Yanks, that’s your prerogative. I think he’d still be very useful offensively. Don’t know if all the hubbub would be worth it though. I do find it strange that the level of animosity towards him is so much higher than that directed at Mark McGwire. But Barry’s never been the warm and fuzzy type.
Someone else-
a witness’s credibility is ALWAYS on trial. take it from a guy that has passed the bar. witnesses are half the reason cases r lost, cause their credibility goes to shreds whenthe past is brought up.
““But his ERA is quite good, and that says something.”
When your ERA disagrees with your peripherals by THAT much, it means you’re probably getting very lucky. Like Ponson, for example. His WHIP is HORRENDOUS, but his ERA is solid. Matsuzaka’s WHIP is middling (especially his walks), but his ERA is sparkling. His K rate has also decreased from last season. If nothing changes, his ERA is likely to be middling from here on out.”
I disagree. There’s ONE THING Ponson and Matsuzaka have in common, that prevents runs from scoring, despite a lot of baserunners, and unspectacular K rates.
Matsuzaka: HR/9: 0.47; Opponent’s ISO: 0.103
Ponson: HR/9: 0.69; Opponent’s ISO: 0.132
In addition, Ponson has this going for him: GO/AO: 1.93
Those are all extraordinary numbers. Matsuzaka walks a lot, but doesn’t give up a lot of hits, and what hits he does give up, aren’t hit hard.
Ponson gives up a lot of groundballs. Some are hits, some are outs.
Both allow a lot of baserunners, but there’s a clear reason why those baserunners have difficulty scoring.
“I just want what everybody else in here wants. I like to see them win, Jeter, Pettite, Mo aren’t getting any younger.”
sometimes, i actually wonder if fans here on the board actually want the yankees to win more than see the yankees prospects develop and play.
CB:
I think that you make a goog point, but I think you are going a bit too far with “if you were his lawyer” stuff. Remember his lawyer would only want people who are going to testify to help Bonds. Being his teammate for only two months would not be a strong enough sample to help prove that Barry is not a lier. All it would do is prove that he is not stupid enough to use PEDs while he has been indicted. How would that, in the mind a a jury, prove that he didn’t take steroids 5-10 years ago. Any “character” whitnesses that would be called would be guys who played with him during the period in question. Finally, his lawyer would know what the feds would do and what questions to ask, so he would only pick whitnesses he thinks would really help Bonds. A-Rod would not be someone who fits this category for the reasons you listed. The front office guys only would have one thing to say “we felt that he was the best available option to help our team win.” That is all they need to say and that will end the questions for them.
Also, the feds evidence is blood that tested positive for steriods, if I am not mistaken. He said that he didn’t do steriods, the blood evidence says he did. His lawyer needs to find ways to get undermind that evidence. Unreliable character whitnesses are not something that his lawyer will be focusing on, or at least it shouldn’t be.
Just my two cents. But hey who really knows!
matsuzaka’s HR/9 AND HR/F are both at an all time low for his career, and a couple standard dev’s below average.
He also suddenly became fairly unhittable. I am almost positive its because he is so wild, but wild out of the zone, that he isn’t grooving anything. I also think this won’t last.
We’re all guessing with who might or might not be called to testify in a federal criminal trial involving Bonds. The only thing I can say is no one should ever doubt the lengths that a lawyer will go to to have his client escape jail time. They would subpoena Mother Teresa if they thought it would help their case.
And trials absolutely have nothing to do with truth. Only perception in a juror’s mind. So anything and everything would be fair game.
“I disagree. There’s ONE THING Ponson and Matsuzaka have in common, that prevents runs from scoring, despite a lot of baserunners, and unspectacular K rates.”
Matsuzaka’s BABiP is also still quite low. Another thing that is likely to regress to the mean.
Even if Matsuzaka’s ISO stayed kinda low, that’s not enough to justify such a low ERA, given the amount of baserunners he allows.
“Actually I did read the whole message. My point is all of those guys could have been brought in to testify about Clemens and yet none of them were.
I doubt highly they would be brought in for Bonds.”
Clemens and Bonds situations are not even remotely similar. Not even close.
Bonds is facing a Federal indictment on criminal charges. The clemens things is a civil lawsuit. Nothing alike at all.
And we still have no idea how the Clemens thing is going to play out because the case hasn’t even gotten going yet in earnest. There still a lot that’s going to happen there.
And how much “doubt” are you willing to live with regarding what Bonds future legal strategy will be to keep himself out of Federal jail?
How much insight can anyone have into what exactly his team of lawyers will do? Very close to none.
If I was his lawyer I would 100% issue subpeonas to former teammates of his left and right - i’d bring a train of guys up there to testify that they never saw Bonds use PEDs.
His $2000/hr lawyers are going to pull out the works.
Do you seriously think they won’t ask Pettite to testify? If I was his lawyer I would get Pettite up on the stand and ask him this:
Mr. Pettite you are a publicly self-admitted user of human growth hormone. As such you are familiar with its procurement, its use and its physical effects. Have you witnessed Mr. Bonds using human growth hormone and if not do you have any reason to suspect he has based on his physical performance as a ball player.
Then the prosecution is going to start hammering Andy about his use of HGH.
How monumentally awful and embarrassing would it be for Andy Pettite to have to take the 5th amendment when called to testify at Bonds trial?
You think the NY and national media would have a field day with that?
Now, if I’m Hank and Hal and someone could 100% guarantee me that Pettite, Jeter, ARod, myself, would not be exposing themselves to any liability I’d start assessing Bonds from a baseball perspective. But no one could ever guarantee that.
It doesn’t matter how long they were teammates - once Bonds joins the yankees all of those guys are his coworkers and all of the yankee management are his bosses and employers. All of them become fair game.
Jeter and ARod would be by far the two highest profile guys Bonds has ever played with in his entire career.
And remember - they get subpoenaed they have to go to court - and that puts the entire 2009 season at risk. If say 5 yankees, Girardi, Cashman and the Steinbrenners are testifying at that trial it will be a zoo beyond belief and you can absolutely flush the season down the toilet.
The worst case scenario for being associated with Bonds as an employee is awful for the yankees - monumentally bad, epecially as its the first season of the new season. These are all things businesses take into consideration.
When you hire someone its not always about performance. That’s the case with Bonds. There is no way anyone can know what his lawyers will do to try to keep him out of Federal jail - and in general high paid criminal lawyers will do just about anything to get an acquital. The potential liability is enormous and unpredictable.
“a 1.36 WHIP isn’t overly high. Matsuzaka’s BB rate is horrible, but his hit rate is quite low. Of course it’s harder to hit a guy that doesn’t throw strikes.”
Matsuzaka walks far too many, but is WHIP is skewed somewhat by his 1st game off the DL in which he allowed 9 hits and walks in an inning. Minus that game, his WHIP on the year is 1.28. That WHIP still belies his very low ERA but is not all that bad. Still, walks kill……eventually.
Probably no accident he’s not pitching in this series.
lot of typing.
“Someone else-
a witness’s credibility is ALWAYS on trial. take it from a guy that has passed the bar. witnesses are half the reason cases r lost, cause their credibility goes to shreds whenthe past is brought up.”
But the witness is not on trial. Credibility is one thing. Calling witnesses to destroy the original witness then witnesses to destroy the destroying witnesses… etc., doesn’t seem realistic, no?
If I have to sit through long years of watching the Yankees being like the Rays have been then, I would much rather see the Yankees win than watching players develop.
The key to being a true winning club that can last is to develop your own talent AND bring in others. Trying to rely on talent only from within is what kept the Rays in last place. If I wanted those kind of results then I would root for the Rays or some other un-notable un-remarkable team.
I don’t think the Yankees should get Bonds, but CB’s point about bringing Yankees into court is just asinine.
This is for something that happened years ago. You can’t just pull people from their lives and make them testify. Do you know what would happen if they did that? Maybe the players whose time they waste will suddenly “remember” some chatter about Bonds using steroids. You think Bonds would risk Derek Jeter or Hank Steinbrenner getting cute and saying they heard something or saw something about Bonds using? He’d have practically no chance if that happened.
So yeah, if they wanted to complete use the system, they could call in some Yankees who he played with for 2 months more than 3 years after the incident in question, but then those people can screw Bonds over so badly that he doesn’t even have a case any more. I doubt they would do that. It could not help him in any way, shape or form. It could only hurt if someone got upset that Bonds was wasting their time.
CB:
Maybe Bonds he was a ploy by Yankke brass was using as leverage, to let teams know, if you want to deplete our farm system for your average players you leave us no choice.
This is a business and Bonds would fill seats for good or bad reasons.
Here’s a rumor I heard from a non-attributable source.
That alone should induce skepticism, so you can dismiss it accordingly. However, it does make some sense and the name supposedly generated discussion in yesterday’s Tampa pow-wow.
Brian Giles.
True he hit left-handed and the Yankees would prefer a right-handed bat. However, Giles, evidently, would command far less than either Bay or Nady, let alone Tex or Holliday. Giles might not cost the Yankees much more than a prospect or two we’ve never heard of. Something along the lines of last year’s Jeff Kennard for Molina trade.
Besides, Cashman and Towers are close friends evidently.
Are you really comparing the effects of driving intoxicated with road rage and roid rage?
When you’re impaired, you’re impaired. There is no difference.
TurnTwo:
I want them to win, with there talent if possible, but you can only do that if you keep the guys you think are the next Jeter, Mo, Posada, Pettite…not trading them for Washed-up or Martse, Bay or who-ever..
Giles, to his credit, still has a .400 OBA, if he doesn’t hit for much power anymore.
“But the witness is not on trial. Credibility is one thing. Calling witnesses to destroy the original witness then witnesses to destroy the destroying witnesses… etc., doesn’t seem realistic, no?”
He didn’t say they’d call witnesses about the witnesses. But, the prosecution would certainly start asking ARod himself about all these things.
I admit, I hadn’t seen the possibility of current Yankees winding up on the stand during a Bonds trial as a result of his being on the team now. It certainly doesn’t rationally matter. But I don’t trust a judge to disallow the defense either.
kill: that is the ‘best’ under the radar name, i have heard. It crossed my mind yesterday.
yes. Maybe a cashman and towers, connection.
Any word on Manny yet?
When you’re impaired, you’re impaired. There is no difference.
By that logic, someone who has had 3 drinks and has a BAC of .08 is as impaired as someone who has finished off a 30-pack.
“Do you know what would happen if