When a deadline is not a deadline
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- July
- 31
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If the Yankees fail to obtain a starting pitcher today, there is no need to panic or resign yourself to The Summer of Sidney.
The type of players the Yankees want would be high-priced veterans than they get for a B-level prospect or two. Those type of pitchers are likely to clear waivers and be available in August.
We’re talking Jarrod Wasburn, Vicente Padilla, Paul Byrd, Bronson Arroyo, guys like that. They all wouldn’t clear, but one or two of them would.
The competition in the AL – Boston, Tampa Bay, Los Angeles – is not looking for No. 5 starter types.
Meanwhile, no sign that the Yankees will get Washburn before the deadline. But it only takes one call.
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on Thursday, July 31st, 2008 at 2:57 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
I still think they’ll get a pitcher right at the deadline.
with the moves they’ve made so far, i’m cool with that… most likely sir sidney gets one more start and if he implodes they go that route for one of those vets or they go back to kennedy or another farm hand
I’m low on Ponson, but I’m not sure how much an improvement Washburn would be. It’s like replacing a spare tire with a leaky one…
oh God no to Arroyo
i am not sure why the yankees need that fifth starter they can always go back to Kennedy and they have Hughes coming back soon and Wang in a month.
After looking at that uninspiring list of names, I’m all for throwing the (hopefully) rejuvenated IPK and someone like Aceves out there and see what happens.
I’d still rather try Aceves or IPK again before getting a Byrd or Washburn type. I understand there’s no SP market there, but internal options have got to be as favorable as these career #5’s.
Dan, they don’t have a day off for a few weeks so it would behoove them to try to upgrade the rotation so they don’t cook the bullpen.
i hate to say it but dont forget that what’s his name Pavano
Reiterating my point here:
“He’s (Ortiz) not going to be pitched differently.â€
You’re nuts if you think this is the case.
A pitcher facing David Ortiz has a very different mentality with Manny Ramirez on deck than he has with JD Drew on deck. The mentality is ‘whatever you do, don’t give the guy on deck another baserunner.’ With Drew or Lowell you can get a little more crafty with Ortiz, assuming you aren’t just giving a pass with first base open. Pitchers are a lot more confident that they can get those two out.
Ponson wouldn’t have an era of under 5 in Scranton.
I’m more in favor in waiting to see how Hughes or Kennedy do …
but what do you think about getting Maddux?
Is a dude named Confucious allowed to call someone nuts?
“Those type of pitchers are likely to clear waivers and be available in August.”
By the time they are, Kennedy might be called up and pitch two effective games. Suddenly, you’re only looking for a #5 (maybe another scrap heap type). Definitely no cause for worry.
Maddux will only approve a deal to the Dodgers. He has said so.
The future has to start sometime. I think Rasner has pitched well enough this season to leave in the rotation. For now, I’d put Kennedy in to see how he does. If he tanks again, you go to Hughes in September to see how he does…..
Could either of Kennedy or Aceves be slotted for tomorrow night’s start? Didn’t Kennedy just pitch on Tuesday? Not sure about Aceves.
“The competition in the AL – Boston, Tampa Bay, Los Angeles – is not looking for No. 5 starter types.”
the Yankees would have priority over those teams anyway on a waiver claim
The Yank brass are still concerned with how Kennedy will deal mentally with the majors and New York. He isn’t much of an option at this point.
Maddux won’t come back to the east coast to pitch.
Yeah and I’m sure you know exactly what the Yankees brass’ view of Kennedy’s mindset is. You tell ‘em, Steve Dave.
IPK is not a solution. Anyone remember how bad he was????
“After looking at that uninspiring list of names, I’m all for throwing the (hopefully) rejuvenated IPK and someone like Aceves out there and see what happens.”
Me too. It was said that Kennedy would have to earn his way back – and it looks to me like he has. It’s not like they slotted him right back in once he got off the DL and did his rehab starts. He’s consistently pitched well – if that’s not “earning” it, I don’t know what is.
As for Aceves, I’m anxious to see him, but he still needs to build his strength back up since the groin pull and prove his stuff at AAA in more than just a small handful of starts.
Bottom line though is that I don’t want any of the Byrds or Arroyos of the world on the Yankee roster. Washburn I would be comfortable with in the back end of the rotation, but not at the cost which the Mariners are trying to get out of us. Dump his salary or don’t.
dbacks wont trade anyone or for anyone either!
I think Kennedy deserves another shot if he feels he can handle it.
Reiterate your point all you want, but teams are not just going to throw up their hands and throw four wide to Ortiz just because Manny’s not up next. It doesn’t work that way.
The Bonds point is apt. Great hitters are great hitters no matter who’s around them… and Ortiz’ supporting cast will still be far better than what most teams run out there.
Yeah and I’m sure you know exactly what the Yankees brass’ view of Kennedy’s mindset is. You tell ‘em, Steve Dave.
Well it’s kind of obvious or he would be pitching in the rotation right now.
“The future has to start sometime. I think Rasner has pitched well enough this season to leave in the rotation. For now, I’d put Kennedy in to see how he does. If he tanks again, you go to Hughes in September to see how he does…..”
I guess that means you piss away the season until September?
Kennedy pitching well in SWB, Hughes on the mend, Freddie Garcia can be signed, Aceves could be a surprise, ditto for Milton and Zambrano…The types of pitcher the Yankees are targeting are no better than this group, so why bother…
Hasent been comfirmend but Bay is headeing to Tampa
I`m waiting to here Pavano has been dumped
I do, Andrew. Kennedy was never physically hurt. He had mental issues in dealing with failure and the pressure. They sent him down to work on it. Interesting that you never heard what his injury was. It was because it was his head.
“the Yankees would have priority over those teams anyway on a waiver claim”
what sets the priority order? current standings/record?
Bay to the Rays…
mlbtraderumors.com
the Rays have acquired Jason Bay for Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann. The Rays haven’t confirmed it yet though.
Whoah
Bay to Tampa? We can kiss the division goodbye now.
Whoah
Bay to Tampa? We can kiss the division goodbye now.
MLB.com reporting Bay to the Rays for Brignac and Niemann.
Ian Kennedy
“The Bonds point is apt. Great hitters are great hitters no matter who’s around them… and Ortiz’ supporting cast will still be far better than what most teams run out there.”
That may be true, but if I’m a manager, I’d walk Ortiz to get to Drew or Lowell. I’m not walking Ortiz to get to Manny.
Jason Bay Traded To Rays
mlbtraderumors.com
The point is, the Yankees have many options still so no sense panicking.
Papi is not the same hitter without Manny. The wrist problem is an issue as well.
If the Rays acquired Bay, then I would think Cashman has something fairly large up his sleeve. Don’t worry, I expect Cashman has a response.
How could you guys want Hughes (who isn’t near ready to start a game) and Kennedy back in the rotation?
Do you have such a short memory about their 3-4 inning starts where they got slapped around the ballpark and taxed the bullpen back to back every night?
They are not major league ready. Get it through your heads. Generation Trey might be nice for a t-shirt, but it didn’t work out.
We need a veteran who can go 6, maybe 7 and keep this team in games.
Not kids who can barely go 5 and are still refining their pitches.
They need time in AAA to develop. If Kennedy was major league ready, he’d be here. There’s a reason why he’s in AAA.
His stats may look good in AAA, but he’s still throwing way too many pitches and nibbling and in the majors he wouldn’t make it out the 4th on most nights with that stuff.
“Reiterate your point all you want”
I restated the post because a new thread was started. There is no reason to get snarky. It’s a baseball discussion. Chill.
We’ve heard opposing managers from one side of the league to another lament that they can’t pitch around Ortiz because Manny is on deck. No one else in the Red Sox lineup, no matter how deep it is top to bottom, is going force their hands like that. That -is- the way it works. Great hitter (as you pointed out) with a not so great hitter batting next … you let the not so great hitter beat you.
The problem with Kennedy is how many times can you bring him up, have him pitch poorly, and then send him down again? It’s happened twice already (granted he got hurt the last time, but the results from that game lead me to believe he would have been sent down soon anyway). I think they will wait until he puts together four or five good games before they even consider it.
mlbtraderumors.com reporting it
MLB.com’s Bill Chastain with the scoop – the Rays have acquired Jason Bay for Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann. The Rays haven’t confirmed it yet though.
Ipk=garbage
add Bay to the Ray’s overloaded OFers list. the Rays are becoming more like the Angels, there’s no such thing as having too much OFers.
Pudge will be wearing number 12
If that Tampa rumor is true and all pittsburgh got back was a deal centered on Brignac and Niemann Tampa robbed got the much better end of the deal.
Pittsburgh needed to get Hellickson or Davis in that deal to make it favorable to them. Bay is an all star and signed to a $7.5M deal through next year.
That’s worth much more than Niemann and Brignac.
Bay will help them a lot. They really needed a right handed bat.
Upton to right, crawford to center and bay to left I’d guess.
Good job by the Rays, they will be tough to beat.
Don’t the Rays have a boatload of outfielders?
And does this kill any possibility of Manny leaving Boston?
G.Love,
I take it you did not watch the end of last season? How bout the play-off game Hughes pitched? Earlier troubles can be worked out…Hughes is a stud…Kennedy is better than Rasner or Ponson…
Pudge will be wearing number 12
how you know?
“Bay to Tampa? We can kiss the division goodbye now.”
Really? He’s a nice player, but I’m not sure you pack it in after Jason Bay.
Congratulations to the Seattle GM. Boy, you showed the Yankees that you are not to be messed with. Wow, I guess NYC should not have messed with Seattle. Well, I guess enjoy a sub-.400 winning, last place, and the $14m you owe Washburn. $10m in ‘09 to finish in last place again is money well spent. You showed the NYC media who’s boss!!
I love how people jump on the bandwagon on the idea that since Kennedy hasn’t been called, the Yankees hate him. He was building up his arm strength in his first three starts in July coming off the DL (11 ip total). Three quality starts in a row now is a step in the right direction. Before that, he just wasn’t ready.
“Don’t the Rays have a boatload of outfielders?”
Not who are better than Bay.
“And does this kill any possibility of Manny leaving Boston?”
Quite likely.
Well guess maybe Cashman might look at Freddy Garcia on Aug 5.
The Rays acquiring Bay doesn’t guarantee anything. The games are played for a reason.
Bay is a good player but he’s not great. Pittsburgh as has been shown lately overvalues their players more so than any other org including us.
“Bay to Tampa? We can kiss the division goodbye now”
hopefully, you’re not serious.
billy,
I don’t think people are saying the Yankees hate Kennedy, but Girardi made it very clear that he shouldn’t just expect to join the rotation once healthy, that he had to earn his spot over all the other options (except Igawa, who I would assume Girardi had already placed behind Kennedy on the depth chart)
Yanks can’t afford to wait for September. IPK can’t pitch Fri. Totally unfair to expect him to thrive under all that pressure. Those guys couldn’t handle April. Maybe they were hurt earlier than we knew but probably not that early to write off the instant woes when the season opened. I can’t believe people are talking about Pavano. Ponson will be pitching for his career so maybe that motivates him enough to get a decent start on Fri.
CB: who get the better deal?
yankees for Marte
or
rays for Bay
correction:
yankees for Nady?
or
rays for Bay?
Now it is imperative that Cashman get us a pitcher.
Tampa is here to stay now— their biggest weakness was a need for a RH bat, and they got a 30 HR one.
It was a smart deal by them though, the AL East is as weak as it has ever been… next year the Yanks and Sox will be back to being powerhouses, so this is as good a chance as they have.
There doesn’t seem to be a 6 or 7 inning-guaranteed veteran materializing between now and 4 pm. The Yankees seem to be hedging their bets that Kennedy and Hughes will, in fact, be major league ready this year, otherwise they would have overpaid for some garbage band-aid like Arroyo or caved to Seattle’s demands for Washburn.
Seems like they’re giving Ponson another chance Friday, then if he bombs they limit Kennedy’s innings Sunday and call him up to take Ponson’s place for his next turn through.
vinny, I would say Yankees for Nady because Nady is a better defender than Bay.
2:20pm: The Jays are left as the sole Ibanez suitor as we draw to within 40 minutes of the deadline.
LOL. Kerry of ESPN thought that Theo was trying to block the Rays from getting Bay (in addition to placating manny). Talk about much adoo-doo about nothing.
In case anyone hasn’t noticed, the Yankees have improved their team. Nothing big, just a few pieces to plug some holes and boost the morale of the clubhouse.
Been busy paying attention to trade stuff, but I just noticed that Cleveland’s just about to beat Detroit who’s only 4 GB of the Yankees now.
With 2 months left in the season it’s not time to see if IPK learned his lesson and “earlier troubles can be worked out”.
It’s time for quality starts.
What Hughes and Kennedy did LAST YEAR has no bearing. There is zero evidence this season that shows they will be as effective as they were, especially in IPK’s case since the league has now seen him.
i think the yankees should of gotten harden
Maybe some of us are eager to see Kennedy and Hughes to get out there again because of what they showed in 2007. Kennedy did have some growing up to do and it appears he may have done it. Zack Grienke needed to grow up some and he’s pretty damn good now.
Kennedy is ready and has far more upside than Rasner or Ponson. Acaves is not ready for MLB and should not be mentioned any more. Hughes is at least four starts away. That’s why I support acquiring Washburn, as long as it only costs $$$$. He gives you the innings you need and in the last nine starts has one of the top five ERA in the league.
I bet Pudge is working with Pettitte right now before the game.
The Pirates were asking for the moon for Bay, Marte, and Nady and came out worse for the wear. I think everyone agrees they could have got much more. How about filling your pitching staff with marginal Triple-A prospects.
Kontos 8.0 IP 1 H 0 R 0 ER 1 BB 13 K’s | 3-7 GB/FB ratio. I love the pirates.
Waiting a month or so for the price to come down on a Washburn deal is kind of silly. If you think he’s a clear improvement over Sir Slop, pull the trigger now and get the 5 extra starts. The division and wild card are going to come down to a couple of games one way or another.
If you don’t think he’s a clear improvement then forget him.
But jeopardizing our playoff chances by clinging to a nobody like Brett Gardner (who will never, ever be a major league regular) is foolish. His only value is as a pinch runner and J. Christian can fill that position just fine.
they need a starter. Like tomorrow.
“who get the better deal?”
We have to wait and see who the other prospects in the Bay deal are.
No way it’s only Niemann and Brignac.
That said – if these rumors are true – Pittsburgh is clearly interested in maintaining parity in the AL East.
Both deal were comparably bad for Pittsburgh.
On the whole, I’d say the yankees got the better deal as they got both Nady and Bay.
But Andrew Friedman did very, very well for himself in this trade.
It’s a major move for a franchise that holds its prospects very tightly and has never had to improve itself at the trade deadline.
To get Bay without giving up Hellickson or Davis is a very impressive accomplishment for Tampa.
But again – we have to see the whole trade. That’s just an initial reaction assuming Niemann and Brignac are the main pieces.
One other caveat to this is whether Pittsburgh has another deal on the table trading Jack Wilson. Brignac is clearly going to get the shot to be the SS of the future.
He’s not having a very good season however and I’d think they’d give him more time at AAA. I think they’d trade Wilson in the winter.
@GLove
“They are not major league ready. Get it through your heads. Generation Trey might be nice for a t-shirt, but it didn’t work out.”
Oh, well when you say things snappy like that, they must be true.
Listen, sorry that you’re a typical impatient Yankee fan, but no one here is saying we should call up IPK tommorow to save the rotation. The fact is, he is still a certafiable pitching prospect and at this point last year both him and Hughes were up here pitching effectively down the stretch. No one is saying that will definitely happen but he does have as good a chance of being successful as any of the scrubs being talked about for the number 5 roles. The Yankees have talent evaluators down in AAA determining that was we speak, for you to COMPLETELY dismiss him from your couch is ridiculus. Good day sir.
“What Hughes and Kennedy did LAST YEAR has no bearing. There is zero evidence this season that shows they will be as effective as they were, especially in IPK’s case since the league has now seen him.”
I think they saw a different pitcher earlier in the year. IPK was nibbling and not throwing strikes. He’s been a different pitcher for SWB in July. According to CJ, he’s been terrific throwing first-pitch strikes. He’ll get his shot pretty soon.
G. Love:
Really? Kennedy has shown nothing to warrent getting a shot over Rasner or Ponson? Not three straight solid starts in AAA (including a near-no hitter), not Ponson walking a ridiculous tight rope every time he goes out and gets rocked?
Kennedy doesn’t have to be a No. 3 starter, he just needs to provide five or six innings of three- or four-run ball day-in and day-out.
You’re not going to get quality starts from Rasner or Ponson for more than 60-70% of their remaining starts, and you wouldn’t get that from Washburn, either. So I fail to see why Kennedy should be held to a higher standard, when he has the same floor and greater upside for a fraction of the price.
I’m not saying don’t go out and get a Washburn – if a deal is available that makes sense, you do it, and you buy Kennedy more developmental time. But there shouldn’t be any urgency to get a *No. 5* starter.
After all, remember when Corey Lidle (rest his soul) was supposed to be the No. 5 starter the Yankees picked up in the Abreu trade? He didn’t exactly give a sparkling performance for the remainder of the season. I can’t see Jarrod Washburn, if he’s picked up, doing much better than that for ten starts.
So you think Rasner and Ponson offer so much more reliability and potential that giving on of their starts to Kennedy would be a tragic mistake?
What they showed last year mean’s nothing? You’re a dope. What they showed last year is far better than anything Ponson or Rasner has EVER shown in pinstripes.
I agree playing hardball on Washburn over Gardner is silly, but I doubt that’s what it is.
Yeah I don’t understand the Kennedy bashing either. Why won’t anyone let the kid have another try? Do you honestly believe Ponson is a better bet???
Can’t risk the season with Kennedy,Rasner and Ponson.I believe Kennedy should have another shot but you can’t have all these kids pitching here.This ain’t AAAA.
MLB.com’s Jonathan Mayo says there is no done deal – the Rays might not make Brignac available.
The holdup is Neimann… his injury history scared off Pittsburgh.
Gee Pete, this sounds euphemistic to me for “Called this one wrong so I have to cover my butt!”
No matter how much you or any of the other Ponson haters on this forum try to rationalize it, unless Washburn is part of a trade in the next several minutes, you all got it wrong.
This by the way is of little moment only because the deals are ultimately made by the Yankees and not the forum posters.
If we get Washburn and Ponson goes away in the next several minutes, I am going to be here to say I really got it wrong. Otherwise there is not a question that I (and other objective posters on this forum without a Ponson axe to grind) were able to be lucid enough to interpret reality.
So there!
yanks would of been the big winners if they would of gotten harden
Manny to the Dodgers!
O Happy Day!
the yankees would be nuts to send ponson out again.give kennedy one start if he fails send him back down for the rest of the year.the yankees need to get rid of every single free agent and get an ace,move wang to number 2 and joba three.i would try to sign abraeu for a year or two only if the price is reasonably,10 million maximum or let him walk.the problem with the yankees is that they have very bad starting pitching except joba.it is absolutely horrible.they need to smartly build a great staff first by getting a true ace.imagine sabathia,wang,joba as 1-3,that would easily be baseballs best,hands down,then fill in the 4th and 5th spots.they also have to many overpayed players.keep nady,trade matsui .bring pudge back if he will take 6 million or less or let him go,molina as backup,damon in left,get a serviceable center fielder with better numbers until ajax is ready,dh posada,get a good first baseman or put nady there.they will not win with this pitching staff.,to many baserunners and BAA for every one of them except joba is frightening.get pitchers with good career whip and BAA numbers.with a payroll well over 200 million their is no way on earth that the pitching staff should be this bad.i am not worried about the pen they have several bodies that are good.get the payroll down to the max allowed before luxury tax kicks in.