Today in The Journal News
-
- August
- 5
The Yankees lost a game – and Joba Chamberlain – on the same night in Texas.
Dan Giese has replaced Darrell Rasner in the rotation. This notebook also has updates on Xavier Nady, Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes, Jason Giambi, Mark Melancon and the American Idle, Carl Pavano.
Pudge Rodriguez is quickly getting acclimated to the Yankees.
————
Joba Chamberlain is flying back to New York this morning and will be at New York Presbyterian Hospital later today for an MRI.
The Yankees, if they follow their usual practice, will have the MRI read by some specialists around the country. In other words, we won’t learn much until later in the day.
Keep in mind, shoulder injuries of any sort demand cautious treatment. Chamberlain is arguably the most important player in the organization and the Yankees won’t let him pitch again until they are assured this injury won’t lead to something more serious.
The last thing you want is him altering his mechanics in some way to compensate. Jorge Posada believes that his minor lat strain in spring training is what led to his labrum issues.
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on Tuesday, August 5th, 2008 at 3:40 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Take your time, Joba. We can get by for a bit. Hopefully just a muscle strain.
So what’s the rotation look like for the trip? I’m all confused.
Tuesday: Pettitte @ Harrison
Wednesday: Ponson (the good one!) @ Hunter
Thursday: Mussina @ Feldman
Friday: Giese @ Weaver
Saturday: TBA (IPK?) @ Lackey (yikes!)
Sunday: Pettitte @ ???
Then I guess Joba is pretty much done for the season.
Mel, I had this in the last subject thread, but, it appears that they are getting Mark Melancon ready for a callup. His next appearances will be in the middle of the innings. Also looks like Kennedy gets the call if Chamberlain misses any starts.
If Joba is done our season is over. You cant win without him and Wang. Especially when the teams you have to overcome have Kazmir and Beckett.
Give Igawa and Pavano a try; after all, Yankess are pretty much done for this season.
i’d rather see mealcon, hughes and kennedy but if they need a guy to eat innnings it’d be nice to see them stick pavano out there to throw 250 pitches one night when its 140 degrees in texas
hopefully only a minor infury for joba and hes back in 2-3 weeks …
I just…..I could not be more depressed. I don’t even know where to begin. I am glad there was a side story so not all of my attention was on girardi being an IDIOT. Maybe next time when a guy walks 3 men and has thrown basically a season high you can realize it is time to make a pitching change. Crist I saw him shaking his head during the hamilton AB!! He had his chance. As for joba, gos help me. It is just one injury after another, more heartbreak season after season. I am sick to my stomache.
Peace
You don’t mess with shoulders. Judging by all the stories today, he probably strained a deltoid muscle.
Not a serious injury if you don’t try to push through it. Posada had the same injury in ST, tried to push through it, and created a more serious injury.
Its why I always try to refrain when discussing how “tough” players are (see Carl Pavano) when it comes to injuries.
As fans, we often want players to, “show toughness” and “play hurt”. Players themselves do the same thing wtihin the confines of the locker room. Johnny Damon has a (justifiably) reputation as being “tough”. Yet, he will tell you that he has made minor injuries worse by playing through them. Its a very fine line between being “tough” and being “dumb” when it comes to playing hurt. If you aren’t careful, especially with pitchers, you can take a minor injury and turn it into something major.
Who knows if Pavano, while trying to show he was worthy of being a “good Yankee” tried to play through injuries that lead to a change in mechanics, causing his elbow injury?
Its something we will never know because all of the chatter (not just from fans, teammates as well) re: Pavano’s “toughness” have pretty much ruined all communication lines between Pavano, his teammates, and the Yankees.
We DO know Phil Hughes tried to play through what he thought was a “minor lat issue”, and it turned out to be a fractured rib.
I would be very surprised if we saw Joba anymore this season.
Even if its a minor injury (which I believe it is), the Yankees have Posada and Hughes as examples of guys trying to do too much and turning minor injuries into more serious injuries.
They aren’t going to go that route with Joba.
Girardi played it the only way he could play it last night. He was shorthanded and he stuck with Marte.
You don’t put a rookie (Robertson) in that situation. You just don’t.
Plus, you have to save some arms in case the game went extras. Given that the bullpen was shorthanded, Robertson would have had to pitch the 10th and beyond.
Its one of those powerless situations as a manager. He had no place else to turn.
He was down 3 arms (Veras, Giese and Rivera) last night. He already used Ramirez and Bruney. He was stuck. That’s why Marte took one for the team last night.
When you have a 3-0 lead against the worst pitching staff in baseball, you have to add on. The offense didn’t, stuff happened (like Joba’s injury) and the game got away from them.
And if Marte held Texas what would have been Girardi’s options for the next inning?
Most likely Robertson.
The point to question was not leaving Marte in too long but that, when you know you are short handed, you should have left Ramirez and Bruney for a longer period. The GM should have brought someone up for bullpen help and send Rasnar down.
Jeter needed to get that hit in the top of the inning. It would have put pressure on Texas hitters to swing away.
On the bright side, every one else in the division lost. This next week is important, if we can go 4-2, or 5-1 in the next 6 games we will be ok. I agree with SJ on Joba, I would be stunned to see again, unless it’s post season..
I believe next week you will see IPK, Hughs, maybe Pavano called up.
It’s not over till it’s over, from one of our HOFer’s.
Girardi had one other option, but, I’m not sure it was the right pitcher to do it with. I think it was Mussina’s throw day. I think if it had been Pettitte’s throw day, he would be the perfect pitcher to come in a get 1 to 4 outs. He’s stated that he’d prefer to pitch under game conditions than in the bullpen. Not sure if Mussina could do that, but, it’s an option that needs to be explored.
texas….the site of the hughes and joba injury…and the home state of one george w bush…ugh
Thomas:
Jeter had a good at bat and was robbed of a base hit…..
“The point to question was not leaving Marte in too long but that, when you know you are short handed, you should have left Ramirez and Bruney for a longer period. The GM should have brought someone up for bullpen help and send Rasnar down.”
Ramirez pitched long on Sunday, Bruney just returning from injury himself, he pitched the day before and you’re lucky you got out of him what you did.
You’re being too picky. hindsite is 20-20.
He only had one guy left in the bullpen after the 9th inning. Robertson. That’s it.
One reason why the Yankees bullpen has been effective is that they haven’t overused guys. Sometimes, that means a guy (last night it was Marte) has to take one for the team rather than just using everybody every night (the Joe Torre bullpen philosophy) to try and win every game.
Personally, if the offense did its job, adding more runs against the worst pitching staff in the game, the 9th inning becomes irrelevent.
Its never just “one” guy that blows a game. Last night, the offense had as much to do with the loss as Marte.
They have been working shorthanded in the ‘pen because the starters haven’t been going deep into games for the last 8-9 games. When that happens, your pitching is a mess.
From the Orioles series to now, only Ponson and Moose gave them any innings. That puts a big load on the ‘pen (coupled with Edwar’s one pitch outing when he got tossed the other day) and guys are gassed and dinged up out there. It happens to all teams at certain points in the season.
Unfortunately, its happening to the Yankees right now.
They can’t send Rasner down. He is out of options. They can only DFA him.
Its not Cashman’s fault they lost last night. Learn the rules of transactions before posting such nonsense.
Brian Bruney is coming off a serious foot injury. They aren’t extending him two innings right now.
Edwar? Why extend him when you don’t have to. Unfortunately, Girardi doesn’t have a crystal ball to see how the game is going to play out.
Ideally, you don’t want to have to keep pitching your bullpen guys two innings per outing.
Its why starters going longer than 4-5 innings is a must if you want to have a good bullpen.
Let’s not take anything away from Texas, they are a good hitting ball club. They threw there best pitcher (their Ace) at us last night. Padilla is their best 13 game winner the next highest is a 6 game winner.
We will be ok, let’s hope Joba injury isn’t serious.
Losing Joba potentially for the rest of the season is a huge blow to our playoff chances. That said I agree you just cannot rush this kid back (which probably means out for a month). He is our future. Can the Yanks make it interesting down the strech? Sure, but without Wang and now Joba I just don’t see how we win the division much less a championship this year. Even if we sneak in on the wild card, I’m not looking forward to gettting bounced out of the first round again. I’m just not.
Oh well, baseball can break your heart sometimes, and I am disappointed with this latest injury. Who knows, maybe everyone just plays loose and enjoys the rest of the season now. I’m looking forward to the September call ups to see some of our prospects perform on the big stage which will offer hope for the future. Mr. Cashman the ball is now in your court, what’s the next move?
Hey Freddie Garcia could be an option.
Why not Chase Wright?
I gotta say, that Josh Hamilton is one seriously good fielder to go along with his hitting…he takes some odd routes to balls but he gets there. I’d definitely like to see him in pinstripes one day.
Joba…too many offspeed pitches last night. A lot of the Ranger hitters are free swingers and Joba shouldn’t have had as much trouble as he did second time around the lineup. Anyone catch the replay of the Kinsler “foul ball” when Pudge threw down to second? Joba had to hit the deck posterior first to avoid the throw, it looked really awkward, and he landed on his right side–Joba’s a big guy so that had to hurt.
Freakin’ tough loss last night for real.
That sums up this season in a nutshell. Injuries on top of injuries. I know that players get hurt, but the Yankees seriously need to look at their conditioning program. Too many players are getting hurt, and in some cases aren’t telling the manager until it’s too late.
Last night was pretty brutal,,,Marte to me is a one inning guy, can’t walk 3 in an inning and expect to escape that
Starting to get tired of AROD, guy’s head just doesnt look like he’s in it, I know what his numbers are but damm, we are locked into this guy for 12 years 12 YEARS
And the guy in the hole next to him is looking a little rundown as well
Tough times fellow Yankee fans, signs are there that this just is not the year, hope Im wrong, catching these teams without Wang and Joba now? Oy Vey
Yeah, I also would be surprised if the Yankees let Joba pitch again this year. They won’t take any chances with him and it’s the right move w/such a young player who is so important to the team’s future.
But god damn. This really sucks. Without Joba there is basically no hope of the Yankees doing anything this season. Our bad luck in losing both him and Wang is just insurmountable.
The other teams in the division are extremely f’n lucky. Not better for a second. Just lucky. All the problems and injuries the Yankees have had (and in a “transition year” no less) and they can still only manage a slim few game lead. Imagine if our players were healthy??
Kinda makes this all the more frustrating
The rest of this season is really gonna suck, especially if Moose doesn’t win 20. At least there are some quality young players who are fun to watch, so it won’t be a total loss. But still. This hurts.
And on top of everything else it only happened because of an incorrect call from an umpire. @#@$$^#*!!!
I’ve been a Yankee fan for 40yrs, maybe to some the play-offs look bleak right now that’s because your spoiled making it for 13yrs straight. Not trying to offend anyone making a point.
In 1978 it really looked bleak, mid-August and 12 games out of 1st, there was no WC, win division or nothing.
If we can just get a starter or the kids to get 6 inning starts, our bull-pen can do the rest.
We will be Ok.
We sre 5 games out of the division, and 3 back in the WC.
Plenty of baseball left, aginst the teams in front of us.
On the bright side (I guess) at least Cash didn’t make any trades that compromise our position for next year just to help out this year. In the meantime, just gotta suck it up and think about how hard next year will pwn with Wang, Joba and hopefully Sabathia at the front of the rotation.
In all the Yankees years of consecutive playoff appearances, I think we all knew in the back of our mind that at some point, in some year, whether it was from injuries or a slow start or both, that too many things would go wrong for the team to overcome. It looks like this is that year. Really it was bound to happen sometime. but it just sucks that it has to happen in the Stadium’s final season. And it sucks even worse that it had to happen to Joba. It was so much fun to watch him pitch, I’ll really miss it.
I’m always pretty optimistic about every season, but not this one. Comes a time where you just have to be realistic and look at things the way they are, not the way you hope for them to pan out. Yes, we are still deeply involved in the races and yes, there is still always a possbility that we can make this happen. However, when both of your aces go down and are probably shut down for the season (Be shocked if Joba comes back… Its one thing to have stiffness, its another to have stiffness and hear/feel a pop in your shoulder) you really have to question the state of the staff. Its not like we’ve had bad pitching and the offense has been picking it up all season. Fact of the matter is, this team is just consistently inconsistent (as the Cap’n would say) and for 100+ games now, they still has no idea how to put it together. TB has a solid 1-2-3, as does Boston. Our staff is now a 2-2-5-5-5 (AP,Moose, Ras, Ponson, ?? (IPK)) As optimistic as I would like to be about this season, you have to put it in perspective and not sit here and lie to yourself. You are only going to give yourself false confidence in a team that probably doesn’t even have much of it themselves right now.
Just have to look at the bigger picture. Get our guys healthy and back on track. Continue to develop our young guys and hope to see some glimmer of success in the majors.
I would LOVE for the Yankees to prove me wrong. I am still going to sit here and watch every game, for better or worse and love my team. But don’t think for a second that we still have a great, or even good shot at the PS in 2008.
Hope Hughes and Kennedy pick up the slack. Wouldn’t it be something if these two redeemed themselves after such a disappointing start to the season both had?
as a fan for 50+ years, i totally agree with timothy! of course, winning the #!#!#!# games is necessary also
besides, you can always enjoy counting down the days until your personal favorite whipping boy is gone – pavano or betemit or sexson or giambi or abreu or etc. etc. and your best new toy is delivered – sabathia or texeira or ???.
what a disappointment last night.. This team is killing me this year. Giving me so much hope and then just BAM..taking it all away! I know there is still plenty of time but these injuries are getting out of control.
I would rather be optomistic, we still have a good shot at the play-offs. I will miss Joba to, but we can still over come this.
I refuse to believe we are done, until the number’s (for you stats guys) say so, and right now we are not done!!
Christ…before you people start a rope shortage, at least wait until the medical reports come in today or tomorrow. You can dance from the bridge railings or rafters if it’s bad news.
Fans should stay positive, but this team is in a one step forward two steps back groove. Marte is a lefty specialist, he should be used to get out one big lefty, and then out. If he keeps pitching this bad, the Yanks should flush that option. In fairness to the Rangers, they can kill the ball. Nady looks great, and we’re lucky to have gotten him in that trade. I don’t like NL pitchers coming over to the AL, they get rocked most of the time because they’re not used to facing the AL lineups. It’s just the makeups of the leagues. The NL is more pitching & defense, the AL is just mash the ball.
This Joba injury is a huge deal. It practically forces Cashman to make a deal. You’re left with Pettitte & Mussina at the top…then Ponson, Rasner who got booted out of the rotation for Giese? Who was booted out for Rasner! In the minors we have Kennedy, who was stoned out of the majors, and lucky to have caught an injury when he did. Hughes, who hasn’t pitched all year, this guy Aceves(?) who we keep hearing about, and on the desperate end Igawa & Pavano. But the way things are going would it surprise anyone if Pavano made a start in the next two weeks?
If Joba heard/felt a pop that means he has a muscle tear. Thats the same as a “muscle strain” but “strain” sounds so much better than “tear”. As long as there isn’t cartilage or tendon damage he should be okay. I think SJ is right though, Joba could be shut down for the rest of the season.
GB
Even if it comes back as positive news, I doubt Joba comes back. He is the most valuable piece of our Franchise right now and we can’t risk throwing him out there. Minor injuries build up (minor pain in my shoulder, played through it… 2 months later, torn labrum). For the future of this organization and staff, I think you have to shut him down. You can’t risk 1 year for a ring for what could be 10 successful years of possibly more.
I’m not sure if anyone has brought this up but Joba has only thrown 89 innings this season. He was supposed to throw ~140-150. If he is done for the season then he’ll be on the same innings cap next year. That could mean time in the minors, back to the bullpen or he could be severely limited as a starter. Lets hope he can return somewhat soon and throw more innings.
I just loathe the words “I felt a pop” because those are the exact words Hughes said last year in Texas. So they now strike terror into my heart!
Can`t fault Joe or the team last night. Bad break with Joba, and horrible call by the umpire on the double play at home plate.
I usually over react in these situations, but I think stuff like this happens. Losing Joba will be tough but they will come out of it.
Be alright Joba. Please.
Joba and Hughes will probably be playing some serious winter ball to work on their innings, Patrick. That’s my guess anyway.
If Joba is done for the year (IMO he is unless maybe post season), it equate’s to 9 starts. Like I said before, we can over come this. Pudge is getting settled in, I believe the offense is going to be real tough down the stretch. A-rod is really due to break out.
Injury issues aside, the Yankees squandered yet another opportunity to gain on rivals with Tampa Bay, Boston, and Minnesota losing their games.
There’s only so many of these chances left in the rest of the season and there’s no telling when they’ll come back to bite.
The old adage applies: A win in April is as good as a win in September.
It can’t help but be felt that Wang’s injury will be the one that hurt the most.
I’m not putting the offensive load on A-rod, just saying by the numbers he is really due for a serious hot streak…
I can honestly say that some of the optimistic people on this blog make me feel better about a tough L.
Truth is though, only the play of the Yankees can make me feel optimistic about the rest of the season. If IPK shows us something special this weekend (I am assuming we see him), I’ll feel a lot better. I am hoping he can really give this team a jump start.
We have the Twins in a 3 game series soon, we have Tampa and Boston for a couple of more series as well.
We are in striking distance, yes we didn’t gain ground, but we didn’t lose any either.
Who would have thought that Carl Pavano would be under consideration as a piece of the starting rotation this year ?
I think the current situation highlights the intelligence in Cashman’s approach to building the organization.
Imagine where we would be if our two aces had gone down and we did not have the organizational depth in pitching talent that Cashmoney has put into the system (with the help of the scouting staff and a lot of Steinbrenner bucks making it possible)
So now we have Hughes and IPK – not to mention Aceves – who are all viable fallback positions given the tough spot we find the team in.
Last point – our ace who went down last night is making well under a million bucks – what if that is a $20/year pitcher? Pretty scary when you think about CC and Johan.
Wang’s injury is by far the one that hurt the most.
Imagine throwing out Wang, Joba, AP, and Moose every 4 days? It can be a slugfest for the 5th spot for all I care at that point. Every 4 days we would be throwing out a starter who usually always gives us a chance to win… Oh well. We all just gotta suck it up and hope for the best.
I actually don’t expect the MRI news to be bad, in the grand scheme of injury severity. But I do think the Yankees will shelve Joba for at least twice as long as would normally be required. Girardi said he’ll miss 1 start for sure…well he’s cryptic and you can never be sure what he means by that, but if, say, Rasner would miss 1 start were he to sustain the same injury, then you can be sure Joba will miss at least 2 or 3. IMHO.
Patrick –
That’s a really smart point about the innings cap – I hadn’t even thought about it.
Arod is leading the league in hitting and in the top 5 in HR despite missing almost a month. I just can’t see knocking that.
I agree it’s very likely Chamberlain is shut down. I just don’t see risking his/their future with a shoulder issue, but I don’t want to be premature, he could wake up today feel great and the tests show nothing.
I refuse to rule out PS. This team has kept in the mix through injuries to 4/5 of it’s starters, an MVP, and the catcher. I know this muddies the water, but I’m going to continue to have faith.
Lastly, I don’t know if anyone heard this, but Poppi heard a “pop” in his wrist again, so that could be a major loss for them.
I usually am very down after games and injuries like that. However you cannot blame Marte or Joe, and even the at bats late in the game which were pretty good. I think if Jobas lost, then they got to pick it up. They have great character guys on this team, and Boston is not exactly running away with the Wild card. Its not over, maybe this is Hughes chance to step up. Who knows. They may be down but not out.
my guess is freddy garcia is signed by next week
freddy garcia, victor zambrano, carl pavano and eric milton?
guess I’d better stock up the liquor cabinet for a bumpy ride.
This team needs a new approach to strength and conditioning. Wang, Huges, Joba, IPK, Bruney, Matsui, and Posada are out with injuries. Who knows what the deal is with Mo. This is beyond bad luck. It is mis-management and an embarrassment. Cashman has to take the hit for this.
jk-
you are jk’ing right?
Take a look at the injuries and PLEASE tell me what Cashman could have done.
You guys know in my previous posts, I’ve been slammed for some of my thoughts, on (Bonds/and others).
I will say TK you hit the nail on the head, imagine if this was a 20mil/ a year ace…there would be no flexibility…
Cashman has done a great job for the situation the team is in.
SJ/CB/ you guys we right, youth is were the Yanks have gotten smart.
Cash money if your listening, I owe you an apology for slamming you earlier this year.
JK
You last post is the dumbest one that I have ever seen on this blog.
Congratulations.
TKinDC;
LOL………….
Good to see Dr. SJ44 is up early and on the case today. He’d be surprised if we see Joba again this season. Why am I not surprised you feel that way? I choose to be optimistic and believe that Joba will be out for two to three weeks and be back by Sept 1st, either one of us could be right.
People are upset enough this morning, as the most respected poster on the board, it’s a real downer when you say things like that and not necessary imo.
Look at it this way, Marte took one for the team.
Don’t tell me you wouldn’t have been peeking through your finger’s if Kyle was in there last night.
“my guess is freddy garcia is signed by next week”
it owuldnt be the worst thing in the world to commit to the rest of this year and 2009 to Garcia.
Optimism is one thing but realism says the X factor with these Yankees is lack of clutch or timely hitting. Pitching injuries have hurt but too many well pitched games went for naught with every starting pitcher because of no run support.
still waiting for the “best player in baseball” to pick up his team. i aint seein it…
Sj I agree with everything you have posted. Injuries have finally caught up to the team this year and the offense cannot compensate for the voids.. edwar pitched 29 pitches the night before also.
I feel the season may be over.. they have lost there ace, there starting catcher and ther left fielder/DH for at least 1/2 the season each. there 2 young pitcher s gave them less then nothing and now ther young mega ace goes down.. this season has been terrible all the way around..They almost never get the big hit when they need it and that really hurts.
arod was invisible last night, his #’s are great but his big hits are non existent. his giveaway AB last night just is the tip of the iceberg and Cano gave away a huge AB like he always does with 2 on and no outs in like the 5th or 6th. Cano always tries to hit his way on, does he know a walk is as good as a hit.. Melky does the same but is less capable so really cannot get away with it..
Imagine a loss season.. Other teams such as the Dodgers and tigers have had similar injuries to the yanks and also are treading water or doing worse then the Yanks.. The Yankees offensive studs have not carried the team.. The cashman moves were great but I think especially if Joba is out they have no chance..I think if they Send Rasner down and lose him in the waivers who cares, is he a long term part of the solution.. AAAA pitches area dime a dozen and find lightning in the ottle once in a blue moon. Rasner has been given every opptty. by the Yanks but is just not very good…
Freddy Garcia is scheduled to work out this Thursday in front of several teams.
Jeff-
SJ is just telling the truth. Joba is this franchise’s most prized possession. It is not worth bringing him back early and jeopardizing the man’s career for the sake of a ring. Its one thing to be optimistic about it, but you have to look at the bigger picture and the future.
You are right though, he could be back in 2-3 weeks, but most of us doubt it. We are just trying to be realistic about a terrible situation.
Jeff NJ:
I don’t know, Joba would really only get 9 more starts this year. IMO I see the Yanks being extremely careful with him. In 1 or 2 weeks, we will probably have at 3 least 3 call ups, or 2 and maybe 1 signing.
I believe if Joba is ok, he would only make a PS appearance.
IMO
I was as big of a ‘cheerleader’ a couple of months ago, when everyone was whining about the Yankees’ slow start.
I think, if Joba’s out for a significant amount of time, I will give up pretty much any hope for the playoffs this year.
I’m surprised at some of the Girardi defenders on the bullpen use. It was a mistake to commit to getting five outs from Marte. Bruney should have stayed in with the bullpen being short. He only threw 20 pitches.
I also disagree with the notion that you “just don’t” put a rookie in with the bases loaded. If that’s true, then you “just don’t” bring your only other reliever in the eighth inning. Marte was really struggling to locate vs RH hitters and should have been out of there having thrown 41 pitches.
All you keyboard physicians need to relax a minute. It could be as minor as a cramp that could lead to missing just one start. If it’s a miuscle strain, that’s a DL stint, but with 50 games to go there’s still time for Joba to come back.
If Joba goes on the DL may guess is Giese and Rasner both start this weekend with Melancon or another reliever coming up. Makes more sense than turning Rasner into a reliever on short notice.
the 140 innings cap meant that joba would have had to slow down his innings anyway. if he averaged 6 innings per start, he was going to run out of innings before the regular season was over. so if this is minor and he misses say 3 starts, he will still be able to make it to 140 this season.
stuart:
They still have a very legit shot at making the PS. IMO
I refuse to give up on them. They are due, to get real hot offensively..
Patrick Joba will never go back to the minors for pitch count issues.. Have you seen him pitch?? He has top 10 stuff now, his ERA is 2.50 ish.. They will deal with his innings limit in the majors enough with the hysteria.
others are now realizing this is why signing a huge pitching FA is risky!!!!
DUH, DUH, SUH.
Signing pitching FA for long term huge deals is a total crap shoot, is this news to you all????????
Hughes+Chamberlain=Prior+Wood
TK, it looks like you picked a bad time to stop sniffing glue.
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.
.
.
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Airplane (quote – Lloyd Bridges)
I agree the Yanks are in a for a tough fight, but “History” show’s stranger things have happened. We are not that far behind in any race for the pennant or WC.
Who know’s thge medical situation with or without Joba, we can get a PS berth.
Manny Ramirez may be a goof but but he puts up superior numbers compared to A-Rod in the area of clutch hitting.
For the most part, Alex is a straight numbers guy.
With the game on the line there’s several hitters better seen with a bat in their hands than Alex.
He has never understood how to contain his power when a game situation calls for just making contact.
The sad part is, the closer he gets to Bond’s record the more swinging for the fences we’ll see.
Stuart – If the Cano at bat that you are referring to was the one where he smoked a line drive to left field that was caught, that was not a giveaway. That was an extremely well hit ball right at a fielder. Similar to Jeter’s hit in the 9th, good line drive, good catch by Hamilton.
It is quite frankly amazing where the Yankees are this season despite injuries to arguably their two most consistent hitters (Posada and Matsui). Their most consistent pitcher (Wang). And Rodriguez for a month, Hughes and Kennedy for two months, Damon for time etc.
What other team can lose their best hitters and ace pitcher and be just two games back in the loss column from a playoff spot.
We will need to see how long Joba is out. But Kennedy likely gets a turn soon and then Hughes a bit behind him.
I was as frustrated as anyone last night but the larger concern is Joba’s health.
timothy I hope you are right on the offensive explosion I have no faith in; jeter, arod, abreu, giambi, irod, etc. carrying this team offensively.. NONE..
the yanks just do not consistently get big hits…
they scored 5 runs last night on the surface looks good but the rangers have the worst pitching in baseball..no excuse but the yanks have had more then there fair share of unfortunate issues this season.. the millionaires just could not do there jobs or pick up the slack..the best player in baseball only played like a top ten player, ALBERT PUJOLS carries a team Arod does not.. Jeter had a bad year, abreu is very up and down, giambi is terrible with RISP, Cano is a head case, melky not very good, Matsui hurt to much, Damon( a really good player) but not a superstar, etc…
This is the bleakest it has looked in quite a while…
stuart:
Any huge signing of a contract is a risk, god forbid A-rod blew out a knee.
Missing your actual point……..
Heard Rasner has a blister on his throwing hand. If that’s so he wont be DFA’d, but put on DH.
Guess is Joba, even if MRI negative, will not return for this road trip.
Unlikely now that Yankees can pick up Washburn thru waivers, because Seattle will want to much. No to Livian Hernandez.
Marte should have been pulled as soon as he couldn’t locate the plate. It’s 100 degrees and he wasn’t right. Whichever starter whose turn it was to pitch on the sidelines that day should be an option for Girardi.
If Joba and Rasner are out the Yankees should bring up 3 pitchers to replace him.
As our bullpen is our strength, this is now 3 days in a row that they have failed. Sometimes teams make the playoffs on luck, but that’s not going to happen unless we win almost all the series games we have left.
“Hughes+Chamberlain=Prior+Wood”
Okay, you are stretching here. Those guys were injured every frackin’ season. Joba and Hughes haven’t even played as long as them. Plus, we don’t even know how bad Joba is. People here are already saying he’s done for the season. Are you serious? He hasn’t even seen a doctor yet and already, people are expecting the worst. I’ll agree that if Joba is toast, so are the Yankees playoff chances. But I’m waiting for a doctor’s report before I jump over the ledge.
stuart:
I just have to believe this offense is so over due to get hot and stay hot.
Any news on Hideki
more arod out of the 4 hole. he’s killing our rallies! put nady or someone else who is at least occasionally clutch in there. let arod work on his HOF #’s from the 2 hole or batting 6th or something. (i said let him work on his #’s in another uniform, but nobody listened and now we’re stuck for 10 yrs!)
Bleach Creach…ramirez so-called clutch numbers this year are about a .250 BA. Close and late, he’s hitting .184. Anything else, you can look up.
***.194***
I hope Joba is just fine, however 1 guy doesn’t make a team.
They still have a very good shot..at the PS.
washburn wont clear waivers. he does have a huge contract that nobody wants but since the m’s already turned down a player for washburn, its obvious they wont let him go for no compensation, so the red sox and rays have a free shot to claim him knowing the m’s will pull him off waivers and then cant work out a new trade with the yankees.
that ship has sailed…
“the 140 innings cap meant that joba would have had to slow down his innings anyway. if he averaged 6 innings per start, he was going to run out of innings before the regular season was over. so if this is minor and he misses say 3 starts, he will still be able to make it to 140 this season.”
But if he misses the rest of the season (which is a distinct possibility) he will have thrown less innings this year than he did last year which means he will be back on a 140 innings cap next year.
“Patrick Joba will never go back to the minors for pitch count issues.. Have you seen him pitch?? He has top 10 stuff now, his ERA is 2.50 ish.. They will deal with his innings limit in the majors enough with the hysteria.”
Of course I’ve seen him pitch. Think about this for a second before you take shots at me.
If Joba is out for the rest of the season he will be back on the same innings cap which forced him to the bullpen for the first part of this season. Now that he’s stretched out as a starter I don’t see Cashman putting him back in the bullpen and transitioning him YET AGAIN to a starter. That was a mess in the media and it can’t be easy for Joba.
Assuming this is true then basically Joba has to be a starter for the whole season with a 140 innings cap. Most starters have 30 starts or more in a season. 140/30 = 4.66 innings per start. So are you telling me you’d limit one of the pitchers in your rotation to less than 5 innings per start? That would basically be like giving every fifth game away.
You can’t sacrifice games in the majors in favor of developing Joba so the best option I see is putting him in the minors to get his innings up.
The final option would be to make him a reliever for the rest of his career which is the worst possible course IMO.
Jason I was in the car listening to the rangers broadcaster on XM, they did not mention line drive so if I am wrong I apologize the 2 and 0 thing bothers me with Cano it is a endless theme with him
Again teams usually do not win games but teams lose games.. 2 examples are the yankee game last night and the angels game…the walks etc. at the end killed the yanks and O’s..
the good news is if the Joba is out a while , at least the Yanks will finally get a high draft pick, and can look at some younger guys more then usual..
The 2 huge injuries are the Wang and Hughes ones.. Call me a fool I expected and expect big things from Hughes regardless if he throws 93 or 96(who gives a crap) and Wang running the bases is huge..
matsui and posada the yanks should be able to overcome with there 9 other all star lineup.. the lineup had not come thru all year..the tino yr. when he carried the team for 2 weeks is a n example, they had huge pitching issues but there offense just pummeled teams.. that team is not as well balanced as this team on paper..
Trader…no way are the Yanks going to make Rasner the DH. he can’t hit for squat. With blisters, the may DL him, though.
we all know that the Steinbrenner’s wanna win more than anything else. So what happens if we dont win??? Does Cashman go bye-bye?? Does Girardi keep his job???(Personally Id like to see Showalter back) What type of splash do the Yanks make? Does Jorge,Matsui,Abreu,Giambi, maybe even Mosse,Andy, come back next year??? for that fact does even Damon make it next year??? I truly believe that if we dont make it to the ALCS it is going to be an off-season to remember. New Stadium there is no way the Steinbrenner’s dont make HUGE changes..
Y’s guy on washbum he will clear waivers and the Yanks since they are lower in the standings then the sux and rays would get him if they wanted or the mariners could pull him back.
the team lower in the standings gets the first bid…
In spite of all this, injuries to key players, poor pitching from the young guy’s earlier this year, no real clutch hitting, tons of talent that is over do to produce.
We are only 5 games from the division, 3 in the WC…
I know we will win the WC at the very least. Ok I said it.
coach jay I will bet you any amount of money you want Girardi does not lose his job it is not even a possibility.
why don’t we discuss if the sun will come up tommorrow??
“Does Jorge,Matsui,Abreu,Giambi, maybe even Mosse,Andy, come back next year??? for that fact does even Damon make it next year???”
ughh… we just signed Jorge to a 4 year deal, Matsui is still under contract, as is Damon…
My only guess is that you meant they might be traded
Did i say he was getting fired???? Nope asked the questions, remember the old Yankees that fired managers after 1 year and Hank is said to be like the OLD GEORGE?? please dont put words in my mouth thanks
Well right they would have to be traded, Guys i know what im talking bout.Thats why I asked what will happen in your opinions?? I know it wont be all of them gone but thats why i throw out the names.
Why would Girardi lose his job ? He’s playing the cards that he’s been dealt. He can’t control the injuries that have plagued the team this year and he can’t force the offense to perform up to it’s potential.
stuart, the m’s have already turned down a b prospect for wasbhurn, they are not going to let him be claimed on waivers. the yanks want wash to clear waivers so they can restart trade talks, they know that if they claim him, he wont clear and they cant trade for him. the M’s will put him up for waivers but if anybody claims him including the yankees, they will pull him off and wont be able to trade him.
knowing that the m’s wont let him go without recieving a prospect, the other teams are free to claim him knowing that the m’s will revoke the waivers and then they cant trade him to the yankees.
Agree with comment on Arod. the best player in the game needs to get some big hitsI knew he probably did nothing last night because it was a close game.
Joe G, isn’t going anywhere he has done a great job with what has happened this year.
Cash money he isn’t going anywhere either.
After our PS trip this year, next year will be even more exciting…
Stuart – It was acutally a very good good at bat by Cano. He got ahead in the count, got his pitch and drilled it the other way. Just happened to be right at a guy. Honestly, he could not have hit it much better.
The fearless prediction is that in about three starts Hughes comes up really helps to fill the void left by Joba. The reports so far on Hughes’ rehab have been outstanding.
I met a guy whose son played in college with Ian Kennedy. He has followed him throughout his college career and brief professional career. He seems to think that Kennedy is a very good pitcher and will work himself out. He too will help (sooner than Hughes).
Does anyone remember the initial injury Alan Horne went down with this year?
Another factor to consider is that the 3 closest minor league pitchers to start the season have all gone backwards this year: Horne, White and Marquez. Makes it even more remarkable how the Yankees are still in this thing.
who was calling the pitches last night? The bench or Pudge? Is it possible that Pudge called for too much breaking stuff and put undo stress on Joba’s shoulder? Seems that we weren’t having all these pitching problems with Molina as the backstop.
People still bashing Arod, I thought that went out last year. He’s our best player, get over it. Way bigger problems than Arod.
Random thought…
If we lose out on the bidding for CC (wouldn’t be too disappointed, hate shelling out big contracts), does anybody think we make a run for Yu Darvish? I mean, he has to be under consideration right now.
I know, a lot of Japanese pitchers don’t translate in the US. However, they said he is probably better than Dice-K and he is younger. And as much as we’d hate to admit, Dice-K is a very good pitcher when he isn’t walking the world. Just a thought… Don’t need to get bashed for it.
Ive seen it all on here now, We are blaming Pudge for Joba’s inury..
I think Girardi is def safe for next year, but after that I am not sure of, Cash I think saved his job for those trades he made at the deadline and not giving up any top prospects. Sorry to say but I think Abreu is gone as well as Giambi and I think the Yanks will look hard to trade Matsui or Damon at least 1 of them. The one thing is maybe this off-season we dont have to overhaul the ‘pen.
Agree with Scooter.
Media and everybody else bashes A-Rod. His own fans don’t need to jump in the mix, let it go.
we have bigger problems then our offense failing miserably led by our cleanup hitter?
i sure dont think so…
so i ask again, when is the supposed “best player in baseball” going to rise up and take his team somewhere? he is useless when he’s most needed.
why shouldnt we bash him when he’s doing nothing while the offense cant score? is arod above criticism?
“who was calling the pitches last night? The bench or Pudge? Is it possible that Pudge called for too much breaking stuff and put undo stress on Joba’s shoulder? Seems that we weren’t having all these pitching problems with Molina as the backstop.”
Joba was calling them. If you -actually watched the game-, you’d notice he shook Pudge off a lot.
Of course, don’t let that keep you from irrationally blaming Pudge.
Maybe it was Melky’s fault?
Yu Darvish is a great call however it was said he likes Boston, and maybe even the west-coast. But $$$ talkes and the Yankees are moving into a new-stadium and look at the marketing opitions he could have
Coach Jay,
you start with an assumption, then base your whole post off it. your assumption is false. the brothers stein aren’t their dad. they’ve made many comments about how this is, in essence, a rebuilding year. they’re not going the same route they did before. to build a new core of youth, you’ll have struggles, and that’s what they’re running into. i don’t think you’ll see them get away from that philsophy because the teams having some difficulties. they expect that. now, if in a few years, this isn’t working, then you’ll see some dramatic changes, but not now.
as a side note, whenever people tell me they know what their talking about, i assume the opposite. if people actually know what their talking about, you can figure that out pretty quickly without being told.
SOMEONEELSE. You are so right, It was Melky’s fault Joba got hurt last night what were we thinking not blamming him from the start. Its melky fault 2 the Yanks didnt get another SP at the dead-line
Now if We lose both Joba and Wang, I think we are done. This season is absolutely over. Time to look forward to the new stadium. By the way, call Mattingly, our new manager.
Coach – I don’t think the bullpen gets remade. The one decision is on Marte – do you pick up the option.
As far as players go, some will depend on who will play for short contracts.
Mussina and Pettite – depends on CC, depends on Joba, depends on what Hughes and Kennedy show the rest of the way – but you have to keep at least one if not both.
Giambi – I am not averse to swapping Giambi for Miranda who is now at .300 and hitting lefties better of late.
Abreu – Can replace him with Nady if he doesn’t take a two year deal.
Matsui and Damon – I would look for trades. They will have one year left on the contracts and Damon is having a good season so he will be valuable. Matsui has been injury prone and is probably a DH at this point. For these two you also have to weigh the trafe value versus potential draft picks you would get the following year should they leave as free agents.
IRod – depends on Posada.
Overall, I would be worried about getting rid of so many veterans on the team (although that might be a good thing), getting rid of potentially three outfielders, and the lack of outfield prospects close to ready in the minors (Austin Jackson still being a year away).
WSR ur an idiot. I never said they were their DAD and actually I only said HANK and USA today actually did an article about how Hank is like his dad and even Hank said he was like hes dad in alot of ways. Last time I checked all the guys i mentioned are not young guys nor are they guys we brought up through are system, except for Andy and Jorge. Ive always said we should do what we did in 96 and win with are own guys and put pieces in that way, CC is younger than Moose, Tex is younger than Giambi, Matsui and Abreu.. Thanks for you comments though
Arod needs to get some hits when the game is postion to be won or lost. He needs to stop with the homers when they are down by 7 or up by 7
Someone Else-
Relax there. Blaming Melky like that… Don’t you know its always A-Rod’s fault around here? Jeez…
You guys are clueless, I said that WE DONT NEED TO get ‘pen help i never said to get any for the pen. I like are pen, and I never said to get rid of anyone I asked a “WHAT IF” questions.. my god
I’m glad we didn’t have this blog in 1978.
obviously I have no idea about Yu Darvish but I pas no matte what.. Japanese pitchers pitch every 6 days and it is just to big a gamble.. SUre CC is a gamble but his durability has been a positive so far..
Arod is overall the yanks best player he just is not as great as his groupies think…when you make $28 mill a yr. theoretically you should be the best player.
he is not very clutch….he has much company on this team with mr. giambi being even less clutch, cano and his brain cramps, and assorted other fellow come up small in big moments teammates… the yanks are 11th in runs scored… that is all I need to say, 11th…………
How many innings has Joba thrown? Hopefully plenty because having this injury could put him on a smaller innings limit next year like Hughes. It would suck to have to deal with inning limits on Joba next year to such an extent.
We all know we cant have Damon,Melky,Abreu,Nady and Matsui playing the OF doesnt work guys. So 2 of them have to go and with the lack of no one being able to play CF but Melky that leaves either Damon, ABreu, or Matsui so what do the Yanks do
If the umpires make the right call, the double play stands and Joba’s should is fine today.
Just asking?
Does anyone else think Joba was throwing more breaking balls than usual last night?
Maybe it was a function of the hitters he was facing. Also, the slow curve seemed to be working for him. Several times he dropped it in on the first pitch like Moose has been doing lately.
But it did seem like he threw fewer fastballs even though he seemed to have good velocity on the YES radar gun.
Stuart-
Fact of the matter is, nobody on offense is doing their job except for some guy named Nady. And that is a small sample size with the Yanks so I’m not even sure if that could be put into argument. The offense as a whole needs to step it up. Somebody needs to ignite it, whether that be A-Rod, Cano, Jeter, etc… When Cano is hot, you can see what he does to an offense. Came out mashing the second half and we went 8-0. Somebody needs to step up and be a lead-by-example leader for this club for the next 50 games.
i think its time to put that “best player in baseball” title away, he is not.
he’s also not work $28M/yr.
I read about Yu Darvish who is one of the biggest stars since Dice-K and Matsui. He has a good breaking ball and fastball and some secondary stuff and from what I read, great control to the strike zone. I don’t think it would be too bad to sign him and hope for the best.
Look at the posts last night, in the 2nd inning I posted he was only throwing curves and fastballs at that time.. this has no affect on his injury. I did point out this was good because he was saving his slider for later in the game….
Yanksrule57:
I noticed the fast ball drop off, who knows maybe he was a little dehydrated. Texas is a good offensive team, maybe good fast ball hitters, but I was surprised he didn’t go with more fast ball’s in bad spots.. not sure why?
joba couldnt locate his fastball all night, thus the walks…i think he was injured before he took the mound, it may have gotten worse as the game went on. he threw more curves b/c he didnt have command of his fb, even cone pointed that out a couple of times.
Wha? You mean it wasn’t a bad dream? Joba really did get hurt last night?
Wait. What’s that I see over there? Couldn’t be. Yeah, I think it’s hope.
Before everyone starts shoveling dirt on the Yankees season, lets see how the team responds. My guess is that they’ll rally.
LOL @ Yu Darvish. He would be absolutely perfect, but I don’t think it’s happening with the new look Yankees.
If Joba’s news is bad and Hughes is lights out in his next start, don’t be surprised to see him stretch out in the majors. Even before Joba got hurt, Phil was on the express bus.
Pitchers should be called up in this order:
Garcia (if he can be acquired)
IPK
Hughes
The kid that gave up 4 in a row
Igawa
Aceves
Pavano
Let me point something else out, the big win over the Angels on Sunday? Keep in mind if Figgins fields AROD routine DP ball with RISP they don`t win that game. So that was yet another failure with the game on the line, only this time he and the Yankees got lucky
He threw more breaking balls because Texas hitters are FANTASTIC fastball hitters. They are all very aggressive so throwing breaking balls to get them off-balance and to chase was the game plan for last night. That is all.
stuart:
I noticed the same thing, but it seemed to me that after the 2nd he kinda stop using the fast ball as much, not sure why…
27 this year. hoping for the best is not a strategy.
cashman has strategy is not real complicated so I will spell it out. develop pitching from within(cheaper and pitching injury wise is to risky to pay high price FA) and sign a occasional FA position player when it makes sense…
this is his strategy and it is sound, they need to keep to the plan….the plan is working look at the results thruout the minors and on the mound last night and more to come…….
Coach Jay,
haha, this is not a world of what if? People jump all over others just for kicks. The argument gets kind of circular at some point. Best thing is to move on.
Re: Alex. All we want is a little contact. A little love. That’s all.
I didn’t have time to read all your comments but here is what I have to say. Girardi was absolutely BRUTAL lasty games. On Sunday he left Edwar in the game and he allowed HR, same thing happened with Marte yesterday. Damaso was off and walked Rangers, that was time to put Robertson or even Rivera in the game, just to get that friggin’ last out. Instead, The Great Joe lef him in the game struggling with his pitch control and he loaded bases and allowed crushing grand slam. So, I BLAME GIRARDI for these 2 grand slams completely. Bad coaching. BAD.
Looks like the Yanks are going to go heavy after Freddy Garcia or Jarrod Washburn now. They are in deep crap if Joba is out. He and Moose (!!!) were the only ones that have been reliable lately.
black Yankee:
I don’t know, maybe routine but A-rod was scorching the ball on Sunday…if the call stood last night on the DP, Texas doesn’t get the 3 run homer…it’s baseball…
The umpires have been flat out awful this year. I flipped to the Red Sox game last night for 5 minutes, and saw Sean Casey at bat. He took a curveball inside, hit it into play, got thrown out and all of a sudden it was called a foul off his foot. Casey was not even close to hitting it off his foot. The umpire didnt even call it until Casey turned around to tell him to. This crap has gone on all year, bad calls and umpires calling based on what the catcher and hitter tells him. That happened to Giambi a couple times this year too. MLB needs to review the umpires for real, not this stupid “grading” system crap.
O Mel I agree I was just throwing it out there. I personally like this team we have right now and think we can win. I do like everyone else think we need to get some back end help though. I like Giese starting over Rasner. Its early in the morning and just seeing what people think may happen next year if things go south the rest of the Year.
stf-
Marte gets pulled and the only reliever we have left in our pen is Robertson, and thats for the entire game. Rivera, Veras and Giese were all unavailable. Know that before you start asking for Girardi’s head. Marte had no choice but to bite the bullet for this club last night, NONE. Only argument you could make is for Bruney to stay in the game longer since he only had 20 pitches. Even that is a stretch since you kinda have to be cautious with him still.
freddy garcia has not pitched all yr., had a major injury, and we are moving him into the rotation because he use to be good.. sounds like the george steinny yanks.. we are big on reputations, if reputations could win games we would be in first.
I do not touch garcia with a 10 foot pole.. PASS>>>>>
If we do not have the answers within call it a season and move on.. Let’s call this offense the reputation offense because the reputations do not eual the results from the whole team except Damon and Nady(small sample size) the rest are underachievers…….
Sad but true on the underperforming….
Somewhere in Tampa, Carl Pavano is sitting in an easy chair in a dark room, stroking a black cat, and cackling, “Good! Good! All is going according to plan…”
Isn’t today supposed to be Freddy Garcia’s big pitching exhibition for all interested teams? Anyone know when or where that is taking place? I assume the Yankees will be sending someone to watch him…
The real awful umpire, especially last night, is Bull-spit Bob Davidson. Not only does he come in from 2nd base to override the call at the plate because, after all, he’s the crew chief and he has all the authority, he then proceeds to scream and curse at A-Rod, who has the gall to question his divine authority.
Kudos to the biggest punk, and most classless umpire working in the game today. I don’t know if anybody remembers the hatchet he took to the World Baseball Classic, but that mess, on top of his long history of making terrible calls and then pounding his chest to defend himself…he really adds a lot to the sport, a great mediator out there on the field.
so you are just figuring out the umps stink..
they always stink.. I still have not seen the ball hit Kinsler but they overruled the initial call.
I am clueless on the balks so I will not go there.. the umps think we come to see them!!!!
I can show you a missed call on the basepaths almost every game.. a few days ago a yankee was called out at home forget the play, he was safe…..
the yanks have not gotten or created many breaks this year…
I think if the Yankees see that Freddy Garcia can even lift the baseball, they should present him with a blank check.
this season is one disaster after the next. this sucks.
Andrew,
I saw Davidson talking to ARod on YES last night too, and thought it was utterly despicable. It was an example of an umpire playing-God and saying “Don’t you f-ing talk to me like that…”. Now, we dont know what ARod said, but knowing him, he probably only asked “How can you make that call all of the way from 2nd base and overturn the home ump’s call?” Obviously, Davidson doesn’t use reason.
ohhh…I am pessmistic about the team’s chances without Joba, but just remembered something that made me feel a little better – it is August now. August is Andy’s time. Don’t be surprised to see him step up big.
But just that alone will not be enough…Hughes will need to step up big too. No matter what happens though I bet Andy will at least make the stretch run interesting.
Also re: Freddy Garcia, he hasn’t pitched in 14 months, how is he supposed to be signed, work his way through the minors, and then be the guy to contribute to the pennant race in 2008? If they are going to sign him, it’s going to be insurance for next year. And, if they sign him, it would make me think that they weren’t all that interested in bringing back Moose and Andy for 2009. Personally, I say pass on Garcia and let’s tend to our own right-hander with a shoulder issue to insure that he doesn’t need the type of major operation that Freddy needed. Everyone needs to grin and bear a few more starts by IPK, as much as that disgusts the people that post on this board.
BBB…I am skeptical that Andy is the same Andy as before. He looked just plain awful last week. He’s been “one-good, one-bad” this year. I would like to see him put a string of great, quality starts together.
Also, don’t look now, but the Yanks bullpen has not been that great recently.
Speaking of… I wouldn’t touch Prince Fielder with a 100-ton crane. Did you guys see his punk move against last night’s starter, Parra?
Jason Smith said last night, winning teams don’t have fights like that. The Yankees, Angels, Red Sox (the Manny thing was on Manny), etc. He’s absolutely right. Why would you punch someone you respect? You wouldn’t.
At this point, I am not trying to be negative about the season, just realistic. My optimism will come back to me once I see some solid IPK at the MLB level. Its sad, but our season now comes down to the young guns on the farm.
In addition, here is to hoping that people in the lineup can feed off of X and learn how to see the pitch and hit it in a big spot.
re: Arod, with all the bashing of him in the clutch, I started looking at Pujols at bats since he seems to be the guy that everybody assumes always comes through. With a 2-1 deficit the other day, Pujols popped out with men on base in the 6th, and leading off the ninth, he grounded out on the FIRST pitch. Cano, Jeter et al are always killed for first pitch swinging, but here is the “best hitter” in baseball doing it down 2-1 in the 9th. We only see the highlights of these other guys when they do come through, we see our guys making 6 or 7 outs out of 10 even when they are on fire.
“I still have not seen the ball hit Kinsler but they overruled the initial call.”
Which I thought they were not allowed to do without evidence that the original call was wrong. Davidson should be suspended without pay. But of course he won’t because his union will protect him.
Not to go off on a tangent but even though I come from a family of union workers, this is the kind of thing that makes me hate unions. Their protection of their employees is such that there is no motivation for them to perform their job properly, because they won’t be rewarded if they do, nor will they be disciplined if they don’t.
Jeff,
Really, get a grip. They aren’t going to take ANY chances with Joba Chamberlain. N-O-N-E.
Its not a cramp. If it was a cramp, he wouldn’t be going for an MRI today.
Cramps aren’t something that require MRI’s. Geez, you can’t be that naive, can you?
If its a strained deltoid (in other words, a tear. Which is what strains are), they aren’t going to risk using him unless he is 100%.
In other words, they aren’t going to risk his future for this season.
That’s not being a downer. That’s just telling the truth.
Perhaps you can’t handle the truth. That’s another issue.
The bottom line is, the Yankees have had TWO instances this year where important players (Posada and Hughes) tried to push themselves through “minor” injuries and they became major injuries.
Do you really think they are going to risk Joba Chamberlain the rest of the way? I’d say the odds of him coming back this year are 10%.
And please, don’t tell me how Girardi said its “not something significant”. He also said Bruney had “no structural damage” to his foot. He missed 3 and half months.
He said Posada was “fine”. We now know Posada was hurt in the first day of ST, and had been hurt ALL SEASON.
Girardi said he was “confident” Wang would be back in September for the past month. The other day, he said there was “no chance” he would be back.
Derek Jeter played SIX weeks with a broken hand. Yet, Jeter and the Yankees have insisted he has been “fine”.
The Yankees ALWAYS lie about injuries. Always. Doesn’t make them bad people. Its just the way they choose to handle discussing injuries publicly.
Choosing to be optimistic is one thing. Being realistic is another.
Sometimes, the two don’t always go together.
I hope he only misses one start. However, given the Yankees honesty when it comes to injuries, I would venture a guess to say the odds that he only misses one start is about nil.
“the yanks have not gotten or created many breaks this year…”
That is not new either. The umpires have been screwing the Yankees for the past few years now.
“Also, don’t look now, but the Yanks bullpen has not been that great recently.”
Thats because Girardi has no flexibility. Most of his guys are burnt because his starters can’t last more then 5. Our bullpen was great when our guys were going 6+. Our bullpen was fresh, ready and healthy. Now, starters are having a hard time through 5 and its killing our arms in there.
They aren’t just screwing the Yankees. The umpires have had a bad year throughout baseball this year.
The two balk calls against the Rangers were awful last night. Absolutely awful.
The Kinsler play wasn’t much better.
The Yankees aren’t in third place because of the umpires. They are in third place because of a combination of underperformance from many players on the roster for long periods of time and injuries.
That’s a much more deadly combination to a season than bad umpiring.
I’m glad Joe didn’t tax everybody last night.
We would have a tired/taxed out the whole pen and 9 more road games, with Tex, Halo’s amd Minn (maybe with or wothout Joba). We are still in this race. Marte was the only guy left last night…maybe Robertson…
The offense is gonna have to get hot, I believe they will, Texas is a good offense…
id trade arod for pujols every day and twice on sunday.
Well, regardless of whether Joba comes back or not, Yanks have to play the remaining 50 odd games and we are going to be following it.. So there’s no need for ’season is over’ ’sky is falling’ cries yet..
It is easy to speculate with injuries and some guys here try to take the injuries too lightly and some take it over cautiously… Being a regular blog reader, Pete is very conservative on his speculations about
returning back from injury and he has been proven right in two instances (hughes and wang) this year..
Best case scenario is Joba misses a couple of starts, comes back into the rotation and continues to do what he has been doing.. moose and andy go around their business.. Hughes comes back and pitches well.. Offense and bullpen do their job.. we make the playoffs..
Good Chance: Joba is shutdown for a month or so.. hughes comes back.. goes 3-3 or so.. Kennedy or ponson or whoever fills in decently enough and we end up fighting till the last game of the season..
Worst case scenario is Joba is shutdown for the season.. Hughes and kennedy come back and pitch like the earlier part of the season…
Dream scenario: Joba just misses a start.. Hughes comes back and pitches a no-no… goes 6-0 or 7-0…. Kennedy fills in great and goes 4-2 or 5-1…. Moose wins 20 games.. yanks take the division.. Wang comes back for the postseason.. Pavano wins the world series MVP…
BBB -
I am a teacher in Jersey, and obviously part of one of the stronger unions in NJ, but I understand where you are coming from with the umps, and unions. There is sometimes a blind defense for members, when sometimes it would behoove the union to cut its losses and get rid of waste. Granted, it provides me and others with a sense of protection…but I’ve always thought that if one did their job correctly, protection wasn’t needed. That view is a little naive, probably, as there are certain situations I’ve seen where the union is absolutely necessary to protect myself and other co-workers from preposterous things, but your point is valid.
Can I sue Joe Morgan? I broke my arm when I fell off my chair. Pretty sad when he likes our chances more than the fans do.
Seth (Hershey, PA): Hey Joe. Do the Yankees have any chance of making the playoffs if Joba is out a while? Thanks
Joe Morgan: (10:49 AM ET ) I think they would still have a chance because I think they would find another starter. Remember, the Yanklees still have a great lineup, and it would have to win games for them…which it can do. If I can put runs on the board, it will make my pitcher more comfortable, so I beleive in lineups. The Yankees have a very good lineup.
joba is probably done for the month, maybe he comes back in the next two weeks, maybe next year. his future is more important than the team’s present.
“He’s been “one-good, one-bad†this year. I would like to see him put a string of great, quality starts together.”
Well if he is going to put such a string together, now is the time to do it. He has been up and down this year, but it definitely wouldn’t surprise me to see him summon two months of greatness right now is all I’m saying.
The bullpen is a huge worry though. I’m very concerned about Mo. They acted like his back spasms were just a one day thing but then he wasn’t available yesterday. (Which is a perfect example of why i’m not optimistic about seeing Joba return, it’s ALWAYS worse than they say it is.) But anyway, if Mo is on the shelf for any length of time I think you can basically stick a fork in us. It’s improbable enough that we’ll get by without Joba…
Matt is exactly right. The bullpen is scuffling the past week because the starters haven’t given them innings.
Go back 8 days. Last Sunday in Boston, a short Ponson start.
Monday vs. the O’s. A short Moose start.
Tuesday vs. the O’s. Rasner gave them 6 but the ‘pen had to get used up because they struggled.
Wednesday, Joba gave them length.
Thursday vs. the Angels, a short Andy start and the ‘pen got used up.
Friday: 7 strong out of Ponson but, Mo came up with back spasms after the game necessitating everyone getting more work.
Saturday: Strong outing by Moose.
Sunday: Bad outing by Rasner, no Mo, guys had to get used up.
Last night: Short inning by Joba and guys had to get used up.
9 games, and 6 of them had the starters give them short outings. Couple that with Mo’s back spasms, needing Giese for the Rasner slot in the rotation this week, and some guys just being plain gassed, you are going to have a tired bullpen.
That’s why Girardi had Marte take one for the team last night. With Mo’s availability for tonight in question, the only fresh arm he has out there is Robertson.
You can’t kill’em all out there. If you do, you have a Joe Torre-type bullpen.
You may want to trade Arod for Pujols, I think I would too, but he would get killed by Yankee “fans” the minute they come to the realization that he does not hit a home run every at-bat and actually has bad at-bats from time to time even from the 6th inning on.
Ugh…the injuries this year have just been unbearable. Every team goes through it, yes, but to be in contention at this point, with what they have sustained, is quite amazing. I don’t know how much longer they can hold out though.
SJ44:
I totally agree with the Joba synopsis, but who know’s..
I really believe we are due for a real hot streak offensively, everyone…They are due….I agree with Stuart and you, we need to look from with in for the pitching help..the only guy out is Garcia but like Stuart said he hasn’t pitch at all this year..I would rather go with a kid…
The umps gave us two runs last night so I don’t see where the complaining is coming from. That was strike 3 to Giambi – theres one run. The balk calls were ticky tacky because the umps were getting annoyed at Padilla for taking so long – thats two runs.
The Kinsler call might have been bad but the Yankees got two gifts earlier in the game.
SJ is right with regards to Joba’s injury. If he heard a “pop” it is very likely a muscle tear. Thats not a big deal injury (doesn’t require surgery in most cases) but I doubt Joba comes back.
lol@ Morgan. Such a humble guy.
Joe Morgan: (10:58 AM ET ) Well I will not compare them to my Reds team, because my Reds team in my opinion was an All-Time great and we do not know that about the Angels yet.
I thought the first balk call against Padilla was bogus, the second was nit-picking of the highest degree. The whole DP thing with Kinsler, from every angle I couldn’t see the ball brush him, so how could the second base ump possibly make that call from his vantage point ? The bottom line is that these umpires act with impunity because they know they will not be held accountable for bogus calls. Their job is to monitor the game, not directly influence the outcome. We’ve seen it go on throughout the league this year. Instant replay can’t come soon enough IMO.
The rotation is really doing the bullpen no favors right now. Rasner’s limbo status, not to try and blame him exactly but more to make a point, is hurting the team right now. He can’t pitch in relief because it’s still only Tuesday and he threw 80 pitches Sunday. Edwar, Marte and Bruney are probably unavailable tonight–maybe they could go to Bruney, but he’s still coming off an injury and threw an inning plus last night. Veras and Robertson seem like sure things to be available, and Mo hopefully is given the green light.
Regardless of how badly Joba is hurt, though, wouldn’t it be in their best interest to just DL him and give him 15 days guaranteed to rest, while also allowing the ‘pen to get a fresh arm? And obviously tonight it is imperative that Pettitte gives innings.
Timothy,
We’ve been due for a hot streak, from the entire offense, all year. I think, in the past, it has been expected that the offense will all-of-a-sudden click…it hasnt happened this year, dating back to their discussions in May/June.
we’ll find out what the results are today. like others have mentioned, Wang suffered through similar stiffness his first or second season and the sky did not fall. there are scenarios here which do not involve Defcon 8.
i apologize if this means shelving him for the season and thinking long-term. after all the trade deadline signing hoopla, winnings streaks, etc., the same reality should be starting to dawn on everyone. 2008 is as much about 2009 and 2010 as it is about 2008. if you can’t handle that, and must win, there are 1) some nice Chicago Cub blogs out there for you to visit, 2) PS3 simulations i’m sure you can do in which Posada’s gunnin’ them down, Wang’s not on crutches, Jeter’s not out there 90%, and Joba’s shoulder is just fine.
I hope Joba is fine and he only misses one start. I also hope more that the career we have envisioned for him with stars in our eyes hasn’t been derailed.
most people would trade pujols for arod, so why is arod called the “best player in baseball?”
I hate being so pessimistic, but this season has been one thing after another. Has any other team suffered injuries this bad?
Wang going down for the season was a major dissappointment to begin with. But then, miraculously, Joba filled in just as effectively. Amazing how that happened. Now this with Joba. If they are going to be cautious I don’t believe we will be seeing Joba pitching again this year.
Let me ask a tough question…
If we finish off this roadtrip on a sour note, say 3-7 or 4-6 and remain more than 5GB would you rather see us concede the season, protect Joba by not pressuring him to come back and then call up some rookies and chop off the dead weight?
This season has been atrocious yet we have remained closer with all of our issues than we did last year. How many of you are ready to say this year is not our year because I don’t think I could concede, how about you guys?
SJ44
We arent saying we are in 3rd because of lousy umping, but last night, if the double play stood, no 3 run homerun, and even maybe Joba doesnt throw out his shoulder although he may have done it hitting the deck. It is bad for all teams i agree, but these are the things that make baseball a problem. Also, didnt they start a rule about the pitcher having only a little time between pitches? Padilla took almost 45 seconds between pitches, including the one where a-rod called time and didnt get it.
“How many of you are ready to say this year is not our year because I don’t think I could concede, how about you guys?”
I don’t think it’s time to concede, I just think it’s disheartening to follow the team, start to see things come into place in terms of performance and the roster’s makeup, and then have something completely unexpected derail a lot/all of that optimism. However, I don’t think there’s any need to concede the season until the mathematics point to very very slim chances of making the playoffs. Right now, it’s still attainable.
JR,
You’ll never see the Yankees concede:
1. It’s not the Yankee way
2. They’re too good
3. They get paid too much
4. Anything can happen
5. Tampa and Boston have to play each other, too
6. It’s the last season in the old stadium
7. Anything can happen
8. Ortiz may have tweaked his wrist
9. Games are not played on paper
10. Anything can happen
This will definitely hurt the team, but there’s lots of baseball left. If a mixture of Kennedy/Hughes/(Dare I Say it..) Pavano/Freddie Garcia/Washburn can fill 3 spots in the rotation (Ponson, Rasner, Joba) and do an OK job, the Yankees will be alright.
NoneEyeWayne: My mom is a teacher in NJ as well, so she’s in the same union. Is it the NJEA, or is that a separate thing? Either way I think the teacher’s union is one of the better ones.
Another member of my family is in the electricians union, but he’s a Book 2 employee cause he’s from another state. There is barely any work for him because of that but on the rare occasion he does go on a job, he sees the Book 1 guys slacking off left and right – knowing it doesn’t matter because they’ll always be first in line on any project. Meanwhile he works his tail off and that doesn’t matter either.
In a way it’s almost like the welfare system. A double edged sword. For every honest person that works hard enough to deserve the benefits they get, you have a bum who uses the union protection as an excuse for laziness. I wish there was a way to reward hard work while sniffing out the cheats, but in the end they (unions) probably do more good than harm.
anyway…holy tangent Batman! ok back to baseball, haha.
they’re not getting washburn, he will not clear waivers!
NoneEyeWayneTolleson:
They have always been a second half team, except for the 114 win season, and maybe the 20’s, 30’s, 50’s, and 60’s, but I was born in 1960, so I don’rt recall those years. The Yanks have always been a 2nd half team…Everyone in baseball know that, that why no one counts them out except Steve Phillips..you know he is always wrong….
They will get hot, I bet starting tonight. Pettite will pitch a gem and the offense will click better, they have the past 4 games, except the 1 run game (good pitching and defense for that game)……..I believe in them, they will pull this off..
Tim,
I don’t see a hot streak from this offense. I really don’t.
Haven’t really seen it all year. Even in the 14 run Angels comeback win, 10 unearned runs decided that game more than any offensive output.
While hitting w/RISP can be a random stat, it is something that gets ingrained within a team over the course of a season.
If you do it well early, it empowers you the rest of the way. Its a mindset. Guys try not to do too much, advance runners, and teams become successful hitting in clutch situations. Look at the 1998 team for example.
This Yankee team has more offensive talent than that team possessed. Yet, that team not only hit in the clutch, they hit good AND bad pitching. This team struggles with guys they haven’t seen before and really have struggled during this year against bad pitching. Its unexplainable as to why. Its just the way its shaken out so far this year.
Even last night. Once Joba got taken out, the swings got long again (a telltale sign of guys trying to do too much), patience at the plate was gone, and guys got themselves out more than the Rangers got them out.
The offense is what it is. Erratic, undependable, and filled with guys who simply aren’t good, fundamental hitters in run producing situations.
I’m not into going after retread vets at this point. I think you have to put Joba on the DL, call up Kennedy, and give him the start.
You have to solve your problems from within. If Kennedy and/or Hughes pitch and don’t do the job, you get a better idea of what you need to do in the off-season. If they pitch well, it gives you more pitching depth, which can only help them for the future.
Sometimes, you just suffer too many injuries to overcome. Nobody in baseball can lose the number of manpower games they have lost with guys like Wang, Matsui, Hughes, perhaps Joba now, and have enough guys able to pick up the slack.
Especially when so many of the available players have not had good seasons.
Its just one of those years, like ‘79 and ‘83 where the injuries have mounted to such a degree, its almost impossible to field a quality team on most nights.
1. It’s not the Yankee way
2. They’re too good
3. They get paid too much
4. Anything can happen
5. Tampa and Boston have to play each other, too
6. It’s the last season in the old stadium
7. Anything can happen
8. Ortiz may have tweaked his wrist
9. Games are not played on paper
10. Anything can happen
The only ones from that list that will actually dictate whether or not the Yankees can come through this with a post-season birth are the following:
1. They’re too good
2. Anything can happen
3. Tampa and Boston have to play each other, too
4. Games are not played on paper
If I’m wrong about Pettite tonight and the offense add me to the blame for the season, but I think this team will really respond starting tonight…………
“Joe Morgan: (10:58 AM ET ) Well I will not compare them to my Reds team, because my Reds team in my opinion was an All-Time great and we do not know that about the Angels yet.”
Morgan’s a stooge, but I’m with him. 1976 Reds, as measured against the competition of their era, were the best offensive team of the last 4-5 decades. Defense was also outstanding. Pitching wasn’t as strong as some of the all time great staffs, but they always had a good bullpen.
skeptic,
What do you mean he will not clear waivers? You mean other teams need pitching, too?
Livan finds out on Friday if he clears waivers. Lots of teams hungry for him. Mets (Maine on the DL) and Rockies are said to be looking at him after he was unceremoniously dumped.
SJ –
Pavano trying to show he was worthy of being a “good Yankee†trying to play through injuries that led to a change in mechanics, causing his elbow injury? It would not surprise me one bit if that led to his demise. He’d been called out in the press by Mussina, who was questioning his toughness & willingness to play with even the slightest ache. Probably everyone on the team was questioning him in private too. Also, trying to step up to the challenge after not pitching much the year and a half before. Doubters were proven right but there’s the root of the paradox on which Pavano’s legend is built.
On Joba … I watched what was happening when they were meeting on the mound and felt that while it could be a major issue it looked like it could also be a strain. Real hard to say from watching on the tube though. If its really just a muscle strain or ’stiffness’ the MRI should be able to indicate whether its due to something worse in the shoulder.
If its really just a muscular thing (strain or stiffness) I would think that he could be brought back cautiously a few weeks after the stiffness (or whatever it is) has been totally alleviated. I meant TOTALLY alleviated, none of this 95% crap, and maybe shutting him down until Spetember is what that’d require. Part of the caution in coming back would have to be on him though. He’d have to be real honest and cautious about what he felt in his shoulder each time he works out. Considering what you brought up about Pavano, Joba would have to be explicitly given a free pass by the team regarding his toughness.
Kennedy & Hughes coming back to form in the next several weeks would go a long way towards taking any pressure of him.
****************************************
On another topic, going back to yesterday. Some idiots were psychoanalyzing Kennedy, jumping to conclusions, making twisted assumptions and coming up with stuff about his character & attitude the way Sox fans come up with it. Cripes. IMO he was probably just frustrated with himself, ultimately knowing he has the stuff to succeed at the big league level and his problem was all mental (meaning: its all on himself) when he quipped that he was going to make his minor league opponent look stupid one night. To me, he was accepting his demotion and already knew he wanted to get his chance to re-prove himself soon.
I interpreted his comment as if he was just saying to himself ‘I know I can do this at the big league level and do it well’. Before passing judgment on him, psychoanalytic critics should remember that his only problem at the beginning of the season was that he didn’t totally believe that statement enough to go after hitters the way he should have. Maybe he was just getting a better grip on the basic notion (in his own mind) instead of sounding off like Jontahan Bleepin’ Papelbon.
“Has any other team suffered injuries this bad?”
Only the Braves, and they were out of the race months ago as a result. Looking at it from that angle, the Yankees have really shown a lot in managing to hold on so long. I truly believe that if any other team in the division had lost their no. 1 starter in June and their best clutch hitter in July, in addition to getting nothing from their starting catcher all year, they would be 20 games back right now.
Regardless of how the roadtrip goes, they aren’t going to rush Joba back.
As Jorge Steinbrenner said, 2008 is as much about 2009 and 2010. Always has been. Its why so many of us have said its a transition year this year, regardless of the on field results in 2008.
Look at all the moves the Yankees have made this year. None of them were done to put 2009 or 2010 in peril. Why does anybody think its going to change now? It isn’t.
If the team as presently constructed, is not good enough to win enough games over the next 50 games to make the playoffs, that’s the way it goes.
They won’t do anything to risk Joba, Hughes, or anybody else they see as a major part of 2009 to try and “save” this year.
mel, its simple, the m’s wont let washburn leave without at least getting a decent prospect in return. knowing this, the sox and rays know they can claim him and the m’s will revoke the waivers b/c they wont give him up for no compensation. therefore he wont clear waivers, and wont be available to trade.
Brent,
Actually, none of things have anything to do with post season births.
the baseball gods CLEARLY have something against the yankees.
SJ44:
I will remain optomistic maybe to a fault, but this offense has IMO actually just begun to click, more quality at bats (maybe an out) but the at bats have been better from Jeter, Cano, even A-rod working the counts more, Nady is hitting his stride, I-rod is getting comfortable..Damon has been cosistent all year, when not hurt? Melky has not come around, trying Christian I liked it, but Melky is better at defense, Bobby has been hot…….I believe you will see some serious offense starting tonight…IMO
Pujols is a better pure hitter and probably a better situational hitter than A-Rod is. IMO, Pujols is the best pure hitter in the game.
However, A-Rod is more than just a hitter. People forget that the man steals bases, is a solid/smart baserunner and plays a solid 3B (very tough position if some of you have forgotten, much harder than 1B). He is the best player in the game because he is great in all aspects of the game, not just one or two.
“As Jorge Steinbrenner said, 2008 is as much about 2009 and 2010. Always has been. Its why so many of us have said its a transition year this year, regardless of the on field results in 2008.”
I agree with this statement, and that’s what makes this cavalcade of injuries even more frustrating. Even in a transition year, we were right in it. Take away just one of these costly injuries and we probably pull out the division. Sigh.
“they’re not getting washburn, he will not clear waivers!”
I think he might clear. What team can afford to pay a guy $10.3 million for ‘09 even though he’s not very good, besides the Yankees? Claiming him means paying him. Not too many teams will want to do that.
I think that the Yankees biggest fear would be to rush Joba back in and do what the Twins did to Liriano 2 years ago. I know it was a different injury, but the Yanks will certainly err on the side of caution with this one. I was in favor of letting Kennedy stay in the minors the rest of the year and start fresh next year, but this may force them to throw the nibbler back in the fray.
skeptic,
Gotcha. Thought he was a salary dump, but I guess Seattle will still need to fill out their rotation
ANSKY,
So maybe Ian knows not to disrespect opponents by talking like that? Maybe he knows that he had to earn his way back? If he can keep it simple it’ll all be good.
danielle:
I dis-agree the baseball gods like to see us work harder, and we always do………..
“To me, he was accepting his demotion and already knew he wanted to get his chance to re-prove himself soon.”
It’s not really the way he came off. Seems the organization may not think so either. Pretty telling that Geise and not IPK was the choice to replace Raz.
Why is everyone dismissing the yanks? Was joba the entire key to this season’s success?
Stop your gloom and doom and ride it out… it ain’t over till it’s over!
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I thought Kennedy’s “I’m going to make them look stupid” quote was aimed towards the Yankees for sending him down? Undoubtedly that rubbed the front office/General Girardi the wrong way (as it should) and has contributed to, as Pete put it last night, his Fredo-esque treatment.
Honestly at this point, I’d rather see Ian and Giese in the rotation, as opposed to Rasner and Giese. Although Friday and Saturday in Anaheim, with Giese and Kennedy the projected (possible? potential?) starters…a little frightening. Taking 2 out of 3 this weekend would be an impressive feat.
Timothy Clougher:
you know what I’ve never thought of it that way
good point and i agree
im sure we can pull this one out……………….. right?
My thought was not to directly compare the hitting talents of Arod to Pujols, but to say that even the infallible hitters make outs in key situations more often than not.
That said, Arod does frustrate me to no end by constantly guessing with 2 strikes and watching a hittable pitch go right past him. Also, has there ever been a truly great hitter who swings through more seemingly hittable pitches?
Not to change the subject, but I was at the Bobby Murcer Game on 8/6/79. I wrote about it on my blog. Please check it out.
http://www.claybuchholzloveslaptops.blogspot.com
I am thinking abt the Joba’s injury. He was handled very carefully by the Yanks. They had those Joba rules last season and also he was very carefully moved to the starting rotation. Inspite of this care by the Yanks Joba is injured only after 113 innings(24 in 2007, 89 in 2008) into the majors. Interesting. Even if this injury is not serious I have serious doubts abt Joba going through a full season healthy in future. I am concerned. Very concerned abt Joba’s future.
Then again I should have expected this as Joba had some health issues in the college.
Fredo,
Also telling that Rasner was ineffective for the last 2 mths and only now he’s on the horizon.
Although, they could be trying to do undo the damage that was done by rushing him in the first place.
Everybody’s talking about IPK, but what about Aceves? Any chance we might see him soon?
ANSKY,
Great points. Joba being honest is really important in all this. Evidently, he first felt this “pop” the inning prior to being taken out. He told nobody and tried to pitch through it.
That’s the kind of warrior mentality that has made the kid a fan favorite and got him to the majors so quickly. Its also the type of thing that makes organizations go nuts.
Its that fine line between saying something isn’t right and playing through it. He’s got to be honest with the staff.
He’s a kid, and he wants to do the right thing. He knows how important he is to the team. That said, honesty is the best policy when it comes to this stuff.
That’s a lot to ask of a player (especially a young player) because the peer pressure (from teammates as well as fans) to be “tough” is immense.
Look at Mariano. He said last night he was “ok, ready to pitch”.
Translation: “I’m not 100%, I want to help my team. They need me”.
Girardi, because he knows Mo so well, knows that when Mo doesn’t say he feels “great”, when asked (they ask him every day how he feels after he long tosses), he knows Mo isn’t really ready.
That’s the kind of stuff you only know when you have long term relationships with players. This is Joe’s first year working with Joba, Hughes, etc.
Regardling Pavano, he’s always been a loner type of guy. I think the relationship took a bad turn over some of these health issues and never really took shape from a trust standpoint. Probably, both sides are to blame for the lack of communication on these issues.
Let’s face it, the guy wasn’t faking an elbow injury. He had 3 golf ball sized bone chips taken out of his elbow AND Tommy John Surgery. You don’t fake that stuff.
With Joba, I fully expect him to say he’s ok and ready to pitch the moment he is out of the MRI tube today. Its just the way he is.
If I’m the Yankees, he’s done this year. I don’t care how he feels, he’s done.
They can’t risk him under ANY circumstances. I don’t care what the standings are right now. If you mess up with Joba, as they did with Hughes and Posada (by not shutting both guys down sooner), that’s a fireable offense to me.
Err on the side of caution with Joba, regardless of how it affects this season. I think its the only way the Yankees can go on this one.
Moving Giese from the role he has gotten used to is a big mistake. Kennedy showed last year he can pitch, so what do you have to lose? If Giese struggles and loses confidence, he will be no use to us in the pen or the rotation.
SJ, Your evaluation altough disturbing does ring true to a certain extenet…..I still contend that due to the assembled talent on this team, they will rise to the occasion……The old cream rises to the top mentality…..They have had to endure many obstacles this season, which I believ will aid themin the long run…..Adversity will be their strength…The extent of Joba’s injury will be critical in achieving October play…I see Hughes having a major impact upon his return, and to a lesser extent Kennedy….Things have to swing their way for a change….Your 1979 comparison hits the nail on the head….
The New York Yankees of 2008:
We have lost our starting catcher (for a month before he went down for good, as well), our DH/LF, our number 1 starter, our MVP 3B for 3 weeks, Jeter for a couple of games, Giambi for a couple of games, Damon for a couple of weeks, a 2B who has no idea the first half exist, a CF who has no idea the season has started, a 1B who hits .700 then hits .050, a RF who can’t play RF, a 3B who can’t “hit in the clutch”, a slumping SS who, by the way, gets NO heat from anybody becaue it is all A-Rod’s fault (I mean, c’mon, obviously), 3 of our young starters down to injury, an inconsistent AP and we are still in contention?
Some people need to get a grip and realize what we are dealing with. People bashing Girardi and all this nonsense. If you were given that hand, you would have folded it a long long time ago. What he has done with this team is great. Some of his moves are questionable, but be real. Name me a manager who doesn’t have questionable calls? Exactly.
I hate comparing, but this is too good. The Sox lost Varitek a couple of years back and completely faltered. Almost everyone of our starters this year (except Cano and Melky) have missed time due to injury and we are still standing. Our starting C has gone down and what do we do? We pick him up. As bad as this team has been, we’ve actually been just as good considering our circumstances.
This rant here makes me feel better the rest of the season, though to just be realistic, don’t see much promise. It makes me feel even more better about 2009 (I know, a bit premature) when our guys are healthy and this club can put it all together.
Mel – Only Kennedy himself knows whether he intended any such feelings towards his opponents. Neither of us knows for certain – either way – though some people out there are 100% sure it was the worst intent for absolute certain. I’m sure it’s not like he walked over to the opponents dugout & said to their faces he was going to make them look stupid, nor was it anything like the guys on USA basketball team thumping their chests to the crowd after they dunk on an opponent, nor was it like Manny posing after a HR. As I recall reading, it was just a passing comment to his wife (or someone) in a casual conversation as they were driving to his minor league assignment.
If I recall correctly, Roger Clemens had major shoulder surgery early in his career and then never had another major issue(injury-wise) I believe he actually hurt the shoulder in game in which he dominated us. Hopefully this is just a very minor deal for Joba, but regardless it is not automatically the end of the world.
SJ44, I’m sorry, but that is silly. Your telling me that hypothetically, if he has an injury that normally takes 1 week to heal, and docs clear him after that, you still would not pitch him? That is babying to a ridiculous degree. At what point in his career do you let him just pitch, when do the kid gloves come off? I understand DLing him or being cautious, but just saying “he’s done” is preposterous in my book.
As far as all this Pujols vs A-Rod stuff, last year at this time nobody in their right mind would have said Pujols was better. The thinking then was that A-Rod had passed Pujols and was pulling away. 2006, exact opposite. Pujols was god and A-Rod just had too many different issues at the plate and in the field to come close.
My point is that in my mind they’re basically equal. I dont think there’s any point in debating which one is better because they never both have a great year in the same season, so you’ll always get a different answer to this question depending on when you ask it. It’s really a flavor of the month (or the year) thing when it comes to comparison between these two beasts.
“On another topic, going back to yesterday. Some idiots were psychoanalyzing Kennedy, jumping to conclusions, making twisted assumptions and coming up with stuff about his character & attitude”
Wow. You’re coming down kinda hard on Trisha….
And by the way, my A-Rod parts in there are sarcastic remarks. I am a huge A-Rod supporter no matter what. Only person in our lineup I have more faith in in a big spot right now is Nady, that is saying something. Nobody is getting it done, so stop killing the man.
“Joe Morgan: (10:58 AM ET ) Well I will not compare them to my Reds team, because my Reds team in my opinion was an All-Time great and we do not know that about the Angels yet.”
Did someone actually compare the Angels with the 70’s Reds, or did Joe Morgan just voluntarily say that?
I hate to be the naysayer on here, but the Yankees just aren’t able to stay intact. Its one injury after another and this latest one is the worst blow we could have suffered past losing Wang.
This team can’t keep plugging mediocrity into their lineup. Giese may have earned a shot, but who are we kidding, he can’t fill Joba’s shoes regardless of whether he is being asked to.
This might have been the final straw for 2008.
Edit: They can’t keep plugging mediocrity into their *rotation*.
Don’t get we wrong…I am not ready to say that the season is over.
I wanted to see what other people on here thought. IF Joba’s injury IS significant, is that too much of a strain on what this team has accomplished given its various problems this season?
The Yankees have suffered a vast majority of their injuries to key players this season yet we have stayed afloat this entire time. If this injury is severe, or they decide it is not severe but want to shut him down for precautionary reasons, do you think we can overcome this obstacle?
On another subject, since Pudge has gotten here, our starters and our bullpen have not been nearly as good as they have been. Is this an annomoly, a coincidence, or an adjustment? And, please note that I am not blaming Pudge.
MATT LI
believe me when i say you’ve made my day that much better
all of the crap the yankees have gone through and yet we are still in it, and i doubt any of the other contenders can say the same
this is just one more obstacle in a bumpy year, i dont expect a world series championship but im proud of our team to actually have all these injuries and yet still be in the race
GO YANKEES.
“Girardi played it the only way he could play it last night. ”
On this blog, Girardi never does any wrong. Every move was the right one made.
In the past week or so..
It was smart to bring Mo in a tie game because that’s what you do in those situations.. Even though Mo at the time gave up 6 of his 7 runs in non save situations.
It was smart to leave Edwar in a game where he was all over the place. What happens? He loads up the bases and gives up a grand slam.
Another smart move was last night with Marte. The guy had nothing. His fastball was up on every pitch. He walks the bases loaded. What happens? Another grand slam.
We are in 3rd place for a reason and it’s not because of injuries.
ANSKY,
I can accept that, but I’m confused about how a private moment became public. And if what you’re telling me is true, that he said it to his wife in the car on the way to the minor league assignment, then that’s all I need to know. He was bitching about the Yankees. Part of a wife’s job is to listen when their husbands are frustrated about work. He’s not telling her he’s going to make the batters look stupid. If it’s the guys in the dugout, I can believe that, but not the wife in the car.
“If I’m the Yankees, he’s done this year. I don’t care how he feels, he’s done.”
Well I’m happy your not.
There is being cautious and there is crazy. That’s crazy. How about we wait until the MRI before we jump out of a window?
BBB
Good points–also, I think that Angels fans have to wonder about where Vlad is right now–they are winning so it isn’t a topic, but his numbers are way off this year. Ichiro is not hitting over .320, and if he isn’t what really is his offensive value? Ortiz is having a bad year, marked by injuries, but with his lack of conditioning that is not unexpected. Great players have bad years, it is a game of failure. We should be thankful that Arod’s worst years are .290 35 hrs 110 rbi
Anyone read the radio interview Jeff Nelson did in Seattle? When asked which former player was the best beer drinker?
Great story about Wade Boggs, who, in great detail by Nelly, is described as polishing off 50 beers from takeoff in NY/NY to his final destination in Washington.
Unbelieveable stuff – will try to find the link.
The kicker to this is that the radio guys called Paul Sorrento after Nelly’s story, and Sorrento immediately backed up Nelly’s tale.
Boggs could really throw’em down. Miller Lite only.
He was never without a six pack.
Hopefully Joba’s MRI today shows some kind of muscle strain outside of his rotator cuff or another injury that is not that serious.
They are not going to take any chances with him. None. The long term health of his shoulder dwarfs this season.
He’s the best young pitcher the organization has had in at least 30 years. He and ARod are by far the most important players in the organization. You can’t take any chances with him.
If it is a muscular problem like a deltoid strain (fingers crossed) that will heal. But with injuries like that to pitchers what you worry most about is a secondary injury caused by an alteration in mechanics.
Joba generates amazing arm speed. When you have that kind of dynamic arm you’re generating a lot of force and torgue. (Especially true of his slider). If his mechanics aren’t 100% back to baseline there’s definitely a chance he could suffer an even worse injury to his arm.
They can’t afford to take any chances on that. Joba felt discomfort last night in the 4th innings and didn’t say anything. They can only afford to partially believe what he says in terms of how he feels. Not a knock on Joba in any way – he’s a young, competitive guy who wants to help the team now. But they have to completely factor out his enthusiasm and eagerness when devising his rehab program and time line.
Again we have to see what the MRI shows. But let’s just assume that he misses the rest of the season to assess what happens to the team in the short term.
Joba would be making 10 starts the rest of the season. Let’s say they would win 7 of those 10 starts. Perhaps 8.
If you assume that they would go 5-5 in the games Joba’s replacment makes then they would have to make up 2-3 additional wins elsewhere. That is a difficult chore with only 50 games remaining. But it’s possible.
To make up 2-3 wins the offense would have to score an extra 20-30 runs. Alternatively maybe Andy and Moose could bear down and each squeeze out an extra win. Or Joba’s replacement could surprise and maybe allow the team to go 6-4 in those additional games.
If the games Joba’s replacement pitches the team goes 3-7 or 2-8 then that’s probably the season.
I think that’s what losing Joba in the short run for this season means for the team.
If Joba’s replacement is mediocre they could make up the difference elsewhere or with additional offense. Now whether they can muster that additional offense is a question, but it’s at least possible.
If they do worse than mediocre in the games Joba’s replacement pitches then it’s a tall order.
It’s not this straightforward – but that’s a rough estimate.
Probably the extenuating factor in all of this is the fact that losing Joba would probably keep Ponson or Rasner in the rotation for the rest of the year. So even if Hughes and Kennedy were to pitch well, losing Joba would keep ponson or rasner in the rotation negating some of those gains.
It will be very tough but it’s still doable. It really will largely depend on the offense.
SJ
That he said he heard/felt a pop … well maybe its a little worse than just stiffness. You just have to hope its not worse than just something within the muscle, which is what the MRI is supposed to help determine. Turns out to be a slight pull? OK you sit him longer and say at least its not another kind of soft tissue injury. Best case, maybe it was a little cramp from not being hydrated enough. Cross your fingers.
Hopefully Dave Eiland & Nardi Contreras know what he means the same way you say Girardi understands what Mariano really means. We all know what you mean on that subject … Jeter saying ‘I’m ready to go’ could really mean that a crushed pelvis from the day before hasn’t quite healed yet.
so does this make a CC signing almost a lock?
Some folks on this blog have completely misrepresented Kennedy’s comments.
His, “I’m going to make them look silly comments”, was from an interview in which he said he was telling his wife what he was going to do to the HITTERS in his first AAA start.
He made it clear what he was talking about in that interview. Its just much easier to throw darts at the kid (especially if you have an axe to grind with him) by not putting that interview in the proper context.
That’s not what ticked off the Yankees. Nor were they ticked off at some of his post-game comments. Another source of misrepresentation by some blog members.
What ticked off the Yankees was Kennedy not believing he needed to go to AAA to work on his game. THAT is what ticked them off. They felt he was feeling too “big league” in that regard. I agree with them on that point.
Are they still down on him now? Not as much as they had been because Nardi Contreras had a,come to Jesus talk with him and laid out what he had to do to get back into the good graces of the organization.
Giese was named the starter because they didn’t want to DFA Rasner. If they call up Kennedy, you have to make a corresponding move. Rasner is out of options. They would have had to DFA him and I don’t think they want to do that at this time.
That’s why, regardless of the MRI results, I think they will DL Joba and call up Kennedy (or somebody else) to make his start. That way, they don’t have to release Rasner to make the roster move.
“My point is that in my mind they’re basically equal. I dont think there’s any point in debating which one is better because they never both have a great year in the same season, so you’ll always get a different answer to this question depending on when you ask it. It’s really a flavor of the month (or the year) thing when it comes to comparison between these two beasts”
I think it’s just easier to say that Pujols is the best hitter in baseball and A-Rod is the best player.
Pujols hasn’t hit under 325 since 2002, do you know how ridiculous that is for a power hitter? Another thing I love about Pujols is his lack of strikeouts. Basically 50 a year, x3 and you A-Rod in 1 year.
JR Yankees:
I believe it is an adjustment………
damon, arod, abreu, nady, cano, jeter, giambi, irod, cf. they have to get unclutch arod out of the middle of the order.
JR Yankees:
Remember early on the Yanks had to adjust to Molina….
You guys do realize the right now the only pitcher in our rotation who was in the rotation on opening day is Mike Mussina?
1) It’s a small miracle we’re still in contention, and
2) Who saw that one coming?
Nobody is “jumping out a window” global. Simply offering an opinion. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.
Let’s see how the Yankees play this. I don’t see any scenario in which they risk Joba unless they KNOW he’s 100%.
Not 90%, 95%, even 99%. 100%.
If he isn’t, I wouldn’t risk him and neither are they despite what some may desire.
Another thing that I am not sure was mentioned yet. If Joba sits out for 2-3 weeks and misses 4-5 starts, that is 30-35IP he misses out on…or more if they shut him down. That is going to effect him next season as well.
Sj44, I think everyone agrees on that point. I took issue with the fact that you said unequivocally that he is done regardless of anything that may happen in terms of the MRI and how he feels.
SJ and CB –
Great having you two guys on this blog.
Always appreciate what you have to say.
CB – your last post was right on. A great way to look at the potential impact of Joba’s loss, and what’s needed out of a fill-in starter (or current starters) to make up the difference.
“Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I thought Kennedy’s “I’m going to make them look stupid†quote was aimed towards the Yankees for sending him down?”
You are wrong. I have no idea where this came from. Kennedy was referring to the AAA hitters he was going to face in his first game back. He was saying he had the feeling that he was going to make the AAA hitters look “stupid” because he felt like he was throwing better.
Here is the original quote in context from Chad Jennings – Jennings himself never even interpreted for a second that Kennedy was referring to the yankees front office.
http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.com/Blogs/SWBYankeesBlog/tabid/552/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3478/Wrapping-up-Ian-Kennedy.aspx
Mel – Maybe he was just talking to someone (who knows who) about the conversation he’d had with her, in a way that put his mindset in perspective. As far as I know, people do it all the time without being arrogant. Yes, some people are arrogant or boastful when they do so, but that’s not necessarily the case all the time.
Now I wasn’t in the car with him & his wife, nor was I in the conversation where he may have mentioned it. Nor were you. But I won’t just assume it to be anything more than what I was just describing unless he starts sounding like Manny (my team doesn’t deserve me) or Jonathan Papelbon (I should close the all star game not Mariano) in the future. I also won’t maintain a hair trigger sensitivity toward his comments either.
“I think it’s just easier to say that Pujols is the best hitter in baseball and A-Rod is the best player.”
Yeah, that sounds fair.
And Pujols’ strikeout to walk ratio is indeed droolworthy. Same with a guy like Chase Utley. I wish they would work with some of our players on that!
Mark in Tampa
August 5th, 2008 at 11:36 am
If I recall correctly, Roger Clemens had major shoulder surgery early in his career and then never had another major issue(injury-wise) I believe he actually hurt the shoulder in game in which he dominated us. Hopefully this is just a very minor deal for Joba, but regardless it is not automatically the end of the world.
He was on steroids & HGH all those years. Thats y he had no injuries. Don’t compare Joba and Roger.
SJ44:
I agree I think Kennedy read to many paper’s an got a case of the Big-head. He was brought to earth quickly by major league hitter’s. I believe he will be a different (for the better) this time around..
Danielle, yes we will do this………….
I’m sure the Yanks will be hyper-cautious with Joba, but trying to diagnose his injury from the video and a quote is pretty brainless. Most MRI exams show no structural damage, so indeed it could be a evere cramp. It’s probably not but it could be.
SJ— I agree with you a lot but while the first balk was picky, (correct, nbut picky) the second was blatant and automatic. Just because it took Cone and Singleton ten minutes to figure out what the hell happened doesn’t change the fact that Padilla was on the rubber and stepped back with his left leg which initiates the pitch (for a RHP). Once you do that, you MUST pitch. Sure it was a break for the Yanks, but the only thing that made it picky was the ineptitude in the booth, despite mutiple clear replays from the guys in the Yes truck.
SJ44 I offered my opinion, get over it.
Anyway there is a difference between “shutting him down no matter what” and “playing him only if %100″.
SJ,
That’s it then? I can accept all that.
I don’t have an axe to grind with Kennedy. Anyone who reads the blog knows that I’ve always been a big supporter of Kennedy.
It’s just that I’m big on respect and raise my own kids in such a way. I cannot stand brats and trash talkers. By recounting what he told his wife, he was being cute.
You’re also confirming the whispers of attitude issues. We know Kennedy’s a good, humble kid so when we hear these whispers they kind of grab your attention. If those are fixed, then it’s all good.
The Ian hate is hilarious. People don’t have a clue, taking quotes out of context. One fan says something negative and it grows like wildfire on the internet. Lay off the kid.
It doesn’t seem to me that anyone sees this season for what it’s been so far: that is, rather amazing. In a way, quite dramatic, too. Really incredible, in fact. A string of seemingly devastating injuries — Wang, Posada, Matsui, now Joba. Maybe Mo, too. Extremely low performance from other players. (I won’t mention Jeter out of respect.) And here it is, August 5, and we’re still really in the hunt for a playoff spot. If that’s not amazing, than I don’t know what is.
Moshe,
My point is, how Joba feels is irrelevent to the decision. He didn’t tell them he was hurt last night until an inning later.
You have to be proactive and take the decisions out of the players hands.
Guys like Joba, Mariano, Posada, even Hughes will ALWAYS say they are ok and ready to go. That’s how they are wired.
If the MRI comes back with a strained deltoid, I wouldn’t pitch him the rest of the way.
Why? “Strain”=”tear”. A strain is a tear. That means, a muscle has been torn and needs to be healed.
Could he be ok in two weeks? Perhaps. If he is, and tries to pitch and adjusts his mechanics ever so slightly to prevent re-injuring it (which is a natural thing to do), you have big problems.
That’s how Mark Prior broke down.
You can’t mess with his future.
The Yankees, who are usually cautious when it comes to injuries, will be even moreso in this case. In many ways, the future of this organization is tied to Joba.
Unless the MRI comes up completely clean, (I mean, no strain, no nothing), there is no way I’d risk pitching him again this year.
If he needs another 20-30 innings to hit his innings cap, he can get them in AZ or in winter ball.
I saw Girardi saying Kennedy had to earn his way back as a good motivation tactic. If something was missing from Kennedy’s mindset before or after he got send down, maybe that’s the kind of kick he needed to get it in gear.
im no trained umpire but when padilla shuffled his feet with damon on 3rd, i yelled balk along with the ump. he started with his lift leg and then just stopped. it was an obvious balk if i can spot it.
Sigmund:
I totally agree……..as I’ve stated in previous post’s….
No one is talking about the other “big pop” last night – the one in Papi’s wrist. He tells the Herald that he felt a pop in his wrist in his last at bat against Soria last night (oh yeah way clutch by Big Papi not to hit a home run to give the Red Sox the lead).
Since he came back from injury on fire, he has substantially cooled off. Some is probably the wrist and more recently pitchers not having to worry about Manny.
This season is definately not over yet as it seems is the consensus today. The Yankees have had terrible luck with injuries this year but are only 2 losses out of the playoffs. Tampa has a hellacious Sept. schedule and if the Red Sox are now down Manny and Ortiz, with Bucholz suffering as a starter, both are catchable if the Yankees can get it going.
“You guys do realize the right now the only pitcher in our rotation who was in the rotation on opening day is Mike Mussina?
1) It’s a small miracle we’re still in contention, and
2) Who saw that one coming?”
Actually I did read back in the spring about how Cashman was taking on a lot of injury risk given that the most common time (for injuries)in a pitcher’s career are the first 3 and last 3 years. So given the 6 starters (Mussina, Pettitte, Wang, Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba), only Wang was considered a low risk. Wish I could remember who wrote that.
SJ44:
I agree on the Joba issue, and if it’s clean they will still (maybe not shut him down) but he will not pitch for a good while………
SJ44, fair enough. I just think being cautious might mean giving a month for a two week injury, while shutting him down is overly cautious. But I can fully understand the idea of not trusting Joba in terms of how he feels.
I’m really ready for IPK to make an impact on this team…
sigmund:
it is amazing
just as amazing as giambi’s mustache was
but in the end we all know how that turned out….
But hey now he shaved it and hes all giambino again
so amazing it is
“You guys do realize the right now the only pitcher in our rotation who was in the rotation on opening day is Mike Mussina?”
Isn’t Pettitte still with the team???
Wasn’t Pettitte on the DL to start the season? If so, then Rebecca’s point is accurate.
jason,
I thought it was a pop, but it was a click. They said the doctors said things might move around. Before that at-bat, though Francona though he was “having difficulty catching up to the fastball”. His stats are in the boston herald article. 3 for his last 27. Status questionable for tonight.
‘I’m really ready for IPK to make an impact on this team…”
Sadly, he’s already made an impact.
I’d guess you’re talking about a POSITIVE impact though.
yeah cashman was gambling with a 28 yr old starter Wang and a bunch of other young guys.
you monday morning quarterbacks are a joke.. Joba is 22, Hughes even younger, if the young guys get hurt as often as the older guys you have no alternatives…Wang got hurt running the BASES…..
Hughes may need to get his pitch count up at the ML level, screw it put him on a 80 pitch count next outing in the majors, why the hell not?????the low risk BS.. ALL pitchers are high risk if you have not noticed pitching is not good for your body unless you throw underhand….
again the yanks have had a lot of bad luck on and off the field but the offense has not done it’s job…….The key is there offense has not come thru, that is the reason they are in this position……..
This season be damned. I mean that. You can not risk Joba’s health under ANY circumstances.
Good Lord, if Chamberlain suffers a serious shoulder injury because the Yankees rush him out there, then the course of the whole franchise will change. The Yankees ace in the making would be gone, and the staff is littered with nothing but question marks for next season.
The Yankees would have to make an even more serious push to sign Sabbathia at that point.
Sit Joba until the end of the season as far as I’m concerned. His health is of the utmost importance. He is the most important player in the franchise.
Fredo-
Hah, yea. Failed to mention that key word.
What’s funny to me is that Chase Wright is being overlooked all he did was hold Pawtucket to 3 hits yesterday, you know there is alot of Ted Lilly in that guy, you have to consider him as an option he’s been earning it since April
To clarify on what I wrote before about Joba’s impact on the Yankees this season were he to miss the rest of the season:
The yankees are currently 2 games behind in the wild card race loss column with 50 games to play.
Without Joba you could roughly think of the yankees as being 6-7 behind the wild card leader with 50 games to play. That would be a rough estimate of the challenge they face from here on out until the end of the season to make the playoffs.
They’re 6 games back in the loss column to tampa for the division. Without Joba they are effectively 10-11 games behind the division leader with 50 games to play.
Quick math – but that’s roughly where they would stand today if he could not pitch the rest of the season.
Not saying he will miss the rest of the season – just laying out the worst case scenario for this season as people have been discussing whether the season is “over” or not without him.
The pop sound Ortiz heard could just be scar tissue loosening up. If thats all it was, it shouldn’t be a setback for him in the long run.
Hopefully it’ll be that simple for Joba too, but he shouldn’t have any scar tissue in there in the first place.
Hi guys…it’s been awhile since I posted, but I just had to jump in here.
I find it funny that no one wants to take a chance with Joba (and rightly so), but they don’t have a problem taking a chance with Phil, who is a prized “possession†in his own right. I’m not saying that I’ve seen these types of comments here, but elsewhere, people are talking about putting Phil on the fast track. They were doing that before Joba’s injury and now it’s getting worse. We all know what kind of pitcher Phil can be and it’s fantastic that it seems like he’s back to his “old†self (if you can have an old self at 22, lol). However, he’s still recovering from his own injury….plus, because he was absolutely rushed last year, he’s not had the chance to refine his repertoire (like the changeup). Regardless of whether or not Joba comes back, Phil should stay down in the minors until he shows that he’s absolutely read to take on big league hitters again. I know we all get ramped up about Joba , but Phil was the #1 pitching prospect in baseball and the guy the Yankees groomed to be their ace. He doesn’t throw like Joba, but he doesn’t have to – he’s got the goods to be a stud. I’m not trying to compare the two kids at all – I hope they turn out to be a tremendous tandem in the future. My point is really that Phil has to be treated very carefully, just like Joba. If the Yankees miss the playoffs, well, then – so be it. This is Phil’s career at stake – the Yankees have to put his needs ahead of their desire to win NOW.
I think it was SJ44 who mentioned Joba pitching through pain and how his teammates love that warrior mentality (but that it drives teams nuts). Phil did that same thing with what turned out to be a stress fracture and I never could understand that (but then, I’m not an athlete in any way shape or form). These guys’ competitive juices are what makes them who they are, but playing through injuries not only hurts the team, but themselves. Phil lost most of his year because of that.
“Wasn’t Pettitte on the DL to start the season? If so, then Rebecca’s point is accurate.”
I don’t know. His 1st start was on 4/5. It was the 5th game of the season, so he I suppose he could have been on the DL, but he did not miss a turn.
Hughes is healthy now so it is not risking him to pitch him.again just limit his pitches to build arm strength and he should be fine..
all of you who have posted that this players need to be honest when something is not right are correct, Joba should have told Girardi in the 4th, foolish foolish move.. will these guys ever learn…
joba has 46-51 innings left to pitch to hit his limit. if he misses 3 starts, he can still get very close to his limit and that assumes no PS innings.
im not gonna speculate that this is a big injury until and unless i hear that from the yankees medical staff.
so it is certainly possible that joba will pitch all the innings he’s allowed to and the yankees would have needed someone else to make 2 starts in his place anyway to keep him under his cap.
if joba misses 4-6 weeks and the yankees miss the PS, they can get him up to his cap with the fall league.
so until i hear some bad news, i dont consider this too big a blow to this team. the pitching has been good enough fo this team to be in first place right now, but the offense hasnt held up its end. now either the offense carries this team for the last 7 weeks or we miss the PS.
its the bats, not the arms.
Honestly, I would doubt if this was anything serious. In my opinion, he should be back after a week or two. Do you guys think that they might try him as setup man again if might have a problem?
Brandon,
He’s in the pecking order I posted at 10:30 a.m. I knew his name wasn’t Steven White, but I couldn’t remember his name so I just put Chase down as the guy who have up 4 dingers.
lol @ red sox fans. on the espn conversation on the ortiz wrist thing, someone said, “we talk about the red sox and sometimes the yankees, so forgive us if we don’t want to hear about how great the white sox are on an ortiz thread”. haha.
Hey here’s a guy that can be a legit backend SP
Hm, I dunno if this has already been mentioned but I saw an article in one of my state papers stating that star Clemson (go tigers!) pitcher DJ Mitchell is likely to sign with the Yankees. He was our 10th round draft pick and was 1st team all-acc this year.
http://www.thestate.com/tigers/story/480591.html
Even if the “pop” that Ortiz heard was nothing, it puts the idea into his head that the wrist is not at 100%. A careful Papi is less dangerous than a confident one.
Is Chase still on the 40 man roster?
Jennings report said he pitched really well last night – along with Coke
Brandon I absolutly agree with you that we need to give him at least a chance over Rasner or if Joba is going to miss a start and the other guys are not ready than Wright needs to get a shot, Why not
Pettite started the season on the DL – I think it was his back.
He didn’t miss a turn in the rotation – they gave him a couple of extra days. But putting him on the DL reshuffled the rotation and that was why Hughes and Kennedy wound up pitching back to back. That was part of what was taxing the bull pen so much to start the season as both of them were not going deep into games on consecutive starts.
I believe the original rotation was wang, pettite, hughes, mussina, and kennedy. Pettite getting injured led to wang, hughes, kennedy, mussina, pettite, as I remember.
Anyone who has played competetive sports will tell you that there’s a difference playing with pain and playing hurt….
Yes Wright is on are 40 man
The Red Sox are on a slippery slope here.
Ortiz situation is like Posada’s. If he blows that wrist out, that’s an injury that may impact his start to next season.
Its also an injury that takes about a full year to heal if you do indeed blow it out.
Derek Lee of the Cubs suffered a similar injury (once the tendon tore from the sheath) and he said it was a year before he felt he had his bat speed and power back up to snuff.
Without Manny, if Ortiz blows out that wrist, the Red Sox are in big trouble. Not just for this season but, for next year.
Not exactly a lot of Big Papi’s on the open market.
i liked what i saw from vincente padilla yesterday
trade for him
mark –
Are you trying to make yankee games 5 hours long? Let him stew in the Texas heat if he can’t deliver a pitch in under a minute in the set.
I thought i was watching Trachsel.
Interesting read on pitcher’s injuries as related to age…
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1658
I agree on Wright. He is stretched out and is not a centerpiece that you would not jeopardize like Hughes and Joba.
Funny story, I was at the game Wright pitched in Fenway with my wife and friends from France who never saw a baseball game before. We were just talking about homeruns and soon enough there goes number 1… then 2 and I am like wow back to back doesn’t happen all that much.. then 3 this is pretty rare.. then 4 holy …!
Two comments – Wright pitched very well up until that point in the game. He has fought his way back so give him a chance and he is on the 40 man. We sat about one row from the Yankee bullpen and I saw Andy get up and I thought this is peculiar. He threw the ball so effortlessly it was amazing to watch from up close.
Regardless, the Sox still have good hitters. Pedroia the teeny bopper, Yuk the Clutch, Stupid Lucky Charm JD Drew. Or is Pedroia the Lucky Charm? Lowell who’s got a hip flexor thingy, but if he’s healthy he’s good. Casey with his .358 average.
TK,
The boy creating a buzz in DC, huh? I know it was against 3rd stringers, but I have to say all Colt’s ever done is win games. Funky delivery and all.
Mussina pitched game two, then Hughes, Kennedy and Pettite. WQang went 7, Mussina 5 2/3, Huighes 6, which is plenty for week one… then Kennedy got knocked out in 2 1/3 by Tampa
Padilla has always had a world of talent. I don’t care how much money is offered a pitcher has to be nuts to sign with the Rangers. They are in the WC hunt, so they’re not sellers at this time.
A-Rod might be the best all around player, but given the chance to unload his contract and homerun clause, you offer me Pujols straight up and I’m making that deal.
Those of you feeling positive that CC will come to NY, my guess he stays in NL.
The Braves and us have had more significant injuries than any team in baseball. Reality is we’re still in the race!
Reality also is we probably have the toughest remaining schedule amongst contenders.
Joba will not pitch until he’s 100%.
Likelihood if it’s 100 degrees tonight that starters will not go more than 5-6 innings, unless they can pitch with IV hookups!!
We have 9 more away games on this trip, perfect chance for the most ready pitcher in AAA, to come up. If Rasner can’t pitch due to blister, put him on DL and bring up Melancon plus a starter.
“A-Rod might be the best all around player, but given the chance to unload his contract and homerun clause, you offer me Pujols straight up and I’m making that deal.”
Why do you care how the Steinbrenner’s spend their money?
Hey Brandon:
I see that Chase Wright has given up only 5 HRs in 110+IP. Isn’t that one more than he gave up in less than 1/3IP in Fenway last year?
Even though that is true, I cannot see why we wouldn’t use him. He has been pretty consistent all year from what I can tell and hopefully he has built his confidence back up from that horrid night in Boston.
Plus, he’s a lefty so thats a bonus too.
god no. keep Padilla out of pinstripes. he looked like a decent 4th starter; but still, this is a spectator sport and should be entertaining. Padilla’s slow to the point of torture.
I’d say us or the Rays (in our division) have the toughest remaining schedule. Us, because we still have all of our trips and limited amount of off days. Rays, they have a lot of road games to play and they are terrible on the road. Sox finish up septemeber at home, pretty much the whole month. If you want to talk about everybody, I think the ChiSox have the toughest schedule. Play a lot of contenders from here on out.
Mel,
If Ortiz is hurt or less than 100% that really weakens the Sox lineup. Lowell missed yesterdays game as well. They have some good, professional hitters but Ellsbury has come way back to earth this year, Varitek makes Melky look like Babe Ruth, and you still have Coco, Lowrie (a rookie but hitting pretty well), and then a Ortiz replacement like Casey.
Beckett has not been the same as last year, neither has Okajima. Daisuke has been great and not great all at the same time.
If Ortiz is much less than 100% or out I very much like our chances of catching the Sox. Although, it will ironically make the chance of catching the Rays that much harder as those two teams play 6 times in Sept.
Coach J he seriously can’t be worse than Rasner, the guy would have been in AAA had Kei Igawa not been robbing spots up there. Chase has added a curveball to his arsenal so now he has 3 pitches the fastball, changeup and curveball (which is decent) when he came up he was a one pitch pitcher basically change up or nothing and those type of SP don’t have longterm success or even short term he deserves a shot.
Would the Yankees consider bringing up Chase Wright who seems to be pitching well this season? He has 3 pitches working and is on the 40 man roster already. If they want Kennedy to continue working on things in AAA should Chase Wright get the callup?
What exactly does Richie Sexon contribute to the team?
I dont believe the Yankees are going to call up Melancon … I remember reading somewhere that the organization policy with pitchers coming back from surgery is that the first year back is treated as a rehab year.
Melancon figures to be a big part of the team’s long range plans and I dont think the Yankees will deviate from their policy of treating 2008 as a rehab year after he has come back from TJ surgery. He is too important a commodity to jeopardize just because he can potentially be a “quick fix”.
The name no one seems to mention is Scott Strickland. He has ML experience and has been pitching great at SWB/WB all year. Why not give him a shot if another arm is needed?
Redding – Don’t you know he is the starting power forward (alongside Andrew Brackman) for the Yankees pick-up basketball squad.
So Chase Wright is the new schoolboy crush, then?
Wright makes sense because he’s already lined up with Joba, so itd be his regular turn in the rotation, and he’s on the 40 man.
I dont know the Halos splits against lefties, but at this point, who else do they have to legitimately take his place?
IPK? dont think so. if he were ready, theyd have called him up for Friday’s start.
give it to Rasner? cant see that happening, being as though they took him out of the rotation for a reason.
Aceves? idk, relatively uproven in Scranton after coming back from the injury.
Hughes and Pavano are both pitching late this week, so neither will be ready for Saturday, even if they pushed it.
unless they pull a move out of their arse, i dont see where else they can find a pitcher.
Jason,
I know, I’m just being cautious to hide my glee. Really enjoying watching Manny destroy NL pitching. Maybe karma will pay the Red Sox players and FO a visit for trashing Manny.
Dice-K is really irritating me. It’s turning out that he’s more good than lucky.
Right now the Sox appear more vulnerable than the Rays, but you never count out the Sox just like you never count out the Yankees.
Agreed TT.
Wright lines up well and makes sense for a bit. I just can;t see the Yankees rushing Hughes. I think it took many by surprise that he is already in SWB. He needs a few starts to get comfortable. But my wildly optimistic guess is that we reprise the Hughes from last Sept.
Mike and the Mad Dog live @ Giants camp today.
How much you want to bet Mike attributes Joba’s injury to being a starter instead of a reliever, and demands he be put back in the pen while we acquire Arroyo through waivers?
Can anyone confirm if Giese is still getting Friday’s start?
It wasn’t a pop or clicking sound that Ortiz heard. It was a flushing sound as his career went down the toilet back to his pre-Manny Minnesota days. I think that he and Manny developed a synergy or friendly competition that made both of them better. It is rare for something like that to happen in a mostly individual sport like baseball. I think, seriously, that he will still be better than his futile Twins days, we may have (hopefully) seen the end of Big Papi as a devastating force.
Anyone else think the Pavano bashing is getting old?
“Maybe karma will pay the Red Sox players and FO a visit for trashing Manny.”
Nobody did more trashing of Ramirez’s reputation than Ramirez himself. Nice to see him hitting well out there, but he’s already dogged it in the field and he’s been there 4 days. He’s cost himself a lot of scratch by “being Manny”. If the Yanks come near him in free agency I may start rooting for the Rays.
“Let him stew in the Texas heat if he can’t deliver a pitch in under a minute in the set.
I thought i was watching Trachsel.”
Speaking of which, that reminds me -
I asked this last night but…
Wasn’t there a rule instituted in the beginning of 2007 that a pitcher could only hold the set for X amount of seconds before delivering the pitch? And that if he exceeded that time limit, it was an automatic balk?
I swear I remember MLB making that rule. The quoted comment reminded me of it yet again cause my friend always calls it the Steve Traschel Rule.
But anyway, under that rule, shouldn’t Padilla have been called for about 10 different balks? He actually got off very easy with the 2 last night if you ask me, so I don’t see how Texas or the posters on here could say those were bad calls. Hardly – those are the rules and they were bent for him as it was.
The Angels hit a collective .278/.338/.407 vs LHP
OBP/SLG
Kendrick .403/.532
Mathis .393/.520
Hunter .369/.495
VLAD .320/.432
Tex .383/.521 (depending which Tex plays)
Get through this road trip at .500 and focus on an above .500 second half of August, with possibly Hughes joining the rotation in Joba’s spot.
A September rotation of Petttte, Moose, Hughes, IPK and Wright/Rasner/Ponson may just keep us afloat for the WC.
I have a feeling that Cashman may call up Melancon for Sep. based on how well we stay in this race over the next two weeks.
BTW, SJ44, I would add one caveat to your assessment, with which I otherwise reluctantly agree– reluctantly agree about shutting Joba down because I think this year may be the Yankees’ best chance to make the playoff for the forseeable future.
My caveat is this: if the Yankees do indeed decide to disable him indefinitely, they’re not going to tell us.
Extrapolating from how they’ve handled serious injuries, at this time of the year, in the past– see Mo (2006) Clemens (2008)– this how, I gather they’ll proceed.
They’ll disable Joba without excluding the possibility of his returning. And then as the season progresses, they’ll continue to defer the projected date of his return until the season finally expires.
This way Cashman doesn’t look desperate and can perhaps supplement his rotation with a waiver-trade that doesn’t cost him much.
People keep calling this year a transition year but a transition year to what exactly– permanent status as a 3rd place team?
The Yankeees aren’t the Red Sux or the Rays. They don’t have 4 young position players (Perdroia, Youklis, Ellsbury, Lowrie) who only will improve with age. The Yankees are an old team at every position, except 2nd base and in CF, and their CF is a fourth outfielder. Everywhere else they’re 33 years of age or older.
And with the exception of A-Rod, and perhaps Damon, every one of them has regressed from the numbers they produced in their prime and will continue to do so. Age does that unless you take steroids.
Worse, the Yankees’ best position player prospects are at least two years away from having an impact on the major league roster. By then, A-Rod will be 35, Jeter 36, Posada 39, and MO 41. And fewer and fewer impact free-agents hit the market each year and when they do they’re overpriced. You think the Yankee are going to pay either or both Boras clients, Teixiera (in ‘08) or Holliday (in ‘09), $200 million?
Yes, the Yankees have a number of premiere pitching prospects but a dominating pitching staff alone won’t make a team competitive. Just look at the Blue Jays and Athletics.
Tank that is a suckers bet. I already heard someone on the radio alude to that.
From BP Prospectus
——————–
Joba Chamberlain (TBD)
I finally got on a plane around 9:00 p.m., and later, when we landed and I switched my phone back on, it nearly exploded. Somewhere in between was the scene that struck fear into hundreds of Yankees fans, because Chamberlain came out of the game while pointing to the outside of his shoulder. The early word is that his muscle tightened up due to a combination of the blistering heat (I sat in that heat the night before, and yeah, it’s a huge factor) and fatigue. It’s the latter that’s most worrisome given Chamberlain’s switch of roles. While he built up his arm strength, no one has any idea how the fatigue will be affected by the shape of his season. He’s headed back to New York for tests, so we’ll know more soon, but early reports and sources tell me that things look relatively positive, based both on the pain’s location, and on his reaction. Expect the Yanks to be ultra-conservative, and for Chamberlain to miss a start at least. We’ll know more after the images, but I’ll leave the DXL as a TBD for now.
Does Liriano line up with us next week?
mel –
just caught your post –
I’m a Giants fan but here in DC if a backup quarterback ties his shoes properly the local media wants a slot for him in Canton’s HOF.
Colt has a lot of personality but the ’system quarterback’ tag will be on him until he gets a real shot against 1’s or 2’s. He’s a good story though (and I think they cut Carson Palmer’s little brother to sign him)
BBB – I am part of the NJEA, like your mother is. It is the only teacher’s union in NJ, and I agree with your sentiment that for every good teacher that cares about their students and works their tail off (myself included, of course), there are 3 that coast and just collect a paycheck. It offends me, because it is part of the reason teachers get a bad wrap.
Anyway, as for baseball…Chase Wright is not ready. He was just promoted to AAA after being down in AA due to his post-traumatic stress disorder from getting creamed at Fenway last year. He is not the answer…in the least.
As for IPK, I don’t hate, I just don’t like his “deserving” attitude. I can only blame the Yanks for that, for rushing him, yet no one is entitled to any slot, and its been noted that he believed he was.
As for getting Washburn, he will clear waivers because of his salary. No one wants to eat it for the rest of this year and next…except the Yankees, if they are desperate…and I think we’re getting close to that. I have to give Cashman and Girardi credit for holding this ship afloat…I just don’t know how much longer it can be done with guys of good caliber going down.
David Cone,
no, scheduled to pitch Saturday.
“Does Liriano line up with us next week?”
Doesn’t look like it. Liriano is next scheduled to go on 8/9. Yanks are in the baggy-Dome for 8/11-8/13 I believe.
Anyway, as for baseball…Chase Wright is not ready. He was just promoted to AAA after being down in AA due to his post-traumatic stress disorder from getting creamed at Fenway last year. He is not the answer…in the least.
How many times are fans going to hold that over his head ? He was rushed and was a 1 pitch pitcher at that time. Check his splits this season, he should have been in AAA if not for White and Igawa taking up roster spots. He came back from injury a few weeks ago and hasn’t skipped a beat.
we’ve got texas and minny on this trip, twins are a game ahead of us and rangers 2 1/2 back. if we dont beat both teams back on this roadtrip, we’re gonna have to start hoping for other teams to fold in order to make the PS.
enough about all the injuries, etc. we didnt do anything when we had everybody together anyway. the 25 guys suited up tonight (more likely tomorrow actually) have to win games and not worry about who’s not there.
the time is now, not next week or next month.
He was rushed…as you put it. As a result, he’s not ready, seeing as how he just got back to AAA. Would you throw him into the fire right now, when wins are the most significant? At least Hughes/Kennedy have the experience from last year.
Wright had pretty solid numbers over 94IP at Trenton, too, not just his more recent small sample size of AAA.
94IP, 84H, 30+BB, 50+K
“Anyone else think the Pavano bashing is getting old?”
Who is Pavano?
why not igawa?
he has shown he knows how to pitch and rafael chavez changed his arm slot so he gained a couple of ticks on his FB and has some movement.
NongEyeWayneTolleson simple question
Rasner or Chase right now… lets say it’s between these 2 who do you take ?
Mark –
You have uttered the inexcusable.
mark I love what Rafy does in fixing pitchers but Igawa is a hellllll no
Between the 2…Wright, just to see…but he’s not the next best option behind Rasner, so I don’t think the choice is fair.
Maddog – “The Giants won’t go 14-2″
No shyte, dude.
He’s on the 40 and would be the sensible pick.
Can’t wait to hear Russo attempt to say Osi’s name.
Looking towards next year, everybody seems to think it is a given that CC will get a lot of attention from the Yanks. I am totally against giving 7 years to any pitcher, let alone an overweight one with a hitch in his delivery that screams inconsistency over the long haul; and that is what it will likely take to land him.
However, I have not heard anybody talk about Ben Sheets. He has had some injury issues, but seems to be past that now, and as we just saw, any pitcher is one pitch away from injury. If he can be had for a four year deal, isn’t he a better pick up?
“If he can be had for a four year deal, isn’t he a better pick up?”
Dangerous. Guy came into ‘08 having averaged 135 IP over the three previous seasons. He’s never pitched in the AL. I just don’t see him as a real safe bet.
im with mark, i wouldnt give a fit pitcher a 7 yr deal, let alone an overweight one. nothing against heavy players but you have to think his size is going to become more and more of a factor as he ages into his 30’s. even a 5 yr deal is a big risk, but i wouldnt go any further than that on him, and even at 5 yrs id be very worried.
I’d have no problem with giving Chase a chance, I still think he can be a decent pitcher. He had absolutely no business being up last year when he was, what with the 2 career starts in Double A he had to his name at the time, so I don’t hold that against him. I think it set him back a while (was struggling in the minors along with Clippard last year after their respective demotions) but he appears to have worked through that now.
His control has been a lot better thus far this season right? As long as he has control I think he can get ML hitters out.
Without making a 40 man roster move assuming Joba does miss his next turn the choices are Kennedy, Wright or more Rasner. If the Yankees want Kennedy to continue working on things in AAA and Rasnor is going to stay in the pen it means the only logical choice is Chase Wright who lines up to pitch on Saturday.
Brandon I agreed and said Wright should be up, I think he is such a better option than Rasner. I absolutly say give this Kid a shot, Hes only 25 yrs old still. I think he could be a decent spot starter for us
I don’t think Joba being out for the season will hurt the Yanks as much as it would appear at first. He has 9 games left. Assume that he would have won 5 of them, lost 2, and got no-decisions for 2. Now replace him with a number 5 starter from the minor leagues (Kennedy). Do you think Kennedy can go 3-3-3 in the games he pitches? If so, then Joba’s injury only costs the Yanks 2 games. Two games, of course, is pretty big when you’re trying to catch-up, but if you agree with my math then it’s nothing near insurmountable.
Alvin—- Joba has three wins in 12 starts. Assuming he’d win 5 of 10 is more than a bit optimistic.
It’s time to call up Kennedy, toss Rasner, leave Giese in the pen since he’s pretty much proven he’s not a starter and call up Wright for Saturday.
It’s also time for Jeter, ARod, Giambi and Melky to start producing on a daily basis. No matter how the Yanks patch together a rotation, they still are more than a run a game down from last year.
I’m afraid they’ll be swept by the Rangers and overtaken. I’m starting to believe the “curse” has been transferred to A-Rod. As a fan, I was really disappointed in Joba’s whininess last night. I know he’ll be back, he just wanted some reason as to why he gave up so many runs.
I see the Angels losing the last three games to the Rangers on purpose so that they face them instead of the Yankees or Boston. Any takers?