The great Melky myth
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- August
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The Melky Cabrera Fan Club is a persistent bunch.
Joe Torre was a charter member. He used to say that the Melkman gave the team energy. He even kicked Johnny Damon out of center to give Melky a full-time job. Brian Cashman scoffed last winter at the idea of trading Cabrera.
Many fans are the same way. They love Melky. And Joe Girardi is with you.
Look at what happened in the seventh inning last night. In a critical point of the game, Girardi sent Cabrera up as a pinch hitter and used Pudge Rodriguez as a pinch runner. That would be the Pudge Rodriguez.
But Girardi was so determined to play the lefty/righty matchup game that he sent up the switch-hitting Cabrera. Plus, you know, he’s Melky.
Cabrera did what he normally does, he made an out. Cabrera is 68 of 301 (.226) since May 1 with 14 extra-base hits, 23 RBI and 24 runs scored.
Of the 11 players who have been regular center fielders in the American League this season, here is where Cabrera ranks:
10th in BA (.242)
10th in RBI (35)
10th in OBP (.298)
12th in runs (39)
11th in OPS (.638)
It’s a bit of toss-up with Nick Swisher. But you would take virtually every other CF in the league instead of Melky. Cabrera is at .260/.315/.370 since the start of the 2007 season. That’s 62 percent of his career. In other words, that is what he is, a .685 OPS guy. Given his decline since the start of the 2007 season, he’s probably not even that.
Yes, he’s an above-average defensive player (albeit 7th in range factor in the AL). But that is not compensating for his bat at this point. Torii Hunter, B.J. Upton, Jacoby Ellsbury (and Coco Crisp), Carlos Gomez and Curtis Granderson are better in the field. Probably Grady Sizemore, too.
One nice throw a week doesn’t make up for a .298 OBP. Not even close.
No, the Yankees don’t need an All-Star at every position. But $215 million should get a reasonably productive player at every position.
Cabrera will be back in the lineup tonight. But the Yankees have to hope that Austin Jackson (.294/.369/.445 at Trenton) or Brett Gardner makes a run at the job next spring. Cabrera is a decent player. But he’d be a nice fourth outfielder.
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on Wednesday, August 6th, 2008 at 12:50 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Looks like Pete will not be renewing his membership for “The Melky Cabrera Fan Club”
And the defensive stats compared to the rest of the American League center fielders are….???
that move right there sums up the “instinct” of Girardi….I mean…who is faster on the bases and who is more “clutch” and has a much better avg. at the plate this year ? Girardi does NOT have the “equipment” nor the brains, nor the “knack” to be the NYY Mgr….he needs to GO !
Yeah, Melky is great alright. Swings at every first pitch. You can count on him grounding out or poping up. The scouting report on him should be to never throw him strikes. He can’t work a walk to save his life. He does play a great outfield, but I’d rather see a guy who can hit.
come on Peter give us a JOBA update!
good call pete. the melky obsession doesn’t make any sense.
“And the defensive stats compared to the rest of the American League center fielders are….???”
Irrelevant because an average CF with an average bat would be more useful.
“Girardi does NOT have the “equipment†nor the brains, nor the “knack†to be the NYY Mgr….he needs to GO !”
You’re not alone in that thinking Gary Carter left several messages for Cashman yesterday.
He’s very frustrating to watch, but I’m not ready to completely give up on him because he is still very young. There are many excellent players who have put up similar numbers at his age according to Baseball Prospectus. PECOTA predicts that he’ll be an above average major league outfielder. It seems as if he’s made no progress in the last two years, though. He’s extremely difficult to watch.
“And the defensive stats compared to the rest of the American League center fielders are….???”
Not as good as everyone thinks they are, and not enough to make up for his horrble bat in the line up. This is not a debate.
Count me in as a member of the Melky fan club. He’s having a bad year, but if everyone else hit like the back of their baseball cards, having Melky’s superior defense in CF would be well worth the poor offensive year. By the way, can any stat guy out ther do a comparison of Melky vs. Bernie at this many career at bats? I bet it’s not too far off.
Let’s try Sexson on 1st, Nady in CF and Big G DH. Overpower ‘em.
i am sorry to say but Peter you are so wrong if you think Brett Gardner is a better CF than Melky. Gardner is not/and never will be a major league player anywhere.
he is the 3rd best CF in the game defensively (by ZR). Not everyone can be expected to hit .300 on this team. I would rather have his defense than Damon in CF.
Unfortunately, I do not know if melky fits the right profile as a 4th outfielder. Yes he can fit into a rotation, but I would think a fourth outfielder should also be a pinch hitter / bunter / base stealer. Christian in limited time has shown he can do those better than Melky. I think with some seasoning Gardner can as well.
I hate Melky with a passion. He is an automatic out nearly 90 percent of the time.
my theory is that if his name wasnt melky fans and others wouldnt be so enamored with him.
keep in mind hes also one of the youngest cf in all of mlb i think 3 are younger . 2 are only a few months and 1is like a year younger former #1 draft pick bj upton
Agreed Pete 100%. Melky has had a chance to show what he is and at this point, he is what he is and that is not a starting CF. What about Matt Carson at SWB? I know he’s old but it looks like he’s really blossomed last year and this year. I think he’d be worth a shot
Haven’t you listened to Kellerman?
He’s Bernie Williams reincarnated!
(which is another reason not to take Kellerman seriously!)
Here’s hoping A-jax makes his major league debut at some point in 2009 and takes over the Melkman.
Melky was hitting at .270-.280 pace in 2006-07, so there was every reason to expect him to continue or to improve.
Besides playing better defense than any other outfielder on the roster.
Nady cant play CF, he said it himself–hes not fast enough
“Let’s try Sexson on 1st, Nady in CF and Big G DH. Overpower ‘em”
Get out of the sun Dave – Nady hasn’t played CF much for 3 years.
When I see a normal Melky at-bat (especially last night’s with the bases juiced), I just wish that Austin Jackson was putting up those numbers in Scranton and not Trenton, and was ready to be in the bigs this year. Austin, if you’re reading this, please come to Tampa in February next year and hit something like .496 to force the organization’s hand.
if not melky who?
This idea that Cabrera is some vaunted all-time great defensive centerfielder is just wrong. He’s got a decent arm, but there are plenty of guys who cover more ground and take better routes.
He stinks offensively and hasn’t shown an iota of improvement. If anything, he’s gotten worse. People latch onto him because he’s a Yankee farmhand, but he’s a fourth outfielder at best.
Hope Austin Jackson makes the leap to AAA and is ready to come up by July. Otherwise, the production from CF will continue to be well below the league average next year.
let’s face it. melky is regressing a lot.
Ninjaburglar-
Melky’s “Great D” is aonther myth. He is, at best an average defensive centerfielder. I think the best stats for D can be found at Hardball Times, but a very good analysis using their raw data can be found here:
http://baseballanalysts.com/
You’ll have to scroll down th the July 31 entry. But to summarize, they net out every position player’s defensive results, based on plays made on balls hit into a certain zone. It is translated into the number of runs a player has been +/- vs. a league average player at the position. Melky Cabrera is +2.0. The 10th best in baseball is notable glove man Gabe Kapler at +5.5.
FWIW, Boby Abreu is epically awful- the worst in the leage at any position with a -27.5. He’d have to hit like Barry BOnds to make up for that with the bat.
Couldn’t agree more, Peter! Melky is an absolutely dead spot in the lineup.
Interesting – the Melky obsession seem to dissapear as the some of the other heavy hitters went down i.e. we could afford a Melky when we had a healty Posada & Matsui and when Cano was Cano… Melky under more scrutiny now…
I would like to see someone supply some defensive statistics before asserting that there simply is no debate, or that an average CF with an average bat would be more useful.
I think the Yanks are better off with a guy like Gardner or Christian because at least they bring something to the table, offensively – the ability to steal a base. I’m sure if either one of them had the comfort of knowing they were the regular CF they could muster up a .250 / .330 / .330 line (similar to Melky).
Hey “Southern Yankee” you are using my name. I have not been commenting for a couple of months in protest of his Holiness Poop SJ XLIV pomposity.
If you continue to use my name be prepared for viscious insults from the loyal opposition.
Looks like Pete is looking to stir the pot:) Wonder if he gets a bonus for more hits/comments.
“if not melky who?”
I said the same thing when they cut Bubba Crosby…
OK fellow Yankee fans. Melky is a nice kid, and is a good 4th outfielder, and late inning defensive replacement. He’s young, but can’t hit. He makes mental errors sometimes. This is Melky, for better or worse. He’s more agile than Johnny Damon, and he isn’t Bubba Crosby. But look what we have come down from. For over a dozen years we had one of the most elite CF in the game in Bernie Williams. I think people forget how good Bernie was. HE was the glue in that lineup. A switch hitting CF with power. He had some defensive troubles as he got older, but from 1996 through 2001 who was better than him? Griffey Jr. (When he wasn’t injured), maybe Andrew Jones? Don’t even say Jim Edmonds. Plus Bernie has four rings. That’s what a Yankees CF looks like. Now, is this something Melky can ever be half of? If not, it’s time to get the right guy out there.
Michael T – Thanks for bringing some information.
Its Ajax time next year!
The failure to sign Carlos Beltran continues to haunt this team. I hope that Jackson is as good as everyone has been saying, as I don’t see Brett Gardner as the everyday CF for the Yankees.
Is anyone else listening to this low class scum bag on WFAN?
How about doing a eval of Jeter compared to the other AL SS??????????
Blame it on there 9th hitter….Classic, nah nothing about the underachievers of; arod, jeter, abreu, gimabi, pettitte, and others.
classic hit job on the guy making $460k vs the guys making MILLIONS>>>>>>>>
Dr. Death is giddy on WFAN
Well put Pete. I like Melky’s spirit but spirit is not what get’s the win, its your performance ability which Melky does not appear to have in order to be an everyday player.
The age factor is undeniable and it may give you reason to hope for some progress for Melkface, but he certainly doesn’t give off any signs that he’s adjusting to major league pitching. He just looks like he will always be the same hitter that he is now: not a very good one. Also, the whole “if the other guys were performing like they’re supposed to, nobody would care about Melky!” argument…it’s bogus.
People are going to focus on you if you’re one of the regular 9 starters for the New York Yankees and you are performing poorly. Especially since it’s a team game, there is always a chance that a team’s defensive specialist/light-hitting centerfielder will come up to the plate in an important situation. When he fails virtually every time in those situations, people are going to voice their disdain.
Fans are going to complain, regardless of how the team is doing/how the stars are performing, if one of the 9 is literally dead weight at the plate(which Melky is). To try and say that people should lay off Melky is silly, people will always ride the guy that is struggling because fans want their team to be perfect. And defense isn’t going to make many people believers again.
I agree with Pete’s post except for one thing: calling Melky a “decent” player. He sucks, and anyone [I don't think Pete believes this] who thinks he’s a high quality player is an idiot. An idiot.
Melky is a future Corey Patterson and needs ousting.
If all the Yankees “Superstars” were doing what they “should” be doing no one would be talking about Melky. I dont get how everyone else kinda gets a pass but Melky I would like to know how many full-time CF are younger than Melky????
Melky plays hard and that’s good.
But Pete’s right, this is the Yankees.
.200 the past whatever doesn’t cut it.
Although I think they should give Christian more of a role this year. At least he’s hitting something and having speed in the 9hole for a second leadoff is always nice.
But the ways of going with the hot hand left with Joe Torre.
And the Yankee season turns around today because Dog has officially declared the Yankees done in 2008.
Adam Everett could be the best defensive shortstop in baseball. But his bat is so horrible that he’s not a desirable commodity for teams.
And Melky’s defense in CF is not nearly as good as Everett’s at SS.
You can’t make up for bad offense to the tune of an .OBP under .300. You just can’t.
I guess Pete doesn’t read this blog but I mostly see anti-Melky posts here.
Melky has regressed significantly. But IMO he always seems to be riding whatever wave his BFF Cano is on. Separating those two may be in order for the best of both their careers. I still believe Cash could have bested the Mets offer for Santana with a package featuring IPK and Melky as both of them were at their highest rating but that’s no matter.
Girardi’s decision was mind boggling last night. He is obsessed with lefty-righty matchups which to me shows a bit of his greenness. He is afraid of getting 2nd guessed if it doesn’t work out but who would argue with him saying ” I just liked Pudges chances in that spot” if the result was the same.
“And the Yankee season turns around today because Dog has officially declared the Yankees done in 2008.”
Just last week he said they would make playoffs. Funny dude.
Thank you Pete. Hallelujah. Finally, my Melky disdain earns an entire thread.
“Is anyone else listening to this low class scum bag on WFAN?”
You’ll need to be more specific than that.
The failure to sign Carlos Beltran continues to haunt this team.
There are rumors that Beltran doesn’t even want to be in NY. It’s not the Mets it’s NY he can’t handle. What failure he’s being overpaid and casted as one of the best players in the league which he clearly isn’t.
Right now, Christian should be the everyday center fielder, and as he has been hitting much better than Melky, that move left me scratching my head (and fairly pissed).
How much patience will they have with Bruney when Melancon is clearly knocking at the door, Strickland has been throwing great, etc..?
Kind of a random point from last night’s game but I think it got overlooked: Cano walked 3 times. Has that ever happened before?
I don’t think anyone is claiming that all the Yankees problems arise from Melky. Everyone understands that the millionaires are not doing their job, but that doesn’t mean you should settle for what Melky is giving you out there. The rest of these guys have track records of success, Melky does not.
That said, does anyone agree with me that its worth giving Matt Carson a shot?
the opinions of pat at 1:03 are not shared by this pat. Get your own name.
Funny but I never remember Pete criticizing Torre for using Melky when Joe was still here. I guess thats because like more writers (i cant bring myself to call them journalists)they pull punches in order to stay on the good side of the person they are covering. But oh well what are you going to do, thats why most people have a poor opinion of the media.
As for his comments on Melkys performance, he has had 1 awful year – this year. His other 2 years were fairly good espcially for someone his age. Also very very few players put up 2 solid years at 21 and 22 and have that end up being their peak performance. Its not impossible but very unusual. But I wouldnt expect Pete to do analysis, hes too busy getting out his anti-Torre one liners that he had been sitting on for the past few years while sucking up to Joe.
Melky is a fourth or fifth outfielder at best. He is darn near an automatic out with runner on base and ends a lot rallies. He perpetually makes mental errors either on the basepaths or in CF.
Please do not continue to try and compare this cheap imitation of a CF to 52 anymore, not even close. Look it up, do your research, and compare numbers. 52 has this clown beat in almost every offensive category as when he was in his 4th year.
Cabrera has really gotten on my nerves. His approach at the plate is terrible…always takes an upper-cut type swing to try and hit homers. He ends up grounding out or hitting lazy fly balls. He just doesn’t have a good grasp of the offensive side of the game. He’s fast, but he’s not a burner like Christian. The way this team is swinging the bat, his defense doesn’t matter much.
I can’t believe that Gardner is still being brought up as a possible replacement for Melky. As bad as Melky has been this year, Gardner was far far far worse. And he’s older.
The thing that bothers me about Melky is that he’s gotten worse each year in the majors. He had a 751 OPS as a 21 year old. That suggests that there’s talent there and he should be a good CF. Unfortunately, he’s regressed since then, and has been especially bad this year.
I originally thought Girardi was the right man for the job. But after watching his mind at work last night, I’m off that bandwagon. I really don’t understand why people value lefty/righty matchups so much. Pudge for his career has done well against RHPs. Much better than Melky.
In 2008, Melky is hitting .253 against RHPs, with an OBP of .301 and a SLG of .655. 265 ABs.
In 2008, Pudge is hitting .293 against RHPs, with an OBP of .332 and a SLG of .435. 239 ABs.
Career: Melky is hitting .272 against RHPs, with an OBP of .331 and a SLG of .391. 1009 ABs.
Career: Pudge is hitting .299 against RHPs, with an OBP of .332 and a SLG of .474. 6428 ABs.
Melky blows. They should have traded him 2 years ago when he had some value. I hate to say this b/c I hate the guy but desperate times call for desperate measures. Move Damon to CF. Leave Nady in LF. Bring in Bonds to DH. If he’ll truly play for the minimum, take a flyer on him.
J-Boogie
http://boogiedownbaseball.blogspot.com
Brandon
It’s not NY with Beltran it’s that he is expected to be the guy on the Mets. The reason he offered the Yanks a discount is because on the Yanks he would be like Abreu. An important part of the team but not the one who is looked to to carry the team and blamed for their failures.
Helno51,
In paying attention to Pete’s blog, he’s been more anti-Girardi than anything. I think he recognizes, however, that the sainthood of Joe Torre was a bit ridiculous. That being said, a young kid like Cabrera shouldn’t be regressing at this point in his career. A “bad year”, as you put it, is a regression, if not a tell-tale sign of what Cabrera actually is…mediocre, and a bench-player.
Chris – thats the point I was trying to make. that type of OPS at 21 is good. his next year he regressed but just a bit. this year has been awful but to try to combine this year and last to say that 60+% of his career has been awful is a very misleading job by Pete.
And I have no idea how anyone can have any faith in Gardner. He strikes out all the time. In the minors and the majors. He has no power so his K’s will most likely increase in the majors as better pitchers challenge him because they dont fear him at all.
I guess on a team with great defensive outfielders like Abreu, Damon and Matsui it didn’t make much sense to hang onto Melky for the time being.
Say what you want about Fat Mike, but he is 10x better than this clown Russo.
“Funny but I never remember Pete criticizing Torre for using Melky when Joe was still here. I guess thats because like more writers (i cant bring myself to call them journalists)they pull punches in order to stay on the good side of the person they are covering. But oh well what are you going to do, thats why most people have a poor opinion of the media.”
Are you so stupid you don’t realize that Pete is criticizing Girardi and Melky – people that he is covering now?
Thats why people have a poor opinion of blogs.
carlos beltran makes a ton of money and is not exactly lighting the world on fire in QUeens…
‘Please do not continue to try and compare this cheap imitation of a CF to 52 anymore, not even close. Look it up, do your research, and compare numbers. 52 has this clown beat in almost every offensive category as when he was in his 4th year.”
Except that coming into this year they compared very well:
Bernie at age 22: 686 OPS, 91 OPS+
Melky at age 22: 718 OPS, 89 OPS+
The problem is that Bernie improved the next year, but Melky regressed. If we’re ready to completely give up on Melky because he’s had a bad year, what about Phil Hughes?
I feel like some fans would not get mad at Melky even if he never got a hit! “Well, he’s hitting .000, but he plays great defense. You have to blame the big hitters,” they’d say.
Yes, others have underachieved, esp. Jeter and Cano. And injuries to Matsui and Posada have hurt. But the lineup previously just masked Melky’s hideous bat. No, we don’t need a .300 hitter at every position, but we do need an average hitter. Melky this year is a substandard hitter, and that’s not much reason to think he’ll get much better.
i expect to AJax at some point in 09.
pat he took the money what does he expect ? Everyone tells me how he would blend in as a Yankee I’m sorry I don’t believe that. There has already been whispers that he can’t take NY. He just can’t, this isn’t a team thing, he’s fragile one bump he goes on the DL for 2-3 weeks and doesn’t return to normal for a month. Beltran had it been Queens or the Bronx really there wouldn’t be a difference.
CoachJay23 is right.
If the overpaid superstars were doing their job, not one person would be mentioning anything but Melky’s defense and assists.
I mean…you would rather have Brett Gardner in CF than Melky? LOL. Wow. Come on…what do you guys see in him other than speed.
His nine hits in 58 at bats and a .158 batting average was definitely the preview of the future of the Yankees centerfield…not
Melky is not the reason the Yankees are underperforming this year. Melky is a rarity on this team–a player who was managed to stay healthy the entire season. There are plenty of scapegoats this season but Melky is low on the list.
“Please do not continue to try and compare this cheap imitation of a CF to 52 anymore”
If by 52 you mean 51, you are forgiven.
The preceding thought was taken directly from:
The Journey Within.
“The failure to sign Carlos Beltran continues to haunt this team”
will admit, i was the #1 person, for signing Beltran. Very disappointed when we didn’t.
when i view Arod, Jeter, and the other millionaires on cruise-control, i don’t see how Beltran would help this team. While his defense is solid. I wouldn’t forsee much impact.
What iv got from this thread so far.
1.Melky is the next Beltron.
2.No one is what they seem.(imposters)
3.Million dollar babies get a free ride of not coming through. The players that take the bus to games are to blame.
4.No one has used my name yet. I guess its either too original or too dumb.
Keep it coming guys.
Pete, I’m not so sure about your ranking of defensive center fielders. Most stats point to Melky being one of the top defenders in CF. According to BBTF, at the all-star break, Melky was the fourth best fielding CF in the AL. Only Adam Jones, Grady Sizemore and Carlos Gomez were better.
http://www.baseballthinkfactor.....s_defense/
I agree thought Melky is not very good. I think Jackson will be ready in mid 2009, hopefully he can step in and do a better job.
#5 Gardner is the next Willie Mays.
Whoever is analyzing Melky’s defense as a reason to keep him in the lineup…you are completely missing the point. Baseball is not a hard sport to figure out, either you get on base or you don’t. Defense is secondary, always will be.
You can’t look at crappy stats and assume he’s going to blossom into Bernie Williams, that’s ridiculous.
I would have had Jackson in CF weeks ago.
Austin Jackson is a young Sheffield he needs to get the power up but its there, the stance, the swing and he plays a great CF he should be the CF out of ST next year if he produces.
brandon– do Latin players in general like playing in NY?
So every bad year is a regression? well i guess by definition it is but it certainly doenst mean that a player cant bounce back. Also find me a player with that performance at that age who peaked at that age without the help of any major injury. it doenst happen.
Also part of the reason Joe got to sainthood was because of Pete and other writers who decided it was more useful to have access then to report their own opinions. Pete spent most of last year on the blog defending Joe for everything, no matter how silly. Now he is doing stand up about Joe.
Heres a stat maybe Peter should look into, When was the last time the Yankees lead-off hitter scored in the 1st inning ???? Try July 12th and it was a HR by Jeter. To me thats more important than what are CF is doing. I blame part of Melkys struggles on the fact that he got off to such a good start and Girardi moved up to 6th in the line-up and I think that made Melky think he had to be a power hitter. I do believe that with some help (maybe Kevin Long can stop kissing Arods @$$) that Melky can be at least a .285-.290 hitter
“Michael T
August 6th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Ninjaburglar-
Melky’s “Great D†is aonther myth. He is, at best an average defensive centerfielder. I think the best stats for D can be found at Hardball Times, but a very good analysis using their raw data can be found here:
http://baseballanalysts.com/”
I find it funny that Melky is 7 players after Jeter on that list.
The offseason of 2004 still haunts Cashman.
That was when he signed Pavano, Wright and Womack and balked at signing Beltran for a $100M discount of what the Mets gave him. He wanted to play for the Yankees and I’ve spent the last 3 years watching him dazzle in the field and at the plate in Queens. I’ll never stop thinking what could have been.
“The thing that bothers me about Melky is that he’s gotten worse each year in the majors. He had a 751 OPS as a 21 year old. That suggests that there’s talent there and he should be a good CF. Unfortunately, he’s regressed since then, and has been especially bad this year.”
Pitchers know how to pitch to him now. They have adjusted and Melky has failed to do so. To be honest I don’t think Melky projects to be much better than he is now. He has poor bat speed and not very good plate discipline. We’ll see, maybe he learns better discipline and can be an average hitter.
ok i get it melky stinks, or isnt that good, who cares —— WHAT ABOUT JOBA
I’ve never been high on Melky ever since that very first weekend in Boston when he had like 2 or 3 errors and then was sent back down to the minors. I know he was extremely young then but I think that pretty much characterized what type of player he was and would be.
“Austin Jackson is a young Sheffield he needs to get the power up but its there, the stance, the swing and he plays a great CF he should be the CF out of ST next year if he produces.”
No he’s not. Austin Jackson is more like a young Torii Hunter.
Carlos Beltran was buzy dazzling you when he looked at it from wainwright in gm7?
No one expects melky to hit 340
I dont think its much to ask for melky to hit 270
In pennant race news…those fading Rays are up 3-1 on Cleveland in the third.
OK so no one for Matt Carson!
About Brett, anyone attempting to judge him after 15 games is silly. I don’t know if Brett can be a regular ML player, but I’m reasonably certain that he can be better than a .150 hitter. Brett does one thing extremely well – run. He has one game-changing tool. Melky has none. His defense is overrated, he has no power, little speed and can’t get on base. He’s had 2 years to show what he’s got. Brett had 15 games or so. Unfair to criticize Brett so harshly.
Beltran was offered to the Yanks at a discount but they turned him down because he would have sent their payroll sprialling into further luxury tax hell.
He would have been evevn worse as a Yank than he’s been as a Met. Not interested.
I also love the argument that you can’t blame Melky because he’s not well-paid. That is another ridiculous fallacy. Apparently, you can fail as much as you like in the Yankees lineup as long as you’ve never been to an all-star game before. Makes sense if the year was 1990 and we were on our way to last place.
What’s next, the Great Cano Myth? Cashman and Co. are right to try build a good core group of home-grown talent up the middle. Posada, Jetes, Cano & Melky make up that home-grown diamond that we all love. This core group of guys play with passion, desire, and the baseball smarts that the Yankee system pounded into their brains. Melky is not the problem this year. It’s the lack of pitching depth. When we first came into the season, Moose was a question mark. Now, can you imagine where we would be without him? Our pitching staff is a joke. Sure, let’s go sign a stud center fielder for $15 mill/year but let Ponson take the hill every 5 days.
I love how guys can not have a down year. Its only his 3rd season and Bernie Williams didnt play 100 games with the Yankees until his 3rd season and didnt bat .300 until his 5th season. I am not saying Melky will be what Bernie was but we are being a little too quick judge a 23 year old KID, he is one of the youngest starting CF in baseball. Thanks Mark..
Melky is a future all star. He’s very comparable to a young Bernie. He’ll eventually hit.
It’s funny how people are talking about how great Beltran is, and yet a lot (most?) Met fans feel like he hasn’t panned out.
Beltran is fine, but he is not $100 million player. And I don’t think I’m “dazzled” by a guy that has hit .266, .275, .276 and .268 in his four years in Queens.
Melky’s D is much more than throws. if you observe, he’s excellent on cutting balls off in the gap, which often makes the difference between a single and a double, etc. for example, if Melky’s playing CF in this series, there were 2 Texas triples that he would’ve held them to doubles on.
he does need to bring back some of the patience that he showed as a rookie; he’s definitely lost that, and if that doesn’t return, he’s not going to be good enough to start long-term.
last night – well, Pudge 2008 is not “The Pudge Rodriguez” as a hitter. Rupe’s splits against lefties/righties are significant. not as simple a decision as Pete makes it sound.
I loved it, too, that Melky almost got picked off last night after he’d gotten on base representing the tying run with 2 outs. The Melky apologists want to say that he’s a decent ballplayer who is slowly blossoming in to an eventually steady major leaguer who excels on defense but holds his own at the plate. Only I can’t see when the transition will happen to get him from being an absolute automatic out who can’t bunt, doesn’t walk and isn’t a great base stealer…to being someone who can hold his own at the plate. Is this year just a lost year, and we’re supposed to hope for a big turnaround next year for the Melk Man?
Jackson a Gary Sheffield? He has 9 homers in 111 games? I havnt looked up Gary’s stats but i would think he was more of a power hitter than that. I hope AJAX comes up and performs. Because he has gotten a ton of hype here and the expectations are so high. Its scary to think of him failing.
I put him in the same catagory as Hughes as far as expectations. But imo Hughes(franchise) showed us much more in the minors than Austin has. He isnt even hitting .300 yet and we all want to put in the H.O.F.
Keep in mind Melky hit .300+ in AAA and he cant hit a lick in the bigs.
He’s 12 in runs out of 11 players? Wow, that is bad.
haha slick go look at Garnders #s since hes been back down on the farm and that should tell you he can not play at a high level. Gardner is horrible and doesnt belong any where near the Yanks. Jackson is some1 i am hoping turns out to be what every1 thinks. You guys all want Beltran now huh? Ok so you goes want every one to hit HRs and not for avg?? He hasnt hit over .300 since he has been with the Mets. Look at the old Indians teams, Mariners, and Rangers teams that can hit HR and never win. We need a BASEBALL team guys that do what they are suppose to do, and not a bunch of HR hitters. thats why we won in the late 90’s
“Defense is secondary, always will be.”
Hmmm. And Joe Torre’s mantra was always that pitching and defense wins games.
I am a lover of good defense, especially as concerns center field.
Find me a player who can hit effectively and fields like Melky and I might be willing to relinquish my ties to Da Melk. Otherwise, it’s a no go as long as I’m managing the Yanks!
Pete won’t argue with on Melky.
I will disagree with you on the money spent on this years Yankees team. Having too much money as a GM could make you less skillful at your job. If a team like the Cardinals ,GM aquired say Pavanno or Igawa,it could cripple the franchise.Being able to sweep your mistakes under the rug,isn’t a manager.
It is a handicap to have this large of a budget.There’s no accountability.
The Yankees just keep throwing money at the team.How about holding these over priced players accountable for not playing up to the level they are paid.I understand Joe has to navigate the ego’s of the players now,but Jeter is killing the team hitting in the #2 spot,as the captain why wouldn’t he ,for the good of the team go to Joe and ask to be in a better spot for the way he’s hitting?
I miss Bubba!
Batting average? How primitive. Beltrans OPS the last 3 years. 982. 878. 819. Very solid.
The Melky-Bernie comparisons are pure wishful thinking.
Bernie’s OBP his first three years with more than 100 games (his third through fifth years):
.333
.384
.392
Melky’s OBP his first three years with more than 100 games (his second through fourth, this year):
.360
.327
.298
Bernie’s slugging average in those three years:
.400
.453
.487
Melky’s slugging average in those three years:
.391
.391
.340
There is no comparison.
Bottom line Melky is killing the Yankees with his below average bat. And so what if he can throw out a running every 10 games. I would rather see a productive offensive bat in the lineup and an average CF than vice versa.
I’m “dazzled” by Beltran’s defense in conjunction with his offense. Are you people really using batting average as your baromter as to whether he’s been a good hitter?
He has a career line of .280/.355/.493. He has a career OPS+ of 116. He is one of the top defensive CF in all of baseball and he averages about 20 SB per season. He was among the top 30 players in VORP in both 2006 (when he finished 9th in all of baseball) and 2007 (when he finished 26th in all of baseball). He was more productive toward helping his team win in one season than Pavano/Wright/Womack/Melky’s totals from 2005-present day are combined.
Please, Please, PLEASE take off the blinders and realize that Cashman slipped up big time by letting this guy get away.
This would be a much better thread focused on Jeter and Giambi, two underproductive millionaires who are making the shortcomings of a young player more damaging. As many have written’ if the big boys were doing their jobs Melky really wouldn’t matter, but many of them are not.
I’m not convinced Melky will ever be more than a .280, 15, 75 type of guy, but you can live with that. However after an excellent April he’s been simply awful. Christian should start against lefites at a minimum and the Yanks may have to consider a stopgap veteran so they don’t have to rush AJax.
Brandon
Don’t agree. Beltran would have been able to blend in the Yanks clubhouse. Abreu didn’t enjoy the pressure of being “the man” in Philly but has done well with the spotlight off him in NY. Nady even said this week that he was trying to hit a 5 run homer in his first couple of games until he realized he justs needs to be a small part of the puzzle because the Yanks have bigger parts.
I think it’s not the spotlight of NY that hurts some players, it’s the spotlight of being “the man”.
From Melky’s page @ Baseball-Reference.com
“Similar Batters through Age 22
Compare Stats
Sixto Lezcano (974)
Max Carey (973) *
Tim Raines (969)
Harry Heilmann (967) *
Roberto Clemente (966) *
Chet Lemon (964)
Rick Manning (964)
Cliff Heathcote (963)
Les Mann (962)
Jimmy Sebring (961) ”
Come on guys, Melky’s a young Tim Raines, or maybe even a young Roberto Clemente.
Hey Coach Jay, what about Brett’s numbers in the 2+ years prior to his callup? He got called up because he was putting on a show at AAA (the “higher levels” you spoke of). He’s obviously messed up a bit now, but I don’t disregard everything he accomplished to get to the point of being called up in favor of what he’s done in the two weeks since he was sent back down.
I agree Pete, they Yanks should trade Melky for a dozen baseballs and a seasons supply of gatorade
Dalers, you made my point. Beltran’s OPS has dropped like a rock the last three years.
I’ve been saying for most of the season i wish they would trade him while he’s worth something
“Defense is secondary, always will be”
maybe in a less demanding position. i’ll take defense over offense for a center fielder though…
I never said Melky would be Bernie and I said that if you read what I said was that we are quick to judge some1 who is only 23 yrs old and has played in over 100 games his first 3 seasons where Bernie did play in 100 til his 3rd season, so at 23 years old I am sure he is going to have a bad year, especially when your manager puts you 6th early on cause you hit a few HRs and i think Melky’s swing was and still maybe in HR mode, Like I said, If Kevin Long would take his lips off ARODS butt maybe he can work with Melky. I mean come on what does Kevin Long do, I hear that they “like” him, that doesnt mean he is doing a good job. I would bet anything that Mattingly would be with Melky all day and night
How is he not the worst center fielder in the American League? How is it that there are players worse than him? I would hate to be the fan of a team that has a center fielder that you have to look at and say “This guy’s worse than Melky.” Recalculate Pete, your way, way off on this one, there has got to be some other factor involved such as how many times he slides head first into first base, which he seems to have cut out lately. If he’s going to be our center fielder I advocate getting him some steroids, some red bull, something.
It’s funny that you guys can craft different arguments as to why you don’t think Beltran is good, but even Beltran’s worst stats are better than Melky’s best. So chew on that.
Yeah.
They should Melky for Washburn right?
I’m in the Melky fan club. He has been hitting like crap, but you can’t beat that defense. When was the last time we had someone that good in CF? The thing is, you have to think of him as a #9 hitter, and manage him accordingly. Don’t pinch hit him with the game on the line.
“I’m “dazzled†by Beltran’s defense in conjunction with his offense. Are you people really using batting average as your baromter as to whether he’s been a good hitter?
He has a career line of .280/.355/.493. He has a career OPS+ of 116. He is one of the top defensive CF in all of baseball and he averages about 20 SB per season. He was among the top 30 players in VORP in both 2006 (when he finished 9th in all of baseball) and 2007 (when he finished 26th in all of baseball). He was more productive toward helping his team win in one season than Pavano/Wright/Womack/Melky’s totals from 2005-present day are combined.”
Yeah thats all good but he made the last out in a playoff game. Unacceptable.
Melky is awful at the plate. End of story. He’s an automatic out. His time has come and gone and he should not even be in the plans for CF for next year.
I think a lot of fans think Melky and Cano are one player and how dare we take one of them out of the lineup.
Do yourself a favor and look at the stats Pete posted. He’s a horrible offensive player and if Cano really is soft enough that he can’t handle his friend Melky getting the boot, then Cano doesn’t deserve to be a Yankee either.
I hope next year Cash finds a CF who gets on base and can play adequate defense. From his AAA stats, it appeared Gardner had a shot at being that, but he struggled so much in his callup I’m not sure he’s any kind of answer other than 4th OF/pinch runner.
It’s going to be an active off season and I think they have to change the look/feel of this club.
Melky has gotten his shot and he’s proven time and again he’s the Rey Ordonez of CF with the exception that he’s not an elite defender. He’s great defensively, but not enough to carry his bat anymore.
While I like Girardi a lot, I get upset when the manager covers his ears, eyes and mouth when it comes to his own players.
Giambi needs to be dropped in the order. Melky needs to hit the bench. Jeter needs to be dropped from the 2 hole.
These are obvious to fans who have seen enough patterns emerge this season where these hitters destroy innings before they can get started.
I know Girardi has to walk a fine line, but he really needs to man up and not worry about bumping a few ego’s including his old teammates.
If he doesn’t, he’ll be leaving the job he took before any of the guys whose ego’s he’s protecting.
At some point, you have to do the hard thing and make some changes to win.
He doesn’t have much time left, but there’s some.
Trisha, if you were a manager then, your team would be picking first in the amateur draft.
CF is the easiest position in the outfield. Everyone acknowledges that. BJ Upton had never played CF until 2007, and he’s already one of the best out there…with all of 18 months experience.
Joe Torre also had a stacked lineup that included a productive Jeter (below avg. defense), Matsui (below avg. defense), Posada (below avg. defense), Damon (below avg. defense), ARod, Abreu, ect. You’re trying to tell me he picked defense over offense?
I can’t take you seriously with a “Sidney supporter” line next to your name.
I dont know where u got ur stats from. But in 2 years in Double A he batted .300 with 32k’s in 54 games and .272 with 39 k’s in 55 games and last year in Triple A he batted .260 with 43 k’s in 45 games. THATS REALLY PUTTING ON A SHOW..haha come on do some research
NinjaBurglar-
No problem. I think that site makes pretty good work of evaluating defense, which is tough to do.
If the Yankees are looking at this type of stuff they have an easy fix to pick up a few games in the win column next year. Dump Bobby Abreu and get a plus fielder in right with league-average offense (for the position). Think Xaiver Nady. Taking Bobby’s D into account, he is hurting the Yankees as much this year as Melky at 30x the cost.
S.o.S.27,
you are either really cleverly mocking an oblivious fan or you actually are one
who cares about Beltrans money? These are the Yankees. They pay Pavano 10 a yr. You don’t think they’d pay 15 for a big time Cf??
Can Nady play CF? What if Matsui comes back healthy? That could be a huge deal if Nady could go play center.
They missed the boat not getting rid of him last winter. His value is nonexistent.
Barton, if you recall, Cashman did not make the call on Beltran. His salary would have put the Yanks into the stratosphere. It was an ownership decision. And a good one, if you ask me. Melky is awful, but that’s not why they’re not in first place.
It’s amazing that the Cashman bashers will find any reason to blame everything on Cashman, no matter how many good deals he pulls off (I quite like the two big ones at the trade deadline), and how he has rebuilt the minor league system.
The problem with the Yanks in the 00s was throwing big, stifling contracts at free agents. The fact that they didn’t go after Beltran was a good sign that they were taking a different route, one that produced Wang, Cano, Joba, and enough chips to trade for Nady and Marte.
Cashman could get Beltran and Wright from the Mets for Melky and Cody Ranson, and the Cashman haters would find fault with that deal, too.
If Matsui comes back healthy he’s not going to be anything more than an occasional DH.
I would take a flyer out on Abreu in CF and Nady in RF. Abreu is faster and covers more ground.
bartonbickle,
Ill take the cleverly mocking behing curtain #1. I was against the signing of Beltron initially. But i look at it as we could have used the Damon money for some pitching. And no not for Igawa.
and Melkys defense is highly overrated. He takes bad routes and his speed is average.
Melky has a weird swing. I would say he is like perfectly in the middle of a homerun/line-drive hitter and a bloop artist.
The result, a lot of hard hit popup/line-drive outs to the outfielders.
Melky has the swing. He just needs to tweak it down to where he can find the holes. He is 23…I am 23. That is pretty young to be the starting center fielder at Yankee Stadium. I say cut the guy some slack until you have a better option (because you don’t).
Melky is cheap, quick, makes game-changing catches in CF, has a cannon for an arm and is as about as durable as you are gonna get in New York baseball.
The reason this team has a $215 million dollar payroll is because they signed “big hitters”. Melky is not one of these “big hitters” and never will be, he is simply the beginning phase of Brian Cashman’s “youth movement”.
If you are already sick of the growing pains with Melky, it is going to be very, very ugly around these message boards when Cashman begins his full implementation of the “Youth Movement” starting next year.
Mitch,
I am the furthest thing from a Cashman hater. It’s just the ‘04/’05 offseason that really sucked. If he was really making a commitment to stop spending than he wouldn’t have splurged on three awful free agents in Pavano, Wright and Womack. Those were three relatively large contracts and none of them paid off. They could have taken all of the money they spent on those three and put it towards Beltran who would play stellar CF and slot in perfectly behind A-Rod in the 5 hole for the entirety of the deal. It’s hard to blame him for passing on it financially, but at the time his CF options were Bubba Crosby and Bernie Williams, so I’m still kind of confused as to why he did.
G. Love,
I agree with nearly all of your assessments, but I’m not sure Girardi has the options to change what you want him to change.
Drop Giambi and Jeter and move up … who? If Melky’s not in center, who is? Gardner showed he’s no better. Christian is not any better.
I think you’re right in terms of 2009. I doubt Melky will be the Plan A in center, Giambi will probably be gone, and while it’s not probable, Jeter might just get moved down in the order (if there are options). But for this year? The team is what it is.
bartonbickle,
Abreu from what iv heard is one of the worst defensive right fielders this year. I would pass on having him in a possition that calls for more balls hit to him. Dh is in his near future. I would rather have Damon out there than bobby. Even with his girly girl arm.
I doubt that Melky is a long term answer in Center, but until a better option is available he is the guy. I would be really surprised to see Garder or Christian take his spot, they have not shown much.
how can u praise Cash? The pitching is awful. They got one decent young position player. And he hasn’t improved CF since Bernie started losing 3 steps.
Hope matsui comes back. U will see Damon in cf and nady in lf.
On a complete side note that no one is talking about..
AL MVP. Seems to me that if the Yanks make the playoffs, or come close, A-ROD (or A-Stats as someone called him here recently) has an excellent chance at walking away with it. Now I really don’t care who wins it, but I find it interesting that no one is talking about it (only 30% of the season left).
Statistically, only Milton Bradley has comparable overall numbers. And of all the top AL teams, only Morneau has had similar production. All this, plus he missed about 15 games because of injury.
http://www.baseball-reference......08_t.shtml
Barton,
Wright was not Cashman. He didn’t want him. It was ownership. Pavano and Womack are all on Cashman.
And, I’m sorry, I couldn’t disagree with more. I’m very happy that Beltran plays for the lesser NY team. Sure, if his contract was more at his ability in length and dollars, maybe. But at the money he was offered to the Yanks? I’m fine with not having yet another contract to be burdened with.
Chobba,
LF is by far the easiest position in the outfield. Witness the defensively inept Ryan Braun playing OK LF for the Brewers. CF requires a lot of speed and decision making with the other OFs.
Matsui is not coming back as an outfielder.
Dalers,
Since Cash took over three years ago, he has rebuilt a broken organization. He unloaded bad contracts (he got rid of Sheff, RJ and Wright, and actually got decent prospects back for them). We now have a highly rated minor league system (that’s how we were able to get Nady/Marte).
Nobody could ever have stepped in and solved all the problems that Yanks faced in 2005. It’s been a process. And we’re watching it pay off.
Cashman has been amazingly succesful in organization building. You can’t be so “gimme now” in your approach. Baseball is different now. You can’t just buy who you want (see how Seattle is handling Washburn ), there are fewer free agents, more teams are in contention and paying their players. And, yes, thanks to the 100 percent luxury tax, even the Yanks can’t spend unlimitedly. It’s a different world.
Here is the proof Cash is great: Not only is the decision no whether he stays as much his as the Steinbrenners’, but if he does walk, every team with a GM opening (and many that don’t) will be clamoring to hire him.
don’t worry guys,he will be traded this winter,clam down !I bet I will trade him.
Coach, I’ve done the research and I went and saw Brett play. THIS year in AAA, Brett is currently hitting .283, with a .405 OBP and an .816 OPS. In June, the month before his callup, he hit .294 with a .429 OBP and an .840 OPS. Combine that with his 37 steals to date and the fact that he was single handedly creating runs and winning games for SWB and you have the “show”. If you read Chad Jennings Blogs before the callup, you’d see he was impressing everyday down there. If you want to pick out random stats you can make anyone look bad. Yes, he strikes out a lot, but he more than makes up for the strikeouts with walks and hits and steals after he gets on.
I’m not saying he’s Willie Mays. All I’m saying is you can’t judge him after 15 ML games.
“Wright was not Cashman. He didn’t want him. It was ownership. Pavano and Womack are all on Cashman.”
And a lot of GM’s wanted Pavano. Remember “Carl-a-Palooza?” Yuck.
I thought ownership, not Cash, wanted Womack?
Every fan knew the Wright deal wouldn’t work out… just like the Farnsworth acquisition.
I think Damon not getting on and scoring in the 1st since JULY 4th is a big deal, and just whats to say that if we can score once and a while in the 1st inning that it wouldnt maybe put pressure on the other team for 1 and it would mean that guys would be hitting with maybe runners on base more, or change how the order is each inning.. Its so easy to blame Melky, but the last 2 nights he didnt start so whos fault is it?? Still Melky’s???? You know what I wish Joe would sit Melky and then when we lose you guys cant blame him and maybe you have to Blame the guys whos jersey you have on once and awhile.
what about Brett’s numbers in the 2+ years prior to his callup? He got called up because he was putting on a show at AAA (the “higher levels†you spoke of). He’s obviously messed up a bit now, but I don’t disregard everything he accomplished to get to the point of being called up in favor of what he’s done in the two weeks since he was sent back down.
THATS WHAT U SAID HE WAS PUTTING ON A SHOW in his 2plus years and I proved you wrong. HE WASNT putting on any show
He will be 25years old in a few weeks. Its not like Gardner is 20,21,22 years old. He is 25 years old. I dont wanna hear it. If he was Putting on a SHOW than how come he didnt get a call up until he was 24???? Gardner is not going to make any Yankees 25 man-roster so send back your custom made t-shirt.
what about Brett’s numbers in the 2+ years prior to his callup? He got called up because he was putting on a show at AAA (the “higher levels†you spoke of). He’s obviously messed up a bit now, but I don’t disregard everything he accomplished to get to the point of being called up in favor of what he’s done in the two weeks since he was sent back down.
THATS WHAT U SAID HE WAS PUTTING ON A SHOW in his 2plus years and I proved you wrong. HE WASNT putting on any show
You proved me wrong by telling me that he batted over .260 in every stop? OK, whatever helps you sleep at night chief.
Wright had an e.r.a of around 3.2 when he signed with the Yankees. Carl was the most sought out free agent pitcher out there. Still cant blame Cash for those deals.
Pete,
A silly post. ARod and Jeter hit into those DP’s.
Melky is a young player. Batting ninth playing center well is fine for now.
Bad decisions and bad contracts have exacerbated this problem by reducing flexibility and making it absolutely necessary to have a good defensive ceter fielder, even if he can’t really hit.
Damon, Matsui, Abreau…not a decent defensive outfielder in the bunch. Damon, Matsui, and Nady (who is a nupgrade over Bobby) are all signed for next year if I’m not mistaken, and Posada will be at 1st base/DH so you really have very little flexibility and a logjam at DH.
pete,
great post.
i’ve long been disenchanted with the melkman in center.
to me, he’s a fourth outfielder at best.
every once in awhile, he snags a good one at the fence, but like my dad has always said, good fielders are a dime in a dozen.
especially at the centerfield position, which is traditionally a power slot in your lineup.
right now, it’s not like there’s a strong crop of centerfielders out there, but certainly, we can do better than this automatic out.
it’s funny because had this been someone else, yankee fans would be calling for his head, but for some reason, the melkman continues to plod along under the radar without many people saying too much.
why? i have no idea because his lacking skills have been all too apparent for some time now to me.
k3k
It wasn’t the payroll stratosphere that led the Yankees to pass on Beltran it was the presence of Wiliams already in CF at $ 12.5 million for 2005. Obviously Bernie was slowing down but what a mess that would have been and what pressure it would have put on Beltran.
Everyone in baseball wanted Pavano that year, but the Yankees “won” that battle. The Tampa mafia pushed for Wright and Womack… niether of whom Cashman or Torre wanted.
this is shaping up to be a defining off-season as the Yanks make decisions on all their free agents while deciding what to do about Tex and CC……
Great call Pete!!!!
Melky is a nice 4th OF, a late inning defensive replacement, occasional start but his bat is minor league quality. What about a guy named Mark Kotsay???
Gardner was projected to be a 4th outfielder. He is not the answer. The problem i had with him is not his batting average but that he didnt want to swing the bat. Christian looks better than Gardner did.
Wow. We have a center fielder that loves to swing away and another that keeps the bat on his shoulders. If we can only find something in between those two. We’d be in good shape.
Why is it that the Yanks $200 million payroll of sluggers keeps getting dominated by no names with 6+ e.r.a.? It blows me away how helpless they seem early in games.
Ya go get Kotsay, thats what we need another 33 year old who bats .280 for his career and makes 7 million..
Damon’s defensive ability is a step down from Melky’s, but he more than makes up for it with the bat. Move Damon back to center (he’s a waste in left) and either sign a left fielder in the off-season or re-sign Giambi for DH and deal with Matsui’s below-average glove in left. Either way, Abreu and his awful glove should be gone and Nady in right. (Giambi’s a better hitter than Abreu, which is why he’s an option at DH.)
I would still like to see Cash try to get Dejesus until AJAX is ready to go.
so we won’t see Jackson for the sept callup?
at this point, i would think it would be all hands on deck. why leave an unproductive player in the lineup when the season is at stake? he’s pretty much blown all season. i don’t understand what happened; he looked so promising the last 2 years.
TO ANYONE WHO WHO CLAIMS MELKY TO BE JUST A FOURTH OUTFIELDER.
Who are the three outfielders you have before him?
Melky does have his bad moments and he’s going through a rough stretch right now, but its too easy to put the blame on the young kid. Melky doesnt make anything close to the amount of money of the other everyday starters. Jeter, ARod, Giambi, Cano, and Abreu have all underachieved once again. Not only do they underachieve again this year, but they do it every postseason. Stop blaming Melky for the problems and look at the real underacheievers. And im not even talking about the pitching staff!!
Melky’s league-average overall. That has some value when he doesn’t make much money. But the Yankees don’t need to care about that — trade him to another team who does care.
Waaaaay too early for Austin Jackson to make his pinstripe debut.
In fact, his Trenton numbers are really close to Melky’s line in 2005.
Both kids need more time.
“Torii Hunter, B.J. Upton, Jacoby Ellsbury (and Coco Crisp), Carlos Gomez and Curtis Granderson are better in the field. Probably Grady Sizemore, too.”
Unfortunately, we don’t have them, nor did we have the opportunity to get them (I’m sure Torii Hunter was going west no matter what). Is there some way we can smuggle Granderson away? Can pirates abduct him and bring him to Texas by tonight?
He’s not a fourth outfielder on THIS team… the point is he’s a fourth outfielder on a CHAMPIONSHIP caliber team.
If Damon’s arm makes some progress you could re-sign Abreu and go Nady, Damon, Abreu with Melky for rest and late inning defense. Personally I’d prefer to deal for a corner outfielder who is younger or even consider signing Adam Dunn for OF/1B/DH.
Sign Teixiera and get Matsui healthy and they should be a better team offensively and defensively in ‘09.
Normally you don’t count on guys in their mid-thirties to improve, but I think it’s pretty safe to predict Posada, Jeter and Matsui will ALL be better next year.
People should stop projecting Jorge as a 1B… he hates it, he doesn’t want to do it and it wont work. He’ll be a C/DH. More DH after ‘09 I suspect.
melky is dead weight. the line up is not as good as it used to be. melky is clearly one of the worst hitting OFers in the league.
I’ve been trumpeting for two years now that the Yankees needed to sell high on Melky. It looks now like they waited too long.
it always seems that melky comes up in a big spot too..
RAB has kidnapped Pete! To what levels will those guys sink?!?!
Whatever, Pete has always disliked Melky.
Furthermore, I am inclined to believe that you are being paid by the Gardner camp… seriously? Justin Christian has played better than Gardner and Autin Jackson is just not ready.
I don’t have any issues with Melky’s defense in CF, he has made some amazing plays out there this year. His approach at the plate leaves alot to be desired, he doesn’t seem capable of making adjustments. That being said, if the remainder of the offense performs up to their potential, we’re not even having this discussion about Melky. He’s in the #9 slot for a reason. I think this team has more pressing concerns then Melky Cabrera.
Amen, amen, amen. He’s a AAAA outfielder, nothing more. There’s an upside, but you can’t wait multiple years with him in CF, hoping for the future. Christian should be in there right now; while he’s not a great choice, he at least provides a minimal offensive spark. Melky is pure dead weight in that lineup and looks consistently overmatched.
Melky’s at-bats are no worse than Jeter’s, except he bats ninth and Jeter is wasting space in the 2 hole.
OH SNAP!! MAD DOG RUSSO JUST PUNKED OUT PETE
“It’s a bit of toss-up with Nick Swisher. But you would take virtually every other CF in the league instead of Melky.”
I agree with your thoughts Pete, but I’d also like to add that I think there is a big gap between Swisher and Melky. I’d take Swish any day of Melky.
*over* Melky
If Pudge is hitting in that situation, it’s a double play
Thank you Peter for expressing the same thoughts that I have about Melky.
I do disagree about Coco Crisp and Ellsbury being better outfielders. Yes, both are faster. But both of them have arms that make Johnny Damon look like Vlad Guerrero in comparison.Melky’s worst throw is better than the best toss from Crisp or Ellsbury.
Melky’s swing is wayyyy too long and he has no idea about the strike zone. He can’t lay off a high fastball any better than Sidney Ponson can stay away from a Happy Hour.
I can see why people would say LF is easier to play than CF, although most players openly admit that is not the case (even Christian said so last night on the pre-game show).
The main difference between a CF and the corner spots is speed. It’s the reason why teams always put a failed, but fast infielder in CF to start with, because it’s the easiest to learn. For anyone who’s played the outfield, it’s much harder to read the spin on a ball in the corner than it is standing in the middle of the field. In CF, you have the best view of the action, which means the best jump.
Having speed doesn’t make you a smart. It means you can make up for mistakes by using an innate skill.
“I can’t take you seriously with a “Sidney supporter†line next to your name.”
Chobba it was a very tough choice for me but I decided it was more important for Joe Girardi to take me seriously. After all, he’s a Sidney supporter too.
Ciao now!
“He will be 25years old in a few weeks. Its not like Gardner is 20,21,22 years old. He is 25 years old. I dont wanna hear it. If he was Putting on a SHOW than how come he didnt get a call up until he was 24???? Gardner is not going to make any Yankees 25 man-roster so send back your custom made t-shirt.”
Because he went to a place called “college” and got drafted when he was 22. No custom-made T-shirt chief, just want to give him, like any other prospect, a real shot, not 15 games, before we go sending him off to Pittsburgh
Melky is only 23 years old. He came up as a 21 year old after playing 20 games in AAA. The kid was seriously rushed. To consider him fodder at this point in his career would be a mistake. He should probably be sent down to get 500 ABs against minor league pitching. Remember, he was hitting .380 in AAA over those 20 or whatever games. I think Melky has ability, and would greatly benefit from some development against lesser pitching. The problem is who replaces him in center? If Gardner hit .220 I bet he would have already.
Aside from the fact Sidney is one of the worst starters in the league, rooting for him is a head scratcher.
1. He has no future with the Yanks
2. By numerous accounts, he’s a bad guy off the field who probably couldn’t care less if you rooted for him or not
3. Girardi has him on the team out of what he thinks is necessity. Trust me, no one on the Yanks wanted anything to do with Ponson to start the season
Oh yes, because Melky (who would be the everyday #9 hitter if Posada and Matsui were healthy) is THE problem with this team. Replace him and suddenly A-Rod & Jeter will stop hitting into so many double plays and Ponson & Rasner will become the second coming of Koufax & Drysdale.
Melky has not progressed this year, I agree. I’m not ready to give up on him though. Is the coaching staff doing anything to help him, or are they just letting him flail away without spending time with him? Or, is he not responsive to Long and a difficult player to work with? I’m naive enough to think that everybody on this team succeeds and fails together, but that doesn’t make for marginally interesting blog entries like this one. . .
A lot of players have not played up to expectations this year, but it’s always easy to pick on the weakest player, at least the easiest thing to do if you’re lazy. I’m more interested to learn if you could weigh in on if Derek Jeter has entered his decline years, but I won’t hold my breath for that entry. . .
Melky has not progressed this year? He hasn’t progressed for 3 YEARS in the major leagues. Are we going to have him spend 7 or 8 years in the majors before we finally realize the kid is nothing special? You need to give youngsters time, but only if they show any signs of improvement. Melky has shown nothing. And there is no ONE problem. He’s one of MANY problems that have lead to our current third place standing in our division.
Sorry Pete but your judgment of Melky just doesn’t fill the bill. Maybe you should stick to reporting the sports and leave the other stuff to the pros.
Cheesy,
He progressed from 2005 to 2006 to 2007. . .but he hasn’t progressed from 2007 to 2008.
He’s shown NOTHING? Great (simplistic) analysis, not lazy at all. . .
Like I said, it’s the easiest thing to do to pick on the weakest link. Easy prey.
The thing about Melky is that he never gets hurt and he plays every day. He, Cano and Abreu have only missed a handful of games. Managers want guys that they can run out there every day. If the rest of this lineup was doing their job (and healthy) then having a .250 hitter at the #9 spot who improves the whole outfield’s defense wouldn’t be an issue. When the lineup is healthy and working reasonably well 1 through 9 Melky isn’t an issue, but when guys are hurt (Posada, Matsui, probably Jeter with his hand) or are in prolonged slumps (Cano 1st half, Giambi twice now) then Melky gets exposed. That’s the risk the Yankees took and could live with. . .
If you had to fill out the lineup card every night like Girardi has to (and Torre did) and deal with all of these injuries and prolonged slumps (everybody forgets that Melky outhit Cano the first half of the season) you would understand the value of having Melky in CF every day. It’s not that hard if you try to think like a manager, but I know that’s a lot of effort too. . .
Anthony Murillo August 6th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
“I hate Melky with a passion. He is an automatic out nearly 90 percent of the time.”
Hate is a strong word. Grow up.
Kicked Damon out of center field???
Are you for real..? Damon can’t play center field. His skills have declined. You just don’t know the difference betwee someone who can play out there and someone who can’t, and that’s where you err, Peter.
But forget Peter, do you Yankees fans remember what life was like out there when Bernie had declined? When Kenny Lofton was trying to get to the wall before the ball dropped in behind him? There’s your answer as to why Cabrera has been able to hold down his job. The Yankees don’t have a better in-house option.
Gardner is nice in theory, but he hasn’t shown he can hit, and that’s everyone’s gripe about Cabrera, although it’s pretty knee-jerk, considering he’s just 23 years old.
Glad I skipped over that post bodhisattva. . .but it shows you the mentality of some of these posters.
And mathematically, if Melky was an automatic out nearly 90 percent of the time, he would be hitting just over .100.
But don’t let facts (or basic math) get in the way of your hate there Murillo.
bodhisattva, awesome post at 5:12PM.
And anybody who thinks Damon can still play CF doesn’t watch very many games (obviously). . .
The Melky question – his potential was apparent last season as was the risk of assuming that three rookie pitchers would all mature and stay healthy
It is why we advocated trading Melky and one (nor Joba though) for Santana
Then brainless passed on Washburn — so now there is not only no hope for 2008 when there is at least the potential for the offense
We get to think on 2009 — where the Yankees only have to spend CASH for Sabbathia – if he will come; and Teixiera, if he will come
And replace Jter’s offense — and Abreu’s offense, and play Posada/Giambi/Matsui into some combo of 1B DH – get a full time C (Joge is not going to mend at his age in an everyday C–no fault of his)
and hope that Joba, Hughes, and IPK become better than serviceable; and CMW can be equal to what he was — too many pitches, too many hit balls but survived due to the velocity and the sink. If the injury does not allow that then Pitching becomes even more of an issue.
and nothing makes up for a manager’s brainless lineups and brainless substitutions
And I admit I thought I was wrong to have advocated the trade when Melky got off to that April start — I will eat crow if he can recover that form — the Yankees might start by offering either hit LH in Winter ball against all pitching so we can evaluate you as a full time player or you become a 4th outfielder platoon player
“Melky plays hard and that’s good.”
You’re kidding, right?
WAVE TO THE FANS, MELKY! JOG TO FIRST, MELKY! GET BENCHED BY GIRARDI, MELKY!
“Then brainless passed on Washburn ”
That was smart. Washburn is absolutely awful, and the Yanks could get him on waivers.
I suppose Nady was a brainless move, huh? (Or Justice, for that matter.)
“The thing about Melky is that he never gets hurt and he plays every day.”
Um, wrong on both counts, but thanks for playing!
george
August 6th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
“Melky’s D is much more than throws. if you observe, he’s excellent on cutting balls off in the gap, which often makes the difference between a single and a double, etc. for example, if Melky’s playing CF in this series, there were 2 Texas triples that he would’ve held them to doubles on.”
LOL George! My grand dad is 85 years old and suffering from a debilitating disease. He saw Ruth play when he was just 5 years old and claims to really remember him. Any way, despite his weakness, he pounds on the ceiling when the Yankees do well, hasn’t lost his vigor for baseball.
BUT TO MY POINT: My Grand dad screamed downstairs on those triples: “That kid may be faster but he doesn’t have Melky’s instincts out there: that’s no triple if Melky is playing…”
I said, “Grand dad, you took the words right out of my mouth!”
The problem, George, is that people don’t understand that talented defensive players pre-empt trouble: Melky will never be properly lauded for not getting an assist on a play that never happened because baserunners already know not to run on him….
A very erudite observation, George!
TOS,
The folks puzzled about Damon getting “kicked out of center field” need to learn the dimensions of Yankee Stadium: nowhere to hide out there!
We are agreed. DFA and release ‘im. A-Rod, too. Let’s clean house!
test
it’s probably ideal ideas!