Big night for Phil Franchise
-
- August
- 7
We here at blog headquarters still believe in Phil Hughes.
His injuries have been total freak events. Toes, hamstrings, ribs, etc. His arm is sound, his work ethic is fine and he can still be every bit the pitcher the Yankees think he can be. Let’s keep in mind, he’s only 22.
Hughes is scheduled to throw 60 pitches tonight for AAA Scranton against the Pawtucket Red Sox. It’ll be his third start since coming back from his fractured rib.
The plan is for Hughes to get to 80 pitches on Aug. 12 and around 90-95 on Aug. 17. That start could well be in the big leagues depending on what the Yankees need at the time.
“It’s possible,” Joe Girardi said.
It’s funny. The season started with the Yankees relying heavily on Hughes and Ian Kennedy as starters. It could end that way as well.
Chad Jennings, the man in Scranton, will have all your Hughes news on his blog.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, August 7th, 2008 at 4:44 am by Peter Abraham.
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I believe in you Phil.
Phil, you’re the man. Child. Whatever. Beat those pink sox.
they should name a flower after Phil, since he is so precious and delicate.
I know you’re a big fan of Hughes, but can we be honest for a moment before we get back into hyping two young pitchers who were rushed on April 1st?
1. He mostly throws low 90’s at 21. Dangerous when you rely on a fastball so heavily.
2. He has two pitches, a curveball and fastball. He had trouble throwing both of those for strikes even before his injury which leads to two questions:
A: Does he have poor control?
B: Does he lack confidence at the major league level?
3. Is he better suited to bullpen work until he can get another pitch? If a hitter only has to choose between a fastball and curve, isn’t that fairly predictable? Doesn’t he lack an outpitch other than a fastball?
a healthy hughes gives us a shot at the wild card.
Phil Hughes, last year and the 1st game of 2008: 5-3, 4.35.
Then came the 0-4,11.25 stretch when he most probably was pitching with the broken rib. I don’t think he was lousy then broke the rib. I think he broke it, didn’t realize it was broken, and pitched with pain, which he shouldn’t have done.
Whatever. He didn’t forget how to pitch. How about throwing out that stretch and concentrate on a 5-3, 4.35 for what was a 21-year old? That’s not bad. That’s not counting the 1-0, 1.59 postseason he had.
The first start of the year was good. 2 R in 6 IP. Sometime before the 2nd start, or during it, he got hurt. I tend to think something may have happened in the bottom of the 2nd of his 2nd start. At KC April 8th. A 3-1 putout. Was the throw bad? Was there a collision? Did Phil have to stretch awkwardly? I don’t know. But a look at the gamelog shows that almost IMMEDIATELY following that play, there were two walks and a HBP. That’s not Phil Hughes. The next inning he walked two more batters. It was the start of his “slump.” To me, it’s an indication of when that injury may have occurred. He had 13 walks in 22 IP this year after 29 in 72 2/3 last year. In 281 2/3 minor league IP, just 68 walks. ERA 2.04. A minor league WHIP of 0.86.
He is just 22. Concentrate on the 5-3, 4.35 before the injury and hope he stays healthy.
If they aren’t playing in October, I don’t see any legitimate reason why Hughes and Kennedy should continue to pitch in the minors when the big league club has a couple of openings in the rotation.
As of right now, their playoff hopes are fairly bleak anyways. So let these kids come back and let’s see what they’ve got.
They are a big part of the future of this team – not Dan Giese, or Rasner, or Ponson. Let them pitch and do their thing.
At this point, the Yanks have nothing to lose and they both have something to prove.
whatever cashman decides, let’s just hope he continues to get phil franchise back to the bigs without one second too many at triple a.
phil has dominated at every minor league level.
what does he have to prove there?
get him back .
fast, fast, fast.
asap.
sooner than soon.
pronto
likkity split
on a related note , the yankees have received 50,000 bonus points on their frequent flyer program to birmingham.
you don’t even need to use his record last year as proof of his potential, just him almost singlehandedly saving our behind in the playoffs.
they can’t all be Joba in terms of how quickly they fully acclimate. Phil’s going to be just fine. Either be patient with him, or kick yourself for not being patient with him five years from now.
Phil needs a new nickname. I think he’ll be a pretty good pitcher, but “Franchise” is beyond ludicrous.
Some good news to dwell on: Boston is not the healthiest of clubs either and the loss of Manny and Mr. Ortiz’s latest production at that plate is less than stellar. Plus those Tampa Bay pitchers are all entering uncharted territory in innings pitched and have very tough upcoming schedule with many road games as well. You could see them lose 9 out of 10 in the blink of an eye.
I definately expect to see Hughes make his next start with the MLB club, and not with Scranton, as long as he’s lined up to throw 90+ pitches.
at this point in the season, they need those 90+ pitches much more at the MLB level than at Scranton. and i’d rather him throw those pitches at the MLB level, and hand it over to the bullpen for the last 4 innings or so, than watch Dan Giese anchor the back of the rotation.
and to add to that, line up Giese to piggy-back Hughes’s first start, in case he cant make it out of the 4th inning, or whatever may be the case.
Patrick Bateman said “he only has two pitches,
Lots of opinions re Phil Hughes…heres one more:
Hughes boasts a good fastball that works comfortably in the mid-90s. His four-seamer has good movement and he’s able to locate it very well. All of Hughes’ pitching is based off his ability to locate pitches. He does that very well with his four-seamer. Hughes also throws a plus two-seam fastball that sits in the low 90s. Again, he locates it very well. These two pitches, with their different movement and speed, complimented by his excellent command, set Hughes up as one of the most deadly pitchers in the minors.
But what really makes Hughes the phenom that he has become is his curve ball. Working in the low 80s with excellent 1-7 movement, Hughes uses his curve ball as his true out-pitch. He does a great job of locating his curve and it has good deception. Additionally he’ll throw a change-up… He ditched his slider for the most part last season and has gone with just the fastballs, change and curve.
“Plus those Tampa Bay pitchers are all entering uncharted territory in innings pitched”
If only this were true…
For those who say the Yanks playoff hopes are bleak or they are done, do some math. They play the Red Sox more games than they are behind them in the wild-card. Pretty sure it’s close with Tampa Bay too. Until there are an X and a Y next to Boston and Tampa in the standings the Yanks have a chance.
im going to watch trenton tonight, i’ll drop a report on what i see from pavano when i get back since mike ashmore is on vacay.
Yanks in September:
Tampa Bay 3x; Seattle 3x; LA 3x;
Tampa again 3x; White Sox 3x; Balt and Tor 3x and finally the pink sox for 4.
thats a great scouting report, Paul, but what we’ve seen from Hughes hasnt been that. what you’ve got there is best case scenerio.
“Hughes boasts a good fastball that works comfortably in the mid-90s.”
I for one am surprised to learn 92-93 is the “mid 90’s”.
the yankees need to go on a tear and win 16 of 21 or something like that. then they’ll be right there with whoever. playing .500 and hoping to sweep tampa and boston isnt gonna get it done.
there are plenty of games left to just win and not worry about what those guys are doing but this win 2, loose 2 crap isnt gonna get it done.
“I for one am surprised to learn 92-93 is the “mid 90’sâ€.”
its that half-rule; like when you get to 5, you round up to 10… but when you get to 92.5, you can round up to 95.
“its that half-rule; like when you get to 5, you round up to 10… but when you get to 92.5, you can round up to 95.”
Damn! I hate this new math.(:
I still believe in Phil Franchise. Best of luck to Phil tonight. We need him to help us.
good luck to phil tonight and good luck to ian tonight and even good luck to pavano tonight. we may need all 3 of them!
sorry ian’s tomorrow
Andy Sonnanstine, last year 130.2, this year @ already 133.2
Matt Garza, 2006=50 IP, 2007=83 IP, This year @ already 129.0
Jackson, 2003-2006, 22.0-36.1 IP, Last year = 161, This year @ already 130.0
Shields 2006=124.2, 2007=215.0, this year @ 151.1 ( on pace to throw over 430 innings in 2 years, after throwing only 124 in his first year ) No surprise if lands on DL here !
Kazmir = OK, I admit he’s a horse, but has already been hurt this year, right ?
With our season teetering precariously, I think Kennedy and Hughes can really help us. When they pitch to their ability, they are definitely upgrades over Ponson, Rasner, and Geise. This is a no-brainer for the Yankees.
For every person who over-hypes a young Yankee pitcher, there are 2 who reduce his ability to that of Kei Igawa. There’s a reason these guys were drafted as high as they were. 2 months of their first full season in the big leagues does not make a career. People are literally searching for reasons not to be in favor of Kennedy/Hughes’ future. Give me a break!
i wonder why was Rasner a starter over Karsens? i think Jeff was better myself he happen to break his leg and was hurt but we let him slip away.. maybe its me…
Let’s both Phil and Ian come back and help us the rest of the season. We need them.
Regardless of what happens with Phil, Ian, and Joba in 2008…the issue I see in 2009 is that the innings limits for these guys will too low to get a full season out of any of them. That means that we need to get ourselves some good veteran pitchers in the offseason. Paging Mr. CC Sabathia…
Any further updates on Brett Favre ? What time did he get out of bed this morning ?
Alfred-sources informed ESPN that he got out of bed at approximately 6:13 AM EST
The jets are like the Mets.. they both Suck! thats why they dont have there one stadium! Giants stadium..
I’m making a solemn promise to never use the word “franchise” again in a description of Phil Hughes for fear of jinxing him.
all i know is the phil hughes i saw pitch last year vs texas was a pitcher that was better than joba chamberlain
“Andy Sonnanstine, last year 130.2, this year @ already 133.2”
Actually, he threw 71 in AAA last year too. That’s 201 IP. He threw 185 in AA the year before that. This year, he’s on pace for 191
“Matt Garza, 2006=50 IP, 2007=83 IP, This year @ already 129.0”
Also pitched 136 minor league innings in ‘06 (186 IP total) and 92 minor league innings in ‘07 (175 total). His pace for this year is 183 IP.
“Shields 2006=124.2, 2007=215.0, this year @ 151.1”
Again, you’re forgetting minor leagues. Sheilds had 61 IP in the minors in ‘06 (186 IP total). He’s on pace to match last year’s 215.
“Kazmir = OK, I admit he’s a horse, but has already been hurt this year, right ?”
Kazmir did miss April, but has been healthy since. He’s on pace for about 170 now, a number he’s exceeded twice in his short career.
“Jackson, 2003-2006, 22.0-36.1 IP, Last year = 161, This year @ already 130.0”
Jackson is the great unknown of this lot. But he did pitch 161 last year and at 24 is still pretty young and his minor league numbers have him over 100 IP in every season since 2002. Also worth noting the Rays have the best minor league pitcher in the game destroying AA and likely to be up in the next couple weeks. Perhaps as a replacement for Jackson.
“all i know is the phil hughes i saw pitch last year vs texas was a pitcher that was better than joba chamberlain”
Might have been for that day. Otherwise, not so much.
“all i know is the phil hughes i saw pitch last year vs texas was a pitcher that was better than joba chamberlain”
then you were watching a different game than everyone else.
“Phil needs a new nickname. I think he’ll be a pretty good pitcher, but “Franchise†is beyond ludicrous.”
How about Phil Phragile?
i think joba is being overworked thats why his shoulder is hurting… last yr he pitched out of the PEN 80innings or so.. now he is starting didnt have much time to get his mind and body ready for the grueling summer.. We expected too much from him me my self i still like him better in the Pen.. but we also need quality pitchers that will get the ball to him and MO
RockinDaBronx
August 7th, 2008 at 5:39 am
“they should name a flower after Phil, since he is so precious and delicate.”
PHIL THE PANSEY??
“then you were watching a different game than everyone else.”
Probably didn’t have high def that night.
Mike Mussina throws his fastball 86 MPH and has 14 wins. Don’t get caught up in radar gun readings. Phil Hughes doesn’t have to throw 95 MPH to be a good major league pitcher.
All I know is, the game I saw him pitch in Charleston, he looked like the old Phil Hughes. His ball has more pop and movement than it had during his time in NY this season.
Can he build on that outing? That’s what I want to see. If he can, I see no reason why he can’t be a successful pitcher, regardless of his radar gun readings.
If he can make it back to NY by Mid-August, that’s good work on his part. For a long time, many in the Yankees organization believed he wouldn’t be back until September.
Its WAY too early to give up on Hughes. If he can stay healthy, he’s going to win a lot of games in his major league career. He has too much talent not to be successful.
What he needs is to be tougher. Perhaps this adversity will give him the toughness necessary to take it to the next level.
Respectfully disagree Awesome. Joba did throw 90 innings in the minors last year prior to his 24 MLB innings for a total of 114. Thru his last start he’s thrown 89 innings on the year. I think the Yankees managed his transition about as well as they could. As for expectation, I can’t believe there’s anyone’s he did not meet or exceed.
“What he needs is to be tougher. Perhaps this adversity will give him the toughness necessary to take it to the next level.”
lets hope so, SJ.
and he’s not just fighting for the yankees’ wild card spot, but for his own personal spot in the back of the rotation next spring.
the Yankees will be the team that “folds” the least down the stretch and will win the AL East. ( mark you calendars and at the end of the year, you can show this as either another example of me being a fool…OR, the day that I pulled a wabbit outta my hat ! )
SJ, you going to be in the area for any of the Charleston games in Lakewood next weekend?
You wascal Vito!
Have a good day my friend.
Going to see Phil in WB/S tonight. I agree with SJ’s take. I saw Phil make a couple of starts at AAA last year and he was a different pitcher before the injury in Texas, even when he came back last year and this (better control more aggressive).
From what I’ve heard, he’s back to 2006 form and for Yankee fans that should be exciting – at that time he was one of the best pitching prospects in the game.
I can’t believe I am reading and hearing people blaming the transition for Joba’s injury. Now people are saying it was a mistake for him to be made a starter. He started his ENTIRE CAREER!! He was only made a reliever for innings purposes last year. I actually heard someone on the radio say shouldn’t they have waited until next year and made him a starter from spring training.
awesome
joba’s been a starter his whole career in college, and the minors except for 2 months last year and 2 months this year, just to keep his innings down. the yankees have him on a strict innings limit of no more than a 30 IP increase year over year. if you have to baby him more than that, he’ll never become a major league starter.
be patient, most pitchers miss a few starts in any year due to stiffness, dead arm, tendinitis or whatever. if he had continued to pitch 7 innings per start, he would have had to be shut down before the end of the season to avoid going past him innings limit anyway, so unless this injury becomes more than it looks like right now, joba will end up right where he should be at around 135 – 140 IP.
Jennifer, I heard Seth Everett on Fox Sports radio say that….perhaps the same person you are talking about.
“What he needs is to be tougher. Perhaps this adversity will give him the toughness necessary to take it to the next level.”
What, like toughen up his ribs so they don’t break? Or strengthen his hamstrings so they don’t tear? I hope you meant mental toughness. In that case I would agree, but then again most young pitchers need more mental toughness. There are only a few that can handle the majors the first time around (Joba, Wang for example).
“From what I’ve heard, he’s back to 2006 form.” great scouting that somebody picked up that he’s back to 2006 form in only 5 innings!
“What he needs is to be tougher. Perhaps this adversity will give him the toughness necessary to take it to the next level.”
It’s not a matter of toughness. If you’re injured, you’re injured. That has nothing to do with toughness. Trying to be tough generally just makes the injury worse and puts you out of action for longer.
what grade level will a pitcher be a closer for there whole career? every pitcher is a starter until moved to a new position.. be real.. last year you guys was saying JOBA is the truth in the pen now all of a sudden you guys saying JOBA is the best starter yanks have.. get out of the MEDIA life and look at reality.. who will close once MO gets hurt?? dont say that cant happen…look at everyone favorite pitcher CARL PAVANO..
”..at that time he was one of the best pitching prospects in the game.”
Correction, he was the best pitching prospect at the beginning of last year.
ray- I think it was someone from pti on espn radio. Don’t they realize a normal season is about 220 innings, and if he only threw 110 last year (2007), Than with the Yankees 30 innings increases he wouldn’t be able to pitch an entire season. Really these people should think before they speak.
Awesome, only the ignorant were saying that Joba should stay in the pen last year. Who closes once Mo gets hurt? First whos to say he gets hurt but if he does, Mark Melancon.
i never said he is a horrible starter i just prefer him in the PEN.. i think he should have been transition to be the yankees new Closer, Mo is getting old.. i hope you guys dont think he will be around till he is 50..
Its WAY too early to give up on Hughes. If he can stay healthy, he’s going to win a lot of games in his major league career. He has too much talent not to be successful.
What he needs is to be tougher. Perhaps this adversity will give him the toughness necessary to take it to the next level.
I definitely agree with this SJ44. I think/hope he learned from the struggles he had this past season and will be a better pitcher due to it. But that’s just what I think, we will see what happens with him.
Also, it’s sad that some people have totally given up on him already. I’m not saying crown him as the second coming, but have some patience and give him a chance.
“It’s not a matter of toughness. If you’re injured, you’re injured. That has nothing to do with toughness. Trying to be tough generally just makes the injury worse and puts you out of action for longer.”
this attitude is applied only to blog fave’s like phil but never to blog clowns like pavano apparently.
Awesome, what the heck are you talking about? I can’t believe this is being rehashed once again. The Yankees always stated that Joba was going to be a starter! Joba showed he has the stuff to be a starter. Most pitchers in the pen, are FAILED starters! Joba isn’t one of them. Mo was a failed starter!
Don’t go generalizing saying everyone wanted Joba in the pen that is far from the truth!
so just bring up a guy from the minors to close? That will work out great..
Mo is signed to a three year deal, he still has two years left.
SJ44, to compare Hughes with Mussina doesn’t make much sense as long as the kid only has two pitches. Yes, a pitcher can get by without being able to throw very hard, but not if he can’t fool hitters.
And to those who question ‘why keep him down there’ I’d say, because someone had hopes he would be able to learn a good slider or change.
I can’t believe I am reading and hearing people blaming the transition for Joba’s injury. Now people are saying it was a mistake for him to be made a starter.
What? Are those people saying that for real?
Awesome, so hold back a potential ace to possibly close just incase Mo gets hurt. That makes more sense.
TurnTwo,
No. Staying home for the first weekend this summer. I need a break from traveling! lol
Jennifer,
Some people always need to find someone to blame for things. When Wang got hurt running the bases, it was the training staff’s fault for not “teaching” him to run.
The Yankees did everything right in transitioning and protecting Joba.
Its why you hope its not a worse injury than what’s being reported and you guard against ANY temptation to bring him back too soon. If it means, they miss the playoffs? So be it.
Being a starter is much more valuable than a middle relief pitcher, long man, setup man, or closer. I can’t believe that this is really a debate with some people. If you don’t have a starter (and Joba is a future ace, not just your average starter) who can protect the lead for you through 6-7IP, you don’t even need that setup man or closer anyway. Unreal, how do you value a bullpen arm over a starter? I bet CC would be a great 8th inning/closer too. Or maybe Beckett. Lets throw Peavy in there as well. A starter is much more valuable, FACT.
If Mo happens to get hurt, Joba is not going to be our closer. We have options within the club to replace Mo, and none of their names are Joba.
SJ is absolutely right about not being obsessed with velocity. Hughes, when healthy has excellent movement and command and if you can do that at 91-93 you can be a big winner. A strong outing tonight and it would be very tempting to bring him back to NYC and let Giese return to long relief. Might have to carry an extra pitcher for a week or so, but this isn’t exactly a productive bench anyway. They can live without Christan if that’s what it takes to get the pitching settled.
Joba is not overworked and the “mental” adjustment of converting to a starter is what he wanted all along. The shoulder setback could help him in the long run as he learns to get away from the re-coil on his delivery. He might even learn to celebrate by pumping his glove hand!
“so just bring up a guy from the minors to close? That will work out great..”
He won’t be in the minors much longer genius. He’s ready right now but theres no spot for him at the moment. He’ll be in the bullpen for all of 2009. You do realize that Mo is signed beyond this season don’t you? Statistically he’s still arguably the best closer in the league. By the time Mo is ready to retire Melancon would have at least a full season in the majors.
what good is it if your starter goes 7ip and no one to finish the game?? look at the dumb team in Queens or even our hated Tigers.. they picked up a horrible pitcher in farnsworth now they cant close out a game.. thats why we have closers! if thats the case why do we need Mo why pay for him to stay around.. yankees need a great closer to close out.. if he wasnt there last night we would have lost again..
“Contreras said Hughes looked about as good in his last start as he ever has with the Yankees. His fastball command and velocity were both very good—93 to 95 mph, not 101 like the stadium gun showed—and Contreras said the curveball was as sharp as it’s been since 2006 when Hughes was so good for Trenton.”-Nardi Contreras.
How about Phil “Too scared to throw my changeup” Hughes?
Also what is this nonsense about Hughes having only 2 pitches? He has two plus plus pitches (fastball, curve) but he also has a changeup and slider. I’ve also heard he is working on a 2-seam fastball but most pitchers throw that anyways. His change is already an average pitch, he just needs to work on it some more. The slider was his best pitch throughout highschool but the Yankees had him stop throwing it because sliders are more risky to the arm. He only began throwing it again somewhat recently.
What makes Hughes a great pitcher is his command. He already has plus plus fastball command. The problem he had this year was he was trying to be too fine and throw a perfect pitch every time. Not to mention, its probably a bit difficult to spot your fastball with a cracked rib or two.
If Hughes is finally 100% healthy he will be huge for this team down the stretch.
Patrick,
By “toughness”, I don’t mean physical toughness. I mean mental toughness to handle the adversity the game brings you.
The last couple of outings in NY, Hughes melted down on the mound. That has to to change if he is going to be successful and I think all of what he has had to go through this year will help in that regard.
Diane,
He has more than two pitches. His changeup is very good. He just didn’t use it enough earlier in the year. That’s a pitch he can throw well and did so last year. Especially in his near no hitter in Texas.
What good is it having a starter go 5IP, giving up 6runs? Its not just about a closer, but giving your ballclub a chance to win a ballgame. More often then not, when a team is leading after the 8th inning, they win the ballgame. If you are losing heading into the 9th with no chance, what good is it to have anything more then that mopup man? I’m gonna stop debating this because honestly, this is a no brainer. You take a stud ace to give you 6-7IP every time of 0-2run ball over a ONE INNING guy who can possibly shut it down for you. How do you waste an arm like Joba for ONE INNING? Especially with 3 plus pitches and a 4th one coming.
Oye Vey, what good is a closer if you can’t get to him?
I can’t believe we are going over this AGAIN!
And by the way, not everybody is a Mariano Rivera. A Mariano Rivera is a once in a lifetime pitcher. Us Yankee fans have been spoiled, to say the least, having a closer like him shut down our ballgames. New York is in for a rude awakening when that man retires.
is there a yankee pitching prospect using the present pitching program that doesn’t get disabled for an extended period?
at what point does the program itself get looked at?
for those statistically inclined, where do the yankees rate on the health of their pitching prospects in the minor leagues compared to other teams?
Did anybody catch Rick Sutcliff say he thought that when Joba came back he would spend next year in the pen.
I am glad his health is good, but is there any analyst more ignorant? Does he pay any attention?
And if Joba has always been a reliever in his career and only had 2 plus pitches, I could see a reason for this argument. But when the man has been a starter his entire professional career and succeded, why change it?
I’m sure Hughes will pitch very well when the Yanks are out of the race and the games are meaningless.
I’ll make one request—please stop calling him Phil Franchise. I hate that name.
What really gets me is that Kei Igawa is 12-5 for Scranton, with 100 K’s. He would be a logical choice to bring up, if this were any other team or city. But he’s a prototypical AAAA pitcher. I think a change of scenery, to a lower pressure NL team would help him and the Yankees.
“By “toughnessâ€, I don’t mean physical toughness. I mean mental toughness to handle the adversity the game brings you.”
I pretty much figured that, I was just having a little fun
You are right, too. He never encountered any adversity in the minors. He’s dominated at every leven and in 2006 Hughes never faced a hitter with bases loaded. Thats great but it just shows he’s never encountered any obstacles in his career. Now that he has, lets hope he comes out the other end a better player.
By the way, I’m tired of people saying Hughes throws 90-91. Heres a quote from September 2006, from an interview with BaseballAmerica:
BA: Where is the velocity of your fastball right now, and do you consider it your best pitch?
PH: “It’s always my ‘go to’ pitch, because a well-located fastball is the best pitch in the game. I’m generally sitting between 92 and 94 (mph) with it, and I’ll touch 95-96. I’m mostly going with 4-seamers, although I’ll throw a few 2-seamers that are closer to 91-92.”
if Hughes is a failure, there’s a whole lot of top prospects around baseball should be called “failures” as well….Buchholz, Bailey, Owings, Kershaw…..
....they can’t all be Joba. they can’t be all Lincecum.
i bet a lot of the fans here who want to write off Phil Hughes still believe in the other guys on other teams.
i don’t understand why people post questions on this blog that simply thinking back would answer perfectly.
“Did anybody catch Rick Sutcliff say he thought that when Joba came back he would spend next year in the pen.
I am glad his health is good, but is there any analyst more ignorant? Does he pay any attention?”
problem is that you had a very similar situation with Papelbon in Boston, and it worked out, so now thats the standard.
what they arent taking into consideration is that Papelbon wanted back into the closer’s role because their bullpen was horrendous without him. they had no other option.
so yeah, his potential health risks were a small factor, and the move back to the bullpen might have been made for him eventually anyway, but that move was made bc thats where Papelbon wanted to be, and where Francona thought he was best utilized at teh time.
moosecall, if that happens, that will still be a great thing for the yankees. injuries happen but we still need these guys to develop and if the offense cant keep us in the race at least seeing a healthy and effective hughes will help the phil and the yankees greatly.
i bet there’s a lot of folks in the media who don’t want the next dominant pitcher in baseball to be pitching out of Yankee Stadium, so they’re going to knock Joba down a notch anywhere they can.
Let’s hope he heals well, comes back 110%, and is given enough time to do so. Like SJ said, if it means no playoffs this year, so be it. There’s still 25 guys going out there on the field every night that can make a playoff spot happen. It’s not like, without Joba, we can only send out 24 players.
Hughes’ performance against Texas last year in that stadium was amazing. Has to be one of the most dominating performances by a Yankee pithcer in the last 10 years. Mussina near perfecto against tht Red Sox that Sunday night in 2001 was #1 in my book. Clemens’ against the Mariners in the ALCS in 2000, 1 hitter with 15K’s is the other that comes to mind. Hughes stuff that night was that good. That’s the potential that this kid has. You can cry about his velocity all you want.
“if Hughes is a failure, there’s a whole lot of top prospects around baseball should be called “failures†as well….Buchholz, Bailey, Owings, Kershaw…..”
And Hughes is younger then all of them except for Kershaw, I believe. I think Hughes was younger then 11/18 pitchers in the FUTURES GAME. Patience is a virtue that most Yankee fans just don’t seem to have.
Yankee2123:
Igawa went unclaimed on waivers. Seems likely that everyone else shares your assessment that he’s a AAAA type pitcher. Certainly nobody was interested in paying $4M per season to find out.
The idea of returning Joba to the pen if he returns makes a lot of sense… for the rest of this season. It’ll keep his pitch count down, though I doubt he would be used on consecutive days.
Papelbon was told because of his shoulder he would be better off as a closer physically. I gotta wonder if Joba might have been told the same thing.
Papelbon has a shoulder defect which is why he was limited in how much he could pitch. It is monitored constantly but longevity for his career is questionable. The closer role was thought to be tougher on him because of the lack of scheduled pitching, but the starter role has a lot more pitches. Neither is idea for his shoulder problems.
“Papelbon was told because of his shoulder he would be better off as a closer physically. I gotta wonder if Joba might have been told the same thing.”
Didn’t Papelbon head into ‘07 spring training set to start? Somehow I remember it that way. That tells me he was medically cleared to be a starter. In the end, both the absence of a legit replacement and Papelbon’s apparent affinity for the job changed their mind just ahead of the season starting.
Seems to me Joba wants to start. So long as there is no structural damage, I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
86 –
I think the idea of Joba in the pen has been settled and I don’t think the organization will want to reopen it. Joba wants to be a starter, is able to perform at a very high level as a starter, and to move him back to the pen even for the rest of this year I think won’t happen.
If you have to rehab him longer to protect his innings then do it, but the rotation is the problem on this team and the bullpen is not (imo).
“Papelbon was told because of his shoulder he would be better off as a closer physically.”
but wasnt that more of a shoulder socket issue? that the muscles and tissue in/around the shoulder were not strong enough to keep his should from popping out?
“Papelbon has a shoulder defect which is why he was limited in how much he could pitch. It is monitored constantly but longevity for his career is questionable. The closer role was thought to be tougher on him because of the lack of scheduled pitching, but the starter role has a lot more pitches. Neither is idea for his shoulder problems.”
In other words, let’s turn to 2012 ESPN Baseball Tonight analyst Jon Papelbon…
At this point, Joba stays in the rotation. I’m no doctor, but I can’t imagine yo-yo’ing him back and forth will be stellar for his arm either. There will be a solution to this in 2009.
Scooter, what the Phil detractors forget is that in that Texas game his best pitch that night was his 3rd pitch, his changeup. It was killing batters like Texeira. All this talk about only having 2 pitches is just ignorant.
I don’t pretend to know the medical details, just that he said “The Doctors” recommended he remain in the bullpen because regular work for shorter periods would be better for him because of the nature of his shoulder abnormalities. He still wanted to be a starter despite that advice, but switched when the Sawx bullpen fell apart that spring.
I agree IF the medical advice is neutral, then Joba should be a starter. But for the remainder of THIS season is might be advisable for him to switch…. then again it might not be, that’s why I wrote I “wonder” if he might be told something similar to what Papelbon was told a few years back now that is shoulder has gotten a high level assessment.
Is that clearer? I’m not advocating a switch back, just speculating that it “might” be medically necessary short term and/or long term.
It’ll be hilarious when the Red Sox run Papelbon out of town like they do everyone else after his short tenure of usefulness expires. Gammons will write a column about how Papelbon was actually selling crack to teenagers in suburban Boston on the side all the while. He’ll probably pitch a couple of incomplete seasons with the Brewers or someone before hanging it up, citing the shoulder defect as the reason. And they’ll conveniently not invite him back to Fenway ever again.
anyone who still thinks Joba should be a reliever after watching him start should probably just give up baseball.
i mean, wow.
talk about willful ignorance.
I go back long enough to remember another young, blond pitching phenom who couldn’t seem to shake the injury bug. The Yankees finally decided to cut their losses and shipped him to Toronto for the immortal Jesse Barfield. That’s right, it was Al Leiter. Al went on to have a fine big-league career, anchoring the 1997 Marlins’ championship club and as the heart and sole of the Bobby V. Mets. The best of many we let get away. Phil will flourish, but patience is needed. What impressed me more than the near no-no in Texas, was his gutty performance against Cleveland last year. The kid, like Leiter, is for real. He and Joba will make a great 1-2 very soon.
gotcha 86
“anyone who still thinks Joba should be a reliever after watching him start should probably just give up baseball.”
there’s two camps within that. there’s the “maybe it’ll be better for his long-term health” camp and there’s the “Friends of Mad Dog Chris Russo” camp.
I can understand, but still disagree with, the first camp. The second camp needs to just go ahead and wear that shiny, new Billy Wagner t-shirt they’ve got stashed away. time to come out the Met fan closet…
Joba’s health will determine his future role. If this is just a bout with tendinitis, he probably goes back to the rotation next year.
However, if he doesn’t pitch again this year, he’s only looking at 120-130 innings of work next year, given his innings limits.
Its too early to make any definitive statement as to where he ends up (starter or bullpen) next season.
Its a very real question as to whether or not he can handle throwing 200 innings as a starter.
That will be a very interesting off-season question for the Yankees.
hmmm—-
Where has ANYONE suggested he SHOULD be a reliver?
Reading comprehension classes might be a good idea.
“Where has ANYONE suggested he SHOULD be a reliver?”
You are an idiot, scroll up and look at all of Awesome’s posts.
Patrick,
Can I make a request that we not call people idiots for no good reason? How about a little civility. Would you call the guy an idiot to his face.
Can we sue ‘Awesome’ for violating truth in advertizing?
“Would you call the guy an idiot to his face.”
Yuppers!
“Its a very real question as to whether or not he can handle throwing 200 innings as a starter.
That will be a very interesting off-season question for the Yankees.”
Aren’t we still pretty much in the infancy of that potential concern, though? I don’t feel like one and one already equal two here.
He needs to show that this is going to be a constant issue for him before we write him off as a starter. I don’t think the rest of this season gives us enough information to make that decision.
And by “us,” I, of course, mean that I’m expecting a call from Brian Cashman any minute now.
“Where has ANYONE suggested he SHOULD be a reliver? Reading comprehension classes might be a good idea.”
Maybe you didn’t, but there’s been a pretty constant group on here suggesting it.
If Joba doesn’t throw any more innings this season he’ll be back at a 140 IP limit next season. If thats the case, he won’t be throwing 200 innings until 2011. Kind of depressing but its the right thing to do.
Where has ANYONE suggested he SHOULD be a reliver?
– - – - – -
Rick Sutcliffe suggested it during the games last night.
“Where has ANYONE suggested he SHOULD be a reliver?”
i was afraid after i posted that you would think i was talking to you. i wasn’t. i understand your position.
but scroll up.
i’ll come back after my reading comprehension class is over and we can discuss it.
I think Joba’s durability is in question just like any pitcher that doesn’t have a track record of solid health.
I usually think Kellerman is a lightweight – but yesterday they were talking about the ability to stay healthy throughout a season as a skill, as much as luck. Durability is an attribute that Moose and (to a lesser extent) Pettitte have demonstrated.
Whether or not the talented younger arms of the yanks can be durable is a big factor in future success – which is why Cashman keeps on stacking up a ton of talented arms. (sadly, mostly right arms)
Jorge,
You have to figure in his prior medicals in his overall evaluation.
One of the reasons he dropped in the draft were because of medical issues. Moreso his elbow and forearm issues than his knee injury.
I don’t assume the Yankees info on him is 100% correct. Even Mike Mussina wouldn’t make that assumption and he works for the Yankees.
If its just tendinitis, that’s not a big deal. However, if tendinitis is a byproduct of another, undisclosed injury, that’s a different deal.
I doubt very much if that’s the case, the Yankees would go public with that information. Its much easier (and PR friendly) to say he has tendinitis, will rest for two weeks, then begin a throwing program “shortly thereafter”, the wording in the Cashman statement given to the media yesterday.
Either way, if he doesn’t pitch anymore this year, he’s only going to be able to give them 120-130 innings next year.
We end up going back to figuring out what is the best way to maximize those innings for 2009.
man, i wish i could read.
“We expected too much from him me my self i still like him better in the Pen.”
“last year you guys was saying JOBA is the truth in the pen now all of a sudden you guys saying JOBA is the best starter yanks have.. get out of the MEDIA life and look at reality.. who will close once MO gets hurt?? ”
“i never said he is a horrible starter i just prefer him in the PEN.. i think he should have been transition to be the yankees new Closer, Mo is getting old..”
“Either way, if he doesn’t pitch anymore this year, he’s only going to be able to give them 120-130 innings next year.
We end up going back to figuring out what is the best way to maximize those innings for 2009.”
hey… if nothing else, at least going into next season they have a template to transition him if they feel thats the best way to maximize the innings.
“Either way, if he doesn’t pitch anymore this year, he’s only going to be able to give them 120-130 innings next year.”
I think you are underestimating his limit next year. He threw 112 last year and was on course to go 140 or so this season. I doubt his limit would decrease because he threw less this year.
For example, Hughes only threw 22 innings this year and if he comes back in mid-august he won’t get much beyond 50-60 total for the season. That doesn’t mean he’ll be limited to 90 innings next year. He’ll still be at the same limit of ~160-170.
TK,
That’s very true. Being able to take the ball every fifth day is something of a lost art these days in the game.
Moose has said some fascinating stuff the last few days. He talked about how tough it is for young pitchers to throw a lot of innings early in their careers. He talked about the difference between pain and injury and how to manage your body to be able to answer the bell. He talked about the mental aspect of being able to take the ball every fifth day. Real interesting stuff for those of us who are into the mind games of baseball.
Everybody in baseball is overprotective of young pitchers today. Its a universal thing in the game. Its not limited to one or two teams.
That’s not saying you send a guy out there and blow him up. But, my God, you watch games and you would think a pitcher would disinigrate if he throws over 100 pitches.
It becomes a head game for young pitchers.
In Joba’s case, his health is a very real issue. He has had injury issues in the past.
He has a magical arm. How best to utilize it? Its very fair question that none of us have the answer toright now because we aren’t privy to all of the medical information on him.
Its not out of the realm of reality though to envision a scenario in which Joba may have to go back to the ‘pen in order to maximize his talents.
Obviously, this discussion is irrelevent if his health issues are minor. However, if there are issues with his health that could lead to bigger problems (health-wise) down the road, or those problems currently exist and the Yankees aren’t telling anybody, you have to factor all of that in when deciding how best to use him in the future.
Speaking of Rick Sutcliffe, Erin Andrews wore yellow again for him last night and Jeter gave him a welcome back. Jeter and Erin looked good together.
Speaking of Erin Andrews, who is indeed very pretty, have the gentleman here (lol) seen the July issue of GQ? Giselle Bundchen is pretty much perfect and makes Erin look like a farm girl.
Hmmm—-
I apologize if I got a bit defensive. Accepting the fact that what we will be told about Joba is either a partial truth or complete lie leads us to speculate on the best and worst case scenarios. He has just had the most extensive evaluation of all aspects of his throwing shoulder and there’s a wide range of things that can come out of it.
In the meantime we’ll just work through it in our own way.
It’s certainly reasonable to consider that he might be told bullpen work is better for his long term career viability. IF not, hopefully he’s full go by spring. I doubt he’ll start any more games this year.
S.I. once had an in-depth article on shoulder, elbow, and muscle issues and the consensus of most doctors and physicians was that the most unnatural thing to do in all of sports was to throw a baseball at consistent high velocity.
There are only so many Nolan Ryans, Tom Seavers around that had perfect pitching mechanics that took strain off of what ails the average pitcher. Even then, they may have been a freak of nature.
A pitcher is a ticking timebomb to go on the DL or have some kind of surgery during their careers. Few will ever escape it.
ATTENTION!: Did everyone know that the last regular season game at the stadium(which is looking more and more like the last game ever there) is going to be broadcast on espn by jon miller and joe “yankee hater” morgan? This is ridicilous. I want our boys broadcasting the game!
TKinDC,
I was thinking last night (yes, I’m capable of stringing cogent thoughts together) about how Joba and Hughes are so “injury prone”.
Kerry Woods, Mark Prior, and Mike Hampton are injury prone. A.J. Burnett is injury prone. Most, if not all, pitchers land on the DL either in the minors or the majors. The sample size is too small at this point to put either in the Woods, Prior, Hampton, Burnett, & Associates group.
Mel, I think that you’re a bit off about your Erin Andrews remark of her having “the look of a farm girl). I find that a girl who can pick her teeth (regardless of how many see has or doesn’t have) with straw is very sexy.
***“the look of a farm girl”***
i like hughes just as much as the next guy, but the title “franchise” is probably a bit overblown at this point. lets see him go a half season of ball first.
Funny story I heard about Moose when he was an Oriole.
He used to get very focused on his pitch count to the point where it really ticked off his pitch coach, Mike Flanagan.
So one time when Moose was pitching in a jam Flanagan came out to the mound and asked him how he was doing – Moose asked Flanagan where he was on his pitch count.
An irate Flanagan totalled up all Moose’s pitches in warm-ups, his bullpen before the game and before each inning and said ‘250 – now are you going to finish this or what?’
Moose stopped asking his pitch count after that.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-marshall051007
Very interesting article that defies all logic of strict pitch counts.
David Williams, the Ranger that collided with Pudge last night will be out 4 weeks. I really like Pudge. My heart got all fluttery when we held up that ball yesterday. Look for the way he stops a lot of potential wild pitches. It’s pretty cool that we get this opportunity to see this legendary catcher play for us. Hopefully he’ll make it back sooner than later. He said last night we should be ok for tonight but squatting with the monster charlie horse he has has got to be tough.
GB7,
So I guess you prefer Mary Ann over Ginger?
Just saying on a scale of 1 to 10, Erin’s about a 7 and Giselle’s about a 12.
I don’t know how Tom Brady can play football. Maybe she’s an operative sent by the Colts to distract him.
mel –
I think (ok, I hope) that it is just the body having trouble adjusting to the stress of taking the ball every 5th day. I agree with SJ that there is a mental as well as physical aspect of it.
Let’s just hope the young arms settle in and perform to their potential
Bronx Jeers:
Mussina’s pitching tonite. Doesn’t matter if Pudge is ready. He’s not catching.
BTW, the young player from Texas is named David Murphy.
Bronx Jeers,
David Murphy? I read that he stayed in the game but came out later with ligament damage.
I was also shocked that he leads the league in several offensive categories for rookies.
Boston lost a decent pitcher and good prospect in the Gagne deal. Too bad they won despite his contributions.
Not to worry Bronx Jeers, Moose is going tonight so Jose was catching regardless. Good to hear Pudge will be ready for Angels. Hopefully he can help guide Kennedy through his return.
Not to knock Posada, but the play last night was textbook plate blocking, probably the weakest part of Jorge’s game.
TK,
In re: to Joba. I hope it’s minor, so we can all move on. He really took to the role of the ace.
Re: Hughes, he admitted to succumbing to the pressure. Also said something about not squandering this chance. Let’s hope that the third time’s the charm. He just has to trust his stuff and his defense.
Notice how much the pitchers are walking batters in this series? They’ve got to stay aggressive as well as adjust to the officiating.
Just like basketball, if they’re going to call it a charge don’t keep doing it. Senseless.
It’s just beyond bad luck that Yanks have so many injuries this year; plus their annual slow start in early season, we have to wonder, who should be responsible for this?
They do have $200+M payroll, right?
Mel, you’re right. Mary Ann was perfection. Besides her wholesome beauty, she had her daddy’s farm. I can just picture it now. Mary Ann’s in the kitchen, fixing my breakfast, before a hard day’s work, milking the cows. slopping the hogs, plowing the the fields. She looks lovingly at me with those big brown eyes, as I stumble out to the table, in my off-white (I think) drawers, 3 days growth on my face, scratching myself, about the crack of noon. Amazed by how much she can accomplish outside by that time. What a gal. My only complaint is that she tends to let herself go.
Ginger is a tart. Not my type.
Red Sox claim Brian Giles off waivers from Padres. Has to be a block move to keep him from the Rays.
Guess it is old news, but the Rockies pick up Livan Hernandez. I thought for sure with Joba going down for a while that the Yankees would pick up Livan.
I know this sounds nuts, and it would take GREAT diplomacy skills by the Yankees but, I would give real thought to moving Posada to first and signing Pudge in the off-season.
Posada began his career as a second baseman. He has the hands to play first base. Tino Martinez thinks he could be a very good defensive first baseman. His bat, when is shoulder is healthy, is first base quality.
I realize it would take an amazing amount of diplomacy skills by the Yankees to convince him to do it. Nobody has more pride on the team, or works harder, than Posada.
However, a catcher coming off major shoulder surgery (his second shoulder surgery of his career) approaching 38 years old, is risky.
Having Pudge and Molina behind the plate is certainly tantalizing.
Just something I hope the Yankees are thinking about. Pudge really wants to stay and I think he would have no problems doing a 2 year deal. He took Boras out of the equation when he pushed a deal to the Yankees. Boras would have little or no impact on Pudge’s dealings with the Yankees in the off-season.
That saves the Yankees from getting tooled in the Teixiera Derby and also leaves a lot of money on the table to address other weaknesses on the team.
Not saying they should do it right now. Just hope they are thinking about it.
GB7,
You forgot the most important thing. She can roll her own tobacky.
Too bad the kids don’t get to watch reruns of shows like Beverly Hillbillies, I Love Lucy, and I Dream of Genie like I did.
How was it watching those groundbreaking shows in their original?
if you have 2 plus pitches, you’re not a reliever. Unless you lack stamina. Most starters don’t have 2 plus pitches.
Phil can succeed with 2 plus pitches(look at Cole Hamels), but the emergence of his changeup and reintroduction of his slider will determine just how high he goes.
SJ – i was thinking the same thing myself this very morning. posada can be ornery, so it would take a lot of diplomacy. and i know he’s going to come off the surgery with a chip on his shoulder (huh…thats kind of an inappropriate metaphor), but i have to think pudge/molina with posada at 1B/DH would be a great option. and we can use that extra cash that we would have blown on a 10 year/200M contract for teixeira to sign every pitching free agent on the market.
Giles is a 10-and-5 guy… can’t be traded without his approval waivers or no waivers
Brady can concentrate on football because Giselle is not playing center!
Jorge has the same weakness as Jeter on tag plays… they take the throw too far in front of the base/plate and then sweep tag the runner. Pudge and Jose have better fundamentals by planting their left leg on the corner of the plate.
I. too believe longevity for a starter is a combination of physical gifts, physical and mental toughness and goof fortune. Let’s hope the Yankees guys get more of all three.
SJ
The other day there was some baseball analyst on the radio (unfortunately can’t remember who) who was talking about the Yankees picking up Pudge.
This guy was alleging that Detroit was eager to get rid of him because Pudge was doing things like refusing to meet with the pitchers before games to discuss strategy and pitch selection.
Have you heard anything to that effect?
SJ44,
With the money they’re paying him, Jorge better do what’s best (easier said than done). But Jorgie’s his own person. If you didn’t have Jose it might be an easier sell. How smart was it to give Jose a 2 yr. deal? Didn’t realize how important Jose would be to us. And universally loved by all the pitchers. In fact he might be the deal breaker for negotiating with Moose.
Jorge was adamant that he’s a catcher, but if he continues to get abused by runners eventually he would have to face reality.
SJ
Said the same thing to some friends watching last nights game. Keeps roster much more flexable. Posada can still do some catching (and DH). Posada’s hitting and OBP are good enough or better then league avg 1B and his D would be no worse then Giambi’s has been. Plus the shoulder will be much less an issue.
I think the key to remarking the roster is guys who can do multiple things, Posada could be in that mold. He would have to be sold on the idea though.
evan
August 7th, 2008 at 10:42 am
ATTENTION!: Did everyone know that the last regular season game at the stadium(which is looking more and more like the last game ever there) is going to be broadcast on espn by jon miller and joe “yankee hater†morgan? This is ridicilous. I want our boys broadcasting the game!
These two jacka—es should be limited to red sox games only!
ray (sox fan),
He explained all that in his presser. He was upset with Detroit because they wouldn’t give him the “C” to put on his uni. He said, “I vant da see, just like Tec. I want eberyone to know I am dee cacherrr”
Ray,
He and Leyland’s relationship ran its course in Detroit. He did walk out of a pitchers meeting after he was told Brandon Inge was going to be the everyday catcher. Frankly, if I was him, I also would have walked out of that meeting.
He, like a lot of guys, has a big ego. He’s also a workhorse and a MUCH better catcher than Brandon Inge.
Just one of those things that happen when a relationship between a player and team runs its course.
I have always had a lot of respect for Pudge. Like Posada, he’s a winning player. People criticize his gamecalling but, he didn’t seem to have big problems calling games to me in ‘03 and ‘06, especially in the post-season.
Its amazing how “good” a catcher’s gamecalling is when you have good pitching! lol
He’s one of those guys that can be a real asset for the Yankees next year, IMO. Mainly because you wouldn’t have to make a long term commitment to him.
I would hate to lose him and have a situation arise where Posada’s shoulder is not healthy or not good enough to catch everyday.
Jobatime, we should start a campign to get them removed from that broadcast. It is a travesty that two haters should be allowed to announce the closing of our stadium.
My predicted 2009 openning day lineup
1. Jeter SS
2. Cano 2nd
3. Abreu RF
4. Arod 3B
5. Matsui DH
6. Nady LF
7. Posada 1B
8. IRrod C
9. Cabrera/Jackson/Gardner/ CF
I see Damon getting traded. He would be very valuable in last yr of contract and the complete lack of OF FA. That could bring back some position prospects.
Mel, I love those shows. I watch them on TV Land and have mot of the DVD sets, along with the original “Superman” series, Time Tunnel, Green Acres and McHale’s Navy. Mary Ann won’t let me watch “Petticoat Junction”, though. I think that she’s jealous of BobbiJo.
have got… this has me excited.
SJ44,
Seeing the dearth of good catchers, if Pudge doesn’t sign with us what are his prospects? Where does he end up? He’s still a starter, right? (making the Inge thing even more puzzling).
no way that lineup happens
The Franchise has a chance to return, he’ll be on MILB.com tonight since the Scranton game will be televised. MAn I hope he puts a foot in his detractors mouths.
Jennifer i agree. If only that would work. I have never seen such outright bias in announcing from ‘independent’ announcers. If i was blind and didnt know i was watching ESPN, i would assume i was watching NESN.
“Guess it is old news, but the Rockies pick up Livan Hernandez. I thought for sure with Joba going down for a while that the Yankees would pick up Livan.”
they very well may have, but they never had the chance. the Rockies put in a waiver claim and (i think) they had priority over the yankees.
Agree with Fredo, anyone who saw that Texas game last year remains a believer in Phil Hughes. He was unhittable that day. So it must be in there somewhere (saw it again in playoff game last year). And c’mon, he is 22. Disagree on the Jorge to first suggestion. Saw all the Angel games last weekend, and I came away bigtime impressed with Tex. Great plate discipline, power, presence and superb defense. Knew all this before, but seeing it in person for 3 days conviced me he is No. 1 target (assuming he has an interest in playing in NY (but OT’s Day festivities may have helped in that regard)).
SJ –
Are you trying to hold down the fort until Monterro is ready at 1b/c? Seems rational to me.
Tex is going to get PAID – especially if the Angels perform in the post-season and he contributes.
“they very well may have, but they never had the chance. the Rockies put in a waiver claim and (i think) they had priority over the yankees.”
Nope, AL team has priority over NL team in this situation.
The scranton game will be televised? Can I watch this in NYC?
Giles is a 10-and-5 guy… can’t be traded without his approval waivers or no waivers
i am not sure how they would count this, but Giles hasn’t technically been with the Padres for 5 years.
he was traded to the Padres on 8/26/2003, so he still has a few weeks. but i am not sure how they measure those 5 years.
here is his contract:
“he receives a full NO-TRADE clause in 2006 and a limited NO-TRADE clause in 2007 and 2008 that allows him to veto trades to eight teams (BOS, BAL, DET, WAS, MIL, TAM, FLA and PIT)”
interesting that Boston is listed
Hughes isn’t a better option at this point than Sid or Rasner. He was bad this year. He’s no savior.
mel
Pudge to the Sox would have to be a possibility.
“Nope, AL team has priority over NL team in this situation.”
gotcha. i couldn’t remember if it was the opposite league that got first shot, but i believe you are right.
Mel and SJ44,
Thank you both for your informative responses. I appreciate it.
It took Edison Volquez till age 24 to figure it out, to think Hughes is 22 and still w/ alot of upside left, it took Johan(now Ervin) Santana until age 26 to develope. I absolutely believe Hughes has alot of upside left it just depends on the adjustments they have made to his delivery.
Guess it is old news, but the Rockies pick up Livan Hernandez. I thought for sure with Joba going down for a while that the Yankees would pick up Livan.
Livan stinks just read his stats and thank god Colorado traded for him.
hmmmm, That’s not true. Teams in the AL would have had priority over the NL teams on waiver claims for Hernandez.
V,
Hughes has the potential to be better than Sid and way better than Rasner. Phil and Darryl aren’t even in the same zip code.
The scranton game will be televised? Can I watch this in NYC?
Only on MILB.com
“Giles is a 10-and-5 guy… can’t be traded without his approval waivers or no waivers”
He’ll likely be pulled back which means he can’t be traded at all, I believe.
Yes, Jeremy. But you need to subscribe to MiLB.TV.
ok i am back to start another arguement.. lol.. Should the yankees keep pudge til 2009 since he is only here till the end of the year?? what happen to Molina? or do we keep 3 catchers??
“The scranton game will be televised? Can I watch this in NYC?”
according to the link below, looks like the game is available thru milbTV for a small fee.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/multimedia/video.jsp?sid=t531
Hughes isn’t a better option at this point than Sid or Rasner. He was bad this year. He’s no savior.
“not better than Rasner” and “no savior” are not really the same thing.
Hughes doesn’t have to be “a savior” to be better than Rasner.
he just has to be “not awful”, which is what Rasner has been.
it is very possible that he can return and be “not awful”.
so what if he was “bad this year”? he was injured. and he wasn’t bad last year. all of the reports on his stuff have been very positive.
as soon as he is ready he should replace Rasner.
ray,
Anytime. Always willing to help a closet Yankee fan.
What is Boston going to do with Tek? Sign him and have a strong backup to help with the workload?
i also think lil Melky should have went to the Twins for Johan. We can find someone else to run and catch a ball in Center.. melky has a hole in his bat..
I’d actually heard from an impeccable source that, before the Yankees engineered the Marte-Nady trade, the Yankees were pondering Giles as a relatively low-cost, replacement for Matsui.
I can’t fathom why the Sux would want him unless they’re worried about Big Pati.
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HMMN, I’m glad to see you this morning, for a change.
What did you think of the post on your girlfriend’s site about Joba. Dr. Dale Beaverman was very critical of Pete’s interpretation of the injury and more sanguine than any other source I’ve read about the prospects of his return this year. Do they know something we don’t or are they just trying to be their contrarian selves?
What a joke. . .I guess to get all the praise around here you need to get injured two years in a row and do. . .not much of anything.
But Melky, well he should just be DFA’d ASAP because he isn’t Bernie in his prime. . .
Phil is cuter though, I can see the attraction for some of you guys. . .lol
keep molina and pudge. i think until he shows otherwise, you can only count on posada in the dh/1b mix.
Why would the AL have priority? Because he was placed on waivers by an AL team?
on the so called 2 pitch pitcher.. Garza and Jackson on tampa really are 2 pitch pitchers. CLiff Lee is a 2 pitch pitcher. If you have a very good fastball Lee(low 90’s) and locate it well you can be very good with 2 pitches. SUpposively Phil has 3 pitches…Volquez has 2 pitches
The yanks have been beaten a bunch of times this year by guys with 2 pitches, I actually remember them losing to guys that threw over 80% fastball only in more then 1 game…
Let’s hope the mental health break works:
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080807&content_id=3267514&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Trust in Hughes yes.But Hughes and Kennedy is stupid.We did that and it blew in our faces.But at least we won’t have Hughes,Joba and Kennedy to start the season.
i like pudge and very sorry for Jorge but i think it is time for him to learn 1b from donnie baseball
The thing to wonder about if/when Posada switches to 1B is how he will handle it. Not just initially, his pride, the blow to the ego, etc… But did anyone notice the few games that he has played first base how involved he seems to be in discussions when the catcher comes out to talk to the pitcher? I’m not saying that’s good or bad, but if Pudge or Molina is the