Mussina: Joba can come back
-
- August
- 7
The Yankees are not giving a timetable on Joba’s return. He’ll rest, get treated with anti-inflammatory drugs and then evaluated again. If cleared, he’ll start a throwing program. How long that program will last isn’t certain.
With several caveats, Joe Girardi said he was confident Chamberlain would be back.
“We’re going to make sure he’s healthy before we put him back out there,†Girardi said. “We’ve watched him all year and we’re not going to change our approach.â€
Mike Mussina hasn’t had rotator cuff tendinitis but has had biceps tendinitis. He seemed like a good person to talk to about this.
“To say he’ll come back, that’s not out of the question if that is really what he has. You just have to wait for it to calm down,†he said. “If the word tendinitis is included, it’s not bad.”
At this point, that is the best info we have. Keep in mind what Moose is saying. If that is really what he has, it’s not serious. But virtually every injury a Yankee has suffered this season has proven to be more serious than what the team initially said. Posada, Rodriguez, Bruney, Wang, Hughes, etc.
In April, Jorge Posada was placed on the disabled list with “rotator cuff tendinitis.” The official line then was that rest and rehab would be what he needed. We all know what happened. Up until literally the day before he had his season-ending surgery, Girardi said Posada was improving.
Dr. David Altchek told The Post this week that he knew in April that Posada needed surgery and should have ended his season then.
“My intent was that it was a significant injury and I mentioned that he shouldn’t try,” Altchek said.
So what is the truth this time? We’ll just have to wait and see. Hopefully it is not a serious injury because watching Joba pitch is a lot of fun.
UPDATE, 2:08 a.m.: Tyler Kepner of The Times has a good take on the situation on their blog.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, August 7th, 2008 at 12:09 am by Peter Abraham.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Peter Abraham
Good win – let’s pray Moose is right.
and in other news… FARVE TO THE JETS!!!!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp08/news/story?id=3522971
jets will still suck
Joba will be back all is good in yankee kand
That’s a lot of news for the Yankees to give out. It doesn’t sound terrible though
Go Yankees Go Bret!!
Lets just hope the ‘offcial’ word on the golden shoulder is accurate. If so, maybe everything Joba will be fine next year.
In the meantime I’m thinking October ain’t happening this year unless Kennedy & Hughes prove they’re worthy of the pre-season optimism.
That should become apparent in a few weeks and certainly by the time Joba would be on a path back to the rotation. Especially if October was a long shot, ’save Joba’ would be my approach.
kennedy is going to make the most important start of his carrer on friday… hope the would be fine
go yankees!!!!
I agree with Moose.
A rotator tear would be obvious since he’d lose a range of motion. Biceps tendinitis is very common among, pitchers, swimmers, and tennis players. All use their shoulder in an overhead, repetitive manner.
It’s usually caused by an impingement irritating that tendon. It’s a potential precursor to a tear, but the athlete would have to repeatedly perform a very painful motion to tear it. The problem here is that as the impingement causes swelling which worsens the impingement which worsens the tendinitis.
Anyway, rest, stretching, strengthening and anti-inflammatories is usually all it takes.
Wasn’t Joba having pain in the biceps and deltoid area? A pitcher would tear the tissues of the rotator on the outside of his shoulder not the front. Weight lifters tear their biceps tendon by curling way too heavy weights. It’s not responsible for rotating the shoulder but it does get in the way and get inflamed.
Well Dr. Andrews image as the grim reaper took a hit today much to the nervously exhausted jubilation of the faithful.
I sure wouldn’t mind seeing Joba return to the hill come september.
If the Jets can beat the Pats this year, would that count as some sort of charity double Superbowl championship for NY?
I had Ponson as the odd man out during the Washburn breakdown last week and I actually like the guy. Looked like he smelled blood tonight after the Yanks took the lead. That’s always a good sign.
Arod needs some strip club therapy. Like tonight.
Incognito – when they were talking on the mound before taking Joba out, either he or they touched the outside of his shoulder at what looked like the deltiod area.
If Joba could come back in early September that wouldn’t be so bad…if we could get Hughes back sooner and he pitches like he did down the stretch last season…who knows?
If, only if…
Baseball is funny though-even if that doesn’t pan out, sometimes you can get help from unexpected sources…we’ve all seen if before…the Yankees seem to find a way…
We can still make a run I believe…the post season is still possible!
arod needs to get moved in the batting order
As long as Joba’s extremities are all intact, everything will be fine in Yankeeland.
Let’s hope that the Rays’ schedule proves to be brutal down the stretch. Everytime I look they’re playing in that stupid arena.
ANSKY- Any trainer would ask him if it hurt on the outside, that’s tell tale sign of a tear. They’d take him to the clubhouse and do range of motion tests.
The Yanks have a tried and true protocol for all forms of rc tendinitis (and other common aches). He’ll rest, get medicine then start a carefully supervised throwing program. If they think he’ll be back, it’s because they know what they’re talking about and aren’t just guessing.
And keep in mind, if any player that’s at all important to the Yankees had any problem at all with his rotator, they’d get an opinion from Andrews. He’s the foremost expert on rotator cuffs and sports surgery.
mel-
The Trop is such a joke. It’s even worse in person, almost like playing baseball in a arena football stadium.
Steve Phillips thinks Joba should return to the bullpen where he “was so good last year”.
Yeah Incog … that could have been the line of questioning a theat poin. I saw the same thing on TV as everyone else did but there was no audio of what they were saying. You could lip read the word ‘pop’ during the convo. Was it part of an answer or a queston? I don’t know … didn’t happen to see that part so closely.
But at least for now the news is not as bad as we were bracing for.
TB starts 10 game road trip tomorrow, hopefully we can take advantage of it.
farve is such a lil baby unbeliavable that he is a jet but he acted like an infant the past 2 weeks
ray’s schedule is alot like the yankees the are playing 13 of 17 on the road now then have 16 home and 17 road games left.
the yankees have 14 of 17 on the road now, then 16 home and 16 left on the road.
Here are my bold predictions for the rest of the season. Let me know what you think.
* Kennedy reminds us why we had high hopes for him coming into the season
* Phil returns in mid-August and reminds us that he’s Phil freaking Hughes
* Ponson pitches just well enough to stay in the rotation until Joba gets back
* Joba returns the first week of September
* Matsui also returns as the full-time DH
* Girardi realizes that Melky is a 4th outfielder and goes with and outfield of Nady, Damon, and Abreu… like tonight
* Yanks play final regular season home game on September 21st, leave town within two games of a playoff spot (not saying whether it will be division or wc, but likely wc)
* Yanks head to Boston to close out the season, needing 2 of 3 to clinch a spot and bring life back to Yankee Stadium one last time… Joba, Phil and Moose go against Beckett, Matsuzaka and Lester…
it can happen, right?
LOL Steve Philips.
I’d rather have the innings as a starter. I don’t buy the bullpen argument. Anyone that knows anything about baseball knows that a good starting rotation makes your bullpen more effective. So, usually when your starters suck, your bullpen sucks, but when your starters are good, your bullpen is good. When has a good bullpen with a mediocre starting rotation been a championship team?
I’d rather have a good starter and only need 1 or 2 innings from my pen than ok starters and 4 innings from my pen.
“Steve Phillips thinks Joba should return to the bullpen where he “was so good last yearâ€.”
So, keep him in the rotation it is. Whenever in baseball you come to a tough question on player moves, ask yourself, what would Steve Phillips do? Then you know the exact opposite is the correct answer.
“TB starts 10 game road trip tomorrow, hopefully we can take advantage of it.”
Didn’t realize that…but definitely that will be a big opportunity…
We must beat Texas tonight and then we must beat the Angels in their park…2 out of 3 against them would be something!
Let’s Go Yanks!!!!
Redding,
S**ve Ph*****s name should not be mentioned here as far as I’m concerned. Just refer to him as “The biggest moron on ESPN”
As in “The biggest moron on ESPN thinks Joba should return to the bullpen where he “was so good last yearâ€.
Don’t worry. We’ll know who you are talking about.
What is most important is that Joba gets the treatment that he needs. If he can help us later that would be great. But not if it hurts him down the line. This team pulled together today. They should be able to do that every night. And you have to for teammates that are injured. Great play by Pudge. Good pitching by Ponson. The offense came through. That is what wins games. We will need that in the days ahead. I love this team and I want them to win. I haven’t given up. We just need some good luck for a change. Now it is time for it to click in.
ANSKY- An impingement feels like a pop. Rotate your shoulder, you feel it pop or crack. That popping is the impingement or the biceps tendon against the collar bone and the humerus when your arm is raised. Do that over and over and over and eventually it will start to hurt and pop more. A tear would pop too, but he wouldn’t be able to raise his arm after that.
Redding
August 7th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Steve Phillips thinks Joba should return to the bullpen where he “was so good last yearâ€.
Does anyone listen to him anymore?
I approach the rest of the season as Joba won’t be there. Forget about him.
I’m not saying he can’t come back, but no one should be counting on him to come in and rescue the team in Sept.
This is the season right now. The rest of August.
If this team can start hitting and fielding like they did tonight and the bullpen doesn’t get overworked, we can still be right in the middle of this.
I thought they played with a bit of a sense of urgency tonight and I just pray they can continue playing that way even though it can wear the team down.
The slow start to the season has made the next 2 months a sprint and the Yankees can’t let up.
If Cash can scoop up a starter from the waiver/trade process, good.
But I don’t think anyone should be dismissing what Sidney Ponson has done for this team. He’s no savior, but the guy pitched a good game tonight and kept the team in it when they went and gave him the lead.
The Yanks have to take the attitude that “we play today, we win today” and get their confidence back.
I still don’t think it’s too late and I’m more pessimistic than most around here.
DubP Los Angeles
August 7th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Here are my bold predictions for the rest of the season. Let me know what you think.
* Kennedy reminds us why we had high hopes for him coming into the season
* Phil returns in mid-August and reminds us that he’s Phil freaking Hughes
* Ponson pitches just well enough to stay in the rotation until Joba gets back
* Joba returns the first week of September
* Matsui also returns as the full-time DH
* Girardi realizes that Melky is a 4th outfielder and goes with and outfield of Nady, Damon, and Abreu… like tonight
* Yanks play final regular season home game on September 21st, leave town within two games of a playoff spot (not saying whether it will be division or wc, but likely wc)
* Yanks head to Boston to close out the season, needing 2 of 3 to clinch a spot and bring life back to Yankee Stadium one last time… Joba, Phil and Moose go against Beckett, Matsuzaka and Lester…
it can happen, right?
I like your way of thinking DubP.
Redding August 7th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Steve Phillips thinks Joba should return to the bullpen where he “was so good last yearâ€.
I think Steve Phillips needs a functional MRI of the brain.
I value Steve Phillips’ opinion as much as I do any other TV dude that has his head planted squarely up his @$$ !
I posted this on the previous thread, but I think it bears repeating. Not all of us Packer fans think Brett Favre is the messiah.
Favre traded to the JETS?
I’m a long time Packer fan and I say GOOD RIDDANCE!!
He can take his ego driven, wrangler wearin’, interception machine somewhere else. Hey Jets fans have fun while he throws 22 ints. this year.
The guy is the most overrated quarterback in the history of professional football.
Joba will for sure be back soon. I had this injury last year and it doesn’t take all that long to heal if treated properly.
Favre to Jets and the Yanks actually win its a good feeling.
Dubp Los Angeles…I like your senerio….
Here’s the article about the kid who signed. He really wanted to be a Yankee. He got the best of both worlds. Pinstripes and a college fund. And he gets to keep his arm. Isn’t Rice known for grinding their pitchers?
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080806&content_id=3265682&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Don’t tell Pete but I think Favre will abuse on 18-1 this season behind the newly rebuilt O-line.
David Cone made extremely light of it just like Mussina did. He said you rest it for a little while, take the medications, and wait a few weeks.
Pepitone,
I don’t think you understand how much pain Favre have inflicted over the years on 49ers fans like myself. So I wouldn’t say he is the most overrated QB ever.
But you are probably right that Favre is overrated at this point.
DFox
August 7th, 2008 at 12:50 am
David Cone made extremely light of it just like Mussina did. He said you rest it for a little while, take the medications, and wait a few weeks.
I don’t think anyone takes it as light. But it could have been worse. And you go from there.
Fellow Yankee fans it’s not happening for us this year. That’s ok, even if we made it we would be one and done anyway. I do like the way our rotation could look next year:
Joba, Hughes, Wang, Pettitte, Ponson/Mussina/?
With the returning bullpen and few tweaks here and there in the field – I don’t see why we couldn’t have a ballclub that would be competitive for many years to come.
I’m so sick of hearing about Favre. John Madden must be wetting himself with Favre in NY lol.
Moose 14-7 3.44
IPK 0-3 7.41
Giese 1-3 2.51
Andy 12-9 4.34
Ponson 7.2 4.23
.
ANYONE that thinks that we can go to “war” the rest of the season with THAT rotation and make the playoffs needs to stop smoking da bananas, like RIGHT NOW ! Either the Yankees make a move to get at least ONE decent starter ( likely this is going to take 2 and don’t tell me that Hughes is one of them as he is TOTALLY nowhere near a for sure ANYTHING )..then we are really just folding the tent and packing it in for the year.
Don Vito,
Is that really you? I can’t believe you have no faith!
non-baseball but -
I understand your point, I’m simply referring to the chattering classes on ESPN and sports talk that have him in the top 3 or 4 qbs of all – time. I would place Bart Starr over him any day.
The luster began to erode for me in that Super Bowl loss to Denver. He had a chance to show the world that he could bring his team back to tie the game, and he choked.
But the last straw was the playoff game against the Rams when he threw 7 interceptions and excused himself with the assine statement that “that’s how I play the game.” Implying if we don’t like it tough! That told me all I wanted to know about this guy. He was, and is, all about “Brett Favre.”
So, ESPN feels inclined to detail the geography of the NYC area for us on SportsCenter and specify which parts of Central-NJ are appealing to Brett and which are not.
I wonder if they will set up NFL Life sets outside the Sussex County Hunting Lodge.
Pepitone, I totally disagree about Favre. His interception rate matches up pretty well with all of the other quarterbacks that you might place on the list of greats ahead of him. Look at the top 15 all time interceptions-wise. Most of it is HOF’ers. Yes, Favre is 1st on the list. He is also first on the toucdowns and yards lists. The only guy that you can point to in terms of interceptions and say- he was better at protecting the ball than Favre is Montana. Of course, Montana also had 170 less touchdowns to go with his 140 less INT’s. The point is, Favre’s loose nature with the ball is something shared by many great quarterbacks, probably because most of them believe they can make every throw
Incognito,
“but the athlete would have to repeatedly perform a very painful motion to tear it”
That repeated painful motion is called throwing a baseball. Can you imagine your arm rotating 90 degrees backward and then forward 100+ times every five days for six months? We take these guys for granted. They are human beings with connective tissue just like the rest of us.
“It’s not responsible for rotating the shoulder but it does get in the way and get inflamed.”
The biceps tendon becomes a stabilizer and assists the rest of the rotator cuff muscles during peak external rotation.
Ponson is a big game pitcher.
He has pitched his best games against the Rays, Twins, Angels, Mets, and now the Rangers.
Actually, every game he has pitched this year has been against a playoff contender.
Moshe-
Fine, but one thing you left out from all those other stats; a winning attitude that will sacrifice for the team over personal success. Favre could care less if his interceptions cost the team the game. I have watched most of his games and I can tell you that he cost us perhaps 2 more Super Bowls with his “gunslinger” mentality. Holmgren knew it, that’s why he had him on a tight leash. Sherman just let him throw the ball up for grabs. Mc Carthy wanted to put him on more of a leash too, and I think that’s why he wanted to retire.
Anyway, enough with football, this is a baseball blog. But like I said, Jets fans have fun!
Pete was close to putting money on Joba being done for the season this afternoon
Pepitone- disagree about that, but I sense I wont change your mind, so back to baseball.
Moshe,
From the last thread. Yes, if you chose to go with Rodgers then you have to let Favre go. All this drama and looking foolish for a 4th round pick?
Besides the Jeter question was moot. He would die before putting on red socks. I bet he doesn’t even have anything red in his walk-in closet.
just wondering
is it possible to hit a 3-run single?
phantom-
Joba just started feeling pain as far as I know. That’s why the yankees aren’t letting him pitch. And by repeated, I mean pitching every day.
There are many tendons that are stabilizers and assist during all sorts of motions, but that’s not how you tear a tendon, that’s how you get tenditis in those tendons. I agree that pitching is an awkward motion and that Joba is human. But it doesn’t sound like a rotator cuff tear to me that’s all I’m saying.
Steve, just hit a gapper and only run to first. Three runs will score and you have a single.
mel –
Yes, Rice University is notorious for running their pitchers into the ground. Philip Humber is one example of many pitchers who came through that program and eventually broke down and never rediscovered their once dominating stuff.
This was the best case scenario for Marshall, no doubt.
Mel- Come on? Seriously? Its bad for business- you dont improve your competition and give up an asset that can bring you a draft pick. And a pick that could become a second or even first rounder is huge in the NFL.
If its Joba, Andy, Moose, Hughes and IPK/Ponson in September and the deficit is around 5 I think its possible. The question is can the Yanks keep the deficit at 5 for the next 3 weeks.
Imagine if Ponson starts a playoff game for us?
“Fellow Yankee fans it’s not happening for us this year. That’s ok, even if we made it we would be one and done anyway. I do like the way our rotation could look next year:”
Thanks Pepitone. Since you have spoken and said that the season is over I can get on with other things in my life. Thank you Pepitone, the G’d of Baseball.
“ANYONE that thinks that we can go to “war†the rest of the season with THAT rotation and make the playoffs needs to stop smoking da bananas, like RIGHT NOW !”
Don Vito, shouldn’t you be jumping off of a bridge right about now?
“Here are my bold predictions for the rest of the season. Let me know what you think.
* Kennedy reminds us why we had high hopes for him coming into the season
* Phil returns in mid-August and reminds us that he’s Phil freaking Hughes
* Ponson pitches just well enough to stay in the rotation until Joba gets back
* Joba returns the first week of September
* Matsui also returns as the full-time DH
* Girardi realizes that Melky is a 4th outfielder and goes with and outfield of Nady, Damon, and Abreu… like tonight
* Yanks play final regular season home game on September 21st, leave town within two games of a playoff spot (not saying whether it will be division or wc, but likely wc)
* Yanks head to Boston to close out the season, needing 2 of 3 to clinch a spot and bring life back to Yankee Stadium one last time… Joba, Phil and Moose go against Beckett, Matsuzaka and Lester…
it can happen, right?”
Wow this gave me alot of hope I’d be happy if just half of those teams happen.
*things.
interesting sentiments from kepner’s blog (which have also been echoed by pete and mark feinsand at various points throughout the season):
“In seven years on the Yankees’ beat, I have learned to be skeptical with official information on injuries.
When Brian Bruney hurt his foot in April, we were told he had no structural damage. (He was out more than three months.) When Phil Hughes hurt his rib a week later, we were told there was nothing wrong with him physically. (He’s still out.) When Chien-Ming Wang hurt his foot in mid-June, we were told he could be back this season. (He’s still on crutches.)”
however, if i learned one thing from trisha today, it’s that the yankees are exactly as forthright as they need to be about injuries, so, naturally, the initial diagnoses they gave of bruney, hughes and wang were all correct. at the time. when joe girardi, a man who knows baseball and baseball injuries, tells you joba will be back well, you can take that to the bank, my friends. unless, of course, something changes. which, as we’ve seen, isn’t out of the question.
nevermind that beat writers, guys who follow the team every day, are skeptical of the “official” word on yankees injuries. we should not be. we should take joe girardi at his word. we should take the yankees organization at their word because, y’know, history indicates they always give it to us straight.
thanks again for the lesson, trish! oh, and people don’t dislike sidney ponson because of “ire in a past life.” people don’t like sidney ponson because his reputation for being an egomaniacal clubhouse cancer who doesn’t care one whit about anything other than personal accomplishments has preceded him wherever he’s gone. people don’t like sidney because when MILTON BRADLEY says you’ve got problems, you’ve got problems. and, all of that aside, people in new york don’t like sidney because, last time he was a yankee, he stunk up the joint but good.
you seem like a decent person, from what i’ve gathered, and you certainly follow the team closely. i don’t have any problem with you personally, but to think that the yankees are always completely honest about injuries is naive at best. that’s all i’m saying. i do believe you make an excellent point that we should all wait until we get official word to start wringing our hands over an official injury but, as we’ve seen in the case of posada, it sometimes takes a few months to get the full story from the organization, so pardon those of us who are skeptical.
and pardon me if the only – and i mean ONLY – reason i wish sidney ponson any success is the fact that he’s in pinstripes.
Kepner’s point would make sense if you disregard the fact that when Wang got injured, he was hurt so badly and in so much pain that when he got to home plate he fell into Robinson Cano’s arms. When Bruney got hurt, you could see he was in a ton of pain, and limping. When Hughes got hurt, his velocity was down, and he simply couldn’t pitch… None of the above applied to Joba. He wasn’t even going to come out of the game but Girardi caught him. That’s why I don’t think anyone has any evidence or reason to contradict what the Yankees say it is.
And for the Wang injury, if I remember correctly, right after it happened they said hopefully he would be back this season BEFORE they did all the tests. Don’t all the reporters beg them for information right away? Because with Wang, I remember after they did all the tests, they blatantly said he probably wouldn’t pitch again this season, or at least not until October.
BS. Beat writers aren’t “skeptical”. They’re conspiracy theorists. The front offices, managers and doctors are lying to them to keep them from getting the inside scoops that they feel they deserve, that is their right to know.
dfox –
excellent points, all. but, if we could SEE the severity of those injuries, why would the yankees front office try to downplay them? doesn’t that further damage their credibility?
GB7,
not sure i agree. but that’s certainly one way to look at it.
i love that there are people here belittling beat writers for pumping the organization for information when 1) it’s the beat writers job to get and print news items and 2) there have been numerous occasions when pete has been lambasted on this blog for not getting a story quick enough. the hypocrisy is mind-boggling.
“The front offices, managers and doctors are lying to them to keep them from getting the inside scoops that they feel they deserve, that is their right to know.”
Actually, I think that’s a really good assessment. It seemed like with this Joba injury most reporters were trying to come up with bad scenarios just at the shot they could be correct and look like they had the scoop first. I think it was the NY Post that had in a BRIGHT red box on their home page just trying to play up everything that happened, like him going to Dr. Andrews, that was the end, he had to be done after that visit! They look stupid now.
the ny post isn’t exactly known for reporting the facts. lumping the other beat writers in with those guys is kind of unfair, in my opinion.
“but, if we could SEE the severity of those injuries, why would the yankees front office try to downplay them? doesn’t that further damage their credibility?”
See, I think it gets twisted to seem that way. I don’t think they were ever really downplayed. A lot of the beat writers consider not having all of the information yet “downplaying” an injury. I’m just going off memory, but I believe that when Wang got injured, the only time they ever said it was minor was in Girardi’s conference RIGHT after the game. I think when they wonder why the Yankees don’t come running to spill injury information to them anymore, just look at the Wang thing. They grossly misinformed the public that it wasn’t anything terrible, but quickly after when they did the tests, they got it right.
And that applies to the Joba thing now. They didn’t release information for 2 days because they wanted to get it right… They could have said 2 days ago it looks very minor, he’ll take a week off, start throwing again, and be back soon, but everyone would be down on them if for some reason he went to Dr. Andrews and he decided Joba needed surgery.
Incognito,
You don’t have to pitch everyday for it to be considered “repeated” or repetitive. No one pitches every single day anyway. Whether it’s being a reliever pitching a few days per week or a starter every five days, pitching is a repetitive motion.
dfox –
i can see looking at it that way, for sure. on a couple of levels, that makes sense, and you’re making excellent points.
i certainly don’t think the beat writers are “conspiracy theorists” and, given the nature of their profession – especially in a market like new york – it seems pretty understandable to me that these guys are doing everything they can to break a story and getting irked when it seems like the organization and girardi aren’t necessarily being forthright.
however, your explanation makes the most sense of any i’ve read with that viewpoint today. it’s certainly a far cry from “yankees – 1, lohud – 0.”
I’m as hopeful that we’ll get Joba back healthy and pitching big innings for us again this season as the next guy (depending on who that next guy is, I guess), HOWEVER, until we get word that he’s on an actual schedule that involves throwing the ball hard towards a guy wearing a glove… well, it’s hard to take any of these scenarios that employ the phrase ‘late August or early September’ very seriously.
Here’s what we can be reasonably sure of:
a) they will be cautious with Joba and not deliberately do anything that will put next season in jeopardy just to help this season. That is, they won’t gamble AT ALL with Joba to “go for it” this year.
b) IF it really is just what we’ve been told it is and he responds well to the rest and treatment and begins to pitch with no impediments, then it’s not out of the question that Joba will pitch again this year. All things being equal, they’d rather get him more innings, right? Not to mention help the club.
But it would not shock me if there’s more to it than we’ve been told and/or the brain trust hunkers down and decides that it’s just not worth the risk to let him pitch again this year. Nor would it shock me if he’s back on the mound in 3 weeks. Aside from secret info passed over a backyard fence in Connecticut from Steve Philips to someone’s uncle, I really have no basis to even speculate.
If Brian Cashman knows or thinks he knows at this moment that Joba won’t pitch again this year, I don’t see how it’s in the team’s interest to divulge that info right now. It’s not Pete’s or anyone covering the team’s job to report just the info that’s in the Yanks’ best interests to reveal. So there’s a natural conflict there. It’s not a big deal. So even you who are breathing a sigh of relief at tonight’s news, would it really shock you if we’re told about a ’setback’ in 2 weeks and then find out that Joba’s being shut down? I don’t think so.
well put, nick. i’ll let that be my last word on the topic until there’s any more news to respond to.
What’s so difficult about getting these “conspiracy theorists” to understand that if they are trying to make deals (waiver or otherwise), that any premature release of sensitive information will automatically double the cost of that replacement. That isn’t their problem. Their problem to to try and outscoop the competition. In lieu of any real information, wild azs theories and BS guesses will do just fine. After that…just lie. If you lie and it’s outlandish or sensationalized…all the better.
“If Brian Cashman knows or thinks he knows at this moment that Joba won’t pitch again this year, I don’t see how it’s in the team’s interest to divulge that info right now.”
I think you put it really well, but you lost me there. If they knew they were shutting him down for the season, it would be to their advantage to say it now. Ian Kennedy is coming up to pitch. Do you think it serves him well to know that they want Joba to be back in a few weeks, and if Kennedy does not pitch well, Joba’s going to jump right in to his spot? To me, that’s a detriment to Ian Kennedy. The only reason you would allow Ian Kennedy to believe Joba is coming back is if Joba was really coming back. Let’s be honest, the last thing Ian Kennedy needs after they said he was too timid on the mound is the thought of Joba Chamberlain right on his back standing by to relieve him of his rescue duties. And the way I look at it, if they weren’t 100% sure that the injury was nothing to be worried about, they wouldn’t have any interest in him coming back. Since that’s not the case, I really do believe you have to take the Yankees word for it that he will be back fairly shortly.
Green Beret:
I’m just curious, how would you have me to do my job? Just blindly believe everything that the team says?
Meanwhile, do you think other teams are that stupid? They all saw Joba come out of the game and say “something popped” in his shoulder. Do you think they just blindly believe what the Yankees put on a press release? Oh sure, we’ll give you Jarrod Washburn for a bag of balls. It’s not like you really need him.
My job is to report the news, not to copy press releases. When I report the news, I speak to players, agents, executives, doctors, experts in the field, other players I know who have had similar injuries, etc. I try and get the best possible information. Not because I deserve it. But because YOU do.
Why is that so hard for people to grasp? I like Joba and I hope he does well. Professionally I benefit from covering a good team and good players. But if I’m told “Player X is going to be out a while” I have to report that.
I reported that Wang was seriously injured in June when the Yankees said he wasn’t. He was. I reported that Hughes was seriously injured last year when the Yankees said he would be out 2-4 weeks. He was out 3 months. The list goes on and on.
Did you see what David Altchek said about Posada earlier this week? This direct quote from the Post:
Altchek said he advised Posada in April, when the catcher first suffered discomfort, to have surgery.
“My intent was that it was a significant injury and I mentioned that he shouldn’t try,” Altchek said.
Do you know what the Yankees said at the time? That Posada was “improving every day” and would be fine after he came off the DL. “There’s not going to be a problem,” Girardi said.
The entire time they said that stuff, he had a torn labrum.
I’m sorry these things happened. But I can’t just write, “Well, the Yankees said this. Go Yankees!” like you want.
In my opinion, the Yankees do firmly believe that Joba will be back this season. That is their opinion at this particular moment.
To me, it comes down to this: Do the Yankees really gain anything by saying that Joba will be back at some point, when in reality he won’t be? I really don’t think so; not at this juncture, at least. It’s not like Jake Peavy is going to make it through waivers and fall into their laps. We are talking about the usual suspects we were hearing about before the trade deadline; the Jarrod Washburn types. There really isn’t any leverage to be gained or lost when you are talking about acquiring mediocre pitching.
—
I truly do think that the Yankees feel he will be back this year; that can change a week from now, or whenever he starts his throwing program. One twinge, and they will likely shut him down. But at this moment, I think they truly do feel that with some rest, he’ll be back before 2008 is done.
Per espn.com Freddie Garcia hopes to make a decision soon. Looks like he wants to go to a contender for the remainder of ‘08 in the hopes of hitting the market in the off-season.
The Yankees were among the many teams scouting his workout.
I know beggars can’t be choosers, but yeesh. He was less than overwhelming (understandably) sitting at 85-86. We got to have better options than that, no?
Please be good, Ian, and please hurry up, Phil.
“When I report the news, I speak to players, agents, executives, doctors, experts in the field, other players I know who have had similar injuries, etc. I try and get the best possible information. Not because I deserve it. But because YOU do.”
The only thing I don’t understand is a few days ago you were talking about how it’s a bad thing he’s going to see James Andrews, most likely the news is going to be bad, and today, we get the news, and it most certainly is not bad. So Andrews rendered his opinion, and now it seems like you don’t really buy it… So before he rendered it he was an expert, and now that he gave a diagnosis that benefits the Yankees, there’s probably an error. That’s not really fair.
DFox:
In fact, I reported what Will Carroll said, that Andrews is not a cutter and takes conservative, rehab-based routes. I reported that he wouldn’t be going to Andrews unless the MRI showed something, which it did.
Meanwhile, you’re assuming what Dr. Andrews said and what the Yankees said are the same thing. Dr. Andrews does not directly report his findings to reporters, he leaves it to the teams to dispense the news.
DFox:
Ian and Joba are best friends. Do you think maybe they talk? The players know the truth about their injuries, they’re there when the doctor says what they have. C’mon now.
For starters, PA, I wouldn’t be labeling any sources of information, such as players, GMs or managers as liars. As far as wanting you or anybody else carrying the Yankee banner, I don’t care whether you do or not. It’s the idea that you don’t like what they tell you, so, you use forum like this to call them a liar instead of telling them face to face.I’ve had to put up with media, journalists and the like, telling half truths, fabricated stories and outright lies to print a story. I’ve seen it done since the days of Vietnam, and, I watched it happen in Iraq.You ask how you should do your story? Try telling the truth. You don’t know, because the information isn’t being released. My right to know or your right to know doesn’t outweigh the rights of the individual or organization to not have it released.As far as whether other teams think there’s more to it than is being told, they don’t know. There are doubts and that makes a difference. as you can probably tell, I have little to no use for lawyers, politicians and media. Basically, those professions are on the lowest rung of the evolutionary ladder. Not all as people…just the professions. Sadly, in time, those in the profession become the same thing. Sorry…just my opinion.
“In fact, I reported what Will Carroll said, that Andrews is not a cutter and takes conservative, rehab-based routes. I reported that he wouldn’t be going to Andrews unless the MRI showed something, which it did.”
OK, but the bottom line is he is supposed to be a trusted expert, so I really think you have to have some faith in what he says.
“Meanwhile, you’re assuming what Dr. Andrews said and what the Yankees said are the same thing. Dr. Andrews does not directly report his findings to reporters, he leaves it to the teams to dispense the news.”
I’m assuming it because I doubt it would be legal for the Yankees to slap Dr. Andrews name on any diagnosis they want to. And I mean come on, if Andrews didn’t clearly state that he wasn’t worried, it would be pretty irresponsible to have him start throwing in about a week.
“Ian and Joba are best friends. Do you think maybe they talk? The players know the truth about their injuries, they’re there when the doctor says what they have. C’mon now.”
That’s not my point. I’m talking about if the injury the Yankees say Joba has is in fact the injury he does have, and they were planning to shut him down for the season, just to be cautious, then it would be in Ian Kennedy’s benefit to know right now that they had no interest in bringing Joba back this season. Let’s be honest, if in fact they have no intentions of bringing him back this season, it’s pretty self-destructive of them to make Ian Kennedy think that Joba’s taking a few weeks off and will BRB. What I’m saying is it would take a ton of pressure and doubt away from Ian Kennedy if he knew he wasn’t just a placeholder until Joba gets back.
I only sent that, PA, because you asked questions that I answered and to my surprise, I was blocked out. I didn’t attack anyone..only questioning the reasons and doubting the validity of the profession.
I enjoy this board, but, I have definite views on privacy and honesty. I expressed those views.
DFox, Kennedy knows he’s the third trey. He also knows that he’s going to get about 5-6 starts to resurrect his season.
“DFox, Kennedy knows he’s the third trey. He also knows that he’s going to get about 5-6 starts to resurrect his season.”
How is that? They were reluctant to even think about bringing him up, but when Joba went down, they pretty much had to. Who says he’s here for 5-6 starts? Like I said before, right now he has one role and one role only, according to the Yankees: he’s Joba Chamberlain’s place holder. He’s filling in for Joba while Joba is on the DL. Nothing more than that is guaranteed for him, and if he doesn’t pitch well, I doubt he gets more chances this season. Again, I didn’t define that role, the Yankees did…
If Kennedy has 6 more starts as bad as his first 6 starts, he won’t get any more for a while. If he pitches like he did last September, he’ll be around for a good, long while. If he does well, he’ll either be part of the ‘09 rotation or he’ll be dealt. Whichever it is, it’s to his benefit. Kennedy has pressure on him, either way…just like last September….no more…no less.
“Kennedy has pressure on him, either way…just like last September….no more…no less.”
I agree with everything you said except this… That doesn’t really make sense to me because he obviously knows he’s on a much shorter leash this season if there’s a chance of Joba coming back than if there isn’t… If they didn’t tell him Joba was coming back, he would pretty much have that spot for the rest of the season. I could be wrong, but you think it would be better for him to know he had a spot secured for the rest of the season (which isn’t much) instead of until Joba is ready to go.
The team may not tell the vultures….err…media everything, but, you can bet the farm that the players know what’s going on. Kennedy knows that the end of the season and 2009 is in his control. If he comes out as the 2008 version, then, even if Hughes and Chamberlain return this season, they’ll all start and Ponson will sit.
If I worked for the Yankees I would downplay the injuries too. The media has a lot of influence on the fans and players. The Yankees don’t want the media to constantly ask their players how they plan to make it to the playoffs this year without Joba, Wang, Posada, etc..
Some of you folks are hopelessly naive.
Teams lie about injuries. They do. Doesn’t make them bad people but, its how many of them roll these days in professional sports.
Its worse in college sports. They hide behind the HIPPA laws when discussing injuries to their players. At the professional level these days, teams just eliminate the excuse and lie instead.
Geez, you have been given NUMEROUS examples in this thread and others at how the Yankees have been caught lying in these scenarios numerous times during this season.
One of the most respected guys on the team (Moose) even offered the caveat of, “if that he what he REALLY has” before talking about Joba. Why do you think he did that?
Do you not think he hasn’t had the experience of seeing teams be less than candid when discussing injuries?
Reject any of us who question the Yankees when it comes to truthfulness about injuries. You now want to question and 18 year, borderline Hall of Fame player who offers the same caveat many of us do when discussing Joba’s injury?
I get the fact some of you are such big fans that you can’t concieve how the Yankees would do such a thing. Or, you live in a fantasy world and believe the beat writers have no right to this information and they should just be thankful they have the “privilege” to be gracing Yankee Stadium on game days. Unfortunately, that’s not how it works in the real world.
The writers are an extension of the fan base. They deliver the news to the fans. Its how fans stay informed. The team knows this and that’s what makes the sports world go’round.
If you have such disregard for the beat writers job, why visit here or other blogs for information? Why not just go to yankees.com and wait for press releases from the Yankees and receive information from the team that way? You can convince yourself its all you are entitled to, the information (at least in your mind) would be 100% accurate, and you won’t ever have to question a thing.
You don’t do that because you want information about this team and its players. Every day. Sometimes, more than once a day. So, you do you suppose you get it? You get it from guys like Pete, who bust their ass to develop sources to give you accurate information. They deliver that information to you on a fairly frequent basis and that’s why many of you are able to learn about the team.
Doesn’t mean they are always correct. Some of you on this blog are what I call “selective scorekeepers”. You have no problems calling Pete and others on the carpet when they are wrong. Yet, you don’t apply the same scorekeeping principles with the Yankees.
Pete, Kepner or any of us who question the Yankees honesty about these matters are not looking to draw and quarter the Yankees. We are just telling you that in professional sports, team lie about injuries.
Its not always for strategic reasons either. Its because they want to control the flow of information that is released. Its like one big game. Sometimes, in their desire to control information, they create bigger problems for themselves. It happens in politics and it happens in sports.
When you see Brian Bruney and Chien Ming Wang struggle to walk, then are told there is “no structural damage” with either one of them, and find out differently later, you tend to be skeptical when being told of the condition of the franchise player.
Some of you may believe that makes one a “bad fan”. It doesn’t. It just makes for a skeptical one.
The point Pete and others are trying to make is, “Just because the Yankees say its so, doesn’t make it the truth”.
If some, no matter how much evidence is shown, disagree with that statement, fine. But, don’t keep your head in the sand and believe you are given the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth by the Yankees when it comes to injuries.
Let’s not make the beat guys out to be bad guys here. They aren’t. They aren’t looking to undermine the Yankees. They just don’t want to be lied to.
In that regard, they are no different than anybody else who goes to work on a daily basis. They just want folks to be honest with them.
Someone may have already mentioned this, and maybe I’m trying to be a little TOO optimistic, but Joba’s situation sounds MUCH BETTER than Jorge’s.
Jorge was saying the whole time he couldn’t get anything on his throws, that he had no strength in his arm. Joba was saying that his arm strength and velocity were fine. Trainers said that his strength tests were good that night as well.
Again, I may still be trying to find the silver lining in a cloud that has loomed over the team the entire season. But, that’s just me…
Once again, Peter, you’re purely speculating. Where is your journalistic integrity? Where is your HUMAN integrity?
Wang and Hughes’ injuries weren’t thought to be serious BEFORE he went to the doctor. Posada’s injury status was known but they thought he would be able to play through it. Bruney is BACK so they were right about that.
You have to calm down with your negativity and skepticism. If you’re going to do your job as a journalist you should try to keep some objectivity and that includes accepting what you are told by the people you are getting the story from. You haven’t spoken to James Andrews or Stuart Herschon so all you are going off of is speculation and hearsay. Give it a rest already.
I look at the bb season as a war. I don’t see benefeit in telling the enemy ahead of time the condition of your warriors. That can only hurt. Disinformation is the only option you have. Go yanks.
C’mon already. Give him some of Andy’s HGH and get on with it.
SJ44, thanks for the clarification, captain obvious. We get it, teams can lie about injuries.
But I’m sorry to break the bad news to you, but in this case, there is ZERO evidence to argue that the Yankees aren’t telling the truth. When there’s no evidence that a team is not telling the truth, and people make it seem like they are probably lying, that’s a borderline conspiracy theory.
You keep bringing up Wang. Stop, it’s a horrid example. The guy fell into Robinson Cano’s arms before being carried off the field and said after the game that he was in horrible pain. Did the Yankees really trick you on that one by saying they had to see what it was and they hoped he’d be back before the season ended? You weren’t worried at all when he was jumping around like he had just broken his foot?
Again, if they showed us some actual evidence that could help prove the Yankees weren’t telling the truth, then maybe we’d buy it, but just basing it on other completely separate injuries is naive, if you want to talk about being naive.
When a player continues playing and sees no drop in velocity, isn’t worried himself, says he thinks it’s only a minor injury, and then Dr. Andrews says it’s a minor injury, I’m sure along with the Yankee doctor, I’m going to tend to believe all those people that it’s a minor injury. Again, that’s actual evidence compared to your evidence which is: “teams like and oh yeah, look at Wang”.
* lie