Iceberg? Is that an iceberg?
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 15, 2008 
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The Yankees are having a lot of dirt piled on them the last few days, and justifiably so.
But there are 41 games left, not 14. Mark my words, at some point in the next six weeks they will get within a few games of the wild card and everybody will have hope. This team is inconsistent; they’re not terrible.
The next nine games are against Kansas City, Toronto and Baltimore. If the Yankees can roll a 7-2 or even a 6-3, those games against Boston Aug. 26-28 will have some meaning.
Maybe Joba comes back. Maybe Phil Hughes will be Phil Hughes. Maybe Moose and Pettitte stay solid. Maybe Giambi and Abreu go on a salary drive. Maybe A-Rod stops popping up with men on base. There’s still a chance.
Now that assumes they don’t quit on Joe Girardi. The Yankees have a lot of kids, soon-to-be-free agents and veterans and at some point they’ll get tired of the team meetings, optimistic patter and lineup changes.
Sitting Johnny Damon the other day and playing Justin Christian because of his 23 at-bats against lefties raised a lot of eyebrows.
Girardi was tightly wound when the season started. What’s he going to be like now?
You have every reason not to believe. But there are still a few reasons to hang in.
I still believe! Why? I don’t know..
Damn this team! I know they are gonna break my heart.
**and that was my bipolar moment of the day.
So if we can play well against three of the worst teams in the Majors, we might have a chance at the playoffs? Doubtful.
We’ve been playing poorly even against those teams this year.. and even if we do manage to make it to the playoffs, we haven’t been playing consistently enough against playoff-caliber teams to make it past the first round. Twins, Angels, Red Sox, etc…
To be honest, I would rather not make the playoffs this year than make them, and leave with another embarrassing first round exit.
Iceberg, Goldberg, what’s the difference?
*****************************************************
The AL East is going to be a dog fight, then, for the forseeable future, if that’s the case.
Hank’s deluding himself if he thinks the Yankees are going to win the AL East next year without vast improvements– vast improvements I can’t fathom how they’re going to realize.
Where the heck are they going to get their offense from the next few years if A-Jax, Montero, and Laird are a few years away, and they plan to let Abreu and Giambi leave?
If they let Abreu sign elsewhere, they’re going to need a 3 hitter. No, Nady, with his .OBA, is not a 3-hitter.
And then too, even if they re-sign Giambi for less money, Giambi, really, isn’t a 5 hitter anymore either.
Who knows what to expect from a healed Posada? And with Matsui’s chronically arthritic knees, I have serious questions whether he’ll ever be the same hitter again.
Is the plan to sign CC this off-season and Holliday, next off-season?
The Red Sox have a core of four hitter who produce, or will produce, above the league-average, all under 30 (two of whom already are all-stars, the other two could be): Youklis, Pedroia, Ellsbury, and Lowrie.
The Yankees have Cano. Uh-Oh.
pete, any comment on the draft signings? especially the news cole is going to school?
thanks for the pep talk Pete, but I don’t see the point in making the playoffs, why? to be embarassed again in the first round? OR, maybe…..they all get a spark and won’t let Yankee Stadium close that way, just maybe….
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
HHEELLLOOO EVERYBODYYYYYYYYY,
Oh sorry he isn’t in with WFAN anymore.
Yeah they still have a chance but hill has become a mountain.
Honestly, I’d rather they don’t make the playoffs than have them go out first round. I just don’t see them all of a sudden being able to fix their problems. They didn’t fix them in Apr thru July. Why should we believe they can do it now?
Gerrit Cole, slap that guy silly.
gerrit cole has to be the dumbest person ever lol
i really don’t understand the logic in hoping they don’t make the playoffs. honestly, i’m kind of expecting they won’t, but to hope they won’t doesn’t accomplish anything.
The Yankees know what the AL East is going to be like in the next few years.
This past off-season, Cashman told everybody in the organization Tampa would be in the race this year. Some laughed at him. They aren’t laughing now.
The Yankees have a lot coming off the books after this season. Which allows for a lot of options.
First time in years really they can re-make the style of play of this team. Make no mistake, it needs to be remade.
They are an Atari in an Apple world with the way they go about playing offensive baseball in the Post-Greenie Era.
They can trade some young pitching for a position player or two.
If they sign CC and bring back Moose and Andy. If they go that route, one could argue a rotation of Wang, CC, Andy, Moose and Joba is the best in the league. Add to that 2-3 guys in AAA ready to go if there are injuries, Melancon added to an already good bullpen, and that would be a solid pitching staff.
You build a team from the pitching staff out. If the pitching is solid, productive and stays healthy, you will always be in the race.
As bad as this offense has been this year (and its been bad), had Hughes panned out, Wang stayed healthy, and Chamberlain not gone down, they would be, at worst, within 5 games of the division and 2-3 games of the WC.
Aside from CC, the big off-season question is, what to do with Cano?
Yes, he’s their only position player (well, Nady is only 29 and will most likely be the RF next year) under 30.
But, if you stink it up (see Melky Cabrera) being under 30 really doesn’t mean a whole helluva lot.
Can they get him to focus and play the way he is capable of playing? The answer to that question is something the Yankees can’t be wrong on this off-season.
If they can fix him, keep him. If they can’t, he has to go and they have to get real substance in return. Not unknowns, might be’s, could be’s. Real substance.
A lot of people in the game still think Cano can be a special player. This year hasn’t hurt his trade value, if that’s the way the Yankees decide to go.
If he has another year like this one? Then he has no trade value and you are stuck with a negative asset.
Honestly, I don’t know what the right decision is on this one.
With CC, its easy. You sign him and you don’t whine about how much its going to cost. Just get it done.
With Cano? I just don’t know.
He’s played like a dog for most of this season. But, he has the kind of talent that, if unearthed, could solve a lot of their problems.
That one is going to be a tough call for the Yankees.
Ok So Hughes comes back big deal, Pavano Please..If Hughes comes back and flops they will tank for sure.
“gerrit cole has to be the dumbest person ever lol”
well, if he goes to college, maybe he can get rid of that “dumbest person ever” title… if college actually makes you smarter.
Gotta be frustrating for Joey G. but if at least the team looked a bit more alive and didn’t make stupid fielding and running errors, there’d be reasons to be positive.
Why would they wake up now and play better from this point forward? Professionalism? You’d hope so…
I’ll keep listening and watching, but I’m not optimistic. That’s the truth.
SJ:
I’m not so sure they can get CC.
SJ:
If they don’t land CC, what would option B, be. Sign 4 FA like Harden and such.
On a sidenote, Melky Cabrera is the fifth-worst offensive player in the AL.
tinyurl (dot) com (slash) 5vepgr
is there really serious talk about signing CC?
Well when George King says the season is dead, you have to believe him. Right?
SJ,
and are we def not bringing back Abreu and the Big G? I think they cut ‘em loose
i know i’ve said it before, but i hope they keep Abreu somehow…
SJ: what’s the weather like tomorrow?
sheesh.
To me it’s like a heavy weight fight, the puncher is getting out boxed for 8 round’s in a 12 round bout, but he always has puncher’s shot, but the Yanks are on the rope’s.
I will never understand the media’s fascination with burying the Yankees early. Actually, I do understand it. By burying the Yankees, their inevitable comeback makes for a better story — a “stirring, miraculous comeback.”
The Yankees have $200mm of talent and a lot of games left against bad teams, the Sox, and the Rays. If they are this far out on Sept. 15, go ahead and bury them. Until then, anything is possible.
I`m not in the clubhouse or dugout but heres my thought. Girardi is a big part of this. It reminds me when Billy Martin got fired, the team was unachieving, and they brought in a “let the guys play” type manager Bob Lemon, and the team played and won.
Now, I`m not saying they need a laid back guy, but Girardi needs to stop managing like he has the 1963 Astros/Colt 45`s.
The lineup changes, days off, moves are killing them too. Write the nine best hitters into the same lineup and let it work, if they don
this team just isn’t very good.
and when you have two guys on the dl for most of the season that get you 180 RBI’s, and three SP’s on the DL (wang, joba, hughes) – its even worse.
Actually, I just think Cano’s having a bad season and that Girardi, unlike Torre-Bowa, is not doing much to help him.
I don’t think it was a complete coincidence that Robbie’s Dad worked with him over the All-Star break and he flourished in that 8 game winning streak the Yankees underwent right after the break.
That doesn’t mean Girardi can’t; he just hasn’t figured out how just yet.
I still have faith in Cano and would be very disappointed if the Yankees gave up on him so soon.
I agree SJ44, success in baseball begins and ends with pitching. The Yankees dynasty was founded on throwing very good, if not necessarily great, starters at you every fourth day.
That being said, the Blue Jays, to my mind, with a healthy McGowan, had the best starting five in the AL. And yet they stunk because no one could hit. Injuries hampered both Wells and Rios and they were both underperforming.
I worry that the Yankees, without some astute maneuvering to acquire two or more bats, could turn into a slightly more productive version of the Jays.
The Rays and Sux have both deep pitching staffs AND young productive bats.
Upton, Crawford, Longoria, Pena (Baldelli?)
Youklis, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lowrie
BTW, I’m predicting this right now. The Rays will go on another very long losing streak before the season ends. The Red Sox will surpass them for the division. The question is whether they fall far enough for another team to pass them in the wild-card.
also, they have one of the worse schedules remaining.
A tough road for the Yankees but not an impossible one.
Someone wne t back to 1969 for hope but how about last year. The Mets had a 7 game lead with 17 to play and a majority of sub .500 teams on the schedule and couldn’t get it done.
Yanks need to walk the fine line of playing up to their maximum abilities without trying to do to much in order to make it a contest.
Jeter’s Future Wife, yep. The issue with bringing Abreu back, in my mind, is that he really should be a dh at this point, and matsui and posada might be in that boat next year too. I wouldn’t mind signing him to give us some injury protection with Matsui and in the hope Posada can catch, but it definitely would not make sense to bring him back at a high cost/long committment deal. 2-3 years at $8-10m might make sense. I’ll say this, I’d much rather bring him back than Giambi or than signing Manny
make it then thats all you can do. If he wants to be a tough guy, let Girardi be a tough guy with Cano. I heard a dopey conversation yesterday on ESPN radio where Joel Scherman (sorry about spelling) lay it at the feet of Jeter for not being a good or strong enough captain. Problem is Joel…. The TEAM doesnt play for Jeter, they play for the manager Girardi. So any leadership issues or questions go to the guy in charge. Its Girardis job to get the team to PLAY for him. Sofar many have underachieved, not fair, but it goes to the manager. Thats sports, thats business, thats life.
As far as Girardi being “tightly wound” is concerned, I could see some vets not liking that.
You know what I say to that? Too damn bad.
Let’s not go overboard with that stuff.
The Yankees are 4-13 in their last 17 post-season games under “laid back, get the most out of the players”, Joe Torre.
How’s that such a great thing? Its not like the Yankees weren’t favorites in every series they have lost the last 4 years. They were and they crapped out every year. In some cases (see the ’06 ALDS with the Tigers), they quit.
They haven’t won a post-season series since the ALDS in 2004.
Under “laid back, get the most out of your players” Joe Torre, they also participated in the biggest choke in the history of professional team sports.
Let that sink in for minute. How did being “laid back” help them in that series?
I think WAY too much is made out of the styles of each manager.
Was it a dumb move by Girardi not playing Damon the other night? Absolutely.
It was also dumb for Joe Torre to pitch his second best relief pitcher last year (Vizcaino) 13 times in the second half of the year in games in which the Yankees had leads of 4 or more runs.
‘Ya think that’s good bullpen management? ‘Ya think that didn’t contribute to Viz being shot for the playoffs.
Let’s face it, this is a flawed team. There are a lot of names on it but, its a flawed team.
Derek Jeter is hitting over 30 points under his career BA. Cano over 40. Arod and Giambi have been awful with RISP. Bobby Abreu is a disaster on the basepaths and defensively.
Posada and Matsui missing most of the season has also been a killer.
The pitching staff has been decimated by injuries.
Has Girardi made mistakes? Yes. He’s also done a helluva job being a first year manager in NY, with an old team of players in decline, racked by injury, and having to replace a legend.
It works both ways. Joe Torre wasn’t perfect, particularly in his last 4 years here, and neither is Joe Girardi.
The Yankees aren’t in the position they are in because Joe Girardi is the manager. Just as Joe Torre is not singularly responsible for every playoff win, and absolved of every playoff loss.
What WILL be on the manager is, if the players go into the tank the last 40 games of the season.
Play hard for 40 games and not make the playoffs? That’s life. Get over it, improve in the off-season, and come back stronger.
The Red Sox didn’t make the playoffs in 2006 and they didn’t blow everything up. They aggressively went out and made the team better. No reason the Yankees can’t do the same.
If this team just quits and mails in the last 40 games? That’s a problem and Girardi can and will get heat for that. Deservedly so, if that were to occur.
kill.schill(ing):
I agree with the offense, just not sure how to acquire them.
I also agree with your Tampa scenario, I watched theire game yesterday, Cliff Floyd scored 4 of there run’s…The A’s came close but really only had Frank Thomas provide timely (clutch hit’s). The Ray’s won’t win the division, the WC maybe we will see.
its ridiculous to talk of finessing cano to get him to play hard and play well. he has a 4 year, 29M deal. he’s a professional. he’s an athlete. and if he does not perform, he should be removed.
removed = moved. preferably for kemp
The burying of Robinson Cano on this blog is ridiculous. He’s had a poor season but he’s also had a lot of bad luck. The peripherals (BABIP, LD%) he possesses are actually in line with his career. The balls are just not falling in. You don’t give up on a guy like Cano after one poor year. Where’s the concern over Jeter and his atrocious DP tendencies, decreased SLG and OBP?
There’s no way they don’t throw a boat load of cash at Sabathia and bring back one of Mussina or Pettitte (no room for both). I’d rather it be Mussina. Pettitte looks cooked.
It would be comforting to all Yankee fans if the Steinbrenners and Cashman were to issue a statement on the eve of the team being mathematically elimined saying that they are disappointed but acutely aware of what all the problems are and committed to solving them without fail.
They certainly can’t name any names until it’s nearer November when players file for free agency so not to get nailed for tampering but they can offer some clues to make the offseason interesting for fans.
It can be well imagined how active this board will be when the announcement is made that Giambi’s 2009 option will not be picked up and his $5M buyout was excercised.
That by itself will set the tone of things to come.
Get rid of Abreu, and put Nady in RF. Put Damon in LF. Sign a young, producing CF (Carl Crawford would ber perfect), and put Melky on the bench as the 4th OF.
Get rid of Giambi, put Posada at 1B. Keep Matsui as the DH.
I think signing a CF like Crawford and at least 2 SP’s is crucial this off season.
* eliminated*
Brandon, I like your idea of Lastings Milledge, he’s young, athletic and has a lot of potential. I’m not sure if it would be a good idea to bring him back to NY though. Also, it would take a lot more than Kennedy to get Milledge.
Patrick I wanted to answer your question here to get more attention to this. I know it would be weird for some people I mean Lastings has been given a horrible rap in NY, but I can’t stop thinking he is a 5 tool player on the rise and I think Ian Kennedy plus maybe a Melky Cabrera or Eric Duncan can land Milledge in pinstripes since his stock is low.
“Get rid of Giambi, put Posada at 1B. Keep Matsui as the DH.”
So we’re putting Posada at 1B against his will as he’s made it very clear that he doesn’t want to play first.
Anyone else think the Daily News was actually RIGHT about Pettitte being injured?
My theory– Andy IS hurting, and he SHOULD be rested. However, he’s finally decided to hang up the cleats at the end of the season. There’s no “next season” to save his arm for.
I think it’s a plausible theory, no?
Hey if rocky can beat apollo and clubba lang, the yanks just might be able to do something. Do I have faith? Absolutely. Why? Why not? Anybody who says the yanks wont make the playoffs now is just a scrooge and should start watching football. In the words of George Michael, ya gotta have faith.
bill:
1. crawford isn’t a FA
2. he’s not a CF.
Crawford has an option, he’s not a sure-thing free agent, and I don’t think there have been a ton of rumblings that Tampa won’t pick up his option.
Carl Crawford is a nice thought but he’s under the Rays control through 2010. His option of 2009 has been picked up already.
“signing a CF like Crawford”
how? he’s not a FA. brings up a good question though… would you pursue Baldelli?
Random roster question: how can Chris Britton be recalled and sent down umpteen times this season?
Isn’t there a limit on this? What does it mean when a player is “out of options” and can not be sent down w/out designating him for assignment?
Somewhere, Kenny Clay and Jim Beattie are watching Britton’s season of being a transient w/ great familiarity.
Off topic, but Id like some feedback. Pete, maybe you can shed some light on this as you probably know the man.
Is there something wrong with Bill Madden of the Daily News? Is he a drunk, or a special needs person? I am not joking. I read his article today and he inplies that the mets traded kevin slowey to the twins in the johan deal? Huh? But also, when I see him on TV on SNY, he seems like there is something wrong with him. Basically, what Im asking is this…Is Bill Madden a drunk, mentally ill or what? And how does he have a job?
“Patrick I wanted to answer your question here to get more attention to this. I know it would be weird for some people I mean Lastings has been given a horrible rap in NY, but I can’t stop thinking he is a 5 tool player on the rise and I think Ian Kennedy plus maybe a Melky Cabrera or Eric Duncan can land Milledge in pinstripes since his stock is low.”
i dont think itd be a bad idea to bring him in as a tryout for CF. he’d certainly be motivated to prove the mets wrong across town, thats for sure.
i wouldnt give up much to get him, though.
The burying of Robinson Cano on this blog is ridiculous.
When I look at Cano he to me when on is the best young hitter in the game, but he wastes his ability, if he would play hard and give a damn he from now to the next 5 yrs. could be the best hitter in the ML and yes that’s even putting Pujols, Arod , Manny …that’s how much talent and god given ability Robi has. But when you see him not drawing walks, swinging at the first pitch, swinging at a pitch he can’t drive for a basehit he’s wasting his talent away, for a 26 yr. old Dominican to do that he should be ashamed of himself. He is an example of light to latin america, right now what concerns me is that Robi has a sad work ethic and plays like he could care less.
Robi has a tough decision to make because 5 yrs. can pass you by like that, what does he want to be remembered as a dangerous hitter in MLB or a clown on the field who had potential and let it pass him by. It’s his decision but the Yankees might make thiers quicker than Robi makes his.
SOrry, didn’t know they picked up his option. Also, he was a CF, so no big deal there.
I do not care if Jorge does not want to play 1B if the Yanks think it is in there best interest to have him play 1b. Suck it up you are making $13 mill a yr….
Pettitte pitched well in his last game, why the heck would they let a pitcher pitch if he was going to get hurt? Yea Pettitte is old and near the end of his career but please don’t be that cynical…
Abreu is bye bye.. They will add to there roster to help improve the offense.. WHy keep doing the same dinosour thing year in and year out.
GET MORE ATHLETIC…
i dont think itd be a bad idea to bring him in as a tryout for CF. he’d certainly be motivated to prove the mets wrong across town, thats for sure.
i wouldnt give up much to get him, though.
I don’t think you would have to give up much for Milledge but they need to make the move before his stock picks up. A talent like him eventually is going to break through.
Whaddya think of this?
Yankees may return Joba to bullpen
Posted: Friday August 15, 2008 05:14AM ET
Joba Chamberlain begins a throwing program today under the supervision of the Yankees’ training and coaching staffs at Yankee Stadium. The two biggest questions surrounding the pitching face of the troubled franchise are: 1) Will the Yankees’ place in the standings determine if Chamberlain returns? and 2) If he does come back, will he go back into the bullpen? The Yankees have discussed returning Chamberlain to the bullpen to reduce the stress on the right shoulder that was invaded by rotator cuff tendinitis and landed him on the disabled list Aug. 5.
even in a positive post, pete’s gotta take some pot-shots at girardi.
Lastings Milledge?? geez we already have Cano and Melky as under achieving immature players
Well, it is quite obvious Pete does not like Girardi. That is a shame when someone cannot be more professional. Sorry Pete that he lies to you about injuries, but get over it. He is managing a team that is tough to manage, and decimated by injuries – give the guy a break.
“I don’t think you would have to give up much for Milledge but they need to make the move before his stock picks up. A talent like him eventually is going to break through.”
yeah. idk, i watched him with the mets, and he looked lost. of course, he was young, and prob a little rushed, but he couldnt hit a breaking ball to save his life.
i havent watched him much since going to Washington, but it looks like his numbers are improving a bit.
i would think itd be hard to get Washington to sell him now, especially because he’s young, cheap, developing, and there is new management/GM coming after the season, if i remember correctly.
if you are transfered between AAA and the big club once in the year or 10 times it counts as 1 year of options…
someone answer this or correct me but don’t teams once they bring someone up have the abiltiy to do the up and down routine for 4 years, or something like that.
thanks.
Abreu’s gotta go. There is just something about him that says loser to me . His “Its depressing in here” from Pete’s article is not the type of talk they need. Yet he’s smiling everytime I see him. Not acceptable. Phillie knew what they were doing when they gave him up for a song. Him and everybody’s 1B talk buddy Giambi just don’t have the fight in them that championship caliber teams need. Somebody said earlier that it’s going to be a dogfight in the AL east for years to come and we don’t need guys with a cat show mentality.
cano was one of the best hitter sin baseball in over 110 games this year he has proven that is untrue.
Cano has a 300 OBP and a 262 avg, with 50 and change RBI’s his year has been atrocious.. Jeter has had a better year and Jeters year has been terrible…
Lastings Milledge?? geez we already have Cano and Melky as under achieving immature players
Lastings isn’t an underachiever he’s young he’s 5 tool, plays the game hard (something people don’t see) say what you want that kid takes a game hard, he plays hard. I’d definitely want him in LF or RF or CFand have JAckson progress in the minors as long as he needs. To think if that pans out you can put Milledge in LF and Jackson in CF or vice versa.
It tells me he probably doesn’t have “rotator cuff tendinitis”. If he does, its in addition to what’s really wrong with him. Which of course, the Yankees aren’t telling anybody.
Funny how Dan Giese and Joba have the “same” injury, isn’t it? What a coincidence.
My guess? He strained a biceps tendon and may not be able to build up to a starters workload, if he pitches at all, the rest of the year.
All those curveballs he was throwing in his last start could strain a biceps tendon.
Returning Joba to the pen would mess with the kids head. He is and always acted like an ace starter to just stick him back in the pen would seriously stunt his development as a front end guy. The Yanks need to do the right thing and shut him down. This team is killing off some dead weight after the season lets just wait for 09.
I still believe Girardi is a great baseball strategist, works incredibly hard and is committed to winning. But he does seem to try too hard and over-think at times. I know he means well, but sometimes he reminds me of Ryan in The Office who started all these new initiatives when he first got promoted to that big corporate job. People often do that when they try to overcompensate in new big jobs they aren’t quite prepared for.
Posada will not play 1st.
One of the hazards of funky stats “peripherals?” is that if you have enough of them you can tell any story you want.
Cano has not hit in bad luck, he’s been BAD. His casual approach to baseball is tolerable when he’s hitting .320 but appalling when he’s not. Maybe he cares, but it sure doesn’t look like it and that’s why folks here are fed up with him. the last month he might be the worst defensive player I have ever seen between the plays his blown and the ones he gives up on.
Unless Matsui is moved I see no role for Abreu in ’09. I don’t want to see him in the OF except occasionally and Matsui/Damon are pretty much relegared to sharing LF/DH unless one of them has a physical reanaissance.
A run this year is still possible, but I’m not counting on it…. I just hope the off season isn’t one of putting bandages on an open chest wound. There need to be significant changes on this team no matter how the next 40 games play out.
TurnTwo when he was w/ the MEts Minaya definitely rushed him..remember Billy Wagner started that “Know your place Rook” thing..out of everyone on that Mets team the hard grinders were La Duca and Milledge but for some reason the players didn’t like Milledge because they thought he was cocky, again a 20 yr. old playing at Shea trying to take it all in playing w/ confidence and they wanted him to be a choir boy, I’d still take a player that plays hard and is a bit cocky on my team any day.
“Posada will not play 1st.”
he will if they tell him to. he doesnt have a choice.
and if he cant throw anymore behind the plate, i see him coming to terms with it and moving on rather than insisting on being difficult and embarrassing himself.
I’ve only seen Cano have plate discipline in 2 at bat’s this year.
your really not a joe g fan are you
TurnTwo when he was w/ the MEts Minaya definitely rushed him..remember Billy Wagner started that “Know your place Rook” thing..out of everyone on that Mets team the hard grinders were La Duca and Milledge but for some reason the players didn’t like Milledge because they thought he was cocky, again a 20 yr. old playing at Shea trying to take it all in playing w/ confidence and they wanted him to be a choir boy, I’d still take a player that plays hard and is a bit cocky on my team any day.
(double post)
The only omission from SJ44′s excellent critique is Torre’s inaction during the Midge Swarm Game. Torre’s laid-back style directly contributed to the Yankees losing that game and the series. Girardi would have gotten ejected before he let Joba continue pitching in that situation.
I agree that Cano poses the biggest puzzle to the Yankees right now. You can’t overstate how good he was in 2006 and 2007 and how awful he’s been this year (OPS+ in each year: 126, 120, 84). His mental errors are just salt on the wound.
I say you have to keep him and pray he gets his act together. It’s not unreasonable to hope for several .300/.350/.500 seasons, with above-average defense, to come. Getting that from a 2B just entering his late twenties is tremendous. I think he’s too good not to bounce back.
I just really hope this team doesn’t tease with a mini winning streak this weekend. I don’t think I can handle monday mornings paper reading “Yanks red hot, sweep KC” because as we all know they cannot beat any real playoff contenders.
where’s my post ?
Where is this post ?
TurnTwo when he was w/ the Mets Minaya definitely rushed him..remember Billy Wagner started that “Know your place Rook” thing..out of everyone on that Mets team the hard grinders were La Duca and Milledge but for some reason the players didn’t like Milledge because they thought he was cocky, again a 20 yr. old playing at Shea trying to take it all in playing w/ confidence and they wanted him to be a choir boy, I’d still take a player that plays hard and is a bit cocky on my team any day.
Thank you 86, re: the stats.
Is he “unlucky” when he doesn’t play hard, dive for balls he can get to, loaf on the bases, etc? We’ve seen a helluva lot of that all season from him.
I don’t buy the “unlucky” nonsense. He’s been bad. VERY bad at times but, bad most of the year.
You know what’s “unlucky”? Getting your hand crushed on a 98 MPH fastball, when you were getting into a groove offensively, and messing up your entire year. That’s “unlucky”.
Charting batted balls hit into play and saying a guy is “unlucky” is nonsense.
How many of those balls put into play were pitches out of the strikezone? Or, in bad counts? Or, in situations where he tried to do too much at the plate instead of just doing the fundamentally correct thing?
If we don’t know the answers to the above questions, its impossible to say he’s hit in “bad luck” all season.
He’s just had a very bad season. Is he the sole reason the Yankees are where they are? No. But, make no mistake, he’s played big hand in it.
Nobody had his numbers at where they are right now coming into the season. This was supposed to be a breakout season for him. Instead, its been a disaster.
TurnTwo:
I think we spoke on this yesterday, his big value for the Yanks is at C. If he could platoon with Hideki and him at 1st, and DH…but were running out of room at DH, Damon, Hideki, Posada………If he would play 1st maybe but if he struggle’s fielding it could hamper his offense. Plus the shoulder?
“Is there something wrong with Bill Madden of the Daily News? Is he a drunk, or a special needs person? I am not joking. I read his article today and he inplies that the mets traded kevin slowey to the twins in the johan deal”
I read that too and was kind of scratching my head. Other than that I though the article was pretty fair. Accountability for this mess should start at the top.
Anyway Turn2 , Id take a guy like Milledge on my team because he plays hard everyday, I literally don’t see quit w/ that kid. I still think he is young and numb..numb because he hasn’t turned it completely on yet but when he does watch out. I’d like for Cashman took take a chance on him he’s the type of young player that has immense upside when he gets it.
the yankees drew, what, about 2 million or so in 1994, then started winning. last year they drew 4 million. that indicates to me that about half of all yankees fans are fair-weather fans (or arent old enough to have thier fandom tested).
maybe now that times are tough, these fair weather fans (like bk) will go away and leave our stadium and our team to the people who are real fans and stick with thier team through thick and thin.
as for those of you who were too young to have to deal with poor teams, sometime you will be tested, and many of you will go become mets fans or just stay away until the next time the yankees win.
personally, im a yankees fan through and through and i stick with my team at all times, even horace clark and dallas green.
if you’re giving up now, you are conceding to the RED SOX!!!
real yankees fans NEVER EVER concede to the red sox!
I’d like for Cashman to take a chance on him he’s the type of young player that has immense upside if he gets it.
(sorry I was trying not to lose this in the filter)
Cano’s problem is his approach to the game, lazy in the field, not concentrating in the field, poor plate discipline, not hustling out of the box…
All this is correctable, IMO I’m not sure who on that team he respect’s, maybe Posada.
“As far as Girardi being “tightly wound†is concerned, I could see some vets not liking that.
You know what I say to that? Too damn bad.
Let’s not go overboard with that stuff.
The Yankees are 4-13 in their last 17 post-season games under “laid back, get the most out of the playersâ€, Joe Torre.
How’s that such a great thing? Its not like the Yankees weren’t favorites in every series they have lost the last 4 years. They were and they crapped out every year. In some cases (see the ‘06 ALDS with the Tigers), they quit.
They haven’t won a post-season series since the ALDS in 2004.
Under “laid back, get the most out of your players†Joe Torre, they also participated in the biggest choke in the history of professional team sports.
Let that sink in for minute. How did being “laid back†help them in that series?
I think WAY too much is made out of the styles of each manager.”
Well said SJ.
As much as I like Pete, I do not understand why he keeps knocking down Girardi. Only thing I can think of is, Girardi poured someting into his coffee (or red bull), it tasted so bitter, he can not get over it
I am one of those very few who always maintiained the team will make to the playoffs inspite of all the injuries and inconsistencies. Ultimatley, I may be proven wrong after 13 years of making the playoffs. I can live with it.
I thought Pete’s blog entry above was very good, until I started reading what he says about Girardi.
The bototm line is the players who give up on Girardi are not going to be part of this team next year. Girardi is not going any where. Live with it. Also, I do not believe any player has given up on Girardi. Yeah, some of them did some stupid mistakes in the field in the last few games. That does not mean they gave up on somebody.
“If he would play 1st maybe but if he struggle’s fielding it could hamper his offense. Plus the shoulder?”
he’ll throw a lot less at 1B then he would as catcher.
he’ll handle the fielding just fine, or at least as well as whatever Giambi’s done this season. he came up as a 2B, and he’s still athletic enough to handle 1B.
id guess DH is his ultimate destination, but you cant catch him if he cant throw, no matter what you get from his bat at this point.
now if Matsui is traded, or gets injured again, problem solved. but if Matsui is healthy and plays in 2009, he’s the DH because he really cant run on those knees. that means Posada either catches, plays 1B, or sits the bench and doesnt hit at all… and thats not an option.
I’m going to believe until September. If we’re not within 4 of the wild card at the start of september, I call it quits.
I have no heart burn with Joe G, except he needs to stop Changing the Line-up everyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Think we could win with this team:
Damon CF
Jeter ss
Teixera 1st
A-Rod 3rd
Matsui LF
Nady RF
Giambi DH
Posad C
Cano 2
Starters: Sabathia, Wang, Chamberlin, Petite, Mussina (Hughes in wings)
YankeesFanNick is obviously not one
“Anyway Turn2 , Id take a guy like Milledge on my team because he plays hard everyday, I literally don’t see quit w/ that kid.”
yeah, i agree. he’s got a lot of fight in him, and a lot of confidence. in the right clubhouse, with Jeter and Posada, et al, that is definately a plus.
kind of why i like Prince Fielder. his bat would be unreal behind ARod in the lineup. and we know he has shortcomings in the field, but he’s got the right attitude and competitiveness which would help him thrive on teh big stage.
Think we could win with this team:
Damon CF
Jeter ss
Teixera 1st
A-Rod 3rd
Matsui LF
Nady RF
Giambi DH
Posad C
Cano 2
old CF, overpaid Tex, old unathletic LF, and a catcher that can’t throw. Yeh we’d win w/ that
The goal should be acquire young athletic 5 tool players, guys that can score in multiple ways not just slug a ball over a wall.
“Sar 515 August 15th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Think we could win with this team:”
Sure, but if we’re writing up wish lists, why not go ahead and add Han-Ram, Grady Sizemore and Tim Lincecum to the team while we’re at it.
kind of why i like Prince Fielder. his bat would be unreal behind ARod in the lineup. and we know he has shortcomings in the field, but he’s got the right attitude and competitiveness which would help him thrive on teh big stage.
His weight screams DH and at 1B he’d be a liability.
“The only omission from SJ44’s excellent critique is Torre’s inaction during the Midge Swarm Game. Torre’s laid-back style directly contributed to the Yankees losing that game and the series. Girardi would have gotten ejected before he let Joba continue pitching in that situation.”
You are absolutely correct.
Not only that, after yanks did not offer what he wanted and he left, Torre had a news conference. Then he talked about that game and said that he was concerned that his trip to the field will count and that is why he did not go and argue with the umpire. Still, can not beleive that a succesful manager like Torre would say such a thing after having more than a month to think about it. Unblievable. Where is Pete questioning this? If Girardi were to do the same, Pete would be crucifyiing him until he retires.
Sar515—- With Melky or Chrstian for late inning defense, ocassional rest maybe Damon can play CF, but it’s alot to expect Damon and Matsui to play in the field every day. Also, NO NO NO to Giambi. Also I want Pettite or Mussina, not both and count me among the mindless optimists that fully expects a solid season from Hughes in ’09.
Frits…
You think it’s a longshot that we land cc and Tx??
well, apparntly pete is NEVER gonna forgive girardi for giving damon a day off the other day. so the freakin guy played a hunch and it didnt turn out great, like torre never started a bench guy and had him go 0-4 or something!
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I say trade Cano this off-season while he still has some trade value!
Sar – I would be very surprised if we signed both, given the fact that they are both looking for long-term, high money deals. I would put the odds of CC much better than Tex. The rumor about tex is a 10 yr. deal. the yanks would be crazy to do that.
They need to trade to get Matt Kemp or Nate McLouth
and land CC.
skeptic – hilarious…
“You think it’s a longshot that we land cc and Tx??”
It’s a longshot that they land both of them. It’s not a longshot that they land one of them.
Nate McLouth stinks in CF he’s a COF in disguise. They put him at CF but he’s horrible range wise, let SJ or CB tell you more about him.
Cano, Melky, IBK and one of the arms in the Bullpen for Kemp and the old vetern Jeff Kent.
Kent probably got another year or two left.
Neither Torre nor Girardi is perfect. No manager is. But Pete repeatedly gave Torre a free pass when he made idiotic decisions.
I didn’t think too much of Pete’s criticism of Girardi until he posted Girardi’s 141-140 record as a manager with no additional comment, as if it should speak for itself. That provoked the predictable chorus of “LOOK AT HIS RECORD! HE SUCKS AS A MANAGER” comments, notwithstanding that 78 of those wins came with a Marlins team with a lower payroll than ARod’s annual salary, in Girardi’s only full season as a manager.
Nor do I like these vague “what if the players quit on Girardi” posts from Pete. Has Pete seen heard in his speaking with the team that supports this concern? If so, why isn’t he writing about it? If not, why is he bringing it up?
Is there some kind of rumor about lastings or was this just brought up as a what if kinda deal?
26 – i think kent is actually a FA after this year. not sure.
what i’d love to see is cano for kemp, maybe we throw in a lower level prospect. then sign mark ellis, defensive whiz. you get great defense, and you get matt kemp. win-win.
Sar 515 –
“Think we could win with this team:
Damon CF
Jeter ss
Teixera 1st
A-Rod 3rd
Matsui LF
Nady RF
Giambi DH
Posad C
Cano 2
Starters: Sabathia, Wang, Chamberlin, Petite, Mussina (Hughes in wings)”
Maybe…but it comes with huge huge risks.
The problem with that lineup is that you still have 3 question marks with Posada, Giambi, and Matsui and two 40 year old pitchers. Not to mention that you are probably looking at at least $350 million to add CC and Tex. Add that number to A-Rod’s salary and you have invested more than half a billion dollars in 3 payers, which is just totally insane.
Good post Pete. It was needed, especially with everyone ready to cut their wrists the last few days.
There’s nothing wrong with admitting when you’re done for. I’d like the Yankees to make it to the October Stage more than anything, but things look bleak, there’s no denying that. I’m a high-patience guy. I believed in Kei Igawa (don’t shoot me).
But I’m being reasonable. If the Yankees aren’t withing shooting distance by September, it’d take a hell of a collapse by the Red Sox for the Yankees to make a push. Plus, there’s the Twins/White Sox, who couldn’t be hotter.
I’m just saying we need to start thinking for 2009 if things don’t shape up. You can’t be too happy if we’re 6 back on September in the wild card with our rotation still Mussina, Pettitte, Rasner, Ponson, etc.
This is the final year of the bandaid approach. The Steinbrenner boys now have a full season under their belts and will pull the trigger on what it takes to go forward without straying away from the team getting younger and stripping the farm system.
I think it’s way too early to say that Hughes hasn’t panned out and I don’t think it’s a good idea to bring back Moose and Andy. I think Phil is healthy and I think when he comes up here in a week or two, he’s going to show us a lot more than he did earlier this season. If he does, he needs to have a spot in the rotation. I know about the innings limit, but we’ll deal with it. Andy has not been that good this year and I’m not sure what we would get out of Moose next year. I think we should re-sign one of them, but not both.
looks like the Rays having some injuries too, sounds terrible, but that’s a nice piece of news
I say we REALLY need CC and Teixeira would even consider my south bronx buddy Manny, (if he keeps hitting)..
I still believe, there is still hope!
no manny!