Rough night for Hughes
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 17, 2008 
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and Carl Pavano sparkled for Trenton
Meh. I still think Hughes should start versus Baltimore on Saturday.
An argument for Wright: three of the Orioles’ four best hitters are Huff, Markakis, and Scott, all lefties who have a worse platoon split against LHP. The fourth is Roberts, a switch-hitter who’s also done better in his career against RHP. Wright’s split vs. LHB and RHB this year are roughly the same. But even so, wouldn’t you rather have a guy who’s pitched pretty well all year long instead of, you know, Pavano? Or Igawa/Aceves or Kennedy/Hughes the way they’ve pitched lately. Wright pitched yesterday 8/16 so he could be pretty easily lined up to start on 8/23.
What was Pavano’s line today?
Dont you mean Phil Yews according to Michael Kay
I hope it’s just a dead arm period because the drastic drop in velocity is very disconcerting. It’s not fair to expect him to be perfect, but if Lehigh Valley isn’t very good, then shouldn’t Phil at least have been able to battle? I’m fighting myself here – I have faith in Phil, but I’m gettin a bit frustrated.
Michael Kay says”Phil use”
Even if they don’t call up Hughes, would they bring up Pavano from Trenton? He’s piggbacking Hughes. And don’t be fooled by Pavano’s efforts. These are his contract months. I know it’s terrible, but I really resent his presence and hope he doesn’t see another day in the Bronx. Not to mention, the clubhouse hates him.
I guess it is just a ‘dead’ arm period. They’ll probably give him one more start at AAA before recalling him. Looks like we might see Pavano starting Saturday.
Does Pavano give you a better chance to win the game? Probably not.
Does Pavano have any value otherwise? Nobody’s going to claim him on waivers before Sep. 1.
So what would the argument be for calling him up?
For whatever reason Chase Wright gets bypassed everytime an arm is needed yet he’s on the 40-man roster.
Go figure.
mel- You know what I said all year long I didn’t want Pavano brought up. But right now the team needs him. Yeah Rasner is a really nice guy. But this team is still in the hunt and can’t just rely on really nice guys to take them there.
wow. Never thought we’d see the day…
Michael Kay can’t pronounce anything that begins HU correctly. His “yuge” is hilarious. (That’s huge for those who speak correct English.)
91 pitches over 3 innings, Yikes! How was his velocity and movement? Were his pitches just flat???
I still believe in Phil, it’ll take a looong time for me to forget his gutsy mound appearance at our only win last year in the ALDS. But maybe this is too soon?
So Pavano’s line today was?
Pete — if Not Phil, then who are the best bets?
6 innings 1 run 6 hits 6ks for Pavano
Looks like he’ll be starting that game
And we already know how Hughes responds to being pushed beyond his physical limits. Anybody really want to risk another injury and l-e-n-g-t-h-y recovery?
Not quite as bad as Ken Singleton’s Jorge Pasaba.
Wright keeps getting passed by because those 4 LONG BALLS in Boston still have not landed
It’s apparent Hughes needs at least one more start at AAA.
I vote Chase Wright for Saturday.
Pavano’s getting called up soon. Even though he’s a jerk, he has playoff experience. Watch it happen.
Thanks 2008 Yankees. To be honest, at this point we have nothing to lose by starting him on Saturday. At least if he were to start, he has the opportunity to give the Yankees some value on their dollars, and maybe propel them into the playoffs.
Actually Singleton pronounces it “po-SAH-tha” — absolutely correct in Spanish, and about the only one who knows enough to do so.
Pavano will implode. Face it, he’s a cancer. He will wilt faster than a Hershey bar in the desert.
Josh Johnson,
If you have to ask twice, you probably have to look for it yourself.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....x_reaaax_1
I have no problem letting Pavano go on Saturday if his buttocks are up to it.
Are you sure? Sure sounds like Posaba to me.
I want Pavano to start that game, if for no other reason than some other team gives him another BIG contract and gets stuck for it too.
mel- I think he should get the call up too. But it doesn’t seem as though the Yankees are very high on him.
Pavano isn’t getting a big contract next year. He’ll be lucky to get something in the $3M range.
And Melky keeps the walks coming.
Hughes should still get the call. People are entitled to bad games. All of his other rehab starts were prettay..prettay…prettay good. I am really excited to see him pitch..maybe he can help them down the stretch.
Kevin
If the Yanks resurrected Sidney Ponson, and Rasner keeps getting chances, Pavano will get another chance to start.
Baltimore can hit. They’ve scored just 3 run fewer than Boston. They will eat Phil Hughes alive if he doesn’t have his best stuff and isn’t 100% ready. There are too few games left to take the chance.Keep him in Scranton.
Hey guys, I just reported my Arod sighting tonight in the previous thread! I can’t believe how star struck I am!!
Good point, Drive. Yes, Baltimore has a very potent offense. Frankly, if the Yankees haven’t taken 3 of 4 before Saturday, it may not matter who starts.
lol, Melky with yet another walk. Jeez.
So we’re dealing with Rasner plus a replacement for Joba/Giese/Kennedy?
The down side on letting Phil go is that if he pitches poorly the fans and media will crucify him.
The pressure builds more so with every start, he needs to be decent out of the blocks for that reason.
He needs to be physically ready to start in MLB, the question is, is he?
Rhapsody: That’s the correct pronunciation of Jorge’s last name in espanol. Posa”THA”
Wow… Here is my choices.
1. Pavano (We spent 40 mil on him might as well use him.)
2. Igawa (We spent 46 mil, might as well try him again. After all that new arm slot might work out.)
3. Chase Wright (Give him another shot)
4,5,6. Phil/IPK/Aceves still need more time to work out kinks.
Where was Arod?? And WHO was he with??
OK I did it…. I just dropped Phil Hughes in my fantasy league in anticipation of.. Carl Pavano’s next start with the Yankees.
I’ve said it 100X and I’m sure everyone is tired of me saying it, but use Pavano until his arm falls off!! Get what we can out of him
Wang IS Taiwan
No argument on the correct pronunciation, but is that what Singleton is saying?
It sounds like Posaba. And there is another word he announciates differently although I can’t recall at the moment.
I’m just not sure the Yankees want Pavano in their clubhouse ever again — whether he can pitch or not. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.
Why didn’t you say Hey to Alex? Just say nice hr today.
I say let Pavano go Saturday and if he can’t get it done then have a long man waiting. By the way, why does Igawa HAVE to be a starter? If I remember correctly, last year one of the best games he pitched was in long relief. We should try him at that and then ship him off to some other team.
wang- if Joe T was still manager I’d agree with you. But as Joe G said, he doesn’t look at the past, only what the player shows him. He isn’t going to harbor and ill will to him.
Even if Pavano sucks the place up there is no love lost.
Phil on the other hand needs to be physically ready for the challenge.
Dee, I just saw your reply in the previous thread. My dad and brother love Mahmouns. I like it, but I prefer getting a slice at Ben’s on the corner. But sometimes I have enjoyed the Ben’s/Mahmouns double. Mmmmmmm.
I really need to get back to the city!
Saturdays starter will be…
The Carl Pavano Memorial MRI Tube, lol
It’ll be either Chase Wright, or Carl Pavano
Hughes should definitely stay in the minors. He needs to get healthy innings under him. He doesn’t need the pressure right now of pitching in pennant race with an offensive that has been non existent for a few weeks.
This isn’t the time or place for him to come up again.
If the team can somehow shave just a game off the wild card lead each week, the last series in Boston will be a classic.
That said, if we get shelled this week and start going backwards again, then by all means bring up Hughes and let him take his lumps.
This really is the make or break week of the season.
We cannot afford to lose even a game in the standings this week, especially since Toronto can pass us in the standings with a sweep.
If our season ain’t over, neither is theirs.
“Where was Arod?? And WHO was he with??”
He was just with a normal looking guy, didn’t look like a body guard, seemed more like a friend. They were both dressed very casually in jeans and tshirts. My sighting report below…sorry I know this isn’t baseball related but I’m just a bit giddy
Dee August 17th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
I just saw A Rod in my neighborhood! He was wearing a white tee and jeans, just walking very leisurely with another guy and no entourage. We trailed him from a distance for 4 blocks from broadway to west broadway and saw him walk into Cipriani Soho. Surprisingly no one stopped him for those 4 blocked and he was walking pretty slowly.
I’m kind of embarrassed to be reporting this and I never report sightings on gawker even though I see celebs almost daily, but in case you’re not familiar with Cipriani, it’s the place you go to be seen and to be photographed by paparazzi. He just walked in there 15 minutes ago!
Could we blame Michael Kay for our season? I wish the Yankees will say “see ya” and get new announcers.
Jennifer — I’m don’t think the decision to bring Pavano up, though, is Girardi’s — it’s Cashman’s and he’ll take everything into account. There is no lost love there for Pavano.
Curious to see, right?
Went to the Blueclaws-Riverdogs game tonight. Stutes pitched well for Lakewood, 8 Ks. Got hit around in the first. Krum had a good game. Montero hit the ball hard but nothing to show for it. Laird got hit on the elbow and had to leave the game. He was replaced by Synder at first, who just looks like a ballplayer.
The pitching was pretty good for Charleston. Zink started and threw 4 full, followed by Artz and then Reyes. They were up 9-1 in the 9th after 3 runs in the top off of a sidearmer from Lakewood.
Angelini needs to bulk up a little bit, he had a couple of base hits. Probably needs another year or half year at Low A before moving to Tampa. Montero not bad tonight behind the plate, but didn’t have to throw much because Lakewood didn’t get on base much. Sloppy game from Lakewood.
Off to the game again tomorrow night
I still like Michael Kay… the two idiots on the radio can go. I was listening in the car on XM for a little bit today and my only thought was “what do fans of other teams say when they listen to this??”
Is Pavano on the 40 man roster?? I don’t think he is. So for Pavano to come up, somebody needs to be moved off the 40 man roster
I’ll bet the Yankees hold Phil back until they feel confident about his physical readiness.
Could be Carl Pavano.
He’s like a disposable camera though, if he is ready, I figure he’s only good for 1 or 2 starts before something breaks. Then Phil will be ready.
“I’ve said it 100X and I’m sure everyone is tired of me saying it, but use Pavano until his arm falls off!! Get what we can out of him”
Couldn’t agree with you more. The Yankees should at least try using him some way. Let him go and have Rasner as the long relief man. He didn’t do that bad in his relief appearance.
Chase Wright sucks. Let him keep pitching well at AAA and then trade him. Pavano, no matter how much you hate him, is the best option.
Well, forget it. TB will win this one.
“use Pavano until his arm falls off!!”
So you only want to get a couple innings out of him?
Hybrid Moments… if you’re looking to trade him, wouldn’t you want to roll the dice that he could put together a competent MLB start or two, which would drastically increase his value and easily falls into the realm of statistical possibility?
I hope Hughes is not hurt again. 5 runs in 3.2 inningsi s unacceptable for him.
Pavano will have to have his buttocks all duck tapped up for support before the start.
Tampa is gone… time to focus on the Red Sox, Chi Sox, and Twins.
Tampa is NOT gone….just wait until the free fall comes. They are a good team but I still fully believe they will NOT win the division. They are 1 more injury away from that point.
Pavano is on the 40 man. On the 60 day dl, or is that the 4 year dl.
Mark… you’ve solved it. Britton to the DL with a mysterious injury. Money in the bank.
Hughes and Pavano are both on the 60 day dl, so if we are at 40 someone will have to be moved no matter who gets the call.
I think Posada gets moved to the 60 day DL then and Pavano joins the ranks
Hughes is not hurt. He hit a dead arm period, he hasn’t pitched in a few months. it is normal.
What a season this has been. If nothing else, I’ve learned to turn a deaf ear to the Yankees’ hype machine and to look with a skeptical eye on their player development skills. This year’s draft was an embarrassment.
It was incredibly ironic to walk into Yankee Stadium yesterday and see Melky’s face on as issue of Yankee’s Magazine. It heralded him as the centerfielder now and in the future.
I’m done buying the hype. Melky, Kennedy and Hughes need fewer cover photos and more results. Keep all 3 of them in the minors and make them hungry. Just handing them spots on the 25 man roster is an injustice to all involved.
“use Pavano until his arm falls off!!â€
“So you only want to get a couple innings out of him?”
If we’re lucky
Good catch, didn’t realize that Jorge wasn’t on the 60 day.
Mike did a great re-cap of the River Dogs game in Lakewood, but left out one detail.
Jesus Montero was the, get this, IHOP Strikeout Player of the Game. If Montero was struck out at any time during the game, everyone in the stadium got a coupon good for 20% off at the Brick, New Jersey IHOP, good until September 15th. And they announced this EVERY TIME HE CAME TO THE PLATE. I was praying the guy would get a HR each time, just because, you know? But, alas, he did strike out once, and we did get our coupons, with no intention of driving an hour to Brick, NJ to redeem them.
Did you collect your coupon, Mike?
MLB.com only has 38 currently listed on the Yankees 40 man. No juggling necessary.
Kay would get on callers when they would pronounce Vazquez (Javier) incorrectly…at least the way he didn’t think was was the correct pronunciation. He is annoying.
Thanks pat, I didn’t feel like counting.
I’d like to see Wright for Saturday. He hit a tough spot there having to start in Fenway on national television (didn’t he also start against the Mets in the same timeslot?). I wouldn’t focus on those 4 dingers as the end of his career. I could definitely see him doing well.
This sounds crazy, I can’t believe I am going to say this..but I would really like to see Pavano make that start on Saturday
Is Aceves out of the picture as an option? I wouldn’t let Carl Pavano show off for anyone. I mean the guy is now pitching for his career and free-agency…so maybe he might be good, but I’m so spiteful.
Anyone think AJ Burnett will continue his mastery of the Yankees this year, but against no one else?
Jeeze this is exactly what we needed from Phil to stink up the joint now we are going to have to watch American “Idle” on Sat yippee!
“Anyone think AJ Burnett will continue his mastery of the Yankees this year, but against no one else?”
That’s a given lol
As for Pavano, he’s going to get a contract anyway. Someone will sign him for 2 years even if the Yankees don’t use him at all this season, you might as well get what you can out of him. If he’s healthy it’s a huge boost to the rotation and we’d have a great hitter back in the lineup (Matsui) and a great pitcher to add to the rotation (Pavano + possibly Joba)
hughes should be the perfect example of why it is dangerous to rely on prospects.
phil was a can’t miss prospect… he had everything going for him. he threw in the mid 90s with sick movement, killer curveball, outstanding mental makeup, flawless command, clean bill of health, perfect pitchers build, smart kid with a good head on his shoulders. he was the youngest pitcher in AA and he was making them look silly. you couldn’t find a more sure-thing than hughes.
now look at him… diminished velocity, injury prone, underdeveloped secondary pitches, new mechanics, and lost 80% of the season two years in a row to injury. he went from a strikeout/power guy to someone who the yankees want to induce contact.
same logic can be applied to tabata. a year ago he was our manny… a guy who hit for average and had an advanced understanding of the strike zone who was ready to break out. the crown jewel of our farm who was in the futures game as a 17 yr old. a year later? traded for xavier nady. in the winter, this guy was untouchable for santana and miguel cabrera, and 6 months later he is traded for nady.
just goes to show.. never get too attached or enamored with prospects, they are year to year and most never pan out. sit back and enjoy their progress but dont have false hope.
Wright might be a smart call up against Baltimore’s LH core hitters. Of course, Igawa is a lefty too ….
I think it will be Pavano. Girardi mentioned him and Hughes the other night, so they’re obviously thinking about it. Pavano needs to audition for other clubs, and we might as well get what we can out him while we’re still paying him.
Hey, don’t forget, he was our Opening Day starter last year! :p
A junkballer like Chase Wright could get by for one game against Baltimore. Plus, if he did well he could increase his trade value. He’s a better option, IMO, than either Hughes or Pavano.
“now look at him… diminished velocity, injury prone, underdeveloped secondary pitches, new mechanics, and lost 80% of the season two years in a row to injury. he went from a strikeout/power guy to someone who the yankees want to induce contact.”
Very depressing.
Well it doesn’t appear we will gain any ground on the Rays.
Why can every other team kill Texas pitching but us?
COL88…I’m not ready to sell Hughes down the river, but I agree with you on the injury-prone aspect. It’s very hard to ignore. The thing is…they haven’t been arm-injuries, which is good. But an injury is an injury. I hope he can pull it out and find himself.
JoeT…youre probably right about Pavano, but I’m just so spiteful that he fleeced us.
If they feel Pavano is the best option to win then let him pitch. I want to see this team win. I don’t care about what Carl Pavano does after this year. If he can help this team the final month and a half I say let him pitch.
LOL. Hughes? LOL.
No longer Phil Franchise, Pete?
Hughes is legitimate, if he can stay healthy. He produced at every level in the minors and had a no-no going aginst the Rangers last year when he got injured. Tabata’s stock fell because of his attitude, not because people have concluded he’s not a future major-leaguer.
Eric Duncan is a good example of a failed prospect, but Hughes and Tabata aren’t, yet.
hey ER – it’s nice to see you after a Yankees victory…. very rare for you
Doreen,
Didn’t collect my coupon although I live in Brick. Not that big of a fan of IHOP, give me the dinner or Mariner’s Cove in Brielle any day of the week.
I guess they had to do something about Montero since he hit one about 450 ft on Friday night.
I think Hughes can be an effective starter…he just needs to avoid FREAK injuries. Will he be a #1? No…but thats what Joba is. If you have a rotation starting with Joba and Wang, you can build around them.
jennifer,
Very good question. But I’m not all that upset bout the Rays winning. It’s highly unlikely our offense is good enough to win enough games to catch the Rays. A Rays win and and Bosux loss works for me. It would be far more enjoyable for me if we catch Boston and knock them out of the playoffs and win the Wild Card.
I am not going to lie I was psyched about Hughes coming out of spring training I’m sure most of us were.
Drive 4-5
Very true, That is the optimists way to look at the things.
Well…let a pessimist (me) say that I don’t think the Yanks will make the Wild Card, but I just hope Minny/ChiSux beat out the BoSux
What was Phil’s velocity at? I think he needs one more start in AAA at least.
Well let me a glass 1/3 full person state that we still have 4 games against the white soxs.
jennifer,
since you’ve done more hw that i have, those 4 games will be big then…
Ok, heres my bad post. Could Hughes be a bust? In 94 ML innings hes 5-7 with a era of 4.46 last year and 9.00 this year. I know he is hurt this year, but I expect that he would not be pitching in AAA right now if he wasnt healthy, and if he is healthy he should not be tired since he missed most of this season. he really should be dominating that level if he is who the Yankee brass say he is. If he isn`t there is too much Kool aid drinking, and it may have cost them a playoff opportunity this season.
Santana shut out Pittsburgh today. 3 people mentioned in the trade for Santana, Melky, Hughes, Kennedy, all are in AAA right now. Santana is not having a superior year but he is better than anything in a Yankee uniform.
Not sure where Yanks would be with that trade, I gotta think there were 10 losses pinned on Kennedy and Hughes this year, so maybe thats the difference in the Yanks season?
Yanks in my mind always used their young players to get season veterans, lately, people point to that as the reason why they are playing so badly now. Maybe the blend that management came up with especially in the starting pitching wasnt the right move. Maybe Hughes OR Kennedy, not both in the rotation. Who knows
Bad outing for Hughes. He absolutely should not get called up.
He’s been throwing the ball very well in all of his other rehab starts.
This sounds like some dead arm was affecting him tonight. He’s in exactly the right time frame for dead arm to be setting in. His velocity was down a little bit tonight. That’s what it sounds like.
Nothing to worry about – pitchers coming back from long layoffs very often go through dead arm periods. It’s the fatigue of coming back setting in before the pitcher has rebuilt his arm strength.
He needs to continue building his arm strength before he comes back up. He’ll need at least one more minor league start. But if this is a dead arm period he’ll need at least 2-3 more minor league starts.
The worst part about the Rays game tonight is they are basically marching out a minor league lineup against Texas.
Upton
Zobrist
Pena
Floyd
Aybar
Hinske
Navarro
Gross
Bartlett
black yankee,
He’s still getting his arm strength back.
They want him in the majors at 100 percent. So he can throw over 100 pitches.
that non-santana trade is going to be a disaster for us. i dont even know if its cashman’s fault. how was he supposed to know hughes would be pavano jr and kennedy is an AAAA pitcher? sure, neither of them will ever be as good as santana but this bad? they have cost us so many games. santana has a 2.75 ERA and dominating. such a depressing season.
I think Phil AND Joba should get the rest of the year off. Let Pavano earn his 40mil let our future rehab fully and get ready for 09.
That non-Santana deal will be genius in 6 years, when Hughes is a successful ML pitcher, and Santana’s having arm surgery. Bank it.
No matter what has happened this year, I still stand behind not dealing for Santana.
About Pavano – if he can do anything to help this Yankee team, I’m all for it.
Understood Dan,
but my point is that the trade or non-trade looks worse and worse, especially with Melky going down. Yankees are not a patient group, and either are the fans. They sometimes have to roll the dice, and if a young guy is stalled then they got to move them for something that works now. It makes no sense to have this much $$$ tied up every year in payroll and not be contending. They lock up veteran players, pay them past their quality playing days, and then try to have it both ways by trying to wait on and develop young players.
That non trade of Santana ( I know its Monday morning Quarterbacking by me) could be the difference this year. Santana would have been another player paid well past his production times, but the Yanks would be alot closer and the $$$ on the books this year would not be wasted on a losing season
They could have had Santana, but it sure as hell would not have changed the fact that the offense is just awful and can’t score.
bjif dont worry they are facing minor leauge pitching. lol. they have laa and cws and other good teams left.
I’m of the opinion that Hughes and Kennedy should both stay in Scranton until the minor league season is over. A big part of their struggles stem from being rushed. For Saturday, go with Pavano or Wright. If it was my call, Wright. Odds are he will do well for one or two starts until he gets figured out.
Hughes is not a bust. Hughes is the real deal. He’s just been rushed, and had too much responsibility too fast. Everyone keeps focusing on his velocity. If Farnsworth taught us anything, it’s that velocity doesn’t necessarily translate. Hughes has good late life on his fastball, making it effective without high nineties velocity. The kid just needs to be developed at his own pace. Not everyone can be an immediate success like Joba.
Maybe for just this year but Santana looks like hes over the hill already it might not show up in the numbers but his velocity, and overrall stuff is down in the NL where he has to face only about 6 ML hitters. He doesn’t look like the same guy from Minnesota and that was only a year ago that is cause for concern IMO.
Someone Else,
Everyone was worried about the results of the Santana trade over the 7 years.
Year #1 overwhelmingly goes to Santana.
We’ll see what years 2 through 7 bring. There’s no more sense in predicting a Santana injury than there is a 20 win season by Hughes.
Oh lord, not the Santana talk again.
I vote for 4 man rotation.
Moose, Pettitte, Ponson and Rasner/hughes/pavano/whoever
“They could have had Santana, but it sure as hell would not have changed the fact that the offense is just awful and can’t score.”
Exactly. This offense would have spoiled at least 6-8 wins for him.
There is no way to say it but that was a horrible start for Hughes 90-92 mph was his velocity. According to reports he was throwing more curveballs than fastballs (IDK if that was especially planed for tonight or just a bad feel day on his fastball because he didn’t throw it much.)
RSM,
“Oh lord, not the Santana talk again”
No more from me:)
On the Johan Santana talk he would have been whipped in the AL I don’t think people understand the difference w/ thier hitters and ours. And since when is SP our problem ?
Santana proved again that he should be a Yankee. COmpare Hughes to him again. How’s Johan’s stuff now??
“There is no way to say it but that was a horrible start for Hughes 90-92 mph was his velocity. According to reports he was throwing more curveballs than fastballs (IDK if that was especially planed for tonight or just a bad feel day on his fastball because he didn’t throw it much.)”
Maybe he was working on command of his breaking stuff.
Exactly. This offense would have spoiled at least 6-8 wins for him.
Try 10-12 his ineffectiveness vs 1 more hitter and this offense choking in late innings.
Maybe he was working on command of his breaking stuff.
That’s what I’m thinking about. Remember Kennedy was order to throw more curveballs to prepare for the ML, my thinking is they did the same w/ Hughes tonight.
I love that people are saying sign CC for 7 yrs and more money than Johan. But they don’t worry about the years of that deal.
Ponson has pitched better than everyone except Moose. He’s sorta built like David Wells. If he has the same “rubber” arm as Wells, maybe he can just pick up an extra start on Saturday? Problem solved.
Before you clowns start, I am just kidding!
My thinking with the Yanks is they thought to give up 3 prospects who they highly regarded at the time AND pay Johan 150 MIl was simply too much for one guy even if that guy is an Ace. Now this offseason they can get CC or many others for money only as opposed to giving up Hughes who still might turn out to be a 2 or 3.
I would agree that maybe they were having Hughes work on his pitches but then why take him out after 3.2 IP. He was at 91 pitches and projected to throw 100. If that were the case I think they would have let him get the final out.
Brandon– if you look at the comments section of Jennings’ post about Hughes, he said he didn’t think he was working on things, said there were no changeups. And it was the same things he did last start but this time he was getting hit.
Brandon,
“And since when is SP our problem ?”
ummm This is a critical week for the yanks.Can you name Saturday’s starter?
“I love that people are saying sign CC for 7 yrs and more money than Johan. But they don’t worry about the years of that deal.”
CC is better than Johan. Please dont bring up the fat issue hes great and he isn’t the first dominant pitcher with some girth. See Bartolo Colon, David Wells, Curt Schilling.
Face the facts.
Hughes isn’t the stud we all heard he was going to be.
Just like th reds are finding out with Homer Bailey. The Dodgers found out with Edwin Jackson. Some touted pitchers dominate minor leaguers but can’t translate it.
He should have been part of a package to get a top level starter in here since we already had a great rookie pitcher. Joba.
ummm This is a critical week for the yanks.Can you name Saturday’s starter?
Can you name me the Yankee that will hit w/ RISP
Brandon– if you look at the comments section of Jennings’ post about Hughes, he said he didn’t think he was working on things, said there were no changeups. And it was the same things he did last start but this time he was getting hit.
No offense to Jennings but that’s his opinion not a concrete fact, and for there not to be change ups thrown would favor him working on command of a certain pitch. 90-92 sounds like his cutter, alot of curveballs tonight (that’s what I would be interested in knowing how many curveballs:fastballs he threw) Remember minor league ball is about working on your pitches the stats aside he’s working on pitch control and command.
Brandon,
“Can you name me the Yankee that will hit w/ RISP”
Totally different question/problem. The subject is pitching, and the Yankees do not have a #5 starter on their roster.
“Face the facts.
Hughes isn’t the stud we all heard he was going to be.
Just like th reds are finding out with Homer Bailey. The Dodgers found out with Edwin Jackson. Some touted pitchers dominate minor leaguers but can’t translate it.
He should have been part of a package to get a top level starter in here since we already had a great rookie pitcher. Joba.”
Hughes can still be used to get a top level starter a lot of teams would still like to have him. However why do that when CC, Burnett, Sheets, Oliver Perez and Garland can be had for money alone.
“Can you name me the Yankee that will hit w/ RISP”
Pitching is more important than hitting. Or I guess you haven’t seen the playoffs the past 100 years.
Brandon, Johnny Damon hits more than .400 with RISP and 2 outs, same with Abreu and Jeter has an over .300 RISP. The only issue really is with Arod adn Giambi who are supposed to drive in runs and can’t. I guarentee you, they hit maybe 30 or 40 points higher, and we have like 5 or 6 more wins.
Hughes isn’t the stud we all heard he was going to be.
Oh yes. Washed up at 22. Sad.
What has Hughes shown you that he can be a top level starter?
His stuff is average at best. A fastball that doesn’t dominate and tops out at 93 isn’t great.
He doesn’t have a third pitch.
I just don’t see top level starter here.
nate you are 1 patient dude.
yeah edwin jackson is not a stud, the guys is about 24 and in his 3rd year in the rotation.
hughes is done he is 22 and washed up.
the patience and talent evaluation of the posters here is moronic..
maybe hughes was told to work on certain pitches, maybe he has a dead arm, who the hell knows.. I know 1 thing Nate has no clue.. If Nate was in charge of Cleveland CLiff Lee would be in independent ball or Roy halladay would still be working on things in single A.get a clue.. I have never read so many pitching coaches comments except on this blog>>>
Oh yes. Washed up at 22. Sad.
Just because hes not a front line starting stud pitcher doesn’t mean he’s washed up.
Pitching is more important than hitting. Or I guess you haven’t seen the playoffs the past 100 years.
WHAT HAS BEEN OUR PROBLEM THIS SEASON !!!!
AL we rank # 11 out 14 in hitting w/ RISP
nate why do you spout such stupidity?
Do you try to be an idiot or it comes naturally?
Maybe you can assist Nardi COntreras or Mel Stottlemeyre, you can turn around the Mariners staff!!!
The Yankees do have 5th starters. Just missing a solid #2, #3 (Pettite and Ponson have pitched decently but both their ERA’s are aournd 4.5 making them not exactly a solid 2/3 starter). Our fifth starter is Rasner but we need another one which is why our pitching is in shambles but so far, if we had offense, it wouldn’t be a problem since they are pitching well.
“That non trade of Santana ( I know its Monday morning Quarterbacking by me) could be the difference this year.”
No it wouldn’t have. Not even close.
The yankee’s team ERA this year is 4.29. Last year their team ERA was 4.49.
This year they are giving up an average of 4.47 runs per game as a team (earned runs and unearned).
So right now we can guess that the yanks are going to allow around 724 runs total for this season. That should have been very good for this team.
Coming into this season the yankees were projected to score 887 runs this season (around 5.5 per game – this takes into account that offense in the AL is down this year 4% overall compared to last season.)
If the yankees had pitched like they are this year and given up 724 runs and scored as they were expected to – 887 runs guess what their record should have been?
97 – 65.
Despite all of the problems with Hughes and Kennedy the pitching has been fine (largely due to Mussina and the bull pen).
They’ve pitched well enough to win 97 games and cruise into the playoffs.
Instead they are on a pace to win 86 games.
If they miss the playoffs it is almost entirely due to the offense. No question.
Instead of scoring an average of 5.5 runs per game the offense is only scoring 4.8 runs per game.
That under performance is going to cost the team 13 wins.
With the pitching they’ve gotten should be cruising to the division title with 97 wins.
Instead they’ll need a near miracle to even win the wild card.
No one pitcher could have made up that difference. Not even close.
Pitching is more important than hitting. Or I guess you haven’t seen the playoffs the past 100 years.
Pitching is important, but have you even seen this team? How many great/good pitching performances have gone to waste thanks to the pathetic offense. Sometimes scoring 1 run is a miracle with them…
stuart please enlighten me as to what Hughes has to done and what stuff he ahs to warrant stud praise?
Besides being named top pitcher by a few publications.
Which a lot of young pitchers have been and never panned out.
He doesn’t have dominating stuff. he’s not a front line pitcher. Never said he was washed up but he’s not the great pitcher he was hyped to be.
Luckily we already have that young pitcher. That made Hughes expendable for a stud pitcher.
Santana was that guy.
Going to cost us the season and probably next as well.
But good luck with the whole patience game.
Ask Pitt, KC, Tex, Balt etc how that game goes.
I don’t care if Cy Young was pitching for the Yanks…hey can’t hit. Santana, Sabathia, Webb, Beckett…stick any of them in the Yanks rotation and it doesn’t mean the Yanks can hit.
By the way, today, the Yanks scored their quota for the week. Just a sign of things to come.
The Yankees ruined Hughes.
The pitcher today is not the same one who dominated Trenton and was the #1 prospect in baseball.
It is sad that people continue to make excuses for him. He has been living off his 2006 reputation for 2 years. Don’t give up on him but be cognizant of how much he has regressed and how little he has shown us.
Hold the presses Nate said Hughes is not a frontline starter.. Must be true.
Hey give me some stock tips for Monday, please.
Can you also tell me which team I should bet on to win the world series I am going to Vegas Monday.
Also tell me what is a matter with Beckett also..
You are just spouting BS like most posters, you have no clue just like me..
id still start him.
Nate, Moose throws an 87 mph fastball. Since when has velocity been the only way to look at domination. Also, by that logic Santana isn’t dominating because he throws 90-91
BTW, I think Santana is great but I back the nontrade.
The offense would have hit better if Santana was in the rotation. He takes all the pressure off. You know you don’t need to score 8 tuns a game when hes out there.
Unlike Kennedy and Hughes and Rasner.
i dont get why we’ll so readily throw darrel rasner and dan geise out there and not our prospects.
I am done for the night.. nate and the other guy are just talking garbage ..\
I have read enough for 2 lifetimes about Santana and that whole bull crap..
mental midgets the Yanks did not want to pay $145 mill. with luxury tax etc. and lose 4 prospects that is the bottom line..
You clowns will be in hiding in 3 years when Santana is avg.\
good night pitching coaches..
To be absolutely honest I think the offense is in a funk because of the amount of injuries if Wanger doesn’t get injured in that Houston game you would see a different Yankee offense today.
Moose came out of college with great stuff and pinpoint location and was a master at changing speeds.
Has Hughes shown you any of that, 27?
Please don’t compare some prospect who got good reviews to a stud like Mussina who will be in the HOF.
Hughes is a #3 starter at best. You can call me stupid all you want but a facts a fact.
This team would be a title team with Santana. Without him they are BEGGING Sabathia in a few months to take their over priced offer.
Begging him. To a guy who has shown no inkling of wanting to play in NY. This market could eat him alive.
so funny how muss is a stud now. last year he was a washed up failure
“i dont get why we’ll so readily throw darrel rasner and dan geise out there and not our prospects.”
Rasner and Giese actually give 5-6 innings and occasionally
a quality start when has IPK or any other prospect done that this year?
Because Rasner and Giese have pitched better than Hughes/Kennedy?
Ask Pitt, KC, Tex, Balt etc how that game goes.
I’d rather not.
Ok lets try this one hey Texas how do you feel about giving up on Edinson Volquez ?
Pittsburgh how did that Oli Perez deal work out for ya ?
Baltimore uhhh….KC……. (bad examples)
Nate, how old are you?
I understand your thinking Al, but do not agree. The offense stunk from day one. It’s not like they fell off after Wang’s injury. The have underperformed ALL SEASON, except for very brief stints in June and July.
The offense would have hit better if Santana was in the rotation. He takes all the pressure off. You know you don’t need to score 8 tuns a game when hes out there.
Nate, ask TOR how believing in Halladay worked out. halladay is the best starter because he gives innings with a great ERA.
The offense would have hit better if Santana was in the rotation. He takes all the pressure off. You know you don’t need to score 8 tuns a game when hes out there.
Ohhhhhh so Johan has a magic hitting potion, was he gonna show Cano how to swing at good pitches, was he going to tell Arod and Stache to hit w/ RISP, was he going to tell Jetes not to hit into double plays. So when he was throwing 96 pitches into the 6th in NL to translate that the NL is weak so we are talking about how he’d fair vs better hitters in the AL which would not have been any better because he’d go against one more hitter per lineup. He isn’t the same guy he was in Minny. That is not well spent dollars for the future. Like stuart said I guarantee when he starts pitching like crap you’ll do a 180.
COL 88, you made my point for me. The Yankees have tinkered with Phil beyond the point where I think it was good for him. If they didn’t like who he was as a pitcher, then they should not have drafted him. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t make some adjustments if necessary, but they are trying to remake him and it’s making me sick to my stomach. This kid may throw groundballs instead of flyouts, but he was a power pitcher (not a traditional flame thrower, but a real power pitcher, emphasis on pitcher). Now, they have basically gone all Frankenstein on Phil and conducted every sort of experiment possible. Sheesh, the Yankees have just about ruined this kid. I know they have the best of intentions, but it just seems to me that Phil was a better pitcher when he first came into the system and in his early minor league career than he is now. I’ll grant only one thign:
Maybe it’s just easier for me to blame the Yankees than it is for me to accept that Phil isn’t as precocious as we hoped or thought he was.
I guess I’m the type of idiot fan who likes WINNING and winning titles. And not one of the fans who hopes a prospect can win 15 games three years from now when we have a system that is deep in right handed pitching.
Forgive me for doubting that Hughes becomes half as good as Johan Santana. Forgive me and all like me who actually want to win this year and think rebuilding is ridiculous when you have HOF littered around the field.
Obviously, the Yanks poor performance with RISP is the biggest reason for their plight.
The pitching ranks in the middle of the AL in just about every category you can measure. Not great by any means, but enough to get by. But that begs the question.
The Yankees need 5 starters at their best the rest of the way. They only have 4 starters, period.
trisha – “I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
About Pavano – if he can do anything to help this Yankee team, I’m all for it.”
Trish – even after all these years you’re still nauseating.
I’m as big a supporter and fan of Phil Hughes, but it appears that Young Master Hughes will need at least another start at AAA……As CB pointed out he’s right on schedule for arm fatigue ( dead arm syndrome )….Better there than with the big club……
CB,
Based on your analysis, which I think is true, would that mean the Yankees should go after an offensive player (like Teixeira) as opposed to a starter (like CC) this off-season in your opinion. Or do you think this is just a flukie offensive year and the Yanks should try first to fortify the pitching? Which would be your #1 priority this off-season?
“I threw too many pitches over the plate,†Hughes said. “That pretty much sums it up. I was decent, but I left too many fastballs over the plate and they jumped all over them… Physically I felt fine. A little bit of a dead arm, but you’re going to go through those days when you don’t have your best stuff. You just try to compete and unfortunately I wasn’t able to do that today.”
sounds like Hughes went through dead arm tonight
Yea Nate, because trading away prospect for pitchers on the decline has worked out so well for the last six or seven years. Absolutely, trading away everyone just knowing one stud came through is enough. We got Joba once we put an emphasis in player development. If we continued our old strategy, we would trade everyone away for washed up people like Randy Johnson. Good luck to ya!
Pat M,
What did you make of the Garrett Cole situation? Very surprising.
If the kids family wanted him to go to college that’s their prerogative, but what a disaster for the yankees.
It wasn’t just not getting Cole – it was burning the pick. Sure they get a compensatory pick next year but that’s a year of not having a first round talent in the system developing.
And on top of that I think the subsequent 2 picks they made (round 1 supplemental and round 2) were conservative ones made with the idea that Cole was a young kid who would be very expensive to sign and take some time to develop.
Then the round 2 pick has a bad shoulder and doesn’t sign. The supplemental pick may need TJ surgery.
Nothing out of their first three picks. Tough year.
All of your hard detective work on Cole prior to the draft – and he doesn’t even sign.
Picking him should have been a coup. I thought Peter Gammons was going to cry when they announced the yankees picking Cole.
So it goes. Strange situation, however. Personal issues I suppose.
My post from this morning about this subject.
Watching Halladay pitch masterfully last evening against the Sox was a remainder to me just how long that it takes for a pitcher to reach their true potential. Halladay broke in in 1998 at the age of 21.In only his second start he took a no-hitter into the 9th inning.
However the following season 1999 Halladay was 8-7 with a 3.92 ERA. Not bad but a little short of expectations. But 2000 was a disaster, 4-7 with a 10.64 ERA. People were wondering what had happened to him and whether he would ever make it as a big league pitcher. It wasn’t until 2002 that Halladay finally arrived with a 19-7 record. In 2003 he won the Cy Young award.
But there were also the demotions back to the farm system and even a stint at “A†ball between the 2000-2001 seasons before he got back on track.
I still believe that both Hughes and Kennedy will be effective MLB pitchers and wonder how the tone on this thread might be a bit different if they had at least stayed healthy early this season and given us a bit of inspiration everything else that has gone awry.
YankeeJosh, I would go for more pitching. I think Arod will hit better with RISP and I think Cano will be better. Whoever plays CF will be better knowing someone is breathing down their back. Damon will stay better and onw Matsui would have had surgery on both knees hopefully making both of them healthy enough for a good season hiting .300 with RISP. No Giambi will eliminate the .200 RISP BA and pitching would be a concern with so many young pitchers. I think Moose will be ok next year, not as good as this year but still a good pitcher.
YankeeJosh that is different all CC cost is money and he has shown more durability over Santana. Tex is an almost definite not gonna happen, He wants money, he wants longterm and he has Borass who we’re not happy w/ and I’m betting the Yankees FO has the same thoughts.
When does the AAA season end? I think Phil should stay down there until then…….if he’s ready to be brought up, great. If not, we’ll see him next year
“Based on your analysis, which I think is true, would that mean the Yankees should go after an offensive player (like Teixeira) as opposed to a starter (like CC) this off-season in your opinion.”
YankeeJosh,
There’s no question – it must be CC. There’s no comparison in value between CC and Tex.
This yankee team needs to be gutted and reconstructed to play in an entirely different way.
That has to be based on dominant pitching.
We keep talking about how the yankees need an “ace.”
But that’s not going to be enough to compete in the AL east – not with the talent boston and Tampa have.
The yankee’s near term goal is to have a 5 man rotation in which ever member is a #1 or #2 starter. That’s why they keep drafting pitching.
CC goes a long way in making that happen.
It’s a little hard to explain – but Teixeira isn’t by himself going to make up for the deficiencies in this offense.
What will is Posada and Matsui being healthy. Cano and Jeter playing back up to expectations. ARod hitting with RISP like he did in 2007 or 2006. And having a centerfielder who hits better than a replacement level player.
It’s a combination of all of those things and other moves (a trade to replace Giambi, etc) that’ll make the offense perform better.
Tex alone will not make up for the number of runs this team has failed to score – not even close.
They need a new model for how they play. A paradigm shift.
That’s pitching first. CC is the next piece to make that happen.
rhapsodyinblue,
that’s a very good post. I agree completely with you.
There’s no doubt – if the young Halladay pitched in New York yankee fans would have hated him, called him a bust and wanted to dump him.
No doubt about it. He would have been written off by the fanbase and media.
Now he’s the best pitcher in baseball.
CB
Thanks.
The very worst thing that could ever happen to either Kennedy or Hughes would be to read some of the posts here.
“Ok lets try this one hey Texas how do you feel about giving up on Edinson Volquez ?”
Josh Hamilton is only a MVP candidate.
The Cole situation was both disappointing and surprising…..His decision got very little coverage out in the local fish wraps, but I was certain that he was going to sign…Boras or no Boras this kid wanted to play for the Yanks, or so it was believed……Big setback for the Oraganization I think….Man he would have set the Yanks way ahead of all the other clubs when came to elite pitching depth……
Please don’t compare Hughes to Halladay.
Compare Halladay to Joba because that is the kind of stuff he has.
Hughes doesn’t have Halladay’s stuff. He’s not half the pitcher he is.
You are making it harder for him by even suggesting he is in that ballpark as a pitcher.
“Man he would have set the Yanks way ahead of all the other clubs when came to elite pitching depth……”
Pat,
He really would have. Add him to Betances and Brackman. That would have been something. One of those 3 would have worked out. That’s why Gammons sounded like he was going to cry when they drafted cole. He knew how good the kid was.
By the way – I think you’ll enjoy this if you haven’t seen it. It’s an interview with Kyle Higashioka. Sounds like a very nice kid. In the interview he talks about how good Cole is (caught his once).
Kyle is have a very good season in GCL ball.
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/20.....igashioka/
Think so Shel?
I said this before, Kyle will move up the ranks faster than Romine…..
Nate — I’m with you 100%. Unfortunately, the majority of the blog are prospect huggers who would much rather talk Charleston, Scranton and Trenton that the NY Yankees.
I’m all for the farm system, but I can’t believe the fascination with prospects who in most cases will never help/make the big club and who most of which will never wear a Yankee uniform.
I believe you keep the cream of the crop (the Joba’s, Jeter’s of the world), identify them early and trade the rest to fill holes on your club.
A lot more people here think we should be developing 4-5 starters in the minors. I think if a guy projects as a 4-5, trade him to some loser team that would overpay for a back end arm that may or may not pan out. If a guy is projecting as a back end of the rotation arm, that means there’s just as much chance he won’t make it in the show than there is he will.
Cashman made a great move this season trading what he did for Nady/Marte. That’s the kind of deals I hope we see over the off season. Deals that help the big club for years to come by trading prospects who we can live with dealing.
Look at this season alone — Sidney Ponson, who most of the people on this blog were ready to burn at the stake when he was signed turned out to be a good piece of the rotation, a piece I might add that should be brought back instead of promising Hughes/Kennedy a spot next year.
You don’t develop your whole team in the minors. You need to make trades, signings and not fall in love with your prospects to the point that you won’t/can’t make deals.
Clearly, you develop a Joba or this Melancon kid who has sky rocketed through the system, you hang on to them.
You don’t hang on to all of them though.
I was vocal from the second it became known Johan was on the block that we make the deal. We didn’t. I think the hubris this organization showed has a lot to do with how this season played out with the kids they said they couldn’t part with.
I think the good thing about this season is Cashman, or whoever the next GM will be, won’t make the same mistake and will jump at deals for proven young top talent over guys who haven’t proved anything other than in very small spurts.
G. Love, you are not a fan of Phil’s – but he should not be lumped in with Kennedy at all. He is part of the cream of the crop – he was a stud prospect when he raced through their system and he’s still one in their minds (even if fans don’t think it’s so). Therefore, they were not about to trade him for you-know-who (I’m tired of hearing his name and I haven’t thought about that no-deal in many months). Ok, he’s been injured – who could have foreseen that? He’s still just 22. If fans don’t have patience, well – too bad, it’s their problem. If fans want him dealt, again, too bad- it’s their problem. Face it – the Yankees feel differently about Phil Hughes than many fans, possibly because they know more about baseball. Given the fact that teams were clamoring for Phil at the trading deadline, I think it’s safe to say that he is still very highly thought of.
Kennedy is also young and he could still be a #4 pitcher – that’s still pretty good. You need those guys in your rotation. He’s a guy you could deal for a decent package if so inclined, but there’s hardly a moral imperative for the Yankees to do so. They don’t trade guys they feel are really that good, so if they end up holding onto Kennedy, then that says something.
Betsy,
It’s not that I’m not a fan of Hughes. I like him. But I don’t like him enough to have him be the reason we don’t trade for a Cy Young award winner under 30.
That’s old news and I think if the Yankees had the chance to do that deal again, they would do it knowing what they know now.
It’s not that I’m anti-Hughes. I’m pro-Yankees. I believed in my heart that this team needed an ace #1 starter to pair with Wang, Pettite and whoever else was in the rotation this spring.
I did not feel that Hughes was ready for that. I was at the playoff game he helped win against Cleveland last year and I cheered like Hell for him, but I never thought for a second that he was ready to anchor this rotation yet.
As for Kennedy, I don’t believe in overrating Sept. callups. A lot of teams mail it in, a lot of players are thinking of vacation and a lot of minor league hitters who should be in AAA are up in the lineups.
Kennedy had a nice Sept. run, but there was no way he should have been named a member of this rotation in the off season. That was just plain stupid and it was a Cashman ego move.
That was Cashman playing Theo. Him and Theo palled around all winter and talked up how they had the prospects to not need the starters from other teams.
Turns out only Lester was ready. They both were wrong more than they were right about their young starters.
At this point with no Johan, Haren or CC available via trade (and I mean young established top of the rotation starter) you can’t trade Hughes.
Unless Toronto loses it’s mind and puts Hallyday on the block, then you trade him.
But now, we’ve made our bed with him and we have to see it through.
I’m not as optimistic as most of you about him, but I hope he surprises me and does well.
CB, I believe you are wrong on all accounts:
“There’s no question – it must be CC. There’s no comparison in value between CC and Tex.”
Winshares 04 05 06 07 08 Tot50% more Winshares then CC. Note that ARod has been worth 44% more Winshares then Santana. Add in injury posibility and aging, and you decide who is worth more, Tex or CC. A stud position players is ALWAYS worth more then a Pitcher, simply because a Pitcher only participates in 1 of 5 games during the season. However, because a Pitcher MIGHT pitch in 4 or 5 of 12 games in the CS and DS, their value is elevated in the Post Season.
“The yankee’s near term goal is to have a 5 man rotation in which ever member is a #1 or #2 starter. That’s why they keep drafting pitching.”
Well, this is a wet dream for every team but I believe you are wrong. It is easier to project a position player then a pitcher. Usually the real position studs in the draft are gone by the first 20 picks, none of which go to the Yankees. The Yankee’s top draft picks are USUALLY pitchers who are high risk/high reward guys, who ususally fall LOWER in the draft (where the Yanks can pick them up) because of signability or health reasons.
This is how that got Joba, Brackman and a number of others. There guys did NOT get picked in the first 20 or even 50 because of injury problems (Joba was weight, lack of experience and other recent success). The Hamiltons, Uptons and stud hitters are simply GONE by the time the Yankees pick comes up. The Yankees draft MOSTLY pitchers because they can AFFORD the RISK and might get rewarded with a stud. It is a smart way for a rich team with consistantly low draft picks to go.
“But that’s not going to be enough to compete in the AL east – not with the talent boston and Tampa have.”
Again— EVERYBODY wants an Ace. And an Ace DOES have excellerated value during the PS. However, who was our Ace in the dynasty Years? And Boston? Want has better ERA+ numbers then Beckett (with a crappies defense). Dice-K is looking good this team (Beckett’s ERA this year is 4.34, 26th in the AL, behind Wang, Pettitte and Moose).
“They need a new model for how they play. A paradigm shift.
That’s pitching first. CC is the next piece to make that happen.”
This is true. However, the Yankees prime issue is age and a ‘behind’ farm system. They hve targeted STUD batters, but turned a blind eye to defense. They have ALWAYS TRIED to get pitching (RJ, Weaver, Pavano, Vasquez, Jose Contreras, etc.) but they have been unlucky. This year, in ERA:
1 Toronto 3.63: 7th place (of 14), poor offense and Injuries
2 TampaBay 3.69: 2st place (of 14), but playing WAY over their pathag record
3 Oakland 3.78: 12th place (of 14), terrible offense
4 WhiteSox 3.85: 4th place (of 14), 3rd in AL in OPS
5 LA Angels 3.89: 1st place (of 14), 3rd in AL in OPS6 Boston 124 71 53 3.93 36 5 12 1102.2 1041 481 523 431 901 .249
7 NY Yankees 124 66 58 4.24 31 1 10 1106.0 1122 521 554 378 879 .265
8 Minnesota 123 70 53 4.29
I understand what you’re saying, G Love, but the Yankees did not make that trade for he-who shall reamain nameless (to me, anyway, lol) because they were thinking beyond this year (forget the $$$). We’ve been through this before and I truly don’t want to rehash this, but I honestly do not think the Yankees would trade Phil for you-know-who now. Do you think they didn’t realize there would be struggles? In any case, Phil only had a few starts early this year and I think he must have been somehow affected by the beginnings of his injury (despite what he says). Up until his dead arm yesterday, he’s been throwing much better than at any point even last year.
Clearly, there is split among fans as to how good Phil is going to be. I still believe in him because I think we simply have not seen him at his best……and he’s still very young. We just have to be patient.
Looking back, I agree about putting Ian in the rotation after only 3 starts; that was not a wise decision.
I agree about the draft. Poor job at the top of the draft by Oppenhiemer and his scouts. Putting all their eggs in 1 basket (Cole) was a mistake. Why not Tim Melville in the supplemental round? Why do thet always seem to take pitchers that are hurt and need surgery? Jeremy Bleich being the latest. Now they lose him for a full year if he needs TJ surgery. Melville would have eased the sting of losing Cole. Did a better job in later rounds securing some high ceiling talents (Brett Marshall, Garrison Lassiter, DJ Mitchell, Kyle Higashitota). Need to do a better job with thes extra picks next year.