Clearly, there is split among fans as to how good Phil is going to be. I still believe in him because I think we simply have not seen him at his best……and he’s still very young. We just have to be patient.

Looking back, I agree about putting Ian in the rotation after only 3 starts; that was not a wise decision.

Winshares 04 05 06 07 08 Tot50% more Winshares then CC. Note that ARod has been worth 44% more Winshares then Santana. Add in injury posibility and aging, and you decide who is worth more, Tex or CC. A stud position players is ALWAYS worth more then a Pitcher, simply because a Pitcher only participates in 1 of 5 games during the season. However, because a Pitcher MIGHT pitch in 4 or 5 of 12 games in the CS and DS, their value is elevated in the Post Season.

“The yankee’s near term goal is to have a 5 man rotation in which ever member is a #1 or #2 starter. That’s why they keep drafting pitching.”

Well, this is a wet dream for every team but I believe you are wrong. It is easier to project a position player then a pitcher. Usually the real position studs in the draft are gone by the first 20 picks, none of which go to the Yankees. The Yankee’s top draft picks are USUALLY pitchers who are high risk/high reward guys, who ususally fall LOWER in the draft (where the Yanks can pick them up) because of signability or health reasons.

This is how that got Joba, Brackman and a number of others. There guys did NOT get picked in the first 20 or even 50 because of injury problems (Joba was weight, lack of experience and other recent success). The Hamiltons, Uptons and stud hitters are simply GONE by the time the Yankees pick comes up. The Yankees draft MOSTLY pitchers because they can AFFORD the RISK and might get rewarded with a stud. It is a smart way for a rich team with consistantly low draft picks to go.

“But that’s not going to be enough to compete in the AL east – not with the talent boston and Tampa have.”
Again— EVERYBODY wants an Ace. And an Ace DOES have excellerated value during the PS. However, who was our Ace in the dynasty Years? And Boston? Want has better ERA+ numbers then Beckett (with a crappies defense). Dice-K is looking good this team (Beckett’s ERA this year is 4.34, 26th in the AL, behind Wang, Pettitte and Moose).

“They need a new model for how they play. A paradigm shift.
That’s pitching first. CC is the next piece to make that happen.”

This is true. However, the Yankees prime issue is age and a ‘behind’ farm system. They hve targeted STUD batters, but turned a blind eye to defense. They have ALWAYS TRIED to get pitching (RJ, Weaver, Pavano, Vasquez, Jose Contreras, etc.) but they have been unlucky. This year, in ERA:

1 Toronto 3.63: 7th place (of 14), poor offense and Injuries
2 TampaBay 3.69: 2st place (of 14), but playing WAY over their pathag record
3 Oakland 3.78: 12th place (of 14), terrible offense
4 WhiteSox 3.85: 4th place (of 14), 3rd in AL in OPS
5 LA Angels 3.89: 1st place (of 14), 3rd in AL in OPS6 Boston 124 71 53 3.93 36 5 12 1102.2 1041 481 523 431 901 .249
7 NY Yankees 124 66 58 4.24 31 1 10 1106.0 1122 521 554 378 879 .265
8 Minnesota 123 70 53 4.29

It’s not that I’m not a fan of Hughes. I like him. But I don’t like him enough to have him be the reason we don’t trade for a Cy Young award winner under 30.

That’s old news and I think if the Yankees had the chance to do that deal again, they would do it knowing what they know now.

It’s not that I’m anti-Hughes. I’m pro-Yankees. I believed in my heart that this team needed an ace #1 starter to pair with Wang, Pettite and whoever else was in the rotation this spring.

I did not feel that Hughes was ready for that. I was at the playoff game he helped win against Cleveland last year and I cheered like Hell for him, but I never thought for a second that he was ready to anchor this rotation yet.

As for Kennedy, I don’t believe in overrating Sept. callups. A lot of teams mail it in, a lot of players are thinking of vacation and a lot of minor league hitters who should be in AAA are up in the lineups.

Kennedy had a nice Sept. run, but there was no way he should have been named a member of this rotation in the off season. That was just plain stupid and it was a Cashman ego move.

That was Cashman playing Theo. Him and Theo palled around all winter and talked up how they had the prospects to not need the starters from other teams.

Turns out only Lester was ready. They both were wrong more than they were right about their young starters.

At this point with no Johan, Haren or CC available via trade (and I mean young established top of the rotation starter) you can’t trade Hughes.

Unless Toronto loses it’s mind and puts Hallyday on the block, then you trade him.

But now, we’ve made our bed with him and we have to see it through.

I’m not as optimistic as most of you about him, but I hope he surprises me and does well.

Kennedy is also young and he could still be a #4 pitcher – that’s still pretty good. You need those guys in your rotation. He’s a guy you could deal for a decent package if so inclined, but there’s hardly a moral imperative for the Yankees to do so. They don’t trade guys they feel are really that good, so if they end up holding onto Kennedy, then that says something.

I’m all for the farm system, but I can’t believe the fascination with prospects who in most cases will never help/make the big club and who most of which will never wear a Yankee uniform.

I believe you keep the cream of the crop (the Joba’s, Jeter’s of the world), identify them early and trade the rest to fill holes on your club.

A lot more people here think we should be developing 4-5 starters in the minors. I think if a guy projects as a 4-5, trade him to some loser team that would overpay for a back end arm that may or may not pan out. If a guy is projecting as a back end of the rotation arm, that means there’s just as much chance he won’t make it in the show than there is he will.

Cashman made a great move this season trading what he did for Nady/Marte. That’s the kind of deals I hope we see over the off season. Deals that help the big club for years to come by trading prospects who we can live with dealing.

Look at this season alone — Sidney Ponson, who most of the people on this blog were ready to burn at the stake when he was signed turned out to be a good piece of the rotation, a piece I might add that should be brought back instead of promising Hughes/Kennedy a spot next year.

You don’t develop your whole team in the minors. You need to make trades, signings and not fall in love with your prospects to the point that you won’t/can’t make deals.

Clearly, you develop a Joba or this Melancon kid who has sky rocketed through the system, you hang on to them.

You don’t hang on to all of them though.

I was vocal from the second it became known Johan was on the block that we make the deal. We didn’t. I think the hubris this organization showed has a lot to do with how this season played out with the kids they said they couldn’t part with.

I think the good thing about this season is Cashman, or whoever the next GM will be, won’t make the same mistake and will jump at deals for proven young top talent over guys who haven’t proved anything other than in very small spurts.

Pat,

He really would have. Add him to Betances and Brackman. That would have been something. One of those 3 would have worked out. That’s why Gammons sounded like he was going to cry when they drafted cole. He knew how good the kid was.

By the way – I think you’ll enjoy this if you haven’t seen it. It’s an interview with Kyle Higashioka. Sounds like a very nice kid. In the interview he talks about how good Cole is (caught his once).

Kyle is have a very good season in GCL ball.

http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/20.....igashioka/

Compare Halladay to Joba because that is the kind of stuff he has.

Hughes doesn’t have Halladay’s stuff. He’s not half the pitcher he is.

You are making it harder for him by even suggesting he is in that ballpark as a pitcher.