Almost famous
-
- August
- 21
Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy and Clay Buchholz are 2-17 with a 7.52 ERA. They’ve thrown only 137.2 innings.
Buchholz was optioned down to Double-A last night and Hughes may be passed over for Carl Pavano. It would be interesting to get those three guys together and talk about the burden of expectations.
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on Thursday, August 21st, 2008 at 12:25 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Those numbers are close to unbelievable, that they could have been SO awful… (And I can’t help but wish they kept Buchholz in the rotation
)
That’s life for many young pitchers. Kennedy will never be anything more than ordinary, but the other two will come around with age and experience.
so much for young talent at least buccholz has a ring and a room full of stolen laptops
Joba is an anomaly. It’s so rare to see a kid come up with that kind of confidence and be able to back it up.
I think kids like Hughes, Kennedy & Bucholz are hurt by the business side of the game. “Take the time you need to develop …. as long as it’s right now. We need a return on our investment”. It’s not their fault that teams are thowing huge amounts of money at them before they’ve ever pitched in the Minors/Majors.
At least Buchholz has a ring and a no hitter. IPK has shown us nothing accept a poor attitude and Phil is constantly injured.
“burden of expectations”
yeah, poor babies. 1st round draft picks. huge bonuses. i feel so bad for them.
and buchholz is dating a porn star to boot.
What could they possibly say?
It’s tough and we’ll keep trying to succeed.
Well maybe IPK might say something different but is their lack of success in the bigs so far such a surprise. What’s far more shocking IMO is the Yank brass penciling those guys in in March and expecting them to just immediately contribute. It’s like suddenly somebody just woke up, saw 3 Joba’s and fell back asleep. Joba’s come once a decade if you are lucky not 3 times a season. Somebody should be held accountable for this season. I still think they needed to protect their 200 mil investment.
Maybe they will come around and maybe they won’t.
That’s the thing with young pitchers…...you never really know about them until you see how they handle adversity.
There isn’t a team in the game that has a handle on that when it comes to evaluating young pitchers. Or, young players in general.
Its not like Jacoby Ellsbury has blossomed into an all star this year. Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera have also taken major steps back this year. Its the up and down nature of dealing with young players.
Some guys, especially in high pressure markets like NY and Boston, never overcome early failure.
Others use it as fuel and get better.
Whether you are a fan of young pitchers or not, NOBODY in the game could have predicted those numbers for Hughes, Kennedy and Buchholz at the start of the season.
Also, all 3 had time on the DL.
Its why teams overpay for free agents. There is a track record of success at the ML level that gives them a certain surety when making significant investments on players.
Obviously, going that route is also not without failure. See Carl Pavano and Matt Clement as examples.
Bottom line, you can play with stats, projections and opinions about players until the sun sets. Until you put them out on the field and see how they handle success and failure, its all one big crapshoot.
Phil will be named the starter, mark my words!
well in the beginning of the 2007 season the daily news had two pitchers on the front page of the special sports pullout. One was Phill Hughes and the other was Mike Pelfery … we know today that the mets have a good pitcher in pelfery and the yanks have a guy who has proven nothing! WHEN SOMEONE GETTS SKIPPED BY CARL PAVANO , THAT TELLS ME SOMETHING!!
why has pete given up on hughes, why? i want to see hughes back just to prove people wrong like pete and espn guys that he has got stuff.
IPK never had the best stuff, but Phil will be back and will be dominant. how can you forget when he came in to relieve clemmens in the alds last year. he shut them down and gave the yankees a chance. this year, his vision was bad plus he got hurt. besides his last start, which he was battling a cold, he’s been shutting everyone down.
oh and he had a no hitter going in texas before he got hurt. i have faith in phil and cant wait to see him back.
Maybe Buchholz will have to go back to his old career… Laptop Larcenist.
also, the only thing im anxious to see IF phil gets the pass, i would be very interested to see what pudge does with pavano. he caught him when he had his best year in the majors, so i guess we’ll see what happens. i still rather see phil get the nod
Yeah Washburn has pitched like expected terribley since he did not get picked up.. where are all those losers that wanted the yanks to overpay for at best a 5th starter?
come out all you whiners who were begging to pick up this bad pitcher…
I still think Hughes will be very good, Kennedy that is a whole other story..
Yeah Bucholtz another over hyped Sux rookie like ; ellsbury, hansen, and many many others..
I dont see what relevance the no-hitter is…Clay completed a no-no…
Off topic from last thread
These next 5 weeks are going to be like watching a season of 24. Everyday will end wondering if Jack will finally die/Yankees. Wondering how they are going to get out of it this jam.
With Beckett and Wakefield hurt. Im back on the life bandwagon. Till the 24th hour ends. I will continue to think that it is a right for the Yankees to be in the playoffs. Some way Some how, we will get in. Stay tuned.
“so much for young talent at least buccholz has a ring and a room full of stolen laptops”
Harry K.
I like your humor!
Is there a tangible difference between Kennedy and Igawa besides the hand they throw from?
All the pitching is a crapshoot, that’s why guys like Pettit, and Moose are important to bring back, they’ve been here and performed with success.
Why not try the youthful pitcher’s, what choice did Cash have, he tried so called proven “FA” picher’s, it didn’t work, Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano…
David Ortiz didn’t steal your cheeseburger this time?
Let’s not get too carried away with Joba. He showed flashes this year and has certainly pitched better than Buchholz, Kennedy and Hughes. On the surface, he looks to be the guy that can emerge and be the best of the bunch.
However, he also came up lame. A lot of pitching is being able to make your starts. Its a big part of the game. It may sound harsh to some of you but, Joba isn’t going to be able to pitch 100 innings this year. That’s not “progress”. That means, he is on an innings limit again next year and that throws the rotation plans of the Yankees for 2009 off track once again.
In other words, his development also hasn’t gone according to form.
There is also this “little” (I say sarcastically) question about his health. Unless of course, you really believe all he has is “rotator cuff tendinitis”.
Can his shoulder hold up under a starters workload? Will he, like Papelbon, have to be put back in the bullpen to better protect his health?
We don’t know the answers to those questions at this time.
In the end, both the Yankees and Red Sox rushed their young guys to the bigs before they were ready and all of them failed. Failed to stay healthy and (with the exception of Joba) failed to produce any positive results.
I think both organizations will have to review how they are handling their young pitchers. If they were to be graded, both teams would receieve an “F” grade for their work this year.
I hope the Yankees learned from their mistakes.Kennedy has only thrown 150 innings in the minors and Hughes is still 21.Whats the rush.Even Joba was rushed into the rotation.
If Cashman can’t get good free agents like starting pitchers then these young guys will be rushed and hurt.Wonder if anyone has those stupid “Save The big Three” T-Shirts.
The Late 90’s teams had great farm systems but also great free agents.
stuart it looks like he’s tanking it to get them to release him. Washburn wanted out of Seattle and the management led him to believe he would be out so he got his stock up I think it was 10 games in a row were he gave more than acceptable outings then after the waiver pull back he just tanked it.
“Is there a tangible difference between Kennedy and Igawa besides the hand they throw from?”
Igawa actually throws harder.
With apologies to Johnny Cash:
CASH-MAN COMES AROUND
And I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder: One of the four starters saying: “Come and see.†And I saw. And behold, a white horse.
There’s a Cash-man goin’ ’round takin’ names. An’ he decides who to throw and who to flame. Everybody won’t be treated all the same. There’ll be a golden ladder reaching down. When Cash-man comes around.
The hairs on your arm will stand up. At the terror in each pitch and in each pop-up. Will you pitch, have another injury, or “hiccup?†Or disappear into the pitcher’s mound. When Cash-man comes around.
Hear Giambi, hear Mussina. One hundred million fans a groanin’. Multitudes are marching to Freddy Sez’ little kettle drum. Eiland’s callin’, Carl is cryin’. Tabata’s gone an’ Ponson’s flyin’. It’s George and Hank and Hal’s Kingdom come.
And the whirlwind is in the bullpen. The rookies are all trimming their mitts. The whirlwind is in the bullpen. It’s hard for Carl to kick against the pricks.
Till playoff time, no Shalam, no Shalom. Then the Joe Girardi will call his chickens home. The Red Sox will bow down before the Yankee throne. And at his feet they’ll give up the golden crown. When Cash-man comes around.
Whoever is uninjured, let him be uninjured still. Whoever is hot at the plate, let him be hot at the plate still. Whoever is Manny, let him be Manny still. Listen to the lineup long written down, When Cash-man comes around.
Hear the Joba, hear the Damon. Two hundred million dollars wastin’. Multitudes are marchin’ to Freddie Sez’ little kettle drum. Roll callin’, bleacher creatures. Some are drunk an’ some are pukin’. It’s Pavano’s and Zambrano’s Kingdom come.
And Suzyn Waldman is in the press box. Jon Sterling is trimming his wick. Goodness Gracious! She’s in the press box. It’s hard for Carl to kick against the pricks.
In measured hundred-millions and penny pound. When Cash-man comes around.
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four starters, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Carl. And Hell followed with him.
Al,
Did you check out Mike Pelfery’s early start with the Mets? He started his career 0-6 and was taken out of the rotation.
He too, had his early problems. He wasn’t an early success.
You have to be willing to ride it out with young pitchers. Its going to be a roller coaster as they learn their way in the game.
“The Late 90’s teams had great farm systems but also great free agents.”
Exactly. Cash likes to think that he can have a HOF line-up and a Scranton rotation.
By the start of the 09 season. The nickname will be changed from GENERATION TREY to the dynamic duo or maybe thunder and lightning. Kennedy is gone.
SJ, Excellent point.
Performance-wise, Joba has been excellent. However, progression-wise, he has remained stagnant or even taken a step back. He has only thrown 89 innings this year which means we have the same problem next yr of trying to conserve his innings. He will probably have to start in the pen again. And this injury is a red-flag because he does have health concerns.
That is why it is imperative we do our best to sign CC and have 4 reliable starters with no innings limits or anything next season.
“Al,
Did you check out Mike Pelfery’s early start with the Mets? He started his career 0-6 and was taken out of the rotation.
He too, had his early problems. He wasn’t an early success.
You have to be willing to ride it out with young pitchers. Its going to be a roller coaster as they learn their way in the game.”
It is not the performance that concerns me it is the health issues that concern me, especially with Phil. He has proven that when 100% he can be a very effective pitcher. However he has only been 100% for about a month in his 2 year career thus far.
Hell their nickname could be Laurell and Hardy for all i care. As long as they pitch to their potential. Its all good.
SJ44
i know that but the mets did one thing differently they made him earn his spot unlike the yanks that at first put in Huges and IPK in the starting 5 this season.
“we know today that the mets have a good pitcher in pelfery and the yanks have a guy who has proven nothing!”
Last September, the Mets could have said the same thing about the two pitchers (with Hughes being the “good pitcher”).
Young pitchers have ups and downs. Also, let’s not forget that Pelfrey is two and a half years older than Hughes.
Al Arodien
It’s not like Pelfrey hasn’t logged some frequent flier miles between NY and New Orleans.
Have a little patience with Hughes, he’s barely 22 years old.
“By the start of the 09 season. The nickname will be changed from GENERATION TREY to the dynamic duo or maybe thunder and lightning. Kennedy is gone.”
I absolutely agree. IPK was over-hyped just to complete the trio idea that the media had concocted. Yes his AAA numbers were tremendous but so are a lot of guys AAA numbers. Following that logic Shelley Duncan is Mark Mcgwire, Kei Igawa is Sandy Koufax and Brett Gardner is Rickey Henderson. However as we’ve all seen AAA numbers don’t always translate. Joba and Phil(If he can get healthy) are the keepers get whatever you can for Alfred E Newman.
How exactly did “rushing” Phil Hughes give him a broken rib? Or Ian Kennedy a strained lat dorsi muscle (I think that’s the injury he had)? Or Joba (who is not at his pitch limit-for-age) get his rotator cuff tendonitis? Why wouldn’t snapping off a curve ball in Scranton, Pawtucket, or Rochester be less stressful on a young arm? I can see where moving some young guy up before they have enough control or secondary pitches might get them hit harder in the bigs than in AAA, but the inuuries?
The Mets don’t seem to be having any problems lately with Mike Pelfrey, and he started this year, what, 2 – 7? Now, they’re talking about him being no.2 after Santana in the pecking order.
SJ and others,
If Joba has to start all over in the pen and it looks like he will. Do we maybe get C.C. and maybe go after a pitcher that has upside/young like Owings? I think he was dangled in the trading deadline. If not. Who else could we go after? When does Vazques become a free agent?
al arodien,
Hughes pitched great over the final 6 weeks of last year, plus he won a playoff game. I think he earned his spot in the starting five.
britton is lucky that our minor league affiliate is 90 minutes away by train in Scranton.
imagine if he had to fly to New Orleans everytime he was optioned out like Mets prospects do?
Even if they don’t sign CC (which would be a mistake if they don’t, IMO), they need a top end starting pitcher to add to the rotation in the off-season to go along with Wang, Pettitte and Moose.
I still maintain bringing back Pettitte and Moose is as important as anything the Yankees do in the off-season. They can’t go into next season with 3 young guys in the rotation. Been there, don’t that, and it failed. Don’t repeat the same mistake again next season.
What’s ironic about all the talk about young pitching is, there was this lone voice in the woods in March warning about not depending too much on young pitchers. He talked about how much pressure there is on them both physically and emotionally and nobody knows how they will handle that.
Critics said he was, “bitter” and “just afraid of losing his job” and dismissed everything he had to say.
That person was Mike Mussina. Turns out, he was absolutely correct in his assessments.
Not only that, he comes out and becomes one of the 4 best starting pitchers in the AL at 39 years old.
In this age of radar guns, unamed “sources, scouts, and pitching “gurus”, one would be smart to listen to the words of a guy who has been in the trenches and has had success.
Moose knows what he is talking about when it comes to pitching.
there’s very little difference between toronto and tampa bay in runs differential yet a big gap in the standings.
the angels do not have a run differntial you’d expect with their record .
are maddon and sciosa doing something different than other teams to get a better record than you’d expect with their run differentials?
Owings is going to Cincinnati as part of the Dunn deal. At this point in his career, he is more hitter than pitcher. He has really fallen off the map as a pitcher.
If they don’t sign CC? AJ Burnett could be the next guy up in the pecking order. Just a guess on my part.
Teams are loathe to give up on their high ceiling young pitchers. They know how expensive it is to get pitching in free agency. I don’t see a lot of teams dealing their young arms to the Yankees unless they get a big bounty in return.
Look at the bright side; if Hughes comes up and does well and Joba recovers and gets back in the rotation and this team makes the playoffs these two kids will be fresh as daisies and raring to go in the post season.
Ok Snack’ems is on now.
pat ,Clay Buchholz stole my laptop ;
I am not saying that i dont have patience , But i have a problem how the yanks pamperd those two in the begining and didnt make them earn there jobs. ( look at hughes he even opened his own blog like he will be for the next 20 years a yank , not only did he close his blog they took away is first number)
Which team does handle it young pitchers well?
I think it has to do with luck of the draw as much as with the system.
The Yankees have been in my opinion very systematic in their approach, do not ramp up innings etc. To me it is similar to the way the Red Sox handle their prospects.
Yet as has been mentioned both teams young pitchers have been injured and/or ineffective. Tampa lost one of their prized arm to the knife of TJ. Toronto burns through pitchers. Arizona has now given up on Nippert, Ohlendorf and Owings. Florida has problems keeping their pitchers healthy. Oakland builds em then sells em.
Every team will hit on some guys but will also lose an equivalent or greater amount due to physical difficulties of pitching.
You need to give these guys time. It took Lester a couple of years and cancer to become the pitcher he is this year. It took Beckett 5-6 years before he came to the Red Sox and became a work horse and now his season and career might be in jeopardy. Give Hughes, Bucholz and Joba the same few years.
There is some question that Owings will be traded to the Reds becuase of his shoulder injury.
Perhaps Owings should go the Ankiel route? He’s shown he can hit major league pitching, although its been a very small sample size. In 112 AB’s Owings is .313/.350/.545. Thats damn good if he can keep it up over a longer period of time.
If the Yankees can’t get CC I’d take Sheets over Burnett.
It was idiocy to guarantee a spot in the rotation to Kennedy anyway… How did he think that a soft tosser with 3 ML starts was good enough to be the #4 starter of the Yankees? And they penciled Hughes into the #3 spot despite the fact he was only going to be able to pitch 140 innings.
Next year, we need 4 reliable starters. Whether that’s two of CC/Sheets/Brunett along with Wang and Andy/Moose, or one of the big free agents along with Wang and BOTH Andy and Moose. Joba/Hughes have too many health concerns and innings limits to both be in the rotation.
The transition year is over and it flopped. Everyone regressed tremendously or stayed right where they were. New stadium, $80+ mil off the payroll… the time to win is now.
I find it hard to believe if Joba is approaching his innings limit next August, that the Yanks will pull him out of the rotation. Imagine next year the Yanks in a tough division race and there is a game at Fenway in late August and the Yanks option Joba to SWB and bring up Rasner/Igawa. I can only imagine the Hank quotes and fan backlash.
Programming note: GI Joe w. Chubsy Wubsy at 5 PM
“Which team does handle it young pitchers well?”
the twins seem to do a good job, though liriano had problems.
then again he was from another organization.
i doubt they use more technology. i think they use more baseball common sense. they tend to let the pitchers develop longer at triple a and give them small doses of the big leagues over a few years before letting them stay up for good.
“If the Yankees can’t get CC I’d take Sheets over Burnett.”
My pecking order
C.C.
Burnett
Harden(thought he was a free agent after the year)
Sheets(struggling for the past month)
Pavano(trying to keep a straight face while typing that)
al arodien
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. The Yankees were hoping the kids would pay immediate dividends based on a small sample size. It didn’t work how they wanted so they went to plan B.
The cautionary tale- beware of passing judgements based on small sample size.
FYI: Hughes still has his own blog. It’s just on a different server now.
Yeah AZ Four, just throw money at all the problems and they will go away. Put a stop to all this “youth movement” garbage and send away the young players and replace them with the big name veterans that will be the only reason any tickets are sold in the new Stadium. That sounds like a great idea, and it has worked so well for the past 8 years or so.
Al,
Joba is probably on the same innings limit next year that he was on this year. Around 140 innings. I wouldn’t be surprised if he started for half the year then was put back into the bullpen for the second half. 16 starts (about half a season) averaging 6 IP/start is 96 innings. Half a season out of the bullpen would probably be around 40 so it makes sense. This way he wouldn’t have to transition to starting mid-season and he’d stay under the innings limit. Then in spring of 2010 he’d just have to build up arm strength and begin as a starter again.
I hate to screw around with him in the bullpen again but the only other options are to risk a major injury or put him in the minors.
Who else were they going to put into the rotation this year? Jeff Karstens? Darrel Rasner? Alan Horne?
The reality is, Phil Hughes earned his spot into the rotation based on his work last year. Kennedy? He was the fifth starter. The season isn’t hinging on the fifth starter. Ineffective fifth starters are replaced all the time.
The Yankees felt they had a 968 run offense coming back this year and the offense would carry them early while the young pitchers took their lumps.
What they didn’t figure was, Posada getting hurt early and being no factor this year. Arod and Jeter getting hurt and missing games. Matsui going down for 2 months. Cano and Cabrera falling off the map this year. The entire offense struggling all year with RISP.
Really, how could they have envisioned the above?
All of that has happened and we aren’t even talking about Hughes and Kennedy’s struggles and Wang going down for the year in June.
The fact is, the pitching isn’t the problem. Its the offense.
Rasner pitched a helluva game the other night and lost because they couldn’t hit. Ponson has pitched very well. Joba had a series of no decisions because the Yankees couldn’t score runs. Same for Pettitte.
The team was built on offense and the offense hasn’t produced. That has a trickle down effect on the entire team.
When that happens pitchers press and try to be too fine. Or, they strain too much making pitches (which is how Chamberlain hurt his bicep tendon) because they are pressing since they have little offensive support.
While Hughes and Kennedy have struggled, the offense hasn’t been good. If it was just off 10% from last year, they are in the playoffs.
Instead, they are off almost 30%, more with RISP, something NOBODY could have predicted at the start the year, and they are currently on the outside looking in for a playoff spot.
OK, seperate note: anyone watching this Olympics “Handball”? What the heck is that? feels like a basketball/soccer combo…very weird.
According to Suzyn Waldman, Burnett has already started politicking with the NY press. He seems to be dreaming in Pinstripes. Not a bad dream at all.
Hey can Owings play 1st.
Don’t be shocked if they don’t go after anyone.
I don’t trust this FO.
It might be another “Transition year” since this one really wasn’t one.
I don’t think Harden is a true free agent, either he has a player option or the Cubs can pick up an option or something like that.
“I still maintain bringing back Pettitte and Moose is as important as anything the Yankees do in the off-season. They can’t go into next season with 3 young guys in the rotation. Been there, don’t that, and it failed. Don’t repeat the same mistake again next season.”
i think people forget that there are other pitchers who are available this offseason who could provide just as much production, if not more, albeit with a longer term commitment than what you get from Pettitte and Moose.
Sheets, Sabathia and Burnett are the big names, but guys like Jon Garland and Oliver Perez are having quality seasons. Garland is prob the best option for Moose insurance and prob should be looked at as an option for the rotation, anyway. i know he’s a SoCal guy, but if the Angels let him walk, he’s a good fit.
Other concerning questions for 09
Who’s on first?
Whats in center?
Whens at catcher?
Thoughts?
Laroche? Dejesus? Alphabet? Melky take 3? Flash?
“Harden(thought he was a free agent after the year)”
Not a FA.
CC, Burnett, Wang, Pettit, Moose..hughes, joba, giese, robertson, veras, ramirez, bruney, mo
not bad …......
“I don’t think Harden is a true free agent, either he has a player option or the Cubs can pick up an option or something like that.”
yeah, team option. thats why it made sense to trade for him if he was healthy.
“Al,
Joba is probably on the same innings limit next year that he was on this year. Around 140 innings. I wouldn’t be surprised if he started for half the year then was put back into the bullpen for the second half. 16 starts (about half a season) averaging 6 IP/start is 96 innings. Half a season out of the bullpen would probably be around 40 so it makes sense. This way he wouldn’t have to transition to starting mid-season and he’d stay under the innings limit. Then in spring of 2010 he’d just have to build up arm strength and begin as a starter again.
I hate to screw around with him in the bullpen again but the only other options are to risk a major injury or put him in the minors.”
How silly. Why not increase the innings limit to 160-180. At this rate he’ll be 25 before he can go 200 innings.
LaRoche gets a big thumbs-down for first base. Guy is as inconsistent as they come, and he doesn’t strike me as any kind of a fiery, wants-to-win-every-night competitor.
you huys REALLY want Burnett in your rotation ?
REALLYYYY, every month hes on the DL with another freak injury. I dont wanna take the chance again after Carl Pavano.
yeah andrew because hughes and kennedy proved so much this year.
the “veterans” have done far more than the kids, sans joba.
which would you rather have?
cc, sheets/brunett/mussina, wang, pettitte/mussina, joba
or
wang, pettitte/mussina, hughes, joba, kennedy
we’re not talking about washed up NL pitchers like brown and randy, sabathia is a left handed ace in his prime who dominated the AL.
I think its impossible to predict who will be next year’s CF or 1B. Most likely whoever is playing in those positions will be acquired through trade. Its really hard for us to know what players will be available, what their price is, if Cashman wants that player, etc
SJ we were jotting down a few things last night when no one was on.
Jeter .250/.331/.329
Arod .256/.342/.488
Damon .263/.363/.380
Cano .196/.244/.270
Stach .172/.298/.306
There is only one guy that can hit his weight vs power pitchers in this lineup consistantly at a 08′ clip of .333/.408/.522 that belongs to Bobby Abreu. Matsui is the other one but .330/.432/.420 is not expected for him after his DL stint. And think of what the Orioles will trot against us. Cabrera, Guthrie these are the types of SP that Yankees can’t touch if thier life depended on it.
A poster came w/ this jaw dropping stat info of Yankees vs power pitchers
Power pitchers vs. NYY this season
Beckett – 3-1, 3.25 ERA (27 IP, 20 Ks)
Brunett – 3-0; 1.63 ERA (22 IP, 24 Ks)
E. Santana – 1-0; 0 ERA (8 IP, 8 Ks)
Halladay – 2-1; 2.05 ERA (22 IP, 14 Ks) (That win was a Philip Hughes start)
Greinke – 1-1; 1.63 ERA (19.1 IP, 13 Ks)
Sabathia – 0-1; 1.50 ERA (8 IP, 8 Ks)
Kazmir – 1-1; 1.64 ERA (11 IP, 12 Ks)
Lester – 2-0; 1.13 ERA (16 IP, 16 Ks)
Cueto – 0-1; 1.80 ERA (5 IP, 7 Ks)
J. Santana – 1-1; 4.61 ERA (13.2 IP, 13 Ks)
Cabrera – 3-0; 3.05 ERA (20 IP, 9 Ks)
Shields – 0-2; 2.92 ERA (12.1 IP, 11 Ks)
Volquez – 1-0; 2.57 ERA (7 IP, 5 Ks)
C. Lee – 1-0; 0.00 ERA (7 IP, 7 Ks)
Gallagher – 0-0; 3.60 ERA (5 IP, 7 Ks)
Oswalt – 0-1; 4.76 ERA (5 IP, 6 Ks)
McGowen – 0-0; 5.56 ERA
E. Jackson – 1-1; 2.59 ERA (24 IP, 16 Ks)
O. Perez – 2-0; 1.84 ERA (16 IP, 14 Ks)
Guhtrie – 1-1; 2.70 ERA (14 IP, 9 Ks)
Lackey – 0-0; 4.76 ERA (14 IP, 9 Ks)
Peavy – 0-1; 6.75 ERA (4 IP, 4 Ks)
F. Hernandez – 0-1; 9.53 ERA (5.2 IP, 3 Ks)
Garza – 1-0; 0.00 ERA (7 IP, 3 Ks)
Power pitchers vs. NYY in 2007
E. Santana – 0-0; 27.00 ERA
Brunett – 1-0; 0.60 ERA
Halladay – 1-0; 2.38 ERA
Beckett – 2-1; 4.39 ERA
Haren – 1-0; 6.97 ERA
Lackey – 0-0; 2.38 ERA
Cain – 0-1; 9.00 ERA
McGowen – 2-2; 5.25 ERA
Maine – 0-1; 9.00 ERA
Carmona – 0-1; 4.15 ERA
Perez – 2-0; 1.20 ERA
Webb – 0-1; 3.86 ERA
D. Cabrera – 1-3; 6.67 ERA
Greinke – 0-0; 11.05 ERA
Shields – 0-2; 14.46 ERA
Meche (if he counts) – 0-2; 6.75 ERA
Matsuzaka – 2-1; 6.12 ERA
Gutrie – 1-0; 5.29 ERA
E. Jackson – 1-1; 5.87 ERA
Marcum – 0-2; 5.59 ERA
Damon
Jeter
Hideki
Arod
Posada
X
Cano
these guys will be here no sure who else, 1B, OF, utility
“According to Suzyn Waldman, Burnett has already started politicking with the NY press. He seems to be dreaming in Pinstripes. Not a bad dream at all.”
Can I get a source on this it seems very interesting. I am sure Burnett would love to be in a rotation including CC, Wang and Joba. Anyone who watched Tuesdays game knows what this guy can do when hes on. I say give him a shot but don’t go more than 3-4 years with this guy.
“Is there a tangible difference between Kennedy and Igawa besides the hand they throw from?”
yeah, there’s about $43,000,000 worth of differnece!
I say give him a shot but don’t go more than 3-4 years with this guy.
Take a pay cut and we’ll do it.
Ovaltine is preeching the deepness of this lineup again. I really don’t know what deepness he is talking about.
Timothy,
I still believe one of Damon or Matsui will not be here next year.
Al from bk,
I mentioned this tuesday. They had an interview a few years back with Mr.Dl,Beckett and Burnett, they asked them who had the best stuff on the staff. They all said Burnett. If only he can avoid being Pavanoed every year.
“Ovaltine is preeching the deepness of this lineup again. I really don’t know what deepness he is talking about.”
The deep hole they put the team in heading into the last month-plus of the season.
Wow, AA for Clay? It happens – he’s still going to be a very fine pitcher. Wonder what all those so-called experts are saying, though. My guess is they’re going to remain silent. I used to worry what these experts said about Phil, but now? I just want Phil to pitch well and show himself to be the kind of pitcher we know he can; the rest will take care of itself.
The problem with Phil has been the injuries. I think Phil was always confident, but the injuries have robbed him of that confidence, not to mention precious developmental time. Physically, he appears to be better than he has in awhile; now it’s just a matter of realizing that he IS healthy. I think once he’s confident of that, he’ll come around. This kid took the mound and saved the Yankees season last year; in that packed house against the Indians, he gave the ball back to Joe Torre and said he was having fun (I cleaned it up a bit). That is precisely why he succeeded in that situation, where most rookies and many veterans would fail. That Phil from last October is still in there – he didn’t lose his talent, he didn’t lose his composure, he didn’t lose his moxie, he didn’t lose his mental toughness. Phil just needs to believe that.
Brandon,
That comes with age. Your bat speed slows with age and no greenies. Also, older players tend to guess more at the plate (see Ken Griffey Jr. as the best example of that these days) and that leaves you vulnerable to heat.
When a team has trouble scoring runs, EVERYBODY presses. I don’t care who you are, you press when your team isn’t scoring runs.
That’s why we have seen so many guys chasing pitches out of the zone, running themselves out of innings on the bases, etc.
I maintain hitting with RISP is a mindset and its best to do it early in the year. Once you do, guys tend to relax because they have had success and it can carry you through the inevitable dry patches during the year.
Not having early success doing it, which this team has did not this year, just leads to everybody guessin’ and pressin’.
Ironically, the more you talk about not doing it, the more you do it. Its just one of those things in baseball.
Its why firing the hitting coach doesn’t do any good because he’s not responsible for their lack of hitting. That’s on the players.
“you huys REALLY want Burnett in your rotation ?
REALLYYYY, every month hes on the DL with another freak injury. I dont wanna take the chance again after Carl Pavano.”
Pavano couldn’t carry Burnett’s jock strap. I know his injury past is a bit troubling but this year he has thrown 170+ innings with a month to go. Burnett unlike Idle actually seems to have passion for the game.
This is a really strange season, now Steve Phillips gives us a shot at post-season, and every one else say’s it’s doubtful….
Burnett’s a risk. I like any guy who wants to pitch in NY and he’s pitched good this year but he’s no ace. And after passing on one ace last off season, they should at the very least see that passing up aces isn’t the smart or safe play.
SJ44
Joba’s shown more than “flashes” this season. I was skeptical that his performance last year could have been a “flash” but I’m sold now. And I’ll play devils’ advocate on this one so isn’t it possible his shoulder inflammation could have resulted from his unorthodox climb into the rotation. And if he really had an injury beyond what was stated, do you really think he would be throwing at all.
In retrospect, The Yanks really blew it this year in terms of developing these three. It’s no wonder a gun like Cole would have 2nd thoughts on joining this calamity.
Other concerning questions for 09
Who’s on first?
I think first should be used as another DH spot unfortunetly. I wanted an actual 1b guy but honestly I don’t think it’s going to work. There’s too many questions.
Is Posada even going to be able to catch? Will Giardi let him, he’s already shown he doesn’t want him back there.
We currently have 4 outfielders. Only Abreu is up for FA next year and there’s a chance he could come back.
Nady and Damon have both played first before.
Even if Abreu should go.. We have Matsui, Damon and Nady. I’m sure Melky or Gardner will be getting playing time.
i think when trying to work young pitchers into the rotation that one spot only should be set aside for that. for instance, the yankees would have had a spot open for hughes, joba, kennedy, and the rest of the minor league system.
once young pitchers have gone through a few years of being in that 5th spot for varying periods and when they have proven themselves at the mlb level ,then they can move to the 4th spot and stay.
if the yankees adopted this approach, they wouldn’t have fiascos like with hughes and kennedy. work young pitchers in ,but don’t count on them.
First of all, steve, the argument isn’t to rely on Hughes and Kennedy again next year and tempt what happened this year reoccurring. I was talking about the idea of overcompensating for this year by adding a bazillion free agents on long-term contracts, especially guys that are bigger question marks than sure things (Sheets, Burnett, most of the position players who are FAs). I think the consensus is that Sabathia is the #1 target and that makes sense. Plan B as AJ Burnett makes sense, but people who are calling to immediately spend all $80 million of available payroll on free agents to fill in all the holes that the roster has developed? That is not the way I hope the offseason goes.
Signing a fragile guy like Sheets to a multi-year deal for big money is a huge risk. Signing anyone is a risk, but why take multiple huge-money risks in one offseason? The Yankees have been burned on multiple long-term deals, but what, going to that same well over and over again, especially multiple times in one offseason, is the right way to go? That to me will just bring on more of the same mediocrity and disappointment that has followed the team for years now.
“Al from bk,
I mentioned this tuesday. They had an interview a few years back with Mr.Dl,Beckett and Burnett, they asked them who had the best stuff on the staff. They all said Burnett. If only he can avoid being Pavanoed every year.”
Very true. He just has to stay on the field but in fairness to him he has done it this year he might get 20 wins and his K numbers are finally on par with his stuff.
Al,
The “source” is Suzyn Waldman. That’s why the poster cited her when discussing what he has been doing.
AJ can pitch, as we all have seen. His issue is staying healthy.
If they don’t get CC, I’d make a big play for AJ. He’s pitched with success in the AL East and I think he would be a real upgrade to the staff.
Is it a gamble? EVERY pitcher you use is a gamble.
Face it, the Yankees are going to have to gamble this off-season and sign a pitcher or two. If not, its gonna be a LONG year next year.
I think first you determine if Moose and Pettitte want to come back. Why go outside the organization for 4 and 5 guys in the rotation? These two are not only veteran pitchers, but YANKEE veteran pitchers, and in my mind that counds for a lot. If either of those two decide not to come back, then you go to the next step and look at other options.
I also think if Sidney Ponson finishes up strong this month the Yankees should invite him to spring training. No one knows how next season is going to look and he and the Yankees seem to be a good match.
One thing I think is that the Yankees need to move fast, or as fast as they can, because there are going to be alot of other teams going after the same players they are.
“This is a really strange season, now Steve Phillips gives us a shot at post-season, and every one else say’s it’s doubtful….”
Crap!! Pack your bags fellas. Season is over.
“How silly. Why not increase the innings limit to 160-180. At this rate he’ll be 25 before he can go 200 innings.”
The rule followed by most intelligent executives in baseball is increasing innings limits by 30 every season. Last year Joba threw 110 innings so this year his limit was ~140. This year if he comes back he’ll probably hit 110-120 but its looking pretty likely that he won’t be back at all and will end the season under 100. I’m being generous in predicting that he’ll have a 140 IP limit next year. If you want to risk a serious injury sure let him pitch more.
The truth is, even if he had hit 140 this year he would have been on a limit in 2009. Now he will be on a limit in 2009 and 2010 and no limits in 2011. It sucks but its just the way it is. It would be incredibly foolish to try and push him (or Kennedy or Hughes) beyond a 30 IP increase.
We ask Moose and Pettit if they want to come back, to be honest I doubt either will.
So you will need 2 strong starter’s CC and Burnett IMO would be the 1st options.
If it happened that’s
CC
Burnett
Wang
you will still need another starter 1 from Joba/Hughes and another pitcher from FA market unless either Moose or Pettit.
If both Moose and Andy want to come back you really just need 1, which would be option 1 from above, but if not you need both.
“Burnett’s a risk. I like any guy who wants to pitch in NY and he’s pitched good this year but he’s no ace. And after passing on one ace last off season, they should at the very least see that passing up aces isn’t the smart or safe play.”
Obviously as fans we are all being greedy and wishing for the best FA’s. CC would be enough, however if Burnett wants to be a Yankee and CC gives us the cold shoulder the Yanks should take a chance on getting the Burnett we saw on Tuesday night.
“I also think if Sidney Ponson finishes up strong this month the Yankees should invite him to spring training. No one knows how next season is going to look and he and the Yankees seem to be a good match.”
i wouldn’t rule out Sid getting offered a ML contract this offseason by someone, which would trump a spring training invite. but if not, i’m all for inviting him to ST…
Hughes is obviously a favorite of mine but if we could get a young, stud position prospect for him, I’d trade him. Especially if we do indeed sign CC.
“Pavano couldn’t carry Burnett’s jock strap. I know his injury past is a bit troubling but this year he has thrown 170+ innings with a month to go. Burnett unlike Idle actually seems to have passion for the game.”
Granted, he has (alot) more talent than Pavano, & he seems like he wants to play & contribute, & all thats good. But that wont stop a something in his elbow from ripping or tearing. The guy had Tommy John surgery like 4 yr ago. & It usually flares up once or twice a year.
I’d like to sign him, just not for alot of money & years. Which of course, he’s expecting.
Plus, you act like he’s dominant. I’d put him behind Mussina & Pettite. Yea, he has more talent,but he also has an ERA somewhere in the 4’s. 4.51 to be exact. He’s underachieved for all the talent that he has, even when he’s healthy.
Saucy –
Yeah, probably they should offer him a contract, not just an invitation.
The 1st team to land one of the big FA, will set the tone of how the market will be as far as price, CC will get much more than Burnett.
Doreen,
Agreed. If both Moose and Andy come back, that would be the best way to go. You definitely invite Ponson back for ST. To me, that’s no brainer. He’s earned it.
You then have to prioritize which guy you are going to get. Its probably going to be between CC and AJ for a variety of reasons.
Whichever they prioritize, its a MUST they sign that pitcher. No excuses, no nothing. Get that guy in the fold.
At that point, you have options. You have enough pitching depth in the organization to be able to peel off a couple of guys and bring back a solid position player along with a good bench player.
Under this scenario, you will also have enough pitching depth in case Wang isn’t ready to start next year, or you suffer injuries in the spring.
If they decide to trade Cano, he’s another valuable chip.
However, it all starts with pitching. You rebuild from the pitching staff out. They need to have that firmed up before venturing into the other areas needed to improve the team for 2009.
True SJ, but realistically, how long should it take to see fruits of the Yankees farm system, SP wise?
I always thought the rule of thumb use to be a SP should have around 400 minor league innings in him before he was ready for the show and even then he would take his lumps in the Majors.
““This is a really strange season, now Steve P******s gives us a shot at post-season,”
The biggest moron in broadcasting just hates the Yankees and knows that anything he says always works out to be the opposite.
saucy,
What did you think about my second list from yesterday.
donny baseball
rolly fingers
the babe
albert puhol
Any make your top 10?
If we don’t get Sabathia, I would dabble with Sheets/Brunett.
Brunett does have a 1.98 career ERA vs. Boston, 2.98 carrer ERA vs. Tampa. He seems to be a guy who needs to be in a winning situation to be motivated.
If he takes a 3-4 yr deal, I think i’d do it.
if joba comes back healthy, cant they just have him make up the innings in the fall league? he could make it to 140 that way and move on next season as planned.
“Plus, you act like he’s dominant. I’d put him behind Mussina & Pettite. Yea, he has more talent,but he also has an ERA somewhere in the 4’s. 4.51 to be exact. He’s underachieved for all the talent that he has, even when he’s healthy.”
178 K’s in 171 IP no thats not dominant at all. Hold your horses on Moose he is having a career year at 39. Burnett is a dominant guy like it or not.
I hate to say it, but Boston will have some money, I would hate for them to land Burnett for their rotation.
Beckett
Lester
Burnett
Dice-K
Wake or a rookie…....
id rather go for sheets or burnett, especially if we can get them to sign a 3 year deal. no way i go 6 or 7 yrs for cc. i like him but its way too long for a pitcher at $20M+/year.
“if joba comes back healthy, cant they just have him make up the innings in the fall league? he could make it to 140 that way and move on next season as planned.”
I am glad someone else noticed this before I did. He can get to 140 in the fall league easily thats about 4-5 starts in the fall league. Next year you can proceed as planned.
“Beckett
Lester
Burnett
Dice-K
Wake or a rookie…….”
Not happening.
Honestly, I think this offseason is all about getting Sabathia. He is as sure a thing as they come and he only costs money and a draft pick. I hope the Yankees go all out to get him, I don’t want them getting outbid no matter how high they have to go. Burnett and Sheets have shown injury problems and inconsistency in the past. They are both very talented (Sheets more so IMO) but I wouldn’t really want to risk either. CC OR BUST!
Do you think CC is going to want years or $$ in his contract?
I mean and if I were the Yankees I would think this way, give him the amount he wants not the years.
I’d rather see them give him a few extra million a year over 4-5 years, than give him a 6-7 year deal and have some dead weight at the end of the contract.
And I know…with CC that will be a lot of weight.
“I hate to say it, but Boston will have some money, I would hate for them to land Burnett for their rotation.
Beckett
Lester
Burnett
Dice-K
Wake or a rookie…….”
Scarier than that would be
C.C.
Beckett
Dice
Lester
Who cares
Some rumors have Boston going after Sabathia.
Well, I’d imagine if they shut down Joba for the rest of the season, they won’t send him to fall league.
He says he feels fine, but the Yankees are being conservative with him. The Yankees have to think about next year, which is going to be a big year for the franchise. If he is healthy, you have to let him pitch. Also it is best for him to know his shoulder is fine before the long off-season, rather than having than having that linger in his mind.
Really, it hurts Hughes more than anyone else. Now, I don’t see any way they guarantee him a rotation spot next year considering Joba will be on innings limits as well. Now it is crucial for them to get 4 innings eaters in front of Joba.
“178 K’s in 171 IP no thats not dominant at all. Hold your horses on Moose he is having a career year at 39. Burnett is a dominant guy like it or not.”
178K’s in 171IP is dominant, FOR A RELIEVER. RASNER HAS ABOUT THE SAME ERA. PONSON HAS ABOUT THE SAME ERA. You would put up with just about 5 runs a game as long as he gets a strikeout or two every inning ? comee onnn
You’re being unfair to Clay Buchholz by grouping him with others like Hughes and Kennedy. Even if Buchholz has ERA of zero, the cumulative ERA for the group would still be unsightly.
Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men):
Why not, that is a possibility..
boston will be big players in the FA pitching market. they have money coming off the books as well.
i can definitely see them going for perez or brunett because theo loves yankee killers. if beckett does indeed need TJs, then i can see them going hard after CC.
S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh):
Absolutely scarier, give CC what ever he wants…...
S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh:
And scarier would be that rotation against this line-up next year….......
any official word on our American Idle ?
The only way you can justify losing CC this off-season is if he takes less money elsewhere. If that happens, you salvage it by signing Burnett.
There won’t be any discounts in free agency. AJ Burnett will get a 5 year offer from somebody. Nobody is opting out of a deal to sign a lesser deal. That’s not how free agency works.
You have big market teams like the Angels, Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers (if the McCourt’s loosen the purse strings) with money to spend this off-season.
If you think you are going to get a CC Sabathia or an AJ Burnett, or any top end FA pitcher for that matter, on a deal less than 5 years, you are crazy. Its not happening.
I agree with Patrick, the off-season really does depend on CC. He’s under 30, an ace, LH in home ballpark that is great for LH pitchers, and a solid character guy.
If the Yankees were to sign him, along with bringing back Moose and Pettitte, they would have true starting pitching depth for the first time in years.
That makes it a whole lot easier to fix the other areas of the team that need repair.
With Boston having money to spend also:
There are 4 starter’s I don’t want them to have.
1. CC
2. Burnett
3. Moose
4. Pettit
Burnett would have to take a pay cut, he can’t expect to be paid like an All Star SP when he can’t even stay healthy. I’d take a shot but at a reasonable price. 8-10 mill per yr. for 3 yrs w/ the 3rd having a team option.
What does everyone think the market will be for Ben Sheets and A.J. Burnett? Will 3-4 years at 13-15 million a year get it done?
I think the yankees priority should be to sign 2 of the 3: CC, Burnett and Sheets.
“178K’s in 171IP is dominant, FOR A RELIEVER. RASNER HAS ABOUT THE SAME ERA. PONSON HAS ABOUT THE SAME ERA. You would put up with just about 5 runs a game as long as he gets a strikeout or two every inning ? comee onnn”
Do you watch baseball? A 4ish ERA in the AL East is not terrible Beckett has a 4 and a half-ish ERA you wouldn’t want him on your team? You must not get to see a lot of games if you compare Burnett to Rasner.
*Ponson.
sabathia is the only one i’m going after. burnett’s season is an abberation,having a career year in a contract year(that seems to be the norm for a boras client).
austin jackson should be comepeting for the Cf spot next ST.
and at first, trade for conor jackson, he may not be the defensive first baseman, he’s a good bat and still young.
another option, and a big risk, how about nick johnson again?
Hey what happens if Pavano goes 4-0 with a 1.75 ERA over the last few weeks of the Season…you keep him,,,right ? ( jk )
Al from BK
Its just with AJ, I see one good season preceded by a bunch of mediocre injury plagued ones. Even this season his record seems to better than his performance.
The argument against Pavano in the first place was that he had one good year and we were giving up 40 mil for a .500 career pitcher. This is what I see in AJ. We’ve passed on guys because of this lingering “Pavano effect” so now we’re going to sign the guy who most resembles Pavano career wise?
“4. Pettit”
You can cross him off your list. He is a die hard Yankee and turned down a bigger offer a few years back from boston to go to houston. A true Yankee.
Pettitte has said numerous times NY or Houston were the only places he would ever pitch. I don’t think that would change now.
“With Boston having money to spend also:
There are 4 starter’s I don’t want them to have.
1. CC
2. Burnett
3. Moose
4. Pettit”
The latter 2 of those 4 would never consider Boston. Do you think the Yanks are getting outbid by anybody for CC realistically? If CC snubs us it will be to stay in the NL or go to the West coast.
“Well, I’d imagine if they shut down Joba for the rest of the season, they won’t send him to fall league.”
who said anything about shutting him down for the season. if they were even thinking of doing that, do you think they would have had him out there throwing in the OF in toronto or would have scheduled him to throw off a mound this w/e?
honestly, you’d think the guy’s arm fell off the way some ppl on here talk about joba. he felt a twinge, so they decided to shut him down for a few weeks as a precaution. why cant anybody believe this, why does it have to be like he has terminal cancer and nobody wants to say anything?
i’ll belive there’s something seriously wrong with him when he they tell him not to throw anymore. otherwise, i assume he’s a healthy young guy who had a little shoulder fatigue.
“another option, and a big risk, how about nick johnson again?”
I dont know who’s been on the dl more. Butt hurt(aka idle) or Nick.
sos, ‘rolly fingers’ makes the cut!
maybe i’m just slow, but i don’t get the others. what is the verb?
Bronx Jeers:
Burnett always had better stuff than Pavano.
While that is a good point about Boston looking for pitchers this offseason as well, I’d think that Pettitte would retire if the Yankees didn’t resign him. I doubt that Moose would go there, or that the Red Sox would sign him.
I’m hoping for a
Sabathia
Wang
Burnett
Joba
Pettitte
but it doesn’t seem that likely.
“Al from BK
Its just with AJ, I see one good season preceded by a bunch of mediocre injury plagued ones. Even this season his record seems to better than his performance.
The argument against Pavano in the first place was that he had one good year and we were giving up 40 mil for a .500 career pitcher. This is what I see in AJ. We’ve passed on guys because of this lingering “Pavano effect†so now we’re going to sign the guy who most resembles Pavano career wise?”
Touche. Obviously CC should be priority number 1. However is he snubs NY(which is a possibility) we should look elsewhere and I don’t trust Sheets coming the AL. It is not my money we are talking about its the Yankees money so why not sign Burnett if all else fails. Burnett at least wouldn’t fake injury and I think he would get us more than 4 wins in 4 years.
I just saw the Yanks have a 13 million option on Pavano for next year. Slim chance Cashman could pull a Sheffield but it would serve Pavano right not getting to control where he pitches next year.
I do agree if we get CC, Pettit says he’s coming back, Moose will not take a 1yr deal I don’t think but if he does, we are done…...if not you gotta like Burnett over Sheets.
“Do you watch baseball? A 4ish ERA in the AL East is not terrible Beckett has a 4 and a half-ish ERA you wouldn’t want him on your team? You must not get to see a lot of games if you compare Burnett to Rasner.”
No its not terrible, but im not spending 10-15 mil for it. Everyeone knows Beckett isnt having a good year A bad year perhaps so why even bring that up ? You cant offer a guy a big fat contract cause he strikes out 2 batters every inning. an ERA in the mid 4’s DOES NOT MAKE YOU DOMINIANT.
“Burnett would have to take a pay cut, he can’t expect to be paid like an All Star SP when he can’t even stay healthy. I’d take a shot but at a reasonable price. 8-10 mill per yr. for 3 yrs w/ the 3rd having a team option.”
That offer would be good for a few chuckles from his agent.
IPK is going to be an average pitcher at best. Hughes may be something if he can stay healthy. Clay needs to get some mental strength. Sadly though, he owns those two wins, a no-hitter, and a ring.
About Joba, I wish he was in the bullpen. He was great there and we will eventually need a closer. I’d be suprised if he can last a full season in the starter position. He seems to throw more than pitch and that will lead to the DL.
One guy who I would want over any of these kids is Jon Lester. His career record is 24-6 with a 3.87 ERA. He was the winning pitcher of the clinching game of the WS. Has thrown a no-hitter and complete game shut-out against…well…you know… Did I mention he’s 24 years old?
““Well, I’d imagine if they shut down Joba for the rest of the season, they won’t send him to fall league.â€
who said anything about shutting him down for the season. if they were even thinking of doing that, do you think they would have had him out there throwing in the OF in toronto or would have scheduled him to throw off a mound this w/e?
honestly, you’d think the guy’s arm fell off the way some ppl on here talk about joba. he felt a twinge, so they decided to shut him down for a few weeks as a precaution. why cant anybody believe this, why does it have to be like he has terminal cancer and nobody wants to say anything?
i’ll belive there’s something seriously wrong with him when he they tell him not to throw anymore. otherwise, i assume he’s a healthy young guy who had a little shoulder fatigue.”
I would not call him back up to the big team just let him get his work in at AAA when hes ready.
That offer would be good for a few chuckles from his agent.
I’d love to see his agent bamboozle a team to 5 yrs. plus w/ a SP that can’t stay healthy
“I just saw the Yanks have a 13 million option on Pavano for next year. Slim chance Cashman could pull a Sheffield but it would serve Pavano right not getting to control where he pitches next year.”
If thats true. Why not get something out of him. Let some dumb a$$ give him an extention. Mabe Detroit?
saucy,
I thought Poo hole was a verb? Forget it. Back to english 101.
sos
Cot’s Contracts says 13 Million club option and 1.95 million buyout for Pavano in 2009
what possible reason would they have for sending joba to the minors? do you think he will just throw at 3/4 speed there to reduce the strain. or do you think he needs to learn how to pitch to aaa batters ?(because he dominates the mlb guys?)
“I’d love to see his agent bamboozle a team to 5 yrs. plus w/ a SP that can’t stay healthy”
He’ll get more than $8M – $10M. Burnett has the option of sticking with Toronto for ‘09 and ‘10 at $12M apiece. His agent won’t have him opt out if he knows he can’t do better. $12M per over 4 years (also known as a Carlos Silva deal) would be the absolute minimum.
I love this according to Humpty Dumpty the Jays aren’t as competitive as the Yankees and Red Sox that should sit well w/ thier locker room especially after Ricchardi was doing the interview.
“No its not terrible, but im not spending 10-15 mil for it. Everyeone knows Beckett isnt having a good year A bad year perhaps so why even bring that up ? You cant offer a guy a big fat contract cause he strikes out 2 batters every inning. an ERA in the mid 4’s DOES NOT MAKE YOU DOMINIANT.”
No a 4 ERA doesn’t make you dominant, however great stuff and a high K per innings pitch does make you dominant. Ask a pro scout about pure stuff in baseball and hes up there with Halladay, Harden, Santana, Beckett, Peavy. Yes all those other pitchers have lower ERA’s but his stuff is comparable if not better than most front end guys.
“Burnett always had better stuff than Pavano.”
He looked awesome Tues night and has had a real good year but Pavano had a great year in 2004 as well. All I am saying is that they shouldn’t get all smitten over an injury prone guy after he has 1 exceptional year. One’s stuff becomes irrelevant if you’re throwin it from a hospital bed.
“The latter 2 of those 4 would never consider Boston. Do you think the Yanks are getting outbid by anybody for CC realistically? If CC snubs us it will be to stay in the NL or go to the West coast.”
The Dodgers are in serious need of pitching & I think Torre can talk them into CC (if they really have the money). Penny, Lowe, Saito, Procter, et al have taken their turns on the DL. They need to protect Kershaw from Torre and CC could be just the guy to help.
You need 5 starting pitchers and Kennedy will round out the rotation. Not every pitcher is going to be a No 1 or No 2 so take him for what he is. You’re never going to have 5 No 1 pitchers in your rotation.
BTW, for all of the criticism the Yankees have taken this year, where is all of the criticism for the Tigers? Remember Sports Illustrated and other polls had them winning it all?
Okay, I am just suggesting this, but I’d like you guys to tell me how likely/good of a trade this would be:
Ian Kennedy
Phil Coke
Robinson Cano
Melky Cabrera
Player to be named
for
Tim Lincecum
I know it’s not very likely, but that’d be just great.
“I love this according to Humpty Dumpty the Jays aren’t as competitive as the Yankees and Red Sox that should sit well w/ thier locker room especially after Ricchardi was doing the interview.”
I guess the Line of Credit has been frozen for Ricchardi.The same guy who said he will spend as much as the two giants. That didnt last long. Consumer Credit Counseling is accepting applications.
I’m in CC’s hometown right now. If I hear any inside info, I’ll pass it on.
I suspect that at this point the Yanks would want to bring both Moose and Andy back—and my guess is that Moose is the more likely of the two to want to re-up.
If we’re lucky enough to get them both back along with Wang and a Hefty FA pitcher to be named later, then we are really only counting on Joba and Hughes to combine to fill the 5th spot. Done creatively, that could give us a killer rotation for ‘09 while laying the groundwork for a greater role for the kids in’10.
That rosy scenario all hinges on the FA signing, of course. But it’s nice to dream.
“what possible reason would they have for sending joba to the minors? do you think he will just throw at 3/4 speed there to reduce the strain. or do you think he needs to learn how to pitch to aaa batters ?(because he dominates the mlb guys?)”
AAA is a less hostile and easier environment for him to pitch in. Why do you want him to rush back for the 3rd place, 6 games out of the wildcard Yankees?
“No a 4 ERA doesn’t make you dominant, however great stuff and a high K per innings pitch does make you dominant”
Of course he has the talent,no ones doubting that, but that always doesn’t calculate to wins. & it should in no way lead to a fat contract. Not from us anyway.
About Steve Philphs giving us a shot at the post season;
He always goes against the norm and hopes that if a miracle happens he could take the credit. (like trading Kasmir for Zambrano)
Lincecum will never be traded, he’s too valuable and good to trade. Besides that point, that’s an awful trade offer. You would have to give up a package that miorrs Montero, Hughes and Cano for Lincecum (based on the fact that Hughes is injury prone, Cano is inconsistent, and that Montero is a stud prospect).
Speaking of injury prone?
What the hell was in the water in Florida? Penny,Pavano,Beckett,Burnett and that single a lefty.
Pavano it is for Saturday.
if joba’s healthy, he will pitch in the majors, if not, he wont pitch. sending him down to the minors is ridiculous.
Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !)
I’d love to see his agent bamboozle a team to 5 yrs. plus w/ a SP that can’t stay healthy——————————-
You might be surprised Brandon – that that team just might be the Yankees. IF Boston does somehow find a way to finagle CC (like they did Schilling), you don’t think Yankeeland won’t be yelping for their team to start throwing out money and years to land a potential 2 or 3 starter? With the likes of Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy (joba and hughes with innings limits and kennedy with ineffectiveness), I can see a situation out there where if Bahston lands CC (CC, Beckett, Lester, Dice, Wake/Bucc), Hank will be wailing for someone who struck his team out 24 times in one year.
“He always goes against the norm and hopes that if a miracle happens he could take the credit. (like trading Kasmir for Zambrano)”
Man i cant believe this but im starting to feel sorry for him. He didnt trade Kazmir.
Haha Pavano pitching Saturday…this will be interesting.
“Okay, I am just suggesting this, but I’d like you guys to tell me how likely/good of a trade this would be:
Ian Kennedy
Phil Coke
Robinson Cano
Melky Cabrera
Player to be named
for
Tim Lincecum
I know it’s not very likely, but that’d be just great.”
This package could get you Jon Sanchez who IMO is fantastic, not as good as Lincecum but then again not many are.
I’m sure you heard it but, if not it’s definitely Pavano.
What do you think the chances are of the Yankees moving Posada over to 1st next year and resigning Pudge?
sunny615 just tell CC that Boston fans have racial issues and preorder his Knicks tickets.
“I’m in CC’s hometown right now.”
Isn’t he building his dream house somewhere around there?
Any chance you have a flair for arson?
Well Pavano never really had much of an injury history before his career year.
Cano alone gets you Jon Sanchez who IMO is fantastic, not as good as Lincecum but then again not many are.
FIXED.
so basically clay has more wins then ian and phil combined
“You might be surprised Brandon – that that team just might be the Yankees. IF Boston does somehow find a way to finagle CC (like they did Schilling), you don’t think Yankeeland won’t be yelping for their team to start throwing out money and years to land a potential 2 or 3 starter? With the likes of Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy (joba and hughes with innings limits and kennedy with ineffectiveness), I can