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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Almost famous

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 21, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy and Clay Buchholz are 2-17 with a 7.52 ERA. They’ve thrown only 137.2 innings.

Buchholz was optioned down to Double-A last night and Hughes may be passed over for Carl Pavano. It would be interesting to get those three guys together and talk about the burden of expectations.

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235 Responses to “Almost famous”

  1. RayBlay August 21st, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Those numbers are close to unbelievable, that they could have been SO awful… (And I can’t help but wish they kept Buchholz in the rotation ;) )

  2. Fredo Corleone August 21st, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    That’s life for many young pitchers. Kennedy will never be anything more than ordinary, but the other two will come around with age and experience.

  3. Harry K August 21st, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    so much for young talent at least buccholz has a ring and a room full of stolen laptops

  4. CK in LA August 21st, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    Joba is an anomaly. It’s so rare to see a kid come up with that kind of confidence and be able to back it up.

    I think kids like Hughes, Kennedy & Bucholz are hurt by the business side of the game. “Take the time you need to develop …. as long as it’s right now. We need a return on our investment”. It’s not their fault that teams are thowing huge amounts of money at them before they’ve ever pitched in the Minors/Majors.

  5. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    At least Buchholz has a ring and a no hitter. IPK has shown us nothing accept a poor attitude and Phil is constantly injured.

  6. frits August 21st, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    “burden of expectations”

    yeah, poor babies. 1st round draft picks. huge bonuses. i feel so bad for them.

  7. steve August 21st, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    and buchholz is dating a porn star to boot.

  8. Bronx Jeers August 21st, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    What could they possibly say?

    It’s tough and we’ll keep trying to succeed.

    Well maybe IPK might say something different but is their lack of success in the bigs so far such a surprise. What’s far more shocking IMO is the Yank brass penciling those guys in in March and expecting them to just immediately contribute. It’s like suddenly somebody just woke up, saw 3 Joba’s and fell back asleep. Joba’s come once a decade if you are lucky not 3 times a season. Somebody should be held accountable for this season. I still think they needed to protect their 200 mil investment.

  9. SJ44 August 21st, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Maybe they will come around and maybe they won’t.

    That’s the thing with young pitchers……you never really know about them until you see how they handle adversity.

    There isn’t a team in the game that has a handle on that when it comes to evaluating young pitchers. Or, young players in general.

    Its not like Jacoby Ellsbury has blossomed into an all star this year. Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera have also taken major steps back this year. Its the up and down nature of dealing with young players.

    Some guys, especially in high pressure markets like NY and Boston, never overcome early failure.

    Others use it as fuel and get better.

    Whether you are a fan of young pitchers or not, NOBODY in the game could have predicted those numbers for Hughes, Kennedy and Buchholz at the start of the season.

    Also, all 3 had time on the DL.

    Its why teams overpay for free agents. There is a track record of success at the ML level that gives them a certain surety when making significant investments on players.

    Obviously, going that route is also not without failure. See Carl Pavano and Matt Clement as examples.

    Bottom line, you can play with stats, projections and opinions about players until the sun sets. Until you put them out on the field and see how they handle success and failure, its all one big crapshoot.

  10. Rubin-I still believe August 21st, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Phil will be named the starter, mark my words!

  11. al arodien August 21st, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    well in the beginning of the 2007 season the daily news had two pitchers on the front page of the special sports pullout. One was Phill Hughes and the other was Mike Pelfery … we know today that the mets have a good pitcher in pelfery and the yanks have a guy who has proven nothing! WHEN SOMEONE GETTS SKIPPED BY CARL PAVANO , THAT TELLS ME SOMETHING!!

  12. andrew August 21st, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    why has pete given up on hughes, why? i want to see hughes back just to prove people wrong like pete and espn guys that he has got stuff.

    IPK never had the best stuff, but Phil will be back and will be dominant. how can you forget when he came in to relieve clemmens in the alds last year. he shut them down and gave the yankees a chance. this year, his vision was bad plus he got hurt. besides his last start, which he was battling a cold, he’s been shutting everyone down.

    oh and he had a no hitter going in texas before he got hurt. i have faith in phil and cant wait to see him back.

  13. PJH August 21st, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    Maybe Buchholz will have to go back to his old career… Laptop Larcenist.

  14. andrew August 21st, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    also, the only thing im anxious to see IF phil gets the pass, i would be very interested to see what pudge does with pavano. he caught him when he had his best year in the majors, so i guess we’ll see what happens. i still rather see phil get the nod

  15. stuart August 21st, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Yeah Washburn has pitched like expected terribley since he did not get picked up.. where are all those losers that wanted the yanks to overpay for at best a 5th starter?

    come out all you whiners who were begging to pick up this bad pitcher…

    I still think Hughes will be very good, Kennedy that is a whole other story..

    Yeah Bucholtz another over hyped Sux rookie like ; ellsbury, hansen, and many many others..

  16. Oldscut70 August 21st, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    I dont see what relevance the no-hitter is…Clay completed a no-no…

  17. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Off topic from last thread

    These next 5 weeks are going to be like watching a season of 24. Everyday will end wondering if Jack will finally die/Yankees. Wondering how they are going to get out of it this jam.
    With Beckett and Wakefield hurt. Im back on the life bandwagon. Till the 24th hour ends. I will continue to think that it is a right for the Yankees to be in the playoffs. Some way Some how, we will get in. Stay tuned.

  18. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop (My Latest Blog Entry: Maybe the tough love approach will work? Great video, too) August 21st, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    “so much for young talent at least buccholz has a ring and a room full of stolen laptops”

    Harry K.

    I like your humor!

  19. Forntoso August 21st, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Is there a tangible difference between Kennedy and Igawa besides the hand they throw from?

  20. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    All the pitching is a crapshoot, that’s why guys like Pettit, and Moose are important to bring back, they’ve been here and performed with success.

    Why not try the youthful pitcher’s, what choice did Cash have, he tried so called proven “FA” picher’s, it didn’t work, Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano…

  21. hank hal August 21st, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    David Ortiz didn’t steal your cheeseburger this time?

  22. SJ44 August 21st, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    Let’s not get too carried away with Joba. He showed flashes this year and has certainly pitched better than Buchholz, Kennedy and Hughes. On the surface, he looks to be the guy that can emerge and be the best of the bunch.

    However, he also came up lame. A lot of pitching is being able to make your starts. Its a big part of the game. It may sound harsh to some of you but, Joba isn’t going to be able to pitch 100 innings this year. That’s not “progress”. That means, he is on an innings limit again next year and that throws the rotation plans of the Yankees for 2009 off track once again.

    In other words, his development also hasn’t gone according to form.

    There is also this “little” (I say sarcastically) question about his health. Unless of course, you really believe all he has is “rotator cuff tendinitis”.

    Can his shoulder hold up under a starters workload? Will he, like Papelbon, have to be put back in the bullpen to better protect his health?

    We don’t know the answers to those questions at this time.

    In the end, both the Yankees and Red Sox rushed their young guys to the bigs before they were ready and all of them failed. Failed to stay healthy and (with the exception of Joba) failed to produce any positive results.

    I think both organizations will have to review how they are handling their young pitchers. If they were to be graded, both teams would receieve an “F” grade for their work this year.

  23. MoBoy(aka McLovin) August 21st, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    I hope the Yankees learned from their mistakes.Kennedy has only thrown 150 innings in the minors and Hughes is still 21.Whats the rush.Even Joba was rushed into the rotation.

    If Cashman can’t get good free agents like starting pitchers then these young guys will be rushed and hurt.Wonder if anyone has those stupid “Save The big Three” T-Shirts.

    The Late 90′s teams had great farm systems but also great free agents.

  24. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    stuart it looks like he’s tanking it to get them to release him. Washburn wanted out of Seattle and the management led him to believe he would be out so he got his stock up I think it was 10 games in a row were he gave more than acceptable outings then after the waiver pull back he just tanked it. :lol:

  25. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    “Is there a tangible difference between Kennedy and Igawa besides the hand they throw from?”

    Igawa actually throws harder.

  26. L'Angelo Misterioso August 21st, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    With apologies to Johnny Cash:

    CASH-MAN COMES AROUND

    And I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder: One of the four starters saying: “Come and see.” And I saw. And behold, a white horse.

    There’s a Cash-man goin’ ’round takin’ names. An’ he decides who to throw and who to flame. Everybody won’t be treated all the same. There’ll be a golden ladder reaching down. When Cash-man comes around.

    The hairs on your arm will stand up. At the terror in each pitch and in each pop-up. Will you pitch, have another injury, or “hiccup?” Or disappear into the pitcher’s mound. When Cash-man comes around.

    Hear Giambi, hear Mussina. One hundred million fans a groanin’. Multitudes are marching to Freddy Sez’ little kettle drum. Eiland’s callin’, Carl is cryin’. Tabata’s gone an’ Ponson’s flyin’. It’s George and Hank and Hal’s Kingdom come.

    And the whirlwind is in the bullpen. The rookies are all trimming their mitts. The whirlwind is in the bullpen. It’s hard for Carl to kick against the pricks.

    Till playoff time, no Shalam, no Shalom. Then the Joe Girardi will call his chickens home. The Red Sox will bow down before the Yankee throne. And at his feet they’ll give up the golden crown. When Cash-man comes around.

    Whoever is uninjured, let him be uninjured still. Whoever is hot at the plate, let him be hot at the plate still. Whoever is Manny, let him be Manny still. Listen to the lineup long written down, When Cash-man comes around.

    Hear the Joba, hear the Damon. Two hundred million dollars wastin’. Multitudes are marchin’ to Freddie Sez’ little kettle drum. Roll callin’, bleacher creatures. Some are drunk an’ some are pukin’. It’s Pavano’s and Zambrano’s Kingdom come.

    And Suzyn Waldman is in the press box. Jon Sterling is trimming his wick. Goodness Gracious! She’s in the press box. It’s hard for Carl to kick against the pricks.

    In measured hundred-millions and penny pound. When Cash-man comes around.

    And I heard a voice in the midst of the four starters, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Carl. And Hell followed with him.

  27. SJ44 August 21st, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    Al,

    Did you check out Mike Pelfery’s early start with the Mets? He started his career 0-6 and was taken out of the rotation.

    He too, had his early problems. He wasn’t an early success.

    You have to be willing to ride it out with young pitchers. Its going to be a roller coaster as they learn their way in the game.

  28. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    “The Late 90’s teams had great farm systems but also great free agents.”

    Exactly. Cash likes to think that he can have a HOF line-up and a Scranton rotation.

  29. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    By the start of the 09 season. The nickname will be changed from GENERATION TREY(always hated it) to the dynamic duo or maybe thunder and lightning. Kennedy is gone.

  30. Redding August 21st, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    SJ, Excellent point.

    Performance-wise, Joba has been excellent. However, progression-wise, he has remained stagnant or even taken a step back. He has only thrown 89 innings this year which means we have the same problem next yr of trying to conserve his innings. He will probably have to start in the pen again. And this injury is a red-flag because he does have health concerns.

    That is why it is imperative we do our best to sign CC and have 4 reliable starters with no innings limits or anything next season.

  31. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    “Al,

    Did you check out Mike Pelfery’s early start with the Mets? He started his career 0-6 and was taken out of the rotation.

    He too, had his early problems. He wasn’t an early success.

    You have to be willing to ride it out with young pitchers. Its going to be a roller coaster as they learn their way in the game.”

    It is not the performance that concerns me it is the health issues that concern me, especially with Phil. He has proven that when 100% he can be a very effective pitcher. However he has only been 100% for about a month in his 2 year career thus far.

  32. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    Hell their nickname could be Laurell and Hardy for all i care. As long as they pitch to their potential. Its all good.

  33. al arodien August 21st, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    SJ44

    i know that but the mets did one thing differently they made him earn his spot unlike the yanks that at first put in Huges and IPK in the starting 5 this season.

  34. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop (My Latest Blog Entry: Maybe the tough love approach will work? Great video, too) August 21st, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    “we know today that the mets have a good pitcher in pelfery and the yanks have a guy who has proven nothing!”

    Last September, the Mets could have said the same thing about the two pitchers (with Hughes being the “good pitcher”).

    Young pitchers have ups and downs. Also, let’s not forget that Pelfrey is two and a half years older than Hughes.

  35. pat August 21st, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Al Arodien
    It’s not like Pelfrey hasn’t logged some frequent flier miles between NY and New Orleans.

    Have a little patience with Hughes, he’s barely 22 years old.

  36. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    “By the start of the 09 season. The nickname will be changed from GENERATION TREY(always hated it) to the dynamic duo or maybe thunder and lightning. Kennedy is gone.”

    I absolutely agree. IPK was over-hyped just to complete the trio idea that the media had concocted. Yes his AAA numbers were tremendous but so are a lot of guys AAA numbers. Following that logic Shelley Duncan is Mark Mcgwire, Kei Igawa is Sandy Koufax and Brett Gardner is Rickey Henderson. However as we’ve all seen AAA numbers don’t always translate. Joba and Phil(If he can get healthy) are the keepers get whatever you can for Alfred E Newman.

  37. Joe from Long Island August 21st, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    How exactly did “rushing” Phil Hughes give him a broken rib? Or Ian Kennedy a strained lat dorsi muscle (I think that’s the injury he had)? Or Joba (who is not at his pitch limit-for-age) get his rotator cuff tendonitis? Why wouldn’t snapping off a curve ball in Scranton, Pawtucket, or Rochester be less stressful on a young arm? I can see where moving some young guy up before they have enough control or secondary pitches might get them hit harder in the bigs than in AAA, but the inuuries?

    The Mets don’t seem to be having any problems lately with Mike Pelfrey, and he started this year, what, 2 – 7? Now, they’re talking about him being no.2 after Santana in the pecking order.

  38. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    SJ and others,
    If Joba has to start all over in the pen and it looks like he will. Do we maybe get C.C. and maybe go after a pitcher that has upside/young like Owings? I think he was dangled in the trading deadline. If not. Who else could we go after? When does Vazques become a free agent?

  39. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop (My Latest Blog Entry: Maybe the tough love approach will work? Great video, too) August 21st, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    al arodien,

    Hughes pitched great over the final 6 weeks of last year, plus he won a playoff game. I think he earned his spot in the starting five.

  40. steve August 21st, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    britton is lucky that our minor league affiliate is 90 minutes away by train in Scranton.

    imagine if he had to fly to New Orleans everytime he was optioned out like Mets prospects do?

  41. SJ44 August 21st, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    Even if they don’t sign CC (which would be a mistake if they don’t, IMO), they need a top end starting pitcher to add to the rotation in the off-season to go along with Wang, Pettitte and Moose.

    I still maintain bringing back Pettitte and Moose is as important as anything the Yankees do in the off-season. They can’t go into next season with 3 young guys in the rotation. Been there, don’t that, and it failed. Don’t repeat the same mistake again next season.

    What’s ironic about all the talk about young pitching is, there was this lone voice in the woods in March warning about not depending too much on young pitchers. He talked about how much pressure there is on them both physically and emotionally and nobody knows how they will handle that.

    Critics said he was, “bitter” and “just afraid of losing his job” and dismissed everything he had to say.

    That person was Mike Mussina. Turns out, he was absolutely correct in his assessments.

    Not only that, he comes out and becomes one of the 4 best starting pitchers in the AL at 39 years old.

    In this age of radar guns, unamed “sources, scouts, and pitching “gurus”, one would be smart to listen to the words of a guy who has been in the trenches and has had success.

    Moose knows what he is talking about when it comes to pitching.

  42. randy l August 21st, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    there’s very little difference between toronto and tampa bay in runs differential yet a big gap in the standings.

    the angels do not have a run differntial you’d expect with their record .

    are maddon and sciosa doing something different than other teams to get a better record than you’d expect with their run differentials?

  43. SJ44 August 21st, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Owings is going to Cincinnati as part of the Dunn deal. At this point in his career, he is more hitter than pitcher. He has really fallen off the map as a pitcher.

    If they don’t sign CC? AJ Burnett could be the next guy up in the pecking order. Just a guess on my part.

    Teams are loathe to give up on their high ceiling young pitchers. They know how expensive it is to get pitching in free agency. I don’t see a lot of teams dealing their young arms to the Yankees unless they get a big bounty in return.

  44. Tidrow August 21st, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Look at the bright side; if Hughes comes up and does well and Joba recovers and gets back in the rotation and this team makes the playoffs these two kids will be fresh as daisies and raring to go in the post season.

  45. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Ok Snack’ems is on now.

  46. al arodien August 21st, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    pat ,Clay Buchholz stole my laptop ;

    I am not saying that i dont have patience , But i have a problem how the yanks pamperd those two in the begining and didnt make them earn there jobs. ( look at hughes he even opened his own blog like he will be for the next 20 years a yank , not only did he close his blog they took away is first number)

  47. jason August 21st, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Which team does handle it young pitchers well?
    I think it has to do with luck of the draw as much as with the system.
    The Yankees have been in my opinion very systematic in their approach, do not ramp up innings etc. To me it is similar to the way the Red Sox handle their prospects.
    Yet as has been mentioned both teams young pitchers have been injured and/or ineffective. Tampa lost one of their prized arm to the knife of TJ. Toronto burns through pitchers. Arizona has now given up on Nippert, Ohlendorf and Owings. Florida has problems keeping their pitchers healthy. Oakland builds em then sells em.
    Every team will hit on some guys but will also lose an equivalent or greater amount due to physical difficulties of pitching.
    You need to give these guys time. It took Lester a couple of years and cancer to become the pitcher he is this year. It took Beckett 5-6 years before he came to the Red Sox and became a work horse and now his season and career might be in jeopardy. Give Hughes, Bucholz and Joba the same few years.

  48. Patrick â„¢ August 21st, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    There is some question that Owings will be traded to the Reds becuase of his shoulder injury.

    Perhaps Owings should go the Ankiel route? He’s shown he can hit major league pitching, although its been a very small sample size. In 112 AB’s Owings is .313/.350/.545. Thats damn good if he can keep it up over a longer period of time.

    If the Yankees can’t get CC I’d take Sheets over Burnett.

  49. AZ Four August 21st, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    It was idiocy to guarantee a spot in the rotation to Kennedy anyway… How did he think that a soft tosser with 3 ML starts was good enough to be the #4 starter of the Yankees? And they penciled Hughes into the #3 spot despite the fact he was only going to be able to pitch 140 innings.

    Next year, we need 4 reliable starters. Whether that’s two of CC/Sheets/Brunett along with Wang and Andy/Moose, or one of the big free agents along with Wang and BOTH Andy and Moose. Joba/Hughes have too many health concerns and innings limits to both be in the rotation.

    The transition year is over and it flopped. Everyone regressed tremendously or stayed right where they were. New stadium, $80+ mil off the payroll… the time to win is now.

  50. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    I find it hard to believe if Joba is approaching his innings limit next August, that the Yanks will pull him out of the rotation. Imagine next year the Yanks in a tough division race and there is a game at Fenway in late August and the Yanks option Joba to SWB and bring up Rasner/Igawa. I can only imagine the Hank quotes and fan backlash.

  51. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Programming note: GI Joe w. Chubsy Wubsy at 5 PM

  52. randy l August 21st, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    “Which team does handle it young pitchers well?”

    the twins seem to do a good job, though liriano had problems.
    then again he was from another organization.

    i doubt they use more technology. i think they use more baseball common sense. they tend to let the pitchers develop longer at triple a and give them small doses of the big leagues over a few years before letting them stay up for good.

  53. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    “If the Yankees can’t get CC I’d take Sheets over Burnett.”

    My pecking order
    C.C.
    Burnett
    Harden(thought he was a free agent after the year)
    Sheets(struggling for the past month)
    Pavano(trying to keep a straight face while typing that)

  54. pat August 21st, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    al arodien

    Nothing ventured, nothing gained. The Yankees were hoping the kids would pay immediate dividends based on a small sample size. It didn’t work how they wanted so they went to plan B.

    The cautionary tale- beware of passing judgements based on small sample size.

    FYI: Hughes still has his own blog. It’s just on a different server now.

  55. Andrew August 21st, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Yeah AZ Four, just throw money at all the problems and they will go away. Put a stop to all this “youth movement” garbage and send away the young players and replace them with the big name veterans that will be the only reason any tickets are sold in the new Stadium. That sounds like a great idea, and it has worked so well for the past 8 years or so.

  56. Patrick â„¢ August 21st, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Al,

    Joba is probably on the same innings limit next year that he was on this year. Around 140 innings. I wouldn’t be surprised if he started for half the year then was put back into the bullpen for the second half. 16 starts (about half a season) averaging 6 IP/start is 96 innings. Half a season out of the bullpen would probably be around 40 so it makes sense. This way he wouldn’t have to transition to starting mid-season and he’d stay under the innings limit. Then in spring of 2010 he’d just have to build up arm strength and begin as a starter again.

    I hate to screw around with him in the bullpen again but the only other options are to risk a major injury or put him in the minors.

  57. SJ44 August 21st, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    Who else were they going to put into the rotation this year? Jeff Karstens? Darrel Rasner? Alan Horne?

    The reality is, Phil Hughes earned his spot into the rotation based on his work last year. Kennedy? He was the fifth starter. The season isn’t hinging on the fifth starter. Ineffective fifth starters are replaced all the time.

    The Yankees felt they had a 968 run offense coming back this year and the offense would carry them early while the young pitchers took their lumps.

    What they didn’t figure was, Posada getting hurt early and being no factor this year. Arod and Jeter getting hurt and missing games. Matsui going down for 2 months. Cano and Cabrera falling off the map this year. The entire offense struggling all year with RISP.

    Really, how could they have envisioned the above?

    All of that has happened and we aren’t even talking about Hughes and Kennedy’s struggles and Wang going down for the year in June.

    The fact is, the pitching isn’t the problem. Its the offense.

    Rasner pitched a helluva game the other night and lost because they couldn’t hit. Ponson has pitched very well. Joba had a series of no decisions because the Yankees couldn’t score runs. Same for Pettitte.

    The team was built on offense and the offense hasn’t produced. That has a trickle down effect on the entire team.

    When that happens pitchers press and try to be too fine. Or, they strain too much making pitches (which is how Chamberlain hurt his bicep tendon) because they are pressing since they have little offensive support.

    While Hughes and Kennedy have struggled, the offense hasn’t been good. If it was just off 10% from last year, they are in the playoffs.

    Instead, they are off almost 30%, more with RISP, something NOBODY could have predicted at the start the year, and they are currently on the outside looking in for a playoff spot.

  58. Rishi August 21st, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    OK, seperate note: anyone watching this Olympics “Handball”? What the heck is that? feels like a basketball/soccer combo…very weird.

  59. CK in LA August 21st, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    According to Suzyn Waldman, Burnett has already started politicking with the NY press. He seems to be dreaming in Pinstripes. Not a bad dream at all.

  60. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    Hey can Owings play 1st. :)

  61. E-Man August 21st, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Don’t be shocked if they don’t go after anyone.

    I don’t trust this FO.

    It might be another “Transition year” since this one really wasn’t one.

  62. Andrew August 21st, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    I don’t think Harden is a true free agent, either he has a player option or the Cubs can pick up an option or something like that.

  63. TurnTwo August 21st, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    “I still maintain bringing back Pettitte and Moose is as important as anything the Yankees do in the off-season. They can’t go into next season with 3 young guys in the rotation. Been there, don’t that, and it failed. Don’t repeat the same mistake again next season.”

    i think people forget that there are other pitchers who are available this offseason who could provide just as much production, if not more, albeit with a longer term commitment than what you get from Pettitte and Moose.

    Sheets, Sabathia and Burnett are the big names, but guys like Jon Garland and Oliver Perez are having quality seasons. Garland is prob the best option for Moose insurance and prob should be looked at as an option for the rotation, anyway. i know he’s a SoCal guy, but if the Angels let him walk, he’s a good fit.

  64. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    Other concerning questions for 09

    Who’s on first?
    Whats in center?
    Whens at catcher?

    Thoughts?
    Laroche? Dejesus? Alphabet? Melky take 3? Flash?

  65. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    “Harden(thought he was a free agent after the year)”

    Not a FA.

  66. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    CC, Burnett, Wang, Pettit, Moose..hughes, joba, giese, robertson, veras, ramirez, bruney, mo

    not bad ………

  67. TurnTwo August 21st, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    “I don’t think Harden is a true free agent, either he has a player option or the Cubs can pick up an option or something like that.”

    yeah, team option. thats why it made sense to trade for him if he was healthy.

  68. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    “Al,

    Joba is probably on the same innings limit next year that he was on this year. Around 140 innings. I wouldn’t be surprised if he started for half the year then was put back into the bullpen for the second half. 16 starts (about half a season) averaging 6 IP/start is 96 innings. Half a season out of the bullpen would probably be around 40 so it makes sense. This way he wouldn’t have to transition to starting mid-season and he’d stay under the innings limit. Then in spring of 2010 he’d just have to build up arm strength and begin as a starter again.

    I hate to screw around with him in the bullpen again but the only other options are to risk a major injury or put him in the minors.”

    How silly. Why not increase the innings limit to 160-180. At this rate he’ll be 25 before he can go 200 innings.

  69. Andrew August 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    LaRoche gets a big thumbs-down for first base. Guy is as inconsistent as they come, and he doesn’t strike me as any kind of a fiery, wants-to-win-every-night competitor.

  70. Phelps Phan August 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    you huys REALLY want Burnett in your rotation ?
    REALLYYYY, every month hes on the DL with another freak injury. I dont wanna take the chance again after Carl Pavano.

  71. steve August 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    yeah andrew because hughes and kennedy proved so much this year.

    the “veterans” have done far more than the kids, sans joba.

    which would you rather have?

    cc, sheets/brunett/mussina, wang, pettitte/mussina, joba

    or

    wang, pettitte/mussina, hughes, joba, kennedy

    we’re not talking about washed up NL pitchers like brown and randy, sabathia is a left handed ace in his prime who dominated the AL.

  72. Patrick â„¢ August 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    I think its impossible to predict who will be next year’s CF or 1B. Most likely whoever is playing in those positions will be acquired through trade. Its really hard for us to know what players will be available, what their price is, if Cashman wants that player, etc

  73. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    SJ we were jotting down a few things last night when no one was on.

    Check what they do vs power pitchers

    Jeter .250/.331/.329
    Arod .256/.342/.488
    Damon .263/.363/.380
    Cano .196/.244/.270
    Stach .172/.298/.306

    There is only one guy that can hit his weight vs power pitchers in this lineup consistantly at a 08′ clip of .333/.408/.522 that belongs to Bobby Abreu. Matsui is the other one but .330/.432/.420 is not expected for him after his DL stint. And think of what the Orioles will trot against us. Cabrera, Guthrie these are the types of SP that Yankees can’t touch if thier life depended on it.

    A poster came w/ this jaw dropping stat info of Yankees vs power pitchers

    Power pitchers vs. NYY this season

    Beckett – 3-1, 3.25 ERA (27 IP, 20 Ks)
    Brunett – 3-0; 1.63 ERA (22 IP, 24 Ks)
    E. Santana – 1-0; 0 ERA (8 IP, 8 Ks)
    Halladay – 2-1; 2.05 ERA (22 IP, 14 Ks) (That win was a Philip Hughes start)
    Greinke – 1-1; 1.63 ERA (19.1 IP, 13 Ks)
    Sabathia – 0-1; 1.50 ERA (8 IP, 8 Ks)
    Kazmir – 1-1; 1.64 ERA (11 IP, 12 Ks)
    Lester – 2-0; 1.13 ERA (16 IP, 16 Ks)
    Cueto – 0-1; 1.80 ERA (5 IP, 7 Ks)
    J. Santana – 1-1; 4.61 ERA (13.2 IP, 13 Ks)
    Cabrera – 3-0; 3.05 ERA (20 IP, 9 Ks)
    Shields – 0-2; 2.92 ERA (12.1 IP, 11 Ks)
    Volquez – 1-0; 2.57 ERA (7 IP, 5 Ks)
    C. Lee – 1-0; 0.00 ERA (7 IP, 7 Ks)
    Gallagher – 0-0; 3.60 ERA (5 IP, 7 Ks)
    Oswalt – 0-1; 4.76 ERA (5 IP, 6 Ks)
    McGowen – 0-0; 5.56 ERA
    E. Jackson – 1-1; 2.59 ERA (24 IP, 16 Ks)
    O. Perez – 2-0; 1.84 ERA (16 IP, 14 Ks)
    Guhtrie – 1-1; 2.70 ERA (14 IP, 9 Ks)
    Lackey – 0-0; 4.76 ERA (14 IP, 9 Ks)
    Peavy – 0-1; 6.75 ERA (4 IP, 4 Ks)
    F. Hernandez – 0-1; 9.53 ERA (5.2 IP, 3 Ks)
    Garza – 1-0; 0.00 ERA (7 IP, 3 Ks)

    Power pitchers vs. NYY in 2007

    E. Santana – 0-0; 27.00 ERA
    Brunett – 1-0; 0.60 ERA
    Halladay – 1-0; 2.38 ERA
    Beckett – 2-1; 4.39 ERA
    Haren – 1-0; 6.97 ERA
    Lackey – 0-0; 2.38 ERA
    Cain – 0-1; 9.00 ERA
    McGowen – 2-2; 5.25 ERA
    Maine – 0-1; 9.00 ERA
    Carmona – 0-1; 4.15 ERA
    Perez – 2-0; 1.20 ERA
    Webb – 0-1; 3.86 ERA
    D. Cabrera – 1-3; 6.67 ERA
    Greinke – 0-0; 11.05 ERA
    Shields – 0-2; 14.46 ERA
    Meche (if he counts) – 0-2; 6.75 ERA
    Matsuzaka – 2-1; 6.12 ERA
    Gutrie – 1-0; 5.29 ERA
    E. Jackson – 1-1; 5.87 ERA
    Marcum – 0-2; 5.59 ERA

  74. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    Damon
    Jeter
    Hideki
    Arod
    Posada
    X
    Cano

    these guys will be here no sure who else, 1B, OF, utility

  75. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    “According to Suzyn Waldman, Burnett has already started politicking with the NY press. He seems to be dreaming in Pinstripes. Not a bad dream at all.”

    Can I get a source on this it seems very interesting. I am sure Burnett would love to be in a rotation including CC, Wang and Joba. Anyone who watched Tuesdays game knows what this guy can do when hes on. I say give him a shot but don’t go more than 3-4 years with this guy.

  76. sorry to rain on the parade August 21st, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    “Is there a tangible difference between Kennedy and Igawa besides the hand they throw from?”

    yeah, there’s about $43,000,000 worth of differnece!

  77. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    I say give him a shot but don’t go more than 3-4 years with this guy.

    Take a pay cut and we’ll do it.

  78. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    Ovaltine is preeching the deepness of this lineup again. I really don’t know what deepness he is talking about.

  79. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Timothy,
    I still believe one of Damon or Matsui will not be here next year.

    Al from bk,
    I mentioned this tuesday. They had an interview a few years back with Mr.Dl,Beckett and Burnett, they asked them who had the best stuff on the staff. They all said Burnett. If only he can avoid being Pavanoed every year.

  80. Joe I August 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    “Ovaltine is preeching the deepness of this lineup again. I really don’t know what deepness he is talking about.”

    The deep hole they put the team in heading into the last month-plus of the season.

  81. Betsy August 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    Wow, AA for Clay? It happens – he’s still going to be a very fine pitcher. Wonder what all those so-called experts are saying, though. My guess is they’re going to remain silent. I used to worry what these experts said about Phil, but now? I just want Phil to pitch well and show himself to be the kind of pitcher we know he can; the rest will take care of itself.

    The problem with Phil has been the injuries. I think Phil was always confident, but the injuries have robbed him of that confidence, not to mention precious developmental time. Physically, he appears to be better than he has in awhile; now it’s just a matter of realizing that he IS healthy. I think once he’s confident of that, he’ll come around. This kid took the mound and saved the Yankees season last year; in that packed house against the Indians, he gave the ball back to Joe Torre and said he was having fun (I cleaned it up a bit). That is precisely why he succeeded in that situation, where most rookies and many veterans would fail. That Phil from last October is still in there – he didn’t lose his talent, he didn’t lose his composure, he didn’t lose his moxie, he didn’t lose his mental toughness. Phil just needs to believe that.

  82. SJ44 August 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    Brandon,

    That comes with age. Your bat speed slows with age and no greenies. Also, older players tend to guess more at the plate (see Ken Griffey Jr. as the best example of that these days) and that leaves you vulnerable to heat.

    When a team has trouble scoring runs, EVERYBODY presses. I don’t care who you are, you press when your team isn’t scoring runs.

    That’s why we have seen so many guys chasing pitches out of the zone, running themselves out of innings on the bases, etc.

    I maintain hitting with RISP is a mindset and its best to do it early in the year. Once you do, guys tend to relax because they have had success and it can carry you through the inevitable dry patches during the year.

    Not having early success doing it, which this team has did not this year, just leads to everybody guessin’ and pressin’.

    Ironically, the more you talk about not doing it, the more you do it. Its just one of those things in baseball.

    Its why firing the hitting coach doesn’t do any good because he’s not responsible for their lack of hitting. That’s on the players.

  83. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    “you huys REALLY want Burnett in your rotation ?
    REALLYYYY, every month hes on the DL with another freak injury. I dont wanna take the chance again after Carl Pavano.”

    Pavano couldn’t carry Burnett’s jock strap. I know his injury past is a bit troubling but this year he has thrown 170+ innings with a month to go. Burnett unlike Idle actually seems to have passion for the game.

  84. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    This is a really strange season, now Steve Phillips gives us a shot at post-season, and every one else say’s it’s doubtful….

  85. Bronx Jeers of America August 21st, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Burnett’s a risk. I like any guy who wants to pitch in NY and he’s pitched good this year but he’s no ace. And after passing on one ace last off season, they should at the very least see that passing up aces isn’t the smart or safe play.

    SJ44

    Joba’s shown more than “flashes” this season. I was skeptical that his performance last year could have been a “flash” but I’m sold now. And I’ll play devils’ advocate on this one so isn’t it possible his shoulder inflammation could have resulted from his unorthodox climb into the rotation. And if he really had an injury beyond what was stated, do you really think he would be throwing at all.

    In retrospect, The Yanks really blew it this year in terms of developing these three. It’s no wonder a gun like Cole would have 2nd thoughts on joining this calamity.

  86. E-Man August 21st, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    Other concerning questions for 09

    Who’s on first?

    I think first should be used as another DH spot unfortunetly. I wanted an actual 1b guy but honestly I don’t think it’s going to work. There’s too many questions.

    Is Posada even going to be able to catch? Will Giardi let him, he’s already shown he doesn’t want him back there.

    We currently have 4 outfielders. Only Abreu is up for FA next year and there’s a chance he could come back.
    Nady and Damon have both played first before.

    Even if Abreu should go.. We have Matsui, Damon and Nady. I’m sure Melky or Gardner will be getting playing time.

  87. randy l August 21st, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    i think when trying to work young pitchers into the rotation that one spot only should be set aside for that. for instance, the yankees would have had a spot open for hughes, joba, kennedy, and the rest of the minor league system.

    once young pitchers have gone through a few years of being in that 5th spot for varying periods and when they have proven themselves at the mlb level ,then they can move to the 4th spot and stay.

    if the yankees adopted this approach, they wouldn’t have fiascos like with hughes and kennedy. work young pitchers in ,but don’t count on them.

  88. Andrew August 21st, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    First of all, steve, the argument isn’t to rely on Hughes and Kennedy again next year and tempt what happened this year reoccurring. I was talking about the idea of overcompensating for this year by adding a bazillion free agents on long-term contracts, especially guys that are bigger question marks than sure things (Sheets, Burnett, most of the position players who are FAs). I think the consensus is that Sabathia is the #1 target and that makes sense. Plan B as AJ Burnett makes sense, but people who are calling to immediately spend all $80 million of available payroll on free agents to fill in all the holes that the roster has developed? That is not the way I hope the offseason goes.

    Signing a fragile guy like Sheets to a multi-year deal for big money is a huge risk. Signing anyone is a risk, but why take multiple huge-money risks in one offseason? The Yankees have been burned on multiple long-term deals, but what, going to that same well over and over again, especially multiple times in one offseason, is the right way to go? That to me will just bring on more of the same mediocrity and disappointment that has followed the team for years now.

  89. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    “Al from bk,
    I mentioned this tuesday. They had an interview a few years back with Mr.Dl,Beckett and Burnett, they asked them who had the best stuff on the staff. They all said Burnett. If only he can avoid being Pavanoed every year.”

    Very true. He just has to stay on the field but in fairness to him he has done it this year he might get 20 wins and his K numbers are finally on par with his stuff.

  90. SJ44 August 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Al,

    The “source” is Suzyn Waldman. That’s why the poster cited her when discussing what he has been doing.

    AJ can pitch, as we all have seen. His issue is staying healthy.

    If they don’t get CC, I’d make a big play for AJ. He’s pitched with success in the AL East and I think he would be a real upgrade to the staff.

    Is it a gamble? EVERY pitcher you use is a gamble.

    Face it, the Yankees are going to have to gamble this off-season and sign a pitcher or two. If not, its gonna be a LONG year next year.

  91. Doreen August 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    I think first you determine if Moose and Pettitte want to come back. Why go outside the organization for 4 and 5 guys in the rotation? These two are not only veteran pitchers, but YANKEE veteran pitchers, and in my mind that counds for a lot. If either of those two decide not to come back, then you go to the next step and look at other options.

    I also think if Sidney Ponson finishes up strong this month the Yankees should invite him to spring training. No one knows how next season is going to look and he and the Yankees seem to be a good match.

    One thing I think is that the Yankees need to move fast, or as fast as they can, because there are going to be alot of other teams going after the same players they are.

  92. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    “This is a really strange season, now Steve Phillips gives us a shot at post-season, and every one else say’s it’s doubtful….”

    Crap!! Pack your bags fellas. Season is over.

  93. Patrick â„¢ August 21st, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    “How silly. Why not increase the innings limit to 160-180. At this rate he’ll be 25 before he can go 200 innings.”

    The rule followed by most intelligent executives in baseball is increasing innings limits by 30 every season. Last year Joba threw 110 innings so this year his limit was ~140. This year if he comes back he’ll probably hit 110-120 but its looking pretty likely that he won’t be back at all and will end the season under 100. I’m being generous in predicting that he’ll have a 140 IP limit next year. If you want to risk a serious injury sure let him pitch more.

    The truth is, even if he had hit 140 this year he would have been on a limit in 2009. Now he will be on a limit in 2009 and 2010 and no limits in 2011. It sucks but its just the way it is. It would be incredibly foolish to try and push him (or Kennedy or Hughes) beyond a 30 IP increase.

  94. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    We ask Moose and Pettit if they want to come back, to be honest I doubt either will.

    So you will need 2 strong starter’s CC and Burnett IMO would be the 1st options.

    If it happened that’s
    CC
    Burnett
    Wang

    you will still need another starter 1 from Joba/Hughes and another pitcher from FA market unless either Moose or Pettit.

    If both Moose and Andy want to come back you really just need 1, which would be option 1 from above, but if not you need both.

  95. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    “Burnett’s a risk. I like any guy who wants to pitch in NY and he’s pitched good this year but he’s no ace. And after passing on one ace last off season, they should at the very least see that passing up aces isn’t the smart or safe play.”

    Obviously as fans we are all being greedy and wishing for the best FA’s. CC would be enough, however if Burnett wants to be a Yankee and CC gives us the cold shoulder the Yanks should take a chance on getting the Burnett we saw on Tuesday night.

  96. saucY August 21st, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    “I also think if Sidney Ponson finishes up strong this month the Yankees should invite him to spring training. No one knows how next season is going to look and he and the Yankees seem to be a good match.”

    i wouldn’t rule out Sid getting offered a ML contract this offseason by someone, which would trump a spring training invite. but if not, i’m all for inviting him to ST…

  97. Hughes Dynasty August 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    Hughes is obviously a favorite of mine but if we could get a young, stud position prospect for him, I’d trade him. Especially if we do indeed sign CC.

  98. Phelps Phan August 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    “Pavano couldn’t carry Burnett’s jock strap. I know his injury past is a bit troubling but this year he has thrown 170+ innings with a month to go. Burnett unlike Idle actually seems to have passion for the game.”

    Granted, he has (alot) more talent than Pavano, & he seems like he wants to play & contribute, & all thats good. But that wont stop a something in his elbow from ripping or tearing. The guy had Tommy John surgery like 4 yr ago. & It usually flares up once or twice a year.

    I’d like to sign him, just not for alot of money & years. Which of course, he’s expecting.

    Plus, you act like he’s dominant. I’d put him behind Mussina & Pettite. Yea, he has more talent,but he also has an ERA somewhere in the 4′s. 4.51 to be exact. He’s underachieved for all the talent that he has, even when he’s healthy.

  99. Doreen August 21st, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    Saucy -

    Yeah, probably they should offer him a contract, not just an invitation. :)

  100. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    The 1st team to land one of the big FA, will set the tone of how the market will be as far as price, CC will get much more than Burnett.

  101. SJ44 August 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    Doreen,

    Agreed. If both Moose and Andy come back, that would be the best way to go. You definitely invite Ponson back for ST. To me, that’s no brainer. He’s earned it.

    You then have to prioritize which guy you are going to get. Its probably going to be between CC and AJ for a variety of reasons.

    Whichever they prioritize, its a MUST they sign that pitcher. No excuses, no nothing. Get that guy in the fold.

    At that point, you have options. You have enough pitching depth in the organization to be able to peel off a couple of guys and bring back a solid position player along with a good bench player.

    Under this scenario, you will also have enough pitching depth in case Wang isn’t ready to start next year, or you suffer injuries in the spring.

    If they decide to trade Cano, he’s another valuable chip.

    However, it all starts with pitching. You rebuild from the pitching staff out. They need to have that firmed up before venturing into the other areas needed to improve the team for 2009.

  102. Vader August 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    True SJ, but realistically, how long should it take to see fruits of the Yankees farm system, SP wise?

    I always thought the rule of thumb use to be a SP should have around 400 minor league innings in him before he was ready for the show and even then he would take his lumps in the Majors.

  103. Bronx Jeers August 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    ““This is a really strange season, now Steve P******s gives us a shot at post-season,”

    The biggest moron in broadcasting just hates the Yankees and knows that anything he says always works out to be the opposite.

  104. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    saucy,
    What did you think about my second list from yesterday.

    donny baseball
    rolly fingers
    the babe
    albert puhol

    Any make your top 10?

  105. COL 88 August 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    If we don’t get Sabathia, I would dabble with Sheets/Brunett.

    Brunett does have a 1.98 career ERA vs. Boston, 2.98 carrer ERA vs. Tampa. He seems to be a guy who needs to be in a winning situation to be motivated.

    If he takes a 3-4 yr deal, I think i’d do it.

  106. man on a mission August 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    if joba comes back healthy, cant they just have him make up the innings in the fall league? he could make it to 140 that way and move on next season as planned.

  107. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    “Plus, you act like he’s dominant. I’d put him behind Mussina & Pettite. Yea, he has more talent,but he also has an ERA somewhere in the 4’s. 4.51 to be exact. He’s underachieved for all the talent that he has, even when he’s healthy.”

    178 K’s in 171 IP no thats not dominant at all. Hold your horses on Moose he is having a career year at 39. Burnett is a dominant guy like it or not.

  108. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    I hate to say it, but Boston will have some money, I would hate for them to land Burnett for their rotation.

    Beckett
    Lester
    Burnett
    Dice-K
    Wake or a rookie…….

  109. man on a mission August 21st, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    id rather go for sheets or burnett, especially if we can get them to sign a 3 year deal. no way i go 6 or 7 yrs for cc. i like him but its way too long for a pitcher at $20M+/year.

  110. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    “if joba comes back healthy, cant they just have him make up the innings in the fall league? he could make it to 140 that way and move on next season as planned.”

    I am glad someone else noticed this before I did. He can get to 140 in the fall league easily thats about 4-5 starts in the fall league. Next year you can proceed as planned.

  111. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    “Beckett
    Lester
    Burnett
    Dice-K
    Wake or a rookie…….”

    Not happening.

  112. Patrick â„¢ August 21st, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    Honestly, I think this offseason is all about getting Sabathia. He is as sure a thing as they come and he only costs money and a draft pick. I hope the Yankees go all out to get him, I don’t want them getting outbid no matter how high they have to go. Burnett and Sheets have shown injury problems and inconsistency in the past. They are both very talented (Sheets more so IMO) but I wouldn’t really want to risk either. CC OR BUST!

  113. Vader August 21st, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Do you think CC is going to want years or $$ in his contract?

    I mean and if I were the Yankees I would think this way, give him the amount he wants not the years.

    I’d rather see them give him a few extra million a year over 4-5 years, than give him a 6-7 year deal and have some dead weight at the end of the contract.

    And I know…with CC that will be a lot of weight.

  114. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    “I hate to say it, but Boston will have some money, I would hate for them to land Burnett for their rotation.

    Beckett
    Lester
    Burnett
    Dice-K
    Wake or a rookie…….”

    Scarier than that would be
    C.C.
    Beckett
    Dice
    Lester
    Who cares

    Some rumors have Boston going after Sabathia.

  115. Redding August 21st, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Well, I’d imagine if they shut down Joba for the rest of the season, they won’t send him to fall league.

    He says he feels fine, but the Yankees are being conservative with him. The Yankees have to think about next year, which is going to be a big year for the franchise. If he is healthy, you have to let him pitch. Also it is best for him to know his shoulder is fine before the long off-season, rather than having than having that linger in his mind.

    Really, it hurts Hughes more than anyone else. Now, I don’t see any way they guarantee him a rotation spot next year considering Joba will be on innings limits as well. Now it is crucial for them to get 4 innings eaters in front of Joba.

  116. Phelps Phan August 21st, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    “178 K’s in 171 IP no thats not dominant at all. Hold your horses on Moose he is having a career year at 39. Burnett is a dominant guy like it or not.”

    178K’s in 171IP is dominant, FOR A RELIEVER. RASNER HAS ABOUT THE SAME ERA. PONSON HAS ABOUT THE SAME ERA. You would put up with just about 5 runs a game as long as he gets a strikeout or two every inning ? comee onnn

  117. Jack Ryan August 21st, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    You’re being unfair to Clay Buchholz by grouping him with others like Hughes and Kennedy. Even if Buchholz has ERA of zero, the cumulative ERA for the group would still be unsightly.

  118. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men):

    Why not, that is a possibility..

  119. wolf man (2008 is over) August 21st, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    boston will be big players in the FA pitching market. they have money coming off the books as well.

    i can definitely see them going for perez or brunett because theo loves yankee killers. if beckett does indeed need TJs, then i can see them going hard after CC.

  120. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh):

    Absolutely scarier, give CC what ever he wants……

  121. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh:

    And scarier would be that rotation against this line-up next year……….

  122. bavd backwards August 21st, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    any official word on our American Idle ?

  123. SJ44 August 21st, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    The only way you can justify losing CC this off-season is if he takes less money elsewhere. If that happens, you salvage it by signing Burnett.

    There won’t be any discounts in free agency. AJ Burnett will get a 5 year offer from somebody. Nobody is opting out of a deal to sign a lesser deal. That’s not how free agency works.

    You have big market teams like the Angels, Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers (if the McCourt’s loosen the purse strings) with money to spend this off-season.

    If you think you are going to get a CC Sabathia or an AJ Burnett, or any top end FA pitcher for that matter, on a deal less than 5 years, you are crazy. Its not happening.

    I agree with Patrick, the off-season really does depend on CC. He’s under 30, an ace, LH in home ballpark that is great for LH pitchers, and a solid character guy.

    If the Yankees were to sign him, along with bringing back Moose and Pettitte, they would have true starting pitching depth for the first time in years.

    That makes it a whole lot easier to fix the other areas of the team that need repair.

  124. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    With Boston having money to spend also:

    There are 4 starter’s I don’t want them to have.
    1. CC
    2. Burnett
    3. Moose
    4. Pettit

  125. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Burnett would have to take a pay cut, he can’t expect to be paid like an All Star SP when he can’t even stay healthy. I’d take a shot but at a reasonable price. 8-10 mill per yr. for 3 yrs w/ the 3rd having a team option.

  126. Chris V. August 21st, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    What does everyone think the market will be for Ben Sheets and A.J. Burnett? Will 3-4 years at 13-15 million a year get it done?

    I think the yankees priority should be to sign 2 of the 3: CC, Burnett and Sheets.

  127. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    “178K’s in 171IP is dominant, FOR A RELIEVER. RASNER HAS ABOUT THE SAME ERA. PONSON HAS ABOUT THE SAME ERA. You would put up with just about 5 runs a game as long as he gets a strikeout or two every inning ? comee onnn”

    Do you watch baseball? A 4ish ERA in the AL East is not terrible Beckett has a 4 and a half-ish ERA you wouldn’t want him on your team? You must not get to see a lot of games if you compare Burnett to Rasner.

  128. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    *Ponson.

  129. church201 August 21st, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    sabathia is the only one i’m going after. burnett’s season is an abberation,having a career year in a contract year(that seems to be the norm for a boras client).

    austin jackson should be comepeting for the Cf spot next ST.

    and at first, trade for conor jackson, he may not be the defensive first baseman, he’s a good bat and still young.

    another option, and a big risk, how about nick johnson again?

  130. bavd backwards August 21st, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    Hey what happens if Pavano goes 4-0 with a 1.75 ERA over the last few weeks of the Season…you keep him,,,right ? ( jk )

  131. Bronx Jeers August 21st, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    Al from BK

    Its just with AJ, I see one good season preceded by a bunch of mediocre injury plagued ones. Even this season his record seems to better than his performance.

    The argument against Pavano in the first place was that he had one good year and we were giving up 40 mil for a .500 career pitcher. This is what I see in AJ. We’ve passed on guys because of this lingering “Pavano effect” so now we’re going to sign the guy who most resembles Pavano career wise?

  132. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    “4. Pettit”

    You can cross him off your list. He is a die hard Yankee and turned down a bigger offer a few years back from boston to go to houston. A true Yankee.

  133. pat August 21st, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Pettitte has said numerous times NY or Houston were the only places he would ever pitch. I don’t think that would change now.

  134. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    “With Boston having money to spend also:

    There are 4 starter’s I don’t want them to have.
    1. CC
    2. Burnett
    3. Moose
    4. Pettit”

    The latter 2 of those 4 would never consider Boston. Do you think the Yanks are getting outbid by anybody for CC realistically? If CC snubs us it will be to stay in the NL or go to the West coast.

  135. man on a mission August 21st, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    “Well, I’d imagine if they shut down Joba for the rest of the season, they won’t send him to fall league.”

    who said anything about shutting him down for the season. if they were even thinking of doing that, do you think they would have had him out there throwing in the OF in toronto or would have scheduled him to throw off a mound this w/e?

    honestly, you’d think the guy’s arm fell off the way some ppl on here talk about joba. he felt a twinge, so they decided to shut him down for a few weeks as a precaution. why cant anybody believe this, why does it have to be like he has terminal cancer and nobody wants to say anything?

    i’ll belive there’s something seriously wrong with him when he they tell him not to throw anymore. otherwise, i assume he’s a healthy young guy who had a little shoulder fatigue.

  136. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    “another option, and a big risk, how about nick johnson again?”

    I dont know who’s been on the dl more. Butt hurt(aka idle) or Nick.

  137. saucY August 21st, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    sos, ‘rolly fingers’ makes the cut! :lol: maybe i’m just slow, but i don’t get the others. what is the verb?

  138. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    Bronx Jeers:

    Burnett always had better stuff than Pavano.

  139. YankeesFanNick August 21st, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    While that is a good point about Boston looking for pitchers this offseason as well, I’d think that Pettitte would retire if the Yankees didn’t resign him. I doubt that Moose would go there, or that the Red Sox would sign him.

    I’m hoping for a

    Sabathia
    Wang
    Burnett
    Joba
    Pettitte

    but it doesn’t seem that likely.

  140. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    “Al from BK

    Its just with AJ, I see one good season preceded by a bunch of mediocre injury plagued ones. Even this season his record seems to better than his performance.

    The argument against Pavano in the first place was that he had one good year and we were giving up 40 mil for a .500 career pitcher. This is what I see in AJ. We’ve passed on guys because of this lingering “Pavano effect” so now we’re going to sign the guy who most resembles Pavano career wise?”

    Touche. Obviously CC should be priority number 1. However is he snubs NY(which is a possibility) we should look elsewhere and I don’t trust Sheets coming the AL. It is not my money we are talking about its the Yankees money so why not sign Burnett if all else fails. Burnett at least wouldn’t fake injury and I think he would get us more than 4 wins in 4 years.

  141. pat August 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    I just saw the Yanks have a 13 million option on Pavano for next year. Slim chance Cashman could pull a Sheffield but it would serve Pavano right not getting to control where he pitches next year.

  142. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    I do agree if we get CC, Pettit says he’s coming back, Moose will not take a 1yr deal I don’t think but if he does, we are done……if not you gotta like Burnett over Sheets.

  143. Phelps Phan August 21st, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    “Do you watch baseball? A 4ish ERA in the AL East is not terrible Beckett has a 4 and a half-ish ERA you wouldn’t want him on your team? You must not get to see a lot of games if you compare Burnett to Rasner.”

    No its not terrible, but im not spending 10-15 mil for it. Everyeone knows Beckett isnt having a good year A bad year perhaps so why even bring that up ? You cant offer a guy a big fat contract cause he strikes out 2 batters every inning. an ERA in the mid 4′s DOES NOT MAKE YOU DOMINIANT.

  144. Fredo Corleone August 21st, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    “Burnett would have to take a pay cut, he can’t expect to be paid like an All Star SP when he can’t even stay healthy. I’d take a shot but at a reasonable price. 8-10 mill per yr. for 3 yrs w/ the 3rd having a team option.”

    That offer would be good for a few chuckles from his agent.

  145. Josh August 21st, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    IPK is going to be an average pitcher at best. Hughes may be something if he can stay healthy. Clay needs to get some mental strength. Sadly though, he owns those two wins, a no-hitter, and a ring.

    About Joba, I wish he was in the bullpen. He was great there and we will eventually need a closer. I’d be suprised if he can last a full season in the starter position. He seems to throw more than pitch and that will lead to the DL.

    One guy who I would want over any of these kids is Jon Lester. His career record is 24-6 with a 3.87 ERA. He was the winning pitcher of the clinching game of the WS. Has thrown a no-hitter and complete game shut-out against…well…you know… Did I mention he’s 24 years old?

  146. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    ““Well, I’d imagine if they shut down Joba for the rest of the season, they won’t send him to fall league.”

    who said anything about shutting him down for the season. if they were even thinking of doing that, do you think they would have had him out there throwing in the OF in toronto or would have scheduled him to throw off a mound this w/e?

    honestly, you’d think the guy’s arm fell off the way some ppl on here talk about joba. he felt a twinge, so they decided to shut him down for a few weeks as a precaution. why cant anybody believe this, why does it have to be like he has terminal cancer and nobody wants to say anything?

    i’ll belive there’s something seriously wrong with him when he they tell him not to throw anymore. otherwise, i assume he’s a healthy young guy who had a little shoulder fatigue.”

    I would not call him back up to the big team just let him get his work in at AAA when hes ready.

  147. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    That offer would be good for a few chuckles from his agent.

    I’d love to see his agent bamboozle a team to 5 yrs. plus w/ a SP that can’t stay healthy

  148. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    “I just saw the Yanks have a 13 million option on Pavano for next year. Slim chance Cashman could pull a Sheffield but it would serve Pavano right not getting to control where he pitches next year.”

    If thats true. Why not get something out of him. Let some dumb a$$ give him an extention. Mabe Detroit?

  149. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    saucy,
    I thought Poo hole was a verb? Forget it. Back to english 101.

  150. pat August 21st, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    sos

    Cot’s Contracts says 13 Million club option and 1.95 million buyout for Pavano in 2009

  151. man on a mission August 21st, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    what possible reason would they have for sending joba to the minors? do you think he will just throw at 3/4 speed there to reduce the strain. or do you think he needs to learn how to pitch to aaa batters ?(because he dominates the mlb guys?)

  152. Fredo Corleone August 21st, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    “I’d love to see his agent bamboozle a team to 5 yrs. plus w/ a SP that can’t stay healthy”

    He’ll get more than $8M – $10M. Burnett has the option of sticking with Toronto for ’09 and ’10 at $12M apiece. His agent won’t have him opt out if he knows he can’t do better. $12M per over 4 years (also known as a Carlos Silva deal) would be the absolute minimum.

  153. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    I love this according to Humpty Dumpty the Jays aren’t as competitive as the Yankees and Red Sox that should sit well w/ thier locker room especially after Ricchardi was doing the interview.

  154. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    “No its not terrible, but im not spending 10-15 mil for it. Everyeone knows Beckett isnt having a good year A bad year perhaps so why even bring that up ? You cant offer a guy a big fat contract cause he strikes out 2 batters every inning. an ERA in the mid 4’s DOES NOT MAKE YOU DOMINIANT.”

    No a 4 ERA doesn’t make you dominant, however great stuff and a high K per innings pitch does make you dominant. Ask a pro scout about pure stuff in baseball and hes up there with Halladay, Harden, Santana, Beckett, Peavy. Yes all those other pitchers have lower ERA’s but his stuff is comparable if not better than most front end guys.

  155. Bronx Jeers August 21st, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    “Burnett always had better stuff than Pavano.”

    He looked awesome Tues night and has had a real good year but Pavano had a great year in 2004 as well. All I am saying is that they shouldn’t get all smitten over an injury prone guy after he has 1 exceptional year. One’s stuff becomes irrelevant if you’re throwin it from a hospital bed.

  156. CK in LA August 21st, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    “The latter 2 of those 4 would never consider Boston. Do you think the Yanks are getting outbid by anybody for CC realistically? If CC snubs us it will be to stay in the NL or go to the West coast.”

    The Dodgers are in serious need of pitching & I think Torre can talk them into CC (if they really have the money). Penny, Lowe, Saito, Procter, et al have taken their turns on the DL. They need to protect Kershaw from Torre and CC could be just the guy to help.

  157. Joe Monte August 21st, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    You need 5 starting pitchers and Kennedy will round out the rotation. Not every pitcher is going to be a No 1 or No 2 so take him for what he is. You’re never going to have 5 No 1 pitchers in your rotation.

    BTW, for all of the criticism the Yankees have taken this year, where is all of the criticism for the Tigers? Remember Sports Illustrated and other polls had them winning it all?

  158. YankeesFanNick August 21st, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Okay, I am just suggesting this, but I’d like you guys to tell me how likely/good of a trade this would be:

    Ian Kennedy
    Phil Coke
    Robinson Cano
    Melky Cabrera
    Player to be named

    for

    Tim Lincecum

    I know it’s not very likely, but that’d be just great.

  159. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    “I love this according to Humpty Dumpty the Jays aren’t as competitive as the Yankees and Red Sox that should sit well w/ thier locker room especially after Ricchardi was doing the interview.”

    I guess the Line of Credit has been frozen for Ricchardi.The same guy who said he will spend as much as the two giants. That didnt last long. Consumer Credit Counseling is accepting applications.

  160. Nick in SF in Vallejo August 21st, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    I’m in CC’s hometown right now. If I hear any inside info, I’ll pass it on.

    I suspect that at this point the Yanks would want to bring both Moose and Andy back — and my guess is that Moose is the more likely of the two to want to re-up.

    If we’re lucky enough to get them both back along with Wang and a Hefty FA pitcher to be named later, then we are really only counting on Joba and Hughes to combine to fill the 5th spot. Done creatively, that could give us a killer rotation for ’09 while laying the groundwork for a greater role for the kids in’10.

    That rosy scenario all hinges on the FA signing, of course. But it’s nice to dream.

  161. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    “what possible reason would they have for sending joba to the minors? do you think he will just throw at 3/4 speed there to reduce the strain. or do you think he needs to learn how to pitch to aaa batters ?(because he dominates the mlb guys?)”

    AAA is a less hostile and easier environment for him to pitch in. Why do you want him to rush back for the 3rd place, 6 games out of the wildcard Yankees?

  162. Phelps Phan August 21st, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    “No a 4 ERA doesn’t make you dominant, however great stuff and a high K per innings pitch does make you dominant”

    Of course he has the talent,no ones doubting that, but that always doesn’t calculate to wins. & it should in no way lead to a fat contract. Not from us anyway.

  163. al arodien August 21st, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    About Steve Philphs giving us a shot at the post season;
    He always goes against the norm and hopes that if a miracle happens he could take the credit. (like trading Kasmir for Zambrano)

  164. Joe Monte August 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Lincecum will never be traded, he’s too valuable and good to trade. Besides that point, that’s an awful trade offer. You would have to give up a package that miorrs Montero, Hughes and Cano for Lincecum (based on the fact that Hughes is injury prone, Cano is inconsistent, and that Montero is a stud prospect).

  165. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Speaking of injury prone?
    What the hell was in the water in Florida? Penny,Pavano,Beckett,Burnett and that single a lefty.

  166. pat August 21st, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    Pavano it is for Saturday.

  167. man on a mission August 21st, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    if joba’s healthy, he will pitch in the majors, if not, he wont pitch. sending him down to the minors is ridiculous.

  168. sunny615 August 21st, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !)

    I’d love to see his agent bamboozle a team to 5 yrs. plus w/ a SP that can’t stay healthy
    ———————

    You might be surprised Brandon – that that team just might be the Yankees. IF Boston does somehow find a way to finagle CC (like they did Schilling), you don’t think Yankeeland won’t be yelping for their team to start throwing out money and years to land a potential 2 or 3 starter? With the likes of Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy (joba and hughes with innings limits and kennedy with ineffectiveness), I can see a situation out there where if Bahston lands CC (CC, Beckett, Lester, Dice, Wake/Bucc), Hank will be wailing for someone who struck his team out 24 times in one year.

  169. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    “He always goes against the norm and hopes that if a miracle happens he could take the credit. (like trading Kasmir for Zambrano)”

    Man i cant believe this but im starting to feel sorry for him. He didnt trade Kazmir.

  170. Josh August 21st, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Haha Pavano pitching Saturday…this will be interesting.

  171. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    “Okay, I am just suggesting this, but I’d like you guys to tell me how likely/good of a trade this would be:

    Ian Kennedy
    Phil Coke
    Robinson Cano
    Melky Cabrera
    Player to be named

    for

    Tim Lincecum

    I know it’s not very likely, but that’d be just great.”

    This package could get you Jon Sanchez who IMO is fantastic, not as good as Lincecum but then again not many are.

  172. Tiki August 21st, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    I’m sure you heard it but, if not it’s definitely Pavano.

  173. YankeesFanNick August 21st, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    What do you think the chances are of the Yankees moving Posada over to 1st next year and resigning Pudge?

  174. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    sunny615 just tell CC that Boston fans have racial issues and preorder his Knicks tickets.

  175. Bronx Jeers August 21st, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    “I’m in CC’s hometown right now.”

    Isn’t he building his dream house somewhere around there?

    Any chance you have a flair for arson?

  176. 27 this year August 21st, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    Well Pavano never really had much of an injury history before his career year.

  177. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    Cano alone gets you Jon Sanchez who IMO is fantastic, not as good as Lincecum but then again not many are.

    FIXED.

  178. andrew33 August 21st, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    so basically clay has more wins then ian and phil combined

  179. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    “You might be surprised Brandon – that that team just might be the Yankees. IF Boston does somehow find a way to finagle CC (like they did Schilling), you don’t think Yankeeland won’t be yelping for their team to start throwing out money and years to land a potential 2 or 3 starter? With the likes of Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy (joba and hughes with innings limits and kennedy with ineffectiveness), I can see a situation out there where if Bahston lands CC (CC, Beckett, Lester, Dice, Wake/Bucc), Hank will be wailing for someone who struck his team out 24 times in one year.”

    Allow me to reiterate my point this is not going to happen. CC is a West coast guy if he does decide to come to the East coast at all it wont be to pitch in that filthy, green monstrosity up in Boston it will be to the Yankees.

  180. Phelps Phan August 21st, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    Ian Kennedy
    Phil Coke
    Robinson Cano
    Melky Cabrera
    Player to be named (swap for 25,000,000)

    for

    Tim Lincecum

  181. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    “I’m in CC’s hometown right now.”

    N.C. one month. Now this. How are those frequent flyer miles working out for ya nick?

  182. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    “Cano alone gets you Jon Sanchez who IMO is fantastic, not as good as Lincecum but then again not many are.

    FIXED.”

    Very true I noticed this as soon as I hit enter, thanks for the correction.

  183. man on a mission August 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    just to clarify, vallejo, where cc is from is in the northern bay area, but i hear he’s building his dream house in orange county, south of l.a.

  184. stuart August 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    Sign Burnett and you will regret it.. he is pitching well now for a contract, he is not a smart man and does just enough to lose.. Look at his career #’s, they are a joke…

    yeah 5 guys for Lincecum a 180 lb pitcher and 1 25 yr old allstar, NO…NO…..

    pettitte or moose only 1 take back….

  185. Anonomouys August 21st, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    Pettite IS starting Saturday.

  186. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter. August 21st, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    (I just put this down below but then realized that the jump had been made to higher ground. So I’m putting it here “just because”. It really has as much to do with my notion of being a fan in general.)

    Pete asked how staggering it was to think that we could be playing for our lives with a 60% rotation of Rasner, Ponson, and Pavano.)

    Hey Pete, how staggering was it feeling you were playing for your lives with Shawn Chacon and Aaron Small? It was until it wasn’t.

    Playing for your lives with Rasner and Ponson should only feel staggering if you’re a loser. Both have more than shown they’re equal to the task. Which brings me to another point. I don’t care if Ponson ends up giving up 25 runs tonight (well I do care, but I’m just trying to make a point here) – we should still bring out the fatted calf and have a celebration for what he has done for the Yankees. I am sick to death of the Yankee fan cum “what have you done for me lately” crew. If you don’t have the common sense to appreciate a body of work intead of heaving every time something doesn’t go your way, try the BabiesRUs site!

    (I meant to put this below but forgot: Pavano, of course, remains to be seen.)

  187. Anonomouys August 21st, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    I meant Pavano… damn P’s

  188. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    just to clarify, vallejo, where cc is from is in the northern bay area, but i hear he’s building his dream house in orange county, south of l.a.

    Uhuh and ? He can have dream house come baseball season alot can change.

  189. S.A.-Can the Yanks win some games? Starting today? This offense is still offensive. August 21st, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Pavano on Saturday. Time to stock up on some hard liquor.

  190. Mo August 21st, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    that is why u trade for guys like santana when u can. One prospect pitcher in 20 becomes good. We got Joba. Hughes n IPK should have been moved.

  191. man on a mission August 21st, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    over/under on how many more people jump in to ‘break’ the pavano news is 4.

    ill take the over. cant anybody be bothered to read a few posts before they annouce things?

  192. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    “Yankee fan cum crew?”

    Can you say that on this blog? There are kids who read this stuff Trish.

    You could say Poohole though.

  193. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter. August 21st, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Brandon, I guess you saw that Damon actually figured out how to play like a major leaguer last night?

    Yeah I’m thinking you will see a lot of him in CF.

  194. man on a mission August 21st, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    uhuh and….

    i was referring to the guy above who asked nick in sf if he had a flair for arson b/c he’s in vallejo. doesnt help if cc’s dream house is 400 miles to the south.

  195. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    “Sign Burnett and you will regret it.. he is pitching well now for a contract, he is not a smart man and does just enough to lose.. Look at his career #’s, they are a joke…

    yeah 5 guys for Lincecum a 180 lb pitcher and 1 25 yr old allstar, NO…NO…..”

    Stuart can you go away. Anybody who would mock Lincecum has obviously never seen him pitch.

  196. Matt - NYY fan in Boston August 21st, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    Here’s my opinion to address everything:
    First base issue
    Do not resign Giambi, I repeat DO NOT RESIGN GIAMBI. If we can try and sign Teixeira, do it. If not, than maybe look within the organization and maybe give Cuban 1B Juan Miranda an opportunity. He hits well w/ RISP and smashes righties, but also struggles vs lefty pitchers. He’s a lefty bat, which you can view that however which way you want to.

    Starting Pitchers
    Priority number 1 is to get CC Sabathia. He is the ace we need and can give rest to the bullpen. A 5 yr deal worth $125 mil could do it for him. Some may think it’s overpaid but just look at it: Not a 7 yr deal (Barry Zito) and we wouldn’t have to deal with the issues of his overweight stature and his potential decline as he ages. If we cannot get CC, than go for AJ Burnett. I’d rather have Burnett than Sheets, mainly because Burnett dominates the AL East. Both have injury concerns and both are relatively the same age (Sheets is 30, Burnett is 31). If we can’t get Burnett, than go ahead and make a pitch for Sheets. For the deal with Mussina and Pettitte, make sure you resign 1 of them. If Mussina doesn’t win 20 games this yr than the only way he could possibly be a HOF’er is if he gets 300 wins in my opinion.

    Other stuff
    Let Abreu, Marte, Pudge, Pavano, etc. walk and leave as free agents. Get draft picks for them, start another (Yankee-phrase) “rebuilding” process which would let a ton of salary come off and draft a lot of prospects.

    *Only if we trade Cano*
    For those who want to trade Cano, make sure you can get a 2nd baseman in return, someone like Mike Aviles of the Royals. KC has been interested in Melky for a while and possibly him, Kennedy, and someone else could get Aviles and possibly David DeJesus.

    Also, Pavano is starting Saturday vs Baltimore. My prediction for his line can be described in 3 words: Jose Lima Syndrome.

  197. YankeesFanNick August 21st, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    Just read a good article on the MLB section of ESPN.com about little league baseball (Danny Almonte and Matt Cerda). Pretty interesting.

    Meanwhile Mike Francesca made a joke about Pavano having one start to prove he’s worth the 40 million.

  198. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter. August 21st, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    S.O.S. – !

    :)

    I know you know I was using the Latin form colloquialism!

  199. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    trisha what ball was hit hard off Pettitte and we went against a soft tossing LHP what did you expect ? :lol:

  200. BB August 21st, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    “Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy and Clay Buchholz are 2-17 with a 7.52 ERA. They’ve thrown only 137.2 innings.”

    It’s obvious that these young guys haven’t get ready on mlb yet.Buchholz had a good attitude after game than IPK, and he gained at least 2 wins.Hughes and IPK gained 0 win.

  201. S.o.S.27(Bolt is on hgh) August 21st, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    “over/under on how many more people jump in to ‘break’ the pavano news is 4.

    ill take the over. cant anybody be bothered to read a few posts before they annouce things?”

    lol. Over.

    Speaking of over/under. Over under on what inning Mr.Glass gets pulled for pulling the right side of his glutius maximus? 3rd inning

  202. Al from BK(Broadway Brett will own the G-men) August 21st, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    “that is why u trade for guys like santana when u can. One prospect pitcher in 20 becomes good. We got Joba. Hughes n IPK should have been moved.”

    Did you get the memo. Santana talks have been officially banned on this blog. Cant wait til we get CC so the Santana people can run and hide.

  203. man on a mission August 21st, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    “Let Abreu, Marte, Pudge, Pavano, etc. walk and leave as free agents. Get draft picks for them”

    you only get draft pics if you offer arbitration and the leave. pudge and pavano would certainly accept arbitration and abreu might. you have to offer 80% of thier current salary.

  204. Brandon ( FIRE LONG ! clapclap clapclapclap, botalo a la basura !) August 21st, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Pavano on Saturday. Time to stock up on some hard liquor.

    The good thing is that it will be a Saturday so drinking liquor on that day can be passed as preparing for the night.

  205. yankeefan91 August 21st, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    swenny murti reported pavano pitching on saturday

  206. saucY August 21st, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    “over/under on how many more people jump in to ‘break’ the pavano news is 4.

    ill take the over. cant anybody be bothered to read a few posts before they annouce things?”

    this post made my afternoon :D – over without a doubt

    i also wouldn’t go putting together 5 player packages for Lincecum.

  207. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop (My Latest Blog Entry: Maybe the tough love approach will work? Great video, too) August 21st, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Pavano should have a blog. I’m sure it would be an amusing read.

  208. Bronx Jeers August 21st, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Son the P Man gets his day in the sun in a Yankee uniform. Our collective Con Ed sponsored Yankee travel mug runneth over!

    And in related news……

    All bears have been deemed Catholic and the Pope just took a dump in the woods.

  209. Josh August 21st, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Ok everyone, it was confirmed several minutes ago by others that PAVANO IS PITCHING SATURDAY.

    Please stop “updating” us and take the time to read posts.

  210. Matt - NYY fan in Boston August 21st, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    To man on a mission:
    Obviously don’t offer arbitration to Pavano as he won’t be worth any picks. I read somewhere that with the Pudge deal, he said he wouldn’t accept arbitration given to him.

  211. Phelps Phan August 21st, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Why does everyone want either Pettite or Moose , & not both ?

    We need both, not one or the other. Getting them back is Priority #2, right after CC. Pettite did just as good as Mussina’s doing now earlier this year when Mussina wasn’t doing all that fancy. & Now Mosse is doing better when Pettite is havign some minor inconsistencies. Unless one retires, BRING BOTH BACK. NO IF’S, AND’s or BUT’s about it.

  212. saucY August 21st, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    “I read somewhere that with the Pudge deal, he said he wouldn’t accept arbitration given to him.”

    nice to hear. my respect for that guy just grew a little…

  213. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    I think Sid will be good tonight, I just hope this offense can get some runs against Roy and take some heat off of him…

  214. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    It sucks to really need a game and be facing Roy, also tonight would be a good time to bench Giambi and move x to 1b, and you know who should be in CF……

  215. YankeesFanNick August 21st, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Well that’s interesting.

    YES is airing the Red Sox/Yankees game at Fenway (Joba vs Beckett) as a Yankees classic.

  216. CK in LA August 21st, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    “Pavano on Saturday. Time to stock up on some hard liquor.

    The good thing is that it will be a Saturday so drinking liquor on that day can be passed as preparing for the night.”

    It’s a 7P start …..

  217. Real World August 21st, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    What’s with all the love for AJ Burnett? Sure the kid has terrific stuff, but he’s been incredibly inconsistent over his career. He’s never had more than 12 wins in any year before this season. In 9 seasons prior to this year, he’s pitched 200 innings twice. Since 2002 at the age of 25, when he threw 209 innings, he’s pitched 23, 120, 209, 135, and 165 innings in each season respectively. He’s made 30 starts in only two seasons prior to this year. The guy won’t sniff the mound if he thinks there’s something wrong with him. I love his stuff, but he comes with some red flags. In other words, buyer beware.

  218. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    I really would love to have Andy & Moose back, sign CC and another FA pitcher…maybe Wheeler……..for the pen

  219. Glenn August 21st, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    Let Buchholz, Hughes, and Kennedy be poster boys of how important it is to look beyond their talent before declaring them phenoms and blowing them up out of proportion.
    It’s equally important to get inside their heads and understand their backgrounds before ever signing them to a professional contract.
    Many players have been rushed to the big leagues strictly by talent alone and when they stumble, their mental capacities didn’t know how to handle some failure.

  220. Josh August 21st, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    How is that Joba/Beckett game a Classic? It showcases our failure to score more than two runs. In fact, the only run scored in that game was the bloop single that beat the Giambi shift…

  221. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Giambi has on sacrifice, and 5 K’s in his last 6 AB’s.

  222. Real World August 21st, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Pavano is going to pitch terrific down the stretch. It won’t matter, but that is what happens in contract years.

  223. Fredo Corleone August 21st, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    “Pavano should have a blog. I’m sure it would be an amusing read.”

    But a short one. He’d have carpel tunnels inside a week.

  224. luis August 21st, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    4 things:

    1. this should be the rotation next year cc/wang/sheets/joba/moose or pettitte…. its time not to be cheap, im sick that every single season the yankees dont get the starters they need, and at the end when they are struggling they try to get some below averague pitcher (chacon, leiter, ponson )i know some of them make the team better, but in october when games really matter they suck…. pitching should be the priority this offseason, speacially if we miss the playoffs

    2. keep hughes and kennedy next year in the minors… let them pitch a whole year in AAA, dont rush them, thats why you have a good rotation in the first place, i think both are very talented (specially hughes)

    3. i dont want to go into the past, but last year you have 2 good CF in the free agency, rowland and hunter… i knew hunter would be expensive, but i still dont get it why the yankees didnt go after rowland.. now this year theres no CF avaible and ajax is not ready, so im a little bit concern about this, i think they should buyout giambis option next year… he is just batting .250, i would prefer someone batting .280 – .290 with less than 10 HR than giambi, but still besides mark teixeira theres no good fit for the yankees avaible

    4. abreu should go too, i like nady in the right field… to get a decent CF this are my trade candidates: melky, matsui, gardner, betemit and kennedy….i know its not going to happend and im just dreaming but i would love to have manny on my team, can u imagine this lineup DH Damon, SS Jeter, 1B Teixeira, 3B Arod, LF Manny, RF Nady, C Posada, 2B Cano, CF some guy except melky or gardner

    thoughts????

  225. Fredo Corleone August 21st, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    “I read somewhere that with the Pudge deal, he said he wouldn’t accept arbitration given to him.”

    nice to hear. my respect for that guy just grew a little…”

    Be even nicer to hear if it were true.

  226. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    Post-CF benching we are 1 and 1, not to late to right the wrong.

  227. BB August 21st, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Yankees being Yankees.
    Yankees must to be a victory team.
    I hope Cashman has a eyesight and ability to sign the best pitchers for the team.
    After all,the pitcher is the key of the game victory or defeat.

  228. Fredo Corleone August 21st, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    “Post-CF benching we are 1 and 1, not to late to right the wrong.”

    Putting Gardner up vs. Halladay??? That’s like feeding a Christian to the lions.

  229. Bobby August 21st, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    http://theblogofchampions.com/.....son-plans/

  230. Timothy Clougher August 21st, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    Against Roy, Gardner has more upside than Giambi…5 K’s in his last 6 AB’s…

  231. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter. August 21st, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    “trisha what ball was hit hard off Pettitte and we went against a soft tossing LHP what did you expect ? ”

    You might be right. Johnny’s 4 hits didn’t hurt. He actually made a really good catch in left center, so there was at least one hard ball hit out there. So here’s the difference at least in a game like that. When you have your offense up and running, you can actually potentially withstand a bad play here and there – not that you want to have to.

    With Doc going, I certainly would try to have my best defense in there if it didn’t potentially hurt the offense. So there we have a conundrum right away. Sui has been hitting them hard and he ended up finally having one drop in. You don’t want his bat out of the lineup even for the hopeful situation of sacrificing in a run or moving someone over. Damon’s bat has heated up again. You hate to take him out because you want some chance of getting runners on base. Against Doc, I don’t put out a newbie (Gardner).

    Who knows how Girardi will play it. If he does it with less than all of the vets I’ll be shocked. But, I hope he does get to the point of defensive replacement in the late innings if games are tight!

  232. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter. August 21st, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Interesting because I expect Pavano to be lights out. He actually always has been until the injury bug hits…

  233. Patrick â„¢ August 21st, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    “Interesting because I expect Pavano to be lights out. He actually always has been until the injury bug hits…”

    Sorry but this is false. He’s had one good season in his entire career.

  234. TKinDC August 21st, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    “Sorry but this is false. He’s had one good season in his entire career.”

    Don’t get all ‘truth-y’ about this. ;)

  235. nyyfaninlaaland August 21st, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    Some things to consider on FA pitchers:

    We talk a lot about the IP limits on young pitchers which is based on some studies showing a correlation between big IP jumps and injury.

    But there’s an even better correlation out there – the 3500 pitch level. Lately (this decade) a very high percentage of pitchers reaching this level have issues with arm injury or declining effectiveness within 2 seasons, often taking until the 2nd year afterwards. Typically few reach this level lately – no more than 10 per season. The correlation is higher when that level is repeated. It’s a notably high correlation, but like any, has exceptions.

    http://kobayashibaseball.blogs.....-club.html

    CC is working on his second straight 3500 pitch season.

    As an example, to look at another candidate, Sheets threw 3500 pitches in 2002 and 2004, close in 2003. Missed much of the following 3 seasons with injury, never making more than 24 starts through 2007. In 2008 he’s tracking towards that number again, though he might fall just short if we exclude the playoffs. To me this measure makes more sense than the IP one, since it’s pitches that cause stress and P/IP can vary. Wang for example has never come close to this level (top is 3055 in ’06) due to P/IP efficiency.

    On Burnett, an anecdote.

    My son just finished law school. Last year he had a sports business class. An agent came in to speak, and was asked who insiders thought had the best stuff among ML pitchers. He immediately responded Burnett. Then went on to say that he was completely self-involved – much more concerned about his stats and performance – to the point where he was notorious for checking radar readings of pitches on the scoreboard, etc. Now, he’s also young, so some immaturity is to be expected. Just thought it was a good story.

    Burnett’s’s never hit the 3500 pitch mark. His highs are in the 3200′s in ’02 and ’05. Was injured in the 2 years following each of those. Maybe he’s just more fragile.

    He’s 2nd in MLB in pitches in 2008.

    The impact often comes 2 seasons out. The numbers:

    2007: Zambrano, Haren, Peavy, Kazmir, Harang, Sabathia, Meche, D. Cabrera.
    Close (3400+): Willis, Francis, Blanton, Dice-K, Vasquez, Webb, Arroyo, Zito.

    2006: Arroyo, Harang, Zito, Zambrano, Willis, Smoltz, Lackey
    Close: L. Hernandez, Haren, D. Davis, Pettitte, J. Schmidt, J. Santana, T. Hudson

    2005: L. Hernandez, Zito, Davis, Capuano, Oswalt, Zambrano, Willis, N. Lowry.
    Close: Lackey, Buerhle, B. Myers, R. Johnson, Harang

    2008 tracking:
    2800+ pitches to date: Cain, Burnett, Meche, Verlander.
    2700+: Guthrie, Lincecum, D. Cabrera, Halladay, Pettitte.
    2600+: E. Santana, Billingsley, J. Santana, Hamels, Arroyo, U. Jimenez, Dempster, Haren, Vasquez, Lilly, Volquez, Lester

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