Joba takes another step
-
- August
- 25
According to Brian Cashman, Joba Chamberlain “threw well” during his bullpen session today at the Stadium.
He threw 35 pitches after warming up in the outfield.
Joba will stay with the Yankees and is scheduled to throw a longer session on Thursday. Obviously the Yankees are taking this process slowly, as well they should.
Unless there is some startling development, this will conclude the blogging for today. Plenty to do tomorrow with the Red Sox in town. Sam Borden and I will be at the Stadium to bring you all the news.
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on Monday, August 25th, 2008 at 3:27 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
I wonder if they will step it up a little if they win vs. Boston.
Everyday Eddie Guardardo back home to the Twins. That’s a nice pick up.
Don’t fool w/ that arm either he can throw 80-90 pitches per start or shut him down.
so humberto sanchez is permanently a reliever now right?
looks like it ^^^
Yeah, Sanchez is a reliever. His best case scenario is a late inning guy. His reality is probably middle relief.
Yankees FO upset w/(YANKEE OFFENSE) Arod, Jetes, Cano
- via John Heyman
next years pen competition is going to be intense
rivera, marte, melancon, sanchez, veras, bruney, edwar, giese, robertson, albaladejo, coke, patterson
You know we went through 125+ posts on that last thread which was about rotation woes and I didn’t see a single person mention a certain Venezuelan Lefty. I think we may be moving on.
Just wanted to point that out and have no interest in going further.
LOL on that, Brandon. They needed to leak that to Heyman? We’ve been crying about it all season. Jeter and Cano are coming around with Alex not far behind.
Well, maybe the Yankees are trying to motivate the guys. Sounds like a different tune than what Hank was singing a couple weeks ago.
we should have acquired santana
Given the fact that every real pitching prospect in the organization but two (Melancon and McAllister) has been on the DL at least once this season, I’m not exactly brimming with confidence at this organizations plan for it’s pitchers .
In other words, I hope they don’t screw up with Joba.
If they do, nobody involved will survive the purge that would take place.
Hank seems to be out on an island with his perspectives on the team and baseball in general, atleast in relation to the rest of the organization.
mel how long have we been talking about this crap, it pisses me off that NOW…NOW THEY WANT TO ADDRESS…Man F*** this offense and the FO
And how is Kevin Long in the clear !
Brandon
I used to think that Heyman was always in the know and the first to break stories but after listening to him on WFAN this year it seems like a Magic 8 Ball is as inciteful as he is.
rivera, marte, melancon, sanchez, veras, bruney, edwar, giese, robertson, albaladejo, coke, patterson
Rivera
Marte
Melancon
Giese (long guy)
Veras
Coke
Bruney (last choice)
And on the 8th day The Lord said Let There Be Hitting and Kevin Long was born. And The Lord said IT IS GOOD.
Bronx Jeers,
LOL. The only Venezuelan lefty I know is Bobby Abreu.
That Heyman. Always on top of things. Next he will report that the Mets got Johan Santana
Mel,
Good one. Abreu is a perfectly acceptable Venezuelan lefty.
Somebody actually mentioned the other right after I posted but no one took the bait.
Heyman is the king of stating the obvious.
Listening to him on Mike and the Mad Dog is brutal. He was on hours before Harden and Teixeria were traded and he did not even mention a potential trade. Harden’s trade came moments after he got off the air and Tex was about an hour later.
Ralph Vachianno saids The Giants are in talks w/ Micheal Strahan (PLEASE COME BACK)
hank hal he did break the Manny deal when no one had it.
Brandon,
$8M will get the ball rolling.
Steve,
Don’t forget that there’s always room for Chris “Hackysack” Britton aka Mileage Plus.
If all it costs is $8 million, it’s a no brainer for us to bring back Strahan.
DON’T BELIEVE A WORD OF IT. THEY’RE LYING, AGAIN. Chamberlain will never pitch again. It’s a conspiracy to steal your hopes and your money.
To answer a post from a previous thread, I don’t think that the previous poster was suggesting that Ponson was average, but this his performance, over time, will revert to his own career averages. Which are rather mediocre.
He’s pitched better than what his numbers suggest he would. Of course we hope he keeps it up for as long as we need him to.
Mediocre is better than bad, which is why Rasner is the weakest link, pending more starts from Pavano. Ponson is almost certainly here for the duration of the season. The hope is that Joba can come back in time to be the #3 guy in the postseason, if applicable.
I’d give him 10 mil just come back we need you more than Fox does.
see what being away from a blog does to my brain? i literally spent almost 10 minutes trying to figure out who this Venezuelan lefty is. and Abreu was the first to come to mind.
Yanks should try and get either Millwood or Padilla, but I am sure Cash figures he has done more than enough already.
Brandon will hate me saying this, but Kevin Long is not the problem. I’ve seen him talking to the guys right after crappy at bats and then the next time they are up, they do the same thing again. Nothing he can do if they don’t follow his instruction.
If they want to can one of the coaches, it should be Meacham. The Yankees run the bases these days like they are Little Leaguers.
Let Mini Mo run the bases; he’d be an improvement.
I’m not sure how I would feel if they told us Joba was coming back, but only in the pen.
I think I’d rather see him start or not at all.
Another successful stint in the pen means more and more clamoring for him to be the next Mariano and that is totally short sighted since I saw a true #1 starter in the making with him this season and considering Cashman refused to trade for a legit #1 this past off season, the team cannot afford to let Joba slip back to the pen. He can’t become Papelbon here. We need him in the rotation.
There are no other #1 starters in the organization, at least for many many years. Please don’t give me Hughes here. You’d make yourself look silly.
If we whiff on CC and I do believe we will not get him no matter how much money we throw (although I think we will get outbid), it becomes even more important to make sure we keep developing Joba as a starter and make sure he’s healthy.
I can’t imagine the Yanks letting him throw another pitch if there is a twinge of doubt in their minds, but they have made some other unimaginable offenses under this current regime so I wouldn’t be surprised at anything.
If he comes back in the pen, I’ll be happy to have his arm back in play, but this kid has to start. Has to.
SJ,
Alot of the Yankees ‘real’ pitching prospects have been hurt as you say, but some of them still pitched more this year than they’ve ever pitched and they would have been shut down anyway. Such as Betances and Jeredia.
So does it matter if Betances and Heredia, and there are others as well, have been on the DL, if they’ve still managed to exceed their previous innings total?
I also find it funny that aftr 1 bad year you think all is lost in the Yankee organization. I dont recall hearing a peep out of you when Hughes was put in the rotation at the beginning of the year or when Joba was being transitioned. I’m pretty certain you thought both things were good ideas. Hindsight is always 20/15 however.
Padilla looks like Wario
Laura,
Brandon has issues with Long because he knows for sure that he’s telling Jeter, “Make sure you keep the ball in the infield. In fact try hitting it as hard as you can to the shortstop” And he’s telling Alex, “You’re doing good, man, keep squeezing the bat. That’s how you get POWER! And keep guessing what’s coming. I’ll give you a prize if you’re right” And he’s telling Cano, “They’re always going to throw a fastball down the middle, jump on it and it’s yours”. Of course, Cano has chosen to ignore him.
OMG literally Micheal Kay STFU ! How many leaks does this guy give out.
sj-
what about hiring rick peterson to oversee yankee pitching ?
they’d get a lot more than just a pitching coach.
A big part of Long’s job is getting through to people and getting them to change their bad habits. If any of us were in the dugout we could tell Melky to stop hacking at everything he sees. We could tell ARod that the key to his being great is going the other way with good pitches on the outer third. We could remind Cano to work counts better.
The essence of coaching is seeing a problem, diagnosing the cure AND following through. If Long can’t “coach” guys out of bad habits then his knowledge is completely useless.
The prototypical Boston goof speaks . .
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/08/shaughnessy_las.html
SI’s Jon Heyman is reporting that the Mets and Twins are engaged in “serious” discussions about a potential trade that would bring 2-time CY Young award winner Johan Santana to Queens.
Minnesota appears to be seeking high-end young talent as well as ML-ready pitching, according to a Twins source. Potential names being thrown around in the initial stages of discussions include prized Outfielder prospect Carlos Gomez along with AAA pitchers Kevin Mulvey and Philip Humber. Santana, according to people familiar with the situation, would approve his no-trade clause to go to New York and it is believed that Minnesota would grant the team a 72-hour negotiation window. Santana, 29, has one year left on his contract and has expressed displeasure with the way the Twins have handled business including trading 2B Luis Castillo to the Mets last July.
More as this breaking news unfolds.
Kay is a Jets fan right?
86W183,
You’re right to a certain extent. But according to Mattingly, the guys wouldn’t listen to him either.
Brandon, what did Kay say?
raymagnetic-
i like to think someone like sj has the ability to change his mind when the info coming in changes.
that would be a sign of intelligence wouldn’t it?
can’t knock him for that.
who knows,maybe you’ll be next to start wondering about the expertise of those who are in charge of yankee pitching prospects.
(by the way, mel, the thing you weren’t sure if I was doing in the previous thread? I was. I know it’s usually better to leave the fish in the barrel alone, but sometimes them fish need a shootin’)
Brandon, what did Kay say?
Dissing Strahan telling him don’t come back because it will be about the money.
Then he told a personal story of Randy Valarde and his wife.
Nick,
Well, next time use a grenade. You can put us all out of our misery!
I can’t see how starting 3/5ths of the Texas rotation could possibly be any better than what the Yanks have now. Not sure that I’d want either one of Millwood or Padilla, considering what Texas will ask as payment in talent, and, that’s assuming that the players get through waivers.
“SI’s Jon Heyman is reporting that the Mets and Twins are engaged in “serious†discussions about a potential trade that would bring 2-time CY Young award winner Johan Santana to Queens.”
Man. What are the odds of trading for another guy named Johan Santana? From the same team!! Seems like dei ja vu or something. Speaking of Venezuelan lefties. Isnt….Forget it.
mel, in this case the barrel seems to have an endless supply of fish.
When is the last day to send players through waivers?
Randy,
Anyone is allowed to change their mind. Im pretty sure though that the people running the Yankee organization have a pretty good idea about what they’re doind considering the Yankees playoff run. Teams like KC and pittsburgh would love it if their front office would be as incompetent as the Yankees has been these pst 13 years..
Pete,
No live blogging from the Democratic Convention tonight??
Isn’t there a Sept. 1st deadline for post season eligibility?
Why are we talking about fishing? Its boring and not even a sport. Their is bigger fish to fry. Next someone is going to tell me Poker is a sport.
real lousy chowda,
I can’t find anything to disagree with in Shaunessy’s assessment.
ray,
yeah that tampa faction was pretty sharp.
Em, Sully McShaunessey really be going out on a limb on thar.
SOS and Mel-
Think you can send them thru waivers after 9/1 but as Mel said not eligible for post season, ?unless on DH??
Abrey Huff cleared- owed 10M in 2009, then FA. Anyone interested in him for 1st or is his fielding too lousy?
SoS, there is no time deadline on requesting waivers on a player. It just has to be done by 1 September to be put on the post season roster. In an emergency, a request can be made to place a player on the eligibility list to replace an injured player.
hey SOS, it looks like someone is copying our ideas:
For whether or not a player is out, bio-kinetic sensors and microchips in the balls, gloves and bases could easily tell if contact with a player was made before contact with a bag was made no longer making the ghost base tag force out allowable. The game would finally be played the way it was supposed to be played without umpire’s personal preferences getting in the way.
http://www.deuceofdavenport.com/2008/08/5-other-ways-baseball-can-modernize.html
Randy,
The Tamper faction was brilliant. I especially loved how George listened to them and bid against himself with Giambi instead of keeping Tino. I also loved how Cashman wasnt allowed to sign Vlad and instead was forced to take on sheffield. Those Tamper guys were indeed brilliant!
Thanks Yankee Trader.
Id take him. Iv said it manny times in here. Cant convince myself on signing another 7 year contract for first base. Especially on Tex. Maybe getting a Huff for a year will open the way to Montero in 2010 if he lights it up in 09.
I would also take a chance on Crede if available next year.
Yankee Trader,
There is something about replacing a player who goes on the DL.
I can’t read or look at O’Shaugnessy. He’s probably a good guy, but he creeps me out. And he loves to toot Boston’s horn. Did the New York papers do that? Hey! Look at us! We’re winning all these world series! Did they kick Boston when they were down? Well, probably, but you know what I mean. He’s insufferable.
Don’t knock Giambi. He had to take a lot more to be a Yankee so that he wouldn’t hurt the A’s fans’ feelings.
This season is a perfect example of why baseball is the best game ever. No one could have predicted the team with the worst bullpen in all of baseball in ‘07 would be the envy of every team in ‘08. A year ago Cano, Verlander BJ Upton and Jimmy Rollins were considered among the top young players in the game and each has been a disappointment in ‘08.
Not one “expert” predicted Carlos Quentin would be a top MVP candidate this year. The beauty of it is, Quentin could be a disappointment in ‘09 just like Rollins is this year. ‘08 Cy Young probable Cliff Lee? Ditto.
There’s just no predicting this game. So keep that in mind when reading all the detailed anaylsis of prospects and teams prognosis this winter. Odds are, most of what you read will turn out to be incorrect when the next season plays out.
saucy,
Im not going to ask how you run into that stuff. But that is hog wash!! I thought i told you to get us the copy rights to that? Damn saucy. I can see this blowing up and that guy getting rich and we’ll still be here posting rather than working. Like the cheerleader idea.
i’d take huff in heartbeat then sign 2 pitchers in offseason no way they trade him to us anyway
“Those Tamper guys were indeed brilliant!”
see that ray, you are coming around.
all kidding aside , part of the tampa faction were coaches like clete boyer and tony cloninger who really knew baseball and wouldn’t kiss up to anyone including george.
those kind of people seem to be missing from the new organization.
i’d really try and get a pitcher now and if pavano is a bust bring up wright.rasner can’t start again is a guy who might have a 4.30 era in nl if lucky
“He had to take a lot more to be a Yankee so that he wouldn’t hurt the A’s fans’ feelings.”
i thought he had to take a lot more from the yankees so he’d be really rich.
Even though many pitchers in the farm system have been injured this year, there are still a lot of positives. Heredia, Bettances, McAllister, Pope have all shown good progress in A ball and should be promoted next year. Garcia, Melancon, Sanchez, Cox have all come back from serious injuries with varying degrees of success. Some no-names like Jones, Coke, Kontos are now on the radar. Wright bounced back from a poor major league debut and now he’s the best pitcher on the AAA team. Fringe guys like Veras and Ramirez have become fixtures in the MLB bullpen. Robertson and Melancon tore through the system.
I think a lot of guys at the lower levels took big steps forward. Obviously Hughes and Kennedy have failed utterly and Joba’s development has been stunted. Its a step back for sure but not the end of the line for any of them. I’m very optimistic that Joba and Hughes will be excellent pitchers. I’m not as confident in Kennedy but I do believe he’ll be a solid 4th or 5th starter in the near future.
Bottom line, the Yankees still have extremely good pitching depth in the minors.
Huff is a very good hitter and would fit well in the Stadium, but $ 10 M seems awfully high. Still if you don’t bring back Giambi or Abreau he replaces some LH power at a lower cost.
He’s actually a decent defensive player and can play 1B, 3B, LF, RF though he’s played no OF since ‘06. He hits LHP reasonably well (career ops .756 vs .855 vs RHP) and he turns 32 in December which makes him six years younger than Giambi and three years younger than Abreu.
People are like “he’s young, you need to be cautious, he’s your top starter for the next 10 years”, ok, I get it. But the Yankees WERE cautious. A lot of older starters probably would have been out there for their next start, or the start after that. So cautious is missing a few starts. It becomes babying when you shut him down for a month. It stops his development, and again, they are going to make him SCARED to reveal any pain he ever has. Now he knows that ANY time he tells them he has a pain or something, there goes a month of his season. That’s smart work by the Yankees?
The Joba rules were cute and all, and maybe good for the time, but a lot of people considered that babying him also. There has to be a point where you stop babying. He’s a person too. If he’s dying to come back in August, and the doctor said he can, the Yankees saying he can’t becomes babying. It could hurt his relationship with the organization which is the last thing they want to do.
“i’d really try and get a pitcher now and if pavano is a bust bring up wright.rasner can’t start again is a guy who might have a 4.30 era in nl if lucky”
Orrrr. He could go into the 8th inning with a no hitter. Sound familiar?
“i thought he had to take a lot more from the yankees so he’d be really rich.”
Randy. Havnt you ever watched free agents before? Its never about the money. Thats the first sentence they say in their press conference. I havnt given me any reason not to believe them.
One warning about Aubrey Huff is that he doesnt play well with others and has a huge ego. When Tampa Bay wanted to clean out the negativivty in the clubhouse, Huff was one of the first to go. He’ll want to be a full time player and might not respond well if he’s not playing.
Thoughts on upcoming free agent starters?
CC-to west coast NL[ wants to stay in NL to hit] team for less money or if you’re Yankees do you give him 7 years at 22-25M/year?
If CC goes elsewhere, any interest in another young lefty Oliver Perez or will 5 years 12M per be too much for his talents?
Dempster-wants to stay with Cubs, but they might not need him with Harden on board- Any Interest?
Burnett- didn’t pitch well yesterday-homer to Pedroia-would want 13-15M/year-injury prone-any interest?
Sheets- would he come to Yanks for 3 years@ 16M/year-worried about injuries?
Looper-good year with St Louis-any interest?- Or as NL starter do his numbers automatically inflate in AL.
What interest in bringing back Pettitte or Mussina ages 37 and 40 next year? at what salary?
IMO, although I don’t think Byrd is a good pitcher, he is 5-1 in his last 6 starts, averaging 7 innings/game without more than 4 runs in any one game-pitched a 9 inning game against Toronto and beat Angels. We should have picked him up since he’s a FA. Now were stuck with 3 starters who can go no more than 3-5 innings, and our bullpen has shown the effects[ our one real strength a month ago]
DFox, lets put it this way. Jorge Posada had shoulder tendinitis in spring training and he tried to play through it. He ended up with a torn labrum.
Sometimes a player plays through an injury but his mechanics are altered because of the pain. That alteration can cause further injury like with Posada.
A shoulder injury can ruin a pitcher’s career. I’d rather be safe than sorry.
Yankee Trader,
I’d give CC a blank check, thats how much the Yankees need him in my opinion.
I don’t want any part of Perez, Looper or Dempster.
If the Yanks don’t get CC I’d prefer Sheets over Burnett. I’d give Sheets 3 years @ 16 mil but he will probably want more. I’d give Burnett a similar deal but he’ll probably want more too.
Patrick good point. Id rather them baby him than have a Wood or Prior on our hands. Have Joba Pavanoed for good.
“DFox, lets put it this way. Jorge Posada had shoulder tendinitis in spring training and he tried to play through it. He ended up with a torn labrum.”
There’s different severities. Joe Girardi says almost every player has some tendinitis in their shoulder, and some normal people do also.
I’m sure Posada’s was much worse. And Posada didn’t have anything near full strength like Joba did. Joba’s is CLEARLY the mildest case possible otherwise I doubt the Yankees would have him throwing a week later. That would be stupid. So just by the fact that he was throwing a week later, I’m going to assume what they saw was very, very mild.
“A shoulder injury can ruin a pitcher’s career. I’d rather be safe than sorry.”
But where is the line? That’s what I can’t understand. You have to draw a line somewhere. Shut him down for a few months everytime he feels something? All pitchers feel things.
Sometimes I wonder if the babying comes from the failure of Hughes and Kennedy. So now Joba is like their lone little pet.
But trust me, if they keep misleading and misleading Joba like they already have, there’s going to be problems. This guy is a gamer, not a guy who wants to sit on the bench and watch his teammates play while the Yankees give nice little reports on him that he threw 35 pitches.
“We’re just going there to win a series,” said Red Sox first baseman Kevin Youkilis. “If we win two out of three, it’s only a one game jump [in the standings]. That’s the way we look at it. We’re not trying to bury somebody or anything like that*. We’re just trying to win every series from here on out. If we can win every series from here on out, we’d put ourselves in a good position to get to the playoffs. It doesn’t matter if it’s the Yankees or the Rays or White Sox or whoever. We’re just trying to win a series and that’s our whole goal.”
*Them’s fighting words.
Thoughts on a Lowe for a 4th or 5th starter. Assuming we get one of the big 3 in C.C.,Burnett or Sheets.
Incentive laden deal on a Penny?
DFox,
Can you see Joba not telling them he’s hurt in the future? Knowing he will be shelved for awhile if he says so?
If there ever was a time to baby Joba, it’s now. What’s so hard to understand?
DFox, how has Joba been misled? And how is being able to throw short, controlled bullpen sessions the same thing as being able to throw 100 pitches under game conditions after only missing one start?
“Can you see Joba not telling them he’s hurt in the future? Knowing he will be shelved for awhile if he says so?”
Well I mean, why would he tell them? He wasn’t going to tell them about this pain, so I HIGHLY doubt he would after this little act. That’s the whole problem. This little nothing injury can lead to a serious injury because of him hiding pain in the future. I’m surprised the Yankees don’t see this. What would have happened if Girardi didn’t notice something? He probably would have just kept on pitching… So even before this act he was reluctant to tell them.
Humberto Sanchez is best as a reliever. Next year Brackman is coming back off of TJ and apparently he is not your typical big pitcher he actually has control and good stuff not just velocity. Look forward to those guys making noise in the minors next season.
Just because Joba is babysitting Mini Mo in the dugout doesn’t mean that he himself is being babied.
“I’m sure Posada’s was much worse. And Posada didn’t have anything near full strength like Joba did. Joba’s is CLEARLY the mildest case possible otherwise I doubt the Yankees would have him throwing a week later. That would be stupid. So just by the fact that he was throwing a week later, I’m going to assume what they saw was very, very mild.”
You are making VAST assumptions here. They had Posada on a throwing program after his shoulder injury was reported. I’m sure they thought he had a mild injury as well. What I’m trying to say is that a mild injury right now could cause a more serious one down the line.
Also, every injury the Yankees have had this year has been a lot more serious then the Yankees coaches/management have initially reported. Jeter broke his hand, he played through it and had a terrible year. A-rod pulled a hamstring, tried to return too soon and pulled it even worse. Posada had shoulder tendinitis, tried to keep throwing and ended up with a torn labrum. Hughes originally had a “strained oblique” and turns out he has cracked ribs. Bruney had a “sprained ankle” which was actually a lis franc injury. Wang also had a “sprained ankle” which was also a lis franc injury.
All season the Yankees have reported injuries as being less severe than they actually are. Don’t you think thats likely with Joba?
Even if he really does have only mild tendinitis, why try and push him? Jeter, A-rod and Posada all tried to play through minor injuries and all ended poorly. Joba is a huge part of this franchise’s future, why risk a serious injury?
“DFox, how has Joba been misled?”
First with the day he would begin throwing that week, he said Monday, the Yankees changed it to Friday. Then he said he would be back by the end of August pitching in a game. They aren’t going to let him.
He’s not a baby. That’s the bottom line. He’s years older than myself. He has a son. The Yankees make it seem like this guy isn’t allowed to do ANYTHING a normal player would be allowed to. I’m sure it takes a toll on him.
“If there ever was a time to baby Joba, it’s now. What’s so hard to understand?”
Why is that? Everyone talks about Santana and how he’s OLD and declining. He’s 29. How long are you going to baby Joba for? He’s already almost 23. When does it stop? He can’t even start a complete season yet. So when is he going to have a complete season under his belt? Who knows. But 22, almost 23 is in no way shape or form someone who should be completely babied to the point where one side is giving a completely different month of when they’ll be pitching in a game.
Nick,
Does it not freak you out how much Joba looks like Babe Ruth. I mean the picture they’re running at yankees.com. And you look at pictures of Joba with his cap pushed up and he’s wiping his face with his beefy hands. Uncanny.
Thank you for the clarification. I was not aware that Dr. Joba was in charge of his own rehab.
So if he says something and the Yankees decide otherwise, that means he’s been misled? Interesting.
S.o.S.27
Penny could be a FA if Dodgers don’t pick up his 8.75M club option-has shoulder tendinitis and therefore has had a bad season, although stellar in 2007 and only 30 years old. If MRI is clean, would definitely be interested.
Lowe older. If we couldn’t get Sheets or Sabathia and didn’t resign Pettitte or Musssina, then yes I’d be interested for back end of rotation.
If Joba comes back this year it will be in bullpen, since he is not allowed to throw any breaking pitches yet.
Wonder if Hughes would be better suited to bullpen next year?
mel, when I first read your post I thought it said that Joba was wiping his face with beef jerky. Now THAT would be Ruthian.
“Joba is a huge part of this franchise’s future, why risk a serious injury?”
Of course he is, but how long do the Yankees get to control every aspect of what Joba does? Joba says he wants to be back in Auguest. Joba says he feels fine. When does Joba assume the risk? He has to eventually… Do you believe if Jeter got hurt and said he would be back in August, and the Yankees said something else, he wouldn’t be back in August? Of course he would.
And again, I repeat, Posada had no strength in the arm. Joba was throwing 99mph fastballs. That’s a pretty big difference in injuries, one FULL strength, one NO strength.
“Also, every injury the Yankees have had this year has been a lot more serious then the Yankees coaches/management have initially reported. Jeter broke his hand, he played through it and had a terrible year. A-rod pulled a hamstring, tried to return too soon and pulled it even worse. Posada had shoulder tendinitis, tried to keep throwing and ended up with a torn labrum. Hughes originally had a “strained oblique†and turns out he has cracked ribs. Bruney had a “sprained ankle†which was actually a lis franc injury. Wang also had a “sprained ankle†which was also a lis franc injury.”
Time to fire Yankees primary doctor and hire the second oppinion doctor. Oh and fire Meachum. He always has something to do with it.
“So when is he going to have a complete season under his belt?”
Unfortunately its looking like 2011 will be his first full season. None of us like it but its just the way it is. Pitching is an unnatural motion, you can’t expect someone to throw 200 innings right out of college.
“Wonder if Hughes would be better suited to bullpen next year?”
Ughh. Phil has been a starter his whole career sticking him in the pen would make 0 sense. He is a starter, his stuff isn’t dominant enough for the pen.
“So if he says something and the Yankees decide otherwise, that means he’s been misled? Interesting.”
Yes, let’s read into it a little instead of just taking what they tell us. Joba said he would pitch in a game in August. You think August just popped into his head and he said it? Obviously that was indicated by a doctor or SOMEONE on the team. Joba isn’t stupid. He might be young, but he’s still an adult and I would assume he thinks rationally.
So can’t we agree that he got August from somewhere and not just out of his you know what?
Mel-
If Joba is Ruth reincarnated,that’ll mean he’ll win 90 games as a starter, then become home run champ!!
“Unfortunately its looking like 2011 will be his first full season. None of us like it but its just the way it is. Pitching is an unnatural motion, you can’t expect someone to throw 200 innings right out of college.”
I wonder what old-school guys like Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan and Jim Palmer think when they hear things like this.
“how long do the Yankees get to control every aspect of what Joba does?”
If you mean every aspect of what he does as a pitcher, just until he’s no longer under contract with the team.
And Joba would certainly have a bigger say in the matter if they were pushing him to come back and he didn’t think he was ready (see: Pavano, Carl).
“Does it not freak you out how much Joba looks like Babe Ruth. I mean the picture they’re running at yankees.com. And you look at pictures of Joba with his cap pushed up and he’s wiping his face with his beefy hands. Uncanny.”
Well Ruth did start at pitcher. Maybe we can put him at dh and see what hes got. Cant hurt.
Al from BK
If Hughes innings limited next year, wouldn’t it be better to start in bullpen, and assuming he finally stays healthy, finish up in the rotation, so he can pith in September and hopefully in October?
“Of course he is, but how long do the Yankees get to control every aspect of what Joba does?”
As long as he’s under contract. You mention Jeter, don’t you remember all the times where he gets a minor injury and says “I expect to be in the lineup tomorrow” but Torre or Girardi sits him a bit longer to be safe? The team makes these decisions, not the players.
“And again, I repeat, Posada had no strength in the arm. Joba was throwing 99mph fastballs. That’s a pretty big difference in injuries, one FULL strength, one NO strength.”
You are misunderstanding me. Posada hurt his shoulder in spring training and it was called mild tendinitis. He kept throwing and he had fine arm strength. He re-injured the arm in April and thats when he lost arm strength. Unless you are a doctor that has seen the MRIs of Posada and Joba’s arms theres no way you can quantify which initial injury was more severe.
“If you mean every aspect of what he does as a pitcher, just until he’s no longer under contract with the team.”
Yeah and sadly, if this situation escalates to where let’s say he doesn’t come back this season, and he feels he was lied to, no matter how you want to twist it, him not being under contract by the Yankees will be sooner than later.
BTW. Whos little mo?
Nick,
No kidding. I sprayed iced tea all over my computer when Joba pulled out that turkey leg from under his cap during a pitching change.
We should have Hughes and Joba share a starting rotation spot next year. One starts the year, while the other is in the bullpen and then in the second half of the year. They flip flop. The innings limit for both is going to be like re doing th 08 season. Sucks.
“I wonder what old-school guys like Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan and Jim Palmer think when they hear things like this.”
Well, I wonder what the counltess pitchers who blew out their arms say? We will never know because back before there were innings limits there wasn’t as much media coverage.
Sorry guys but I don’t want Joba or any of our young pitches to be the next Mark Prior. Its been proven that steady increases in innings is the best and safest way to develop a pitcher.
Hopefully Brackman-De La Rosa-Betances-McAllister turns out better than Generation Trey.
DFox, I don’t see how you’re getting some vague estimate of perhaps being able to come back by the end of August to somehow be a solemn oath that the team made to Joba.
Since you don’t have any actual evidence about the things you’re saying, how does the team being (perhaps overly) cautious with its potential franchise pitcher become this crypto-conspiracy to lie to Joba and cheat him and the team out of an early return?
You’re making some wild assumptions because Joba said the word “August” but you don’t know what you’re talking about.
DFox says he’s ‘years younger’ than twentytwo.
It is natural for him to think that the grownups are stifling Joba, and that Joba should get to make medical decisions on his own.
Give the kid time.
DFox,
The only thing that will pull Joba away from the Yankees is more money. You don’t think he LOVES being a Yankee? You don’t think he’s happy that they prize him enough to create rules for him and retard (verb not adjective here) his rehab?
This will not be an issue when he’s due to become a free agent.
The Yankees are the mean parents who are making the difficult decisions for Joba because it’s their responsiblity to look out for his welfare.
“We should have Hughes and Joba share a starting rotation spot next year. One starts the year, while the other is in the bullpen and then in the second half of the year. They flip flop. The innings limit for both is going to be like re doing th 08 season. Sucks.”
Heres what I think will happen. Joba starts in the rotation, Hughes starts in the AAA rotation. Phil clearly needs more time in AAA to improve. At around halfway through the season put Joba into the bullpen and call Phil up to take his spot. This way Joba doesn’t have to transition to starting in the middle of the season. While he’s in AAA Phil can limit his innings without worrying about the result.
“Does it not freak you out how much Joba looks like Babe Ruth. I mean the picture they’re running at yankees.com. And you look at pictures of Joba with his cap pushed up and he’s wiping his face with his beefy hands. Uncanny.â€
It really is amazing. They look just like one another (the young Ruth, not the older Ruth).
Is Wang going to hate the Yankees for lying to him because there was once a notion that he could come back in September?
SoS,
Hey! That sounds familiar!
You can’t cage an animal anymore. Joba won’t go to the pen. Unless it’s penciled into their 18 month day planner.
“It is natural for him to think that the grownups are stifling Joba, and that Joba should get to make medical decisions on his own.
Give the kid time.”
lol. Some here want to put him on blog restriction.
I hate the Yankees because their website said the game was going to start at 1:05 but it actually began at 1:09!
AL from BK-
Forget about Gibson and Palmer. 45 years ago Juan Marichal[
and Warren Spahn were in a scorless tie after 9 innings. Alvin Dark, Marichal’s manager wanted to take him out, but Marichal kept begging to stay in. Then in the 14th he said to him, “NO more for you.” Marichal said,”Do you see that man on the mound? That man is 42 and I’m only 25. I’m not ready for you to take me out.” Both pitched into the 16th and with one out bottom of the inning Mays hit a homer off Spahn for a 1-0 Giants victory.
Looks like they’re going to the top of the 12th inning in Baltimore.
“Hey! That sounds familiar!”
Wait till the offseason. Alot will of whats been said will come full circle.
Santana should be a yank
Clemens comming out of retirement
Randolph at third
Hughes for Oswalt
Kennedy for anyone
Cameron in center
Best 80’s movies
Women rule closets
Parachute pants making a comeback
Garbage Pail Kids
Whos better Pacino or Deniro
80’s lunch pails vs. 2000 brown bags
You get the picture. Cant wait!!!
BTW-Spahn also went 23-7 at age 42 in 1963. Both pitched more that 200 pitches that 16 inning game!!! Now we pay the Pavano’s, what 8M/win in four years.
One thing that rarely gets mentioned in ocnversations about brittle pitching of today compared to the good old days is that in those good old days the mound was higher, ballparks were larger and had far more foul territory.
Why does that matter? Because pitchers in the 60’s and before threw many more fast balls and far fewer sliders, splitters, curves and cutters all of which are more demanding on the arm.
Greg Madduxis a throw back because he’s a fatball changeup guy who rarely throws breaking stuff. He runs it, tails it, sinks it.. and changes speeds brilliantly. You want your young arms healthy? Teach ‘em all to be fastball/changeup guys 90% of the time.
“AL from BK-
Forget about Gibson and Palmer. 45 years ago Juan Marichal[
and Warren Spahn were in a scorless tie after 9 innings. Alvin Dark, Marichal’s manager wanted to take him out, but Marichal kept begging to stay in. Then in the 14th he said to him, “NO more for you.†Marichal said,â€Do you see that man on the mound? That man is 42 and I’m only 25. I’m not ready for you to take me out.†Both pitched into the 16th and with one out bottom of the inning Mays hit a homer off Spahn for a 1-0 Giants victory.”
Baseball before it became a game filled with alleged “gurus” and “experts”. Sure you do not want young guys hurting their arms, however forcing a pitcher to wear pampers until his 30th birhday is a bit excessive. By the time these pitchers will be able to go 200 innings they’ll be pitching for other teams.
S.oS.27
Santana coulda been a Yank
Clemens coming out of internment
Randolph on 3rd, Who’s on 1st? and I don’t mean Pena!
Hughes for Oswalt-more likely Hughes will work for food!
Kennedy for no-one
Cameron in Center-for the Brewers.
DeNiro>Pacino
Also can’t wait!!
Thanks, mel, I forgot about that game, I’m watching now. Go O’s!
ooooh, O’s are the away team at home. That’s funny.
Yankee Trader,
Ill take that as your R.S.V.P.
Whats at second?
Deniro is better.
“ooooh, O’s are the away team at home. That’s funny.”
Isnt that normal? When we play in Baltimore arent we the home team?
Randy I LOVE the idea of bringing Peterson on board. I for one enjoy the way he views pitching as a science.
Rasner, Ponson, and an assortment of spot starters (e.g., Giese, Igawa) have started about 35 of the Yanks’ 130 games so far this season. That’s more than a quarter of the games!
Karstens vs. Ted Lilly tonight
Igawa was in the Bronx this season?
“Unfortunately its looking like 2011 will be his first full season. None of us like it but its just the way it is. Pitching is an unnatural motion, you can’t expect someone to throw 200 innings right out of college.â€
Wow that’s nuts. Mike Mussina threw 210 innings his first full year out of college. Tom Glavine threw 185 innings his full year out of high school. Mussina’s been on the DL for less time than Phil Hughes in his career, and Glavine was never on until this year at age 42. The Yankees are being completely over the top with the babying, they won’t have 200 inning starters for ages, and it doesn’t even prevent injuries.
Ray,
Its not hindsight at all. Its examining the results of this season and seeing problems, some significant (IMO) with the execution of the plan.
As I’ve stated repeatedly, I like and respect Brian Cashman. I also agree with his plan to develop from within. Overall, its the right way to go.
The execution of the plan? That’s where the problems lie.
I believe the talent drain of minor league instructors in the last several years has caught to the organization. That has hurt the execution of his plan.
They lost Gil Patterson and haven’t replaced him with anyone near as competent. That was a BIG loss.
Guys like Tony Cloninger, Neil Allen, and several other good instructors have also flown the coup in the past few years. Ironically, many of them went to the Rays. Surprisingly (or is it?) the Rays are considered by many in baseball to have the best minor league system (players and instructors) in baseball.
Many of those guys used to work for the Yankees.
Call me crazy but, I see that as a problem.
When all of these young arms turn up lame, that’s a problem. Its not a “fluke” or “bad luck”. Its a problem and it needs addressing.
Is it all Brian Cashman’s fault? No. However, I believe some of the people who “have his ear” in the organization (in terms of the minor league system) are incompetent. I think the Yankees can do a helluva lot better in terms of putting together a minor league organization of competent instructors and aides than they currently have right now.
As the person who heads all of baseball ops, that’s on Cash to make it better. Yes, some of it has to do with budget. Not all of it though.
Like any job, who you surround yourself with ultimately determines your fate. That’s especially true in sports and I think Cash has to surround himself with better people on the baseball ops side of the organization.
Raffy Chaves was an excellent addition to the organization. His work should be commended. They need more Raffy Chaves’ in the organization if they really want to develop young pitchers.
Part of developing them is keeping them healthy. Part of keeping them healthy is having quality instructors at every level of the organization working with these kids every day.
Nardi Contreras? I don’t know if he is just a great self-promotor, or is just understaffed. I am hoping its the latter.
However, the more I observe, the former starts creeping into my mind.
I do know that no organization in baseball has suffered the amount of pitching injuries in its minor league system as the Yankees this year. That ain’t good.
Like I said, I like Cashman and agree with the need to develop from within.
That said, you can’t pay Peter to give to Paul. If you are going to develop from within, you can’t skimp on coaching salaries (which allows other teams to purge your staff) and you can’t mess up the draft.
You also can’t get into petty turf battles for power. A lifelong issue with the Yankees under the Steinbrenners.
Its why, the more and more I observe what’s happening this year, the more I believe the Yankees are going to have to add more help if they bring back Cash next year. He can’t do it alone and he can’t do it with the staff that’s currently in place, IMO. Too many mistakes have been made in key areas to engender confidence that enough guys in the organization truly “get it” when it comes to developing players.
yes… started a game in detroit in place of hughes who was DL’d in his previous start.
3 IP, 11 H, 6 ER
mel (Let’s go Yankees! clap, clap, blah, blah, blah)
August 25th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Igawa was in the Bronx this season?
Well he pitched @Detroit and @NYM i guess that sort of counts. 13 ERA is pretty bad though.
“Igawa was in the Bronx this season?”
Yes. He bought a one day pass.
Rob NY,
Thanks. Blanking out bad things is a wonderful defense mechanism.
Double play with the bases loaded. Boo Birds up 4-3.
Rocky Cherry sounds like a dancer’s name. What’s the rule for coming up with your stripper name?
Al from BK(Practice doesn’t make perfect, Calvin Pace makes perfect.)
August 25th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
“Unfortunately its looking like 2011 will be his first full season. None of us like it but its just the way it is. Pitching is an unnatural motion, you can’t expect someone to throw 200 innings right out of college.â€
I wonder what old-school guys like Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan and Jim Palmer think when they hear things like this.
___________________________________________
Considering how Palmer, Bunker, Steve Barber, Tom Phoebus, and Jim Hardin were handled in the early part of their careers, I’d think he would say to protect the kids. Palmer lost almost 2 years because of mistreatment and the others all had arm problems that killed their careers. Tom Phoebus, in his first two major league games pitched complete game shutouts and was pretty much finished within a couple of years. He never was as good after that. Karl Spooner was pretty much finished after doing that in 1954 with the Dodgers. Two complete game shutouts in his first two games and 27 strikeouts. He was finshed half way through the next year with arm trouble.
“What’s the rule for coming up with your stripper name?”
I believe it has to be named after a fruit/city/cologne.
I don’t know about paying Peter to give it to Paul, but can either of them take Rasner’s spot in the rotation on Saturday?
Pet and street name?
Doesn’t sound right to be called Spot, though.
Griffey Jr. up 1st & 2nd, 2 outs.
Nick,
Paul is pitching in Boston. We passed on him. We still have Peter though.
So if Griffey hits a walkoff HR in Baltimore, will they celebrate at homeplate even though the crowd will be booing?
Wild pitch took the IBB decision out of their hands. Dye pinch hit now.
At the moment, it looks like this pitching career may not work out for him. I hope Phil’s working on his plan B. But we shouldn’t worry, he still got that legendary “poise” afterall. right? lol.
Never mind. Game over. Picked up 1/2 game in an hour’s time. Not bad.
I knew all along that there was something wrong with joba’s arm. there had to be a reason 4 the joba rules. Why didn’t the giants do some Lincecum rules?? This was the first time that I have heard of a young pitcher having so many rules to pitch in the major leagues…..
Thank you Baltimore!
Well Ian is pitching tonight in Scranton has already thrown 24 pitches 12/12. Two outs.
“This will not be an issue when he’s due to become a free agent.”
Hah, I like how you say that like you know for sure. Sometimes people remember things and can’t let go. Ken Griffey Jr. would never play for the Yankees, because Billy Martin wouldn’t let him run around in the club house as a kid. That’s much more trivial than what the Yankees are doing to Joba. So to say he’ll definitely sign with them is absurd. You better hope he isn’t silently ticked off with what’s going on, because he won’t say now, he’ll say when it’s time to offer him a contract and he looks at other teams.
“You’re making some wild assumptions because Joba said the word “August†but you don’t know what you’re talking about.”
Nick, come on, you usually come off as an educated person, but not today. Joba clearly stated that “he would be pitching in a game before the end of the month”. That’s mentioning the word August? Don’t think so. That’s mentioning a specific timeline. Don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about. If you think Joba is a liar or he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, then fine, say it. But don’t pretend he didn’t say what he did. That’s silly.
Can someone explain how the game in Baltimore is a 3-3 final?
mlb.com is really messed up
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2008_04_28_balmlb_chamlb_1&mode=gameday
When you click gameday this game shows up.
Nick,
Very true! lol
You know you are the weak link in a rotation when Carl Pavano engenders more confidence.
Its why the Joba injury really hurts. You have to have at least 3 guys you can run out there and be confident at what you are going to get.
Right now, the Yankees only have two who fit that description.
Its why I hope this offense has five weeks of explosive baseball in them. If not, I don’t think the starting pitching is there to get this done.
“The Yankees are being completely over the top with the babying, they won’t have 200 inning starters for ages, and it doesn’t even prevent injuries.”
Exactly, and very few people here see it. They think of Joba more as a robot than an actual person. He might be the model citizen and everything, but come on, he’s a human being with goals. Doesn’t anyone here think he might have wanted to at least have a shot at rookie of the year? The posters here don’t think about it like the actual player might. When it’s time to sign that long contract, people think Joba will suddenly forget how the Yankees never gave him a dime extra than minimum salary for what he did for them when he was called up, they pretty much killed all the chance he had for winning rookie of the year, and they are probably cutting a year or so off his career because he still won’t be able to pitch a full season next season.
But no, when Joba robot sits down to sign a contract, there’s no way he’ll remember any of that and he’ll just do what the LoHud blog posters say to do, sign with the Yankees.
yes phil’s friend i agree-
he has “poise” and a “good september” and “pitched 3 good innings in the playoffs where veterans would have faltered”.
obviously he is a hall of famer. doesn’t matter that he has been injured for a bulk of the season 2 years in a row, and is getting rocked by awful teams in the minors, and has lost all his movement on his fastball and has no changeup, he will be fine!
who needs overweight sabathia or injury prone sheets!! hughes in 09 for staff ace!!
DFox,
If Joba’s going to let overprotectiveness in a rehab of a shoulder injury affect his judgement at FA, let him go. Let him be a diva somewhere else when he’s finished his service here.
That’s preferable to a setback making matters worse and Joba becomes worthless to us in the short to mid-term future because he talked them into being more aggressive with the rehab.
“If Joba’s going to let overprotectiveness in a rehab of a shoulder injury affect his judgement at FA, let him go. Let him be a diva somewhere else when he’s finished his service here.”
That’s fair enough… If people are prepared to lose him, then so be it. It’s not overprotecting, it’s babying. He can be 100% healthy and blow his shoulder out one day. If he says he feels fine, doctor says everything looks fine, then he should be good to go, not “go into 35 pitch a week mode”. Being upset about that and being taken out of rookie of the year consideration isn’t being a diva, it’s being someone who remembers when they are wronged.
“That said, you can’t pay Peter to give to Paul. If you are going to develop from within, you can’t skimp on coaching salaries (which allows other teams to purge your staff) and you can’t mess up the draft.”
Good post, SJ44.
Talk about insanity, why in the world would they skimp on coaches salaries?!?! Talk about being penny-wise and dollar foolish.
“Hah, I like how you say that like you know for sure.”
DFox, meet DFox.
I don’t know what any of this has to do with my education. I just think your assertion that the Yankees have lied to Joba is unfounded.
There are people — serious, educated people with baseball smarts — who think Joba should be shut down for the rest of the season, just to be safe.
There’s no conspiracy to break Joba’s heart and kill his dreams. They’re just being cautious with their best asset.
Deep breaths.
For the record, I have a $50 with a buddy of mine that Joba will finish the season with under a 4.25 ERA. We made the bet during the off-season. He thought Joba was overrated. I thought otherwise. About 2 months ago, he paid off the bet when it became obvious that Joba is the real deal. But there’s a 100 innings minimum for our bet. I really want Joba to come back and pitch at least 11 more innings or I have to return the $50. And I STILL would rather the Yanks be cautious with him.
DFox,
No one is being wronged here. No harm is being done. Joba’s survived the Joba rules. He’s survived midges. I think he can survive a slug-like rehab.
Furthermore, the Yankees don’t owe him anything. He was fast-tracked. He was put in a position to succeed like no other.
What you’re proposing, give him whatever he wants? That’s spoiling him. Give him what he wants so he doesn’t run away at the first opportunity. Bullcrap. That’s not how it works. The Yankees made Joba what he is and Harlan won’t let him forget that.
Clay Loves Laptops,
Has that 5-tool horse been signed yet? He looked great rounding the bases. Hopefully we don’t miss out on him AND Inoa in the same year.
miranda was taken out of tonights game in the 1st inning before he batted…chad jennings says its either an injury he doesnt know of or a possible trade… =o
Well Clay, we are talking about an organization that under George, once attempted to take medical and dental benefits away from its office workers because they became “too expensive”. This, after winning a World Series.
It was only until the Daily News shamed George that he relented.
They aren’t babying Joba. They are trying to protect him. What he says, or any player for that matter on medical issues, is irrelevent.
I don’t know of a player (not named Pavano) who doesn’t say he is “ok” and looks to play. Damaso Marte took the ball when he was hurt and it made things worse for him.
That’s the way players are conditioned. They are conditioned to take the ball. Sometimes, to their own detriment.
Its up to the team to protect the player from himself.
Every team in the game has reams of data re: young pitching and injuries. Where to you think the 30 inning per year ramp up for these guys came from?
It came up from the research that was done over the past 10 years re: pitching, and in particular, with pitchers under 26 years old.
Its a different era than the Gibson Era. They have millions of dollars tied up in these players. They are not going to overextend them so early in their careers.
The reason why Joba Chamberlain dropped in the draft was because his medicals were shaky. In particular, his shoulder and elbow exams. Some teams took him off their draft boards because of his medicals.
Do you really think, especially with what has happened this year, the Yankees are going to risk him? Do you really think they are going to just run him out there and throw caution to the wind?
If they did that, and he ended up getting hurt, forget about getting fired from the Yankees, Cashman and his pitching people would be unemployable in baseball the rest of their careers.
Its better they miss the playoffs and err on the side of caution with Joba than run him out there because he says he “feels good”.
DFox, you are wise beyond your years. Keep fighting the good fight. Everyday that goes by where Joba is throwing 35 pitches is a wasted day for this year and next. He could easily have been ready to be back in the rotation by this Sat the 30th, now the earliest could be maybe 9/7, but at the pace he is going now, it will be more like 9/20. Unnecessarily hurting the 2008 Yankees chances.
With the state of all things, I’m not in the mood to follow baseball anymore, Pete.
Which is bleaker, the economy or the Yankees’ playoff chances?
“I don’t know what any of this has to do with my education. I just think your assertion that the Yankees have lied to Joba is unfounded.”
You’re still completely ignoring what Joba said… You’re not telling me where Joba got the “I’ll be pitching in a game by the end of this month”. Once again, you either have to say Joba doesn’t think straight or the Yankees lied to him. It’s one or the other, no way around it. I’m going to have to side with Joba in that I believe someone told him that. You can side with the Yankees, but then you’re saying Joba is irrational.
“And I STILL would rather the Yanks be cautious with him.”
And they were. They didn’t let him make his next start, or the one after that. That was cautious, now, they’re in baby mode. You’ll be able to thank the Yankees for losing that $50. They should have to pay it to you.
“What you’re proposing, give him whatever he wants? That’s spoiling him.”
Yeah right. What he probably wanted was to not miss a start. That would be giving him what he wants. The Yankees were right not to do that. Make him miss a few starts, that’s what I proposed. I don’t propose the 35 pitch a week plan.
“The Yankees made Joba what he is and Harlan won’t let him forget that.”
Yeah, and Joba made the Yankees unthinkable amounts of money when he was making his minimum salary. I’d call them even at the very least.
Curious about the Miranda deal. Wonder if he’s been called up to the Yankees.
Or possible call up?
“He could easily have been ready to be back in the rotation by this Sat the 30th, now the earliest could be maybe 9/7, but at the pace he is going now, it will be more like 9/20. Unnecessarily hurting the 2008 Yankees chances.”
Yep, and it’s a very sad thing. The people here love when he pitches but when he talks and voices his opinion it’s like “oh, he’s just a little baby. Joba Chamberlain doesn’t know anything about what’s good for Joba Chamberlain”.
Jeff,
And you know this how? Do you know how healthy Joba is or isn’t? Do you know his actual injury or do you really believe its just rotator cuff tendinitis?
Do you think the Yankees don’t want to pitch him or do you think they are being careful because the downside trumps the upside?
I could understand your point of view if you have seen his medicals or if the Yankees haven’t underplayed every single injury suffered by their players, both at the major league and minor league levels, this year.
Its pretty tough for me to fault them for being careful with Chamberlain. He is after all, the only one of Generation Trey who even looks like he may project at this point.
Yeah, let’s just use him up without building him back. Makes a lot of sense.
kennedy 6 strikeouts in 2 innings in aaa tonight.translates to 10 hits in 2 innings in mlb.
“Once again, you either have to say Joba doesn’t think straight or the Yankees lied to him.”
No, I really don’t. You don’t either. You seem to have set up a false dichotomy for yourself.
I’m not ignoring what Joba said. It just doesn’t prove what you say it proves.
“Do you know how healthy Joba is or isn’t? Do you know his actual injury or do you really believe its just rotator cuff tendinitis?”
Whatever he has was minor enough to be throwing a week later. I bet you Dan Giese didn’t even throw a week later. So if Joba is allowed to throw a week after his “injury”, then how can it be so awful? Why would they risk his health so he could throw in the outfield? That would be the dumbest thing they could do.
This is most likely a case of overplaying the injury to make it seem as if they have a valid reason to shut him down. I wouldn’t be shocked if when Andy Pettitte had a “tired arm” he had what Joba had, or worse, and he was out there the next week.
“I’m not ignoring what Joba said. It just doesn’t prove what you say it proves.”
Nick, it’s such a simple question. Why would Joba be under the impression he would be pitching in a game by the end of the month? That’s simply all I’m asking, and you don’t want to answer. HE said it, not me. That’s all I’m asking, is where he got such a date from.
Giese is already throwing and has been for the past 5 days.
You are making assumptions to feed your theory. Yet, the facts keep getting in the way of the theory. I think that’s what Nick is gently trying to point out to you.
DFox,
You don’t get it. Let’s go back a bit. You argued that Joba would hold this rehab against the Yankees when FA comes up. You say let him pitch like he wants so he doesn’t get mad and sign with another team. Correct? So I say you don’t give in to Joba’s desires and demands out of fear because you condition him to become spoiled.
I know you’re young, but I’ll let you in on a little secret. The secret to raising kids who aren’t spoiled is to tell them ‘no’ early and often. Have you seen kids who throw fits in the store and the parents give in by buying them that toy or candy? Those kids weren’t told no early and often. The kids figured out that if they kept screaming they would get what they want. It’s a conditioned behavior.
Being spoiled is not about the money, it’s acting like a brat so you can get your way.
The Yankees made Joba into a rock star. He had the talent, but the Yankees were the vehicle. Joba in San Diego? Same pitcher, different outcome. Joba vs. the Red Sox? That’s how the legend was born.
This is all moot anyway because Joba’s not going to be mad. Frustrated for sure, but he knows the Yankees are looking out for his best interests.
Why are you taking what Joba says literally? He’s not a doctor.
What if he felt he would be able to pitch in a game at the end of the month and the Yankees felt otherwise?
Or, after throwing, the Yankees felt he wouldn’t be ready?
Can you not see those as possibilities or do you think Joba Chamberlain is now a doctor?
What he says doesn’t matter. Derek Jeter said he was “fine” and played for five weeks with a broken hand. That’s not “fine”.
What Joba says means NOTHING in terms of when/if he is going to pitch.
He doesn’t make the call. That’s up to the doctors and the Yankees.
His job is to follow the rehab program. That’s it.
The rest is up to the Yankees.
“You are making assumptions to feed your theory. Yet, the facts keep getting in the way of the theory. I think that’s what Nick is gently trying to point out to you.”
Wait, it’s a theory that if Joba had a serious injury the Yankees wouldn’t let him throw a week after? That’s new to me. I didn’t know such a simple concept is a “theory”. So you’re under the impression that if Joba had a serious injury or anything to be concerned about he’d be throwing now?
Perhaps Chamberlain is just lying, under orders from Girardi…or…maybe it’s just hopeful anticipation on the part of Chamberlain, because he’s young and can’t stand the inactivity.
Ok SJ, well no I have not seen Joba’s medicals, nor do I pretend to be a doctor on tv or on internet blogs. I think it is pretty obvious though that the Yankees are babying him. If the same injury had happenned to Pettitte or Mussina or even Mo, you know they would be ramping up to be back as quickly as possible because they are not the key long term pitcher in the organization that Joba is at this point.
I personally doubt that anybody, doctor or not can guarantee without a shadow of a doubt that Joba pitching this year will hurt his arm long term, it’s all speculation.
Lastly, I’m sure you’ll call me naive, but I am assuming the Yankees are being honest with the extent of Joba’s injury. If you really want to be a conspiracy theorist, I would theorize that Managment would almost have been happier if the injury was actually worse and they had to shut him down for the season.
As far as him, “holding it against the Yankees” when he is a FA? Really, get a grip.
That has zero chance of happening.
You know what he would hold against the Yankees? If he turned into Mark Prior.
In fact, the Yankees being careful with him scores points with players in the game. It shows them the Yankees care more about the players than their place in the standings right now. That makes the Yankees a preferred destination as opposed to some other places that just throw player care out the window when they are chasing a playoff spot.
Joba Chamberlain makes more money off the field in endorsements than he does in ML salary this year. You know why? Its because he plays for the Yankees.
He realizes what that means. More importantly, so do his agents. That’s what matters.
“What Joba says means NOTHING in terms of when/if he is going to pitch.”
Of course it does… It means he doesn’t believe that he should be in the position he is now. He believes he is being babied. That’s all I’m saying… It’s fine if you don’t care what he says, but don’t act like it doesn’t have an impact on him.
The worst thing is having Joba Chamberlain believing he can be pitching right now and he’s not. That can’t be helpful in the future.
“He realizes what that means. More importantly, so do his agents. That’s what matters.”
You list all that stuff and you leave out the single most important aspect of what a player wants. A player wants to play. You said it yourself before. Joba believes he should be playing RIGHT now. It doesn’t matter if it’s what the Yankees think or not, it’s what he’s thinking in his head right now. That’s what he wants. So if you don’t think he might hold against them not playing when he thought he should be played, then you need to get a grip.
Meanwhile, it’s nice to see Melky seems to be making the best of his demotion. Hopefully he’s working on the skills he needs to stay in the majors the next time, specifically plate discipline.
Granted it’s only 7 games, but his .452 obp has to be encouraging.
IMO, Melky will have a place in the majors. Maybe not as a full time starter, but he’ll be good enough to be a 4th outfielder on a lot of teams.
“I would theorize that Managment would almost have been happier if the injury was actually worse and they had to shut him down for the season.”
Sad but true. At this point, it looks like maybe all these 35 pitch sessions are simply to keep Joba quiet. They probably know if they told him he was being shut down do to a minuscule injury, there would be huge, huge problems. I just worry about the problems at the end of the season if Joba didn’t pitch at all the rest of the year. Then I don’t think he would be Mr. Nice guy anymore. He already voiced some opposition to what they were doing.
Jeff,
You are comparing apples and oranges. You can’t compare Chamberlain with Pettitte, Moose or Rivera from an injury standpoint for several reasons:
1. None of those guys have had shoulder problems in their career. Joba has. Its why he dropped in the draft. In other words, he has a pre-existing medical condition the other 3 players have never had. That plays into his rehab.
2. Those 3 players have a combined 42 years of major league pitching experience. They have enough miles on their arms, and have been fully stretched out for use, for years. Joba has not.
3. All 3 veteran pitchers have been through the wars. They understand what the wear and tear of pitching at the major league level is all about. They also have less violent deliveries than Chamberlain has. Probably why all 3 guys haven’t had shoulder problems in their careers.
Its natural to protect younger arms than older arms. Everybody in baseball does it. Its not just a Yankees thing.
Given the fact the Yankees have slow played every injury suffered by a player this year, its not out of bounds to suspect he probably suffered an injury that is more than “rotator cuff tendinitis”. If that’s all it was, he wouldn’t have been put on the DL.
My guess? He suffered a strained bicep tendon.
Why do I make that assumption? Because the prescribed throwing program for a strained bicep tendon is surprisingly similar to the throwing program he is on now.
Coincidence? Perhaps. I tend to think it isn’t.
That’s based on my experience of owning several minor league teams in my career and seeing pitchers rehab injuries.
As far as the Yankees “wishing” the injury was more serious so they can shut him down, what sense does that make?
They want him to be a starting pitcher. Shutting him down hurts the chances of him starting for a full season next year.
They don’t WANT to shut him down. However, if they feel they have to go that route because its the best course of action, they will do it.
Frankly, I think its admirable if the stance is protecting the player trumps their place in the standings. Its the right thing to do, if that decision has to be made.
Drive,
That is nice to see, but the problems start when he gets on base. He’s trying so hard to prove to the Yankees he can be valuable that he’s running himself off the bases. Getting thrown out trying to take the extra bases. Caught stealing. He just needs to be smarter that’s all.
Attention Damon Oppenheimer !
Set this kid in your sights . . . .
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/08/25/pitcher.toogood.ap/index.html?cnn=yes
miranda was pulled due to diziness…
RalphieD
Where did you hear that?
Once again SJ, it’s hard to argue with you, you are a master-debater. I’ll file this one under agree to disagree, because I still think they are babying Joba, arm trouble history or not.
Another young pitching phenom available now!
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-toogoodtopitch&prov=ap&type=lgns
Karstens – 3 IP, 5 ER
“If that’s all it was, he wouldn’t have been put on the DL.”
You’re a little too much into conspiracy theories. They have no reason to make up an injury for this long. If it wasn’t really what he had, someone would have found that out by now. And I doubt Dr. Andrews would like it if they slap his name on their fake injuries.
Juan Miranda unexpectedly left tonight’s game in the middle of the first inning, but I’m hearing that he simply got dizzy for some reason.
http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.com/Blogs/SWBYankees/tabid/552/Default.aspx
“Joba me once, Joba me twice
Joba throwing off a mound looka real nice”
There is no way they’re taking even a 1% chance with their golden goose.
Especially since their 2 other untouchables crapped out on the first roll this year.
It was a year ago that Jobamania was taking control of the city. We have the same weekday series with the red sox we had at this time last year when Joba was putting his stamp on the rivalry with those 2 Youklis knockdowns.
Great. Now I’m pining for the good old days of 2007.
Thanks, was looking in wrong place on his site.
Oh well, so much for him getting called up.
SJ44,
Congrats on some great posts today and tonight.
I especially find it interesting that Joba could have a strained tendon. That certainly mandates a conservative approach. Joba is a rare commodity for the Yankees.We’re talking about probably the most important pitcher in the organization not named Mariano.
“Nick, it’s such a simple question. Why would Joba be under the impression he would be pitching in a game by the end of the month? That’s simply all I’m asking, and you don’t want to answer.”
I’m starting to think you’re just putting us all on now. In the immortal words of John McEnroe, you cannot be serious.
Why would Joba be under the impression that he would be back pitching by the end of the month? I’m guessing because, at the moment he said it, he thought he would be pitching by the end of the month.
How did he get this idea? Maybe one of trainers on the team said something like “If everything goes as well as it possibly can, you might just be back by the end of the month.” Maybe some uninformed armchair doctor who doesn’t know what he’s talking about said it. Who the heck knows?
But from Joba saying that he would be back by the end of the month you get that he was promised he would be back? And lied to? And that he will be bitter about it and punish the Yankees when he can?
That’s thin evidence. Thin like Edwar.
Maybe the Yankees are being too cautious with Joba’s rehab, maybe not. NONE OF US KNOW. I really hope he’s able to come back as a starter this season. I need him to. The team needs him to, for this year and to build up innings for next season. They know this. If they decide the risk is worth it or that there isn’t much of a risk, they’ll do it. If not, not.
Hey SA – you’re going to need a new/updated tag line…they won the last series
This “Are the Yanks lying about Chamberlain being hurt when he isn’t” is about as ridulous as the “Girardi’s lying about players not being hurt when they are”.
DFox, face facts….it’s a conspiracy to screw up your fantsay baseball team.
***ridiculous***
karsens back to form
rehabbing and throwing off a mound doesn’t simulate the adrenaline that a pitcher feels when he throws in a game.
a pitcher can feel fine, but if they rush the rehab , the first time they crank it up in game conditions can cause the rehabbed area to blow out.
that’s why small steps is the wise approach. i would shut joba down for this year and ,focus on what’s left to try to make the wild card.
“Maybe one of trainers on the team said something like”
Come on Nick, use common sense. I’m done arguing if you actually think the trainers would be the ones to decide when he comes back. Again, if you want to pretend that Joba is crazy, that’s fine. But the bottom line is he’s a smart person saying definitive that he would be back by the end of the month. I’m sorry, that tells me that something isn’t Kosher. I cannot realistically see Joba making a statement like that because that’s what he thinks or “one of the trainers mentioned it”. There’s no player in baseball who is better with the media than him. I doubt he would make the mistake of giving a definitive timeline for his return unless he TRULY believed that it would happen. Again, if you see nothing wrong with the situation, then I feel bad for you. When a player who never makes a mistake with the media says they’ll be back by the end of the month, and they aren’t even close at the end of the month, it’s time to start thinking there’s a problem somewhere.
SJ
What previous shoulder injury did Joba have?
Ian Kennedy’s night should be finished. 6 innings, 4 hits, 2 runs (earned), 2 walks and 9 strikeouts. A lot of pitches, though on deep counts and a lot of fouls. It was a two walk and a homer in the 6th that cost him the runs. 106 pitches and 64 strikes, 42 balls.
Hey SA – you’re going to need a new/updated tag line…they won the last series
LOL! True true. Lemme edit it now
Wow, my head hurts from reading all of that.
So which of you believes in the magic bullet?
Pat:
I believe Joba had some shoulder issues as a collegian that led to him falling in the draft a lot further than he should have.
SJ, thank you for the insight, question do you believe the Yank’s FO realize they need to beef up the organization in terms of instructors and GM assistance?
catcher Chase Weems has been promoted from the GCL to Charleston and Jeff Nutt was deactivated. Weems is catching his first game in Charleston, replacing Romine.
After no hitting the birds through 3, the wheels kind of fell off for the Chicago rookie. 5 hits later, O’s take the lead.
Gotta go. Hold the vigil guys.
GreenBeret7 – Yeah, I was just reading Chad Jennings’ blog and saw that Kennedy had some ups and downs tonight, but he made it sound like Kennedy was starting to figure out some things about pitching, like using his curve ball earlier in the count. I wonder if Nardi Contreras being in town had anything to do with it. Chad also mentioned that he had found something in Hughes’ delivery that might have been affecting him. We’ll see in the games ahead, but if true, reminds me that young pitchers need to work on keeping their mechanics the same.
Sounds like encouraging stuff.
DFox, you are asking me/everyone else to give you a definitive explanation for something about which none of us has all the facts. You’re asking for the precise reason why Joba would say what he said when none of us knows the answer.
What anyone who uses common sense does know is that there are a multitude of possible answers to the question that don’t all include Joba having been lied to by the mean Yankees.
What you are also doing is employing straw men in your statements. I do not “want to pretend that Joba is crazy” as you state. Nor do I think (or did I say) that a trainer would make the decision about when Joba comes back, as you suggest. If you want to refute things I say, please stick to what I actually say, not distortions that you think support your argument.
But I appreciate your feeling bad for me because I don’t see the evidence of perfidy that you see.
Fredo
I thought tricep tendonitis is what Joba suffered from as a collegian not a shoulder injury unless I misremembered.
Pat:
You may well be correct. I know he had an injury history leading up to the draft. Not 100% on whether it was a shoulder or tricep. SJ would likely know.
Joe, if Kennedy was working on things instead of just trying to impress the FO by blowing hitters away, I’m all for it. That’s what he really hasn’t ever had the opportunity to do.
The yapping, snarling and whining about Joba is a sure sign that the Yankees season has degenerated beyond hope.
Let’s discuss sweeping Boston.
Remember that kid Aaron Laffey, the lefty who had a no hitter through 6 innings against us in Cleveland earlier in the year?
He’s opposing Kennedy tonight in AAA and has given up 16 hits in 5 innings.
Who really could have predicted that Wang would tear a tendon in his foot–running the bases, of all things?
That, more than anything, really put the team in a hole this year.
PS–where is Wang? Out of the boot yet? Throwing? Why no news? Is something up? Rehabbing in secret? Bruney, with the same injury, is throwing 95-96 now.
Joba is being handled carefully, and I agree he strained his biceps tendon. Nonetheless, he will pitch the last 3 weeks of the season. I bet he starts, but anything is OK.
Players reach the back of their cards, eventually. For that to happen everyone should have a hot September.
Will it be enough, or 10 games too late?
4-3 White Sox. Thome a homer
Correct–it was tricep tendonitis–likely a similar injury here, and why they are taking it slow.
I’d still take Laffey over Kennedy.
Jobs had tricep tendinitis in college. He also had shoulder issues that caused teams to take him off their draft boards.
Each team reads exams differently to draw their conclusions.
The Yankees felt his shoulder issues were managable. Other teams, like Boston, were more leery. That happens a lot with players.
It’s why the Yankees won’t take any chances with him.
Unfortunately we can’t take this Kennedy start serious, Hafner and Martinez were given the night off. Kennedy threw curve balls and fastballs, didn’t hear much about the change up. Marquez has been called up, Nardi saids Coke, Wright, Melancon and Aceves have impressed him.
Humberto Sanchez in Tampa A
1.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 1 K
GO/AO 1-1
Damn the Phillies are making Torre look really bad
11 hits and ZERO runs???
Anyone know what time Joba showered today, how many times he went to the bathroom, or had a bowel movement?
“What did the President know and when did he know it”: the equivalent answer to which is all that interests me.
When will Joba pitch again in the majors and in what role.
In the meantime, I’m more interested in and worried about the performance of Yankees starters who are pitching.
So the Phillies go into LA and get swept in 4 games.
A week later, the Dodgers go into Philly and they get swept 4 games.
Gotta love baseball.
Montero has a bad night at the dish. 0-4 and 3 strikeouts. really unusual for him to strike out that much.
Laird is 1-2 with an RBI double and a walk.
Angellini is 0-3.
Romine was 0-2 and two more passed balls before he was taken out of the game in the 4th inning.
Torre brings in Sturtze lol
charleston guys are probably tired… nearing the end of a long season, most of them are teenagers who have never played this long of a season before.
all of them had great years– montero, betances, romine, laird, heredia, suttle, etc.
SJ,
While the Yankees certainly have had a lot of injuries to minor league pitchers, that is just a fact of life with pitchers, imo. Most pitching prospects get hurt or burn out…it’s just the way it is.
Steve, two of their best have been pitchers, closer Jonathan Ortiz and wilkins De la Rosa (promoted to Tampa). Both are impressive, but, De La Rosa is going to move up fast. I’d guess he’ll be in Trenton to start next year. He’s just toying with the FSL players. Not bad for his first full year of pitching.
joe torre is now under .500 after getting swept 4 games in philly.
Steve, two of their best have been pitchers, closer Jonathan Ortiz and wilkins De la Rosa (promoted to Tampa). Both are impressive, but, De La Rosa is going to move up fast. I’d guess he’ll be in Trenton to start next year. He’s just toying with the FSL players. Not bad for his first full year of pitching.
GB is Ortiz still fastball change up ?
Ok, I’m late to the thread today–did Torre really bring in Sturtze?
Lionara the 5 tool 16 year old CF signed today. Anyone?
*Lianora*
De la Rosa is impressive. How old is he?
Bo, Erickson Lianaro a venezuelan CF 5 tool signed late because he just turned 16 yrs. old that’s all we know right now.
“De la Rosa is impressive. How old is he?”
He’ll be 24 when ‘09 season begins.
Who signed this lefty Venezuelan?
M
On this day in baseball history:
Baltimore 4
Chicago 3
===========
Chicago 4
Baltimore 3
Thanks Brandon
sorry if im clueless but what team signed him?? yankees lol?
Bo, a more athletic Jose Tabata..again I’ll try to find more info on him but this looks like the kid Carlos Rios hinted before he was released.
Yes the Yankees signed Lianaro, Psst, Rios legacy.
We’ll need 2 forms of identification, please.
Ok, he’s a premium CF, very athlethic word is comparisons to Marquis Grissom, Andruw Jones, and Jose Tabata. He right now is the best IFA signed player from this year’s crop by the Yankees, he will start in DSL soon.
Brandon,
They way people have talked around here, it sounds like he’s the only IFA signing.
Way to blow the no-hitter, Batista.
Wait, Lianora *just* turned 16?? Then what was he doing on the Chinese women’s gymnastics team?!??
Well, I guess now we know why Cash decided to trade Tabata. He found a younger, better version of him
Some others signed
Yicok Calderon RF That’s the guy I’m pulling for.
Jackson Valera
Giancarlo Arias
If you can’t pull for Yicok, then you can’t pull at all.
Nick, that was priceless!
Brandon,
They way people have talked around here, it sounds like he’s the only IFA signing.
Mel early word on this kid is 5 tool premium, he is already a top notch defender w/ a gun. He will be starting in CF this year in DSL, how legit is that not even Deleon or Urena or Sosa started at 16 in DSL.
My mistake I meant GCL, sorry I’m still shocked 16 year old in GCL I think Tabata and Montero were the last kids for us to do that.
Courtesy of Google
“The lianare “pinte with ragù meat sauceâ€, a particular form of pasta that takes its name from the “lianaroâ€, a typical rolling-pin with grooves which is used in their preparation”.
Well just got back from a GREAT weekend in Ocean CIty and ready for the big series. ALso just finished watching a very very interesting piece on E60 (not sure if this was last weeks episode or an advance of tomorrow’s) but great piece on baseball in China and what the Yankees are doing there.
Although I dont think we will see the fruits of labor anytime soon it does really seem the Yankees have a real opportunity there and if the Chinese baseball players grow at the same rate as some of the Chinese Olympians did this past few weeks it could be very interesting
gayle, I’d like to hear all about your trip to Ocean City. I am going back in November!
ellen: thanks!
Nick: I had such a rotten day at work, and the blog has kept me laughing – of course, some of the funniest stuff was not intended to be so!
when will sanchez be ready for the yankees. if im not mistaken he is two years removed from elbow surgery.
This might already have been mentioned:
Twins acquired Eddie Guardado from the Rangers for Hamburger.
The way our bullpen has been overworked lately, we could have used Guardado and offered the Rangers more than hamburger!!!!
And with that moronic joke, to all a good night.
Jody Gerut with a walkoff HR
Jody Gerut with a walkoff HR
I told you guys about him.
SJ44, everything you’re saying makes total sense. Joba is an awesome young talent, and I’m glad to see the Yankees being as protective and conservative as they are with his rehab. As to the old-school objections and complaints about babying, two words: Mark Prior. And two more: Kerry Wood. The same people who want Joba to be thrown back into the thick of things without further delay would lose their minds altogether if he then ended up worsening the injury or needing shoulder surgery. Please.
If we don’t get to see Joba again this year and if the Yankees miss the postseason, or get bounced out in the first round because they don’t have enough pitching, that’s bearable. But blowing out Joba’s shoulder as a result of rushing him back would not be.
Beltre walkoff! Twins lose! Twins lose!
With today’s games (Monday, 8/25)
Red Sox go 450 rest of way = we need to go 19-13 to tie
Red Sox go 500 rest of way = we need to go 21-11 to tie
Red Sox go 550 rest of way = we need to go 23-9 to tie
Red Sox go 600 rest of way = we need to go 24-8 to tie
White Sox go 450 rest of way = we need to go 19-13 to tie
White Sox go 500 rest of way = we need to go 21-11 to tie
White Sox go 550 rest of way = we need to go 22-10 to tie
White Sox go 600 rest of way = we need to go 24-8 to tie
Twins go 450 rest of way = we need to go 18-14 to tie
Twins go 500 rest of way = we need to go 20-12 to tie
Twins go 550 rest of way = we need to go 21-11 to tie
Twins go 600 rest of way = we need to go 23-9 to tie
HaHa, Nick. I saw that. And the good thing is they used up a lot of pitching in the first game of the series.
5 GB in loss column to Boston
4 GB in loss column to Chicago
3 GB in loss column to Minnesota
To say that tomorrow’s game is important is an understatement.
Yankee sweep starts tomorrow.
The only thing the Sox have over us is 5 games in the loss column. They’re just as dissheveled as we are.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/john_donovan/08/25/donovan.windup/index.html?eref=T1
I Havent seen anybody mention a scouting report on Joba when he was first drafted. The scout noted that he went low in the draft because other teams were worried about his conditioning and that he was injury prone.
Hhmmmm.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/john_donovan/08/25/donovan.windup/index.html?eref=T1
We’re actually in better shape than the Sox from the way Donovan describes it.
Wordpress don’t like Donovan much?
Check out the article at SI. The Sox are in pretty bad shape, too. Ripe for the taking.
you guys gotta stop with this 21-13 stuff or whatever look at it this way were 5 games back we sweep boston were 2 games back then you go from there you cant look at it like 21-13 and that crap