Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 27, 2008 
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It was October in August for Alex Rodriguez as the Yankees lost the series opener against the Red Sox.
Columnist Sam Borden wonders whether the Yankees would be in this position were Joe Torre still the manager.
The Yankees will not let their place in the standings dictate when Joba Chamberlain returns.This notebook also has some details on instant replay and a few updates on the Red Sox.
The Mets blew a seven-run lead and lost to the Phillies last night. Josh Thomson was on hand for the carnage.
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Check back around 3:30 p.m. for the game post. The New York beat writers are playing the Boston beat writers this morning at the Stadium to start our annual home-and-home series.
We’ll be looking to avenge our loss at Fenway Park last season that snapped a seven-year win streak. I’ll be looking to not blow out a hamstring.
————-
Sidney Ponson against Paul Byrd tonight. Over/under is 22. Or at least it should be.
I really hope we win today…
Sure Torre would have made a difference, why he would have moved Alex back in the line up to the 7 spot.
Looks like it’s time to turn my attention to the Buckeyes.
Honestly, the Torre comparisons are dumb.
He’s currently under .500 with the most talented team in NL West.
If he was such a magical elixir, how do you explain that? Or, how do you explain his 4-13 record in his last 17 playoff games?
To paraphrase James Carville, it’s the players, stupid.
Once folks understand that, the discussions of what to do about it can be logically discussed.
Hey I made it back from TDY…
Last night was rough as far as the call for strike’s..that ump flat out was horrible…I felt bad for Andy he had to pretty much lay one in there for a call…
But that great line-up, with the 4-5th spots was quit awesome weren’t they….not to mention Giambino’s throw to the plate……..
I don’t get it, you keep the same line-up…and even Jason defense sucks…
Hey at least we only have 3 more days of this line-up…maybe with alot of call ups they will use someone different at 1st, and move Hideki up to 4th, spot slide Arod back to 5 or 6..
In one fell swoop Boston got help from the Yankees, Twins, and Rays.
The Yankees represent nothing that even hints at a championship caliber team.
i would bat giambi 8th tonight.nady 5th matsui 6th cano 7th.i am a hopeful idiot and ashamed of myself.i care more than they due.arod is a great ballplayer but he cannot get it done when needed.he looks like it doesn’t matter to him either way.andy at least was kicking the dirt in disgust.if we win next 2 that is a big if.we will be 4 out with 1 month to play.if we lose tonight we need to place some players on waivers.
The Red Sux didn’t WIN the game, WE LOST it.
Sam Borden makes an interesting point, as usual, about whether or not Torre would have been able to coax more out of this team. But I think Sam begs the question.
Could Torre have skippered this team to a few more wins? Maybe. Probably. But what does that tell me? It tells me that this team is too finely bred, too old, sensitive and unbalanced, unable to easily, predictably and regularly access the natural talent we see on paper and compete. The sad fact is that the 2008 Yankees are a $200 million Frankenstein, complete with scars, neck bolts, green skin and high, black Timberlands. Without Joe “Dr. Frankenstein” Torre around the monster is having trouble staying in the game and the villagers are warming up their torches for the final scene.
Was the “Frankenstein” factor unknown to the front office? Not at all. Cash has been talking younger, cheaper, more athletic and that plan is already underway with mixed results; but without question it is the plan going forward. No More Monster.
Yes, they were willing to let Joe T stay to continue whispering sweet nothings into the green beast’s stitched-on ears or beating him on his flat head when he needed discipline. But there was disagreement about how much longer they wanted to run this freak show. So, they low-balled Joe T., not because they didn’t love him, but because they had grown ashamed of the spectacle of this team and its handler. Owing to no-cut contracts, they couldn’t fire the team. So, getting rid of Joe T. became the first step in the re-building process.
Without the good Doctor to do CPR one last time, the monster is done. Cash refused to provide any big, last minute Free Agent transfusions or transplant parts (i.e., Santana), imposing instead a Do Not Resuscitate order.
So, comparing Joe G and Joe T misses the point, IMO. Joe G. is here to pull the plug. In the end, you have to consider the Monster’s quality of life. It’s time to let him go.
Torre as manager would make the players hit better with RISP?
That’s just dumb.
One thing you can criticize Girardi for is the sometimes bizarre lineup decisions. He has finally settled on a set lineup so that one is pretty much overcome by events.
I like Girardi’s bullpen management better than Torre’s. It was said by many that Girardi would burn out the young pitchers as “he had done in FL”. Well that was proven to be bogus.
murphydog,
DEEP.
I know Murphydog is up a few coffees on me. Good post.
yankeesrule57,
giradi didn’t give up 10 hits in 4 innings.giradi didn’t go 0 for 5 2 dp’s and an error.you are right.he did bat giambi 5th which is absurd considering you have nady and matsui both clutch with power.your 2 worst clutch hitters can’t bat back 2 back in the middle of your lineup.
My beefs -
1) Girardi or somebody, anybody should have been in Reynold’s face last night and gotten tossed or something. That was the most abysmal performance by an umpire I have seen all year. And despite what all of the apologists for umpires have said that changed the game significantly.
2) Does anyone dive for a grounder in the middle of the infield for the Yankees? There are many plays a second basemen can make by diving. Cano never does. It actually looks like he lets up sometimes.
3) Unless Girardi can bring some fire to this team he ought to be fired. The only thing he’s done since he’s been here is ban candy from the clubhouse. It looks to me like everybody is getting paid way too much money and not really caring enough despite all they say. It’s called winning baseball. It takes doing the little things: throwing home when someone is circling the bases, remembering who’s covering second, picking up runners in scoring position, not letting the umpires get away with continually horrible calls for extended periods of time, getting dirty making plays, etc.
Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.
“I know Murphydog is up a few coffees on me. Good post.”
Without coffee, life as I know it would not exist.
“2) Does anyone dive for a grounder in the middle of the infield for the Yankees? There are many plays a second basemen can make by diving. Cano never does. It actually looks like he lets up sometimes.”
but he’s the greatest most talented 2nd baseman ever in the history of second baseman, especially now because he’s a potential gold glover and he has 20-30HR power and he can win batting titles and he’s a top 5 defensive player and top 5 offensive player at his position, dont you dare talk about robinson “the King” cano in that manner!#$#$^Q!@$!
Kinda off topic, but did you read about Kenny Rogers talkin’ crap about the yanks & instant replay ?
“Unless Girardi can bring some fire to this team he ought to be fired”
whoaaaaaa, the fire Girardi thing already ?
Phelps Phan
“The Red Sux didn’t WIN the game, WE LOST it.”
That’s the attitude that is making them such a bad team this year. They got beat by a team that plays harder, it’s tough to watch but the Sox player look like they will run through walls to win a game, the Yankees don’t. We’re not going to win until we see a team full a guys that play like that.
Rough game last night all around I don’t care who was umpiring. Arod was abysmal, Pettitte gave up a ton of hits. This team just played like crap and it looks like the fans at the Stadium are just about ready to explode. The booing has bgun to get loud.
I have tickets for tomorrows game and I am psyched about the matchup I get. However, if we blow this game tonight, tomorrows game won’t even matter.
Torre would have the balls to sit Giambi, he’d have the balls to move Arod up in the lineup. Larry Bowa would still be here which would probably give Cano a minimum extra 30 pts on his BA. On the other hand half the bullpen would be prepping for surgery right now.
I think we’d be in a worse position with Torre. Joe has gotten way more out of his pen than Torre ever could have. He has gotten a lot out of Brian than Joe T ever did. I heard Brian say it is nice to have a manager who believes in you.
If you were in Joe t’s dog house you stayed in there.
“That’s the attitude that is making them such a bad team this year. They got beat by a team that plays harder, it’s tough to watch but the Sox player look like they will run through walls to win a game, the Yankees don’t. We’re not going to win until we see a team full a guys that play like that.”
Exactly. Boston made the plays when they had to, got the outs when they needed them and got the hits when it mattered. The Yankees did none of those. Bottom line is the better team did indeed WIN the game last night.
arod original number was 3.he picked 13 and cursed himself and the yankees.
“He has gotten a lot out of Brian than Joe T ever did. I heard Brian say it is nice to have a manager who believes in you.”
Let’s see how much Girardi believes in him after last night’s walkfest.
Someone tell Kenny to stuff a sock in it. He stinks as a pitcher and can only pitch well when he CHEATS
Kenny hates all things involving cameras.
“it’s tough to watch but the Sox player look like they will run through walls to win a game”
There young, and they hustle every play. Were Old, and hustle when we feel like it, or when it benefits us.Or at least thats what it looks like to me.
“Cash has been talking younger, cheaper, more athletic and that plan is already underway with mixed results; but without question it is the plan going forward.”
murphydog-
after cashman’s team( and this is his team) ruined your night with your brother’s big screen tv debut. that thing is 0-1 in big games. how can you still be so enamored with cashman?
isn’t there a qualifier in there with ” younger, cheaper, more athletic” like ” and can play baseball”. i firmly believe that under cashman this team will continue to spiral downward.
there are two schools of thought. one is yours that cash has led the yankees out of the fog and soon there will be sunlight. the other is that cashman is leading them out of fog over a cliff.
i really think if cashman stays with the managment power he has now that we are looking at a ten year yankee drought. cashman will ruin the yankees for a generation. the reason i say this is that there is a new game going on with revenue sharing, a curb on peds and the resulting dumb baseball where situational hitting and pitching didn’t matter so much.
the twins do little things like have their pitchers throw strikes and lead the league in not walking hitters. all their players are taught to bunt and put the ball in play at all levels.
a player with limited hitting skills like arod would not be tolerated with the twins. he is limited because he can not put the ball in play at will at the mlb level. he can not bunt. he can not hit the opposite way to move a runner over. he has one swing . all out.
no one on the yankees does a thing to curb arod’s brain dead all out two strike swing. this sends a great message to all the other hitters in the organization that you don’t have to be a complete hitter to make the most money. just put up numbers.
if cashman really wanted to move on and start fresh, he should have let arod walk and have used the 30 million a year to get young, athletic players who can play the game.
that would have meant making a lot of trades with the twins and angels and rays organizations because that is where young players are taught to play the game right.
the yankee farm system under cashman’s iron hand teach the young players that to make big money you swing form the heels and get as many homers,rbis, and the highest ops possible. wins don’t matter. big numbers rule.
the yankees under cashman’s leadership do not play the game right. can anything worse be said about a baseball team?
“if cashman really wanted to move on and start fresh, he should have let arod walk and have used the 30 million a year to get young, athletic players who can play the game.”
to be fair, i think he was prepared to do that, and when ARod came crawling back to the Steinbrenners, Hank and Hal told Cash to get it done.
Tonight, Girardi should get ejected…or we should start a fight.
I think the comparisons between Torre and Girardi are futile (I wouldn’t call them dumb, but futile).
The one area where I clearly think Girardi’s presence has improved the Yankees is in his bullpen management, which (Damaso Marte notwithstanding) seems better than Joe-let-me-Quantrill-Sturtze-and-Proctorize-every-arm-until-it-falls-off-Torre.
The one area where I clearly think Torre’s presence would have improved the 2008 Yankees is that Torre would have almost certainly have had Larry Bowa on his staff, and that would have helped the Yankes in two ways (at least): (a) Much better calls to go or stay when at 3B (Bowa being a very, very good 3B coach); and, (b) Probably better performance by Cano, who Bowa seemed to get to and managed to get out of funks/streaks of underperformance/dogging it.
“that would have meant making a lot of trades with the twins and angels and rays organizations because that is where young players are taught to play the game right.”
i think everyone needs to stop comparing the yankees organization to organizations who, all put goether combined, dont have, what, like half the championships the yankees do.
“the yankee farm system under cashman’s iron hand teach the young players that to make big money you swing form the heels and get as many homers,rbis, and the highest ops possible. wins don’t matter. big numbers rule.”
this is just over-reactionary nonsense.
This may have been posted last night, but wasn’t that game a snap shot of the season.
The good…The pen, getting men on base.
The bad…Starting pitching, hitting with runners in scoring position.
The ugly…Defense, Arod and Giambi in clutch spots.
I have to disagree with any tea leaf readers here. Without any exaggeration, I believe with health, one key FA signing, and some small moves, this team is easily a 95 win team again next year.
“I have to disagree with any tea leaf readers here. Without any exaggeration, I believe with health, one key FA signing, and some small moves, this team is easily a 95 win team again next year.”
yeah, i agree.
“The New York beat writers are playing the Boston beat writers this morning at the Stadium to start our annual home-and-home series.”
i wonder which side does pete plays on? i mean anyone who is a die hard patriots fan had to be a red sox fan as a kid .
not that there is anything wrong with red sox fans per se. some of my best friends are red sox fans. we just don’t talk during big series like this.
“I have to disagree with any tea leaf readers here. Without any exaggeration, I believe with health, one key FA signing, and some small moves, this team is easily a 95 win team again next year.”
Totally agree. were just a CC & a 1B from WS contention.
“Unless Girardi can bring some fire to this team he ought to be firedâ€
He should NOT be fired. However, he is not blameless in how this season has played out. Half the battle in managing is dealing with personalities and establishing a mindset that breeds winning, or at least breeds 100% effort towards the goal of winning. Scoscia has done that in Disneyland. His fromer right hand, Maddon, has done it in Tampa. Gardenhire has done in Minnesota. Francona has done it in Boston. Joe G has not done it here. Crisp scoring from 2nd on that ground ball to 3rd was a perfect example. Arod actually made a nice play to field that ball, but he probably should have eaten it as he had no shot at getting the runner. Once the throw was made, Giambi has to be awake. It quite obviously never occured to him that Crisp would keep running (despite the fact he was being vociferously waved in by the 3B coach). Further, you see that play from the camera on the 3B side, and it’s evident Molina didn’t see it coming either. That’s not physical, that’s mental. That play was in some ways a microcosm of the ’08 season for the Yankees. This group, while more than capable of it, simply has not played the game the right way this year.
Pete, can you put a poll on the site asking fans if they really want Arod on this team or not?
I think it’s important. They signed him to a 10 year contract, if I am Hank/Hal, I’m wondering what the negative impact will be of him actually playing in pinstripes for 9 more years.
turn two-
name one fundamentally sound player to come out the yankee farm system under cashman’s guidance.
name a young player that can bunt well. melky, cano, gardner?
“this is just over-reactionary nonsense.”
i guess i’ve been over reacting for a few years then because i’ve been saying it all along.
We lost on fundamentals again last night as we have most of the year.
To be honest I’m not sure which manager would be better at this between the Joe’s.
I think the team they respected Torre more than they do Joe G.
I wish we would have got Lou, he would have no prob benching under performer’s…and would have done fundamentals, although I know he couldn’t have existed with Cash and the Stein boy’s..
I agree I don’t think Cash would have paid AROD…
Good post, murphydog.
One thing Borden’s article doesn’t mention, though, is the even slower-than-usual start the Yankees got off to this season. I don’t believe Joe Torre would have lasted to the All-Star break, all things being the same except for the manager. If anyone recalls, there was endless speculation over whether Torre would be fired during the course of last season, until they made their run later in the year. The situation would have been similar to what the Mets endured the first part of this season. (Willie stay or Willie go?)
Without being in the clubhouse or the manager’s office, how can anyone really know what Girardi does or does not do/say to his players? And why is it so difficult to lay the “blame” where it belongs – the underperformance of the team, notwithstanding the few bright spots – the bullpen/Mike Mussina/Xavier Nady among them? And you can’t totally discount what Girardi has managed to get out of the bullpen – it was Torre’s Achilles’ heel, and Girardi has done remarkably well turning a weakness into a relative strength.
I am at a loss as to why Giambi is still given opportunity after opportunity in the 5th hole, way more often than not coming up short. If there was no one else available to at least try in the 5th spot, I’d understand it; however Nady has shown he’s capable and certainly now that Matsui is back, I don’t see why he can’t be put there. These are desperate times right now, and desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures. And frankly, sitting Giambi altogether would not be out of place here – simply moving him in the order is really too kind of a way to deal with this non-production. And if it’s about the team, then (or rather, the manager) has to look beyond the names within the uniforms.
ARod is another story, and aside from the really sad RISP, he has contributed. The only way to know if he is being hurt by having Giambi hit behind him is to try someone who is actually a threat hit behind him. Why not? What the heck have they got to lose at this point? I’m sure they couldn’t do too much worse than Giambi and his just about .200 with RISP.
So, it’s Ponson tonight. Let’s hope he got his really bad start out of his system last night.
What’s the Yankees’ record this season following days off? It sure seems like they’ve lost more of those than they’ve won.
“i guess i’ve been over reacting for a few years then because i’ve been saying it all along.”
yeah, you have been. thats ok, you dont like cashman, and i get that.
Time for Arod to Leave,
&& where would we have been last year without A-Rod ?
gardner can’t bunt.
think about that.
are you kidding me?
the yankee minor league system does not teach players to play right.
if they did, gardner could bunt.
randy, I have friends from Conn., and there it is common to pick and choose. Being a Yanks and Patriots fan is normal for a Conn. person. I have no idea who Pete roote for as a kid, but I think the claims on this blog that he is biased are crap. He is a reporter who, on the blog, adds his opinion to the facts he reports. Just because his opinion might be, at times, anti-Yankee, doesn’t mean he is anti-Yankee. I’m about as big a Yankee fan you’ll ever meet, but I am critical of my own team all the time, when it’s deserved. And this year, it’s deserved a lot.
**that’s: Let’s hope he (ponson) got his really bad start out of his system last time.
Boy, some of you are about as patient as a two year old in a candy store.
Girardi should be fired because his team can’t hit with RISP? It’s Giradi’s fault that several Yankees are having down years? Somehow Torre would make them play better? Puh-leeze! Don’t make me laugh. Take a look at the Dodgers who play in the worst division in baseball. They aren’t exactly a powerhouse this year are they?
Did some of you think the Yankees were never going to miss the playoffs again? The truth of the matter is a lot of Yankee fans are spoiled and unrealistic. Too many years of having George run the team I say.
Some of you act like you’ve only been watching baseball for the past 7 years. Every rookie who struggles is a bum. The manager gets one year to win it all or else he’s gone. Sorry but the organization is in much better shape now than they were in the 80′s. Hopefully management will stick to the plan and not revert to the 80′s way of thinking again in the offseason. If they miss the playoffs so be it. The team will survive, the fans of the team will survive, life will go on.
Criticizing Cashman solely based on the results this season is like criticizing the architect of the new Yankee Stadium because the Yanks can’t play tonight’s game there.
The guy in 2 1/2 years has rebuilt the entire minor league system from scratch. Should the kids have better fundamentals? Absolutely. Does that happen over night?
“Good post, murphydog.”
murphydog-
ditto that. i forgot to say that as i disagreed with your always entertaining and well written post.
i too would pull the plug on this monser out of humanitarian concerns.
Ray, if you hit the nail any harder on the head, it would have gone clear through the two-by-four. Excellent post.
“i think everyone needs to stop comparing the yankees organization to organizations who, all put goether combined, dont have, what, like half the championships the yankees do.”
Turn Two, 20 of those titles have absolutely nothing to do with today’s Yankees organization. Further, the current front office is responsible for ZERO of the 26 (unless Stick is still a figure head somewhere in the organization). As the Yankees organization, as currently comprised, no longer stands head and shoulder above the rest, I think comparisons to other organizations are reasonable, don’t you???
Larry Bowa is with Torre and Donnie Baseball in LA. Their charge was to get their young players going and to play the game the right way.
How’s that working out?
Once spring training ends, it’s about the players. It’s not the umpires, manager, or coaches responsible for this horrible season.
Want to change the results? Change the players and that can’t happen now until the off-season.
It’s said when they leave Giambi in the line-up, when he doesn’t hit with RISP, provides no protection to A-rod, and runner’s score from 2nd because he can’t throw on an infield play…I guess there is allot of stuff we don’t know….I can’t imagine what it would be…couldn’t they move Hideki to 5th spot and try Ransom at 1st, hell he’s 2 for 2 both HR’s..
Phelps fan-I don’t know, ousted in the first round of the playoffs or basically where we are this year?
I’m not a big fan of relying to much on one guy to drive in runs.
Arod has demonstrated that he is not good when the season is on the line, this year he’s taken it a step forward and demonstrated that he is just not good after the 7th inning so what gives?
We’re stuck with him for 10 years now? Is he really that good that we want him around for 9 more? I don’t think I’m alone in saying that the championship teams in the 90′s had no Arod’s, just guys that wanted to win and had their heads in the game.
Sorry should have said “sad”
” Being a Yanks and Patriots fan is normal for a Conn. person.”
i grew up in ct. and have nephews there who are both yanks and patriot fans. that’s a new phenomenon and was not part of pete’s generation.
also my nephews are good athletes who i have to ease up to play catch with them. what does the younger generation really know anyway about baseball anyway? lol.
“As the Yankees organization, as currently comprised, no longer stands head and shoulder above the rest, I think comparisons to other organizations are reasonable, don’t you???”
i have no problem saying that other organizations are solid from top to bottom, but to say the yankees need to be like them, and they dont know what they are doing now is silly to me. the fundamental structure of the organization during the years of the dynasty is still relatively in place.
do the yankees need to improve, sure. you can always improve.
but these other organizations, like the Twins, or the Rays, or the Athletics, etc, for as good as they are now, still havent gotten the job done themselves, either.
SJ44,
I think you’re answering me.
Your logic is very flawed, because you seem to be implying that Torre, Bowa and Don Mattingly are not getting the Dodgers young players going and playing the righ way AND that this is proof that Torre and co. would not have really made a difference with the Yanks.
Seeing as how the Yanks and Dodgers have different players, it’s unrealistic to compare the output of the managemen team.
It IS realistic to wonder if the former management team of the Yankees could not have been better at at least SOME matters than the current management team, such as Bowa’s being a MUCH BETTER 3B coach than Meacham OR Bowa’s reportedly getting better concentration and production from Cano.
Having said that, I am fairly content with Girardi’s season, do not wish him terminated and do not pine for Torre and co.
randy, what is with the younger generation of baseball kids in Conn.? Throing so hard, they’re not allowed to play!
“Criticizing Cashman solely based on the results this season is like criticizing the architect of the new Yankee Stadium because the Yanks can’t play tonight’s game there.”
if cashman were the architect of the new yankee stadium it would collapse flatter than the birthday cake sparky lyle sat on.
raymagnetic:
I have no problem if they don’t make the play-off’s, I would just like them to use all the tools available they have now, if one tool isn’t working, use another one that’s all I ask.
“Sorry but the organization is in much better shape now than they were in the 80’s.”
How so? Can anyone name one legitimate corner outfield or corner infield prospect above AA ball? Any replacements for Jeter on the horizon? Any options in the system if they wanted to trade Cano? Other than Austin Jackson, how many of the Yankees farmhands in AA or higher can be termed “athletes”?
What upsets me isn’t the Yankees not making the playoffs. What upsets me is that this is looking like 1965 and 1980 all over again. The Yankees are an aging team with next to nothing in their minor league system other than pitching prospects.
“it a step forward and demonstrated that he is just not good after the 7th inning so what gives?”
Wasn’t he like one of the greatest “clutch” hitters in baseball last season ? & now he’s trash ?
Granted, i dont want him for 9 more years. & yea he tries a little too hard. But at least he’s trying.
He’s probley the greatest player were gonna see in our lifetime. and it’s sad that we don’t / can’t appreciate that. Not to say he shoudn’t be criticized, but we’ve been bashing this guy like for 4yrs already. Give him a break.
& yea there wasn’t an A-Rod on the 90′s teams. Doesn’t mean they woudn’t have liked an A-Rod on their team, but it’s different times. it’s like comparing the Dream Team to the Redeem Team.
I don’t think comparing Joe’s is gonna help, however Torre is not good with “young player’s” he’s gets more from veteran player’s. Joe G is good with young player’s ex.. Marlins, so some may wonder, but the truth is the Torre ship sailed, he isn’t coming back and the Yanks are going to get young..that’s why Joe G was hired.
Drive 4-5,
I agree 100%. That is my problem with the team right now. To be honest, even if they made the playoffs this year, they ain’t getting past the first round. When you can’t string together consecutive wins at home or on the road against the AL’s best teams(this shouldn’t be a new revelation to anyone), you are not going to advance. The lack of concentration, minor league depth, and the evolution of other teams in the league does not bode well for this team. As SJ has mentioned earlier as well, the way they played the draft was worse than their hittin with RISP.
“What upsets me is that this is looking like 1965 and 1980 all over again. The Yankees are an aging team with next to nothing in their minor league system other than pitching prospects.”
The farm system can’t be turned around overnight. Also, pitching prospects are chips that can be turned into position players (ie: the Nady trade).
If one defines “good” as being in a pennant race most years, then the Athletics and Twins certainly are good. The Rays have done extremely well this season – they have used the opportunity provided by having excellent draft picks to their benefit and apparently have the people in place who are able to find the right players for their organization. But to call them a good team in the historical sense is just wrong. And most definitely, you’d have to call the Yankees a “good” team based on that definition.
Now, it seems to me just from reading here over the last couple of years that too many people hold the Yankees to a way higher standard than they do every other team in MLB. The Athletics contend, but do not win. They develop pitchers, but then trade them away at the expense of winning it all; the Twins just don’t have the budget, it would seem, because they won’t sign their franchise players when they hit free agency. They play fundamentally sound baseball, but they haven’t “won it all” in a long time.
There’s nothing inherently wrong in wanting what’s yours to be best, but you can’t have one higher standard for your team when your standards for other teams are less AND YOUR OWN TEAM MEETS THOSE LOWER STANDARDS.
The Yankees are undoubtedly having a disappointing year. Yet, they are playing currently 9 games over .500. Not great, but not horrible. So maybe they won’t get to the post season this year. In my mind, what makes that palatable is twofold. First, it’s unrealistic to believe that any team can win their division EVERY YEAR in perpetuity – players age, other teams make adjustments, etc. Second, the Yankees as an organization are not satisfied with not winning the division (all quotes by Hank Steinbrenner notwithstanding) and will make improvements.
But even if the team does everything the fans want them to do personnel-wise, the game comes down to how the play unfolds on the field. Only the players themselves have the ultimate control there. The Yankees last night played scared, not confident.
mitch-
i vaguely heard about that kid ,but i don’t know the details.
when i was a kid in little league(late 50′s), we played an all star game against a kid that was 6 feet tall named rich la gace from manchester, ct( age 12) who hit a home run that looked like it went three times the size of the baseball field.
oh , and he pitched. i thought he was going to kill someone.
the coaches just said go up there and die like a man.
… and ” but coach, we’re only 12″ didn’t help.
things are different now. no offense really to younger players. they just don’t get to play the way we did when i was a kid.
“i have no problem saying that other organizations are solid from top to bottom, but to say the yankees need to be like them, and they dont know what they are doing now is silly to me. the fundamental structure of the organization during the years of the dynasty is still relatively in place”
It’s not silly. Know why??? Because the fundamental structure of the organization during the years of the dynasty (we can go round and round about whether it’s still in place) are the primary reason the Yankees are where they are now. Years of bad contracts, poor drafting and ignoring the farm system have resulted in 3-4 seasons of an over 30 softball team that can slug their way to the playoffs but do little else.
While the fundamental structure may be somewhere close to the same, the philosophy has changed……for the better. That’s a good thing, but you can’t give the organization a pass on the $1.5 billion or so they’ve dropped into the past 7 years which, one pennant aside, have resulted in increasingly disappointing seasons.
“As SJ has mentioned earlier as well, the way they played the draft was worse than their hittin with RISP.”
no, it wasnt. while most here respct SJ and his opinions, he’s not the bible on the draft.
“To be honest, even if they made the playoffs this year, they ain’t getting past the first round.”
and everyone thought the same about the Cardinals in ’06. anything can happen if you get in… just gotta get in first, which isnt looking likely now.
I dont really get how people sit here and say, “well, Alex was so good last season how can we be so hard on him”.
Have any of you watched some of these games? He has almost become a guaranteed out with Runners on. My guess is 90% of you all knew he was either going to strike out, pop up, or hit into a double play when Abreu walked last night to load the bases.
Best player? Maybe the best home-run hitter, but .240 with RISP doesnt make you the best.
Randy l,
That has to be some of the silliest nonsense I have ever read. The Twins wouldn’t tolerate a hall of fame hitter, but they can tolerate Nick Punto and assorted other scrubs who’ve been their DH. You cant possibly believe that junk you wrote. Unless you truly are that dumb.
Turn two,
I don’t think he is the bible on the draft, but I do agree with his draft stance. Tell me the upsides to the draft? Especially versus other teams. I may sound pessimestic, however if you watched the same team I watched this year I could care less what the ’06 cardinals did.
randy:
My unwillingness to bury Cashman really comes from being unable to separate what Cashman did or thought while under house arrest by Big Stein from what he does and thinks after winning “autonomy” over baseball ops. Was the Marte/Nady deal a good one? Sure. Abreu and Lidle? I think so. Were there some flops? Yes. To me the team on the field bears the stamp of mixed decision making and it’s unreasonable, IMO, to saddle Cash with full responsibility for the team you see right now. The Yankees are paying the piper now for ten years of overindulging in FAs, bad farming, poor drafting and inadequate player development.
As for A-Rod, it is what it is. Sure, the Twins wouldn’t put up with him, but they don’t have a budget that allows them to ever have signed him, so what is to be drawn from hypothetically putting him in Minnesota?
I suppose it was hard for somebody at the highest Yankee levels to walk away from A-Rod, his production, year in and year out, for the next 10 years, away from owning a piece of the new HR record A-Rod will presumably set while in pinstripes. Don’t forget that A-Rod made the case that the opt out was a mistake and unintended, and that before the opt out the Yankees wanted him back. The A-Rod money really isn’t an issue for the Steinbrenners, what with the new stadium and the YES Network generating cash. And the guy is going through a divorce – how do you know the effect it’s having on him? He sure seemed clutch and comfortable last year. Which is the real A-Rod? Jury’s out IMO but he certainly has limits. I say that they must protect their investment in A-Rod by getting the right guy to hit behind him.
The Yankees won’t be down for 10 years with Cashman. You can certainly disagree with some of the moves he’s made – assuming of course that Cash and not someone else made them. But there is no reason to think Cashman is incompetent, a la Steve Phillips, or some other failed GMs. Not every move works out and no GM is perfect.
Cash is managing a wind-up of a particular phase of the business. He’s been saddled with a bad business plan and he’s undoing it orderly and he’s got a million things to simultaneously close down, fix and re-open. It’s not like the farm and the draft and the team on the field were good, but player development was bad. The whole system was cockeyed. I wouldn’t underestimate the scope of the reorg job Cash has on his plate. Maybe he needs help, maybe he’ll get it.
So, I’m not yet sure what to hold Cash accountable for in this mess. Frankly, I think it’s more equitable to grade the former managing partner, Big Stein, badly and fire him. But we all know we can’t.
well, one thing we all agree on and that this is not a good team.
it’s a bad team, and that’s why it’s losing.
i’m leaning towards sj’s frequent position that the team should be blown up and started over.
with all the contacts coming up this is the time to do it.
Good news. If Alex follows his usual trend, next year he will have a MVP Monster Season.
In A-rods defense, last years batting order started out with Giambi in the 5th spot until May remeber our start, so the line-up changed to either Hideki or Jorge protecting him in the 5th spot…Giambi is a liability for everything from RISP, offense, defense………..
“but you can’t give the organization a pass on the $1.5 billion or so they’ve dropped into the past 7 years which, one pennant aside, have resulted in increasingly disappointing seasons.”
i really could care less about how much theyve spent. you will never get me going on a discussion that includes salary. most people believe production is, or should be, directly in relation to what a player’s salary is, and i just dont.
there have been disappointing seasons, but i also dont blame Cashman for that. every year, each one of us here go into the season saying that there is no way this team cant win the AL East, and now every year, we’ve come out a little disappointed. that’s on the players for not producing the way they are supposed to when they get on the field.
just like SJ’s opinions on how the draft turned out, hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.
“Also, pitching prospects are chips that can be turned into position players (ie: the Nady trade).”
Those pitchers were pieces of the trade. Tabata was the centerpiece of that package. While Tabata’s stock may have fallen this year, he remained one of the Top 5 postion prospects in the Yankees organization at the time of the deal.
At present, the Yankees have no starting pitchers in the AA/AAA levels, besides Hughes, who could be the centerpiece of a trade for a player of Nady’s caliber.
When does Matsui & Damon’s contracts end ?
“He’s probley the greatest player were gonna see in our lifetime.”
Not even close, that guy is playing for Torre now is better, but everyone dislikes him because he doesn’t brown nose and has long hair.
“with all the contacts coming up this is the time to do it.”
i will agree with this. if there was ever a time to make sweeping changes, its now.
payroll coming off the books, prospects and young players who have value in the trade market, and cornerstone positions that need to be filled.
Giambi barely played in the 2nd half of the 07 team.
hmmmmmmmmm
Phelps Phan:
After 09.
Time for Arod to Leave ,
OVERALL,AS A COMPLETE PLAYER, you think Manny is better than A-Rod ?
What did Joe T see, that Joe G doesn’t…
The team doesn’t need to be blown up, as that implies a complete overhaul. There are some who need to go though.
Abreu and Giambi both need to go. Even though Abreu is hitting around .300, he is not very good at fielding and I see that declining. Giambi is done. He can’t hit or field.
Meachem should be replaced, but I doubt that will happen.
The Yankees need a good starting pitcher, CC – Burnett – Sheets, one of those, even with the injury possibility of two of them. I don’t see Pudge coming back unless Posada is done as a catcher. If that is the case then the Yankees have a big problem. Posada can’t play first base, he wouldn’t be a great DH.
This is going to be an interesting year during the off season for the Yankees.
“Unless you truly are that dumb.”
raymagnetic-
well gee ray, i think when i looked at the standings this morning the twins were ahead of the yankees and at 1/4 the salaries.
you really think the twins can’t play?
you really think arod can hit situationally?
and you’re calling someone else dumb?
okeydokey.
Look up the batting order for 07, Giambi barely played, or was way down in the order like 7th……………..
It’s hard to say Manny is more complete. A-Rod is 100 times better in the field, and at least tried to come to play everyday. I would still take a-rod over manny, just glad manny is in the national league now. But it doesnt seem to matter, because without manny, drew, varitek, they still put up 7.
I mean the Sox still have Kevin “Babe” Cash, Jed “Maris” Lowrie, and please please dont forget Coco Crisp and Ellsbury.
The 1998 Yankees should have come kick the crap out of the 2008 Yankees last night.
“there have been disappointing seasons, but i also dont blame Cashman for that.”
I don’t necessarily blame Cashman. He was a puppet til 2006. I don’t blame him for this anymore than I give him credit for any of the titles. As I said, I think the philosophical changes vis a vis building a roster are what the organization needs and a credit to Cashman.
I think A-Rod is trying too hard to carry the team this year, as he did last year. Last year it worked, this year, no so much. If he had a better batter behind him, like Nady or Matsui, maybe the results would be a little better.
“Not even close, that guy is playing for Torre now is better, but everyone dislikes him because he doesn’t brown nose and has long hair.”
Really? I thought nobody liked him because: a) he pushes old dudes to the ground when he doesn’t get his way, b) quits on his teammates when he doesn’t feel like playing, c) cares only about himself.
Thanks for setting me straight.
Funny, Cashman was a puppet and now he has control and worked to hire a puppet manager. Torre gave him too many demands apparently.
If Torre was still here, everybody would be calling for his head as usual. I wonder how he’s being treated in the LA papers as they seem to be under-performing as well.
Girardi has been sort of a disappointment but I’m sure he’ll be back unless the blame game gets out of control next month and Girardi trashes Hank/Cash in the press although that’s unlikely As Hank has already offered a pass.
I’m sort of hoping Hank keeps his word on holding Cash responsible for the Santana decision. Not saying we would be in a much better place had it happened but nobody would be crying over the loss of any of those 3 guys had they had the same season results out in Minny. We’d likely be saying it was the right move so far. Many other of Cash’s other decisions have backfired as well. I think a fresh set of ideas may be in order. A 200 million transition year is sort of a scandal IMO and I really am having a hard time seeing exactly what we’re transitioning to. It seems everybody wants them to go after the biggest FA’s again and that we need them for next year so exactly how is that different from 3-4 years ago.
The Arod bashing is almost getting as unbearable as Arod himself. I just think there’s not a lot to say that isn’t already obvious.
2 facts
1. He’s been a super disappointment and he sucks
2. He’s currently un-tradable so speculation is futile.
That’s it!
Season on the line with Ponson. I like Sid and wish him the best but it’s not lookin too good this morning.
i really don’t want to be ‘that guy’ and blame the loss last night on the home plate umpire, but i’m blaming last night on the home plate umpire.
he got things going in a bad direction from the start. there’s no excuse. he obviously felt a need to stick it to Andy, for some reason, leaving him pretty much handcuffed on the mound. the domino effect takes over from there and the integrity of the game becomes a joke. if i happened to have a non-baseball fan over watching, i would have been embarassed, not for my team, but the game itself.
automate the strike zone! you can’t give me one good reason not to.
“Funny, Cashman was a puppet and now he has control and worked to hire a puppet manager. Torre gave him too many demands apparently.”
I don’t think Girardi has done a great job, but he’s following an HOF manager into perhaps the most deamnding managing job in the game for a team that is very clearly undergoing a transition. Not ready to fire him or call him a puppet at this point.
Randy,
To said the Twins wouldn’t want A-Rod is dumb no matter how much you want to say he isn’t clutch or a good situational hitter. His career numbers say he’s one of the best ever in all situations.
randy l,
raymagnetic did not say the Twins can’t play. He said it’s ridiculous to think they would turn away a player of ARod’s caliber because they didn’t think he fit into their mold. If he had an affordable contract, no team would turn ARod away.
If you want a team full of players who can bunt, great, but I don’t want to see the Yankees drilling their players in bunting at the expense of just about anything else. Bunting is one of the worst strategies in baseball.
For all the griping about ARod’s low average with RISP, and his execrable performance yesterday, he still has a .400 OBP with RISP, and a .452 OBP with 2 outs and RISP. Getting on base is an aspect of situational hitting. ARod’s at bats with RISP have looked bad and I agree he is swinging at many bad pitches, but it’s absurd to say he doesn’t hit situationally when he’s shown, just as a Yankee, the ability to hit in any situation.
If you want to point a finger at anyone on the team for terrible situation hitting, point at Giambi. Now he really is a disgrace to the concept of intelligent hitting. As usual with ARod, things are getting blown out of proportion.
Give Arod a curtin call when he comes up unclutch again
“Now he really is a disgrace to the concept of intelligent hitting.”
I thought Cano held this title???
GIAMBI IS A HUGE PROBLEM ON THIS TEAM……………..start a petiton to bench him……………..
Trade Jeter please! He personifies Torre and the past! He is a terrible defensive SS and is declining offensively.
“Trade Jeter please! He personifies Torre and the past! He is a terrible defensive SS and is declining offensively”
BLASPHEMY !!!
Look at the stat’s from 07, and look at 131 game’s of 08, with the BIG G in the 5th hole. The 1st part of 07 he started in the 5th hole, thank god they changed it in May.
Fredo, Cano is the runner up. Giambi wins the title of dumbest hitter because opposing teams concede the entire left side of the infield to him, but he pulls the ball anyway.
I am taking the wife and kids to the slugfest tonight, but we’re a ticket short.
How much % above face value should I expect to pay a scalper?
Thanks
BLASPHEMY !!! LMAO…still I want Jeter gone! He’s had 8 years to bring a WS back to the Yankees and FAILED but he always gets a pass!
Jeter is doing fine. Stop trolling.
I think Giambi and Matsui need to swap places in the lineup, simply because Matsui is hitting and looking good, Giambi not so much. His OBP is a mere .309 for this month.
Remember one thing when you are calling for major changes. many of these guys are under high contracts. they can make changes at first, one OF, and pitching.
Unless they make some trades thats it. Good thing is, that’s really all they have to do.
As for coaches and managers, that’s overrated BS. Jim Leyland is no less the manager he was two seasons ago when he turned the Tigers around and Joe Maddon is no better now that the Rays are good.
Baseball is not football. Stop with the Girardi or Kevin Long knocks. If you want a scapegoat, it would be Cashman (I dont believe that), although I believe and Wang and Joba not gotten hurt the Yankees would be in much better shape. Thats not to mention Posada and Matsui.
Last year with out G-man in the line-up, we used Cairo, Menky, Duncan…maybe not the greatest hitter’s OK, but neither is Giambi and the other guys provided Defense..
1b has been an achillies heel for us for a while, since the G has come to NY…hopeful we rectify this in the off season, I don’t care who anymore, just bench him already…..
I hate everything Boston, from there snobbish media and fan base to Youk, Pedroia, and Papplebum!
Aside from that, SI had a playor ballot on who was the most dangerous hitter to pitch to in clutch spots. This was coming from the pitcher of course. I believe Jeter was in the top 4 with Manny, Big Papi, and Pujols.
Where was A-Rod you ask? Somewhere down the list tied for 10% of pitchers think he is a threat in clutch spots. This is coming from the pitchers in baseball!
Now all players voted and once again A-Rod was down the list for most dangerous hitters in big spots! It is not only us fans that see him as who he is. The players themselves don’t fare him.
When is enough, enough? Trade him for whatever, eat $50 million of his contract and build a more balanced team. He has a no trade clause but I’m sure the weak minded player that he is can be convinced.
Lol, yeah, lets blame Giambi for A-Rod’s woes. Giambi is the big reason. By the way who is batting behind Pujols? Who is batting behind Manny? The best players shouldn’t need a big bat behind them to rise in the clutch! He has never shown the ability as a Yankee aside from spurts last year in big spots that he is clutch! The facts do not lie! People are not booing A-Rod for any other reason folks!
i just wanna know what Girardi is thinking while hitting Giambi at the 5th spot this entire year.
The guy had one hot month, the entire year. Talk about loyal to a fault.
Phelps -
Technically, he had 2 hot months, but that was soooooooo long ago! Since the break, he’s been awful, but what he does is every once in a while throw in a monster homerun or a little hit to the opposite field, and that “just once” seems to fuel the feeling that “he’s coming around soon.”
My point about Torre, Bowa and Donnie Baseball is this:
You can have all the great baseball people you want, and those 3 guys are great baseball people. If the players don’t respond, there is nothing anybody can do about it but change the players.
The Yankees didn’t respond to Torre, et al for long stretches of the last 4 years and in every post-season series since the ’04 ALCS. Even he has gotten burned by the “all star at every position” crowd.
At some point, folks have to realize that you don’t build a major league team the way you do in fantasy baseball.
Players have to have roles. The lineup has to have chiefs AND indians. There has to be balance between youth and experience. You have to have depth.
At the same time, you have to have a farm system that can plug the holes (via their play or by trades) when things get rough.
This years Yankee team has very little of the above.
Stats, name players, all of that crap mean nothing when the real games take place.
No team in baseball has the financial advantages the Yankees. Not a single one. No team wastes more money than the Yankees. Its not even close and it affects this organization at every level. That’s not good.
The money does make a difference. You know how? It makes them cut corners in ways they should never cut corners in because there is so much top heavy waste in the organization. That’s why Cashman doesn’t have a lot of good baseball advisors around him. That’s why minor league instructors are leaving.
How does this organization lose a guy as valuable as Gil Patterson to the A’s? Money. Unforgivable. Especially, if you want to build your core around young pitching.
Gil Patterson now gets to work with Michael Inoa. It was supposed to happen that way. Except it was the Yankees, and not the A’s that were supposed to have it work out this way. Unbelievable.
“We (the Yankees) have to get younger and more athletic”. Its a very nice catch phrase. Its also true.
How do you accomplish that? They have ONE position player who even looks like he may be a player at AA and above.
One. That’s it.
Young pitching? Oh, you mean the guys that are either always on the DL or who can’t win games at the major league level? Yeah, young pitching. That’s workin’ out well so far isn’t it?
Its as if they make every decision in a panic and then are suprised when they don’t work out. As someone who has been in and around the game his whole life, I’m amazed at how off key they are in some of these areas.
YEARS of neglect to the farm system. Not all on Cashman, BTW. Its as if the Yankees just decided that they had a farm system in May of 2005 and now expect instant results. Not the way it works folks.
Get back to me in 2011 and let’s talk farm system. By then, if they don’t have another year where they whiff on their first 3 picks, the draft and Latin American signings should begin to yield the kind of quality and depth the system needs to be able to help the parent club.
That would be 6 years from the time the Yankees decided to re-invest in the farm system. That’s about the proper timeline in order to build farm system success.
That’s what neglecting the farm system from 1999-2004 has done to the organization. Its set them back years.
Its not a one or two player fix. They need massive change.
Finally, they have enough money coming off the books to begin making that change.
That begs the following questions:
1. Are they going to be dumb enough to tie themselves up with more long term deals on guys who only come to NY for the cash? Or, are they actually going to do their jobs and look for guys who CRAVE coming to NY and competing?
2. Who are going to be the architects of this rebuilding job? Cashman? Cashman and a team of advisors better than the one’s currently in place? A new GM?
All big questions that need to be answered before we have any idea of what the future holds.
At the major league level, only Mike Mussina, Johnny Damon and Mariano Rivera are having seasons even approaching career best numbers. Each of those guys are 35 and over.
That ain’t good folks.
George Steinbrenner has owned this team for 35 years. On the day he purchased it, when they were MUCH worse than they are now, he declared the mission statement to be, “We want to win the World Series every year”.
Unrealistic? Yes. However, with a mission statement like that, one thing has always been clear with the Yankees.
When things don’t go right, somebody takes the fall for it.
Its going to be interesting to see how Hal handles all of this.
It will give us a window into whether or not he can run this franchise.
Everybody is “great” running a sports franchise when things go well. Its when things don’t go well that we find out if that person has what it takes to succeed.
This off-season, we will find out if Hal has what it takes to run this franchise for the long haul.
Its he, and not Hank, that will decide the future course of the Yankees. I certainly hope he is up to the task because its going to be a very challenging one.
1. Yes, Manny is a better all-around player than A-Rod. He’s a MUCH better hitter; A-Rod hits meaningless bombs while Manny hits timely opposite-field doubles with runners on. His outfield defense is underrated. He plays the game with obvious enjoyment while A-Rod does his job like a robot.
2. Automating the strike zone is the worst thing that could possibly happen. Pitchers like Tom Glavine who live on the corners make their living by getting hitters to swing at borderline pitches. Pitchers aren’t machines; the psyche game involving pitcher, batter and ump is one of the things that makes baseball a pleasure to watch. Umps aren’t biased against teams, though they may develop grudges against individual batters. I watched the game last night. There were close calls on both sides. Whining about the strike zone is just that: whining.
BillyBall:
Check the batting order for 2007, tell me then Giambi isn’t a problem a huge problem. Check how many time’s he batter 5th, then look at the change in 07 and when it was made. Then look at the stats for 2008, 131 games with him as the 5th hitter, and they won’t/don’t move him….Granted I think A-rod is off, but he play’s defense…does the Big G, that play when COCO PUFFS scored from 2nd on an infield play was a disgrace……….
Here’s a thought (though I think it’s been expressed here before – almost EVERYTHING has been expressed here before
): Maybe ARod is not or should not be a clean-up hitter. He’s a good player. He gets on base, he runs well. Maybe he’d do better in a different spot in the order. Maybe not.
Ah, in any event, there really is no alternative, is there?
BillyBall:
Who is batting behind Ortiz? A guy who is going to get MVP votes, much as I despise his bald whiny existence. With all due respect the general rule really is that big bats do even better with protection because then the other team can’t pitch around them.
A-Rod? High maintenance freak even when he’s not getting divorced. People don’t make the general rules with a guy like that in mind.
BillyBall:
Behind Pujols: Rick Ankiel & Troy Glaus
Behind Manny: James Loney & Russel Martin
SJ44:
I agree they need alot of change, it’s going to be like a 2yr window, can we all be patient enough.
“Maybe ARod is not or should not be a clean-up hitter. He’s a good player. He gets on base, he runs well. Maybe he’d do better in a different spot in the order. Maybe not.”
this is something ive been thinking about, too. perhaps he’s just not best suited to be the clean-up hitter, no matter how legendary his numbers can turn out to be.
personally, i think you move ARod to the 3-hole next season, and import a big bat to hit 4th, protect ARod, and drive in runs. thats the move to be made, IMO.
TurnTwo:
I agree, I’m not going to mention any “who’s” don’t want any lecture’s..but bring in a big bat…………move him to 3…
So let’s see if I got this right…
It’s the home stretch, we don’t like A-Rod because he’s not “clutch” and we don’t like the manager because he’s dumb and has no fire. We need a big time starter…
Why does this sound so familiar?
“and import a big bat to hit 4th”
who ya’ got in mind ?
“Yes, Manny is a better all-around player than A-Rod. He’s a MUCH better hitter; A-Rod hits meaningless bombs while Manny hits timely opposite-field doubles with runners on.”
Yes. Every single one of Manny’s hits has been a game-winning RBI double, and each of ARod’s hits has been a bases-empty home run while down 10 runs. That is why ARod has 150 home runs and 150 RBI.
Please, explain to me what a “meaningless bomb” is. ARod has plenty of hits that have changed games but you don’t remember because they didn’t come with the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth against the Red Sox.
“His outfield defense is underrated.”
Please back this up in some way. You probably don’t care for defensive metrics, but every one I’ve ever seen says Manny is a terrible fielder.
“He plays the game with obvious enjoyment while A-Rod does his job like a robot.”
God, where to begin with this stupidity.
1. Even if this is true, why does it matter as to who is the better player?
2. Aren’t the biggest criticisms of Manny that he doesn’t take his job seriously, does crazy things, and this year became a cancer to his team?
3. What would you have ARod do differently? Pound his chest when he homers? Cry when he strikes out?
4. Isn’t the biggest criticism of ARod that he is messed up in the head, and should be more “robotic”?
Posts like this epitomize just how dumb most of the comments on this site are.
“personally, i think you move ARod to the 3-hole next season, and import a big bat to hit 4th, protect ARod, and drive in runs. thats the move to be made, IMO.”
OK, but if we agree that A-Rod would benefit from protection, why not leave him 4th? It’s all a crap shoot to some degree.
But, once the Yanks decide they are out of it (which may happen tonight) you may see someone else behind A-Rod and you may even see A-Rod moved up to 3rd. They’ll start experimenting with players who will be around next year at the expense of players who will be gone.
“who ya’ got in mind?”
someone good? dont really know who’s available yet.
you also dont know who is going to be moved from the current roster, and what positions will be available.
easiest thing to do is find a 1B to plug in, via trade or FA signing, and fill both spots defensively and offensively.
but its never that easy, and it wont be this offseason.
Not really sure where to begin. A win tonight and tomorrow and things are still very attainable. But, the performances by A-Rod and Giambi last night really tells the story of this team. They are not living/playing up to their paychecks.
Giambi is gone after the season – NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. And A-Rod isn’t worth $30 million – no one is! We were done with him when he opted out last October, just don’t know why they were so compelled to bring him back… and for 10 years!
I’m very disappointed, but… a win tonight and tomorrow and you never know…
With Abreu gone, I’d put Arod in the 3 hole next year.
If Matsui is back, I’d bat him 4th.
I think a Damon, Jeter, Arod, Matsui, Nady top 5 spots in the order will bring more balance than what they currently have right now.
That said, its still a game of pitching.
My seats are behind home plate and I saw that Reynolds was awful in the game.
That said, Andy has to pitch better than that. He’s a veteran pitcher, and you make adjustments as to what the HP umpire is calling. He couldn’t do it because he couldn’t locate. That’s not good.
The pitching on this team is really going to be the challenge in the off-season. They aren’t going to depend on innings and health challenged young guys again.
If they don’t sign CC, what’s Plan B? How will Wang come back from his injury? Pretty significant questions.
Just goes to show you that, at least right now, there are many more questions than answers about the 2009 Yankees.
“OK, but if we agree that A-Rod would benefit from protection, why not leave him 4th? It’s all a crap shoot to some degree.”
nah, im not arguing protection necessarily for ARod.
just saying you move him up in the lineup, maybe get him more ABs over the course of a year to take more advantage of his OBP and speed rather than rely on him to drive people in from the clean-up spot.
I just think this organization needs to rebuild. Fans won’t like it because most are impatient. but I think it’s necessary in the Yankees case. When you have all your players get old or happen to be FA and there are some prospects in your system not quite ready that’s when you need to rebuild.
Like SJ said that what happens when you neglect your farm system for so long and you sign older players to long term contracts.
But I will say even if they did have good prospects from 1999-2004 they likely would have not played for the Yankees. Back then it was all about winning now. The hell with the future. You had an owner who coveted other teams trophy’s and did everything in his power to get that trophy even if it meant possibly trading a top prospect.
pete – what position will you play? 1st base or Dh or homeplate ump joe west? have fun and remember it not october dont hit in doudle plays…
I think eithe rmove A-rod to 3, and import a big bat..or move Hideki to 5th spot and give the 3 hole to X…
Damon
Jeter
X
Arod
Hideki
Posada
Cano
CF
1b
“the coaches just said go up there and die like a man.”
Great line, randy. That made me laugh. Thanks. I do disagree with you though about Cashman. As SJ said, it takes more than three years to build an organization that had been decimated by neglect. Cashman has not just done a good job in that regard, it’s been phenomenal. Seriously, he has been the voice of the organization in doing things right. If he wasn’t here, believe it or not, things would be a lot worse. You want proof? If Cashman chooses to leave, he will be overrun with job offers. Other teams know the great work he’s done, and they would love to have him. And how many GMs get to write their own tickets like that. “Hmm. Should I stay with the biggest team in all of baseball? Or should I look for a peaceful situation, with a new challenge, somewhere else?” That almost never happens.
Of course you can quibble about a move here or there. I don’t agree with him 100 percent of the time.
But the Yankee organization was in horrendous shape in 2005, and since Cashman has been given some power (I say soem because I agree with those who say he NEVER would have given A Rod the 10-year deal, especially after he opted out), the process of rebuilding has been impressive. These thigns have to be viewed in large windows of time. It’s completely unrealistice to think someone could walk into a broken organization, snap his fingers, and suddenly the Yanks are the Angels plus double the resources. As SJ said, baseball doesn’t work that day.
BTW, great post, SJ.
Then you have to import a big bat, but you have 2 positions to look at…no a big bat will not come from the AAA teams in baseball. so you will have to spend some money…..there are 2 position to try and find this person…1B and CF…
I wasn’t going to go there as far as Manny being an all round better player than ARod but I’m glad somebody addressed it.
I’m not a big ARod fan but I would never say Manny is better all around. Not even close.
“I think a Damon, Jeter, Arod, Matsui, Nady top 5 spots in the order will bring more balance than what they currently have right now.”
totally agree.
CF is an interesting question. If you honestly believe that AJax is the future, then you need a short-term solution next year. Can you get away with a year of Damon in center? I think Damon can still help a team as a leadoff hitter, but I’m skeptical he can be an everyday CF. So what are the internal options? Gardner? Melky? I don’t think either of those guys should be starting in CF for a contending team. As I said, CF poses an interesting problem.
Pete, your hatred for Rodriguez is crazy at this point. Bashing a guy for his stats in under 75 at bats when his career numbers with RISP are far better? That is amateur stuff, you’re better than that. The team has had much bigger problems than Arod, who is still producing at a top 5 MLB level hitter, for you to focus on their best run producer having a bad night.
What’s interesting for me is that I’m not even a fan of his, but the fact that you can’t be objective as a professional sports writer is sorta turning me that way.
well a-rod in the fourt slot was great last season ! so whats the problem? its a head problem every year after a mvp season he stinks. look it up.
lets go 2009 yanks! under president Obama!
SJ44:
I know complaining about umps is frutile..but Andy after calling Molina out, and Joe coming out, wasn’t getting low or higher strike zone calls, he had to literally lay one in there..he did miss his spots on a few pitch’s but usually you adjust when the strike zone is established, last night I never say one established.
SJ
Honestly what is your opinion of Derek Jeter going forward?
He is a terrible fielding SS and only getting worse.
He offensive production is declining with a barely above .400 slugging this season down 12 percent from he career norm.
He can’t run so less stolen bases and more GDP.
What little home run power he had is almost gone.
Where does he fit in? You keep harping it’s on the players and if so Jeter shouldn’t continue to get a PASS!
“Then you have to import a big bat, but you have 2 positions to look at…no a big bat will not come from the AAA teams in baseball. so you will have to spend some money…..there are 2 position to try and find this person…1B and CF…”
I cant think of a power hitting CF available, and why would there be ?
Obviously Tex fits at 1B, but the money & years he wants wont. Especially if we get CC.
& i don’t know whats out there on the trade market, but it cant be anything that good.
Now warming up for the Yankees….the Fat Lady!
“CF is an interesting question. If you honestly believe that AJax is the future, then you need a short-term solution next year.”
Damon isnt an everyday CF anymore.
i would really look for a CF this offseason and make that decision with the idea that AJackson wont be a MLB CF. who that is? i dont know.
if JAckson continues to develop, you can slide him over to LF, which would time out perfectly with the expiring LF Damon/Matsui contracts.
My point is this! Yes Giambi sucks this year, and thankfully he will be a free agent. But these A-Rod supporters keep defending him regardless of the fatcs right there in front of there face. A-Rod is the most talented player in all the land, but he is not clutch in big spots. So to blame Giambi for A-Rod’s miserable ability to hit in the clutch is short sighted. Maybe we should bring in Manny to help hide A-Rod’s inconsistent at bats! That is a joke in itself. A-Rod has always had hitters behind him. Posada, Cano, Matsui, Nady, Giambi when he hits. That is a pretty strong cats of hitters that most teams cannot touch. This year a majority of them have been disappointments, but it seems every year A-Rod is a dissapointment in big spots. Enough with the excuses. It is what it is!
Earlier I posted a Survey on clutch hitter from SI. Major League pitchers voted on the players they fear the most in big spots. Manny, Big Papi, Pujols, and Jeter! That’s right Jeter, were in the top 4. A-Rod didn’t crack the top 10 folks. Why? This is coming from major league pitchers.
Next was a survey from pitchers and hitters of the most feared hitters in general. No A-Rod in the top 5. This is the best pure baseball player and his colleagues don’t seem to fear him in big spots! I didn’t make it up, it’s in SI!
“just saying you move him up in the lineup, maybe get him more ABs over the course of a year to take more advantage of his OBP and speed rather than rely on him to drive people in from the clean-up spot.”
I hear you and it makes sense.
But the down side is that with Damon, Jeter, A-Rod and Matsui they are front loading age and three guys with meaningful ’08 DL stints. Will that lineup gel and stay healthy and together for the majority of the year? Will it almost certainly get off to a slow start in the cold weather?
BTW, Tiexiera is a notoriously slow starter, so if they get him, be prepared for early disappointment.
Derek Jeter is going to be the SS for the next two years, the final 2 years of his contract.
That’s the way its going to be. Its not going to change and he’s not changing positions next year or the year after. He’s also not getting traded.
Its like with Arod, you can waste your time dreaming up trade scenarios. They aren’t happening.
The key, and its up to Girardi and Co. to use the off-season to figure it out is, how to get more out of them as they advance in age.
Perhaps it means giving them more rest (which would require a REAL bench for a change) next season. Perhaps, a change in the batting order.
Whatever it is, it won’t involve trades or position changes. They aren’t building a 1.2 billion dollar ballpark to have Jason Bartlett and Joe Crede play short and third base.
Both guys can still play. In fact, Jeter has played better defensively than he has the last 3 years.
The challenge though with both players is going to be how to have them maintain better consistency as they advance in age.
“i don’t know whats out there on the trade market, but it cant be anything that good.”
it cant be anything good? good players cant be traded?
“Where does he fit in? You keep harping it’s on the players and if so Jeter shouldn’t continue to get a PASS!”
When did SJ give Jeter a PASS?
Joe, I don’t think Pete’s attitude about A Rod is in any way inappropriate. There is widespread belief, even among Yankee fans (I’m one of them), that A Rod is a me-first player who doesn’t rise to the occasion when it counts most. His post-season numbers speak for themselves. Last night demonstrated more than just his inability to hit in the clutch, but his inability to adjust to the needs of a hitting situation.
You rely on your star to come up big when it counts most. A Rod isn’t that guy.
“In fact, Jeter has played better defensively than he has the last 3 years.”
Damning with feint praise….
“His career numbers say he’s one of the best ever in all situations.”
arod is especially good in those situations when you need a bathroom break.
if it’s at a clutch time, you know you’re not going to miss anything.
SJ44:
When did George come back from his ban, you say they starting neglecting the farm system in 99, it’s funny that’s about the time we made some horrible basbeball decision’s on FA signings..01,02,03,04….
CF may be a one year stop gap FA type of guy. I don’t think they will rush Jackson.
You could see a Mark Kotsay type of player in CF next year.
That’s ok.
Offensively, the challenge is to change the culture of the team. More contact, less free swingers, less “me” guys. More team guys.
You add a few of those guys to the lineup, while also hoping they can also defend well, you have a better lineup.
The only position change that Jeter should have is becoming manager. If he was the SS/manager of this team right now, they’d be playing much better. I’m not kidding. There’s nothing that Girardi does that Jeter couldn’t think up. I think the other players would be more enthusiastic with Derek Jeter making the calls.
Next year, Girardi should be the bench coach and Jeter should be a player/manager.
“Whatever it is, it won’t involve trades or position changes. They aren’t building a 1.2 billion dollar ballpark to have Jason Bartlett and Joe Crede play short and third base.”
i agree in the sense that you cant expect ARod to be happy about moving to a new position, again… and that JEter is the SS for the remainder of his cotnract.
but, wouldnt/shouldnt 1B be an option for ARod if the one guy you really want to target or could get is a young, stud 3B?
i guess it could make just as much sense for the young player to move to 1B, but if they are better defensively than ARod now, and then factor in reducing the wear and tear on ARod as he gets older thru that contract, i think that it should be on the table for the front office.
“it cant be anything good? good players cant be traded?”
Noooo, Matt Holiday’s available. I just dont see the Yanks giving up the minor league talent to get someone good. Plus there are teams more desperate to get that good player. Teams that have good expendable prospects.
SJ I think they need to develop a SS in the next 2 years. Which imo is doable. That’s when Jeter’s contract is up and I agree with you he’s not moving to another position in that 2 year time frame.
Outside of Carmen Angelini I don’t see any major league quality SS. Unless I’m over looking someone. Perhaps they need to draft or sign a IFA SS?
Great point, SJ. In fact, I think the Nady deal was as much about next year (or maybe even more) than this year, for the exact reason you said. He is the kind of high OBP, smart situational hitter they’ve lacked.
In fact, I’ve completely come around to your position on Cano. If another team would be willing to give up an impact player or top-tier prospect for him, I think you have to do it. It would almost be upgrade at this point to replace him with someone with less skill, but a higher OBP and better concentration.
As far as Arod is concerned, he’s the easy target. When he doesn’t play well, its, “he can’t play”. When he plays well its, “he’s supposed to do that. Look at all the money he is being paid”. He’s in a no win situation and there are Yankee fans who will hate him even if he went 5-5 last night.
Pettitte and Giambi, two guys making a combined 38 million this year, were awful last night. Except for Damon, the entire lineup did nothing. As it has been for much of the season.
The reality is, while its easy and conveinent to take shots today at Arod, he’s not the only guy at fault for this season.
Since he isn’t going anywhere, he’s going to have to be part of the solution as this team goes forward next year and in the years to come.
I’m not even going to entertain anything on Jeter going anywere or moving…
mitch-
i’m trying to keep my sense of humor with the yankee situation. but at the same time 55 years of watching the yankees tells me this is not a great time to be a yankee or yankee fan.
i think sj has the best approach on the blog as far as cashman and the yankees. he likes and respects him, but says he needs help.
i could live with that.
what i don’t want is for cashman to continue being the lone ranger in directing the future of the team.
“Noooo, Matt Holiday’s available. I just dont see the Yanks giving up the minor league talent to get someone good. Plus there are teams more desperate to get that good player. Teams that have good expendable prospects.”
maybe to get the right player, they are going to have to give up talent. you cant reshape the ballclub, and import grade-a type players by not overpaying a little sometimes. just has to make sense in terms of the player you are getting back, making sure they are either under contract, or under control for a couple years, etc.
took Hanley Ramirez to get Josh Beckett. that seemed to work out well.
i think the Nady/Marte trade was a good example of Cashman pulling the trigger like this.
2. Automating the strike zone is the worst thing that could possibly happen. Pitchers like Tom Glavine who live on the corners make their living by getting hitters to swing at borderline pitches. Pitchers aren’t machines; the psyche game involving pitcher, batter and ump is one of the things that makes baseball a pleasure to watch.
disagree. a strike is a strike. on the corner, or off the corner. how would strike zone automation change that. the ump has no right to be involved in this ‘psyche game’, as you refer to it. this is a game that should be between 2 teams. the umpire is a 3rd party that should go unnoticed as much as possible.
sorry, meant to use quotes or something on that first paragraph.
“Except for Damon, the entire lineup did nothing. As it has been for much of the season.”
That’s about as false as a statement can be.
Did you watch the game? I consider myself an A-Rod fan, but I’m sorry, if you watched the game you would have seen that everyone before A-Rod was continually attempting to set the table for him. That’s baseball. You try to set the table for your MVP cleanup hitter. They accomplished that with flying colors. Abreu was fighting and fighting for walks so he could get A-Rod to the plate in a situation to do damage. So was Jeter. They were doing it all night.
By your philosophy, Jeter and Abreu and Damon need to whip out those uppercut swings and swing for the fences every single time they come to the plate, because setting the table for A-Rod is doing “nothing”.
I’m sorry, if setting the table for your cleanup hitter is a bad thing, time for a new cleanup hitter.
TurnTwo:
A-rod to 1st, that is a very interesting thought…
The question re: Cano is simple for the Yankees.
Can he get back more in trade to help your team for the next 3 years than he can by staying with the team? If the answer is, “yes”, you trade him. If its, “no”, you don’t.
Untouchable? I don’t think, I KNOW he’s not untouchable.
That said, they won’t give him away.
Frankly, I think they not only have to look to trade him, they have to leak to the media in the off-season they are “actively” trying to trade him.
He loves playing in NY. Perhaps the thought that he may not be a Yankee during the off-season will force him to do the work needed to improve his game.
If he doesn’t care either way? That’s a sign that its time to move him.
He doesn’t need a coach/babysitter. He needs to grow up and accept more responsibility as an important member of this team. Something he has not done, despite everybody from Jeter to Arod, Cashman, Girardi, Bowa, etc talking to him about it this season.
As if they don’t have enough off-season questions, what to do with Cano is going to be one of the tough one’s for them to answer correctly.
SJ, you have an opinion which is interesting, but not conclusive.
Yes, the Yankees have underperformed this year. They’ve also been racked by injuries.
Some of it is Girardi’s fault, most of it is not.
Some of it is Cashman’s fault, most of it is not.
Some of it is the Steimbrenner’s fault, most of it is not.
Some of it is the player’s fault, most of it is not.
Would the Yankees be 5 games behind in the WC if they hadn’t been racked by injuries? NFW.
Yes, the Yankees have disappointed, but unless you can find a valid study telling me that players over a certain age don’t hit well with RISP OR that the current Yankee players have historically not hit well with RISP, I have to chalk it up to it being a perfect-storm type of season.
As to the Torre/Bowa issue, I think you’re partially wrong, because you insist that once the season starts, it’s all about the players. This is partially true, but also partially false.
It’s up to management to intelligently use players (i.e., sit down the Melky’s of the world when they’re not hitting).
It’s up to management to properly use the bullpen, so that one pitcher is not overused and others are underused (by and large, I think Girardi has been better at this than Torre).
It’s up to management to push and challenge players who are not responding, and in this regards, Bowa at least motivated one underachieving player (Cano) better than anybody on the current Yankees. This is reported, and the fact that you choose not to address it in your comments speaks ill of your ability to accept facts.
It’s up to management to do management things such as manning 3B efficiently, so that players score when they have a chance and aren’t caught at 3B or home when they don’t. Bowa, by all reports, was better at this than Meacham, and that’s DEFINITELY not on the players.
—
I’m not as concerned about the Yankees going forward, because I think they are in a fairly solid position, but like everyone else, need a little luck for things to go well.
As to Inoa, everything seems to indicate that Inoa and/or his minders decided to back-out of a deal with the Yankees. You may think the Yankees were fools in not signing him anyway, but that’s the Yanks institutional position, which was also applied to A-Rod (we won’t sign him once he backed out), and in regards which A-Rod had to grovel and eat a lot of crow.
—-
While A-Rod has been disappointing this season, he still has an OPS of 157, which is his 3rd best since he’s been to the Yankees (and which is pretty much in line with his Texas numbers – that 157 was 160 before last night’s game, and will probably end up around 160 by the end of the season).
A-Rod has disappointed, but unless you thought that he was going to have 2007 seasons every year (which I certainly didn’t), he’s still playing very well….
“For all the griping about ARod’s low average with RISP, and his execrable performance yesterday, he still has a .400 OBP with RISP, and a .452 OBP with 2 outs and RISP”
nothing in the above description says the runs matter.
all runs are not equal.
you know a clutch situation when you see it, and i rarely see arod deliver in those obvious clutch situations.
they should have an official scorer decide when it’s a clutch situation because runners in scoring position doesn’t define it at all. when it’s a clutch situation everyone in the ball park knows it. these situations are not presently measured.
if they were, arod would surely be an average player in those situations.
“A-rod to 1st, that is a very interesting thought…”
Interesting, yes. But does anyone really think that making him learn a new position is going to help A-Rod’s performance or fan-pleasing value?
And as for the ten year contract, there are ways out of that if and when the time comes. Not saying it will happen, just that it certainly can if both sides agree.
DFox:
I agree, but also get Giambi out of there, hell move X to 4th and Hideki to 5th.
murphydog:
9 more years at 1st, would be less wear and tear on him than 3rd.
“Umps aren’t biased against teams, though they may develop grudges against individual batters. ”
and pitchers
and this is okay to you ?
“I agree, but also get Giambi out of there, hell move X to 4th and Hideki to 5th.”
Definitely. Giambi and A-Rod are in the same boat. They continually get the table set for them and rarely come through. I’d love to see Nady or Matsui swapped for them.
I have always been an A-Road supporter and think he is a truly great player. He also has been a disaster in RISP situations this year, but he was great at it a year ago. You can actually tell when he’s trying to do too much and I think at least part of it can be traced to the hitters behind him.
I like him in the # 3 spot next year followed by Teixiera, Matsui, Nady and Posada. That’s just a bit of an improvement wouldn’t you think? Anyone who thinks pursuing Teixiera is a mistake is out of his mind.
As for CF, there’s no one out there, so I say go with Melky/Gardner in camp and see how they’re doing. Melky is an acceptable # 9 hitter, but his shortcomings were magnified this year because he was a # 7 hitter most of the time. His demotion might inspire a serious work ethic increase.
I was at the game DFox. Here is what I saw:
Damon making adjustments to Wakefield.
Jeter, unfortunately just a singles hitter these days, can’t hit the ball hard anymore.
His gap power is gone and he hits too many balls on the ground. Check out his spray charts this year and compare them to years past. Its not a pretty sight.
Bobby Abreu isn’t “setting up” Arod. This isn’t basketball. The Yankees hitting philosophy last night was not to, “set up Arod”. It never is. Its to work counts, get good pitches to hit, and hit them HARD somewhere.
How many guys on the team have consistently hit the ball HARD this year? Not many, Arod included.
“Frankly, I think they not only have to look to trade him, they have to leak to the media in the off-season they are “actively†trying to trade him.”
Consider that already done.
It’s no secret that the Yanks have needs to fill in order to have any shot at getting back to the WS next year. Cano is about the only player who is young, under contract and price controlled with upside that may come out more easily in a less pressured, smaller market environment. (Some pitchers can’t handle NY, e.g. Javy Vasquez, but do well elsewhere. Same is true of IFs.)
Other teams would take Cano and give up value, especially over the winter when his ’08 season at the plate is less of a fresh image. Everything looks new and green in the Spring.
If the Yanks need A-Rod to come thru every time, then this is a poorly constructed team. Which it has been for the past few years. Where are the grinders? The ’98 team had no superstars (although Mo would be one) – but they grinded thru every game, every at bat. It’s a team with too many clean up hitters or past clean up hitters.
So what if they some how get the Wild Card – does anyone really think they would beat the Angels in a series anyway?
Does anyone think we need new trainers ?
i mean EVERY YEAR everyones hurt. ahh!!!
ARod is an odd year performer. He’s been MVP 2003, 2005 and 2007. I predict 2009 will be an excellent year for him.
“9 more years at 1st, would be less wear and tear on him than 3rd.”
Physically maybe, but he is in good shape and works to stay that way, so preserving him at 1st is of only incremental value within the next three or 4 yeas IMO. The emotional effect of him learning a new position and making mistakes and getting booed and then trying too hard to make up for it at the plate would be a short term disaster, IMO.
I wonder if the Dodgers would trade us Loney and Kemp for AROD. I can’t watch this guy anymore.
“Both guys can still play. In fact, Jeter has played better defensively than he has the last 3 years.”
That may be true but that ground ball that Bay hit for an RBI single should have been fielded by any shortstop worth his salt. Jeter just looked painfully slow, and the combination of age and likely nagging injuries has taken its toll.
You’re right SJ, Jeter is not going anywhere and neither is A-Rod. But the team must get younger in other areas. Abreu and Giambi cannot be resigned, and quite frankly Pettitte’s performance has not warranted another year. He was beyond awful last night in his biggest start of the season.
If any of our aging pitchers are resigned, it should be Mussina – if he even wants to come back.
Folks, it’s time to realize that the Red Sox are light years better than the Yankees. The deficit is six games, it might as well be sixty. We’re not going to sniff the division for at least the next few years, not as long as we continue to sign players over 30 to long term contracts, and choose reload instead of rebuild.
This version of the Yankees is old, terrible defensively and bereft of any semblance of dominant staring pitching. The team is also as bad offensively as its been in the last 10 years.
The team needs a complete overhaul, but the front office will continue under the flawed assumption that the Yankees are only a starter away.
A-rod is not going anywhere. They will have to build around him. Bonds was terrible in the postseason for years and finally had a good one when they lost in the WS.
JR,
The injuries really aren’t relevent. Everybody in the division has had injuries this year.
That excuse, while relevent in some areas, is overused when it comes to the Yankees this year.
Look at the Red Sox lineup last night. They have been racked by injuries all season.
Its about having the right mix of guys and finding ways to win games. This team, for whatever reason, does not have that.
Its the culture of team. Good teams, even when they are racked by injuries, find ways to win games. Not so good teams? They complain about injuries, umpires, etc and find ways to lose games.
As far as the staff is concerned, Bowa himself will tell you his “influence” with Cano, while effective, is a bit overstated.
You can’t motivate players everyday to play this game. Its not football. You play 162 games in 180 days. If you don’t have guys who can push themselves, you are in trouble.
Yes, there are some days you have to push guys. However, when “some” becomes “often”, you have the wrong guys on your team.
It’s bad enough Giambi’s still on the team hitting at a ‘blistering’ .250 clip. Here’s the thing: Those who like Giambi look at his high on base percentage, but all the walks he draws with his good batter’s eye don’t amount to any RBIs. And if Matusi & Posada are both out (as they were for so long) and Cano’s slumping all season, there goes the next 3 guys in the order after Giambi. So for most of the season there’s been nobody swinging the bat (or swinging it well enough) to actually knock in the first 4 hitters when they’re getting on base. That’s been our problem all year … the first 4 guys hit a combined .300, then Giambi walks, homers or hits into the shift before we send 4 automatic outs to the plate.
There are games like yesterday’s game where it’s just flat-out on A-Rod to come up and he doesn’t. Still there’s been no real threat behind A-Rod when he does. A-Rod’s best stretch during the season came at the same time Giambi had his only semi-hot streak. It’s simple – If the guy (guys) behind him isn’t hitting or is an automatic out, the other team has nothing to lose if A-Rod walks or if they bean him. It’s no wonder he sees fewer decent pitches.
Now that he has them, I don’t know why Girardi doesn’t put Nady (or Matsui when he’s healthy) directly behind A-Rod in the lineup. Giambi’s not the .340-hitting MVP he was when they signed him, he’s just a dead spot in the middle of the order. A-Rod followed by Nady (and Matsui if he’s healthy) is more of a rally threat than A-Rod followed by Giambi. For me that lineup switch is a done deal.
“Time for Arod to Leave ,
OVERALL,AS A COMPLETE PLAYER, you think Manny is better than A-Rod ?”
I honestly think Manny is a victim of book being judged by it’s cover and to answer your question I will say, I would take Manny over Arod 10 out of 10 times if I was given the choice.
If you want to play the “he’s got baggage” card, I think we’ve seen Arod have more than his fair share of baggage in the past 4 years.
From a hitting perspective it’s a no brainer, Manny wins the contest.
Stat of the day: A-Rod 1 for 10 this season with the bases loaded
Injuries are definitely relevant, no matter what you think, in the sense that you may end up replacing a very valuable player with a less valuable player (think Molina for Posada or Betemit for A-Rod).
That doesn’t mean that teams won’t win without injured players (the Yanks HAVE won 70 games, a number of which have been won while having numerous injuries), but it will decrease the quality of the team.
Having said the former, I’m certainly not arguing the fact that the Yanks have been disappointing this season, but the thingk that MOST dissapoints me, over injuries et. al. is that the Yanks are lousy at hitting with RISP.
That has cost the Yankees precious games, and there’s no objetive reason why the Yanks aren’t hitting better with RISP. Because there’s no objective reason why the Yanks aren’t hitting better with RISP, I have to believe that there is a great degree of randomness in this Yankee season.
Phrased differently, if the Yankees did NOT have baserunners OR if Yankee batters were hitting exactly the same without RISP than with RISP, then it’d be clear that this is the Yanks skill level, and that’s that.
But the Yankees DO get a lot of baserunners, including in scoring positioin, AND they generally hit better WITHOUT RISP.
You seem to have decided to deal with this issue as a matter of good-teams-finding-a-way-to-win, but unless you know of any magic elixir which can change baseball players (not just Yankee hitters, but baseball players) into good hitters with RISP, then this is just random….
At least you’re admitting that Bowa DOES have an influence on Cano. It may be overstated, but believe me, that influence could well have won the Yanks a couple of games, both on offense and defense, in which case the season would be very different….
How can the best player in the game be so bad at times?
More “stats” of the Day:
Hanley Ramirez: 1-14 with the bases loaded this year and he’s now hitting .197 with RISP for the season.
He dropped a sure DP ball that cost the Marlins a win last night. I live in South Florida. Nobody down here is calling for his head or for him to be traded.
Great players have bad games. It happens to all of them.
You can cherrypick stats to make any argument you want when it comes to players.
Arod is having a bad year hitting with RISP. Giambi has been worse. Yet, because of Arod’s presence on the team, Giambi is “free” of columnist and talk show (translation: fan) criticism.
He’s A problem with this year’s team. He is far from being THE problem. Despite his poor game last night.
skip bayless – he is a complete flake. However, his take on arod, is 100% correct.
Turn Two -
I think a move like that with ARod at least warrants a test-run.
Sometimes a team can have all the pieces, but if they don’t know how to fit them altogether, in the end, all you have is pieces. (And putting them together the same way time after time after time and getting the same results doesn’t really work!)
Will we boo AROD tonight if he goes 4 for 4 with 2 home runs?
You act as if the Yankees are the only team that has suffered injuries this year. That’s not the case.
David Ortiz didn’t play for two months. Lowell has been on the DL twice this year. JD Drew is now hurt. Varitek is hitting .215. Dice-K missed a month. Beckett is hurting, Schilling hasn’t pitched all year.
Jacoby Ellsbury has been up and down. Julio Lugo, their starting SS? Hurt and a non-factor.
You don’t think that’s a significant hit for the Red Sox? Yet, as we talk today, they are in the playoffs and the Yankees are not.
Teams suffer injuries. It means other guys have to step up and find ways to win games.
Its undeniable that the injuries have hurt the Yankees. What’s hurt more is, nobody has stepped up.
Good teams have that happen. Not so good teams don’t have it happen.
The Red Sox even had one of their “young guns” (Buchholz) crumble the way the Yankees young guns have this season.
But, they continue to find ways to win games, don’t they?
It is about the culture of team and guys buying in that any contribution, even the small one’s, can help you win games.
I don’t see that same type of commitment from the Yankees. I think that’s as much of a reason why they don’t win games like last night as the injuries or anything else.
Injuries are apart of life..
fans forget us ppl call out of work for a common cold over 6 months..
This is their job and they get hurt and need to call out from time to time,
The yankees just lost heart and the drive to win and play hard till the end of the game..
Also getting tired of joe and his “we will get them tomorrow speech”
SJ:
You forgot one Boston injury.
Manny Ramirez – leaky brain pan (7-15 thru 7-30)
“From a hitting perspective it’s a no brainer, Manny wins the contest.”
How about from a “hitting the traveling secretary” perspective? Does Manny still make your team 10 out of 10 times?
The dynasty Yankees took on the personality of Paul O’Neil.
The current Yankees took on the personality of A-Rod.
SJ,
You fail to address the issue of RISP for the Yanks (even though you acknowledge that it happens for specific players, such as Hanley Ramirez).
You also set-up two strawmen: that I am acting like the Yanks are the only team that has suffered injuries AND imply that I’m saying that’s the MAIN (or ONLY) reason why the Yanks are disappointing.
That’s patently incorrect, as can be seen by previous e-mails.
However, to deny that injuries HAVE had an impact on the Yankee season is to be blind.
To go into a solliloquy about how good teams happen and others don’t is nice, but you still have not dealt with the randomness of the RISP issue.
One point that does need to be made is that Boston was almost certainly deeper than the Yanks this year, and that has helped them get over humps and injuries.
That doesn’t explain why the Rays are playing so over the head and why the Yankees are so disappointing with RISP.
Care to address why the Yankees are so disappointing with RISP?
Fredo,
Great point. That’s the kind of stuff that use to stop the Red Sox a few years ago. Now, it doesn’t.
Every team has injuries, trials and tribulations. Its how you get through them that determines your fate.
“a-rod to 1st”
are you guys imsane? or what maybe he should pitch because he sucks. dont overreact he is our 3rd baseman for the next 10 years!
randy l,
“nothing in the above description says the runs matter. all runs are not equal. you know a clutch situation when you see it, and i rarely see arod deliver in those obvious clutch situations.”
Here’s one of the main problems with ARod criticism: subjectivity. People who don’t like ARod will forget the many successful plate appearances he has in the vast majority of his at bats, and focus exclusively on certain at bats where “he didn’t come through.”
Fact is, this is baseball. Even the best players rarely come through in clutch situations, because they are trying to hit pitched baseballs. If ARod were a .300 hitter in clutch situations (defined however you like), he would still fail to get a hit (walks and HBPs notwithstanding) 70% of the time. Except no one would be able to criticize him for choking or whatever. Now he just fails to get a hit 75% of the time, and he’s a psychopath/bum/loser/me-first player.
Of course it’s undeniable that there have been times when ARod put the team on his back, but for some reason lots of people just love to forget about those times.
“they should have an official scorer decide when it’s a clutch situation because runners in scoring position doesn’t define it at all. when it’s a clutch situation everyone in the ball park knows it. these situations are not presently measured. if they were, arod would surely be an average player in those situations.”
Randy, there is a website called baseball-reference.com which tracks stats for various clutch situations, although it currently does not have a stat for “Clutch in Randy L’s mind.” Take a look. ARod’s lifetime stats are decidedly better than “average.”
You know what is really being lost in the midst of ARod’s and Giambi poor performance is some of the great effort we are seeing from other players…case in point Bobby Abreu is hitting .359 since the all-star break with a .433 OBP, those folks that don’t want to resign Abreu because he is too old or too expensive need to rethink the situation, Abreu is the kind of player the Yankees better keep!
They are poor with RISP because three of their best RBI producers (Cano, Arod, and Giambi) have been awful this year in those situations.
In other words, they haven’t stepped up when two of the Yankees better producers with RISP (Matsui and Posada) went down with injuries.
Overall, its also a poor situational hitting team. They don’t advance runners, hit SF’s, make productive outs, etc.
Why? Too many chiefs and not enough indians in the lineup. Too many guys taking “hero” swings, instead of putting the ball in play. That’s what happens when its a team full of all star (or former all star) players rather than a balanced lineup of guys who know their roles and play to them.
As I said, good teams have guys step up to contribute when injuries or ineffectiveness take place. Not so good teams do not.
Its really not that complicated.
You “knew” the Red Sox were going to be deeper than the Yankees this year? Did you also know that Casey would outperform Betemit? Pedroia would outperform Cano? Youkilis would be an MVP candidate? Jed Lowrie could contribute?
I think that’s revisionist history. Going into the season, everybody talked about the Yankees “great” bench.
Shelley Duncan was going to provide RH pop. Betemit was going to provide LH pop. Morgan Ensberg can “kill” lefties, Melky was going to have a big year, etc.
Instead, the Red Sox core of young players, and kids from the farm, have outperformed the Yankees young players and kids from the farm. Not exactly what the Yankees and others thought when the season began.
randy, sorry, I disappeared there for a while, but I wanted to say that I agree with what you wrote:
“i think sj has the best approach on the blog as far as cashman and the yankees. he likes and respects him, but says he needs help.
i could live with that.
what i don’t want is for cashman to continue being the lone ranger in directing the future of the team.”
LLIME –
I don’t think A-Rod’s personality has a negative effect on the team. Selective stats and some self-serving members of he press (M&M for example) has a negative effect no the fans perception of him, which leads you to believe things like that, but again … I seriously don’t think his personality is a negative element on this team. From what I’ve seen, he shows up, works hard, roots for his teammates and actuall isn’t the Pedro-esque prima donna he’s made out to be. Guys like Beckett, Manny, Mondesi, Sheffield … they have personalities that get in the way of the team.
Maybe someone here (Pete, anyone?) who’s actually been in the clubhouse can tell which perception is closer to the truth.
It’s reported that the Sox got Kotsay from the Braves (but you all probably knew that already)
SJ,
1. I disagree about it being too many chief and not enough indians.
The reason is simple – these are the very same guys who hit the crap out of the ball last year, and this year they have bad averages with RISP and worse BABIPs.
I’m fairly sure that the 2009 Yanks, and players on the Yanks which are on both the 2008 and 2009 team will be better with RISP.
2. You seem to think I meant Boston the ball club. I meant Boston the franchise.
Anybody who followed the possible Santana trade knew that the Yankees were top heavy in pitching prospects, but not in the field.
Boston’s farm system was (and still is) more balanced than the Yankees, and clearly to get through a season, you need a farm system that can help you plug the holes (in fact, I would think from your previous posts that this is something you would agree to).
BTW – Of the Players you mention, the only one that I had high hopes for was Melky. Shelly Duncan is a nice side story, but nothing to get worked up about. Betemit was not that good in 2007, and I was certainly enthralled about him. Ensberg was a flyer, and everybody knew that.
“It’s reported that the Sox got Kotsay from the Braves (but you all probably knew that already)”
Scuttlebut began on that last night, but I guess it’s confirmed now. Not sure what his role will be other than to occasionally spell Crisp/Ellsbury.
Today I gave away my tickets to tonight’s game and tomorrow’s game.
I can’t believe I just did it, but I can’t go anymore. I’ll go to the last game on the 21st and call it a year.
I have a laundry list of reasons why I can’t keep rooting for this team.
Giving Cano money before he earned it and sapping his desire.
The moron, and face it G.I. Joe is a moron, in the dugout who keeps putting the worst 5 hitter in baseball in the 5 hole every damn night.
The mental patient at 3b who decides to divorce his wife just as the season is starting and soon after he had another child with her and then goes in the tank mentally again when the team is relying on him more than in the past.
The GM who had a perennial Cy Young award winning lefty for the taking and refused to trade prospects who I knew back in November were not worth saving when you can get an ace lefty who is a gamer and wanted to be here.
The GM who for the past 5 years had been doing everything in his power to make sure Giambi wasn’t our 1b because he knew he wasn’t good enough to play everday in the field and now all of a sudden in the last year of this idiots contract, at age 38, the team decides he’s fit to be our full time 1b.
This is a team that is crashing to the cellar.
We have no prospects that can help.
The mere thought that free agents want to come here for anything other than money is ridiculous.
Why would you want to play here now if you’re a free agent?
To play with Jeter in his declining years and watch Arod make more money than you and fail in the clutch?
The dark ages are returning to the Bronx if they’re not here already.
The worst part about it is I can totally see Cashman coming back and re-signing most of the guys you all think he’s going to let walk.
When we whiff on CC the process will be complete.
We will have no #1 starter, outside of the injured Joba and who knows what happens with him.
Our “best” player has performance anxiety issues.
Our leader on the field looks to be turning into a 40-something player at 34.
Our “all star” 2b can’t hit above the 6 spot in the order or the pressure gets to him too.
This team is a mess and I don’t see any quick fix.
Cashman is the architect of this disaster. He had the money to find competent starters and get a good 1b alternative and keep Giambi where he belonged on the bench.
He’s a terrible evaluator of talent and the minute he said bringing back Andy at 16 million meant we didn’t need Johan at 17 million we all should have known the man was a fool.
Take off the pinstripe glasses. The prospects all suck, except for the good ones which are hurt.
It’s been fun for all these years and we were spoiled by the success started by Buck and Stick and developed further by Torre and Zim and the culture they created from the outset.
Now, we’re a punchless team with no fire in our eyes and no pride in the uniform.
Say what you want about Boston, but they have created a culture there that we used to have. They copied the model we set and they have a team and a farm system that seems to play with pride for being part of it all.
Our guys are worrying about which clubs to hit after game and which hotels they are going to vacation in on their off days.
We’re a bloated carcass and the early 90′s of Tartabull and Mel Hall are back.
After watching his AB last night I’d have to say it’s pressure and stupidity.
I mean Wakefield put 3 pitches middle to outside instead of going w/ it and driving it to RF or pass Pedroia he was trying to pull it to LF, again WHY ? This is a guy that forgets how good his tools is in tight spots, it’s like he aims for LF in tight spots, he pulls off on everything outside and takes that one pitch he really can pull. Has anyone told him w/ his ability to hit the ball hard that we would gladly take a blazing single up the middle w/ RISP or a LD into the RF gap w/ basesloaded or a blazing single pass the 2B hole, heck a sac fly to CF would have been better.
I just see him as a guy right now that doesn’t know the importance of just getting a hit, he must really think a single makes him look unclutch to especially to be pulling off on crap, I noticed it in Baltimore all the sudden the fans we’re cheering “Arod !, Arod !, Arod !” his hands muscled up and he pulled a slider on the outside corner to the 3B and legged out a hit, that was horrible hitting. A hit into RF would have been bettera LD to make the OF make a quick decision , but when he starts pulling off it just looks like stupid hitting.
I remember the Seattle Mariner Arod that nearly killed us, he had a lunge maybe that lunge made him a better hitter IDK but this guy that I saw last night wouldn’t be able to live in NY for the remainder of his contract. He just wouldn’t. And yes I’m still not big on Kevin Long, I wish he’d gotten his walking papers in June but they failed to address that, hopefully he too isn’t back next year.
Sign Manny,burnett,Sheets, Mark T. We want to win now not later!
Sub WE for I. And you don’t speak for all of us.
“Boston’s farm system was (and still is) more balanced than the Yankees, and clearly to get through a season, you need a farm system that can help you plug the holes (in fact, I would think from your previous posts that this is something you would agree to).”
This is true and a reflection of the 2-3 year lead that Boston has on the Yankees in this process. They seemed to recognize the need to build up their system a little sooner than the Yankees did. To Cashman’s credit, they’ve moved ahead in terms of pitching, but Boston is still doing well with position players. Not much in AAA beyond Bowden (who’s pitched well) because they tend to use Pawtucket as a taxi squad, but they have a couple nice position prospects now in AA, in particular a 20 yr old 1B who some believe will hit more than Matt LaPorta (the jewel of the Sabahtia package), who may be knocking on the door in late ’09 early ’10. Having the head start has helped, but as SJ suggested, the Yanks have a chance to be right there with them by 2010 or 2011.
On Arod: “Maybe he’s pressing a little bit, but I can’t speak for him,” first baseman Jason Giambi said.
You know you gotta give this S.O.B. some credit, who goes under the radar more than Giambi and his under .200 AVG w/ RISP and still gets away w/ throwing analyzations.
“The mental patient at 3b who decides to divorce his wife just as the season is starting and soon after he had another child with her and then goes in the tank mentally again when the team is relying on him more than in the past.”
I’m pretty sure the divorce thing was not HIS idea.
Kotsay will play for JD Drew, who will be out with the herniated disc in his back.
So we all agree? Abreu shouldn’t be back? At least not in the field. I have never heard so many “and it drops in front of the right fielder for a base hit” as I have this year.
I live in LA.. You guys have no clue, there is no pressure in the paper on Torre out here.. NY treats there teams different then anywhere else…
people want the Dodgers to win but if they don’t it is not a big deal. .SJ saying the sux young guys and bench have outperformed the yanks, may or may not be true but is a minor minor reason for the yankee situation.
the yankees are where they are because of there stars bad performances and it is that SIMPLE.. there 3 and 4 hitters are hitting a combined 225 or so with RISP….
Sj says to many chiefs and not enough indians, I call it trying to be a hero . Cano is the epitome of this, get on base, get a single, stop trying to get the big hit.. They just do not get it and how can that be possible? DO these guys have brains??
Arod is a enigma and he is not being traded, no team would ever take that insane contract. Jeter is also the SS for at least 2 years but hey let’s talk about the santana no trade, and trading jeter and arod for about 4 more years…
arod needs to see a shrink and the arod fan club needs to wake up to reality, he is not the best player in the game now or ever, he is a stat padder immensely talented very good player but falters in the clutch.. that is it, he is not evil or a bad guy just not even in Pujols league…..
“Kotsay will play for JD Drew, who will be out with the herniated disc in his back.”
I’d guess he’ll play some, but I think Ellsbury and Crisp will see the majority of AB’s in CF/RF. Think that was more about depth than upgrading…since he doesn’t really represent an upgrade.
it’s humorous that in the papers i read, all the beat writers played on “October form”.
typical of this bunch, they are a textbook example of groupthink.
The way the Yankees are covered by the beat writers, the papers might as well use a pool writer and reprint that in all the papers. it would save money without appreciably changing the quality of the Yankee-related content.
Colorado has placed Brian Fuenteson waivers… how about picking up a lefty reliever who can set-up Mo and eventually close?
Colorado has placed Brian Fuenteson waivers… how about picking up a lefty reliever who can set-up Mo and eventually close?
:see Marte:
g. love get a drink.. you are a little over the top. I will not respond to each of your points but get a grip.
the yankee farm system is in the best shape it has been in years and is only getting better.
girardi for whatever reason wants to bat giambi 5th maybe it is the lefty thing, that is only a part of why they are losing. Jeter is not as washed up as you keep on stating, I will argue his D is the best it has been in years….
they are not that far away. they need to dump some of the old crap and get a few reinforcements not that complicated but continue with the hyperbole that the yanks are now the nats or the tartabull yanks if that makes you feel more like a pirates fan go for it…
I’m so sick of hearing about Torre! Get over it he’s gone!!!!!!!!!!!! I have friends saying well Torre has the Dodgers going to the playoffs….DUH the National league sucks and there’s no pressure or expectations in LA!!!! And people can use the divorce excuse when it comes to Alex’s struggles all they want…I don’t buy it, if he really cared he’d be more careful with his affairs. He could care less about his divorce believe me! If Alex doesn’t put this team on his back the Yanks are toast. Please Girardi shake up the lineup bro…put Alex at three and Abreu at four and Nady at five, thanks Joe!
Fuentes is no better then Marte why would we need to get him?
Jason Bay > 10 * A-Rod
“Colorado has placed Brian Fuenteson waivers… how about picking up a lefty reliever who can set-up Mo and eventually close?”
I think the organization’s thoughts are that Melancon will close when Mo retires to Cooperstown. Further, doesn’t Marte fit the bill as a lefty reliever who can set up???
Chris Smith (the guy who slugs like Papi and Chokes up like Bonds) hit his first HR today. Still hitting .142 on the season though.
Brandon,
I wonder what the Mets would give up for Marte? It’s like a toin-coss for them. 50-50 chance of winning a game with a late lead.
The Dodgers are not making the playoff sportsfans..
They are below 500 in the NL west………
Yeah Torre is a genius ask Peter………
its sad watching yankees classics games and see how players like melky and jeter etc used to hit
I must say I’ve come to enjoy G. Love’s daily tantrums about how the mean ol stupid Yankees have taken all the fun out of watching baseball.
Is there anything funnier than reading a person whine about giving away tickets to a baseball game because they just don’t have the strength or wherewithal to go to these painfully depressing games?
I guess the world is going to stop spinning on its axis now because poor ol G. Love cant stomach going to see a Yankee baseball game anymore. LMAO
GLove:
Great post, thanks. I feel the exact same way and this morning was sick to my stomach thinking about it.
I predict that tomorrow the wheels come off on this blog.
Yankees season has been in serious condition for some time.
Last night it got downgraded to “grave”. The life support machines are glowing red. Last rites being administered…
Here comes the emergency surgeon.
Dr. Ponson, have you been into the ether again?
Please Sir Sid, give us one more day of faith and hope!
Burnett and Halladay are riding into town this weekend? Lets Roll !
Anybody been to the new Nationals park? What to eat & drink inside the park? I got tickets right on the field behind Manny.
it makes me sad to read about people giving away tickets, or leaving in the 4th inning. i’ve yet to go to a game this season. a few times i almost got tickets
Stuart,
I’d love to know what I said that’s not true.
Seriously, everything I wrote is based on fact from this season.
But that’s okay. Pooh pooh it and tell everyone we just need to change a couple of players. That’s what Cashman thinks and it’s why this team is in demise.
The fact is next year will basically be the same exact team outside of a new 1b.
There are no positional prospects coming up to help.
The pitching prospects all regressed and/or got injured.
And all of our already locked up to long term deals vets with no trade clauses players are getting older and less athletic.
If you think this off season we’re going to come away with CC, Texeira and Hanley Ramirez you’re sorely mistaken.
We’ll be lucky to get Oliver Perez and we’ll only get him because Boras will send him wherever the top dollar is. Perez doesn’t care where he pitches — he just wants money.
Could have had Johan for 17 million.
Instead, we’re going to give Oliver Perez 15-17 million to come suck here.
And CC is going end up costing 20 million per yer minimum. Makes Johan a bargain in my book.
G love:
I agree on the Santana issue, if you’re gonna rely on HR hitter’s with no fundamental ability, why wouldn’t you sign Santana, “if” they got him for Hughes, Kennedy, Cano.
We could have maybe had a better chance of persuading CC to come, damn Santana and CC as 1, 2..Wang 3, Joba 4…one could only imagine.
This team needs work, but it is nowhere near the hiedously assembled squads of the late 80s/early 90s.
The inevitiable defensive declines facing the left side of the infield in their mid 30s make Teixiera even more of a priority because his defense is so good. I have no problem seeing if I can get a conversation going about Cano and Kemp. They certainly have extra arms in the bullpen to try and acquire some young position talent.
The harshness of the ARod criticism is stunningly ignorant when people write they have NEVER seen him come through in the clutch. You don’t help your arguments with such inane lines.
I’m all for benching Giambi at this point. He cost the Yanks two more runs yesterday in the field and his ineptitude at the plate is part of why ARod presses so much. By the way what do Giambi and Michael Jackson have in common?
They both wear a glove on their left hand for no damn reason!
To answer the question about picking manny 10 out 10 time, after hitting the traveling secretary? I sure would.
Hitting the secretary takes balls, big ones. Besides Nady, Joba and Mo-this team aint got no balls. No pun intended of course.
I will watch this game today but seeing A-rod 4th and Giambi 5th is like going to the dentist and getting a root canal with no novacaine.
COL 88 thanks for that update, I hope Compton continues to progress.
Meanwhile it’s amazing but how can a guy that does this just forget how to do it.
mel I’ll take Daniel Murphy and F-Mart.
“Seriously, everything I wrote is based on fact from this season.”
opinions do not = facts
Not to beat a dead horse, but Torre would have benched Giambi, he did it LAST YEAR in MAY……..
Ray,
You’re so much better than every other emotional fan for this team because you are so sane, cold and composed. Bravo. Huzzah. Kiss yourself. You’re the best!
You’re nothing but a devil’s advocate jerk who sits on the blog all day just to pick fights with real fans.
The fact that I don’t want to go to anymore games this season is my decision. I don’t like watching a team play below their capabilities and fail when they are more talented than the other team they play.
Why would any fan keep going to see players play this poorly? Because they love the Yankees?
It’s past love at this point. These are some of the most pathetic performances we’ve seen in years and if you can find the silver lining in it all, kudos to you. I have a straight jacket for you just in your size.
This is a bad team, the organization is being poorly run and the players all play under so much pressure they can’t perform.
That’s not my fault — that’s not the media’s fault. It’s the players fault they can’t hack it and can’t even put up their usual numbers anymore.
But I’m sure you have a real good grip and handle on it all and you sit back in your easy chair and laugh at all of us who actually care enough to spend our hard earned money to support a team that quite frankly, doesn’t deserve a lot of the support they’ve gotten this year.
To me, you’re the problem. A holier than thou fan who mocks the fans who get upset. You think you’re better than anyone else here? Trust me, you’re not.
Defend this team and this organization. Tell me why we should all be encouraged by what we’re seeing. Diminish it and say it’s just a bad year and some bad contracts.
This garbage has been going on with this team for years, it’s just in the past we had enough to at least make it to the finish line.
Now we’ll be lucky to make it out of 4th place after this week.
You got to believe that we’d be a couple more wins ahead with Torre.
Girardi has made plenty of moves this year that effect the outcome of a game. Alot of it was learning on the job moves.
He treats every lefty like they’re sandy koufax. He seems to value the pitchers OPP BA above his own players BA against lefties or that pitcher. I’ll never get that.
A guy will start to heat up or be in the middle of a tear and he gives them a day off. Yet when they’re slumping, they’re out there every single day.
1-5 in the line up seem to be set in stone. Giambi has had no business batting 5th for months. He could have switched him with Abreu to try and get him going or put down in the lineup. He could of switched him with Matsui when he came back. It’s like he doesn’t even try to get guys going.
Then there are the the little things like failing to bunt in the bottom of the 9th, down a run, with a runner on first 0 outs and Melky at the plate. That has happened more than once this season and it was the same outcome. Double play! Who saw that coming?!?
Time for Arod to Leave:
So, hitting 60 year old man because you don’t get your way is an example of courage (balls)? Tell me, are you Bloods, Crips, MS 13?
Brett Marshall
3.0 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 4 K’s
And Congrats to Chris Smith 2 run HR in the 7th for his 1st pro HR.
Some thoughts –
1. Jason has had an abominable season. Take away that hot streak in late spring-early summer, and he has been terrible at the plate. He either hits a homer above the shift, which is the only way he gets RBIs, or strikes out, pops-up, or GIDP. And then there’s his fielding. I know they love him in the clubhouse, but he can’t be on the team next year. He’s killing them.
2. Alex’s problem is between his ears. And not his marital issues. He had problems last year, they were in the media, yet he still delivered big time. Kay on YES says that last year he had 30-something RBIs in the 8th and 9th innings; this year he has two. Last night was the epitome of it all. The Red Sox had to get 27 outs, and he provided 7 of them, including that 7th inning disaster of an AB.
Nothing has changed physically with him from last year, he definitely has the physical tools. Somehow, the Yanks need to get the right psychologist, somewhere, somebody, who can get this guy to RELAX in the clutch. They’re stuck with him for the next 9 years, they have to figure it out.
3. Cashman can’t continue being chief cook and bottle washer for the team. Their business has revenues in excess of what, a billion dollars a year. And not just Damon Oppenheimer, but more help to sort through every aspect of business necessary to put a better product on the field in the Bronx. I don’t know, maybe they have a budget dedicated for the back room, off the field stuff, but it has to be expanded. SJ44 talks about Gil Patterson leaving for the A’s; I was really surprised when they let him get away a few months ago. I still don’t understand how that happened. The same for their conditioning programs. And who knows what other stuff that I don’t even know about. But with the moneys at stake, the Yanks/ Steinbrenners can’t keep running things like a mom and pop operation. It wouldn’t be tolerated in any other line of business.
Alright, I have to go back to work.
G. Love, based on your thoughts on Cashman, I will remember not to hire you to run any organization that requires looking at one minute after right now.
The organizational development from 2005 to 2008 has been great, and since it takes years to undo the damage of a club that had organizationally reached rock bottom, I really believe the system will only get better.
And the idea that the Yanks should have given Santana that seven-year deal, even with his skills already declining, is the exact WIN NOW attitude that the Yanks adopted from 2001 to 2005 … and that landed them in the situation they are in right now.
IMO this is Cash’s last off-season chance, if he fails he should be in a cage match with Stone Cold Steve.
First off, in the off-season, which will begin earlier this year, Arod needs to get his personal affairs in order, and come back next year without all of the family problems. After his divorce, this guy should stay single, so it won’t matter who he’s with because he won’t be cheating on a wife somewhere with a kid.
I guess I dont understand the need for a guy like CC.
Who’s the White Sox ace?
Who’s the Twins ace?
Who’s the Angels ace?
Who’s the Red Sox ace? Beckett? Check his ERA.
My point is that these teams win because they have a collection of starters who are efficient ENOUGH. They go 6 innings and give some depth, keep runs down to a degree – give the team a chance.
The Yankees need THAT. Not a bloated contract for a lefty who will be leaving most of his bullets on a mound outside of Milwaukee. Think Sabathia will consistently have an ERA better than Moose’s is this year? I doubt it.
We need consistency. The Angels know that every given day their starter will most likely give a quality spin.
I understand the pitch limits now on Hughes and Joba for next year – that’s a problem. I just think that fundamentally, a stable of quality pitchers is better than an ace, a handful of young guns and a couple journeymen.
Say what you want about Torre, but I do not believe for one hot second that Giambi would still be batting 5th, let alone starting at 1b if he were the manager.
Our bullpen would be in shambles, but the obvious weak points in the lineup and defense would have been addressed, something Girardi can’t seem to bring himself to do.
They are having a bad year. It is not the apocolypse.
“Time for Arod to Leave
August 27th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
To answer the question about picking manny 10 out 10 time, after hitting the traveling secretary? I sure would.
Hitting the secretary takes balls, big ones. Besides Nady, Joba and Mo-this team aint got no balls. No pun intended of course.”
This post right here shows why you discredit anything and everything this poster has to say.
What type of moron thinks that hitting a 60+ old man takes any kind of courage?
G. Love, I think you misudnerstood ray’s post. I can’t speak for him or anyone else, but I’m very upset watching this sorry team. If I could snap my fingers and make players disappear, there would be three or four guys left in the starting nine.
I think what Ray and others are saying is that taking a wider, longer view puts this year in perspective. And, more importantly, the Yanks can’t win every single year. You can’t make moves to prop up a mediocre 2008 team at the expense of 2009 and beyond.
G Love,
Can’t blame you for not wanting to go to the stadium until the last series but just don’t disappear on us!
You provide quality griping and we’re going to need you in our upcoming darkest hour.
This blog gets absolutely filthy with crappy complainers and we need every guy in the field we can muster to keep it tolerable.
ARod Sucks … Giambi sucks … blah blah blah. Go tell it to your your mommies you infants!
Mitch:
How do you expect the Yanks to compete with the starting pitching they have.
Moose FA
Pettit FA
Ponson FA
Wang
Joba innings limit
Hughes hahaha
Kennedy hahaha
How do we lose to a lineup that includes Coco Crisp, Jeff Bailey (who I’ve never even heard of), Jed Lowry and the immortal Kevin Cash ? How ?
Mitch,
I respect your opinion, but how do you explain the colossal screw up in the draft this year and the fact that most minor league players in the Yankee system lost significant value this year.
I know Cahman doesn’t play for them, but perhaps he doesn’t know which players are for real and which ones he should sell high on.
The trades we could have made in Dec. with these prospects won’t exist this off season because of how poorly they have developed/played.
The minor league system took a step back in my opinion.
Outside of Austin Jackson, and who knows what he will really be yet, where is there a position player to come in and play so we don’t need to sign a bloated free agent?
I know you can’t develop them in 3 years. I’m not stupid.
But you use some of the umpteen minor league pitchers we’ve been stockpiling to go target positional players that can help now and in the future.
The Nady trade was a good step, but I feel it’s too little to late.
Maybe it’s the sign of things to come this off season, but are 100% confident that Cashman will know what players to get?
Random thoughts:
1. Matsui and Giambi should be flipped in the lineup.
2. I find it mildly amusing that Giambi continues to throw A-rod under the bus…and is still more popular.
3. I can’t believe that in this day and age the LPGA can get away with mandating that Korean players have to learn English.
4. The Big Artistotle had a TRO issued against him Friday. And nothing on the ESPN website 5 days later. Amazing. Lucky thing he’s not affiliated with the Yankees.
5. If you won a gold medal would you give it away? Who would you give it to? A dying kid? Your grandmother? Check out the Jason Kidd/Steve Winn’s wife story.
6. Stats are a funny thing. They don’t mean much in the postseason. Someone in the last thread was perplexed that Jeter’s postseason success is always heralded while Alex’s is not even though they have similar postseason stats. Two words. Context and results. The postseason is about moments, not numbers.
7. So how ’bout that strike zone?
Randy,
Regarding your post on clutch situations, must we quantify everything? As you said, we all know such a situation when we see one. Everyone in the ballpark knows. You don’t need to define it by numbers.
Case in point: Saves. There are garbage saves and pressure-cooker saves and everyone knows they’re not equal. You know a good reliever like Mariano or, dare I say it, Papelbon, by how he performs when the game is truly on the line. The statistic itself means little.
you guys forgot abt the 40 million dollar man.. CArl Pavono
G Love,
Where did Jason hit and where did he play under Torre? Please also take into account that we have to DH Matsui.
mel:
Most of the time Torre, after May 07, benched Giambi or let him hit 7th when playing DH.
mel –
I’m perfectly fine with the LPGA’s decision.
Not only from a golf etiquette standpoint, but also for the marketing help that association is desperate for – girls who can be spokepersons and rolemodels for the league.
Not terribly encouraging for young aspiring female golfers to follow an LPGA event, get to meet a player, and they can’t even converse unless through a caddy/interpreter. I think it’s sad, really.
What the LPGA should promote is to offer the training over a two-year period to international players once they complete q-school or other qualification.
This is my take on what’s going on w/ Alex
Arod ABs last night I’d have to say it’s pressure and stupidity.
I mean Wakefield put 3 pitches middle to outside instead of going w/ it and driving it to RF or pass Pedroia he was trying to pull it over the LF wall, again WHY ? This is a guy that forgets how good his tools are in tight spots, it’s like he aims for LF in tight spots automatically, he pulls off on everything outside and usually takes that one pitch he really can pull. Has anyone told him w/ his ability to hit the ball hard that we would gladly take a blazing single up the middle w/ RISP like this or a LD into the RF gap w/ the basesloaded or a blazing single pass the 2B hole, heck a sac fly to CF would have been better.
I just see him as a guy right now that doesn’t know the importance of just getting a hit, Manny and Papi know that, he must really think IMO a single makes him look unclutch especially to be pulling off on crap, I noticed it in Baltimore all the sudden the fans we’re cheering “Arod !, Arod !, Arod !†his hands muscled up and he pulled a slider on the outside corner to the 3B and legged out a hit, that was horrible hitting. A hit into RF would have been better, a LD to make the OF make a quick decision would have been better, but when he starts pulling off it just looks like stupid hitting.
I remember the Seattle Mariner Arod that nearly killed us, he had a lunge maybe that lunge made him a better hitter because he’d keep his hands back, IDK but this guy that I saw last night wouldn’t be able to live in NY for the remainder of his contract. He just wouldn’t. The importance of a hit and then watching see it’s one thing when Micheal Kay saids 30 RBI last year and then 2 this yr. w/ late inning situations last night it looked like he wanted 6 and wouldn’t settle for 1, this is the type of crap I can’t stand, just a hit STOP GETTING ALL GREEDY IN THESE SITUATIONS, yes we would love a grandslam but we know it’s not available all the time, it’s not like every clutch hit has to be a HR Alex
“3. I can’t believe that in this day and age the LPGA can get away with mandating that Korean players have to learn English.”
i heard it was in reference to the pro-ams that corporate sponsors pay to participate in. they found that donors who were giving money to play with the professional golfers were growing frustrated, because they were paying money to play with someone they couldnt understand or talk to, so they were becoming less apt to donate/pay to play again.
G-Love
First off, I also think its going to be tough to make the playoffs. There have been some mistakes (and of course many injuries) leading up to this situation. I don’t think I’m not being a good fan by saying so. Just being realistic regarding this season, and also when I look forward to next season.
But you need to turn in your Yankee fan card immediately. Just throw it down the crapper and flush away. Do yourself a favor and throw all your Yanks stuff down the chute too. You’re sounding so lame and negative as a fan, it’s embarrassing. You just don’t get it.
“They are having a bad year. It is not the apocolypse.”
post of the day!
G. Love -
So instead of losing games because there are no runs to begin with, they’d be losing games because the bullpen was giving up too many leads.
6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
At the beginning the of this season, no one could have predicted the extent to which the offense would fail. No one. And the cast of characters, or the main characters anyway, haven’t changed. Matsui and Posada injuries have hurt, but my point is they were all going to be the same age even going back to April. There were a handful of people seemed aware that they could slow down due to that age factor, but again, I doubt anyone expected this much of a slow-down. Most people expected that ARod would not have a year like last years, but I think most everyone assumed that after last season he would have kicked most of his demons out and been able to put together a really good year. And, not for nothin’ but Cynthia filed for divorce, not ARod and the baby was born before she decided to file. No one knows what’s going on behind the scenes (thank heavens) there.
Losing Wang was a huge thing, as well losing Chamberlain after that.
The only thing I will definitely hang my hat on as being inexcusable is continuing to keep Giambi in the 5 hole.
Anyway, it’s no use to cry over spilt milk. They have 30 games or so left and if they make the most of it, hurray, if not, well, that’s that. And the off-season hot stove will burn very hot this year.
Doreen:
I kinda dis-agree this offense started off the same last year with Giambi in the 5th spot, Torre made a line-up move in May. Then the offense got better.
Pitching wise I totally agree.
Timothy,
Thanks. I am perplexed at the Giambi thing, but I try not to think about it too hard.
David Cone’s Labrum,
Still wrong. The United States is a veritable melting pot where we don’t even have an official language. The ladies should be encouraged to learn and speak language, but not threatened with their tour cards. Can’t stand the language myself because it hurts my ears but it blows my mind. Just like the deaf little league kid who’s dad couldn’t be in the dugout because they thought he’d be giving signals. Just a little common sense.
For $13 I’ll be a Macadamia Nut
You can discredit me all you want, I will not take offense.
Certainly think it was uncalled for, but you have to admit, it takes balls to do that. Just ask Pedro.
“Unless Girardi can bring some fire to this team he ought to be fired. The only thing he’s done since he’s been here is ban candy from the clubhouse.”
LOL!
Mel— Giambi should be tossed from the lineup. Let him pinch hit, but I’d be more content with Betemit, Nady, Sheley Duncan, Juan Miranda or Carmen Miranda out there
The A-Rod/Manny debate if kinda funny. Manny is the slightly better offensive player for his career (OPS 1.000 versus .968) but that’s offset somewhat by ARod having 281 SB. Defensively Manny is better than many people realize, but an average LF versus a Gold Glove SS and top five defensive 3B isn’t even close.
It’s a valid point that you don’t have to have an ace, # 1 starter to win, it it’s a nice thing to have. CC Sabathia has had a better ERA than Mussina in each of the last five years and he’s just 28. If I’m the wealthiest team in baseball I sign him, period!
On more thing on the best free agents.
Teixiera and Sabathia will probably combine to make about $ 40 million next year. Giambi and Pavano combined to cost the Yanks $ 40 million this year (including ’09 buyouts).
and this is still being debated?
And Cano’s thumb is now giving him pain now
“Not at all,” Cano said, when asked if his thumb still bothered him. But at its peak, the pain “was really bad,” he said. “I had to swing way out in front to not get jammed [and worsen the pain],” he said.
Great
Turn Two,
I heard this, too. And I’m not a feminist at all. Wonder if they prefer the Paula Creamers and the Natalie Gulbises. Although, it’s kind of ironic that Sorenstam is Swedish, but not very hot.
G Love: unfortunately, I think you’ve pretty much nailed it. I don’t think being a fan means being one of the stepford wives. You can be a fan and still see the reality of the situation.
There were mistakes made – passing on Santana, until proven otherwise, was a huge one. And there are no position players in the minors ready to help. And ARod is . . . ARod. And on and on.
What has this team shown that would lead a fan to believe it likely that things will get better next year? Hughes and Kennedy in the lineup were a failed experiment – Hughes, because he got hurt. Kennedy because he’s not ready (and may never be). Joba was great, but now he’s hurt, and won’t get to pitch all the innings we needed him to so that he can start in the rotation next spring. Andy is, unfortunately, showing his age. We don’t know if Mussina wants to come back (imagine thinking back in April that that would be a consideration!?)
All of these things need to be addressed in the offseason – and this is not to mention the position players (anybody got a first baseman?) and the novel idea of having an actual bench.
“I’m perfectly fine with the LPGA’s decision.
Not only from a golf etiquette standpoint, but also for the marketing help that association is desperate for – girls who can be spokepersons and rolemodels for the league.”
Nothing personal to the poster of this remark, but Golf etiquette? Golf etiquette kept blacks off the greens in private clubs for a long time and The Gentleman’s Agreement kept blacks out of baseball for a long time. Call it what you will, but it’s the same thing.
Interesting what Tiger Woods would say about this. My guess is he’ll be oddly silent.
This is what happens when you start trying to favor one group over another, in sports, life, anything. Sooner or later one group’s favorite people come into conflict with another group’s favorite people and then you have this. It’s amusing watching special groups fight over who is more special.
1) As for being spokespersons, why can’t the LPGA seek to create millions of spokespersons for equal treatment, using golf as a universal language, regardless of national origin or language, instead of creating junior Stepford Wives who can rake in the dough from donors and corporate sponsors?
2) How many of these LPGA folks would apply an “English only” rule in school or government? Answer: Zero. Why is this different?
3) That’s why I don’t like special rules for special groups. Let’s have the same rules for everybody and mean it. Sermon over.
86w183:
I agree it fills to needed desperately needed holes, but here come the wrath..
86,
I know. I called for his removal a long time ago. Cut him, pay him, and let him throw a big going away party at the G-mansion.
Manny: 1 WS MVP; A-Rod 0
Manny: 2 WS wins; A-Rod 0
Manny: 4 WS apps; A-Rod 0.
Ansky,
What don’t I get?
You want to use injuries as an excuse? Give me a break.
We have a better offensive lineup with the exception of no Posada than we had at the beginning of the year.
We started the season with Melky and essentially replaced him with a superior player in Nady.
This was the plan for this team. This was supposed to be the offense.
Yes, the pitching is hurt and decimated, but it’s been good enough to win games.
The bullpen has definitely been good enough to win games.
We’re losing with the team that was assembled to be counted on this off season on the field.
The only players exceeding/meeting offensive expectations are Damon and Nady.
I’m a fan of the team and always have been, but I’m allowed to be critical when players play below their potential and find ways to lose.
We’ve seen glimpses of this from this team over the years, but it’s never gotten as problematic as this year because a lot has gone wrong this year.
A lot has gone wrong with the Red Sox and the Rays too and they still win.
Why can’t we? We have more of offensive regulars in the lineup than both of those teams and ours can’t perform.
The Rays are winning with Aybar, Hinske and Baldelli.
We can’t win with Arod, Giambi, Jeter, Matsui, Damon, Abreu, Cano, Pudge and Nady?
I have a hard time accepting that as a fan and I know I’m not alone.
I’ll keep my pinstripe card and my Yankee gear. I earned it back in the late 80′s when I used to cut high school to go to day game because I could get a close seat to the field and see Mattingly hit.
Those teams didn’t win either, but they weren’t 1/2 as talented as this current crop of underachievers.
Because they wear a Yankee cap I’m supposed to let them slide?
That’s not being a fan, that’s being a groupie.
hey if anyone is giving up tickets let ‘em. i have no problem taking a free yankee ticket for my 1st bronx game lol
I applaud the LPGA. You want to make money over here? The you have to learn to communicate with the sponsors, fans and media over here.
I think it’s disgraceful when foreign ballplayers (like Matsui) come over here to make millions of US dollars but show such disdain for the country and the fans by not learning even a small amount of English. Give ‘em two years and if they don’t pass a proficiency exam let ‘em get paid in Yen, or Pesos or whatever.
“Teixiera and Sabathia will probably combine to make about $ 40 million next year. Giambi and Pavano combined to cost the Yanks $ 40 million this year (including ‘09 buyouts).
and this is still being debated?”
well, fans here think that the yankees payroll is too high as it is, and they need to trim payroll.
why fans care about how much money players make, i have no clue. i think they argue it hurts flexibility, as if the yankees dont have money to spend if they really want to.
i know Hal Steinbrenner and Cashman are trying to pull in the reigns on the payroll, but…
is this team beter next year with CC and Tex on the team? yeah.
how about in 3 years? yes.
5 years? probably.
but Tex is overrated, and CC is fat. nevermind.
I still cant believe Girardi pinch hit Pudge for Molina last night. Molina has actually been hitting pretty well, and i saw Pudge live, he is NOTHING! I’m tired of our stars living off of what they did before. Welcome to 2008, where A-Rod cant hit with people on, where Giambi cant hit with people on, where Damon is forced back in CF, where Posada is out for the year, pitching is hurt (although not the reason we suck).
In making whatever changes need to be made, it’s important to remember not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Don’t over-react and don’t overdo.
As far as not having seen anything this year that would make you think Hughes/Kennedy will be of any help next year, I would say that there was nothing in the past that would have made anyone think they would have been as ineffective as they were (and certainly Hughes’ injury didn’t help, either). You can say you knew they weren’t ready, that you knew they’d have some difficulties. But you can’t say you knew that they’d have zero wins between them and an ungodly ERA. So, you just have to be careful when you judge this season. Even I, a person some of you might think is a rah-rah cheerleader “stepford” type (though if you read ALL my posts, you’ll know that I’m more nuanced than that), knew Hughes and Kennedy would have their share of ups and downs – but I thought there’d be at least one “up” and few “downs.” Even I don’t think Giambi is going to turn anything around. And even I didn’t expect ARod to duplicate his 2007, or Posada, either, for that matter.
But I did expect the overall performance of the team to be good enough to keep the Yankees deep in the mix for the playoffs. And while mathematically they are still in the mix, and in my rah-rah cheerleader stepford way I hold out hope for a turn-around, the best you can really say is that they are peripherally in the mix for the wild card, and perhaps the best that we, as Yankees fans, can hope for is that the Red Sox are overtaken by anyone from the AL Central.
murphydog:
“Golf Etiquette”: Imagine being Natalie Gulbis, trying to compete yet still abiding by the etiquette (note: I did NOT say “ethics”) of golf…
Natalie: “Nice Shot”
Opponent: “Kow Mig Pa Tang” (huh, what?)
Natalie: “Who’s Away?”
Opponent: “Ming Na Puket Ha” (again, huh?)
I think if I were Natalie I’d be frustrated to hell and back.
This isn’t Jeter teaching Matsui US slang. It’s one opponent trying to converse with another in a language that is central to the sport of golf and competition.
G. Love,
Yes, what we really need on this site is more of your vapid, kneejerk, mindless comments about your hatred of the team and everyone involved with it.
We really need your first-rate analysis about how Cashman is a cowardly GM who is afraid to make a big trade, right before he brought us one of the team’s best hitters in Nady and a HOF catcher.
We really need you to peer into Cashman’s mind and tell us how sure you are that we’re going to see Igawa take Joba’s spot in the rotation because Cashman is just so obsessed with his Japanese project.
Oh yeah, we also need more comments about how ARod is crazy. Because we don’t see enough of that on this site.
Thanks for all your help in making this site what it is.
Maybe we will end in last place the next 10 years like Tampa and finally make use of all our number 1 draft picks.
Okay. I won’t give you the link. It’s borderline pornographic, but if you want to do an interesting sociology study do a search for The 50 Hottest Female Golfers (hot clicks). A quick perusal showed Grace Park and Michelle Wie make the list, but no Annika.
David,
I live in a place where I hear snippets of Korean everywhere I go. So I call BS on your lingo. That sounds like you lifted it from a Thai menu.
mel – I did – have one here in my office
I have a feeling that this will be no place for optimists or fans who aren’t here to complain. I was reading last night’s posts when I got up today and found one that (sarcastically it would seem) asked where all the optimists had gone.
I tell you where I had gone and why. I had already said I was leaving for the night and hoped for a win today. The grousing and complaining and vitriol that you can find on a day that the Yankees win is there in triplicate when they don’t. So the purpose of an optimist sticking around and saying anything optimistic would be exactly what? So the nasty crew can flagellate us even more than they do during games when the Yankees are winning? I have often thought that people who are genuinely bitter by nature are going to be that way no matter the cirumstances. Watching this blog has definitely comfirmed that for me. So if we who are optimistic get sniped at for being optimistic (contrarily I don’t think we beg you to be optimists but to merely let us think the way we do) when the Yankees are winning, what in heavens name are we in for at this point in the season with what has been happening, and what are we in for if things get worse?
It will get to the point that the forum is overrun with nothing but negativity and will necessarily make anyone who doesn’t feel the same way afraid to even speak. I notice that in Yankee wins, of late, there aren’t very many posts – in Yankee losses, the posts are nonstop. That of course doesn’t bode well for those of us who want to share encouragement or any optimism we still might hold.
I’m sure that there will be at least some who will celebrate my absence, and that’s okay; but I know that I won’t stick around to become a whipping post for the disgruntled just because I don’t share the same opinion. If it looks like this place will be nothing more than a safe harbor for people to annihilate everything Yankee and anyone who doesn’t drink that same kool aid, I will just head to more stable ground.
I know I’m going to plastered for this but oh well..
I will always support the Yanks threw thick and thin…but I will also view my opinion..
The signing of A-rod the best in the game today, to me equats to the signing of Whifield, sorry Winnfield the best in the game at that time.. great number’s when it didn’t matter………….
David Cone,
HaHa! I’m good.
Go the most current thread for something really fun.
I would love to be optomistic, if they would change the line-up, 131 games in and no change with the same results.
I don’t even care if the change didn’t work at least they tried something different.
Tim, I don’t disagree with changing the lineup. I think it would be a very sane thing to do. Torre batted Arod 8th at one point. I am someone who is definitely for shaking up a lineup, but then you get complaints here that the players wanted to have stability and people here get upset that there hasn’t been a stable lineup.
trisha:
I understand, but geesh even Torre benched Jason, as a fan I just don’t understand why they keep trying the same thing.
They started off 07 with the exact same line-up, in May Torre benched Jason, used him some later but he batted 7th as DH.
How do we lose to a lineup that includes Coco Crisp, Jeff Bailey (who I’ve never even heard of), Jed Lowry and the immortal Kevin Cash ? How ?
It’s simply allowed to happen like many situations this year. Nothing is done to prevent it.
A group content to languish in mediocrity and lacking the wherewithal to rise to the occasion.
G Love
Not my fault you’ve been an insufferable idiot since the 80′s. If you get stuck on the misery, just become a Cubs fan.
Even with the pitching woe’s everyone talks about, the guys have done a good enough job to have like 8-10 more wins. Changing the line-up is really the only option, that IMO you could do with out any trade’s, or personnel moves..
I am far from the arbiter of all things “fan.” Some people are more positive by nature, and some are more negative – just like in life. Personally, I don’t see a lot to be optimistic about, with respect to this team, at this moment. If that makes me a whiner, or a “bad fan” or whatever, that’s fine. The team is not mathematically eliminated, and, truth be told, I’ll watch them even if (when) they are. But what I see from this team, this year, day after day, doesn’t give me much reason for optimism. I really don’t want to rain on anyone else’s parade. Frankly, I’d welcome a ray of sunshine that someone else is clinging to.
Brandon, Cano’s thumb was hurt back in July against Boston, after being jammed on an inside fastball. He’s been healthy for a few weeks, now.
Now, for all of those whining about Cano’s horrible season, he hit .151 in April and about .310 since 1 May. Seems to me that 375 at bats is a Hell of a lot more relevent than 106 in April.
I wish they would turn this around and Trisha could slam me around the till next year, but they need to change something in the offense and we all know..that the 5 hole is killing us daily…not even mention defense from that guy.. filder choice and Coco scored from 2nd base…
“How do we lose to a lineup that includes Coco Crisp, Jeff Bailey (who I’ve never even heard of), Jed Lowry and the immortal Kevin Cash ? How ? ”
Gene, I could feel much “better” about trying to deal with that if only the umpire hadn’t intervened. Seriously that was about the worst umpiring I have seen at least this season. And it was extremely one sided. Of course I didn’t feel a whole lot better when someone posted that the umpire was from Massachusetts!
Ellen – I think we’re afraid to even put it out there at this point because we’ll be asked to take off our pinstriped glasses, etc. I don’t mean by you, but you know this place can be fierce when people are upset.
I don’t really have much good to add but to say that I just live by the mathematical elimination formula and try to remain hopeful in the meantime. I can tell you what worries me though, even if the Yankees someone found some magic and made it into the playoffs. When you go limping in, you usually come limping out.
G Love
Just listen to yourself … are you enjoying this? Do people often tell you you jump to dramatic conclusions? It sounds like they should be. When its going good, do you enjoy it less than you enjoy focusing on the downside now?
trisha:
I don’t care I’d rather limp in, then not make it at all.
Then at least we turned it around.
Jeremy,
At least I’m not afraid to take shots at the players and the organization instead of sitting here while the floodwaters rise and scream “all is well!”.
All is not well. The team is a mess. The manager makes moronic decisions and the GM’s off season plan blew up in his face.
I guess you want a blog where everyone gives each other backrubs and talks about how wonderful things are in the Bronx.
I’d rather go to a place where fans can call it like they see it and not be afraid to say what they feel or think.
Let me know when you start your Yankee Kool Aid blog so I can avoid it.
Meanwhile, I’ll come here and post what I want, most of which I feel and many others feel is valid criticism of a ream that looks horrible right now.
Yesterday, I was hopeful they would show up and sweeep. I believed they had it in them.
After last night’s performance, coupled with this entire season, they will be lucky to finish ahead of Toronto.
If a 4th place finish makes you happy and you can find positives in that, God bless you.
And as for suffering Ansky, get a clue. This isn’t suffering. This is anger at a team that is capable of much more than they are currently doing.
If you can’t understand that, tell me where to send the check for your lobotomy.
Tim, the last thing I would want to do is slam you around. I would be thrilled to be able to say “Tim, check it out!” Plum out of answers, disheartened when the offense sputters, pissed blind at last night’s umpiring – I wish I could take that bum out myself!, and knowing that my wishing ain’t going to make it so in terms of a change in the lineup.
I will say this though. We couldn’t be more between a rock and a hard place with Johnny Damon. We desperately need him in there to get things started, but he is scary in center. You don’t sit Nady, Abreu, or Matsui. That’s a wicked conundrum.
If the Yankees can’t do more than win 2 of the next 5 home games, we should see a lot of Gardner and Christian in September. They might as well pitch Ian Kennedy too, as much as it sickens me. Phil Hughes should get a few starts also. And Cody Ransom should play first the lion’s share of games. We already know what Giambi gives us (or, more accurately, fails to deliver).
Trisha:
I know you wouldn’t, but I would take if they were able to change it.
I don’t know maybe give Cody a chance at 1st, move Hideki up to 5th spot put Cody 8th/9th
1. DFox is right when he says that in last night’s game the table-setters were doing their jobs, but there was nobody cleaning up behind them. As someone earlier pointed out, players have their roles and over all the team has the best chance of winning if they fulfill those roles. It would be nice if those guys also did the other things that SJ wants, but no one can do everything and the guys at the front of the lineup did what guys in those spots are supposed to do.
2. Rodriguez on an average day is a wonderful slugger, but he’s a nervous wreck in high-pressure situations, and is only an average third baseman. We’re better with him than without him but he isn’t the best baseball player in the known universe and the sooner his fanboys stop screeching that he is the sooner his critics will relax a bit.
3. Girardi can’t play for them but as manager he has to take responsibility for the culture of the team. At SJ points out, the culture of the team is a weakness at present. Starting now, Girardi has at most two years left to change it — maybe only one.
4. This year’s novices (management, ownership, coaches, baby pitchers, etc.) won’t be so raw next year. We’ll be better able to see how many of their problems are due to inexperience and how many due to incompetence. With luck a lot of it is down to inexperience and they’ll look significantly more competent in ’09.
5. Someone suggested Jeter for manager. He’s said he doesn’t want to manage, he wants to own. He and Posada are planning to put together an ownership group after they retire. Presumably they’re paying attention to the growing pains of new owners being enacted in front of their faces.
5. Nice blog early in the day when people are exchanging ideas about baseball but must be unbearable to actually camp here during games … skimming last night’s game thread, for example — hundreds of posts about umps???? Watching even an ugly game is more fun.
Trisha:
You know very well I was in support of Gardner, but now it would be wrong to put him out there and think offensively he would contribute, he’s been on the bench for like 10 day’s and I’m sure would need an adjustment time to get back some offense…Johnny has to play we need his offense, but Jason is a logical move…
Trisha;
Yeah the ump last night, damn, even in the 8th I was unsure of his strike zone…
Glove Lover, you say they at least you’re willing to take shots at the players and organization…but, the trouble is that while you’re taking your shots (whining)at anything moving, you’re shooting the wrong targets. I get the feeling that you’re a lifetime whiner. Now, you’ve turned yourself into the “Tragic Martyr”. You should be on the side of the Abar insurgents in Iraq. You’d be perfect for the role.
“Gene, I could feel much “better†about trying to deal with that if only the umpire hadn’t intervened. Seriously that was about the worst umpiring I have seen at least this season. And it was extremely one sided. Of course I didn’t feel a whole lot better when someone posted that the umpire was from Massachusetts!”
good posts trish. i didn’t read the game thread, but i’m guessing most of the umpire talk was in that thread. literally the worst strike zone i’ve seen this year. it takes away from the integrity of the game.
They should just shut Arod down for the season. What a joke.