The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

Today in The Journal News

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 28, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees fell to the Red Sox again. Hank Steinbrenner had some harsh words but Joe Girardi said it wasn’t the end of the world. No, just the end of the season.

Dustin Pedroia had the big shot for Boston. Jason Bay also did his part for the Red Sox. Kevin Devaney has ths story.

Now it’s up to Mike Mussina as the Yankees try and avoid a sweep. Kevin also has that story.

Hank vowed there will be changes in 2009. This notebook also has updates on Pudge Rodriguez, Mark Kotsay, Jason Giambi and Darrell Rasner.


Sox-Yanks at 1:05 today. Back in a bit with the lineups and blogging all afternoon long.





122 Responses to “Today in The Journal News”

  1. Phelps Phan August 28th, 2008 at 8:21 am

    Now that were all but eliminated, i really want moose to get his 1st 20 win season, Just one more accomplishment for the future HOF.

  2. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. August 28th, 2008 at 8:23 am

    I feel like I’m in the middle of a bad dream that I just can’t wake up from. I really detest that feeling. Unfortunately the more things spiral out of control, the more I fear it’s going to be with me. The real downside to being a passionate fan.

  3. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. August 28th, 2008 at 8:24 am

    I too want that for Moose. Unfortunately he might have to pitch like Cy Young and hope the pen holds up to get it done. It is obvious that you can’t count on the offense.

  4. jennifer August 28th, 2008 at 8:33 am

    The Yankees lost their starting catcher for most of the season, name one team that is on the way to the playoffs that lost their catcher for the ENTIRE season.

    The Yankees are on their way to scoring 200 less runs than last year!

    The Yankees have scored 3 runs or less in almost 60 games!!

    The least amount of runs they scored in the Joe Torre era was 804 runs.

    They’ve only scored 638 runs this year!!!

    What manager could have done better?

  5. Timothy Clougher August 28th, 2008 at 8:33 am

    Today’s line-up:

    Damon CF
    Jeter SS
    Abreu RF
    A-rod 3rd
    Giambi 1b
    X-man LF
    Hideki DH
    Cano 2nd
    Molina C


  6. Timothy Clougher August 28th, 2008 at 8:36 am


    Torre could have and many other’s, because they would have moved Giambi out of the 5th hole.

    I said this before look at 2007 line-ups, check it you can google it, same line-up last year until May when Joe T benched Giambi, and the offense took off. He used Giambi some after may as a DH in the 7th spot.

  7. in the shadows August 28th, 2008 at 8:38 am

    Damon CF
    Jeter SS
    Abreu RF
    A-rod 3rd
    Giambi 1b ( because Girardi is a stubborn @$$ ! )
    X-man LF
    Hideki DH
    Cano 2nd
    Molina C
    From today….( the only stat that I will be watching for the rest of the year ) Jeter needs 15 hits over the last 14 games at the Stadium to pass Gehrig for most hits all time AT Yankee Stadium….

    “Derek Jeter went 1-for-4 and has 2,504 hits. That’s 14 behind Babe Ruth for second on the all-time Yankee list. Lou Gehrig is first with 2,721.

    Jeter has 1,255 hits at the Stadium. That’s 14 short of Gehrig’s all-time record with 14 games left.”
    My bet is that we finish in 4th place….over and OUT ! :-(

  8. SJ44 August 28th, 2008 at 8:50 am

    No Torre couldn’t have done any better.

    The problem with all this revisionist history with Torre is that its full of holes.

    Do you really think the season changes by taking Giambi out of the 5 hole?

    I mean really, think a little bit.

    Carl Pavano, Sidney Ponson and Darrel Rasner make up 3/5th of your rotation. Do you think that’s a playoff rotation?

    If Torre is such a “genius”, how do you explain 4-13 in their last 17 post-season games?

    How do you explain this same group has had trouble hitting good pitching for 3 years? Don’t believe me? Take a look at the splits for the post-season the last 3 years and their record against top pitchers? Its not pretty.

    How do you explain the Dodgers right now? Where is that final kick? They can’t get out of their own way.

    There is no magic pixie dust Torre, or any other manager, can use to make old players play young again.

    This isn’t fantasy baseball. You can change the lineup all you want. If you don’t change the PLAYERS, its not going to change.

    The season didn’t go down the tubes because of Girardi. It went down the tubes because of injuries and ineffectiveness across the board by most of the roster.

    The ineffectiveness, with relative few exceptions (Damon, Moose and Joba) gripped the entire team this year.

    When that happens, and it happened to the Sox in 2006, there is only one thing to do. Fix it.

    That’s their challenge in the off-season.

  9. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 8:51 am

    I agree that Giambi should be moved down in the order, but Torre had a Matsui who could play left field, and therefore could use Giambi as a DH.

    Actually, it’s kind of laughable that Giambi has ANYPLACE in the lineup with the way his production has lagged in the last 2 months. But he’s the only one on the team who can play first base (passably, anyway) who at least offers the threat of offense, if not the real deal.

    If the Yankees re-sign him, I will be severely disappointed. Even if you grant that this was a particularly off year for him, he’s not going to get that much better – not enough to warrant his taking a spot on the roster.

    I’ve also been an ardent Abreu supporter, but even I am being soured on his tentative outfield play. He has a great arm. And I know a lot of you really, really hate that he seems to be afraid of walls, but what bothers me is his lack of communication with the CF. Even if it’s not all his fault, you add it up, and it’s unsettling. I won’t be too upset if he’s retained, but I won’t be as upset as I thought I’d be if he is not.

    I am a lot sadder this morning than I thought I’d be. Sad enough so even I’m thinking maybe they do need to re-think Cashman as GM. But frankly I’m most disappointed in the offense on this team and the fact that there has been no vocal leader. I know Jeter “leads by example,” and that works when everything is running smoothly, but sometimes you just need more agitation.

    After Joba went down, as much as I have fought the feeling, I just knew it would be too much for this team to overcome. It should not have been, but I could literally feel the air being sucked out of Yankeedom. Because at that point, everyone knew the Yankees were down to 2 pitchers. And while you can win with 3 pitchers, 3 of 5 is good numbers, you can’t win with 2. And with the way the offense sputtered all season, you couldn’t even count on those 2 wins.

    Ah, it’s all just words anyway. Wouldn’t it be nice if……well, at least they go down with some fight – one last hurrah, if you will, to avoid 4th place.

    And one last thing – let’s go Twins! Or in the alternative, let’s go Chisox!

  10. Wang IS Taiwan August 28th, 2008 at 8:53 am

    A manager is there to not only encourage his players, but give them a chance to do their best. Girardi never helped his hitters. Granted, he was better with the bullpen than Torre, but JG deserves some blame for the offense stalling over and over again.

    Girardi should have quit being an arse long ago with his crazy lineups, penchant for sitting hot players and going with his almighty lefties/righties crap. Some guys can flat out hit, regardless of what arm the pitcher is using to throw the ball. DUH. He stuck with his current lineup only after his players asked him to STOP and then, he still wouldn’t admit that Giambi isn’t fit to hit 5th in any lineup.

    Just dumb.

    I wouldn’t fire him, but I think he definitely has to shoulder some of the blame for the lack of offense from this year’s group.

    My other big beef with Girardi — not sitting the lolly-gagging Cano long ago. Maybe that would have made some impact on his lazy attitude.

  11. Bryan (Yankees fan) August 28th, 2008 at 8:53 am

    What a sorry disgrace for a baseball team

  12. Phelps Phan August 28th, 2008 at 8:54 am

    You think next year Moose & Petitte would still want Molina to catch for them ?

    & if so, where does that leave Posada ?

  13. Bryan (Yankees fan) August 28th, 2008 at 8:54 am

    Pete you made an appearance on Nom@@$ again… nice picture

  14. Bryan (Yankees fan) August 28th, 2008 at 8:57 am

    Even if the Yankees bring in CC (which they better do) this wrath of injuries and ineffectiveness by the young starters means that Mussina and Pettite NEED to be back… at lower salaries obviously

    Kennedy and Hughes still aren’t ready and neither them or Joba can throw 200 innings next year so the Yankees need pitching depth to keep the Ponson’s, Rasners, and Pavanos of the world away from the mound at all costs

  15. Phelps Phan August 28th, 2008 at 8:59 am

    Hey SJ,

    do you remember what the sox did that off-season in 06′?

  16. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 8:59 am

    You know, I seriously hope they have a GM candidate in mind (or two or three) because I don’t think it’s a slam-dunk that Cashman even chooses to come back.

    SJ44 -

    I’m in total agreement with you that there have been signs of the offense’s demise over the course of the last probably 3 seasons. They have NOT hit good pitchers all that well even in the regular season. But at least they use to be able to wear some of them down with good at-bats. This year they can’t, or at least they don’t, even do that.

    And Torre was NOT able to pull the rabbit out of the hat in the post-season. I loved Torre because he was so able to negotiate being a big-time, big-team manager in a big city. But I think he was on autopilot himself toward the end, and I use the midge game as an example of that. I would be willing to bet he was somewhat relieved that the Yankees contract offer to him was one he could sympathetically refuse. It certainly was one he could have accepted as a challenge – but I think he’d had enough. This year would not have gone better with Torre, because he’d already given what he’d given, and because if they’d gotten off to as poor a start as they did, he would have been gone by the All-Star break.

  17. Fran August 28th, 2008 at 9:00 am

    It’s sad to see what a mediocre team the Yanks have become this year. Injuries are certainly a part of it, but even with the injuries the Yanks have still put out a formidable line-up and they can’t get the job done.

    I think that Giambi and Abreu need to go. I also don’t think that the Yanks should give Pettitte a new contract. For a “big game second half pitcher” Pettitte has been very erratic.

    I don’t think Girardi should go, but I think that they need to look at his coaching staff.

    And as for Cashman, maybe it would be better to get a new GM and look at things from a new perspective. Cashman staked his job this year on Hughes, Kennedy and Joba and aside from Joba it was a bad move.

  18. Wang IS Taiwan August 28th, 2008 at 9:01 am

    I’m with Phelps — all I want for the remainder of the season is for the guys to rally around Moose and help him get his 20th this year.

    My big fear is that we’re going to see a lot of dead weight returning next year. Not Giambi — that would be shocking, but maybe Abreu. ‘Twill be v. interesting.

    Fingers crossed we trade IPK before the season starts. There’s one pitcher I never want to see pitch again in the pinstripes. I want hungry guys.

    Actually, I wouldn’t mind seeing Cashman move on, either. Our farm system — though it may be better than before — still sucks. Where are the position players we need to call up to replace the dinosaurs on the field?

  19. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. August 28th, 2008 at 9:02 am

    Doreen, really nicely said. I think I agree with all that you’ve said there. I also hate that “feeling sadder than I thought I would” feeling.

    Interestingly, losing to the Sux has become the least of it for me. I don’t feel that surge of whatever about either beating the Sux or not beating them. After all they’re not the division leader either and they’ve had their own share of miseries this season. And while I don’t want it to happen, getting swept by the Sux, while not pleasant, wouldn’t do me in either. I guess that I’ve been feeling numb for a while and maybe all of this season has finally caught up with me. While I will always be there to hope, I think at this point it would be hoping for a miracle. I hate to agree with all of the posters who have said it but this team has no heart and soul. Or if it does, it is deeply buried.


  20. Vrsce August 28th, 2008 at 9:03 am

    Bryan (Yankees fan)

    CC wants o go to the Giants, Hughes may be ok, IPK is not.

    The yankees need an entire overhaul.

  21. nemo August 28th, 2008 at 9:04 am

    At this point, I don’t care how the Yankees do for the rest of the season. I just hope Moose does well. I had tickets to today’s game (5 rows back, between home plate and 3rd base), but couldn’t go cause of work. But in all honesty, I don’t even want to go. I have tickets to tomorrow nights came, and I really have no desire to go. I just feel like I owe it to Yankee Stadium. Not even the team. The inanimate structure.

    While I want Moose to do GREAT from here out, the Sox sweeping us might be another serious wake-up call for this management. The more things go wrong this season, the better chance that we have for them to actually fix the problems we have.

    And am I the only one who would rather see Texiera signed at 1B over CC? I think the money wasted on CC isn’t worth it. I think people are just over-reacting to the decimation of a pitching staff we’ve had this year. If we bring Moose back (I’d rather have him than Petitte) and get a decent 4/5 started, we can scrap together someone else. We’ve needed a solid 1B since Tino left years ago, and I think that would be money better spent.

    I’m so sick of having $150+ plus payrolls, whether we win or not.

  22. nemo August 28th, 2008 at 9:08 am

    The only people I want to return next year, are honestly the people who deserve it (I leave out the young kids, because they’re not really there NOW):

    Moose – 1 year contract

    Abreu – 1 year contract (maybe)

    Send everyone else away. Please.

  23. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 9:11 am

    I sure hope the Yankees have a candidate or two in mind for the GM spot, because I’m thinking it’s not a slam dunk that Cashman will even want to come back.

    Fran, I agree that Girardi will stay, but that his coaching staff will be revamped a little. I think Eiland gets another shot, but everyone else is questionable.

    I also hope that free agents out there don’t view the Yankees as finished, because none of them will come here. They also need to be very, very choosy. Unfortunately, there are going to be some untenable contracts given, and though that’s what’s gotten the Yankees into this position in the first place, they’re going to have to give in on at least one.

    I originally thought they’d go after both CC and Teixeira. I’ve revised my thinking. Teixeira, as good as he is now, well, 7 to 10 years from now, what will he be bringing to the table? And as the Yankees I hope have learned from the Giambi contract, they will be crippled when it comes to roster flexibility in the future. They already have ARod for that long.

    Of course you never know how things will turn out, but the long-term contract that Mussina was given has turned out to be one of the better situations. CC is not the same type of pitcher as Moose, though, so it might be a gamble. But because the Yankees are aggressively trying to address the development of pitchers in-house (not speaking to success or failure of that right now), it might be a gamble worth taking. At the tail end of CC’s contract, he’d be a #4 or #5 pitcher. That’d be okay, I think.

    (I can’t believe I’ve entered the post-season what-to-do phase. I’d managed to stay out of that till now. :lol: )

  24. Phelps Phan August 28th, 2008 at 9:11 am

    “And am I the only one who would rather see Texiera signed at 1B over CC?”

    Yup, pretty much

  25. Lew August 28th, 2008 at 9:13 am

    The trade of Farnsworth for I-Rod has turned out to be a total dud. When did all those runs score yesterday? Who used to pitch the 8th inning? And, to top it off, Molina is the better catcher. Cashman has done many good trades, but not this one.

  26. Bryan (Yankees fan) August 28th, 2008 at 9:14 am


    I know they need an overhaul but they also need pitching depth and besides Joba the young guys cannot be trusted again next year

    The Yankees need flexibility and Pettite and Mussina provide that since they would both probably get 1 year deals

    Salaries for pitchers are ridiculous even medicore bum get at least 4 yrs 40M

  27. black yankee August 28th, 2008 at 9:15 am

    Really surprised at Girardis post game comments. They sound like a broken record. He seems like he refuses to knock any of his players, and he doesnt get into saying anything about anyone not playing up to their potential. Thats fine that he is looking out for his guys, but his players are not looking out for him. I dont think the players are “playing for” Girardi. He has lost them.
    Torre would not have done better, he is having motivation issues in LA now too.
    There is really nothing that can be done now. All you need to know about this season is what you saw the last two games.
    They face Wakefield, a guy they normally crush, who was rusty just off the DL. Last night they face Byrd, who was released and was struggling. In Byrds last 6 starts the Yankees had the fewest hits against Byrd and the most K`s . So five other teams did a better job than the Yanks did against Byrd.
    The Yankees faced probably the softess lineup Boston has ever used against the Yankees and the Yanks gave up 18 runs in 18 innings.
    Bostons 4 and 5 hitters went 6-14 with 8 RBI and 4 walks-Yanks 4 and hitters went 3-17 2 RBI 0 walks. Not to mention that the Yankee 4 and 5 hitters faced weaker pitching going against Wakefield and Byrd, while the Boston 4 and 5 hitters faced Petitte and Ponson

  28. SJ44 August 28th, 2008 at 9:16 am

    For those of you who bought the BS line that it was Cole’s father that “changed his mind” about Cole not wanting to sign with the Yankees (and “fooling” the Yankees) there is this beauty this morning:

    Pedro Alvarez, the Pirates first round pick, and like Cole a Scott Boras client, NEVER signed his contract with the Pirates and is now demanding a new deal.

    You can’t make this stuff up. Another Scott Boras play.

    Like the old saying goes, “You lie with dogs, you wake up with fleas”.

    You want to deal with Scott Boras in the draft? You end up with your guys not signing (Cole), needing TJ Surgery (Bleich) and being jerked around more than dealing with any agent on the planet.

  29. Fredo Corleone August 28th, 2008 at 9:17 am

    “I feel like I’m in the middle of a bad dream that I just can’t wake up from. I really detest that feeling. Unfortunately the more things spiral out of control, the more I fear it’s going to be with me. The real downside to being a passionate fan.”

    Even more difficult when you become accustomed to being in the October mix. Basically, a generation of Yankees fans have no idea what it’s like to see a season end with Spetember. It’s always a good lesson to have a feel for how the other half lives though, and while I would not call the Yankees a lock for a playoff spot next year, I do think we’ll see a different and improved product on the field that will once again be a threat to the title on an annual basis.

  30. John in Ohio August 28th, 2008 at 9:18 am

    Hank’s predicting big changes. Let the speculation begin.

    Giambi, Abreu, Pudge, Pavano…probably all gone. Abreu is clutch at the plate, but kills you in the outfield.

    I don’t see how they can let Pettitte and Moose go. Maybe one of them.

    They’ll go after Teixeira and Sabathia hard, but CC is from Southern California, and might want to sign there.

    And how about a possible trade or two?? It’s only August, but already time for hot stove Yankees speculation, because this year is done.

  31. Phelps Phan August 28th, 2008 at 9:18 am

    “Abreu – 1 year contract (maybe)”
    Nooo way you bring Abreu back, UNLESS he’s a DH.(He’s fallen off defensivley, just look at that play at the wall last night)

    If you bring him back as a DH, you’ll have to move Matsui or Damon (which i can’t see happening)

  32. TGFizeek August 28th, 2008 at 9:18 am

    nemo-great pitching beats great hitting. Not only do I think we need to go for CC, I’m wondering if we don’t need Sheets as well. Current ’09 rotation:
    Everyone else can go FA or should still be in the minors. If they bring back Andy and Moose you have almost the same starting rotation as this year! Guys like Rasner, Geise, IPK and Hughes should stay in AAA and fill in due to injuries or spot starts. Definitly not rotation guys right now (or next year).
    I don’t think Sheets signs to be a third starter but what a third starter he’d be. AJ Burnett is out there too. I know these guys get hurt but so do Wang, Joba and Andy. We need MLB caliber depth, not AAA depth.
    Here’s the rotation I’d like to see:

    That gives Joba some extra days off until someone gets hurt and he has to move up in the rotation.
    Finally, DO NOT SIGN TEXIERA! Seems like another player that will come to NY half-heartedly and fizzle here. Spend the money on the rotation, spend the money on the ‘pen. Jorge may be playing 1B soon anyways.

  33. UmPires Bribed August 28th, 2008 at 9:20 am

    “And am I the only one who would rather see Texiera signed at 1B over CC?”

    pitching wins games

  34. Timothy Clougher August 28th, 2008 at 9:21 am


    Sorry, Yes Torre would have done better. I’m not saying Giradi should go, because I believe he was bought in because the Yanks want to go young. I also said there are other coach’s that would be doing better with the offense, I will give Joe G credit for the bullpen.

    Think a little bit, he is good with veteran’s, Giradi is not.

    I know you are a very smart baseball guy, and you know Giambi out of the 5th spot, would be helpful to the offense.

  35. John in Ohio August 28th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Ooops….Sabathia is from Vallejo CA, which is up near SF. Sorry.

  36. Bam Bam Balboni August 28th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    What do people want Girardi to say? After every loss should he say “The team sucks” or point out who did horrible every game? Is that productive?

    And why is it soooo bad that he was trying to stick up for his player (ARod) and say he hits in the clutch. What should he say to the media – “The guy is fragile and sometimes sucks when there’s a lot of pressure” How is that going to help the Yankees. I guess I just don’t get it.

  37. black yankee August 28th, 2008 at 9:25 am

    Kind of hard to fire the manager and start over. I dont think these guy play for him, and he makes a lot of mistakes probably due to lack of experience. He is also extremely stubborn and not flexible, and that hurts the team because he is not willing to change things.
    I would not re sign Pettitte, too inconsistent. They have Joba, Wang, I`d make Mussina a one year deal and make him the # 5 guy. I would try for CC and get one other big time starter. I would not count on Hughes or Kennedy or Rasner. I`d let them stay in the minors until they totally dominate the minors. With injuries to pitching every year it helps to have guys in the minors that can help in a jam.
    Giambi has to go. I`d keep Abreu, probably the most consistent guy in the lineup. I`d keep Matsui, best clutch hitter. I`d speak to AGOD about batting in the 2 spot. Damon would stay too.

  38. SJ44 August 28th, 2008 at 9:25 am

    He has veterans in LA and is under .500

    You live in a world that believes a manager can make all the difference. He can’t.

    How is Jim Leyland doing this year? Most people in baseball believe he is the best manager in the game. He’s having a nightmare season in Detroit.

    Its not the manager. Its not moving guys in the order. Its the PLAYERS.

    They are an old team, filled with guys who are on the downside of their careers. Its also filled with guys who KNOW they won’t be back next year and KNOW they won’t be going to the playoffs.

    You know what happens what that takes place? They check out. Which is precisely what they are doing.

    Joe Torre is no magician. In fact, prior to coming to the Yankees his CAREER managerial record, spanning close to 15 seasons, was UNDER .500.

    He, like most guys who win, have good players who play the game the right way.

    When you don’t have that, and this year’s Yankee team does not, you have issues

    Don’t get caught up in names. Look at production. When you do, you will see that their is ONE guy (Damon) in the everyday lineup who is at or surpassing their career year.

    That’s not good enough to win.

  39. TGFizeek August 28th, 2008 at 9:27 am

    If you want to give Torre credit for offense, remember what he does to pitching. Our bullpen would be significantly worse, Moose may not be having the kind of year he is and Joba and Hughe’s careers would be over because he can’t manage young arms.
    Seriously, Torre, Girardi, no one gets through a season like this. The Yankees have been rebuilding over the last 2 years and have remained (somewhat) competitive.
    A better argument is how do you feel about Santana for Melky and Hughes now?

  40. SJ44 August 28th, 2008 at 9:29 am

    For those who think it was Cole’s father who “fooled” the Yankees, here is one to chew on today.

    Pedro Alvarez, like Cole a Scott Boras client, and the second pick in the draft, did not sign his deal with the Pirates.

    It was thought he signed for 6 million dollars. Yet, for the past two weeks, the Pirates haven’t heard from him.

    Turns out, Boras informed the Pirates that Alvarez, “did not sign the contract” by the midnight deadline and now “wants a new deal”>

    You can’t make this stuff up!

    There is an old saying that says, “when you lie with dogs, you wake up with fleas”.

    If you want to keep dealing with Scott Boras, especially with draft eligible players, you do it at your own risk.

  41. Phelps Phan August 28th, 2008 at 9:29 am

    Yea, managers / coaches in every sport are overrated.

  42. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 9:30 am

    After it is mathematically clear that the Yankees don’t stand a chance, I suspect Girardi will be a little more realistic in his comments. But I don’t expect he will ever place blame on any particular players. I also don’t expect that he will disparage the work ethic of the players. Think about it: he has never talked about his situation with the Marlins and he never will. Because ultimately, nothing is gained by making that public. He has also said you have experiences and you learn from them. Well, unfortunately, this season has been more of a learning experience than any of us, probably Girardi most of all, expected. He will know his players better, and I hope he has at least something to say about players who will be brought here.

    Someone said he was brought in because the Yankees want to get younger. In that case, in was brought in a year too early. This is a veteran team, set in its ways. I believe the Yankees really, really hoped Torre would accept their one-year deal because of that. But if Girardi takes some lessons from this, and there is enough of a change in player personnel, the next two years should start to show more Girardi. He did make an impact on the bullpen – the least experienced faction of the team. That gives me hope.

  43. TurnTwo August 28th, 2008 at 9:31 am

    ““And am I the only one who would rather see Texiera signed at 1B over CC?”

    Yup, pretty much”

    idk if i prefer one or the other. i would say we need both, but i think the yankees front office will be more creative this offseason than to just spend $200+ million for two FAs and just plug them in and be done with it.

  44. Fran August 28th, 2008 at 9:32 am

    Maybe the big changes Hank is talking about starts with the GM. Cashman has to be held accountable and I am sure will have to show how he will turn this around.

  45. UmPires Bribed August 28th, 2008 at 9:33 am

    its better for the yankees not to make the playoff, that will want the FO to make a blockbuster move

  46. Timothy Clougher August 28th, 2008 at 9:33 am


    These guy’s played for Torre, they respected Torre, IMO I don’t think they respect Joe G as much. We can agree to dis-agree on this, it doesn’t really matter the ship sailed and we have Joe G.

    I believe you are seeing a change in NY, IMO this is a 2yr project from contracts coming off this year’s payrol and the 09 payroll as well.

    I don’t profess to know what signing’s they will make, I have my own idea’s but it would be speculation, I’m very interested to see in the off season which direction, they take this team.

    Sorry I will stick to my guns, Giambi should not be in the 5th hole.

  47. george August 28th, 2008 at 9:34 am

    i read both Pete’s and Tyler Kepner’s game articles. they were very long on Girardi comments. neither mentioned Abreu’s non-catch in the 8th, which was the play that set up the inning.

    these guys are just gossip columnists, not baseball writers. Pete does run a nice blog; but when it comes to writing about games, they are inept.

  48. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. August 28th, 2008 at 9:35 am

    “Basically, a generation of Yankees fans have no idea what it’s like to see a season end with Spetember.”

    Actually I’ve been a Yankee fan for a lot longer than the glory of the mid 90s on. It’s just that I have gotten accustomed to the October feeling.


    To make myself feel better today I keep thinking of how we marched into Fenway one August and swept through there without breaking a sweat. Well the Sux were able to emerge again in life, even temporarily, so I cannot be totally destroyed that this season could very well end up bad. (Notice that I still haven’t given in yet!) It doesn’t mean we will never see glory days again.


  49. Timothy Clougher August 28th, 2008 at 9:35 am

    My speculation is they will try for more guy’s like X, just a hunch.

  50. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 9:35 am

    SJ44 -

    Last night David Cone spoke about how in the situation the Yankees find themselves they truly have to play mind games with themselves – they’re not technically eliminated, but they know the score, they’re not that stupid. I think some players can do that, but it is a difficult and draining undertaking and I agree that there are players on this team who just aren’t up to it. I don’t think they’ve all checked out, but all it takes is for a key one or two to do so, and it affects the whole team.

  51. John in Ohio August 28th, 2008 at 9:36 am

    I think it’s very possible that either Damon or Matsui get moved in the off season. One will stay and be the DH, and the other will probably be moved. Matsui is clutch and has pop. Damon sets the table and scores runs.

    A-Rod, Tex, Nady, and ? will be manning the corner positions full time.

    Posada, Jeter, Cano, and ? up the middle. Too bad we can’t get Damon a bionic arm somewhere.

  52. randy l August 28th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    success turns on a dime sometimes.

    this is whether you are running a small business or a a large business like the yankees.

    in my small business we had three record lows earlier in the week. in a recessionary environment , i could have said it was the recession’s fault. or i could have blamed the manager for my business or the employees.

    instead, i said what can i change to get a better day today than last year’s day. the first thing i did was tell all the employees the situation and what the goal was. the goal was a day where we’re better than last year.

    i personally started making changes. 30 years in the business told me where i could get results fast. bottom line, we had a record breaking day for this time of the year. it turns out the problem was that i cut inventory too low in a key area of the business trying to be cash rich in a recessionary environment.

    we added inventory from other less important areas and customers responded. we had a win instead of a loss. now we can build on that.

    you can give in to doing badly and blame others and say things like “they suck” when really you mean “you suck”.

    it’s my business. when things go bad, it’s up to me to make them go right. hank and hal are in exactly the same situation just with a whole lot more zeroes added on to the total.

    the yankees could have turned things around just by winning a few games in this series. instead they have a leadership that points the fingers at others instead of taking charge.

  53. black yankee August 28th, 2008 at 9:38 am

    No question. I know around here people do not want to hear about Santana/Hughes/Melky/Kennedy, but it proved to be a major mistake. People here were saying that back in the winter. Bottom line is that Cashman over rated his minor league players. There is not one player other than Joba who has come up and made an impact. Gardner cannot hit, Hughes? pitched well for a very short period of time two years ago. Kennedy? same thing. Rasner? clear AAAA player. Giese? a litle better but not a big impact. If there was talent down there now to help they`d be up already.
    Cashman deal? I really think he was growing tired of hearing how the Yankees “always” threw away their future for now, and he was determined not to do it again. Problem is Santana was considered in the top 4 pitchers in baseball, and he passed based on having Pettitte back, and he had a mediocre year, and having Kennedy and Hughes unproven in the rotation. Even if they did not get hurt its hard to believe that Kennedy and Hughes would win 12-15 games between them. Joba strugglled in this division too, and hes a lot better than Hughes and Kennedy.
    Santana? yup, for those of you people who think the Yankees are spending your personal $$$, yup, you would have perhaps paid Santana for at least two years more than he is worth–However, you would probably be in the playoff hunt now, and with Santana as a consistent anchor, you`d be able to bring the younger pitchers along.
    Plus, you could have a new and probably better CF, since he`d be in Minnesota right now.

  54. Drive 4-5 August 28th, 2008 at 9:39 am

    I’m in the minority, but unless the Yanks find someone to replace Abreu’s 90 – 100 rbi and obp, how can they not re sign him?

    Xavier Nady is a very nice player. But he’s almost 30 and his best season ( ’08) is Abreu’s career average. Abreau’s defense is bad, but he’ll win a lot more games with his bat than he’ll lose with his glove. Plus, it looks like AL pitchers have found the hole on Nady’s swing. He has trouble hitting high fastballs.

    They are tied into contracts with ARod, Posada and Jeter and Rivera.Joba is untouchable. The rest of the roster should be up for grabs.

  55. SJ44 August 28th, 2008 at 9:41 am

    The whole parsing of Girardi’s comments is comical to me.

    Really, what do you want him to say? You want him to say, “we have no shot”, even though they aren’t mathematically eliminated?

    You want him to embarrass his players? Honestly, do you really think that Mickey Mouse nonsense works? It doesn’t.

    I guess he could make himself a “fan favorite” (at least to some) and embarrass Arod by batting him 8th today, like Torre did in the post-season. How did that work out?

    You don’t embarrass your players. Not if you want to remain a manager.

    You know what you do? You suck it up, and play hard for the rest of the season.

    Its not the NY Yankees birthright to go to the playoffs every year. It is however, it IS their birthright to play as hard as they can the rest of the way. That much they owe to the fans, the franchise and themselves.

    That doesn’t mean they can or will win every game. However, you can sure as hell put the effort and that’s what they need to do.

    You don’t resort to the cheap theatrics crybabies and the media (who will now look for ANYTHING resembling dissention to write about) search for in times like these.

  56. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 9:42 am

    John in Ohio -

    Tablesetter or clutch-hitter type. What a choice. I’m glad I don’t have to make it, but I guess it depends on what is received in return – how the particular hole is filled.

    What complicates things further is that both of those guys are the type of player you want – fighters, gamers, whatever you want to call them. Abreu is nice, but, sigh, something’s not there that they other guys have. So Abreu should be easier to let go, especially with Nady in the fold.

    IF Posada can catch next season, Matsui can be DH. IF they can get a good CF, then Damon can play left. I don’t know what’s out there for 1B if you decide against Tex. So many question marks, though. Too many.

  57. Cam August 28th, 2008 at 9:42 am

    You probably got the news during the game feed, but congrats on the shout out on YES last night Pete. Micheal Kay did you great justice.

  58. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 9:42 am

    Oh, I’m assuming Nady can play right field! Can he?

  59. Phelps Phan August 28th, 2008 at 9:42 am

    The only way that i would accept Abreu back, is if he DH’s.

  60. John in Ohio August 28th, 2008 at 9:45 am


    Yes, Nady has played RF quite a bit, including 86 times this year.

  61. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 9:46 am

    Thanks, John in Ohio.

  62. Bronx Jeers August 28th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    I literally declared them dead after last nights 43rd debacle of the season but here is a scenario which gives us a reason to pay attention to them.

    A win tonight and they only have to make up 3 games in 28 left to end up 3 back with 3 to play in Fenway during the last weekend.

    My optimism has apparently hit its apex on that one.

  63. daver August 28th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    Doreen…of course Nady can play RF. He was a RF with the Pirates and has a great arm.

  64. Fredo Corleone August 28th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    “Plus, it looks like AL pitchers have found the hole on Nady’s swing. He has trouble hitting high fastballs.”

    And that shockingly includes Paul Byrd’s “fastball”.

    I kind of agree on Nady. I think he is a solid everyday guy, but he’s no allstar. He’s also not a .300+ hitter. He’ll play defense and I see him hitting .280-.285 with 25 longballs and 85-90 RBI. He’s a downgrade from Abreu offensively, though not a huge one, but I think he’s the type of player the Yankees need insomuch as he’s a little younger and is a pretty productive RIGHTHANDED bat.

  65. Fran August 28th, 2008 at 9:48 am

    “The only way that i would accept Abreu back, is if he DH’s”

    I think that is part of the problem with this line-up. Too many DHs or players that should be because they really can’t play the field.

  66. Jeremy August 28th, 2008 at 9:48 am

    “These guy’s played for Torre, they respected Torre, IMO I don’t think they respect Joe G as much.”

    No crap. A few of these guys won 4 rings under Torre. As for the other players, Torre won more rings than anyone else they ever played for. He also has a whole lot more managing experience than Girardi. He commands a lot of respect.

    But here’s the thing. The players almost certainly respect Girardi too. We’ve seen no evidence to the contrary. And a comparison of their respect for Girardi and Torre means zero when the players are on the field.

    The bottom line is Torre’s managing skills did not entitle him to a lifetime right to run the team. The Midge Swarm Game was the nail in that coffin. The Yankees had to replace him someday. This season was as a good a time as any. It’s not as if the Yankees chucked him out the door in 2001.

    “Sorry I will stick to my guns, Giambi should not be in the 5th hole.”

    I agree with you, but I don’t think this is some kind of team-killing move by Girardi. Moving Giambi down (I presume) in the lineup will not suddenly result in the team scoring 8 runs a game. Let’s say you put Nady there and put Giambi in the 6-spot. Now Giambi will ground out to strand Nady, instead of grounding out to strand ARod.

    It’s funny, earlier lots of people on this board were killing Girardi for making too many changes to the lineup. Now the criticism of the day is that he’s not making enough changes. Look, this stuff makes almost no difference. It’s still the same players (SJ44 says it better than I can). Statistically (I know that can be a dirty word here), batting orders really don’t matter very much.

    No one has provided any real examples of ways Torre would have improved this team.

  67. black yankee August 28th, 2008 at 9:49 am


    Agree no theatrics needed. How bout him trying something different? How bout him making some changes? The team is going in the wrong direction, and has been for a while. Very few of his players are playing close to their talent level. Its his job as the manager to try to find a way to right the ship. writing in the same lineup day in and day out does nothing.
    If it wasnt the managers responsiblity for the teams performance why have a manager? He is the manager, so he needs to manage right?
    He makes no changes or adjustments regardless of the outcomes. He is limited with this roster, no question, but he needs to do something.
    Forget the playoffs, the team has underachieved, dramatically. So is it one guy? no its almost all. So therefore the leader is accountable, he is responsible.

  68. Timothy Clougher August 28th, 2008 at 9:50 am

    Bronx Jeers:

    I’m with Trisha on this, anything is possible.

    As long as Giambi is out of the 5th spot, this is just MO not Trisha’s. I cannot speak for her.

  69. Phelps Phan August 28th, 2008 at 9:52 am

    “I think that is part of the problem with this line-up. Too many DHs or players that should be because they really can’t play the field.”

    Precisley why i dont think they brinh him back. With Abreu, Damon, and Matsui all do the same thing.

  70. TurnTwo August 28th, 2008 at 9:53 am

    Abreu isnt coming back.

    they’ll let him go, and let Nady take over RF. they’re going to need the picks when they forfeit their own to sign a Sabathia/Teixeira-type FA come this offseason.

    Abreu is a nice player, but a declining player.

    and just like many thought that Torre needed to be fired, not because he was an awful manager, but because the clubhouse needed a new voice, and renwed energy and leadership in the clubhouse… same applies for the players on the roster.

  71. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    daver -

    Yeah, thanks. I shoulda known that.

    Jeremy -

    Moving Giambi may or may not help, but how can it hurt to try it at this point? I’ve never been one to bust on the day’s lineup – ever – but if Nady or Matsui is currently doing better with the bat than Giambi, why not give it a try? It may be too late anyway, but perhaps right now is exactly the time to do it, before there’s no chance at all for it to work.

  72. Timothy Clougher August 28th, 2008 at 9:55 am


    If you want to tlak statistically look at the same line-up that we have today that started the 07 season. May 07 Torre moved Giambi out of the 5th spot and benched him. He didn’t use Giambi again unless he batted 7th as a DH.

    He did not make him a full-time 1st baseman, and leave in the line-up day in and day out, with no contribution none, not even a good defensive player.

    How hard is this to see, you guy’s are watching the same games that I am.

  73. Jeremy August 28th, 2008 at 9:56 am

    I am also in agreement with SJ44 about the hyperanalyzing of Girardi’s comments.

    This stuff is meaningless. Remember when Cashman said “There is no trade market” and commenters jumped all over him, calling for his head? What kind of jackass says there’s no trade market when we need to make trades, right? What a cowardly idiot.

    Then he brings in Nady, Marte, and IRod. (Don’t say “Well Marte and IRod have sucked! You can’t blame Cashman for their underperformance so far.)

    Girardi and Cashman have to make comments to the press. They make canned comments. It’s all a facade. It’s what they say to the players and other GMs that actually matters. Unfortunately we have to settle for the facade.

  74. Fredo Corleone August 28th, 2008 at 9:56 am

    “Abreu isnt coming back.

    they’ll let him go, and let Nady take over RF. they’re going to need the picks when they forfeit their own to sign a Sabathia/Teixeira-type FA come this offseason.”

    Agreed. Abreu is the only FA they have who will bring them two Top 40-45 picks.

  75. TGFizeek August 28th, 2008 at 9:56 am

    I think Girardi’s taking one for the players by sounding almost naive to the media. He looks clueless because he won’t point the finger (or do anything that could be construed as much). I’ll bet he hasn’t move Giambi because:
    1) his locker room leader status
    2) the teams request to leave the batting order the same
    3) he shows confidence in veterans they can manage themselves

  76. daver August 28th, 2008 at 9:57 am

    I agree on Giambi being out of the 5th spot. He is a rally killing disgrace.

  77. SJ44 August 28th, 2008 at 9:57 am

    Let me ask you something Tim…..

    How did they play for Torre last year? They were under .500 at the ASB and only made the playoffs because they slugged their way in against bad teams. Not winning the division mind you for the first time in almost 10 years.

    In other words, they were worse in 2007 than they were in 2006.

    They played a team (Cleveland) they beat in EVERY game they played against them in the regular season. How did that series turn out?

    They “played” for Torre in that series, didn’t they?

    How about 2006? How did they “play” for Torre in the last two games in Detroit? They really put it on the line for him in that series, especially in Detroit, didn’t they?

    How do you know the players don’t respect Girardi? Because Pete and the other beat writers are ticked off that Girardi is secretative and less open as Torre?

    The players don’t give a crap about the flap between Girardi and the beat writers. In fact, they LOVE it.

    You know why? It takes the focus off them. Every players dream.

    All this revisionist history about Torre and the Yankees is nonsense.

    Look at the last 4 years of Torre’s reign in NY. We saw the same stuff we are seeing now in EVERY one of those seasons.

    You know what’s changed? Sidney Ponson and Darrel Rasner didn’t become Aaron Small or Shaun Chacon to save 2005.

    Derek Jeter’s play was not like it was in 2006. Which, saved that season and should have gotten him the MVP Award. Melky Cabrera declined dramatically and, unlike 2006, did not help this team overcome OF injuries.

    Robbie Cano also has dropped off dramatically from his 2006 season.

    Arod hasn’t had the season he had in 2007. A season in which he CARRIED this team to the playoffs.

    Now I ask you, what the hell does Joe Torre have to do with that? These guys didn’t “play” for Torre. They play for themselves.

    Arod doens’t even like Torre. Do you think he “misses” him?

    Take a good look at the team. Its an OLD team. No, check that, its a VERY OLD team.

    One position player under 30. The two best starting pitchers on the staff are 39 and 36. The closer is 37.

    Old teams like this don’t win. I don’t care who the manager is, they don’t win.

    They also didn’t win the last 4 years under Torre. Unless of course, you think 4-13 in the post-season means “winning”.

    Most of us who don’t look at the team through pinstripe glasses have seen a season like this coming for the last 3 years.

    Unfortunately, for those that didn’t see it coming, its hit them like a ton of bricks. However, when you watch and see the trends in the game changing dramatically in this Post-PED/Greenies Era, its not surprising a season like this is finally upon us.

    One thing you will NEVER change about baseball. You can’t fight Father Time. Sooner or later, EVERY player reaches a point in his career where the downturn takes place. For this Yankee team, its the perfect storm of too many of those kind of players on this team combined with not enough young talent to offset it.

    How to fix it? That’s the question.

  78. Brad August 28th, 2008 at 9:57 am

    This team from the front office down to the 25th player was a complete embarrassment to themselves and to their fanbase.
    It’s a disgrace that a storied franchise like the Yankees couldn’t muster up the ability to even make a final postseason appearance in the old Stadium.
    Get ready to listen repeatedly that this is the 1st year since 1993 that the Yankees didn’t appear in the playoffs.
    Injuries ? Every team has them but learn to win in other ways if they have a sense of purpose to do so. The 2008 Yankees never found a sense of purpose.

  79. randy l August 28th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    in the late eighties and early nineties the yankees had an absentee owner because george was banned from running the team. so that left someone else in charge who was actually in charge.

    if hank is in charge down in tampa , but he doesn’t show up in new york, then is anyone really in charge? the people on the front lines see what’s going on ,but they don’t have the power to implement strategic change.

    this yankee team is so screwed up on an ownership and management level that it’s not surprising that the team has gone bad.

  80. Phelps Phan August 28th, 2008 at 9:59 am

    Does anyone see them moving Matsui this off-season ?

  81. Jeremy August 28th, 2008 at 10:01 am

    Doreen and TC,

    I agree with you that Girardi should try something different with Giambi. I agree 100%. Giambi to me is the most frustrating player on the team because he is completely one-dimensional (thus the super shift). Girardi should do anything he can to shake up his routine.

    I just disagree that moving him in the lineup or benching him would have made a significant difference. He would probably have remained the same hitter.

    Bench him and you have an even worse bat taking his place. There is no red-hot, overlooked rookie waiting in the wings for his lineup spot.

    We don’t have a decent first baseman to replace Giambi in the field either.

    I think Doreen said it best. Give moving Giambi a shot. I just don’t see it as a team-saving move. I can see the logic in what Girardi is doing too – hoping for Giambi to get hot again and become a HR machine. Unlikely, but so is him coming around in a different lineup spot.

  82. Fredo Corleone August 28th, 2008 at 10:02 am

    Checking the remaining schedules and it looks even bleaker.

    Yankees have the tough series coming up with the Jays then embark on a brutal road trip featuring trips to Tampa and Disneyland. Even the following homestand looks tough with 7 games vs. the Rays and White Sox.

    Boston, on the other hand, plays 20 of their final 29 at Fenway and three of their roadies are against Texas.

  83. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 10:03 am

    I wouldn’t say screwed up, but I would say that they’re learning on the fly. After all Hal and Hank weren’t all that involved up until last season and this is the first season where their really accountable (although I guess to whom would be the question). I do agree that confusion at the top filters down, though.

  84. daver August 28th, 2008 at 10:04 am

    “Does anyone see them moving Matsui this off-season?”

    I think they would be open to it. They have 2 LF/DH’s…Matsui and Damon. Do they keep both or can put them in a deal?

    They need a young CF that can field, throw, run, and hit.

  85. David Cone's Labrum August 28th, 2008 at 10:05 am

    Why do the fans continue to let Giambi get away with his performance? The guy is 50 points lower than Arod with RISP.

    He’s been a bust with NY, save for the two HRs he hit off Pedro in Game 7, 2003.

    Fans should be booing THAT guy, not Arod.

  86. Vrsce August 28th, 2008 at 10:05 am

    black yankee

    You are correct, but it is hindsight and only worth something if it informs future decisions.

    So what do you suggest the Yankees do in the upcomin, very shortly, off season.

  87. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    Jeremy -

    I agree that moving Giambi down in the order won’t improve Giambi, but it might give the team a better shot to score if Nady and Matsui are ahead of him. It might get ARod some better pitches to hit. Who knows? I don’t know. It’s frustrating, to say the least.

  88. black yankee August 28th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    Cant move Matsui. If you are going to have Arod who is non clutch, you`ll need Matsui who is clutch.

  89. Timothy Clougher August 28th, 2008 at 10:07 am

    1st base has been an achillies heel since we let go of Tino.

    Yes I understand why they went and got Giambi (George) (his stats blah blah).

    Betemit or now even Cody, provide more upside that Jason.

    It would allow them to move Hideki to the 5th spot, Giambi the other night letting COCO PUFFS score from 2nd on a infield hit, was the last straw….

  90. randy l August 28th, 2008 at 10:07 am

    i have no idea why the focus is on girardi.

    he put this team together?

    the manager is a problem when he doesn’t squeak out 3-4 victories a year that could have been losses.

    how doe he squeak out the 10 -12 vicories that this team needs to be a good team.

    if you don’t think injuries are an excuse, the blame needs to go to who put this team together.

    that would be hank,hal, and cashman.

    if you’re looking anywhere else, you looking in the wrong place.

  91. Jeremy August 28th, 2008 at 10:07 am

    I think Matsui’s knee surgery kills his trade value.

    As for the “ownership in disarray” comments, such disarray has nothing to do with the main reasons this team is floundering: Wang injured, Joba injured, Posada injured, Matsui injured, Pettitte mediocre, almost entire team struggling with RISP, Cano and Melky having execrable seasons, and the entire starting bench coming up as a bust.

  92. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 10:08 am

    Why do the fans continue to let Giambi get away with his performance? The guy is 50 points lower than Arod with RISP.

    Truthfully, I think it’s because most fans know Giambi is not going to be here much longer, and also because they no longer expect so much from him – or rather, they expect him to fail.

  93. Don Pratt August 28th, 2008 at 10:08 am

    Really now, does it really matter? Who is going to beat Tampa and the Angels in the playoffs? The Yankees/Sox/Minnesota/White Sox are all fighting for 2nd class citizen status this year in my opinion. It’s better that the Yankees fall out early. This way they can bring up some youngsters and get them some experience.

  94. Fredo Corleone August 28th, 2008 at 10:08 am

    “Does anyone see them moving Matsui this off-season ?”

    I don’t. Looked like the Giants showed some interest last year, but were not offering much (Lowry??). At this point, I think the NL is probably out as he’s a pretty weak outfielder. Also don’t think anyone will offer something really useful for 1 year of Matsui. Does anyone know whether Matsui plans to play in the US beyond his current contract??? If so, maybe something along the lines of what they got for Sheffield could happen.

  95. Jeremy August 28th, 2008 at 10:10 am

    “Starting bench” is stupid. I meant the bench we started the season with. Duncan and Betemit are the biggest little disappointments of the season.

  96. 86w183 August 28th, 2008 at 10:11 am

    Abreu shouldn’t be re-signed unless Damon and/or Matsui is moved. I can’t see him fulltime in RF when he’s more afraid of fences than a three year old is of the dark. That play last night was a perfect example.Still then need to offer him arbitration to get the draft choice compensation and I suspect he’ll take it. If he does and ends up in RF they should play him as shallow as possible to try and take away some singles since the balls over his head aren’t getting caught anyway.

    You can’t compare Teixiera now with Giambi seven years ago. First of all, Tex is younger than Giambi was then. He is a far better athlete, a far better defensive player and his stats didn’t come from a syringe.

    If you look at the current team there is $ 90 million coming off the payroll. If you have to spend half of it on CC and Tex then do it. Keep Mussina or Pettite (not both) and move on. They will have totrade some young arms to try and find a young position player or two. I would hold Joba, Melancon, Veras and Hughes and put every other arm on the block.

  97. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 10:11 am

    Jeremy -

    Maybe. But maybe teams will think Matsui’s got two new knees (or fresh ones) now. They will also see he’s come back from the surgery and is able to go 1st to 3rd on a single, and score from second. Unfortunately, his ability to play the field everyday will still be a question, and I don’t think the Yankees are going to put him out there to find out.

    I’m heding my bets the Yankees want to keep him, though.

  98. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 10:12 am

    **hedging, not heding.

  99. Fredo Corleone August 28th, 2008 at 10:15 am


    Disagree on Abreu accepting arbitration. This is his last shot a big payday via free agency. He can probably get three years and option from somebody, but it ain’t the Yankees. Accepting arbitration and taking the one year from the Yankees as his skills are declining would be detrimental to his account balances.

  100. TurnTwo August 28th, 2008 at 10:16 am

    “Truthfully, I think it’s because most fans know Giambi is not going to be here much longer, and also because they no longer expect so much from him – or rather, they expect him to fail.”

    well, that, and Giambi isnt nearly the total player ARod is. ARod being a legendary player, people just get frustrated when they know he’s better than the level he’s playing at.

    and then dopes like this guy who was on FAN yesterday on the ride home i was listening to dont make it any better… he called to complaion about ARod’s ego, and how he was sitting alone on the bench by himself sulking, but then when he turned and saw the YES camera on him, he started cheering for Cano.

    he said he’s obviously only cares about himself until the cameras are on, and then he’ll cheer for his teammates to help improve his image and make himself look good.

    seriously? ugh. how about he just had an awful day at work, and was ticked off at himself? unbelievable some of these people think.

    and i also think that they’ll shop Damon and Matsui in the offseason. if they can get a useful package for them, i think one, or both, can go.

    i dont think they’ll move either one of them just to move them in a salary dump, or something like that.

  101. Chris August 28th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    There’s no point in half sweeping players out the door. Any player that showed a downside both in ability and age should be subject of being elsewhere in 2009.
    Cashman has more than his hands full and if he remains as GM, his approach needs changing also.
    Players are no longer clamoring about coming to the Bronx. Sabathia and Teixeira won’t be beating the door down and Cashman and the Steinbrenners will need to be super salesman to lure free agents here.
    It should be made known that there’s no untouchables on this team and all reasonable deals will be listened to.
    Alex Rodriquez is the one separate issue with his outrageous contract. He needs to be told in no uncertain terms that he is to become less of a home run swinging at bat and more of a team style player.
    This is no more than an ordinary team and will have to work their way back to the status they once had.

  102. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 10:19 am

    Turn Two -

    I’ll never understand the ARod ‘hate.’ Disappointment, heck yeah, I understand that. But the other stuff – nah.

  103. Joey's Poodle August 28th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    1. I don’t think Girardi should be fired and although his weakness at handling the press is an irritant I don’t think it amounts to much in the larger picture. He’s early in his career as a manager and has bigger areas he needs to work on than that — I’m not listing them again partly because I don’t like to repeat myself here and partly because you know yourselves what they are. (And maybe because if you don’t you haven’t been paying attention… ;-) ) We’ll know more about his true capacities this time next year.

    2. Should Cashman go? Well, it might be better for him, but what then — does NYY really need another novice in a key position right now?

    3. Those of us who have been around for a while have seen the team down and we’ve seen the team up, and while, believe me, we like up better, we know the Yankees rise again, even when it takes a while. But the younger fans and some of our players have no experience of a reality that does not include the prospect of YANKEES IN THE PLAYOFFS. Not only sadness (even the oldest fan can feel sad about it) but bitter incredulity are their lot. No use telling them it’s not the end of the world because, actually, it IS the end of a particular world, the one where their team is always, always in it.

  104. stuart August 28th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    yea the dodgers and the prophet torre look grea tlosing 5 in a row 2 to the mighty nats.

    really how stupid are you fans????

    yea the Yanks powerful lineup pounded another 3 runs last night, this offense is 1 of the best of all time!!!!!

    Yea blame it on the manager for a rotation of ponson, rasner, and the great and durable pavano…

    Do you people think this up or you just joking!!!!!!

    EVery old guy not under contract must go, adios overpriced, overhyped, junk.. bye bye jason(clutch HR in the 9th last night), abreu(watch out for the wall), pettitte(unless 1 yr deal very low $$$$), etc.

    Cano needs a lobotomy else they need to think about trading him…

  105. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Chris -

    ARod will never be told to stop swinging for HRs. One of the reasons that he was re-signed is all the money the Yankees (and ARod) stand to make as he makes his way up all the milestone ladders, including breaking Bonds’ record.

  106. Fran August 28th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Doreen – I agree with you about ARod. I see him as part of the solution – he is not the problem. Alex in a bad year is still better than the other players on the team.

  107. Timothy Clougher August 28th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Betemit would have a better average than Giambi, if he was given the opportunity and not have to check the line-up card everyday, like Giambi doesn’t have to now.

  108. Phelps Phan August 28th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    Jesus Christ, even when A-Rod has a good night at the plate you still only wanna talk about the negatives.

    I guess he really can’t win.

  109. bru August 28th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    the money needs to be spent on pitching,sabathia,sheets,etc.when are we going to learn that a 20 million dollar player at every position does not work.the red sox get bay and the yankees get nady and pudge.the yankees have to stop signing players that are 33 yrs old and older.get younger,better pitching.they need to get the best 1-5 pitching staff that they can possibly get.texiera would be great but not for 7 years 140 million,i would pass,he is another giambi in a few years.get good hard nosed players to fill the holes and get some pitching.the red sox lose manny and get bay and become better and makes less than half of what manny makes and is 7 or 8 years not make a move unless it is the right move,wait until the right piece comes along,fix the problems one piece at a time and it will work itself out.right now the yankees need a catcher,first baseman,center fielder and pitching,let the right move come to us and stop trying to force the situation and please sign 2 aces to go with wang and joba.

  110. Timothy Clougher August 28th, 2008 at 10:28 am

    Of the two, I would trade Hideki and keep Damon, as is evident finding a DH isn’t really a problem…Damon could DH and if he had to play LF, for Jorge to DH.

  111. Chris August 28th, 2008 at 10:35 am

    Doreen :

    I find difficulty understanding why A-Rod absolutely has to swing for the fences with every at bat.
    Too many times we’ve seen where he should have moved runners over by sacrificing or even dumping a little single over the infield to score a run and keep runners and rallies moving.
    The old adage applies with him: Live by the home run – die by the home run.
    Part of this problem is Girardi’s poor game management and telling his 3rd baseman what’s expected of him in certain situations for the sake of the team.

  112. Doreen August 28th, 2008 at 10:43 am

    Chris -

    When everything is going right, ARod is able to do it all – get his homeruns and do everything else everyone expects him to do.

  113. bru August 28th, 2008 at 10:50 am

    the season is over and so is giambi’s career with the yankees and people are talking about moving him down one spot??the yankees are a very old team as someone already pointed out.almost every single player is between 33-37 yrs those ages you can’t hang with the young years past steroids,hgh and other supplements kept these players off the dl and made them look 10 byears younger.the yankees need all new pitchers except wang and joba.shut joba down now,sign sabathia and get another ace,burnett,halladay,sheets,someone that is not that old and won’t command a huge contract,get rid of most of the older players,see if their is any interest in damon,matsui,nady in righjt,dh posada,get a first baseman,center fielder,maybe a catcher and some great pitching.i like our chances with sabathia,wang,joba and get younger at first base,center field,catcher and in 2010 damon and matsui come off the books so the yankees can get younger there.i would much rather wait a year or two to get the right player instead of signing the wrong players for the sake of making a move.the yankees need to get better at signing contracts.every contract ends with a player making way to much money into their late thirties early fourties.i love abraeu at 10 million dollars,pettitte the same, can pettitte be making 16 million a year and becket and kashmir combined make about 18 million a year???

  114. The Balboni Curse August 28th, 2008 at 10:52 am

    2009 Wish List:

    7)RF-X Nady

    Pitching Rotation:

  115. Bellylard August 28th, 2008 at 10:54 am

    Before you start dumping all these guys, you have to realize that most other teams have better options too, and are not going to give fair trade value and are going to ask for salary help. Then, when you trade off Damon or Matsui, and let Abreu, Pettitte, and Giambi go, you still need good players to replace them. You’re still going to need a center fielder and possibly a left fielder, a catcher, a first baseman, and at least one #1 pitcher, if not another top of the rotation-type-guy, in order to win 95 games. It’s not all going to happen. Gabe Paul jr. is not coming to rid the Indians of their young players. It’s more likely this crew gives you more signings like Pavano, Igawa, et. al.

  116. Newbox August 28th, 2008 at 11:15 am

    Tampa payroll 43 million. Offer the Rays 5 times that and I think they will bite. Sign Jeter for the ladies, that puts the team salary around $235 M. With the new Stadium, you could afford to add a couple of ex Yankees. 300 M and years of success. Hell, pay the other ex Yankees to play in Tampa. It would be pricey but it’s fool proof.

  117. Yankee gods Help US August 28th, 2008 at 11:21 am

    The Balboni Curse i agree but if we could get Bowa back somehow i would keep Cano.. otherwise let him go also pitching is also good, but get rid of Moose this is a fairy tale that will end soon.. sorry but that is real..

  118. 86w183 August 28th, 2008 at 11:37 am

    I’m not sure the market is going to be there for guys in their mid-30s. The crackdown on steroids and amphetamines sure has made older players fade more quickly in the last two years. Will someone give Abreu three years, $ 50 mill? Maybe, but I don’t think so.

    It’s great to want Kinsler, but how are the Yankees going to acquire him? If the Yanks want to pursue good young position players they are going to have to offer up some of the better arms in the system. You willing to give up Melancon for Kinsler? That’s what it would take.

    I would like to see them protect Joba, Hughes, Melancon, Veras, Austin Jackson, Jesus Montero and Austin Romine. Everyone else is available for young position players. You can’t get quality by offering up Marquez nad JB Cox… you have be willing to move better pieces.

  119. bru August 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    the yankees will be fine if they do it right.they have an endless supply of pitchers in the minors,brackman,sanchez,betances,hughes,kennedy and 50 more that i can’t remember.they have a good young mexican pitcher who is 18 yrs old and many more,heredia,Manuel Banuelos.not all of them will pan out,most won’t but we only need a few.i like brackman,he has joba like stuff.with wang,joba and if we sign an ace we have more than enough to pull 2 or three out to finish out the can’t picture it now because we don’t know these pitchers and never seen them pitch but before joba we knew nothing about him.we will in the next few years see these players.austin jackson,montero,cervelli,romine gives us a great outfielder and a few real good always works out,players will rise to the top and make the team and be around for many years.ajax should be good,same with montero who scouts say they couldn’t tell the difference between him and major league power hitters because he was hitting moon shots out as far as anyone in yankee stadium,over 400 ft shots and is as big as them or bigger.i would bring up cervelli in 2009 and dh posada,put nady at first base if abraeu comes back for less money,that will prevent them from having to overpay for texierta and lower payroll.i’d like to sign another power hitter but not the top priority.pitching is what is needed to win it all.listen to offers on cano.if he can bring in a great pitcher,catcher,first baseman,center fielder then he has to be moved.the yankees can move jeter to second base,arod to short and get a third baseman or just go out and get a new second baseman wich might be easier but no stone should be left unturned.they need a new look.lackey,sabathia,sheets,perez are all free agents.imagine a rotation of sabathia,lackey,wang,joba,hughes/pettitte/mussina.crawford is also a free agent,trade damon and sign crawford.if we got rid of damon,matsui,giambi,pettitte,mussina,abraeu and,pudge,replaced them with crawford,sabathia,lackey payroll will drop approx 52 million dollars if sabathia gets 20 million a year and lackey and crawford 15 million each.pettitte and mussina will be replaced with sabathia and lackey and damon will be replaced with crawford matsui can be replaced if posada dh’s and nady can go to first base or right field to replace giambi or abraeu so the yankees just have to worry about filling the first base or right field hole depending on where nady goes and that shouldn’t be a problem with melky,gardner,ajax,christian or a free agent.if they had a rotation of sabathia,lackey,wang,joba,hughes they would be tough to beat every single night out.

  120. bru August 28th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    SJ44 100% right.major moves need to be made.don’t forget everyone that i am not reading in any posts,in addition to sabathia and sheets,lackey is also a free agent.can you imagine a rotation of sabathia,lackey,wang,joba,mussina/hughes. sabathia is 28,lackey is 30 or 31,wang is 28 or 29,joba is 22 or 23,mussina is 39,not bad and if hughes is the 5th starter the average age is a lot younger.

  121. bru August 28th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    Bellylard if the yankees sign lackey,sabathia,crawford and dh posada,nady in right,catch molina and cervelli,trade damon and matsui,let giambi,pavano,pudge,mussina,pettitte,abraeu go they would only need a first baseman and center could move crawford to center and call up christian,melky,ajax or someone else or sign a left fielder,there is a ton of left field free agents for 2009 so the yankees only have to worry about a first baseman.with a rotation of sabathia,lackey,wang,joba,hughes it should work and hopefully ajax,montero,brackman are for real wich gives us a good outfielder,catcher,pitcher.

  122. MoBoy(aka McLovin) August 28th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    Why did Materson get the loss?Shouldn’t Paplebon get the loss?

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