The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Wrapping up an ugly game in Detroit

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 01, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Tigers manager Jim Leyland had a nine-second postgame press conference.

“I’ll make this easy for you,” he said. “We basically threw a lot of balls when we should have thrown strikes and we threw some strikes when we should have thrown balls. And that’s the end of the conversation. I’ll see you later.”

How great is that?

Meanwhile, Joe Girardi said that Sidney Ponson is staying in the rotation.

When twice asked about Robinson Cano’s sloppy defense, Girardi twice said, “I’m going to focus on the positives.”

At least he didn’t compare him to Rogers Hornsby.

Not much else to report and I have a flight to catch. Thanks for reading today.

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313 Responses to “Wrapping up an ugly game in Detroit”

  1. crawdaddie September 1st, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Lets hope Cashman has more to say on whether Ponson stays in the rotation.

  2. Chris September 1st, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    Words cannot describe how ugly this game was.

    At least they showed us a spark of offense. Unfortunately whenever they scored 8+ runs in a game, they usually score less than 8 runs the next week.

  3. you gotta have faith (yanks can make this month interesting) September 1st, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    did anyone watch/listen to phil coke’s post game interview? he was all awestruck to everything that happened to day, it was pretty hilarious

    well good thing we won today, the next nine days should be a doozy, hopefully that yanks make it intersting :)

  4. Tom September 1st, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    It’s just not Cashmans decision. Girardi decides who’s in, Giradi is to blaim afterwards.

  5. Iris September 1st, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    Man the 4th & 5th spots are up for grabs. Perhaps they give Kennedy another chance and call him up or let Aceves start one of these games.

  6. Hybrid Moments September 1st, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    Ponson staying in the rotation. Unreal.

  7. James (oh sweet jesus...pavano is pitching again!) September 1st, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    Sometimes you got to get tough with your players…tell them like it is…not baby players around!

    I’m not in that clubhouse everyday….Girardi might call people out behind closed doors…but every now and again you got to do it in the media where everybody can hear, like leyland does!

  8. alex September 1st, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    pete, did you like leyland’s comment? cos i am fairly sure you’d have scolded girardi had he done that.

  9. YankeeDudel September 1st, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    Girardi is starting to sound like George W. Bush. “Heckuva job, Cano!”

  10. Pavano Fan For Life September 1st, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Well considering Coke was extremely close to being a Pirate

  11. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    I’m pretty sure that I can guess who those two questioners were? Amazing that there were no comments about Rodriguez padding his stats or the two outs he made.

  12. Peter Abraham September 1st, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    Alex:

    Jim Leyland is a respected, successful manager and he made his point. I’d rather a manager give me a great quote like that than five minutes of nonsense.

  13. James (oh sweet jesus...pavano is pitching again!) September 1st, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    Darrell Rasner sure as h*** doesn’t deserve a spot in this rotation…and neither does sidney ponson but for some god aful reason Girardi keeps running them both out there every 5 days each!!

    Girardi is starting to sound like Bears coach, lovey smith..instead of “Rex is our quaterback!”…it’s “Sidney/Raz is in our rotation!”

  14. darkmoonfire September 1st, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    cos i am fairly sure you’d have scolded girardi had he done that.

    I don’t think Pete would have. Bottom line, Leyland was honest and to the point. Girardi has been repeatedly consistently neither. He lies and spins — no-one can respect that.

    I really wish Leyland was the Yankees manager, or our manager was half the man that Leyland is.

  15. you gotta have faith (yanks can make this month interesting) September 1st, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    GreenBeret7:
    the point is that we won, no matter how ugly, at this point in the season even if it does look to be over, we need to win to at least give it a run/try

  16. R-Tek September 1st, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    Cashman doesn’t want to bring up Hughes because he is afraid his psyche will be damaged if he gets shelled (so much for this off-the-charts mental makeup he was lauded for).

    No other reason to constantly throw out Ponson in meaningless September games when real parts of our future can get valuable experience facing big league hitters without the heat of a pennant race.

  17. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    So, Pete, you’d rather be summarily dismissed with a simplistic and patronizing answer? That’s okay?

    Whatever.

  18. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    Why is everyone concerned about a rotation spot five days from now? If there’s a better option, the option will start.

  19. Tucker September 1st, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    Cano made two diving stops today. That is two dives then he has attempted all year … So I’d say that’s a step in the right direction.

  20. Betsy September 1st, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    So, I’m not sure what Pete’s point is – that he’s rather go cover another team’s manager? Sounds like a good way to be a beat reporter for the Yankees.

    As to the really important stuff:

    From Chad:

    Have to get on the road, so I’m going to make this one brief.

    Phil Hughes was very happy with his offspeed stuff today — good curveball, good changeup, good cutter — but his fastball let him down a little bit today. Not because of velocity, he just wasn’t commanding it as well as he’d like, which is why he walked four.

    “Fastball was probably my worst pitch today, which is pretty unusual,” Hughes said. “But overall I felt good. I made pitches when I needed to.”

    Pitching coach Rafael Chaves echoed what Hughes said, and added that it was a lack of offspeed command that made those two starts earlier this month so ugly. He couldn’t throw his changeup or curveball for strikes, and that was forcing him to leave his fastball over the plate to make sure he hit the zone.

    “He was never able to keep hitters off balance in those two outings,” Chaves said.

    Of course I asked Hughes if he’d seen today’s Sidney Ponson start and thought about what that might mean for him. And of course Hughes answered without really saying much of anything. “You always want to pitch well wherever you are,” he said.

    Sounds good to me – except for the FB command, which will come as he continues to pitch steadily.

  21. Josh Johnson September 1st, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    Ponson staying in the rotation? I was thinking more like unemployment.

  22. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    And, not for nothin’ , but when the heck would Girardi ever be allowed to walk out of a 9-second post-game “press conference” and not get accolades for doing so. Puh-lease.

  23. Forntoso September 1st, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    The same people who are killing Girardi for not scolding his players in public are the same ones who will turn around and criticize him to no end if he does that, saying things like Torre would have kept it in house and Girardi is creating tension in the clubhouse and losing his players etc.

    Hypocrites.

  24. Tank September 1st, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    Ponson eats innings.

  25. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    You gotta have faith, I didn’t say anything about the quality of the win. Just making comments on the quality of the game coverage by the cream of sports media. Not necessarily all of them, but, face facts, the majority of the sports version of “The Fourth Estate” has definate agendas when it comes to impartial reporting.

  26. V September 1st, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Ponson is solid. He wins games.

  27. KING FELIX September 1st, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    edwar has fallen off the map. only a matter of time before a reliever with no fastball would be exposed.

    robertson too was awful.

    veras has staying power, so does bruney because they can throw the fastball 95+ so even when they miss, they can get away with it.

    the exception is britton.

  28. you gotta have faith (yanks can make this month interesting) September 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    oh, gotcha

  29. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    I’m sorry, and get accolades for doing so. I’m a little miffed here. I have basically been staying out of the whole thing – Girardi vs. the media. I understand they all have a job to do. But it is disingenuous to say that you’d prefer Girardi to give as flip an answer as Leyland did.

    And how ARE the Tigers doing this year? Especially with regard to where they were supposed to be?

    It’s a lot – A LOT – easier for any manager, player, GM, to be in a non-New York market. Not even comparable.

    Why Girardi gets absolutely no credit for refusing to throw his team under the bus, I will never understand.

    With regard to Ponson being in the rotation – hello? He may or may not be. Today he is. If something better comes along, he won’t be. And that’s how Girardi has operated all season. Why are people still surprised? He has to do post-games, but he does not have to give out information. Would it be easier? Yes. Sure, it would. But here we are in September having the same discussion about Girardi’s non-disclosure issues; about his protecting his players issue.

  30. BBFan September 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    “When twice asked about Robinson Cano’s sloppy defense, Girardi twice said, “I’m going to focus on the positives.””

    You and your media peers can try million times, but you will never succeed in geeting Girardi to bad mouth his players in public. You can write whatever you want unfairly like Girardi lied etc., but you will never succeed in getting under his skin. Girardi is a great and honorable guy, and it is sad that he has to put up with this nonsense from the media vultures. The sad part is the kids on the blog take clue from what you write.

  31. James (oh sweet jesus...pavano is pitching again!) September 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    GreenBeret7:

    I respectfully disagree with you. Joe G seems h*** bent on starting Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson..it really doesn’t matter if they are picthing well or not, or if there is a better option…he has a “trust” for them. That
    “trust” is killing this team!

  32. Forntoso September 1st, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    Has anyone noticed Hawkins?

    2 wins, 1 save
    11 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 3 BB, 17 K

  33. RockinDaBronx September 1st, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    I am amazed how unmedia savvy Girardi is, same boring post games. Um, uh, obviously, I mean, uh, ya know, tomorrow is a new day, I believe in my guys. It’s like Ground Hog day, same old excuses day in and day out. At least today was another check in the left hand column

  34. RalphieD September 1st, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    the same people who say that rasner and ponson dont deserve rotation spots are the same people who say that kennedy and hughes need to earn their spots…whos gonna take rasner and ponsons spot? moeller and ransom?? lol….other than aceves who they are using in the pen right now there are no other options

  35. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    Who would have started? Give me names. And don’t say Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy. They tried Kennedy – he’s not ready. And it seems clear they are belatedly deciding to take their time with Hughes. So, instead of Ponson who would you have started today? Instead of Rasner? Give names.

    If someone else were ready or able, someone else would be starting.

  36. COL 88 September 1st, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    How are they going to use Joba? As a long man or setup man or what?

  37. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    James, who are those better options? Igawa? Hughes? Kennedy? Maybe aceves starts in one game and Coke gets the other start. The only game on my mind is Tuesday’s game. Girardi is the manager and he’s the one that has to pay for the decision. I’m all for bypassing Rasner and Ponson, but, the question remains, “Who with”?

  38. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    And you would expect Girardi to say he has no faith in his team? Or he only has faith in some of his players? Or how about this: the season is over, we have no chance, this team has quit, we’re just gonna play out the string?

    Be real.

  39. Dave D September 1st, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    I actually think Isiah Thomas had the best postgame quotes.

    After losing by 35 to the Charlotte Bobcatats at home:

    “I thought my guys showed a lot of fight. We played some good defense, the bench contributed. We showed a lot of good things and we can build on this”.

  40. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    COL88, my guess would be “or what?”.

  41. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    GB7 -

    really lol!

  42. you gotta have faith (yanks can make this month interesting) September 1st, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    james,
    where are you getting this from, rasner WAS taken out of the rotation remember? Kenneday pitched that day to the angels and razz had to come in and save his butt

    sure joe wants to put quality pitchers out there everyday, who would you like to see in the rotation?

  43. COL 88 September 1st, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    Who exactly is Girardi going to replace Ponson/Rasner with? Cashman isin’t giving him anyone else. He is the one who has to DFA Ponson. Girardi can only go to war with what he has.

    The only reason Cashman won’t bring Hughes/IPK up is if he doesn’t want them to ruin their trade value.

  44. Clare September 1st, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    GB7,

    I’d like to see Hughes back up. He’s healthy, he’s had two good starts in a row – and really, how much worse than Ponson could he possibly be?

  45. James (oh sweet jesus...pavano is pitching again!) September 1st, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    RalphieD:

    I don’t think that ponson and rasner deserve rotation spots…but i don’t think that Hughes and Kennedy need to earn anything…they were given rotation spots at the begining of the season.so when they are healthy and ready to pitch they should pitch and i think it was really really unfair for them to pull Ian Kennedy after one bad start vs the best team in the AL but continue to run Darrell Rasner out there even though he gives up 4,5,6 runs a game and can’t pitch out of the 5th ining!

  46. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    Doreen, right now, with the bullpen, other than Rivera, Girardi needs to use Chamberlain (if he’s in the bullpen), when the game is on the line, whether it’s the 6th, 7th or 8th innings. If the game gets blown before the 8th or 9th innings, it doesn’t matter where Chamberlain pitches. This is not the time to have set spots in the bullpen.

  47. KING FELIX September 1st, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    the yankees are going to ruin joba by switching him from starter to reliever to starter back to reliever.

    the only way it can be rationalized is if he is pitching in long relief and gets his innings in. going back to maximum velocity and torque on his shoulder doesn’t seem like the brightest thing to do.

    then again, the organization hasn’t exactly shown they know how to handle young pitchers.

  48. Joey's Poodle September 1st, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Clare,

    Today Hughes had no control of his fastball. He walked four minor leaguers. What would major leaguers do to him? How would it benefit either the team or Hughes to do that up here instead of down there?

  49. BBFan September 1st, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Doreen,

    Not sure if it is real you or someone impersonating you, but those posts supporting Girardi are on target. Pete is just mindless in his constant ciritcism of Girardi and comes across as phony when he says he prefers what Leyland did basically telling them “get lost, I am our of here”. If Girardi did that they will be killing him days to come. As someone said before hyprocrites.

  50. Clare September 1st, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    BBFan,

    Totally agree. Not to mention no faux outrage about the lack of credibility and accountability because Leyland didn’t mention the 3 errors.

  51. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    GB7 -

    I just thought your answer was funny, but, of course, until they are eliminated, they’re flying by the seat of their pants. I hope Chamberlain doesn’t disappoint.

    Frankly, if the starters could be counted on for 6-plus innings, the bullpen would be fine. But they’re overused and overexposed.

    I will be a little disappointed if Kennedy and/or Hughes is brought up. UNLESS the Yankees are soclosetogettingthewildcard that they’re truly pulling out all the stops.

  52. Jamal G. September 1st, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    Pete, why are you quick to post one of your updates on how A-Rod and Cano are struggling, but when they have great days (A-Rod w/ four RBI, Cano w/ a Web Gem prior to his Error and a couple damn good defensive plays on Sunday) you fail to mention it?

    Thought you said this blog was all about consistency. I didn’t see you making these smart-allelic comments about Cano being compared to Roberto Alomar when he made about four highlight reel, defensive plays over these past two games.

  53. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    Clare, I understand you wanting Hughes back up, but, clearly, he has still a few control issues. The stuff is there, as shown by the 8 strikeouts today in 5+ innings, but, he also walked 4. Another start or two won’t hurt him. Kennedy seems to have the same issue. Mainly, though, Kennedy, even in the minors is throwing too many pitches through his 5-6 inning starts. Not so many balls and walks, but, still having so many fouls hit that it jacks up his pitch counts past 100 every time. Still does not have a good, early put away pitch.

  54. James (oh sweet jesus...pavano is pitching again!) September 1st, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    I as a yankee fan can live with Ponson pitching…he’s a vet and a gamer and knows how to win…

    But how can you justify having Darrell Rasner out there instead of a Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy?

    and i don’t want to hear that “they aren’t ready” cra.p…if they weren’t “ready”..they shouldn’t have been in the starting rotation at the begining of the year!

  55. Indio CT September 1st, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    There is a reason Hughes isn’t up.

    It’s because he’s not that good.

  56. James (oh sweet jesus...pavano is pitching again!) September 1st, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    Indio CT:

    Is he better than Darrell Rasner or Can he be better than Darrell Rasner?

  57. Pinstripes September 1st, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    If Pavano can consistently pitch the way he did in his last 2 starts and build on that, I’d be open to extending a 1 year deal to him. (Depending on how much money he is looking for of course).

    With our extreme need for experienced starting pitchers, I don’t think a 1 year deal for an established (although frequently injured) major league pitcher would be a bad idea. If we’re willing to repeatedly run Ponson and Rasner out there all year, there’s no reason why Pavano wouldn’t be worth the gamble of a 1 year deal. When a guy misses 3 years to injuries, don’t you think that there’s a good chance he’d have 1 healthy year? Especially if it is a contract year :)

    I think I’d be willing to commit 6-8 mil to Pavano for a year of service.

    I know I’m going to be chewed up and spit out for this one, but either way….

    Wang
    CC/Sheets/Burnett (or some other top free agent starter)
    Joba
    Mussina
    Pavano

    And Hughes waiting in AAA in case things go wrong with one of them.

  58. dan 771 September 1st, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    indio you are probably right. they probably don’t want hughes to hurt his trade value by getting bombed up here

  59. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    In the beginning of the year, it was assumed that the offense (which was projected to score almost 1,000 runs, by the way) would cover any problems Hughes and/or Kennedy might have adjusting to the majors. I don’t believe for a second that the Yankees felt either of them was 100% ready, but they took a calculated risk which turned out to be quite wrong. Why compound that error in judgment now? Especially now, when the offense has been truly exposed over the course of the season as being dismally inconsistent? They’re not covering for anyone.

  60. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Wow imagine if Joe had a conference like that, he’d be roasted!!!!

  61. mel September 1st, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Doreen,

    I’m impressed with your writing. I can feel your anger.

    Everything you said was spot on.

    Leyland gets away with it, because he’s old school. The Real Marlboro Man. He’s just happy that the Yankees are having the season they are. Because his team was the team to beat. But everyone’s talking about the Yankees (what’s new?) instead of how his high payroll/big moves club has been a total abomination.

    Girardi does that and walks out, then he’s being flip. He got off to a bad start with the media and he’s darned if he does, darned if he doesn’t. Shoot, I hate having to watch my language!

  62. LLIME September 1st, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    I am not sure if Hughes is an upgrade over Rasner.
    Rasner is usually good for 6 innings then falls apart. And every now and then he’ll get shelled. But usually he guts out 5-6 innings of 2-4 run ball.

    Not sure if Hughes can do that.

  63. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    doreen, I know what you meant, and, perhaps my response to his question was a little flip, but, anybody who says they know what situation Girardi will use him in is lying. It’s always guessing, and, unless you’re a so-called or self-appointed insider, it’s ridiculous to say you know. The inside info I have is what I’m having for supper, and even that’s up in the air.

  64. steve September 1st, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    detroit was a very disappointing team this season. i could see them making a big run at sabathia or an even bigger run at k-rod.

  65. Pinstripes September 1st, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    James,

    “I as a yankee fan can live with Ponson pitching…he’s a vet and a gamer and knows how to win…”

    Really? He does? 1 win in the last 7 starts….if thats a guy you consider a winner, define a loser.

  66. mel September 1st, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    Baseball is a day to day operation where things are subject to change. There’s no use arguing with anyone who doesn’t understand that.

  67. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Okay, I guess we have to go through this again. Joe can’t just say Ponson is out of the rotation, he has to talk to his baseball people. I doubt Ponson will make another start, he’ll either just be taken out, or he’ll haven an ‘injury’.

    “hopefully it doesn’t affect his next turn”, that says it all.

  68. stuart September 1st, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Peter doesnot like Girardi it is not real complicated.

    Know Girardi’s pres conferences are boring.

    What is he suppose to say/ The truth, Ponson sucks,rasner stinks also.

    Be real. Girardi was not hired to make the reporters life more enjoyable he was hired to hep the team win, not real complicated…

  69. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 6:59 pm

    James, having a battle of wits/intelligence with Indio is like fighting an armless man. He’s a troll.

  70. mel September 1st, 2008 at 6:59 pm

    jennifer,

    Why is it so hard for people to understand spin?

  71. mel September 1st, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    Is Rutgers this bad or is Fresno going to be good this year?

  72. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    BBFan

    Agreed 1000%!!

  73. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    mel -

    You know, as far as Pete and his relationship with Girardi goes, well, it’s Pete’s blog and I respect the work he does on the whole. But this last was just too much for me. Girardi’s not perfect by a longshot, but I feel like it’s a loose tooth that keeps being played with. Leave it alone, already.

    And you are so right. If Leyland was in New York with his team underperforming as it has, with his star pitcher (Verlander) performing so poorly, and after making that mega-trade that was supposed to catapult them out of the stratosphere and into an undefeated season capped by a WS sweep, he’d be buried in his cigarette butts. But, he’s Jim Leyland.

    I get that you earn respect over time and Girardi hasn’t put in enough time. But why does he get crucified? No, you can’t use injuries as an excuse, but I don’t recall Girardi himself ever doing so. Hank Steinbrenner did, but I don’t recall Girardi ever saying anything different than you go with the guys you have, you prepare and you try to execute. So, maybe it gets boring listening to the same thing everyday. Oh. Okay. Guess it’s better if a manager at least has the decency to not answer your questions by going off on a tangent telling entertaining stories of the old days and players, or giving a garbage disrespectful answer. Sorry. I guess no one gave Girardi the memo.

  74. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    I also love how people forget Joe T’s press conferences. It was always you have to tip your cap. ALL THE TIME!! Go back and listen. Refresh your memories!!

  75. BBFan September 1st, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Speaking of media, it is unfair to lump every one together. I try to read every NY area news paper sports columns. None of them write as negatively as Pete does here on the blog. Yes, occasionally, they write something disagreeing with Girardi, but that is normal. Pete himself does not go that negative in his newspaper columns. I still believe Pete recognizes there are many Girardi supporters here and it is one way to get them to react and increase the posts and traffic to the blog, which in turn is profitable to his newspaper and him.

  76. BBFan September 1st, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    ….Same with ARod negative posts as well.

  77. Bender September 1st, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    Wow once again Pete demonstrates his ridiculous bias against Girardi. How many times have you torn into him after a short and angry press conference lacking any real info?

  78. Tom H September 1st, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    Pete- per your comment above, should we take from that you think girardi is not a respected manager? I love leyland, he has a ring and is a real throwback, but do you think the people in colorado loved those 9 second press conferences when he gave up on that ballclub?

  79. Pinstripes September 1st, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    BBFan,

    You hit the nail right on the head. Controversy spawns conversation. Conversation spawns hits on the blog.

  80. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    mel -

    My husband says Rutgers is an okay team (about the same as last season), but that Fresno is gonna be pretty good this season.

  81. S.A.-Can the Yanks win a game? Please? This offense is still offensive. September 1st, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    I don’t know if Rutgers is this bad, but this is not good! I remember my one and only Rutgers game when I was a freshman. It was against Miami and I think the game was on ESPN that night. That was one butt whoopin!

  82. Nick in SF September 1st, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    Ponson is mediocre but he’s actually pitched well a few times. Hughes hasn’t once this year. So how much worse could it get? Worse enough.

  83. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    Phil Coke was shocked about that many people watching him, wait till he gets back to yankee stadium! Sounded like a very genuine guy. Loved listening to his interview.

  84. James (oh sweet jesus...pavano is pitching again!) September 1st, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    Darrell Rasner’s August starts..

    8/3 vs LAA: 4IP 7H 5ER 3BB 1K
    8/8 vs LAA: 4.1IP 5H 3ER 0BB 5K
    8/13 vs MIN: 5IP 4H 3R 2ER 1BB 4kK
    8/19 vs TOR: 6.2IP 3H 1ER 1BB 3K
    8/24 vs BAL: 3.1IP 8H 5R 3ER(2HR) 2BB 2K
    8/30 vs TOR: 6IP 6H 5R 4ER 1BB 1K

    The Yankees overall were 2-4 in games started by Darrell Rasner last month.

  85. Pinstripes September 1st, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    Doreen,

    Rice was a workhorse for Rutgers the last couple years. He’s going to be difficult to replace.

  86. mel September 1st, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    Doreen,

    Thanks. Does the hubby have any stock tips or lotto numbers? :)

  87. Showalter '09 September 1st, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    I’m not even a Girardi fan (see screen name), but its pretty pathetic how biased Pete is against him for no reason. Some of his posts are just sad to see how much Pete is reaching and nitpicking to find faults with Joe.

    No wonder players hate playing in NY and only come here if you overpay and managers/execs can’t wait to get out of here.

  88. Nick in SF September 1st, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    And Rutgers was a slight favorite going into this game.

  89. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    mel -

    Sadly, no. ;(

  90. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    BBFan

    agreed, you hit the nail on the head. You have some of us supporting Joe and arguing with all the haters!!

  91. mel September 1st, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    Baltimore with the quick score. Byrd on the mound. Where’s RJ?

  92. Dave D September 1st, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    Rasner is fine as long as you don’t push him. He is what he is. A capable fill in who has already made 20 starts for us.

    His last game is a perfect example, you got 6 innings out of him, go to the pen. But we pushed him and he imploded.

    Same thing in Toronto, he went 6 IP of scoreless ball then gave up the HR in the 7th.

    He has already far surpassed what was asked of him for a guy who isin’t very good.

  93. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    I think Joe keeps things in house. You aren’t going to see him come out and say Cano plays like garbage!, or that Ponson was so awful today and we are benching him. He has to talk to Cash before making a call like that.

  94. you gotta have faith (yanks can make this month interesting) September 1st, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    if anyone was watching the postgame something was said that actually gave me a slimmer of hope

    if the yankees gain at least 1 game per week on the red sox, the last series at fenway might actually mean something

    if they get themselves together, anything can happen

  95. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    Well it doesn’t look like Randy will get 300 this year, can’t say that i am sad.

  96. S.A.-Can the Yanks win a game? Please? This offense is still offensive. September 1st, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    Maybe Girardi stole Pete’s cookies or something? :P

    I think whatever Joe does/say he won’t win any points in the media..coughPetercough

  97. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    Dave D -

    20 starts???? Wow – where did the season go? I agree. Rasner really can’t go past 6. In fact 6 is almost pushing it, no? He’s had some really bad starts, but has performed admirably overall. Not only that, he is accountable and faces the music win or lose.

  98. Rishi September 1st, 2008 at 7:18 pm

    someone show garrett olsen the strike zone – he lost it

  99. E-Man September 1st, 2008 at 7:18 pm

    What a great win! It’s been a while since we’ve SWEPT a team!

    Great Job Girardi!

  100. BBFan September 1st, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    Now the goal for the team should be to gain atleast four games on SOX before the season ending series. Then that series means a lot and any thing can happen, including revisiting 1977. Also, it is important that they win thier games against White Sox, otherwise both Sox and Yankees will be left out and Twins & ChiSox will make it to the playoffs.

  101. you gotta have faith (yanks can make this month interesting) September 1st, 2008 at 7:21 pm

    BBFan,
    you took the words right out of my post lol :)

  102. mel September 1st, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    Rishi,

    3 walks w/ a K chaser.

  103. vin September 1st, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    “He’s had some really bad starts, but has performed admirably overall. Not only that, he is accountable and faces the music win or lose.”

    I agree – he’s done a great job for a #7 starter – which is what he was coming in to the season. Most #7′s don’t start 20 games (19 actually) a year, and you know you’re in trouble if they do. Some people here need to remember that.

  104. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    They’ve been saying for years that the wild card would come out of the central division. Well, if the Yankees can’t do it, I’m all for the central division. Anyone, absolutely anyone but the Red Sox.

  105. Joey's Poodle September 1st, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    What I don’t get is why all the people who get so defensive about any criticism of Girardi don’t defend him instead of attacking his critics?

    Just give a brief rational description of the strong points he has displayed over the season and how they outweigh any weaknesses he’s shown.

    In other words, show that you have a counter-argument instead of just getting into a hissy.

    Then there could be a meaningful discussion.

  106. Nick in SF September 1st, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Yes, looking at the macro picture, the goal for the team (and for us to talk about) should be to win X number of games by Y date in order to maintain a mathematical chance to make the postseason.

    But the real goal is just to win tomorrow and THEN worry about the day after.

  107. sw September 1st, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Rasner nearly always keeps the team in the game when he pitches, and his stats are better than Ponson’s. Ponson has pitched a few gems, but when he doesn’t have it, he’s reaaallly bad (ERA in losses this year, 10.41).

    Girardi needs to figure out how far he can push his starters. He’s done a great job with Moose, but a lot of times he pushes Ras or especially Andy just one too many innings.

  108. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Joey- if you read, you’ll see counter points to criticism of Joe. Not that difficult.

  109. Rishi September 1st, 2008 at 7:27 pm

    mel – he was killing me…just got back from a sleepless weekend away (and following a sucky game on Saturday on my cell phone) and all I want to see is Boston lose :) for a variety of reasons including the obvious

    (also want to see the Mets lose since the Met fan family members were giving me a hard time all weekend long!)

  110. Nick in SF September 1st, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    And vin, you articulate that point well.

    The same goes for Ponson. Like I said before, the problem isn’t that he’s a mediocre pitcher and that fact isn’t the reason the Yanks are where they are. The problem is that he’s had to start so many games and that fact is *part* of the reason the Yanks are where they are.

  111. James (oh sweet jesus...pavano is pitching again!) September 1st, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    Doreen:

    I understand what you’re saying about raz..but i wouldn’t say “admirably”..5-9 with a 5.08ERA isn’t pitching “admirably” in my book….but that’s my opinion.

  112. kasey September 1st, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    “Girardi was not hired to make the reporters life more enjoyable he was hired to hep the team win, not real complicated…”

    and what a job he’s done!

  113. Yankee2123 September 1st, 2008 at 7:30 pm

    A mediocre Yankees team beat a dismal Tigers team. This next series in Tampa will put the final seal on the Yankees season, and it don’t look pretty.

  114. mel September 1st, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    Back to back HR for Boston. Oh boy.

  115. BBFan September 1st, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    “Then there could be a meaningful discussion.”

    Joey,

    We had similar discussion a few days back.
    You can not have a meaningful dicussion if what is writeen is a bunch of bull. Read again what Peter wrote. When normally very calm and balanced Doreen quesitons what is written, there is utterly something wrong.

    Now let me give you some Girardi strengths:

    1. Giradi manages his bullpen much better than his predecessor.

    2. Girardis does not throw his players under the bus, just like his predecessor did with ARod.

    3. In spite of all the injuries and decimated starting rotation, he kept the team in contention for a playoff spot.

    I can go on and on…..

  116. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    Rishi

    Better than watching it. I went to yesterdays game. Although after the game I went downtown to drown my sorrows.

  117. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    And, in slides Mr. Sunshine to regale all with his wisdom and deep insight.

  118. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    bbfan

    2. Girardis does not throw his players under the bus, just like his predecessor did with ARod.
    ________________
    Uh OH! you didn’t just say that did you?

    I got called out on a comment like that. LOL I was questioned when he called him out.

  119. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    “Really? He does? 1 win in the last 7 starts….if thats a guy you consider a winner, define a loser.”

    Some of the comments here are so silly and some are hilarious. I remember the last time that almost the entire forum pilloried me because I said that I was sure Ponson was going to get his next start despite all the crying and puking on the forum – and he got his next start. One thing I’ve learned for certain – not many people here understand the thinking of the Yankeee organization. When will you learn that it doesn’t matter that you don’t like a certain thing???? It’s hysterical!

    In Ponson’s last 7 games he also has 3 no decisions. And if you look at the two games before those, has one win and one no decision. And in those he gave up 3 ER and 1 ER. Ponson’s best games have been against Tampa, the Angels, and Minny.

    If the Yankee organization decides they have another pitcher they want to try in his place, so be it. But please at least be alert enough to realize the guy has had some tremendous games for the Yankees and has had the bullpen either blow them, or he left with the score tied. I realize he has had some not-so-great games but so has Andy Pettitte.

    My point is that Ponson has given the Yankees a heck of a lot this season and he has walked out of games that he should have won easily not winning because he has not gotten run support.

    GB – I am entirely aware that the only reason that Sidney is in the Yankee rotation is because they were desperate. I also realize that they feel they have gotten a lot more from him than they knew they would get, and unlike some posters here, they have the ability to see beyond the bad games to the very good games.

    But if nothing else, this is the “what have you done for me lately” forum, demanding immediate results and dismissing players who don’t meet their expecations, actually sometimes on a game to game basis. If any of these people were GMs, the Yankees would probably be playing without any of the people they started with, except for Mussina – though he was dismissed quickly by the forum proletariate as I remember – and Mo.

    My loyalty is not blind but it is perservering. The only player I was ready to be without early on this season was Ian Kennedy, and thankfully the organization got rid of him. Otherwise I am always happy to understand that they are not machines, and I look for what they have to offer in addition to what they have already offered.

  120. Nick in SF September 1st, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    Hoping the Baltimore beats the Sox in Fenway so that we’d only be 6 games back instead of 7… such is the life of a Yankee fan on September 1, 2008.

    Our hope: Birds > Byrd.

  121. Rishi September 1st, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    Jennifer – I’m so sorry…

    I’m already nervous – my last game is 9/14 v. TB – they have won every game I’ve been to this year (8), I would hate for my last experience at the old YS to be a loss.

  122. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    James -

    I think we’d just differ on the words we choose. He could have won a couple of those games with a little run support, but it is what it is. He wasn’t expected to smell the rotation in the beginning of the season.

    The rotation was going to be Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Chamberlain and #5. By the time Chamberlain was a consistent part of the rotation, Wang was gone. Then Chamberlain was gone. It’s been brutal. Wang, Pettitte, Moose & Joba would have been awesome – it would not have been far-fetched and pipedreaming to think about running off a 10-game winning streak. But a shaky Pettitte, Moose, #3, #4 and #5?

  123. DFox September 1st, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    I’m just curious, what answer does Pete want when people ask questions like “about Robinson Cano’s sloppy defense”. That’s not a question. It’s something Girardi SHOULD respond to with something like “That’s a stupid question. How do I know what Robinson Cano is thinking?”

    What is he supposed to say? That Cano made a bad play? We need him to tell us that? I’m not really sure what Pete wants him to say.

  124. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    Sux game tied 2-2. All deep balls so far.

    GO ORIOLES!

  125. YankeeBaseball September 1st, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    The reason they’re starting Ponson and Rasner is this season is DONE and they don’t want to risk injury to Hughes/Kennedy or perhaps diminish their confidence & trade value if they do poorly.

    I personally think he’s garbagio but why not give Igawa another shot? You folks may not realize he’s second in the International league in wins at 14-6 with a respectable 3.45 era. If you start him and he zucks (again), no harm done.

  126. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    Rishi

    As of right now, my next and last game is 9/20. Unless I am invited to another game, I won’t be going to another game.

  127. Josh September 1st, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    Tied game for the Sox – another HR for the birds.

  128. mel September 1st, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Nick,

    These birds are flying out of the park like those things in badminton you can’t post here. 2-2

  129. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    BBB, explain what bullpen Torre had to manage in his last 5 years, and then list all of the rotation injuries and patched in starters in each of the years past 2003.t

  130. James (oh sweet jesus...pavano is pitching again!) September 1st, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    “3. In spite of all the injuries and decimated starting rotation, he kept the team in contention for a playoff spot.”

    That is true,BBFan…BUT…Joe Torre didn’t only keep the team in playoff contention…he always made the playoffs…ALWAYS…no matter what was happening..good or bad!!

  131. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    Lest we forget, after Ian Kennedy spit the bit, Joe said that Kennedy was in the rotation as of now. And what happened? He spoke to Cash, and Kennedy was sent down.

  132. Rishi September 1st, 2008 at 7:44 pm

    Man – there has to be something more interesting to talk about than “Joe T v. Joe G” round 937493039.

    It’s not going to make any kind of difference…

    How about Phil (almost a Pirate) Coke, the return of Joba/Giese, can Moose get to 20-wins…

  133. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 7:44 pm

    I think Igawa is no longer on the 40-man? Just checked – he’s not on the 40-man roster. I don’t know but they’d have to take someone else off in order to put him back, right?

  134. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    jennifer – yes with Kennedy he said “as of now”. I heard today’s postgame. He said Sidney was getting his next start. Is it so hard for you to accept that might be exactly what happens?

  135. Yankee2123 September 1st, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    I think this is Andy’s last year in Pinstripes. Anyone agree?

  136. James (oh sweet jesus...pavano is pitching again!) September 1st, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    Doreen:

    Correct

  137. Nick in SF September 1st, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    This isn’t rocket science; Rasner and Ponson will keep starting until there’s a better option and/or the season and truly been conceded. Or… as proof the season has been conceded. Hmmm.

    Let’s just say that we’re in trouble if we see (m)any more starts from either of them.

    And then there’s Pavano.

  138. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    trisha, that response from me in the other thread wasn’t a knock o you or Ponson, as much as it was just stating that it will be good when NYY doesn’t have to depend on the #8-9-10 starting pitchers in the system for 50-60% of the season starts. Ponson did what he did. He was either better than expected in his starts, or what was most likely expected by most. Same with Rasner. NYY hasn’t had a real rotation or bullpen since at least the end of 2003.

  139. BBFan September 1st, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    To make it clearer:

    2. Girardi does not throw his players under the bus, unlike his predecessor did with ARod.

  140. S.A.-Taking it one game at a time. This offense is still offensive. September 1st, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    I think this is Andy’s last year in Pinstripes. Anyone agree?

    I agree

  141. mel September 1st, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    What is so hard to understand? Times are different now. Parity, aided by the Steinbrenner Widows and Children’s Fund, is making it more difficult for us. The past 2 years, even Tampa has played us tough foreshadowing their historic run.

    It’s not a 1 or 2 horse race anymore. The east is tough and we have to get tough if we’re going to emerge from it from now on.

  142. vin September 1st, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    There’s no way Andy goes out a loser. He’ll be back to pitch in the new stadium, as will Moose. And after this year (plus the last 4 years) my guess is that Cash is going to do everything in his power to accumulate as much pitching “inventory” as possible – hopefully CC.

  143. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    And with Kennedy he also said that he would be talking to Brian Cashman and decisions would be made but as of then Kennedy was getting the start.

    He didn’t say anything like that about Ponson, other than to say he hoped his hand was okay (paraphrase). Now if you’re into finding spies behind every tree then maybe you can say that it was his way of smokescreening. But I have also heard Girardi say (of other players) that they would continue to evaluate the situation.

    If Ponson never gets another start I think he has already given the Yankees more than anyone probably hoped for and with a little bit of offensive support the guy could probably have gotten a few more wins under his belt.

    Now this is my guess. They still think they’re in it and they are still playing for the postseason, so unless one of their current starters really gets rocked badly without reason (i.e., not after getting hit by a ball) I would think you’re going to see them trotting out the same guys because the only way you start a rookie when you are fighting from behind is when you are without a starter period.

    Just my opinion.

    As everyone has aptly pointed out time and again, the only reason we have Rasner and Ponson in the starting rotation is because the guys who were supposed to be there are no longer there.

  144. Brent September 1st, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    Ponson eats innings.

    Ponson eats donuts.

  145. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    Mel, I’m stunned. In all of my life (all 19 years or since 1948) in never thought I’d see the word “foreshadowing” used on a sports board/blog. Impressive word usage.

  146. BBFan September 1st, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    “That is true,BBFan…BUT…Joe Torre didn’t only keep the team in playoff contention…he always made the playoffs…ALWAYS…no matter what was happening..good or bad!!”

    Please note that I was not comparing Joe T and Joe G in that point. I believe the adversity experienced by the team this year is much worse than the last few years. In addition, no one is having a career year like ARod and Posada had last year. Without ARod’s year, there was no way Yanks would have made the playoffs last year.

  147. you gotta have faith (yanks can make this month interesting) September 1st, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    im a little worried about the whole CC thing
    he’d be great but the way the dumb brewers are using him, im wont be surprised if his arm falls off before we ever get to use to :( lol

  148. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    “…as much as it was just stating that it will be good when NYY doesn’t have to depend on the #8-9-10 starting pitchers in the system for 50-60% of the season starts.”

    GB I couldn’t agree more!

  149. sw September 1st, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Andy will be back. 15 win/200 IP pitchers (which Andy will be by the end of the year and has been nearly every year) don’t grow on trees. He might have to take a minor paycut in arbitration though.

  150. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 1st, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    I guarantee you Pettitte will not be back next season. Mark it down.

  151. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    ***1949*** I never thought***
    a new record…not knowing one’s age and typing erors. I’m so honored to be among the few.

  152. Hitman September 1st, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    Joe Joe Joe….Sidney is staying in the rotation? You must be joking with the writers. Now that’s what you call protecting your players under all circumstances. How was Cano today btw? Peter surely you could have gotten him to elaborate some more on that one. lol.

  153. mel September 1st, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    Pettitte will be back if he wants to.

    He saved the Yankees bacon last year and expressed the desire to pitch in the new stadium if healthy.

    He’s the perfect innings eater. And in reality is our #4 pitcher who’s forced to be the #2 because of injuries to Wang and Joba.

    Keep it in perspective, guys.

  154. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    What’s even wilder, Mel, is Moose is #1 and right now as we type Carl Pavano, because he’s won 2 in a row is the de facto #3. Whoa.

  155. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Varitek run production thank is finally having a season with more run production than Posada for the first time in his career and it took a season ending injury to do it. Impressive for Captain Clown.

  156. mel September 1st, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Doreen,

    Yes, this is bizaaro season. I’m actually looking forward to Carl’s next start.

  157. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Doreen, and Pavano has looked REALLY good in his outings. How lucky are we! And with Joba and Giese coming back, well our pitching will be that much stronger.

    It ain’t over til it’s over.

  158. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut September 1st, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    Remember the rumors about Pettitte possibly missing a start due to being tired? It could be he is feeling a bit worn out but knowing the pitching problems gutting it out instead.

    There is a chance he gets one more year.

    Joba won’t be able to pitch many innings next year, if he is even in the rotation. While I hope he is, as I think he can be a real ace for the Yankees, with all this time off for shoulder soreness, I wonder if the Yankees are concerned about him holding up.

  159. CT September 1st, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    What I want to know is what Girardi did to Pete for him to be critical of Girardi all the time..

  160. DFox September 1st, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    It’s really too bad about the Joba back to the pen thing… Even if they could somehow squeeze one more start out of him it could mean the season. If somehow the Yankees can make a run, and you need 1 guy to start a game against Boston with the season on the line, it’s him.

    I think it’s a trick. They’ll secretly be building him back up, and if making the playoffs comes down to a game against Boston, Sidney Ponson will be the announced starter, and at game time Joba will walk out. That would be an amazing way to end the season.

  161. AZ Four September 1st, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    If Mussina wants a 2 yr deal, I could see them bringing Andy back instead.

    A lot will depend on what happens with CC. If we don’t sign him, then we may not have any choice other to bring both back. Ideally, you want Hughes to start the season in AAA because Joba needs to be protected innings=wise. Can’t have Hughes AND Joba in the same rotation with the innings limits.

    I’m actually not sure what our course of action will be if we don’t sign CC, it will be interesting to see.

  162. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Bizarro for sure!

  163. Vin September 1st, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    We need to let Hughes loose next year, if he is in the rotation. No innings limits, we should let him just pitch like the Mets are doing with Pelfrey. Joba on the otherhand, needs to be conserved more and should be on the IP limit.

  164. vinny-b (place Arod on irrevocable waivers) September 1st, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    SJ44: checked your earlier posts. Sorry, the most dissapointing player this year, is Alex Rodriguez. Not Cano. I respect you. However, have noticed you continue to give arod a free pass.

    A person on this board, who have watched baseball for 40 years, once said: “In all my years of watching baseball, i’ve never seen a all-star level player, have so little to do with his team’s success (or lacktherof), as arod does.” Right on the money.

  165. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    I have no idea what the Yankees will do. I wouldn’t mind seeing Pettitte go away for good. I do want Moose back.

  166. 86w183 September 1st, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    Is it just me or is a debate about whether you’d rather have Ponson or Rasner in the rotation kinda like debating which of the Golden Girls you’d rather date?

  167. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    “Is it just me or is a debate about whether you’d rather have Ponson or Rasner in the rotation kinda like debating which of the Golden Girls you’d rather date?”

    It might be if that was the debate. I thought it was more about Moose or Pettitte? Have I missed a lot of the posts – or have you?

  168. vin September 1st, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    Looks like my captial V doppelganger is here… welcome.

  169. vin September 1st, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    “Is it just me or is a debate about whether you’d rather have Ponson or Rasner in the rotation kinda like debating which of the Golden Girls you’d rather date?”

    Blanche… just sayin’

  170. R-Tek September 1st, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    Why didn’t Cashman pick up Bird? He is dominating for Boston.

  171. mel September 1st, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    Trisha,

    And last year everyone said that wanted Moose to go away. Forever. Permanently. Pettitte’s stink doesn’t even approach the stench that Moose had last year.

    I’m not ready to toss Andy aside like a piece of rubbish. There’s not even a question in my mind. I think the Yankees kind of, sort of, like Andy, too.

  172. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    Yahoo 3-2 O’s!

    Go O’s!!!

  173. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    Mel that’s why I said I had no idea which way the organization would go. I think they like Andy too. A lot.

    I wasn’t ready to deep six Moose last season, but that’s just me.

  174. DFox September 1st, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    Thank god Baltimore showed up tonight.

  175. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    Byrd getting spanked a little. Hope it lasts.

  176. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    “Why didn’t Cashman pick up Bird? He is dominating for Boston.”

    Hopefully you jinxed him.

    :)

  177. sw September 1st, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    Andy wins his next three starts and everyone will change their tune.

  178. vin September 1st, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    “Why didn’t Cashman pick up Bird? He is dominating for Boston.”

    I wanted Cash to pick him up before he signed with Cleveland… I’ve always had an affinity for completely average major league pitchers… mostly because they’re better than the below average ML pitchers we’ve had to throw out there for the past few years. But picking him up this year would be a waste of paperwork.

  179. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    “Andy wins his next three starts and everyone will change their tune.”

    A distinct possibility.

  180. DFox September 1st, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    Byrd falling apart.

  181. mel September 1st, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    Trisha,

    Just responding to your “I wouldn’t mind seeing Pettitte go away for good.” comment.

    And I was one of the ones who wanted Moose gone. More because he was a butt than because he couldn’t get out of the second inning in the second half of the season. I was wrong, though, and I’ve said so many times.

  182. mel September 1st, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    trisha,

    lol. I think R-Tek was being sarcastic.

    Kind of like, “Why didn’t the Yankees pick up Gagne?”

  183. R-Tek September 1st, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    I would actually let Mussina walk and take the picks and bring back Andy.

    Draft picks + 1 yr of Andy > Mussina and no draft picks.

    It’s not like Mussina is going to repeat this dominance next season anyway.

  184. DFox September 1st, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    Damn, the Byrd escaped the cage, but BARELY.

  185. Ford Motor Company September 1st, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    Keep Ponson! Anybody other than Hughes or Kennedy. Please Brian Cashman!

  186. trisha - I am a Sidney supporter and also believe Arod will start to hit. September 1st, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    “It’s not like Mussina is going to repeat this dominance next season anyway.”

    I’m not so sure about that.

  187. Joey's Poodle September 1st, 2008 at 8:31 pm

    When someone says after three items “I could go on and on” you have to assume they have nothing of significance left to add. I take it most others agree that Girardi’s strengths have been managing the bullpen, not throwing players under the bus, and keeping the team ‘in contention’ (if that’s what they are). If someone mentioned other strengths I’m sorry, but I missed it, so I guess these are the ones most people here agree on and consider important.

    Personally I do think there is more to add: that he’s smart, young, energetic, ambitious, and so far able to get along with ownership (no small factor in New York).

    Those are significant strengths, and along with the three mentioned above they make a considerable list. If Pete or other critics mentioned those areas as weaknesses I would pipe up in disagreement.

    On the other hand TO ME it is not a crime to notice that Girardi also has several areas where improvement is definitely needed. Since I have mentioned them before it doesn’t seem imperative to got through all that now, but not handling the press well does feature on the list.

    Why is it not okay to recognize that being boring, evasive and too-obviously devious with the guys/gals on the beat represents a weakness? Why is it surprising that Pete and other reporters get aggravated? Personally I think it’s trivial in comparison with other areas Girardi needs to work on, and that sports reporters would do better to dwell more on managerial flaws that affect the team and less on things that affect them, but hey, we’re all human. And the more time they spend revealing their own triviality by critiquing trivia instead of significant managerial problems, the worse they look and the easier Girardi gets off.

    So Girardi fans who don’t want his weaker areas shown up should be glad, I guess, that reporters are so easily distracted.

    There’s not that much else to be glad of right now.

  188. Doreen (♫NotDeadYet♫) September 1st, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    I don’t think it’s fair to say that people who generally are fine with Girardi don’t see his faults. I think there is definitely room for growth. I also don’t believe that people who support Girardi would object to having his mistakes pointed out, or to have his in-game strategy questioned. This just feels different. Feels like piling on and picking at an open wound. And there is almost no balance. No kudos for things that are positive. But even with that, this is Pete’s blog and it’s a darn good one.

  189. mel September 1st, 2008 at 8:44 pm

    Joey’s Poodle,

    I can only speak for myself here. But when I defend a player, manager, or GM it’s not because I’m a Cano fan, Girardi fan, or Cashman fan. It’s because I think they’ve gone a pretty good job despite having faults. Nobody’s perfect, yet instead of looking at the good that certain Yankees do, people here fixate on one flaw or incident and ride it like mechanical bull. They get knocked down with logic, but they get right back on the bull and keep riding that thing. In their eyes, the grass is always greener underneath the player, manager, or GM of some other club.

    Ra

  190. vinny-b (place Arod on irrevocable waivers) September 1st, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    Girardi is the man.

    get off him.

  191. vin September 1st, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    ““It’s not like Mussina is going to repeat this dominance next season anyway.”

    I’m not so sure about that.”

    I agree, Trisha… it’s not like he’s doing it with a rejuvinated fastball that may or may not be there next year. So long as he can continue to control his breaking ball, I don’t see why he can’t be solid next year.

  192. vin September 1st, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    Let’s face it…

    If Wang and Posada stayed healthy, Melky and Cano didn’t fall off the map, and Hughes or Kennedy was healthy and league average, then this is probably a playoff team and Girardi would be beloved here.

  193. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    NYY could have dealt with the rotation injuries or the offensive slumps, but, not both. No team in baseball could have done that.

  194. hank hal September 1st, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    If we don’t get CC, just bring back Ponson.

  195. vinny-b (place Arod on irrevocable waivers) September 1st, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    “vin
    September 1st, 2008 at 8:51 pm
    Let’s face it…

    If Wang and Posada stayed healthy, Melky and Cano didn’t fall off the map, and Hughes or Kennedy was healthy and league average, then this is probably a playoff team and Girardi would be beloved here”

    never mind even that. If arod was capable of hitting over .150 with runners in scoring position, we get by with the wild card. Not only does he not perform. He clogs up the clean-up spot, preventing anyone else to drive in runs as well. And you can’t bump him down in the lineup when he ‘slumps’. Torre tried it, and was damm near crucified.

  196. factoid September 1st, 2008 at 9:04 pm

    Joe Torre was always protective of his players to a point.
    Joe Girardi is over-protective at least in front of the media. He needs to learn the balance.

  197. Timmy Lupus September 1st, 2008 at 9:09 pm

    Speaking of pitching, Cliff Lee is 6 outs away from being 20-2. If that man doesn’t win the Cy Young the writers need their heads examined.

  198. Bronx Jeers September 1st, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    “never mind even that. If arod was capable of hitting over .150 with runners in scoring position, we get by with the wild card. Not only does he not perform. He clogs up the clean-up spot, preventing anyone else to drive in runs as well.”

    Who do you propose they bat cleanup?

  199. pat September 1st, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    Didn’t get to see the game today but looking at the boxscore, did the Yankees really score 13 runs and only get 1 XBH today (Damon’s HR)?

  200. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    So, vinnie-b, when did Rodriguez drop another 100 points there? Exaggerations don’t really help your rant.

  201. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    That’s all there was, pat. They just kept stringing singles and walks together.

  202. vinny-b (place Arod on irrevocable waivers) September 1st, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    Who do you propose they bat cleanup?

    now? It doesn’t matter.

    earlier in the year? Abreau.

    I don’t blame Girardi, tho. Arod has a 8 years left at 28 million per year, and has the franchise by the b@lls. Girardi has 2 years left on his contract. Arod has the power.

  203. pat September 1st, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    Thanks GB.

  204. E-Rod September 1st, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    I think Dice-K has an outside shot at the CY Young if he gets to 20. He would have missed a month and still have 20 wins for a playoff team.

  205. mel September 1st, 2008 at 9:25 pm

    E-Rod,

    And he’s on a contender. But if you look at other stats, Lee > Matsuzaka.

  206. ray (sox fan) September 1st, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    E-Rod

    Even with me being a Sox fan I would give almost no chance of Dice-K winning the Cy Young, especially with the presence of Cliff Lee this year.

    Dice-K’s record is impressive, but even most Sox fans acknowledge that his record has been due to some luck considering how many walks he gives up and how many short games he has pitched (no more than five or six innings).

  207. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    Not a problem, Pat. Not many were chip shots. A lot of line drives.

  208. Timmy Lupus September 1st, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    A CG shutout for his 20th win. That probably locked it up for him.

  209. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    I’m guessing Matsuzaka finishes third behind Lee and Francisco Rodriguez and ahead of Mussina in 4th.

  210. jax g men September 1st, 2008 at 9:38 pm

    phil needs to be up here instead of ponson and take his lumps. there is no pennant race so there will be no pressure. if cashman is really afraid that his psyche is so fragile that he can’t handle getting beat up in meaningless games, then maybe he isin’t as mentally strong as he was touted to be.

  211. sw September 1st, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    GB, you forgot Roy Halladay, he’s got 17 wins now and may win 20. But Lee should win in a landslide.

  212. pat September 1st, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    vinny b

    A-Rod missed 20 games with the quad injury so he had no one by anything then. Girardi didn’t bat Abreu clean-up for those 20 games. Unlike you, Girardi must not think Abreu is a clean up hitter.

  213. Brandon (Alex FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get rid of that number on your back)..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 1st, 2008 at 9:49 pm

    Whoever is watching OTH prey for Dan Scott he’s in his own “Misery” :?

  214. Nick in SF September 1st, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    Anyone still watching the Sox game? Ugh, 7-4 Sox win.

    But one of the gals from the Olympic silver medal softball team was in the stands and they cut to her with 2 outs and 2 strikes in the top of the 9th and she was all “la la la la” and looking at her nails.

    Well it made me laugh, at least.

  215. Josh September 1st, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    Sox win 7-4. Ugh.

  216. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    I saw some guy on ESPN earlier who was probably the worst baseball “Analyst” I have ever witnessed. Oddly enough his name wasn’t Steve Phillips or Peter Gammons.

  217. Bronx Jeers September 1st, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    Pabelbon labored thru the 9th with the tying run at bat but still held on as Boston beat the O’s 7 -4

    Wild card Magic number drops to 19.

  218. Josh September 1st, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    Oh Nick, I thought that was the gymnast who fell twice and screwed up the gold medal for team.

    Either way, why is she at the game if she isn’t even gonna watch? She looked bored as heck.

  219. bru September 1st, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    the yankees just can’t make up any ground against anybody.

    it would be nice if the last series meant something.

  220. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    SW, you’re correct. He’s so easy to forget. He’s the luckiest pitcher in baseball. The only time Gaston pitches him is on nights when the opposition hitters are in a slump.

  221. bru September 1st, 2008 at 10:03 pm

    my posts are not showing up?

  222. Brandon (Alex FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get rid of that number on your back)..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 1st, 2008 at 10:03 pm

    IDK why we are scoreboard watching here, The Soxs have nothing to do w/ us anymore, they had thier chance they blew it. You don’t get 2nd and 3rd chances w/ teams like those.

  223. BBFan September 1st, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    We gained a game on White Sox today.
    Even with all their injuries, Red Sox are not slowing down at all.

  224. bru September 1st, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    how did coke look?

  225. Nick in SF September 1st, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Because some of us haven’t closed off our hearts, Brandon.

  226. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Halladay reminds me of a late 60′s – early ’70s with a bit better fastball. Almost no effort in his pitches and motion. Nothing wasted.

  227. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:07 pm

    correction***Halladay reminds me of a late 60’s – early ’70s Catfish Hunter with a bit better fastball. Almost no effort in his pitches and motion. Nothing wasted.***

  228. Josh September 1st, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    Still don’t understand how the Sox are winning. Have you seen their lineup? Bailey, Crisp, Lowrie, Tek…it just doesn’t make sense. Yet both Crisp and Lowrie had an RBI. Tek and Bailey go back-to-back with HRs.

    And Byrd goes out there, gives up three HRs, and still wins.

  229. Fredo Corleone September 1st, 2008 at 10:12 pm

    “I’m guessing Matsuzaka finishes third behind Lee and Francisco Rodriguez and ahead of Mussina in 4th.”

    Lee, Halladay, F. Rodriguez are pretty much locks for 1-2-3. After that, several have arguments for the 4th spot, but it’s a distant 4th.

  230. Brandon (Alex FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get rid of that number on your back)..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 1st, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    Because some of us haven’t closed off our hearts, Brandon.

    Are you calling me heartless ?

  231. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing September 1st, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    “vinny-b (place Arod on irrevocable waivers)”

    lol, how anyone could take any comment regarding ARod as credible or serious, especially from someone with THAT next to their name is beyond me completely.

    You sound like that bizarro poster that used to post on Yankees.com forum a long time ago called Vinny Boombotz or something like that.

  232. Nick in SF September 1st, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    Not heartless, but you seem to have closed your heart to the 2008 New York Yankees.

  233. Bronx Jeers September 1st, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    AL from BK must be talking about Eric Young who sounds like Betelgeuse from Howard Stern

  234. Sea Net September 1st, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    I’m pretty pumped for the upcoming Knicks season

  235. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    The Yanks at this point would be lucky to finish 3rd. Its not worth getting stressed out about what the Sux are doing. They are taking care of business despite the injury something our guys couldn’t do.

  236. black Yankee September 1st, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    Wasn`t pretty but I`ll take it and lets keep it going. Only problem is that we now need some help. We need Boston, Minn, and Chisox to go into the tank. Doesnt look too good, but you never know.
    Nice to see Matsui battle with RISP. Lets bat him 4th, Arod 2nd

  237. Brandon (Alex FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get rid of that number on your back)..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 1st, 2008 at 10:20 pm

    I’m pretty pumped for the upcoming Knicks season

    Ummmmm No.

  238. black Yankee September 1st, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    oh and Halliday? I think he is more comparable to a Jim Palmer type or Fergie Jenkins type, a guy who can bend but won`t break

  239. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    “AL from BK must be talking about Eric Young who sounds like Betelgeuse from Howard Stern.”

    No it wasn’t Young he was on at around 8 PM discussing CC Sabathia. He said that CC should not get any consideration for NL Cy Young even if he finishes with 10 CG’s and an ERA of 1 for the Brewers. I have never heard anything more idiotic even the anchor was visibly mad about this guys opinion.

  240. ray (sox fan) September 1st, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    I hate these dilemmas…..who do I cheer for the next few days….the Yankees or Tampa Bay?

  241. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    “I’m pretty pumped for the upcoming Knicks season

    Ummmmm No.”

    I’m pretty sure that comment was laden with sarcasm. The Knicks aren’t getting any of my attention until they get an actual NBA caliber team on the floor. Thanks Dolan for 10 years of futility.

  242. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    Sorry, but, Jenkins and Palmer were more straight over the top power pitchers. Style wise, he’s more of a match with hunter, but, no matter….Halladay’s an ok pitcher.

  243. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    “I hate these dilemmas…..who do I cheer for the next few days….the Yankees or Tampa Bay?”

    I hate to play spoiler for your team but I want to at least see the Yanks break .500 this year.

  244. Fredo Corleone September 1st, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    “I’m pretty pumped for the upcoming Knicks season”

    If nothing else, it should be good for a lot of ping pong balls in the ’09 draft lottery drawing.

  245. you gotta have faith (yanks can make this month interesting) September 1st, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    “I hate these dilemmas…..who do I cheer for the next few days….the Yankees or Tampa Bay?”

    it depends on whether or not you lose the next few days :)

  246. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    Pitchers I used to love watching pitch were Whitey Ford, Billy Pierce, Warren Spahn and Juan Marichal.

  247. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    ““I’m pretty pumped for the upcoming Knicks season”

    If nothing else, it should be good for a lot of ping pong balls in the ‘09 draft lottery drawing.”

    Good point Fredo. Who is the projected number 1 pick this year? Got any idea?

  248. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:33 pm

    Here’s something that you don’t see every day…Two players and one in each league, Stephan Drew and Adrian Beltre hitting for the cycle….both 5-5.

  249. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    “Here’s something that you don’t see every day…Two players and one in each league, Stephan Drew and Adrian Beltre hitting for the cycle….both 5-5.”

    Very cool indeed.

  250. Sea Net September 1st, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    Lots of good guards in next years draft, but of course, the Europe scenario plays heavily in it

    Rubio, Jennings, DeRazen etc. can all be franchise players.

    But knowing the Knicks luck, they will have the 3rd worst record and end up with the 4th pick and draft Hasheem Thabeet.

  251. black Yankee September 1st, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    Even as a Yankee Fan I loved watching Sudden Sam McDowell, lots K`s. Marichal, Gibson, Drysdale, Koufax Ford, those were all awesome ptichers.
    Luis Tiant was great, and Gaylord Perry was entertaining as well as a great one.
    Seaver, McNally, Palmer, all great ones.
    What would Gibson or Marichal be worth in a FA market today?

  252. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    More no hitters pitched than cycles hit.

  253. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    “Lots of good guards in next years draft, but of course, the Europe scenario plays heavily in it

    Rubio, Jennings, DeRazen etc. can all be franchise players.

    But knowing the Knicks luck, they will have the 3rd worst record and end up with the 4th pick and draft Hasheem Thabeet.”

    Thabeet is not terrible and I would like a guy who doesn’t move out of the way for guys in the paint.

  254. Forntoso September 1st, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    God, I want Sabathia so badly. I’d be willing to give him $25 million a year for 7 years ($175 mil) if need be. Just get him here.

    The sad part is that it is completely out of our hands because CC could take less money to go West. But we have to blow him away and I have no problem doing that.

  255. Fredo Corleone September 1st, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    “Here’s something that you don’t see every day…Two players and one in each league, Stephan Drew and Adrian Beltre hitting for the cycle….both 5-5.”

    Wow! Remember 2 guys pitching no hitters on the same night. Dave Stewart and Fernando. Had to be 15-20 years ago.

  256. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    “Even as a Yankee Fan I loved watching Sudden Sam McDowell, lots K`s. Marichal, Gibson, Drysdale, Koufax Ford, those were all awesome ptichers.
    Luis Tiant was great, and Gaylord Perry was entertaining as well as a great one.
    Seaver, McNally, Palmer, all great ones.
    What would Gibson or Marichal be worth in a FA market today?”

    Gibson and Marichal would command 7 years 150 similar to Johan or what CC will make.

  257. Sea Net September 1st, 2008 at 10:42 pm

    True but the Knicks need a franchise player. A Wade, Lebron, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, etc. a guy they can legitimately build around. That what has killed them. They have no young talent. We’re lucky if Chandler/Gallo evolve into Shawn Marion/Hedo Turkoglu. But we ultimately need a stud to build around… not have false hope that LeBron will come here. I like what Walsh is doing though, he has us on the right track but we need a lot of luck.

  258. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:42 pm

    I just enjoyed the Ford, Hunter, spahn Marichal, Pierce type pitchers, because of the finesse. No freak of nature fastballs of Ryan, Feller, McDowell, Downing, Koufax and Gibson was more impressive than watching the finesse pitchers carve up batters and then walk off the mound without breaking a sweat. I liked the power pitchers, too, just not as much. The Ford, Pierce types were like everyday guys that made a kid think that he could do that, too.

  259. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    “God, I want Sabathia so badly. I’d be willing to give him $25 million a year for 7 years ($175 mil) if need be. Just get him here.

    The sad part is that it is completely out of our hands because CC could take less money to go West. But we have to blow him away and I have no problem doing that.”

    Its none of our money so go all in. However I get this terrible feeling that he wants to stay in the NL.

  260. Sea Net September 1st, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    It’s going to be weird.. I love the NFL but I never really get fully into it until after the Yankees are eliminated in the middle of October. Then I concentrate on the hot stove season and football.

    Now, I’ve been looking forward to football and hot stove for weeks. Too bad trades/FA signings only start materializing after Thanksgiving which is 2 1\2 months away.

  261. CanIGetAMooseCall September 1st, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    “I get this terrible feeling that [Sabathia] wants to stay in the NL.”

    I get a terrible feeling that Sabathia will blow out his knees or have other problems associated with his morbid obesity. Any deal longer than 4 years will end in disaster.

  262. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:48 pm

    Thinking about guys like Feller and Spahn , much like Williams, Dimaggio and Greenberg wonder what they might have done in their careers without WWII. As it was, Spahn won 363 games and didn’t win his first game until he was 26. Racked up quite a war record, too. Battlefield commission and Silver and Bronze Stars at The Battle Of The Bulge with an Infantry Company.

  263. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    “True but the Knicks need a franchise player. A Wade, Lebron, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, etc. a guy they can legitimately build around. That what has killed them. They have no young talent. We’re lucky if Chandler/Gallo evolve into Shawn Marion/Hedo Turkoglu. But we ultimately need a stud to build around… not have false hope that LeBron will come here. I like what Walsh is doing though, he has us on the right track but we need a lot of luck.”

    Very true. I think regardless of position the best player available should be drafted. Chandler is the real deal.

  264. Fredo Corleone September 1st, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    Quick cycle trivia:

    1) Name the last Yankee to hit for the cycle.
    2) NAme the only active player with more than one cycle.

  265. OldYanksFan September 1st, 2008 at 10:51 pm

    “I don’t think Pete would have. Bottom line, Leyland was honest and to the point. Girardi has been repeatedly consistently neither. He lies and spins — no-one can respect that.”
    ——————————-
    Girardi does not ‘spin’. He is a young manager. It is simply his style to support his players with his public face, and not throw them under the bus. I’m sure in the locker room it’s different.

    Why do you people take what Joe says to the press so seriosuly? You want him to trash Cano? Call out ARod for poor RISP? You think what Joe says to the press has ANY MEANING AT ALL?

    Leyland is an old school, crusty guy. He, and others like him, can p*ss and cuss and it’s entertaining. Maybe Joe G. will be like that in 20 years. Maybe not. But it doesn’t matter because anything said to the press is meaningless (no offense Pete).

    There is enough bullsh*t press about the Yankees with ARod, Pettitte and Giambi for PEDS, our payroll, and any other junk that sells papers. Why should Girardi add to it?

  266. Rebecca--Optimist Prime September 1st, 2008 at 10:52 pm

    1) Tony Fernandez, no?

  267. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    ““I get this terrible feeling that [Sabathia] wants to stay in the NL.”

    I get a terrible feeling that Sabathia will blow out his knees or have other problems associated with his morbid obesity. Any deal longer than 4 years will end in disaster.”

    I somehow get a sense that you don’t watch a lot of baseball. His skills on the field are top notch and his ability to stay healthy/eat innings is what makes him different from the Sheets and Hardens of the world. What do you know about his health anyway are you an MD? Just because he is a large guy doesn’t mean he will develop knee or leg issues that is just an uneducated assumption on your part.

  268. Brandon (Alex FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get rid of that number on your back)..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 1st, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Wilson Chandler is not a Shawn Marion at all, his jump shot is raw, he’s horrible one on one defensively and and off the ball is not a smart player, he runs like a deer but also shares it’s brain and w/ no legit PG it’s going to get worse.

    The best thing that can happen is the Knicks miss the playoffs (not hard to do) and draft a legit PG. The closest thing to Shawn Marion that I see on the Knicks roster is Patrick Ewing Jr. that kid can play but under the Hoya strategy he was limited, if they expand his role he can be the diamond in the ruff.

  269. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Tony Fernandez and Brad Wilkerson

  270. pat September 1st, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Name the last Yankee to hit for the cycle.

    Tony Fernandez?

  271. Fredo Corleone September 1st, 2008 at 10:55 pm

    “Why do you people take what Joe says to the press so seriosuly? You want him to trash Cano? Call out ARod for poor RISP? You think what Joe says to the press has ANY MEANING AT ALL?”

    He suffers by comparisons with his predecessor(sp?). Odd thing is that while Torre was very good with the media (not to mention very comfortable with them), he too rarely offered anything of substance.

  272. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:56 pm

    Name the three Yankees that have two cycles (other than bicycles)

  273. sunny615 September 1st, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    nothing short of a sweep in Tampa Bay will do.

  274. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 10:59 pm

    Beltre ends the night 5-6. Unless it goes extra innings, and, in Texas, 6 runs don’t mean too much.

  275. Brandon (Alex FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get rid of that number on your back)..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 1st, 2008 at 10:59 pm

    nothing short of a sweep in Tampa Bay will do.

    Then don’t bother watching :lol:

  276. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    “Wilson Chandler is not a Shawn Marion at all, his jump shot is raw, he’s horrible one on one defensively and and off the ball is not a smart player, he runs like a deer but also shares it’s brain and w/ no legit PG it’s going to get worse.

    The best thing that can happen is the Knicks miss the playoffs (not hard to do) and draft a legit PG. The closest thing to Shawn Marion that I see on the Knicks roster is Patrick Ewing Jr. that kid can play but under the Hoya strategy he was limited, if they expand his role he can be the diamond in the ruff.”

    Ewing Jr. is strictly a 20 min a night guy who can play hard-nosed D. Chandler has the ability to be a solid NBA player not Marion obviously but at least a starting caliber SF.

  277. Fredo Corleone September 1st, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    GB got the answers to both questions correct.

    To GB’s question:

    DiMaggio
    Bob Muesel (one of two to hit for three cycles)
    Don’t know the the 3rd. Mantle? Gehrig?

  278. Brandon (Alex FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get rid of that number on your back)..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 1st, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    Ewing Jr. is strictly a 20 min a night guy who can play hard-nosed D. Chandler has the ability to be a solid NBA player not Marion obviously but at least a starting caliber SF.

    I’d rate Ewing Jr. >>> Chaldler, IQ, ball handling skills and defensive presence

  279. Brandon (Alex FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get rid of that number on your back)..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 1st, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    I’d rate Ewing Jr. >>> Chandler, IQ, ball handling skills and defensive presence*

    Sorry drinking my coffee.

  280. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 11:03 pm

    Third Yankee is Gehrig

  281. Josh Johnson September 1st, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    This is wayyyy off-topic, but has anyone been into Macy’s lately?

  282. RIGHT after you see pigs fly... September 1st, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    Meanwhile, Joe Girardi said that Sidney Ponson is staying in the rotation…..translation….Ponson also has pictures of Girardi dressed as a ballerina.

  283. GreenBeret7 September 1st, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    Oddly enough, even though Ruth had over 500 doubles, 130 triples and 714 homers, he never hit for the cycle.

  284. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    “I’d rate Ewing Jr. >>> Chandler, IQ, ball handling skills and defensive presence*

    Sorry drinking my coffee.”

    I agree with everything except ball handling. Jr. always looked really uncomfortable with the ball everytime I saw him. Defense is something that can be taught unfortunately his coach is Mike D’antoni.

  285. Patrick â„¢ September 1st, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    “Jim Leyland is a respected, successful manager and he made his point. I’d rather a manager give me a great quote like that than five minutes of nonsense.”

    Thats pretty obvious at this point. It seems to me that you don’t like Girardi because he doesn’t give you a good quote to put in the newspaper. I don’t blame you, its your job to make interesting stories and managers that give good quotes can only help.

  286. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    I’ll tell you one thing.

    Every team in the NBA >> The Knicks.

  287. ANSKY September 1st, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    It took 2 whole starts for someone to actually suggest offering Pavano a deal. In this land (virtual land, it being a blog) of small sample size-based conclusions and short term memory loss, I’m surprised it took that long.

    Some comments have led me to believe that the poster actually has a negative IQ score. This one so is disproportonately stupid I cannot even begin describe it.

    OK maybe to give you a sense of scale, I’ll try to make this sound like Chris Berman calling one of Mark McGwire’s un-believably be-he-mothian, epic (albeit steroid-aided) mind-boggling tape measure homers of 10 years ago:

    You …
    have …
    got …
    to …
    be …
    kidding …
    me …

  288. ANSKY September 1st, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    Leyland’s quote was definitely astute … no need to say more than he did.

  289. Nick in SF September 1st, 2008 at 11:17 pm

    I’m just trying to wrap my brain around the Frederic Weis era really being over.

  290. bigjf September 1st, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    Pretty sure it was more about the bad pitching than Cano’s sloppy defense. The guy made a couple of damn good plays from what I saw. I understand he spurned you guys when he should’ve stuck around after the loss the other day, but I guess that’s your job, to try and get a quote and then harp on it. If Girardi were to knock one of his players, you guys would have a field day with it.

  291. Meaningless Stats September 1st, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    Aside from the Knicks, the Yankees are the last NY team to get out of the 1st round.

    Giants – 2007 (beat Buccanners)
    Jets – 2004-2005 (beat Chargers)
    Mets – 2006 (beat Dodgers)
    Rangers – 2007 (beat Trashers)
    Yankees – 2004 (beat Twins)

    Stupid stat, I know.

  292. Brandon (Alex FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get rid of that number on your back)..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 1st, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    I agree with everything except ball handling. Jr. always looked really uncomfortable with the ball everytime I saw him.

    I saw him vs St.John’s D he was better than what he showed in the NCAA tourney, remember Hibbert and what’s his face was the focus on that team.

    Defense is something that can be taught unfortunately his coach is Mike D’antoni.

    Which is why Chandler have a chance in learning it.
    ——————————————————–

    I’ll tell you one thing.

    Every team in the NBA >> The Knicks.

    I’ll tell you another.

    Lincoln H.S. >>> The Knicks.

  293. Brandon (Alex FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get rid of that number on your back)..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 1st, 2008 at 11:23 pm

    Which is why Chandler will not have a chance in learning it. *

  294. ANSKY September 1st, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    I wonder … was Monsieur Froederic (pronounced like in Young Frankenstein) Weis a Scott Boras client who set a precedent by holding out for more money from an NBA team for virtually his whole professional career?

    “Hweell zee Kneeks har from zee same ceetee as zees Steinbrenner team hweeth all zee money, so ahh can hwait unteel zey hmeet mah demands!”

    He’s probably still getting paid (and saving his money) in Francs, too. Another Boras-inspired deman?

  295. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 11:26 pm

    “I’ll tell you another.

    Lincoln H.S. >>> The Knicks.”

    Being my alma mater I would have to agree.

  296. ANSKY September 1st, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    Headline from a Houston newspaper in the year 2055:

    “The Rockets today traded the draft rights to Frederic Weis’ remains for Patrick Ewing the fourth and a vial of Patrick Ewing the first’s cryogenically frozen semen, in hopes of getting some return on their investment sometime this century.”

  297. RIGHT after you see pigs fly... September 1st, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    Rasner, 5-9, 5.08
    Ponson, 7-5, 5.13
    .
    Yes, we will EASILY make the playoffs this year with these 2 BUMS pitching for us 40% of our starts…NOT !…Anyone that does not know BY NOW, that the Yankees have no interest in making a push for the playoffs needs to get their head out of the sand and join us here in the real world. Let’s see…Aceves, Joba, Hughes, a homeless person, your local Wendy’s manager ( male OR female ).????….I wonder whos gives us the very best chance of actually winning a game in September ???….hmmmmmm ???? :-(

  298. Al from BK(CC's numbers on the season: 15-8, 2.82 ERA, 8.90 K/9, 9 CG's. Something tells me that he would help next year. September 1st, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    “Rasner, 5-9, 5.08
    Ponson, 7-5, 5.13
    .
    Yes, we will EASILY make the playoffs this year with these 2 BUMS pitching for us 40% of our starts…NOT !…Anyone that does not know BY NOW, that the Yankees have no interest in making a push for the playoffs needs to get their head out of the sand and join us here in the real world. Let’s see…Aceves, Joba, Hughes, a homeless person, your local Wendy’s manager ( male OR female ).????….I wonder whos gives us the very best chance of actually winning a game in September ???….hmmmmmm ????”

    Why the overwhelming negativity. We all know that Jeter will be playing golf on October the 1st. Why not relax and enjoy the NFL.

  299. sunny615 September 1st, 2008 at 11:43 pm

    After 13 years of Torre – who was a media master and reporters best friend because he could handle the media better than the Supernanny handles children, anything less is going to be sour grapes. I don’t blame Pete or anyone else in the beat report souring on Girardi… he handles the media like the Bush Administration’s Press Secretary. Spouting Yankee Front Office BS for 30 minutes. If Torre had been like that, I’m sure these guys wouldn’t crap all over Girardi so much, but you come to NY, you gotta expect the mass media and at least treat them like they weren’t ignorant idiots. When players and managers aren’t on the same page (players saying on thing, managers another), you’re going to get the impression that he’s not in charge. I get it that it’s not Girardi’s job to sit there and expose all the team’s problems, but if you’re going to sit there and pretend there aren’t any problems (like Cano dogging it), then expect some griping.

  300. Nick in SF September 1st, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    There’s no reason to knock Dana Perino.

  301. Abepeter September 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 am

    The Yankees are a terrible defensive team. Defense usually gets overlooked, as everyone looks at offensive stats, but makes a huge difference. The team does need to be overhauled not tinkered with. First is the outfield. They can’t have an outfield of Nady (terrible in left – a real butcher), Damon (no arm and suddenly iffy catching skills) and Abreu (anything by the wall is an extra base hit). They also have Matsui as a left field DH. The Yankees will not be able to trade Matsui because of his contract. This means saying two of the starting three need to be moved. For me this means saying bye bye to Abreu – without offering arbitration. (His arbitration figure would probably be higher than he would get on the open market – although he would get more years. The second would be Damon. I know he has probably been the most consistent offensive player but he could net something (not alot) on the open market.

    On the infield obviously the Big G goes, but I also think Cano needs to be moved for a CF.

    I think Texeira would be the right move at 1st, but not at 10 years $200 million. The focus for 2nd base should be defense. The Braves are going to looking to move Kelly Johnson. I would think a deal for a young arm could get that done.

    For starting pitchers its obvious that the Yanks will add an arm – hopefully CC but I could see AJ Burnett. Its also time to say goodbye to Andy. Great Yankee but he doesn’t warrant the kind of salary he’d want. If the could resign Moose to a one year deal with reasonable vesting options for a second year do it. The rotation is CC/Burnett, Wang, Joba, Mussina and Rasner. I know everyone bags on Rasner but he’s still a young guy who will improve. He battles and has shown more than Hughes and Kennedy.

    Hughes and Kennedy should start at AAA next year. If they are doing well great bring them up and see but I’m not sold on them yet. There are plenty of arms to choose from for the bullpen. This is clearly a strength and there should be plenty to use and trade if thats necessary.

    Posada is a huge question mark. You can see him needing alot of ABs as a DH which is why they need to move some OFs. plus posada is bad defensive catcher which runs counter to improving defensively.

    Again the key to next year is improving defensively and adding a top of the rotation starter. Anyway thats how I see it.

  302. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut September 2nd, 2008 at 12:29 am

    So a team that is 3rd best in terms of errors is terrble defensively? Wow. Who knew?

  303. GreenBeret7 September 2nd, 2008 at 12:39 am

    Perfect. now somebody wants Kelly Johnson, who’s bat isn’t close to Cano’s, has less range and isn’t as good defensively. That should tighten up the infield defense by leaps and bounds. Cano stinks, but, let’s trade him for a good, young cente fielder. Bring in Sabathia or Burnett but dump Pettitte but, leave Rasner in the 35 slot. that’s really gonna do the trick.

  304. COL 88 September 2nd, 2008 at 12:42 am

    Did Girardi say “I thought Siddy threw the ball well for us today”?

  305. TKinDC September 2nd, 2008 at 12:50 am

    “Of course I asked Hughes if he’d seen today’s Sidney Ponson start and thought about what that might mean for him. And of course Hughes answered without really saying much of anything. “You always want to pitch well wherever you are,” he said.”

    Another Quote Machine to add to the Yankees Ministry of Information. At least he didn’t say ‘it is what it is.’ :)

  306. Al from BK September 2nd, 2008 at 12:57 am

    ““Of course I asked Hughes if he’d seen today’s Sidney Ponson start and thought about what that might mean for him. And of course Hughes answered without really saying much of anything. “You always want to pitch well wherever you are,” he said.”

    Another Quote Machine to add to the Yankees Ministry of Information. At least he didn’t say ‘it is what it is.’ ”

    Lol. The Yankees are certainly a wealth of insightful quotes. The one thing I like about Sidney is that he never says “Tip your cap” and that is a rarity amongst these Yankees.

  307. Abepeter September 2nd, 2008 at 1:00 am

    I didn’t say Cano stinks genius. I said he he’s good and has value that could help bring a good CFer. The team needs to be overhauled. Andy Pettitte is not coming back for league average starting pitcher pay. They need a front of the rotation guy. In terms of a fifth starter that should go to Rasner, Hughes or Kennedy (someone who is making little in terms of salary but can develop). But no one should be annointed like they were this year and based on this year Rasner is the best of those three.

    Errors aren’t the best measure of a good defensive team its plays that they don’t make. Nady hasn’t been charged with many errors but he has given up “hits” that most OFers make. Same with Giambi. Arod and Jeter are decent defenders and thats it on the Yankees (Molina/Pudge are good but Posada will probably catch most games next year and will be bad defensively). If you think the Yankees are good defensively just tell me who you think is.

    If you are going into next year with Arod, Jeter, Nady, Damon, Matsui, Cano and Posada where do you upgrade? If you do that you will have another 85 win team. You bring in a first baseman and a pitcher and you think everything is fine? The team needs to be overhauled but most of the position players can’t be moved. The only ones that can that have value are Damon and Cano. Damon and Cano are good players but are the only ones that can bring others that could help improve the team

  308. Nick in SF September 2nd, 2008 at 1:05 am

    Ponson can’t tip his cap, he keeps a fifth of JD under there.

    He can, however, tip over.

  309. Al from BK September 2nd, 2008 at 1:07 am

    “I didn’t say Cano stinks genius. I said he he’s good and has value that could help bring a good CFer. The team needs to be overhauled. Andy Pettitte is not coming back for league average starting pitcher pay. They need a front of the rotation guy. In terms of a fifth starter that should go to Rasner, Hughes or Kennedy (someone who is making little in terms of salary but can develop). But no one should be annointed like they were this year and based on this year Rasner is the best of those three.

    Errors aren’t the best measure of a good defensive team its plays that they don’t make. Nady hasn’t been charged with many errors but he has given up “hits” that most OFers make. Same with Giambi. Arod and Jeter are decent defenders and thats it on the Yankees (Molina/Pudge are good but Posada will probably catch most games next year and will be bad defensively). If you think the Yankees are good defensively just tell me who you think is.

    If you are going into next year with Arod, Jeter, Nady, Damon, Matsui, Cano and Posada where do you upgrade? If you do that you will have another 85 win team. You bring in a first baseman and a pitcher and you think everything is fine? The team needs to be overhauled but most of the position players can’t be moved. The only ones that can that have value are Damon and Cano. Damon and Cano are good players but are the only ones that can bring others that could help improve the team”

    When you say good CF do you mean Matt Kemp or someone like David Dejesus?

  310. Al from BK(Brett Ratliff is the QB of the future.) September 2nd, 2008 at 1:08 am

    “Ponson can’t tip his cap, he keeps a fifth of JD under there.

    He can, however, tip over.”

    Even at this hour, sharp as a tack Nick.

  311. Abepeter September 2nd, 2008 at 1:22 am

    Al,

    I’d think you’d have to look at both of those guys. I think a trading Partner for Cano is the DBacks. They don’t have one anywhere in their system. The DBacks don’t have a CF, but I would think there would be a chance for a three team trade say with royals. I also think Damon could go to an established team maybe the Tigers (maybe the Phils if they don’t resign Burrell).

    Another guy I like is Victorino, but obviously the Phillies don’t need a second baseman.

    My biggest point in my post is the Yankees are really a marginal defensive team and defense is under-rated. I’m not saying you add guys like Doug Mink… but they need to start changing the team and that starts with SS, 2B, and CF.
    Pencil Jeter in. Take some of the salary flexiblity and add a front line starter. Take some established depth in pitching (and Cano and Damon) and look to get younger

  312. Pepitone September 2nd, 2008 at 2:22 am

    Hey Joe,

    We don’t need you to “keep things positive,” we need you to tell the truth about the team.

    Try taking some lessons from Leyland. When your guy stinks then say it. Leyland has a ring, and so does LaRussa (2 as a matter of fact), both managers will not tolerate lazy play. Why do you? Come on these guys are tough they can take it. Stop treating them like 12 year old girls at a softball camp.

  313. alex September 2nd, 2008 at 5:09 am

    ok pete, let me rephrase my question. had girardi have said the same thing, how would you have reacted?

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