Robbie Cano: Stay or go?
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When this season started, Robinson Cano stood as one of the best young players in the American League. Five months later, he is one of the most disappointing. In reading the comments on the blog, many people want him traded.
This, I think, would be a mistake on several fronts.
You should never trade a player when his value is decreased. Cano, at the moment, is a second baseman hitting .268 with a .304 OBP and a tendency to take plays off in the field. What do you think you’re getting for him? It’s not Casey Kotchman.
The Yankees need productive, young and inexpensive players; which is what Cano can be when properly motivated. Joe Girardi and his staff need to find a way to get to him. This is what good managers and coaches do.
Whether Cano should need a kick in the pants or not isn’t the point. He does.
At one point last season, Cano was hitting around .200 in day games. Joe Torre and Larry Bowa made it clear to him: Get to the park earlier and get to work in the cage. Guess what happened? Cano started hitting in day games. Being a manager isn’t rocket science.
If the Yankees don’t have somebody willing to put the hammer down, get somebody who will. In any sport, the manager or coach has one primary duty: Get the players to play hard. The rest pretty much takes care of itself.
There is no reason in the world that six AL second baseman should have a higher OPS than Cano. He’s 25, he’s a work in progress. His career is at a point where it could go one way or the other. I think the Yankees should stick with him because there is greatness to be had.
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on Tuesday, September 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
We covered all this, can we have a new thread?
I agree with you, Peter. Cano took a step back this year, but he’s got a ton of talent and just needs to mature. Having a Bowa or Randolph around would help. Let’s worry about the positions where we really need help.
I agree. On paper, Cano’s the kind of player we need more of. But who’s going to be the guy to get on Cano’s rear end? If we brought back Randolph, would he be willing to do it?
Either way, they gotta figure something out. Cano’s performance this year is inexcusable.
Well Sox fans would love to have him stay and drag down the rest of the team like he did this year!
Just like ARod: More money, less clutch!
Couldn’t of happened to a better money-mongor team!
Could the Spanks try to step up and win a few in Tampa the next couple of nights so the World Champs can get back to where they belong, which is first place!
Robi just needs a butt whoopin’ any takers ?
To sum up: Don’t sell low on Cano.
One year of taking a step backwards in his progress isn’t reason enough to trade him. I say give him a shot next year and see. Get on him, and if he gets it in gear he stays. If motivating him is a distraction, he should go. A pro is supposed to be motivated. He’s obviously got the skills.
Going into next season, I would use psychology on Robbie and let him know how good we think he can be and that we want him to be our #3 hitter. And of course let him know the responsibilities that goes into being a #3 hitter. This may motivate him. Perhaps he gets “bored” so low in the batting order.
In light of the fact that Cano has been hitting over .300 since his awful April ended, it seems at least a little silly to claim this is all a factor of motivation. Did motivation suddenly kick in post-ASB when put up a .866 OPS?
Cano’s season is all about perception. I’m sure he’ll have a strong September. If you flipped that and April, he wouldn’t be getting half the bad press he is.
Don,
Blip on the radar, really. Magnified by the struggles of the entire team. The one or two games where Robbie really screwed up defensively can’t be absorbed like they should because we gave away so many games earlier in the season.
Doreen and I’ve talked about Girardi taking Cano under his wing as a pet project. Like how Joe (G., not T.!) did with Farnsworth. If you invest in Cano, I think the he’ll pay the dividends.
Wholeheartedly agree. We know he can do it. It’s a shame it takes SOMEONE ELSE to motivate him. Sounds like the vets have tried and failed. I wonder if there is any way his family can move up north! He kicked a** for a few weeks after a visit with dear old dad!
Randolph? I don’t know his managing style well enough to make any definitive statements, but he wasn’t too successful with Jose Reyes, who underachieved at the worst possible time for the Mets.
I am surprised Jeter and A-Rod don’t get on him more!
We should trade Canooo for Utley. We’ll even throw in his BFF Melky.
An 8 paragraph dissertation on Cano but not one mention of Boy Genius Brian Cashman making him a multi-millionaire years before he had to despite everyone knowing Cano is a little on the lazy side. Amazing.
I blame Girardi. Or Hank and Hal. Or the Tampa Mafia. Or Scott Boras. Or Gerrit Cole’s father. Anyone but the delicate genius.
I think the solution is simple… Bring back Larry Bowa! Meachum is a lousy 3rd base coach anyway…
“We covered all this, can we have a new thread?”
What did we decide?
who ever said you’re selling low on the kid?
yeah, technically he’s having a bad year stats wise, but everyone who is a Robby fan can spit out 100 different reasons why he shouldnt be traded, why he’s having bad luck in the box, about how his line drive numbers are actually up or equal to that of last year, about how he is still a top-5 talent as far as AL 2nd baseman go, etc, etc.
dont you think other teams know this too? of course.
noone think he’s washed up, or cant play, or destined to failure.
he’s young, talented, good contract, provides offense from a traditionally defensive position when he’s right…
most people think this year is the exception to the rule, and i’m sure other organizations think this too.
so you arent selling low on Cano.
and if a team comes at you with those intentions of buying low, kick them and their offer to the curb.
but he should be put on the market. same goes with other players on this roster, or prospects in the minor leagues.
if you get back a package that you think is equal to above value for Robby, and it helps revamp the team, you make the deal.
if you dont get that back, let him take some cuts with his dad back in the dominican republic, or wherever they live, and hope he comes back next year and hits the snot out of the ball like his talent tells us he should.
A-Rod don’t get on him more!
I’m surprised Alex hasn’t kicked his butt yet. There were stories how he got on Micheal Young that way, it could be a lie but would explain a bunch.
I felt that Joe Girardi failed to get the slumping young players going this season ,from Hughes ,IPK,Melky to Cano. Good manager find a way to get slumping players back on tracks.
Maybe he was good in Marlins but not in Yankees.I think he is still finding a way to deal a group of players which include star players and young, immuture kids. Maybe he will be better next year or maybe not.
I 2nd Mel Canogate has been going on here for 2 days.
I’m going to start a new thread for anyone who is bored with all the Cano talk.
Here is my thread idea:
Can the Yankees reclaim their rightful position of WORLD DOMINANCE without the re-signing of Sal Fasano? I think not!
As wrongheaded and unpleasant as randyhater has usually been, I have to give props to the Seinfeld refernce.
Delicate genius. Nice.
It’s frustrating watching a player with so much talent take it easy on the field. What I really don’t like about Cano is his tendency to sulk when he’s batting. Notice when he pops up how his shoulders slump and he puts his head down. He looks like my 7 seven year old…
cano stays!
“Joe Girardi and his staff need to find a way to get to Cano.This is what good managers and coaches do.” “In any sport,the manager or coach has primary duty:Get the players to play hard.”
Agree.Girardi should improve his leadership.
You hire Willie next year to coach 3rd, but more importantly you tell Willie we want you to teach this guy non-stop even if it mean being very very harsh with him.
You can’t sell low on Cano. They sold low on Tabata after he was Un-touchable. Now they got lucky that Nady has played very well, but Tabata at the age of 20 is now hitting 348 at AA.
We should trade Canooo for Utley. We’ll even throw in his BFF Melky.
PHI : …..
“Whether Cano should need a kick in the pants or not isn’t the point. He does.”
It is the point. You win with guys who need a kick in the pants (See: Yankees, New York circa 1995-2001). Cano has to grow up. It’s not on the coach to make that happen. If it has to be on a coach in Cano’s case then we should begin reconsidering whether he is indeed destined to be a star.
I forget, who had to kick Jeter in the pants???
Oops! That should read you DON’T win with guys who need a kick in the pants.
My bad.
I forget, who had to kick Jeter in the pants???
Daryll, Doc, Tino and Paul
While I agree with Peter that there is no point in trading Cano now because his value has been severely diminished by this sub-par season, and while I agree with everyone on this thread that he has tremendous upside potential, my problem with Cano is more fundamental, and thus more troubling: why would a 25 year-old man, whose dream of playing major league baseball has not only come true but also with the greatest franchise in the sport, and who signed a $30 million contract before the season began – why would this individual need “to be motivated,” need “a kick in the pants,” or need “to be taken under “(the manager’s) wing as a pet project?”
To me this speaks to a deeper issue with Cano that is not so easily addressed: either he has a sense of entitlement which shows up as both a questionable work ethic and a lack of respect for the game; or he’s just a fundamentally immature individual who doesn’t get it.
All of us on this thread should put ourselves in his position – a position I assume we’ve all fantasized about – and ask ourselves this question: would we need to be motivated? Would we need a kick in the pants? Would we need to be taken under the manager’s wing? I know I wouldn’t.
“Daryll, Doc, Tino and Paul”
No they didn’t. Jeter NEVER needed one.
If Jeter is the standard to which we are going to hold everyone…very, very few will stack up.
“I forget, who had to kick Jeter in the pants???”
You are absolutely right on the money with that!!!
Cano needs to grow up mentally but all the physical skills are there. It would be a mistake to trade him now.
Pat,
We decided that my opinion was the correct one.
We wait a little longer for Cano to mature. We forget how young he is. He’s got too much potential to give up on right now. Who else you’re going to put there? Don’t tell me Uggla. He may have more power, but he’s a butcher compared to Cano!
Cano’s also shown he can get better. Look at how much his eye has improved. He doesn’t walk very much, but he’s striking out less and he’s not swinging at stuff 2 feet out of the zone.
Blip on the radar, Pat! Would you give away your child because he got a “B” in math?
I think Mariah Carey’s husband wanted to kick Jeter in the pants — but he wasn’t wearing any.
No they didn’t. Jeter NEVER needed one.
Oh really.. you should do more research.
“To me this speaks to a deeper issue with Cano that is not so easily addressed: either he has a sense of entitlement which shows up as both a questionable work ethic and a lack of respect for the game; or he’s just a fundamentally immature individual who doesn’t get it.”
I think it’s the latter, but I also think school’s out and it’s time to grow up. No such thing as a superstar who needs to be browbeaten into concentrating/focusing on doing his job.
Kevin,
Ah. You’re operating under the impression that you have to be perfect to be a Yankee.
Nick,
You talking about the one that wears Depends or Huggies?
You can spin his numbers any way you like, but the guy doesn’t have the right mental approach to the game and he’s not going to get it from anyone other than himself.
This leaves you with wishing and hoping he matures and somehow “gets it” and can be his own policeman, but I think enough of you have lived enough of your lives to know we’re pretty much who we are and our fundamental nature is what it is.
Yeah, you can change. I’m not saying we’re not capable of change.
But usually change comes from some kind of big coming to Jesus like incident in our lives that forces us to reevaluate the choices we make and the ways we go about life.
Cano won’t have that moment until the team sends him to the minors, benches him for a month or trades him.
If we trade him, it probably will be the catalyst to him growing up and taking the game seriously, but it ain’t gonna happen here.
Everything is too comfy for this prima donna here. He got his money, he’s got his lifestyle…
If there ever was a guy who needed money as a motivating factor for his career, it’s this guy.
I’m still livid that Cashman made the mistake he did with him only to compound it further by letting his moronic manager pick Meacham for the staff and not keep Bowa who EVERYONE in baseball knew handled Cano.
Robbie Cano will never be a consistent offensive star on the Yankees.
It’s year four and he still can’t hit in the lineup above the 6 hole. That’s because every time they’ve tried him in a pressure spot, he fades.
We have too many mentally fragile stars on this team at the moment. Too many for my tastes.
It’s time to find some guys who grew up loving playing ball and want to be the best. Guys who want to be part of a team and are willing to sacrifice their ego to win.
Robbie Cano will never be that guy. He plays defense like he’d rather be somewhere else other than a baseball diamond some days. He can’t bunt or move a runner over to save his life. He swings at garbage pitches and doesn’t have the ability of Vlad to turn those bad pitches into great hits.
I think we may have waited too long on him and definitely erred by giving him the money.
The past 2 seasons he takes 3 months to heat up, so in the first 3 months of the season your team offense struggles and you lose games waiting for this prima donna to get in a groove.
You don’t build around this guy.
That said, you don’t give him away for nothing. If you can’t get spit for him on the trade market, you keep him.
But whoever is the next GM better sign a solid veteran middle infielder who can put Cano’s butt on the bench if he pulls the same act.
And I hope we find a manager who is willing to bench this guy, because Girardi looks to be about as tough as Art Howe.
Fredo, every one is different. What works for one person can destroy another. That is what Torre did though. He knew the right buttons to press for just about every player on the team.
Girardi comes across as a single approach type of guy.
Some players need to be coddled, others need tough love. Getting it right IS the coaches job. Getting the players to perform at their best IS the coaches job. If it isn’t, then what is? Making up line-ups? The real work as a manager or coach is getting into the heads of the players and getting them to perform. The in-game stuff is secondary because if the players aren’t performing the way they should be the games are lost.
I agree with Pete, Cano is too good to sell low on him now.
Also, as much as the naysayers want to ignore it, Cano has been unlucky this year. Here’s a nice analysis from Replacement level Yankees blog: http://www.replacementlevel.co.....ls_in_play
Bad luck doesn’t explain his poor fielding and mental mistakes but it does help explain why his offense has been so bad. Hopefully Cano can bounce back next year and mature a bit more.
“Oh really.. you should do more research.”
By all means, enlighten us. Show us where a 25 year old Derek Jeter took plays off and didn’t focus on what he was supposed to be focusing on.
A team of Cano and B.J. Upton and seven other players at their respective positions with similar styles would be a sight to behold.
Can you imagine a team like that where every player thought their style of play was smooth as a baby’s butt and unfortunately just as crappy from time to time!
I like the way the Rays/Maddon addressed the Upton situation and even the veteran Cliff Floyd got involved going so far as to say that he was taking him under his wing and that he (meaning Upton) would get his act together before he (Floyd) left the team.
Sounds good except for the obvious fact that the player has to want to excel in all areas of the game and until they do they are just potential perennial all stars.
It’s rumored that the Phillies may want to move Ryan Howard after this season. I would have no problem packaging Cano and some of our minor league pitching prospects to Philadelphia if it brings back Howard.
“An 8 paragraph dissertation on Cano but not one mention of Boy Genius Brian Cashman making him a multi-millionaire years before he had to despite everyone knowing Cano is a little on the lazy side. Amazing.”
Considering the fact that Cano would have made MORE money had he gone through arbitration I believe this is a moot point.
Cano’s contract is basically paying him the SAME amount he would have gotten had he gone through arbitration. Cano is messing up his OPTION years which the Yankees simply won’t pick up if Cano doesn’t improve.
By all means, enlighten us. Show us where a 25 year old Derek Jeter took plays off and didn’t focus on what he was supposed to be focusing on.
There’s a reason he got the captaincy after an angry George was getting reports of him being out night after night, that wasn’t just once it was a bunch of times especially to get to a owner’s concern, there’s a reason Darryl Strawberry in his bio Derek credits him and Doc w/ showing him what to do and what not to do. It amazes me how you people for for everything, you think he never had issues you know difference between Robi and Derek’s issues when Derek was young the internet wasn’t a full source. Whatever happened in his minor league days and rookie years stayed buried, Robi doesn’t have that going for him.
“I forget, who had to kick Jeter in the pants???”
That would be Dr. and Mrs. Jeter. A parent who makes a 14 year old accountable to a written contract is giving them a kick in the pants. Not everyone is so luck to learn important life lessons at such a young age.
Jeter does credit players (I remember Gerald Williams for one) for teaching him how to be a major leaguer.
If the Yankees have to hire a coach to motivate Robbie Cano, they made the wrong decision extending him and they have the wrong type of player on the team.
If they want to hire a coach to improve the overall team? That’s a different issue.
The Yankees have NEVER hired a coach to motivate one player. If tha’s starting now, this team won’t win for a very long time.
Its up to Robbie Cano to “get it”. If he can’t, he goes. If he can’t, he stays.
Its not more complicated than that.
As far as “selling low”, that’s not really the case.
In fact, I contend this is the last year they can “sell” him at all.
You can sell an off season, trade him, and get value in return. You can’t sell two off years because it shows a downside pattern that teams will shy away from these days.
That’s the issue with Cano and its up to the Yankees to make the right call on him. Whichever that decision may be.
There’s a reason he got the captaincy after an angry George was getting reports of him being out night after night, that wasn’t just once it was a bunch of times especially to get to a owner’s concern, there’s a reason Darryl Strawberry in his bio Derek credits him and Doc w/ showing him what to do and what not to do. It amazes me how you people fall for everything, you think he never had issues you know difference between Robi and Derek’s issues when Derek was young the internet wasn’t a full source. Whatever happened in his minor league days and rookie years stayed buried, Robi doesn’t have that going for him.*
I say see if you can get a top notch young first baseman/center fielder and get Brian Roberts to play second. Would have preferred Hudson but he is coming off of a wrist injury. We keep saying he is young. Some guys never grow up. Im not for baby sitting a player. Need more gamers on the team. I dont think it would be selling low. The league knows his potential and someone will think they can get it out of him. Get a necessity out of him while we still can.
Girardi, Meachem, Pena, Bowa, Cashman, Jeter, Arod, and Abreu.
What do they all have in common?
All of that, at one point or another, had the “talk” with Cano.
It didn’t do any good.
He’s tuned everybody out. Question is, will this bad season make him tune people back in?
Nobody knows the answer to that question at this time.
Oh my god, that Mike Francessa’s jingle was awful
Brandon:
I didn’t ask about his off field activities. You why I didn’t ask? Because it was never a problem on the field. Different issues. Jeter NEVER takes plays off and always did his job professionally and with full focus.
I don’t care what Cano does off the field either. These guys are grown men, single in these two cases, and can do whatever they want so long as they bring 100% to the field both physically and mentally. Jeter always has, from the day he showed up. Cano has demonstrated great physical talent at times but times he has also demonstrated that maybe he’s not bring total focus and concentration to the table.
Oh my god, that Mike Francessa’s jingle was awful
It was gay.
mel
“We wait a little longer for Cano to mature.”
It has been written and will be followed.
*bringing
SoS,
Where’ve you been? Having ankle surgery? Ouch. Sorry about that.
I don’t care what Cano does off the field either. These guys are grown men, single in these two cases, and can do whatever they want so long as they bring 100% to the field both physically and mentally. Jeter always has, from the day he showed up. Cano has demonstrated great physical talent at times but times he has also demonstrated that maybe he’s not bring total focus and concentration to the table.
No one is excusing Robi here. No one, but you have to know there is a difference w/ him and alot of other players.
not that I want to get in the middle of this whole Cano-Jeter discussion, but I find it very hard to believe that anyone can give/do/perform at 100% all the time…
This is not to excuse Cano and his own issues. But it is a little naive (or “fan boy” to use a term we hear around here a lot) to think that Jeter is this beacon of motivation etc.
“If the Yankees have to hire a coach to motivate Robbie Cano, they made the wrong decision extending him and they have the wrong type of player on the team.”
Can we just stop this fallacy about the Yankees extending him and making a mistake. He is making LESS money this year than he would have received in arbitration. The Yankees were offering Cano 3.2 million in arbitration and he requested 4.55 million. He is only making 3 million this year, and six million next year, figures he more than likely would have made anyway.
I know people on here have short memories but let’s not act like Cano is making a tremendous amount of money. Only 30 million is guaranteed.
Who here thinks he wouldn’t have made 30 million in the next four years anyway?
Sources:
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....fty-2.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....lized.html
Fatcessa admits the Yankees are done.
Atleast he has finally seen the light.
pat,
Really, I don’t know why more people don’t take the path of least resistance.
A Cano Limerick
There once was a player named Cano
Whose own talent he decided to forgo
His manager seemed to slack
while his best bud got the sack
And home early did his team have to go
“No one is excusing Robi here. No one, but you have to know there is a difference w/ him and alot of other players.”
What difference is that??? Language barrier? The way I see it, on the field, they all have the same responsibility to themselves and their team. What am I missing? Why is he different in that regard?
Cano should stay. He has potential to be great. Not only good, but great.
I have an even better question.
Do you think the Yankees will trade Robby, yes or no?
Because, kids, he he he, that’s really all that counts in life, not our personal opinions of what makes Robby tick – or what doesn’t.
My vote: Yankees will never do it.
Stick with him, you signed him to a contract, you don’t have any better options, the Padres aren’t going to offer you Peavy for him at this point, you’re not getting Lincecum from the Giants. He’s staying, whip him with the belt, and get him to get his act together like we know he can.
Who is this Reyes that Olney speaks of?
“I am thinking today that if I had a vote in the NL MVP discussion (and I don’t), I’d probably have a top 3 of Pujols, Sabathia, Reyes. Other nominations, please… “
It appears as if whenever he goes down to the DR and works with his dad, he comes back better. As for defense, maybe he needs some glasses.
everyone on this team has stunk up the “pinstripes” at one time or another this yr. I think Girardi is afraid to manage the way he did in Florida for fear of losing again!
Oh and from the same articles this isnt’ the first time that Cashman has tried to lock up position players early.
Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....lized.html
Dugout Central Is Lame –
Dugout interesting that you use the word “great”. Heyman called him the same thing. A great.
mel
“I don’t know why more people don’t take the path of least resistance.”
I always take the path of least resistance when it happens to be one I agree with.
My opinion about Robby, not that it counts for anything more than the cyberspace it appears in, is that it has nothing to do whatsoever about his value being high or low. You don’t let the kid out of your sight because he is a tremendous player with nothing but upside potential. As our hero Jon Heyman said, Robinson Cano is a great.
Anyone who wants Cano traded simply doesn’t understand baseball. They probably were the ones that thought Melky was the second coming of Mantle…
Cano has proven he can hit MLB pitching for a high average. What’s his problem this year? Um – April. He’s hitting .315 post all-star break. He has his ups and downs – but if he hit even .200 in April he’d be close to .300 and no one would be saying anything about his bat.
Yes – he needs to learn to walk more. It might never happen – but I’m willing to take my chances on a 25 year old who almost won a batting title.
mel,
No my ankle is the least of my worries. Put salt into the wound why dontcha. My boy is playing pop warner football/coaching his team(at least pretending like i know what im doing)and im off on fridays now. Plate is full unless its a choice of working or blogging. I wonder if anyone has ever given that excuse to the bankruptcy judge. Busy blogging.
Question for all. When is the last time the braves and Yanks have both been out of the playoffs in the same year?
2011 Blog Posts
“We should stick with Cano because he has lots of potential and could be an awesome player.”
Solution to Cano. Have his dad be the third base coach. Problem solved. Next.
Robi responds to his critics
Who cares what Mike Francesa thinks?
Ah the diet coke bandit is scheduling the funeral interesting
cano has 13 errors and I bet 6 of them are from lackadasical play or lack of effort..
he has a low OBP even when he hits well and is bad with RISP and this bad avg. with RISP has plagued him his whole career at the MLB level and his #’s are not quite as good as you think…
If they can get a stud CF for him I definitely think about doing it.. Cano’s act is old, BTW he cannot run the bases either and that is also a problem.. He is simply a hitter and he does his best hitting when it does not count(no one on base).
those are the facts.
John (Middlebury, VT): Yankees have alot of tough decisions to make this offseason, do you think they will re-sign Abreu, also, don’t you think they need another big bat as opposed to starting pitcher? I think age is catching up to their line-up and could use Texiera, young lefty power hitter, much more than another starting pitcher. Your thoughts?
Buster Olney: (1:27 PM ET ) John: If I were running the Yankees, it would be all about getting younger and staying flexible, and avoiding the big contracts for players like Teixeira. And I would be locked in on this: Sometime in the next two years, somebody — either someone from the farm system, or somebody acquired in a trade — must take over at shortstop. That will be the Yankees’ biggest personnel issue in 2009 and 2010.
“2011 Blog Posts
“We should stick with Cano because he has lots of potential and could be an awesome player.â€
We could replace young with under 30.
I say stay away from Teixeira. Can you imagine? He’ll lose focus after becoming an instant gazillionaire with gainful employment guaranteed for 10 years.
It’s not a question of whether Cano is or isn’t focused or whether he does or does not play hard. The question is whether trading him in the offseason can help this team.
So you make him available, see what comes back in return. If it’s an impact player or two under 30 that could help this team – starter, big bat, stud reliever – I say you trade him. If the offers aren’t tempting though, you keep him.
It’s really that simple.
LOL Pudgy is talking about how the org. got away from blue chip role players and instead aiming for star players, No this from cupcake who lobbied for big bats and star players.
” He is simply a hitter and he does his best hitting when it does not count(no one on base).”
Hmmm. They say Arod is his mentor. Interesting. I can see it now. “Unclutch jr.”
So much truth being spoken by Fat Mike today, it is painful to listen to.
“Anyone who wants Cano traded simply doesn’t understand baseball. They probably were the ones that thought Melky was the second coming of Mantle.”
ah yes, the “they prob wouldve traded (enter famous player here) before they became a star” defense.
The most frustrating part is that the hot stove season only really starts after Thanksgiving… almost 3 months away.
Robbie Cano to Milwaukee for Prince Fielder
“It’s not a question of whether Cano is or isn’t focused or whether he does or does not play hard. The question is whether trading him in the offseason can help this team. So you make him available, see what comes back in return. If it’s an impact player or two under 30 that could help this team – starter, big bat, stud reliever – I say you trade him. If the offers aren’t tempting though, you keep him.
It’s really that simple.”
^ ^ ^ exactly.
AZ Four,
But imagine the domino effect of CC opting out during the World Series!
Keep Cano if you have the fortitude to lay the necessary foundation:
1. Make sure there’s a middle infielder on the bench who can actually play second.
2. Decide what Robbie has to do in terms of performance and preparation.
3. Make sure there’s a coach who keeps track every day of what Robbie got right and got wrong in terms of performance and preparation and lets him know it.
4. When he gets it really wrong, sit him immediately, put in that bench guy, and as soon as he sits walk down the dugout and remind him calmly, explicitly, and out loud about the expectations he needs to meet.
It will work. But it takes an investment of time, thought, and energy, not just a vague hope that he’ll grow up someday.
Interesting,
Over on tigers thoughts they have been doing the Elias Type formula stuff. Andy Pettite, Chien-Ming Wang, and Mike Moose are all type A but Wang isn’t a FA. However, what about this? Offer Moose arb, if he takes it, we get him on a one year 12 or 13 mil deal. If he doesn’t chances are he will sign somewhere because he wants that 300 and we get a first rounder and sandwich pick. It is a win win for us.
It’s clear to me that this team’s problem is not Cano, but Johnny Damon. Sure, he’s a great hitter and plays hard, but he’s only in a Yankee uniform for the money, and he left his heart in boston where he could wear his hair long and make commercials with Theo epstein, and where the manager and fans loved him. He’s miscast as a Yankee, and they will never win a championship with him. They should hurry up and trade him to Texas or some team that can take on his contract. He can’t throw from the outfield and his best days are behind him. At least Cano is young. The Yankees are old. They should clean house and let the kids play. so what if they don’t win for a few years. They didn’t win from 1981 to 1996, the Mattingly years. It’s not the end of the world if they don’t win. At least we’l get to see A-Rod set records and date older women.
Robbie Cano to Milwaukee for Prince Fielder
LOL I almost thought you were serious
How did you manage to blame Girardi for Cano’s struggles? And its not fantasy baseball, people realize that you are dealing with a guy who is signed long term through his free agency years in his prime and aside from this year has been consistently a .300 hitter with ability to hit 20 hr and drive in 100rbs and thats all while hitting in at the end of the Yankee lineup as opposed to the middle of another lineup. If they were going to trade him I guarantee they could bring back value and probably young inexpensive value. Especially to get a premium bat with an above average glove at a middle infield position.
Damon isn’t that old. He can still run, has great range, and consistently hits around .300 with a good OBP. Everyone says he sucks cause of his arm but I would pick him over Melky because they have pretty similar range but Damon is a far better hitter than Melky. Just cause your arm isn’t great doesn’t mean you suck. Your arm only is a factor once or twice a game maximum but your bat is always a factor four or five times a game and personally, Damon isn’t that bad. I don’t mind trading him but saying he sucks is just wrong. Plus, if he sucks, you are not going to even get a bag of balls for him. If he sucks, no one else wants him. Be smart.
shutup brandon
Damon sucks, trade him for Lincecum!
I cant stand Damon. A true red sox. But he has been the most consistant hitter we’ve had since the end of May. Cano has been Mr. Inconsistant. Has nothing to do with age. All about whats in his head.
Maybe Girardi should have Cano stand in the corner of the dugout facing the wall after swinging at a ridiculous first pitch or an error. A time out couldnt hurt.
need more role players on this team next year such as
doug meintkeiwictz, alex cora, andy phillips, aaron guiel, chris woodward, greg zaun, miguel cairo, tony clark, chris coste, mark loretta, corey patterson, david newhan, reggie wiltis, mike lamb, nick punto, dave roberts, david eckstein etc.
we will not win until we add more of these types of players to the roster
shutup brandon
Tu Mai
trade austin jackson before it becomes obvious that hes another AAAA player
my son will pick it up next year
GO!
Kevin (not that Kevin) Brown September 2nd, 2008 at 12:48 pm
While I agree with Peter that there is no point in trading Cano now because his value has been severely diminished by this sub-par season, and while I agree with everyone on this thread that he has tremendous upside potential, my problem with Cano is more fundamental, and thus more troubling: why would a 25 year-old man, whose dream of playing major league baseball has not only come true but also with the greatest franchise in the sport, and who signed a $30 million contract before the season began – why would this individual need “to be motivated,†need “a kick in the pants,†or need “to be taken under “(the manager’s) wing as a pet project?â€
FIRST OF ALL, you’re making the assumption that he “needs to be motivated.” You’re just accepting that as true. I believe this is just the party line, and actually isn’t true. Why assume it’s motivation? He’s hitting .300 since May. He’s a superb defender who has made a couple of costly plays in the last week or so. Why are those plays definitive and not the great plays he made earlier that SAVED runs? Why? Because it’s convenient for this discussion to exist at all.
To me this speaks to a deeper issue with Cano that is not so easily addressed: either he has a sense of entitlement which shows up as both a questionable work ethic and a lack of respect for the game; or he’s just a fundamentally immature individual who doesn’t get it.
SENSE OF entitlement? Hunh?? Robinson Cano has a sense of entitlement??? Sorry, but some of the things I read on here tell me people aren’t very perceptive. If anything, he seems a bit bashful about being “the guy.” When he rocked the ball in Fenway, and Kim Jones said “your teammates say you carried this team…” what I heard was maybe a bit TOO much humility: “Ohh, I don’t want to say that…WE…” etc. He’s still a young player and he DOESN’T think of himself as some stud; THAT’S what I see. The kid is not an ********, and maybe he never will be. Doesn’t mean he can’t grow and learn and build on remarkable tools and previous performance.
All of us on this thread should put ourselves in his position – a position I assume we’ve all fantasized about – and ask ourselves this question: would we need to be motivated? Would we need a kick in the pants? Would we need to be taken under the manager’s wing? I know I wouldn’t.
MOTIVATION: I don’t think that’s the issue. Somebody jumped the gun, here.
Francessa wants to move Jeter to CF and find a slick fielding SS with good speed.
Robin who? oh, you mean the guy many here already have anointed as The Next Rod Carew.
lol
lol
lol
With Bowa coaching third last year, he was there to help push Cano. Should that be his job? Normally not (at least on a pro team) but he did have a positive effect on Cano both offensively & defensively.
With Willie Randolph coaching third, he may be able to push Cano or he may not be able to. If he can, great. But at the very least he’d help the team out in general terms simply by taking ‘Al Qaeda’ Meacham out of the 3rd base coaching box.
I hereby dub Meacham ‘Al Qaeda’ because apparently he shares their notion that sending men on suicide missions is the way to victory.
“Robbie Cano to Milwaukee for Prince Fielder
LOL I almost thought you were serious”
yeah, itd be awful to gain 30+HRs in the lineup like that… and a guy with some fire, too. they certainly dont need that in the dugout.
seriously, Damon, Jeter, ARod, Fielder. just awful.
GS September 2nd, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Anyone who wants Cano traded simply doesn’t understand baseball. They probably were the ones that thought Melky was the second coming of Mantle…
Cano has proven he can hit MLB pitching for a high average. What’s his problem this year? Um – April. He’s hitting .315 post all-star break. He has his ups and downs – but if he hit even .200 in April he’d be close to .300 and no one would be saying anything about his bat.
Yes – he needs to learn to walk more. It might never happen – but I’m willing to take my chances on a 25 year old who almost won a batting title.”
Congratulations on taking all the air out of this stupid debate. This is the most reasonable post on here. Why is this even being debated? Amen. Case closed.
Thank you.
I would think that by requiring Cano to play winter ball, he’ll come into the season with his swing already in tune.
Fatcessa questioning Joba again… saying he had no base to be a starter after throwing out of the bullpen
oh wait he has always been a starter my bad
yeah, itd be awful to gain 30+HRs in the lineup like that… and a guy with some fire, too. they certainly dont need that in the dugout.
He can’t field for nothing and is a health risk at his weight.
Johnny has been good offensively this year but how many runs has his arm cost the Yankees since he’s been back in CF. Too many runners have gone 2nd to home on base hits to CF this week.
Ford,
It wasn’t funny the first time you lol’d, much less the second time.
Good grief!
I think if the team wasn’t such a mess in general, we wouldnt really be having this discussion about Cano. Yes, he has played poorly at 2nd and also hit like crap, but he is still young. I think we need a guy like Bowa back to kick his butt and get him back in gear. but really, is the yanks falter of a season been just because of Cano? If you are going to blame someone look at the two guys making the most money– Giambi and Arod.
here comes Arroyo talk
“I would think that by requiring Cano to play winter ball, he’ll come into the season with his swing already in tune.”
He played winter ball last year.
Turn Two,
I think Brandon meant that you couldnt get Fielder for Cano. Thats atleast how i took his comment to mean.
“He can’t field for nothing and is a health risk at his weight.”
Turn Two,
Forget everything i said.
Randolph is not an upgrade as 3B coach. I’ve already seen that movie and don’t need to see the sequel.
That too SoS Milwaukee would laugh, but we would too watching this guy field day to day or go to the DH role like the last 8 acquistions
Cano got pulled out of winterball early by the Yankees, no?
Spoiling the kid.
“Francesa wants to move Jeter to CF and find a slick fielding SS with good speed.”
LOL so do about 25 other teams. Your not getting that kind of SS in FA. You have to develop one.
Jeter to CF? Sorry that’s Austin Jackson position.
i love cano i think hes just having a terrible season i wouldnt trade him i bet if he has a unbelivable september ya wouldnt wanna trade him
francesa has to get over his man-crush of Bronson Arroyo … he speaks out of both sides of his mouth … he’ll admit that the pitching has been the main culprit to the collapse in August, but then he will question why the Yankees did not get another pitcher.
… and you can’t start bringing up Joba being BACK into the bullpen like francesa just did … that would be totally dicking this kid around.
The one thing he did say that I agree with is shelving Joba for the rest of the year. Why risk further injuries by having him pitch in meaningless games in September.
austin jackson = another overrated bust to be
Trevor,
Every Yankee fan in the world had a speedy SS with power and excellent range to the left on their Christmas list last year. Makes you wonder if there really is a Santa Claus.
Oops. Sorry! Forgot that kids visit the site.
What makes anyone think Randolph is the answer to Cano? He couldnt control Reyes. What makes us think this would be any different? Time to cut the ambilical cord.
mel, please, DFox has had a tough time on the site the past few days and now you want to ruin his December too???
And here i thought Jeter improved his range this year. Losing weight and working on his range in the off season. He doesnt have as many errors and is getting to balls he couldnt get to last year. What am i missing here?
Christina
The problem is if Robbie wasn’t having such a down year we wouldn’t have noticed that Melky was and if Giambi wasn’t having such a down year we wouldn’t have noticed Jeter was and if Pettitte wasn’t having such a down year we wouldn’t have noticed that Rasner was……
The bottom line is many of these same problems or similiar problems existed last year but A-Rod and Posada’s insane years masked them.
Sterling’s beautiful play by play is being ripped by beer guts
Nick,
Excellent! (insert sound effect that ends with a bang on the hi-hat)
Francessa is killing Sterling for his homerun calls. I have to agree with this.
Excuse me on this but here is a thought on the Cano situation.
Reyes on the Mets, Milledge on the Mets, Cano, Melky, Joba etc
It seems that some of these younger players, who are animated in body language and reponses draw more negative attention than others. Reyes misses a play but dances in the dugout so he “doesnt care” (by the way I hate the Mets)
Milledge got grief for celebrating, so did Melky, Cano, and Joba. Cano has made some poor plays in the field, but he has made some great ones. Offensively, he has picked it up since the start of the season. I dont really feel a # 7 hitter can bear the bulk of responsibility for the teams offensive problems. That should fall to the RBI guys who get the most chances to win a game.
I think Girardi talks a good game but has never made Cano accountable by sitting him when he could have. I cannot believe its a motivational issue either, maybe a judgement issue at times but not motivation.
Perhaps his really strong previous seasons were exceptions, or maybe this off year is an exception. I think its insane to move him, especially since we do not have a decent replacement on the horizon.
I don’t think it’s that easy to do a HR call.
Maybe he should say, “It is high, it is long…It is…wait for it, folks…It is GONE!”
“I don’t think it’s that easy to do a HR call.”
He obviously didn’t see a couple of those homers yesterday.
Fredo,
What happened?
I think I see the issue with Cano as being just one of the many issues the Yankees have to resolve this winter. My own feeling is that he should stay. I think there’s just too much talent there to trade him away. He had three very succussful (.300+) seasons in a row before this disappointing year. I don’t think one bad season should be enough to give up on a player. A lot of teams would probably jump to take advantage of the Yankees’ mistake.
One thing I find interesting in the posts above is the issue of how Girardi does (or doesn’t) motivate his players. While they have had many injuries this year, and I like some of the things he’s done (bullpen management), I haven’t been happy with the job Joe G. has done.
I don’t like some of the control freak silliness, such as banning candy from the clubhouse (these are after all adults), and I don’t like the lieing to the press when “no comment” would do. None of this might mean anything if the team were doing well. But the fact of it is that they’re not doing well, and it’s hard to get the impression that Girardi has really captured the hearts and minds of the players. It doesn’t seem that he’s managed to get the best out of what he has.
I am not sure who is ultimately responsible for coach selection (Girardi, Cashman, Hank/Hal?), but I have to wonder how they decided on Bobby Meacham as the 3rd base coach. Not because he hasn’t been able to relate to Cano the way Larry Bowa did (something I don’t think is really his job, but more the manager’s job), but because he makes constant mistakes on the field (sending runners when he shouldn’t).
Meacham was a boneheaded player when he was with the Yankees. He was the guy you could constantly count on to make a big mistake at the worst possible time. He seems just as boneheaded as a coach. He really ought to go in the offseason.
I expect the Yankees will stick with Girardi another year. What do you all think? I personally think it would be better if he were fired.
Sterling thought Sheffield’s ball was a base hit? LOL
““Robbie Cano to Milwaukee for Prince Fielder
LOL I almost thought you were seriousâ€
yeah, itd be awful to gain 30+HRs in the lineup like that… and a guy with some fire, too. they certainly dont need that in the dugout.
seriously, Damon, Jeter, ARod, Fielder. just awful.”
LOL! You must absolutely love Giambi’s defense. I mean, Giambi’s 10x the fielder that Fielder is, lol!
Mel:
He referred to Damon’s homer as a line drive right field for a basehit. Similarly referred to Sheffield’s homer as a basehit to left center. He quite clearly lost sight of the ball in both cases. This is on top of failing to identify Cody Ransom as the hitter of a homer last week (I believe he attributed it to Nady instead). He’s getting old. His calls are borderline fiction when he sees straight. When he struggles to find the ball, it could get even worse. Maybe Suzy should start taking a few innings.
“yeah, itd be awful to gain 30+HRs in the lineup like that… and a guy with some fire, too. they certainly dont need that in the dugout.”
Fire: noun; A desire to shove a pouting teammate in full view of the cameras – see also gritty gamer
LOL! You must absolutely love Giambi’s defense. I mean, Giambi’s 10x the fielder that Fielder is, lol!
Moves like these define why we are exactly where we are.
“Being a manager isn’t rocket science”….CLEARLY…in the Yankees’ case, it doesn’t even require the IQ needed to tie your shoes.
Fire: noun; A desire to shove a pouting teammate in full view of the cameras – see also gritty gamer
GRIT
i actually just called francessa to talk about sterling
He is a horrible announcer who not only misses calls but makes a game almost insufferable. Radio (in my opinion) is a medium where the announcer should pain a picture with his words a la a vin scully or howie rose. A town like New York simply deserves better than the junk they are getting from sterling and waldman.
jackson is overrated here
he hit .285 with 9 HRs, only stole 19 bases, and struck out 113 times in 130 games. what is so impressive about him?
a nice player but untouchable or a guy who should be penciled into a yankee lineup. not a guy who is going to be an all-star. he might be mike cameron with less power but more BA. .270 BA, 120+ strikeouts, 25 SBs, 15 HRs.
jose tabata was better than jackson. younger, good understanding of the k-zone, same speed more power and a .310 hitter.
This caller is right
Lackey, however, is not a free agent smarten up
Why does a player need to be coaxed, coddled, or babied in order to recognize and play up to their potential ?
Look at the rest of the roster. Did any of them need kid gloves treatment in their 3rd year in the big leagues ?
Hideki Matsui wasn’t brought through the farm system and made adjustments to an entirely new culture and teammates in his very first season and injuries notwithstanding, plays professionally every day.
How long is this team and it’s fans supposed to wait and see if Cano will finally mature and be ready to play every day ?
All accounts show he doesn’t possess the mental toughness up to this point in his career. Wannabes need not apply.
“A town like New York simply deserves better than the junk they are getting from sterling and waldman.”
100% agree – good call. All schtick and no concept of telling the listener wtf is happening.
I know some are talking about Sterling and Suzyn, but I would like to see Yes have 1 team like SNY does. I think Darling and Keith are great. I think Gary is a great play by play, but he loves the Mets to much for my taste haha.
100% agree – good call. All schtick and no concept of telling the listener wtf is happening.
Sterling: “As were getting set, Roger Clemens takes the mound, in 9 starts he carries an over 4 ERA… not bad for the Rocket”
Suzyn: “Ah.. John that’s Sidney Ponson”
Sterling: “Oh..why excuse me, whoa how did that get there…hmm wonder how that ever happened, my mistake it’s Sidney Ponson taking the mound not Roger Clemens my mistake, I seriously can’t believe how that happened, well my mistake”
Suzyn: …reaching for the pills…
“he hit .285 with 9 HRs, only stole 19 bases, and struck out 113 times in 130 games. what is so impressive about him?”
For a developing 21 yr old and in a very pitcher friendly league, these numbers are quite good.
I am actually visuallly impaired and rely on the radio more than most. I am going to write a letter to 880 and voice to them how unhappy i am with what i listen to on their airwaves from sterling and waldman. I have listened to GOOD radio, a la scully, who literally paints a picture with his words and lets your imagination run wild. This lets the theater of your imagination envision what is happening. With sterling and and his companera waldman, all you get is garbage. Nothing more nothing less.
Cano must go. There is no Torre or Bowa to kick him in the pants. Girardi seems totally incapable of doing it, or getting any respect from the players. Unless Bowa, Valentine, Leyland or Piniella become manager (not going to happen) he has to go, and he will bring back a decent return because of his “potential”, and there is always someone who thinks he can fix him. hen sign Orlando Hudson or someone else who will make the plays, likes to play, and will at least be proficient in situational hitting. Keeping Cano is a HUGE mistake. Cashman and Girardi also have to go, and management has to make the break with the mid to late nineties and start to make some bold moves with the pitching staff and the positional players, or its Horace Clarke, Jerry Kenney and Johnny Keane all over again. Also, their farm system does stink, except for Joba. There is not one decent positional player, and the pitching has been horribly overrated. All free agents have to walk for young talented players, and CC Sabathis is a must. Forget Teixera and go after a guy like Joey Votto and sign Orlando Hudson. The best they could do was bring up Chad Moeller and Phil Coke? Give me a break.
“all you get is garbage. Nothing more nothing less.”
‘And that post by jon is the 1500th post brought to you by Geico’
(that is another thing that makes the radio insufferable – but I guess that is the way things have gotten with every team’s broadcast)
Then there is this
Sterling: “It is high ! It is far ! It issssssssssssssssssss, gone !, No wait did he catch that !, oh I’m sorry folks what an amazing grab at the CF warning track by ……, just amazing I thought it was gone …didn’t it look gone too you Suzyn ?”
Waldman: “Just a remarkable play by CF I can see how we would have thought that ball was gone especially w/ the sound of the crack of the bat” …Suzyn reaches for the Jim Bean think (will he ever get one right)…
I think most Yankee fans understand that Cano will be one of the premier 2nd basemen over the next 7 years and that the Yankees won’t get enough in return to make a trade worth their while. It is frustrating that Cano set the bar so high two years ago and hasn’t replicated that production. He obviously has the talent to do that, and hopefully having such a poor season and missing the playoffs will cause him to respond with a great year in the new stadium.
The simple solution is to have Cano work with Arod in the off-season. Majority of you hate ARod right now, but you know he works his butt off in the off-season and I think if Cano is serious about getting in shape and prepared to start the season w/ a furious start, this would work. ARod works out non-stop in the off-season and he could motivate Cano to fulfill his potential for the Yankees in 2009.
I don’t know how you can answer stay or go without knowing what the market is for him. I like Cano. I think he’s going to have a great career. I’d like it to be in a Yankee uniform. That said, he is one of the few players the Yankees have who has trade value and I don’t want to see them try to field the same team next year.
Is Pete saying that Cano wouldn’t fetch a player of Casey Kotchman skill level in return? That seems crazy. I wouldn’t even consider trading Cano for Kotchman. Kotchman’s a career .267 hitter with no power. His value may have dropped but I can’t see it being that low.
Little more on the “overrated” Austin Jackson. He finished 4th in the Eastern League in runs, 3rd in hits and 4th in doubles. This in a league where he is generally 2-3 years younger than most of his competition.
Black Yankee,
Great post.
How will folks here feel if Cano is traded and 3 years from now fullfills his potential and hits .325 with 95 rbi ?
It’s not like Robbie Cano is the second coming of Jerry Kenney or Horace Clarke. He’s 25 years old and people are ready to give up on him. Many of the same people who want Cano gone were the ones that preached patience last winter during Santanamania.
The Yankees minor league system produces next to nothing in the way of position players. Nothing in baseball is more overhyped than Yankee prospects.The only way I’d trade Robinson Cano is if he’s included in a blockbuster that meets at least 2 of their needs.
Ummm maybe I missed something but don’t the Yanks have bigger problems than Cano? Like maybe the freakin’ pitching? Cano is way down on the list of problems…our lack of pitching now that’s what I’m trippin’ over, not Cano!
Austin Jackson hasn’t even played a game in the majors and he’s already overrated? Such smart fans. I’ll take his upside over Ellsbury thank you very much.
“I would have no problem packaging Cano and some of our minor league pitching prospects to Philadelphia if it brings back Howard.”
For some reason I think that the amount of times that Ryan Howard strikes out wouldn’t fly in New York…
Folks forget about that gangly outfielder that came up in 1990. The word on him was that he wasnt always focussed. At age 24 he had only .268 with a low obp with 12 homers and 57 rbi in 139 games.
A lot of you folks would have been screaming to get rid of Bernie Williams after the 1993 season.
Trading Cano is definitely not the answer to any question that is in front of the Yankees this winter. Lets all chill out those knee-jerks.
Tony Clark? The human strike zone? He stinks.
Bernie in year 3 he had a .333 OBP % he didn’t improve in BB totals until he was 27
Also, why would Philly trade Howard for another second baseman when they have Chase Utley?
Poor Jon having to rely on Sterling and his awful game calling. There is nothing like listening to a baseball game on the radio and yet for some reason we are stuck with those two clowns. It’s an outrage. One is an incompetent buffoon and the other is an insufferable cheery bore. A horrendous pair if there ever was one.
“Austin Jackson hasn’t even played a game in the majors and he’s already overrated? Such smart fans. I’ll take his upside over Ellsbury thank you very much.”
overrated as a prospect. it happens. “the next “… (not that i agree in this case)
i think most people would probably take his upside over Ellsbury’s.
oh, and as for Sterling, it’s a shame that when I drive and have to listen to a game, I usually talk to find afterwards to find out the real story.
it’s usually something like:
me “did the umpire blow it as bad as Sterling said?”
dad “which play?”
me “guess not”
Thing is, maybe someone is “putting the hammer down.” Maybe the Girardi regime belives in doing this behind closed doors rather than through the media.
believes that is..
A horrendous pair if there ever was one.
Horrendous is too nice a word.
Robbie Cano, don’cha know!
“dan 771
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:49 pm
need more role players on this team next year such as
doug meintkeiwictz, alex cora, andy phillips, aaron guiel, chris woodward, greg zaun, miguel cairo, tony clark, chris coste, mark loretta, corey patterson, david newhan, reggie wiltis, mike lamb, nick punto, dave roberts, david eckstein etc.
we will not win until we add more of these types of players to the roster”
Excellent. So I would theoretically get to root for the Scrappee’s instead of the Yankees?
“Ummm maybe I missed something but don’t the Yanks have bigger problems than Cano? Like maybe the freakin’ pitching? Cano is way down on the list of problems…our lack of pitching now that’s what I’m trippin’ over, not Cano!”
Very good point Jeter girl.
I think an even better point is that these days the Yankees aren’t thinking beyond the game in front of them – as it should be. But I guess armchair GMs never stop making trades!
as for Cano, keep him. don’t sell low.
as for other teams that may be selling low on a player who’s coming off of one bad season and has a ton of potential, who are these teams/players? and which ones will perform best in 2009?
“LOL! You must absolutely love Giambi’s defense. I mean, Giambi’s 10x the fielder that Fielder is, lol!”
actually, thats fine by me. if you can give me Fielder’s offense, i’ll take his defense.
“Moves like these define why we are exactly where we are.”
and no, thats not what got this team to where it is now. bad pitching and lack of timely hitting from aging, past-their-prime veterans got this team to where it is now.
“But I guess armchair GMs never stop making trades!”
lol
i blame the internet and day-trading
“Fire: noun; A desire to shove a pouting teammate in full view of the cameras – see also gritty gamer ”
and do you know why he did that? because he felt like the pitcher should stay in teh dugout to support the pitcher who took his place on teh mound, and his other teammates for the game rather than disappear into the clubhouse.
and then afterwards, he apologized to the pitcher, and his teammates, and then publically, and there hasnt been a problem since.
sometimes you need a little ass-kickin to wake everyone up.
There’s knee jerk reactions on both sides of the argument. The Yankees shouldn’t dump Cano but nor should they refuse to even discuss trading him.
For those who seem to oppose trading him, do you like the makeup of this team? Who would you be willing to trade? Would anyone other than Rivera, Wang, Joba, Hughes (Questionable), Cano, Montero, or AJAX be likely to bring much in a trade without the Yankees eating a lot of salary? My guess is probably not.
We can all argue that the Yankees should go hard after CC as a free agent but chances are he’s going somewhere else. You have to be realistic and at least listen to offers for some of the guys that you don’t really want to trade.
It would be hard for me to believe that some coach, player, manager, or GM hasn’t already had a “chat” with Cano about his approach at the plate and his lack concentration on the field.
The Yankees in the offseason will certainly listen to offers for Cano, and might even initiate them, but unless you fill needs by trading him, and have a good alternative to play 2nd base, plus not having to pay part of his salary, they will keep him.
Enough already on Cano:
If Pettitte is a Type A-ask him to decline arbitration.
If Mussina is indeed a Type A-offer arbitration
If Abreu is a Type A-offer arbitration and hope he’s looking for a 3 year deal, in which case the Yankees shouldn’t be interested.
The rest of the FA’s-goodbye.
Get two young durable starters in FA market if possible.
BG, well put. I’d “field offers” on Cano, but i wouldn’t “shop” him.
I think Nady would bring back something worthwile in the offseason. Sell high. Resign Abreu.
I think there’s a difference between Bernie’s early struggles and Cano’s.
Bernie never had the early career success that Cano had with the bat.
He improved his numbers ever year and clearly was a player building into something bigger.
Cano has seemed to take steps back as a player. His power numbers, his batting avg., some of the silly plays in the field and the fact that the Yankees can’t bat him in an important spot in the batting order.
Bernie made rookie mistakes — no doubt about it, but he was also mercilessly hazed by Mel Hall and others when he came up for being a quiet shy guy.
Cano came out of the gates swinging a .300 bat, was embraced as a member of the team, called the next Carew, etc.
Bernie’s numbers never took the step back Cano took this year at this stage in his game.
The reason anyone is questioning Cano is that we’ve seen him at his best and still thought the best was yet to come…now some of us are worried that he’ll never improve upon those early years and we’re destined to see more seasons like this where he is undisciplined at the plate and in the field.
Once Bernie gained his confidence, he was a force. Cano never seemed to lack confidence and still doesn’t while he is playing the worst season of his career right now.
At some point you have to stop giving the guy a pass for heating up after the all star break.
The reason we start the year in a hole every season is too many important pieces of this team don’t turn it on until mid-season.
That’s the culture that needs to change on this team.
There needs to be a culture of urgency and the attitude that they want to decimate the competition rather than just hang in there long enough to get hot and squeak into the post season.
That’s not all on Cano. I think the vets on the team have handed down that expectation/attitude to him, but you have to wonder if Cano will ever be able to change having grown up in an atmosphere of millionaires who don’t seem upset when they start the season poorly and seem to expect the other millionaires on the team to pick up the slack for them.
S.o.S.27(Tina Fay for VP?)
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:33 pm
†He is simply a hitter and he does his best hitting when it does not count(no one on base).â€
Hmmm. They say Arod is his mentor. Interesting. I can see it now. “Unclutch jr.â€
____________________________________________________
You’ve sunk as low as you’ll ever go when you start quoting and agreeing with Stuart Little.
“There needs to be a culture of urgency and the attitude that they want to decimate the competition rather than just hang in there long enough to get hot and squeak into the post season.”
Now with this I couldn’t agree more. I couldn’t sell this to the crew on the Times except for one poster but I have long thought that the Yankees lost their hunger when they had so many successful seasons in a row. Then it was like they couldn’t get up for the fight unless it was a certain team. Now it’s like they can’t get up for the fight unless their lives are on the line. And wearing the pinstripes gives them a certain cachet that can’t be taken away from them – not a good thing in those circumstances.
I don’t know how you change that mentality by the way.
choices choices
SWB is playing the Pawsux the next two nights at McCoy Stadium, which is all of about 10 minutes from my home. Do I want to go and watch those games or do I want to watch the TB series? I really don’t know. The Yankee games interest me more at this point in the season, but maybe it would be good to have SWB have a good cheering section (though when I’ve been to McCoy before I can tell you there were a lot of Y fans there to see SWB.)
Didn’t mean to bold the whole thing. Sorry.
Peter, you’re accurate on keeping Cano. Many of the bloggers calling for trading Cano have also called for: Melky/ARod/Giambi/Matsui/Mussina/et al, to be traded – depending upon the depth of their respective “slumps”;
Mentioned that Mariano, Pettite, Mussina were “washed up” depending (of course) on what pitching malaise they were experiencing at the time.
Cano is one of the few young, athletic, budding, talents that still remain on this team. Perhaps luring Bowa or even Willie Randolph to replace meacham can have a profound affect on Robbie’s attitude.
trisha:
I envy you! Anytime I have a chance to see AA/AAA games live I would jump at the chance! (Syracuse – 160 miles away is the closest to AAA; )
Tape the game(s) and go see the SWB Yankees LIVE!
Latham Joe – I think you hit it on the head. Thanks!
Trisha,
I think you change the mentality by changing the majority of the players. Damon, Abreu, Giambi are 3 of the biggest parts, I believe, of that mentality.
The mentality that, “it’s okay, it’s a long season”.
I think Cano has come up with this mentality ruling the locker room and I think it’s filtered down to him and his game.
It even filtered to Melky. Think about it, he was stunned and had no idea his roster spot was in trouble when he was demoted yet he was playing so poorly. Maybe the voices in the locker room kept telling him, “don’t worry, it’s a long season, we all have streaks”…etc.
And for the record, I’d lump Jeter in as one of the voices, although I still think in his heart he wants to win the division every year and not just do enough to qualify.
The players HAVE to change. The culture has to change here.
This off season is an opportunity to shed some of these vets who think this way.
If Cano goes in a deal for something else that we need and can change the culture in the locker room, so be it.
They changed the manager. That didn’t work.
Now it’s time to change the players.
If that means Cano, oh well.
It’s time to change the attitude about the season and their jobs that pervades the locker room right now.
You don’t want any other young kids in the organization to get tainted by it.
Like it or not, Cano will be shopped this winter. His seemingly lackadaisical attitude and underachieving inconsistencies are just too much… I’ll take an overachieving Dustin Pedroia every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
But the Yankees will not give him away, and certainly not for a first baseman (i.e. Prince Fielder). It will take top pitching talent to pry him from the Yankees and it may well happen. But his contract makes it more difficult.
Cano is going nowhere. The Yankees will NOT get equal value for his talent and will attempt to change his attitude through the coaches and teammates. Its kinda funny, but when Cano is making spectacluar plays and hitting the cover off the ball – with the same casual style of play (Carew, Tony Fernandez had the same style) you never hear anybody complaining. Why is that sports fans?????
Mel:
Belatedly, and thanks for you response: Not perfect, just professional.
I have a problem with Cano needing to be ‘motivated.’ The question is until when? Larry Bowa did his best (to the point of not talking to Cano after a play in which he decided to ignore his signs). A-Rod has said that both him and Jeter are constantly giving him advice. It’s been reported that Jeter tried to give him batting advice about not pulling the ball, which he promptly dismised saying “you also pull the ball.” So, when do you draw the line? Girardi doesn’t seem to be doing his job by encouranging Cano to keep playing like he does.
I personally can do without so much ’smoothness’ and plays ‘a-la-Alomar’ (as Girardi claims) and would welcome more professionalism. And I think Cano would still carry weight in a trade. And as for who would play 2nd base: there are many options out there who can cover the position until the Yankees develop a player from the farm. (Orlando Hudson comes to mind.) So, I would trade Cano if the opportunity presents in the off-season.
keep cano u will be wearing his joyze by 2011!
I wanted Cano packaged in a deal last season when he batted .300 for a top pitching talent (which was on the block). Now there’s no way that deal is happening and boy was it a big one. I believe virtually every yankee fan wanted to keep Cano instead. I’m just laughing my ass off of everyone that said that.
Cano can obviously hit way better than he’s showing right now. Was it last year or 2 years ago that he finished the season with a BA of .342. I dont know what you guys think but i think thats pretty damn good. We know he has it in him, he juss needs to prove it…..and fast.
Also, can we get some more news on the yankees plans for this offseason as far as free agents and trading? Because i hope they make some major changes for the ‘09 season. Do you think we could get both Sabathia and Burnett?
I agree, do not trade him this off season.
His April was the worst of any player in the league as he was dead last in VORP (out of around 600 players).
Since then, he has put up very respectable numbers for a 2b. And since June 24th, as seen at RLYW, Cano has been on fire.
But its bad luck. His LD% is better than last year’s and he has been robbed of around 20 hits. Factor in those hits as singles, his OPS is .790. Factor in about 6 doubles, his OPS is over .800. So yeah, he must be a sinner or something with that luck.
What I hate though, is his defense. As late as the end of July, he was the second best 2b in baseball behind Ellis- and he had a hold on second by a lot (in ZR and the +/- system). Now, he is just about dead last- all it took was a month. WOW.
Cano/Kennedy for Kemp.
Orlando Hudson signed to play 2B and hit leadoff.
If the kid had the right attitude and was willing to take responsibility for his lousy performance, I would have more compassion for him.
But from what I hear, he is an excuse making, young punkass lazy little prick.
I say send him on his way this winter.
Maybe Bowa should’ve come back a few weeks ago and put A-Rod in that cage as well.
Oh, and soon’s we trade him–if we should be so precipitous–he’ll hit .320/.380/.500 and whoever we get in return’ll hit the DL.
Down on Cano and his mental approach to the game. Orlando Hudson is a free agent. Were the Yanks to sign Hudson (who has 3 Gold Gloves and was hitting .305 before going on the DL) and use Cano to fill other needs (explore that Cano for Kemp deal with LA? Yanks need to upgrade CF), I would not be opposed.
DB September 2nd, 2008 at 5:54 pm
I have a problem with Cano needing to be ‘motivated.’ The question is until when? Larry Bowa did his best (to the point of not talking to Cano after a play in which he decided to ignore his signs). A-Rod has said that both him and Jeter are constantly giving him advice. It’s been reported that Jeter tried to give him batting advice about not pulling
the ball, which he promptly dismised saying “you also pull the ball.â€
THIS IS DUMB. Cano said in an interview that he was following Derek’s advice to “just try to hit the ball over second base…” and that was what he was focused on. He said it was helping him, and he began his climb back to a better average since then. You are taking a quote out of context and leaping to the conclusion that he was rejecting Jeter out of hand. What purpose does this serve? Your own biases? If you’re going to bring it up, don’t pretend as if that was the end of the tutelage.
So, when do you draw the line?
YOU DON’T draw the line on a bogus conclusion and WE don’t draw the line on a 25 year old w/super star potential. That’s how teams are RUINED, by getting rid of great young players.
I personally can do without so much ’smoothness’ and plays ‘a-la-Alomar’ (as Girardi claims) and would welcome more professionalism.
DO WITHOUT so much ’smoothness’?? You don’t understand athletic ability. You’re ridiculous, really. He’s supposed to somehow rid himself of natural ability, which you derisively call “smoothness.” Because YOU’D rather see “more professionalism.” They’re not mutually exclusive…being smooth and being professional. In fact, this makes absolutely no sense, AT ALL.
. (Orlando Hudson comes to mind.) So, I would trade Cano if the opportunity presents in the off-season.
WELL thank goodness you’re not the GM. Why don’t you add Joba and Hughes while you’re at it, and get 30-plus year old replacements for them to compliment the 30-plus year old Orlando Hudson.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:09 am
Down on Cano and his mental approach to the game. Orlando Hudson is a free agent. Were the Yanks to sign Hudson (who has 3 Gold Gloves and was hitting .305 BEFORE GOING ON THE DL (imagine italics here) and use Cano to fill other needs (explore that Cano for Kemp deal with LA? Yanks need to upgrade CF), I would not be opposed.
REALLY, some of the posters here are so easy to pick apart. Hey genius, it wasn’t enough for you to see Matsui, Sheffield, Posada, Jeter, Damon, etc. “ON THE DL” over the past couple of years? What part of “aging body, more DL time” do you not get?? LMAO.
Let’s just MAKE SURE we don’t cut any slack to our younger players, scuttle their development and toss them on the heap in FAVOR of guys over 30. You’re a genius, my friend.
Hitman September 2nd, 2008 at 7:05 pm
I wanted Cano packaged in a deal last season when he batted .300 for a top pitching talent (which was on the block). Now there’s no way that deal is happening and boy was it a big one. I believe virtually every yankee fan wanted to keep Cano instead. I’m just laughing my ass off of everyone that said that.
You’re “laughing your *** off” that everyone wants to keep a 25 year old player who will wind up a career .300 hitter and a gold glover?
Yeah, I see your point. Hilarious.
Maybe you should take up bowling.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:09 am
Down on Cano and his mental approach to the game. Orlando Hudson is a free agent. Were the Yanks to sign Hudson (who has 3 Gold Gloves and was hitting .305 BEFORE GOING ON THE DL (imagine italics here) and use Cano to fill other needs (explore that Cano for Kemp deal with LA? Yanks need to upgrade CF), I would not be opposed.
REALLY, some of the posters here are so easy to pick apart. Hey genius, it wasn’t enough for you to see Matsui, Sheffield, Posada, Jeter, Damon, etc. “ON THE DL†over the past couple of years? What part of “aging body, more DL time†do you not get?? LMAO.
Let’s just MAKE SURE we don’t cut any slack to our younger players, scuttle their development and toss them on the heap in FAVOR of guys over 30. You’re a genius, my friend.
I did see it. I wrote about it THREE years ago. Hudson isn’t that old. He is currently just 30. Now if you were talking 34 or over like the others you mention, that’s different. Huge difference between 30 and 34 “genius”. (Use a real name, swami). Prior to this year he didn’t spend much time on the DL at all. 130 or more games each year from 2003 on. I’m all for our younger players, and have written about it continuously. I was one of the first people EVER to promote Joba, before others ever heard of him…as well as some others.
BTW, regarding youth? Did you bother to read the 2nd half of what I previously wrote? About using Cano for Kemp? Check the youth on Matt Kemp, please. Not 24 yet. Don’t talk to me about youth.
i really dont think trading cano will help the team at all.
what they really need to focus on during the offseason is pitching.
robbie has the potential to be the best player on this team. coaches and fellow teammates just need to make sure they stay on top of him.. he needs to be pushed and constantly reminded to do his very best every single day. Because people except so much from robbie, let alone this team, since they both didnt meet there standards, everyone has maximized robbies underachieved season. When giradi finally put his foot down, cano stepped his game up tramedously and basically carried the team to complete the season. This whole team has had problems this year, between injuries; lack of hussel and clutch hitting that everyone contributed to,thats why the blame should not be pin pointed on cano. He cant be expected to play perfect everyday. everyone has a bad season and this was his.