Damon nominated for Clemente Award
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- September
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This press release from the Yankees and Major League Baseball:
Johnny Damon today was named the New York Yankees’ recipient of the 2008 Roberto Clemente Award. He is one of 30 Major League Club nominees for the national 2008 Roberto Clemente Award, which is given annually to the Major League Baseball player who combines outstanding skills on the baseball field with devoted work in the community.
The Roberto Clemente Award recognizes those players who best represent the game of baseball through sportsmanship, community involvement and positive contributions to their teams. The award is named for Clemente, a 12-time All-Star and Hall of Famer who died on New Year’s Eve 1972 while attempting to deliver supplies to earthquake victims in Nicaragua. This award perpetuates Clemente’s legacy and character by recognizing current-day players who truly understand the value of helping others.
Fans are encouraged to participate in the selection of the national winner of the Roberto Clemente Award. From September 3 through October 5, 2008, fans can log on to www.chevy.com/clemente and vote for one of the 30 club nominees.
Damon, 34, is a national spokesman for the Wounded Warrior Project, which provides programs designed to ease the burdens of severely injured servicemen, servicewomen and their families by smoothing the transition back to civilian life. Rallying as many teammates as possible to join him, Damon is a regular visitor to many veterans hospitals, including Walter Reed Army Hospital in Washington D.C., and the Tampa VA Hospital, where veterans with traumatic brain injuries are brought for long-term rehabilitation.
Damon also serves as the Yankees’ Home Run Captain for the Children’s Health Fund, which brings quality health care to the nation’s most medically disadvantaged children in rural and urban areas. He donates money to the organization for each home run the Yankees hit as a team in both the regular season and postseason.
In 2006, he established the Johnny Damon Foundation, which assists local and national programs that provide leadership and growth opportunities for disadvantaged and at-risk children. He hosts the annual Johnny Damon Celebrity Golf Classic, along with the “Johnny Jam†reception, which includes live musical performances, comedy routines and live and silent auctions that raise money for Orlando, Fla., based charities.
During this past offseason, Johnny and his wife, Michelle, were goodwill ambassadors in a U.S. State Department sponsored trip around the world. While visiting Thailand, his mother’s native country, Johnny and his family shared in a luncheon for more than 100 orphans at the Rajvithi Home for Girls. Damon met with children from the International School of Bangkok, instructing them on the game of baseball while also encouraging them to stay in school and stressing the importance of education.
Damon was honored with the Joan Payson Memorial Award for Community Service from the New York Chapter of the Baseball Writers Association of America in January 2008. His community efforts have also included visits to young cancer patients at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York City, as well as supporting the St. Joseph’s School for the Blind with appearances and fundraising. He is also a special contributor to Tanglewood Acres, a Rockland County, N.Y., center supporting children and adults suffering from mental retardation and developmental disabilities.
The fan vote winner will be tallied as one vote among those cast by the selection panel, which includes Vera Clemente, wife of the late Hall of Famer, and Baseball Commissioner Allan H. (Bud) Selig. Participating fans automatically will be registered for a chance to win a trip to Game Three of the 2008 World Series, where the national winner of the Roberto Clemente Award will be announced.
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If you’re so inspired, click over to that site and vote for Johnny. I wouldn’t tell you this unless I believed it, but he is deserving of this award. Johnny makes a legitimate effort to reach out to people in need because he wants to, not because it makes him look good.
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on Wednesday, September 3rd, 2008 at 4:28 am by Peter Abraham.
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He’s also an excellent leadoff hitter and a good, 4-tool player. Hopefully he’ll be back to ignite the offense, provide leadership and a good example to the youngsters next season and beyond. I’m sure he will.
What a great guy, I like him and a player and more as a person now. We should not be inspired by him other players should be inspired by him. #1
Impressive. I certainly think he sounds deserving of the recognition.
Johnny Damon is a great Yankee ( I can’t believe that I am typing that )
so we are 2-0 to start this 10 game road trip….just 6, 7 or 8 more road victories on this trip and we are RIGHT back in it ! ( LOL….I’ll NOT be surprised if we win only 1 more and finish 3-7 for the trip )
Damon is great, I was at a game in Baltimore and they had this girl run from the bullpen and take out second base and a Oriole worker puts a new base in. She had 1 minute to get the base out and back to the bullpen. The girl was having trouble getting the base out. Time was ticking and she was gettign frustrated until Mr. Johnny Damon who was on his way to center field decided to come over and help the girl get the base out. She got the base out takes to Damon and she ran back to the bullpen and made it with like a few seonds to spare. I never heard so many Orioles fans cheering for Damon and saying how nice of a guy he is. Damon is a great ambassador for the game and thank god he is a yankee.
Damon does seem like one of those who really gets it.
T.J. I was there for that, that was hilarious. That game was unfair how was that little 6 year old suppose to pick up the base out of the ground anyways, Johnny to the rescue!
Damon is one of the truly nice guys in the league. He knows a lot of the stadium vendors by name. There just aren’t all that many players who even notice the working stiffs, and yet Damon gets their names and says hello.
I know his skills are in decline, somewhat, but I certainly hope he doesn’t get traded. Even when the team is down, as they have been this year, he is the type of guy you root for.
It doesn’t hurt that he still swings a pretty mean bat either.
so over the next 7 road games, we get Rasner twice and Pontoon Butt once….so HOW in HALE we win more than 2 or 3 of the next 7 games is beyond me, when those 2 slugs will do their best to make sure that we lose all three of their starts….
“Let’s Do it For Johnny”—Dallas “Dally” Winston.
Aceves?
Geise?
Maybe Giese/Joba?
I would think one of those might be a good fill in if Girardi would get the stick out of his arse.
From the NY Times:
“The Yankees still view Chamberlain, who turns 23 this month, as a starter in the long term. But while Manager Joe Girardi said this season had not stunted Chamberlain’s progress, Cashman acknowledged that it had.”
More Girardi BS – can’t even get his facts straight with his GM…
Same article: Re Phil Coke’s 96 MPH fastball
“I was talking to my dad, and he said: ‘What’s gotten into you? You hit 96!’ †Coke said. “The guys in the dugout were telling me the same thing, but I thought they were messing with me. I was just trying to hang on to the ball. That’s all I wanted to do: hang on to the ball and play catch with Pudge.â€
wonder if he can keep it at 96…?
“More Girardi BS – can’t even get his facts straight with his GM…”
More Cashman’s fault than Girardi’s. It’s Cashman’s job to make sure they are on the same page on issues like that.
to be honest, all this joba planning really seems a little crazy to me, and counterproductive to his overall development.
i know we all want to see him pitch, and pitch well, and show that he’s healthy, but going from the rotation to the bullpen lats year, then start in the bullpen this year and go to the rotation, and get hurt and come back to the bullpen to finish the season… really? this is better for him?
i’d rather them shut him down for the season, strengthen him arm and get him more rest, and send him to the Arizona Fall League or to winter ball to get him the innings he missed.
then you start him in the rotation in Scranton for the beginning of the season next year, keep him to 5 innings or so a start to let him work on all of his pitches but limit his total workload, and then call him up after a month or so for the rest of the season, and hope he can prove he can stay healthy.
it sucks, because he is definitely good enough to pitch at the MLB level, but its the only way you are going to find out if his arm/shoulder is strong enough to last a full season, or if he’s destined to be a back of the bullpen guy.
you gotta find out soon.
one hiccup again next year like he had this year, and we’re doing the same thing again in 2010.
Damon was a class act in his years in Boston, and I was one of many fans who was disappointed to see him go. Sox’ management was convinced that he couldn’t hold up (physically) in CF for the length of his contract ….. and they had groomed Elsbury as his replacement. So a business decision was made. Nonetheless, there’s little to dislike about Damon, on and off the field.
i know it may make some sense for the yankees to move damon if they can get a couple decent prospects for him after the season, but i dont think itd be a wise idea…
i used to, but i think moving Matsui is more of an option than moving Damon, because they can replace Matsui with Posada coming back, but they dont have anyone who can hit like Damon at the top of the order in front of the big bats.
Brian (Red Sox fan) –
During that dismal (for Yankees fans) 2004, Damon made an appearance on Letterman (I think). Prior to that my sister and I had had a couple of conversations about how impressive Johnny Damon was (as a team spokesperson) and it was too bad he was on the Red Sox. The Letterman appearance just made me hope that he may end up being a Yankee someday, as crazy as it sounded at the time.
Damon remains one of my favorite ballplayers and will be even after he inevitably moves on (to another team one day or retirement). I hope he makes the cut this post-season and he gets one more season here.
Damon’s skills are in decline? He’s been one of the best hitters on our team, and he hasn’t lost a step in the outfield either. If his skills are declining no ones told him.
Turn Two –
That’s pretty much how my though process is going regarding Matsui/Damon. My husband and I were talking last night and we thought that of the three (including Abreu), Matsui is the more likely to go.
The really kind of sad thing is that each one of them, when healthy and performing well, offers something different to the lineup that will not be easy to replace. Right now, there is no heir apparent to the lead-off position. Abreu still gets on base and gets his rbis (even in this not-so-great season), his wallophopia notwithstanding. Matsui is a situational, clutch hitter when healthy, but it would be a gamble at this point to think that he will be healthy all of next season after this second knee surgery (albeit on a different knee).
So much depends on what particular moves are made to upgrade here and/or there. I don’t envy Brian Cashman (or if he doesn’t re-up, whoever else) the job that has to be done this winter. Because it is going to be difficult to assess who is really done (as opposed to simply on the declining side of their career), whether and which free agents to pursue, and still stick to the long-term plans by spending money to even further upgrade the system.
and thats not to say Matsui has to go, but i dont see them keeping the logjam at DH there, especially if Jorge cant catch.
and if Matsui stays, and can remain healthy, he can be counted on the produce in teh lineup. you jut dont know whether or not right now you can take that risk.
but it is good, at least for his trade value, that he was able to rehab and come back and play the last 6 weeks of the season.
i like Matsui a lot. i think that he plays for the right reasons, and can be counted on to always put forth his best effort. i just dont know if its best that he stay, and play out his current deal and then move on, or if the Yankees should cut ties now, get some prospects in return, and continue to build toward the future.
like you, Doreen, i definitely dont envy Cashman (or the team’s GM) this offseason. a lot of tough decisions to be made.
Doreen,
We certainly agree on Damon. Ironically, he’s not particularly articulate, but he is a viable team “spokesman” because he is genuine.
And he is still an excellent offensive player. All in all, the Yankees got good value when they signed him (at least in comparison to some of their other contracts).
“Fernando Alejandro (Respect Jeter’s Gangster)
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:00 am
Damon’s skills are in decline? He’s been one of the best hitters on our team, and he hasn’t lost a step in the outfield either. If his skills are declining no ones told him.”
With his arm being even worse (probably thanks to running into the wall during that BoSux game) and how often he was playing hurt or on the day to day list, yes, his skills are declining some.
Also, I guess you didn’t see those two dropped balls during the Toronto game, or was Damon always that bad catching fairly routine fly balls?
“All in all, the Yankees got good value when they signed him (at least in comparison to some of their other contracts).”
agreed. although he was originally viewed as the full time CF and had to move from the position, i saw his signing more important in terms of offensive production he’d help bring to the lineup, and what he brought to the clubhouse, as more important than his defense.
The more you see this stuff with Joba, the more you have to ask yourself, what’s the best plan for him?
I fail to see how bouncing him around from the bullpen to the rotation for another year is good for him or the team.
Given the fact that the Yankees do a horrible job in developing their own pitchers and keeping them healthy, its pretty tough to buy into their plan for him.
If Joba’s shoulder can’t handle a starters workload, then just keep him in the bullpen. Mariano isn’t getting any younger and maybe his future is as the closer of the Yankees Post-Mariano.
What they can’t do again is bounce him back and forth between the ‘pen and the rotation. That’s counterproductive to everybody involved.
They have so many off-season questions, we could take up the entire blog discussing them. Joba’s future being one BIG part of the equation.
Going to be a very interesting off-season in the Bronx.
Brian, I think you hit with Damon re, his being genuine. He also will stay around when he does poorly, unlike a lot of players.
Damon is one of the few gamers on this team. He’s also a guy who is in front of his locker regardless of the results of the game. He is accountable. Which is no small task for players who play in NY.
You know what they need to do with Damon in the off-season? Tell him to get his body ready to play CF next year.
Austin Jackson isn’t ready and Brett Gardner is not an everyday ML CF. Damon needs to play CF next year, with Gardner spelling him for late inning defense and for off days.
Damon’s best contribtion to the team for 2009 will come from playing CF.
They can trade for a corner OF, with Nady manning the other corner OF spot.
DH may have to be reserved for Posada. We have no idea how his shoulder will respond to major surgery.
Murph brought up a great point the other day. The Yankees need to find a catcher in the off-season. Molina can’t catch everyday next year and we don’t know about Posada.
Neither Romine, Montero or Cervelli are close to being major league ready to help behind the plate.
Catcher now becomes a position they are going to need to fill. As if they don’t have enough positions they need to fill in the off-season.
IMO, its a big mistake for them to believe Posada can catch everyday next year.
There is a logjam of 35 and over players on this team right now. You can’t bring everybody back in 2009 and expect better results.
Younger, more athletic, with more contract flexibility (ie: fewer long term deals) has to be the off-season theme for the Yankees.
If not, the results won’t change next year.
They aren’t where they are because of bad luck. They are where they are because they are too old, too unathletic, and the farm system has yet to yield sufficient replacements for their aging roster.
“With his arm being even worse (probably thanks to running into the wall during that BoSux game) and how often he was playing hurt or on the day to day list, yes, his skills are declining some.
Also, I guess you didn’t see those two dropped balls during the Toronto game, or was Damon always that bad catching fairly routine fly balls?”
Yes, but you can’t point to one bad game and say “See, he can’t play defense anymore”. Its not like Damon’s dropping fly balls regularly. He had a bad game. Cano’s blown several plays, but you wouldn’t say his defensive skills are in decline. Damon’s arm is weak, but it always has been. He wasn’t going to throw anyone out before, and he still won’t now. Believe me, barring major injury, he has plenty more left in the tank. He’s batting over .300 with 25 stolen bases, 10 alone in the month of August.
SJ44, what do you think about bringing back Pudge for another season? A good hitting catcher will be hard to find this off season, and his defense is still good.
“If Joba’s shoulder can’t handle a starters workload, then just keep him in the bullpen. Mariano isn’t getting any younger and maybe his future is as the closer of the Yankees Post-Mariano.
What they can’t do again is bounce him back and forth between the ‘pen and the rotation. That’s counterproductive to everybody involved.”
totally agree. thats why i said before, you can NOT do this bullpen transition to the rotation again, because if he suffers another setback, his development takes another hit, and he’s doing it all over again in 2010… and then maybe in 2011, and so on.
the yankees are trying to have their cake, and eat it to with Joba. they recognize he has the talent to pitch in the MLB, but recognize his arm isnt fit to pitch a full season yet from the rotation… they are trying to optimize his arm to the team’s short term benefit, while pretending to keep his long-term ability within sights.
if they really want to develop Joba, and they are going to limit his innings, then he should start in Scranton just like Hughes and Kennedy. let him pitch every 5th day, limit him to 5 or 6 innings a start, and call him up to the big league rotation after a month or two.
thats the only way you are really going to evaluate what role he can play for the organization long term.
fuhgoobagaz,
I’m not trying to stir up a storm here, but the “genuine” aspect of Damon’s persona is something you can’t quantify, but is still tangible. Therefore, people like him (as they should).
I think a lot of the negativity directed towards ARod is because he is NOT genuine. You can’t quantify it, or prove it, but there’s a consensus that there is something superficial (i.e. phony) about ARod, so most people can’t warm up to him as a person.
Having said that, I was one of many Sox fans who wanted him to come to Boston during the winter of ‘03-’04. I was willing to try REAL hard to warm up to him.
Fernando:
Damon does not cover enough ground to be a high end CF anymore. He’s still good in left, but miscast in center.
“SJ44, what do you think about bringing back Pudge for another season? A good hitting catcher will be hard to find this off season, and his defense is still good.”
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
1)He’s not a good hitting catcher anymore.
2)His defense skills are rapidly declining.
Other than his left arm, what is not to like about JD. A nice and decent guy, great teamate who gives you what he has everyday. I have heard people on this blog criticize the man for smiling albeit maybe at times we weren’t smiling but I much prefer an upbeat heart with intensity. I’ll get you next time has its place. If players worry about every out they make and error that happens, they will soon be wallowing in self pity. JD is not going out that way.
I think the difference between A-Rod and Damon is that Damon just lets his comments fly. A-Rod tries too hard to say the right thing and it comes out as phony.
I think A-Rod is probably better liked as a team mate than as we see him as a fan. It seems there is good comradery in the dugout between him and the other players. Its when he gets in front of cameras or the writers that A-Rod just doesn’t relax. Its the same problem he has in the post season. Trying too hard to be all things and ends up blowing it.
Damon is a face value type of guy.
A CF arm is very overrated. Coco Crisp can’t throw worth a lick. He can play a terrific defensive CF. So can Ellsbury and he doesn’t possess a good arm.
For one year, with Gardner available for late inning defense, Damon can play CF. Especially when he has an off-season to get his body ready for CF.
Going into this season, he didn’t have to prepare to play CF because it was thought Melky would hold down the position. That no longer being the case, you change the plan.
To me, Pudge hasn’t shown enough to warrant a return. He hasn’t hit at all. More importantly, he’s looked OLD behind the plate. Not throwing the ball well, not framing pitches well, etc.
I wouldn’t bring him back. I think they have to look in another direction for catching help.
TurnTwo,
Completely agree re: the Yankees and Joba. Simply put, you can’t have your cake and eat it too with him. At some point, you have to decide what he is and go with it.
If he is a starter, start him and keep him there. If he is a reliever (because of injury concerns, effectiveness, need, whatever) put him in the ‘pen and keep him there.
Used intelligently and creatively, and this staff has shown they can use bullpen creatively, you could get 120 quality innings out of the ‘pen with Joba next year.
Think about it. One game, you can have him spell Mo (to give him a break here and there). Another game, he can pitch the final 3 innings for a save or win.
You could make him a unique and effective weapon for the team.
Either way, I would prefer they not bounce him from the ‘pen to the rotation next year. Make a call, stick with it, and move on.
They have enough issues in fixing this broken team. They can’t spend the entire off-season on Joba Watch.
Fernando… Damon is breaking down physically. I wouldn’t say he is ready to be pushed out the door, not by any means, but he is in decline. Every player declines some each year.
Look at how many games last year he had to sit out. That is age catching up, like it or not. When you pencil him in for a defensive spot, its a little tough knowing that you can count on him being able to do it physically for the longer haul.
Its not a knock on him. His bat is fine. He runs well, but will that keep up as well if he plays nearly every day? Especially in Center. I think he is better suited at this time for Left.
I still like what he brings to the club.
“NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
1)He’s not a good hitting catcher anymore.
2)His defense skills are rapidly declining.”
He’s been awful with the Yankees, that’s true, but he was hitting .290 with Detroit, which makes me think his offensive troubles are due to his transition. More importantly however, who do we get? Have you seen the free agent catchers available? And how many of them would be willing to take a one year deal? He’s not the greatest catcher, but you can do much worse, and as a fill-in while we’re waiting for Posada, I think he’d do fine.
Perhaps the Yankees will have more flexibility concerning Joba if they sign CC or some other FA pitcher, or make a trade for one who can be top of the rotation guy if not #1 guy. Perhaps they see how Hughes does in winter ball and spring training. Not to mention what other moves they make overall.
I do agree they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. I don’t even want to voice my suspicion with regard to Joba. But as much as I would love the Yankees to get to the playoffs just to be able to not have to listen to a lot of the “stuff” and prove some people at least partially wrong (because even if they do get to the playoffs, this has not been a good year and no one would want a repeat of it), I almost – ALMOST – wish they’d just lose every game except for Moose’s so they can shut Joba down, and send him to winter ball. Salvaging this season, to me, is not worth this risky move. Even given that they have a lot more information at their hands than I ever will.
“Other than his left arm, what is not to like about JD. A nice and decent guy, great teamate who gives you what he has everyday”
Look, I commend what Damon had done here. It’s important work for a group that goes largely unappreciated. But let us not go overboard. This “nice and decent guy” abandoned his family about six seconds after signing his 1st free agent contract with Boston. Read his book and you see an attention craving, philandering slug who blames his ex-wife’s “paranoia” for his leaving her and his kids in favor of the silicone laden bimbette who serves as the current Mrs. Damon.
Once again, he deserves credit for both his play on the field and the good works noted above, but he ain’t exactly the salt of the earth.
I don’t understand anyone who supports the idea of Joba going back to the pen.
Relievers are a dime a dozen, even closers can be had via trade or free agency. I understand starters can also, but not as easily and for a far greater price.
Joba is a starter. The question of whether he can hold up is valid, but you need to give the guy a chance. His stuff is electric, he commands 3 pitches and is working on a fourth, and he rountinely throws 98-99 MPH in the 7th inning of his starts.
That doesn’t sound like a reliever to me.
SJ
You’re right about Damon. Assuming his legs hold up, he can play a perfectly acceptable CF.
The Yankees’ defensive problem is not that any one player is unacceptable (outside of Giambi). The problem is that each individual is, shall we say, less than stellar (especially with respect to getting to balls). You can hide one or two defensive mediocrities, but not eight of them.
e.g., the Sox hid Manny in LF, but (1) he could REALLY hit, and (2) the rest of their defense was solid (once Lowrie replaced Lugo). Going forward, The Yankees have to decide where (and how) they can upgrade their defense (within the context of the existing contracts), and where they’ll settle for status quo.
“Joba is a starter. The question of whether he can hold up is valid, but you need to give the guy a chance. His stuff is electric, he commands 3 pitches and is working on a fourth, and he rountinely throws 98-99 MPH in the 7th inning of his starts.”
yeah, i dont think anyone thinks he should just be put in the pen because of one injury and setback here.
i think most, or at least i feel, they need to just let him be a starter next season, rather than run with this transition plan again. prove he can handle the full season stress of being a starting pitcher, or prove he cant.
Look, I commend what Damon had done here. It’s important work for a group that goes largely unappreciated. But let us not go overboard. This “nice and decent guy†abandoned his family about six seconds after signing his 1st free agent contract with Boston. Read his book and you see an attention craving, philandering slug who blames his ex-wife’s “paranoia†for his leaving her and his kids in favor of the silicone laden bimbette who serves as the current Mrs. Damon.
Once again, he deserves credit for both his play on the field and the good works noted above, but he ain’t exactly the salt of the earth.
Ok, he is not perfect. I sure he is the first young man to flounder on personal responsibilities. I like to believe maybe he learned from it. Btw, if its real it isn’t paranoia, wasn’t living in his house or mind. Has little bearing on what he has been or done since. Never underestimate the power of hormones. Again he is not perfect.
Question for Peter Abraham,
I noticed on the YES network gun Joba was throwing 89-90 mph.
The bradcasters said the gun at the Trop said 93
The Journal News said 95
Is there anyway of telling which is correct? Or why there is such a difference? I was concerned watching Joba pitch and seeing the YES gun say 89 mph, or almost 8 mph less than his norm
Doreen,
The BEST, and I mean BEST thing that can happen to the entire organization is exactly what is happening now….no playoffs.
At some point, you can’t keep putting it together with stopgap measures, like its been for the last 4 years.
Here is what we have seen the last 4 years:
1. Consistently slow starts because the veterans have to “work themselves” into the season.
2. Injuries galore, especially to pitchers.
3. Cashman needing to round up the usual suspects, and other waiver wire guys, to piece together a rotation.
You know what? Until this year, they have found a way to make the playoffs and justify the haphazzard way they got in.
Didn’t help them in the playoffs (4-13 record the last 4 years) but, at least they got in.
Now, that’s over. That’s a GOOD thing.
They have a ton of money coming off the books, and its time to make big boy baseball decisions on players.
Its no longer a team that is, “one or two players away” from winning the World Series. Its no longer a young team. They even need to begin to put into motion a succssion plan for Derek Jeter. He can’t play SS forever.
As much as this organization is loathe to tell Jeter what to do, last I checked, they are his employers. They have to start planning what to do with him prior to 2010, when his contract expires.
For all this stuff to take place, you have to have failure. Not making the playoffs is failure.
With failure, its EASIER to make changes. Much harder to do when you aren’t failing. You convince yourself you are closer to the prize than you actually are.
Its why this off-season is so crucial for the Yankees.
They have decisions to make on a lot of players and they have to make the RIGHT decisions. Even if they are unpopular with the fans and, more importantly, the players.
Its incumbent for them to make the right moves this off-season. If they don’t, this season will end up being a good season compared to what lies ahead.
Its not an overstatement to say this is the most important off-season for the Yankees in the last 15 years.
“i think most, or at least i feel, they need to just let him be a starter next season, rather than run with this transition plan again. prove he can handle the full season stress of being a starting pitcher, or prove he cant.”
Agreed. I half understand the Yankees position on this, as he’s such a great talent that they want to mximize the contribution he can make. But they have to make a call one way or another, even if it means having him in the minors for 1-2 months.
I also question how much of this current set back was exaggerated by the Yankees being extra cautious with him. I tend to doubt they would have shut down any other pitcher for as long as they did him.
I think whether or not they sign CC, whether or not Hughes develops, or any other factors involved should have no bearing WHATSOEVER on Joba’s future.
The team is doing itself a huge disservice if they put him back in the pen.
What I don’t understand, and maybe someone can enlighten me on this, is why Joba can’t make up the innings he lost in the Arizona Fall League. If he has about 90 innings now he can pitch another 10-15 in September out of the pen, then go to the Arizona Fall League and pitch maybe another 40 innings there.
That would allow him to throw close to 180 innings next year and he could start the year in the rotation.
The guy had some tendinitis in his shoulder. He didn’t tear his labrum or rotator cuff. He didn’t undergo TJ surgery. He had a minor injury. Stating that he can’t hold up and must be converted to the pen would be extremely shortsighted on the Yankees part.
Didn’t they watch him this year in the rotation? How many times did we say to ourselves “Thank god they stretched Joba out” or “where would we be without Joba in the rotation?”
The Red Sox game should be evidence enough. An arm like his comes along once every 10 years. I don’t know about you guys, but I’m so sick and tired of seeing Ponson and Rasner. Neither of these guys should ever be starting any games for tha Yankees.
One other thing I wanted to bring up…..
During yesterday’s game Michael Kay kept talking about how the coaches are working with Brett Gardner every day on his bunting, etc.
My question is… what the hell are they doing in the minors if they aren’t working on bunting and other fundamentals down there?
At every level of the minor leagues they should teach all their guys how to bunt and move runners over. Especially a speed guy with little pop.
Maybe Kay doesn’t know what he’s talking about, it wouldn’t be the first time. But if this is the most intense training Gardner has gotten on bunting and its coming at the major league level then something is seriously wrong.
It sounds like the Yankees need a lot more “baseball people” and “development guys” and less “suits” and front office stiffs.
“Fernando… Damon is breaking down physically. I wouldn’t say he is ready to be pushed out the door, not by any means, but he is in decline. Every player declines some each year.
Look at how many games last year he had to sit out. That is age catching up, like it or not. When you pencil him in for a defensive spot, its a little tough knowing that you can count on him being able to do it physically for the longer haul.
Its not a knock on him. His bat is fine. He runs well, but will that keep up as well if he plays nearly every day? Especially in Center. I think he is better suited at this time for Left.
I still like what he brings to the club.”
Yeah, age will get every player eventually, but when I read that he’s in decline and look up and see him having his best year since coming to the Yankees, I have a hard time getting behind that notion. Last year he was injured. As much as they didn’t want to acknowledge it, especially with the awful start they had last season, he was still injured. We are now seeing what a mostly healthy Damon can do. Do I expect him to put up the same numbers going forward? No. Age catches up to everyone. But right now, Damon is playing a few years younger than he is.
“What I don’t understand, and maybe someone can enlighten me on this, is why Joba can’t make up the innings he lost in the Arizona Fall League. If he has about 90 innings now he can pitch another 10-15 in September out of the pen, then go to the Arizona Fall League and pitch maybe another 40 innings there.”
i’m with you on this one. and if he doesnt qualify for the AzFL, then have him pitch in a winter league somewhere. there are other ways to ensure he gets the innings total he needed to hit by the end of the calendar year this year to start him in the rotation next year.
“The guy had some tendinitis in his shoulder. He didn’t tear his labrum or rotator cuff. He didn’t undergo TJ surgery. He had a minor injury.”
this is what we dont know. we assume he had a minor injury from the info provided to us thru the front office. we dont know if they are being 100% honest, though. perhaps this was the diagnosis they let out, but the scans and second opinion he had show that he’s potentially at risk for complicating or magnifying the injury over a full season.
we dont know that yet. this is what Joba has to do; prove that he can stay healthy for a full season.
yeah, miggs. i’d lean towards the side of Michael Kay continuing to talk out of his arse.
Joba belongs in the rotation as a starter. If they are concerned with arm strength, bring him in for multiple innings, not just one.
I agree also with him going to get more innings in the Arizona Fall League.
If they are that concerned for him, send someone along with him to be there to shut him down if need be.
I worry that they will stunt him in development and baseball will miss out on a great pitcher. While at this point it is all promise and no proof, he sure looks like the real deal.
The whole issue of starting or relieving with Joba is based on one thing: health.
In a perfect world, its a no brainer that he should be a starting pitcher. I think everybody agrees on that point.
The issue is, his health.
He dropped in the draft because of health concerns. He got hurt this year after less than 90 innings. That’s not good.
I guess we can all believe the Yankees when they say he had “rotator cuff tendinitis”. Only problem with that is, that’s a byproduct from an injury, and not an injury itself. More likely, he strained a biceps tendon. Not a serious injury but, an injury just the same. An injury that knocked him out for a month and puts his innings limits back in play for 2009.
What if its determined that he can’t stay healthy enough to throw 200 innings? What do you do with him? Of course, you put him in the bullpen.
That’s my point re: Joba. Fact is, he can’t start enough games next year to reach 200 innings. So, what do you do with next year?
Bounce him back and forth again? That didn’t work this year. Why is it going to work next year?
Baseball is a game of consistency. In a way, it flies in the face of the highlight based culture most sports fans live for today.
Good baseball teams, like the Yankees Dynasty Teams, are almost boring in their effectiveness. They do the same fundamentally sound things everyday. They also PLAY everyday. They answer the bell.
It doesn’t do the player or team any good to be unable to answer the bell. Starters have to start 28-35 games a year and throw between 180-200 innings. If not, it doesn’t help the team.
Position players have to play 145+ games a year. If not, you better have a good bench if you want to win titles.
That’s the problem with the Yankees. Not enough guys on this team, especially pitchers, answer the bell. They are always hurt.
In Joba’s case, the issue becomes where is he best suited to help the team AND stay healthy.
Obviously, it would be great if that’s in the rotation. However, if its not (and that has to be determined in this off-season, IMO), then the bullpen is where he needs to go.
“we assume he had a minor injury from the info provided to us thru the front office”
TurnTwo –
I understand where you are coming from – but ignoring what the front office says and watching what they do tells me that it cannot have been that serious an issue.
They would have just shut him down if there was a risk of greater injury.
TurnTwo I hear you regarding the front office disclosure of the full nature of the injury.
But if the injury was anything serious I find it hard to believe he’d be pitching right now, whether the team was in the race or not.
Fernando, I would be glad to see Damon stick around a few more years. I agree he is playing better this year, but even this year he has been sat down to rest.
“Fernando, I would be glad to see Damon stick around a few more years. I agree he is playing better this year, but even this year he has been sat down to rest.”
That’s true. I think looking forward he does project better in left where a weak arm looks a little stronger, and quick feet look a little quicker. I guess 2009 will make that call.
“But if the injury was anything serious I find it hard to believe he’d be pitching right now, whether the team was in the race or not.”
miggs, tk: you would like to think so, yeah.
and i’m not saying this injury was worse than they made it out to be. he looked good last night, says he feels good.
but maybe its an injury thats a precursor to another potential injury that could crop up in the future?
perhaps Joba isnt being 100% honest about the way his arm feels with the training staff? we have no reason to think he’d lie, but we all know he seems to be the type of guy to do whatever it takes to get back on the mound again.
all i’m saying is that i’ll continue to watch his progress and development from the outside with a grain of salt.
SJ44 I understand your points about Joba’s health but I think you’re missing my main argument here.
Joba had a minor injury in his shoulder for all we know. He was also hurt in college. I say “So what?”
Look at Wang. The guy tears his rotator cuff in his first full year, then puts up back-to-back 200 inning seasons after that. What if the Yankees had said “He can’t hold up, lets put him in the pen”. Think about how silly that sounds now.
What I’m saying is that it should take a major injury, maybe even 2 major injuries, before the team thinks of converting him to a reliever.
Guys get hurt all the time. It happens. Joba’s value as a starter is exponentially greater than his value as a reliever.
Someone made a great point earlier about Mussina’s rookie season (240+ innings or so) and now pitching great 16 years later. I’m not saying let him throw 240 innings next year. But let him throw 180. Put him in the Az FL or winter ball and give him the chance to start all year in 2009.
It’s clear that Joba’s in control as far as the timing of his return goes. If the Yankees upset Joba by standing in his way, he might hold it against them free agency comes around.
[Achtung! Sarcasm Alert!]
Whatever the injury was, he was out for month. That’s not a “minor” injury. That’s missing 15% of the season. Effectively, his injury pretty much ended any logical Yankee playoff run. In that regard, it was a serious injury. Especially at the time it took place.
Four of the last five years Joba has played, he’s missed time with injuries. The issue is his overall health.
If this was an isolated thing, no big deal. Its not. Its happened 4 of the last 5 years with Joba and that information has to be part of the decisionmaking process as to what to do with him.
Its why its a reasonable discussion to have about where he can be placed (rotation or bullpen) to maximize his effectiveness.
I would rather see him in the rotation. However, the more you look at the overall picture he, like Papelbon, may be a guy that needs to be in the bullpen for health reasons.
SJ44 –
Regarding your response to me. In my heart of hearts I do know that NOT making the playoffs will serve the Yankees better in the long term than squeaking in. I’ve said before changes are a lot easier to make and swallow after failure than success.
The last few teams they got into the playoffs (the 2005,-06 and -07 Yankees) while overcoming some injuries, etc. Their powerhouse defense was able to hold them up as well as hide whatever deficiencies they had, until playoff time came, and facing quality pitching every day, while at the same time their own pitching staff being not quite up to the task, did them in. The really problematic thing to me about them in the last few years has been their inability to get off to a really good start at the outset of the season.
All that you say is true. And this is going to be a humdinger of an off-season, or at least it should be.
As bad as this year has been, though, I can’t think that squeaking into the wild card, or having it come down to the final days of the season against Boston, should have any bearing on how they view this season as a whole. Even allowing for a few less-than-the-back-of-their-baseball-card seasons by several players, and injuries, I can’t imagine this organization would want to take a chance on another year like this.
“But let him throw 180. Put him in the Az FL or winter ball and give him the chance to start all year in 2009.”
i dont think anyone is arguing with this. in fact, i think we are saying the same exact thing, just in different ways.
He was only out for a month because the Yankees were babying him. There was nothing wrong structurally(sp) with his arm. That’s a minor injury to me.
the Yankees need only to play .750 ball ( 18-6 ) over the last 24 games and they will SQUEAK into the playoffs at 92-70,,,,provided that either Boston goes 10-14 in THEIR last 24 games OR Tampa goes 7-19 over THEIR last 26 games… LOL
You can’t compare Joba with Moose for several reasons.
Moose has ALWAYS been healthy. Even in college, he never missed a start. Not been the case with Joba.
Moose’s mechanics are better than Joba’s. Less torque and less strain generated by Moose’s mechanics than Joba’s.
He also doesn’t throw as hard and didn’t in college. Again, less strain on his body and arm than Joba.
He is also a MUCH better athlete. Even at 39, Moose is one of the best athletes on the team. That tends to lead to fewer injuries.
This particular injury to Joba may be minor in nature. Yet, it still cost him 15% of the season. A pretty fair chunk. Enough of a chunk to change the Yankees playoff push. In my mind, that makes it a “major” injury in terms of what it did to the teams fortunes.
Can it lead to a more significant injury? That’s information we don’t have and I doubt the Yankees would ever make that public.
My point is, Papelbon is in the same boat as Joba in the sense that he would LOVE to be a starter. He can’t because its been determined his shoulder can’t hold up over a starters workload.
The Yankees are going to have to make a determination this off-season whether Joba’s shoulder can withstand a starters workload.
If it can, prepare him accordingly. If it can’t, put him in the ‘pen and keep him there. Bouncing him back and forth for another year is not the way to develop his skills.
Not everybody’s body can hold up to be a starter. It has more to do with genetics, pre-existing injuries, etc, than anything else.
CC Sabathia and David Wells don’t have great bodies. They both have arms that can hold up under heavy workloads.
Josh Beckett, Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain are better conditioned athletes than Wells or Sabathia. Thus far, none of those guys have had a year where they haven’t missed chunks of time with injuries.
Its the crazy thing about pitchers and pitching in general. Its a VERY inexact science when it comes to health issues.
Doreen,
Are you bipolar or using different computers when you post? You keep flipping between “critical, but stable” and “pull the plug” in your handle and comments!
Like I said before, if the Yankees converted every starting pitcher who had an arm injury into a reliever they would have a one-man rotaion of Mike Mussina.
Wang, Pettitte, and Pavano are 3 examples of Yankees starters who have had serious arm injuries (ones that actually required surgery) and none of them were ever considered bullpen guys after their injuries.
I also think its silly to think that a reliever’s workload is less stressful on the arm than a starter. Pitching once every 5th day on a rountine is worse than pitching sporadically as a reliever (warming up and not getting into games, pitching 4 times a week, etc.) I’d like to see where that’s been proven to be less taxing than starting.
I don’t buy it.
mel –
Different computers and I keep forgetting to change that stupid thing!
SJ is right about the Joba health issue. I’ve written this before; we don’t know what the medical report on Joba is and whether or not he was advised to be a reliever. If so, it would be the same advice Papelbon got last year.
Either way a decision must be made for one or the other and it has to be made in October if he is to get innings in the AFL. Back and forth is unacceptable in the future.
Damon is an admirable guy and quality hitter, but be honest folks, he is a mediocre outfielder with a sub-mediocre arm. He should DH most of the time and play outfielder maybe 2X a week to increase roster flexibility. With Posada’s status uncertain it seems moving Matsui would make the most sense unless he and Damon can share LF/DH. It wouldn’t be a disaster for Melky to get another shot at CF with Gardner on the bench. That would free up $$$ for 1B.
The off season promises to be interesting in so many ways, part of which is the order in which decisions will get made.
First up, committing to a plan with Joba.
Next, offering arbitration or picking up options on veterans. I say you offer arbitration to Abreu, Mussina and Pettite, but not Giambi, Pavano or Pudge.
Third you have to work out a deal with Marte (3 yrs, $ 12 M enough?).
These must be dealt with before they can even gauge the chances of signing Teixiera, CC, Sheets, Burnett, Garland or anyone else. As well as entering the trade market dangling Matsui, young pitching and possibly Cano and Cabrera.
But before all that how about winning a few more games?!
mel –
But comments wise – I guess I do flip a little. I have a little logic vs. heart conflict going about this team.
Hey guys, I went to the Staten Island game last night.
No one from SI really stood out, but the starter for Hudson Valley-
Barnese-was excellent. Does anyone know anything about him?Rebecca, did Pat Venditte pitch?
Fernando—He warmed, but the SIY lost 3-1 so no, he didn’t pitch.
Mabye next time. He’s doing really well down there. I think he’s been closing for them.
Changing subjects, with the demise of the parent club I’ve turned an eye towards the minor league clubs. Recently I started checking out the two minor league blogs that Pete’s been kind enough to link.
Interesting because there’s a lot of player movement and the playoffs will be starting for them. Ashmore had some interesting things on the Trenton/Portland matchup that’s coming up soon. Did you guys know that Clay Buchholz will be starting the second game of a AA postseason series? Sandbaggers.
Lots of stuff on the pitchers who are on the rise in the system. Laura & SA, there’s one pitcher you may want to follow. Christian Garcia. He could be Grady Sizemore’s twin. Oh yeah, he’s a pretty good pitcher, too.
Fernando—Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s why we didn’t get to see him pitch.
Cashman has an extensive interview on wfan.com where he speaks about Joba being in the pen right now as essentially finishing his rehab and proving that he is healthy at the end of the season.
Cash said they want to remove that health question mark so that next season it isn’t there. Thankfully, he didn’t get in to a bullpen/rotation conversation with Francessa – although there was a Bronson Arroyo mention.
Good for Johnny!
NY Post:
Bosses want Cashman back
“Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s why we didn’t get to see him pitch.”
It’s either that, or global warming. Don’t ask how they relate, just trust that it does.
“Interesting because there’s a lot of player movement and the playoffs will be starting for them. Ashmore had some interesting things on the Trenton/Portland matchup that’s coming up soon. Did you guys know that Clay Buchholz will be starting the second game of a AA postseason series? Sandbaggers.”
I believe the Yankees affiliate is playing Boston’s affiliate in the International, Eastern and NY/Penn League playoffs.
sunny,
Thanks for the link. They need to resolve this before the end of the postseason. Lots of work to be done and it can’t wait until the winter meetings.
“Changing subjects, with the demise of the parent club I’ve turned an eye towards the minor league clubs. Recently I started checking out the two minor league blogs that Pete’s been kind enough to link.”
Mel,
If interested, I recently interviewed Chad Jennings.
of course
Fredo,
3 different leagues? Ashmore had an interesting entry on how the rivalry extends to the minor leagues. The players downplay it, but you know they want to pound each other on the field.
Clay,
Really? What’d he say about that new prospect? He must be excited.
Do you have it up yet?
CBLL:
Nice interview.
I’ve had my blog for a year now.
This is weird.
Thanks, Fredo.
SJ44 nailed it at 10:46 regarding the Joba question. IMO we could just republish that one each time it gets raised again, until more info/experience add to the actual knowledge base.
CBLL –
I second Fredo’s comment – that is a good job by you.
Melancon’s description makes me very happy – I hope that pans out.
Clay, well done! Nice read.
Ironic thing about Joba not hitting his innings is that if the team had just let him start from day one, he probably would have 120 innings or so assuming the same minor shoulder issue.
As for Joba returning, I am glad he did. I want to tell SJ44 to eat crow about his call that we wouldn’t see Joba again this season, after he decided to bring the board down by declaring Joba’s season over, but I won’t do that.
I like what Cashman had to say though, make up a game a week on Boston to get it to 3 games out going to Fenway to make it interesting. So we are talking about making up 4 games on Boston, meaning the Yankees need to go about 18-3 to get there.
Oh and by the way, I don’t think the Yankees are that far away from contending, hopefully management has better luck in 2009.
Clay, I third Fredo and TK.
I can’t believe he’s never been to the Stadium…wish we could change that.
Jeez!!!
No Guthrie today for the Orioles. He’s the one Oriole who can get Red Sox out. Now it’s Matsuzaka vs. Lance Cormier. The life support machine keeps beeping, but….......
Found 2 things at danpatrick.com
1. Recap of CC interview:
CC Sabathia is funny. He started off talking about his fantasy football team, the Ohio State Trojans. Turns out, he’s just the owner of the team and he’s a USC fan. He has a GM who’s an Ohio State fan.
Sabathia says he thinks the Brewers have a good shot at winning the World Series this year and are the best team in the National League. He has a lot of confidence. And he has no problem with the Brewers using him a lot of innings. Sabathia told Dan that he lets the manager know he doesn’t want to leave the game.
Dan also asked him would he rather hit a walk-off home run or a no-hitter. Sabathia didn’t hesitate—the home run.
[instant analysis by Mel: “Dude’s going to stay in the NL”]
2. I found this video funny especially since the baserunner is from a Tampa affiliate. At least he didn’t take out the catcher:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJiVRo9Yczg
Check out CC’s gamelog for this year –
no starts with fewer than 91 pitches
since May 1, only went fewer than 7 innings 5 times – never fewer than 6 innings.
That guy gets it done and rests the bullpen.
Show him the MONEY!
Clay, that was a nice interview with Chad Jennings. I especially liked his take on a number of young/minor league players. I think he offers a different perspective on the younger players, as he’s not part of the Yankee organization. Especially interesting to read his opinion of Bailey and Zink with Pawtucket, guys who have had some of our bloggers here in a frenzy.
SJ – yesterday you mentioned that you felt that AJ Burnett wanted to play for the Yankees (as opposed to play the Yankee card for more money in negotiations). On what basis do you think that?
Clay,
Very nice. I’ll check your site more often.
The concern about the injury to Chamberlain is a cause for some worry, but, as long as it’s only discomfort and not pain, I see no reason distress among the front office and the hysteria from fans. Shoulder tendonitis is a common ailment for athletes, and pitchers in particular. It’s only an inflamation and not a tear. If it was a tear or severe injury, he wouldn’t be pitching.
If the Yankees’ goal, though, is to extend Joba’s innings to provide them with the greatest flexibility for next year, why would they return him to the bullpen for the season’s duration?
I would think they recognize by now their playoff chances are remote.
Wouldn’t they increase Joba’s inning totals this year more by rehearsing the same tactic they used earlier this season, strecthing him in incrementally longer outings in preparation for his starting, if not this year than next.
Whether he actually amasses enough pitches to start by season’s end this year should be irrelevant. The goal should be increasing his inning totals as much possible in preparation for next year.
Shuffling him back and forth between the two roles can’t help matters. If he relieves for the duration of this season, they’ll have change his role twice already, apart, I would imagine, from confining the maximum number of innings he can amass this year, and then twice more next year, if they repeat the pattern next year.
”[instant analysis by Mel: “Dude’s going to stay in the NLâ€]”
That’s been the scuttlebut. Yankees selling point is going to be all about the money. Part of me is not sure I want to do it if he prefers to be somewhere else (read: Is coming exclusively for the money what we really want from a guy? Especially one whose shoulders the state of the franchise will rest on for at least a couple seasons?)
Hey Rebecca – and I remember all your discussion about whether or not to start the blog…can’t believe it’s been that long!
If CC likes hitting the ball so much, the Yankees could always sit the DH when he is pitching.
“CC Sabathia is funny. He started off talking about his fantasy football team, the Ohio State Trojans.”
but according to Steven A Smith, black people dont play fantasy sports because they have better things to do!
Fredo,
One thing’s for sure, if we don’t get CC, I don’t want anything to do with Sheets. I would take Burnett, tho.
If we don’t get CC, Joba’s a starter for sure. I mean, he is anyway, but that pretty much would guarantee it. And he’d start in April.
Would love to see Joba & Wang juxtapositioned for a whole year. Wow.
I’m with GB7, if he can pitch let him pitch. Every pitcher deals with stuff. Look at the World Series favorites, Zambrano is having an injury-riddled year. Joba’s relatively lucky.
$13, I mentioned that about 2 weeks ago. He pitches in his regular turn and DH one or two times a week.
Mac Nut,
If he likes hitting so much, let him DH on the days he’s not pitching! He might even do it for league minimum.
”$13, I mentioned that about 2 weeks ago. He pitches in his regular turn and DH one or two times a week.”
A minimium of 100 PA’s clause in his contract??? That could do it.
The Yankees have no choice but to be active in the free-agent market. Right now, for 2009, they have ONE starter—YES, ONE!!—they can rely on to pitch 200 effective innings—Wanger.
The others may or may not re-sign and are either too old or too young to rely upon:
1) Moose- Does he re-sign? Can he possibly be as effective next year as this?
2) Andy—I wouldn’t be surprised if he retires. Regardless, age has exacted its toll on him. I wouldn’t exclude the possibility of his bouncing back next year; I certainly wouldn’t rely on it.
3) Hughes- health and inning caps no longer enable the Yankees to rely on him.
4) Joba—more reliable but can pitch fewer innings
5) IPK—is he a budding Shawn Marcum or Matt DeSalvo redux?
6) Wright or Coke—?
7) Even if Brackman and/or Humberto recover from injuries, the Yankees conservative approach probably will consign them to AA or AAA for 2009.
If either Pettitte or Moose don’t return, the Yankees will need to sign 2 free-agent pitchers. They may have to sign two regardless.
I went to the web site to vote, but Chevy wants me to enter my personal information. I understand entering name and email address, but there is no reason they need my mailing address unless it is to solicit me with marketing. That is a shame that you cannot vote on someone for such a selfless award without giving up your personal info. Sorry, Johnny, but I did not vote.
This is CC’s first real pay day.
He can like hitting all he wants, but I don’t think it will stand in the way of taking the highest offer.
He seems to be very media savvy – the farewell ad in the Cleveland paper was really smart PR, and he is a good talker.
Saying he likes to hit is just a harmless way to push up his contract value without any real static.
Just have to be careful that he isn’t overly exposed for injury concerns.
Maybe as a pinch hitter off the bench would work for him. Giving him some DH roles would also give the regular DH a breather when he needs it.
Sheets was pulled from his last start after 60 pitches that had nothing to do with the score of the game. He’s supposed to make his next start on Friday, but, no way should the Yanks entertain thoughts of signing him. If NYY can’t sign Sabathia, my choice would be with Burnett. His numbers against most of the playoff contenders is very good. It’s teams like Baltimore, Oakland and Texas that give him fits. He’s as rough on Boston as he is on the Yanks. He has mixed results on the Angels.
Look up AJ Burnett’s numbers and if you exclude his performance against the Yankees, he has OVER A 5.00 ERA.
He pitches well against Boston 3.07 ERA in 2 starts (Why two? Boston has gotten very lucky in their pitching matchups with Toronto this year.
And against Baltimore, Messr. AJ has a 9.82 ERA in three starts.
BTW, if AJ reaches 200 innings this year, it will be only the third time in 8 years as a full-fledged starter.
Stay away from AJ.
move edwar to the rotation
Well, AJ + Joba = 200 IP
Problem solved.
bdog375, just bogus the address then. It is also offering WS tickets so they would need your address to get them to you.
I somewhat agree that the ad campaign tied to the award is just cheesy, its all about the revenue.
move edwar out of pinstripes. please. if he’s in the bullpen on opening day with all the options we have, i’ll seriously think about turning in the yankee fan card. not really, but i’d think about it.
The interesting about Coke is he never hit more than 95 mph on a gun. And this year he lived mostly 92-93 mph, yeh he threw 96 mph in Detroit I wouldn’t expect that much. If he can keep it at 96 mph past 3 innings then he is a potential SP like Mark Newman said. It’ll be interesting what they do w/ Coke I spoke about him and posters told me mid 20’s he’s not a prospect and there’s 2 younger LHP that are NY bound one has been shut down Wilkins De La Rosa people believe he will pump it 95 + mph w/ a nasty change up and then there’s Micheal Dunn converted from OF to the mound and is going to stay there he topped out at 97 early this yr. his debut in Trenton this week had Tony Franklin in near awe hitting 94 mph and had a nasty slider according to witnesses there.
I have no problems with Pettitte returning to NYY. Nobody thought that Mussina would relearn how to pitch and Pettitte can make the same changes in how he pitches. He’s had a string of four bad games, but, until that time, mainly he pitched in bad luck from defense and lack of offense. His ERA was below 3.80. He still pitches like a power and finesse pitcher, but, without the same power as he had. He was never a strikeout pitcher, but, he still depended on the power cutter to get his outs. He’s an intelligent guy and can make those changes. Virtually every game he’s pitched this year has been a max effort on every pitch because the leads he had were seldom large enough to cruise for a couple of innings. Every pitch was a pressure pitch and that will wear down any pitcher, especially the older vets like Pettitte. He just needs to redevelop his off-speed pitches and locate them, much as Mussina has done.
I went to the web site to vote, but Chevy wants me to enter my personal information. I understand entering name and email address, but there is no reason they need my mailing address unless it is to solicit me with marketing. That is a shame that you cannot vote on someone for such a selfless award without giving up your personal info. Sorry, Johnny, but I did not vote.
I voted however GM should be ashamed to troll for buyers in such a manner. Cheapens the idea me thinks.
I thought Sheets was pulled because of a pulled groin in his last start. That isn’t sounding good.
“move edwar out of pinstripes. please. if he’s in the bullpen on opening day with all the options we have, i’ll seriously think about turning in the yankee fan card. not really, but i’d think about it.”
Yikes –
Edwar 2008 has been a ton better than Edwar 2007. Maybe he can continue to improve. I’m not drinking the KoolAid on him, but he has had streaks of very solid work.
Middle relievers are pretty dicey propositions, if they weren’t, they wouldn’t be middle relievers.
Brandon:
I’d be inclined not to buy into the 96 MPH on Coke.
Well if they don’t sign CC, they have to have SOME backup plan. We can’t go into the season with Wang-Pettitte-Mussina-Hughes-Kennedy/Rasner (until Joba comes back) again.
Pettitte is at the end of the road and if he comes back, it should be only as a #5 starter so we can live with the more frequent bad starts. I think Mussina will do well but not 20 wins good again. Hughes isin’t ready and shouldn’t be rushed. Kennedy doesn’t belong and Rasner/Ponson can only survive if you have a strong 1-4.
You pretty much have to get one of the FA pitchers (Sheets, Burnett, Perez) and hope they pan out. Unless they dangle Cano for a young pitcher.
Kill, don’t just look at Burnett’s numbers against Boston and the other teams from this year…try looking at his full career against them. He’s always been tough on Boston and a lot of the contending teams. His high ERAs this year came from the teams I mentioned and against some of the NL teams like Milwaukee and the Mets
Fredo me too.
Pedroia is hitting .600 in his last seven games, and .374 in the month of August. Hitting .385 with bases loaded.
Gee, I really wish he had more hair and was taller!
Let’s not get carried away with CC this hitter. He’s a .206 hitter with one homer and 4 RBI in 34 AB (7K).
The biggest plus in staying in the NL is getting to pitch to opposing pitchers instead of DH types.
Yanks have to convince him going after # 27 is a better deal.
You can’t take small sample sizes, extrapolate them, and decide who to sign or not sign.
AJ Burnett is the best pitcher outside of Sabathia on the free agent market.
He spent last weekend telling players on the Yankees to tell management how badly he wants to play in NY.
Most guys only come to NY only for the money. This guy wants to play in NY for the money AND the fact that he can be part of fixing this team. He’s told his friends in the game all year how badly he wants to play in NY.
CC Sabathia has made no such claims. Not saying the Yankees can’t sign him. However, he has told his friends in the game his priority would be to play on the West Coast.
Burnett’s priority is to play for the Yankees.
Also, if you are going to take small sample sizes to determine who you should sign in free agency, you aren’t going to fix this team. You might as well save your money.
You put Burnett in a rotation with Wang and Moose, and you have 3 top end starting pitchers. You also have three different styles. That makes it tough for teams to match up with you in series.
I guess we can try to keep guys like Ponson, Rasner and Pavano and believe they will be the solution.
However, logically, I would hope the Yankees realize going young or going off the waiver wire isn’t going to solve their pitching issues.
Frankly, the Yankees ought to sign BOTH Burnett and Sabathia in the off-season. If they did that, it would give them a lot more options in terms of moving certain players in the organization to upgrade the position player deficiencies currently in place on the team.
If you commit 40 million dollars to Burnett and Sabathia, minus the 10 million to Pavano, 16 million to Pettitte and 21 million to Giambi, you actually SAVE 7 million dollars and upgrade your team immeasurably.
GB, do you really want a pitcher though who is SO erratic and can’t seem to marshal his concentration and/or ability against mediocre teams? And who is SO injury-prone besides.
If the Yankees were to sign a guy like that just to consume innings, I wouldn’t object, but Burnett is going to command something like 5 years at $75 million.
There have to find better ways to spend that kind of money.
I’d almost prefer to see them sign Garland for that role.
Matt Holliday, for one, in 2010.
If the Yankees don’t sign CC, they’re in a lot of trouble because none of the other options are remotely comparable or fulfill their need for a pitcher they can count on to throw 200 innings.
The bullpen competition is going to be stiff next year. Assuming Mo/Marte are locks, then you have:
Bruney
Melancon
Veras
Edwar
Coke
Sanchez
Britton
Albaladejo
Patterson
Aceves
Giese
Robertson
Not to mention guys like Kontos/Horne who are probably destined for the pen and could be nasty there.
11-13 guys for 5 spots. And Girardi is probably going to take Giese/Aceves/Rasner or somebody as the long man, so its really only 4 spots.
SJ, where did you hear that about Burnett saying he wanted to play in NY?
I agree with you about the Yankees being well served to go after both CC and Burnett, that would take pressure off the offense and could mean having some flexibility in the bats they go after.
Pedroia is hitting .600 in his last seven games, and .374 in the month of August. Hitting .385 with bases loaded.
Cano did that earlier this last month after the Houston series. Remember how freakish his line was. Was is the key word, got to give Pedroia props half stump can hit w/ the best in this league.
Are you sure SJ44, all Burnett’s talk isn’t a contract ploy?
In any case, his persistent battle with injuries would make me VERY VERY leery about signing him, even if the erratic performance didn’t worry me and it does.
I’d have no objection to the Yankees signing Burnett alongside CC, but certainly not in lieu of him.
But there really isn’t a better option, I agree. Who Sheets? He’s more of an injury risk than Burnett and he’s also a National League pitcher, and the Yankees history with projecting NL pitchers performance in the AL East has been checkered, to say the least.
How are the Yankees going to make up seven games on Boston when Dustin Pedroia can beat them all by himself? Johnny Damon’s enjoying one last good season, but the injuries that go with his hard-nosed style of play will wear him down in 2009 and beyond. Where’s the Yankee youth to match up with Pedroia, Lowrie, Ellsbury, Papelbon? (And I didn’t inclkude Youkilis, an old man of 28.) I see Joba and a sea of mediocrity.
TK,
I love all the Yankees, even Ponson. I find redeeming qualities and learn to love them. I liked Bruney before he became “da man”. I liked Farnsworth even though he was bipolar.
But I cannot like a guy with a gimmick pitch and a subpar fastball. Can’t do it.
We’ve got lots of arms coming off surgery. Transition one or two of those guys, but please don’t ask me to pull for Edwar.
Coke said the ball is slicker and flies out quicker. He took the wait and see attitude because he couldn’t believe it.
One of the great names in baseball belongs to TB reliever Grant Balfour, as in “He will grant balfour on the 3-2 pitch to load the bases.”
Gimmick’s not the right word. But I can’t like a guy who lives off one pitch unless he’s unhittable.