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Moose: Four more starts or five?

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 03, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees have days off scheduled for Sept. 11 and Sept. 22.

If Mike Mussina pitches every five days he would get starts on Sept. 7 (Seattle), Sept. 12 (Tampa Bay), Sept. 17 (Chicago), Sept. 23 (Toronto) and Sept. 28 (Boston).

If the Yankees stick with a five-man rotation, he would get only four starts. At 17-7, this could have a direct impact on whether he wins 20 games for the first time.

The first decision will come soon. Sidney Ponson is scheduled to start on Saturday in Seattle. If he stays in the rotation, he would pitch again Sept. 12. But if they skip him, Moose could go that day and that would line him up to pitch the final game of the season in Boston.

Two things: The Yankees should adjust the rotation to give Mike every chance to win 20. He has earned that. Plus, just in case, wouldn’t you want him pitching that final game at Fenway Park?

Joe Girardi had shown great loyalty to Sidney Ponson. But there does come a point where common sense has to win out.

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114 Responses to “Moose: Four more starts or five?”

  1. djsunyc September 3rd, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    girardi is overmatched, i mean “may” be overmatched, yet you want him to just “be a good guy” and get moose his extra start?

  2. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    Yes, Pete!

    Give him 15 starts. He can take Ponson and Rasner’s starts.

    I know he’s a creature of habit, but we’re running on fumes. And a 25-win season makes the HOF a lock!

  3. John September 3rd, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    That’s a tall order, to win three out of five starts, if he even gets the fifth. Especially with the inconsistency of this offense. You have to assume Moose has one to two clunkers out of those five, so it could be a question of whether the offense is able to pick him up and win 10-9, for example. That could be the difference.

  4. Don Capone September 3rd, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    I think they’ll go with Moose. I mean, it’s not like Ponson has been pitching well anyway. Skip him if you can. Moose does deserve a shot at 20. Not to mention that he’s been their best pitcher this season.

  5. S.A.-Taking it one game at a time. This offense is still offensive. September 3rd, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Just have Moose pitch every game this month!
    Do it Yankees! Do it!

  6. Mr. Fusco September 3rd, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    Pete,

    What did you think of Robinson Cano’s comments?

  7. Mr. Fusco September 3rd, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    oh also, 5 starts.

    Its the absolute right thing to do.
    Ponson hasn’t earned the starts.
    Where would we be [yes, I know where we are now] without Moose all year?
    last place?
    probably.

    give him 5.

    I’d even bring him in in relief in a tied game.
    :)

  8. Gmarchese September 3rd, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Well if they have a chance they could even have him try and win one out of the pen. He deserves to win 20 and should be given every chance and why waste time pitching ponson,pavano etc, pitch the young guys and give him more of a chance, they are a dead team, its over.

  9. Scorpio September 3rd, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Moose all the way: win or lose, I’d rather have him on the mound than Sir Sid.

  10. Ed September 3rd, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    Winning 20 would be nice, but the overriding concern should be: Who gives the team the best chance to win a game?

    Ponson? No.

    Rasner? No.

    Both of them are likely to give up too many hits in too few innings.

    I’d certainly take Mussina on regular rest, and I’d also take him on short rest over either of those two.

  11. mrp September 3rd, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    this is a no-brainer. of course you pitch moose as many times as possible, whether he is going for 20 wins or not. he’s your best starter.

    On a related note, if they (god forbid) lose several of their next few games, IPK and Phil Hughes should be on the mound, not Pavano and Ponson.

  12. YANKSFANMC September 3rd, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    Sox are gonna end up catching the Rays. They have the easiest schedule with 16 home games.

    I hope I am right, but I see the Rays suffering a huge collapse. Their schedule is brutal with only 9 home games remaining and 17 on the road. They play there next 18 games as follows:

    2 VS Yanks
    3 @ Jays
    3 @ Sox
    3 @ Yanks
    3 VS Sox
    4 VS Minnesota

    This is a tough stretch, I think 9-9 would even be a stretch.
    I predict that they will go 6-12 here

  13. Skippy September 3rd, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Moose has seniority–they should just ask him what he feels he can do and what he wants to do.

  14. Stormrider6 September 3rd, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    “Joe Girardi had shown great loyalty to Sidney Ponson. But there does come a point where common sense has to win out.”

    Amen, Pete. Amen.

  15. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    John (Portland, ME): Why would Borass not want Alvarez to sign the deal with the Pirates (late or not)? Is it really worth ruining his client’s reputation for a couple more bucks a year later?

    Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) How do we know this isn’t what Alvarez wants? No one’s asked him (nor can anyone ask him), and the blanket assumption is that this is a Boras vendetta against 1) Frank Coonelly and/or 2) the draft. I just don’t buy it. Besides, on the 5% chance that Alvarez is declared a free agent … well, the Yankees probably have a lot of cash left in their budget that was allotted for their ’08 first-rounder, and Alvarez is from the Bronx, and I’d have to imagine they’d offer him $15-20MM if he becomes a free agent.

    Can some explain? What is this 5% chance that Alvaraez becomes a FA?

  16. Chris NY September 3rd, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    “Plus, just in case, wouldn’t you want him pitching that final game at Fenway Park?”

    YES.

  17. stanzy September 3rd, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Definitely give Mussina the shot to get as many wins as he can. No reason not to.

  18. swings & misses September 3rd, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    Girardi better give Moose his extra start to try for 20 W (or more, if he’s reached it by then). I live two blocks from Fenway Park and would happily pay the scalper price to see the Moose pitch the last day of the season to try for 20(+) wins.

  19. JoeT 28 in 09!! I WILL BE RIGHT ABOUT PAVANO!! 5-0 down the stretch September 3rd, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    I wonder who he’s going against those games. If the Toronto game is against Doc or AJ then he has to pitch a 12-inning shut out to win (assuming Doc eventually gives way to the bullpen… which he might not).

  20. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    Dice-K keeping the damage to a minimum, but not being very economical. He’s thrown 50 pitches through 2. Guthrie’s understudy’s thrown 10 through 1. Birds up 1-0.

  21. JoeT 28 in 09!! I WILL BE RIGHT ABOUT PAVANO!! 5-0 down the stretch September 3rd, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    50 pitches in 2 innings IS being economical for Dice-K

  22. Sidney's paunch September 3rd, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    The Mariners brought Randy Johnson out of the pen to win his 20th one year. Of course mussina is no Randy Johnson.

  23. S.o.S.27(Tina Fey =Sara Palin?) September 3rd, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Have Moose come in for the 5th inning of any game that the Yankees are ahead in. Done deal. He would win 30 this year and seal his HOF nomination.

  24. LLIME September 3rd, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    I have an idea.

    Find a game where a starter had a lead through 4.2 innings. Let Mussina come out of the bullpen to get the final out, then he can be in line for the win.

    Do this a couple of times so gets to 20.

  25. Sidney's paunch September 3rd, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    If Dice-K wins today, he’ll have just as many wins as mussina, with fewer losses and a better ERA. But nobody in boston cares if he wins 20. Bigger fish to fry. Beckett won 20 last year and was absolutely robbed in the Cy Young vote. Twenty wins is a milestone, not just the number after 19. Add the all-star game and the post-season and he won 25 times. CC who?

  26. S.o.S.27(Tina Fey =Sara Palin?) September 3rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    “I have an idea.

    Find a game where a starter had a lead through 4.2 innings. Let Mussina come out of the bullpen to get the final out, then he can be in line for the win.

    Do this a couple of times so gets to 20.”

    “Have Moose come in for the 5th inning of any game that the Yankees are ahead in. ”

    LLIME,
    Thats sort of what i was trying to say. Im with ya!

  27. fuhgoobagaz September 3rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    Buckett didn’t get robbed. Post season games and the ASG don’t count in the voting. Dicey K also will have plenty of chances to get a 20 win season, if he sticks around that long. I seriously doubt there is any chance of him going to the HOF, in any event.

    Mussina has a decent chance and 20 wins would help him. That along with pitching a few more years and getting to 300 wins would cinch it for him.

  28. Fernando Alejandro (Respect Jeter's Gangster) September 3rd, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    They need to give Moose 5 starts.

  29. Jorge (México) September 3rd, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Agree, Pete. Moose should have 5 more outings. The problem here is Girardi has showed again and again and again that “common sense” is not a term in his vocabulary.

    He has said, when beat writers asked him if Aceves or Hughes could start some games, that Ponson will remain in the rotation. And surely that will be the case. I understand they want Hughes to reach certain amount of innings. But Aceves? Girardi said that he is a rookie. What? Alfredo has hundreds of AAA innings under his belt. He pitched 6 full seasons down here in México. He’s not a kid. Anyway, I’m sure that he’d pitch much better than Ponson’s last outings. But, what can we do? Unfortunatelly, Joe Girardi is the skipper. He make the calls.

  30. al arodien September 3rd, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    I hope moose wins 20! He really deserves it. if our bullpen doesnt blow his games or the offence scores some runs he would already have 20 wins by now!

  31. 18-6 over the next 24 games ??? HAHAHAHAHA September 3rd, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    ” Joe Girardi had shown great loyalty to Sidney Ponson “…and CLEARLY that is a stroke of genius..I mean, LOOK at what Sir Fat@$$ has done for the team this year, and most importantly over the last 3 games…If you have a chance to honor your loyalty to either a big fat slob who has no business even looking at a Yankees uniform, let alone wearing one and starting even ONE game for the team,,,or the lowly Mike Mussina, who could win 20 games for the Yankees this year….you CLEARLY make sure that Ponson, who is the face AND future of this team…you CLEARLY make sure that it is PONSON that gets the ball as much as possible before the season draws to a close….And IF that last game in Boston is for the Yankees’ final shot at the 2008 playoffs…you CLEARLY want Spongebob SidneyPants on the mound and NOT a man with the experience and ability of the lowly Mike Mussina…

  32. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    Can some explain? What is this 5% chance that Alvaraez becomes a FA?

    Something about the yrs. he has been in college and how Boras wants to chnge the draft, Alvarez has the chance to be the first FA in MLB draft history if Boras wins and if that happens he goes to the highest bidder, being a Washington Heights native there is no way he turns down the chance at playing in NY. He already had BP in the draft tryouts at Yankees Stadium and he loved it there, the Yankees loved him too but were aware he would not fall to them even after the injury scare he had.

    Pedro screw what the critics say you know you want to play in the Bronx make it happen. :D

  33. jennifer September 3rd, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    I also think if a opportunity comes, get him a cheap win, throw him in a game if we lead big after 4 innings.

  34. Rebecca--Optimist Prime September 3rd, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    Moose’s quest for 20 wins is the most intriguing story line of the season right now.

    The Yanks need to get him the starts.

    ***

    Pictures from last night’s Staten Island game are up on my blog if anyone’s interested.

  35. #9 September 3rd, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    “What did you think of Robinson Cano’s comments?”

    OK – here it goes: What comments? Link?

  36. TurnTwo September 3rd, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    “Something about the yrs. he has been in college and how Boras wants to chnge the draft, Alvarez has the chance to be the first FA in MLB draft history”

    can you elaborate on this? its the first ive heard of it… and what makes Boras think he can change the MLB draft by himself?

  37. Fredo Corleone September 3rd, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    “Can some explain? What is this 5% chance that Alvaraez becomes a FA?”

    5% is way too high.

  38. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    Here’s more on the Alvarez situation

    Pedro Alvarez is supposedly as nice a young man as you would ever want to meet.

    So say those who have known Alvarez from his days growing up in the Washington Heights section of New York and his time as an All-America third baseman at Vanderbilt University.

    The Pirates scouts who followed Alvarez throughout the spring leading up to Pittsburgh selecting him with its first-round pick and the second overall selection in June’s first-year player draft concur with that assessment.

    Yet, Alvarez has already put himself in a difficult position before ever donning a Pirates’ uniform. That is, of course, if he ever wears one.

    If and when Alvarez signs with the Pirates, he will automatically become the most-hated player among fans since Dave Parker allowed himself to get woefully out of shape in the early 1980s and became the target of battery throwers in the outfield seats at Three Rivers Stadium.

    Fairly or not, Alvarez is coming across as a punk in the dispute between his agent, Scott Boras, and the Pirates over whether they agreed to contract terms before the midnight deadline on Aug. 15 for draft picks. Sorry for the lack of political correctness but punk is indeed the word that fits in this situation.

    The Pirates say they have a valid verbal agreement with Alvarez on a minor-league contract worth $6 million. Boras says the agreement is null and void because they missed the deadline for filing the contract terms with Major League Baseball by two minutes.

    An arbitrator will decide the matter Sept. 10. There is a growing sentiment around baseball that Boras will try to have Alvarez declared a free agent, so he can take the left-handed hitting slugger on the open market and trump the Pirates’ deal.

    Alvarez, against the advice of Boras, agreed to the $6 million contract. Alvarez took into account that his father is a cab driver in New York. He grew up sharing a room with his sister in a two-bedroom apartment. He realized the $6-million offer that had been on the table for more than two months looked pretty good.

    That Alvarez did not take more than $6 million is apparently driving Boras, who has the largest ego of any agent in baseball, nearly insane, particularly since Florida State catcher Buster Posey, not a Boras client, got $6.2 million from the San Francisco Giants as the No.5 overall pick.

    Somewhere it stood up for Brian Cashman and Omar Minaya

  39. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Brandon,

    Thanks.

  40. wood is good September 3rd, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    I believe Joe will do the right thing and give Moose his chances.

    Has there been any word whatsoever on what the Yankees are planning to do Sept. 21 for the stadium sendoff? (Let’s face it — there’s no postseason a-comin’. 9/21 is the last game ever at the old stadium.)

  41. bardos September 3rd, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    basically the only thing of interest left in the yankee season.

  42. LloydChristmas September 3rd, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    “Plus, just in case, wouldn’t you want him pitching that final game at Fenway Park?”

    Slight correction: “Plus, just in case, wouldn’t you want him pitching that final game OF THE YANKS’ 2008 SEASON at Fenway Park?”

  43. Adam September 3rd, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    Are you all kidding? Who cares if he gets 20 wins? We are in the midst of one of the most disappointing seasons in recent Yankees history and everyone is talking about whether 20 wins is a possibility?

    WE ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE THE PLAYOFF FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 13 YEARS, IN THE LAST SEASON AT “YANKEE” STADIUM!!!

    Do you know what 20 wins and $0.50 will get you this year?

    A damn NY Post.

    (Oh yeah, that and the false sense that Moose is not done, so we bring him back at $13 mil a year next year. Wonderful.)

  44. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    #9,

    I thought the same thing. I will scream if it’s the stuff we’ve rehashed the last 2 days.

  45. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    There is zero reason to screw another starter out of a win just to give Mussina the win, and, even so, it’s up to the official scorer to decide who gets the win. It’s doubtful that Mussina would go with a deal lke that, anyway. He could however pitch in relief of a game where the game is tied on his throw days as Pettitte has done and pick up a win or two.

  46. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Dice-K with a 4-pitch walk after the leadoff single. He gets the job done, but he must fuel Francona’s ulcers.

    Who, btw, said today that Yuk’s out with back spasms. Don’t rush back, now.

  47. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Brandon,

    Thanks.

    I can tell you right now this was definitely planned. There is no way Alvarez is this dumb, he might have done this to squeeze a bit more money or to stay close to home. If I’m Pedro I’m praying Boras wins this case if he doesn’t he is going to be the most hated prospect in Pittsburgh, if Boras wins he’s going to be the most loved in New York City since Manny.

  48. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    I say give Moose 1 or 2 of Sid’s or Rasner’s starts. He gives us a better chance.

    I don’t think Moose will go for the cheap wins. He’ll want to do it right. Besides if he gets his 20 wins, he might just hang it up.

    J/K. He sounded pretty happy yesterday, I expect him to try for 300. He said he felt like he pitch to 50, no?

  49. Mark (Brett is back) September 3rd, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    Just have to get it to 3 games going into the final weekend. I would just love to see that. I hope that can somehow happen.

  50. KING FELIX September 3rd, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    omar will steal alverez from cashman, we always miss the boat on these types of tjins.

    while cashman is in tampa discussing how many AFL innings ian kennedy will get, omar will be on the phone laying the groundwork for getting alverez.

  51. Fredo Corleone September 3rd, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    “If I’m Pedro I’m praying Boras wins this case if he doesn’t he is going to be the most hated prospect in Pittsburgh”

    Brandon, the case isn’t being filed on behalf of Alvarez. He’ll be a Pirate or he won’t be anything for awhile. This is MLBPA vs. MLB. Arbiter may rule in MLBPA’s favor, but it will likely apply to future drafts and draft picks.

  52. bigjf September 3rd, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Moose starts every 5 days this month. That’s not even up for argument, I can’t imagine how it would be. If he doesn’t, Pete deserves to go to town on Girardi for it. For once, I wouldn’t say a thing in return…

  53. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    Brandon, the case isn’t being filed on behalf of Alvarez. He’ll be a Pirate or he won’t be anything for awhile. This is MLBPA vs. MLB. Arbiter may rule in MLBPA’s favor, but it will likely apply to future drafts and draft picks.

    If the contract is null and void he remains unsigned, Boras could have him on the market. It’s unlikely but there is a chance this happens.

  54. Andrea September 3rd, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    20 wins or not, I say skip Ponson.

  55. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    So if the suit fails and Alvarez doesn’t sign with the Pirates, what are his options?

    Does he have to go back into the draft? For how many years. Could he pull an Eli Manning (I hated the Mannings for that). Or is independent ball an option.

    I don’t see a happy ending here.

  56. Fredo Corleone September 3rd, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    “If the contract is null and void he remains unsigned, Boras could have him on the market. It’s unlikely but there is a chance this happens.”

    Yeah, but it’s a lot less than a 5% chance. Maybe .5%.

    What will likely happen is that the arbiter will rule MLB can no longer unilaterally extend the deadline and that going forward, if it happens again, the contracts are voided.

    As Alvarez has no union protection at this juncture and did in fact agree to the contract, he’s going to have to live by it.

  57. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    omar will steal alverez from cashman, we always miss the boat on these types of tjins.

    Alvarez is a first rd. pick the Yankees lost thier pick w/ Cole if Alvarez hits the market Cashman will be the first phone that rings. If it is known in NY that Alvarez is persued by the Yankees his pops and family will play a big part in him making his choice.

  58. ZMAN7777 September 3rd, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    I agree with Andrea. However, when did Mussina become a great Yankee? 20 wins would be nice, but this isn’t Ron Guidry.

  59. Chris September 3rd, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    What they do with Moose on the 11th doesn’t matter. It’s the second off day on the 22nd that matters. If he pitches on the 23rd, he can pitch again on the last day of the season (the 28th).

  60. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    mel, this thing between the Pirates and Boras/Alverez and trying to get Alverez declared FA is the same thing that was done years ago when Bobby Seay and Matt White were drafted and then declared FAs on a technicality…late filing of draft contracts. I believe that Boras was the agent for at least one of them. I also think that boras is trying to get baseball into the courts and get the draft overturned and declared illegal. That last one is just my personal opinion and nothing to base my assumptions on.

  61. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    As Alvarez has no union protection at this juncture and did in fact agree to the contract, he’s going to have to live by it.

    According to the terms it had to be done before the deadline and the verbal commitment came 2 minutes after the deadline, he didn’t sign anything and didn’t do it in time. Fredo this was planned on purpose.

  62. swings & misses September 3rd, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    The only way I see Moose pitching in relief to get a win is if Ponson or Rasner implode before five with a lead still in tact (see: Ponson’s Detroit game on Monday, also Rasner’s start in Baltimore), Moose could then get a shot at pitching the fifth.

  63. Fredo Corleone September 3rd, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Mel:

    Alvarez is almost 100% locked into the Pirates whether the MLBPA wins their case or not, unless the arbitrator invalidates the contract, which is exceedingly unlikely because the case was not filed on Alvarez’s behalf. If he doesn’t sign, he would remain on the restricted list and is NOT eligible for the ’09 draft.

  64. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    GB7,

    Thanks. I can see MLB closing all the loopholes. They won’t let Boras win anything after making a mockery of the slot system. They won’t allow a pipeline to the Yankees/Red Sox/Tigers. I didn’t include the Mets because I’ve read that they play by the rules.

  65. Sidney's paunch September 3rd, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Yes, I do know that the ASG and the post-season don’t count toward the Cy Young. But, all other things being relatively equal, Beckett won 20 games, and Sabathia (in more starts) won 19. This is NOT equivalent to the difference between 18 and 19 wins. Twenty wins is a recognized milestone, which is why it’s a big deal on this blog that Mussina has never done it. Beckett did get robbed. The playoffs merely proved who the better pitcher was.

  66. LGKING September 3rd, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    Boston down 4-0 top 5th. Yankees need a win

  67. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Ellsbury with the web gem. Reeled a home run back into the park.

  68. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    OK, Brandon, we’re referring to the same incidents bqck around 1998 or so. Boras represented one of them and possibly both, I can’t remember. That’s how they go such high bonuses. He created so much confusion and through in constant late requests and the teams (Tampa was one) that time ran out and the technicality was upheld.

  69. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Boras has had other draft selections voided. JD Drew was one of them. He went to play in the independent leagues and he was no longer eligible for the draft.

  70. AZ Four September 3rd, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    Per Rosenthal

    The Red Sox are planning a major push for Blue Jays right-hander A.J. Burnett, according to a rival executive. Burnett, 31, is almost certain to opt out of his contract and become a free agent at the end of the season. Since joining the Jays in 2006, he is 4-0 with a 2.70 ERA in six starts against the Red Sox. Yankees owner Hank Steinbrenner already has revealed his team’s interest in both Burnett and CC Sabathia . . .

    msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8519498/With-Cubs-ownership-uncertain,-Hendry-has-options?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

  71. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    GB the word around baseball is Boras has reason to win this and is doing this to get Alvarez on the market. IDK how he does it but if he does MLB might need to address this strictly or change age eligibility requirements of players.

  72. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    I think that eventually, somebody like Boeas will destroy the draft process and then, money will rule and the kids will have control of their own destiny. The draft was instituted in the first place to kill the Yankee’s dominance over baseball in the mid-60s.

  73. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    ***Boras***

  74. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    Boras has had other draft selections voided. JD Drew was one of them. He went to play in the independent leagues and he was no longer eligible for the draft.

    Interesting.

  75. saucY - automate the strike zones! September 3rd, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    “Ellsbury with the web gem. Reeled a home run back into the park.”

    bah. i could rob a homer with that 3′ right field wall. i was hoping it was in left field. then i’d be impressed.

  76. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    bah. i could rob a homer with that 3′ right field wall. i was hoping it was in left field. then i’d be impressed.

    I can name some one that would have trouble w/ that wall but I’d rather not.

  77. Nick in SF September 3rd, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Um, excuse me, but has anyone considered Ponsons’s feelings about all this?

    Just kidding.

    Moose gives the team the best chance to win. Make it happen.

  78. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    saucY,

    Bah? I seriously doubt that you with your advanced age could even get to the gate in time or Pedroia with his diminuitive stature could reach over it! :)

  79. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Brandon, Boras creates so much last minute confusion with late demands, that it kills the time line. If baseball wants to avoid having the draft killed, the rules need to be changed and the signing deadline moved up to the start of spring training. The other part of that needs to involve the NCAA and amateur baseball association that any student athlete that hires an agent or a lawyer that acts as a go-between would automatically lose his amateur standing in that sport.

  80. Nick in SF September 3rd, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    And Brandon, was it more like old-school 90210 or the OC?

  81. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Not many 12 year olds like Saucy can reach above a three foot wall. Even at Chuck E. Cheese, he couldn’t see over the counter.

  82. saucY - automate the strike zones! September 3rd, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    mel, but i shaved my beard! i’m faster now!

  83. bigjf September 3rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    I recall Crisp having a bit of a problem with that wall as well last year…

  84. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    And Dice-K bounces back nicely. Went 6 innings with 7 K’s.

    Hopefully the O’s pen can hold the lead.

  85. wolf man (2008 is over) September 3rd, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    dice-k will get a ND

  86. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    Saucy avoids the amusement parks that have signs that say. “If you aren’t this high, you can’t ride on this.”

  87. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    saucY,

    That may be true, but making the play would require you to put down that pie and brew. :)

  88. Mark (Brett is back) September 3rd, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    Scranton and Trenton start their playoffs tonight. Both playing the affliates of the Sox.

    Lets go Thunder and SWB.

  89. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    And Brandon, was it more like old-school 90210 or the OC?

    It was OC meets One Tree Hill, the parents had a part, Jennie Garth on the show has a son, people think it’s a kid she has kept a secret from Brandon because the kid is 4 yrs. old. Umm a girl named Naomi is playing the Kelly Taylor role, the black kid is the Brandon Walsh of this 90210, the girl called Silver is Kelly’s sister Erin (get it Silver as in Mel Silver her dad) So she is the next generation of the Taylor Silver, umm what else, Annie Mills she is the Brenda Walsh but more of a nice girl, the heart throb is a surfer kid/lacrosse player named Ethan he is more like the Steve Sanders of this show. All in all it kept you watching, interested and confused at times, I mean Beverely Hills seemed so innocent back in the days and now you notice alot has changed, Nat is still at the Peach Pit and Brenda returned last night.

  90. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    The only way that baseball can defeat Boras in his attempts to break the draft, would be to make those players inelible to be signed by a major league team for two full ML baseball seasons. Not many players are going to risk that.

  91. Al from BK(Brett Ratliff fan) September 3rd, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Moose has shown that he can still pitch by re-inventing himself. He definitely deserves a new contract, however the Yanks should drop Andy and give his money to CC. I get this feeling that Andy will try his best Brett Favre impersonation this offseason and complain about being with his family to the media. So why not cut him loose before he has this opportunity.

  92. Josh September 3rd, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    I couldn’t agree more with you, Pete!

  93. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Nick it’s on youtube since you missed it.

  94. SJ44 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    Brandon,

    Boras has very little chance to win this case. The Drew Case was an entirely different scenario under a different system.

    Just because Scott Boras wants to win doesn’t mean its going to happen.

    What will probably end up happening is, Alvarez will remain property of the Pirates and will not be put on the open market.

    All Scott is achieving with this is to sully the kid’s reputation in an attempt to overhaul the draft system.

    Its HIGHLY unlikely he will win.

  95. Decisions September 3rd, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    There is a real chance the Yankees aren’t making the playoffs. Either way, Mussina should start as often as he can. At least one thing good should come from this season, him winning 20. If they played half as good as they should have, he would already have that 20 and be a Cy Young contender (outside shot with Lee dominating).

  96. saucY - automate the strike zones! September 3rd, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    and i have no need to see over the counter at chuck e cheese. the chinese finger cuffs are a no-brainer!

  97. Paul September 3rd, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Alot depends on whether Moose wins in his next start in Seattle. If he does and is at 18, then he heeds to get 2 wins in 4 starts and it makes sense to fly him straight home and let him pitch in the first game back at the Stadium having had a few days to get back on East Coast time.

    From what one has read about Ponson — at least during this stint with the Yanks — he’s been a good teammate. There’s a good chance he’d let Girardi adjust the rotation so that Moose could have a better shot at 20. From a totally selfish standpoint, that would also make sense for Ponson since he is a FA at the end of the year and he needs to clear up the behavior issue as much as anything in order to get clubs to give him a shot.

  98. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    SJ I got a question in the event that Boras does win the case in your opinion what happens ?

  99. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    Pedroia’s the MVP right now, but should you discount him for his power? He gets under the ball because he’s so freaking short.

    GB,

    I know it’s apples and oranges, but the NBA does it right with the rookie contracts (would like to see the NFL do that because the high picks guaranteed money is more than the GNP of some countries). I think that the NBA holds the rights to draftees for two years. Some of the Euro players decide not to come, opting to play in Europe instead.

    C’mon Walker.

  100. Drive 4-5 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    I’m watching the Red Sux game. Pefroia just hit a home run. The kid is very comfortable at the plate and swings from his heels. For the life of me I can’t understand why no one moves him off the plate or knocks him back.

    The Yanks arent catching anything other than a cold in the near future. I was glad to see Moose win last night, but another win tonight doesnt excite me at all. Am I the only one here that hopes the Rays hold on?

  101. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    I hadn’t thought about Chinese finger cuffs in years. Was always great to find some unsuspecting sucker to try those on. What great memories of my wasted youth.

  102. Brandon (90210 was worth it )..."we play today, we lose today, das it". September 3rd, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    For the life of me I can’t understand why no one moves him off the plate or knocks him back.

    Because pitch low and inside to a player like Pedroia is considered head hunting.

  103. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    Mel, they need to check Pedroia’s meds. I think that he’s getting the industrial strength stuff. He’s hyper-active, but, a lot of players like him burn bright for a few years and then just fizzle out. Juan Samuel comes to mind. Max effort swings and jittery movement at his position.

  104. SJ44 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    SJ,

    Depends on what the “win” is. The arbitrator could rule that Alvarez’s rights still belong to the Pirates and he has a time induced window to negotiate a deal with them.

    I think its very unlikely the arbitrator would make Alvarez free to sign with anybody.

    The best case scenario for Boras would be that the kid would have to go back into the draft next year. I don’t know how that’s good for anybody.

    Its certainly not good for Alvarez because there is no guarantee he gets 6 million dollars next year.

    Plus, there is no guarantee he can return to Vanderbilt next season. I’m sure the NCAA would like to know how he paid for his new wheels and that would probably kill his eligibility.

    I don’t believe he’s registered for classes at Vanderbilt this semester. I’m going to be in Nashville on business this weekend. I will ask around to see if that’s true.

    Scott has 5 of the Top Ten picks for the draft in 2009. His plan is clear…..He wants to blow up the draft.

    What’s unclear is if he has grounds to do so. Alvarez is the case that will determine that.

    You have two kinds of Scott Boras clients. True believers, like Mark Teixiera and, apparently Alvarez. Guys who would walk through fire if Boras told them to do so.

    The other kind of Boras client is a guy like Varitek, who tells him, “get me the best deal you can but, I decide where I play”.

    Those guys make up about 15-20% of his client list.

  105. Nick in SF September 3rd, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Brandon, thanks for the info. I remember when Brandon Walsh got into sports gambling. Seemed kind of far-fetched. I wonder when Dylan is going to roll into town.

    Maybe I’ll check it out, but I still have to watch the new Prison Break! Yikes.

    But not until after I watch the new episode of CSI: Pavano.

  106. GreenBeret7 September 3rd, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Mel, I agree and I look for college players who are unhappy with the teams that drafted them to go to the South Korean leagues or Japanese leagues for experience and then sell themselves to the highest bidders.

  107. mel September 3rd, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Jeez, that last half inning was 5 batters too many with 2 outs.

  108. 86w183 September 3rd, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    I’ve covered college sports for years so let me clarify things on this Boras/Alvarez/Drew/White et al situation.

    You used to own the draft rights to a player for a year. Now its just till August 15th.

    J.D. Drew simply didn’t sign with the Phillies in ’97, and was drafted by St. Louis in ’98 and signed with the Cardinals. He was not a free agent and would have had to sit out a second year to become one. Luke Hochevar did the same thing two years ago and was also redrafted.

    Seay and White were declared FA because neither received a formal contract offer by the deadline, not because they didn’t sign. Perhaps Boras is trying to claim the Pirates never made a formal, written offer thus making Alvarez a FA. Perhaps he’s just trying to get the verbal “agreement” voided so Alvarez can sit out and see what happens next June. I don’t know.

    As for the NCAA, the rules are there but the hypocrites who run the organization have alreays turned a blind eye to baseball agents even through they are more of a scourge in baseball than either basketball or football.

    The NFL is going for a rookie wage scale in its next CBA with the players and you can count on MLB trying to negotiate the same thing when their time comes. Roo much money in both sports is being wasted on guys who never contribute anything close to what they receive up front.

  109. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing September 3rd, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is Scott Boras trying to achieve in blowing up the draft? Higher $$ signings?

  110. rover September 3rd, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Personally I would like to see Moose get every chance at 20, he has pitched well enough on a not so hot team to earn the shot. It can be said that Moose once on short rest is likely to be better than Sir Ponson or Razz. Go for it.

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