Yankees taking care of the Rays, at least
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- September
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The Yankees are 9-5 against the Rays this season and have beaten them five times at Tropicana Field in seven games.
Why are those statistics significant? Tampa Bay is .500 or better against every other team in the division and is 52-20 at home. No other team has a better home record.
The Yankees are 4-0 against the Rays since July 1, outscoring them 22-7.
How in the world did the Yankees go 23-28 against the Reds, Indians, Tigers, Orioles, Royals, Pirates and Rangers but have so much success against Tampa Bay? Not taking care of business against bad teams is what did them in this season.
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on Thursday, September 4th, 2008 at 10:43 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
and now we’re helping out the Sox.
Ughh.
If Tampa wasn’t so far ahead I think we could catch them. But 10 games is a ton.
“How in the world did the Yankees go 23-28 against the Reds, Indians, Tigers, Orioles, Royals, Pirates and Rangers but have so much success against Tampa Bay?”
Lack of clutch hitting, in a nutshell.
Pete –
Now, THAT I can agree with 100%! Those teams that they used to beat up on gave them too much trouble when they should not have.
Pete,
Same old song, no different from the other seasons. They don’t get up to play the marginal teams and think they can make up for it in last 2 months.
Does anyone know the next tiebreaker within a division? We are 7-8 against Boston. If we have even records and even the season series, what’s next? If it’s record against division opponents, we’re 24-20 so far and Boston is 24-21.
I’m probably wrong but…...I do feel a rush coming.The last three games against the Sox may be very,very, very interesting.
You know, helping out the Sox might not be a bad thing.
Hear me out.
If Boston gets enough help to overtake the division and Tampa keeps on faltering, the Yankees are looking at just leapfrogging one of Minnesota/ChiSox for the Wild Card.
It would take something of a miracle-
a 10 game, 12 game win streak for the Yankees and a matching losing streak from the Rays-but as the great Yogi said,“it ain’t over till it’s over”.
Hey, we’ve already won as many games on this 10 game road trip as we did in the entire 10 game road trip last time.
Do a little better research, Pete. Truth is, Tampa does not have a winning record against the Red Sox this season. Their season series stands at 6-6, with each team winning all the games at their home park.
Thanks for the help, guys, I go back to rooting against the Yankees tomorrow. By the time Tampa leaves Boston next Wednesday, the Sox will be in first place.
“Not taking care of business against bad teams is what did them in this season.”
You have to look deeper than that.
Close to 40% of the Yankee plate appearances have come from Melky, Cano, Molina, Pudge, Duncan, Gardner, Christian, Betemit, Ensberg, Moeller, Stewart, Gonzalez, Sexson, and Ransom. In fact, the collective bench guys have had over 600 plate appearances with a performance even crappier than Melky. Melky only had about 440 plate appearances with that kind of garbage production. So that is a huge waste of 40% of the team’s plate appearances between all those guys. People can bash Jeter and ARod and Giambi all they want, but this is the real reason the offense has stuggled so much this year. Too much playing time for guys who can’t hit anything. The Yankee minor leagues just couldn’t handle the task of adequately replacing all the injured/ineffective hitters all season long.
And the rotation has been full of Rasner’s and Ponson’s and deprived of Wang’s and Pavano’s. Hughes and Kennedy have given nothing to the team.
So, those are the main things that did them in this season.
Miggs I went to McCoy last night to see SWB play the baby Sux. They showed part of the 7th inning Yanks-Rays game on the teletron and then they announced the score of the game at that point (Yanks leading) The place erupted. What a skunky feeling that was!
Doreen,
Found an article last night, you might have seen it if you get the Times. Thought you would enjoy it.
Even when things aren’t going the way we want, it’s still great to be a Yankee fan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/sports/baseball/30heller.html?_r=1&ref=baseball&oref=slogin
btw the pavano thing was a joke. I just re-read it and it doesn’t really come off like one. my bad.
we all know carl is useless.
John L,
You’re welcome. Leaving now?
If our beating TB ends up helping BOS, there is nothing that we can do about that. I want the Yankees to go out strong. If, in the end, they come out short, at least they will have put up a fight.
I seems apparent this team coasted against bad/mediocre teams expecting their talent to carry them through but has really focused on the toughest competition and played them on even (or superior) terms.
It also goes to show that they aren’t light years from returning to the World Series, but they do need to make major moves to get there.
You meant it as a joke but it’s still kind of true… a healthy Pavano is definitely worth something, that’s why they signed him. Between Wang, Joba, and Pavano we had 3 very good starters out of the rotation for various reasons, for most of the season.
I laugh everytime i see something about the Yankees helping out Boston by beating on Tampa. What would you like them to do, throw the games? Boston is definitely beating up on the Orioles. They still have 6 with Tampa. Remind me, did Tampa sweep Boston twice already this year? In Boston? 7 with Toronto, including a double header, who has also played them tough this year.
PLus dare i say, Texas, who we know can hit. Boston will have to earn that Division/Wildcard berth. I’d worry about Minnesota more than anyone. They are finished with Boston and NY this year.
Laura,
I agree. The unis say ‘Yankees’, not ‘Anti-Sox’. I like how we’re playing the Rays. Is a win tonight too much to ask for? I don’t want to see the Rays’ fans putting up all those ‘K’s and getting free pizza for the fans if Kazmir hits 10.
How did Pete write what did the Yankees in this season without blaming Arod?
“I agree. The unis say ‘Yankees’, not ‘Anti-Sox’. I like how we’re playing the Rays. Is a win tonight too much to ask for? I don’t want to see the Rays’ fans putting up all those ‘K’s and getting free pizza for the fans if Kazmir hits 10.”
I like our chances against Kaz tonight. He’s been struggling since the ASG. Our big concern will be if Rasner can keep us in the game.
mel –
Thanks.
You’re right – I did read that article. I had a nice little chuckle with my husband, because it was eerily akin to some of the back-and-forth we’ve had this season.
Our latest disagreement is that he thinks the Yankees want Joba to be in the bullpen period. And if they don’t, they should send him to whatever winter ball he qualifies for to build up his innings. (Frankly, on the second point, I can’t argue.)
“Thanks for the help, guys, I go back to rooting against the Yankees tomorrow. By the time Tampa leaves Boston next Wednesday, the Sox will be in first place.”
John L you are thoroughly familiar with a sensation we have seldom had to know. Looking longingly at first place. So I will say “you’re welcome” for the thousands of times you’ve hoped some team would beat the Yankees to help you into first! And “so sorry” for the multitudinous times you ended up disappointed.
How did Pete write what did the Yankees in this season without blaming Arod?
Probably because while we has been awful in the clutch, he at least managed to post an avg. over .310 and will likely have his 40 hr and 115 rbis when it is over. No one else on the team is even close to that production. So he is at least offering something.
With the Sox only 3 games back of the Rays now, the results of NY, Tampa and Boston’s games in the next 4 days might find Yankee fans rooting for the Sox to beat Tampa when they meet to play on Monday.
The twists and turns of a baseball season does make for same strange bedfellows
There’s no way the Red Sox take first place from the Rays, even if the Yankees sweep them. All the sox fans I’ve talked to seem to think the series with Texas has already been won, and then they’re going to sweep the Rays. Not going to happen.
Normally we beat everyone else, but lose to the Rays.
As I would think our only realistic hope of getting to the postseason would be to beat our the Sux, I will continue to root for every team to knock the crap out of them. However that is entirely effortless for me!
I guess it shouldn’t be any surprise that we’re beating Tampa since we’ve done well against them this season. What that also says is it may be as probable that they will go back to their winning ways once we’re gone.
At least a Yankee win tonight accomplishes one thing – moves us up on the Sux.
The Yanks have had 47 games started by the combination of Ponson/Rasner/Hughes/Kennedy/Igawa.
In those games the starters have averaged fewer than 5 innings (4.87), posted an ERA of 6.45 with an 8-22 record.
In the other 92 games the starter has averaged more than an inning more per start (5.95) with a 3.83 ERA and a 43-23 record.
Yes run production is way down. But if 1/3 of the games hadn’t been pitched so poorly they could have overcome it.
Doreen,
Joba’s fate will depend on who we get in the winter, who stays, and how Phil phares.
I think the Yankees should start Joba in the spring so he can build up the innings and then finish the season in the bullpen when he approaches the appropriate limit. Why?
1. It allows Joba to do what he’s always done. Start.
2. It allows him to build up his innings with big chunks.
3. It’ll be steady work, easier on the body.
4. If (heaven forbid) he gets hurt, there might still be time to come back and build innings.
5. It’ll help the Yankees build up a cushion early in the season.
6. Joba can be the shutdown 8th inning guy in the playoffs if we make it there.
I’ve read the Yankees are going to start him in the pen, and who knows after that. They know best of course, but you really open the door to Joba not building making progress as far as thresholds are concerned.
But it’s a win/win for Joba. He’ll either be a front-line starter or a kickass closer. While he might want the former, he probably realizes that the latter might be more likely if he has problems staying healthy. Either way, I’m glad he’s a Yankee, and not a…Ray.
“But if 1/3 of the games hadn’t been pitched so poorly they could have overcome it.
If IFS and BUTS were CANDY and NUTS…...
BTW, the Yankees have scored 3 runs or less in about a third of their games. If they hadn’t hit so poorly, they could have overcome it, right?
The rumor is that his shoulder is completely fine, that he had some mild tightness and at this point wishes he had never said anything about it in the first place.
Starting pitchers pitch roughly half their starts with some type of discomfort, a quarter more feeling just ok, and the other quarter feeling great.
I think it is just something he needs to get accustomed to. My opinion? He will be fine as a starter.
Just gotta keep on winning
Some of those games started by the #4/#5 guys were actually won. And had some good run support. And were pitching gems that had insufficient support.
The lessons learned this season will make the team and players better.
“There’s no way the Red Sox take first place from the Rays, even if the Yankees sweep them. All the sox fans I’ve talked to seem to think the series with Texas has already been won, and then they’re going to sweep the Rays. Not going to happen.”
I think the Redsox have taken every game from Texas this year so a series win isnt too outlandish of a concept. As to Rays. the sox have swept all the games at fenway and the rays have sept all the games at tropicana, so itll probably be more of the same there.
There is a good analysis of the Yankees defense at the Replacement Level blog, Pete has the link in his blog roll.
The Yankees are by far the worst defensive team in MLB. All of the flubs by Cano, Damon, Giambi and Abreu have hurt the team big time.
Defense was a strength of Melky and if the rest of the team could field a ball, they could have carried Melky’s bat.
http://www.replacementlevel.com/
“The Yankees are by far the worst defensive team in MLB. All of the flubs by Cano, Damon, Giambi and Abreu have hurt the team big time.”
I don’t know that much about the quality of defensive stats – but FWIW Rick Sutcliff said last night the Yanks are 3rd in fielding percentage in the league.
“I’m probably wrong but……I do feel a rush coming.The last three games against the Sox may be very,very, very interesting.”
You’re correct. You’re probably wrong.
“I think the Redsox have taken every game from Texas this year so a series win isnt too outlandish of a concept. As to Rays. the sox have swept all the games at fenway and the rays have sept all the games at tropicana, so itll probably be more of the same there.”
That may be the case, but my money says the Red Sox aren’t going on a 9 game win streak. The Rays know the sox are close and I just don’t see them folding now. We’ll see though. Should be an interesting couple of weeks.
Probable pitchers against the Yanks out west:
Seattle: Morrow, Rowland-Smith and Silva
Anaheim: Santana, Weaver and Moseley
Joba’s fate will depend on who we get in the winter, who stays, and how Phil phares.
mel,
I said that the other day when all of this started. I agree with your assessment. That was my argument with my husband – they can’t make that definitive of a decision on Joba AT LEAST until they add another pitcher. Right now, as it stands, they would absolutely need Joba to be a starter.
I wonder, though, if Joba does really, really great starting as a starter, would they be inclined to put him back into the pen? And if they’re on track for the playoffs and he’s been their #1 starter, wouldn’t they want him to start in the playoffs?
It’s all academic, of course, because nothing’s in concrete right now, and too many factors are merely assumptions right now.
I just hope they take care of that boy’s arm!
That would be Morrow’s first game as a starter.
OK, I get that they want to leave Joba in the bullpen for the rest of the season, though I think it’s dumb. But why on earth are both Ponson and Rasner still in the rotation now that Giese is off the DL? Can anyone explain this?
“I think the Redsox have taken every game from Texas this year so a series win isnt too outlandish of a concept. As to Rays. the sox have swept all the games at fenway and the rays have sept all the games at tropicana, so itll probably be more of the same there”
Boston has won all seven from Texas, but all seven were at Fenway. The road has not been as kind to them as Fenway has, though in their last 6 road series they have won 5 and split a 4 gamer in Chicago. Still see the Rays as very much in the driver’s seat but they do close with 17 of 24 on the road while Boston has 14 of their last 20 in their own barnyard.
The Yankees have a high fielding percentage, but you don’t get charged with an error when you take a bad root to the ball or refuse to lay out.
I think the Redsox have taken every game from Texas this year so a series win isnt too outlandish of a concept. As to Rays. the sox have swept all the games at fenway and the rays have sept all the games at tropicana, so itll probably be more of the same there.
Am i wrong, or was this the opposite. I thought Tampa swept Boston twice at Fenway and Sox swept Tampa in Tampa.
Well Beckett will be coming back for the first time since his last stinko. We can always hope that his arm will be as trusty as it was the last time.
I have a feeling Beckett will miss more starts before this season is over.
Nations, the sweeps were in their own parks.
Must be nice playing in a little crapbox. Funny that the Sux can’t do much in something as large as the Trop.
NoW:
You’d be incorrect sir. Home team has won every game of the Boston/Tampa series so far.
So in a couple of years the Yanks will be back in 1st place and the Rays fans will say ” Yeah those guys were pesky a couple of years back. We saw this coming.”
The roles have officially been reversed!
Not too good.
If The Yanks end up missing out by 1 or 2 games, I may need psychiatric help.
“The Yankees have a high fielding percentage, but you don’t get charged with an error when you take a bad root to the ball or refuse to lay out.”
Good point Rebecca. That stat was more about the Yankees inability to get to balls moreso than their abilitiy to field it when they do get there.
Joba’s fate should not be based upon any signing or trade.
He belongs in the rotation. It shouldn’t even be a topic of debate.
Miggs:
Unless health issues suggest otherwise, I’m with you 100%.
Trisha that must have turned your stomach hearing those cheers.
Sox fans disgust me…
Fredo/Rebecca –
Like I said I don’t put much stock in defensive stats – but the guy said “The Yankees are by far the worst defensive team in MLB.” which I think was overboard.
I debated this yesterday with someone on here who wanted him in the bullpen because of his latest injury.
If the Yankees put every young pitcher in the pen when they had arm trouble they’d have no staff except Mussina. Wang tore his rotator cuff his first year then went on to win 19 games 2 years straight with 200+ innings. Imagine how silly it would be if they had decided to make him a reliver.
Pitchers get injured. It happens. The guy has 3 plus pitches, is working on a 4th, and throws 98 MPH in the 7th inning of his starts. He dominated the Sox. Utterly dominated them. A pitcher with his arm comes along once every 10 years.
Yeah, let’s use him in the bullpen !!!
After this series the Yankees head out west. If they keep focused, they can sweep the Mariners but the Angels are a tough read.
They are close to clinching and may rest some regulars to keep them fresh or healed for the playoffs. It doesn’t mean they’ll be slackers but the Yankees should take advantage of every little edge to come back for their final homestand on a high note.
At this point the Yankees need help from all other teams in fending off Boston and Minnesota or Chicago while taking care of their own business. Girardi better be pushing the right buttons.
TK:
Don’t watch everyone else enough to know how good or bad they are, but if there are 5 teams who have played worse defense than the Yankees have this year, I’d be stunned.
Red Sox will lose 2 out of 3 this weekend to Texas.
All it is is a lack of focus. We all know talent wise no one can compete with there lineup. They need someone to get on these guys and let them know they cant take games off etc. They have to get rid of Kevin Long and Meacham right away then work on signing CC, another pitcher and Tex if they can. They should not give up on Hughes but can trade melky and kennedy if they get a 1B or CF.
“but can trade melky and kennedy if they get a 1B or CF.”
Melky and Kennedy don’t get you anything good.
Miggs, it really stunk. It will stink even moreso hearing again tonight, though it will also mean we have picked up 1/2 game on the Sux.
Pete – I personally believed that after their magnificent run in the 90s going into 2000 that the Yankees weren’t hungry enough anymore. So I saw the devolution almost as the following: everyone used to say that the Yankees used the regular season as batting practice for the postseason. It seemed the more and more they had trouble getting up for all but their most fierce competition. But they always made it to the postseason. Now it seems it took getting to the brink of disaster for the team to feel motivated enough to play like they should have been playing all season.
Hungry teams play like hungry teams. Teams who have been there unfortunately sometimes take it for granted.
“Red Sox will lose 2 out of 3 this weekend to Texas.”
the sox are lucky that they avoided texas until now, when the summer heat is largely over. the cooler temperatures, along with the sox recent hot play and potential return of several key sox players make a series loss more unlikely.
There’s no point to the Joba debate until/unless it is clear what the true health of his shoulder is. IF he is 100 percent sound he absolutely should be a starter and I think the overwhelming majority agrees.
Easy Fredo—- just pointing out how bad 1/3 of the Yankees starts have been to reinforce the notion that starting pitching has to be job one this off-season. Yeah if they hit better it matters less, but crappy starting pitching and lousy defense put a lot of pressure on hitters and could well be a factor in lousy RISP stats this year.
Count me among those convinced the Yanks are a terrible defensive team. Case in point the sinking line drive that fell in front of Damon last night. Nice effort, but 90 % of MLB CF get to that ball. It’s not an error, but it is a defensive weakness… ditto the ball falling between Nady and Jeter. The Yanks don’t take away many hits and regularly give the opposition extra outs
I was at the first two games of this series in Tampa. A couple of things. It was nice to travel thousands of miles to see the Yankees win twice, Derek smiling at Zim, watching Zim talk to Stick Michael (too bad I can’t read lips), and being a part of baseball history by witnessing the first use of replay in baseball history.
But I am frustrated to see the Yankees handily beat this Tampa team on the road while playing less than stellar baseball all season. It’s also a bit much to watch a pitcher for 4+ innings who took a 3-year paid vacation.
Maybe I’m alone here but NOT making the playoffs may not be such a bad thing. What do we win by getting in the playoffs as a wild card team? The Anaheim Rally Monkeys in the first round. Do I really need to spend another week in October worrying about whether A-Rod could handle the playoffs but more importantly, do I need to go through another first-round elimination?
Playoffs or no playoffs, we all know that we will see a different team on the field next year.
Art——
I’ll take ten straight first round sxits any day! It’s like the Florida Basketball team going five years and winning just two of seven NCAA Tournament games. Then they won two straight NCAA Titles. The moral of the story: you keep gunning for post-season play no matter what, because you can’t win it all without getting in.
They’ll make the needed changes whether they finishin strongly or not. So why not take a run at it? Go 17-and-6 (or better) the rest of the way and see what happens.
One thing this year just might do is get fans, players, media and the front office to appreciate how great it is to make the playoffs. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to win it all, but there is something wrong with the mindset that only a WS Title is acceptable.
Then again, I started going to Yankss games in 1964 at age six and saw a lot of bad teams over the years.
Laura,
Here’s hoping Girardi has Rasner on a short leash. For we have Aceves available, Joba and Mo tonight. Aceves can pitch a couple of innings, at least.
The Rays, for all their pitching and athleticism, aren’t a patient hitting lineup. That has worked in our favor so far, as it did when they came into the Stadium earlier for the two-set.
mel,
Thanks for that link; it made me smile. The thing about being a Yankee fan is that for most of us, it is a birth right. Happily, we have no say. Happily, we prefer the occasional misery to someone else’s fleeting glories, because it’s OUR misery.
Being a Yankee fan is one of the 10 ways I would define myself, right up there with other essential, ineluctable things about me. I am a Yankee fan to my core.
I know I’m not alone
jk
September 4th, 2008 at 11:28 am
There is a good analysis of the Yankees defense at the Replacement Level blog, Pete has the link in his blog roll.
The Yankees are by far the worst defensive team in MLB. All of the flubs by Cano, Damon, Giambi and Abreu have hurt the team big time.
Defense was a strength of Melky and if the rest of the team could field a ball, they could have carried Melky’s bat.
http://www.replacementlevel.com/
__
Did Jeter and Rodriguez flub a few, also? I’m shocked that you didn’t finger Rodriguez, but, in no way surprised that Jeter escaped scrutiny. Aren’t they as guilty as the rest?
Alright, this could get real interesting if the Yankees can pull what the Rockies did last year. If we can take down the Sox and get in the wild card, chances are the Angels will have the most wins and pick us over the white sox or rays. While the Angels have an absolutely stacked pitching staff, we don’t really have anyone other than Mussina.
so ending this season early isn’t that bad given that getting destroyed in the ALDS again is just prolonged pain.
Pete, the Yanks have won 5 games at the Trop this year
“But I gave up on them last year and vowed I wouldn’t do it again. So until they’re mathematically eliminated, I’ll continue to use magical thinking and tell myself that somehow, some way, my team and I will get through this.”
Me all the way! ‘Ceptin I didn’t give up on them last year.
I think being a Yankee is a double-edge sword in that it gives a player an automatic cachet, and sometimes wearing pinstripes can subconsciously substitute for needing to play hard all the time. When you play for the Avis Sux, your need to continually prove yourself seems to be motivation enough.
Eh.
Other teams get up to play the Yanks, when and if the Yanks don’t receiprocate the outcome is far more predictable. For the most part the yanks are comprised of vets, and are likely to be more dificult to light a fire under than guys who are just happy to have a home and check. It is within this role that Girardi may have repeat may have failed the team. For the most this season has been one of underperformance ok and a lot of key injuries. However, those who have played somewhat regularly have been mostly lacklustre particularly in key situations. I honestly don’t know the answer for this but believe it starts in the clubhouse. I keep seeing references to Icecream in the locker room, I’ve no idea as to why I see that soooo. Can a manager have an adverse affect on players? I’ve yet to hear any player say anything about Joe G. other than the niceties you would expect to read and hear. As I remember it seems to me that there was for more vocal respect for Joe T. Don’t know what or if that is even relevant the fact remains I have yet to hear anything suggesting true respect or even love of Joe G. Only my uninformed opion.
While they are saying and doing all the right things, the Yankees know that they are out of it absent a miracle. The result is that they are as loose as I have seen them all season. You can see it in their faces.
Playing relaxed and with more confidence, A-Rod is ready to go on a tear. You can see it. No more squeezing the bat until the sawdust hits the ground.
The Rays, on the other hand, look scared. They were sloppy last night, and the relaxed Yankees took advantage. The Rays have a number of guys who have never been in first place this late in the season. If the Yankees win tonight, the Rays are in trouble and they know it.
The Red Sox are not going to collapse. They have too many home games left, and they are a completely different team at home.
Tampa could collapse, and the result could be pretty interesting for the Yankees if the Yankees can win 8 or 10 in a row.
At this point, the pressure is off the Yankees. Everyone says that they are done. They can play loose and see what happens. They have nothing to lose.