Pitching matchups for the Mariners series
-
- September
- 5
Tonight: LHP Andy Pettitte (13-11, 4.52) vs. RHP Brandon Morrow (1-2, 1.47), 10:10 ET, YES
Saturday: RHP Sidney Ponson (7-5, 5.13) vs. LHP Ryan Rowland-Smith (4-2, 3.56), 10:10 ET, YES
Sunday: RHP Mike Mussina (17-7, 3.39) vs. RHP Carlos Silva (4-14, 6.53), 4:10 ET, YES
——————
Check back (much) later for the lineups. I’m on a 6:30 a.m. flight to Houston then on to Seattle.
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on Friday, September 5th, 2008 at 5:55 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Thanks, Pete.
Safe travels…
Thanks Pete.
I’m excited to see Morrow face the Yankees tonight. He’s supposed to be Seattle’s version of Joba Chamberlain as they’ve basically gone through a very similar process to get to their current points. I’ve been living in Seattle for about a year now and have been dying to see the Yanks play.
I haven’t really liked Seattle all that much, but a saving grace is that Safeco Field is beautiful, the food is great, the tickets are cheap and I’ll finally get to see the Yankees while sitting in good seats that are relatively close to the field (for all 3 games). Cool stuff.
If Ponson actually pitches on Saturday AND gets shelled AS IS VIRTUALLY a LOCK….then babye Yankees 2008…I wish I could say that it has been nice knowin’ ya….BECAUSE IT HAS NOT !
Umm, DVAB – hasn’t anyone told you that the season is already over regardless of what happens against Seattle? Ponson isn’t even the worst starter in the rotation (see D. Rasner).
AAll I can say after this lost season is that, despite the success of Joba the Yankees clearly need some better talent scouting. They also need to return to that magic formula of signing a free agent here and there to complement a large crop of home grown talent. Of late they have started to drift too far towards the old George approach of signing big contracts for aging talent.
“Rasner, who has one victory and a 6.79 ERA in his last 12 appearances.”....and regardless of this season being over or not…..it takes 12 starts of PURE CRAP before someone on the Yankees gets his head out of his arse and starts even TALKING about finding someone better for the job ? Ditto for Sir Sidney the Smurf, who was good for a whole 3 starts, then reverted to taking the POUNDINGS that any good team should beat him down with. The monkeys at the controls of the Yankees are clearly asleep, as having these 2 complete FLOPS in the rotation has been the nail in the 2008 NYY Coffin for some time. NOT getting Aceves OR anyone else that has an actual future with the team, some REAL MLB EXPERIENCE ( which MORON GIRARDI so blatantly throws out as the very reason that the kids DON’T get starts = the STUPIDEST of STATEMENTS )...is moronic and counterproductive. This season can’t end soon enough…and is is going to take a new manager, a BA-BYE to Cashman and the club going out and getting some actual TEAM PLAYERS,,,like CC, Sheets, Burnett AND the Tex-Man for 2009 to be any different…
“Ponson has a 6.22 ERA in his 12 starts for the Yankees.”
“Rasner, has one victory and a 6.79 ERA in his last 12 appearances.”...and the NEW YORK FRICKIN’ YANKEES keep allowing these bums to start games ???? What the HALE is going on ??? Neither of these bums should be even on the Roster anymore and they certainly don’t come back in 2009 in any other capacity than, say, beer vendor, right ? Plug in Aceves and Hughes ….or are the Scranton Minor League playoffs REALLY that important ???
So all we need is to win 5 or 6 out of the next 6 road games ( against SEA and LAA ) and we will be looking good….right ?
What ever happened to Girardi’s professed “you have to earn your spot” comments? I certainly don’t think Rasner earned it. Ponson hasn’t earned it.
Honestly, Girardi hasn’t earned it either.
Rasner and Ponson do not fit in with any 2009 plans. There’s nothing to lose by giving their starts to Aceves and Wright the rest of the month.
Only delusionals believe any chances remain. Too many things have to happen to consider anything else.
In the 9th inning, Giambi leaned on the dugout rail with a look of knowing his fate and that he would never get a ring as a Yankee. Play him sparingly and gets looks at Juan Miranda at 1st base at the conclusion of the AAA playoffs.
Girardi needs to use daring strategies as a test of changing his managerial approaches in 2009 which obviously need changing.
If Ponson pitches the game Saturday, does that deprive Mussina of a 5th start that he may need to hit 20?
“What ever happened to Girardi’s professed “you have to earn your spot†comments? I certainly don’t think Rasner earned it. Ponson hasn’t earned it.”
Problem is they need 5 starters but don’t have 5 available guys who have truly earned a spot.
I’d have plugged in Chase Wright and either Kennedy or Hughes for these clowns weeks ago. 2/3 of the time the Yanks are among the best teams in the game and 1/3 of the time the Yankees are among the worst thanx to the pathetic starts they have gotten from the underbely of the rotation.
Hard to believe that Ponson is really getting another start. Makes me wonder exactly what he would have to do tobe removed from the rotation. Armed robbery? I think most of his starts have been a form of armed robbery.
There’s no one else. Hughes & Kennedy screwed the pooch this year. There’s no AAA depth. Who’s left there Igawa? They traded Karstens & Ohlendorf. Even Pavano’s up! Most of the youngs arms are in the lower levels, and they don’t want to keep rushing guys through AA, like Hughes & Kennedy, because we all know how that turned out. So now you basically have Rasner & Ponson taking one for the team.
Oh yeah Chase Wright is Rasner light.
If the Jays have their way with the Socks and the Yankees don’t take care of business in Seattle, the Yankees could find themselves in 4th place BEHIND the Jays.
Girardi is not going to spill about his plans for the future… I don’t know why, but he holds his future plans more tightly than Torre ever did. So much for learning how to be media savvy. Ras or Ponson is not Girardi’s fault. It’s not like he has CC Sabathia or Burnett or any other decent pitcher waiting in the bullpen or AAA ready to make a start to replace them. Hughes and IPK regressed (a lot), Razz is actually what he is – a AAAA starter, Igawa was never an option, Giese is a young and slightly better byrd or washbum and was DL’ed for a bit… He has what the FO supplies… and they supplied Raz and Ponson. What’s he going to do? Grow starters out of the ground with miracle gro? Cure Hughes’ and IPK’s ineffectiveness with a smack to the face? And with the Yanks playing the way they had all season long, it’s not like the FO thought this team deserved to get Sabathia or Burnett at the deadline so a lot of things came together in all the wrong ways to bury this team and expose it for what it is. Too old AND too young. Poor defense. No speed. Power hitter lineup. No offense production from the Catcher. For $200 mil, you’d think this team had some better resources, but with most of it buried in useless players like Giambi or aging vets like Jeter, Damon, and Matsui – you can see why this team has no depth. And with the flux of injuries that spate this team, that also got exposed. So, is this all Girardi’s fault? Not really, but he could definitely handle the media better (and probably would if this team were doing what it was supposed to do – win). Casey Stengel could be helming this ship and it’d still be sinking. Girardi’s not totally to blame, but he’s not totally free of it either. It’s just more tenacious because he’s really crappy at handling the media.
Yankee2123 said what I did – except he did it better and in a shorter amount of time.
“2/3 of the time the Yanks are among the best teams in the game”
No, they aren’t. They’ve been a terrible defensive team all year and their offense has been brutal in large stretches. Starting pitching depth ended up being a far bigger problem than people imagined, but this team just wasn’t very good this year. Combination of aging players, undue reliance on rookie pitching, lack of depth, a new manager, and a shift in philosophy as to how to build a roster going forward left us with a team that has played every bit the role of an 85-88 win team all season.
do you wanna know how bad the job cashman did is?
if this is a rebuilding year, let’s see how our future looks vs. the red sox – comparing under 30 years old players.
rotation: (PROVEN starters)
sox – beckett, dice-k, lester (in the wings: masterson, bucholtz + several aaa pitchers)
yanks – wang (joba – still not ready innings-wise. in the wings: hughes? kennedy??? other hopefuls are below aaa)
infield:
sox – pedroia, lowrie, youkilis
yanks – cano ?
outfield:
sox – elsbury, crisp
yanks – cabrera??? gardner???
(and i didn’t even bother comparing to toronto and TB, which makes the picture mucj worse)
cashman has done an awful job undermining the team’s present and FUTURE. facts and numbers don’t lie.
HE MUST GO.
I know that I expected Girardi to be a more aggressive manager than he has been. I think that some of his earlier unconventional moves(starting with relievers against KC and then there was no rain delay) backfired on him and he has been gun shy to try anything different.
GilL—- Cashman had no say in the draft until recently. Most of the Sawx players you identified have been in their system longer than that. There’s no quesiton the Yanks have significantly upgraded the minor league talent; just check the Baseball America system rankings but it’ll be 2010 before the position players begin stepping in.
I disagree with the notion that trying Wright or Igawa wouldn’t help at all. Hell if it just delivers the message that lousy performances have consequences it would have been worthwhile. The bottom of the rotation is 8-23 with an ERA over 6:00! Yet both Ponson and Rasner get a dozen starts?
igawa – believe it or not – is worse than ponson or razz, or both of them put together. He’s a batting practice pitcher – nothing more. Wright is another version of Raz. low 90’s high 80’s fastball. (mostly high 80’s). avg secondary pitchers. He has no plus pitches and avg command. He would not be an upgrade at this point. And given the season’s precarious standings at the moment, giving away starts to proven unreliable starts that are actually no better or worse than ponson and razz (remember, razz was lighting up AAA too – much like Wright is now), makes no sense.
“The bottom of the rotation is 8-23 with an ERA over 6:00! Yet both Ponson and Rasner get a dozen starts?”
Ponson and Rasner have started 32 games combined. The Yankees are 15-17 in those starts, which is not terrible for your #4 and #5 guys (Good teams tend to go around .500 when their 4/5 starters go). Keep in mind that they were basically replacing the Hughes/Kennedy portion of the 2008 Master Plan. The Yankees were 3-13 in games started by those two.
“Ponson and Rasner have started 32 games combined. The Yankees are 15-17 in those starts, which is not terrible for your #4 and #5 guys (Good teams tend to go around .500 when their 4/5 starters go). Keep in mind that they were basically replacing the Hughes/Kennedy portion of the 2008 Master Plan. The Yankees were 3-13 in games started by those two.”
exactly, Fredo. people need to take a step back and take an objective look at the whole picture. you’d take a .500 record from your team on the days that your #4 and 5 pitchers go to the hill.
the numbers arent pretty, but they werent the only problem… and in fact, kept their team in the game most of the games they started.
As an everyday player and vet I would think it is difficult to get up for games when mngmt throws garbage on the mound start after start. As a player I would prefer an unknown quanity to horrible known quantities. Not to mention it may help in making decisions in the next few seasons. Happen to have a good starter in 3a or even 2a give the kid a shot. There are those few in life who respond to challenges and if they don’t no harm done other than maybe disappointment. i want guys who can forget disappointment and continue on in spite of it. Some 19 20 yearold gets shelled in the bigs, so what, now he knows he isn’t nearly as good as he thought he was. Now he knows to take things a bit more serious. Razz at this point in his career has nothing resembling major league starting talent. Next year who knows? I mean Moose was finished right. Guys not knowing they have no chance are much better than guys who believe they have a poor or no chance at all. Getting up for that type of game even for vets is not easy, day after day. The first element in winning is actually believing you will.
Thank you Rover…. there’s a big difference in taking a chance with someone than going with proven garbage. It’s like going back to a restaurant where you had a bad meal. You aren’t gonna order the same thing are you?
How much longer is Wright to be punished for the four HR?
I’m not delusional about those guys… they are all probably journeymen at best… but after a few lousy trips you need to try a different journeyman.
“As an everyday player and vet I would think it is difficult to get up for games when mngmt throws garbage on the mound start after start.”
As I pointed out earlier, the Yankees were 15-17 in games started by Rasner. Let’s suppose for a second that we buy into your rather weak explanation. Perhaps you could explain to us why they are 14-15 in the 29 games started by Andy Pettitte.
The Yankees are either 3rd or 4th in total team defense and fewest errors this year
CLUELESS Joe is a JOKE. I thought we were getting Billy Martin and instead we got Stump Merrill.
*15-17 in games started by Rasner and Ponson.
Rasner and Ponson can’t be allowed to pitch another game this year. Bring up Hughes and someone else (Kennedy or someone else). I’d rather not make the playoffs with our future than our past.
Bucholz isn’t looking particularly good lately, is he? He has been shelled in the majors and is now is AA to get things straightened out.
Yes, the RS have some good prospects but so do the Yankees. The Yankees are behind by a few years, but with the amount of pitching they have trades can fill in a few slots for position players if need be.
We need to start a petition for Chase Wright!!!!
I met him the week after the 4 homeruns against Boston (when he was sent back to Trenton). He looked more determined than ever to get back up. And he deserves another shot. In his defense, those were 4 solo homeruns. If it were one grandslam, it wouldnt even be a thought a year later. Robertson and Marte have each given up 2 grandslams already this year, and we dont even talk about that. So 4 solo shots shouldnt be any different.
Sunny, at least Wright is a different look, less scouting reports, and a lefty. Sometimes that alone gives improvement.
“Rasner and Ponson can’t be allowed to pitch another game this year. Bring up Hughes and someone else (Kennedy or someone else). I’d rather not make the playoffs with our future than our past.”
you arent making the playoffs either way. why not just allow the young arms to continue to work and develop their command and secondary pitches, rather than force them back to the MLB’s when they have earned it and allow them to pitch when their performances at Scranton say they arent ready?
Just because they have had modest succeess DESPITE the lousy pitching of Rasner and Ponson is no justification for sending them out there nor is it a legit argument against making changes.
32 Starts, 8-14 5.71 WHIP 1.63 is horrible in any language
C’Mon Fredo, you’re much smarter than that.
Fredo is right that good teams expect the 4th and 5th starters to end up around .500 – the failure of the ‘top’ of the rotation to provide production has been a more significant failure imo.
This is why adding an ace (just hypothetically a hefty lefty) would make the team better by moving everyone down a slot in the rotation and bumping a scrub.
“Just because they have had modest succeess DESPITE the lousy pitching of Rasner and Ponson is no justification for sending them out there nor is it a legit argument against making changes.”
making changes? sure, i’m all for it. but up until last week, who were you going to pitch in their place? you didnt have anyone.
“32 Starts, 8-14 5.71 WHIP 1.63 is horrible in any language
C’Mon Fredo, you’re much smarter than that.”
And you, 86, are smarter than putting this season on the pitching of Ponson and Rasner. Them needing to pitch was part of the problem, but not nearly the problem the failure of the Kennedy/Hughes plan was. Not nearly the problem the offense has been, who is on pace to score some 200 runs less than last year. Not nearly the problem the weak defense has been.
Bottom line is they are not in this predicament because of Ponson and Rasner.
I have fond memories of the Houston airport. Only place I have ever been called a “punk”, while standing in line to check in, by a big burly guy in a cowboy hat. Have fun in Bush country Pete and don’t stay too long!!!!
It looks like Andy is lined up to pitch the finale. I would think it has to be Andy or Moose. There’s no way Ponson or any kid pitches that game.
Is it possible for Pavano to pitch all three games?
There is plenty of blame to go around for the shortcomings of this team. The back end of rotation, lousy clutch hitting and marginal defense all contributing in their own inept way.
My point is that as poorly as Rasner and Ponson have pitched I can’t understand them getting 32 starts between them. Those are starts that could have perhaps helped develop Hughes and Kennedy or Chase Wright or Kei Igawa or Ross Ohlendorf or Daniel McCutchen. I doubt any of them would have been much worse than 5.71… well, probably Igawa.
If you are going to struggle, struggle with young guys who might get better, not journeyman who have pretty clearly established their below mediocre credentials.
I’m betting Ponson goes 5 shutout innings against the Mariners, earning himself another start which will turn out to be a crushing mistake. He should’ve been gone long ago, but if I took over the team today, I’d let him start that game against the Mariners and then promptly remove him.
“Is it possible for Pavano to pitch all three games?”
He sure is rested enough…
bigjf——I’ll take that bet!
At this point it doesn’t matter, the season is done. Better to just throw Ponson/Rasner out there to get pounded and let the kids learn in the minors. They’re not ready for the bigs yet.
I get to see 1 Yanks game all year and it is Sir Sid on the mound. My brother in law is a huge Mariners fan is going with me so I know we will be across the street at the Pryimid Brewery to pregame.
I really doubt whether Girardi want to win or not,because he let Ponson start on Staturday.Perhaps the lost result of the game can be anticipate.I would rather trying rookie than sending Ponson to mound.
These should be three easy wins. Seattle doesn’t hit, can’t pitch… Hell, they’re downright awful.
cdaidayank-
“I get to see 1 Yanks game all year and it is Sir Sid on the mound.”
My condolences. My only game at the Stadium in its final season was vs the Angels when Andy gave up 9 ER, the Angels had three 3-run homers.
Oh man. Crappy game. Come to think of it, though, only 2 of the 5 games I went to were winning games. I went to Joba’s first start (also Giese’s first game), which was kind of historic. I also went to the first game of the Mets double header when they were clobbered, but then Ponson pitched amazingly at Shea that night.
Jon –
Your point is valid about not “rerushing” Hughes/Kennedy to the majors.
However, my own personal opinion is that it is still probably the best idea to get Hughes into some major league games before the season is over.
I also think it would be wise to just let Chase Wright get a start or two as well; I don’t agree with opinions that “He may destroy his market value” His market value is already established, for the most part. If a team likes Chase Wright, they’ll probably still like him regardless of a few September starts. If a team has no use for Chase Wright, it seems a bit unlikely that a few decent September performances will make them fall in love with him.
So as long as he doesn’t go to an extreme (IE, post a 28.00 ERA in four starts), I just don’t see much downside in giving him a few starts…and there is absolutely no upside to the future of the Yankees in throwing Ponson out there.—-
Yes, this team has issues that go well beyond whether or not Sidney Ponson pitches. But I don’t think that’s the point. The point is getting some of your younger talent some playing time in what should be a relatively stress-free environment.
Whether or not Gardner looks terrible vs. Scott Kazmir is also not really the point; burying him on the bench accomplishes nothing. Putting him out there to play accomplishes whether or not they feel he can be a part of the center field picture next year. At this point, they have zero idea. If they would have kept him in the lineup consistently, perhaps they’d have at least SOME idea by now..with another 90 or so plate appearances to make a further evaluation.
I like that Coke is getting some innings, along with Aceves. So, in some regards, I think they are doing some good things with this last month of the season; in other regards, I have to question them a bit.
morrow vs. yanks tonight at safeco should be awesome! hopefully the yanks can win! go a-rod!
I will be at the game tonight, actually all three this weekend. I’ve only ever made it to two Yanks games and they lost in Montreal in one and at home against KC in the other (on my birthday no less). I hope I’m not a bad luck charm.
As someone else stated I’m also excited to see Morrow pitch. He was stretched out the right way (in the minors) and can deal. I don’t think he has the secondary pitches that Joba does but in the bullpen he was throwing with similar velocity and location.
I know this isn’t 1997 Pettitte pitching, but I’m still stoked to see him pitch.
Gardner was starting to hit (5 hits in 2 games) when Matsui came back. They should had kept him in the lineup, sitting for 2 weeks & then having to face a tough lefty like Kazmir is not a good barometer to judge him on. Besides at this point, Matsui has become a slash hitter with little power. That works for Ichiro who has speed, but not when you have 2 bad knees. Matsui needs to be traded this off-season. Hopefully they can find someone who wants him AND somewhere he is willing to go.(Since he has a no-trade clause).
cdaidayank-
“I get to see 1 Yanks game all year and it is Sir Sid on the mound.â€
My condolences. My only game at the Stadium in its final season was vs the Angels when Andy gave up 9 ER, the Angels had three 3-run homers.
Thanks Jon that is why we are going for a lengthy pregame at the brewery
So awesome to have the Yanks in town this weekend! I miss my former season tickets from Section 37…I shoulda never moved! GO YANKEES!! Let’s SWEEP!
86w183—I guess I won that bet…