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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

The Sunday Links

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 07, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees cut a game off Boston’s lead as they came back to beat the Mariners.

The two moves the Yankees made at the deadline didn’t work out as hoped.

The Sunday Baseball Beat focuses on the Rays and their unexpected success.





36 Responses to “The Sunday Links”

  1. North September 7th, 2008 at 5:35 am

    It’s actually funny.. Joe Girardi vs. Joe Torre. Girardis team is playing in the best division in baseball and has a winning record with 10 games over .500.

    Joe Torre’s Dodgers are playing .500 ball and they are in a pennant race.

  2. crawdaddie September 7th, 2008 at 7:45 am

    I think you’ve been unfair saying acquiring Marte hasn’t worked out. He struggled when Girardi overused him and caused a sore elbow like you mentioned, but he’s been very effective since coming back from that barking elbow.

  3. beefeater September 7th, 2008 at 8:52 am

    There is no way you can say the Farnsworth trade for Pudge was a bad move. There is no way Farnsworth should have been on the team. He had a few decent outings and he was still giving up homers, walks, and it was clear that Girardi was shoving him down our throats. At the begininning of the season Girardi was spouting how he`d get Farnsworth right, and he tried his best to prove that.
    Pudge is an experienced catcher who will eventually hit. You will all wish you had him back next year when it comes out that Posada cannot throw.
    Abreu, is clearly the teams MVP this year

  4. pete's typewriter September 7th, 2008 at 9:17 am

    1game down , 8 to go!!!!

    Only 8 games back in the loss column now!

  5. Rishi September 7th, 2008 at 9:18 am

    Carl Pavano’s sob story:

  6. Yankee Trader September 7th, 2008 at 9:25 am

    Marte as a situational lefty with a 6M club option a raise of almost 3.4M seems excessive. If he wants to stay pay his $250,000 buyout and negotiate an incentive laden 2 year contract. Phil Coke has shown some potential to be our lefty out of the bullpen next year.

    Like Nady and recall that he was 2nd in RF assists, behind Markakis, at the time of the trade.

    Abreu has been our positional MVP, but soon to be 35, with declining defensive skills and OBP, at 16M he was overpaid, and as I would like to see a younger athletic outfield, he should be offered arbitration with the likelihood he’ll want a 3 year contract, which would be foolish to do.

    Pudge for Farnsworth has been a wash. Pudge is not the reason our starters can barely go 4-5 innings, overtaxing our once dominant bullpen. He will not be back, even with the uncertainty of Posada’s arm, although I suspect the Yankees will have a backup plan in place.

    Our 1st goal in the offseason should be to sign 2 quality starting FA pitchers, plus offer a one year contract to Mussina. That would enable us to trade some of our minor league pitching for young position players.

    Unfortunately the list of quality FA’s and possible FA’s without some concerns about health[mind and body] is limited to Sabathia. Others available, and possibly available if options not picked up include Burnett, Dempster,Perez[Oliver],Sheets, Lackey, Penny. Lackey’s 9M option would most certainly be picked up.Lowe’s another one but is older.

    Do not want to see another long term contract to a position player, so therefore feel Teixeira would be a bad choice fot 7 years as we have people in the minors, like Montero who might be our 1st baseman in 3 years.

  7. RER - 98 September 7th, 2008 at 9:30 am


    . October/November – Free agent filing period, first 15 days after the World Series ends.

    . November 3-6 – General manager’s meetings, Dana Point, California.

    . December 1 – Last day for teams to offer salary arbitration to their former players who became free agents.

    . December 7 – Last day for free agents offered salary arbitration to accept the offers.

    . December 8-11 – Winter meetings in Las Vegas.

    . December 12 – Last day for teams to offer 2009 contracts to unsigned players.

    . January 5-15 – Salary arbitration filing.

    . January 19 or 20 – Exchange of salary arbitration figures.

    . February 1-21 – Salary arbitration hearings, Phoenix.

    . February 20 – Voluntary reporting date for pitchers, catchers and injured players.

    . February 25 – Voluntary reporting date for position players.

    . March 5 – Mandatory reporting date for all players.

    . March 2-11 – Teams may renew contracts for unsigned players.

    . March 18 – Last day to place a player on unconditional release waivers and pay 30 days termination pay instead of 45 days.

    . April 1 – Last day to request unconditional release waivers on a player without having to pay his full salary.

    . April 5 – Opening day, active rosters reduced to 25 players.

  8. beefeater September 7th, 2008 at 10:09 am

    Great post Yankee trader, I agree. I think they should keep Pudge as the insurance policy. I think his experience is vital. I cannot see Posada coming back at his age and being able to throw well enough. I see the only option is for Posada to go to 1B and DH. I would like to keep Abreu and yes, not for three years.
    I for dont think the OF (except for Melky) was an issue. Damon had a great season, so did Abreu, and Matsui was great until he was injured. Melky, and Gardner have been busts. I also am not completely sold on Nady. I think he is solid and above average hitter and he`ll be fine, but he is not a top 10 player.
    I think the Starting pitching needs to be addressed. Not sure if you saw Cashmans interview with Kim Jones last night, Cashman basically said that he “thought” Hughes and Kennedy would have been perfect 4 and 5 starters, then he said he was wrong, and that they are now in the “pool” with others for that spot.
    I loved him saying that, its means they are ready to move on to making it right

  9. Rebecca--Optimist Prime September 7th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    I don’t think the Marte/Nady trade was a bad idea. Nady has been excellent and Marte much better since he’s rested his arm, and the cost to the Yankees has been minimal.

  10. hobbie September 7th, 2008 at 10:53 am

    the Stadium’s farewell to its fans

    When I am just a faded memory,
    and my dimensions shift in your mind’s eye-
    think back upon the nights you spent at me
    around a field of green beneath the sky.

    For you were here the night back in 04’
    The night that Jeter dove into my stands
    When Yanks and Red Sox played a thirteenth Frame
    he caught the ball but had to leave the game.

    And you were here when A-Rod hit three bombs
    Against the ex- cy young, Barto Colon-
    you stood expectant in my left field stands
    To catch the fourth if ever it should land..

    Who can forget old Freddy and his pan-
    The “Ancient Mariner” of Yankee fans
    He wanders through my aisles just like a vendor-
    He bangs the drum more slowly this September.

    I’ve been the field where Ruth and Mantle played-
    where DiMaggio stood out at center stage.
    I’ve been the home plate where the luckiest man
    bowed out before his disbelieving fans.

    I’ve played host often to a Series game
    My champions have added to my fame.
    The shadows long upon my infield face
    As days grew short and cool at Autumn’s pace.

    I was the place George Herman lay in state
    When he lost his fight for life in 48’
    Thousands of you wandered past his bier
    ( the only one he didn’t want, I hear).

    But now my time has come, they say I’m through
    And I think hard what Gehrig had to do-
    He passed on the baton from failing hands
    So I too say my farewell to the fans.

  11. Pete September 7th, 2008 at 11:01 am

    I agree with crawdaddie — Marte’s had his rough spots but ultimately he’s been great when used correctly. Girardi just has to figure that part out a little better, as he did with Farnsworth.

  12. jennifer- I got your back Girardi September 7th, 2008 at 11:39 am

    You know what is funny. I am to recall some people saying that Marte is more than a lefty specialist. That he can be used for more than one inning. He did it with the Pirates. Look at his innings and pc.

  13. george September 7th, 2008 at 11:47 am

    great jeter quote from last nite: “We have 20 games. Last I checked, we weren’t 21 games out.”

  14. bruce September 7th, 2008 at 11:51 am

    trade hughes,ajax and then some for a good young center fielder,someone 24-26 yrs old who will lock down the position for a while,maybe kemp,mclouth.

    trade cano,kennedy and whatever else it takes for a joba like pitcher,someone like volquez or billingsley.

    sign moose to a one yr as the 4th starter.

    sign sabathia,consider perez.

    trade damon/matsui combined with prospects for a corner outfielder or two,ethier,etc…

    trade prospects for a first baseman,someone young like fielder,votto.

    the yankees need a lot of rebuilding and if they use hughes,kennedy,ajax and anybody else they should be able to pull it off.

    they need to get young on the verge or players that had at least one very good year in the bigs someone like kemp,volquez,votto,bruce,fielder,mclouth,billingsley.

    i understand that hughes alone might not land a great center fielder and cano alone won’t land a great young pitcher but if they combine them with a great prospect or two it might happen.make offers they can’t refuse like cano,kennedy,betances and another prospect for volquez.

    the yankees have tons of pitchers that need to be packaged and as long as a good young player is being recieved it should be done.

    as long as the right players are being brought in and they are young the yankees won’t need most of the players in the minors and it will give them time to re-draft players.

  15. Jeff September 7th, 2008 at 11:54 am

    Nady is good and all, but I don’t like his style of play. The other Yankees like Giambi and Abreu take pitches and work counts. Nady swings at every pitch. Everyone is blaming A-rod for grounding into DPs, but Nady always goes under the radar for hitting in the clutch. Overall, I think he is good, I just wish he would wait on certain pitches. Marte was a good acquisition. As crazy as this sounds, the Yanks bullpen started having problems when Farnsworth was traded. I’m not saying that he was the reason why it was good for a while. But I don’t think Pudge is any better than Molina. He is always really late on his swings. I remember one game against the Twins in which he had 3 down the middle pitches that he fouled off. I get that Farnsworth was only playing well in the first half and Cashman wanted to shop him while his value was high. But guys in the bullpen are usually all friends and remain distant from the position players in the dugout. Maybe not having Farnsworth around may have caused the pen to regress to a Torre-Era state.

  16. Rebecca--Optimist Prime September 7th, 2008 at 11:58 am

    AJax is probably #1 on the ‘do not trade’ list.

  17. Kill-Schill(ing) September 7th, 2008 at 11:58 am

    I agree about the Marte-Nady trade, Pete. Cashman’s irrational fixation with Marte drove the trade.

    And as I argued at the time, the Yankees didn’t need Marte.

    The bullpen was and is the strength of the team– Farnsworth and Moeller would have done just fine– and for what the Yankees surrendered in talent, I thought they should have tried to acquire Bay, not Nady.

    Bay is a legitimate replacement for Abreu’s bat, Nady is not.

    Go look at the Nady’s career numbers. At best, he’s a good six hitter in a lineup where the 1-5 hitter have high OBAs. That is, he’s best suited for the role Mike Lowell plays in Boston’s lineup.

    In the Yankees lineup, he’s not a good enough hitter for either the 3 or 5th holes because he doesn’t protect A-Rod. He’s just not a patient enough hitter to hit before him. Nady doesn’t see enough pitches, 3.8 P/PA nor walk enough. And Nady doesn’t hit the breaking ball well enough to hit behind A-Rod– something incidentally which makes him a less effective hitter in the AL overall.

    Since Nady has displayed a weakness for pitches out of the zone and tendency to miss the breaking balls, AL pitchers have thrown him a steady diet of each. He hasn’t adjusted as yet. Maybe, he will; maybe he won’t. With an already deficient lineup entering next year, the Yankees can’t afford the risk.

    If Abreu will accept a 2-year contract from the Yankees, the Yankees should tender him one. Today in the News, Johnny Damon said he’s amenable to playing 1B or CF next year, whichever the Yankees ask of him.

    Still, it wouldn’t surprise me if Cashman is so enamored of his work he already has overestimated Nady’s value.

  18. bruce September 7th, 2008 at 11:59 am

    dream rotation is sabathia,wang,volquez/billingsley,mussina,joba.

  19. Kill-Schill(ing) September 7th, 2008 at 11:59 am

    I agree Jeff, very discerning observation about Nady’s plate discipline. That is, we agree.

  20. george September 7th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    the only trade mistake i think the 2008 Yanks made is the one they didn’t make – passing on Byrd & letting the Bosox get him in the waivers period.

  21. A.B.K September 7th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    Kei Igawa was named the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Yankees (Triple-A) Pitcher of the Year before Yesterday’s game when he pitched seven strong innings to put the Yankees (Triple-A) on the verge of advancing to the championship round of the Governors’ Cup playoffs.

  22. bruce September 7th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    if we use hughes and others to land a good young center fielder and cano and others to land a pitcher,prospects to land corner outfielders and a first baseman then we won’t need ajax.

    you know for the most part what you are getting with kemp and mclouth,that is not the case with ajax.

    i would love to keep ajax,montero,brackman but you have to give up to get and a solid plan is needed to bring in the right pieces,good young players.

    if they keep nady only and get a center fielder only a corner outfielder is needed to complete the outfield rebuilding.

  23. Jeff September 7th, 2008 at 12:07 pm


    The problem with what you are suggesting is that you want a completely new team and you want something that will never be achieved because you are offering too much for what you want. trading Hughes would be a bad move. The guy is the number 1 pitching prospect for a reason. The reason why he pitched poorly is because he was injured. If you want to see how he played when he was healthy, refer to his No hitter against the Rangers and his relief appearances against Cleveland in the Playoffs.

    Getting rid of Matsui and Damon is an awful move. Both of these players are amazing offensive players. This year was not an outlier for Damon because he has been injured for a lot of his time on the Yanks. This season is more reminiscent of how he was as a Red Sock. Right now, Matsui is injured, however, when he is healthy next season, he will go back to his torrid hitting. The only way I would trade Matsui is if the Yanks got a good young pitcher in return. The only problem with Damon is that he has no arm. He should be a DH/CF.

    These guys you listed: kemp,volquez,votto,bruce,fielder,mclouth,billingsley.

    You realize what you would need to give up to get them. This is why, no offense, you wouldn’t be GM. All of these guys have played well, thus their stock is high. Giving up Cano (one of the top offensive 2nd basemen) and Kennedy (a good pitching prospect) for one of these guys is ridiculous. Bruce, Votto, Mclouth would never be traded. Why would you want Prince Fielder anyway? All he can do is hit for power. He is like David Ortiz or Ryan Howard. Those kind of guys wouldn’t fit into the Yankee style of play unless we were to get one of them to replace Giambi.

    In general, proven pitching like Billingsley and Volquez are extremely hard to come by. Why do you think everyone was salivating over the Dan Haren and Johan Santana deals of the offseason. Because these guys are ace pitchers who are still in their prime.

  24. Chris September 7th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    “the only trade mistake i think the 2008 Yanks made is the one they didn’t make – passing on Byrd & letting the Bosox get him in the waivers period.”

    You do realize, if the Yankees got him, he’d probably be 1 – 3 for us right now? He’s allowed 4 runs, 4 runs, 2 runs and 4 runs, in his four starts on the Sox. The Yankees about 60% of the time, don’t score more than 4 runs, so it’s likely those would have all been losses for us. It wasn’t a mistake to not get Byrd. Pitching hasn’t exactly been our weakness this year. It’s the inconsistent lineup. If our hitters did what they’re supposed to do, pitching Ponson and Rasner wouldn’t matter because they’d get run support, so letting up 5 runs, or 4 runs, wouldn’t matter.

  25. Jeff September 7th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    Byrd sucks. The Red Sox, believe it or not, made some dumb moves at this deadline as well as some smart ones. I think Jason Bay was a great move. They got rid of Manny when his stock was high and you know he will be the next Nomar or Randy Winn. The NL West is like the doldrums, it’s the perfect place to end your career and be forgotten about. Jason Bay is only 26 and will only get better.

    The Red Sox also got Mark Kotsay, who is very good. The problem is that now they are starting to run into the same problems as the Yanks. Too many outfielders. They already have Crisp, Drew, Ellsbury, Bay. I assume they will get rid of one of them. Crisp is awful.

    And Bruce, what you are forgetting is that the Yanks have plenty of outfielders. In addition to Nady, Matsui, Damon, Melky, and Abreu, we have Brett Gardner. If your logic about Gardner is consistent with your other logic, then you want to get rid of him as well. I think Gardner is the next Damon, except with more speed and a better arm. Why would you want to trade him? I think if you want to trade someone, trade Melky. Melky never really hits for average and is certainly expendable. I think Gardner is the logical choice to stay. Having 4 outfielders is fine because one of them can alternate at the DH position and if one gets injured then you have a back up.

    The other issue you addressed involving a first baseman will be key for next season. If we could get Teixeira, that would be great. Unfortunately, I think the Angels will re-sign him since he is such a great asset. Excellent defensively and offensively. Giambi will most likely go unless he re-signs for a smaller, shorter term contract.

    This is my prediction for next year’s starting 5.

    Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Joba

    Pettitte and Mussina will most likely get short term incentive based contracts since both want to play in the new Yankee Stadium. Steinbrenner will definitely pursue Sabathia heavily. And Joba will be in our starting five without a doubt. Hughes and Kennedy may be worked in there, depending on how Spring Training goes and everything else.

  26. raymagnetic September 7th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    “Jason Bay is only 26 and will only get better.”

    Ummmm, no he isn’t.

  27. Chris September 7th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    Isn’t Jason Bay turning 30 in like 2 weeks?

  28. jonathan cl. September 7th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    Bay will be 30 this month.

  29. Buddy Biancalana September 7th, 2008 at 12:31 pm


    You think Manny will become the next Randy Winn or Nomar. What are you smoking? You may hate Manny, but plain & simple, he is a great hitter.

  30. bigjf September 7th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    If we’re going to have a hindsight on the trades this early, Marte and Nady was still a steal. Karstens stinks, he and Rasner are interchangeable parts. Tabata might turn out to be really good, but it sure seemed like he wasn’t going to do it here, the pressure was getting to him. McCutchen makes it a decent deal for the Pirates, who were starved for starting pitching, but I doubt he’s anything special.

    Pudge for Farnsworth didn’t really work out for either team, but it was still a move that wasn’t bad at the time. It didn’t work out, I wouldn’t bring Pudge back, but he was hitting at a decent clip, despite doing NOTHING with the Yanks. And it seems a little unfair how quickly Mussina and Pettitte dismissed using Pudge. Is he that bad, or are they just that lazy? Pudge still looks good behind the plate but it’s tough to tell whether he calls a good game because he works with the scrap heap of replacement level pitchers. I have to assume he’s still good back there, but his bat is done as far as I’m concerned. I’d bring him back only if Posada can’t catch.

  31. LATE REPORT .... September 7th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    Manny Ramirez has decided on a gender change in mid November and in 2009 will be known to his new teammates as ” Tranny ” Ramirez.

  32. Jeff September 7th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    OK. Bay will be turning 30. I must have confused him with some other player. I actually do not hate Manny. However, he is not an athlete by any means. He does not contribute to the defensive aspect of the game. Theo Epstein was smart for making the trade though. Bay may not be as good of a hitter as Manny currently is, but he is still very good. He can play the outfield well. Being 30 in MLB is the equivalent of being middle aged. So at least the Red Sox will get some good years out of him. If they kept Manny, they would get maybe 1-2 more years out of him. Manny is old and his abilities will not be refined through age.

    And Buddy, I do think he will become the next Randy Winn or Nomar. The truth is, the NL West is where you go to end your career. The whole Dodgers team is full of guys like that. Jeff Kent, Juan Pierre, and Andruw Jones now. It’s so laid back there and there is so little competition that you just wither away into oblivion. Are Nomar and Randy Winn not good players? They are still good, but you don’t hear anything about them

  33. Neil September 7th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    Next Season:
    SP Sabathia
    SP Wang
    SP Mussina/Lowe
    SP Pettite

    Joba needs to start in the rotation and then move to the pen mid-season. At that point Hughes should be ready to takeover his spot. If not one of Kennedy, Aceves, McAllistor, Kontos, Hacker might be ready.

    CP Rivera
    SU Melancoln
    MRP Iwase (Japanese LHRP)
    MRP Rameriz/ Patterson/Robertson/Albaladejo/ect.
    MRP Veras/Patterson/Robertson/Albaladejo/ect.
    MRP Coke
    LRP Geise

    SS Furcal
    LF Jeter
    1B Damon
    3B Rodriguez
    DH Matsui
    RF Nady
    2B Cano
    -C Posada
    CF Gardner

    -C Molina
    CF Melky
    IF Felepe Lopez
    1B Rich Aurilia

    LF Damon
    SS Jeter
    1B Matsui
    3B Rodriguez
    DH Giles
    RF Nady
    2B Cano
    -C Posada
    CF Gardner

    -C Molina
    CF Melky
    IF Felepe Lopez
    1B Juan Miranda

    Offer Arb. to Pudge(get sup. rd pick), Marte(1st +sup rd), Abreu(1st + sup rd.), (Giambi sup rd), Mussina(if he leaves 1st + sup rd.)

    Lose 1st rd pick for CC, and possibly 2nd rd for Furcal.

    We could have 3-4 1st rd picks (including this yrs), and 4-5 sup. rd. picks for next yrs draft.

  34. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut September 7th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    I think the adjustments to make during the season is why Pudge wasn’t wanted by Pettitte and Mussina. It takes a while to get used to a pitcher, there simply isn’t the time during higher pressure games to do that.

    I don’t really see any problem with Nady. He needs to work on some plate discipline, but that will come if he is well coached. So what if he is a number 6 hitter?

    I think the Yankees will trade off some pitchers in the off season to get some position players, even if its for the farm system. Too many arms and not enough places for them to go. Rather than losing them to rule 5, trade them.

    As far as the two pre-deadline trades go, they weren’t horrible, but as was posted here various times, they needed a SP. Cashman didn’t deliver on that so the other ones didn’t really matter. I understand the Washbum deal was stupid, very little if any upgrade and a salary dump, plus they wanted too much for him in players.

    Byrd wouldn’t have done much. I don’t think he would have pushed the Yankees any closer in the wins column, so why bother? Kotsay would have been one to look at though.

    I am not really sold on Bay being all that great a trade for the Red Sox. He can hit, but they gave up a lot to get him. Manny will be missed in their lineup, despite the troll hitting so well right now.

    I hope the Yankees have had enough with the poor fielding 1st base stuff. Damon probably makes the most sense to shift to that position, as he is still athletic enough. Matsui is better suited to the OF, but this year with his knee problem he couldn’t do it. Posada at first isn’t a good move, but who knows if he will still be able to throw well enough. That is the biggest question that won’t be answered till next season. You can’t build your team around that problem though.

    I don’t think Matsui or Damon should be traded. Their bats missing and being replaced by poor hitters hurt the offense this year.

  35. Drive 4-5 September 7th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    Just read the Carl Pavano article in the Times.

    Carl never mentions the bruised buttocks injury or how he violated his contract by not reporting the rib injury he sustained in the Florida car crash.

    The car accident occured while he was supposedly rehabbing.Not only did he not inform the team, he actually said he “”didn’t feel he needed to address anything” with his teammates.

    It was nice of Kempler to let Pavano give his version and vent at the Yankees. He also should have filled in the blanks.

  36. Dan L in nj September 7th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    Neil that is a terrible team!

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