Pitching matchups for the Rays series
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 11, 2008 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Advertisement
Sponsored by:
Search
Advertisement
Follow
Mobile
Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.
LoHud TV
More Videos
Advertisement
Place an ad
Call (914) 694-3581
Monthly Archives
- February 2012
- January 2012
- December 2011
- November 2011
- October 2011
- September 2011
- August 2011
- July 2011
- June 2011
- May 2011
- April 2011
- March 2011
- February 2011
- January 2011
- December 2010
- November 2010
- October 2010
- September 2010
- August 2010
- July 2010
- June 2010
- May 2010
- April 2010
- March 2010
- February 2010
- January 2010
- December 2009
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
- July 2009
- June 2009
- May 2009
- April 2009
- March 2009
- January 2007 - Part 1
- December 2006
- November 2006
- October 2006
- September 2006
- August 2006
- July 2006
- June 2006
- May 2006
- April 2006
- March 2006
- February 2006
Great, now I can post this on my Sommer Frieze blog and take credit for something I didn’t write.
I hope they can win Saturday for Moose.
Yes win Saturday for Moose, lose the other 2 and keep the redsox in 2nd with a frist round meeting in anaheim — lets go rays
The Yankees really are a bunch of gutless wonders. Look at Houston, they were in last place, and now they’re 4 out of the wildcard and not giving up. The Yankees haven’t been hungry to win since 2001.
Does anyone really need to see Sir Sidney again? Win or lose another start by him is useless.
I guess since the farm clubs are in playoffs there is no other way to go, but it is frustrating to face nonetheless.
When do we start seeing a lot more of Gardner and Ransom. I would imagine there would be some call-ups after the AAA and AA playoffs are done. (At least some Yankee teams show fight and are in contention). But, it would be nice to give some of these guys a taste and to see what we have. Now Sept. is not the best time to evaluate talent, but we can at least see if guys like Ransom, Gardner, Miranda, Duncan, Duncan, Christian, Carson and some of the pitchers can be helpful pieces next year. Outside of Miranda, I don’t see anyone on this list as being a game changer, but perhaps some bench and role players.
“Ransom, Gardner, Miranda, Duncan, Duncan, Christian, Carson and some of the pitchers can be helpful pieces next year”
Some of those “pieces” were being counted on to be “helpful” this year because of how they performed last September. Let the guys who have been in NY just play it out and let the minor leaguers win or lose jobs in spring training.
Pat – I don’t think it is that simple. 40 man roster spots will be extremely tight and you have got to assess some of these players sooner rather than later. I think this may have been a tiny part of the reason why Garcia pitched for Trenton last night.
We should all hope that the Yankees win about 4 more games the rest of the way. Anybody know what the Yankees magic number is for a bottom 15 spot?
As Briantrust,I also hope they can win for Moose
Think I saw this morning that Sheilds and Garza were flip flopped and Sheilds will go Saturuday.
“The Yankees really are a bunch of gutless wonders. Look at Houston, they were in last place, and now they’re 4 out of the wildcard and not giving up. The Yankees haven’t been hungry to win since 2001.”
This is exactly what I think! I think some of this falls at the feet of Jeter. He is the Captain and over the last 8 years hasn’t got it done(good player bad leader). He always gets a pass but he shouldn’t and hopefully fans will start to get on him.
“We should all hope that the Yankees win about 4 more games the rest of the way. Anybody know what the Yankees magic number is for a bottom 15 spot?”
They stand at 13 now. 2 ahead of the Dodgers in the AILC, 3 ahead of the Marlins, 4 ahead of the Tribe and 5 ahead of the Snakes.
“They stand at 13 now. 2 ahead of the Dodgers in the AILC, 3 ahead of the Marlins, 4 ahead of the Tribe and 5 ahead of the Snakes.”
They have to be passed by THREE of these teams to get pick protection.
Shields > Sheilds
Thanks Fredo.
Jason,
Most of the guys you mention for September call-ups have been here at one time or another during the season. I would venture to say that at the time they were called up it was more valuable to them than it would be to be called up now.
Might as well let big guys finish their own season out. Who knows? Maybe they have one last reserve of oomph to at least give the fans a good final homestand.
I’mgoing to Saturday’s game, last game I have tickets for this year. I hope Moose gets his 18th.
It will be strange going to the last game – for me – before Fall officially starts.
I thought the season was over.
Good luck to Moose. Like the team he’s running out of time in his quest. He’s still done very well. As far as I know, there aren’t any 20 game winners yet, no?
Of more interest to me is, will Jeter end up at the top of the hits at Yankee stadium chart? Like a good Captain should, he deflects attention away from his own personal accomplishments. Of which, there have been plenty for him.
Best of luck to them both.
As sad as closing the book on this chapter in Yankee history may be, I’m sure everyone associated with the Yankees is looking forward to starting a new chapter.
Well, there is a little bit of a difference with talent evaluation this September as opposed to others:
You can actually throw these guys out there vs. teams that still care.
The Rays still care. The 4-game series for the White Sox is HUGE for the White Sox. The Blue Jays probably do want to finish ahead of the Yankees and will play regulars in that series.
Regardless, I don’t even know where the “September doesn’t matter in terms of evaulation” stuff started, anyway. Yes, there are instances where teams are fielding nobody lineups or throwing a wet-behind-the-ears rookie. But it’s not like this happens in EVERY game. Plus, there is something to be said for getting players a taste of what it is like to play in the big leagues.
“As far as I know, there aren’t any 20 game winners yet, no?”
None ‘cept for the 21-2 Cliff Lee.
What is it exactly that people want “The Captain” to do? Yell and scream? Topple a watercooler? Throw his teammates under the bus?
Jeter has been able to be the player he is partly because of his demeanor. He is steady and consistent. He always gives 100%.
No one has any idea whatsoever what he does in the privacy of the clubhouse, what he says or who he says it to. And I’ve never heard any of his teammates say anything but that he is an excellent leader, one that leads by example, and no one has ever seemed displeased with that.
Has he had a great season? No, but he hasn’t stopped playing hard. That’s what the younger players, and perhaps some of the vets, should be seeing. You give 100% win or lose.
I don’t know – maybe he should get on a horse, blow a trumpet and yell “charge!” — would that do it?
mel -
Do you recall how many hits Jeter needs to break that “most hits by a Yankee at the Stadium” record?
There’s no pleasure in seeing the Yankees lose and it would be great to see Mike Mussina get what he deserves for pitching his heart out this year.
At the same time, giving any help to Boston is completely out of the question. Poetic justice is seeing Boston squirm.
Let the kids stay and enjoy their postseason regardless of the results.
I’d like to see Hughes up, though.
They could let the AA & AAA players come up to watch the last game in Yankee Stadium.
Who’da a thought that Kei Igawa would be pitching the clinching championship game for the Yankees? Best of luck to them. Per Jennings blog, in Hughes’s mind he’ll pitch the Brickyard Showdown if Scranton sweeps. I think it’s kind of cool. Sudden death game for AAA supremacy. That’s kind of like the AL and NL playing a one game World Series.
Just looked it up – Gherig has 1269 hits at the Stadium, Jeter has 1252. 17 needed to tie, 18 to break the record. Derek has 10 games to do it.
Doreen,
I want to say ’9′, but I’m sure somebody else will know the exact answer.
All those defenders better stand like statues and let the ball make it out of the infield. The Captain has been more than gracious over the years giving others hits and chatting it up out at second.
Doreen,
That many? Yikes. Like I said, this needs to be a team effort by the Yankees, opponents, and the official scorer.
“17 needed to tie, 18 to break the record. Derek has 10 games to do it.”
Wow. Didn’t know it was that many. Some tough pitching coming up with the Rays and White Sox. He could really get fat on the O’s staff though.
Doreen you sure about that? I recall during the last homestand them saying he needed to maintain a hit-a-game pace to do it…. myabe I heard wrong, I could have already been drowning my sorrows
Doreen, do you have the link? I swear I thought it was single digits.
Sorry -
I went to Wikipedia. Should have known. It is 9, per Yankees website, which I found in a story not in the stat charts. Much better odds for 9 than 18.
Someone really needs to update Wikipedia.
SO, SO, sorry.
Give them ‘a taste’?!?!
Of despondency, I suppose …
Please.
Doreen,
And THAT’s why I don’t let my kids use Wikipedia as a source.
Thanks for the chuckle.
So are we all on the Twins bandwagon? (as well as our own!)
Note to self — always cross-check, double-check and never rely on Wikipedia.
Strange that I have to remind myself, because that’s what I tell my daughter all the time!
The perfect thing for Jeter to do would be to tie the record in the first inning of the last game at the Stadium and then sit.
Ponson vs. TAM
Mussina vs. TAM
Pavano vs. TAM
Aceves vs. CWS
Pettitte vs. CWS
Ponson vs. CWS
Mussina vs. CWS
Pavano vs. BAL
Aceves vs. BAL
…. that means Andy will be lined up to start the final game in YS on Sunday night.
If it’s 9, he’s got a better than 85% chance of getting it done. A hit a game for a guy who has averaged 1.27 hits per game throughout his illustrious career is more than doable.
TK,
That’s right, we’ll see if Jeter really doesn’t care about those things. Instead of win, lose, or draw, it’ll be win, win, win for him.
Minnesota or Toronto?
I’d be okay with Toronto, too. I know they’re in our division, but if they can come out of nowhere to get the RS out of there, I’d be okay with that.
Well, I don’t know about that – Jeter sitting after tying it. It goes against the grain of trying to do your best all the time. Didn’t Ted Williams still play even though making an out would have dropped him below .400? (Or am I making that up?
)
Besides which, I think Jeter does care about those things. I think he just defers reflection until after the season, after the job at hand is done. He does send the mementos home to mom & dad, after all.
If it’s a choice, gotta go Minny.
This division is tough and I prefer that the O’s, Jays, Rays, and Sox all revert to their proper place in the very near future.
Doreen, I’m like Brandon with a bone. I can’t let go of the idea of Burnett pitching for the Yankees. It’s irrational, but can you imagine if he’s maturing and peaking at the right time? Of course we’ll have to order tons of bubble wrap for AJ, Joba, and Hughes. But that’s doable. “Yankee Stadium sponsored by 3M”.
If Aceves continues to pitch well, don’t the Yanks need to strongly consider him for the rotation next year?
Andy sounds like he wants to come back.
Moose will probably want to come back.
Wang will be healthy.
Joba will probably start the season in the bullpen due to his innings cap(?)
So that leaves two spots for either Aceves, Hughes and maybe a FA pickup (CC?).
I’m not counting on Kennedy and figure Ponson and Rasner have pitched their way off the team.
Anyone think this scenario is unreasonable?
Doreen –
It was a little tongue in cheek sarcasm from me – although I think that centering frustration on the Captain for an off year by the team this year misses the point.
I think you are right about Ted Williams – and if you aren’t? We can put it in Wikipedia and people will believe it by sundown
“It’s irrational, but can you imagine if he’s maturing and peaking at the right time? ”
For him or for the Yanks? I think he has CYS, Contract Year Syndrome.
Plus with that era and whip, someone out there knows how to hit him.
HERE COME THE RAYS
beware
“I’d be okay with Toronto, too. I know they’re in our division, but if they can come out of nowhere to get the RS out of there, I’d be okay with that.”
I think last night’s loss to the White Sox killed any remote shot Toronto had. Bad time for Halladay to get cuffed around. Now they have to go to Boston and throw 2 minor leaguers, Burnett on 3 days rest, and Litsch.
Twins still have a fair shot though.
Lets see what they do this weekend. I suspect we
Lets see what they do this weekend. I suspect we
Lets see what they do this weekend. I suspect we
Yanksrule,
Who knows what the team will do. I do think they should start Joba.
Wang
AJ
Joba
Moose
Pettitte
Then when Joba transitions to the pen, Hughes, Aceves, or best AAA pitcher would slot in. Or you pick up a pitcher if teams are trying to do something like Cleveland did with CC.
If you can get CC, great. Otherwise the world keeps spinning.
People don’t want to bring back Andy, but as you can see you’re either depending on the AAA guys or you got to lock in to some longer contracts.
It’s not that easy to field 5 good pitchers. Very few teams can.
black yankee,
Do you have a stuttering problem? Speech therapy can do wonders.
“Didn’t Ted Williams still play even though making an out would have dropped him below .400? (Or am I making that up? )”
Williams went 6 for 8 in a doubleheader to get to .406 that year. On the other end of the spectrum, Wade Boggs sat out a series against the Yankees in October 1986 to avoid a chance of losing a batting title to Mattingly.
sorry, at work. I suspect they`ll win one game in the series again. I just cannot believe how some very low level pitchers have shut down this offense. Its safe to say they are out of it, and I guess I`m old school, and what I might do is take a few of these guys out.
If a polished hitter like AROD continues to strike out on bad pitches in the dirt, or if he looks perplexed at the plate after a AAAA pitcher gets him out I`d sit him.
I would do it with all of them if need be. The games mean nothing now, and I would embarrass them like they embarrassed the manager and the organization. All that payroll $$$ and thats what they have to show for it?
I know it would create uneasiness but what else can he do?
I would get them the message that they grossly underachieved, and that they are way more talented than they showed.
Its a little cheesy to do that to millionaires, but the only leverage the manager has is play time. These guys don`t want to sit and watch on a home stand.
TKinDC -
Thanks for the laugh!
I think most people are looking for an easy scapegoat, and unfortunately, this year there are quite a few. So many things went wrong, so many people on whom to pin the “blame,” if that’s what a person is wont to do. I choose to chalk it up to a very off year, with the caveat that unless changes are made it could run over into next year.
I missed the info that Toronto had lost last night. Okay, Minnesota it is.
I so want Joba to start. Hopefully the Yankees braintrust will come to that same conclusion.
Thanks, Fredo, for the Ted Williams information.
You know, you hear so many baseball stories over the years from so many sources, that they tend to get a bit jumbled at times. Sometimes my brain retrieves the data very well, other times, well, let’s just say that other times my brain takes a vacation.
Does Wang have to go to arbitration again?
The time for Girardi to use the managerial tool of sitting players for underperforming was back when it meant something. But he wouldn’t even use that tool on Cano. He would look ridiculous trying to play tough guy now.
Mel:
Unless he is signed to an extension prior to a hearing, Wang and the Yankees will have to go the arbitration route yet again.
While A-Rod is in the running for the HR championship I wouldn’t expect to see him sit much. It is the sort of thing he lives for.
Fredo,
Thanks. Poor guy, the first one really affected him. The injury convolutes it a little. And he’s going to have to hear that little leaguers run the bases better than he does.
Mel:
You think Wang was affected by the process, eh? He didn’t really pitch like it. I do think he may have been bothered by Cano getting the big kiss for his efforts, while 2 19 win seasons got him a 1 year commitment.
Injury sure doesn’t help his case.
Fredo,
It didn’t affect his pitching. Just the opposite in some aspects. There was an “How’s this?” kind of an effort.
I think someone actually wrote (Pete?) was bothered by it? It can’t be comfortable having the team critique you in order to drive down the price.
Aceves pitched well in one start. How does that make him a candidate for the rotation next year?
Regardless of who wants to be back, its not their choice. That’s up to the Yankees.
I doubt we will see more than one younger arm (Joba) in the rotation at the start of the next year. I think the ship has sailed on the, “let’s play the kids” movement.
I also think its doubtful they bring both Moose and Andy back unless they completely whiff in the free agent and trade markets. If both come back, that’s a worse case scenario for the Yankees because it would mean they missed on their priority off-season targets.
They are going to have to spend and spend mightily this off-season to improve this team.
Unless of course, folks want them to finish 4th again next year. If they do then by all means, play the kids.
Gardner, Cano, Cabrera, Kennedy and Hughes have given this team nothing this season. To go back to a failed strategy, in the hopes of it being better next year, is the very defninition of baseball insanity.
if Wang doesnt get hurt, the yankees make the playoffs
you figure Wang would have won at least 5 of the 11 games rasner lost
SJ44 — I completely agree. Now, however, they might as well start playing some of the younger guys (i.e., Gardner, Ransom). At least their hearts and minds will be in the game, unlike what we’re observing from the overpaid veterans.
Wang probably wont get a long term deal after missing more than half the season. If I were him I’d be ticked that Cano got the $$$ that he didn’t, but if he comes back and hangs up another 19-win season he’s going to make a LOT more money than Robinson.
The idea of benching A-Road is idiotic. There is one player in the AL in the top ten in all three triple crown categories and he’s it. If everyone on this team was having the “lousy” year he was they’d be preparing to sell postseason tickets instead of an offseason recontruction. Yes he’s had a lousy year with RISP, but that’s just one stat category, and one that is dwelled on way too much.
A weird thing about A-Rod. He’s hitting .298 with a runner on first and .444 with a runner on third. Add in runners on first and third (7-27) and he’s over .300 with runners on but NOT on 2B. If there’s a runner on 2B he’s a .230 hitter. Makes me wonder if it’s just a concentration thing as much as anything else. Or it could just be a fluke.
Ransom is not young. He’s 32 years old. He is a journeyman player.
At this point, playing young players in meaningless games doesn’t accomplish anything.
Play the veterans the rest of the way. They can’t only see the field in good times. They own this season. Let them finish it out.
Free agents the yankees need to consider:
Pitchers
CC, AJ,
Derek Lowe, Will Ohman, Jon Garland, Oliver Perez, Ben Sheets.
position players
Mark Teixeira, Milton Bradley,Pat Burrell(maybe a first-base option? …just throwing it out there). Say no to Manny and Dunn.
No real options for CF…too bad. Cashman was high on kotsay at one time however.
I’m not advocating the yanks to sign anyone. Although CC would look good in pinstripes…they are slimming after all.
ZMAN
Do you really believe Gardner and Ransom have any shot of being starters on the Yankees next season? If not, why play them.
Heart and mind are hard to measure, results are easier to measure. I think you are falling victim to the trap that lack of results is because of lack of effort (or heart and mind) as you choose to call it.
“Now, however, they might as well start playing some of the younger guys (i.e., Gardner, Ransom).”
Ransom = 33 year old on Opening Day 2009
He’s not a “younger” guy. He’s Crash Freakin’ Davis for crying out loud. He has 4111 minor league at bats and 148 major league at bats. He’s a non factor. He’s simply not good enough.
“I doubt we will see more than one younger arm (Joba) in the rotation at the start of the next year. I think the ship has sailed on the, “let’s play the kids†movement.”
I have a feeling that if there is one young arm in the rotation opening day next year it will be Phil Hughes, not Joba.
I understand the arguments against it – and I’m not saying starting Hughes in the rotation with the ‘big club’ over AAA is ideal – but I believe it will happen.
I agree with SJ that only one of the ‘graybeards’ should come back and that it should be Moose. Aceves looks to me like one of several candidates for long man, but not a rotation guy barring major injury issues. Of course IPK starts in AAA and stays there unless he gets dealt in the off-season.
“He’s not a “younger†guy. He’s Crash Freakin’ Davis for crying out loud.”
lol – agreed.
I do think you ought to bring up Shelley Duncan just for the attitude he brings. Otherwise the dugout might fall asleep.
Could be defensive positioning also with man on 2b
SJ,
Who do you see the Yankees targeting and actually getting?
Right now, we have Wang and… well Wang, if they start Joba in the pen.
Why not just pick-up Pavano’s option and make him the long man out of pen–pitching garbage innings is his ideal role after all. Also it would prevent Girardi from ruining a more useful arm ie marte….
I like the idea of Aceves as long reliever since we never really settled on anyone this year.
SJ,
Maybe you know something I don’t but why would the Yanks not want Pettitte back? He can still be a back of the rotation guy and if he goes 15-13 as a fifth starter isn’t that all you hope for from that slot?
I agree re not repeating the same mistake with the youngsters but what then do you do with Hughes? I think either you believe in him and give him another chance or get rid of him.
I think Lowe would be a perfect fit… eats innings and is a workhorse, pitched in big games, will accept short term deal.
Give Wang a 4 year deal now!!! He has earned it. Everyone gets hurt at some point, but he has won 19 games his last two full seasons, so i think he has earned it as much as anyone. If there is anyone in their 20s here that deserves to be treated as a Yankee lifer, it is Chien Ming Wang.
I heard a soundbyte of Timlin’s postgame last night. He said the pitch to Pena was a good one. (nervous laughter) and that obviously it’s not the first time it’s happened this year (embarrassed laughter).
If it wasn’t the Red Sox, I’d feel sorry for him. Is he grandfathered in forever?
Is there any doubt that Torre would have gotten better peformances out of the players? The players played for him. They don’t play for Girardi.
Start Hughes in AAA next year, let him build some confidence and bring him up during the year. I 100% disagree with Joba starting in the Pen. Doesnt it make more sense to start him as a starter and when he gets to an innings limit, then drop him in the pen. What if he gets hurt again and misses an innings limit? Then he is screwed in 09 and 10.
What about a trade for Dontrelle Willis? He would be a classic low-risk, high reward guy. He is one of the best competitors in baseball. Lefty, good stuff, but his mechanics are out of whack. Nardi can fix him easily and he could be a Perez-like steal for us.
MooseCall,
I’m beginning to suspect that. But I think it has less to do with Girardi, and more to do with the PTS (Post-Torre Syndrome).
If they can’t play for Girardi, they won’t play for anybody. Sad, sad, sad.
Or it could be that they miss Wang and Posada. What that has to do with their hitting, I don’t know. Could be they really hate Giambi.
I really suspect though, that they are in some kind of hypnotic mist and under a load of pressure to make the last season at the stadium special.
If moving into the new stadium doesn’t jazz them up and make them play with energy, I don’t know what will.
I agree on Lowe. He may be a better option than Burnett, who I think is another Pavano waiting to happen. I just don’t trust pitchers with injury histories who seem to stay healthy evertime a contract year comes around (the only 2 times in 9+ years he has made 30 starts have been contract years).
“What about a trade for Dontrelle Willis? He would be a classic low-risk, high reward guy.”
Low risk, high reward? You’ve got that backwards. The guy is making nearly $10 million a year and is in single A.
Moose Call -
Then how would you explain the last 3 playoffs the Yankees didn’t go on to the next round?
I don’t know that I buy the idea that the players played for Torre and they don’t play for Girardi. Of course, there’s no way to know that for sure. And if nothing else, one would think they’d at least play for themselves.
Low risk, high reward? You’ve got that backwards. The guy is making nearly $10 million a year and is in single A.
Give’em Igawa
Well if you blame Girardi for the lineup underperforming then does Girardi get credit for squeezing more out of the rotation and bullpen— Rasner, Giese, Ponson, Farnsworth, Veras, Bruney, Edwar, etc. than we could have ever imagined? Everyone said this was one of the worst pens in baseball to start the year and it has done very well. The rotation was patchworked together with guys off the scrap heap and it has done fine based on what was expected of it.
It works both ways. Farnsworth and Bruney admitted Girardi’s confidence in them helped them tremendously. Would guys like Veras or Edwar have been given chances at all? Would that force Joba to stay in the pen because we had nobody to pitch the 8th? So many variables in place to say Torre would have done better.
And the biggest question of all… would Torre teach the lineup how to hit with RISP? If he can, then why were these guys swinging at 85 MPH fastballs from Paul Byrd in an elimination game at home in the ALDS last year? Why did we allow Kenny Rogers to get his first postseason win and throw 7.2 innings of scoreless ball against us?
This team is just mentally weak and lacks toughness.
Is there a reason why people believe Derek Lowe will accpet a short term contract???? This is it for him. His last shot a decent payday.
Fredo, I think the idea that Lowe will accept a short term deal (3 years or less) has to do with his age.
The RISP problem is nothing new. It reared it’s ugly head in the postseason 5 years ago and made a cameo appearance last season.
“This team is just mentally weak and lacks toughness.”
Working through the minors to get to the majors is a more involved process of thinning the herd than any other professional team sport. The real mentally weak player would never get there to start with.
if you think coke looks good, wait until you see mike dunn
95 MPH heat with a nasty slider
Jeter needs to move to first. If Jete is a team player, he would go to first. Arod is a better SS , and he moved to third to be on the team. They can get a better defensive SS, and shore up the infield. Jeter’s ego needs to be knocked down a few pegs.
ack! *its
I also think that Kevin Long will be replaced after the dismal hitting. The record is one thing, but the number of games where we scored less than 3 runs is unprecedented.
A bit unfair to put in on Long because I think the guys chose not to put up quality at-bats everytime they came up to the plate.
But he’s going to go. Meacham’s going to go, even though there hasn’t been anyone to wave around in a long, long time. Giambi’s going to go. Finally.
Tom:
I hear you on Lowe, but respectfully disagree. Again I refer people to the Carlos Silva contract, the benchmark for crap deals. Even as Silva is 5 years younger, he’s nowhere near the pitcher Lowe is. Further, you look at Lowe’s last 4 years and he’s really been quite impressive. Sure, it’s the NL, but he’s been chronically a half run to three quarters of a run below the league average ERA AND he’s survived the rigors of the AL East (though in ’04, he was among the worst starters in the AL).
That is why we need Manny !
A-Rod and the rest are all headcases ! They hold the bat tighter when the situation gets bigger ! GIDPs, Ks, all in big spots. They have been doing this for years ! They are mentally weak and do not know how to execute fundamentals like a team like the Twins do !
Go get players who want to be at bat in the big spot ! Not guys who do not want to be in that spot because they do not want to be booed or fail !
I am also sick of Jeter being fraternizing with the other tema !
Jose- Paul (HGH) Byrd got one by us last year, and pitched a good geezer game. Kenny (Pine Tar) Rogers on the other hand cheated, the umps even caught him with pine tar on his hand, he was probably doing roids too, since his record hasn’t been the same since 2006.
Why on Earth would anyone want to go after Derek Lowe? If there’s one thing we should all have learned in the last few years, it’s that NL pitchers seem to get bombed when they come over to the AL. And AL pitchers on the downside of their careers seem to get new life in the NL.
I’d spend my money on CC, bring back Moose (but not Pettite), and go with a starting four of Moose, Wang, CC and Joba. If Hughes stays healthy and has a good Spring, I’d slot him in as the fifth starter. And for G-d’s sake, let’s get some sort of bench, including a power hitter who can change a game with one swing. Haven’t had that since Darryl Strawberry and Cecil Fielder were on the bench.
Give Giambi and Pettite their walking papers and use the money saved from them and Pavano to sign CC. It all revolves around the pitching staff. The offense will come back, but this year’s pitching woes are what killed the Yankees.
Mel- The Yankees brass should do to Girardi, what they did to Torre, surround him with a coaching staff of former managers as a threat for next season.
Jeter at first makes zero sense.
His D this year has been fine. Who knows what kind of SS A-Rod would be since he has conditioned himself to be bigger and play 3b. It isn’t like we have anyone knocking on the door to play 3b in the system – or even an obvious FA floating around that makes the team better.
Also Jete’s offensive production is not a fit for 1b. CF? maybe.
The thing is Jete’s a big primmadonna, who won’t change positions. Look at Jorge too, bitching about playing first. Who works for who?
mel -
I think coaches end up being fired because players can’t be. I think Long put in a lot of hours with these guys, but unfortunately got nothing to show for it. Last year, ARod said he was the difference maker in his approach. Now, ARod is certainly putting up good-ish numbers overall, but his situational hitting wasn’t what it should be, not for a #4 hitter. Is that Long’s fault? I doubt it.
But, someone has to go, and probably Long is a sacrificial lamb here. Meachum probably goes, too.
What about the bench coach?
The thing I’ve been thinking throughout the course of the season is that these guys just did not have good approaches at the plate. Often, they looked like they were guessing and more than that, they often looked overmatched. As if someone gave them the wrong scouting reports. (Was there sabottage involved???? Hmmm…)
It seemed like the entire league said, the Yankees take a lot of pitches so just throw strikes to get ahead, and then you’re good to go. And the hitters never quite adjusted to this. It’s what happened in the playoffs in years past, and it finally worked its way into the season.
So is that the batting coach? Is that the manager’s philosophy? I don’t know. Nothing worked this year. Nothing.
if you think coke looks good, wait until you see mike dunn
95 MPH heat with a nasty slider
Steve I’ve been telling them about him, there is no reason he won’t be up next yr. not w/ that arsenal.
Fire Meachum and Long
Move Pena to 3rd
Rob Thompson to 1st
Ricky Henderson as hitting coach
Don Baylor as bench coach
Are people still trying install Alex at SS?
Was the Yes crew talking about some old timer who played 3B pretty shallow? It allowed him to cut off balls before they got out of the infield or something?
Do you guys know anything about that? Not knocking Alex cuz he’s the best 3B, but I’ve seen a lot of balls leak through. Or am I just being cranky about everything?
You know, Jeter not switching positions (or really even being asked to by the Yankees) when ARod came was more of a reflection on ARod’s ability to make the switch over Jeter’s ability to do so.
I think when the time comes, if it does, Jeter will be fine with whatever the Yankees ask him to do. But why should such a move be made now? There are no slick-fielding, hitting machine shortstops or 3B banging at the door. Jeter’s not in anyone’s way. It’s just a little premature.
Well isn’t this a fine mess the Yankees are in?
I don’t think the Yankees will be able to get Sabathia or Teixeira…unfortunate but true. New York no longer has the allure. They may have the money but not the pull that the Torre era Yankees had. We’re back to the dark ages.
With that in mind. You have to bring back both Moose and Pettitte. With Wang that gives you at least a solid three. I’m still an advocate of keeping Joba in the pen to be a multiple inning pitcher ala Gossage (but I know I’m in the minority there). Maybe Hughes can be in the rotation???
Kennedy has to be traded. Maybe they can score DeJesus from the Royals…good player, from Brooklyn, he’ll feel at home. Plug him into center. Use Ransom as the utility guy. Trade Betemit. Trade Damon or Matsui. Let Giambi, Pavano, Abreu, etc…walk.
Here’s the kicker…they should sign Manny…I know crazy. Manny can flat out hit, always wanted to be a Yankee. They’re not going to get Tex, Manny’s clutch.
I also think they need to get a real first baseman. No more converting on the fly, get a glove in there.
I wouldn’t be opposed to trading Cano either.
Here’s something to work off of (fill in the blanks):
1B – ?
2B – Cano/or ?
SS – Jeter
3B – ARod
C- Posada/Molina
CF – DeJesus
RF – Nady
LF – Manny/Damon
DH – Manny/Matsui
P – Wang
P – Mussina
P – Pettitte
P – Hughes?
P – Free Agent/Trade/Bueller?
RP – Joba
RP – Aceves
RP – Marte/Coke?
RP – Bruney?
RP – Geise
C – Mo
Whoever?
Bench – Ransom
Bench – Christian
Bench – ?
Bench – ?
Bench – ?
And I can’t help thinking what might have been if Cashman had gotten Lilly and Santana. Combined with Pettitte, 3 lefties in Yankees Stadium would have been nice.
Oh yeah…and Bobby V as Manager.
“Jeter at first makes zero sense.”
Sense??? What’s making sense have to do with anything?
You new here or somethin’????
Rivera
Marte
Dunn
Melancon
Bruney
Veras
Sanchez
Coke
Edwar
Robertson
Cox (if he can right himself)
Wow, the competition next year for the pen is going to be stiff. And that doesn’t even include someone like Giese/Aceves who Girardi will take as the long man.
Jeter to first? Does his bat transfer to first base? What makes guys like Jeter and Posada valuable are the postions they play. Moving either one to first base weakens the team on offence because they would be “league average” there at best while their former positions would be played by lesser offensive players.
“I’m Bill James and I approve this message”
We need to win the rest of our games…ALL OF THEM….it all starts with the first one….GO…FIGHT…WIN…
Why not make Girardi feel REALLY uncomfortable?
Bench Coach – Willie
Hitting Coach – Tino
Pitching Coach – Eliand
1B coach – Pena
3B coach – Jim Tracy
BP Coach – Lee Mezilli
I read this morning that Michael Young is contracted to be getting an $11 million raise for 2009 from $5 to $16 million.
Other than CC, is there any player you can think of that could bump their salary by $11 million dollars in 1 year?
You know Aceves would make an excellent long man.
Pitched professionally for years without injuries that we’ve really heard about.
Throws strikes. Poised. Fearless (Hafner who? Vlad who?).
Long man with the ability to make spot starts.
It’s been many years since we’ve had one.
We’ve got the lefty reliever (two!), now we need to get an ace, and some hitters and we’re good to go.
Pen looks to be excellent again.
Oh, yeah. Eddie must go.
(If you’re not familiar with the story of Eddie Aikau, check it out. There’s a famous saying “Eddie Would Go”)
Why not Pettitte? 16 million reasons why not.
They aren’t going to pay Andy Pettitte 16 million dollars in 2009. Will he accept a pay cut? How much of a pay cut would he accept? Can he still pitch well enough to be in a rotation for 30+ starts a year? All very legitimate questions.
As far as performance, he doesn’t look like he can be a top guy on a staff anymore. If that’s the case, you have to pass on bringing him back.
When somebody says, “He can be a #5 starter”, on the surface, that’s true. However, #5 starters don’t earn 16 million dollars a year. They earn MUCH less.
For Andy Pettitte to return, he has to be able to pitch at the level of a #3 starter and be paid less than 16 million bucks. Can that happen? Not sure, based on his second half this year.
Mel,
Who will they target? I think they will go after both CC and AJ very hard. I think they are the top two guys on the their list. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out.
If they were to sign both guys (despite the crows of some, very possible, IMO), you have Wang, CC, AJ, and Joba as a 5th starter next year. Moose? I think if they signed both guys, Moose would come back because he would see they would have a chance to win again. I don’t think Moose comes back unless he thinks they have a shot to win.
Hughes? I think he starts in AAA or is dealt in the off-season for an under 30, impact position player.
Cano? I think they will shop him. However, absent a deal that is a win for the Yankees (two, under-30 impact major league players) he will probably be back. If he is, I believe they will look for a Ryan Freel-like utility guy that can be inserted for Cano if he decides to mail in another season.
If he is back, I think his leash will be shorter than ever. Right now, he probably has as much of a chance of finishing next year in Scranton than he does in NY unless he gets his act together. Its going to be a very interesting off-season for Cano. In a lot of ways, a make or break off-season for him.
Does he turn into Roberto Kelly (a former, early in his career all star who never panned out) or does he become the player some think he can be? Time will tell.
I think they will sign a veteran CF to a one year deal to be the stopgap in CF until Austin Jackson is ready. I think Jackson is the CF of the future for the Yankees. Perhaps as early as July 2009.
IMO, they won’t be players for Tex. I don’t think they want entry into the Scott Boras Circus on that one. I think they will either go into the trade market to find a first baseman, or convert one of their over 35 players they can’t deal into a first baseman.
Either way, it all starts on the pitching mound. What they do in free agency to upgrade the staff will determine the rest of their moves.
pat,
How old is Young? He’s looking really old, and not quite the player he used to be.
Just got our tix for tonights game in Durham. Igawa’s on the mound and we’re looking for a S-WB sweep! (although a loss means we get to see Hughes pitch tomorrow). Should I bring a broom? Hey, its the closest we’ll get to a “Yankee” title this year. Go Scranton!! WOO HOOOO !!!!!
Derek Lowe has one more big payday coming. He’s also coming off a messy divorce and has Scott Boras as his agent.
Meaning? No pay cuts and no short term deals. As Fredo correctly points out, the Silva contract will play bigtime into what #3 and #4 starter types will earn.
When folks talk about off-season moves, its important to understand how players are compensated. Contracts in the marketplace for players of similar talents and positions are the benchmarks when determining value.
Very few effective free agents take pay cuts or short term deals. They also aren’t changing positions, so we can forget about the “K-Rod will set up for Mo”, nonsense.
Its capitalism at its finest at work in free agency. Make the biggest offers and, 9 times out of 10, you get the player.
Its not about “allure”, “Joe Torre” or any of that other nonsense. Its about the cash.
mel
32. He’s under contract at $16 million per thru 2013.
the yankees need to play the new kind of baseball that is in vogue right now in the aftermath of ped reduction.
clean house from top to bottom and rebuild team around pitching ,defense,and situational hitting. get players who have gunslinger eyes who know when to go for the kill.
SJ44 -
It’s not about “allure” or “Joe Torre” unless the player needs an extra push, especially of all the offers are comparable and there are upsides and downsides to each of them. That’s where the “intangibles” enter into the picture.
Damon said he felt “wanted” by the Yankees. So he came here. Pettitte, when he left, said he felt “unwanted” by the Yankees despite the better offer because of the way it was handled.
So, sure, money is the largest piece of the puzzle, but the other stuff can come into play.
SJ,
I agree they go hard after CC & AJ. To hedge their bets at least.
I don’t see anyone else worth going after. I will stick to my guns about there being a place for Moose and Andy. And of course they wouldn’t pay Andy $16M, that second year option was to lure Andy back in the first place.
If you get both of the free agents you have:
CC
Wang
AJ
Moose
Andy
I prefer to have Joba start, but if they don’t let him pitch in the minors to build up his IP properly. If one of the targets chooses to pitch elsewhere (CC), it’s not because we didn’t try or offer enough money. I think it’s a lifestyle choice.
So more likely:
Wang
AJ
Joba
Moose
Pettitte
With lots of young pitchers to spot start if injuries pop up and take Joba’s place in the rotation.
If you were the Yankees would Joba start or relieve in the spring?
If you don’t bring back Andy, you essentially need to fill 3 slots via free agency OR you’ll be depending on kids with low innings count.
I’d prefer to bring back Andy than go to the rubbish heap for the likes of Ponson, et al.
Why does everybody on this board want cody ransom on this team? is it because he’s versatile? He’s the same age as Arod and has played in less than a seasons worth of games. He reminds me of an older version of Wilson Betemit, who makes me long for the days of Ron Coomer, John Vander wal and Sojo.
** especially IF the offers are comparable…
“Damon said he felt “wanted†by the Yankees.”
Probably helped that 28 other MLB teams made him no offer and Boston’s was for far less money.
Mel, there’s this guy, and his name is Phil Hughes…and…
Fredo -
Picky, picky.
Randy, I believe Andy Pettitte leads the league in “Gunslinger Eyes” he’s also like 40th in ERA? But fuck that, Gunslinger Eyes win ball games, right?
“Why does everybody on this board want cody ransom on this team?”
Not everybody. Cody Ransom is being graced with back-up quarterback symptom. He looked good at that small glimpse you were given of him and has yet to show the holes in his game because you haven’t seen enough of him to see why he’s the back-up.
Mel,
I have seen this said several times. I’m just curious what the source of information is that is saying CC prefers the NL, or the west coast etc and not to pitch for the Yankees.
I personally think the Yankees will sign him.
Steve,
I guess you don’t know, I’m Phil’s #1 fan (joking, but barely).
Phil was brought up too early because of injuries last year. As a result of his own injuries, he still has IP issues.
Even though I’m a big fan, I can see the benefits of putting on the breaks a bit. I pencil him as the backup quarterback. Anything happens, he’s the guy. But at least you have confidence in him.
I like what I’ve seen from Phil in his 2 post season games so far. I think he has what it takes.
ray,
Actually it’s something we made up. And it kept snowballing. Urban myth really. Unless you count that he was caught wearing a Yankee cap as a fashion accessory.
“It’s not about “allure†or “Joe Torre†unless the player needs an extra push, especially of all the offers are comparable and there are upsides and downsides to each of them. That’s where the “intangibles†enter into the picture.”
Doreen – I think this is less true of people like CC who are getting their first big deal. A guy like Randy Johnson could look at things philosophically and think about ‘fit’ some. But there is both financial and peer pressure (from the union) to take the biggest deal.
Honestly, I don’t think it is going to be close. The Yankees offer should be jaw-dropping big.
“Unless you count that he was caught wearing a Yankee cap as a fashion accessory.”
alot of people, especially young black men, wear yankees hats as fashion acessory. and theyre often some of the ugliest hats ive ever seen.
If the only way to lure CC away from LA is by offering him 8/$175, would you do it?
Doreen,
By “wanted” does Johnny mean the Yankees “wanted” him more by being the only team to offer him 4 years at 52 million? Or, did he like the fact that Joe Torre called him?
I hate to be cynical but, having spent most of my career around athletes, especially in baseball free agency, 9 times out of 10, its the money that determines them feeling “wanted”.
For every player that talks about how much he “loves” playing for the Yankees, you don’t see them taking less to stay.
Bernie always “loved” playing in NY. Yet, he had Scott Boras as an agent and was ready to sign with the Red Sox when he played out his contract in NY until George added more money to the pot. If he didn’t, Bernie was headed to Boston.
Above all else, its a business and the players are out to maximize their value. I have no problem with that whatsoever. I just don’t buy in to the “feelings” discussions. Its all about the money, both to teams and the players in sports these days, with relative few exceptions.
Randy,
I agree with one caveat. The Yankees can’t act like they are the Marlins. Stop being embarrassed by the payroll. With the prices they are charging at the new stadium, this off-season shouldn’t be about payroll reduction. It should be about payroll logic. There is a difference.
By that, I mean that if you have the money they have, use it. Just use it intelligently. You can afford to sign BOTH CC and AJ to big deals AND still reduce payroll, if you so choose, in 2009.
Just have to keep yourself more flexible in terms of the number of years given out on deals. For example, if you sign CC and AJ to 4 year deals, for enormous annual money, with vesting options, you keep flexibility. If you sign them to long term (6 or more years) and back end the money on the deals (their old way of doing business), that’s where the problems set in.
For example, what’s best for CC Sabathia? A 4 year (with two vesting options) deal at 25 million per year, making him the highest AAV (Average Annual Value) starting pitcher in baseball history, with a chance to go back into the FA market at 33? Or, a 6-7 year deal for less (21 or 22) AAV?
If I was CC, I’d take the shorter term, big money deal, knowing I could be out on the market (if I don’t hit my incentives to vest my option) in 4 years.
Either way, its all about being creative this off-season for the Yankees. The more creative they can be, the more holes they can fill this off-season.
“Unless you count that he was caught wearing a Yankee cap as a fashion accessory.â€
That was photoshop. Did you really think he would wear a Yankee cap while under contract with an other MLB team?
I disagree…”allure” and “Joe Torre” do play into it. The Yankees need players who want to play here, they don’t need players just looking for a big paycheck. Look what happened in the late 80′s early 90′s (we’ll call that the 2nd dark ages, the mid 60′s being the first). Signing guys like Jack Clark, etc…
Believe it or not, there are a lot of good players that don’t want to play in New York. A lot of these guys are from small rural areas and don’t want that kind of pressure. You need players who thrive on it. David Cone comes to mind.
Plus there’s more money around the game now, thanks in large part to the Yankees bad moves. Don’t be surprised to see CC and Tex not in New York. And the Yankees better be buyer beware if they go after Burnett…he’s exactly the kind of guy I’m talking about, looking for a big contract and then poof!
Oddly enough, at the beginning of the season, I thought the Yankees should stay away from Sabathia. But you have to adjust your thinking to the situation at hand. And the situation at hand is the Yankees have exactly one high quality pitcher right now, Wang. And you know, although his injury was a foot injury, I still have an uneasy feeling that it’s not going to be smooth sailing for him in the beginning of next season. (I think ultimately he’ll be fine, but just hedging here a bit.) So, I’m hoping the Yankees do make CC an “offer he can’t refuse.”
TKinDC -
You’re probably right that the intangibles come more into play with FAs the second time around, or when they’re older established players. My point was you really can never throw enough at a player to make him want to play on your team. If it takes a trip through monument park and wearing the pinstripes (for a draft hopeful) or a personal phone call from all 25 men on a roster, when you want someone that bad, you do pull out all the stops. And Joe Torre had that gift of blarney – a smooth talker (and I mean that in a good way) that I don’t think anyone right now will match.
How long after the WS ends before all this can start to happen??????? Can’t we do it now????? I mean, after all, we’re the Yankees!!! (Just kidding)
A few moves I’d like to see the Yankees explore, if, but only if, they succeed in signing one or two top free-agent starters.
1) See whether Hughes, Veras or Bruney, and Romine or Cervelli could net the Yankees Ryan Howard. The Phillies are having difficulty signing him to a long-term deal and reportedly will consider trading him, if they re-sign Burrell.
2) Find out from the Brewers which of their young hitters they’re willing to surrender for some permutation of the above package.
3) Re-singing Abreu for 2 years, and trading Matsui and/or moving Damon to 1B.
4) Explore the possibility of trading Kei Igawa to Angels for Gary Matthews’ Jr. in a trade of mutual salary dumps/albatrosses, if Gary’s knees are healthy and can play CF again.
5) Gauge whether Teixiera would consider a 7-year contract instead of 10-years.
SJ44-
I’m not foolish enough to think that Damon would have come here if the money wasn’t there. If there were multiple similar offers coming through, though, perhaps a couple of phone calls from Torre and whoever else could tip the balance. And probably, to some small extent, it did push him to accept a deal to a team he said he’d never play for. In the end, yes, it’s about the money. Always about the money. But the extras never hurt.
we need more tough veterans on this team, guys that are not afraid to get into a brawl and who play with passion.
Doreen,
True but, the Red Sox offer was close to being comparable, except for the years. Yet, even though he had great success in Boston, and previously stated that he would “never play for the Yankees”, he did exactly what he said he wouldn’t do.
In some cases, the recruiting touch definitely helps. However, if significant cash doesn’t follow the recruiting pitch, you rarely get the player.
Sometimes, you can recruit too good. Pavano said the biggest reason he came to the Yankees was Joe Torre. He was one case where he actually took less money (Seattle and Detroit offered him more money than the Yankees) to come to NY. Needless to say, that didn’t work very well.
The Yankees also dispatched Torre to Arizona one off-season to play golf with Albert Belle to determine whether or not to try and sign him. After their round of golf, Torre pushed them to do the deal. At the last minute, the Yankees backed off. One might say they dodged a bullet on that one.
There really isn’t any foolproof way of finding out who is in NY for the cash and who really wants to be here. Until they actually play in NY, one never knows who can pass that test.
Come to think of it, didn’t Damon’s deal come down to years? I thought the RS upped their offer in dollars, but would not go for the 4th year and that’s what landed in favor of the Yankees. And as for feeling unwanted, the Sox weren’t proactive in going after him, while the Yankees were.
I just think it’s more a complicated decision than a lot of us think.
“If I was CC, I’d take the shorter term, big money deal,”
Who’s the last free agent or soon to be free agent (i.e. Santana, before signing with the Mets) that did this? I honestly can’t think of any.
While I understand and appreciate the proposed approach, it’s not one that I’d guess has eluded GM’s of today.
As I see it the approach agents take is:
Guaranteed years > money
Sabathia’s agent won’t have him sign 4 years/$100 and run the risk of injury when someone will have 7 and $160M+ waiting for him. Not going to happen, especially with a pitcher.
“If there were multiple similar offers coming through, though,”
There were not.
“perhaps a couple of phone calls from Torre and whoever else could tip the balance.”
Only two phone calls that mattered. One was from Cahsman, who gave him a 3-4 hour window to accept the deal or forget it. Second was the one that never came from the Red Sox.
Just got our tix for tonights game in Durham. Igawa’s on the mound and we’re looking for a S-WB sweep! (although a loss means we get to see Hughes pitch tomorrow). Should I bring a broom? Hey, its the closest we’ll get to a “Yankee†title this year. Go Scranton!! WOO HOOOO !!!!!
Igawa vs AAA BRING THE BROOM AND THE TRASH BAG BECAUSE IT’S IN THE BAG !
Wouldn’t Beltran have taken less to come to the Yankees…not much less, but less just the same?
I agree with SJ44′s post when he writes that in 9 out of 10 cases with free agents it is about the money.
Indeed baseball is a business for both the owners and the players. Accordingly, I have no problem with a free agent maximizing his value and securing financial security, although some of the tactics of super agent Boras are detestable.
My issue is when the free agent signs and says it was not about the money, it was about being wanted and being valued. To which I say, BULL_______! Just be honest and say you went for the financial security. Don’t candy coat it with the language of being wanted and being treated with respect.
“By that, I mean that if you have the money they have, use it. Just use it intelligently. You can afford to sign BOTH CC and AJ to big deals AND still reduce payroll, if you so choose, in 2009.”
i agree. use the payroll intelligently as a powerful weapon to recreate the yankees.
to not use the resources that the fan base provides would be foolhardy and actually lead to a reduction in the fan base and a reduction of revenues.
kennedy and coke for saltalamachia?
The Pavano situation is an oddity all around, I guess.
No doubt you need to show the money, the perks don’t hurt. And you are 100% correct, there is no surefire way to figure out which players will thrive in NY and which will want to get out of town as soon as they can. (Although, I think you could figure that Randy Johnson was not going to be a good fit here.)
In the end it’s all Cashman’s fault. He’s a poor talent evaluator. Send him and Girardi packing. They should have kept Torre to close the old stadium and open the new, or fired him earlier and hired Lou or Bobby V.
Girardi has no juice and seems lost. He was fine for the Marlins but not here. Cashman needs to put down his latest addition of Moneyball and realize he has some money.
If he keeps putting a product like this out there, he’s going to find a lot of empty seats in the stadium come 2010.
“kennedy and coke for saltalamachia?”
Rangers could probably do a little better.
SJ44, what do you think of the idea of trying acquire Ryan Howard or one of the Brewers’ young hitters?
Howard’s defense, while hardly great, doesn’t strike me as a sufficient liability.
However, I don’t watch enough Brewers’ games to know how bad Prince Fielder is as a defensive player or whether the Brewers would consider trading a Ryan Braun. Somehow I doubt the latter.
BTW, can Reggie Willits play CF and how well? He sounds like a decent one-year stopgap, if A-Jax is indeed only a year away.
“SJ44, what do you think of the idea of trying acquire Ryan Howard or one of the Brewers’ young hitters?”
Who you sending to either Milwaukee or Philly with Phil Hughes????
Off topic, but I can certainly understand where people may have some feelings over this:
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....er_st.html
Here’s to hoping the yankees play like they have been all year and get swept. (Don’t let boston win the division)
Vito
September 11th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
“Here’s to hoping the yankees play like they have been all year and get swept. (Don’t let boston win the division)”
Be nice my old friend Vito. I will be cheering for the Yankees simply because of my loyalty to the Yankees! (crossing my fingers)
kennedy and coke for saltalamachia?
Too much. Salty’s value right now is lower than that. Fredo the Red Sox didn’t even deal Hansen for him. Salty is cheap right now because he is raw in defense and offense, and now is shut down for the season because of injuries.
I had posted my off season plan a few weeks ago and I’m sticking to it.
Do whatever takes money wise to sign CC and AJ.
We have not developed a legit starter other than Joba and he’s probably starting next year in the pen (which I think is a mistake).
Then I would offer Moose and Andy 12 million for 1 year deals. Whoever jumps first is the 4th starter. If the other one comes back later in FA period and want to take it and we haven’t found another solid starter to replace him, you sign him. No 2 year deals for them. No 16 million.
Start the season with a projected rotation of CC, Wang, AJ, Moose and Pettitte.
Keep Marte and pick up his option. We need him. We’re seeing the signs that Veras and Edwar are not what some of us thought they would be.
With Mo, Joba, Marte at the back end with that rotation (adding in guys like Melancon, Robertson (if he gets his stuff back) we will have a very strong pen.
The first order of business is to do whatever it takes, including eating salary, to trade both Damon and Matsui. If we can pull off a Randy Johnson/Sheff type deal there for spare parts and minor leaguers, do it.
If I can get rid of both of them, I offer Abreu 2 years with a vesting option. If he doesn’t like it, he can go.
At 1b I try to trade for a guy like Ryan Shealy who is now blocked in the KC system. He’s 29, out of options, has had some monster seasons in AAA, played in the majors and should be hungry to prove himself. He’s also RH power. I bet we could get him for Edwar at the end of the day.
Get a guy like this and give him a shot with Jorge there to take some spot starts at 1b.
I’m steering clear of Texeira — I don’t sense he’s the attitude adjustment this team needs. I think he’ll fall in line behind Jeter and Arod and it will be more of the quiet professional millionaires boy club which is the problem with this team.
Then I make the deal with the devil and offer Manny 2 years at 50 million with a vesting option that can bring it to 3 years at 70 something million to come be our full time DH, part time LF.
We need the guy who WANTS the bat in his hands in the crucial spot. Perhaps Arod might learn something from playing with him and get his confidence back. The mere idea of pairing Arod and Manny 3-4 with the above rotation and pen spells playoffs to me.
From that point, we need to find a CF. Preferably a stopgap type guy who hits LH and can cover a lot of ground and hold the spot warm for Ajax.
If we don’t resign Abreu (after trading Damon and Matsui in my plan) then we need one more OF. I would look for LH hitting OF with a little pop who can field his position. If we get Abreu back though, we go with Abreu, Nady and whoever the CF turns out to be.
As for Cano, you all know I can’t stand him — but I don’t think we can trade him since I’m skeptical that he still has legit value.
If the right deal comes along and we can get an impact OF for him, deal him. Otherwise, I hang onto him and let him rebuild his value — but I make damn sure that Melky isn’t on the team with him from the start next year.
In my plan we keep Hughes, Ajax, etc for now. We just spend money on top starting pitching and Manny.
The fact is if we can get Manny, Pettite, Abreu and Moose back for short term high dollar deals, you do it.
They’ll all be off the books in 3 seasons so it’s not the end of the world.
You’re going to have to pony up for CC and AJ and I’m fine with it. I know in my heart, one of them will get hurt next season and hopefully that’s where a Hughes/Aceves/Brackman type steps up.
We can never have enough starting pitching.
I also make an sincere emphasis to get bench players like Millar, Stairs — not them exactly, but guys who have some fire in their belly. The culture of the clubhouse has to change and you need guys who aren’t afraid to ruffle Jeter’s feathers and don’t play nice.
If we were a hockey team, I’d say we need a couple of goons next season.
One thing I differ with you guys when you attribute purely financial motives to player’s decisions in free-agency. The player don’t act as cynically as we often portray them.
It may be about the money, but it’s not only about the money.
Money is the currency by which players measure how badly a team wants them.
Greed doesn’t compel Bernie Williams to eschew the Yankees initial $60 million 5-year offer and lean towards accepting the Red Sox 6-year 75 million dollar offer instead.
The 15 million dollar difference is significant less to him because of what the additional money buys than as a symbolic demonstration of the Red Sox’s regard for his ability and potential contribution and until the Yankees increased their offer, signified the Yankees’ ingratitude.
Accordingly, if the difference in the offers a free-agent receives is negligible, the role of a manager, general manager, or player in courting the free-agent can make the difference.
Mussina says the Yankees aggressive pursuit of him from the very beginning played a decisive part in his signing. The money didn’t hurt either, of course. But again, the money further symbolizes the Yankees’ desire for him.
It’s a subtle distinction, but an important one.
Brandon:
I agree Salty’s value may be low, but it ain’t lower than Kennedy’s. Why would they sell low on him anyway?
If this is the best Texas can do, they’ll deal Laird and let Salty build himself back up in AAA.
KS,
I don’t see the Phillies moving Ryan Howard. They will eventually ante up and pay him. He’s too valuable to the franchise not to keep.
Fielder? He makes Giambi look like a Gold Glove first baseman. He’s that bad defensively.
His body type scares the hell out of me. Love the passion he brings to the park every day and he plays hard. But, his body screams “breakdown” to me. I’d avoid him.
Girardi isn’t going anywhere. Calling for his firing may be fun to write on a blog but, its a non-starter. Its not going to happen.
Nor should he be fired after this season. He hasn’t done anything that would warrant being fired.
He inherited an old team that finally played up to (or down to, depending on your point of view) its age.
The troubling part is, the lack of development from the younger players. Is that Girardi’s fault? The players fault, or a combo of the two?
I would venture to guess both sides are guilty on that one.
He is finishing up his second season EVER as a manager. He is a work in progress as a manager. Way too early to give up on him after one year.
Doesn’t mean he won’t be under the gun more next year. Just means that you don’t fire him after one year.
See above Fredo. Veras or Bruney and Romine or Cervelli.
Well said G.
SJ44, what do you think about Reggie Willits or Gary Matthews, Jr. for CF, if the latter is healthy and the Angels subsidize some portion of his contract by taking Igawa?
Remember: Nady is a Boras client. The Yankees control him next year only. After the 2009 season, I believe, he’s a free-agent.
“See above Fredo. Veras or Bruney and Romine or Cervelli.”
So a untruswothy reliever and a catching prospect that’s tought of lesser than their top catching prospect???
If I’m Philly, my response is “what else you got?”
Brewers??? Not sure. Gets you nowhere near Braun. Fielder?? Maybe.
I don’t think Willets and Matthews can play a lick. Willets is a switch hitting version of Brett Gardner.
I’d sign a guy like Mark Kotsay to a short term deal in free agency before I would touch Matthews Jr’s contract.
He currently owns one of the worst contracts in baseball. I don’t see those guys as solutions to the Yankees problems.
Sometimes, we watch a player play well against the Yankees and believe that player may be an answer. Sometimes, a player just plays well against a certain team. Just one of those crazy quirks in baseball.
I think Nady can be a very useful player for the Yankees next year. Depending of course, on how the team around him is reshaped.
The Yanks need to find a way to get Joba up to 120 IP this year so that next year he can go 145-150. Allowing Joba 3 starts in fall/winter league baseball would easily do that. This upped IP limit has a domino affect on 09 because if Joba is allowed to throw 150 innings next year then he will only have to stay in the pen for the first 6 weeks and then get stretched out for the rotation come memorial day.
*thought
How long is Bowa under contract with LA for? It might be worth looking into bringing him back for the 3B coaching spot, if he is interested.
It might help with Cano. Couldn’t hurt, anyway.
“How long is Bowa under contract with LA for? It might be worth looking into bringing him back for the 3B coaching spot, if he is interested.
It might help with Cano. Couldn’t hurt, anyway.”
Replace that turd Meachem at 3B, great idea. At the same time get back the guy who was in Cano’s face his first 3 years.
SJ what would you do if you were the GM of the yankees this offseason? Which area would you emphasize the most? What prospects will you keep and which ones would you trade?
Certainly not Phil Hughes, this kid just screams “Ervin Santanna” Syndrome. A kid who was exceptionally good in the playoffs as a reliever then next year absolutely catastrophic. But now he is a candidate for the CY Young.
I absolutely believe if Cashman deals Hughes it will come back to haunt us.
If you keep Joba as the #5 starter, you can easily keep his innings under control.
You could have him start about 22-24 games as a #5 starter and you can manage his innings effectively from that slot in the rotation.
Its why I hope they don’t start him again in the bullpen. At some point, its time to take the training wheels off and just manage his innings effectively out of the #5 slot in the rotation.
Other teams seem to do it. Why can’t the Yankees?
“If we were a hockey team, I’d say we need a couple of goons next season.”
i wasn’t kidding when i said the yankees need players with gunslinger eyes. graig nettles had them .pinella had them.cone had them.mariano has them. posada has them.
these aren’t goons. these are win at all cost players.
the whole team can’t be filled with this kind of player because there are not enough of them. three or four is enough to set the tone for the rest of the team to follow.
santana by the way was one of these players.
if sabathia or burnett is that kind of player, the yankees need to do what t takes to get him/them.
“I absolutely believe if Cashman deals Hughes it will come back to haunt us.”
I agree. I can see us trading Hughes and then him winning 15 games the next year that would piss me off. Cano on the other hand for the right player I’d trade.
I wouldn’t call Bruney and Veras unreliable relievers or discount their value. No reliever is infallible and both have proven very effective for the Yankees this year.
Either one whom the Philles, given their bullpen, would covet. I could think of a few more teams as well.
I’d also consider replacing either with Humberto Sanchez.
Who is the Philles great catching prospect whose ceiling exceeds Romine’s?
If that’s case, then perhaps, offer Hughes; Bruney, Veras, Sanchez, or Kontos, and Laird for Howard.
I just like Gary Matthews, Jr. for his defense. I agree that contract is an albatross, but if the Angels agreed to Igawa in exchange, the Yankees would earn a $4 million a year subsidy. The Yankees could do worse than $7 million a year for Gary Matthews, Jr for three years.
But I agree Kotsay is a better option, if he’ll indeed accept a year or two-year contract. Why do you think he’d be cheaper than Matthews, Jr. though?
I’m going to continue to disagree on Joba. Leave him in the pen, let him be a mutliple inning guy, old school. It’s time start thinking differently about the bullpen. The current way they’re configured is out of whack.
He’s young, a few years in the pen, just like Santana, then you can transition him.
Either way stop playing with his role. Pick one of the other for a while and let him be. Let him develop.
Bottom line— we need to go into next year with FOUR proven starters who can pitch 200 innings. Four guys who can go out there and give you an excellent chance to win when matched up against any pitcher. That way, Joba can be protected. The number 5 slot belongs to him obviously but you can mix and match if you have four reliable guys in front of him.
That’s where the rebuilding of the team needs to start and emulate the 90s… send a starter out every night who is very good and can compete against anybody. No more “Wang and pray for rain”. We need to get to the point where we can send our 4th-5th starters against Beckett and Kazmir and feel confident and not concede the matchup.
Fredo, I wouldn’t call Bruney and Veras unreliable relievers or discount their value. No reliever is infallible and both have proven very effective for the Yankees this year.
Either one whom the Philles, given their bullpen, would covet. I could think of a few more teams as well.
I’d also consider replacing either with Humberto Sanchez.
Who is the Philles great catching prospect whose ceiling exceeds Romine’s?
If that’s case, then perhaps, offer Hughes; Bruney, Veras, Sanchez, or Kontos, and Laird for Howard.
********************************************************
SJ44, I just like Gary Matthews, Jr. for his defense. I agree that contract is a millstone, but if the Angels agreed to Igawa in exchange, the Yankees would earn a $4 million a year subsidy on it. The Yankees could do worse than $7 million a year for Gary Matthews, Jr for three years.
But I agree Kotsay is a better option, if he’ll indeed accept a year or two-year contract. Why do you think he’d be cheaper than Matthews, Jr. though?
Nady’s long swing in the AL will be exposed as for the Salty talk Fredo they’d rather deal him then Laird. Salty is young can bring back propects, Laird is close to being a vet. Salty is the rawest of thier C dept, they have Max Ramirez and Taylor Teagarden who also is hitting better a Kennedy/Cox for Salty could get it done. Although I’d first dangle Kennedy to Washington and try to pry Lastings Milledge and a 1B/3B prospect in A ball player.
I’d trade Hughes in a heartbeat if we could get back a young stud position prospect.
I’d like to see Cincy’s Joey Votto play 1st base for Yanks next year.
If I was GM, I would build the team around pitching, defense and fundamentals.
It does you no good to spend a ton on pitching yet saddle the staff with a horrible defensive team. If you upgrade the pitching, you have to upgrade the defense.
#1 priority: Sign both AJ and CC. To me, its doable and it has to be done.
I’d re-sign Moose and not re-sign Pettitte. One lefty in the rotation is enough and I would use Pettitte’s money to upgrade other areas of the team. As well as adding it to the pot to pay CC and AJ.
If that happens, you have a rotation of Wang, CC, AJ, Moose and Joba. Joba is my fifth starter. I’d pass him over on off days to preserve his innings. That would keep him in the rotation, which is where he belongs.
I’d look to sign Marte to a 2 year deal rather than picking up his option. Used correctly, he is a very good arm in the ‘pen. His only problem with the Yankees came after he got overused in Texas and hurt his elbow. Other than that, he has done a good job.
I’d have Giese and Aceves battle it out in spring training to be the long man. This team has to have a long guy in the ‘pen. IMO, one of the early season problems this team had (and it cost them some games) was the lack of a steady long guy in the ‘pen. That has to change in ’09.
Whomever wins that job, joins, Bruney, Melancon, Veras, Mo and (hopefully) Coke in the bullpen. If Coke can make the team as a lefty out of the ‘pen, it gives the Yankees a weapon (second good lefty in the ‘pen) they have been without for some time.
That leaves one spot open in the ‘pen for Edwar and others to fight it out for and may the best guy win.
Hughes? He starts the year in AAA and we see what happens. He still has work to do and, if the past is any indication, injuries and/or ineffectiveness will probably get him 10-12 starts in NY in 2009 if he pitches well in AAA.
Position players? I have to wait until after the season to see who would be available for me to discuss what I would do.
SJ remember Micheal Dunn is in AA
To all those who want the Yankees to sign Manny Ramirez:
I thought the overiding feeling is that the Yankees needs to get younger and more athletic. Manny Ramirez meets neither criteria.
I thought Yankee fans wanted nothing to do with petulant prima donas. Manny Ramirez is the poster child for petulant prima donas.
I thought Yankee fans were tired of bad publicity and the embarrassment of harboring cheaters? Manny Ramirez’s actions that led to the Red Sox paying his way to the Dodgers was cheating of the worst kind. Manny Ramirez purposely cheated his team out of his best effort. In the case of his last at bat in Yankee Stadium, he purposely took 3 strikes. IMO that is worse than any steroid cheater because they at least were trying to improve thenselves and hence,their team.
If Manny Ramirez ever dons a Yankee uniforn it will be one of the most embarrassing moments in team history. If it were to happen, I’ll look forward to the rationlization that goes on when Ramirez gets comfortable in New York and stops running out ground balls and shows up for Spring Training on his own schedule.
“Who is the Philles great catching prospect whose ceiling exceeds Romine’s?”
Yankees have catchers in their system whose ceiling exceeds Romine’s. Why shouldn’t the Phillies. Lou Marson is close to big league ready now. Romine is a half decade away…at least.
Offer a bunch of pitching to Washington for Milledge. Offer them Eric Hacker, Coke, and Kontos for Milledge.
Then offer Kennedy for Salty.
Then bam, we have a young C/1B and young 5 Tool OF.
And if we could swing Hughes into a a legit young hitter, then the rebuilding would be complete. With Jackson coming up and Romine/Montero with fast-moving potential in Low A, we will be set.
Do it Cashman get creative!!!
“Salty is young can bring back propects”
Like I said, if Kennedy and Coke is the best they can do, it ain’t worth doing.
Who is the Philles great catching prospect whose ceiling exceeds Romine’s?
ummmm
the yankees need to knock the crap out of the devil rays and red sox next spring training the same way the ray’s kid ran over the yankee’s catcher last spring.
fans on the blog laughed at such macho spring training activities, but it set the tone for the ray’s year.
why wait for next year? this season is over for the yankees, so start spring training right now. any devil ray or red sox that gets in the way of a yankee player needs a message sent that there is a new operational plan in place.
Like I said, if Kennedy and Coke is the best they can do, it ain’t worth doing.
For Kennedy and Cox I’d do it, not for Coke in the same package. Unless Texas sweetens the deal. LH relievers aren’t coming cheap in this game.
Simple way to manage Joba’s innings… let him go 4-5 every start. Use a Joba/Aceves caddy for the first few weeks. Skip him when you have a chance.
Assuming you have CC, Burnett, Wang, Mussina you have 4 innings eaters. So you can afford to use the pen every 5th day.
With reliable long men like Aceves and Gese, this shouldn’t be a problem. Joba is our crown jewel of the farm, he cannot be jerked back and forth between the pen and rotation.
AA is a long way from the majors Brandon. Dunn won’t see NY for awhile, if at all.
Coke is more advanced. Now, does that mean he can get major league hitters out? I don’t know but, I am intrigued by him and would love to see him compete for a job in the ‘pen next season.
Unless the Steinbrenner’s sell the team, Manny is not going to be a Yankee. Nor should he.
Manny isn’t the answer to their woes. Once he gets his new contract, he will go back to “Manny bein’ Manny”.
Precisely why you pass on him.
One thing I do think we will see. The end of the, “all star at every position” concept.
I think their goal is to have a mix of role players, good, solid vets, and stars. Its why some of the position player changes may involve them going after lesser “name” players but, more effective players in the overall scope of the game.
Hey, I’d love to see the Yankees sign both Burnett and CC. I just doubt they’ll be able to do so.
If the Yankees had to decide between Pettitte and Mussina, I’m not sure I wouldn’t choose Pettite. He’s younger, he’s a lefty, and he seems more likely to give them 200 innings, which as far as I’m concerned should surpass every other criteria in deciding between the two.
Also, Pettitte, I suspect might accept a 1-year deal. Mussina, a union guy? Doubt it.
I think Salty will be on the Red Sox next year.
Brandon:
If I’m Texas, I want nothing to do with Kennedy. He’d get destroyed there. Average stuff with a little acumen won’t cut it there.
Here’s a trade to consider, & 2009 Plan:
Trade Huges, IPK & Cano to Marlins for Hanley Ramirez. Marlins just signed Hanley to an extention for a pretty reasonable amount so that might give them less incentive, however:
They are always looking to add good young pitchers to develop & Cano is a young (25) 2B with power who could replace Uggla.
Yanks can them move Jeter to 2B where he would project for a longer period than at SS. Plus they would add a young SS with range, power, & speed. (A 30/30 guy).
Pass on Tex if he wants more than a 5 yr, contract. Put Damon at 1B for speed, plus some pop 15-20 Hr’s & .300 avg.
Get Manny for 2yr. + option, he is best CLUTCH hitter in MLB & Yanks REALLY need that. Platoon him at LF & DH with Matsui.
Gotta have speed & arm in CF, go with Melky or Garner until Jackson is brought up. Nady in RF.
Use Giambi, Moose & Abreu’s $ to add starting pitching
(CC, Burnett/Sheets)
Lineup:
Hanley SS
Damon 1B
Arod 3B
Manny LF
Matsui DH
Nady RF
Jeter 2B
Posada C
Melky/Garner CF
SP: CC, Wang, Burnett, *Pettite, **Joba
*(Pettite would only want a 1 yr. deal, is a lefty, & is 3 or 4 yrs. younger than Moose. As bad as he has pitched this yr. he is still going to win around 15 games & as a #4 he would eat innings & give you 14-16 wins/not bad.)
**(with Joba as #5 you can skip his turn on off days & fill in with long-man every now & then to keep his innings down. Instead of 5-6 starts a month, he gets about 3.5 starts per month & finishes the yr. at about 150 innings pitched. Right on target.)
Bench: Molina/C, Ranson/IF, JC/OF
Howard is exactly the type of player we want to stay away from. Low BA, Tons of Ks, boom or bust hitter, bad defender.
Give me guys like Loney or Connor Jackson over Howard anyday… those are the types of players this team needs.
Offer a bunch of pitching to Washington for Milledge. Offer them Eric Hacker, Coke, and Kontos for Milledge.
That’s too much.
Then offer Kennedy for Salty.
I would add Cox
Then bam, we have a young C/1B and young 5 Tool OF.
In developement it’s not etched in stone.
And if we could swing Hughes into a a legit young hitter, then the rebuilding would be complete. With Jackson coming up and Romine/Montero with fast-moving potential in Low A, we will be set.
Unless that name is James Looney or Matt Laporta I wouldn’t do it. This season the Yankees have to scout other teams young players and ask themselves to them are thier players better than ours then see if they can deal prospect for prospect.
Do it Cashman get creative!!!
It’d be better than what they’ve been doing since 01′
The way this current team is constructed is fundamentally flawed. Baseball players peak years are between there age 27-33 seasons; right now the only starter the yankees have who fit that bill is Cano–and he seems to be going backwards. The way Cashman put this team togeter was baesd upon the assumption that all of the players would stay healthy and have their normal statistical seasons and they would make the playoffs. Unfortunately, some player got hurt (Posada and Matsui–not to mention Damon, Arod missing time), some players had bad years (jeter), and the young “Talent” on the team (Cano and Melky)were just plain awful. This is the way Cashman has worked in recent years and I think this is how he will approach the offseason–sign steady consistant low risk, but big money, stars while waiting for the talent in the minors to mature.
“One thing I do think we will see. The end of the, “all star at every position†concept.”
I hope so – the Yanks of the 90s certainly did not have an “all star” team.
“Either way stop playing with his role. Pick one of the other for a while and let him be. Let him develop.”
He was developing into an Ace starter, in case you missed it. If it wasn’t for that Shoulder injury he’d be sitting at 130 IP right now and we’d all be talking about him for Cy Young next season. Put him in the pen til memorial day next year then start him the rest of the way end of story he’s a starter.
And btw, speaking of Joba, instead of using him in the bullpen next year to begin the season because of his innings limits, why not just defer his Spring Training by a month?
Prepare him to start but shut him down through March 15th or April 1st and then begin the process of extending him, as they do with every other pitcher in Spring Training, in the minors.
By June 1st, he’d be ready to pitch in the rotation every five days through the season’s end without exceeding 150 innings.
AA is a long way from the majors Brandon. Dunn won’t see NY for awhile, if at all.
I know Micheal Dunn throws heat is younger and has a nastier slider. IDK it depends SJ.
Offer a bunch of pitching to Washington for Milledge. Offer them Eric Hacker, Coke, and Kontos for Milledge.
That’s too much.
In too much I meant adding Coke at his lowest, it reeks of the first Marte deal.
it’s a no brainer to use joba as the #5 in the regular season and then as the #3 in the playoffs.
Sabathia
Burnett
Wang
Mussina/Pettitte
Joba
Rivera
Marte
Melancon
Sanchez
Bruney
Veras
Aceves/Giese
Nice.
LLIME, BA is one of the most overrated and irrelevant statistics in baseball.
The two statistics that measure a player’s potential are his .OBA and his slugging percentage.
Whether he hits his way, or walks his way, on base is irrelevant. And when he does get on base is it to 2nd, 3rd, or for a homerun?
Howard WALKS, a lot. His OBA is down this year but it’s been .400 or better the two previous seasons. And by year’s end, he’ll probably have walked close to 100 times.
His strike-outs are a problem, I concede. But an out is an out. Especially when you consider he’s only grounded into 9 DPs, and with RISP, his .BA is .303 this year.
I didn’t miss it Al. I also didn’t miss that he broke down and missed 5 weeks. Which basically ended the Yankees season.
So, one could argue, their “plan” for Joba didn’t work.
Moving guys back and forth from the ‘pen to the rotation tends not to be a smart thing to do.
A lot of starting pitching is being able to make starts. If you can’t make them, regardless of your stuff, its hard to become dependable.
Its why Joba shouldn’t get bounced back and forth next year. Put him in one spot (preferably) and keep him there.
If we gave the Pirates Coke along with Tabata, Ohlendorf, and McCutchen then Cashman might as well go hide in a cave. Thank god Pirates management decided to take Karstens instead because they wanted immediate help in the rotation. Either way that trade was brainless but letting a young lefty reliever as well would have made it indefensible. It’s bad enough we sold low on Tabata.
Nady is a nice player but he is what he is, a 30 yr old player putting up career numbers on a bad team in the NL. He’ll hit for some power and hit .280 but he’ll strike out 130 times and have a low OBP. I like Marte a lot though.
t-rock that is so true, could you imagine the Pirates pimping Coke in Pittsburgh and then everyone here saying crap not only did they get Tabata ! but a LH reliever who is hitting 96 mph ! …Yeh alot of luck in Coke not being in that deal.
“but a LH reliever who is hitting 96 mph”
Thought you wised up and recognized the gun number as BS???
He couldn’t fire it out of a cannon at 96.
“I didn’t miss it Al. I also didn’t miss that he broke down and missed 5 weeks. Which basically ended the Yankees season.
So, one could argue, their “plan†for Joba didn’t work.”
Pitchers get hurt no matter what role they are in, also he was throwing significantly less hard as a starter. As a reliever he regularly hit 99MPH and cruised at 97 with his fastball. In the rotation he topped out at 98 MPH and his fastball was most 95-96, so this logic that he was overthrowing or over did it in the rotation is a bit ridiculous.
Here’s the lineup & rotation I’d like to see in 2009:
Lineup:
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Votto 1B
Arod 3B
Damon LF
Matsui DH
Nady RF
Victorino CF
Cano 2B
Posada C
Rotation:
Sabathia
Burnett
Wang
Moose
Joba
Freakin’ Twins! You have to win the Liriano/Duckworth battles.
“Damon LF
Jeter SS
Votto 1B
Arod 3B
Damon LF
Matsui DH
Nady RF
Victorino CF
Cano 2B
Posada C”
How are the Yanks going to get Votto and Victorino?
“How are the Yanks going to get Votto and Victorino?”
Well – I’d start with Hughes for Votto…
Victorino? We need to get creative there.
How could the Yankees acquire either?
Why would the Phillies want to relinquish Victorino?
More puzzling still, now that the Reds have shed Junior and Dunn, how could they trade Votto?
Anyway, A-Jax is probably the Yankees CF in 2010.
Victorino is an offensive liability in a corner outfield position b/c he doesn’t hit for power.
#9, Victorino is either a leadoff or #2 hitter. why would he bat 7th and Posada would bat 9th??
How would the Yankees get “The Flying Hawiian”? I like that move. Or Votto. What are the proposed moves?
Hughes for Votto?
Kennedy and Edwar for Victorino?
How would the Yankees get “The Flying Hawiian� I like that move. Or Votto. What are the proposed moves?
sssshhhhhssshhhh…(this is the part when we hear bye bye Hughes and Cano)
I’d do Hughes for Votto… Votto is exactly the type of player we need.
“#9, Victorino is either a leadoff or #2 hitter.”
Yah – meant to put Victorino in leadoff spot but figure Girardi would keep Damon there – so blame Girardi for the lineup
Yes, the Phillies did wanted to deal Victorino before because the emergence of Jayson Werth as an everyday player and Victorino was doing bad. Now the Jenkins is out and back to his form, Victorino is staying in Phillie.
Be back later I need some air.
“Kennedy and Edwar for Victorino?”
The philles aren’t that stupid.. I don’t think.
Now that*
Guys, Ian Kennedy has NO value especially for a good young player like Victorino.
There is a reason that every trade proposal on this board starts with Kennedy… because he isin’t any good.
Hey, let’s not give up on Ian Kennedy just yet.
Cliff Lee sucked last year, as did Ervin Santana.
Does Alfredo Aceves really have better stuff than Kennedy?
The problem is the Yankees can’t trade him now; his value has plummeted.
That doesn’t mean, however, he may not be a productive starter in their rotation some day.
The mistake was entrusting him with a rotation spot after he’d proved so little. He’s only been a professional for two seasons. We may see him again.
I read the last thread to late to post it there for anyone to read. Sorry it’s off topic but:
I have my FDNY 09-11-01 Tshirt on today. I pull it out once a year and wear it to work. (an office on St John in the Virgin Islands) There was a small procession this morning in downtown Cruz Bay commemorating the victims. Even people form here lost relatives and friends that day.
G. Love
September 11th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
At 1b I try to trade for a guy like Ryan Shealy who is now blocked in the KC system. He’s 29, out of options, has had some monster seasons in AAA, played in the majors and should be hungry to prove himself. He’s also RH power. I bet we could get him for Edwar at the end of the day.
_______________________________________________________
Exactly what does Shealey have to offer? He had his best years playing in cities in the Rockies, but, can’t beat out guys like Billy Butler and Ross Gload. Great choice to play first base, hu? I’d rather have Ross Gload, who can actually play the refense and hit major league pitching.
_____________________________________________________
In my plan we keep Hughes, Ajax, etc for now. We just spend money on top starting pitching and Manny.
______________________________________________________
Where would Ramirez play? He couldn’t handle defense anywhere outside of Boston, IF HE FELT LIKE IT.
________________________________________________________
I also make an sincere emphasis to get bench players like Millar, Stairs — not them exactly, but guys who have some fire in their belly.
__________________________________________________
What fire in hi belly has Matt Stairs ever shown? There’s two things in his belly….beer and sandwiches. And Millar? When did making up BS slogans equate to showing fire? Cowgirl up, Glove Lover.
I don’t agree with the “Don’t bring back Andy Pettitte” sentiment. Remember last year – when virtually no one wanted Mike Mussina back for another year? He was presumably done. Instead, some more time for recovery from his hamstring injury and some adjustments, and you have the most effective pitcher on the Yankees staff this season.
Andy lost a lot of last winter and this spring training with distractions from the HGH mess and Clemens affair. I’m not surprised that he looks out of gas now. Despite that, some good fielding and hitting behind him, this isn’t such a bad season.
Whether to bring both Mussina and Pettitte back next year is an open question. It depends a lot on who they can get in this offseason. But we need to remember that Moose is 4 years older than Andy. This may have been his last hurrah. It may make more sense to keep Andy instead and have another left hander.
***great choice to play 1B, huh?*** ***defense = defense***
***what fire in his belly***
“What fire in hi belly has Matt Stairs ever shown? There’s two things in his belly….beer and sandwiches.”
LOL FUNNY!!!!
Fredo Corleone
September 11th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Brandon:
I agree Salty’s value may be low, but it ain’t lower than Kennedy’s. Why would they sell low on him anyway?
If this is the best Texas can do, they’ll deal Laird and let Salty build himself back up in AAA.
________________________________________________
Not many teams are looking for .225 hitting catcher/1B men who can’t play defense at either position.
Matt Stairs and ARod on same team… hmmmmm…
Kill Schilling –
I hope they get a 1B who can play D better than Howard. Howard may be better than Giambi in the field but thats not saying much. At the plate he’d look better with the RF fence in YS than anywhere else. He has some pop but he also K’s a lot. But I agree w/SJ the Phils would (should) make the effort to keep him.
Tiexiera would be great to acquire. But plan B (IMO) should be a defensive upgrade from Giambi who can hit around .300 and whose OBP can be closer to .400. The ability to hit 20+HR would be good to have, 30HR would be better but not imperative as long as they’re consistent enough in other important areas. Sure, Giambi’s potential to bop 40HRs is potentially crowd-pleasing, but that’s all he has going for him. Besides, I don’t think the ’98 Yanks had any one player hit more than 30HRs.
I think Matsui or Posada would be better than Giambi at 1B (defensively & offensively) if either one was converted to the position full time. They’re both certainly not an ideal option and neither has little experience paying the position, but they’re still an upgrade from Giambi.
I’ve had a few conversations with a friend who, like me, has played a fair share of 1B albeit in high school or in softball. Even at our feeble level of play, we can clearly see it’s not the kind of position just any ol’ schmuck can play at the highest level. Gary Sheffield is a prime example. We agree that a guy who’s come up through the ranks at the position is better suited to the position than a converted C or OF.
That being said, Matsui or Posada would still be better than Giambi or Sheffield. At least I think they’d put the necessary effort in. The Yanks should look for better, but they could be a workable be a last resort. Would they be better in the field than Howard? Maybe … couldn’t tell you. But they wouldn’t strike out as much.
Of course a guy like Sheffield would be the best player in the league at our level of play (he better be) but we’re not being paid to play like Tiexiera, Mattingly, Tino Martinez etc.
Anyone remember how many home-grown starting pitchers we had in the rotation from 1995-2001?
1, I think – Andy Pettitte.
Cone, Wells, Key, Clemens, McDowell, Rogers, El Duque, etc. etc. all FA or acquired via trade.
There’s something to be said for growing your own, sure, but there’s nothing like stocking your shelves with the stuff that guarantees – veteran starters with experience.
CC and Burnett together would be an impressive haul. I’m all for it.
“There’s something to be said for growing your own”
Yes there certainly is and part of having good home grown talent is to not only develope them for your major league team but equally important is to have them so you can got out and trade them for a quality major league player that your team needs at a certain position.
My biggest desire is to have the scouting department, front offices shaken up and rebuilt by Gene Michael and perhaps someone like Buck Showalter. I do not like what I have seen from Cashman over the past three years and Oppenheimer is less than stellar. I feel that Hank and Hal know enough what they do not know and would listen to these folks about who to acquire and what to develop.
It’s just been disappointing move after disappointing move and there needs to be new leadership.
What young pitcher (at any level – and don’t give me guys like Edwar Ramirez or Phil Coke) is everyone here willing to part with for an “impact” player trade?
Mine:
Ian Kennedy
Humberto Sanchez
Dellin Betances
Mr Labrum –
I think the approach was exactly that from ’01-’07 but hired guns like Kevin Brown, Jeff Weaver, Big Unit, Javier Vazquez, Jarte Wright and Carl Pavano have become a collective learning experience. There isn;t much out there. A couple guys worth investing serious $ in and that’s it.
The rest are going to be overpaid for being a little above average.
We can speculate what moves we think or would like to see happen but we’re not privvy to what the grand scheme of things will be.
Too many things need to happen by clearing space on the 40-man roster to begin with. As a rule of thumb one move counters another move if indicators are to be used in what’s to follow.
In all likelihood, Cashman will waste no time in making moves so not to be beaten to the punch with what he wants.
He will want to enter spring training with the 40-man roster set and determine what 25 players will be taken to open the season. He won’t be looking for scrap heap types to shake out during the final week in March. The team will jell together during the month of March and go from there.
I remember Torre’s affinity for ‘veteran guys with experience’ … like Al Leiter in his final two years?
I think Gene Michael was in Japan scouting recently.
One thing has to stop now and it’s people suggesting the Yanks sign Manny. He’s a great hitter, but he’s going to be 37, and is disruptive. Plus he’s a RedSox, getting Damon was bad enough, and he’s a nice guy. We don’t need anymore of Boston castoffs.
when the red sox imploded in 2006, they had almost the same identical record on this day in 2006 as the yankees have to day.
what the red sox did was go out and sign matsuzaka, drew, and lugo while continuing to develop their farm system.
they spent a huge amount of money, and it paid off last year and this year and will continue to pay off for years to come. everything didn’t work , but enough did.
the yankees need to do likewise.
“We don’t need anymore of Boston castoffs.”
Wade Boggs and Roger Clemens seemed to work out okay; not to mention Babe Ruth.
“One thing has to stop now and it’s people suggesting the Yanks sign Manny.”
I don’t think the Yankees will consider Manny. Too old and too much – Yanks will move to get younger and at a lower price. I can see them spending $$ on pitching but the days of the Giambi type deals are over.
In a trade, I’d be willing to part with anyone not named Joba.
Now, guys like Hughes, Betances, and De La Rosa are more untouchable than guys like Kennedy, McAllister, Kontos etc. but I’d be willing to trade any of them for the right price. But a lot of the guys below AA don’t have much value as a singular piece a in a trade, it would have to be a throw in.
For example, nobody is trading Votto or Connor Jackson for Betances. They would want some ML pieces and take Betances as a 3rd player in a deal.
I would hope Cashman takes this stance too and explores deals for anyone. Joba is the only untouchable.
when thinking about next year, first of all pay no attention to anyone who was optimistic about cashman’s plan for this year.
Typical GB7 response
“You want me on that wall. You need me on that wall!”
Do us a favor Col. Jessup and jump off the wall.
If you knew anything about Shealy you know he had no chance to beat out Gload or anyone because he had an injured hamstring this season.
After getting healthy his offensive production went back to his normal stats with power from the right side and a decent glove at 1b something our team is lacking.
Is he a star? Who knows, but at least I have ideas. All you do is pick fights with people on here, you moron.
And if you actually passed reading comprehension in grade school you’d realize I wanted to sign Manny as primary DH. Let him play with play-doh in the clubhouse in between at bats for all I care. If he hits .300, 30 homers and drives in 120 in this lineup and protects Arod we’re a better team next year.
But you know better. We all bow to you Airborne.
Warmest regards,
G. Love
SJ at 3:18 speaks my mind regarding the staff and says it better than I could, so all I can add on that topic is, “Hear, hear!”
Regarding position players I have strong feelings about decent play at 1B, not just because I was spoiled by Donnie and Tino but because I think a well-played 1B makes more difference than most people realize. I like Teixeira better than some here and would like to see FO go after him or some other ACTUAL 1B, not try to get by with an imposter for another year. Please — just dump old used-up DH’s until you make a space.
And my other obsession is with the bench. Grossly neglected area, needs to be completely re-planted — this time with guys who can actually play defense AND do some situational hitting, giving us a bunt, a sac fly, a 17-hop grounder as needed. Does anyone else remember when ‘utility man’ had an actual meaning quite different from ‘placeholder’?
Would love someone’s takeon the below article about Kevin Long going tpo spend some time early with Cano and revamping his entire swing. brandon no comments as I know you are not a fan of Long to begin with but I found these comments very very interesting
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy
that is very encouraging gayle and i pray it works
gayle,
It sounds like they let Cano have a shot at doing it his way, which, admittedly had brought him success in the past. Now, they’ll get at him. I hope that it works out.
pat
September 11th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
“We don’t need anymore of Boston castoffs.â€
Wade Boggs and Roger Clemens seemed to work out okay; not to mention Babe Ruth.
______________________________________________
almost the entire 1920s Yankee pitching staff was from the Boston Red Sox (Hoyt (HOF), Pennock (HOF), Sam Jones (229 career wins), Ruffing (HOF) and Carl Mays (210 wins), along with 3 other position players (Joe Dugan, Catcher Wally Schang (near career .300 hitter) and Ruth. Did anybody memtion Sparky Lyle?
“Would love someone’s takeon the below article about Kevin Long going tpo spend some time early with Cano and revamping his entire swing”
gayle-
i would like to see long fired immediately.
he has done nothing to turn arod into a complete hitter.long was not responsible for last year’s team production. that was on torre’s and mattingly’s watch with long having a very minor role.
cano can swing the bat . leave his swing alone.
situationally, yes ,he could be taught some things about getting into a hitters count and some techniques for putting the ball in play at will( something long doesn’t teach. see arod for example).
but overall, if long messes with cano, that’ll be the last we see of the good cano. i believe cano will snap out of this on his own.
“How are the Yanks going to get Votto and Victorino?”
What I want to know is how is Damon going to bat in two spots in the same lineup.
Totally unrelated to the thread, but a funny story. This is told to me from a co-worker, so this isn’t first hand knowledge and I wasn’t there to witness it so unknown as to how truthful it is.
Have a guy who works in my office who is from LA. He goes back there from time to time for business and over the weekend/earlier this week he was at the Westin. While there the plumbing on his sink broke, so he went down to the bar to get some drinks.
Now, my coworker is paralyzed. He is in a wheelchair. However, he does look like Eric Estrada. So he is down in the bar talking to some ladies at a table and hears this guy at the bar just being an incredibly loud and obnoxious a-hole- just cursing and making crude comments to everyone. My coworker tells him to knock it off and not be so loud. Apparently the guy makes some sort of snide response back to him.
My coworker then asks him, in spanish, if he speaks spanish. He says yes, so he tells the guy at the bar to shut the f*** up or he is going to wheel himself over to the bar and knock him on his ass. At that point the guy at the bar jumps from the bar stool and gets in my coworkers face, they start shoving each other (remember, my coworker is paralyzed from the waist down) and my coworker grabs ahold of the guy around the neck until they fight is quickly broken up.
A bunch of people come over and apologize and escort the guy from the bar out of there. Turns out, it was our very own New York Yankees. The guy at the bar? Later identified as one Sidney Ponson.
Rusty good job on posting something that no one can confirm,makes someone look bad and has no collaboration but some guy and in fact i dont find the story funny at all
rustyjohn-
funny story?
hmmm, if that story is true, ponson should be suspended immediately.
What about a rotation of
Wang
Pettitte
Joba
Hughes
Kennedy
Funny?
As in ‘ha-ha’?
Not…
KC has had shealey since 2006. what happened in those years if he was so good? They picked up Gload because they realized that Shealy was a product of Rocky Mountain High.
You see, to be hung up on my name. Odd, though that you keep mentioning the fictional name of a Marine Colonel. You do realize that there is a difference between fact and fiction, don’t you? Personally, I think you live in Fantasy World.
… but it’s just a story until someone else backs it up .
pete could just ask ponson of course.
but somehow ,i don’t think that’s going to happen.
ok, i’ll bite, why do you use greenberet7 as a username?
“If he hits .300, 30 homers and drives in 120 in this lineup and protects Arod we’re a better team next year.”
I think A-Rod should be the one doing the protecting if we signed Manny. If I were the opposing manager, I’d walk Manny every time to get to A-Rod given how he’s batted in clutch spots this year.
From what I was told everyone else who was there from the organization was very apologetic and offered him tickets to the next day’s game.
Randy,
Are you saying that Alex lied when he specifically said that Long helped him with his swing?
Are you also saying that Carlos Penal lied when he specifically said that Kevin Long helped him with his swing?
Would you like for Long to put eye black under his eyes so he can have the look of a goon that automatically makes players better? lmao
Your co-worker must be some type of moron if he’s paralyzed and is threatening to knock somebody down.
What about somebody like Chad Tracy for 1st next year? Diamondbacks have no need for him with Jackson and Reynolds. Plus he’s younger than the great Ryan Shealy.
I would trade Hughes for James Loney
LHP Mike Dunn draws notice for his plus slider, but his other offerings aren’t very good. His fastball is average, sitting in the high 80′s and occasionally hitting 92-93. Dunn doesn’t really work off his fastball like most pitchers, instead preferring to throw sliders for strikes one and two. He also throws a cutter and change but doesn’t use them much. However, he came to pitching late and may have a lot of improvement left. He dominated Low-A Charleston last year with his two-pitch combination, but his fastball is nowhere near good enough for that to keep working as a starter. Dunn will still be given a shot at the rotation for the next year or two, but he’ll likely move to the bullpen down the line, where his slider could become a big asset.
What He Will Become: Jon Coutlangus, also a lefthanded 6’1″ 185 converted outfielder, offers some precedent, as his stuff is similar as well.
this is a scouting report on dunn.
ramagnetic-
save the indignation.
aren’t you are one of those people who thought cashman had a good plan? how do like that plan now?
arod can’t hit situationally. long has clearly not taught him how to put the ball in play at will.
arod hasn’t done anything that he didn’t do before he met long.
arod is a brain dead situational hitter and long enables him.
is that clear enough for you or do you need to know what it means to put a ball in play at will?
Wilson, There’s a player I wish the Yanks could get. I’m still on the fence about giving up on Phil however. Think the dodgers would take cano? They do need a 2b with kent being old, and Cano has had success working with Torre’s staff. But then who plays second…..
Just catching up. Lots of good ideas! The best of which is Victorino, lol. Good defender, benefits offensively because of home park.
Hughes not going anywhere this offseason.
Kennedy? Maybe he pitched just crappy enough yesterday because he wants to kill his trade value.
So everyone agrees Joba should start in the rotation when the season opens?
Shane Victorino would be a good fit in CF for 2009. Send Melky and Kennedy to the Phillies.
Give the Captain a break. He has spent his entire career (12 years) playing an extra month every single season. That’s another full year of baseball mileage on his odometer, and an intense one at that.
I think a lot of these guys are just run down from playing extra baseball every year. Of course, there’s also the fact that we have ZERO starting pitching on this team. ZERO. You can’t win without starting pitching. Let’s take a page from the ’06 Sawx and use the off-season to rest and regroup — and ready the real Yankee rotation of the future:
Sabathia
Chamberlain
Wang
Hughes
Kennedy/Aceves/Sanchez/pupu platter
Yes, I’m advocating that we punt both Mussina and Pettitte.
Tom,
Heard Rosenthal on the radio today. Colin was asking him if the Dodgers re-sign Manny.
He said that it depends on what direction they go. They could sign CC, trade for Cano, and something else. I forgot what it was because at that point I nearly drove off the road. But I could see Torre wanting Cano. The question is how badly would he want him?
LA’s perfect for Manny. If he doesn’t sign there, I can’t picture where he’d end up. Who else will pay him? The NL is perfect for his bat, but not his defense.
Anyway, back to Cano. The whispers are there and I won’t be shocked if he has to pack his bags one day soon. I never thought I’d say that.
Cano and Abreu’s defense have killed my soul this season.
mel-
agree joba should start , but in the #5 spot as sj previously stated.
Mr. Exceptional :
i totally disagree about the yankees losing the allure.it might be worse to play for other teams and i am not onr for just giving up like you.
you wan’t them to field the same mess as this year?
this team need to be dismantled and rebuilt.start with pitching not finish with it.
no matter what anybody says pitching did the yankees in.they had no # 1 or # 2 almost all year.
the yankees need an ace and 2 solid # 3 pitchers,wang is you’re # 2 and joba # 5.
the players every game saw that the pitching stunk,didn’t trust or respect them like they did with clemmens,wells,cone and so on.
they are old,lazy and ran out of gas.
that’s what happens when you take their drugs from them.
it is now a young mans game.
RustyJohn -
Not a funny story at all.
randyl -
I don’t know, I think you’re being a little hard on Kevin Long. You don’t know whether he’s wanted to get at Cano all along and was told not to. You don’t know how many discussions he has had with him or how much video tape they’ve watched. We’ve heard that Cano has worked with Long all season pretty much to no avail. Perhaps it was an attempt to “fix” Cano doing it Cano’s way, and now they’ll make some adjustments Long’s way.
However, I agree that there are times you shouldn’t mess too much. But Cano does need to change his approach somewhat. He was swinging at everything. (Then again, so was ARod.)
My take? Cano had finally “found it” right after the All-Star break and went on a tear, after working with his Dad. Then he gets hit by a pitch and his swing is affected. He never finds that groove again and the less successful he is, the more into a hopeless abyss he falls. (I know, I sound melodramatic, but you know what I mean). It was an endless, vicious cycle, I believe.
I am encouraged he wants to work on it, aren’t you? And if Long is going to the Dominican, don’t you think Cano’s father is going to have some input there?
And ARod – I believe ARod saw himself as the only hitter in that lineup with consistent power. Giambi has almost as many homeruns, but I still think Alex saw the loss of Jorge and Matsui in that lineup as a red flag. “I have to produce; there’s no one else really here to help me out.” We all know what happens to ARod in that situation. ARod needs another kind of help – a relaxation technique that can become second nature, but more importantly, he needs consistency in the lineup behind him. Giambi had homeruns but was worse than ARod with RISP. We all want ARod to step up in those situations; I believe he tries to hard to do so, and therefore fails. You can get everything right in practice, but you can’t really duplicate the pressure situations.
It’s just been a bummer of a year. Except for Mike Mussina and the bullpen overall, there’s not a lot of good I take from this year.
I actually think the fact tha Phil has not been brought up yet is a sign that Cashman is amenable to shopping him this off-season.
No other reason why Ponnson is starting meaningless games. There is no pressure now.
“It is now a young mans game.”
so how do you explain mussina?
it’s not just as simple as youth rules.
good rules though the trend is younger than it was in the ped heyday.
Randy l -
And how do you explain ARod’s season last year? ARod himself credited Long.
I’m not trying to be argumentative. Just pointing out another way to see things that’s not quite so explosive.
Everything that went wrong this season compounded everything else. I’m not saying you give everyone this season a pass. Everyone this season needs to take a long, hard look at themselves and how they can improve, whether they remain with the Yankees or not.
randy l -
Mussina was successful because he took that good, hard look at himself and figured out what he had to do to be better.
Mel, You’re right about Manny–he belongs in lala land. From what I’ve heard\read about the dodgers they would want him back but their owner is cheap. would the Yanks be willing to take back say a bad contract to get a player like a loney or kemp for Cano? Is one year of Andruw Jones worth getting a young first basemen or cf?
There shouldn’t be any argument over where Joba pitches. He is a starter and should start. If they are so worried about his innings the 5th spot should be his…
doreen-
long does not teach putting the ball in play at will.
there are adjustments that can be made and techniques perfected that will make it highly likely a player will put the ball in play.
arod has no two strike swing.
arod has no move the runner over swing.
arod has no put the ball in play swing to get a runner in from third with less than two outs.
arod can’t bunt.
i’m not being hard on long. actually he might be a good hitting coach in a steroid era where hitters just swing away, but it’s a new era and long just doesn’t get it.
he’s got to go.
randy l,
Did you feel that? I did. Ouch!
I’m a Kevin Long gal. But for whatever reason, the league scouted the Yankees and figured out they have a difficult time putting the ball into play so they just pitch us straight up. So unfortunately he’s the scapegoat.
If the players see that their indifference cost a good guy his job, maybe they’ll care a little more.
Cano was doing so well at laying off the pitches out of the zone, but he’s reverted. He needs to lay off when he has two strikes sometimes to keep the pitchers honest even at the risk of a called strike 3. They’ll keep throwing it in the dirt and he keeps swinging at it.
Alex, ugh, never mind.
Even Nady’s getting on my nerves, but I have hope that the hitting coach can get him more disciplined.
Number one requirement for potential FA. Contact hitters only need apply!
I don’t see how anyone can pencil in Hughes for one of next year’s starter spots. Obviously, forget Kennedy entirely, but I wouldn’t count on Hughes either.
Doreen
September 11th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Randy l -
And how do you explain ARod’s season last year? ARod himself credited Long.
I’m not trying to be argumentative. Just pointing out another way to see things that’s not quite so explosive.
Everything that went wrong this season compounded everything else. I’m not saying you give everyone this season a pass. Everyone this season needs to take a long, hard look at themselves and how they can improve, whether they remain with the Yankees or not.
______________________________________________
Maybe Rodriguez just got lucky in two of the last three years, Doreen. Anybody can be good enough to chalk up a .300 average, 36-40 homers and 120 RBIs a season. Toss in 120 Runs scored, 20 steals and near gold glove defense. NYY needs to find more players with that kind of luck.
In all seriousness, why should it make a difference what inning it is when a player knocks in runs or extends an inning? When they do it on that scale, late innings mean less….but, he still can’t do it without help from 8 other hitters, a starter and a bullpen. Even Jeter needs a little help from time to time.
doreen-
didn’t see your mussina comment.
mussina is a really gifted athlete. i hated him more than any yankee when he refused to pitch inside. to his credit, when given an ultimatum from girardi and eiland he changed and the rest is history.
other players could do the same. changing strategy is easy, and that’s what mussina did. changing mechanics of a gifted player is another thing. in cano’s case ,for example, i wouldn’t touch his full swing mechanics. i’d change his strategy.
“And how do you explain ARod’s season last year? ARod himself credited Long.”
greenberet 7-
alex is an extreme talent who has put up numbers like that before.
also torre and mattingly were there all last year. their influence on all the hitters was significant.
long’s first year alone has been a dismal failure.
“So everyone agrees Joba should start in the rotation when the season opens?”
Would be nice Mel but how do you start him in the rotation and keep him under 150 IP?
Okay, so I’m watching Ron Darling interview Tom Seaver and Johan Santana.
I can’t believe I’m going to type this, but – what were the Yankees thinking?
I do understand what their thinking was, and I don’t think Santana would have made the difference this year all other things being equal, which they would not have been, ARRRRRGHH!
Tom
Taking on Andruw Jones’ contract for the one year to get a Loney or Kemp thrown in, would be awful. Not only is Jones the most overpaid, least productive player, who has gone downhill at an early age, but if we accept a bad contract, that frees up money for the Dodgers to sign CC.
Mel, Cano started his downward slide after the ASB when he started taking pitches. His best numbers are when attacking the 1st and 2nd pitch. He has been hitting nearly .300 since May first.
People get too hung up on getting walks, especially when the batter is hitting #7 or #8. Getting walks only helps when the guys hitting behind him can hit.
If our team has scored fewer than 4 runs in some 75 games this year, having Santana might not have made enough of a difference in our division.
Even though Pettitte wants to come back, I’d tell him go home, stay in shape and off the juice and maybe we’ll call you up for a mid June appearance, if needed. He won’t sign elsewhere, and has clearly faded the last two months.
If we can just sign two quality FA pitchers, then we have the minor league pitching to trade for young athletic position players.
“Okay, so I’m watching Ron Darling interview Tom Seaver and Johan Santana.
I can’t believe I’m going to type this, but – what were the Yankees thinking?
I do understand what their thinking was, and I don’t think Santana would have made the difference this year all other things being equal, which they would not have been, ARRRRRGHH!”
Doreen- Don’t watch SNY its bad for your health, all they do is pat themselves on the back and show clips from 86. Have no fear CC is better than Johan and with any luck he’ll be a Yankee within the next 3 months.
Yankee Trader, Very true on the CC angle. I was assuming (whats that old saying about assume?) that getting jones off the books would enable La. to resign Manny and Furical. I do agree with what you said.
Al from BK -
I am literally laughing out loud at that!
But I was a huge Tom Seaver fan growing up. (Dirty secret – I started out as a Mets fan, till I lost interest in all sports once my first daughter was born)
Right now they’re showing a replay of the first game played after 9/11. It’s pretty moving, even if it is the Mets.
What time does Scranton play? Or do they play at all tonight?
Has anybody from the front office said that 200mil. is where the yanks are going to at next year? or are they trying to reduce payroll. They have what around 80mil comming off the books this year? Would it be better for the yanks to reduce payroll\luxury tax so other teams to get the yanks money?
“Al from BK -
I am literally laughing out loud at that!
But I was a huge Tom Seaver fan growing up. (Dirty secret – I started out as a Mets fan, till I lost interest in all sports once my first daughter was born)
Right now they’re showing a replay of the first game played after 9/11. It’s pretty moving, even if it is the Mets.”
I agree. On a day like today I can reflect on those times with a neutral sense, however the world series games were more emotional in my opinion. Nothing beats 2 walk offs in a row in the WS.
“What time does Scranton play? Or do they play at all tonight?”
Its going on right now against Durham Katie.
“Has anybody from the front office said that 200mil. is where the yanks are going to at next year? or are they trying to reduce payroll. They have what around 80mil comming off the books this year? Would it be better for the yanks to reduce payroll\luxury tax so other teams to get the yanks money?”
Tom I do believe that the Yanks will reduce payroll. Since they are likely to drop 75-80 million in payroll this off-season unless they sign CC, Tex and another huge FA they should be well under 200 million.
Well even if the yankees do sign cc and tex to 20 mil each they will save 35-40mil next year.
Wilson : won’t work.joba,hughes,kennedy are all on pitch limits,pettitte needs to go.
the yankees need a true ace and a very solid young number 2 pitcher,an equal to wang then they can worry about the 4th and 5th spot,maybe mussina and joba to finish it off.
the problem with the yankees is that every teams ace is as good or better than wang and joba and their 3-5 pitchers are better than the yankees 3-5.too make it short the yankees have terrible pitching and it needs to be on the top 5 in baseball to win it all for the most part.
pettitte,ponson,rasner,hughes,kennedy,igawa are all at about a 5 era or better.
the yankees should try to sign sabathia and sheets.if they can’t sign two pitchers try to trade for a peavey type pitcher,give up cano,kennedy and ajax.
the red sox were smart and realized that a position player can easily be replaced and got over the hump by building a good,deep pitching staff and bullpen with a lot of position players with high obp.very simple formula.you risk it by playing a lot of rookies.the yankees are not good at doing that.they are good at mixing mostly veterans with the right mix of kids.
sign sabathia,sheets or trade for peavey if possible.
a rotation of sabathia,peavey/sheets,wang,mussina,joba while getting a better center fielder,first baseman will do the trick.
they should trade hughes for a young established center fielder,trade cano for a young established pitcher,trade a bunch of prospects for a first baseman,let abraeu go,put nady in right field even if prospect have to be added to get it done,package matsui and prospects for a catcher,dh or corner outfielder.
most of these minor leaguers will not make it.the yankees have the money,the prospects and the new stadium.it will take a lot of work but it can be done.
Al from BK -
There was nothing more uplifting than those WS games.
“the yankees should try to sign sabathia and sheets.if they can’t sign two pitchers try to trade for a peavey type pitcher,give up cano,kennedy and ajax.”
Sheets is due for an injury and I’m skeptical if his stuff would translate to the AL. What should happen is sign CC for 20 Million a year and Burnett for 13-15 Mil a year problem solved. Yes I know Burnett has an injury history, however he has pitched and dominated in the AL East.
Al,
Joba would be put in the bullpen after the bulk of his innings were achieved. I don’t prefer the other method because an injury will retard the progression as it did this year.
GB7,
I’m not talking about walks. I’m saying that Cano’s being fed a steady diet of breaking balls when he reaches 2 strikes. And he gobbles them up like Skittles!
Sheets should stay in the NL. He is injured at least 2 times a season…
a 15-1 run, combined with a 6-11 Boston stretch, would give a nice mathematical demonstration to the kiddies on the difference between a 0.0 and 0.1 % chance of making the playoffs.
“Al,
Joba would be put in the bullpen after the bulk of his innings were achieved. I don’t prefer the other method because an injury will retard the progression as it did this year.”
I suppose your right. This unfortunately means the Yanks need to bring back one of Moose/Pettitte and sign 2 FA’s to make up for the loss of Joba from the rotation in August.
Why don’t the Yankees send Joba to play winter ball? That could help with his innings for next year..
I like that Cano is going to work with Long on his swing in the off season. No different than a pitching coach fine tuning a pitchers mechanics and getting him more break or velocity on pitches. Trying to tweak things in season usually leaves a guy in between and drifting back and forth between good and bad habits. Working on the new approach off season will give him the time to set the muscle memory he needs to be effective.
When A-Rod went from the Mariners to the Rangers, Jaramillo re-made his whole swing. He made him a back foot hitter so he let the ball travel further in the zone and he had more time to react to it. In Fall 2006 and Winter 2007, Long got him back to that because when he struggled in 2006 he was going back to reaching for the ball rather than letting the ball come to him.
A hitting coach can tune up mechanics but they can’t teach instinct. What the good ones do is set up the mechanics to match instincts rather than try and change them.
With a farm system virtually stripped of talent and opening a new ballpark, it shouldn’t be a suprise if Manny Ramirez lands with the Mets.
The Wilpons will supply the cash and Minaya will talk turkey with Scott Boras.
“Why don’t the Yankees send Joba to play winter ball? That could help with his innings for next year..”
I agree Katie. Unfortunately it seems like the Yanks are not going to do that, very silly decision.
SJ44, are you saying that because Phil struggled, he now shouldn’t be given any chance at all? He is all of 22 and he didn’t even pitch past April because of injuries. He’s now fully healthy (or so it appears) and just pitched a brilliant game in the AAA playoffs. I think the time in AAA will only help because he never should have been called up in April 2007 – he’s getting that development time now -, but to imply that the youth movement is wrong because he struggled is wrong, IMO. I’m no Ian fan because of his attitude, but now we should completely give up on him as well? How are the Yankees supposed to develop young players if you want to give up on them so quickly? Overreacting by ripping apart the organization after one bad year would be a HUGE mistake IMO.
Hughes is not being dealt – I still don’t get why everyone wants him gone and why everyone thinks he will be gone.
NY Times article on Kevin Long and hitting from today.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09.....ref=sports
mel
September 11th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
GB7,
I’m not talking about walks. I’m saying that Cano’s being fed a steady diet of breaking balls when he reaches 2 strikes. And he gobbles them up like Skittles!
__________________________________________________
Mel, i was referring to Cano being told to be more patient at the plate. I’ve seen his attempts to be patient and he ends up 0-2. I’d hate to see how the people would be talking about Mattingly’s lack of walks. He averaged 50 walks a year. That’s less than Jeter, who’s not exactly a walking man. It took him three full seasons to reach 50 walks in a season and untill ’93 and ’94 to reach 60. Cano’s best chances are early, and, they’ve tried to remove the agressiveness. Yogi Berra was another that walked seldom. Some hitters are just naturally agressive and Cano is one of those. However, if you look through the numbers this season, there are only about 3 hitters that have 100 walks. Walks have dropped enormously this year. Look at Giambi’s, Abreu’s and Rodriguez’ walk totals. They walk 90-100 times every year. All three are well below that. Youkilis, “The Greek God Of Walks” is barely over 50 walks.
“Hughes is not being dealt – I still don’t get why everyone wants him gone and why everyone thinks he will be gone.”
Likely because everyone is bitter that the guy we held out of the Santana deal was both injured and ineffective this season. Also a lot of people are eager to trade this guy before he loses all value whatsoever.
i think garza is pitching friday and shields is pitching on saturday