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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Hughes en route to New York

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 13, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees have summoned Phil Hughes to New York according to Chad Jennings. He would not be able to pitch until Wednesday at the earliest, which is when they would need somebody because of the rainout.

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Bobby Abreu would like to return next season. This notebook by Jake Thomases also has some updates on Derek Jeter and Andy Pettitte.

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72 Responses to “Hughes en route to New York”

  1. raymagnetic September 13th, 2008 at 3:25 am

    Looks like I was right when I said Hughes would be up if Scraton won their playoffs. good for phil.

  2. raymagnetic September 13th, 2008 at 3:26 am

    Scranton is what I meant to say.

  3. raymagnetic September 13th, 2008 at 3:39 am

    Also since I didnt feel like posting in the previous thread. There’s nothing wrong with an advisor board as long as Cashman has the last word.

    Different business but Berry Gordy conducted focus groups for Motown to decide between which songs to put out as singles. Of course Gordy had the last word when it came to what to put out but there’s a reason why Motown was number one.

  4. Dan September 13th, 2008 at 3:45 am

    I don’t even get the point of bringing him up what if he fails it’s just going to be another setback wait until next year with him.

  5. populoso September 13th, 2008 at 3:48 am

    I would like Bobby Abreu not to return.

  6. Gil L September 13th, 2008 at 4:53 am

    cashman’ future

    hank & hal seem to be much more media-conscious than their dad. i think they are trying to push cashman out the door while appearing as if it was his decision, much like the bogus torre extention offer.

    hopefully it worksand he goes. i don’t care about the media fallout. let all the teflon-cashman apologists whine in unison.

    i would love for him to take the nationals job, where his ineptitude will be exposed. on that budget you can’t just stuff a 46-million mistake in aaa (igawa)…

  7. TKinDC September 13th, 2008 at 7:36 am

    “hank & hal seem to be much more media-conscious than their dad.”

    I think Hank is more media-unconscious.

    Just based on a small sample, there is no use to listening to what Hank tells the media. Things that he spouts off about tend to not matter or not happen.

    Apparently, Hal is much more involved, with Girardi mentioning on the FAN yesterday that he has roughly weekly meetings with Cash and Hal. Meanwhile, Hank has been AWOL, attending only 2 games at the stadium this year.

    Cash is going to stick around, imo, because his plan to remake the Yanks is reaching its most important phase with all the money coming off the books from George S’s impulse purchases. Sure Cash has made mistakes, but I’d give him 2 years to see if he can make the moves to return the team to the top of the heap.

  8. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 7:59 am

    I can understand that people have differing opinions on how Brian Cashman does his job. It’s a results-oriented position, and this year the results were particularly unsatisfactory.

    However, what I fail to understand, and what I will always fail to understand, is how people can wish another human being such ill will as to hope that he either loses his job or experiences failure in his next one.

    Change is difficult and does not occur overnight. Brian Cashman has set a different course, and no, the fruit has not yet been borne. How could it be? There’s still the deadweight of guaranteed contracts to underperforming veterans. It’s a gradual process that takes a lot of time. If this was not a NY franchise, specifically the Yankees, the front office would not have even given lip service to trying to continue to win throughtout the transition, or rebuilding. Cashman gambled on this offense and the offense let him and the team and the fans and themselves down.

    I think it would only be fair to let Cashman see it through for another year or two – those two years will see a lot of people leaving the team. Let’s see what moves he makes this off-season.

    I think Hank says a lot of things without thinking them through. And unless the Yankees have an heir apparent in mind, they’d be ill-advised to push Cashman out the door. Be careful what you wish for.

  9. bruce September 13th, 2008 at 8:02 am

    i don’t know how cashman would do with an 80 or 100 million dollar payroll but in the yankees system the money is there so you can’t fault him.

    it is very strange for the yankees to do no wrong a few years ago to being in total caos and switching spots with the red sox who can do no wrong now.

    the key is developing players and the yankees i believe are right there.they do need a lot more position players but they are in ok shape with ajax,montero,romine,cervelli but need a lot more.

    the red sox have pedroia as a lock and not much more.

    ells,lowrie and so on have a ways to go.the red sox learned that a position player like hanley ramirez can be replaced but pitchers like becket and dice-k are going to take you to the promiseland.they also realized that you always take a proven player like becket over guys like hanley,hughes especially with becket being around 25 yrs old at the time of the trade.

    if you’re farm system is developed properly you can make a few trades to build a good club without depleting the system.

    the farm system should be used first to bring the missing pieces in through trades and second to develope players.

    pitching trumps everything.the yankees are in a good position because they have the money,an ok farm system and a new stadium and absolutely need to capitalize on the opportunity.

    they have wang and joba as locks but need 3 more pitchers.they should trade cano and prospects for a good,young established pitcher like a peavey or volquez,sign an ace like sabathia.now you they are feared with sabathia,peavey,wang,joba,mussina,only using those 5 as an example.

    trade more prospects for a center fielder and first baseman.

    i don’t think they are as far off as they or everybody else thinks.they were close to the red sox at one time,the rays also and that is with a terrible pitching staff,wang and joba hurt.imagine what they can do with a rotation of cc,peavey,wang,mussina,joba.

    cano can be replaced by signing hudson and the yankees get better defensively.trade kennedy,matsui,prospects or put a big package of kennedy,hughes,matsui and prospects for both a center fielder and first baseman.

    if they can sign sabathia and sheets then they might be able to keep hughes and cano or trade one of them.

    they have options but one thing i know is that they need to build a nice pitching staff to compete with the blue jays,red sox,angels.big offenses do not win,pitching does.look at the 90′s yankees.just enough offense but good pitching,the angels also.

    so forget the evaluation groop that hank wan’ts and get 5 great pitchers that give you a chance to win every night with a good defense,strong bullpen.

    the farm system needs to be handled right.make sure the pieces are in place there and everything will be fine.

  10. trisha - amazing what one win will do for an optimist! September 13th, 2008 at 8:14 am

    Pete mentioning in a previous thread that the Yankees should add Hughes and Kennedy rather than pitch Ponson and Rasner speaks to a worn out journalist at the end of a very long season rather than someone with the ability to see straight at this point. Anyone mentioning Kennedy coming up to do anything other than act as bat boy hasn’t bothered paying attention to Kennedy. Either that or Pete is Jonesing for more Yankee losses, something it seems we can do well enough without Kennedy’s ridiculous mug making another appearance with the Yankees EVER. Just my opinion of course.

  11. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut September 13th, 2008 at 8:18 am

    Nice to see that Trisha is such an expert on pitching that she knows that Kennedy will have no worth whatsoever. :roll:

  12. bruce September 13th, 2008 at 8:20 am

    get rid of all the overpaid players,matsui,damon,abraeu,pavano,giambi,pettitte,marte.posada should of never been given a 4th year,he is out the whole year anyways.

    bring in sabathia,sheets or another solid number 1 or 2 pitcher or trade for one,get a young center fielder with a good obp and the same for first base.

    if the yankees wan’t to spend instead of trade the kids,sign sabathia, sheets,tex,hudson.

  13. sunny615 September 13th, 2008 at 8:24 am

    bringing hughes up is to give him innings – which he is sorely lacking do to his rib injury. The Yankees are also sending him to the AFL to boost his innings count. I don’t see a reason not to do it at this point, since the rest of the season is pretty out of reach so there’s no pressure if he fails. What’s he going to do? Say they didn’t make the playoffs because he didn’t pitch well? I think it’s pretty well established this team has some serious warts not named Hughes. Any set back would be minimal at best at this point. If the Yanks were in a race to get in, I don’t think we’d be seeing Hughes.

  14. 86w183 September 13th, 2008 at 8:27 am

    No question Hughes should get a coulpe of starts to finish the season. Kennedy, probably not. Hughes has done well rebuilding his arm and now could erase some awful memories by stepping up late in the year. Of course, you can’t overreact to a late September outing, but I’d like to see him out there.

    It is so difficult to evaluate Cashman fairly because we can’t be 100 percent certain which decisions were truly his and which ones were “organizational”.

    If someone can be taught to play 1B a one-year (MAX) deal for Abreu could make some sense. Then you would have five guys (Abreu, Nady, Melky, Damon, Matsui) for four jobs. Find an inexpensive part time 1B/DH and you have six for five jobs and can focus on pitching with all that money coming off the books. Trading for a CF makes no sense with Austin Jackson perhaps only a half season away… they could survive with Damon/Melky/Gardner handling CF for now.

    My preference would be to sign Teixiera instead of Abreu and do the other plan unless a quality hitter in his prime like Matt Holliday was available at a reasonable price.

  15. Hitman September 13th, 2008 at 8:30 am

    Ok push out all the overpaid players you don’t want and bring in new ones you do want. That’s the plan right? You’re still signing overpaid FAs who may not work out here.

    Btw Hughes should pitch to get his innings up but boy he’s not very good at this point. He’s still a two pitch pitcher. This would be fine if he had Doc Gooden’s stuff but it isn’t even close.

  16. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and hopefully the offense won't be so offensive. September 13th, 2008 at 8:48 am

    Good for Phil.

  17. Gil L September 13th, 2008 at 8:52 am

    “Cash is going to stick around, imo, because his plan to remake the Yanks is reaching its most important phase with all the money coming off the books from George S’s impulse purchases.”

    igawa
    pavano
    abreu
    the cano contract
    damon

    how long can we use george s as an excuse?

  18. deputy dawg September 13th, 2008 at 8:54 am

    Everyone talks about what we should do which is pie in the sky talk. What about what we could have done and didn’t. Does anyone think we would be in this mess if we had grabbed Beltran, who wanted to come here, and Santana a certified 29 year old ace, who also was there for us to acquire.

  19. deputy dawg September 13th, 2008 at 8:56 am

    Read the article in todays N.Y. Post

  20. jonathan September 13th, 2008 at 8:58 am

    it definately is time for cashman to go. We need a baseball lifer, a true TALENT EVALUATOR, a younger stick michael or buck showalter type to assess the young players and make franchise altering decisions such as NOT trading a young bernie williams or mariano. People, do we really have faith that brian cashman can lead this team moving forward?

  21. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 8:59 am

    Hindsight is always so 20/20.

    From that list, I’ll give you Igawa but that’s it. Pavano – at the time of the signing was not a bad sign; Abreu, especially when he was first brought over, has been a more than decent sign; the Cano contract you could argue either way, but in this market you want financial control over young players, so I can see why they did it – plus no one could foresee SUCH a bad season for Cano; Damon, yes, he’s aging, but he’s had the best year of any position player this season, and he always gives you everything he’s got.

    I think a lot of teams in baseball have changed since the Red Sox were able to trade for Beckett. The Marlins were known for their fire sales. A trade like that isn’t often available to be made. But, yes, the Red Sox were willing to give up a prime position player prospect (Ramirez) for aa grade A pitcher in Beckett. You gotta give credit where credit is due. That was an excellent trade.

  22. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 9:03 am

    Deputy Dawg -

    It is just as fruitless to talk about what coulda/woulda/shoulda been done as to talk about pie-in-the-sky trades for the future. Plus people have a way of revisionist thinking that kind of blocks out what was actually happening at the time of the woulda/coulda/shoulda deals. For instance, George didn’t want both Randy Johnson and Carlos Beltran and preferred the pitcher, Johnson (which I think was a mistake).

    Santana would have been here if he proceeded to free agency. Even the vaunted Red Sox did not want to give up talent and money for Santana.

  23. bruce September 13th, 2008 at 9:04 am

    Hitman:

    that is what the yankees did in the 90′s for the most part except for a few players wich nobody knew how good pettitte,mo,jeter,posada would be.

    boggs,clemens,brosus,oneill,hayes,cone,wells,justice and on and on.

    in comparison the money was the same.

    the yankees can’t rely on all prospects unless they build a great pitching staff to mask the potential lack of production.

    in a perfect world the kids will all work out.

    i guess it can be done but do you relly wan’t to wait for all the kids and not go out and get a texiera and or sabathia or trade hughes and or cano for pitching and or and outfielder and first baseman?

    i would much rather trade a cano with some prospects for peavey or someone like that if possible because you are a better team with peavey then you are with cano.

    i understand you can’t sign all free agents or wait for every prospect to pan out but you have to have the right mix.

    do you wait for an ace or sign one?

    the red sox signed or traded for almost every single one of their players.they won it all before ellsbury and pedroia.the few kids now are bumping a few of the veterans because of injury and because they are better options and even ellsbury isn’t full time.

    the yankees can sit pat with their position players but they at least need an ace pitcher and with all the money coming off the books it can’t hurt to sign another good pitcher like sheets or trade for one because an anemic offense can be covered with great pitching,now you can wait or play the kids more.

    the angels are in the bottom of the pack in offense but they are one of the best teams every year because of good,deep pitching and a solid pen.

  24. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 9:09 am

    And as to the question about whether we’d be in this mess if we had Santana – well, you can’t definitively answer that question, but chances are that, yes, the Yankees would have still had difficulties this season, all other things being equal. You can’t win if you don’t score runs. Even with the Mets, Santana had a number of losses/no decisions because of poor run support.

  25. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and hopefully the offense won't be so offensive. September 13th, 2008 at 9:09 am

    Does anyone think we would be in this mess if we had grabbed Beltran, who wanted to come here, and Santana a certified 29 year old ace, who also was there for us to acquire.

    We might be in this same mess, or we might not.
    No one can say for certain what type of situation the Yankees would be if those two were here right now. Anyone who tries to is full of it.
    The point is they(Santana and Beltran) are not here. Move on!

  26. bubba September 13th, 2008 at 9:10 am

    As many of us said a couple of months ago, they should have sold high.

    Re: Abreu. He would be valuable as a DH, but he is so gun shy of the wall that he is a liability in RF. It’s too bad because otherwise he is a decent fielder with an excellent arm. Could he be taught to play 1B?

  27. bubba September 13th, 2008 at 9:12 am

    .. and remember the Yanks chose Randy Johnson over Beltran. Not a good decision, to say the least.

  28. Big Apple Salute September 13th, 2008 at 9:12 am

    One good start may be a good confidence booster for Phil Hughes to go into 2009 with but he will not be handed a starting rotation slot like this year.
    If he starts the year at AAA and shows well, his time will come. The Yankees will go all out to to have a quality staff but chances will come for Phil Hughes. As always, injuries will happen and he can be ready to answer the call.

  29. deputy dawg September 13th, 2008 at 9:14 am

    Doreen
    I know the horse has left the barn, but think about it, if we had gone the Beltran route we would have solved the cf problem for years. Johnson at best was a short term solution.With Santana we wouldn’t have gone into the season with two untried rookies, two higly susceptable to injury veterans and Wang.

  30. TeKNetick September 13th, 2008 at 9:14 am

    Why not bring up Kennedy too? If nothing else, he will provide some postgame entertainment when he gets shelled by the Chi Sox.

  31. Clint September 13th, 2008 at 9:17 am

    deputy – that article was very depressing this morning. could have had santana AND beltran yet that idiot omar snatched the both of them from us because we didn’t want them.

    now the mets are the team heading deep into october with a star centerfielder and a left handed ace while we have melky/washed up damon and generation DL.

  32. deputy dawg September 13th, 2008 at 9:19 am

    Clint
    The day I became depressed was when we passed on Beltran

  33. Down w/Joba, up w/Joba September 13th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    deputy dawg:

    Direct links are great.

  34. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Deputy -

    I agree 100% on Beltran. I never wanted Johnson ever. Just could not picture him as a Yankee. He never fit.

    Beltran isn’t a superstar, but he’s darn solid.

    But the fact of the matter is, is that they did not get him and they’re not going to get him now. So, realistically, you can’t look behind – it doesn’t help. You have to move on and look ahead and hope that things work out better in the future.

    The problem is you can’t see into the future, and even some deals that looked good at the time turned out bad.

  35. bruce September 13th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Doreen :

    the yankees are not the rays.they can’t have financial control over every player,you have to have some high priced veterans.after so many years the great players end up getting paid or you lose them.

    in a perfect world the farm system keeps producing replacements but it is not likely.

    if the yankees had sabathia and traded for another good pitcher at some point before or during the year and a more productive center fielder they are right in the mix and until you have a player like ajax playing well in center field and you have a production problem in cf you have to address it.

    the red sox didn’t wait for a becket to come along or a pedroia they wen’t out and fixed the problems, when pedroia,ells,lester,lowrie came along they dealt with it now you get rid of lugo and the weak pieces and move on.

    you never wait for the kids to make it work,you intelligently sign contracts so that if an ajax is ready you don’t have a overpaid center fielder blocking his path and you always try to make the team better and deal with the players like pedroia,joba,lester when the time comes.the great prospects will always find their way into the lineup.

  36. Brian (Red sox Fan) September 13th, 2008 at 9:26 am

    One small point about Yankee callups. The Yankees have several games left with teams fighting for playoff spots and/or playoff position. Although the team is in an unusual situation this year, I’m sure that they’ll recognize the ethical obligation to go with their “A List” players, rather than use meaningful games (for the other teams) as a tryout camp.

    I think that a lot of bloggers are missing that point. The Yankees have been doing the “right thing” in terms of preserving the integrity of the game.

    Many of you may recall the Colts playing scrubs against Tennesse in the last game of the NFL season, costing the Browns a playoff spot. I’m sure that the Yankees are sensitive to the fallout from such competitive indifference.

  37. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 9:27 am

    Oops – I didn’t address Santana.

    I’m really torn on this one. If the deal could have been made without including Hughes, I was all for it. Although I like Melky, I’ve never seen him as unexpendable, and I thought Kennedy was the pitcher to include in a deal, plus a couple more. I still think Hughes is going to do all right, maybe much better than all right. You couldn’t make the deal if it included Wang. And we’ve all heard so many permutations of what the deal looked like at various stages, it’s silly to try and figure it out.

  38. Jeff September 13th, 2008 at 9:29 am

    This guy and Kennedy better pan out. Santana could’ve been pitching for us!

  39. Briantrust September 13th, 2008 at 9:30 am

    Abreu 2 yrs 26 mil, no more. Maybe a third option year.

  40. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 9:34 am

    bruce -

    It’s my understanding that the Yankees have a lot of contracts that they could not move. It’s been years in the making. And you can’t “eat” all that money. They had no choice right now other than to ride out some of this mess, and gradually get smarter about this. A lot of pitchers were not signed in the last couple of off-seasons because the Yankees did not want to tie up time and money in basically average pitchers. Same with the bench players they went after. I think a lot of the moves over the last two seasons were made with an eye toward opening up some of that space, giving them a real opportunity to ‘start over’ to some extent.

    They took some gambles and most of them did not work out.

    But they’ve now got some contracts terminating and money coming off the books, and hopefully they will be very smart and creative in new acquisitions. And hopefully they will start drafting some position players, too.

  41. Lefty September 13th, 2008 at 9:35 am

    One of the last of George Steinbrenner’s heavily influenced signings is nearing his final days at the Stadium and clear the books of $17M . . . . Jason Giambi. This also gets the team younger and more flexible.

  42. bruce September 13th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    the dodgers,arizona,toronto,rays are closer to the bottom in runs scored,tampa is in the middle of the pack,texas is the league leader.

    it is pitching,bullpen that wins games and timely hitting.

    if the yankees win 14-1 in game one and lose 2-1 in game two they are 1-1.i would much rather them win 2-1 and 3-2 and be 2-0,stats are misleading.it is easy to score 2 or 3 runs the key is good pitching.look at the angels,they scored 686 runs and gave up not much less than that.

  43. bruce September 13th, 2008 at 9:41 am

    sorry the rays,dodgers,arizona,toronto are closer to the bottom and the angels is in the middle

  44. murphydog September 13th, 2008 at 9:41 am

    When adding pieces to the management structure – like a Showalter or other “talent evaluator” – you need to exercise the same care you would in adding to the clubhouse. It’s called a management “team” for a reason. Adding a Boy Genius who cannot get along with others is like adding Manny Ramirez to the front office. You’ll get some individual brilliance but no team cohesion.

    At the same time, adding a “Talent Evaluator” yet giving him a secret mission as a shadow, “replacement in waiting” for the current GM, will cost the team yet another year as the season will be spent in fractured decision making and knife fighting in the board rooms. Let’s hope the Yankees are direct and up front about their changes and skip the drama Hank stirred up with his solo announcement.

    While Showalter is a bright baseball guy who helped direct the late 90′s dynasty onto the runway, he has a history with the team and he was known as a difficult micromanager and a “lone ranger.” IMO, he’d be a net, shortrun setback as an “advisor.” If they want a guy like Buck, they might as well push Cash out the door and commit to Showalter as GM. I don’t see Girardi and Buck getting along at all.

  45. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 9:44 am

    bruce -

    Well, obviously, you want to win both games! :lol:

    Seriously, how many times have the Yankees won blow-outs and you sit there and wish they could “bank” the runs for a less productive day?

    But for the time being, they are what they are – and until this year the offense was able to get them well over 90 wins a year, getting them to the playoffs. They were never able to find the right pitchers once 2003 ended – it’s been almost an endless audition for spots in the Yankees rotation since that time. Some of those pitchers should have worked out, you’d think. But it explains Cashman and the organization’s focus on drafting pitching. Throw enough spaghetti against the wall and something’s gonna stick.

  46. chazzh September 13th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    Brian (Red Sox fan)-

    The yankees have no obligation to play anyone other than whoever they want to play (to further their development for next year). If a team misses the playoffs due to another team’s lack of playing their starters (like the Browns) – they can only blame themselves for not getting it done on their own. I hope the Yanks play the players they want to play to help the YANKEES- who cares about the other teams. Trust me- if the shoe was on the other foot- other teams wouldn’t care about the Yankees- nor should they.

    Bottom line- Hughes gives them a better chance to win this year anyway- so why not bring him up? Ponson is not going to be part of this team’s future success anyway- thank him for his contribution and put him in the pen for the rest of the year.

  47. bruce September 13th, 2008 at 9:50 am

    murphydog:

    good points but the 70′s yankees hated each other.reggie and nettles had a fist fight,martin couldn’t stand reggie.

    it is a good feeling when everybody is holding hands singing we are the world but the players don’t have to like or get along to win it all.it just has to be gone about a certain proffesional way for it to work.

    youk is not liked much,look at manny with the red sox.

    it can hurt in cases i suppose though.

  48. randy l September 13th, 2008 at 9:52 am

    doreen
    my perception of cashman is that he does not surround himself with talented people because he looks at them as a threat.

    all you have to do is look at theo and the red sox organization and see the difference in how the red sox brought in all kinds of young talent into management. ironically cashman is all fo getting younger ,cheaper and more athletic on the field, but he’s not for getting younger, cheaper, and smarter in the front office.

    i simply have little respect for someone who’s afraid of surrounding himself with talented people because he’s afraid of losing personal control. i look at cashman as a small man and i don’t mean height. as long as cashman controls the culture of the yankees they have no chance against the superior organization of the red sox.

    and i’m not impressed with the red sox organization. they are doing some things right, but mostly they are simply winning by default. cashman is that bad. he is the red sox secret weapon.

  49. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 9:55 am

    bruce -

    It’s in the organizational structure that you don’t want backstabbing and such. I agree that players don’t have to like each other to be able to do their job. But you can’t have people in the front office constantly looking over their backs.

  50. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    randy l -

    I don’t know how to answer that. I don’t know enough. I would hope that it’s not true. I would wonder if he’s had his back stabbed a few times by the “Tampa faction,” but that’s conjecture, as well.

  51. pat September 13th, 2008 at 10:03 am

    Pete

    You lucked out this weekend being off. You didn’t have to sit through the rain delay last night and a split double header can’t be a whole lot of fun for a writer either!

  52. bruce September 13th, 2008 at 10:04 am

    Doreen: i agree that something will eventually stick but it hasn’t yet except joba and the jury is still out with him.also the past teams had enough pitching to win over 90 games it is just that the elite teams had better pitching because they were not affraid to trade prospects like hanley ramirez to bring in a josh becket wich was the only difference maker in making boston better than the yankees up until this very day.

    i umderstand waiting for a lot of position prospects to pan out but with pitching and over a 200 million dollar payroll and in ny you can’t wait.you have to be proactive and go out and get pitchers with good lifetime stats and not pitchers that had 1 good year or a lifetime 500 pitcher or past their prime pitchers.

    sabathia,santanna,peavey,lackey,those are good lifetime pitchers that you take a chance with.

    i remember when boston got becket and dice-k,i knew the yankees were going to get bumped by boston.

    the yankees did nothing to counter those moves and put 2 rookies in the rotation at the same time when one was enough.

    sign 2 great pitchers or trade for them and take a chance with the position players,i can see that but you can’t fool with pitching.

    like i said deal with the great prospects when the time comes but never sit still and do nothing at least with the pitching.

  53. bruce September 13th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    Doreen :

    i agree with the backstabbing comment.

    i think the yankees offense would have been more energized if the pitching was better.

    they got old,slow and confused very quickly.i just think that the yankees are stuck in their philosophy between the youth movement and signing veterans and need to go out and sign some elite pitchers and get rid of pettitte,pavano,rasner,ponson,maybe keep mussina another year.

    they can’t win when all but mussina’s era are around 5 and over.

    how come cashman was a genious in the 90′s even though he wasn’t making all the decisions and the red sox were failures and the roles are reversed?

    i believe it is all about the pitching.it will be amazing when the yankees get the right pitchers and all this nonsense goes away.

  54. Betsy September 13th, 2008 at 10:18 am

    sigh – Phil should not be pitching in the ML this year. Brian was not impressed last out and I doubt he was impressed. The Yankees do not know how to handle young pitchers. Phil is the guinea pig – lucky him.

  55. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 10:18 am

    bruce -

    When the Red Sox got Becket, they traded position players, right? And to get Dice-K, it only took money. For the Yankees to have gotten Santana, Melky was a throw-in, but the Twins wanted pitching back. If they would have taken quantity fine, but they wanted a deal built around either Hughes or Wang, but including other pitchers as well. If the Yankees do that, you wonder if they really make out on the deal. Especially if they had any doubts at all about Santana losing velocity or whatnot. As I said before, if Santana was a FA, I strongly believe he’d have been in pinstripes.

    I was shocked at the time by what Boston bid for Dice-K, but coming off the year they had, everyone should have seen it coming. Certainly, the Yankees should have seen it coming. They severely underbid that one, and it needs to be pointed out that even the Mets bid more than the Yankees for Matsuzaka. It also should be pointed out, in fairness to the Yankees, that the Mets also bid pretty high for Igawa.

    So, the Yankees can correct a lot by overpaying for Sabathia and whatever other pitcher they choose to go after. But they will have to overpay. Which means they will be conservative elsewhere. And pitching is such a gamble.

  56. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    bruce -

    I agree – if your team is winning, you’re a genius; if not, well, not so much. :)

  57. Doreen September 13th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Betsy -

    You can’t really ever take what Cashman says at face value. And many people were evaluating his demeanor, saying he sounded resigned or whatever. It is not inconceivable that he was merely tired of all the questions about Phil Hughes, and not tired of Phil Hughes himself.

    Apparently they were impressed enough with the last two outings to let Phil pitch a game or two up here. If getting innings is the objective, why not? He’s not being brought up to carry them to the playoffs and that’s a big difference. If they had brought him up sooner, the demands would be greater.

  58. randy l September 13th, 2008 at 10:36 am

    doreen -
    just ask yourself if cashman has ever hired someone like josh byrnes?

    and then ask yourself why not.

    there has been a talent drain with the yankees in the minor league coaching system.

    why is that happening?

    part of the reason is that a talented coach also becomes behind the scene part of that advisory council. someone like gil patterson or neil allen’s voice carried weight. they could be a tipping point with someone else that had infuence. cashman has been very careful to add people who will kiss up to him and get rid of people that don’t. it’s really that simple.

    cahsman will not stay with the threat of having lots of talented people around him. it’s his biggest fear.

  59. Betsy September 13th, 2008 at 10:45 am

    Doreen, I just think the Yankees are bringing Phil up because they have no other palatable options and that is a lousy reason to do anything. Their handling of Phil has been a disgrace, IMO – first rushing him up last year, now this. I am taking Brian’s comments after last week’s game at face value until I am shown reason to believe otherwise. Clearly Brian was not particularly impressed – his comments were less than enthusiastic – so why would he have a such a quick change of heart now? I don’t buy it. As for the innings, Phil is not going to pitch enough up here to make the call-up a slam dunk. He’s not going to throw a significant amount of innings, so why not let him enjoy his positive outings in AAA before he goes to the AFL? I will say this – he’d better pitch brilliantly up here and never struggle one bit, or else fans will boo him out of the park like they did early this year. This is part of the reason I don’t want Phil brought up, although in the end, he’s going to have to pitch in NY at some point. Phil will never be allowed to struggle at any point in the future, as all young pitchers do, because any struggles he has will be viewed through a prism of incredible negativity (meaning, he’s struggling because he sucks, not because he’s young).

  60. doslobo38 September 13th, 2008 at 10:47 am

    The Yankees need Abreu he is one of the most consistant hitters on the team and leads the team in overall hits, doubles and triples, he has a few less walks this season but so does the entire team. Nady is no replacement for Abreu, Nady is a good player but he is having a better than average year and is unlikely to post similar numbers in the future. Abreu is playing right at his impressive career numbers and is likely to continue to do so for years to come. Abreu wants to remain a Yankee so sign him to a three year deal or some other team will (and for more money).

  61. Tidrow September 13th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    It’s mind boggling how impatient some Yankee fans are. Can you give some of these young guys a chance? Give Hughes and Melky and Kennedy and Gardner and Cano and all the rest of these young guys you want to unceremoniously dump in the garbage a chance will ya? Not every successful major leaguer hits the ground running you know. That’s the beauty of the homegrown talent. Watching a player grow and blossom is a true pleasure that many fans love to see and talk about but few are patient enough to let happen.

  62. COL 88 September 13th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    I don’t think Cash was ‘unimpressed’ with Phil (though from that interview, I can see why someone might think that)– he is just putting it in perspective. AAA is not what it used to be and we have no idea how his numbers will translate. It is fine for the fans to get giddy over his postseason performance but as a GM, Cashman has to look at it objectively and trust what his scouts, Nardi, and player development guys tell him. He probably takes the “I’ll believe it when I see it approach”, which is fine.

    I also think Cashman is just frustrated. Phil has lost 2 years of development time, did not do well at the ML level this yr, and will still be on a strict IP limit next year therefore limiting his ability to help the big club in 09. He has taken steps back. Cash wanted 2009 to be the year Joba and Hughes could pitch 180-200 innings and anchor the staff. He realized that the rebuilding year proved meaningless and it makes him look bad. IMO, I get the sense he is very confused right now about what to do going forward with Hughes and combine that with the fact he doesn’t have a contract for next year and his stock as a GM is plummeting (evident by the fact that the only places you hear him rumored to go to are the hapless Nationals and Mariners) you can see where the confusion/frustration comes from. He tied his career into these 3 kids and only Joba is doing him any favors.

  63. trisha - I support Sidney Ponson and believe that Arod will start to hit. September 13th, 2008 at 11:11 am

    “Nice to see that Trisha is such an expert on pitching that she knows that Kennedy will have no worth whatsoever.”

    Macademia, because I don’t spend 24-7 on these forums playing armchair manager doesn’t mean that I don’t observe or cannot make an informed judgment. In fact I think it’s a strength that I am not so emotionally bound up in every move ever made by the Yankees because it might give me just a smidgeon more of objectivity. In any event, I, known for never giving up on any Yankee project by and large, have watched enough of Kennedy, both in the Bronx and then in person when he pitched in the finals for Scranton a short while ago, that I feel that he should not be allowed anywhere near the Bronx if it is in a Yankee uniform. I did not say that Kennedy will have no worth whatsoever, I’m saying that I don’t believe he has what it takes to pitch for the New York Yankees. Those are two very different statements.

    Anyway, I ended it all by saying it was “just my opinion” which in the end here is all any of us has – our opinions. The real experts are the ones who are paid to make the decisions. They are not the ones posting on the lohud blog.

  64. R-Tek September 13th, 2008 at 11:17 am

    Trisha, I agree– Kennedy sucks, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

    The fact that we let Rasner make 20 starts and Ponson make 15 starts in a “rebuilding year” while Ian was lighting up AAA tells us all we need to know about what they thought of Kennedy.

    He is Igawa from the right side. With all the arms coming through the system, there is no place for Kennedy. He is trade bait. Hughes has a future with us, Ian does not.

  65. bodhisattva September 13th, 2008 at 11:19 am

    Tidrow September 13th, 2008 at 10:49 am
    “It’s mind boggling how impatient some Yankee fans are. Can you give some of these young guys a chance? Give Hughes and Melky and Kennedy and Gardner and Cano and all the rest of these young guys you want to unceremoniously dump in the garbage a chance will ya? Not every successful major leaguer hits the ground running you know. That’s the beauty of the homegrown talent. Watching a player grow and blossom is a true pleasure that many fans love to see and talk about but few are patient enough to let happen.”

    MIND BOGGLING is no abuse of hyperbole; that’s exactly what it is. The people you’re asking to “give a chance” to younger players are, finally, not worth talking to. They have never planted a garden, it seems, they want their vegetables and fruit from the A&P, because they don’t have to take a risk that the seeds they plant may not develope.

    Well, so much for imagination, vision, and as you so eloquently state, the “true pleasure” of watching those players grow.

    Hughes was filthy last night. He’s 21 years old. If I could go back in time, and was offered Santana for Hughes STRAIGHT UP, my answer was then and is now an unequivocal NO. The people here groaning about how we “blew it” will fall into the ranks of “I never wanted Hughes dealt” when he’s dealing for us five years from now and Santana in decline.

    People who wanted this and want Cano traded, IMO, have no vision, no patience, and are only interested in short-term gain, which you don’t get, any way, by making stupid moves. They don’t know what “true pleasure” is, and are not interested in how winning is accomplished, they are too terrified of being viewed a loser to give any creative thought to what stupid moves will do to this team over the next half decade and beyond.

    We have excellent young pitching in our ranks. We can add a free agent like Sabathia w/out having to give up a potentially great young position player (Cano), which would be utterly dumb. People here who say Orlando Hudson can replace him – I am sorry, I am laughing at you; your view isn’t even worthy of me bothering to engage you any more in discussion.

    Wang is returning as well, so we’re getting a proven starter for 2009 without doing something detrimental to our future.

    Aceves is another plum who could fill a 4-5 spot efficiently. The bullpen is really looking like it will be one of the best in the majors for years to come, with Melancon, Dunn, Sanchez, etc. on the rise, and the kids who have had success this season at the Major League level.

    Throw in your lot with the likes of us, Tidrow, who want the plants watered, not pulled out at the roots. The rest is just noise.

  66. Betsy September 13th, 2008 at 11:20 am

    COL 88, if what you say is true about Brian (that he’s completely confused about what to do about/with Phil), then he doesn’t belong running a major league franchise. The man said that Phil would not be called up until at least September 2007, but rushed him when injuries decimated the staff. The kid showed tremendous promise last year, in between the injuries and rehab, evening saving the Yankees season in the ALDS. This year was frustrating, but Brian HAS to deal with that. Phil got injured – what can anyone do about that? I firmly believe that he was feeling the effects of his injury during his bad outings, but I have no proof. Even if he was completely healthy, he was a baby at that point – 21- and he just turned 22 in August. Young pitchers struggle, even future HOFers. Does Brian not understand this? He seems clueless about young pitchers – I’m a huge Cash fan, but I’m really beginning to wonder if he is the right man for the job based on this fact alone.

  67. ryan September 13th, 2008 at 11:50 am

    Yanks should sign Sabathia and bring back moose and pettitte. That’ll leave them with Wang,CC,Moose,pettitte and joba can start the year as the 5th starter. I say keep Hughes,kennedy,aceves in AAA for more seasoning untill joba comes close to his innings cap. send him to the bullpen and bring up the best of the 3 to take over that 5th spot and with all veterens anchoring the rotation there’s not so much pressure on the 5th spot. and with joba starting the year in the rotation yanks will get an early boost to take some of the pressure off these kids…i say keep em all it’s more interesting than watching overrpaid athletes.

  68. trisha - I support Sidney Ponson and believe that Arod will start to hit. September 13th, 2008 at 11:58 am

    R-Tek -

    thanks for that. If you don’t mind, I am going to quote you in the thread above.

  69. Tidrow September 13th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    I have a feeling that before all is said and done Phil Coke will stake a claim for a starting spot in the rotation sometime next year. The kid has a good fastball and sweeping curve and his control is pretty good unlike Sean Henn whose demise as a Yankee starter could be attributed to his lack of location on his pitches. I also like Cokes’ mound presence. He looks like a battler and seems very confident and aggressive. The Yankees could really use a young southpaw in the rotation and here’s hoping Coke fits the bill.

  70. Kill-Schill(ing) September 13th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    I’d love to see Bobby Abreu in pinstripes for two more years. He’s earned HIS stripes as perhaps one of the most reliably productive Yankee and he has aged well.

    Next year, he’ll be a younger younger 35 than Matsui or Damon or perhaps, even Jeter.

  71. Mark Alan September 13th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    From the NOTEBOOK:

    Barring a failure to get those nine hits or a 1,240-hit performance by Jose Molina over the homestand, it’s a record Jeter will hold forever.

    Either Pete’s rubbing off on him or Jake came with the requisite bit of humor/snark.

  72. zellyanks91 September 13th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Phil Hughes has gotten the call…finally! I guess he finally earned his way back. Congrats to Mr. Hughes.

    Last 4 starts in the minors..(regular season & playoffs)

    (W-L) 2-0 25IP 18H 4R 4ER 9BB 38K …..WOW

    Kevin

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