Wrapping it up from the Bronx
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 15, 2008 
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* Hideki Matsui told reporters after the game that once the Yankees are eliminated, he likely would have his knee surgery. But he wants to wait until that point and he hopes to play in another game or two.
* The Yankees love them some Phil Coke. The lefty has thrown eight scoreless innings, giving up two hits and fanning six. Girardi was asked whether Coke would be best used as a starter or reliever and said that was something they would have to talk about. Coke was developed as a starter this season but did not get any starts above AA.
I think they have to at least give him a chance to start. The new Stadium will have the same dimensions, meaning lefty starters will be valuable. Coke’s role will likely hinge on whether they retain Damaso Marte.
* Chatted a bit informally after the game with Joba Chamberlain. He’s really sick and tired of the whole debate over his role. To Joba, it’s pretty simple. He has been a starter all his life until last July. You know why he’s a good reliever? Because he’s a good starter. He wants to start, period.
The Yankees might have to finagle this a bit next season. But if they put him in the bullpen, he’s not going to be happy.
* Phil Hughes will be wearing his glasses on Wednesday. He’s not much for the contacts. Lasix surgery is not an option, the doctors told him. “The only thing I have trouble seeing are things far away at night,” he said. “You know, like the catcher’s signs.”
* Derek Jeter said all the flashbulbs didn’t bother him at the plate. “That’s not why I swung at bad pitches,” he said.
* Mariano Rivera was decidedly unimpressed that he passed Lee Smith. The closer is furious the team isn’t going to the playoffs. Furious.
* People were booing A-Rod, who was 0 for 4 and K’d twice. This I do not understand. How he is the only guy at fault? Boo them all or don’t boo anybody.
Thanks for reading tonight.
1) Matsui, get the surgery now and come back healthy sooner.
2) How can you not love a team where the heroes of the game are Coke and X? Guess I need rehab.
3) The Phil Hughes quote reads like something I expect to see in SI’s “They Said It”
4) At least Jeter’s honest.
5) Mo gets mad? I kid, I kid. Mo is as much the heart and soul of the team as Jorge and Derek. It’s gotta hurt for him, especially since most of the time he only comes in when the Yankees are winning…(yea, I’m avoiding the whole tie game thing deliberately)
That is EXACTLY what I’ve been saying about booing A-Rod. So annoying.
“Chatted a bit informally after the game with Joba Chamberlain. He’s really sick and tired of the whole debate over his role. To Joba, it’s pretty simple. He has been a starter all his life until last July. You know why he’s a good reliever? Because he’s a good starter. He wants to start, period.”
Thank you Peter. He wants to be a starter relegating this guys arm to 1 inning would be a crime.
Pete,
Thanks for the hard work you put in for this decidely ungrateful blog.
We tease you and tweak you only because we love you.
Thanks again.
“Mariano Rivera was decidedly unimpressed that he passed Lee Smith. The closer is furious the team isn’t going to the playoffs. Furious.”
Of course he is Mo still wants to make up for his 04 follies against the Sux and he knows that he only has 2-3 years of effective baseball in him.
True, mel, this is an awesome blog and it’s Pete Abe first and foremost that makes it so, not anything to do with the LoHud brand.
But does Pete tease and tweak us and call us “fans” only because he loves us too?
Having a pitcher like Phil Coke does give the Yankees some options, but they would be well served to test him out as a starter in Spring Training or at Scranton next year. Good lefty starters are always at a premium. Let’s enjoy Coke.
I think the yankees need to pick-up Damaso Marte’s option–even though he’d be a type “A” free agent. While Coke has been great, we’ve seen the consequences of relying on young players in important roles–if they succeed great–if not–we end up watching Ponson or Rasner. Keep Marte and Coke.
Maybe they’re singling A-Rod out because they read your blog.
The Yankees love them some Phil Coke
I love me some Coke too.
Chatted a bit informally after the game with Joba Chamberlain. He’s really sick and tired of the whole debate over his role. To Joba, it’s pretty simple. He has been a starter all his life until last July. You know why he’s a good reliever? Because he’s a good starter. He wants to start, period.
I feel bad for Joba. This debate must drive him crazy.
The closer is furious the team isn’t going to the playoffs. Furious.
I’m furious too.
People were booing A-Rod, who was 0 for 4 and K’d twice.
Those people are idiots.
At leasy Joba isn’t a moron like Posada.
Summer with the comment of the day! Pretty good.
Are you the personification of Summer from “The O.C.” but brainier?
JOBA – STARTER, End of discussion, regardless what Posada or anyone else says.
I don’t get the A-Rod booing either….yeah, he’s having a bad year….only hitting a little over 300, only has 100 rbi’s…only a little over 100 runs scored and only 30+ home runs….those would be career years for almost every other mlb player
So nick, how are those lollipops coming? (d)
I just emailed you about that 10 minutes ago, check your inbox. HA!
“People were booing A-Rod, who was 0 for 4 and K’d twice.
Those people are idiots.”
A-rod 09 MVP. Bank on it, these same morons will be chanting MVP next August foam fingers in hand.
If any player ever had the right to flip the “fans” off, it’s Alex Rodriguez.
Start Joba next year. IF he re-injures his shoulder/elbow or whatever he’s in the pen. I have always said that if I can’t have Joba the starter, then I will be happy with Joba the reliever. It’s better than no Joba at all (losing him to season/career ending injury).
See, Pete! Nick in SF loves you, too.
Booing is ridiculous, especially when we’re winning.
Go, Philly, go. March down the field like it’s Main Street.
Speaking of Maine, he’s ready to come soon…as a closer!
92-70 and IN the playoffs this year…..priceless…
What’s the old saying “they (the fans) boo because they want the player to to cheer’” I don’t think that’s true with Arod. I think some “fans” just hate the guy. Plain and simple. I don’t know if it’s because he’s “unclutch” or if it’s somthing as petty as his contract. Either way I agree booing arod evertime he has a bad game is stupid. The Yankees are where they are because of pitching. Not because of Arod
I am so tired of fans booing Arod.
Its gotten very old and shows we have no class booing one of our own.
McNabb and Westbrook choke away the game. Especially McNabb, doing his best A-Rod impersonation.
Boston is going 3-6 over the next 9 games….we are going 9-0…..then the SWEEP in BOSTON !!!
Wow, what a stupid ending to a great football game.
There’s no point in booing anymore. Season’s over, let A-Rod do his thing. Next year he’ll be absolutely amazing, since it’s an odd year.
Nick: just responded!
Yay for timing! I still can’t believe I picked Maryland…
Wow, with all that happened this year in Yankeeland, it always comes down to these two issues: Arod: why do jerk fans boo?, and Joba: Starter of Bullpen? is this going to be what the offseason+spring training is going to be like?
What a crazy football game that was. tsk tsk McNabb
Pete:
When you make $27 million is 40 homeruns too much to ask for.If A-Rod hit liken he did last year we would be still in the race to October.Same thing with Jeter.Yeah he’s breaking records but unlike A-Rod,Jeter can’t and never before put he’s team on he’s back to win.And making $18 million he nothing but a player who plays hard but is not really does much.
Yeah Jeter passing Lou is great in hits in the stadium.Too bad more then half of those hits are slap singles.
This is the very thing that kept Roger Maris from returning to Yankee stadium for almost 20 years. They booed him out of NY. Like Rodriguez, Maris was a special and exceptional all around player.
Coulnt agree more about the ard booing just goes to show you how sometimes stupid the fans really are I have said that they just take all the frustration out on him and it drives me crazy!!
Meanwhile added photos for tonight’s game to the final season album fo anyone interested.
Do you think Jba spoke to Jorge and told him he wanted to be a starter and if so what do we think JOrge’s response to him was?
http://yankeesseason2008.shutterfly.com
This winter, (thinking outside the box)sign Giambi to a reduced rate two year contract, same with Marte. Eat some salary, add McAllister and Veras – trade to Cincinnati for Bruce. Draft picks help too far down the road. Worth discussing? For St Louis and Rasmus do that with Abreu.
Arod is a terrible curse that will ruin the Yankees for the next 9 years. Deep down, everybody knows this. Booing is very appropriate.
Arod is a terrible curse that will ruin the Yankees for the next 9 years.
No
Deep down, everybody knows this. Booing is very appropriate.
and No
Don’t forget that arod has missed almost a month with the quad injury. His numbers would have been there if he was healthy–he did play the first month with a barking quad. Still the numbers he puts up are awsome.
Eventually, Joba and Jorge and Goose are going to have to have a sit down and sort this all out.
“Arod is a terrible curse that will ruin the Yankees for the next 9 years. Deep down, everybody knows this. Booing is very appropriate.”
Okay, just don’t be a turncoat when he has 50 bombs in the new stadium.
“Eventually, Joba and Jorge and Goose are going to have to have a sit down and sort this all out.”
Nick, you are hilarious.
MoBoy,
You don’t pay players $27 million because they guarantee 40HR’s. You pay them $27 because they’ll hit 30+HR and knock in 100+RBI every year.
You act like A-Rod decides when he will and won’t get hits in advance….
Wait, I just read the rest of your post and it definitely doesn’t deserve a serious response.
Eventually, Joba and Jorge and Goose are going to have to have a sit down and sort this all out.
I think we might need Oprah/Dr. Phil/Jerry Springer to join in and help them sort things out
That would be some interesting daytime for sure…
“Like Rodriguez, Maris was a special and exceptional all around player.”
Come on GB7, you’re smarter than that.
Arod has much much more talent than Maris, but Maris did more with his talent to help the team win (5 pennants, 3 WS titles) than Achoke has, or will ever do.
Wake me when Achoke leads the team to a few pennants and World Series, until then give it up – he’s no Roger Maris. And yes, I agree, a guy like Maris should not have been booed. He paid his dues, he was a genuine Yankee, he deserved better.
Alex Rodriguez, on the other hand, deserves to be booed. For the kind of money they’re paying him, and for the return they’re getting on their investment, which is, other than his scattered in season accomplishments, isn’t much, he should give the money to charity.
Health issues notwithstanding, Joba will be valuable whether he starts or relieves…
The Yankees should be more worried about how to solve the problem of hitting with RISP, or rather, lack of hitting with RISP…
How do you solve that?
sorry put thewrong link ths is the correct one
http://yankeestadiumthefinalseason.shutterfly.com
I came across something strange last night on the telly, it was Jerry Springer’s taped apology (commercial) when he was running for governor of Ohio years ago. He apologized for paying for certain services with a check. Real Twilight Zone moment.
Goose would flip Posada and that would be the end of it.
“Okay, just don’t be a turncoat when he has 50 bombs in the new stadium.”
I don’t care if he got 100 bombs in the new stadium, if it doesn’t translate into wins for the team, and championships, it’s just more stats to pad his already overblown ego.
The Joba debate isn’t one. He is a starter until a legit reason comes up.
While I’m always for a lefty starter, I’m not sure Coke can be that guy. I like the idea of trying him out of the pen for now. Especially with Marte back for next year, I like having 2 lefties in the pen. If you want lefty starters, there’s Sabathia, Perez, and Pettitte (if he doesn’t retire). There’s also Chase Wright sitting there and doing a fine job this year…how about rewarding the guy?
“Goose would flip Posada and that would be the end of it.”
No, Cliff Johnson flipped Goose, not vice versa. That’s why he got traded with the speed of a rocket.
I’m glad Joba finally spoke up for himself. First Posada should learn to remain stationary behind homeplate. For a guy who has caught all these years, he’s still bobbing and weaving back there, like a bad target. He must have missed that session on giving a pitcher a target. Great guy, catcher, not so much.
Okay bigjf,
Joba debate all over again. Coke was lights out starting in AA. As with Joba they had to limit his innings.
As to Wright, bombs away in Boston.
Pepitone
September 16th, 2008 at 12:20 am
“Like Rodriguez, Maris was a special and exceptional all around player.â€
Come on GB7, you’re smarter than that.
Arod has much much more talent than Maris, but Maris did more with his talent to help the team win (5 pennants, 3 WS titles) than Achoke has, or will ever do.
Wake me when Achoke leads the team to a few pennants and World Series, until then give it up – he’s no Roger Maris. And yes, I agree, a guy like Maris should not have been booed. He paid his dues, he was a genuine Yankee, he deserved better.
Alex Rodriguez, on the other hand, deserves to be booed. For the kind of money they’re paying him, and for the return they’re getting on their investment, which is, other than his scattered in season accomplishments, isn’t much, he should give the money to charity.
________________________________________________
It’s doubtful you ever saw Maris play. He was one of the top 3 or 4 defensive right fielders of that era. He was also one of the fastest and best base runners on the Yankees. The only one faster on the team was Mantle.
I never said he was Rodriguez’ equal in talent. As for the rest of that tripe, it’s too stupid to respond to.
When Hughes gets hit hard in his start this week, I bet he blames his glasses.
Joba should be a starter unless the doctors say it’s too dangerous for his arm. Hopefully that’s not the case. We all saw an ace-in-the-making during that 1-0 game at Fenway.
Funny, when A-Rod was out for the quad injury so many were moaning how bad the offense looked without him in it. Last year when he opted out many were saying that Crede was the one to target. How many would be thrilled to have Crede over A-Rod right now?
“It’s doubtful you ever saw Maris play. He was one of the top 3 or 4 defensive right fielders of that era. He was also one of the fastest and best base runners on the Yankees. The only one faster on the team was Mantle.”
I saw both of them play in person – Maris and Mantle in 1964 and 1965 at Dodger Stadium.
“I never said he was Rodriguez’ equal in talent. As for the rest of that tripe, it’s too stupid to respond to.”
Fascinating. Just like anyone else who can’t engage an argument, you resort to the juvenile tactic of calling the argument “stupid.” The only thing “stupid” is your blind ignorance and self-appointed defense of this guy whenever somebody calls him on his choking in pressure situations. What are you his agent?
Bo, you make a fair point, but Coke’s ability as a starter in AA might not necessarily translate. Wright got bombed in one outing in Boston and was promptly ousted. But you do have a point…Still, I’d like to see Coke get hitters out at AAA as a starter, as well as being able to maintain his stuff. IPK was lights out at AAA, but what has he done this year? What about Hughes? You can include Coke in the discussion, but I’d like to see Wright get another chance.
“How many would be thrilled to have Crede over A-Rod right now?”
Me
Oh, and a probably a few thousand more.
One point, mid nineties LHP heater plus a wicked slider and good other pitches. Then comes Dunn at AA, De La Rosa at High A also with LH mid nineties heaters. Those are extremely rare, Wright more a port side Rasner.
What’s the biggest difference between this team now, and the team that was winning in the late 90′s?
Haven’t they proven in the past 6 years that a team does not need a big all-star at every position to be successful. This is where you need to start when rebuilding this team. A team of A-Rod’s would be great, but they would only get you so far. Especilly when they all start slumping at the same time during the games when it counts.
“Haven’t they proven in the past 6 years that a team does not need a big all-star at every position to be successful.”
Stop making sense, Christina, it messes up the flow of nonsense on this blog.
In the late 90s, the way this team was, it wasn’t big stars.
It was everyone doing what needed to be done to win the game, the team first mentality.
People willing to sacrifice to pad stats, to give up their body in the field, to challenge hitters by throwing strikes even on days without their best stuff…
So Pepitone would be happy seeing Betemit playing 3rd because Crede is out with a bad back. Brilliant.
Given the number of Yankee fans out there a few thousand fans that would like seeing Crede over A-Rod is really a small number.
ok im sorry then. lets pick up Texiera, CC, heck is Randy Johnson a free agent yet? He deserves a second shot in the Bronx. Who else?
Who are you two wizards going to blame the losses in 2001, 2002 and 2003 on?
Havent you ever heard of the curse of Enrique Wilson?
Wrong. Hughesy will throw a no-no while wearing those prescription specs.
Unfair as it is, A-rod will never be beloved in New York. People will still boo him. I used to think that there’d be a chance if he had one of those Yankee moments in the post-season or puts the team on his back and wins the World Series.
But I don’t know anymore. There’s more hate than love in this love/hate relationship.
I actually feel sorry for him. He’s got some kind of fortitude to put up with all the abuse.
At least the media’s off his back. Thank goodness for Girardi, huh?
2001: bad starting pitching in the WS in games 2 and 6, and one bad inning from Mo
2002: Bloody Angels
2003: Anti-climatic after beating Boston. And, uh, the Marlins actually played like they wanted to win.
“ok im sorry then. lets pick up Texiera, CC, heck is Randy Johnson a free agent yet? He deserves a second shot in the Bronx. Who else?”
You’re forgetting Jeff Weaver, Kenny Rogers and Clemens too.
Please Mel, don’t let the phrase ” i feel sorry for Arod” slip out of your mouth, or keyboard. He is the last person in the world that needs any sympathy.
Al, what about Kevin Brown? I hear he’s on the verge of making his major league comeback.
Lets not even go back a few years. How about a few days? What’s the difference between Saturday morning and Saturday night?
Something happened. I don’t know if they got embarrassed or if the lineup shakeup worked.
They’re winning because they want it. Simple as that. Whoever wants it more ususally wins. Too bad it took them so dang long.
“Unfair as it is, A-rod will never be beloved in New York. People will still boo him. I used to think that there’d be a chance if he had one of those Yankee moments in the post-season or puts the team on his back and wins the World Series.
But I don’t know anymore. There’s more hate than love in this love/hate relationship.
I actually feel sorry for him. He’s got some kind of fortitude to put up with all the abuse.
At least the media’s off his back. Thank goodness for Girardi, huh?”
I love how last year everyone was drinking the A-rod Koolaid
and acting like fans in a corny baseball movie. Waving foam fingers, screaming MVP and calling into radio stations arguing about A-rod being best ever. Now one playoff-less season and all the supporters run for the hills.
Tonight’s game a typical A Rod, 4 – 2 Yankees, man on second, if A Rod led by example you give yourself up and move the runners over, he grounded out to third, bad baseball. Bottom of inning, man on first, Dye at the plate, 32 HRs this season. One mistake and the game is tied. Granted you’ll see Jeter doing the same thing and they’re the two leaders on this club, but that’s one of the reasons that the Yankees are sucking swamp water this year. Bad baseball.
“Al, what about Kevin Brown? I hear he’s on the verge of making his major league comeback.”
Silly me, I forgot Esteban Loaiza and Shawn Chacon.
If NYY would have had the same sort of pitchers and bullpens from 2004-2008, they would have won. The fact of the matter is, they haven’t had either one since 2003 when Pettitte, Clemens and Wells left. A bullpen with Gordon, Sturtze, Quantrill and Felix Heredia isn’t exactly Stanton, Nelson, and Mendoza. Rivera was the only constant.
“Who are you two wizards going to blame the losses in 2001, 2002 and 2003 on?”
Oh, oh wise one, keeper of the flame of the eternal Arod magic stone, may I speak?
I don’t blame one man for any of those losses (although Mo did have a 2-1 lead in game 7 in 2001). The New York Yankees are to blame for those losses. They lost to better teams, period.
And your point is what exactly? That if we only had his immanence Arod we would have won them all? Talk about a “wizard.”
Thats because yankees fans are fickle, and spoiled. I do have to say though, when making 252 or however many million he has now, it sets the expectations extremely high for yourself. Many associate money with production, which I guess is why players get paid the big bucks– based on their ability. If we could sign a guy to strikeout when the game is on the line, they could have found someone a heck of a lot cheaper to do it.
Christina,
If you’re new, you don’t know what I really think of a said player. So that’s real sympathy.
Next you’ll be hearing that we can blame the meltdown of the American financial system on A-Rod.
“Silly me, I forgot Esteban Loaiza and Shawn Chacon”
One of my favorites actually was Jaret Wright. That was probably the smartest signing that I saw the Yankees make. I mean just look at the steller performance he provided while pitching in the postseason for the Braves.
Pepitone
September 16th, 2008 at 1:06 am
“Who are you two wizards going to blame the losses in 2001, 2002 and 2003 on?â€
Oh, oh wise one, keeper of the flame of the eternal Arod magic stone, may I speak?
I don’t blame one man for any of those losses (although Mo did have a 2-1 lead in game 7 in 2001). The New York Yankees are to blame for those losses. They lost to better teams, period.
And your point is what exactly? That if we only had his immanence Arod we would have won them all? Talk about a “wizard.â€
________________________________________________
Try looking at the numbers of some of those hitters. It was Rodriguez in 2004 most responsible for the offense against the Twins that series and his offense against the Red Sox in the first three games that got that lead. After that, EVERYBODY shut down.
“Thats because yankees fans are fickle, and spoiled. I do have to say though, when making 252 or however many million he has now, it sets the expectations extremely high for yourself. Many associate money with production, which I guess is why players get paid the big bucks– based on their ability. If we could sign a guy to strikeout when the game is on the line, they could have found someone a heck of a lot cheaper to do it.”
Christina, his past 3 years(prior to this disaster) he was clutch if you don’t believe me look up his situational stats. I would still rather have A-rod over Joe (bad-back) Crede or Adrian Beltre.
“Christina,
If you’re new, you don’t know what I really think of a said player. So that’s real sympathy.”
I am new to posting. I guess I am missing a bit then to your remark
Al, I am just saying- the money aspect of ARod is probably the biggest reason he gets as much crap as he does. I never have been a huge fan of his for other reasons, but he probably is one of the hardest working players in the game.
Rodriguez has a string of post season at bats that are brutal, but, there is a msimilar string that’s just as bad in 3 post season series….6-46, 1 homer, 1 RBI, 1 double, 12 strikeouts (’61-’63). somehow, he became a legend known for hid “clutch hitting” in the post season. Mantle had a lot of post season stretches like that.
Christina,
Yankee fans might be spoiled, but fickle?
I live in L.A. and when the Yanks play out here I go to the games with my Yankee hat on, and boy do I get an earful. They absolutely hate the Yankees, and New York. But, when it gets to the 7th inning watch them start packing up to go home, even when the Angels are winning, which is most of the time unfortunately. Guess who are the ones who stay to watch the rest of the game? That’s right, Yankee fans. When the Angel fans leave, we all sit together and talk Yankee baseball. Spoiled? Probably, huge success will sometimes do that you know. Fickle? No way!
I love New York and New York fans, because you guys support the team and the players who show up, and you boo the teams and players that don’t. Out here the fans are too busy drinking their vanilla lattes, and chatting on their Blackberry’s to much care who wins or loses.
Arod, with all his marvelous talent, is one of those guys who don’t show up when it counts, and, for him, getting booed is just desserts. If he doesn’t like it, then learn to produce when the pressure is on. Otherwise, get lost, and I will gladly drive him to the airport.
Christina,
I’m an A-rod fan because I cheer for all the Yankees.
But there was a time when I was fine with his opting out. Even with the uncertainty of who would play 3B for us
That’s irrelevant now, though.
“Al, I am just saying- the money aspect of ARod is probably the biggest reason he gets as much crap as he does. I never have been a huge fan of his for other reasons, but he probably is one of the hardest working players in the game.”
Thats the thing about ARod he gets too mentally affected by fan criticism or the amount of money he makes. However I am one of the few people on this blog who would do the ARod deal again even after seeing his performance this year because the guy is that good. This is his worst year ever and he still has put up numbers that any other guy would be getting high praise for.
“Next you’ll be hearing that we can blame the meltdown of the American financial system on A-Rod.”
I heard he has ties to Goldman Sachs and Warren Buffett.
Now it really all makes sense.
People were booing A-Rod, who was 0 for 4 and K’d twice. This I do not understand. How he is the only guy at fault? Boo them all or don’t boo anybody.
Well, there’s a really short list of people screwing the Yanks last off-season for their own personal gain. I actually have that list if you want it.
I’ll type it out for you.
_________________________________________________________________
People who screwed the Yanks last off-season for their own personal gain
_________________________________________________________________
1. Alex Rodriguez
_________________________________________________________________
Well, that’s it. That’s the list. I haven’t forgotten. I haven’t forgiven. When A-Rod contributes to some chips, I’ll let it go. But that off-season move showed me that the money mattered way more to him than the team did. And now that he has his money, he has to earn every penny of it. So sue me if I boo a greedy multimillionaire headcase for under-performing.
The reason the 90′s Yankees won was because they had great starting pitching and a great bullpen.
I’ve only heard Bo call out Jeter, but in general, just because A-Rod makes so much money he doesn’t want to win? When has the guy ever not give 100%? He plays as hard as anybody.
But let’s get some real “grinders” and “winners” in here so we can get back to the old days. Give me a break. You usually have a better chance of winning baseball games when you have better players on your team, not this mythical creature embodied by David Eckstein at all 9 positions.
Huh. Dontrelle Willis pitched in the bigs for the first time since June. Pitched 5 innings and left with a 4-3 lead. Hoping the best for Hughes on Wednesday, but he’s no Dontrelle.
“Well, that’s it. That’s the list. I haven’t forgotten. I haven’t forgiven. When A-Rod contributes to some chips, I’ll let it go. But that off-season move showed me that the money mattered way more to him than the team did. And now that he has his money, he has to earn every penny of it. So sue me if I boo a greedy multimillionaire headcase for under-performing.”
He only opted out because Boras forced him to explore the market. I kinda forgave A-rod when he fired Boras and came back to cry at Hanks feet for forgiveness.
Al why so sad?
Mickey Mantle played in 12 World Series
Arod? None.
Of those 12, the Yanks won 7.
Arod? None.
Mickey Mantle had more home runs, more runs batted in, more clutch hits than any other player before the current playoff system.
Arod? None.
Look, all you are doing is embarrassing yourself, Arod wouldn’t make a pimple on Mickey Mantle’s ass. As a matter of fact, I take umbrage with you comparing THE MICK with this joker.
For some reason, you have a man crush on Alex Rodriguez, ok, that’s fine, but don’t come in here defending his putrid choking play and expect to get away with it. There are too many knowledgeable Yankee fans in here who know better.
“Huh. Dontrelle Willis pitched in the bigs for the first time since June. Pitched 5 innings and left with a 4-3 lead. Hoping the best for Hughes on Wednesday, but he’s no Dontrelle.”
Not that I’m a huge D-train supporter but how does this happen?
Dontrelle 2005: 22-10, 2.63 ERA, 170 K’s 55 BB’s, 236 IP
Dontrelle 2008: 0-1, 8.82 ERA, 9 SO 26 BB’s 16 IP
Yea Al and he ended up with even more money. So who really made out in this deal?
Mel- You know why
, I have faith though were 1-1 and until the 3rd quarter played all right.
“Yea Al and he ended up with even more money. So who really made out in this deal?”
Not A-rods fault Yankees brass were foaming at the mouth to see A-rod break Bonds record in the new ballpark. So they paid him accordingly.
Point by point
Hideki is a gamer… an under the radar and under-appreciated player on this team i think. i look forward to having him healthy as the full-time DH next year
Let’s hope Coke is “the real thing”. And i hope that Coke’s role next year does not depend on retaining Marte. From what i’ve seen they are very different pitchers.
The cruelest part of this very cruel season was watching Joba leave that game in texas a little more than a week after outdueling Beckett at fenway. As a fan, i’d rather have Joba taking a turn in the rotation every 5 days than have him for one inning on the random days he’s needed. Joba is a bad man… if he wants to start, you let him start
Phil is going to show us something in September and next year. There’s a reason the fans and sportswriters have invested so much energy in a kid whose big league career hasn’t really even started yet. Phil is gonna be legit.
Jeter is the greatest ballplayer of his generation. yeah, i said it.
Mariano is… Mariano. There will never be another like him.
People boo A-Rod because A-Rod sucks. When he gets to 900 home runs, i’ll say the same thing, unless he figures out how to stop being such a headcase and swinging at balls in the dirt in any pressure situation. I really think that the team wants to look to him for inspiration and confidence, and when he repeatedly disappoints it sucks the life out of the whole ballclub. These guys should be full of confidence knowing that they have the most talented player of the decade on their team (notice how i refer to A-Rod versus how i referred to Jeter earlier). But he rarely does anything to instill that confidence, and it permeates through the lineup. I can see now why Seattle and Texas actually got better when he left.
So, Posada and Mo didn’t press and get more years and more money from the Yankees last year? Posada got an extra year deal out of it, and with what happened this year that isn’t looking very good.
Mo also held up the Yankees for more, but he is the greatest closer in baseball.
I really don’t have a problem with any of the signings, but don’t just single out A-Rod when looking at last years off season stuff.
“Yea Al and he ended up with even more money. So who really made out in this deal?”
Forget it, Christina, it’s like talking to a member of a cult – the cult of Arod.
“The cruelest part of this very cruel season was watching Joba leave that game in texas a little more than a week after outdueling Beckett at fenway. As a fan, i’d rather have Joba taking a turn in the rotation every 5 days than have him for one inning on the random days he’s needed. Joba is a bad man… if he wants to start, you let him start”
iI absolutely agree. Joba is a VERY bad man.
If A-Rod had someone better than Giambi hitting behind him it would look different as well.
Al,
Lots of football left. We both have to watch out for those Bills.
““Yea Al and he ended up with even more money. So who really made out in this deal?â€
Forget it, Christina, it’s like talking to a member of a cult – the cult of Arod.”
Pepitone- I’m not in any cult I just think its absurd that A-Rod has become this seasons crutch. Yes he has not been A-rod like and yes he has sucked in the clutch. However to ignore what he did last season and his past 3 seasons overall is being un-fair.
“Al,
Lots of football left. We both have to watch out for those Bills.”
Honestly they frighten me very much. At least with your boys we are familiar with the Bills not so much and Trent Edwards torched my D last season.
That $21 M flush still burns me.
Pepitone, I didn’t compare them….only a short block of failures in the post season. Nearly identical. In two of those series, NYY won in spite of his numbers, not because of them. His only home run and RBI came in a four game sweep (loss). How did the rest of the team hit last year…or this season? You keep harping on his salary, but don’t mention a 23.4 million dollar paycheck for Jeter or 23.5 mil that Giambi gets. What has Giambi ever done?
“That $21 M flush still burns me.”
What do you mean?
One last time, the whole team, especially the 3 bottom dwellers – CCM, 47 games two runs or less, that’s it that’s all. Season over
“I can see now why Seattle and Texas actually got better when he left.”
Ah, the one-year boost after A-Rod was gone. One of the silliest things I hear to rip on him. Sure, focus on that one year, but isn’t a team’s success measured by more than one year?
Funny how both teams ended up reverting back afterwards. Seattle? Haven’t made the playoffs since the year after A-Rod left. Texas? Yay, 89 wins the first year and then… back down to 79, still haven’t made the playoffs.
And with the Mantle/A-Rod comparisons, why do people consistently compare players by their TEAM accomplishments? Last I remember, getting to the World Series was an effort by 25 men, not just one, but hey, that’s fine by me.
“Pepitone- I’m not in any cult I just think its absurd that A-Rod has become this seasons crutch.”
Al -
I really wasn’t talking about fans like you, though I can see how you could see it that way, so I apologize.
I don’t blame this pathetic season on Alex Rodriguez. This season is a team collapse, and though Arod’s choking had a lot to do with it, he is should not be the scapegoat.
I’m just tired of guys like GreenBeret7 making excuses for the guy when they know he does not produce in the clutch. Then they compound the ignorance by comparing him to the like of Roger Maris and Mickey Mantle.
That’s my beef. I don’t even know the guy, he could be a very nice person for all I know, but that’s not the point. The point is he cannot, for whatever reason, produce in pressure situations, and I’m mad that the Yankees signed him for that amount of money for that amount of time.
I don’t like fighting with Yankee fans about this, but some of them think he is above criticism simply because of what he did last year, and in years past during the regular season. I don’t care about his stats, I know he has impressive stats, so what? I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HE DOES WHEN THE TEAM NEEDS A CLUTCH HIT. It’s there that he has been a monumental failure. I just wish other Yankee fans would admit that and let it go.
Al,
If Alex had played out the original contract, Texas would’ve contributed $21 million over the 3 years. Opting out voided the contract.
If Alex had stayed and negotiated an extension with the Yankees, the Texas money would still be in play.
No one was happier to see Alex opt out than the Texas Rangers.
He only opted out because Boras forced him to explore the market. I kinda forgave A-rod when he fired Boras and came back to cry at Hanks feet for forgiveness.
Agents are hired to be the bad guy and take all the blame, and all the heat for the demands their clients make.
Agents exist for a reason. Mainly for the buffer of plausible deniability they provide. If A-Rod didn’t have an agent and pulled that off-season move, he would never be allowed back into the Yankee clubhouse. Cashman catches a lot of flack, but he was right about how he handled A-Rod.
Mel, the base salary request was 300 million. His base is now 279 mil. the bonuses are tied to memorbilia sales and other sales to be split between Rodriguez and the team….maxing out at 305 mil. during home run chases up through the record. It was basically a 3-4 mil a year raise over the remaining 3 years and additional 7 years.
Pepitone- I know what your saying, I would obviously never put A-Rod in the Mantle, Dimaggio, Gehrig zone.
Mel- Yeah that annoyed me, but do you think Boras would have ever let A-Rod not opt out.
Only umps on the take hate instant replay.
Is that why 3 players fired him this year as an agent? They didn’t like the way he was doing business, trying to milk out every dime after they told him to work out a deal with their present teams.
“Pepitone- I know what your saying, I would obviously never put A-Rod in the Mantle, Dimaggio, Gehrig zone.”
Absolutely, Al, and thanks for being honest.
“This season is a team collapse, and though Arod’s choking had a lot to do with it, he is should not be the scapegoat.”
ARod’s performance with RISP does not have a lot to do with it. In fact, he is batting .273/.412/.480 with RISP this year. Yeah, it could be better. But it is not the problem.
Here is the problem with RISP (as of Sunday morning):
Melky/Cano/Molina/Pudge/Bench: .210/.269/.292 in 530 plate appearances
All Other Yankee Hitters (including ARod and Giambi): .290/.386/.454 in 1040 plate appearances.
So, the stars are basically getting the job done. It is the black hole at 2B/C/CF/bench that has plagued this team all year long that, once again, is to blame for the offensive woes with RISP, and for the offensive woes overall.
Also, keep in mind that 50 games have been started by rasner/Pavano/Kennedy/Igawa/Hughes with completely awful results. Crappy starting pitching cannot make up for 3 or 4 dead bats in the lineup.
So if you want to bash Alex or Jason or other highly paid guys, that’s cool. But make sure you bash Melky and Molina and Cano and the bench and Rasner and Ponson first. Because those guys have done the most damage to this team’s chances to win 95 games this year.
GB7,
What’s the saying? You can dress up a pig, but at the end of the day it’s still a pig. Or something like that?
Thanks for the explanation, though. I don’t think I ever saw it spelled out like that.
Cano is what really upsets me this guy could hit .300 with his eyes closed, yet hes giving 0 effort and not even a factor in the OBP department .296 I believe yuck.
Is $21 million an issue to the Yankees?
It is half of what the Yankees are paying Igawa to pitch in Scranton and half of what they paid Pavano to rehab from a buttocks injury, a car crash and Tommy John surgery.
During 2004-2007, the Yankees were paying $15 million per year of A-Rod’s salary while Giambi, Jeter, Pettitte, Clemens and Mussina were costing the Yankees as much or more per year. Maybe the wrong guy was getting booed then and now?
I also meant to include Ponson. he has done a huge amount of damage to this team this year.
I know I’m a few days late on this but I just read the story about Joba’s mother and I cried. He looks just like her its an amazing story.
Guys named Terry, Larsen, Reynolds and Ford are why guys named Mantle, Maris and Berra have WS rings.
Guys named Key, Pettitte, Cone and Rivera are why guys named Jeter and Posada have WS rings.
Guys named Brown, Johnson, Mussina, Loaiza and Quantrill are why A-Rod doesn’t have a WS ring.
Always has been, always will be about the pitching.
“Guys named Brown, Johnson, Mussina, Loaiza and Quantrill are why A-Rod doesn’t have a WS ring.”
Great point. The Yankee pitching has been mediocre at best since the start of 2004, and is the single biggest reason the team hasn’t been to the world series since 2003.
mel
September 16th, 2008 at 2:33 am
GB7,
What’s the saying? You can dress up a pig, but at the end of the day it’s still a pig. Or something like that?
Thanks for the explanation, though. I don’t think I ever saw it spelled out like that.
_______________________________________________
Mel, when this contract is up, Rodriguez will be 42-43 years old, and highly unlikely to be worth the money from a production standpoint, but, much of this contract is tied to marketing to the benefit of both parties. The financial return will be much like the marketing bonanza the Yanks get from Matsui. The marketing is a 50/50 split.People will be so happy to see Bonds’ name erased from that record, they won’t care who does it. If NYY ever gets the pitching fixed, the team will win, and the hitters won’t feel the pressure to carry the entire load.
One other thing about this year’s run production is the dramatic drop in walks throughout baseball. As of today, only one hitter has walked 100 or more times this year….Dunn, and only 9 total with 90 walks. Huge difference from last year. NYY leader is Giambi with 69. abreu and Rodriguez are 30-40 walks less since last year. That has a huge affect on runs and averages. Next year, we’ll find out if this is just an anomaly in baseball or the start of a downturn in walks.
Talking about contracts affecting a player, here’s a wild article about Barry Zito.
It’s rather long, but very interesting.
At the very least, please check out the 2 minute video by his old pitching coach Rick Peterson on page 1, who describes Zito’s curveball and talks about why Zito might be struggling.
Also there’s a cute story about how his current girlfriend not even knowing who he was.
http://tinyurl.com/Zito-article
Maris got booed, Mantle got booed. Some people are just idiots.
Speaking of team accomplishments, how much of an injustice would it be if Pujols is robbed of the NL MVP award becase the writers usually ignore guys from teams that don’t make the postseason? It’s not A-Poo’s fault that the 24 guys around him aren’t that good. The bottom line is that there is a huge gap between A-Poo’s performance level and that of the next best hitters in the NL.
Thanks for the Zito link, Mel. Parts of that sounds like the issues Rodriguez deals with…thinking too much, or out thinking himself, the contract issues.
Pat Jordan is an outstanding writer. I’ve read a lot of his books, some funny, some not, but, always good. He was a big bonus baby with the Milwaukee Braves in the late 50′s early 60s. He got hurt and just never made it.
Here’s another of his writings. Enjoy.
http://www.slate.com/id/2190955/pagenum/all/
Some people on this board are a MESS. If Alex Rodriguez is such a bad player how come he is one of ONLY two who have been able to hit 30+ Hrs, 100+ Rbis and score 100+ runs in 11 straight seasons? If that is so easy to do why hasn’t anyone else besides Lou done it?
~If everyone on the Yankees put up the same kind of numbers Arod did…..we’d be playing in the post season.
~Someone mentioned salary, should we boo that person as well for all the money they make? I’m pretty sure we can a few million people in the world who thinks HE’s overpaid.
~Speaking of overpaid why does the guy who every year puts of 30 HR, 100 RBI and Runs get booed but the guy who makes $23 mil (and will cost $5 mil NOT to keep him next year) not get booed for batting less than .250, with less HRs, RBI, and Runs??
~Someone said Mantle has what 12 title ans ARod has none? Interesting can you show me the titles Mantle one all by himself? I can’t recall those series..
~How in the world do the fans boo a player for getting an out when the team is WINNING the game?
~Do people honestly believe that Joe Creede is the ONLY reason that White Sox and in the hunt LOL…please
Right off the bat Arod is one of the greatest players to ever play the game. But he is a mental case. He listens to what people say too much, and reads the papers. His personal life is a train wreck. He puts an enormous amount of pressure on himself to perform at a high level. When he’s in the clutch, he wants to hit homeruns out of the park, and instead hits the ball to third base. He has great ability, his physical game is flawless. His mental game has holes. The question is how to fix that. Obviously, having a family didn’t work. Having one of the best players managers in Torre didn’t work for all of those seasons. None of the other players or coaches have an answer either. Plain and simple, this guy needs some psycho therapy to deal with life and pressure situations. Some guys like Jeter, thrive in pressure, but look at his life. A stable family situation, his Mom and Dad are at games to support him. He made a personal decision not to get married and have a family, and chooses to date starlets and such. But you’ve never seen him plastered over the front page of the News and Post like Arod. It’s his mental approach. Jeter let’s stuff slide off his back. Arod just carries it around like extra weight. Last year, when Arod won MVP, he was hitting clutch all season (Up until the playoffs), but he wasn’t pressuring himself as much. This year, there’s more pressure, with the family, and the contract, and all of the hoopla at the Staduim. This guy needs to get his life straightened out in the off-season, and get as little publicity as possible while doing it. His statements should be “Please respect my family’s privacy,” and that’s it. Then come back next season with a clean slate, and ready to play. And stop hanging out with Madonna & Lenny Kravitz, please. They can’t possibly be anyone’s friend, let alone Arod.
Matsui isn’t helping the team by playing. Get the surgery and give him a 1B glove.
Seriously, great point. Don’t blame just A-Rod cause the whole team has been inconsistant.
Braintrust
Unless you know the players personally, you are making assumptions about their lives that you have no way of knowing to be true.
The comments from armchair GMs here are sometimes tough to read through but the comments of armchair psychologists are always tough to read through.
The main thing I can’t understand about booing A-Rod, is all of it isn’t his fault.
Not his fault Hughes and Kennedy sucked.
Not his fault Wang got hurt
Not his fault Cano, Giambi and Melky have had sub-par years
Not his fault that the rotation has been pieced together by the likes of Rasner and Ponson
Not his fault the Rays and Red Sox have been good this year.
Is some of the blame go on A-Rod for this year, sure. But all of it, no way. He’s having another good year, and itwould be even better had he not gone on the dl. He’d be around 40 HR’s, 120 RBI had he not gotten hurt, and probably, the Yanks would be in a better position. 20 something games without your clean-up hitter can hurt you, and it did.
I have been a big advocate for not booing A-Rod since he came to the Yankees, but after the way he behaved this off-season, I think he lives or dies by his performance. He is the only guy making $30M/Year, after opting out of his contract with the Yankees (during the WS no less), with the promise of carrying the Yankee offense. Now, his ‘wilt like a daisy’ response to pressure seems to have infested the entire lineup.
I’m sure he’ll have a monster year next year, since he does that every other season. He will never be loved by Yankee fans. If that is what he needs, he should have signed with Seattle or San Diego.
Tom, I’m sorry but the numbers don’t tell the tale. How many clutch hits has A-Rod had? How many games has he made a difference in? Look at Pedroia, or Drew, or any of the other guys on the Sox who stood up when one of the big sluggers on that team went down. I hate the Red Sox, but their guys get it. 20 something games without your clean up hitter? How many games since Manny was traded? How many games did Ortiz miss? How clutch were guys like Drew, Pedroia, Bay, Varitek etc when they needed to be?
Pedroia does not seed a special coach to remind him to play hard, and Drew didn’t need a team of therapists to help him figure out that his team needed him to put up some numbers. A-Rod was too busy sneaking into Madonna’s service elevator to notice what real baseball players were up to.
“Some people on this board are a MESS. If Alex Rodriguez is such a bad player how come he is one of ONLY two who have been able to hit 30+ Hrs, 100+ Rbis and score 100+ runs in 11 straight seasons? If that is so easy to do why hasn’t anyone else besides Lou done it?”
Yawn, more Arod seasonal stats to bore everybody to death. Note to all Arod apologists on this board:
We get the stats thing! Terrific, he put up marvelous stats during the regular season. Putting up great stats does not, I repeat, DOES NOT add diddly to team success. If it did, the 1962 Philadelphia Warriors, with Wilt Chamberlain averaging 50 pts a game would have won the NBA title.
That’s the only argument you have, his regular season stats. But you can’t measure clutch hits, you can’t measure what effect a player has on a team’s chemistry, and you can’t measure a player’s effectiveness under pressure, you just see it. And what I see of Alex Rodriguez is an over-hyped superstar who puts up great regular season numbers, but can’t hack it under pressure; whether that pressure occurs during a regular season game, or a game in the playoffs – the guy is a choke under pressure, period. END OF DISCUSSION! GET OVER IT!
“Someone said Mantle has what 12 title ans ARod has none? Interesting can you show me the titles Mantle one all by himself? I can’t recall those series”
Mickey Mantle won 7 championships out of 12 W.S. appearances. He carried that team through many W.S. games with his home runs and clutch rbi’s. I personally watched him win game 3 of the 1964 W.S. with a walk off home run in the bottom of the ninth. Alex Rodriguez can’t even get his teams into a World Series much less carry them during one.
I will tell you straight out, without Mickey Mantle the Yankees don’t win half of those WS games, and I’m not even talking about the pennants he helped them win.
Do me, and everybody on this board a favor, stop with the Mantle comparisons, you only make yourself look like an idiot!
Hey Pepitone you are right on point about ARod. The guy has all the talent in the world but is one of the biggest non clutch performers in baseball history when you compare talent to production in high pressure situations.For a guy who puts up the stats he does to perform so putridly in the playoffs is mindboggling.It almost seems like the team takes his lead and he continually deflates them with his underwhelming play. He gets paid to be the go to guy yet comes up short more times than he should. If you watch the games and are totally honest with yourself you can’t possibly defend this guy when it comes to leading this team. I agree he not the only one but he’s supposed to be the leader and when it comes time to put up or shut up the image i see most from ARod is the obsessive gum chewing on his way back to the dugout after another frustratingly impotent at bat in an important spot.
Hey Pat,
How am I making assumptions about Arod when his life is front page news, and he wears his heart on his sleeve, and reacts to situations in public like a child. It’s all obvious stuff.