A few random thoughts on the Yankees
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 17, 2008 
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These are some interesting baseball times in New York, aren’t they?
* This could be the last week we see Jason Giambi, Bobby Abreu, Mike Mussina or Andy Pettitte in pinstripes. The Yankees also will bid a not-so-fond farewell to Carl Pavano, Pudge Rodriguez, Sidney Ponson and some of the other dreck. The team photo could look a lot different next season.
* Is Brian Cashman getting ready for next season or polishing up his resume? Depending who you believe, he thinks he can make it work with the Brothers Steinbrenner or he wants out. Based only on dealing with the guy on a daily basis, Cashman has been different this season, a little looser, a little more glib. But I can’t tell whether that suggests he’s comfortable where he is or halfway out the door.
* Based on his interactions with the media the last two days, Joe Girardi’s friendly twin brother Jimmy Girardi has taken over the team. Maybe he has accepted the reality of the situation or maybe somebody got in his ear, but Girardi was candid about the Cano situation and other matters, even injuries!
As I have said all along, this is no dope. Hopefully he realizes that playing Spy vs. Spy with the writers really doesn’t benefit anybody in the long run. Girardi could be exactly what this team needs in a manager if they go young. Hopefully these last two days aren’t a mirage.
* I really can’t describe to you how mad Mariano Rivera is. He looks like he wants to strangle his teammates. The guy has one of the best seasons of his career and he’s going home on Sept. 28.
* A-Rod has been a ghost for about a week. The rest of the Yankees dutifully made themselves available to praise Jeter last night and he vanished. He’s 3 for 15 on the homestand.
* Here’s the deal with Andy Pettitte. Either he’s finished or this is all residue of a winter spent embroiled in the drug scandal and a sore shoulder. He wants to play again next season, he’s made that pretty clear. Tough call for the Yankees. I’d say let him walk, don’t offer arbitration then offer him $8 million to come back as a No. 4 or No. 5 starter.
* The Moose has to return, if only because he has learned how to pitch off a diminished fastball. He can do what he is doing now for another three years. But if he decided to retire off a good season and go tune up cars the rest of his life, I would not be shocked. Winning 300 games does not mean anything to him.
* Girardi has to know he needs to change the coaching staff. That said, Dave Eiland and Kevin Long stay. They know what they are doing and only the uninformed criticize Long. Everybody else should be in play. And if the Mets collapse and go looking for a manager, it should be Tony Pena.
* The Yankees have two choices long term: Build through the draft and do it right or spend nine years patching it together and watching A-Rod chase down Bonds and making the playoffs on occasion. They need to build a program, not a series of teams. The most important players in this organization are Austin Jackson, the kids in Charleston and guys like Mark Melancon, Joba and Phil. Doing fantasy drafts of free agents hasn’t worked for eight years.
* Kind of funny that Joe Torre and the Dodgers are rolling into the postseason by beating up on Ross Ohlendorf and Jeff Karstens. As one of my associates said last night, Torre probably walked by Karstens and said, “Hey, Darrell, good to see you.”
“Hey, Darrell, good to see you.â€
Thanks for the laugh.
wow the season starts on 4/6?
As one of my associates said last night, Torre probably walked by Karstens and said, “Hey, Darrell, good to see you.â€
Ha!
I really can’t describe to you how mad Mariano Rivera is. He looks like he wants to strangle his teammates. The guy has one of the best seasons of his career and he’s going home on Sept. 28.
I can understand the anger that Mo has.
Girardi has to know he needs to change the coaching staff.
Adios Meacham!
I find it ironic that you criticize girardi for not being forthcoming regarding injuries when you root for the pats.
This offseason is Going to be a wild ride. How long will it take for Cashmann to decide his fate? I would hope it happens quickly. The team needs a GM.
As much as it pains me to say this, i think Andy’s time is up here.
No question that Andy has been playing hurt. I’m still wondering why Girard, who said he was going to skip Andy in the rotation in August, never did.
Retaining Andy and Mussina through 1 year with options is the way to go.
Girardi needs to learn how to get the kids going like Torre did.
Really disappointed in how poorly Girardi managed this year to the point that he should truly be shown the door.
I have a question Pete…
No-one. EVER. Mentions Rob Thomson.
It’s like he never existed. I appreciate that a bench coach isn’t necessarily a high profile job, but considering Girardi’s clear need for more advice in running the team, I’m curious to know why Thomson is so completely and utterly invisible.
Pete does have a point about Girardi withholding injury reports. Why do it? There is absolutly nothing gained by not being truthful regurading a players injury. This isn’t football or playoff hockey, where a player’s injurie can be exploited during the game
“Winning 300 games does not mean anything to him.”
Pete –
This runs counter to what Moose has said recently in an interview with Sweeney on the FAN and in other outlets.
While I agree with your implication that he doesn’t want to hang around and limp to the finish line, Moose has expressed on more than one occasion that 300 does mean something to him.
Why would Arod want to stick around and kiss up to a guy who has never stood up for him in the past?
Pete – another in a long line of terrific posts.
I think this sums up the Yankees situation pretty succinctly. The good news is, is that with the Yankees resources ($$$) these issues are all potentially fixable. You want Larry Bowa back in the fold? Offer him a Kevin Long style contract ($1M/3 years, I think, which is reportedly unheard of for coaches), and overpay if you have to, he’s worth it. You want Moose back? Recruit him, heavily, just like he’s CC, with an appropriate deal. Starting pitching? Go after it with CC and whomever else. Develop the farm system pipeline, using SELECT FAs now (like CC and AJ). Get more athletic. We know what needs to happen.
Finally, the last paragraph about Joe Torre says a lot. His potentially referring to Jeff Karstens as “Darrell” speaks volumes as to the reality of Jeff’s tenure with the team, and the state of the Yankees.
Beyond Teixeira, the Yankees could attempt to trade for Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, or Adam LaRoche. As far as team control, Howard and Fielder have three years, LaRoche one. It’s tough to see the Phillies or Brewers making a deal without Phil Hughes. A couple of other possible trade candidates include Garrett Atkins, Lyle Overbay, Nick Johnson, and Todd Helton.
Ryan Howard sucks at 1B and make Giambi look like a gold glover. He’s like Adam Dunn, who leading the league in strike outs and more of a DH type in the AL.
Prince Fielder would be awesome but not athletic enough to play 1B, again he would make Giambi look like a gold glover. DH type in the AL.
Adam LaRoche – c’mon, he doesn’t come out until after the All-Star break.
Lyle Overbay – like the Blue Jays would trade within the division.
Todd Helton, by trading for him isn’t the right direction of “getting younger”.
My 1B trade canadiates would be: Victor Martinez (good OBP, and the Indians are using him as 1B anyway since the emergence of Kelly Shoppach), Chris Davis, Joey Votto, Ryan Garko.
A couple of points re: your points:
The “new” Girardi? Thank Michael Kay, David Cone, Tino Martinez and Paul O’Neill. I hear those guys spent some quality time with him recently about how to go about his business. Not just with the media but, with the team in general. Looks like it did some good.
Mariano? Funny you should mention his anger. I know one of his business partners quite well. He gave me an earful on my last trip to the stadium as far as just how mad he is. It ain’t pretty and he’s naming names.
If Cashman comes back, or the new GM, I suggest he has a sitdown with Mariano ASAP. Mariano comes off as a nice, God-Fearing guy. However, the guy is a KILLER as a competitor and his viewpoints about this team, and what they have to do in the future, are spot on.
Whomever is in the “big chair” next year would be wise to take his opinions under advisement.
Pete, successful Yankee teams under the Steinbrenner Family have always been built the same way: 20% home grown, 40% through trade, 40% through free agency. That’s not changing. Nor should it.
What HAS to change are the choices they make. Simply put, they have to do a better job choosing who they keep, who they trade, who they sign via free agency, and who they draft.
How to do that? With more experienced and qualified baseball people in the decisionmaking process.
I’m not talking about the Tampa Mafia. I’m talking about an organization of top baseball minds. How do you know you have them? When other teams are calling you in the off-season to ask permission to speak to your people.
That’s happening in Cleveland, Boston, and Arizona every year. It ain’t happenin’ with the Yankees. That has to change.
I like Brian Cashman a lot. I think he is a very bright guy and he has done a solid job in the toughest job in sports.
That said, he needs more beef around him. Tino was a start. Tino is getting a lot more run within decisionmaking circles and I hope that continues. He needs more than Tino though.
I don’t know if Hal and/or Hank agree but, the baseball side of this operation needs more people. If Cash comes back, and they beef up the baseball ops side of the business, they will be ok.
If not, it will be the same hit or miss decisionmaking that has plagued this franchise for the last 5 years.
Arod? Cut him a break. The personal stuff is at the forefront right now.
The coaching staff? Agree on Long and Eiland. I think the staff needs another in your face guy. Could be Tino, if he decides he wants to be in uniform again.
Either way, they need a guy willing to jack someone up. Aside from Pena, they don’t have that on the present staff.
Andy? As with a lot of players from the Dynasty Years, its tough to say goodbye but, you have to. If he is hurt, that’s a shame. If he’s not, he’s done.
Either way, unless he’s willing to take a monster paycut, you can’t bring him back.
They need to sign two of CC, Sheets and Burnett, IMO. If they do, and you add Joba, Wang and Moose to the mix (with Phil in AAA ready to go), that’s your six starters going into 2009.
Use Andy’s money toward the FA pitchers and to upgrade others spots on the team.
*Thanks (for nothing), Jason.
*Cashman stays.
*Got to get over the Girardi thing, Pete. He’s a good guy. And shame on you for talking about spies.
*Hope A-rod doesn’t scare the ghosts away
*Agreed. Let Andy rest and see if he can pitch. He deserves it. Moose had a great bounceback year after dealing with what he calls injuries.
*Try for 300 or spend hours doing crossword puzzles? We’ll see if he really is a creature of habit.
*Agreed on Pena. Interesting that they haven’t dealt with Manuel’s status.
*Stick with the kids and do smart signings. Get 2 big FA pitchers and focus on defense, which we need. Jackson will be up soon. And we’ll have a bumper crop of pitching soon, too.
*lol @ the Darrell joke. Karstens, Rasner, Wright. Couldn’t be more similar.
i love tony pena and he reallyy does a nice job with the catchers
“The Yankees have two choices long term: Build through the draft and do it right or spend nine years patching it together and watching A-Rod chase down Bonds and making the playoffs on occasion. They need to build a program, not a series of teams. The most important players in this organization are Austin Jackson, the kids in Charleston and guys like Mark Melancon, Joba and Phil. Doing fantasy drafts of free agents hasn’t worked for eight years.”
This is dumb. We’re not the Minnesota Twins or the Oakland A’s. We’re the New York Yankees. We’re a large market team that can afford dumb contracts and buy small market team players. We make or made the playoffs every year. Even this team was playoff capable but because of poor managing, coaching and the lack of moves midseason, here we are.
Winning the World Series isn’t about being the best team anymore if you haven’t noticed. It’s about who’s the hottest through that October month.
Going younger isn’t going to mean anything. I don’t understand the thinking behind this. What they need to do is to build not only for the postseason but during it to. The team has to be set up for the short series, which it hasn’t been.
and Fire Girardi, get somebody else, someone with experience and someone that’s able to get into peoples faces all season.
Pete -
Good post. some good things to think about there.
SJ44 -
As usual, some good insights there. Although you’re a tease – now I’d love to know what Mariano is saying, but of course, curiosity killed the cat and I’ll let sleeping dogs lie (what an awful mixed metaphor!!).
I’m assuming you’re thinking of Tino as an adjunct to the GM, as opposed to the field manager?
If Girardi has, as you indicated, sat down and spoken with (or listened to) all the people you named above, then Girardi is going to be fine. I’d be leery of a guy who won’t take advice, who is not open to some (I’m sure) criticism, as well.
I would like to hope that the Yankees see the problem within as well as the obvious ones on the field. If they want to continue to make money, i.e., compete, they’ll make the necessary changes. I think if they’re willing to make organization changes, then Cashman will stay. If the first thing out of their mouths is “here’s a blank check to sign X, Y, Z free agetns,” I’m not so sure about that.
I’m very anxious to see what’s going to unfold after the World Series.
When the coaching staff for Girardi was named, the selection of Eiland was justified on his relationships with the pitchers who worked with him successfully in the minors – namely Hughes, Joba, and IPK.
If we were to assess his success on that basis alone – I think we all know that he wouldn’t be on the staff next year. But the bullpen outperformed my expectations this year and you can’t ignore what the injuries did to the rotation. I guess I am not as sold on him as others seem to be.
Meacham is a no brainer – seeya. Especially if Lawrence Robert Bowa still has the desire to be on our staff (with his high-voltage cattle prod)
As for the other members, I really don’t have a strong opinion – Long is on a 3 yr contract so he’s coming back. BTW – multiple year contracts for untested coaches coming to the organization should be strictly prohibited imo.
mel,
I saw your post earlier about women’s soccer. As a season-ticket holder for the last league, I can’t believe I haven’t heard about the new one.
Who got Abby Wambach?
SJ44,
What names is he naming? It would be great to hear from inside who is not holding up their end. I know I feel like Cano, Giambi, Melky, and a few others have had unacceptable performances. Some have been injured or just had down years, and that happens, but the lax attitudes and the “it didn’t happen today, no big deal, we’ll try again tomorrow” seems to pervade too much of the clubhouse.
Re: SJ44′s comments about the baseball end of the FO – I hope Cash doesn’t turn into a modern day version of Al Harazin, the GM who thought he could do it all for the Mets in the 90s. Baseball has changed since the days of Branch Rickey and George Weiss.
Why do fans think getting in a players face automatically makes said player play better?
And I always find it funny when fans call for managers and GM’s to be fired. In some cases yes, a change can be beneficial. But are there any teams out there that are actually happy with their managers? And I mean this for all sports. I still hear Redsox fans who rip Francona, we saw Yankee fans demand for Torre to be fired for years as well. The only manager that is liked by his fans is Mike Scioscia, which might not be true since i don’t know many Angles fans, but I’m sure there are some somewhere that are saying “anyone could win with this team”.
Opening the new stadium with CLEVELAND. Wow that should be great. Couldn’t the schedule makers throw Boston in there. Now we would have a circus.
“And shame on you for talking about spies.”
Nice.
I am curious whether Rivera’s ideas about improving the team are along the lines of “make Joba a reliever,” “Cano needs to stop being lazy,” “the team lacks heart,” or similar drivel that we’ve heard 1000 times, or if he knows something no one else does.
Sorry to hear he’s so upset, but these things happen. He’s had one of the greatest careers for a reliever and he’s got a humungous contract that no other team would have considered giving him. He was also one of the reasons we lost the 2001 WS and 2004 ALCS. Nobody’s perfect. Relax Mo, we’ll get ‘em next year.
Over the 5 years, Mussina has turned in three poor seasons and two good ones. One truth about the good years were that they were both contract years. I’d be careful what I’d offer him. I’d try to get him for a year and make him sing for his supper yet again. Two max.
Eiland did a real good job with the staff this year. He’s the guy who was able to convince Moose to change his style.
He also has a good handle on how to manage a bullpen and his work with the younger arms will pay off in the long run.
He’s not the problem with the team.
You need guys like Eiland as pitching because they get the struggle. Too many “name” guys don’t get it and that’s not good.
You need a guy who can break down mechanical flaws, kick butt when necessary, and also put an arm around a guy (especially a young guy) who is struggling.
All in all, he’s probably the best pitching coach they had since Mel was on top of his game.
*the PAST 5 years
E-man – I disagree with your post. Look at the Detroit Tigers. They’re similar to the Yankees in roster makeup – high-priced vets with big resumes, big name batters, and they also disappointed in a major way this year. Even with Jim Leyland barking at them, in public, on a regular basis.
I agree with everything you said, Pete.
Bobby Meacham gotta go. Bowa please come back
Bring Cash back.
Moose definitely deserves to be brought back. He’d be heck of a #3 starter. Andy, not so much – if we can have him back for cheap then he’d be a very stable #4/5 guy.
I’m not too high on Burnett/Sheets, but we need to do whatever it takes to get Sabathia. Throw money at him.
The starting staff next year will probably look like this:
Sabathia, Wang, Moose, Joba, Pettitte/Hughes
That’s a very formidable staff.
“Pete, successful Yankee teams under the Steinbrenner Family have always been built the same way: 20% home grown, 40% through trade, 40% through free agency. That’s not changing. Nor should it.”
AMEN.
I don’t see Eiland as anything special as a pitching coach. Scott Aldred would be better suited. Eiland had Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain for a short time, so not enough time to screw them up.
Outstanding comments Pete,,,, you nailed it all
“Why do fans think getting in a players face automatically makes said player play better?”
Obviously it depends on exactly how it is handled, but any organization which fosters a culture where people are compelled to take responsibility for their performance and become accountable for the way they conduct themselves is healthier than one where this doesn’t happen.
The vast majority of it should be done behind the scenes.
Players should police themselves – when they don’t the manager should step in, but the best teams seem to always have a strong personality player or players who demand maximum effort from their teammates.
Yelling at players all the time accomplishes nothing. Its not football.
After awhile, guys (see Robinson Cano) just tune you out.
You win with guys who hate losing more than they like winning.
That’s what seperates the Dynasty Teams from this one.
The key is to find those players. In today’s baseball, that ain’t easy.
Big money makes a lot of players more tolerant toward losing.
For every Jeter, Posada and Rivera, you have a bunch of guys who may not like losing but, it doesn’t eat them up.
Until those numbers change within the team, its going to be a struggle.
What the Yankees need to aim for is an organization that doesn’t DEPEND on free agent signings to get them out of a hole. They need to have something in the system to sustain them. There should be enough in the system for that purpose, and to trade if necessary, and to be future contributors to the major league team. Right now, it’s a little rag-tag, but based on all that I’ve read this summer, it seems like it’s on the right track at least. Now, they need to keep it going. Solidify the foundation.
I think winning the World Series in consecutive years is awfully difficult, but I think that it is a reasonable and achievable goal to win your division and get at least to the league playoff each year. Luck, injuries and hot/cold streaks will always have a part, but if the team is built correctly, it is doable, I think. Beginning with starting pitchers who can give you innings, so that the bullpen is preserved for the long haul, and ending with athletic players who can give you good defense to support the pitchers, and a quality bench that can give the everyday lineup a break every now and then to preserve them for the long haul, that seems to me to be a recipe for having a very realistic chance of getting to the post season.
The Yankees have missed a lot of that. If they made it through the season, even winning between 90-95 games, by the time the post season rolled around, they were running on empty. In my opinion.
Girardi’s ideas were good – resting and rotating Damon, Matsui, Giambi; having more defined roles for the bullpen arms, keeping all of them in play. However, he didn’t have the right horses. Whether through injury or otherwise, the manpower wasn’t there. The bench was not great to begin with, and once the injuries happened, well, there was no bench. And some of the everyday players just didn’t do what they were asked to do. It was like going from your “A” team to your “C” team most of the time. And no consistency all year.
“E-man – I disagree with your post. Look at the Detroit Tigers. They’re similar to the Yankees in roster makeup – high-priced vets with big resumes, big name batters, and they also disappointed in a major way this year. Even with Jim Leyland barking at them, in public, on a regular basis.”
They’re a small market team. They can’t afford to make mistakes and that’s why they finished the way they did.
Clare,
Here’s the link: http://www.womensprosoccer.com/
Everyone here’s “clare”voyant. I love it! You guys know what Giradi does and doesn’t do. You know for a fact that Jeter hasn’t yelled at Cano. (see Jack Curry’s entry @ the NY Times “Bats” blog.) Jeter tells Curry he doesn’t do things for the camera like others do.
This is probably what happened. Girardi, Jeter, and whoever else matters got on Cano. Worked, but not for long. Just like yelling at your teenage kid. The last play was the last straw. The only way to get through to the kid was to embarrass him. Benching, big show of disgust to the writers, players actually commenting. It’s a problem and they’re trying to address it. Not to get wins. To make Robi a better player.
“Mussina has turned in three poor seasons and 2 good ones”
I think that if you look around baseball, that is not unusual for even top starters. We will likely see 3 good years and 2 so-so out of whoever we sign this offseason. Most starters just don’t have great year after great year. Beckett has had one great year, one poor year, and one so-so in Boston. Halladay has had 2 great years following several injury plagued years. Verlander had a great rookie year, has been mediocre since. Aside from Maddux, Glavine, and Randy Johnson, all in the NL, most pitchers will not turn in 5 or 6 great years in a row.
Here is Francesa talking about his true love: Bronson Arroyo
Last line was funny Pete.
The Tigers aren’t a small market team. Their payroll was over 135 million bucks and Mike Illich is one of the wealthiest owners in the game.
Market size is really determined more by how much an owner wants to spend than the market size itself. Illich was willing to spend big money this year.
Rumor has it, he wants to cut the payroll down to between 100-105 million for next year.
If that’s the case, that probably takes them out of the running for CC and KRod.
Since they basically blew up their farm system in the off-season, its going to be interesting to see how they piece it together for 2009.
The difference between this team and the “dynasty teams” is the rotation. Nothing more than that.
“They’re a small market team. They can’t afford to make mistakes and that’s why they finished the way they did.”
When exactly did the Tigers become a small market team?
I think you already see the change taking place. The drafts of the last five years are beginning to pay dividends. Some of the trades made the last two years are beginning to work out. Some of the IFA are kicking butt. I have said this a hundred times this year. The pitching from the above is ahead of the hitting by about two years. Look at them without the emotion:
Joba, Phil – both have the potential to be tremendous pitchers despite some potential negatives (but there is no perfect prospect).
Coke, De le Rosa, Banuelos give us some lefties to really pay attention to.
Brackman is coming back. Garcia is a tease but hopefully moves forward. Kennedy, Wright, Pope, Heredia, Betances, Vizcaino, Macallister are all moving as planned (some by larger leaps). Brett Marshall looks seriously studly and Bleich could move fast.
Mo, Melancon, Veras, Bruney, Marte, Coke, Cox, Sanchez, Stephen Jackson, Anthony Claggett perhaps Kontos can form one of the most dynamic and sans Mo cost effective pens in the entire game.
Cano is young and full of talent. Does he have the desire?
Nady will be a starting corner outfielder next year.
Jackson is really solidifying himself as the center fielder circa 2010. Gardner, Melky, Christian or Carson can be a very nice fourth outfielder for the team.
Was there any team that hit better than Charleston. Montero, Suttle and Laird could probably be big league hitters within a year or two. Romine has been outstanding.
Deleon and Sosa tore up the DSL and should head stateside.
Much, Much money is coming off the books.
The checkbook will be open for new talent.
Even this year had some serious setbacks to my eyes there has been a well thought out plan for the last 3-4 years that continues to remake this team. Despite all of the horror (look at who has pitched in 55 games this year) the Yankees can still potentially finish 5th in the league by record.
I don’t think things are as bad for the Yankees as they are for AIG at the moment.
“Here is Francesa talking about his true love: Bronson Arroyo”
The nightmare continues . . .
SA, whats Francesa saying about Arroyo?
Um Tom, say you know a player has a injured knee you can pitch him inside. You know a weakness. Of course something can be gained.
Bottom line— We need to win next year. New stadium, coming off a non-playoff year, $88 million off the books, a good FA class, and now a team full of angry/disgruntled player.
Nobody is saying you have to stop rebuilding and trade Hughes, Joba, Jackson, Melancon, Romine etc. but you have to put a legit title contending team on the field next year and slowly incorporate those guys into the team… not depend on them and have false expectations and build the team around them.
SJ44,
I do not think lack of spirit, heart, drive, scrappiness, grit, will to win, or Mystery Winning Element X is a problem with this team. For the vast majority of players, there’s no question that they hate losing and are busting their asses to win. Can you think of anyone besides Cano and Melky for whom this is even an issue?
Here’s the main difference between this team and the Dynasty Teams:
The Dynasty Teams had great starting pitching. This team has one good starter.
Jennifer, you saw that very thing with Jeter for a good part of the summer. Pitchers jammed him hard inside with fastballs because of a bad hand and pitchers/managers knew it. That’s a major reason for the drop in extra base hits.
StandingO’Neill -It was just right before they went to break, but he mentioned how well he did very last night and how HE wanted Arroyo back when he had only 5 wins..
Can you feel the love..
Its much more than the rotation.
Its the offense, defense, bench and attitude.
The offense is not versatile. They are poor situational hitters, don’t advance runners and, if they aren’t hitting HR’s, aren’t scoring runs.
This a poor defensive team. The Dynasty Teams were outstanding defensive teams. A big reason why the pitching was so good. Guys made plays behind them.
The bench? Please, compare benches from the Dynasty Years to this one. Its not even close.
Attitude? This team had a glass jaw. You hit them, they went down. They also felt sorry for themselves for too much of the season.
The Dynasty Teams didn’t spend time feeling sorry for themselves. They dealt with injuries, cancer, death, the NY media, all of it, and kept pressing on.
You never heard those team whine about the schedule, night getaway games, etc. This one? That’s all they talked about.
The Dynasty Teams were full of tough SOB’s. This one? not so much. This is a very soft team. The Dynasty Teams were not.
Enormous differences between those teams and this one.
Great post Pete.
The Darrel/Karstens line is classic.
And considering how Coke looks so far, I think we still got the best of that trade for now.
As for the coaching staff, Bobby Meachem was an mistake prone player for the Yanks in the 80′s who showed little to no passion. He kind of still seems the same as a coach.
Girardi got his chance to pick his guys and it’s not worked. I hope if it’s Cash, he realizes the bench coach/3rd base coach need an overhaul.
And I don’t think for a second that the Wilpons would hire another Yankee coach for Mets manager.
I think if the Mets continue to gag, Manuel goes and a real veteran presence type manager comes in. I also think the Mets fanbase will want Reyes head on a platter.
The silver lining of Andy pitching this poorly is his price is going down for the Yanks and his pride factor is going up. I can’t imagine the big donkey wants to go out like this and I, for one, give him a chance to come back at a severely reduced rate. 8-10 million with performance bonuses built in is a fair offer.
As for Mo, he should be pissed and I hope he lets some of these dogs who stay around for next season know about it.
To be his age and have such a dominant season only to see it go to waste…I think he knows he had playoff closing clinching stuff this year.
I’d rather go into the spring with CC, Wang, AJ, Moose or Pettitte and Joba in the rotation with Hughes (if he’s not traded) sitting there in the 6th spot waiting for his shot.
The thing is… all of our eggs are in the CC Sabathia basket.
If he doesn’t come here, then we have to settle for the question marks like Burnett, Perez, Sheets. Those guys are the types of FA signings that got us in this mess to begin with. But if we don’t sign them, then where do we go for pitching? We can’t possibly go into the new stadium with the same broken down rotation we had this year.
Payroll isn’t the only factor in market size. It’s also the amount of people that watch the games (TV). Detroit can be called “medium” if you want to get PC but they’re not a large market.
The reason he’s cutting down payroll is because he’s losing money.. and lets face it, it’s still a hockey town.
Mark:
My point is when the money was on the line, he somehow found a way to pitch decently. Maybe it’s coincidence. I don’t know. But I’d be careful. Mussina has had an otherworldly season against lefties this year. He’s always been good against them, but nowhere near as good as he was this year (a ridiculous sub .600 OPS against). Righthanded bats on the other hand have hit .300+ off him for the 4th time in five years (.322 with an .870 OPS this year). I’d be concerned about whether the lefty numbers were lightning in a bottle and whether he can be as effective again.
“When exactly did the Tigers become a small market team?”
When you compare the 5 million people watching their games to the 20+ million people watching the Yankees games.
E-Man –
Detroit is the #11 media market in the country.
BUT 5 of the top 10 have 2 teams. It is a big market team.
see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....dia_market
I think we’d all like CC & AJ in the rotation.
Does Vegas have odds? If I were a betting person, I’d say AJ pitches in New York. A little birdie told me he wants to come here. haha.
The fact of the matter is that we have one legit starter for next season. Wang. Who just played catch this week. I’m hoping that Hughes can figure it out at the major league level so he can contribute if needed. Jennings said he’s never seen anyone as ready as Phil is right now. I’m hoping they went back to the basics with him.
“What the Yankees need to aim for is an organization that doesn’t DEPEND on free agent signings to get them out of a hole.”
Doreen, if this is what you want, then expect to wait 6 years or more to do it. The Farm is getting better, but there is a big hole in the position players area. Being near last in picks don’t help either, so the only way to change that is to stink for year like the Rays have.
FA’s are the only way to plug the holes without it costing prospects. Trades can help as well. No team is built only from within, you can’t get all the players you need that way.
Unless you think that Gardner and Christian and Ranson will be starters to fill the holes, where else do you get these players?
The Yankees had done fine in years past with the same approach. Sign the right players in FA. The biggest problem the Yankees had was evaluating the pitching and they ended up with Igawa, Pavano, Johnson, and so on.
CC, Burnett/ Sheets will help. Feed in the home grown arms when they are ready.
Girardi made a lot of mistakes this year. Fine, he gave rest to the older players, but it was almost always when they were hitting hot. There ended the hot streak. He might mature into a good manager, but he isn’t a good one right now. He was out managed in some games, he didn’t have the guts to sit Cano or Melky early enough when it might have done some good. Treating the team as if they are kids isn’t going to endear him to them. They are adults, capable of deciding if they want candy or ice cream or veggies.
BTW – off topic – there was a recent study done that showed that eatting too many vegitables and not enough meats shrinks the brain. The point here being that eating healthy might not be as healthy as first believed.
I think people get carried away with how much money is coming off the books. Everyone keeps saying, well that’s 90 million dollars gone, which isn’t exactly true:
Farnsworth/Pudge: 5.5 million
Giambi: 21m – 5m buyout = $16 million
Abreu: 16 million
Pettitte: 16 million
Mussina: 11 million
Pavano: 11m -1.95m buyout = $9.05 million
Grand Total of: $73.5 million
Now Nady can replace Abreu, but expect to see nady’s salary increase to around 6 million or more after arbitration. Wang should remain about the same at 4.5 million, Pavano could be brought back, but thats a long shot, Mussina will have to be resigned or replaced, and it will take all or more of that 11 million he made last year. pettitte could be brought back, but it should be at a significantly reduced amount. jeter’s salary goes up a million, Arod’s goes up 5 million, so there goes the Farnsworth money. Then toss in the big free agent they will get from the Giambi money (Tex or Sabathia) and the payroll should be about the same next year.
Am I missing anyone? At least after 2009 Damon and Matsui go and that clears 26 million.
I think it is good for Mariano to call out teammates who slacked off this season, or spent the season worrying about how to sneak into Madonna’s apartment, instead of avoiding DPs.
Although, Mariano needs to remember that he and his teammates would all have 2 more rings if not for his October melt-downs vs. Arizona and Boston.
With all of the money coming off the books, and all of the revenue expected to be generated by the new stadium, I don’t want to hear anything about them being ‘fiscally conservative’. They should throw 9-digit numbers at Teixeira and Sabathia, and sign everyone else they can get their grubby fingers on. What would be so bad about a spring training roster of Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, and Mussina, with the youngsters competing for the last spot or coming up when injuries dictate.
mel
Davidoff from Newsday also had interesting Jeter comments on his interactions with Cano and his feeling about dealing with teammates.
“I don’t tell the media who I talk to.”
When I asked if perhaps public criticism held value, particularly in an incident like this, Jeter said: “It was public yesterday. He was pulled out of the game. How much more public do you want it?”
Maybe a little more, I suggested, mindful of how offended teammates, opposing scouts and fans have been by Cano’s loafing.
“You write your story, then,” Jeter responded. “A little more? No. I don’t deal with teammates through the media.”
Jeter is who he is. You can’t crush him for something like this. He’s just not the sort of team captain who’s going to light someone up, publicly or, most likely, privately. Former teammates often use phrases such as “good guy but hard to get to really know” in describing the Yankees’ shortstop.”
Wish someone would call in and tell francesa that the credit for most of those wins now goes to pitching in the NL Central.
“When you compare the 5 million people watching their games to the 20+ million people watching the Yankees games.”
That doesn’t make Detroit a small market. Anyone looks small when you compare them to NY, a city that contains about 8 million plus people. NY is far beyond large market, they are in their own universe. Detroit compared to say KC makes them look huge as well.
fuhgoobagaz
You entirely missed my point. The aim is to buld to the point where you have a team that does not HAVE TO GO OUT AND GET FREE AGENTS simply because there is no other recourse.
Of course, especially this off-season they are going to have to rely on the free agent market to fill in the holes in the pitching staff. Of course they are going to have to trade some pieces to get better players.
I’m not stupid or unrealistic.
You want balance. In all areas.
“Although, Mariano needs to remember that he and his teammates would all have 2 more rings if not for his October melt-downs vs. Arizona and Boston.”
Does he?? Maybe he’ll get around to remembering that after those teammates give him a big sloppy kiss on the gluteus as thanks for the four rings they already have.
Offseason Priorities:
1. Pitching
2. Center Field
3. First Base
Center Field is a huge hole for the yankees right now. Something needs to be done about it ASAP. I know it’s Ajax’s future home but what do they do for next year.
First Base I don’t think the yankees a going to throw their resources around to get a young stud. I think they’ll go after a chad tracy type player.
Pitching, getting wang and joba back will help. CC too. Not sold on AJ–only makes 30 starts during contract years.
Standing O –
Hawkins, Ensberg and Betemit for another $6M. But your point is right in that we have to replace the guys that are leaving.
Plus, sitting one game shouldn’t necessarily end a hot streak, just as sitting a player who is cold doesn’t necessarily mean he’s going to come back hot.
Derek Jeter is one of the most respected players in the game by other players.
He’s right when he asks, “how do you know I don’t get in guys faces”? He does. He just doesn’t make it public.
Michael Jordan once punched Steve Kerr in the face during a practice and nobody knew about it until Sam Smith wrote about it in the Jordan Years.
In fact, nobody knew what Jordan was like inside the locker room until Sam wrote about it. It was the opposite of what many thought he was like among his teammates.
Jeter isn’t Jordan or Posada in the sense that he isn’t going to whack someone in the face like Posada once did with El Duque.
However, he does take his role on the team VERY seriously.
Thing is, you can’t MAKE a player play hard or focus. At some point, its up to the player to do so.
Yelling at him, jacking him up? Those have a place. But, when it has to be done all the time, it has no effect.
Derek Jeter is not the problem with the team. Nor are Posada or Mo for their comments.
It should show you that guys care about what’s going on with the team.
Last I checked, that’s a good thing.
fuhgoobagaz
Also, I didn’t say Girardi had a good year. I said he had some good ideas. He made some mistakes, but he did some things well.
And again – in your BTW – you missed the point. Eating healthy is a balance – too many veggies, not good; too much meat, not good.
pat,
He’s amazingly consistent isn’t he?
He’s someone you can trust, which is so hard these days in our lives, let alone in an intensely competitive environment like the Yankees.
That’s why I get disgusted when teammates say negative things about teammates, on or off the record. As if they’re perfect? You want to get something off your chest? Tell it to the wife or girlfriend, not a writer with a “don’t tell anyone I said that” caveat.
Good teams are built on trust. When the cracks in the facade started to show, it eroded rather quickly. And that goes down to character. A lot of guys jumped ship a little too early.
Fredo,
Beat me too it re: Mo.
Without Mo, they have ZERO rings, Joe Torre isn’t going to the Hall of Fame, and a LOT of guys from those teams would have to buy their own dinners in NY.
The last guy on this team who should be criticized for ANYTHING is Mariano Rivera. A lot of people have respect, awards, money and fame off his work.
Okay, if Cashman does bolt for Seattle or Philadelphia, who could we actually see as the next GM?
Dump Giambi & Damon, keep Abreu and make him the 5 hitter, trade a package of players for Matt Holliday and insert him into the 3 hole (2B Cano, SP McAlister & SP Kennedy).
It comes down to Sabathia. If you get him for the rotation, you can rely on him for a bunch of innings with Wang, you can afford to give the ball to Hughes every fifth day.
I think they need to have a spot starter in case Joba has to go back to the bullpen if there are health issues (Not Francesa reasoning).
SS Jeter
2B Hudson
LF Holliday
3B ARod
RF Abreu
C Posada
DH Matsui
1B Miranda / Veteran Player
CF Jackson
Bench: OF Gardner / INF Ransom / Molina / Extra Bat
SP: Mussina
SP: Joba
SP: Hughes
SP: Sabathia
SP: Wang
Bullpen:
RP: Rivera
RP: Melancon
RP: Veras
RP: Marte
RP: Coke (Spot Starter)
RP: Sanchez
RP: Bruney
Damon has more value than Matsui right now and you can turn Damon into some prospects…it depends on whether the Yankees believe Jackson (or Gardner) is ready to play everyday.
lol whatever.
It is stories like these that really make you appreciate baseball and everything it means
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09.....129526.htm
Doreen, what the heck is with you? You failed to make your supposed point, then go on the attack when someone calls you on it?
The point about the about the food is that Girardi DOESN’T GET THAT BALANCE MESSAGE. He is only on the “healthy food” stuff, and the players were unhappy with it. His conception isn’t quite right. For sports players, they need far more protein than the average person does because of the demands on their bodies. Meats don’t all have to contain fats. The human body is more set up as a carnivore, lack of meats can and do cause all kinds of problems.
As to the point about Girardi, I was speaking specifically to the points you made that you thought were good. Sitting Damon when he was hitting hot wasn’t a great idea. Resting the players didn’t keep them all healthy either, so it really is a wash.
The only thing that Girardi showed he did decently was bullpen management, and even that had flaws in it.
SS Jeter
2B Hudson
LF Holliday
3B ARod
RF Abreu
C Posada
DH Matsui
1B Miranda / Veteran Player
CF Jackson
LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAS
“Damon has more value than Matsui right now and you can turn Damon into some prospects’
Damon has a no trade clause. Even if he waived it, nobody is going to part with more than B-list prospects for one year of Damon at $13M.
phil should not be traded to me we dont need to sign texeira waist all that money on a first baseman just signed a millar type player we need sumbody to pump this team up for aour startin pitchers is hsould be like this
sabathia
burnett
wang
mussina
hughes
pen
sanchez
melacon
marte or coke
bruney
veras
aceves
joba
mo
i think cano will be fine i think he need to rest he played alot of winter ball in the dominican republic and he was terring the shyt out of the ball in winter ball so he needs go to the dominican republic with keving long and fix his swing next trade melky with edward ramirez and other minor leaguers and see wat we kan get
let giambi walk trade matsui get a prospect in return to me ill sign ramirez to a 2year deal and option year and let em play dh so he kan kill the sox
I think andy is done – he wanted to retire yrs ago and now he is talking bout coming back in early september off the worst yr of his career. That just rubs me the wrong way. I want Cash gone but at the very least surround him with baseball ppl that can educate him in the art of signing a good free agent pitcher – we havent signed a solid starter besides pettitte in yrss. Granted, some of that may be bad luck but not all of it is. Maybe, if the fans stopped booing arod for no reason he would be a little more likely to talk after the game. NY fans boggle my mind sometimes – only in ny will the best player in the sport be bood for everything he does. It is getting out of hand. We need CC or sheets or burnett on this team next yr or we will be going into next season with the same questionable rotation we had last yr – and yes, the rotation was iffy at best this spring training. I know Wang is hurt and hughes didnt come through at all but we added no starters last yr in an off season in which some of the best in the game swapped teams. We sat back and did almost nothing until nady and marte and by then, it was clearly too late. To me, we were questionable to make the playoffs at the start and finishing this bad is surprising but not shocking. Every team around us has been improving while we have been progressively getting worse – how is the gm not to blame for any of this? I have no idea but no one seems to think any of this is his fault no matter how many times cash says it is.
If you’d take a step back and look at the big picture. Girardi did better in his first year with the Yankees than the players did. Don’t forget that you lost two huge pieces.
Manager says no ice cream in the clubhouse? Don’t cry about it. Go home and and get one out of your Sub-Zero.
The fact is that some of the vets would have a problem with anyone not named Joe Torre walking through the door. Because there’d be change.
And I don’t even know why we’re talking about this. Joe Torre benched guys al the time. Against tough lefties. To get rest. He dropped Alex into the 8-hole. In a playoff game.
fuhgoobagaz
You jump on all my posts. All of them. And you don’t really read them.
I didn’t suggest that sitting Damon when he was hot was good. I said, the idea to rotate some of his players, Damon being one of them, was a good idea. The idea was good, the execution was not. And Damon hurt his shoulder running into a wall, but he didn’t go down with his usual littany of physical aches and pains; Matsui, well, his “other” knee broke down anyway; Giambi played a full season, most of the time at 1B, and didn’t suffer his usual littany of aches and pains.
It’s not that you disagree with me, I don’t agree with everyone either. It just seems to me that you don’t even want to give any credence to anything I write. You respond to my posts like I’m a 13 year old who’s never followed baseball before, and that is, I assure you, not the case.
And as far as healthy foods go, Girardi didn’t take away protein, he took away fats and sugar IN THE CLUBHOUSE. I assume that these guys are grownups and if they want fats and sugars after hours, they’re more than welcome to them. I never read anything to suggest that Girardi was forcing these guys to become vegetarians.
I agree with yankeefan – despite the obvious inconsistency with offense this yr – i still believe pitching is the major problem and is what should be address this off season (where we should put the most money this offseason)
What if Andy was pitching a perfect game on Sunday? Didn’t Mo say he wanted to pitch the last inning?
I know, never going to happen. But what if?
If Carl Pavano and Sidney Ponson are gone, why are we still using them? I, maybe ignorantly, say give more time to the other pitchers that may be around.
I cannot disagree with Pete Abe on who is important in the organization, but he has overlooked several people: Brackman, Montero, Romine, McAllister, Bentecis, Marshall, and Lassiter. I would let ALL of the Yankee free agents go (Mussina included), and sign Texieria or NO ONE (This will really get payroll under control), then I only have 1 more left of Damon and Matsui, and they will be looking good going forward. I do not want Sabathia with is West Coast attitude here (Let alone constantly injured types like Burnett or Sheets (They have PAVANO written all over them). I think we can contend in 2010, by going young/
What about Arugula? It’s a Veg-et-able
Honestly, the keys to the Yankees success next year are pending four key points.
1. Wang can be completely healthy and back to form, so with him
2. Resigning Brian Cashman
3. Either kicking Cano in the @$$, or trading him somewhere you can get away playing hard “99.9% of the time”
4. PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING
Honestly, the 4th point is all I care about. The Yankees could of gotten by this year with their offense if they had the pitching of the Rays, Red Sox, or Blue Jays.
FA wise, pursue CC and Big Tex, and possibly Burnett. Start the year with a roto of CC, Burnett, Wang, Hughes, and Moose. Moose, I see, will begin to break down towards the late months, and thats where Joba begins to come into the picture. Begin skipping Moose occasionally, and let Joba take his role, so Moose can avoid becoming vulnerable because of breaking down. Bullpen with Mo, Veras, Edwar, Coke, Melancon eventually I hope will be a good one.
Offensively, Either try and trade Cano, or force him to become patient and learn to swing at strikes. Get rid of Giambi, Put Nady in RF, Damon in LF, and Gardner in CF until Jackson is ready, and Matsui will DH, the lineup would look like this:
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Texeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Nady RF
Posada C
Matsui DH
Cano/FA Signing or Trade Acquisition
Gardner CF
David Brown,
That may be the best way to eventually build the strongest team, but I think it would be more like 2012 before all those young players work there way into viable everyday players. In the meantime, there would be a few losing seasons to start off the new park, and patience has never been New York’s strong suit. Plus, remember last year when it looked like Cleve. really had a young team on the cusp of being really good for a long time. Now, a lot of those players are gone and their future isn’t so bright either. The youth movement almost never goes the way it is envisioned.
“The Yankees also will bid a not-so-fond farewell to Carl Pavano, Pudge Rodriguez, Sidney Ponson and some of the other dreck.”
Nice word Pete. So should we refer to some of the media as “dreck” when it is obvious they are spinning things instead of reporting them? How about players who leave everything they have on the field and just aren’t performing well. Are they dreck too? I have been disappointed in this Yankee season but I really object to your use of the word to describe Yankee players. They are not “trash”. Now I would say an appropriate use of that word could be for teams and coaches who surreptitiously and illegally tape other teams and then use those tapes to their advantage and to the disadvantage of other teams. Now that is dreck.
“Kind of funny that Joe Torre and the Dodgers are rolling into the postseason by beating up on Ross Ohlendorf and Jeff Karstens.”
Kind of funny that Joe Torre and the Dodgers are rolling into the postseason with a record that is worse than the Yankees record! But that’s the advantage of managing a team in the NL West. Good move by Torre…
seems there are two Toms posting here…..
I think there needs to be a mix of bringing players up and going after free agents that can help. The Yankees need to sign Sabathia, no question. Having him and Wang at the top of the rotation will give us a great chance to win 2/5 games and give the bullpen rest because they go 7+ innings every start. Joba needs to be #3 in the rotation. He’d give the Yankees the best top 3 starters in the league and with guys like Marte and Bruney, as well as Melancon and Sanchez coming up, he is needed more in the rotation.
Mussina needs to be resigned. He probably won’t pitch as effectively as he did this year, but he can always be counted on for 30 starts. Phil Hughes gets the last spot in the rotation. Trade Damon for prospects (or if possible, package him with Kennedy for Matt Kemp).
I’ve gone back and forth on this, but I think they should go after Teixeira as well. Great defense, high OPS, switch hitter. Posada and Matsui can split time at DH, but putting either of them at 1B gives us a weak fielder and a weak hitter at that position. Let Abreu, Giambi, Pettite, Pavano, and Rodriguez. Offer arbitration to any type A or B free agents.
Lineup:
CF Gardner
SS Jeter
3B Rodriguez
1B Teixeira
LF Matsui
RF Nady
C Posada
2B Cano
Matsui and Posada split time at DH with Melky and Molina replacing them in the field and hitting 9.
Bench:
C Molina
OF Cabrera
IF Betemit
IF Duncan (or a FA)
Rotation:
Sabathia
Wang
Joba
Mussina
Hughes
Bullpen:
Rivera
Marte
Bruney
Melancon
Sanchez
Aceves
What do you think?
Mariano can go flip himself. He pitches 3 outs per week when the yankees are already winning and the game is already decided. As a spectator, I’m mad too! The yankees aren’t winning!! Mo makes millions off our barely winning fetish that makes us sit in our seats until the end of the game consuming $10 lemonades. (Yet when AROD hits a few homers and lets us go home happy with money in our pockets to enjoy the rest of our evening he’s somehow a waste of money…)
AROD fan -
You realize Mo has the lowest post-season ERA of any pitcher in the history of the game, right? He’s the GOAT closer.
And lay off those lemonades!!!!
# 27
If Gardner can figure out the hitting, he’d make a great leadoff hitter/CF.
I wouldn’t turn my nose on Tex, but he wants years. A lot of them.
I don’t think Betemit will be back, though he’s done well in his role lately. Ransom’s a candidate for UIF, unless he stops hitting.
You need one more guy in the pen, you left out the Coke. I don’t know if Sanchez is ready, but we need to fill replace Veras and Ramirez internally.
SJ44,
The “toughness” issue is completely subjective and meaningless. I remember an editorial in my college paper back in 1999 accusing the Yankees of being a soft team. I was compelled to write back something like “Does Roger Clemens seem like a ‘soft’ player to you?”
Who are the whiners on this team? We’ve heard about Cano and Melky’s immaturity a million times, but who else is a problem? The only players I can even guess at are Abreu and Kennedy, and that’s only based on Abreu’s fear of the wall, Kennedy’s strange comments to the media, and the fact that they are not players named Matsui, Damon, ARod, Jeter, Posada, Molina, Pudge, Nady, Mussina, Pettitte, Rasner, Wang, Rivera, or any other reliever. These guys all play hard. Some of them haven’t been very good baseball players this season, but they aren’t quitters or whiners to my knowledge.
I disagree about the offense, except in a hindsight perspective. This team looked to have an offense every bit as good as a Dynasty team. Then we got unimaginably horrendous seasons from Cano and Melky and major injuries to Matsui and Posada. If a Dynasty team suffered an equal loss in production, there would have been no Dynasty.
Same with the bench. On day 1, the bench looked awesome. Then Duncan, Ensberg, and Betemit all came up as total disappointments, and Molina went from backup to starting catcher.
It’s been said before. This was a season where too many things went wrong to make the playoffs. It happens, but not because the team lacked enough tough SOBs.
if smoltz is health a big if would u like him in a set-up role for mo ?
gardner is decent and an excellent bench player but like melky he should not be the starting centerfielder for the NY yankees – we need a hitter in that position already. I dont wanna go from one bandaid to the next.
“If you’d take a step back and look at the big picture. Girardi did better in his first year with the Yankees than the players did. Don’t forget that you lost two huge pieces.
Manager says no ice cream in the clubhouse? Don’t cry about it. Go home and and get one out of your Sub-Zero.
The fact is that some of the vets would have a problem with anyone not named Joe Torre walking through the door. Because there’d be change.
And I don’t even know why we’re talking about this. Joe Torre benched guys al the time. Against tough lefties. To get rest. He dropped Alex into the 8-hole. In a playoff game.”
Key words being “Tough Lefties”. Every manager does that. The problem is, to Girardi, every lefty is tough.
You’re right Torre moved Arod because he couldn’t hit w/RISP.. Unlike Girardi who left Arod and a .200 hitter #5 most of the season.
Girardi has looked like he’s been in over his head too many times this season.
PA & SJ44,
Fabulous posts. If anyone needed an example of why this blog is THE place for Yankee baseball on the web, today’s 1:23PM post is it.
The one name I havent heard mentioned much as a 3rd base coach in ’09 is Willie Randolph. At times, Willie used to wave them home like there’s no tomorrow. But I think the man represents what the Yankkes and winning are all about. If Larry Bowa is unavailable, I’d love to see Willie back.
i agree wit u drive4-5 if bowa is unvailable i would love to see wille back
Ladies & Gentlemen your 2009 New York Yankees:
CF Gardner
SS Jeter
3B Arod
DH Matsui
RF Nady
C Posada
2B Cano
LF Kemp
1B Miranda
Starters: Sabathia,Burnett,Wang,Joba,Hughes
Pen: Rivera, Marte, Coke, Melancon, Robertson, Aceves, Sanchez or Bruney
Bench: Molina, Kotsay, Ransom, Betemit
kemp is a free agent? It is def a mistake to stick with gardner as our starting centerfielder – he is the perfect pinchrunner off the bench or he shuld go back to the minors and play a little more. With a full season, he will put up worse numbers than melky did this yr – he can run but he cant hit all that well.
Damn Trevor:
They better pitch GREAT with that lineup.
How do you propose they get Kemp by the way?
The idea that the Yankees should just rebuild with kids is just absurd. They must remain committed to pursuing FA to fill needs AND reward their fans. You don’t open the newest and most expensive facility in the history of sports and put a Tripl-A team out there.
The key as others have mentioned is making certain you only pursue the best and youngest FAs that fill specific needs. That’s why I want Tex and CC and would prefer Oliver Perez over AJ Burnett. If the Yanks can get Tex, they can live with Melky/Gardner/Damon handling CF until Austin Jackson is ready. you can trade offense for defense in CF if you get Matsui healthy and add a bat like Tex. You could also cross your fingers and try to go with Damon and use a young guy for late innings/one game a week.
I’m fine with Girardi, but anyone who doesn’t see how stupid it is to ban snacks in the clubhouse is either under age 18 or over age 60… a manager tells a 35 year old millionaire he can’t have a candy bar? Idiotic policy which only insults adult men who have earned the right to make their own decisions.
As for figuring out how much $$$ is ocming off the payroll it depends on where you draw theline I suppose. Giambi, but the way is getting $ 23.5 this year AND the $ 5 buyout is technically a 2008 obligation.. ditto Pavano.
the constant whining about dumping Cano, who according to most of you is worthless and a dog, but, you wanted him traded for a top of the line pitcher or center fielder. If he’s of little ue to the Yankees, why would he have any value to another team? Don’t give me the BS line about because another team might think they can fix him, either. If he’s that much of an issue that NYY don’t want him, why would they?
As for bringing in a 31 year old second baseman like Hudson, how’s offense is about half of Cano’s, given the fact that he has little power, doesn’t steal bases and who’s defense isn’t anu better than Cano’s. Any improvement since he went to Arizona is because it’s the NL. Look at his numbers in Toronto, based largely on playing on turf. One other thing….Hudson is asking for a multi-year deal for 13-15 mil a year. That’s why Arizona hasn’t signed him. The BS that was written the other day about how crushed he was about not coming to NY is a joke….a figment of some so-called writer’s imagination.
Cashman needs to surround himself with better talent evaluators and setting the sights high should begin with Buck Showalter, a younger version of “Stick” Michael.
Along the same idea, Girardi needs to listen to the veteran advice that Mariano, Jorge, and Derek can provide with A-Rod in a lesser nature.
Girardi will be in his 2nd year and will be expected to set the tone in spring training of what will not be tolerated.
“How do you propose they get Kemp by the way?”
I don’t know but it can happen. It’s going to be an over crowded pen trade some pen arms and a couple of prospects, I suppose.
Jeremy,
Ever since the ’04 ALCS I’ve thought this team wasnt mentally tough enough to win. I dont know who to attribute it to, but for the last 5 years the Yankees have under achieved. There’s no excuse for not having won a playoff series since beating Minnesota in the ’04 ALDS.
A Rod was fabulous in the ’04 playoffs right up until Game 4 of the ALCS against Boston. Since then, not so much. But ARod isn’t solely to blame by any means.
I think the Yankees ’09 performance with runners in scoring position is a perfect example of a team that doesn’t do what it take to win. To change that mentality is going to be tough.
On the one hand, I very much want Cano to stay a Yankee and learn to do what it takes to win. On the other hand, if his comment that “I’m not going to change the way I play” means that he’s unwilling to learn situational hitting, then he is sadly part of the problem.
By the way, I don’t think it’s fair to compare signing Teixeira with signing Giambi. Here’s the differences:
1, Teixeira would be 29 on opening day while Giambi was 31 when he started for the Yankees in 2002. 2 years not sound like a big difference, but that is 2 years in your prime.
2, Teixeira is considered to be one of the best defensive first basemen in the league, Giambi is one of the worst. Even when Tex isn’t helping with his bat, he is still providing gold glove defense.
3, There is no reason to believe Tex has any steroid issues.
4, Tex is a switch hitter and hits to all fields so his numbers won’t drop because of a defensive shift or facing a lefty.
86w183-
WORD
“do it through the draft”
Like Cole?
The reason why we haven’t done it isn’t because free agents don’t work, its because the free agents that Cashman picks don’t work.
Just like this off season, if the Yankees avoid the big ticket Sabathia and go for Burnett or Sheets we’re making the same mistakes we’ve made all along.
The real coaching star of this organization is pitching coach Scott Aldred at Trenton.
GB7,
As you know, I have never advocated for trading Cano. I still think we can write this season off as a bad year. He is only 25 years old, after all.
I thought he took the benching well. He admitted he was wrong and the manager was right. However, I do hope his comments about not changing the way he plays are not an indication that he isnt coachable. He needs to learn how to be more selective and adjust to different situations. The minute he indicates an unwillingness to listen, I’ll gladly hold the door for him on his way out.
I stand by what I say towards Abru, Petitte etc. I would be willing to wait until 2012 if necessary (I am a die hard Islander fan, so I understand futility all too well). It is better building something that will give us another dynasty, than being an average team for years to come.
The first person I want off of this team is IPK, I can’t stand his sorry you know what attitude (I dislike him worse than Alex Rodriguez (He makes A-Fraud look like Jeter (At least A-Fraud puts up Rotteserie League Numbers, he puts up ZERO)) and I hope Melky can be send packing with him (They belong in places like San Francisco where NO ONE CARES about BASEBALL).. I do NOT want Cashman back either (I think he has been there too long, and the ENTIRE ORGANIZATION NEEDS A GOOD SWIFT KICK). If they do those things (Getting rid of bad attitudes and contracts), they will be back on top very soon.
I woke up today wanting Cano off the team.
Se ya Robbie.
you LAZY Head case.
Damon Oppenheimer for GM!
“Who are the whiners on this team? We’ve heard about Cano and Melky’s immaturity a million times, but who else is a problem? The only players I can even guess at are Abreu and Kennedy, and that’s only based on Abreu’s fear of the wall,…”
___________________________________________________________
HUH?
Mo should be mad his best season ever was wasted, imagine what he could have done in the post-season. This offseason we need to either sign 2 FA pitchers and bring back Mussina or bring back Pettitte and Moose and sign one FA, heres why: You need 3 rotation spots filled because its Wang coming off an injury and a combination of Joba/Hughes to fill out the rotation and neither Joba or Hughes should be treated like money in the bank for 150-200 innings.
Drive 4-5
September 17th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
GB7,
As you know, I have never advocated for trading Cano. I still think we can write this season off as a bad year. He is only 25 years old, after all.
I thought he took the benching well. He admitted he was wrong and the manager was right. However, I do hope his comments about not changing the way he plays are not an indication that he isnt coachable. He needs to learn how to be more selective and adjust to different situations. The minute he indicates an unwillingness to listen, I’ll gladly hold the door for him on his way out.
_________________________________________________
I don’t think Cano meant that he had no intention to change how he plays, only the style. Jones asks questions to him and she did it with Cabrera that they don’t quite understand, so they answer it the way that makes sense to them. It’s not perfect English and what they say isn’t what they meant. It’s one of the few cases where what you hear them say is taken out of context. Jones knows that and why she does it. For years, she tried that with Rivera and Matsui. Rivera’s too smart for that and he’s smarter than she is. Matsui uses an interpreter for that reason. She tried that with him to get controversial statements. As Lieter and Fleherty said last night….Pedroia’s style is jumpy, almost hyper-active…Cano’s is more of a gliding syle, like Manny Trillo and Roberto Alomar. That was the beginning of the phrase “smooth” when Cano was described last week. Of course, the press and half of this board took it and ran with it.
***Leiter and Flaherty***
The people who complain about Torre getting respect when he is managing a team with a worse record than the Yanks ought to check the record occasionally.
Today the Dodgers have one one less win than the Yankees, and they are moving up, not down, in the standings.
Yankee apologists will immediately shift their ground to say that even if the Dodgers end up with a better record than the Yanks (as they almost certainly will) that’s because they play in a worse division, league, etc. If they make a decent showing in the playoffs, there’ll be some other excuse.
Why? Why do you resent it if Torre does well elsewhere? You don’t want him back, do you? So what’s the beef?
The man has moved on and never says anything bad about New York or the Yankees. Where does all this resentment come from?
I’d rather see Cano reach his potential in pinstripes for a number of reasons, not the least of which is 2B with his offensive potential are pretty special. the only way I trade him is if he is the key for a big time hitter (Holliday) or OF prospect (Kemp, Ethier).
Why is everyone so gung ho for another year of Mussina. He’s obviously fading down the stretch and the fade will start sooner next year. Unless Pettite is completely healthy I have to say goodbye to a pair of fine gentlemen at this stage and move on.
David Brown— You’re willing to wait until 2012 for a playoff return? There may not be ten Yankees fans on the planet who would agree with that.
Do you think Mariano might be the unnamed Yankee veteran who said last week that some Yankees are playing like they’ve thrown in the towel? I was thinking it was Jorge, but now it sounds like it was him.
Goodbye to Pettitte- Tell him to go home, stay in shape and off the juice and maybe you’ll get a call-up mid-season, ala Clemens.
SJ44-
Rivera-would like to know who he’s disgusted with.
Offer arbitration only to Abreu, on the shelf about Mussina, as he has done well but isn’t a #1 or #2, more like a #4,#5.
Sign 2 FA starting pitchers: However many teams looking for starters, and since the 2009 FA class weak in position players, young starters at a premium.
Sabathia-might stay in NL
Burnett-might resign extension with Toronto-wife loves it there.
Lackey and Penny-options probably picked up.
Dempster- Cubs interested in resigning.
Perez-probably back to Mets.
Garland-probably will be overpaid 4-5 year contract.
Sheets- Why wouldn’t Brewer’s resign him, if they make the playoffs.
Are there any other worthwhile FA starters 33yo or younger worth looking into?
If we can get 2 quality FA starting pitchers, then we can listen to offers for our minor league pitching in hopes of getting young athletic position players.
GB7-
Agree with you on Cano. However I would listen to offers, and if a deal is right for the team, I would sign a 1 year, if possible stopgap, as in 2010, Roberts, Polanco, and DeRosa are FA’s, and this year Orlando Hudson, coming back from a fx. left hand is not worth a 4-5 year contract.
* A-Rod has been a ghost for about a week. The rest of the Yankees dutifully made themselves available to praise Jeter last night and he vanished. He’s 3 for 15 on the homestand.
Maybe hes tired of reporters writing sh*t about him, the media (and you to Pete) helps alot in the hatred towards the guy. He goes on a hot streak, he gets bashed for only doing when it dosent matter, he goes on a cold streak he gets bashed for that too.
pete:
you can’t build a team with the draft and farm system alone .the yankees won in the 90′s with mostly free agents and a few minor league guys like mo,posada,jeter,pettitte.
i agree that you can’t have all free agents but i believe the yankees biggest mistake was not going after any good young pitching for several years now.
the red sox won in 2004 with almost 100 percent free agents,they just made the right trades.
another big mistake the yankees could make is holding onto prospects for too long.
i suppose it can be done but there has to be the right balance.
i think they should seriously consider trading a lot of prospects as long as the players they bring in are not too old.
they need a lot of positions filled and i just don’t see the farm system or free agents filling all the needs anytime soon.
if they can land sabathia and maybe package cano or hughes for as good young volquez or peavey type pitcher i think they should.
if their prospects don’t bring in players that they are happy with,good young one or two year established guys then i agree,keep the kids.
if a cano,kennedy,melancon can get you volquez do you do it???,or maybe cano,ajax??
i would have to make that trade because pitching wins and volquez is young.can you imagine a rotation of sabathia,wang,volquez,joba and maybe mussina??
do you trade a hughes,montero for dickerson,bruce,kemp,mclouth??,i would as long as cano lands me a pitcher in return to replace hughes,otherwise maybe not.
the yankees need all three new outfielders,first baseman,catcher and pitching and i don’t see free agency or the draft alone doing it.
i would trade cano and then some for a pitcher,trade hughes and then some for a center fielder,trade some prospects for a first baseman and then try to sign sabathia and maybe another solid pitcher,then next year they could work on the corner outfield spots.
SJ44
In your opinion, any chance the Yankees decide to stand pat, resign some of this year’s underachievers (i.e. Giambi), and continue to hope they already have the necessary pitching strength (Wang, Joba, Hughes, Aceves, Coke, etc.)?