Game 153: White Sox at Yankees
-
- September
- 18
Yankees (81-71)
Gardner CF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Giambi DH
Nady LF
Cano 2B
Miranda 1B
Molina C
Mussina RHP
Mike Mussina (17-9, 3.63) vs. the Chicago hitters.
Javier Vazquez (12-13, 4.13) vs. the New York hitters.
Notes: Thanks to Josh Thomson for calling in the lineup. … I am doing some writing from the home office today but Josh will relay any information for updates. … The Yankees have won four of their last five games.
JUAN FOR THE MONEY: This will be the major league debut of Juan Miranda. The 25-year-old Cuban has been with the organization since Dec. 22, 2006 when he signed as a free agent. He spent this season with Triple-A Scranton.
SECOND CITY: The White Sox are 2-7 in their last nine games at Yankee Stadium.
GIRARDI LIKES COKE: He’ll undoubtedly rest today. But the legend of Phil Coke is growing. The rookie lefty has thrown 10 scoreless innings in his seven appearances, allowing three hits with one walk and six strikeouts.
GAMES PLAYED AT YANKEE STADIUM
Mantle 1,213
Gehrig 1,080
Berra 1,068
Williams 1,039
Jeter 1,000
TRYING FOR 20: The Moose needs a win tonight to have any hope at 20 wins for the season. He is scheduled to pitch again on Tuesday in Toronto and on Sept. 28 in Boston.
Back later with some updates.
BIG DADDY DAMON: Congratulations to Johnny Damon. Michelle Damon gave birth to the couple’s second child today, a girl named Danica. She checked in at 6 pounds, 8 ounces and everybody is doing well according to Joe Girardi.
Imagine having Johnny as your dad? What could be better than that? No word on when Johnny will rejoin the team.
UPDATE, 5:08 p.m.: Ah, the insular little world of baseball. The Dodgers won again today, beating the Pirates 4-3 in 12 innings. Scott Proctor, who you may remember from his 1,700 appearances with the Yankees, got the win. The Dodgers won the game on a single by James Loney off former Yankee T.J. Beam.
That’s 15 wins in 18 games for the Dodgers and Joe Torre. These are dark days for the Torre haters out there. The Yankees are going home and he’s going to the playoffs again. The best part is that they’ll tell you he would not have made a difference on this team.
Of course not. It’s not the like the Yankees had flawed, injured teams in 2005, 2006 and 2007 but stayed tough all summer and made their way into the postseason. Oh, wait a second. They did.
The other excuse, of course, will be that the NL West stinks. Which is does. Tell it to the 2006 Cardinals.
(Let the angry, irrational, “You Love Torre!” comments begin. Nobody knows when they’re being teased.)
UPDATE, 5:45 p.m.: Girardi said that Andy Pettitte’s start on Sunday would not be his last. They plan to use him in Boston.
UPDATE, 7:13 p.m.: Orlando Cabrera now has five doubles in this series.
UPDATE, 8:57 p.m.: Bobby Abreu must really want to come back next season. That’s three hits and five RBI for him. He has given them a lot to think about.
If this score holds, the Moose will have 18 wins for the first time since 2002 and still have a chance for 20. What a season for him.
UPDATE, 10:15 p.m.: Good for Cervelli and Sanchez, getting to play on the big field. Sanchez, who grew up in the Bronx, must be thrilled.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, September 18th, 2008 at 4:23 pm by Peter Abraham.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Share and Enjoy: 
| 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
This is a litttle nostalgia time. I saw Javy Vasquez pitch on Opening Day at the Stadium, and the team he faced (and won against) was the Chicago White Sox. I remember watching Ozzie Guillen goof around at the batting cages.
Nice memories.
18 wins cmon mOOSE!
I’m going to the game, leaving in 30 min.
I like the lineup, will be nice to see what Miranda can do and I haven’t seen Gardner in person yet. Hopefully Damon will get a pinch hitting opportunity late in the game, he always seems to get a hit when I’m there.
why did we trade vasquez for randy johnson again?
lets go yanks lets win all these games at home i kant believe its come down to 4 more games at home
Actually Vasquez was tanking a bit but giving the old line that he thought he pitching was fine. I don’t that cuts it with the Yanks.
Randy Johnson was George’s prize. The fact that Arizona wouldn’t part with him until it was pretty late in the game didn’t dissuade George from getting him anyway. Too much too little too late on that one I believe.
can we finish 90-72?
“why did we trade vasquez for randy johnson again?”
This.
Miranda at 1B(fist-pump). Now if we see Humberto its a good night.
Vasquez is the perfect middle of the rotation starter… eats innings, competes etc. We should have hung onto him, but hopefully Hughes can be the middle-rotation innings eater like Vasquez.
I have to attend a work event from 7 – 10.
I will have the tape going though.
Juan Miranda MLB debut?
im looking forward to seeing this lineup…btw i did read this question asked in an espn chat to John Manuel about Austin Jackon vs Andrew McCutchen
“Shorter answer now is, McCutchen has better tools, esp. the run tool. Jackson is more skilled, just a better ballplayer. Honestly, Jackson seems to get pigeonholed because he’s a black former basketball player, but he’s really a guy with emerging skills, good athleticism but not a burner, not an explosive guy but a good athlete — avg. run, avg. defense, always seems to make big plays, situational hitter. Just the more skilled guy. Scouts prefer McCutchen; managers prefer Jackson.”
FYI no Damon as he is wife is giving birth according to Ed price..congrats Johnny
Nice to see G.I. Joe giving Miranda some ABs
I want to see Humberto if its a blowout.
Good to see Juan “Im such a” Miranda in the line up. Let’s hope he goes deep in his first at bat
That is a fair description of Jackson… not an explosive player but a winning player who can do a little bit of everything.
repost
Just catching up, you guys have a lot of good stuff going.
-love the X jokes by Rebecca & Brandon
-Wang’s an ace, but why can’t we have more than one?
-for Doreen & trisha. We’re all getting a little emotional as the end approaches, and all the players have had nothing but nice things to say about the Cathedral. Except one person. Junior. The Times has an article about how he’s not sad to see it go, has not connection to the place. By all accounts he’s a private guy, great with his family and teammates, but he sounds like one cold SOB. Part of the stadium thing links back to getting yelled at by Billy Martin for playing too loudly in the tunnel.
– We may’ve been a wee disappointed (some very) with Phil’s performance last night. I think it would’ve “looked†better if he went 5 innings. But the fact is that Phil gave up only 1 run on 4 hits. One could’ve been caught by Jeter. And that first double by OC should’ve been a single. Anyway. It was pretty impressive how Hughes battled. Lots of fouled off pitches, but to me that meant they had a tough time putting the ball into play.
-SJ, about Phil’s straight fastball. Was it always that straight? I recall hitters saying that his fastball was deceptive. Like it was hard to hit.
Miranda should have been up months ago so we could see if he can be our 1B solution next year. we can’t draw any conclusions from what he does in these few token ABs he will get the rest of the year.
“Honestly, Jackson seems to get pigeonholed because he’s a black former basketball player.”
Not really sure what this means. Haven’t most pro athletes played other sports in school? And I’m *definitely” not sure what Manuel is saying about his race!
Congrats to Johnny and his wife.
Hopefully Moose can get win #18 tonight
Congrats Johnny!
can we see humberto sanchez tonight please joe?
From the last thread—it’s weird to read about SJ winding up on Arthur Ave, that’s two blocks from where I live! I go there to do my grocery shopping
Mel,
I answered your question re: Phil in the other thread.
Trisha,
Dominick’s opens at 1 on Sunday. Their address is 2335 Arthur Ave.
Stephen,
It sounds to me like he is saying that Jackson gets a bad rap because he’s thought of as an “athlete” rather than a baseball player. In the past he was described as a guy who has great athletic skills but not great baseball skills. Over the past two season that has changed a great deal.
Hughes’ stuff looks almost identical to Aceves.
Aceves throws a couple ticks harder than his minor league scouting report said he did, so does Coke for that matter.
Thanks SJ. It makes sense to me to do Dominick’s first and then head to the Stadium. We definitely won’t be stopping to hang out after the game!
Miranda is an awful defensive first baseman. That’s why he wasn’t called up earlier.
He makes Jason Giambi look like a Gold Glove first baseman.
He can mash righties, no glove, and has a hard time with lefties.
Ideally, he’s an excellent platoon-type guy as a DH. Not the answer at first base.
Rebecca,
I’m on Arthur Ave. about 20 times a year, usually after games.
Sometimes, if I am in town and someone wants to go to Dominick’s or Mario’s, I take them there. Usually though, its after day Yankee games in the summer.
andy is a liability. we need to start ian kennedy on sunday to have any chance of winning.
trish also I think I am going to do the same thing on Sunday you can park your car at the stadium and take the subway D line up to 183 and walk a few blocks to arthur avenue then take the subway back to the stadium.
I didn’t know Johnny’s wife was expecting. Congrats to him and his wife. Is this baby # 4 or 5 for Johnny? He sure is a busy man.
Miranda is not the answer for 1B, we need to go out and find a real one. A guy who is great on both sides of the ball. Whether that’s Teixeria or a trade. Miranda is another Betemit. Jackson is the only legit position player in the system before the Charleston kids.
SJ: Well, maybe sometime I’ll bump into you and we can talk loads of baseball, or some such.
I’m here at least through most of the 2009 season…
SJ,
I agree completely with what you said about the 2009 outfield in the last blog post. Nady in right, Damon in left, Jackson or a stopgap in center, and Matsui as the fulltime DH.
I like the idea of Laroche, he could be available.
Teixeira would be a luxury but I’m not sure the Yankees can get him and I certainly don’t want him signed to a 7+ year deal.
Getting Sabathia should be priority #1.
how is the neighborhood around there. I was going to go downtown after the game Saturday, but maybe I’ll head that way instead? I’d be driving.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=bostock
for those of you not old enough to remember, the above is a link to a very good story about lyman bostock. i wasn’t a twins fan in those days, but i didn’t have to read the story to remember him. i always loved watching great hitters and he was one.
jennifer: About Arthur Ave? Not a whole lot of parking. Good Italian food though.
Give Johnny the rest pf the season off.. let him be with his wife. No point bringing him back to play out meaningless games. Gardner can play instead.
Jennifer neighborhood is more than fine
Trisha and Gayle – that’s great that you got tickets to the final game. I’m sure that the place will be electric.
I don’t think the impact of them actually closing the stadium will hit me until all of the closing ceremonies on Sunday.
SJ,
Thanks for that. All in all, a better outing than not. He didn’t get hit hard and kept it close. That’s the main thing. Still not liking the quick hook, but I’m sure there’s a reason.
wolfman,
I know you’re kidding. You’re kidding, right? Kennedy’s not prepared to pitch in the majors. Phil deserved it because he battled back from an injury. Kennedy still needs to figure it out. It’ll do much more damage than good to bring up Kennedy. And I’ll be disappointed if they do because it’s about developing pitchers.
Rebecca,
I’ll be back there next year. That would be fun.
Patrick,
What’s interesting about re-tooling the team is, if they are lucky enough to get CC and/or AJ, it makes their rebuilding come together much quicker.
They REALLY need dependable starting pitching.
As bad as the offense was this year, and it was VERY bad in long stretches, the guys they rolled out every five days (for the most part) made winning very difficult.
That’s why I think they really have to go all in for both CC and AJ.
If they pull off that “double”, look at what they would have:
CC, Wang, Burnett, Joba and (most likely) Moose or Andy (whomever takes the one offer that will be on the table) in the rotation. Coke, Marte, Melancon, Veras, Bruney, Mo and a long guy in the ‘pen.
You can win with that pitching staff.
You would have Aceves, Hughes, Wright, Kennedy in the AAA rotation. A guy like Humberto Sanchez would be in the AAA bullpen, getting ready to contribute during the season. We may even see an Andrew Brackman sighting at some point.
That’s when you would begin to see real pitching depth in the organization. That’s how important it is to sign two (or get one in a trade for that matter) of the top end starting pitchers that will be on the market.
If you shore up the D, you really have something.
The days of trying to patch the rotation together with “might be’s” and “could be’s” has to end.
Both Boston and Tampa will have formidable starting staffs next year. The Yankees are going to have to open up the checkbook if they want to match them on the mound.
Yeah Arthur Ave. Not good parking? Thats stinks
I don’t know what to do than. The driving up there is okay though? Which is the best way to go? I have tom tom, but I can’t always rely on him.
Which is the best place to go eat?
Danica Damon?
Hey non-YES-area fans, WGN is supposed to be showing the game if you want to (finally) see Moose pitch.
Jennifer there is a municiple lot that I have been able to find spaces in right on arthur avenue so not sure about other parking options. I guess it dependson what time you go.
Could not tell you how to get there i just punch in the address on my gps when I am at the stadium and I get there lol
Don’t get too high on Coke. It is September. Ian Kennedy looked great last year around this time too.
Juan Talamela at 1B YES ! ...I mean Miranda at first base tonight, finally the prospects get a chance !
john manuel makes ajax sound like a slightly above average mlb as his ceiling which is nice…i dont know much but im sure he can still raise his ceiling to be even more?
wolf man,
Why? So when Kennedy gives up 7 runs in 1.1 innings he can say:
“I’m not too upset, I thought I pitched well”. “It’s just the final game in Yankee Stadium, its not that big of a deal. It was renovated anyway.”
“If I pitch like I did tonight, I will win a lot of ballgames”.
Get Manny bat him behind arod
Jennifer- I usually can find a spot on the street around Arthur Avenue. You may have to drive around a couple of times but you should be ok. And as Gaye said there is a municipal lot.
jennifer: The Stadium’s not very close to Arthur Ave, about 10 minutes ride on the subway and then a 20 minute walk from the Fordham Road subway station to get from the Stadium to Arthur Ave.
You could park near the stadium and take the subway up from the stadium, but I wouldn’t recommend doing it on yur own, especially after dark.
DeMonica Damon would’ve been nice, too. Congrats to the Damon family.
Good luck to the Yankees today.
“We may even see an Andrew Brackman sighting at some point.”
I can’t wait to see what he brings to the table – I saw a lot more of him in a Wolfpack basketball jersey than a baseball uniform, but if a guy that big can get everything together mechanically it is going to be a treat!
Sounds like a plan. Now I just have to convince my friend to go along.
“Don’t get too high on Coke.”
This message was brought to you by the DEA
nice to see Miranda debuting today. if only he debuted last night when i was there. =(
Pete, I’m quite happy with my own father…but I have no doubt Johnny D would be an awesome dad.
Congratulations again to him.
funny thing about Nady. I finally got to see Nady live for the very first time yesterday, and saw/hear some awesome things about Nady. His entrance music was, X gonna give it to ya by DMX..and his 10 second “clutch hit” video was an X-Men theme.
Ralph – A-Jax still has a lot to prove. He doesn’t have great speed… only stole 19 bases this year. Doesn’t have a great arm in the outfield, only hit 9 HRs, struck out 113 times as well.
He should not be rushed and should be given time to develop in Scranton where the league won’t suppress his power as much as Trenton did. Needs to steal more, hit for a higher average, and cut down on the Ks.
Most scouts compare him to Mike Cameron… who was a slightly above average ML player himself, nothing wrong with that.
The Cubs scored 4 times off Torres in the bottom of the 9th, all with 2 outs.
If we had Joe Torre, I would say our chances would have been better to make the playoffs. But maybe thats cuz I dont like Girardi even from his playing days
Congratulations to the Damon family. Danica – after the racing lady maybe??? Actually, it’s a nice name (not that it’s any of my business, of course
).
Let’s go Moose! I have “Back to School Night,” so I’ll miss the first few innings.
I really wish we were going to a game this weekend. I hope all of you who are going have the best time, take lots of pictures and soak it all in.
The Torre loves fest is reaching nauseating levels. I will be rooting hard for the Mets to knock them out.
Lesser of the two evils-
Mets fan > Torre fans/NY meda.
“The Moose needs a win tonight to have any hope at 20 wins for the season.”
maybe moose should just keep 19 as his high water mark and be famous for being the best pitcher to never win 20 and win three hundred.
of course moose will probably win 299.
which would lead to the debate of whether he should get in the hall of fame with “only” 299 wins and “only” 19 wins as his highest yearly total.
The Cubs scored 4 times off Torres in the bottom of the 9th, all with 2 outs.
Yikes!
randy l –
Sad, but too true, about Moose’s numbers.
I have to tell you I am getting a little sick of all the Joe Torre talk. Whether he would or would not have made a difference this year WHO CARES. he is not here and he in Los Angeles. Let him do well out there.
Everyone and I mean everyone needs to move on and let sleeping dogs lie so to speak.
Peter,
If you hadn’t spent all season displaying a completely irrational antipathy towards Girardi, your opinion on the manager’s impact on the Yankees season might have some credibility. As it is, I can’t believe anyone without an agenda believes that Girardi was the main culprit for this season.
Torre would have abused the same guys in the bullpen and the Yankees would have been worse off than they are now.
Please.
Unless one doesn’t understand baseball, the reason the Yankees never missed the playoffs during the Torre years is because of the offense they got from the catcher and/or CF positions. The injury to Posada was the biggest reason the Yanks aren’t making the playoffs this year, not to mention Cano’s horrendous season. And, of course, in those years we didn’t have to deal with a 95 win Rays team.
i would agree with the “don’t get too high on coke” sentiment.
“The Admiral” David Robertson looked unstoppable at the beginning too
let’s not forget.
“That’s 15 wins in 18 games for the Dodgers and Joe Torre. These are dark days for the Torre haters out there. The Yankees are going home and he’s going to the playoffs again. The best part is that they’ll tell you he would not have made a difference on this team.
“Of course not. It’s not the like the Yankees had flawed, injured teams in 2005, 2006 and 2007 but stayed tough all summer and made their way into the postseason. Oh, wait a second. They did.”
Holy Christ. Are you for real?
There is no guarantee that the Yanks would have made the playoffs this year with Torre. It really doesn’t matter. Torre is not here and lets just move on from that.
I agree with Stacey’s point. Girardi has managed the bullpen far better than Joe ever did.
Pete’s vendetta has become comical. I wonder if the team ever gets wind of his posts. Well, we know one thing for certain: Pete will be allowed to clean Joe’s L.A. pool during the offseason. Bravo, big boy!
Michael Kay is the only one who gets it… the rest of the media is full of Torre groupies. Torre hated the NY media and said as much, yet the media continues to kiss his fanny.
He cited the best part of California is the laid-back press and their lack of negativity, so clearly Torre doesn’t feel the same way about Pete and co that they do about him.
Here come all the Torre haters giving rationalizations!
LOL @ Pete
Yup, the Yankees who barely made the playoffs last year would have made it with no problem under Torre with Posada, Wang & Matsui missing >50% of the year, Hughes & Joba hurt down the stretch and Rodriguez missing 20 games and having his alltime great performance last year replaced by his subpar clutch performance this year.
So that’s the C that hit 330+ with 90+ rbi, The pitcher that won 19 games, the DH/LF that had 100 rbi, the pitcher that had a 2.7 era in his last 5 starts, the pitcher that was unhittable in the pen, and the 3B who hit .300+ in the clutch with 150 rbi missing from the team that BARELY made the playoffs…
Your transparent Torre love fest is sickening!
Stephen
September 18th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
“Honestly, Jackson seems to get pigeonholed because he’s a black former basketball player.â€
Not really sure what this means. Haven’t most pro athletes played other sports in school? And I’m *definitely†not sure what Manuel is saying about his race!
__
Jackson had signed a Letter Of Intent to play basketball on full scholarship to Georgia Tech and was heavily recruited at Illinois. Everyone expected him to go to Tech. Don’t believe what you read on that report. Jackson isn’t Gardner fast, but, he can run. He may have “only stole 19 bases” this year, but, he was in the 30s the previous two years and he’s successful 76% of the time. He’ll learn to read pitchers as he goes. His defense is also “better than average”. Power-wise, yeah, he’s not a 30 homer hitter, but he produces runs. He’ll be around 18-23 homers a year, hit .285-.310. Johnny Damon numbers.
It’s easy to say we would have made the playoffs with Torre, but the reality is that we don’t know if we would have.
2ndly, and most importantly, Torre is dealing with a bunch of young kids that aren’t getting paid ridiculous amount of money to under preform. They either hit or they sit, ask Andrew Jones.
3rd, its the NL and the West. Probably one of the easiest divisions to win. It has never been strong.
I am not a Torre fanatic nor do I hate the man. You have to respect him for what he did in New York, but we all must face the fact he is not in NY anymore and what he does in the NL has no effect on us unless he makes to to the world series one year and we have to play him
“The Yankees are going home and he’s going to the playoffs again. The best part is that they’ll tell you he would not have made a difference on this team.
Of course not. It’s not the like the Yankees had flawed, injured teams in 2005, 2006 and 2007 but stayed tough all summer and made their way into the postseason. Oh, wait a second. They did.”
I am not a Joe Torre hater. I thought he did a great job as a Yankee manager. But Pete, check the records. The Dodgers have fewer wins than the Yankees this year. This means that, as high as the Yankee loss rate seems, the Dodger loss rate has been slightly higher this year. So when it comes to strictly winning games, they have been worse than the Yankees this year. The Dodgers are just lucky that they play in the worst division in the NL. Whereas the Yankees are playing in the toughest division in baseball. And where do you think the Dodgers would be without Manny Ramirez’s insane hot streak since early August? I am not saying Torre is a bum or anything. But to make it sound like he single-handedly willed the Dodgers to some incredible season is just false. They are a mediocre team that plays in a crappy division and pulled off a crazy trade to help put them in a better state of mediocrity then where they were 2 months ago. The Yankees are a mediocre team that plays in a tough division, and their trades weren’t very successful at changing that mediocrity. That’s basically the difference – the divisional context and the impact of some trades.
And please don’t make it sound like the Yankees team this year has had nearly as many plate appearances and innings pitched from their core players as the past few years. The Yankees have had over 2000 plate appearances this year from guys with an OPS that is more than 15% below league average. 2000!! Do you realize how staggeringly high that number is? That is almost 40% of the team’s total plate appearances. The last Yankee team to even come within 400 plate appearances of that mark is the 1991 team. Also, one-third of the Yankee games have been started by Ponson and Rasner and Igawa and Kennedy and Hughes. It is pretty crazy to think that Torre being on the bench would have turned these guys into even league average pitchers this year, wouldn’t you think? Once again, I’m not saying Torre is a bum, but there isn’t much any manager could do when you have to field a lineup with 3 or sometimes 4 automatic outs everyday (Melky/Cano/Molina/BenchGuy) and send guys like Rasner/Ponson out there one-third of the time. Right?
And the RISP issue is also something that is out of the manager’s control. Melky/Molina/Cano/Bench are hitting roughly .210/.269/.292 this year with RISP in over 530 plate appearances. Do you realize how terrible this is? All other Yankee hitters are collectively at .290/.386/.454. The power is bit low, but the stars are not killing the team. it is the absolute waste of space that 2B/CF/C/Bench has been all year long that has killed this offense? Do you really believe Torre’s presence would have turned all of these guys into even league average hitters? Sorry, but I just don’t see how that is possible.
ZMAN7777
September 18th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
I agree with Stacey’s point. Girardi has managed the bullpen far better than Joe ever did.
Pete’s vendetta has become comical. I wonder if the team ever gets wind of his posts. Well, we know one thing for certain: Pete will be allowed to clean Joe’s L.A. pool during the offseason. Bravo, big boy!
__
Girardi has a considerably better bullpen than Torre had for the last five years, too.
Pete, you can discredit all the Torre’s haters all you want. We all know you are in love with Joe Torre. When are you moving to LA?
Hey Pete,
The Yankees have a better record than the Dodgers
If Torre is managing this club this year they win 95 games.
I didn’t hear anyone trash Torre’s managing of the pen from 96-2001.
When you actually have some talent out there it helps.
To think that the Yankees would have made the playoffs this year if Joe Torre was manager is ridiculous.
For all those years, the yankees didn’t go into the season with 2 rookies automatically in the rotation. They didn’t lose their 19-game winning ace. They did not lose their offensive minded catcher. They did have to rely on CARL PAVANO. The list goes on and on.
The whole “Yanks have a better record” argument is totally flawed.
No one cares what the record is. It’s how far did you go.
You would think you all would know when I’m teasing you by now.
You have to admit, it’s pretty funny that Torre proved Randy Levine and all his haters wrong.
Meanwhile, the records are meaningless. If the Yankees got the wild card at 80-82, you’d all jump for joy.
Mussina doesn’t have what it takes to win 20.
Hasn’t done it his whole career even tough he’s played on some pretty strong Yankee teams these last 7 years. In fact, he never has won a big game for the Yanks either.
I hope Yanks win out their remaining games & make the last 3 at Fenway interesting, but don’t relie on Moose.
Torre made the post season last yr with Chase Wright, Ponson, DeSalvo, Clippard, Rasner etc pitching and starting multiple times. Not to mention Moose being so bad he was dropped. He also didn’t have a pen in front of Mo til Aug 1.
So please. Spare me the BS.
He also got a young pitcher named Wang to lead the staff and become an ace. How did Girardi do with his young starters?
How did Torre do with Melky and Cano?
The Torre haters are not going to win today.
” He’ll be around 18-23 homers a year, hit .285-.310. Johnny Damon numbers.”
we can only pray right : )...damon offense with better defense sounds like a very nice player to me..
Why couldn’t Cashman get Torre better pitching the past 4 years and Joe G this year?
That should really be the questions.
Austin Jackson. Sigh.
Another prospect that the Yanks will overhype. Can’t we let these guys develop before we pencil them in for the lineup in 2009?
A good chunk of the Yankee struggles this year, in addition to the injuries, is due to the failure of player development. Hughes and Kennedy and Cano and Melky and Duncan and Gonzelz and Gardner and Ohlendorf have all been pretty awful this year. When guys get injured or struggle, you have to look to the farm system to replace those guys, and the Yankee farm system just wasn’t good enough to deal with the injuries and/or innefectiveness this year of Melky/Cano/Posada/Wang/Hughes/Kennedy. Seriously, when you don’t have a pitcher in your farm system that is better than Sidney freakin’ Ponson, you have major developmental problems.
The manager isn’t the one to fix that or blame for that. It is on the head of the general manager for having a poorly equipped farm system which couldn’t provide reasonable reinforcements for the injured and ineffective hitters at the major league level.
My main gripe with Girardi this year is that I think he benched his lefty hitters way too much against lefty starters. But even is you assume Torre wouldn’t have done that, I don’t think it would have made such a huge difference to account for the 10 or so extra wins the Yankees need to be in contention. The futility of Melky/Molina/Cano/Bench and Rasner/Ponson/Hughes/Kennedy is just too much to overcome that.
Looking forward to seeing what Miranda can do. He murders AAA righties (.332/.439/.534). I hope I never see him in the lineup against a lefty though(.195/.258/.280). Did Castro ban left-handed pitching in Cuba or something? What a difference in his splits.
Pete, I have a question.
Do you SERIOUSLY believe we are BETTER with Torre, even though Joe G is a BETTER in-game manager (albeit with his own stupid flaws)?
The Yankees STILL have a better record, despite playing in the toughest division and league in baseball, whereas Torre is playing in the worst division in baseball.
As FJM wrote, “it required one hundred-some-odd games and the addition of a Hall of Fame outfielder to compel Torre to bench Messrs. Pierre and Jones are now points in Colletti’s and Torre’s favor?”...which brings me to my next point- it took Manny Ramirez- not Torre magic- to improve the offense to a point where the team began winning with its good pitching. Now, I know it took one hundred-some-odd games for Joe G to bench Melky, but all season his pen management has been good for the most and he seems to be learning from mistakes on the job. He is playing youngsters and given them a chance in the pen (D-Rob, Veras, Edwar, etc. They have been up and down, but they might not even get a chance with Torre).
I do not mean come off sounding like I am fuming as I type, but I was just want an answer. Opinions are fine, I was just want some friendly banter.
The Torre haters are not going to win today.
Put the Codgers in the AL East.
once torre lost the rubber arms of nelson and stanton he had no clue how to manage a bullpen – anyone who says different does not watch yankee games… go ask proctor, villone, quantrill, gordon, etc how their shoulders feel and look at the numbers of their seasons after they got under torre arm killer control
Torre seemed to connect with Cano and Melky. There weren’t “player development” issues with them the past 3 years.
He also seemed to connect with Wang and Joba. Hughes even pitched well.
That’s on the manager.
Ralphie, Jackson has power, but, mostly gap type, doubles and triples, but, he can hit homers. When he gets out of pitcher’s leagues and parks, they’ll go up. He’s still only 21 and hasn’t filled out. He’s the goods.
and i saw a comment about the record thing is stupid since its about how far as you go…why should we credit torre for playing in a bad division. give him in average division and the dodgers most likely do not make the playoffs.
“go ask proctor, villone, quantrill, gordon, etc how their shoulders feel and look”
And how did Mariano perform for Torre for 12 years??
Did he blow out his arm??
I guess he only killed the untalented journeymen pitchers that were average everywhere. Poor Joe. He didn’t know how to manager a pen yet won 90+ games every yr and 4 titles. He also didn’t know how to manage and groom the best reliever in baseball history.
Now we should penalize Torre and the Dodgers for beating teams they should beat and making the playoffs. Makes a lot of sense. Do the 2006 Cards have an asterisk next to their title for winning only 83 games in a bad div?
Matty, I have also taken the approach that all Yankees prospects are overhyped and I never want the front office to have the chance to trade prospects for established major league stars (who aren’t over-the-hill) and take a pass again. That said, with the season essentially over, seeing some new players in the next couple weeks gives me a reason to tune in, I suppose. But yeah, with regard to AJax, I’ll believe it when I see it. Until then, he’s just someone who hasn’t proven that he shouldn’t be bait for a good starting pitcher.
Matty
September 18th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Austin Jackson. Sigh.
Another prospect that the Yanks will overhype. Can’t we let these guys develop before we pencil them in for the lineup in 2009?
Nobody’s putting him in the 2009 lineup. I watched him play in the`sally League for over a year and in Tampa. He’s GOOD. Not great, but, good is good enough.
so because one pitcher (who happens to be the best relief pitcher of all time) faired well then we can ignore the many many examples of human pitchers who did not succeed and sustained injury for 12 years?
Paulio – go root for the dodgers then. thats it.
“The Yankees STILL have a better record, despite playing in the toughest division and league in baseball, whereas Torre is playing in the worst division in baseball.”
And that matters how?? All that matters is you make it into the dance. There are no style points for better record.
Who wouldn’t trade places with the Dodgers or Mets or W Sox right now?
“Torre seemed to connect with Cano and Melky.”
Do Melky and Cano even speak fluent English???
Whoever mentioned to start Kennedy at some time is right. However, ARE YOU STUPID??? Why would you have him start Sunday, the LAST FREAKIN GAME at Yankee Stadium? Of course, have a kid who has potential but hasn’t done well to start the final game at Yankee Stadium. Wasn’t it the goal to have Mo throw the final pitches with you know, the Yankees winning. I am in favor of giving Kennedy another chance just not to replace Pettite on Sunday.
The Dodgers won’t go anywhere. Even if they stumble into the WS, somehow, they’d be swept by any AL team
Please “hew”. Name me a good pitcher he had in the pen after 2002 besides Mo.
You got rocks for brains if you think he blew out any of those scrubs.
No one was complaining about bullpen management when he rolled out Stanton, Nelson, Mendoza, Mo for 6 years.
But lets bash Torre because he had to make lemonade with scrubs like Karsay, Quantrill, Heredia, Sturtze, Hammond, etc
It’s Torre’s fault they stunk and weren’t any good.
And you still didn’t answer my question.
Why isn’t Mo burnt out??? Why didnt Torre trash him??
Someone should compare how the Dodgers and Yankees faired against teams they both played this year. I bet the results will be interesting.
What was Cano’s BA and RBI’s with Torre?
How did Melky play?
Seems to be a bit different with Girardi don’t ya think??
Seems to me that Torre connected pretty well with the young players.
“Someone should compare how the Dodgers and Yankees faired against teams they both played this year. I bet the results will be interesting.”
Who cares? The Dodgers have a shot to win a title. We’re playing golf. They had the much better season even if they get swept out in rd 1.
Dodgers are going to the post season with a WORSE record than the Yankees. SO really, though sleepy Joe T might be better at rallying the troops, you only have to be a whisker over 500 to win the NL West by a margin.
hew
September 18th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
once torre lost the rubber arms of nelson and stanton he had no clue how to manage a bullpen – anyone who says different does not watch yankee games… go ask proctor, villone, quantrill, gordon, etc how their shoulders feel and look at the numbers of their seasons after they got under torre arm killer control
Go look at Gordon’s record in NY. Look at Proctor’s number in 2007 and 2007 and talk. Quantrall was run in the ground long before he ever came to NY. He was pitching in 80+ games in Toronto and LA for years. You forgot to include the legendary Felix Heredia and equally legenary Tanyon Sturtze and about 30 other stellar bullpenners..
We’re going to make excuses now for Girardi?
Every team has injuries. He didn’t get the job done. With a 200+ mill payroll and Hall of Famers around the diamond.,
He was out of his league.
But I guess Torre never connected well Cano in the first half of ‘06 or ‘07, right?
Proctor’s record in 2006 and 2007
Geez Torre is a hall of fame kinda manager..the real dissapointment was the lack of fire and disciple Joe G was suppose to bring..
Remember change was supposed to be good…where was the change? Sept 15Th?
““Someone should compare how the Dodgers and Yankees faired against teams they both played this year. I bet the results will be interesting.â€
Who cares? The Dodgers have a shot to win a title. We’re playing golf. They had the much better season even if they get swept out in rd 1.”
Well it is relevant. I’m happy Torre got lucky enough to play postseason ball this year but I’m not convinced by any stretch of the imagination that they are a better team. We have a better record than them and we are 10 games out of first. Meanwhile they are 4 games up on the Dbacks. Who could have predicted Tampa Bay having a season like this and the NL West choking. Anyone could have steered the Dodgers to the playoffs with their talent and their piss poor division
I think we can safely give Torre credit for making guys like Proctor, Sturtze, Gordon, etc.
You really going to cry that he burnt those scrubs out? They shouldn’t have even been in the league! Sturtze had the worst ERA of any active pitcher at the time and Torre made him a capable late inning guy.
If Torre was so bad with the pen why did they win 4 titles due to that same pen and why will he be attending the HOF induction for the closer?
BJTE: 1 playoff appearance in since 1981
JTE: 12 playoff appearances 4 world series titles, 2 al pennant. World series 50% of the time.
AJTE: No playoffs yet
I can’t believe people hate him.
“Anyone could have steered the Dodgers to the playoffs with their talent and their piss poor division”
Not Joe Girardi apparently.
You realize there are hundreds of managers who could have coaxed 95 wins from a team with this much talent and this much payroll.
Bottom line is, when Torre was here, he had his detractors. No manager is perfect. Torre did a great job overall, could have done better in some areas, and I was sorry he left. The only question I have is if he was so darn good, what happened to the playoffs the last few years? He certainly got them there. But he didn’t keep them there. That’s if you believe it has all that much to do with the manager.
There’s no way you can zip out Girardi and zip in Torre and know for certain that Torre would have been successful with this team. Frankly, all things being equal, Torre would have been fired at the all-star break. Which is one of the reasons he walked away. He’d had enough of the daily questions concerning his status. It would have been the same this year. And, frankly, many in the media seem to have a bit of amnesia about that.
It stinks that the Yankees will not make the playoffs this year. It had to happen sooner or later. If it wasn’t for the stadium being closed down, it wouldn’t be quite the same story. It would still be a downer, obviously, but the whole “this is the last year in Yankee Stadium” just makes it that much harder to deal with in some camps.
“You realize there are hundreds of managers who could have coaxed 95 wins from a team with this much talent and this much payroll.”
laughable
“The Yankees STILL have a better record, despite playing in the toughest division and league in baseball, whereas Torre is playing in the worst division in baseball.”
Bingo.
Torre managed for the last 28 years. Before he was given the best team in baseball he had NADA LA DIDA to show for all of his managing here there and everywhere. In fact he was fired at least once. In the NL and Torre couldn’t even come up with a winning club. Torre has almost 30 years on Girardi.
Joe “one and out” Torre? Thanks for the memories.
What I can’t believe is that anyone is opaque enough to actually believe the Yankees didn’t want him back. They didn’t want another losing postseason at his hands, as it had gotten quite old. So instead of telling him to vamoose, they gave him a lesser salary with incentives. A REAL winner would have taken the challenge in my opinion.
Good riddance to him. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Except to mention once again the beginning of this post. The Yankees are in the toughest division in the majors, played hampered with injuries all season, and still have a better record than Torre and his just abouts.
GO YANKEES! GO JOE GIRARDI!
Hilarious that people are bashing Torre.
You realize only one player changed from last yrs team right?
Hawkins for Vizcaino
And how did they hit and pitch and play this yr????
This is on the GM and manager.
The Dodgers were so high on Torre that they tried to sign Girardi first.
I don’t think Girardi was the savior we all thought he’d be but payroll is not an issue worth mentioning. Again all we have to do is look at the genius Jim Leyland over in Detroit. Detroit and NY both had disappointing years with high payrolls and aging superstars. We’ve been heading in the wrong direction for the past few years and Torre jumped ship before we finally learned our lesson. Hopefully they’ll finally make some needed changes this offseason.
“The Dodgers were so high on Torre that they tried to sign Girardi first.”
You think they aren’t happy as pigs in poop that they got Torre there??
The Yankee fans also almost revolted in 1995 when he was hired. How did that go the next 12 yrs?
The Cardinals had no business winning it all in 2006.
And some would argue the Giants had no business winning in February.
Ah, playoffs. Funny animal.
I’ll be honest with you, I think this team makes the playoffs with Torre. Until recently, Girardi was like a h.s. football coach with these guys and that approach clearly didn’t work.
But Torre was sick of the politics and it was pretty evident he had lost his touch in the postseason. It was probably best for all concerned that he left. Long-term, as they get younger, Girardi could be a good choice. I think if he loosens up a bit, he could do just fine. We’ll find out by next spring.
And spare me talking about the records and what division the Dodgers are in. You can only play the schedule you’re handed. You think the 2006 Cardinals are giving back their title? You have to make the postseason before you can win the World Series.
Payroll is a huge part of this discussion. You don’t have 200 million dollar payrolls to finish in 4th place. This is a learning on the job type job here. This is the NY Yankees. When you have this type of payroll and 4 mill fans a year they expect more than this.
EDUB
September 18th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Anyone could have steered the Dodgers to the playoffs with their talent and their piss poor division
__
I doubt that any baseball man anywhere will tell you that the Dodgers are a better team, or at least, have better players than Arizona, but, Arizona is about to go down the tubes.
Pete Abe has called this from Day 1 about Girardi. He was in over his head and this team didn’t respond to him from the get go.
GreenBeret7, don’t forget the great steve karsy, the legendary Antonio Osuna, and the godly dan miceli.
It is the same team Torre had last year. They made no major improvements or trades in the off season.
And Girardi will guide them to 4th with no signs of life all season. None. They had one long winning streak all season. Right after the ASG.
Torre guided them to the playoffs and the best last 100 games of any team in the game.
I notice a difference.
Trisha: What kind of drugs are you on? I’m serious. It has to be something great. Share with the class.
JK: Girardi’s agent invented that story to get more money out of the Yankees, which he did. Nice try, though.
lol at the Torre haters.
He’s going to the postseason with 100 million dollars less.
Joe Girardi is a horrible manager.. The worst Yankees manager of my 20+ years of watching them.
this Zack Hample guy, he’s the one that caught 2 homers in back to back days. he’s really something. he never left a game without catching a baseball. unbelieveable.
If the season is all about getting to the playoffs, then Torre was successful (it would seem) this season, and Girardi was not. It does not mean Torre could have done it here; it does not mean he wouldn’t have. Impossible to play that game.
Girardi is always saying you learn from your mistakes. Well, I’d say he probably learned quite a bit this season in several areas. I think he’ll be better for it next season.
Man, that Girardi is a terrible manager. If only he could have led his team to win as many games as Torre’s Dodgers have won this year…
Nevermind the fact that the Dodgers weren’t a playoff team until the traded for Manny. It’s all because of Mr. 4 Rings!
Going back thru all the relievers Torre had from 2001-2007 it is amazing to think they went to the playoffs every single season.
This man could only use his 8th inning guy one day at a time for one inning at a time. He never had a lefty. Gordon was throwing up in the pen before big games.
All the whining over managers is ridiculous. Look at Joe Maddon and the Rays or Leyland as I mentioned. Maddon’s Rays were TERRIBLE last year and here they are now. You can’t predict baseball and you certainly can’t pin a season on the manager.
The Yankees are finally getting what they deserve in not making the playoffs and hopefully this will open some eyes up in the front office for Cashman to get some more help
What has been successful about Girardi’s first yr here?
Are the young players better? No.
The vets happy? No.
His in game skills improve? Not really.
His media skills? Terrible.
Joe Torre did a great job here in NY. But he is gone so please let’s move on
“Hilarious that people are bashing Torre.
You realize only one player changed from last yrs team right?
Hawkins for Vizcaino
And how did they hit and pitch and play this yr????”
That’s funny, I don’t remember Posada having 600 plate appearances this year or Wang pitching 200 innings this year or Roger Clemens replacing our ineffective pitchers this year. I need to go back and look at the year in review. How the hell did I miss all that??
And seriously, you assign 100% blame on melky/Cano playing like crap on Girardi. It seems to me that a huge amount of the blame for players playing like crap should go on the players. Do you have any in-game strategic criticisms of Girardi? That would be more meaningful than an argument of “well Player X sucks so therefore the manager sucks.”
Boston dealt with crazy injuries this year. But they had decent minor leaguers to fill in like Masterson and Lowrie. The yankee farm system failed to provide any answers. This is why the team failed this year. If you want to blame someone other than the players, look at Cashman before you look at Girardi. The farm system woes are on Cash’s head.
And to those who cite the 200 million dollar payroll, do you realize that a crazy high amount of at bats and innings this year have been given to the guys who make near the minimum? it isn’t the big expensive stars who have been to blame for the poor performance. it’s the guys like melky and Molina and Cano and Ponson and rasner and Betemit. Cano is the only one of that group making big-time money. The healthy guys that are getting paid 8 figures have done very well, with the exception of Pettitte.
I hope Joe Torre is reading the posts here, enjoying his bigelow green tea and laughing to himself.
Also, forget for a second about Torre/Girardi.
What’s the Yankees’ record right now if Wang is healthy? If Joba is a starter from day one? If Posada and Cano are playing at their career marks?
Pete I know, I know. Everyone is a liar in the Yankee organization, including Brian Cashman, and you have the real story. Sweet.
Trisha has been on some kind of drugs all season.
I mean this is the same person who backed up Igawa, Ponson, Farnsworth and Pavano.
It’s like Mother Theresa here.
Yes, Torre had to deal with injuries, but I cannot recall Torre ever having to deal with the combination of a depleted rotation + an anemic offense.
In 2007, the offense was relatively healthy with the exception of first base issues. Mussina was terrible, but Wang and Pettite were solid and the rotation improved a bit towards the end of the year- still, the rotation was the weak link in the playoffs.
In 2006, the rotation had 2 above average starters in Wang and Mussina and innings eater in Johnson and an offense that was great thanks to the replacement of an injured Sheff with Bobby Abreu.
In 2005, another great offense plus the emergence of Wang and the wonder years of small and chacon.
2004- another great offensive year, starting pitching was servicable for the regular season but sucked for postseason play.
2003- another great offense with pettite, wells, mussina and clemens each throwing 200+ innings.
again, can go and on on but you get the picture. this year no wang, no hughes, no ipk, no joba for part of the season, a pettite in decline. the only reliable starter all year has been mussina. offensively- arod out for part of the year, posada out, matsui out, below average beginning of the year for jeter, no production from melky or cano.
Rebecca, well said. A healthy Matsui would have helped too.
Also: http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kuntzru01.shtml
“What’s the Yankees’ record right now if Wang is healthy? If Joba is a starter from day one? If Posada and Cano are playing at their career marks?”
How about if I told the Sox that Ortiz will miss 2 months and be 70% the rest of the way, Manny will quit and be traded in July, the pen besides Papelbon will be Mets bad, Lugo won’t play after May, Ellsbury will have huge prolonged slumps, and Beckett will miss time?
You realize every team has issues right?
Yeah the Yankee organization is really afraid to say or do what it needs to and wants to. Cashman saved Torre’s sorry butt the season before when the Yankees wanted to can him. You think there was going to be a huge hue and cry to save him as manager after he no longer produced in the postseason? If they wanted to pick a year to send him packing and probably be applauded, last season would have been it. They wanted him to stay but they wanted him to stay and win. And about politicis – that’s a joke. That was well taken care of when Cashman put it on the line and Steinbrenner told him he was running the organization. Torre had a pretty free ride after that.
The drug I’m on is called truth Pete.
Well, you do love Torre. Looking forward to seeing Torre lose in the first round. Again.
Torre made the post season in 2005 with Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon pitching in the rotation and winning 18+ games!
He made the playoffs in 2007 with Mussina benched, DeSalvo, Clippard and Wright all pitching multiple times, and no pen in front of Mo til Joba came up.
In 2006 he started Jaret Wright in a deciding Game 4!
Spare us all. The guy did more with less than Girardi.
So Terry Francona is a genius because JD Drew carried the team for a month then Pedroia put the team on his back the way through? Not to mention Lester being an absolute stud and Dice-K (minus the walks) holding his own. The managers don’t play the games. We were unfortunate in that nobody on the Yankees is having monster years and our pitching has been beyond inconsistent (besides Moose)
“What’s the Yankees’ record right now if Wang is healthy? If Joba is a starter from day one? If Posada and Cano are playing at their career marks?”
That’s irrelevant. Joe Torre…he would have just used the skills and powers of the 4 Rings to find a way to win. That’s just the type of manager he is.
Captain Clutch would have also hit into less double plays if Green Tea Joe was still here.
“In 2006 he started Jaret Wright in a deciding Game 4!”
What a genious! How did that game turn out again?
trisha – BRING BOBBY BACK!
September 18th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Bingo.
Torre managed for the last 28 years. Before he was given the best team in baseball he had NADA LA DIDA to show for all of his managing here there and everywhere. In fact he was fired at least once. In the NL and Torre couldn’t even come up with a winning club. Torre has almost 30 years on Girardi.
_
I don’t really care that Torre left so much, just didn’t care to see Girardi.
However, you are wrong about Torre as a manager before getting “The Dream Team”. He broke in as a player manager of the Mets in 1977-81, a team that even John McGraw couldn’t win with.
In 1982, he took a last place Atlanta Braves team to the NL West title, then 2nd and 3rd place finishes against the NL power team, the Dodgers.
In 1990, he took over a last place Cards team and they finished in 2nd place and then 2 third place finishes. They were still bad teams because management was changing and they wouldn’t spend money.
“I’ll be honest with you, I think this team makes the playoffs with Torre. Until recently, Girardi was like a h.s. football coach with these guys and that approach clearly didn’t work.”
Pete, do you really believe that having Torre as a manager would have changed the fortunes of Ponson and Rasner and Hughes and Kennedy and Cano and Melky and Molina and Pudge? I can’t see how that is possible. These are the main guys that have played the worst at the big league level. Do you think Torre being the manager would have prevented Posada and Wang and ARod and Damon and Bruney and Hughes and Kennedy from getting DL’d?
I guess what I am asking is, Can you please explain what exactly you think would have been so different in the performance of these specific players if Torre was the manager? Ponson and rasner have always been crap. Molina has always been a terrible hitter. melky was never a good hitter and he took a turn for the worse this year. Do you think Torre would have turned cano into a .320 hitter and a more disciplined hitter this year even though the hitting coach is the same guy? Do you think melky would have batted in the .280’s if Torre was the manager? I don’t really see it. Those 2 guys just played like crap this year, and I don’t see how it is anybody’s fault except their own.
“I mean this is the same person who backed up Igawa, Ponson, Farnsworth and Pavano.”
Oh give me a break “paulio” – cute name. Everyone who is honest will admit that Farnsworth had done a really good job and turned himself around. I supported Ponson as long as Ponson was producing. Pavano, I was all for as long as he could help the Yankees. Yeah I called Igawa wrong. Big deal.
Go cry in your beer and pray for machines. That’s about all someone like you can tolerate.
The front office was tired of the clout Torre had with the media. It’s actually quite funny because >50% of the media wanted him fired after the 2006 season. The FO was also tired of the way he handled the bullpen, the favoritism he showed towards vets vs. rookies and how loose his lips were with the media.
Pete, you might complain about how tight Girardi is with information but this is clearly what the organization favors. Getting information out of the Yankees on injuries with minor leaguers is like pulling teeth and Cashman was clearly pissed about the leaked Joba rules last year.
I also think the Yankees had ZERO plans of the 70 year old manager opening the new Yankee stadium.
“In 2006 he started Jaret Wright in a deciding Game 4!â€
What a genious! How did that game turn out again?
Hence the point, GENIUS.
RustyJohn,
Wang was hurt in the begining of 07 and we also had Rasner, Pavano and Igawa in the Starting rotation to the open the season. Starting pitching was a big problem last year.
Jeez enough with Torre.
If he was here maybe we would have done better, or maybe they would have done worse. No one knows and more importantly, who cares!
The man is not here.
I dunno what’s worse: The “If only Torre were here” statements or the “If only we had Santana” statements.
Wow its like a civil war broke out in here….
Pete, you are really on top of the stories and that is the only reason I read your blog. When it comes to analysis, well a kid could do much better.
This is the sort of “analysis” you write: “Since Pete Abraham started a blog about the New York Yankees, they have failed to reach the World Series and this year, they will fail to reach the post season. Isn’t it time for Pete to shut down this blog?”
Agree with you RustyJohn! Yankees were on the top three in the MLB in OPS (Pete, this means OBP + SLG or on base percentage plus slugging, heard about stats? Heard about using facts to report?) from 2002 to 2007 and this year they are very average, middle of the pack.
Of course, if they had better pitching and defense, that makes up for the lack of offense.
This are the reasons the Yankees have failed, not because Joe Torre is not around anymore.
Trisha you have been a fun read all season but you are out of your mind.
I can’t take someone seriously when they support Igawa, Ponson, Farnsworth, Pavano etc.
If they fired Girardi today you would be bashing him tomorrow and praising the new manager. I respect the homer in you but are a joke.
Torre made the post season when Carl Pavano started Opening Day.
Read that again.
“I dunno what’s worse: The “If only Torre were here†statements or the “If only we had Santana†statements.”
Wow. The two things that the team needs. A good manager and an ace pitcher.
How is that bad to talk about?
Paulio: Yes. Every team has their own issues.
Sometimes teams, such as the Red Sox, can overcome them. Sometimes, in a bad year, teams can’t.
GB – He had losing records in 1977, 78, 79, 80, 81, 90, 94, and 95. He was handed a dream team with the Yankees. And even then he stopped being effective. I had enough of him to last a lifetime. I don’t believe for a minute he could have brought this broken team to the postseason this year. And even if he did, I believe it once again would have been one and out. I agree with Pete on the supposition that he stopped being effective in the postseason.
I think Pete is a great and funny journalist but he doesn’t corner the market on truth. What I will say for him, however, is that when he has called something wrong, he has come back on and said he did.
Why on earth does being a Yankee fan consist of such polarizing views? Why does it have to consist of absolute either/ors?
Why does it have to be either ARod or Jeter? Why can’t the Yankees team and fanbase be big enough that both have their place on the team and both are embrace as such for that?
Why can’t we embrace Joe Girardi as the new manager while being appreciative AND respectful of what Joe Torre did for this team?
It goes on and on.
Honestly. scowl
torre didnt have to deal with a rays team that took the division which left the yankees fighting for the wild card with the sox and the twins, the injuries, inconsistant offense with 3 automatic outs in cano, cabrera & molina kept them out of the wild card.
“So Terry Francona is a genius because JD Drew carried the team for a month then Pedroia put the team on his back the way through? Not to mention Lester being an absolute stud and Dice-K (minus the walks) holding his own. The managers don’t play the games. We were unfortunate in that nobody on the Yankees is having monster years and our pitching has been beyond inconsistent (besides Moose)”
With this logic that means any manager can win with any team. Just appoint the janitor! It doesn’t matter.
Well, how did Grady Little do in 2003? How did Francona do with the same team a yr later?
You are nuts if you don’t think a good manager means a lot. Francona has got everything out of that team and more this yr. They’ve lost just as much as the Yanks yet they don’t complain about it. Something Girardi didn’t do.
“I can’t take someone seriously when they support Igawa, Ponson, Farnsworth, Pavano etc.”
I can’t take someone seriously when they don’t support a Yankee player – unless the player is not trying.
Wow. The two things that the team needs. A good manager and an ace pitcher.
How is that bad to talk about?
You are right. People should continue to whine..er..I mean talk about them not being here. Thus they will magically appear! Woooooooooooo!
There is a point where people should just move on and some can’t seem to do that.
You think Cano hits .260 for Torre and Bowa???
When him and Kennedy get traded for Chad Billingsley and Kemp in Nov and Cano hits 340 in LA what will you say?
Angel okay I can deal with that. What good Torre did was appreciated, and in my view it was time for him to go. Now I support Girardi and wouldn’t want Torre back because I definitely felt it was time for him to go.
I’d trade Cano for Chad Billingsley if that was possible, then sign either one of the two of CC and Burnett. Somehow plug a hole at 2B. It’s 50/50 how I feel about Cano, but if Torre wanted Cano on his team then maybe the Yanks could work something out. It is his first down year, but Cano is a slacker sometimes. Billingsly is a horse and would be a great addition to the rotation. Just some food for thought!
“Wow. The two things that the team needs. A good manager and an ace pitcher.
How is that bad to talk about?”
Well, it isn’t everyones opinion that we don’t currently have either of those.
Girardi Fans:
What has he done this year that has impressed you?
I don’t want to hear bullpen management because in July/Aug when the Yankees needed it the pen went into retreat mode.
He’s been flat out terrible from the moment he let Mussina pitch to Manny with 1st open in April.
RustyJohn
September 18th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Yes, Torre had to deal with injuries, but I cannot recall Torre ever having to deal with the combination of a depleted rotation + an anemic offense.
2004- another great offensive year, starting pitching was servicable for the regular season but sucked for postseason play.
_
After the 2003 season, NYY lost their three top starters…Pettitte, Clemens and Wells…all left for FA. The re