A historic achievement for the Moose
-
- September
- 24
The Baseball Reference.com Stat of the Day is an interesting one.
Mike Mussina is the first AL right-hander to win 19+ games at the age of 39 since Early Wynn went 22-10 for the 1959 White Sox. Back in those days, when men were men, he threw 255.2 innings over 37 starts.
The only other AL right-hander of that age to win 19 games was some dude named Cy Young who did it three times from 1907-09.
Can you imagine that if in April I wrote that that the Yankees would be eliminated on Sept. 23 and the only drama would be whether Mike Mussina could win 20 games? They would have locked me up. Maybe I should get locked up anyway. I’m just saying.
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We have to bring him back next year
You can tell how bitter Hank is about Torre making the playoffs while Girardi is going home.
His recent rant shows remorse and if I’m Girardi, I actually feel worse because the owner is showing regret and anger that his former manager is doing so well.
Just the fact that Hank is allowed to embarrass the franchise with these ridiculous rants shows that Hal has no power at all. If he did, he would have told Hank to shut up a long time ago.
Like I said yesterday, I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong! I’m a big believer in the Moose now. And yes, he needs to come back. What better team than the Yankees to go for the Holy Grail of pitching with?
Repost, but relevant to the subject.
This is from mlb.com. The rest is kind of bittersweet, so I’ll just post this graphic:
Major League slice of life
A snapshot of the top five leaders in various individual and team categories in baseball from 1995-2007.
Player Hits
Derek Jeter 2,356
Alex Rodriguez 2,239
Garret Anderson 2,220
Craig Biggio 2,122
Manny Ramirez 2,122
Player Saves
Trevor Hoffman 499
Mariano Rivera 443
Billy Wagner 358
Troy Percival 324
Jose Mesa 319
Player Runs
Alex Rodriguez 1,497
Derek Jeter 1,379
Craig Biggio 1,352
Barry Bonds 1,337
Chipper Jones 1,294
Player Wins
Greg Maddux 216
Randy Johnson 203
Andy Pettitte 201
Mike Mussina 198
Tom Glavine 195
Team Wins
Yankees 1,252
Braves 1,230
Red Sox 1,165
Indians 1,141
Cardinals 1,117
Team Playoff wins
Yankees 78
Braves 48
Cardinals 38
Indians 35
Red Sox 33
Hank makes people giggle.
That’s all he does.
period.
*former manager is doing so well in the slums.
Listen to this stat!!
Do you realize that Rasner made the third-most starts this season behind Mussina and Pettitte
scary!!
Santana – 8 innings with 10 Ks last night and only 2 runs. Saving the Mets yet again. He hasn’t lost in over 3 months.
It’s ok though, we have Hughes and Kennedy to lead us to a title next year.
patrick max,
That’s the spirit! No sense dwelling on the past.
Rasner has made 20 starts for us, that is scary. Ponson has made 14.
Shows what Cashman/Girardi thought of Hughes/Kennedy that they trotted out those rejects every 5 days in an admitted ‘rebuilding’ year. Instead of getting the kids experience up here, our season sunk on the hands of Ponson/Rasner.
What a waste of a year. I wish George was still active, he would never stand for this.
win or lose this weekend, Moose should go in the Hall!!! He does not need a 20 win season to make his career valid!
Moose back in 09!
Just for fun, anyone want to throw out starting rotations for the AL East next season?
Poor TBS.
Last year they got a Rockies-D’Backs NLCS.
This year they’ll likely get a Anaheim-Tampa ALCS.
Yankees –
Wang
Pettitte
Mussina
Joba/Aceves
Hughes
I have no confidence in their ability to sign CC. He’s going west. I doubt we make any significant trades this off-season either.
Sox –
Beckett
Burnett
Matsuzaka
Lester
Wakefield
They will trade Buchholz for a young C or OF’er like Kemp because they are a smart organization, while we are not.
Rays –
Price
Kazmir
Shields
Garza
Jackson
They will package Hellickson, Mcgee, Davis etc. to add even more to their young lineup and probably grab a legit closer. Make no mistake, this team is going to be loaed in 2009.
Just wondering… which team is everyone pulling for this postseason since our boys will be golfing?
I am a part-time Dodgers fan (my dad was born in Brooklyn and remained a fan all these years), but I wouldn’t mind seeing the Cubs go all the way… makes the whole 2004 thing seem a little less impressive.
lol
even though we are all hurting
i betcha TBS is hurting more
im rooting for the cubbies or maybe even the phillies
“Maybe I should get locked up anyway. I’m just saying.”
hey, it might improve your social life. you never know.
just kidding . joke.
Moose is very borderline for the hall. I think he needs 300.
If he goes in. Then what? Schilling? Pettitte? Cmon, this is the Hall of Fame. It should be the best of the best not the best of the good.
you gotta have faith,
They’ll still end up talking about the Yankees.
Moose got 2 yrs/23 mil last contract.
What do the Yanks offer now. Hard to see him getting less than 11.5 next year.
While I think it is a mistake, I think it is very likely we see the same rotation we saw this year except Joba replaces Kennedy. If we miss CC, I doubt Cash wants Burnett or Sheets.
I also think he will overvalue Hughes/Kennedy and refuse to shop them for a big bat which is a mistake in my mind.
This organization is going backwards with Cashman at the helm. If we don’t sign CC, whats the plan B? Cash doesn’t have one because he is too attached to prospects.
pete: If any of us had thought that, we’d be locked up.
Random statistic: Not only are Moose and Andy potentially battling for one spot in next year’s rotation, they’re also dueling to become the winning-est pitcher of the 2000’s. MLB’s winning-est pitchers from 2000-2008:
Tim Hudson 135 (out for year with TJ surgery)
Randy Johnson 134 (losing effectiveness)
Andy Pettitte 134
Greg Maddux 133 (losing effectiveness, possibly retiring)
Mike Mussina 133
Roy Oswalt 128
Thanks, E-Man.
Yankees:
-Wang
-AJ
-Joba
-Moose
-Pettitte
Red Sox:
-Beckett
-Matsuzaka
-Lester
-Wakefield*
-Laps/Master
Rays:
-Kazmir
-Price
-Garza
-Shields
-Jackson
*What a steal for the Red Sox. They’re only paying a guy who can give them 15 wins a year $4M per annum. And this can go on forever. The Red Sox can add the option each year until they decline to pick up an option.
im not sure if anyone mentioned or saw this but espn is calling the red sox team of the decade…
AL – Rays.
NL – Phillies, by a landslide. Can’t root for the Dodgers/Torre and endure the Yankee bashing that will proceed that. Sick of the Cubs and their stupid curse and they will become Red Sox lite when they win. Despise the Mets but would like to see Santana win a ring just to show Hank/Hal what they missed.
Who is more upset the Yankees will be idle in October
a) The players who will be home.
b) The fans who will not have their team to root for.
c) The NY beat writers who will have to rehash the season for the 150th time until the hot stove starts
d) The national media who either needs to find a new October “villain or re-rehash what the Yankee beat writers have written that day about the Yankees not playing.
I made a bet in May that this was the year that Moose would win 20 – and I also called that it would be ironic because it would be the year that the Yanks miss the playoffs. I made the bet because Moose always seemed to pitch to keep the Yankees in the game and I thought that would be enough to get the win…
Moose always has bad luck. If he doesn’t get to 20 wins – you can look back at the ONE BLOWN SAVE that Mariano has had all year. That was a W for Moose….
I think the Yankees go hard after both AJ & CC to hedge their bets. There are, after all, open slots if you get both. Can’t risk the eggs in one basket method.
Also, don’t think they’ll get ridiculous with CC. There’s going to be a cut off point. They’ll make a very good, generous offer and leave it up to CC. No richarding around.
Good thing we have the best bullpen in baseball. Too bad we are eliminated. What a weapon Coke, Bruney, Joba, Marte and Mo would be in a playoff run.
Phillies.
ABB.
Cubs, I guess. I’m sick of hearing about them.
Who wins the AL Central?
I’m going to go out on a limb and say…the Twins.
Jamie Moyer, 21-7 for the Mariners in 2003 (age 40)
Gary September 24th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
im not sure if anyone mentioned or saw this but espn is calling the red sox team of the decade…
Sure. Who else is there at this point? Maybe Angels if they win it this year.
Sox must be stopped at all costs. If they win it this season people are going to start the throwing around the “D” word.
Moyer’s lefthanded, as is David Wells, who won 19 with the Yanks at 39 in 2002.
“Gary
September 24th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
im not sure if anyone mentioned or saw this but espn is calling the red sox team of the decade…”
Of course they did… but who else could they say?
Yanks have been to 3 WS, winning 1.
Cards are solid every year, made the playoffs a bunch of times and won 1 WS, been to 2.
Bottom line is the sox have won more WS than anyone else this decade and that’s all that matters – at least that’s the easy way to end the argument.
Blondie:
Having done so for the 1st 39 years of his life, Moyer decided in favor of pitching left-handed for his 40th year as well.
Pete was rather clear about Mussina being the 1st AL RIGHT-HANDER to win 19 at age 39 or beyond.
Blondie,
Pete’s talking about righties, but still Moyer’s a great story.
Can’t help but think that Hank’s comment motivated Moose. Just a little.
Also, it seems that Moose is a better teammate.
I’d root for the Mets against the Cubs or Dodgers believe or or not. The Cubs fanbase/franchise will overtake the Red Sox as the most insufferable in sports if they win. And of course, don’t want Torre to win.
The Orioles knocked 25 million dollars off their payroll this year. Are they trying to go small market or will they be big buyers this off season?
Pat:
O’s may well be a player in the Teixeira thing as he is a Baltimore area native.
“Sox must be stopped at all costs. If they win it this season people are going to start the throwing around the “D†word.”
well, cashman made it a top priority to stop the sox. he put in his all. nothing was more important to him than stopping the dreaded sox. yeah right.
he doesn’t even dislike them. why should he care about stopping them?
Moyer, left-handed … ack. I missed that he didn’t include lefties in the research.
What’s the point of eliminating Moyer though? Would it have dminished Moose’s achievement to include a guy who happens to throw from the other side? Some of this stuff is just so arbitrary.
Hey, I hate that the Red Sox are doing so well, but they are a talented team. I like their manager. They’re having themselves a nice little run here. I hate it, but it’s the truth.
Doesn’t mean the Yankees won’t be back.
Now, does the decade go from 2000 to 2009 or 2001 to 2010? I always get confused about that. Or are they starting with 2004?
The players will feel the worst. The National Media will play the Cubs angle and still has the Dodgers, Mets, Phillies, Red Sox, Angels, Chi Sox, to carry them.
The Yankees are no longer THE franchise in the sport, sadly. It is up to Cashman to restore Yankee pride and bring us back to the top.
Oooh. Oliver Perez vs. Big Z. And the Brewers have CC going tonight. If things go wrong for the Mets, they could be tied in the WC by the end of the night.
And – by the way – that’s cool about Moose.
I don’t think he’s first ballot HOF, maybe not second, but I think he’ll go in.
“The Cubs fanbase/franchise will overtake the Red Sox as the most insufferable in sports if they win.”
Wouldn’t that be a good thing for Yankee fans, if the Cubs stole some thunder from the Sox?
Also, if you’re rooting based on the reactions of fans, don’t root for the Mets, unless you enjoy hearing even louder “Yankees suck” chants during subway series games.
“And of course, don’t want Torre to win.”
Agreed, not because I have anything against Torre, but because the media fawning over him and criticism of Girardi and the FO for “insulting” Torre would be nauseating.
“Hey, I hate that the Red Sox are doing so well, but they are a talented team. I like their manager. They’re having themselves a nice little run here. I hate it, but it’s the truth.”
This isn’t all that shocking. If history tells us nothing else, it tells us that the Red Sox always do well at the beginning of centuries.
I’ve been thinking about this for awhile now:
Which teams may be in contention for CC?
Yankees
Chi Sox (might be a good fit)
Rangers (they have to turn the corner eventually)
Phillies (makes sense to me)
Dodgers (better of spending $ on bats)
Total Darkhorses:
Braves
Mariners
Brewers
I can’t see the Red Sox and Mets moving on him – they’re money is tied up elsewhere. The Blue Jays don’t need any more starters (let alone lefties). Cubs have big Z and Harden.
Fredo
A Boras /Angelos contract negotiation could be must see TV.
“I don’t think he’s first ballot HOF, maybe not second, but I think he’ll go in.”
I agree. He’ll make it after a few years even if he doesn’t hit 20 wins.
Even dinosaur voters like Murray Chass will come around and vote for him after a couple years because he’s racked up so many neat accomplishments in a tough era and division.
“A Boras /Angelos contract negotiation could be must see TV.”
Only if the script included both guys spontaneously combusting.
Anybody else feel their skin crawl watching Paplebon and his obnoxious Sawx brethren dousing each other with champagne?
You’d think making the playoffs for a reigning WS champion (gag) wouldn’t generate such a celebration. Pointless.
Doreen,
If he gets to 300 wins, he’ll definitely get in. Dude will probably get all his wins in the AL East. And it looks like he’s on track to do it before his 42nd birthday.
I’m impressed. And I love how he does it more with his brain than his stuff.
vtred:
i rather us not be THE franchise in the sport
i want fans who love the game and the team, not just people who never watch, and only know who derek jeter is
also it’s much more fun to stick it to the “franchise”
much more rewarding if you ask me lol
*first ballot
TK:
I don’t know. To me, making it to the postseason is the hardest part. Doesn’t bother me much. From what I’ve seen of their past celebrations, last night was relatively subdued.
“Random statistic: Not only are Moose and Andy potentially battling for one spot in next year’s rotation, they’re also dueling to become the winning-est pitcher of the 2000’s. MLB’s winning-est pitchers from 2000-2008:
Tim Hudson 135 (out for year with TJ surgery)
Randy Johnson 134 (losing effectiveness)
Andy Pettitte 134
Greg Maddux 133 (losing effectiveness, possibly retiring)
Mike Mussina 133
Roy Oswalt 128”
Randy Johnson actually pitched well this year. Not like him of old but better than Pettitte. 17 of his 29 starts were quality games and he went 6+ innings in 13 of his last 15 games. He suffers from garbage offense though. He’ll be back next year for his 300th win and maybe 5000th strikeout.
Too bad he couldn’t handle NY.
August 10th, Figgins hit that 12 hopper in the 9th as Betemit and Cano both posed.
Yeah I want that game back too. Actually that series and whole road trip may have been the low point of the season.
mel –
I agree – if he plays and gets 300 wins, he’ll go in first ballot. I base my feelings about 2nd or 3rd ballot on this current numbers, in case he (“r” word).
Have I mentioned before that Moose is probably my favorite Yankee? It’s the crossword puzzles.
I don’t begrudge anyone for celebrating because I’d want our guys to celebrate, too.
I do like that they weren’t celebrating a division title, though.
after the game last night someone made a good point,
for the past couple of years yes we have been making the playoffs, but how many times have we been eliminated in the first round?
too many times
we just dont need a team that can get to the playoffs, we need a team that can get there and win it all.
I was wrong on several fronts this season, from Hughes, to winning 93 games and the AL East….However none of these compare to how off base I was regarding Mussina…I recall proclaiming him to be out of the rotation by Memorial Day…...As for Boston, they must go through a very good Anaheim Angel club, their quest for repeating very well will end there…..
Bronx Jeers –
That road trip coincided with my family’s summer vacation. We went to Toronto and watched a game from the stadium and a couple of games from the centerfield windows. Then we went to Cleveland and saw a game there. At any rate, all we did was scoreboard watch. It was painful. Painful. I didn’t watch much of the Yankees at that time, but I remember one of the games in LA was on Fox and we were going out to dinner, but before we left, we witnessed the Yankees actually ahead in the game, and felt confident. Well, by the time we got into the car and put on the radio (XM – hurray!), it was a different game.
PAINFUL road trip.
Doreen,
Ahh…He was probably my unfavorite Yankee, but that status has been passed on to his understudy.
I’ve really liked the change in his demeanor. No more throwing guys under the bus. And it was very nice of him to credit the bullpen last night.
A decade begins with the 1 year (e.g. 1981) and ends with a 0 year (e.g. 1990).
Let’s go Cubs
Wang
CC
Joba
Mussina
Hughes
Oh, I should also say, the scoreboards these days have not just the scores, but the infield, so if there were runners on base, you could see that, and they had the name of the batter. Need I say which two Yankees seemed to leave the most men on base? Painful.
I think Moose’s HOF chances depend on how the era he played in is viewed by the voters.
If they are going to stick it to the guys they think did PED’s, then its only fair to take into account the accomplishments of the guys (like Moose) that are thought to be clean.
If they do that, and he can get another 15-20 wins, he probably gets in.
Doreen,
I know one, who’s the other? The one who lives in Vegas?
mel –
He REALLY gave credit to the bullpen. That was nice to hear. He literally could not have done it without them – no more CGs for the Moose.
mel –
Yup.
mel –
Understudy? Fellow Stanford grad?
Well, hopefully, Roger will hold off retirement for a couple more years. Being on the ballot with Roger should help Moose.
I will root for the Rays to win it all.
That 3-7 West Coast roadtrip pretty much ended their season.
They dug themselves a hole that became too much to overcome.
I would also add that Joba’s injury also hurt bigtime. Once he left the rotation, you kind of saw the air come out of the Yankees balloon. They didn’t show much fight after that.
I discount this little streak they are on now because it came after they were out of contention. A team that only plays well when the pressure is off is not a playoff team.
Doreen,
Nope, fellow Pac-10 alum. The one that’s compared to Moose.
pat m ,
you weren’t wrong about moose. you were right about the old way he pitched.
you just didn’t know he was going to do a 180 and pitch inside again.
and as far as hughes, i think you’re right he’s going to be a good pitcher.
he just needs developmental time.
So, since Boston’s the team of the decade they’ll be getting the night game’s on getaway days to accomodate ESPN and the gate receipts?
I was at the August 8th ( Kennedy’s start ) & the 9th inning debacle that was August 10th…...It was then that I came to the profound conclusion that the 2008 Yankee season was taking on water…..Although I maintained a sense of blinded belief that they’d turn things around as they had in the past, I knew it was over….Never been so wrong about so many things as I was in 2008…...Bad season all around…
“A decade begins with the 1 year (e.g. 1981) and ends with a 0 year (e.g. 1990).”
So 1990 was part of the 80’s?
Maybe that makes sense on the west coast.
I remember that the Yankees had to beat the Braves in 99’ to become the team of the decade, not the Mets in 2000
“So, since Boston’s the team of the decade they’ll be getting the night game’s on getaway days to accomodate ESPN and the gate receipts?”
I think it is a tribute to their professionalism that the anchors on ESPN take off their Boston Red Sox hats while they are on the air.
Jerks.
If you look around the game, most of the young pitchers Hughes’ age struggled this year. They struggled in the areas of fastball command, maximizing their pitch counts, and winning games.
In other words, teams tried to push them through before they were ready.
Its awfully tough to learn how to pitch at the big league level.
That’s why I hope the Yankees keep Hughes in AAA all next season. Let pitch 150+ innings at the AAA level, learn to use all of his pitches in any count, and let him deal with the ups and downs it brings.
If they do that, they will get a much better and more finished product if/when he gets his next shot at being a fulltime member of the rotation.
mel,
yep
it’s long and I sound depressed, but it’s my thoughts on video
[/shameless self plug]
When the pressure was on – They went on a 3-7 West Coast trip. They lost 3 1-run game to the Angels and got swept. They did nothing against the Twins.
They lost 4/6 to the Jays and then they couldn’t beat Byrd and Wakefield to keep them alive. That was when the season ended.
They are playing well now because there is no pressure, they were written off 6 weeks ago.
I don’t know why some of you guys torture yourselves and watch ESPN.
You know they are reveling in the Yankees missing the playoffs. Why watch it?
Its not like you are going to learn anything from watching their shows. Their shows are reduced to three things these days:
1. Promotions of everything Disney.
2. ESPN anchors thanking themselves for “breaking news” they didn’t break.
3. Providing a forum for Peter Gammons daily Red Sox infomericals.
Aside from that, there is nothing to be gained by watching it.
Contrary to popular belief, the Yankees aren’t going to fold the franchise because they missed the playoffs this year. Much like the Red Sox didn’t when they missed the post-season in 2006.
You have to have a season like this to formulate the type of change needed to go forward.
No more “patch jobs” this off-season. Its now full blown rebuilding and I say, its about damn time.
Speaking of the Moose and the Moyer, here’s a really funny blog entry:
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/mussina-doing-it-jamie-moyers-way/
Sounds of Sinatra in my head…
SJ –
I think you are right – the problem is that Yankee fans look at Joba and expect the other young pitchers to adjust to the level of competition as well as he did.
I think Hughes will benefit from fall ball and when he comes up next year (which seems inevitable given the roster and the injury realities) he is able to pitch to his potential.
mel –
I think I was thinking of the right guy, wrong school. SoCal?
Agree 100% SJ. The best thing the Yankees can do is leave Hughes in the minors next year and let him throw 150+ dominant AAA innings. By the end of the year, he would have mastered all of his pitches and perfected his changeup. Then in 2010 or end of 2009, he can come up and never have to go back down.
The worst thing they can do is pencil him into the rotation again based on what he does tonight and in the AFL or even have a ‘competition’ where he is involved because that is not the best for his development. He needs to be in the minors and the 6th starter next year
“No more “patch jobs†this off-season. Its now full blown rebuilding and I say, its about damn time.”
I couldn’t agree more… but would you mind playing arm-chair GM, so we can get an idea of what’s in your head? I know you and I both dislike Cano (but that’s been beaten to death here) and love CC… but what else?
Hughes has spent time at AAA – another year there will not benefit him.
Why would ESPN revel in the Yanks being out of the playoffs? They like lower ratings and less advertising revenue for some reason?
SJ: I respectfully disagree.
I don’t think you need to blow up the entire team. I think you need to plan better for instances where your most important players miss most of the season.
When it comes down to it, we didn’t miss the playoffs by that much.
A couple different games, a couple different calls go our way and we’re in. A healthy Wag, we’re in. A healthy Jorge, we’re in. ETC.
I’ve been saying this for weeks now, I think Abreu must be resigned.
I’m all for getting younger, more athletic, etc. But people are grossly undervaluing this guy. What seperated Abreu from the other 30+ overpaid veterans on this roster? Oh yeah, he NEVER gets hurt.
I love Matsui to death, but the guy is broken down. He missed almost a whole year with the wrist. Then it was the hammy, the knee, now the other knee. Damon is constantly coming up with little nagging injuries. Giambi has spent hundreds of games on the DL the past few years.
Abreu has played in at least 150 games every year since 1998. His numbers have not tailed off. He’s 34 not 38. Even if you give him a 2 year contract with an option for a 3rd year, he’ll only be 36 at the end of the guaranteed portion of the deal.
Here are his 2008 numbers so far with team ranking below.
G AB R H 2B 3B HR TB RBI BB K SB
152 595 94 178 39 4 19 282 95 69 103 20
2nd 1st 2nd 2nd 1st 2nd 2nd 1st 2nd
.299/.373/.474/.847
Its a no-brainer to me.
Doreen,
Yes.
Wave Your Hat,
The bean counters won’t like it, but the talking heads will.
The Yankees need to completely blow it up and bring in a 3rd party to evaluate everything. Too many miscalculations this year…. there has to be an underlying cause. Can’tjust chalk it up to a ‘bad year’. They need to ensure this doesn’t happen again next year.
The entire organization needs to look completely different next year. A full-scale house cleaning is in order. Don’t panic and make moves just for the sake of it, but bring in someone from the outside to be objective.
I also don’t think full-blown rebuilding is necessary.
This team isn’t that far off where it needs to be. They need some minor tweaking and to let some of the old blood go away (Giambi, Pettitte or Moose, Pudge, Pavano).
Signing 2 top FA starters isn’t the answer. You sign one, hopefully CC.
“Why would ESPN revel in the Yanks being out of the playoffs? They like lower ratings and less advertising revenue for some reason?”
It gives them a chance to trot out Hank’s treasure trove of stupid quotes, to mock the highest payroll, etc.
It is the same phenomenon as people rooting against Notre Dame when they were the dominant college football team or against the Patriots. Some people love it when the mighty have fallen.
If I’m the Yankees, CC is obviously a free agent pitcher you go hard after, but I have doubts about Burnett and his health. If the team fails to land CC, it might be more prudent to trade for a good pitcher instead of signing a risk.
Moose can win 300 if wants to as he needs 2 – 2+ yrs to reach it. I think he will. And when he does, he will probably be the last to do it. There is no one on the horizon!
IMO it’s a plateau that may never be reached again.
SJ, you didn’t mean full-blown, right?
The core is still there. The bullpen is solid. Posada & Matsui returning (hopefully) full-strength.
I think he means restructuring the whole system, adding top-drawer pitching, finally filling the hole at 1B and temporarily in CF.
I also think that SJ’s fine with Cano if he shows improvement on both sides of the ball, no?
does anyone want to make guesses what the lineup is gonna look like tonight?
joe said hes going to start playing the rookies but how many is the question
also they didnt make the rookies dress up this year, did they?
“If I’m the Yankees, CC is obviously a free agent pitcher you go hard after, but I have doubts about Burnett and his health. If the team fails to land CC, it might be more prudent to trade for a good pitcher instead of signing a risk.”
Couldn’t agree more. Sheets and Burnett can go let someone else pay them 18 million/year to sit in the trainer’s room. If they don’t get CC, I’d pursue Garland or another starter via trade.
There are too many reasons for the Yankees not blow up the team.
TK,
The problem with many Yankee fans is that they look at one young players one way.
Be great out of the gate or you suck. No in between.
You are either Derek Jeter or Joba Chamberlain. If you aren’t that, you aren’t anything.
You can’t develop players that way. Players all don’t develop at the pace fans want them to develop at. If there was an internet back when Bernie started, I GUARANTEE you, the people calling for Hughes to be traded would be BEGGING the Yankees to trade Bernie Williams. Perhaps that’s why, aside from Jeter, Pettitte and Wang, the Yankees haven’t developed consistent, homegrown players in close to 15 years.
Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. I bet if Brian Cashman did it all over again, he wouldn’t have handed 40% of his rotation to rookies. It helps when you know the results. That’s why its called, “hindsight”.
Doesn’t mean he would have done the Santana deal. I think he would have insulated himself better with a veteran, back of the rotation guy rather than give both Hughes and Kennedy rotation spots.
The key is, not repeating the same mistake again. Which, he isn’t.
That’s why Hughes is going to the AFL to get innings and there is no talk about him being in the rotation next year.
I think they are going to be VERY aggressive re: starting pitching on the free agent market. How that shakes out will determine how the rest of the remaking of this team goes.
There are going to be a LOT of changes. You are not only going to see a lot of new faces but, you will see a definite change in attitude with the team.
I think the players finally realized (too late to salvage this year) that Joe Girardi is not the Anti-Christ. His ranting and raving to them about not taking the early part of the season for granted, which fell on deaf ears to just about the entire team, turned out to be correct.
I think the players also saw there is a method to some of his madness.
In the end, they “got” him and I think that will help things next season.
The Yanks are in no position for “full-blown rebuilding”.
Other than Austin Jackson, who won’t be ready before 2010 at the earliest, there are no kids on the offensive side of the ball anywhere near the majors who can help.
Leaving aside Hughes and Kennedy, there aren’t any pitching prospects anywhere close either, other than some releivers. Guys like Aceves won’t cut it. Brackman is, for now, just a fantasy.
The Yanks proven ability to draft ballplayers and find young “diamonds in the rough” is subject to debate, to say the least.
If the Yanks sign a FA pitcher like CC, land Tex and resign Abreu for a year, trade some minor league relievers for some short term role playing help in CF, why can’t they compete?
Abreau can’t field a lick. Yanks need to get younger in the OF. Try to trade Damon or Matsui while they can too.
I try to sign CC, if so…
CC
Wang
Moose
Joba
Hughes
you gotta have faith,
Rookie hazing this year is brutal. The team’s making them dress up like Yankees. They’re so humiliated to be associated with such a failed organization.
I find it amusing that so many folks are saying “If only xxx had happened . . . ”. C’mon, let’s get real. We have only one dependable starter in Mussina. Aceves has pitched well, but he needs to show he’s for real. If the Yankees had somehow miraculously made the playoffs (which we’ve known for weeks wasn’t happening), a rotation of Mussina, Pettite, Aceves and Pavano wouldn’t win more than a game. Not to mention the mediocre offense.
SJ – I think this was a year that was needed to convince the Yankees that they need to change course and give them an excuse to sell it to the fans. This should have been done prior to the 2008 season.
I am curious as to why Hughes if planned properly cannot develop in the majors. Cashman himself said AAA is meaningless (mostly about winning in AAA, not about development). Many teams rushed pitchers because they absolutely have to. 3/4 of the teams cannot afford free agent pitchers so they go with their kids. Even the Yankees did not want to spend on free agent pitchers. At some point in a players career they will make the jump from AAA to the majors and experience growing pains getting used to the enw level etc. I think it is more a case by case basis of evaluating a players readiness to maximize the move and minimize transition pain. If they feel Hughes is fully developed at the AAA level then you have to assess at the major league level. If they feel he is not ready physically or mentally from a pitching standpoint leave him in Scranton.
I heard Francona up here in Boston being interviewed about Ellsbury – he said that when a player first comes up he gets a pass because opponents don’t have a book on them. Like Ellsbury, Hughes and Kennedy last year, they get by on surprise (like the way the Yankees suck against rookies). Then the league learns and adjusts. Then is it up to the players to adjust. Hughes and Kennedy last year, Aceves and Coke this year look fantastic. The league will adjust and then force the players to adjust back. Can Hughes, kennedy, Ellsbury, Aceves, Coke adjust back – that is what creates a career.
“I think the players finally realized (too late to salvage this year) that Joe Girardi is not the Anti-Christ.”
Now if only we can convince Pete!
On the team of the decade dbate, while the decade does technically begin with the 1 year (2001), for all intents and purposes n practical use it starts with the 0 year. The 1990’s were 1990-1999. The Yankees were team of the 90’s.
The Red Sox are clearly ahead in the team of the 2000’s race, but it’s not assured yet. If the Red Sox win it all this year or next, they take it.
However, if the Angels win it all next year, they take the lead imo. They’d have won the same World Series this decade as the Red Sox but with more divisional titles. The Sox have only won the AL East once, and that hurts them imo.
The Cardinals are still in th discussion too. They won one World Series and lost another. If they somehow win it all in 2009, they get consideration, since they’d have more World Series appearances than the Red Sox, assuming the Sox don’t get there this year.
The Yankees still have a chance too to be team of the decade, but only if they win the World Series next year and the Red Sox dont win it this year. Tha would give the team 2 World Championships in the 2000’s (2000 and 2009) and 2 other appearances (2001 and 2003) plus making the playoffs every year but one. That’s an impressive feet that tops Boston imo.
ZMan: No, it wouldn’t, but a rotation of Wang, Moose, Joba, ad Andy would have done just fine if they were healthy.
SJ,
In addition, the players know there will be consequences to not giving your all. That’s really all that Girardi asked this year is that players try their best.
mel,
don’t get too ahead of yourself now, a failed organization is a bit harsh dont you think?
we are the ny yankees, not the washington nationals lol
“Why would ESPN revel in the Yanks being out of the playoffs? They like lower ratings and less advertising revenue for some reason?”
There’s a pretty good possibility that the playoffs will consist of 2 Chicago teams, 2 LA teams, a Philly team, a Boston team, a New York team and a great story in the Rays. I doubt ratings/revenue will suffer much.
SJ44,
How do you think the Yankees will rebuild? I take it we let Abreu and Giambi leave and trade Damon, and go with Nady, Miranda (or Teixeira, if we can get him?), and Gardner/Melky?
Matsui and Posada are immovable. Jeter and ARod stay, obviously. Cano isn’t going anywhere – the Yankees can’t just give up and sell him at his lowest possible value when he previously looked like one of the best players in the league and is still so young.
Mussina surely comes back. Pettitte could come back on a pay cut. The Yankees will work hard to sign someone with experience to make sure we don’t repeat the Hughes/Kennedy mistake. Problem is, it’s hardly a sure thing that we get a Sabathia and not a Silva, that is, an expensive mediocrity.
The pen pretty much stays the same. It’s been one of the few pleasant surprises this season.
What opportunities for rebuilding am I missing?
Hughes has already dominated at AAA. It’s moronic to think more time there will help him. Instead of learning to “master” his pitches, he could just as easily fall into bad habits with easy success there.
I suspect Hughes will be in the starting rotation next year, despite any FO comments, which I don’t take at face value.
If the Yanks don’t think Hughes can start next year, they ought to trade him now.
The problem with many Yankee fans is that they look at one young players one way.
Be great out of the gate or you suck. No in between.
You are either Derek Jeter or Joba Chamberlain. If you aren’t that, you aren’t anything.
Truth…and unfortunately that has been the opinion of the front office from 02-07 and that is why the Yankees are on the outside looking in.
Mussina is the active A.L. leader in career wins. He is the greatest mound artist of the last 40 years.
SJ44 I have to disagree sorry man. I doubt there will be an overhaul. MANY changes? Probably not.
This team didn’t win 72 games this year. Its going to be close to 90 wins. They won the World Series winning 87 games in 2000.
I don’t get all the dramatics and the over-reactions. It was a down year, a BAD year. Lots went wrong. Like someone said before RISP isn’t an exact science. The same team could be great at RISP in 2009. To me, that’s the main reason they aren’t going to the playoffs.
How is signing CC AND Burnett going to propel them to a championship? Can either of those guys hit? Track down a fly ball? All those signings do is tie up close to 200 million for 5-7 years, which is exactly what they are trying to avoid. How can you do a “massive rebuilding” and sign huge FA contracts at the same time? Doesn’t make much sense to me. If you’re going to do an “overhaul” you do it with young guys. Not 8 figure contracts.
Fredo, TV ratings will always improve if the Yanks are in it.
“The Yanks are in no position for “full-blown rebuildingâ€.”
Huh?
RF, 1B are going to change and 3/5’s of the rotation is up in the air, not to mention possible bullpen changes, the catcher situation.
If you are reading rebuilding as only coming from in-house, then I get your point. But the team is going to be dramatically different next year and Girardi is going to be in a position to put his stamp on the team.
“but a rotation of Wang, Moose, Joba, ad Andy would have done just fine if they were healthy.”
Maybe, but it speaks to the state of the team that it had no viable alternatives for Wang in particular. People keep trying to put lipstick on a pig. This team needs to break from its “Here’s a big contract to thank you for the long ago past” approach. Tradition is fine, but a bright future is worth a lot more. To that end, say thanks to Pettitte, but send him on his way. Sentimentality has cost this team dearly during this decade—that, and Cashman’s complete inability to judge pitching.
If we don’t get CC… Hughes or Cano may be shopped for a starting pitcher.
Where else are we going to get pitching? What if Burnett re-sign with Toronto or the org. finds medical red flags? Signing Sheets, Perez, Garland etc. doesn’t do it.
The Yankees are not going into the new stadium with the same rotation they had this year. Not a chance.
Zman: It’s what I think the main issue this year was—the Yankees didn’t have a plan for failure.
I think next year they come in with a better back u plan, and that should at the least buy them some time to put something togethe if they have a situation similar to this year.
I see no possibility of trading for a good young CF, RF or 1B with the talent we currently have.
I would, of course, love to turn Kennedy and some surplus minor leaguers into one. But I don’t see it happening. If you do, please tell me, with specificity, who they are and how we get them.
The Yanks have a short window to compete, as Posada and Jeter aren’t getting any younger. We have no one in the entire organization who can replace them (dream on if you think Montero will come up as a catcher), and no one to trade for one.
Unfortunately, few ballplayers start out mediocre and blossom through careful development into stars. I wish that were true, but it’s not.
We need to sign some top free agents, CC, Tex and (I hate his defense too) Abreu, and dance with the girl we came with.
i understand that if we let bobby go we get damon in left and nady in right
but then you have the situation with cf, brett or the melkman?
personally i dont have that much a problem with bobby, he isnt death when it comes to risp, and hes a good runner, his only downside is his feilding skills but i don’t remember a game we lost because of it
but if we keep bobby then we get a crowded outfield, and as much as i like damon hes one of the last people i want to see in cf
coming this winter there are going to be soo many questions, and i cant wait for the answers
Why is everyone assuming that Abreu is gone…the guy is going to get 20 HR, 100 RBI…an .370 OBP, steal 20 bags….he does it every year.
Is there a RF on the market this winter that is as consistent as or better than Abreu…the Yankees will sign him to a 3-year deal…as they should IMHO
“Maybe, but it speaks to the state of the team that it had no viable alternatives for Wang in particular.”
How many teams can replace their #1 starter? The Yanks did that, in a way, with Joba, but we all know how that ended.
I think you will see at least a 30-40%% turnover on the roster.
Guys I believe are gone: Giambi, Betemit, Melky, Ponson, Pavano, Rasner, and Abreu.
Pitching: I know folks think I’m nuts but, I think the Yankees either sign CC AND Burnett or Burnett and Teixiera (that is, if the Angels don’t re-sign him). I think two free agents are coming here.
Pettitte, Moose and Abreu? Their futures are directly tied to money and contract years.
If Andy and Moose want to go year to year, I think the Yankees bring both back. If they don’t, one or none return.
Abreu? The Yankees aren’t going to sign him to a 3 year contract. Nor will they give him 2+ an option. They aren’t doing that for a 35 year old OF.
If Bobby wants 3 years, which his agent is looking for and which he will get on the open market, he is gone.
There is no way you sign him to a 3 year contract. If he wants to stay, he has to work within financial parameters. If not, the Yankees will be more than happy with the draft picks.
If he returns, you may see Nady at first base next year if they can’t sign Tex or swing a deal.
Its interesting in the sense that the Yankees have a myriad of options. Not the least of which is the new stadium.
Wait until players see the new clubhouse. Guys will be talking about it throughout the game. Its going to be the best in the game by a longshot.
I bet a free agent talks about the new stadium at his press conference. As much money as these guys have, they all love perks. They love amenities and the new stadium is full of player amenities.
Cano? I thought he was definitely gone prior to his benching. They were so ticked off at him for a variety of things, I didn’t think he would see next year in pinstripes.
I now think he will. I think his benching is their way of saying, “you are coming back with conditions”. Obviously, if they get overwhelmed by a deal, its a different story. However, that’s unlikely and I think he will be back.
I also think they will acquire a bench guy, like a Ryan Freel for example, to have in case Cano has another walkabout season. This year, they had nobody to replace him with, which is why went unpunishment WAY too long into the season for his multiple transgressions.
He missed more signs than the next two guys COMBINED did on the team this season. That drove them nuts as much as his seemingly indifferent style of play.
Hopefully, Robbie gets it. It has to bug the hell out of him that Dustin Pedroia is now the gold standard for second basemen in the AL. It should be Robbie and he knows it.
If that spurs him on to take it to the next level, this bad season will be the best thing to happen to his career.
If the November Staium sendoff is going to be in the format of a variety show with multiple speakers and performances, Rookie hazing this year should be saved until then. Dressing up the rookies for 55,000 at the Stadium in NY is more fun than dressing them up for 100 people in a Toronto airport at midnight.
Matsui is the odd man out in 2009…
The Yankees were shopping him around last year, he’s got a bad knee, is suddenly injury prone and with the crowded outfield the Yankees have now he’s expendable.
I know the Giants have been looking at what they could get for Matt Cain. Maybe Matsui + prospects to SF for Cain is a possibility this offseason.
We’re not going to see any big shakeups in the pen going into next season. There will be no Farnsworth-type signing. They don’t need one. They will pick up Marte’s option and do nothing else, except maybe promote someone new, like Melancon.
Our options at catcher are extremely limited. That’s why we gave Posada the 4-year deal. We had no choice because the market for catching is worse than the market for pitching. Depending on how things look with Posada, I wouldn’t be surprised if we re-sign Pudge (or offer him arbitration if his declining would net us draft picks) if it looks like the alternative would be Molina/Moeller.
Abreu is not that bad of an outfielder…yes there are balls he doesn’t get to….but he catches the ones he does get to and he still is pretty tough to run on.
Add to that his steady offense and reliability i.e. plays everyday….....and I think you have to try and keep him for the right price.
I think Abreu stays. The Yankees can’t afford to lose his bat.
Rebecca, I honestly believe that if I gave you $200 million to work with, you would do a better job than Cashman has done (assuming you viewed things dispassionately and objectively). It’s frankly disgusting that this team will still be saddled with huge contracts for years to come. I’m tired of watching the big name brontosauruses. We need a lot more hungry raptors.
“I see no possibility of trading for a good young CF, RF or 1B with the talent we currently have.”
Did you see the possibility of Karstens, Ohly, Tabata and someone whose name I forget bringing us Marte AND Nady?
I sure didn’t.
Deals are possible and happen for economic as well as competitive reasons. That is why there is going to be so much interest in watching the hot stove boil over this off-season
Pudge? Back? God no! He is so far over the hill he can’t see it any longer.
You can’t just let 50 HRs/200 RBIs in Giambi/Abreu walk and not have viable replacements, especially since we are already on pace to score 200 less runs than last year.
The offense needs just as much of a revamping as the pitching does.
Don’t be surprised if the Yankees exercise Pavano’s option (assuming he is not struck by lightning first). And if they do, I don’t want to hear complaints from anyone who criticized the lack of a “Plan B” for the rotation this season.
The Yankees will definitely put up big money for Teixeira, Sabathia, and Burnett. Whether they get any of them is another story. They will put up big money, but not stupid money. If the Angels will give Teixeira 10 years, $200 million, the Yankees won’t beat it.
Stay far away from Sheets.
Burnett will be our plan B. If we don’t get him, then I agree with the other poster that we may have to shop guys like Hughes or Cano for pitching.
A 35-year old OF who shows no signs of decline and who is a Yankee type player…high OBP, left-handed w/ speed.
There is not a free-agent like that on the market.
Also, given a choice between Matsui (also 35, slow with a bad knee) or Abreu, I’d rather have Abreu.
2+ an option is what the Yankees will want. He’ll want 4 guranteed and the compromise will be 3 guaranteed.
I would bring back Pudge and play him at 1st base.
I’ll break it down by position:
First base. If Abreu re-signs, I think Nady is the first baseman. If Abreu isn’t re-signed (more likely), its either Tex or someone they get in a trade.
Cano, Jeter and Arod will be back.
LF: I am not sure Damon will be back next year. He has a limited no trade and his contract isn’t that bad for another team to acquire. I think the Yankees shop him and see what’s out there for him. If nothing floats their boat, he’s back for one more year.
CF: I don’t see Gardner or Melky starting the year in CF. I think they will go outside the organization to acquire a CF.
RF: Its either Nady or Abreu. I think it will be Nady.
C: Posada and Molina.
Bench: I think they will pick up at least two, possibly three bench pieces. I also think Cody Ransom is going to have a chance to make the team in a utility role. He can play 5 positions and his bat isn’t too bad. He’s a helluva lot better than Betemit.
The pitching staff is really the area that we will see the turnover. Wang, Joba and Mo are the only 3 guys we know will be back. The rest? All depends how free agency shakes out. I think Mark Melancon will be in the bullpen next year. I also think they will either pickup Marte’s option or have a wink wink deal with him and sign him to a 2 year deal if they don’t pick up his option.
DH: I think it will be Matsui. I don’t believe they will trade him and his knees pretty much limit him to DH these days.
Aside from that, its open season.
In review, you are looking at a new first baseman, CF, possibly LF next year. That’s a third of the everyday lineup.
Pitching will have one, possibly two new starters and at least one (Melancon) bullpen arm. That’s a lot of turnover for one team.
Yeah, let’s give Abreu 3 years. In fact, let’s just attempt to field the oldest team in the history of baseball. At some point you need to commit to a different approach. This one hasn’t worked.
I’d be surprised if anyone gives Teixeira the 10 years he wants. He’ll save face by taking lots of money and call it a lifestyle decision. Whether that be west coast or east coast remains to be seen.
I’m all for CC and Tex, just not at any cost. I’d rather suffer another disappointing year than be saddled with a 7 yr contract for a pitcher and a 10 year contract for a 1B (albeit a switch hitter with a great glove and bat.)
Yea Mike! If he wants to come back, I say, bring him back for 3 years to try for 300. I like that he didn’t take himself out of the game last night after being hit. That had to hurt, alot. Gutsy.
SJ44, makes sense to me. Shopping for a CF scares me though. Look at the big money spent on Gary Matthews, Andruw Jones, and Torii Hunter (only one of whom even remotely deserved it). Too bad we missed the boat on Beltran.
ZMan: No way in hell.
Cashman has had to deal with the Steinnies. We….don’t.
It’s easy to be an armchair GM when you don’t have your job on the line with every move.
Deals happen every off-season. Just because you don’t see/hear of anything now doesn’t mean stuff doesn’t happen.
Believe me, if the Yankees want to find a CF or a first baseman, there will be players available.
As in all deals, its a matter of price.
It’s not about signing the oldest team…it’s about evaluating what the current situation is, then evaluating what the alternative are and then making a decision based on what is better.
What is the better option in the free agent market?
Bruney has a 1.87 ERA and has been lights out. He’s throwing strikes and is dominant.
“It’s easy to be an armchair GM when you don’t have your job on the line with every move.”
Rebecca—I’d argue that their jobs are not on the line with every move. If this were the case, there’s no way Cashman would have lasted this long.
Hell no to picking up Pavano’s option. Who cares if he can pitch, it’s best to move on. And the guys can forgive, but they won’t forget. They were brutal to him after the car accident.
SJ’s right. Other teams have needs, too. Think other teams don’t need relievers? Young pitching? 5th outfielders?
I think the Yanks will make a very high one-year offer to Abreu. Abreu is said to be looking for a multi-year deal, but a one-year deal, if significantly higher than the per year average on a multi-year contract, could prove attractive to him.
The Yanks will make the offer because they know Nady and some complimentary platoon player won’t make up for the loss of Abreu’s offense. Given how our offense performed this year, they know they can’t afford to lose more production.
The Yanks will also make a huge offer to Tex. My guess is Tex is a high-bidder kind of guy, like most people. The Yanks know they must replace Giambi’s production, and Tex is the only answer. A Nady platoon isn’t the answer there either.
If I’m right on Abreu and Tex, that means the Yanks will only sign one top FA starting pitcher. Their $80 million will only go so far, and they will need to spend some money to add a role-playing CF to bridge the gap to Austin Jackson.
Jonathan—it’s not just about filling holes. At some point, if a strategy isn’t working, you need to modify it. This team risks being stuck with the Golden Girls in Pinstripes. And these ladies cost a lot more than Bea Arthur and Rue McClanahan.
Jonathon, the real point is that you don’t just look at the FA market to fill all the needs. You put together trades, sign FA, promote from within, in order to get the pieces you need.
For trades you target players for your needs and see what that club wants/ needs for themselves.
In the off season its much easier to make deals to fill needs. This will be – or at least – should be a big off season for the Yankees.
Running the Yankees today is a helluva lot different than running the Yankees from 2001-2005. Like night and day.
One of the reasons they are in the position they are in is because of the emotional, out of control way George went about the business from 2001-2005.
Lots of missed draft choices. Lots of missed chances to sign the right players (Vlad instead of Sheffield, Beltran instead of Randy Johnson, the infamous Tony Womack acquisition, etc).
Its an old team for a reason. Too many long term contracts to older players.
That’s why Abreu has virtually no shot at returning if he is stuck on 3 years. They aren’t going down that road again.
Its about using money intelligently and having roster flexibility. Without it, you are locked into guys and, if they are the wrong guys, you are sunk.
If Cashman is back, I would shocked if they went down that road again.
“Hughes has already dominated at AAA. It’s moronic to think more time there will help him”
how many times did i hear this argument in the spring?
so because bucholtz pitched a no hitter he has nothing to learn at triple a.
lester had nothing to learn by a lengthy return to triple a?
hughes needs to start a triple a and through merit rise through the organization.
A lot will depend on Sabathia, that will dictate what happens with everything else. That will set the dominoes into motion.
SJ: What about signing Bobby as a DH? I can see them doing that.
SJ,
What do you think about the Cashman quote about being open to bringing back Jason.
Please tell me that’s just posturing. No one in their right mind would bring him back.
i think this offseason bobby should be towards the end of the lets see what we can get list
how come no ones talking about trading nady? hes good but nothing really that special, im not saying hes top priority because the yanks have bigger fish to fry
but why not shop him around? see who’ll bite? see what we can get back?
th yanks can do so many things this offseason, hopefully their choices won’t come back to bite them in the butt like this year
“There is not a free-agent like that on the market.”
Maybe not but there is one already on the team. Nady’s offensive numbers this year were just as good as Abreu’s. He’s 5 years younger, doesn’t require a 3 year contract and his defense is on par with Bobby’s.
“You can’t just let 50 HRs/200 RBIs in Giambi/Abreu walk and not have viable replacements, especially since we are already on pace to score 200 less runs than last year.”
I would assume that Jorge and Matsui would contribute more in 2009 than they did this year and make up a chunk of those lost numbers.
randy, i agree 100%
i would hope cashman is smarter than the arm chair GMs on this board who want to guarentee hughes a rotation spot next year
randy 1 –
Hughes has done everything he could do at at AAA. That’s why its moronic. If the Yanks think he still needs more “seasoning” then they should trade him, because there will be other teams that think he is ready now.
IMO, if they sign Tex, they aren’t signing Abreu. They will put Nady in RF, save about 8-9 million dollars, and slot Tex in the third hole ahead of Arod.
This would be the projected lineup:
1. Damon LF
2. Jeter SS
3. Tex 1B
4. Arod 3B
5. Matsui DH
6. Nady RF
7. Posada C
8. Cano 2B
9. Whomever ends up in CF.
Basically, they would take Giambi’s (21 million) and Abreu’s (14 million) money and slot it to Nady (avoiding arbitration) and Tex, with a healthy chunk left over.
If anything, Cashman has said Hughes won’t be guaranteed anything.
And you’ve got Hughes, IPK, Aceves, and possibly Coke as the lefty competing for one spot. Aceves would probably win the job based on the intangibles and IP (don’t know if there’s an issue, but if he’s been pitching professionally for this long it’s probably not.)
Jorge will hit closer to his .277 career average instead of the .338 player he was in his contract year. And remember, he is 39 years old coming off shoulder surgery, so I’d imagine that would impact his offense as well.
Matsui hasn’t been healthy in 3 years. Very hard to rely upon him.
There needs to be tangible replacements for Abreu/Giambi. It can’t be Brett Gardner and Miranda. If not Texieria, they need to go the trade route and find some young position players.
Although the analogy to classic 80s sitcoms is hysterical…Abreu is signable (regardless of his age) because of his production and because he hasn’t shown signs of decline.
He is the best free-agent outfield option on the market and he should be back.
The Yankees need to sign a big bat to replace the production of Giambi at 1B. Teixeira would is the best option. I have to admit having a switch hitting, high OBP, 30 HR guy hitting behind A. Rod makes my mouth water. I would love to see the Yankees get him.
After that, I think the position players look like this next year
C – Posada (hopefully the shoulder will be better)
1B – Teixeira
2B – Cano
3B – A. Rod
SS – Jeter
LF – Damon/Nady
CF – Gardner
RF – Abreu
DH – Damon/Nady
I just think the Yankee need to unload Matsui while he still has value…players with knee problems don’t usually get better with age.
No, Hughes hasn’t done everything he can do in AAA.
Has he ever pitched 150-160 AAA innings? Has he ever gone a full season taking every turn in the rotation against better hitters than are present in A Ball?
Has he mastered the ability to throw 3 pitches for strikes in any count? Nope.
Can he spot in fastball up/down, in/out in any count? Nope. In fact, Hughes himself says his fastball command has to be much better.
Don’t look at stats. Look at how he is developing and he needs more work.
The Yankees don’t need 4-5 inning starting pitchers. That’s their problem.
He shouldn’t be back here until he is ready to throw more consistent innings. He’s not there yet.
Mel,
Its all posturing. I don’t see where Giambi fits in the Yankees plans next year. That ship has sailed.
Rebecca,
Matsui will be the DH. Depending on Jorge’s shoulder, he may also see DH time. I don’t see them making an 8 figure, multi-year investment to Bobby to DH.
I think a lot of dominoes have to fall the wrong way for them to bring Bobby back because I don’t see Bobby taking less money to stay in NY. This go’round is his last chance to make big money.
SJ44-
I guess it depends on where the Yanks want their payroll to end up. I personally don’t think your proposed lineup will give them enough firepower to beat out the Rays and the Sox, who will be very good next year. Both have a younger team and super farm prospects.
The Yanks could spend the $$ on 2 starting FA pitchers, but my thought there is that the top three, Sabathia, Sheets and Burnett, each have questions attached to them. Sabathia has been worked hard, and Sheets and Burnett have durability issues. Signing any of them is a gamble, and signing two of them would be a big gamble, especially since that will cost $40 million plus per year.
If they could sign Abreu to a big one-year deal, then in 2010 the OF decks will be clear (no Damon, Matsui, Abreu or Nady) and they will have a lot of flexibility.
everyone is talking about getting younger blah blah blah
yet they put matsui on their lineup list
HELLO! matsui is no spring chicken, and his body is starting to react to all those 1000+ consecutive games he played
i wouldnt mind having bobby as a dh/ extra outfielder and dropping matsui
wave your hat-
i’d be careful throwing around that word “moronic” . people might start associating it with you.
I’m beginning to come around to the Tex thing, too. We have many more pitching options than we do for 1B/offense.
O/T but Lance Armstrong will be riding in the tour again. He’ll ride for free the first year, participate in the voluntary testing program.
Contadora had sounded put out the other day, but has changed his tune now that the deal is done.
Good luck to Team Astana.
SJ: I keep forgetting about Matsui.
I have to say, though, the one thing I don’t see is I don’t see Nady playing first base. I think he’s got more value to the team playing in the field.
SJ44, I’ll agree to disagree on Hughes. My guess is no pitcher has ever mastered all those things because he spent another year in the minors. You’re projecting a cure for his problems which doesn’t exist. Hughes could just as easily learn a lot of bad habits there getting lesser hitters out.
good lord. thinking about all this stuff makes my head hurt…
the yankees have invested a small fortune in arod until he’s 42.
who is going to hit in front of him and behind him?
he really needs someone behind him that other teams fear. manny would work , but that’s not going to happen. there’s really no one on the team that strikes fear in other teams.
part of his bad year this year was having mediocre hitters behind him.
randy-
I didn’t say you were moronic, I said the argument was.
The team just has one goal is to get 2009 championship.
We need sharp rotation,bullpen and line up.Fouthermore,we need the player who glory in pinstriped and work hard.
The team also need to do its best to win in every game,not wait until the season will be end and then chase after playoff spot.It’s too late.
Tell the truth,the GM and coach group of Red sox is more smart,excellent and boldness than Yankee.
Sometimes Giradi’s useless kindness hurt the team.
“Meanwhile, Matt Garza started for the Rays on three days’ rest, and had it not been for Red Sox slugger David Ortiz, he might have lasted long enough to qualify for the win. But by the time Ortiz came to the plate in the fifth with two on and two out, he already had a two-run homer and a solo blast, so Maddon went to the bullpen and Grant Balfour.” “It was a great move [bringing in Balfour],” Garza said. “At the point it happened, I didn’t like [the move]. As a player, though, you know what’s best for the team.”
Maddon is great and he really know what’s best for Rays.
Wave your hat,
I think the organization is trying to undo the damage done by rushing Hughes.
He’s a tremendous kid with good stuff. To me his intangibles only enhance his stock. You can’t teach that kind of stuff.
That’s why they didn’t trade him and that’s why they’re trying to rectify it.
The problem is everyone is impatient. The media, the fans, and Phil himself.
I think it’ll be worth the wait.