And that’s that
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Podcast on Sep 24, 2008 
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This day was coming, only the blindly optimistic thought otherwise. The Yankees were toast in August when failed to build on the success they had in late July. Once Joba Chamberlain got hurt, that was it.
But the final blow came tonight. A few minutes before Mariano Rivera got the final out, the Red Sox finished off their victory against Cleveland. The Yankees are six out with five to play.
“It’s really devastating. It makes you sick to your stomach,†Alex Rodriguez said. “That’s an experience we don’t want to have again.â€
Derek Jeter appeared stunned. Not so much that the Yankees were eliminated, more at the idea of having to play five more games with nothing to play for. He has literally never been in this position before. In 1993, when last the Yankees failed to make the postseason, Jeter was a shortstop for the Class A Greensboro Hornets.
The only drama left this season will be whether Mike Mussina can win 20 games. The Moose’s elbow looked like it had been dragged over gravel when he showed it to us. It was red and missing chunks of skin and appeared swollen. He came out because it started to get stiff.
“We’ll have to see how it feels,” he said about Sunday’s start against Boston. “I’m certainly going to prepare the same way.”
You have to give Mussina credit. That line drive hit him square and he got eight more outs.
“A gutty performance,” Joe Girardi said.
Speaking of the manager, this season will be part of his legacy and he took full responsibility. Here is what he said after the game:
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The Yankees will probably end up with 89 wins or so. But it wasn’t good enough. At 86-71, they’re 15 games over .500 for the first time. Their best baseball came too late to make a difference.
Ouch!
So am I like the only one not running towards a ledge right now?
Being a Jets and a Nets fan is good for something–it gets you used to failure
Thanks for the Moose update. Regardless of what happens he is now past Jim Palmer in wins.
Well, if nothing else, now I don’t have to listen to people tell me that its okay for the Yankees to play awfully in the beginning of the year because they have plenty of time ti come back.
Yanks should ask Pavano what they should do with their free time after Sunday – he must have a million ideas.
Wellllllllll!!!!!
GO YANKEES 2009!!!!
this is what happens when you stick with ponson and rasner for too long
“this is what happens when you stick with ponson and rasner for too long”
Exactly why I hope Cashman walks and Hank goes insane with spending this offseason.
“this is what happens when you stick with ponson and rasner for too long”
Or start your season with Hughes and Kennedy…
It’s not going to be fun to watch other teams play. As a Yankee fan, I consider the playoffs to be sort of a birthright.
I remember in 1995 when they first got in, it was if I won some kind of lottery. But it hasn’t been fun in the post-2004 world. Three years in a row of hideous first round eliminations. And if we somehow squeaked in, I imagine the same fate in the first round. I hate that so much.
Once we find out what happens with Moose, that parlor game among Pete and the rest of the press corps along with the fans of what this team will look like next year will begin. And it will be interesting.
Arod as clueless as ever.. Man can a guy make $300 mill and be any smaller…
He is the leader of the pretty by softies.. He needs to see a shrink and get a backbone. He is the softest star I have ever seen, the guy got about 3 big hits all year, he had alot of company in that crew the the roid boy and others..
this team needs no help in the pen they need 2 starters( or CC) and 3 new position players..
adios abreu, giambi, to bad(Afraud can’t go), and others…..
O’neil and others who played the game the right way and hard must be shaking there head at this team of multi multi millionaire woosies…
I still believe this season’s biggest culprit was the underachieving offense and failure to hit with RISP.
Well, obviously a disappointing season all around, but I’m not overly emotional about it now. I’ve been reconciled to this moment for a month or so. If they are smart, the Yankees who will still be here will be extremely angry and determined to prove themselves all over again, like the 1998 Yankees did after the depressing 1997 defeat to the Indians. Now these guys know what it’s like for players on 99% of the other teams in baseball……to lose and go home. It sucks. I think it was Buck Showalter who said that the pain and anger you feel in losing is far greater than the you experience in winning. Now this team knows what it feels like to get punched in the stomach. The question is, how do they respond? They don’t have to be the 1998 Yankees (no team could be), but they really need to form their own identity as a team. Maybe this will be the catalyst they need to do so.
As to tonight, Moose has just been incredible. I am so happy for him. What an incredible performance. The man takes knocks in the media for his unusual personality, but I think he’s terrific. He’s smart and sardonic and very funny. He’s also one heck of a pitcher and he deserves ALL the credit in the world for reinventing himself. I have a lot of affection for Moose and a ton of respect.
clowns hank is not the boss just a blowhard..
Hal is the boss, he is much smarter then his brother.. yeah rasner and ponson are responsible for this joke offense… minimum 150 runs less then last year…
for the brain surgeons in the crowd about 1 run less a game scored then last year, BTW there pitching has actually been better then last year, that just tells you how bad this offense was…
“this is what happens when you stick with ponson and rasner for too longâ€Or start your season with Hughes and Kennedy…
Or think you can let Torre go and anybody can manage this team.
“Or think you can let Torre go and anybody can manage this team.”
Would Jeter have grounded into less double plays if Torre were here to comfort him?
““this is what happens when you stick with ponson and rasner for too longâ€
Or start your season with Hughes and Kennedy…”
Or bring in a manager who’s learning on the job…
It’s baseball, not babysitting.
As i have said all year.. every great empire comes to an end, yet some empires collapse and other regain their strenght.. it is now up to the hierarchy to make sure this empire does not collapse and regains full strength and domination..
Maybe this season was a blessing in the sky, showed that you cant have enough pitching..
Is this the start of a rebuilding plan???
We will have to wait and see. All i can say is lets go cubbies, screw the sox, hope the mets do get in the playoffs, and hope for the best in the offseason were we make significant upgrades
“minimum 150 runs less then last year…”
Roughly about what Jorge and Matsui would have contributed this year had they been healthy.
There will be a barrage of what went wrong articles tomorrow. The writers have done a collective fist pump, “Yes! We can submit those articles we wrote 2 months ago.”
mel
ESPN has already started. Gammons says the Yankees didn’t make the postseason because they didn’t follow a plan and the Sox will because they did. It’s an Insider article and I’m not one so I couldn’t read the whole thing but I wonder if he mentions the Sox missing the 2006 postseason as part of their plan.
“27 in ’08″ R.I.P.
I will send a Moose Bar to the first person who can explain why the Yankees aren’t going to the playoffs this year.
And now that the “Yankees Officially Eliminated From Postseason” aftermath in the media has begun…
I posted this on River Ave. Blues about ESPN.com’s Buster Olney’s columns tonight, which talk about the reasons for us missing the playoffs and Cashman’a upcoming decision. I don’t have the time to re-write my whole point, so i’ll just copy and paste (i’ve edited some of the half-vulgar words of course… Hey, Pete’s tryin to maintain a “Family Blog” atmosphere here, ok?…)
“Oh, come on guys. I get it that some or even most ESPN sh*tloaders come off as Yankee-Haters/Sux-Lovers, but Olney’s column couldn’t be more spot on, especially for the majority of us here on this blog who aren’t hatin on Cash for stressing patience and putting an emphasis on player development, aka “The Youth Movement.”
All Olney is pointing out is that the reason we’re missing the post-season this year is because of the years of draft neglect and signing lots of top-tier FA’s which resulted in the loss of high-round draft picks, effectively leaving us with an empty farm system.
I’m sorry, I hate the Sux and Rays as much as any Yankee fan out there, but I do respect and envy the success they’ve had with the players theyve drafted and called up over the last couple of years, i.e. Youkilis, Pedroia, Lester, Shields, Longoria etc.
I don’t sense glee and hate in Olney’s column at all. Granted, the Yanks missin the playoffs for the first time in fifteen years is gonna have some wri-tards excited as it’s a juicy issue.
Olney actually mentions a point i’ve been thinking alot about lately, and even has a separate column about it. Namely, the impending re-signing/departure of Brian Cashman. Olney correctly points out that since ’05 Cash has overall done a pretty good job of drafting and restocking the farm to the point where it’s on its way of becoming a real player-development-powerhouse, (granted we’re way short on position-player prospects but hey, at least the man’s tryin…) so if he leaves in middle of his project, it potetially represents a big-a** problem because the guy who’ll replace him might succum to the “win-now” pressure and sign every big name in the damn book which will mean we’ll have lost another year of high-round picks. So you may as well let Cash finish what he started.
Hey, since ’01 we’ve gone the “big-name-FA/losing-draft-picks/All-Star-at-every-position” route. And where exactly has it gotten our asses? Into $200-million-dollar-sht*loadin-failure oblivion. That’s where.
Let’s face it. Isn’t that the reason those of us that were happy that Cash didn’t trade for Johan, because we realized that at some point we’ve got to stop tradin prospects, give up draft picks (and in the words of Martin Lawrence in Bad Boys) “AND ON TOP OF ALL THAT SH*T” give a pitcher a 7-year, $150 million dollar deal???
I understand that some of you will try to spin Olney’s column into Yankee Hate, especially those who still had their hopes of us makin the playoffs until two hours ago, but i’m sorry, Olney is right.
He also makes another good point; In a way, after years of draft neglect, it’s not the end of the world to miss the post-season one year so you can get good draft position and restock for another multi-year title hunt. Of course, all this goes out the window if we go out and sign CC, Tex, Manny, Sheets, Burnett, and every other veteran.
I know the youth movement hasn’t gotten off to a good start at all this season with the injuries and underachievment of Phranchise and IPK. But the bottom line is this:
Whether you agree with Cashman’s philosophy or not, the man deserves a chance to at least see through the plan and inevitable result that he envisions for the franchise he’s worked – and had a hand in delivering a couple of titles – for his whole life. Hopefully he comes back and enjoys great successs. And hey, if his plan doesn’t work out, you can always replace him then. But not wanting him back smack in the middle of his project, which we already have reaped some very sweet fruits of by the way, (see: Mania, Joba) makes no sense. Brian Cashman, please come back.
I don’t have the patience or time to post here very often but when I do, I try to make and support my point very clearly. That’s why I write these long posts. Because I would like to believe that the people who read and post on this blog, love the Yankees, and for the most part at least, are sane Yankee fans, aren’t spoiled, and don’t overreact when not all the chips fall our way.
I’m out.
pat,
lol. Gammons is so predictable. It’s always about the Red Sox. He must’ve been sick of all the attention the Yankees had the last week. I don’t understand how a journalist of his stature would agree to be the president of the Red Sox Nation.
It is what it is..
This Yankee team was just not good enough to get into the playoffs, whether it was injury or lack of clutch hits,RISP..this team wasn’t good enough this year!
So you missed the postseason?
Big deal. You pick up ad move on. 29 other MLB teams don’t care that you got an extra month of golfing in October.
Start planning for 2009.
Don’t just plan, but plan for your plan to completley backfire and plan for your back up plan to fail and the back up plan to the back up plan to not go according to plan.
Yeah, it sucks. I won’t lie.
But the funny thing about baseball is that they play it every year, and in a few months, we get to start with a fresh slate all over again.
(I figure now’s as good a time as any to actually act like Optimist Prime)
Nick in SF,
That would be Olney. And I’m sure he’d appreciate it. Anyone have any cow pies to send?
“I will send a Moose Bar to the first person who can explain why the Yankees aren’t going to the playoffs this year.”
Unfulfilled expectations. They expected the kid pitchers to be better than they were, they expected players who were never on the DL before to not be on it this year and they expected the offense to mask all the holes that existed in all other areas of the team.
mel has a point. Lupica comes out with pretty much the same article every year. Since 2000, the team has spent $700 billion on players but has gotten nothing.
The only thing that was better about this team than Torre’s teams was that the bullpen was much deeper. You didn’t have a Paul Quantrill or a Scott Proctor pitching until their arms fell off.
Historically, teams that rely on really young starting pitching are .500 teams at best. And this was known before this season started. The real surprise was the hitting. If we knew in March that Robbbie Cano was going to hit only .265, Jorge would be out for most of the season, Jeter playing with a bad hand for most of the year along with Matsui and A-Rod taking DL time, we knew we would be in for a long season.
On average we scored 1 plus run a game less than we did last year. That makes a big difference across 162 games.
Nick:
It wasn’t just the amount of injuries, but it was who the injuries were to and the length of time they wee out.
When you think about it the Yankees lost all-star caliber players at pitcher, catcher, left field and even third base for large portions of the season.
Add to that the off years of Cano and Jeter, the ineffectiveness of Pettitte, the regression of Cabrera and the lack of planning for the failures of Phil and IPK.
Now, glaze that all over with a ridiculously slow reaction time to probolems that the Yankees could address, like waiting forever before replacing Rasner with Aceves, and ALWAYS hitting Giambi fifth even when he’s an automatic out with RISP and waiting till September to bench Cano.
Can I get my moose bar now?
I actually meant the first person on this blog, so Buster will have to get his own.
Nick, man, come on, you know I have the most thorough explanation.
Don’t let me down.
I’ll take anybody but the Red Sox to win the World Series. I really hate that team. Papelbon is so classless that he’s moronic. Youkilis’ little dance at home plate. Curt Schilling in front of a microphone. Along with a “Nation” of fans who are just riding the bandwagon. It would be great to see the bandwagon hit the wall this year.
Two things in response to some of the above comments:
First, Moose passing Palmer makes me happy. That guy is just annoying.
Second, I’m so sick of Gammons and his red-colored glasses. He can’t comment on ANYTHING without mentioning the Red Sox and how they do things the “right” way. Enough already! We get it. Epstein is the best GM, Fenway is the best park, and every Red Sox prospect is a future first ballot hall of famer. I’ve never seen anyone with such a one track mind. He reminds me of a twelve year old fan who just thinks his team is the best at everything. How this guy got into the hall of fame bewilders me. Someone should remind him that the Yankees have won quite a few more championships over the years.
Nick,
Because Kennedy just wanted to make you look stupid.
That’s why.
Art, you live in Sacramento, right? I just passed through last night on the way down to the city from Tahoe. Ah, last night, when the Sox were losing and we still had hope.
(sorry, no correct answer yet, the competition will be closed shortly, lest someone get the answer)
RSM,
Don’t forget the best setup guy two years in a row. A different one. He meant to say the other one. Speaking of…Where are Delcarmen and Hansen?
SI.com’s John Heyman’s got the latest news on Cashman:
Steinbrenners Want Answer From GM Cashman by next week
Brian Cashman was asked by the Steinbrenners to respond by next week to their offer to return as Yankees general manager, according to people familiar with the situation.
Cashman’s current three-year, $5.5 million contract doesn’t expire until Oct. 31, but the Yankees’ owners don’t want the issue to linger, not with a roster overhaul in the offing. The Steinbrenners prefer Cashman to commit to them before they present him with a new contract for a significant raise.
Most baseball people believe that for a variety of reasons, including an excellent working relationship with Hank Steinbrenner’s younger, quieter brother Hal, Cashman will choose to return to the job he’s held for 11 years. Cashman is expected to give both Steinbrenners his answer as early as next Monday or Tuesday. Negotiations on his new deal would begin the moment Cashman provides the go-ahead and are not expected to take long.
There has been speculation for months that Cashman could be intrigued by any one of a number of potential GM openings, including one in Seattle, another in Philadelphia (Pat Gillick has said he’s retiring), and possibly a third in Washington (although Jim Bowden is still hanging in there). And if Cashman chooes not to remain with the Yankees, a few more opportunities could be opened up for him. Yet people close to the team still expect Cashman to stay.
Yankees people are anxious to commence what’s likely to be an extreme makeover after missing the playoffs for the first time since long before Cashman became GM (only one Yankee defeat or Red Sox victory will ensure a quite October for the Yankees). So they want an answer by sometime next week, the first week of a postseason that will not involve them.
Cashman, who won three World Series rings and made the playoffs his first 10 years as Yankees GM, had a rocky 11th season as Yankees GM, enduring a lot of public posturing and criticizing by Hank Steinbrenner as the team, including most veteran stars and heralded younger players, badly underperformed expectations. Hank last winter overruled Cashman’s recommendations not to go beyond eight years for Alex Rodriguez or three years for Jorge Posada and has second-guessed the ultimate call not to surrender pitching prospects Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy and outfielder Melky Cabrera for star pitcher Johan Santana.
However, people around the team suggest they believe Cashman, who always had a tough Steinbrenner to work for, will instead recall the positives of working with the Yankees, which include the player payroll and prestige. The Yankees’ move to the new Yankee Stadium might also be a lure.
Hal Steinbrenner recently told Newsday, “He knows that we’re with him, that we want him back.†SI.com reported last winter that the Yankees made a play to try to extend Cashman’s contract and again on Aug. 13 that the Yankees still wanted him back, despite the difficulties of the 2008 season.
(but E-Man could be very close! Good answer!)
Would Jeter have grounded into less double plays if Torre were here to comfort him?
So you think the reason they didn’t make the playofs is because Jeter hit into more double plays? The reason they did not make it is the whole lineup did non hit in clutch situations and the starting pitching outside of Mussina and Joba weren’t that good and if Torre got blamed the last couple of years for not reaching the world serius then Girardi should get the same amount of grief for not making the post season.
Sacramento in the house, Nick. I had hope last night too. Not much but a little.
I started watching the Yanks in ’95 which I was 10 and in the 5th grade. watching the Yanks being eliminated tonight, it hurts, it felt like a stab to the heart. i so wanted to cry.
Nick: All right, why did the Yankees miss the playoffs?
Zee,
I think the point they were trying to make is that the players still play the games. Jeter was just one example. And he just happened to be the closest to Torre.
Art, at least you live in the town of a championship team. One of these years I want to catch a game at Raley Stadium (if that is indeed its name), I’ve heard those games are lots of fun.
“Buster Olney is an idiot”
With all due respect Betsy, that’s hardly the point. His point is that the Yankees have lost draft picks over the past 8 years by signing high priced free agents. The point is a valid point, whether you personally like Olney or not. Have the free agent signings brought us World Championships, no. Have the free agent signings brought us pennants? Other than 2003, no. Have we gotten better through all these free agent signings? No, we have progressively gotten worse. The Yankees need to get younger, more aggressive, and hungrier. That comes from player development in your farm system. It will take patience, and it will take time, but the dividends are better than the alternative.
I sincerely hope Hank and Hal don’t listen to impatient and immature Yankee fans and listen to real baseball people. Because if they are stupid enough to listen to these “fans,†who think the only solution to the Yankees failure this year is more money on more free agents, we will be choking on Red Sox and Devil Ray exhaust for a long long time.
Sorry, Rebecca, but your answer (and pat’s and Buster’s and even E-Man’s) are subjective in nature and the answer I was looking for was one which would identify the objective criteria for qualifiying for postseason play. Simply put, the Yankees didn’t win enough games relative to the other teams in their division and in their league. That’s the reason they’re missing the playoffs.
Don’t worry, I’ll make sure that the Moose Bar finds a good home.
Nick, minor league baseball is a real treat. The Sacramento Rivercats have been in town since 2000 and their alumni list already includes Barry Zito, Bobby Crosby, Nick Swisher, Eric Byrnes, and Houston Street. They once had Bob Geren as their manager and Roy White on the coaching staff. The Rivercats are fun to watch. Stockton has the A’s Single-A team, the Ports, and that’s worth the drive to Stockton too.
It seems that all of Sacramento’s teams- the Rivercats, the WNBA Monarchs, and the one year that they had a Canadian Football Team- won their league’s championships except for the Kings. I’m a casual Sacramento Kings fan.
Blame also lands on Girardi’s lack of experience. Remember the months of playing with the rotation, sitting hot hitters, sticking with Melky and Cano instead of benching them. Having too slow a hook on pitchers who had nothing.
Cashman also gets some blame. Honestly, Ensburg, Betemit, Sexson, Moeller, Gardner, as your bench and then as starters for far too many games. At the trade deadline the need for a SP better than Ponson and Rasner and Kennedy.
Cashman didn’t really have any backup plan for if the young arms failed, which they did. Rasner wasn’t an answer so much as a guy who could be plugged in short term.
40% of the ABs this year from terrible hitters isn’t going to produce a lot of runs.
Injuries just really worked to point out the lack of depth this year. Yes, they hurt the team, but the real reason they hurt so much was that the Yankees didn’t have even league average players to cover for them.
Molina you can cover because his defense is good. Gonzales in Jeter’s spot or A-Rod’s spot wasn’t going to be covered. Betemit was a butcher on the field and not very good at the plate, even with the few dingers he gave. Gardner is fast and good with a glove, but he was hitting worse than Melky. On a team having trouble with offense that is a big problem.
Giambi at first is a killer. Sorry Big G, but your constant pull hitting meant tons of outs.
A-Rod had a down year from last year, but still he had over 100 RBIs. Jeter a down year. Cano a disasterous year. Matsui being out. (Why he didn’t get both knees done last year is beyond me when he had trouble with both knees last season).
It looked like a perfect storm against the Yankees, but really it revealed the over all problem that they have had for a while. Aging players and lack of depth, and even more important, lack of pitching in the starting rotation.
I love how it would’ve cost the Yankees their top 2 pitching prospects and their starting CF to get Santana…and what did it cost the Mets.
Sometimes you got to put your foot down, even if it costs you now. Had to correct the market. The asking price for the Yankees is always higher than for other teams.
Let’s say that they brought Torre back this year. Is there any doubt that with the pitching staff they had that EVEN IF they did get back to the playoffs, they would have been a 1st round KO again? That’s just spinning your wheels.
As great as Joe was, as his pitching staffs got progressively worse starting in 2004, his shortcomings as a manager cost them. The players had gotten to comfortable with him and it was obvious to anyone not married to this situation that they needed a change.
I think that Joe G is the guy for that job. He had his problems this year, but he is a young manager and he had some things to improve on himself in how he managed the players (e.g. Cano) how he managed the media (as Pete says, he finally got how to deal with the press later in the year) and the way he managed the bullpen was a huge asset to the team.
This was bound to happen eventually. The organization obviously didnt plan for it to, but it did. How they react to it will tell a lot about the future of the franchise in the next decade.
And understand this part pretty closely:
Signing Mark Texiera (sp) or CC Sabbathia or A.J. Burnett or guys like that will show that they haven’t learned from their mistakes.
Tex ain’t worth 20+ mil per to the Yankees.
A.J. Burnett and Ben Sheets are injury prone. Hell, Burnett’s numbers against other opponents not named the Yankees are not spectacular in the least.
Finally, no pitcher is worth 7 guaranteed years, much less 150 mill. Pitching is much to prone to injury compared to position players, and that is just not a smart move. I was glad they didn’t give that type of cash to freaking Johan Santana (who isn’t as good as he was 4 years ago) much less CC Sabbathia no matter how many Cincinnati Reds he mows down. (And if you don’t believe that all the innings he has accumulated this year won’t come back to haunt him soon, you are fooling yourself)
The Yankees have to be smart about this offseason because it could sink them for 3 years from now till who knows how long.
On the bright side, I will have the chance to get reacquainted with NL baseball the next month.
Hey, Doc, could you give me a reliable, can’t miss, prescription for Yankee failure? I’m a long time Red Sox fan and love what happened to them this year, but I’m not satisfied. I want this to be long term! So, whadda got?
Here you are my son, right from the mouths of dumb Yankee fans -
“Exactly why I hope Cashman walks and Hank goes insane with spending this offseason.”
Ah, thanks Doc, I just knew you’d come through.
Pete tells us “their best baseball came too late..” Naturally, there was no pressure so performance was not an issue. Next year will be no different unless an evaluation as to who goes, who stays and who comes is made based upon “what’s beneath the numbers” and those who can’t suck it up “Paulie, Scottie, Tino and Bernie style” park their clutchless bodies elsewhere. Unfortunately, the main offender will be with us for another nine years spewing his pervasive negative energy.
More likely than not, very little will be changed as Cashman will be back and being in denial of the obvious, choose not to make the wholesale changes that are indeed necessary to thwart the downward spiral which has lasted much too long. Curiously, if you look back to the end of the dynasty (01), you will see that the collapse has occurred earlier and earlier each succeeding year reaching its zenith of non-performance this year.
From John Heyman
The Steinbrenners prefer Cashman to commit to them before they present him with a new contract for a significant raise
significant raise ????
Are you kidding me, during the Torre negotiations they told him he needs to take a pay cut cuz the team didn’t do as good as before, how is Cashman getting a significant raise that just shows you they really were just trying to make Torre look bad!! Double standard
“The Yankees have to be smart about this offseason because it could sink them for 3 years from now till who knows how long.”
Finally, an intelligent Yankee fan! Mr. Anderson, I salute you, may your tribe increase.
Insofar as to “how much someone is worth” e.g., it has been said “Tex isn’t worth 20 mil”, as a diehard fan, I could care less how much they pay him! It’s not my money, I want to see the best wearing the interlocking NY the cost notwithstanding. The cost is management’s issue…with all the revenue streams and the direct proportion between a successful onfield performance and the intensity of those streams, it may well be sound business practice for the “Yankees” to pay whatever it takes to win knowing full well that the YES advertising revenues, merchandising, outrageous ticket prices etc will increase dramatically with a team that goes all the way, as it has in the past.
Art Vandelay
September 24th, 2008 at 12:40 am
mel has a point. Lupica comes out with pretty much the same article every year. Since 2000, the team has spent $700 billion on players but has gotten nothing.
The only thing that was better about this team than Torre’s teams was that the bullpen was much deeper. You didn’t have a Paul Quantrill or a Scott Proctor pitching until their arms fell off.
Historically, teams that rely on really young starting pitching are .500 teams at best. And this was known before this season started. The real surprise was the hitting. If we knew in March that Robbbie Cano was going to hit only .265, Jorge would be out for most of the season, Jeter playing with a bad hand for most of the year along with Matsui and A-Rod taking DL time, we knew we would be in for a long season.
On average we scored 1 plus run a game less than we did last year. That makes a big difference across 162 games.
_____________________________________________________
come on…Quantrill? Quantrill was overused and washed up before he ever got to NY and for the Yankees, Proctor had a 3.57 ERA for his last year and a half as a Yankee. LA rode him harder during his last 2 months last year, getting him up 3-4 a game before maybe using him. Who’s next…the abuse of Tanyon Sturtze?
So that’s that. It’s over.
It’s not like this is a surprise to any of us. We were hoping, we were dreaming that the Yanks would win out and the Sox would lose out. I don’t see a reason why we can’t do exactly like Derek Jeter and Girardi talked about, win it for pride.
That’s what the Yankees will do. When it comes down to it, there are positives from this season that we can reflect on. First, the Yankees farm system shined this year. Multiple division and league championships. Sure, not all these guys will be in New York and make a difference, but it proves the Yankees system knows something about teamwork.
Isn’t that what’s been really missing in New York. A real team feeling. It’s felt exactly like what it’s been, a collection of players who get paid a ton.
It’s been slowly changing and this off-season, it could change more. There will be new names, but there will be many familiar ones from that same farm system.
When you break it down, the Yankees aren’t exactly in the easiest division in the league. With all the money in the world, you can’t buy a championship.
I knew, as most of us did, over a month ago that the Yankees weren’t making the playoffs.
But as far as I’m concerned, that isn’t that until Mussina makes (and wins – please baseball gods!) his last start of the season. Didn’t get to see the postgame tonight and am extremely worried about his elbow, Pete please update us if/when you hear anything.
Insofar as to “how much someone is worth†e.g., it has been said “Tex isn’t worth 20 milâ€, as a diehard fan, I could care less how much they pay him! It’s not my money, I want to see the best wearing the interlocking NY the cost notwithstanding. The cost is management’s issue…with all the revenue streams and the direct proportion between a successful onfield performance and the intensity of those streams, it may well be sound business practice for the “Yankees†to pay whatever it takes to win knowing full well that the YES advertising revenues, merchandising, outrageous ticket prices etc will increase dramatically with a team that goes all the way, as it has in the past.
Ever since the Yankees bloated their payroll they have been on a slow, steady decline. Does that not mean anything to you? You can have all the money and resources in the world. If you don’t spend it wisely and prudently, you are not going anywhere.
Cashman has made mistakes in free agency and stuff, but understand this: Without him pretty much every good young player the Yankees have would be in someone else’s uniform. Without Cashman, the Yankees would be in much, much worse shape than they are now.
It seemed like too many things just went wrong this year. In addition to the players not performing up to par, we had a manager who was still learning on the job. What Joe Torre brought in 1996 wasn’t just baseball experience but New York managing experience, which we all know isn’t all about on-field strategy. The Cano benching last week (which many of us think should have happened earlier) might have been the moment where the skipper found his voice. Pete, for much of the year, has ripped Giradi’s dealings with the press but Pete seems to think that’s improved.
This year was the Yankee’s version of a rebuilding season. Young pitching. New manager. And just a focus on getting draft picks. It’s likely that Giambi, I-Rod, and maybe Abreu will be let go for compensatory draft picks.
” I want to see the best wearing the interlocking NY the cost notwithstanding. The cost is management’s issue…with all the revenue streams and the direct proportion between a successful onfield performance and the intensity of those streams, it may well be sound business practice for the “Yankees†to pay whatever it takes to win.”
I want to ask you a question, Housecleaner, what was the Yankees payroll this year? That’s right around $200 million. Did we win? Uh, nope. So, what are you saying? Let’s spend even more next year, and we will win! Is that your argument?
Winning baseball is not commensurate with how much money you spend, it’s about a lot of things, mostly good scouting, but money spending isn’t high on the list.
If all it took was spending lots of money on free agents, then the Yankees should have been running away with the Eastern Division, and Tampa Bay should have been occupying the cellar. However, baseball has a funny way of rewarding those teams who do the hard work necessary to build a winning team. Tampa Bay is going to be there for a long long time, because they were patient. Now they have a frighteningly young, aggressive, powerful baseball team that will be hard to beat for years to come.
For the Yankees to dig out of this mess, they are going to have to work hard, do what’s necessary to get the best scouts, coaches, and players through the draft and through trades. Taking the easy way through free agent signings got us into this mess, doing more of the same is just insane.
You can blame the injuries all you want, but even still the Yankee line up was better (on paper) than most other complete teams.
Yanks won’t get compensitory picks unless they offer arbitration. Abreu needs to stay, but, Giambi wants to stay also. If he’s offered arbitration, he’ll accept it, and that’s nothing less than 19 million (20% cut is the limit). Ivan Rodriguez is the same thing.
***compensatory***
Buster Olney is one of the few good baseball writers at ESPN and I definitely respect his opinion. That being said, I don’t agree with the major idea of his article. While I do think that the Yankees need to invest more in player development, I don’t think they should do that at the expense of passing on elite free agents.
It almost seems as if Olney wrote the article and then did the research. The bottom of his piece lists the free agents the Yankees signed and the players drafted with the picks they gave up. Only 2 of those picks have contributed on a Major League level at this point: Joe Blanton and Mike Fontenot. The Yankees gave up those players to sign Mike Mussina and Jason Giambi. While Mussina and Giambi haven’t won any rings in NY, it is safe to say that they helped more than Blanton or Fontenot. In other words, Olney’s premise is not supported by the facts.
People have tried to turn it into a black and white argument. Either, focus on young players or sign free agents. The truth is, it will take a mix of both to win. It would be silly for the Yankees to give up their advantage on the free agent market in order to build the farm system. What I’ve learned from the Yankees’ World Series drought is that the Yankees need to be very selective in what free agents they sign. They need to go after elite players that are still have years in their prime and fill a need with the team.
That being said, Mark Teixeira is one of those guys. He’s the best fielding first baseman in the league. He’s a switch hitter with a lot of power that would benefit from the dimensions at Yankee Stadium. He’s only 28 years old with no injury issues at a position that players can be productive at late into their career. Lastly, the Yankees have a huge hole in the field at first base and in their lineup for a power hitter. Signing him isn’t just “spending money” its bringing in an elite player to fill a need.
CC Sabathia is another free agent the Yankees need to take a serious look at. Again, at 28, this is a player in his prime. He’s a proven workhorse and one of the best lefties in the game. He would be an ace on almost any team that he went to, including the Yankees. Losing a draft pick for a proven guy like CC is an easy decision.
I do agree that the Yankees shouldn’t sign guys like Rondell White, Steve Karsay, or guys that are not proven to be top talents. Guys like Mike Mussina, CC Sabathia, and Mark Teixeira are the type of signings that need to be made, along with player development, to get No. 27 next year at the new stadium.
So you sign both Giambi and Abreu with the understanding that they will be traded. So you eat part of their salary. Otherwise you get draft picks that might contribute 4 years down the road.
This Olney draft pick stuff is utter BS. This team has had phenomenal success over the last 14 years. Had they spent the money on Santana instead of holding on to their beloved kids they would be in the playoffs again.
If Wang doesn’t get hurt, Cano has a semi-bearable season, and Pettitte doesn’t fall off a cliff then the Yankees make the playoffs.
But what is “full responsibility?”
It’s another meaningless and empty platitude from Sunny G.
I’m sad we won’t get to see our beloved Yankees in the post season but I would rather see them not make it then face ANOTHER first round loss.
I think it is good that they are all going through this elimination and hopefully it lights a fire under their butts for next season and that they will remember what it feels like to be eliminated.
I hope Mussina can get his 20 wins and the Yankees can end on a positive note.
I prayed that they would win on Sunday when they closed the season and I said it wouldn’t matter to me if they lost every game for the rest of the season, so I am not going to cry about this. They are playing really good ball right now and hopefully that continues.
Pepitone, Buster’s criticisms would be on the mark if the current regime were doing things the same old-same old as when George was running things. Since Brian took control, clearly things have changed and we are starting to see the results from the farm system (though we’ll have to wait a few more years for the position players to make an impact). No, IMO, Buster is a day late and a dollar short on his bashing of the “old” Yankees way of doing things. He’s utterly clueless if he doesn’t understand that Brian has helped change the mentality of the organization. He’s also clueless and completely unfair if he thinks the kids Brian drafted should be up here and producing right now. 3 years is not a long time in the development of a baseball player, so I don’t know what he’s talking about.
Their player development philosophy and implementation is of dubious merit. Given that it takes 3 good years of progression through A to AAA levels, at least, to “be ready”, does it really make sense to use a #1 pick and expend millions on a pitching “prospect” who requires Tommy John surgery from the getgo? Thus, the three, realistically, becomes five. We are not talking about Lincecum, or even Price.
I seriously question the wisdom of Cashman and his player development personnel in not only this situation, but across
the board, given the results, to date, and what appears to be on the table in the immediate future. The only farmhand who seems to “have it” is Austin, and that’s for “10″ at the earliest. The organizational structure and leadership indeed requires a fresh look and a probable overhaul. Hopefully, it will be sooner than later.
I for one want to say Thanks for a great run!!! I have been a fan since the EARLY 70′s.
To put it all in perspective:
When the Yankees got back to the playoffs after the terrible 80′s I was a new Dad feeding my 4 month old son while watching the Yankees in the playoffs for the first time in a decade. Yesterday he asked me for the keys to my car. For the first time in his life there will be no Yankee baseball in October. But he has seen some tremendious playoff games and 4 World Series Championships!!!! How many 15 year old baseball fans can say that about thier favorite team (looking at you Brave fan).
So Thank You and let’s start a new run in 2009!!!!!